Larry Summers and the Epstein Emails

The release of the Epstein emails made clear that people of all types were involved, including Larry Summers, who has connections to Harvard and OpenAI. Bridget Todd breaks down why this matters.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
I never told you production if I hurt you, and
we are once again so happy to be joined by
the marvelous, the magnificent Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thanks for having me back. Always such a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
It is, it really is. I look forward to talking
to you every time, even though the topics we tackle
famously not so. It's not so easy.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
I always say this, I swear I am a happy
person who is drawn to happy things.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Something about let's just cut let's just be real.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
It's there's a lot of misery out there, and sometimes
I end up covering it on podcasts, But I am
a happy person who is drawn to happy things.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Don't get insted exactly.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
The reality is, as much as like we would love
to be happy, go lucky, all of the things that
are happening we can't ignore. And it just happens that
these things are really gross and sad. And you know,
if I have to be given sad news or really
gross information, having someone as upbeat as you bringing it
to me, Bridget is kind of nice. Because I am

(01:20):
a sad person.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I am drawn to the darkness.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
I am a bit gloomy, so having your perspective which
puts it in such a very factual but.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Also like realistic, but like here what.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Could be solutions, Here could be like the good possibilities,
and here are the realities. It's nice to be given
those that kind of news from someone like you. So
I appreciate that you bring this to us.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
That makes me so happy to hear.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
I mean, that really is what I try to do there,
Like there's no need for panic, even though things are
tough and scary, but you still need to know what's
going on. And also I think sometimes the conversations that
are happening these days are so grim that it's tempting
to just sort of check out from them. But we
really do need to understand how these things impact things

(02:07):
like gender and things like identity and who gets to
show up as themselves and who doesn't?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
You know, I think it's important.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
So thank you, yes, well, thank you. You know here's
the million dollar question. How have you been rigid?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Oh god, this is like that broad City. I mean,
how am I?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Things are good?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I actually just came back from a trip to Spain.
I was there doing a live show for this other podcast.
That I work on called Irl with Mozilla Foundation, which
was awesome. Was my first time in Spain. I went
to Barcelona, which was lovely and wonderful.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I didn't want to come back. We might.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
This was the first time it's ever happened to me.
We were supposed to land in Barcelona. We tried to
land in Barcelona through very atypical lightning storms and it
was one of those situations is where you know, we
everybody on the plane looked out the window and just
saw these big bolts of lightning and we all just
sort of made a quiet peace with our gods. Then

(03:10):
the plane went back up in the air and the
pilot was like, yeah, we can't land in Barcelona, so
we're landing in Madrid. So I got to go to
a bonus, a bonus trip to Madrid. First time I've
ever experienced that a plane landing in a different place
than where you thought it was gonna land.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Okay, I think this is the only time that would
be warranted for y'all to clap.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Somebody is sitting next to me burst into tears like
it was like unfair. It really was a moment of
like are we gonna make it right?

Speaker 4 (03:39):
Everybody's quiet and eeriness because they're like, oh god, what
do we Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
That was That was the creepy part, is that people
were like gasping, and a few people like like shrieked
or screamed.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
But at a certain point everybody just got very quiet.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
And that's when you know you're like, oh, this we
are in a situation.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Be real.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
But it ended up being fine, and I got to
see Madrid for the first time, so I'm all good.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
Nice, We love a good twist, a happy ending.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, how have you two? Then?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Well, Samtha's apparently you.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
Know my answer was not pretty. And for the listeners
who have listened consistently and have just recently heard my
happy hour, which was thirty minutes long of me beaching
and whining about adulthood, I think they know. But you
know what, we are together, so I am doing much
better right now than I'm want twenty minutes ago. I
will say that.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
More like an unhappy hour.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
It really was.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
We named that specific session and wine because we have
some wine and then we and then I say.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Things, Well, there's a power in unloading yourself like that.
I'm okay, yeah, I'm good. I've had a lot of
good times with friends lately, and I appreciate that. That's
a nice I've gotten to see some people I haven't
seen it in a while, and it's been nice. I'm pretty tired,
but it's been good.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, especially as we go into the dark months. I mean,
we still have the holidays. I feel like after the
holidays is when the real slug begins. But holding onto
those small comforts like getting to see friends, you know,
I think that really is very important.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, and especially given some of the news right now
and some of the dark, dark times and dark things
we're going to talk about in this episode.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
That is right, just a content warning up top because
we were talking about convicted sex criminal Jeffrey Epstein, which I.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Feel like it's everywhere in the news.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
You really kind of can't avoid the conversation around him.
Today is November twentieth, so by the time you hear this,
there is some chance that things might have changed. But
here is the latest as of today. So yesterday, the
Senate almost unanimously voted to release the Epstein files, with
only one dissenting vote, Republican Representative Klay Higgins of Louisiana.

(06:02):
So curious what's going on?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
With him. I know, I looked at it.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
I was like, oh, you're just a major trumper, even
for Republicans. See, he seems like a quite extreme fellow.
So I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it is
well to be like, oh, even among Republicans, just one
dissenting vote.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
So that bill then went to Trump's desk.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
There were some back and forth of whether Trump was
going to sign it, but he did. So what happens
now is the Department of Justice has thirty days to
release these files.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
I'm trying not to be a conspiracist, but I swear
the more I read, especially in this specific topic, the
thirty days seems too long. I know there has to
be some jurisdiction and all of that, but it feels
like there's too much happening, and thirty days is giving
them too much time and including the fight. Are they

(06:56):
actually going to release it? That's my question.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, that is seems to be the big question. I
should say. I am no attorney so this is somewhat
above my pay grade. But here's a little bit from CNN.
Despite Trump signing the bill, uncertainty remains. Attorney General Pam
Bondi said yesterday that the Department of Justice will quote
follow the law, but some lawmakers and analysts are worried
that the Trump administration may try to hinder the process

(07:19):
by slowing the release or redacting information. So I don't
know above my pay grade, but your worries are grounded.
You're not the only person with that question. That seems
to be the question on everybody's mind. And in any event,
this is still all like a very big reversal of
the time very recently when Trump was calling this entire

(07:41):
thing a Democrat hoax, when Pam Bondy was like, oh,
there's not going to be any additional information release.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
We looked into it. We don't need to release any
more information.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
But then Trump was also recently vowing to investigate any
Democrats accused of breaking the law and the Epstein files,
which like, if the entire thing was just a big
Democratic hope, why would there be Democrats in the files.
I'm not fully as sure that he thought this one through,
but there you have it. And I do think it's
this weird thing where people, in an attempt to downplay

(08:12):
this entire thing, are saying, well, what if this takes
down a prominent Democrat like Bill Clinton, to which I say, great, like,
get him out of here. If Bill Clinton committed a
crime and that is revealed in the Epstein files, take
him to prison, right, Like, I don't think anybody is saying, no,
we need to protect prominent democrats like Bill Clinton from

(08:33):
accountability if they are named as having committed sex crimes
in the Epstein files. And also, do people really think
that most leftists are like clinging to the legacy of
Bill Clinton.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
I saw this great post.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
That was like, oh no, then I would have to
take down my Bill Clinton yard sign, burn my Bill
Clinton hat and T shirt, take off my Bill Clinton
car wrap, Like what are these people talking about? This
is completely like a fiction.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
It really does baffle me, I guess in the sense
of like the people thinking everyone just because they have
idolized a politician into a way of being like this
is God's son literally putting pictures of like this, He's
the new Jesus that we all think of that way
for anyone that we voted for, instead of understanding a
lot of the choices that we make is the less

(09:22):
are evil and hoping that we can negotiate and hold
our people accountable to follow through with the promises they made,
Like it's not like this level of like, these are
people who work for us. These are people who we
are supposed to be able to, like count on to
protect our rights, not people I pray to because I
think you're going to do something to other people that

(09:43):
I don't like or I don't agree with that. That's
the other part to that is like their worship for
him is not because they think he's going to do
something great for them, is that he's going to be
mean to other people for them exactly.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh, this is a bit of a non sequitor.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
But over the summer, I was at Ocean City, Maryland,
which is just like a kind of a trashy beach
town but I fully love and I go there every summer,
and they have all these boardwalk t shirt shops, and
every one of them has such prominent Trump memorabilia, Trump.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Hats, Trump shirts. It's like Trump Trump Trump, Tump Trump.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
And I remember thinking I want to go into one
of these stories and be like, excuse me, where's your
Hakeem Jeffrey section, Like there's not You're you're so right
that there's not an analogous thing on the left where
people are buying like, you know, Hakeem Jeffrey's car wraps
and stuff like Ocean City boardwalks are not cluttered with
memorabilia about AOC.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
It's just an interesting level. Also, the again with your
non sequit I love that everyone, and I mean everyone
takes advantage of that level of consumerism. Be like, yeah,
we'll buy those key products and sell itate everybody because
they all buy it. I'm gonna make money. You're gonna
be that ridiculous. I'm gonna sell it to you.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Get your money. I'm not even mad at it, to
be honest with you.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
So the thing about whether or not prominent people, including
Democrats like Bill Clinton, would be involved in the Epstein
files is that Epstein, this is his total emmo. He
intentionally had deep ties to all kinds of prominent, wealthy,
powerful people on all sides of the aisle. This is
the same thing we saw from other convicted sex criminal
Sean Diddycomb's you know, surround yourself with wealthy, prominent, powerful

(11:23):
people and that both becomes this shield from accountability for
your crimes and then also you can get dirt on
all these other powerful people and sort of have an
extra layer of power and protection. So it is pretty
likely that it's the entirety of who did what is released.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
There would be powerful.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
People on all sides of the political spectrum and also
just like wealthy, famous non political people because that's how
Epstein rolled. But I want to talk about one prominent
democrat who we know had a connection with Epstein and
what that says about our current tech climate.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
And that person is Larry.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Summers, yep who I did not know by name. I
knew of him. I think I just didn't know him,
but now I do, and I'm like, what a way
for people to find out?

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Oh, yes, this is why we wanted to make this
episode in part, just as an old these names that
come up, you're like, oh, well, if you're under thirty,
you might not know this name, but if you're over thirty,
you might remember a lot about this person just from
being a person who was alive when a lot of
this stuff was going on. So Larry Summers, he might
not be a flashy name that you recognize, but if

(12:34):
you have any cash dollar bills that were minted from
nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and one, you are
carrying around Larry Summers's signature.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
In your wallet because his signature is on the money
that was mented then because he was the US Secretary
of the Treasury from nineteen ninety nine to two thousand
and one under former President Bill Clinton.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
And he was also the Director of the National Economic
Council under former President Barack Obama. Basically that's the fancy
title for the fact that he was the top advisor
on economic matters for the president.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
So a pretty big deal.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
And Annie, you actually, I think we talked about the
movie The Social Network one time on here and how
much I like it. He is actually a fictionalized version
of himself is portrayed in the movie The Social Network.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
He's sort of portrayed.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
As like a good guy when the Winklevoss twins set
up a meeting with him to complain that Zuckerberg stole
their idea for Facebook while they were students at Harvard,
of which Larry Summers used to be the president of
which I will come back to. But yeah, so you
might have seen like a fictionalized version of Larry Summers
in that movie.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm gonna have to go back and watch it now.
It's gonna be strange. Now I know all this other
stuff that has come out. Yes, yes, yes, even about Zuckerberg.
At the time, he was bad, and now I'm like,
oh wild that.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I feel like the Winklevoss Twins are the kind of
the ones that history sort of is like, well there,
I'm not reading about them like in connections with convicted
sex criminals and stuff, or you know, disrupting democracy via
Facebook and meta.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
So I don't know, maybe they turned out to be
Maybe history.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Will be kinder to the Winklevoss Twins, even though they're
sort of portrayed as the villains in that movie.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
I played by.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
Who played who played?

Speaker 3 (14:23):
How did I just put this Togetherlake?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
But that justin Timberlake is Sean Parker, the nabster guy.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Oh okay, okay, Wow.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
I'm going to rewatch this and I think I'm going
to have a wild time.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
I've never seen it.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
I just know such a good movie.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
If you ever ever want to do a rewatch, like
we all watch it and like recap it.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
With you love to Yes, we might need we might
need to do this.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh my gosh, my first time.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Take cast some characters and that in that hole, both
in the fictionalized version in the Sorkin film and in
real life just a real a menagerie there. So folks

(15:14):
have probably seen or heard about some of these emails
that were newly released as part of the Epstein files,
because last week the House Oversight Committee released a new
round of twenty thousand documents and emails from Epstein's estate.
And that is how we know that Larry Summers, who
is currently a very big deal professor at Harvard University,
is mentioned as somebody who had a documented, pretty uncool

(15:38):
relationship with convicted pedophile and wealthy financier Jeffrey Epstein. And
just in the way of disclosures, before I talk too
much about Harvard University, I should disclose that I am
currently an affiliate of Harvard University's Brooklyn Clin Center.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
So I did want to back.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Up and just give a bit of a quick and
dirty rundown of who Epstein is for folks who are
not mired.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
And this a guy had been the last couple of months.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
So Epstein was a wealthy financier who threw his money
all over the place. He was convicted of sex crimes
against a minor in two thousand and eight and famously
got off on a very lenient sentence for that.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Crime only thirteen months with work release.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Importantly, both before this and notably after this conviction, a
lot of influential people continued to associate with Epstein, who
by then was a convicted sex criminal. Ebstein died in
jail in twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on federal sex
trafficking charges, and the New York City Medical Examiner ruled

(16:36):
his death of suicide, but conspiracy theories claiming that Epstein
didn't kill himself began to spread almost immediately in the aftermath.
The idea here is that Epstein was taken out to
avoid details that might incriminate powerful people that he associated with.
And it's one of those theories that kind of works
regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, because
Epstein had ties with all the political party and as

(17:01):
I said that, ingratiating himself with like wealthy, powerful spaces
and people was just sort of Epstein's m especially in
the tech world. He gave donations to a lot of
influential tech spaces. We did an episode of my podcast
There Are No Girls on the Internet about the contributions
he made to MIT's Media Lab and the Kenyan first

(17:22):
year MIT grad student who called for Joy Echo ahead
of the Media Lab to step down once this was revealed.
He also had some kind of a relationship with Microsoft
co founder Bill Gates. Bill Gates's ex wife, Melinda has
given several interviews to the effect that her marriage to

(17:42):
Bill Gates ended in part because of Bill Gates's relationship
with Jeffrey Epstein. She does this interview with Gail King
where Gail is like, well, what exactly happened? Like, can
you give us more details about what made you want
to leave your husband because of Epstein?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
And she was like, you're gonna have to ask Bill Gates.
That not me.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
So it's like a very it seems to me she's
like continuating something and all I guess I'll just leave
it at that. So it's one of those things where
you have a lot of powerful, rich and famous people
having this connection with Epstein, and that is how he
designed it. And so when the House Oversite Committee released
these emails and these documents, we got a lot more

(18:26):
insight into what that looked like. And I just have
to add, as a side note, have you all read
any of these emails or exchanges?

Speaker 1 (18:35):
I have not.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
It makes me sad I've seen things being posted, so
I know of blips.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Okay, so this is just a side note. I guess
the way they.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Are written is working insane.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Like reading these emails that some of the most prominent, wealthy,
important people in government, tech, and media reading in the
way that they emailed each other has absolutely cured me
of my anxiety around needing to to word my emails
just so. When I'm writing an email, I'm trying to
gauge the exact right amount of exclamation marks to use

(19:12):
to sound enthusiastic and easy to work with, but not
too enthusiastic.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Every email is like, no worries. If not, I'm happy
to like I go through.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
So I go through so much second guessing this. Meanwhile,
Jeffery Epstein was just like, Yo, what's up. Want to
do some sex crimes later?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Lol?

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Like every word miss spell, every word mistype, every word misspelled.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Like punctuation absent or completely inexplicable.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yes, it's kind of like if a boomer was trying
to be cool and they're like lols and like that
type of thing no one actually uses, but they think
that's what the kids are doing.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Truly, it is like up number four sex crime question
mark lol, with small diz punctuated in insane. You say
he put a lot of stuff in writing that. I mean,
I just don't think any of this stuff should have
been in writing, And they're so egregiously mistyped that part
of me wonders if this was intentional, if they were

(20:12):
trying to like evade some sort of something. I have
no idea, but I want to make it clear that
he wasn't writing these in like nineteen ninety nine or something,
during a time and we didn't really have a concept
of what email was or what did or didn't belong
in emails and how to write them. He was writing
a lot of these emails in twenty eighteen, right at
a time when email was commonplace.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
The whole thing is just very weird to me.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, it does get to the like plausible deniability. I
would never write it that way. That's not how I
speak type of thing.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Or just even because they tried to index. You know,
you can search how many times a name comes up
or whatever in these and so if if there's like
a misspelling or if there's something that would mess up
trying to index something. So I also was kind of like,
are you trying to get around something I don't know about.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yes, that was my big and I have no idea,
but that was my thought because they're so everything is
so egregiously misspelled that it almost is like this has
to be some rich guy way of not having your
crimes getting found out later or something.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Otherwise you just really couldn't be type like that's.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
How do you get those bottom quotation marks. I really
have to go out of your way to do that.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
What I'm saying, I mean, we know the actual like
intelligence is not as intelligent as we think they are
when it comes to white men.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
So hellmo hell I mean they were putting this stuff
in writing, and it was like, yeah, don't put your
crimes in writing.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
However, I've said this so many times.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
There's nothing when when when it's like, oh, we've released
the emails, I'm like, well, I'm gonna read every single one.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I I there's just something about people.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Writing emails that they don't realize they're going to be
read later in a deposition or made public in a
deposition or something.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, so I should give a big caveat that.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Just because somebody knew Epstein and associated with him and
emailed with him, does not necessarily mean that they did
something criminal. When a lot of these people have been asked,
people are mostly like, oh, I didn't know him like that.
But at the same time, it is not like what
Epstein was doing was a secret. Right in twenty eleven,

(22:24):
mind you, this is two years after Epstein was convicted
of a sex crime against a minor. Bill Gates told
The New York Times about Epstein, quote, his lifestyle is
very different and kind of intriguing, although it would never
work for me. So you're not going to ever convince
me that Bill Gates had no idea he was associating

(22:45):
with somebody who committed sex crimes against miners. When he
was saying, like, you're just not going to be able
to convince me that he didn't know what was going on,
which is what he says now. When Epstein was donating
money to the MIT Media Lab, for instance, the staff
at MIT had a whole system for flagging Epstein's donations
using the code name Voldemort or he who shall not

(23:07):
be named, specifically to obscure where that money came from,
because he had already been convicted of sex crimes. So, yeah,
these people knew this was not a big secret people
now who were like, oh, I had no idea.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
I have a hard time believing some of the people
who are going out of their way to say this now.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah. And I also think some of the things we're hearing,
especially like Megan Kelly being like there's a difference between
a five year old and fifteen year old, I feel
like that we're also having to confront that older men
do this, yeah, and have been doing it forever, and

(23:49):
we've kind of societally been like, oh, that's his lifestyle
or yeah, that's yeah, that's what he's into. Gross.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, like the way Bill Gates is like, oh, his
lifestyle is certainly intriguing to me, Homie. Those are sex
crimes against kids. It's kind of lifestyle choice. We're not
talking about like being vegan. We're talking about a entire
network designed to traffic children for sex crime. Like, I

(24:22):
think you're exactly right, and I do think we should
talk about that because I think when we make Epstein
into a solo monster, which she definitely is a monster,
but it makes it easy to not look at some
of the ways these attitudes really do show up all
over the place. Right, you don't have to be flying

(24:45):
in girls on your private plane nicknamed the Lolita Express,
to have really messed up attitudes about young girls. I
was just reading an article about how a AI company
was used to deep fake images of girls to make

(25:06):
deep fake nudes, and they had used specifically yearbook pictures,
and it was like one of the headlines I'd read
was something to the effect of women's yearbook pictures used
for deep fakes.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I got to thinking, I'm a grown woman.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
I have not taken a yearbook photo since I have
become an adult, because it is not grown adult women
who take yearbook photos.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
It's children because they are in school.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
So why did this headline say that it was women's
yearbook photos, as if these.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Women were adults. Anybody who's getting.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
A yearbook photo unless you've got some other situation going on,
maybe you're a teacher. You're usually a child. You're in school,
you're in K through twelve education.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Mm hm oh. Yeah, I was looking because I saw
that headline too, and some of the advertisements for those sides.
Did you see that it said the AI girls will
never say no to Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
It was so disturbing that obviously there was so many
implications into these things in a like date rape culture,
but also coming back to the fact that yes, these
girls look like they're in school.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, and something about the way that the Megan Kelly thing,
you know, Meghan Kelly has a daughter who is like
fifteen sixteen, And I think especially for a parent or
somebody who spends a lot of time around a fifteen
sixteen year old to make it sound like because a

(26:30):
lot of people will say like, oh, well, she looked
older or seemed older. When you're around a fifteen year old,
you really have a front row seat to the ways
in which they are obviously very much kids.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
And I just think it's just it's hard.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
For me to wrap my head around somebody who could
be spending time with a fifteen year old and not
be like, this is a child. You know, there's there's
it's it's I just I really can't. If you spend
any time around, if you've got teenagers yourself, you really
see the ways every day in which they are just kids.
And it really is shocking to me that someone who

(27:04):
is around a fifteen year old every day, but really
anybody would make it seem like somehow because they're not
a toddler it's it's different, you know, and I know
that there are there are when it comes to like,
you know, professionals who study this kind of thing, they
have different designations. But really, you know, a sex crime

(27:26):
against a minor is a sex crime against a minor.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, well, and it just feels like such a if
you have to explain that you're already in the something
has gone wrong, something has gone wrong.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Oh yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
If you find yourself saying something like that, something's up,
like you need to you just to like run it
back exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Well, I guess we should get into Larry Summers quite pathetic,
quite pathetic emails.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Oh my god, pathetic is the word for it.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
So in this new drop of emails we get some
more insight until the relationship that Larry Summers had with
Jeffrey Epstein, and it's a weird one. So Summers described
Epstein as his quote wingman. So from these emails we
learn that Larry Summers was really hung up on trying
to pursue a romantic relationship with a student that he

(28:32):
referred to as his mentee, and he consistently sought advice
from Epstein about how to best do this. From November
twenty eighteen to July twenty nineteen. Text messages and emails
show that Larry Summers consistently asked Epstein for advice about
this relationship. Epstein responded eagerly, offering encouragement and tips, even
calling himself summers wingman in a message from November twenty eighteen.

(28:57):
Maybe don't get a convicted sex crime against kids. Maybe
don't seek this person out for advice on how to
get your mentee who is also a student, to have
sex with you, especially when you are married, which, by
the way, Larry Summers was when all of this.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Was going down.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yes, and also just a note he was contacting Epstein
until he went to jail.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yes, the guy finds so wild.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
So to make it clear, this contact was happening well
after Epstein's initial conviction on sex crimes against kids back
in two thousand and eight.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
And you are so right, Annie.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
The back and forth exchanges that Larry Summers had with
Jeffrey Epstein, they only ended the day before Epstein was
arrested again on new federal sex trafficking charges. So that
means they were like bud bud buds, Like if the
back and forth about how to get your mentee to
sleep with you only stopped because this man got arrested
on federal sex trafficking charges.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Y'all were in deep.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
They were like thickest thieves as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Like because someone was looking at the mail and you
would have to do it by hand, like it is insane,
That is insane.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
I do want to get into the meat of some
of these messages because I think they're very revealing about
what kind of person was actually, you know, at the
Helm at Harvard. So at one point, Summers told Epstein
that he was worried that maybe his Minty didn't want
to pursue a romantic or sexual relationship with him, because
maybe she just wanted to keep things professional. He said,

(30:27):
quote think for now, I'm going nowhere with her except economics,
mentor boring. Summers wrote on November twenty eighteen. I think
I'm right now in the seem very warmly in the
rear view mirror category. She must be very confused or
maybe wants to cut me off, but wants professional connection
a lot, so she holds to it.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Summers wrote in March twenty.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Nineteen, basically saying that like, oh like, I like her
and maybe she likes me, but she just wants to
keep me around for professional reasons.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Mind you, this he describe he is her mentor.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
So it's like, oh, she only wants me to like
give her economics guidance and education a little lowering.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
So who was this student in question?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
According to the Harvard Crimson and at least some of
its exchanges with Epstein on the relationship, Summers appears to
refer to economist ky eu Jin, a tenured professor at
the London School of Economics at the time, who is
mentioned in a series of late twenty eighteen messages between
the two men. So I actually knew who she was
before this all came to life, because she's a pretty
prominent person. She goes on all the big podcasts like

(31:34):
she is a pretty prominent career and is I would say,
a public figure at this point. So I mentioned this
because look how grossly Larry Summers talks about this person
who at the time was his mentor. Larry Summers was
forwarding academic work that she would send to.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Him to Epstein, so like, here's my paper, and.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Then he's like, I gotta get I gotta get Epstein's
eyes on this so some forwarded Epstein an email from
Gin which she was asking for feedback on a paper
that she had written, and then Summers used to Epstein
that it was probably appropriate to hold off on responding.
So he's really doing that thing of like, ooh, like
when should I text back?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Like is it like.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Should I give her her paper feedback today? Or does
that look too eager? Epstein replied, quote, she's already beginning
spelled wrong to sound needy, smiley face emoji nice. Now
Gin is Chinese, and at one point Summers wrote quote
capital you lowercase are better at understanding Chinese women than

(32:39):
at probability theory.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Larry wrote to Epstein. They used to also refer to
her as this nickname peril, right, So like when I
saw this, I was like, like, where did this nickname
come from?

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Apparently this nickname might be drawn from the racist quote
yellow Peril trope of the late nineteenth and twentieth century,
which was used to stoke fear that Asian immigrants, especially
Chinese and Japanese people, were a danger or a threat
to westerners. Just real cool and classy conversations to be
putting in writing with that convicted sex criminal.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Right, literally during that time is when they also made
this fear that all Asian women were prostitutes. So that
that was that implication of this level of Asian feticism
that began in that propaganda.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, and was continued in these messages.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
From twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
That's what I'm saying, Like, I just like.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, it's just like yeah, yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
So Epstein and Larry Summers were also financially entangled, which
is an Epstein classic. Summers traveled on Epstein's private plane,
which was nicknamed the Lolita Express, on at least four occasions,
including at least three times while Summers was the president
of Harvard. Summers also met more than a dozen times
with Epstein and solicited donations from him for his wife,

(34:03):
who was a Harvard English professor, Alisa Knew. The messages
released showed that Somers was trying to organize visits to
Harvard on Epstein's behalf to discuss his wife's poetry work.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
So just really not smart.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
I will say that Harvard did put out a report
about their connection to Epstein, and it seems like before
Epstein was convicted in two thousand and eight, he did
donate I think nine million dollars to Harvard, and after
he was convicted did visit campus.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
So it does seem like the calls were sort of
coming from inside the ivy of the university, if you
know what I mean. But having the president of Harvard
associating with somebody who had already been convicted of sex
crimes against miners, it's not a good look, to say
the least. It's definitely not good judgment. Now, if only
there had been some clue to tip us off that

(34:54):
perhaps Larry Summers was a creep who could not be
trusted in positions of authority around young women and co eds.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Oh wait a minute, because that's exactly what we fink got.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Because I mentioned that Larry Summers was formerly the president
of Harvard University, not just a professor there, lucky is
Now why was he forced to resign? You ask the
attitudes toward women. Where there is smoke, there is fire,
My friends, this should not be surprising to anybody. Unfortunately, no,

(35:26):
And I guess it's like why I wanted to talk
about this is like we had a whole converse. It
was a national conversation around two thousand and five, two
thousand and six about what kind of person Larry Summers was.
And it's just wild to be like, oh, we're that
guy's still in the mix.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
We're still talking about that guy.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yes, because these people they're never pushed out when like
it's clear something is going on. The thing that really
sunk Somers's ten year as president of Harvard who remarks
that he made in two thousand and five at an
economics conference. So Summers was talking about why there are
so few women in STEM fields, and he won the
reason why there aren't more women in these fields just

(36:02):
because women are just naturally and innately stupid and also
bad at things. He laid out three kind of potential
hypotheses for what's going on. One is that women want
more work life balance than men, so they can't succeed
in these fields as much as men. He was likeah,
it's probably not it. Two gender discrimination, which he basically
was like, yeah, I don't think so. And then the

(36:23):
one that he really kind of double clicked on was
the idea that women are just biologically worse at the
traits that one needs to succeed in STEM, which is
basically where he landed. He argued that the gender gap
in stem must be biological, specifically differences in intrinsic aptitude,
and that men and women might have different variabilities in

(36:44):
certain traits like math or science ability, meaning that more
men would just naturally occupy more top positions in those fields.
He tried to back this up with like behavioral genetics research,
claiming that some attributes once thought to come from socialization
may actually have you know, biological components. I will say

(37:05):
he did say when this kind of became a controversy,
he was like, oh, I thought this was meant to
be kind of an off the record safe space for
bad opinions about gender. So like, my bad, I didn't
know we were gonna be like telling everybody about what
it was being said here.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Oh that's another in the long line. We've been talking
a lot lately about and even with you, Bridget we've
discussed this before, but about men using those terms like
safe space completely incorrectly. And also it's kind of like,
no wonder women might not want to work with you

(37:44):
who has the power because you treat them as a
dating opportunity, your chance to have sex. Guess what, they
don't want to be involved in that, and you're the
one making these decisions.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Exactly that, Like, these things are so clearly linked. The
fact that he got up on a stage and said this,
and the fact that he was creepily pursuing his mentee
and sending her fucking like academic papers to a convicted pedophile,
these things are all linked, right, And I will just
say this, He also picked a terrible time to say
these things, because he said these things against the backdrop

(38:17):
of Harvard facing, according to the Crimson, widespread faculty criticism
following reports that women received only four of the thirty
two ten year offers from the Faculty of Arts and
Sciences that year. Right, So, like there was already like
a brew haha about women and whether or not they
were included and represented at Harvard.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
And he gets this, Jack gets on stage and says
these things.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
I wish that we could go back to that time
and have a different conversation about it, because I think
we'd be in a different place. Right now, I will
say that Summers apologize and clarify that he does not
believe that women are intellectually inferior. What a nice guy,
definitely a great president at Harvard. But this was all
so like not an isolated thing with him. He used

(39:02):
to joke about women's intelligence quite often, apparently, and talked
about what he described as excessive penalties for men who
hit on women in the workplace. Surprise, surprise, he was
actively hitting on his mentee at an academic institution. I
was like, are we being too hard on men who
just try to hit on women at work?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
He would think that, he wouldn't me.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
He sounds like the guy who's like, we can't talk
to women at all anymore. I can't be like touching
them though it's against the rules now, Like.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
What, yes, you behave that way?

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Yeah, women these days can't even try to cheat on
your wife with them or.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
What good time with them?

Speaker 3 (39:43):
So I should add that when this was going on,
a lot of people in the Harvard community did stick
up for him, but ultimately Harvard's board voted no confidence.
This controversy really lingered until eventually Larry Summers resigned from
his role as president of Harvard the next year. But
don't worry, two years later, President Obama named Somers as

(40:04):
the director of the National Economic Council. Because he always
lands on his feet, This one.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
The like comeback of white men. It really is like
amazing to say, like we talk about how women like
the bootstrapping theory, this, this is why that's not a thing,
Like bootstrap thing is not a thing because we see this,
like men who should be taken down always bounce back,
like they all because of connections, no matter what happens.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
And like some of the stuff that he was saying
to students and around campus, he we know from the
release of these emails that he was also saying the
same stuff to Epstein, which really isn't surprising.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
He retread that same terrain that he got it.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Years after getting in trouble for this stuff at Harvard,
he continued to say this kind of stuff to Epstein.
In twenty seventeen, he wrote this old gem, saying that
he had a quote observed that half the IQ in
the world was possessed by women, without mentioning that they
are more than fifty one percent of the population. Oh good, one,
it's not even a good joke, Like if you're gonna

(41:07):
there are you shouldn't be making jokes with this about women.
But it's not even like, in my opinion, not even
a very good joke.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
No, no, And it's I I mean all of this
is disgusting and horrific. But it is, going back twice
said earlier, very pathetic that you would have to reach
out to a convicted sex predator to get late because
he's very like he has one email that says something like,

(41:36):
I just need to get horizontal help. Yeah, yes, what
is wrong with you? Bro?

Speaker 2 (41:43):
You are the president of Harvard to show something like
act like it.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
It's something you know, A therapist once told me that
men in power their need to have sex with people
that they should not be having sex with.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
It makes them so small.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
And it's so true that like, you are the president
of HERT and you're putting in an email that you
just need to get horizontal. Bro to Jeffrey Epstein about
your men tee, that is a problem that is not
like I just yeah, And I think it really speaks
to the fact that I'm sure I've said this before,
I don't trust any institution where there are not women
all up and through at the tippy tippy top. If

(42:19):
it's all men or mostly men left to their own devices,
I don't care if it's an ivy, the university, the military,
the Catholic priesthood, anything, the NFL. If you don't got
women all up and through at the tippy top. I
don't trust it. Something's going on. Some shouldn't put in emails.
That shouldn't be put in emails.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
And why does they sell the emails sound like nineteen ninety
five boys? Like it was really like I'm just the
wording like the faces I have made throughout this whole episode,
like it's just discussed and shocked because I'm like, why
are you saying? Why are you sounding like my eighteen
year old nephew right now? What is wrong with you?

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, in the same breath, it'll be like I got
to get horizontal bro winki face, and then it'll be like, oh,
what are your.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Thoughts on Trump? Don't you think he's a buffoon?

Speaker 3 (43:06):
And it's like, I think that might be the buffoon
calling the buffoon a buffoon.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
All one in the saying what is happening?

Speaker 2 (43:14):
It's bad.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
So the fallout from Larry Summers's relationship with Epstein being
made clear, I actually feel like it's been pretty minimal.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Honestly.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Initially, after making that statement, he said that he was
going to be stepping back from public roles, but continue
was going to be continuing teaching at Harvard, so he's
currently like a faculty member at Harvard.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
There was a video. Maybe I'll put the audio in
if I can find it.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
There's a video of him starting his class a couple
of days ago, basically with an apology to students, being like, oh,
I'm sorry that I was friends with Epstein.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
With your permission, I'd like to.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Just like Kinchin, you talking about economics and class now. So,
after he announced that he was going to be not
stepping back from teaching, he eventually did reverse course and
said that he was going to be stepping back for
the moment. He does have ten years, so it's not
like he was fired and who knows what will happen,
you know next, but Ta's are going to finish off
the rest of his class with a semester. He also

(44:26):
resigned from the board of open Ai, the company that
makes chat GPT, and Harvard is launching an investigation into
his connections with Epstein, which, yeah, I'll say they should.
Elizabeth Warren, who is a law professor at Harvard, has
urged the university to cut ties with him. And I
guess the reason that I wanted to talk about this
is because.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
You know, when I was doing research.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
One of the big pieces that I read to prepare
for this conversation was this piece in The Times about
whether or not Summers could mount a comeback since he's
bounced back so many times in the past. Now, this
piece in the Time published the day that Summers announced
that he was going to be temporarily stepping back from
his classes, and I just hated that the conversation was

(45:09):
being framed just a few hours after he announced he
was just stepping down temporarily, as like, well, Kenna's career
be saved.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
He's seventy years old.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
I don't think that him being relieved from being in
a position to be around young, you know, co eds
and students and to have this relationship where he is
inherently of an authority figure to people like that.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I don't think that's like ruining his life, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Like the fact that it was even phrased that way
really bothered me. And Alejandro Carbalo, who is a clinical
instructor at Harvard Law Cyberclinic, commented online quote, it is
not normal for a professor to start a class discussing
how they regret being best buddies with a child sex trafficker,

(45:56):
and honestly I have to agree, right, we cannot. This
is not an apologize and move on and continue with
the economics lesson kind of thing. This is a pretty
big deal that when we should be treating it like
it's a pretty big deal.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
And I think especially.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Someone like Larry Summers, who at the very least has
over and over again proven himself to have pretty bad
judgment when it comes to women.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Having this person have.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Roles where he is so involved in hands on about
shaping what the future of technology looks like through things
like a board position at Open AI. I just think
that we really have to think about what that means
and whether or not men like this are who we
want shaping the future of how technology shows up in

(46:47):
all of our lives, right, Like, I certainly do not
trust somebody like Larry Summers to be making decisions about
what our shared future is going to look like.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
I'm honestly so disturbed by the mere fact that people
are ignoring the fact that heat for once, Like, I'm
sure there's so many other instances of like sexual harassment,
Like she actually said, I don't want to do this.
Can we keep this professional and her life is probably
being up ended, Like I cannot imagine what she like
the trauma and the shock she's going through seeing these

(47:16):
emails of not only that, having the name of Epstein,
like if she didn't know him, she hadn't met him,
and knowing all the things about him, and she was like, oh,
I literally was being trafficked, like groom trafficked and kind
of in a way with this dude who traffics and
grooms women and like as his profession, Like that's what
he was doing. And this man who I trusted, was

(47:38):
getting like territorial slash predatorial advice for me when all
I'm trying to do is survive and get an education
and move on in this life. Like there's so much
to this.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Yeah, and it's not like she asked to be involved
in this, And I should say, and in case it's
not clear, we don't even know that she had any
concept of the that this was going on, that her
mentor at Harvard was forwarding her perfectly reasonable emails and
papers and work to Jeffrey Epstein. It is it just

(48:12):
is really we should be treating it as a shocking
and unacceptable thing because it is. And I guess where
I land is that we really cannot keep acting shocked
when powerful institutions protect powerful men who have these like
long and well documented histories of bad judgment, sexist thinking,
and frankly ethically grotesque associations. Right, It's not like Summer's

(48:36):
just had one bad quote. He had an entire legacy
of things like minimizing discrimination, joking about women in the workplace,
letting Epstein fund his wife's projects, and treating young women
like his mentee like a conquest that he could gain
theory his way into getting horizontal with and then describing
it in the crudest ways impossible. Right, Like and Harvard,

(49:01):
the US government, tech companies, the media all kept continuing
to give him power. The New York Times writing an
article the day that it becomes clear that he's going
to step back temporarily teaching, asking about the state of
his career and whether or not he can come back
and bounce it back from this is exactly what I mean.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah, And that's like one of the memes that I've
seen going around is like something that finally brings all
men of any religion, of any together, is that they
will use young girls this way. And one of the
things that really frustrates me about this conversation is that, like,
even going back to the Bill Clinton thing, who do
we immediately are like, we got to protect Bill Clinton.

(49:43):
Who are we like, oh, we got to protect Larry Summers. No,
we're not talking about the people who were hurt by this.
You just want to know that this guy's career is
safe and he's fine, He's doing fine.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
He is seventy years old. I don't want to sound ageist.
I just feel like at seventy years old, if you're
this kind of person, maybe we don't need you. Like
what I'm you know, I'm saying like maybe you living
a private life with your wife, who now knows all
about the emails you were sending about your mentee. Maybe
that is fine. Maybe we don't want you to talk
about that. Like it's the biggest tragedy that somebody like

(50:20):
Larry Summers doesn't get to have this role of authority
and this role of influential.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Power both over you know, Carbarde.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Students, but also over all of us, right, because if
you're sitting on the board at open AI, you do
have some power over us. You have you you're making
decisions and you're you're putting out technology.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
That is going to go on to shape all of
our lives.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
And I completely agree with you, Annie, I just really
it bothers me that when the conversation is framed about
what's going to happen to poor Larry Summers, He's gonna
be fine.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
He's gonna be completely fine.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Literally the system was built for him, like for him
to be fine. The fact that he can really be like,
ah my bad, bro, we cool like that literally was
a apology, like yeah, not even like conversation about the
fact that, yes, he was using his authority and power
to go after women that he's like this is this
is definitely normal for me as a professor and president

(51:12):
of a school to try to be like intimidate women
into sleeping with me. And then you know, there are
so many other things, but like the fact that he
can come back and be like, ah my bad. But
you know we're moving on, right, let me talk about economics,
and that seems like okay, that sounds about right. This
is nothing to that doesn't affect you as a person,

(51:33):
so it's fine as a teacher.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
And so when these rules, when people decide that because
they are powerful or influential, these rules don't apply to them.
I think it's really a problem when you get to say, oh,
well I did this, but I to just go on
and continue my lesson for today. No, you don't write.
And I think that they're saying that for a long time,
the rules did not apply to powerful people. And the

(51:56):
question is whether or not we want to live in
a world where that is the case, right? Do we
want to live in a world where someone like this
gets to do things like this and just go on
to finish their economics lesson for the day?

Speaker 2 (52:08):
I say no?

Speaker 3 (52:10):
And so I think as we watch what comes out
of this Department of Justice release with the Epstein files,
I hope we can like resist this idea of using
it to talk about like whether or not someone's career
is going to be impacted or all of that. I
think truly this will likely touch every corner of power, academia, politics, entertainment, tech, finance,

(52:33):
and we should be talking about accountability, right, We should
be talking about like centering the people who were harmed,
regardless of the resumes and power and influence of the
people who were doing the harming. I think that is
the bare minimum and ultimately I don't think the people
shaping the future should be taking advice from a convicted

(52:54):
child sex predator on how to pursue women at their age.
I think that is a whole, totally reasonable standard to set.
And I will die on this hill.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
I don't know. I don't care if it makes me
sound like an instrumist. I will die on the pill.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Oh. I mean, I think a lot of pod bros
Are going to be mad at you about that.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Come at me bros, them and their Pizzagate And now
they're like, this is no information though I know it's because.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
If you if you go back and look at like
QAnon and Pizzagate, it's like you have emails that Hillary
Clinton wrote to Podesta that are like, oh, should we
get some pizza later? And people are like, but if
you replaced pizza with children, think about it then. And
then you have Epstein putting like up for sex crimes
later and it's like, well.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
No, no, no, no no, no, we don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
What that means. That means that's out a context.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Uh yeah, So if the Department of Justice releases these files,
I'm sure we're going to have a lot more to
just but that's where we're at for right now.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
Who Yeah, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are on that list.
Yeah they should also be locked up.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Let's go ahead.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
But yeah, if anybody who is shown to have committed
a crime should be locked up. That's the thing is, like,
I don't want abusers on my team, and I don't
think that I think that we're being sold this idea
of tribalism of like, oh, are you going to care
if it's your favorite entertainer or your favorite you know,

(54:31):
celebrity who gets taken down?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
No, because I don't want that.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
I don't want a person who is a criminal walking free,
even if it's somebody who I happen to.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Be politically aligned with or like enjoy their work.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
I mean, I haven't stopped watching many of shows because
many of the celebrities have disappointed me and have shown
their true color. So putting on my bane list, let's go.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yes, Yes, well we shall see, we shall see what happens,
and I'm sure we will come back discuss this more.
And yeah, thank you so much, Bridget for breaking down
such an intense topic for us.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Uh yeah, you all, even though it's horrifying, you all
made it.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
A little less so yes, and now we might watch
the Social Network together and be kind of horrified about
some realities.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
But I'm excited they're making a sequel.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
They're making a sequel.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Jeremy Strong is gonna play Zuckerberg like a later version
of Zuckerberg in the sequel.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
I know this sounds look it up. I read it.
I read it in Deadline. Look it up.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
Are they gonna have the moments where he and Elon
Musk might fight?

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
I was just talking about that on a podcast. I mean,
say what you will about Mark Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg would drop
Elon Musk like a sack of potato.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Say what you will. You know I hate Zuckerberg.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
I hate them both, absolutely going Zuckerberg on this one.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
I hope they have the scene and when he's on
the wakeboard and he's just tale translation, Yeah, I really
want that to be in the movie and like sad,
like adult midlife crisis music playing. Yeah, that's what I want.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
My partner's mom when we showed her that picture, she
just said, what a dweeb. And I'll never forget it
because I don't think I've ever heard somebody call someone
else Adweb.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Yeah, it's like yes, deweb, but you are correct. You
are correct? Yeah, yeah, flor Well something to look forward to.
Question in the meantime, Bridget where can the good listeners
find you?

Speaker 2 (56:40):
You can listen to my podcast there are No Girls
on the Internet. You can follow me on Instagram at
bridget Ryan DC, on TikTok at bridget Ryan DC, and
on YouTube at there are No Girls on the Internet.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
And definitely go check that out if you haven't already listeners.
If you would like to email us, you can. Our
email is Hello Stuffmannever Told You dot com from Blue Sky,
a podcast and on Instagram and chiktok it stuff I
Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have a
book you can get wherever you can get your books,
and we have new merchandise have com Hero. Thanks as
always too our superroducer Christine or executive ducer by and

(57:11):
contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Stuff Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the heart Radio Apple podcast. Wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,