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October 10, 2012 • 31 mins

How is the NFL courting female (American) football fans? Are female football fans marginalized? How is the NFL targeting football merchandise and marketing for the ladies? Join Caroline and Cristen to learn more.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff
Works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. And since it is football season
here in the United States of America, I'm not talking

(00:23):
about European football football football, ak A soccer, which means
it probably half our listeners just turned the podcast. People
love the old pig skin. Some people do, some people do.
I mean, I think it is established fact that soccer
football is like a ba jillion times more popular than

(00:48):
that's a scientific fact. Yes, a bajillion times more popular
than NFL football. What we're talking about NFL football today
because like I that I'm just gonna repeat myself, it's
football season. And also the week that we are recording this,
NFL fans out there, you have been to hell and

(01:12):
back with some crazy call that was made by some
replacement ref because there was some kind of referee uh
you know, contract things going on, so they had to
call in these like, you know, second string referees and
apparently they were disguise from the street. Yeah, random people.

(01:35):
They pulled in the guys from the popcorn stand and
they made this terrible call. I think the Seahawks were playing.
And this is the way I'm going to tell you
all that I don't watch NFL football. I don't either,
which is why I'm laughing, because I've been toying Kristen's
telling of this story. And if anyone is listening from ESPN,

(01:59):
sure I will. I will be a commentator anytime. I
don't watch NFL football, but I'm not incompetent when it
comes to football. I watch college football. I was raised
watching the Southeastern Conference. My mother is the most rabid
Auburn University fan, and every it was every Saturday we

(02:22):
would watch the games. Yeah. No, I'm the opposite of that.
I'll go ahead and say it. No football in your household. No.
And it's funny because all these years of Thanksgiving, when
my dad would turn on football, I just assumed he
was pretending, like, you don't really like football, You've never
watched football, I've never seen you go to a game,
have opinions about it, whatever. But apparently he does like
football now and again, and he actually knows who the

(02:45):
team's are. But my mother and I could care less.
I went to U g A with Kristen Conger and No.
I went to a couple of u g A games.
It wasn't my thing. I actually don't like crowds and
football is to start and stop. I prefer saw or
basketball myself. Yeah, if you grow up as I did
in a college football town, um you quickly well for

(03:10):
some people myself again personalizing this, uh, it's it's not
the event of a college football game. It's not that
fun because you can't go anywhere. But if you stay
home and you make snacks and dips, then then I
can get on board with that. Also beer if you
are of age. But as far as the NFL goes,

(03:33):
I am. I totally drop off. College is where it
stops for me. But Caroline, you and I are kind
of wacky in this regard because apparently football, NFL football,
we should say, is all the rage among women. There is.
Actually in advertising Age magazine this week, I had a
headline saying women's top watch show is not what you

(03:56):
think in parents in parentheses dancing with the Stars. No,
it's not dancing with the stars. It's football. Yeah. We
actually apparently who knew women like sports? Who slash um?
It actually is sort of a big news flash to
a lot of people that women are watching NFL football
everybody kind of assumed like, Okay, well, you're not really

(04:16):
watching it. You're probably just in the room while you're
significant your male significant other is watching it, or your
children or whatever. But there is a significant number of
female fans out there who are, um like, actually keeping
up with the stats and whatever. Can you tell that
I'm not a football fan. I'm like, I don't, I
don't even know. I don't know what they keep up with.
They well, they, well, here here's some statistics, because sports

(04:41):
and fandom is all about statistics. So here we go
out in the NFL, women comprise of the fan base
pretty good, and they are a third of so called
avid fans, the ones who would be able to tell
you the finer point of that referee call that was

(05:02):
so botched earlier this week. Shame on that event. A
lot of these stats, though, are looking at the super
Bowl specifically, and I kind of think, well, you know,
the super Bowl is more general, Like I've watched the
Super Bowl, although I watch it more for the ads.
I wanted to the game again, the snacks, the snacks

(05:23):
because I couldn't, I really couldn't care less, and so um.
A lot of magazines and articles and everything have looked
at female viewership of the Super Bowl and they have
been blown away, and so they wanted to look at
why the number is rising. And Brian McCarthy, who's an
NFL spokesman, said that more women enjoyed the game itself

(05:43):
and the strategy behind the plays. They also enjoyed the
opportunity to come together as a family or with friends
to watch the event. And according to NFL research, it's
more accepted and even expected for women to take an
active interest in football. And so I just think it's
cool that there's this whole attitude surrounding female football fans
like can you can you believe it? Can you believe

(06:04):
they exist? Yeah? And the fact that there are research
finds that we enjoy the game and strategy and getting
together to watch the game sounds like the reason why
people in human human people, why humans watch sports? Um,
And going back to the super Bowl for a second
to put some numbers around that, in two thousand and twelve,

(06:26):
this year, fifty over fifty million women watched the Super Bowl,
and that's compared to twenty four million who watched the Oscars,
just under twenty four million who watched the Grammys, and
eight million who watched the Emmy's nobody cares about. But
the funny thing is the in multiple articles from I think,

(06:49):
say like two thousand ten through two thousand twelve, the
sporting event that the Super Bowl is always compared to
in terms of female viewership is the ninety four Winter
Olympics figure skating showdown between Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan,
which was previously the record holder for women viewers. Why me, yeah,

(07:13):
exactly that Well, that was like a soap opera on ice.
Who wouldn't watch. My parents still joke about those Olympics
because they're bad people. But anyway, okay, So according to Nielsen,
this is back in um, women were actually fifty eight
million of the one hundred and thirty eight million Americans
who consider themselves NFL fans. So there are a lot

(07:35):
of women out there, and it's really making advertisers and
real retailers take notice. So now we're seeing more ads
geared toward women during games. An independent ad agency study,
for instance, found that in general, women look forward more
to the commercials than the game, which is what I
accused myself of. So there there are a lot of

(07:58):
different reasons that people are getting into these games. Well,
I think that's more specific to to the to the
super Bowl. But one thing, the reason why advertising age
and all of these UH networks have been so psyched
about women's NFL viewership is that it's not just the
super Bowl. UH. This is as of January eleven, NBC

(08:21):
Sunday Night Football was the number three TV show for
women ages eighteen to forty nine, at which point advertisers
and brands just here like a cash register, ringing over
and over again. And for some fun facts though, about
where those women who are watching all this football are clustered.

(08:41):
If we've got any ladies out in Baltimore, that's not
as as saying. The Baltimore Ravens, in fact, are the
first NFL team to start a female fan club, which
now has over twenty five thousand members. So Baltimore women
love them some NFL, but not as much as women

(09:03):
in Pittsburgh. That's right, the Steelers fans. This is going
back to two thousand seven, so perhaps things have changed,
but I doubt that it really has because they had
a pretty strong lead. USA Today reported on a Scarborough
sports marketing survey that ranked Pittsburgh is having the largest

(09:23):
NFL female fan base. So Steelers, you've got lots of
ladies cheering for you, and that it's followed up by
the Green Bay Packers cheese heads. Is that derogatory, But
that's that's what the fans call themselves when they put
actual cheese on their heads, cubes of cheese foam. It's
I guess it's not actual cheese. No, it's not real cheese.

(09:44):
That would be disgusting and delicious snack. So yeah, So
speaking of snacks. Part of the reasons that that advertisers
really perked up when all these numbers about women start
rolling in. It's not only that year they have another
market to to not exploit, cater to pitch things to

(10:05):
get people to buy their stuff. It's that there's this notion,
uh that is statistically proven that women are sort of
the heads of the household when it comes to spending
money on stuff, making purchases. They're the kind of the
deciders or as the some people in the NFL call them,
the like the CFOs of the household. So not only

(10:26):
like Chris and said, are these marketers hearing the dollar signs,
they're also seeing a great opportunity to market to people
who maybe they hadn't considered before. We're seriously even watching
their advertisements. Yeah. So for that reason, you have things
like in two thousand six, during the Super Bowl Dove
launch it's uh now pretty famous self Esteem Fund, which

(10:49):
was I think it was the campaign for for Real
Beauty where it used um women, non model bodies put
it that way, uh to to launch that and a
campaign site saw a one thousand, six hundred percent increase
in traffic. Rebok has done a similar thing. They launched
be a Woman, Be a Fan campaign that helped the

(11:12):
business grow that year. Also, if you watch Sunday Night Football,
Monday Night Football, I can't remember which one it is,
but you have products like Fabrize now buying heavily into
those primetime slots, and the Fabris folks, they're not looking
to get more dudes with cheese blocks on their heads

(11:33):
to spray their nice scents every although if you're wearing
cheese on your head, you probably should use an air.
You should get some Fabris, you know. I asked my
my roommate, who is a dude who is super into football.
I was like, hey, have you you know Christian and
I were doing this episode. Have you noticed, you know
in your football games, like while you're watching, UM, they're
more lady geared advertisements, you know, anything like that would

(11:56):
be stereotypically woman related, like detergent or something. And he
was like, honestly, I have no idea. I don't pay attention.
So maybe men aren't noticing as much. Maybe maybe maybe
women are picking up on it. That could be UM
and women are also apparently picking up on new apparel
that the NFFL is trying to crank out for them.

(12:17):
There was there's been so much coverage just in the
past month or so in the lead up to the
new NFL season in about all this money and marketing
that the NFL is pouring into its female oriented merchandise.
There was an interview with Tracy Blazinski, who's the VP

(12:41):
for Consumer Products at NFL, and she was talking to
The New York Times and other media outlets about how
the previous strategy had been something called pink it and
shrink it. In other words, you take a jersey of
insert Rawlessburger that's the name of an NFL player. You

(13:03):
take the Rothlessburger. I'm really hoping that he's still playing football.
You take Joe Nameth. Okay, you take a Joe names
Jersey slathered in pink, cut it down to a baby
tea size, and then they sell it and that's it
and they're done. Yeah. They didn't sort of seek out
to add anything to it. They were just like, well,

(13:24):
surely you just want the same thing. You just want
it smaller and pink. But there are a lot of
opinions flying around out there that are like, um, actually,
can we just have normal things but in our size,
so like actual sports clothing that isn't pink. No. I mean, well,
the NFL essentially said, hey, okay, yeah, we'll make things
in your size, but it's going to be high end.

(13:45):
It's gonna be fashionable and fabulous, and we're gonna launch
a campaign called It's My Team featuring notable women in
this new feminized INFL gear, including Connolly's a Rice. And
I have to say, I really like Conda Liza Rice's ad.
She looks very classy. It's a very nice ad. Um
considering I guess that she could have been modeling a

(14:06):
seventy dollar off the shoulder sweatshirt, perhaps a seventy six
dollar backless halter top, and maybe sporting some three hundred
sixty dollar leather boots. Well we have there was that
famous picture of Conda Liza and the in the suit
and those a fashionable lady love of boots. Yeah. And
even though some of the NFL merchandise is a marketed

(14:30):
now to women, this new It's my Team campaign, it
is expensive and it is not all things that I
would select for my personal wardrobe. But you know what, Uh,
the NFL, it doesn't matter that I might not buy
that backless halter top for seventy six dollars because they

(14:52):
are moving a lot of merchandise. According to ESPN, NFL
merchandise sold to women jump significantly over in December of
last year, they saw percent sales increase over the previous year.
But the thing about talking about these, uh, these marketing campaigns,
the different brands that are really investing in this, uh,

(15:17):
this female demographic with NFL football is the fact that
when you and I were researching for this episode, you
look up women in football and NFL and this is
all the coverage that it is. It's all fashion and
it's all merchandise. It's really it's so little about women

(15:40):
who are really into the game. It's more just Hey, look,
there's the NFL's now selling new boots, pink boots with
a Steelers logo emblazoned on them, for nine thousand dollars
by them, And that was really like all all it was,
which I had. Still I find it a little bit. Well,

(16:02):
it's either it's either fashion or it's slide shows of like, oh,
look at Pittsburgh's sexiest fans and stuff like that. Like,
there are very few places, I feel like where female
fans can actually go and get a serious look at
sports and football. Um, that's not either talking down to
them and I'll painted in pink, or that's trying to

(16:23):
sell them a T shirt for a hundred dollars or
being like, hey, send us your pictures, you know, your
sexy time at the football game. Well, it's also the
question of whether or not, uh and not to go
off on a total tangent, but whether or not women
even need that. It's not like men have these sports
spaces where it's all relative to gendered things. It's just

(16:47):
about sports. It's about analysis, statistics and probably not so
much about backless halter tops. Well, except for those slide
shows of the sexiest fans, there are so many sexiest
fans Joe's on the Internet. But ESPN has made an
effort to reach out to women online, at least with

(17:08):
the launch of ESPN W, which is its brand that
it's trying to use to target female sports fans. Obviously
that's what the W stands for, but it doesn't seem
like it's really gotten any legs. Well, and there's also
the question of why is ESPN just figuring out that

(17:29):
women might be interested? But then again, like you said,
you know, is this even necessary to have a separate
site dedicated to women when maybe female sports fans are
just reading ESPN anyway. Well, I think it's not so
much female sports fans. I think there is something specific
about NFL football and the fact that it is one

(17:52):
of the only sports that really, aside from kind of
niche groups here and there, and you have a few
players in the high school level here and there, it's
the only sport that is for the most part shut
off two women, not only on the field. You Now,
I think this year was the first time they had
a female ref um in an NFL game. That's one, uh,

(18:19):
but it's really I mean, it's it's it's a sport
that's been relegated strictly to men and even in terms
of spectating, and I think it's now just finally starting
to catch up. But the sad part is that NFL
just sees women as potential consumers rather than real avid fans. Right, well,

(18:39):
there's definitely that whole perception that is very prevalent. If
you talk to almost anybody, anybody who's a major football fan,
they have if they don't hold this opinion, they have
encountered this opinion of football being a male dominated activity.
And you're a woman, so you're not a real fan.
And not only are you not a real fan, but
your presence and your opinions are almost a threat to

(19:01):
the game itself. And this is um part of a
thesis by Mackenzie Ryan back in August of for Bowling
Green State University. UM. She talked to a bunch of people,
she reviewed a lot of message boards online and things
like that, and found a lot of um, how should
I say, very passionate opinions sexist you can call them

(19:22):
flat out sexist opinion. Yeah, they were pretty jerky opinions
about women's involvement in football in anyway I mean. And
granted she was pulling out specific examples to highlight some
of the misogyny that goes on in the fan base.
But for instance, she talks about the the issue of
violence on the football field and how it's a growing

(19:46):
concern about the long term health effects of injuries and
concussions that are sustained, and um, there is this opinion
that while it's a good thing that more women are
watching football, it's really important that the NFL invest in
these female fans because it is the mothers that will

(20:08):
let their sons play football. But at the same time,
within the fan base, you have the flip side of
that to where, uh, some would say the only reason
we're caring about all this is because the sport is
becoming feminized, because we have to reach out more to
women and care more about safety. Women are stepping into
this like formerly like men's only field and messing things up. Yeah,

(20:33):
Like one one quote she pulled out basically was like, hey,
can we not be men anymore? Can you just stay
out of it? Why do you why do you have
to be feminizing everything? And uh, Mackenzie Ryan points out,
you know, player safety is not really a gendered issue,
but the NFL has kind of you know, intentionally or
not made it that way because they're like, all right, well,

(20:54):
so how do we appeal to women. Well, we tell
them that it's you know, we are focused on safety.
You know, these are mothers, these are sisters, These are
daughters who are worried about men playing football. So, you know,
for better or worse, women are kind of getting flammed
for calling for this stuff to happen, and men see
them as interfering. Yeah, I mean, and and we should

(21:15):
clarify that it's that it's not that it's not all
all men by any means. Again, like she was pulling
out examples to to talk about the difference between like
how how women are are not necessarily perceived as real fans,
and she says that it's because quote, football is among
the few sports where women are still mostly absent as participants,
and women's spectators are not seen as equal to male

(21:37):
spectators in terms of knowledge and dedication. There was one
example that she gave where, uh, some woman had written
a blog post predicting one team to win. The team
did not win, and the comments section went crazy with
all of these dudes just like trouncing on her saying,

(21:59):
like you don't. You shouldn't even be really watching this anyway,
get back to the kitchen and make some more chicken wines.
There's a lot of sandwich comments that I've noticed too,
and it also extends into sports journalism especially. It's especially
tough for women UH journalists working in the NFL trying

(22:19):
The open locker policy was instituted in NI but it's
still a problem amongst some teams for female journalists even
be let inside of the lockers. Institutionally, it is still
overwhelmingly dominated by guys. No big surprise, um, but for instance,
Amy Trask of the Oakland Raiders is the only female
president or CEO of a team in the NFL. So,

(22:42):
in a lot of ways, like these new female fans,
while they might be marketed to in a very pinkwashed
kind of way, that is tiresome. For instance, the NFL
NFL dot Com is launching uh this new section on
their women's site to promote homegating, in other words, snacks
and recipes. And that's all we're really good for is

(23:03):
buying things and cooking things and maybe watching some football
every now and then. But as long as we have
fabries to spray afterwards after Warren cheese on your head
all day, right, But in a lot of ways, we
still are breaking new ground even though it is um.
Two people who I think are breaking ground. And now

(23:23):
we talked about female football sites like do we really
need them? Are they really important? I think two really
impressive women are Nikki Sickles and Shamika Lee. Sickles who
has a b A and Economics from Stanford and an
NBA from Columbia Business School, Lee who has a BA
from the University of Pennsylvania and an NBA from Harvard.
These ladies started her Game Life, which, according to pr

(23:46):
Web back in June twelve, is the largest media outlet
devoted to female NFL fans. This doesn't necessarily mean it's
the biggest like distribution wise, like page view wise, but
it has over forty female contributors and is the largest
female owned and operated media outlet dedicated to serving the
NFL's female fans. I think it's pretty cool. Yeah. And

(24:07):
there are a number of other sort of female football
niche sites like Football one oh one. You have Audible Magazine.
There's one out there that's a play on chick that
I just chicks in the huddle, Chicks in the huddle.
That's what it is. Uh, no comment there, um, but yeah,

(24:27):
I mean it is still very all of it is
very very gualified. Um. And as as a lover of
football snacks, you know, I can't, I can't give it
a complete thumbs down, but just as a as an
example of the tagline for a football one oh one
is football one oh one, women are focused on giving
ladies the four one one about football facts, fashion, food,

(24:48):
and more the important of life, to which, like an
avid male fan would say, you know what's missing from
that statistics? Wore the statistics. I don't know, I could
go on. I think it's I think it's interesting to
maybe like consider these I don't think about the gendered
aspects of fandom very very often. And that thesis that

(25:10):
we found from Bowling Green was one of the only
pieces of academic research to look at that within the
context of American football. There's a ton of it for
European football, but with the NFL, maybe it's just so
strange that women are watching and caring that we haven't
taken well. Maybe yeah, maybe these increased numbers and everything

(25:32):
will get people's attention and they'll start to look at
women's involvement. So maybe when when we're old and have
canes and we come back into the podcast studio and
you know, fifty years we will we will update you.
Or as I think it's Malcolm Gladwell and Jonah Laire,
the embattled Jonah Laire have predicted they think that football
is just going to go away because of the bad

(25:54):
reputations getting due to the violence and concussions. I don't
think so. Yeah, there's too much money. You have so
much money, call me a cynic. So women in football,
the fans, ladies, it is time to hear from you.
What have been your experiences if you are a football
fan and you are a woman, have you have you

(26:18):
been treated as just you know, uh, silly snack maker,
silly snack maker. Yeah, let's hear from the people who
actually like go to games, follow their team, maybe with
their dad when they were a kid. Like, we want
to hear your fans stories and what do you think
too about uh, the fact that the NFL is pouring

(26:39):
so much money into really just into marketing. They just
want you to dress up, it seems like. But not
that they don't do that to guys as well. Um,
but anyway. I mean, you don't see I don't know
Colin Powell doing doing at campaigns. I digress email as
mom stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can

(27:02):
send your letters. Hey, but before we get into listener mail,
I've got a little message here because this episode of
Stuff Mom Never Told You is brought to you by
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(28:32):
to I think our fan least favorite topic of uterine
pro laps, it's not going in a way. I've got
an email here from Abigail about uterine pro laps and
she says, I had a baby about nine and a
half months ago, and your episode on uterine pro laps

(28:53):
got me doing my kegles all the way home. You
spoke about differences in women in other countries, and I
thought you'd be interested to hear my story about a
friend in France. Shortly after having my baby, my friend
asked me when I'd be starting physical therapy. After giving
her the law answer, she proceeded to tell me that
in France, or at least the arias she lives in,

(29:14):
its standard procedure to write physical therapy prescriptions for women
who have just given birth, either vaginally or c section,
with the sole purpose of strengthening the pelvic muscles to
keep things like uterine prolapse from occurring. I have heard
about that on the side note, and I think it
is across France. She was shocked the same was not

(29:34):
true in the US. Also, the women from the pelvic
health center at the hospital I gave birth said the
average woman waits seven years before seeking medical help for
pelvic issues. Imagine seven years of peeing every time you sneeze.
This results in more drastic measures like surgery when perhaps
a little physical therapy in the beginning would have done
the trick. Or if you have a baby, take a

(29:55):
vacation in France. That was just my side note if
you can send down through that, So thanks Abigail. Okay.
Here's an email from Allison about breast sizes. A lot
of people had a lot of things to say about
this one too, mostly positive. I think everybody likes hearing
that they're normal. Yeah, it's good, good to be uh
to have that reinforced um, she says. I just thought

(30:18):
i'd share this little anecdote for anyone worried about what
the Fellows think about asymmetrical breath. I have boobs with
slightly different sizes, not super noticeable but definitely different. A
few months ago, my now ex boyfriend and I were
talking about boobs and I mentioned that one of mine
was slightly bigger than the other. Not only had he
not even noticed up to that moment, but after we
talked about it, he did not mind at all. In fact,

(30:39):
I'm not sure he even paid attention to which one
was bigger and which one was smaller. He's a guy.
They just like boobs. So the lesson I learned from
that was that guys do not care at all. She
italicized about asymmetrical breasts and that ladies around the world
should stop worrying about it. I know I have, so
thank you, Alison, and thanks everybody who's written in mom

(30:59):
Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can send
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(31:19):
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.

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