March 17, 2010 • 25 mins
Molly and Cristen discuss what studies suggest about body language and initial attraction (and even test out some of the behaviors themselves) in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you?
From House top Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen, I'm Molly. So Molly, you know
(00:21):
you and I both enjoy the tabloid magazine every now
and then, I think I think that's safe to admit. Yeah,
we've read a lot of we read a lot of
research and very books, credible information, and every now and then,
you know, we just need a little little brain relief
in the form of tabloids. And I think one of
(00:43):
our favorite parts of tabloids, if I may speak for you, Molly,
the celebrity photo analysis of the body language body language analysis. Yes,
this couple really in love? Or are they headed for Splitsville? Right?
Justin Timber Like Jessica Bill sitting at the Nicks game.
He's turned away, she's looking forward. Doesn't look very good.
(01:05):
I know. I love that because I feel like it
is just I mean, it's there. They are random photographs
taken you know, to random moment in time. Uh, and
so I think they're total bunk. I like to believe
in them. Yeah, you put full stock in that. Well,
you know that they always make a really good case
for them not really being in sync. Not that that
(01:26):
wasn't even a one for Justin timber Lake, but you know,
that's that's what they always come that's the conclusion, that's
the worst conclusion a celebrity couple could hear in their
photo analysis is they are not in sync. They shall
not last. Yeah, they need some synchronization. Um. So we
decided to do a little bit of research on body
language to find out if there really is anything to
(01:48):
all of this, if our if our bodies really do
communicate what's going on in our hearts and minds. And
the first thing that I ran across was a recent
article in New York Time m spinad Lang here about
a field of study, pretty robust field of study now
called embodied cognition, which is basically the concept that your
(02:11):
brain we we communicate what's going on in our brain
and how we process language through physical movement. Like there
was a study that was published in Psychological Science that
uh found that when participants were thinking about the past,
reflecting on the past, they would lean slightly backward, whereas
(02:31):
when they were asked to project on the future their
movement would go forward. And that article was full of
examples of ways that your body just is affecting your
thought process and and vice versa, like I liked the
one the example from this article about students who are
holding a warm beverage as students that were holding a
cold beverage, and all the students were asked to evaluate
(02:54):
whether the people they were seeing this hypothetical person had
a warm personality or was you know, kind of stand offish,
and the beverages they held corresponded with their opinion of
the person. So if they were holding, like, you know,
a cup of coffee, they're like, oh, this person seems
nice enough, warm hearted. Yeah, I get to know them.
And similarly than a related study, the participants were asked
(03:17):
to hold a heavier object and a lighter object, and
when they were holding the heavier object, they tended to
give more weight or importance to whatever person or thing
they were asked to judge. So it seems like, if
you know you're not taking your job seriously enough, you
just need a heavier bag to carry around, because then
I'll be like, wow, I'm really being weighed down. Or
(03:38):
maybe just ask next time you're in the elevator with
your boss, ask if he can't hold your bag for
a little while, and then ask for of you, and
then they'll be like, Wow, this person is important. Yeah,
maybe I should do that anyway. But I think that
that's what that article illustrated is all these ways we're
not even thinking about we're being subtly influenced by things
that our body is doing. So in the early twin
(04:00):
a century, a guy named Rudolph Laban sort of took
this idea of the connection between the brain and the
body and put it in the reverse of what we're
talking about, and decided to look at and analyze body
movement to then interpret what was going on in our
minds and also how that what that communicated about our personalities.
(04:22):
And so he developed these things called Laban movement analyzes,
which he basically described people's movements based on two categories
of space, harmony, and effort. And there's no need to
really like go into the specifics of what it is
um if only to say that, uh, he just looked
(04:43):
at how people's bodies, like we move our bodies intentionally
through through space. And the example that kind of made
sense to me was one from the last presidential campaign
where if candidate leaned on a podium, it really showed
that they were taking up space relation to the podium.
That would be like the space harmony part and showing
like I need the support of this podium, cry for support,
(05:05):
which makes sense for presidential candidate to say I need
your support. That's time leaning on this podium, right. And
then you know, for another example, they were talking about
Hillary Clinton and they was saying that she makes good
forming or shaping motions when her body would mold a
space as if wrapping itself around an object, and in
that way she kind of shows her assertion, you know,
(05:28):
because probably, as you know, the female candidates, she needed
to show a little more assertive behavior when she was
standing up next to you men. So you need five
hours of training to become a laban certified movement analyst.
But really, I think that a lot of body language
is is pretty self explanatory and obvious. It's really intuitive,
(05:50):
and I think the most basic example is something that
my mom always did tell me is in a job
interview to always go in and have a nice, firm handshake.
But what was interesting to me is we were looking
at some body language basics from web m D. And
it's not so much the grip and the strength of
your your shake. It's all about palm to palm. Yeah,
(06:12):
evidently the making the palm to palm contact is even
more significant than your grip because it expresses an intention
of honesty and openness because you're making that physical contact.
So the limp handshake, it's not so much a matter
of you know, not shaking vigorously enough. It's just you
probably haven't gotten the hand to hand contact. That's what's
really important. Yeah, you don't want to make you don't
(06:33):
want to create that distance. No, I want to Sam,
I'm here and I'm open. I'm here. I will do
that work for the right amount of money, exactly. And
when you're making those kind of demands, why one thing,
you know, in this job interview setting, which is a
great example of when body language is really important, eye contact.
It's all about eye contact. You don't want to be
have some kind of death stare on whoever is interviewing you,
(06:54):
because then that just gets uncomfortable. But you definitely want
to maintain eye contact like I'm doing with you right now.
I know, I wish this was a time when you
guys could see us in this studo because we're kind
of having a stair down. Kristen's eye contact is I
just broke it because I was getting uncomfortable. I'm therefore
the more assertive and dominant. Oh, there's so many things
I could say right there. Um, let's talk about another thing,
(07:17):
mirror ring image, mirroring images, Like right now, I kind
of have my head tilted to the side. I'm kind
of hoping Krystal will do it too, because it will
show that we're really you know, I really think yeah,
because we're both leaning on on the table right now.
And a lot of body language experts will say that
mirroring when you can naturally fall into a pattern of
(07:38):
mirroring the person's the other person's movements, it's a sign
of you know, rapport, which is one of those big
things you'll hear about in those tabloid photo spreads who
were talking about earlier. You know, if the if the
celebrities happened to be walking together and one of them
stepping forward with the right foot and I'm stepping forward
with the left foot, woe one to you, celebrity couple
(07:59):
should be you walking in sync? People, I hope you
have decided who was keeping all the jewelry and bling.
Because you are not, you shall not last. But Molly,
you're talking about established couples, true, who may or may
not be out of step literally or metaphorically. But before
that even happens, body language plays, I would say, a
(08:24):
far more important role with initial attraction. So shifting gears here.
So let's back up to those days of first dates,
first glances, perhaps even the initial meeting. What can you
tell about a fella or a lady when you're in
the bar looking to meet some people? Normally, I think
(08:44):
what you're referring to, at least in our situation, our
personal situations, would be something that scientists refer to as
heterosexual relationship initiation processes, or as I have decided to
call it, hup h rip. Yeah, heterosexual relationship initiation process
(09:05):
is just half salutin language for flirtation among obviously heterosexual people, right,
which is who most of the studies have focused on.
So how are we going to start the a trip? Well,
a trip starts with something called the approach. You have
(09:26):
to obviously, someone has to approach the other person in
order to get the ball rolling. Now there are numerous
studies on a trip and the body language that is
inherent within them. Yeah, basically what the one thing to
me that the studies agree on, and everything after that
is a little confusing to me, and I may have
been doing everything completely wrong up to this point. They
(09:47):
do agree on the fact that the woman has to
essentially invite the mail over with her eyes. Yes, because
one thing to remember about these about the old h
rip as we're calling it, is that it's all pretty
much nonverbal communication. You know, you don't just call across
the bar like a dude cut a cute guy over here, single,
(10:12):
although it would be kind of nice if that would work.
I mean, there is an argument to be made that
we all need to be a little bit more directly,
a little more assertive. But anyway, Yes, it all starts
with the first nonverbal communication that that you will probably
have with your potential lover is the is the old
eye glance, right? And it all depends on the woman.
And this was something I thought was kind of surprising
(10:34):
from these studies, as there was one by Monica Moore
that was published in the journal Semiotica, and she analyzed
bar conversations between male and female strangers, and she found
that men would only approach a woman in a bar
who he didn't know after the woman had initiated some
(10:56):
kind of glance, like a guy is not going to
kind of see your profile, you know, and you haven't
really noticed him, and he's just gonna pop up like, Hey,
you can't just be like a pretty girl wearing an
interesting shirt and he's gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna
talk to that girl about the shirt. Yeah, you've gotta
you've gotta, you gotta taken into your own hands. Yeah.
And this whole eye contact process has been analyzed and
(11:19):
broken down as well, and it usually comes with something,
at least on the female part usually comes with something
called the head can't yes, which is Christen's new favorite term. Yes,
my new fit. I'm gonna try to bring up headcanting
as much as possible describe a head can't for us.
Full a head can't is basically the slow tilt of
(11:41):
the head which would reveal your soft, sensuous, inviting neck
to a man, accompanied by sidelong glance yes, and usually
a little bit of a smile, not a full on grin,
but just just perhaps a lhint of a smile. Well see,
now this is to me where things start to get confusing,
(12:02):
because one of the studies said that the slow smile
is the best way to bring a man into your layer.
And you know, it can't be like really like big grin.
It's gonna be like this really slow building but not
too slow, because well he just gave me quite a head, can't. Okay,
(12:23):
were some crazy crazy That's the thing. Well, we have
to remember this is we're talking about a glance here.
If you if your smile is deoper long, that means
you're staring, and that means you're creepy. That's it's such
a fine line. It is such a fine line. And
but I think I think that we have a little
some timeline guid's just to show how how brief these
(12:43):
smiles are. In one study that I ran across as
a study from two thousand seven, the long onset smile
moll of the're referring to only last about half a
second for you to form this smile, so not that
as your cat grin that you're unfurling right now, doing
(13:04):
my best. I wish you guys could see this. It's great. Oh,
this is probably why I'm in the bar trying to
pick up guys working for me. But apparently it's a
universal language because they went to Africa and saw the
same smiles and headcants. Yeah, women in African tribes were
doing the same thing, same kind of headcants towards towards
(13:24):
men that they were attracted to. And in fact, they've
done studies where they've had both men and women watch
videos of that initial glance and meeting, and both men
and women are equally good at telling whether the relationship
is going to last or go somewhere if they're into
each other, basically um by watching the video. So it
is it is the universal language. But once, once the
(13:47):
head can is over, because this is a very brief,
this is a fleeting moment that we're talking about. After that,
things start to get a little more complicated because let's
say that everything has gone well. You have headcanted in
a very alloreng way, and he has worked up the
guts are possibly the liquid courage too, you know, amble
over to your table, accept your eyes, invotaous, say hello
(14:11):
to this hat. And then the body language gets a
little trickier because, according to these studies, men can be
very deceptive with their body language. Yes, men overall will
display more obvious body language in terms of attraction, will
show more more obvious signs that that he's he's digging
(14:31):
on you. But you can also be more deceptive. And
women tend to mask their outward signs of attraction initially because,
according to evolutionary psychology, there's more at risk for us.
We don't want to just jump in because if we
just jump in too fast, we might have, you know,
(14:52):
brought home some guy who's just gonna up and leave
the next day. Let's guys are creepy, yes, some of them,
and dangerous. Um. In fact, that study I was talking about,
where they watched the video tapes, they really couldn't tell
if the female is interested until the last half of
the tape. If they're watching let's say ten minutes of
a male and a female interacting, they would say that
(15:12):
the woman only started to really show this kind of
body language minutes like five through ten, the last half
the conversation. Um. And women really kind of do get
the short in the sick because they smile more often
already in conversations. So one study said that men are
more likely to think that you know, women are just
superficial and there their signs during that initial meet and
(15:33):
greed are too confusing and can't tell if they're into you. Yeah,
because we might see more outwardly friendly, but in our
heads were like I'm not gonna call you, I don't
like you, go away sor But Molly, perhaps since we
we have that window, that kind of ambiguous window as
women when we're sort of evaluating in our head. Yeah,
we're quickly evaluating in our head, which I think a
(15:55):
lot of it is got unconscious anyway. But maybe that's
where the men kind of jump in and might be
a little more deceptive in that window to kind of
market themselves a little more aggressively, to break through our
our walls, break down our walls. Do you have an example, Well, Molly,
I have a study which is as good or better
(16:16):
than a example, and this is from this is an
older study from the Netherlands and they found that and
I guess this is sort of deception on both ends
and presenting themselves. Men will emphasize more traditionally female valued traits,
whereas women on the flip side tend to um if
(16:39):
they're into the guy, will uh emphasize they're more male
valued characteristics. So maybe we're both tricking each other, but
that might be after that might come after the you know,
after that window, once the woman has decided that she
is going to headcant her way into his heart. Well,
I think it's interesting. I think that male dominated behavior.
Let's take the concept dominance, because that came up in
(17:02):
a lot of these studies you read, and one study
called the Courtship Dance, UH talked about how they're that
men don't necessarily like the dominant female, but they will
allow her to be dominant in order to get her interests.
So maybe it is what you're talking about with that deception,
like you kind of back off your your dominant male role, right,
(17:24):
because studies have also shown that men who are interested
will keep their body in an open position, you know,
a vulnerable position, saying hey, I'm inviting, I'm I'm caring.
Yeah I'm not, I'm not going to be dominant. But
then on the first date, if a man is really
attracted to this woman and wants it to go somewhere,
(17:46):
he's probably going to dominate the conversation. Chances are he's
going to lead the conversation. So he reasserts himself. The
dominance comes back. Web MD says that women should just
make eye contact and listen. Thank you, web m D
those little nuggets. So if you're making I don't know,
it seems like such weird dating advice to give. But
if you're making too much conversation on the first date, ladies,
(18:10):
maybe he's not that interested. Maybe he's just not that
into you. Oh but see that's where it gets confusing.
Some of these things are very contradictory, are very contradictory.
But I think that we can it can't boil down
to to some things. It all starts with the eye
contact you make women the time. Women may initiate that,
(18:32):
initiate that gaze. He picks it up, comes over, slow,
smile a little little head, can't. He likes he likes
what you're tossing. So he comes over, makes the contact,
you know, open positions, open body. If he's open body,
Uh that if his hand points to his stomach, is
(18:52):
that it, Kristen. Yeah, Usually he will um, he will
position his arms to draw your attention to his lower
abb men row okay, okay, And then it's up to
the woman to lead this process. Coming back to synchronization, Yeah,
(19:13):
so then the goal, according to some theorists of the
a trip is basically that your bodies will look like
mirror images. But what some of these days have said
is that is actually not true. It's not the ultimate goal. Yeah,
you're not necessarily going to fall exactly. If you're sitting
there with beers, you're gonna be lifting the beers up
to your lips at the same time. I mean, it's
(19:33):
not creepy and robotic like that, but it does seem
like women will, I guess, initiate the synchronization process and
men will kind of have to mirror whatever they're doing,
kind of take their cues if you will. What this
means for my main interest, which is of course celebrities,
(19:54):
is if they do take a photo of a person
at a random time and they aren't completely in sync,
it does not mean that love has disappeared from the relationship,
right because going back to the courtship dance study which
you mentioned, uh, the introduction points out that one study
showed that people perceive others is more similar to them
(20:16):
when their behaviors are congruent. And obviously you can't you
can't take a picture of, you know, their inner behaviors UM,
and people who teach you as you and people who
show similar postures are judged to have a higher rapport.
So maybe it's not so much about you know, these
like mirroring movements, but comparing comparing their postures. You know,
(20:41):
how are you when you're when you're facing each other,
it's one person sitting up straight in the more dominant
posture and the other person's slumping back disinterest, disinterested. So
there are ways that we can lean our body towards
each other that does indicate attraction and interest. And I,
for one, plan to master the art of the head.
(21:02):
Can't as soon as possible. I'm just gonna start slowly
with the slow smile. That's nice. That's not good. She
just had a good head. Can't she made a head?
Can't into a head? Can if you will like, well,
I think that we have possibly thoroughly confused everyone with
the very complicated language of UM. But it's it's cool
(21:26):
stuff to look at there because there have been all
these studies done and they found him. It's a cross
species sign of attraction that all animals will exhibit. And
I will say it's been interesting to read these studies
where they try and break down something as simple as
a glance into this very complicated process. So I mean,
and that goes back to the original Nalie Angier arc
(21:47):
we were talking about. It's just how things were not
even conscious of are influencing us. Yeah, and I also
say to take heart women. It might it might seem
like the guys have all the power in the stating situation,
but just remember so many percent of the time sees
him over. So there you go. It sounds good. Take
it or leave it. Let's move on to listener mail. Okay,
(22:13):
I have one here from TiO in California, and he says,
I thought i'd pass along a bit of interesting news
regarding comics and graphic novels. Marvel Comics is releasing a
three issue anthology series called Girl Comics, which is written, drawn,
inch colored, edited, and completely done by only female creators
within the industry. The first issue ships on March three,
(22:37):
which was actually yesterday, so March start is probably long gone.
Do you listeners out there? And it might be a
good way for people who have been curious to experience
some fun comics made only by girls in an industry
that's mostly male dominated. So I thought I would try
to spread the word because these there are talented ladies
out there making great comics and graphic novels, and hopefully
help people understand that there are girls who love the
(22:57):
medium just as much as any boy does. And also
if you get a shout out to my girlfriend Katie Graves,
that would be awesome. So Katie Graves, here's to you.
All right. I've got an email from Diana who um
and actually a few other listeners have written in about
this as well, But I just happen to have Diana's
email in front of me, and this is a relation
(23:19):
to some listener mail. We we read about um deodorate
and body odor internationally, and so Dianna rights, body odor
is real. Have you ever spent three hours locked in
a classmate preteens after gym class? There are plenty who
have not been introduced to deodorate, and I can tell
you that the smell is something to be feared, just
as Gatting middle school junior high teacher they'll tell you.
But race plays a part as well. I spent two
(23:41):
years in a large school that was taught predominantly by Koreans,
and I can tell you that, in addition to growing
less body hair. They also have less glands president in
their body that cause body odor. One of my teachers
actually discussed this with me at length, as she neither
has to shave her legs or armpits, but also for
a go deodor altogether. Her insistence that this was based
on her race led me to dig around online and
what I found is this Asians have the smallest of
(24:03):
apocorn glance, which are what caused body it, or an
approximately of them don't have any of these glands at all.
Caucasians and Hispanics have a middling size, and African Africans
and African Americans have the largest size of these glands,
which can cause a stronger snow. So that just clarifies
a bit uh email we got about race and deal writch. Well, guys,
thanks for writing in and if you would like to
(24:26):
send us your thoughts, shoot us an email at moms
Stuff at how stuff works dot com. And during the
week you should check out our blog. It's called how
to Stuff and you can find it and other articles
written by yours truly and the lovely Molly Edmunds on
how stuff works dot com for more on this and
(24:52):
thousands of other topics because at how stuff Works dot Com.
Want more how stuff works, check out our blogs on
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by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are
you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you?
From House top Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen, I'm Molly. So Molly, you know
(00:21):
you and I both enjoy the tabloid magazine every now
and then, I think I think that's safe to admit. Yeah,
we've read a lot of we read a lot of
research and very books, credible information, and every now and then,
you know, we just need a little little brain relief
in the form of tabloids. And I think one of
(00:43):
our favorite parts of tabloids, if I may speak for you, Molly,
the celebrity photo analysis of the body language body language analysis. Yes,
this couple really in love? Or are they headed for Splitsville? Right?
Justin Timber Like Jessica Bill sitting at the Nicks game.
He's turned away, she's looking forward. Doesn't look very good.
(01:05):
I know. I love that because I feel like it
is just I mean, it's there. They are random photographs
taken you know, to random moment in time. Uh, and
so I think they're total bunk. I like to believe
in them. Yeah, you put full stock in that. Well,
you know that they always make a really good case
for them not really being in sync. Not that that
(01:26):
wasn't even a one for Justin timber Lake, but you know,
that's that's what they always come that's the conclusion, that's
the worst conclusion a celebrity couple could hear in their
photo analysis is they are not in sync. They shall
not last. Yeah, they need some synchronization. Um. So we
decided to do a little bit of research on body
language to find out if there really is anything to
(01:48):
all of this, if our if our bodies really do
communicate what's going on in our hearts and minds. And
the first thing that I ran across was a recent
article in New York Time m spinad Lang here about
a field of study, pretty robust field of study now
called embodied cognition, which is basically the concept that your
(02:11):
brain we we communicate what's going on in our brain
and how we process language through physical movement. Like there
was a study that was published in Psychological Science that
uh found that when participants were thinking about the past,
reflecting on the past, they would lean slightly backward, whereas
(02:31):
when they were asked to project on the future their
movement would go forward. And that article was full of
examples of ways that your body just is affecting your
thought process and and vice versa, like I liked the
one the example from this article about students who are
holding a warm beverage as students that were holding a
cold beverage, and all the students were asked to evaluate
(02:54):
whether the people they were seeing this hypothetical person had
a warm personality or was you know, kind of stand offish,
and the beverages they held corresponded with their opinion of
the person. So if they were holding, like, you know,
a cup of coffee, they're like, oh, this person seems
nice enough, warm hearted. Yeah, I get to know them.
And similarly than a related study, the participants were asked
(03:17):
to hold a heavier object and a lighter object, and
when they were holding the heavier object, they tended to
give more weight or importance to whatever person or thing
they were asked to judge. So it seems like, if
you know you're not taking your job seriously enough, you
just need a heavier bag to carry around, because then
I'll be like, wow, I'm really being weighed down. Or
(03:38):
maybe just ask next time you're in the elevator with
your boss, ask if he can't hold your bag for
a little while, and then ask for of you, and
then they'll be like, Wow, this person is important. Yeah,
maybe I should do that anyway. But I think that
that's what that article illustrated is all these ways we're
not even thinking about we're being subtly influenced by things
that our body is doing. So in the early twin
(04:00):
a century, a guy named Rudolph Laban sort of took
this idea of the connection between the brain and the
body and put it in the reverse of what we're
talking about, and decided to look at and analyze body
movement to then interpret what was going on in our
minds and also how that what that communicated about our personalities.
(04:22):
And so he developed these things called Laban movement analyzes,
which he basically described people's movements based on two categories
of space, harmony, and effort. And there's no need to
really like go into the specifics of what it is
um if only to say that, uh, he just looked
(04:43):
at how people's bodies, like we move our bodies intentionally
through through space. And the example that kind of made
sense to me was one from the last presidential campaign
where if candidate leaned on a podium, it really showed
that they were taking up space relation to the podium.
That would be like the space harmony part and showing
like I need the support of this podium, cry for support,
(05:05):
which makes sense for presidential candidate to say I need
your support. That's time leaning on this podium, right. And
then you know, for another example, they were talking about
Hillary Clinton and they was saying that she makes good
forming or shaping motions when her body would mold a
space as if wrapping itself around an object, and in
that way she kind of shows her assertion, you know,
(05:28):
because probably, as you know, the female candidates, she needed
to show a little more assertive behavior when she was
standing up next to you men. So you need five
hours of training to become a laban certified movement analyst.
But really, I think that a lot of body language
is is pretty self explanatory and obvious. It's really intuitive,
(05:50):
and I think the most basic example is something that
my mom always did tell me is in a job
interview to always go in and have a nice, firm handshake.
But what was interesting to me is we were looking
at some body language basics from web m D. And
it's not so much the grip and the strength of
your your shake. It's all about palm to palm. Yeah,
(06:12):
evidently the making the palm to palm contact is even
more significant than your grip because it expresses an intention
of honesty and openness because you're making that physical contact.
So the limp handshake, it's not so much a matter
of you know, not shaking vigorously enough. It's just you
probably haven't gotten the hand to hand contact. That's what's
really important. Yeah, you don't want to make you don't
(06:33):
want to create that distance. No, I want to Sam,
I'm here and I'm open. I'm here. I will do
that work for the right amount of money, exactly. And
when you're making those kind of demands, why one thing,
you know, in this job interview setting, which is a
great example of when body language is really important, eye contact.
It's all about eye contact. You don't want to be
have some kind of death stare on whoever is interviewing you,
(06:54):
because then that just gets uncomfortable. But you definitely want
to maintain eye contact like I'm doing with you right now.
I know, I wish this was a time when you
guys could see us in this studo because we're kind
of having a stair down. Kristen's eye contact is I
just broke it because I was getting uncomfortable. I'm therefore
the more assertive and dominant. Oh, there's so many things
I could say right there. Um, let's talk about another thing,
(07:17):
mirror ring image, mirroring images, Like right now, I kind
of have my head tilted to the side. I'm kind
of hoping Krystal will do it too, because it will
show that we're really you know, I really think yeah,
because we're both leaning on on the table right now.
And a lot of body language experts will say that
mirroring when you can naturally fall into a pattern of
(07:38):
mirroring the person's the other person's movements, it's a sign
of you know, rapport, which is one of those big
things you'll hear about in those tabloid photo spreads who
were talking about earlier. You know, if the if the
celebrities happened to be walking together and one of them
stepping forward with the right foot and I'm stepping forward
with the left foot, woe one to you, celebrity couple
(07:59):
should be you walking in sync? People, I hope you
have decided who was keeping all the jewelry and bling.
Because you are not, you shall not last. But Molly,
you're talking about established couples, true, who may or may
not be out of step literally or metaphorically. But before
that even happens, body language plays, I would say, a
(08:24):
far more important role with initial attraction. So shifting gears here.
So let's back up to those days of first dates,
first glances, perhaps even the initial meeting. What can you
tell about a fella or a lady when you're in
the bar looking to meet some people? Normally, I think
(08:44):
what you're referring to, at least in our situation, our
personal situations, would be something that scientists refer to as
heterosexual relationship initiation processes, or as I have decided to
call it, hup h rip. Yeah, heterosexual relationship initiation process
(09:05):
is just half salutin language for flirtation among obviously heterosexual people, right,
which is who most of the studies have focused on.
So how are we going to start the a trip? Well,
a trip starts with something called the approach. You have
(09:26):
to obviously, someone has to approach the other person in
order to get the ball rolling. Now there are numerous
studies on a trip and the body language that is
inherent within them. Yeah, basically what the one thing to
me that the studies agree on, and everything after that
is a little confusing to me, and I may have
been doing everything completely wrong up to this point. They
(09:47):
do agree on the fact that the woman has to
essentially invite the mail over with her eyes. Yes, because
one thing to remember about these about the old h
rip as we're calling it, is that it's all pretty
much nonverbal communication. You know, you don't just call across
the bar like a dude cut a cute guy over here, single,
(10:12):
although it would be kind of nice if that would work.
I mean, there is an argument to be made that
we all need to be a little bit more directly,
a little more assertive. But anyway, Yes, it all starts
with the first nonverbal communication that that you will probably
have with your potential lover is the is the old
eye glance, right? And it all depends on the woman.
And this was something I thought was kind of surprising
(10:34):
from these studies, as there was one by Monica Moore
that was published in the journal Semiotica, and she analyzed
bar conversations between male and female strangers, and she found
that men would only approach a woman in a bar
who he didn't know after the woman had initiated some
(10:56):
kind of glance, like a guy is not going to
kind of see your profile, you know, and you haven't
really noticed him, and he's just gonna pop up like, Hey,
you can't just be like a pretty girl wearing an
interesting shirt and he's gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna
talk to that girl about the shirt. Yeah, you've gotta
you've gotta, you gotta taken into your own hands. Yeah.
And this whole eye contact process has been analyzed and
(11:19):
broken down as well, and it usually comes with something,
at least on the female part usually comes with something
called the head can't yes, which is Christen's new favorite term. Yes,
my new fit. I'm gonna try to bring up headcanting
as much as possible describe a head can't for us.
Full a head can't is basically the slow tilt of
(11:41):
the head which would reveal your soft, sensuous, inviting neck
to a man, accompanied by sidelong glance yes, and usually
a little bit of a smile, not a full on grin,
but just just perhaps a lhint of a smile. Well see,
now this is to me where things start to get confusing,
(12:02):
because one of the studies said that the slow smile
is the best way to bring a man into your layer.
And you know, it can't be like really like big grin.
It's gonna be like this really slow building but not
too slow, because well he just gave me quite a head, can't. Okay,
(12:23):
were some crazy crazy That's the thing. Well, we have
to remember this is we're talking about a glance here.
If you if your smile is deoper long, that means
you're staring, and that means you're creepy. That's it's such
a fine line. It is such a fine line. And
but I think I think that we have a little
some timeline guid's just to show how how brief these
(12:43):
smiles are. In one study that I ran across as
a study from two thousand seven, the long onset smile
moll of the're referring to only last about half a
second for you to form this smile, so not that
as your cat grin that you're unfurling right now, doing
(13:04):
my best. I wish you guys could see this. It's great. Oh,
this is probably why I'm in the bar trying to
pick up guys working for me. But apparently it's a
universal language because they went to Africa and saw the
same smiles and headcants. Yeah, women in African tribes were
doing the same thing, same kind of headcants towards towards
(13:24):
men that they were attracted to. And in fact, they've
done studies where they've had both men and women watch
videos of that initial glance and meeting, and both men
and women are equally good at telling whether the relationship
is going to last or go somewhere if they're into
each other, basically um by watching the video. So it
is it is the universal language. But once, once the
(13:47):
head can is over, because this is a very brief,
this is a fleeting moment that we're talking about. After that,
things start to get a little more complicated because let's
say that everything has gone well. You have headcanted in
a very alloreng way, and he has worked up the
guts are possibly the liquid courage too, you know, amble
over to your table, accept your eyes, invotaous, say hello
(14:11):
to this hat. And then the body language gets a
little trickier because, according to these studies, men can be
very deceptive with their body language. Yes, men overall will
display more obvious body language in terms of attraction, will
show more more obvious signs that that he's he's digging
(14:31):
on you. But you can also be more deceptive. And
women tend to mask their outward signs of attraction initially because,
according to evolutionary psychology, there's more at risk for us.
We don't want to just jump in because if we
just jump in too fast, we might have, you know,
(14:52):
brought home some guy who's just gonna up and leave
the next day. Let's guys are creepy, yes, some of them,
and dangerous. Um. In fact, that study I was talking about,
where they watched the video tapes, they really couldn't tell
if the female is interested until the last half of
the tape. If they're watching let's say ten minutes of
a male and a female interacting, they would say that
(15:12):
the woman only started to really show this kind of
body language minutes like five through ten, the last half
the conversation. Um. And women really kind of do get
the short in the sick because they smile more often
already in conversations. So one study said that men are
more likely to think that you know, women are just
superficial and there their signs during that initial meet and
(15:33):
greed are too confusing and can't tell if they're into you. Yeah,
because we might see more outwardly friendly, but in our
heads were like I'm not gonna call you, I don't
like you, go away sor But Molly, perhaps since we
we have that window, that kind of ambiguous window as
women when we're sort of evaluating in our head. Yeah,
we're quickly evaluating in our head, which I think a
(15:55):
lot of it is got unconscious anyway. But maybe that's
where the men kind of jump in and might be
a little more deceptive in that window to kind of
market themselves a little more aggressively, to break through our
our walls, break down our walls. Do you have an example, Well, Molly,
I have a study which is as good or better
(16:16):
than a example, and this is from this is an
older study from the Netherlands and they found that and
I guess this is sort of deception on both ends
and presenting themselves. Men will emphasize more traditionally female valued traits,
whereas women on the flip side tend to um if
(16:39):
they're into the guy, will uh emphasize they're more male
valued characteristics. So maybe we're both tricking each other, but
that might be after that might come after the you know,
after that window, once the woman has decided that she
is going to headcant her way into his heart. Well,
I think it's interesting. I think that male dominated behavior.
Let's take the concept dominance, because that came up in
(17:02):
a lot of these studies you read, and one study
called the Courtship Dance, UH talked about how they're that
men don't necessarily like the dominant female, but they will
allow her to be dominant in order to get her interests.
So maybe it is what you're talking about with that deception,
like you kind of back off your your dominant male role, right,
(17:24):
because studies have also shown that men who are interested
will keep their body in an open position, you know,
a vulnerable position, saying hey, I'm inviting, I'm I'm caring.
Yeah I'm not, I'm not going to be dominant. But
then on the first date, if a man is really
attracted to this woman and wants it to go somewhere,
(17:46):
he's probably going to dominate the conversation. Chances are he's
going to lead the conversation. So he reasserts himself. The
dominance comes back. Web MD says that women should just
make eye contact and listen. Thank you, web m D
those little nuggets. So if you're making I don't know,
it seems like such weird dating advice to give. But
if you're making too much conversation on the first date, ladies,
(18:10):
maybe he's not that interested. Maybe he's just not that
into you. Oh but see that's where it gets confusing.
Some of these things are very contradictory, are very contradictory.
But I think that we can it can't boil down
to to some things. It all starts with the eye
contact you make women the time. Women may initiate that,
(18:32):
initiate that gaze. He picks it up, comes over, slow,
smile a little little head, can't. He likes he likes
what you're tossing. So he comes over, makes the contact,
you know, open positions, open body. If he's open body,
Uh that if his hand points to his stomach, is
(18:52):
that it, Kristen. Yeah, Usually he will um, he will
position his arms to draw your attention to his lower
abb men row okay, okay, And then it's up to
the woman to lead this process. Coming back to synchronization, Yeah,
(19:13):
so then the goal, according to some theorists of the
a trip is basically that your bodies will look like
mirror images. But what some of these days have said
is that is actually not true. It's not the ultimate goal. Yeah,
you're not necessarily going to fall exactly. If you're sitting
there with beers, you're gonna be lifting the beers up
to your lips at the same time. I mean, it's
(19:33):
not creepy and robotic like that, but it does seem
like women will, I guess, initiate the synchronization process and
men will kind of have to mirror whatever they're doing,
kind of take their cues if you will. What this
means for my main interest, which is of course celebrities,
(19:54):
is if they do take a photo of a person
at a random time and they aren't completely in sync,
it does not mean that love has disappeared from the relationship,
right because going back to the courtship dance study which
you mentioned, uh, the introduction points out that one study
showed that people perceive others is more similar to them
(20:16):
when their behaviors are congruent. And obviously you can't you
can't take a picture of, you know, their inner behaviors UM,
and people who teach you as you and people who
show similar postures are judged to have a higher rapport.
So maybe it's not so much about you know, these
like mirroring movements, but comparing comparing their postures. You know,
(20:41):
how are you when you're when you're facing each other,
it's one person sitting up straight in the more dominant
posture and the other person's slumping back disinterest, disinterested. So
there are ways that we can lean our body towards
each other that does indicate attraction and interest. And I,
for one, plan to master the art of the head.
(21:02):
Can't as soon as possible. I'm just gonna start slowly
with the slow smile. That's nice. That's not good. She
just had a good head. Can't she made a head?
Can't into a head? Can if you will like, well,
I think that we have possibly thoroughly confused everyone with
the very complicated language of UM. But it's it's cool
(21:26):
stuff to look at there because there have been all
these studies done and they found him. It's a cross
species sign of attraction that all animals will exhibit. And
I will say it's been interesting to read these studies
where they try and break down something as simple as
a glance into this very complicated process. So I mean,
and that goes back to the original Nalie Angier arc
(21:47):
we were talking about. It's just how things were not
even conscious of are influencing us. Yeah, and I also
say to take heart women. It might it might seem
like the guys have all the power in the stating situation,
but just remember so many percent of the time sees
him over. So there you go. It sounds good. Take
it or leave it. Let's move on to listener mail. Okay,
(22:13):
I have one here from TiO in California, and he says,
I thought i'd pass along a bit of interesting news
regarding comics and graphic novels. Marvel Comics is releasing a
three issue anthology series called Girl Comics, which is written, drawn,
inch colored, edited, and completely done by only female creators
within the industry. The first issue ships on March three,
(22:37):
which was actually yesterday, so March start is probably long gone.
Do you listeners out there? And it might be a
good way for people who have been curious to experience
some fun comics made only by girls in an industry
that's mostly male dominated. So I thought I would try
to spread the word because these there are talented ladies
out there making great comics and graphic novels, and hopefully
help people understand that there are girls who love the
(22:57):
medium just as much as any boy does. And also
if you get a shout out to my girlfriend Katie Graves,
that would be awesome. So Katie Graves, here's to you.
All right. I've got an email from Diana who um
and actually a few other listeners have written in about
this as well, But I just happen to have Diana's
email in front of me, and this is a relation
(23:19):
to some listener mail. We we read about um deodorate
and body odor internationally, and so Dianna rights, body odor
is real. Have you ever spent three hours locked in
a classmate preteens after gym class? There are plenty who
have not been introduced to deodorate, and I can tell
you that the smell is something to be feared, just
as Gatting middle school junior high teacher they'll tell you.
But race plays a part as well. I spent two
(23:41):
years in a large school that was taught predominantly by Koreans,
and I can tell you that, in addition to growing
less body hair. They also have less glands president in
their body that cause body odor. One of my teachers
actually discussed this with me at length, as she neither
has to shave her legs or armpits, but also for
a go deodor altogether. Her insistence that this was based
on her race led me to dig around online and
what I found is this Asians have the smallest of
(24:03):
apocorn glance, which are what caused body it, or an
approximately of them don't have any of these glands at all.
Caucasians and Hispanics have a middling size, and African Africans
and African Americans have the largest size of these glands,
which can cause a stronger snow. So that just clarifies
a bit uh email we got about race and deal writch. Well, guys,
thanks for writing in and if you would like to
(24:26):
send us your thoughts, shoot us an email at moms
Stuff at how stuff works dot com. And during the
week you should check out our blog. It's called how
to Stuff and you can find it and other articles
written by yours truly and the lovely Molly Edmunds on
how stuff works dot com for more on this and
(24:52):
thousands of other topics because at how stuff Works dot Com.
Want more how stuff works, check out our blogs on
the house stuff work dot Com homepage. Brought to you
by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are
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