Making Friends with Loneliness

Guest co-host Tari Harrison drops in to give her tips for making friends with loneliness.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I actually watched it with my parents and they were like, ah,
got a nightmare. Hey, this is Annie and you're listening
to stuff I've never told you. And today on the

(00:24):
podcast we have another guest co host, our good friend
and co worker, Tari Harrison. Thank you so much for
being here, Tari. Hey Annie, thanks for having me. Tarry
is a producer. She's normally behind the scenes, so to speak. Um,
but your pitch is really interesting idea, UM, making friends

(00:45):
with loneliness. Can you explain what that means and why
you wanted to talk about that today? Yes, I can so. UM.
I pitched this topic after reading an article my friend
posted on Facebook about Tracy Ellis Raw, the daughter of
the famous Diana Ross, star of the hit show Blackish

(01:05):
and last year's Glowed and Globe winner for Best Actress,
that also happens to be forty five a Mary and
doesn't have kids or the desire to be married with children.
So Tracy, I'm just gonna refer to Tracy as if
I know her personally. I don't, but maybe one day
I would get to know her on the first name basis,

(01:25):
But for now, just because I want to be short
and concise, I'm not gonna say Tracy Ellis Ross all
the time. It's too much. Anyway, back to the subject
at hand, Tracy in this article, Tracy simply denounced cultural
pressures that society places own women about marriage and babies.
She has his great sense of pride and of singleness

(01:47):
and self love. That to me, I think it's simply admirable.
The more I read within this article, the more it
helped me understand why my friend posted this article. To
begin with, I promised I would use her name, so
when I mentioned my friend, I will refer to her
as my friend. So my friend. She was very adamant

(02:09):
about not wanting to have kids, and I was like,
this is very difficult for me to understand. I'm like,
how can you not want to have kids? Like you're
so great if your nieces and nephews, like she took
them on a Disney cruise and those come cheap. Those
are pretty pricey. And at one point I was like, hey,
can you adopt me? I want to go into Disney cruise.

(02:31):
But anyways, like she's a nurse by profession, like she's
a natural nurture and out of our group of friends,
she's the one who's taking care of everyone and making
sure everyone is good and so um. I have reached
out to her before doing this interview and I asked
her can I share a story? And she said it
was okay, And these are the word she expressed to me,

(02:52):
So I quote for me, the bigger picture isn't and
wasn't always a family and husband. I assume one would
be there, but honestly, self worth and happiness means more
than being someone's wife to me. After talking to my
friend and digesting this article and its entirety, I began
to understand her choice and it even changed my perspective

(03:15):
for my own life. So in June, I turned the
big time to grow up and take life serious age
of thirty, dirty thirty, that's what I call it. I
don't think anyone else calls it that. No, lots of
people call it that good because I also recently turned
thirty and I was very drunkenly broadcasting it at a

(03:38):
work event like dirty thirties coming up from the people
were giving me a strange life. So that makes me
feel better, sorright. It's a big age to me, dirty thirty.
It's like your last hurrah, sort of like paying homage
to a decade of your young wild and three years
of your twenties, and after the celebration is all over
and the alcohol has wore off, you were minded that

(04:00):
thirty is actually the age to embrace adulting and take
life more seriously. It's kind of hard to transition after
twenties you had so much fun. Yeah, our office manager
made it sound like I was never gonna have fun
again when turns and she was like, well, now you're
an adult, And I said, what really? Like, Oh, this

(04:21):
is fun. I wasn't ready for it. I'm still processing it.
You know. She was not that long ago, so I
still kind of feel like I'm in my twenties anyways,
So um, turning this age, you know, it's just really
started making me question things and wondering how do I
look still partying and doing things I would have done?

(04:42):
Asked I was in my twenties and questioning myself and
my living to keep up with society and I aiming
for marriage and children to please my mom? Or am
I doing it because of this fear of being alone?
Or is it something I truly desire to have? So
many questions arise, and that I didn't have the answer

(05:02):
to and still today I don't have the answer too.
Back to Tracy, she stated in the interview with Glamor
magazine that she had to make friends with loneliness. These
words stuck to me like metal on a magnet. I
couldn't get it out of my head, and everything started
to click. My brain would off like ding ding ding ding.
I got it. The more you age, the more you

(05:24):
learn about yourself through out the changes, the many changes
in your life that occur. It's really about finding self love.
So I think that's my take on making friends with loneliness.
It all draws to knowing and loving yourself for getting
everyone's expectations and living your life for you and not
for someone else. Tracy stress the importance of knowing the

(05:48):
difference between solitude and loneliness, because there is a clear
difference that we will get into later. But to make
friends with loneliness is in my pay in a choice
to enjoy doing things alone and to truly embrace that
time with yourself as you partake in activities that you
would normally do with another counterpart, value your time with

(06:11):
self by schedule it. It's into your daily routines and
simply learning to appreciate those moments, to have me time,
all me time. Yeah, we were talking a little bit
about this when we were planning this episode, and um,
I think you and I have a lot of similarities
in our in our family. Um, and how they kind

(06:33):
of react to this idea. Um, don't you You get
a lot of questions about this from your family? Sorry,
you don't you have like a reality TV story? My
mom's gonna kill me? Yes, I did. I think We'll see.
I'm originally from Portland, Oregon and liveing in Atlanta, George.
I'm all the way across the country, and so every
time I go back home for the holidays, I'm getting acts.

(06:56):
Who am I seeing? Who am I dating? Even at
one point my grandmother she was trying too. When she
was alive. She was trying to set me up with
a pastor, God bless her heart, and in the right place.
But um, the way I enjoy cocktails, that would have
never worked. But it was m the reality show. So

(07:17):
my mom, I don't know she was serious or she
was playing, but I think if I would have done it,
she would have been happy. But she wanted me to
go on Fox's Love Connection show. Have you seen it.
I have not seen that. I've seen it. I actually
watched it with my parents and they were like, got

(07:38):
an idea, you should be on it, and I'm like,
I would never ever, Like this is the most, Like
I can't believe I'm actually on Smitty right, this is connection.
I didn't want to tell you, but this is the
most I've ever shared my personal life, especially in regards
to dating. So me going on a reality show, no,

(08:01):
that would never happen. Never. So um yeah, my mom
she wanted me on that show, and I said, no,
I would never. So yeah, even though I know my
mom's um hopes and whatnot, for me getting on that
show was all in the right place because you know,
her and my dad, they've been married since forever, so

(08:25):
many years, thirty plus years. I was tracked. But she
wants me to be as happy as they are. And
I'm sure like if my grandma was here today, she
would have wanted me as happy as her and my
grandfather were. Um. But last year I made a postal Facebook.

(08:45):
I was stating that my Christmas gift came early because
my mom stopped questioning about my dating life. And so
I've always been one that's just been career focus, like
school and finding my place and the entertainment feel has
always been my priority and I will always say it's
the right one comes along, then it's meant to be.

(09:06):
But I don't really feel like I have control of that,
and I don't have the power to say I want
this awesome, loyal guy that has everything I want to.
I wanted a man to appear because I don't think
he really exists. Like to go on and on, but
I really enjoy my time alone and I fear that

(09:27):
being with the same person every day will become boring.
And I know I will want my own space even
if we share a house. I'm gonna need a woman's
cave for sure. But that's outside of the point. I
know my famili's, you know, I just know they want
me to be happy, regardless of which, and they still
want this whole family structure thing. Yeah. You touch on

(09:50):
a lot of interesting things there, because um, I to
value my alone time. But I wonder I read summer
recently that more and more people are like living like
they're married, but they're living in separate houses or separate
I love that there you go, so that there are options,
there are options for you maybe. UM. I get questions

(10:13):
about this all the time, and I'm sure they're not
meant to make me feel like an incomplete person, but
they do like I'm missing something. I haven't found this
piece that I need and I was thinking about because
I'm always thinking about movies. I guess, um the line

(10:34):
you completely, it's so much. It does because saying I
was incomplete without you, I don't know. UM. To me,
it makes it seem like it says, Okay, so my
life was not full before meeting you, and to me,
that's kind of whack. If I was ever married somebody,

(10:58):
I will want to say you and hance my life
because now I have someone to share the bills with,
or even someone nice enough to pay them all. That
would be great, even though I don't think that person
is real, but that would be so great. Um. But yeah,
I don't want to say, oh, my life was like
you complete me. That's just giving way too too much

(11:19):
for me. I don't know. Yeah, I like that. I
like you enhance my life. You enhance better. I'll keep
your round. But yeah, I would think I could complete
my own life, you know, regardless if I didn't, if
I had or didn't have that other person. You know,
that's what you're living forward to. You're constantly working every

(11:42):
as every year progressed to find ways to complete yourself.
Mm hmm. Yeah. I live alone and I'm not dating anybody,
but I do have a lot of close friendships, and
I would say that my life is pretty full. And
in fact, most people I know in serious relationships that

(12:04):
they don't do as much as I do, which makes
sense because if you've got somebody that you're cool with
just staying in and hanging out with, you probably do
that more often. Um. And it does sting a bit
when friends of mine start dating someone new, and I
feel a little bit like an old toy that they
just put away on the shelf because now they have
this new It's terrible. I have a friend I can

(12:27):
tell every time she starts dating someone new because all
of a sudden, it's like you don't your silence. Yeah,
I hate that, and it's like, Hey, the times that
I've been in a relationship, I stayed by your side.
I was I never Dutch your calls. I made sure
I answered your calls. I gave you the same amount
of time as when I was single. For in when

(12:50):
I was in a relationship, so but not everyone's wired
like me, so I have to give them a pass.
It's true. And yeah, once once kids get in the mix,
a kid, well then yeah it makes sense. But it
does hurt a little bit, right, And it's kind of
sad because you know you're saying goodbye to this part
of your friendship where it was it was I guess easier, um,

(13:13):
And it's nobody's fault. That's just kind of a natural progression.
But it does, Yeah, it does sting a bit. Um.
And with so much of society structured around this idea
of the nuclear family of success being the family and
the house, it can feel like I at least sometimes

(13:34):
I get the feeling that people think I have not
succeeded in life because I don't have those things. Recently,
I was at a friend's wedding and I caught the bouquet, which,
in case you don't know, means you're next in line
to get me. You're planning your wedding now, yes, if
you've got wedding plans. Well, a lot of people came

(13:57):
up to me after, and I got to say most
of them were like old dudes, but they came up
to me after and asked, well, who is the lucky guy?
And I would say, nope, no one, not really in
the cards. And I got so many follow up questions,
why not? How can this be? You're a fine looking lady,
I'm sure you could get somebody, to the point that

(14:17):
my friend who got married, he came up and he
was like, are these people hounding hear? It's just funny
how much I guess this is what we're told we
should be moving towards. And when we were talking about
this earlier, UM, I sort of got to thinking maybe

(14:38):
it's generational because my mom got married when she was
really young, like a twenty or twenty one, and me
that that's before you have a chance to have those
years where you're growing up and figuring out who you
are as an adult, because if I look back at
twenty that was a different person. I changed so much
in the decade that is the an ease. And now

(15:01):
that she and my dad have grown apart, she's sort
of having to learn that stuff, that who am I
kind of stuff. And it's been really interesting for me
because she'll call and ask for advice on what should
I do. I don't know what to do with my time,
and I'll ask, well, what do you like to do?
And she didn't have a response ready at first, And
when we kind of started talking about it, um, she

(15:25):
she felt like the things she liked to do with
things that you shouldn't do alone, especially as a woman.
She loves hiking. She didn't think she should go hiking
alone as a woman. And I gave her the info
for a hiking club that I know, and now she's
gone on several hikes with them, and she's gone on
some by herself. She started texting me a lot of pictures.

(15:47):
You know. Good to you, um. And there are still
things that are far more acceptable to do with a
significant other or or even another person. A friend of
mine canceled last in it last Friday, I think, a
couple of Fridays ago before Harry Potter Live Orchestra showing
of the Chamber of Secrets. So I had to go

(16:08):
by myself, and I definitely got some looks. I don't
think that was in my head. I think people were like,
this woman, is that a Harry Potter event on a Friday? Tire?
But I wanted to go because sometimes you have to
do that. You can't just wait out for somebody else

(16:28):
to do the things you enjoy, like um, for instance,
I remember there was this big movie premiere for Preciures.
I was wanting to see. It's so bad. I heard
great reviews about it, and every time I try to
connect with one of my friends, they were like, oh,
I can't go this day, and I'm like, I don't
want to wait. I don't want to wait, like I

(16:49):
want to see it now. And so usually I would
never ever go see a movie um the premiere weekend alone,
but I said, forget it, I'm gonna do it because
I need to be a part of this conversation. So
I went alone and it was it was kind of
weird because it was just me. I didn't have anyone

(17:09):
wants to talk to. Wow um trailers for that the
movies were, um right. I do enjoy trailers, but some
of them I'll talk through. But I didn't have anybody
to talk to. Luckily, I could just like scroll through
my phone. So like places that I go by myself,
initially too, I'm on my phone and that kind of
helps transition me into like, Okay, I'm there, I'm alone.

(17:33):
It's okay, I have company on my phone. Yeah, yeah,
having a phone being alone an event can be a lifesaver,
just because it gives you something to do. But after
a while I do start to feel like I have
checked everything and people, I'm still alone. The other day,

(17:56):
on the other day, it was like months ago, I
was at an event it by myself. I didn't know anybody,
and it was a really nice event, and I just
felt like I was the if you typed into Google
sad single lady image that would have popped up. But

(18:16):
I actually ended up meeting a lot of cool people
that night, which is an argument to make about, you know,
just being social and putting your phone away. But yeah, yeah,
what what I like about? Like when I read an
article UM for strategies for like dealing with just being

(18:37):
alone and like your loneliness UM and being comfortable with that,
she says she has like a toolbox that she uses
that she would go through, and I wanted to suggest
some of my toolboxes of the tools I'll pick out
for the times of when I'm making friends with my loneliness. UM.

(19:00):
So Netflix is definitely on there because I love movies
and music for good vibes and my addiction to Facebook
is among them. In my toolbox. I'm like, so my hammer,
what I would refer to as my hammer, screwdriver, wrenched
like those important tools. It would be my TV, phone

(19:21):
and laptop. Of course, those are my companions at a
day when I have time to be lonely and I'm
not as busy, which doesn't really come often, but when
it does, um, those three like literally get me through anything.
So I sleep with my phone like up to my laptop,
and I date my TV. It's like the perfect relationship

(19:44):
because I always need to be entertained, Like being board
is traumatizing for me. I cannot stand it. So you
should have a wedding ceremony where you in the TV
lockdown there. I mean they did have one of those
weird marriages. Somebody married their iPhone. You're right, I forgot

(20:08):
about that. Well. See, I will not be that extreme.
I will not marry my iPhone and I would not
marry myself. Do you people do that? I don't need it.
You talk to your your phone and your computer. No,
I don't want to talk to Siri. You don't talk
to SI. Talk to SI. No, I talked to my

(20:32):
phone sometimes. It's more like when I drop it. I apologize.
Oh um, so I thought we could define loneliness here
because we are talking about the difference between loneliness and
solitude and being lonely. So the dictionary definition is affected

(20:54):
with characterized by or causing a depressing feeling of being alone, lonesome,
destitute of sympathetic or friendly companionship, intercourse support, et cetera.
But that is different than solitude or just being by yourself.
You don't have to be lonely when you're alone, if
that makes sense. And this brings us to that Tracy

(21:17):
Ellis Ross interview. But first it brings us to a
quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back,
thank you sponsor. Okay, so sorry, why don't you tell
us about this Tracy Ellis Ross interview? Well, pretty much

(21:40):
in this interview, um, Tracy is just talking about her
life at being forty five years old and not married
without kids, and how she's successful, but yet people are
still questioning her like when she's going to have kids,
like as if her life hasn't really equated to my
because she still doesn't have kids in a family, which sacs,

(22:04):
that's not cool, like and stopping this whole shaming women
for the fact if they don't have that, and she's um.
I think it was the two thousand seventeen Glamour Summit.
She had gave a speech pretty much about how to
make friends with loneliness and just loving yourself, finding yourself,

(22:26):
work worth in enjoying every aspect of yourself, and just
being comfortable with not having a fit in society standards.
M hmm, yeah, it's it was a great interview, and
to me it's both sad and um comforting because she's

(22:48):
obviously done a lot. She's successful, super successful, like I
didn't even know she was a doctor. Yeah, And to
have people still assume that she's not quite successful, or
that she's not complete, or that her life is missing
this thing. I guess, no matter what level of fame

(23:08):
and success you achieve, at least at this point in
our society for women, they're still going to be this, Well,
when are you gonna settle down and have kids? Yeah?
And someone, because she stated that someone at fifty two
years old told her it's never too late. I adopted

(23:29):
and I was like, wow, that's pretty messed up. But
what what I don't like is like if a guy
says I'm not trying to man bash here, but if
a guy says I want to be a bachelor for life,
like he gets a nod. But if a female says that,
they're like, oh that's kind of sad. Yeah, yeah, it's

(23:49):
a different standard for sure. Um. And she she spoke
about in the article well meaning people telling her yeah,
it's never too late, or like you need to give
your life meaning and she said quote as if all
that I have done and who I am doesn't matter.
And to sort out all of her mixed feelings about this,

(24:11):
she decided to write about it in a journal and
the first thing she wrote was my life is mine
and just writing that, the sentiment behind it moved her
to tears, which was really powerful because when when you
say that my life is mine, it just puts things
more into perspective of Okay, this is what I want.
You start thinking more like, Okay, maybe I don't want kids,

(24:34):
or maybe I do, like who knows, Like for me
in my own life, UM, I know I don't want
to have kids because I felt my friends bellies while
they were pregnant and I was disgusted. Wow, that's what
I haven't heard like. It seems like aliens in there,
and I'm like, I don't know, I don't I'm like,

(24:55):
I still seem so immature on that matter, because I'm like,
I don't know if I will something growing in me.
And I was like, if I did have kids, I
have to be with somebody rich because I'm not rich,
because we would need a s arrogant because I don't
think I could carry a baby. Well, you can always
adopt Tory. But see, I'm selfish. I want if I

(25:17):
do have a kid, I want the kid to look
like me. Okay, okay, that's it. Just to have a kid,
to see what a miniature version of me looks like.
You got, You got a lot of layers to this.
I have so many layers. Um, if we go go
back to the article, away from a fear of alien

(25:38):
babies growing inside of you, uh, chasey Ellis Ross said,
I have had to really make friends with loneliness and
know the difference between choiceful solitude and lonely. I find
comfort in being able to name it, to say I'm
feeling lonely. Then to have a tribe of people I
feel safe enough with to share this is how I feel. Yeah,

(26:01):
it is, it is and we all feel lonely. Um,
this is not to say that Darry and I are
somehow immune we've achieved some kind of anti lonely bubbles
if we haven't, but it's good to be able to
recognize it and know the difference between being alone and
being lonely. And this kind of brings us to something

(26:23):
that I know a lot of you listeners have concerns
about our questions about, and that is making friends as
an adult. Yeah, it is, and we've done a couple
of episodes on it. Actually research bears out some of
what Tracy Ellis Ross is talking about here, because the
mid twenties is around the time people start losing friends

(26:46):
and it's largely because of settling down and starting families
that thing we were talking about earlier, or people figuring
out who they're close friends are and focusing more on them.
So kind of trimming your friend group, I guess. And
I feel that at least in my case, I'm very
lucky and that I have more friends than ever. Some

(27:07):
maybe that is changing, is all of these goal posts
are kind of moving later in life. People are getting
married later, they're having kids later, So maybe you're making
these stronger friendships when you're more of an adult and
you know, everyone has a better sense of who they are.
But I don't know, I don't know. I think for me,

(27:31):
it's like I've been categorizing friends. So I'm like, Okay,
this is the kind of friend I have. Like I
try to set people for who they are, so I'm
like some people am like, Okay, this is an associated friend.
This is not the person I'll tell all my my
deep dark secrets too. But we can go to the
bar together and have a great conversation. But you know,

(27:54):
everyone has out of my friend groups, like I have
levels to them. So um, bringing on new people, Like
I'm open to meet new friends, but I just put
them in like a category like Okay, you are this
kind of friend that I could share these these tails with,
or are you this kind of friend that I could
go to this kind of events with. But um, yeah,

(28:15):
like I would say, like when I was in undergrad,
it was kind of hard making new friends because I
just didn't trust people. I'm like, oh, what if they're
shady or do something kind of trifle, And it was
it was hard. But the older you get, the more
you you're able to see personalities and see um behaviors
as which you'll feel like, Okay, I can trust this person,

(28:38):
I could let them in. Yeah. And the reason that
we're talking about this is because in regards to not
being single, making friends with loneliness and important aspect of
that is having that tribe that Tracey Ellis Ross was
describing are that friend group, that support group, whatever it is. UM.

(29:00):
She talks about an article how she's the one that's there.
She's like, if you need her for anything, she she
will be there for you. And I think that is
a very fulfilling thing to be, to be that friend.
I feel like I'm also the one if you text me,
I'll probably be there if you're like Annie, there's an

(29:21):
event tonight. And it is fulfilling. But then on the
same note, because I feel like I'm that friend too,
it's also exhausting because when you need that friend, they're
not there. Right. It's like one of my close friends.
I love her to death, Like she's one of my
friends that are called sister UM. To this point, well,

(29:44):
she's like in a relationship. It's like what I call her,
she doesn't answer, but she expects me to answer every
time she calls me. And so it's like now lately,
I'm like, Okay, I'm going to treat her as she
treats me, Like I'm not going to always be available
because I think a lot of my friends they just

(30:05):
know like, oh, they can count on me, like I'm
so dependable, like tar is always going to be available
when we need here. And now I'm just like I'm
going to stop doing that. Yeah, and that's good. You
wanna equitable friendship you don't want I think it's called ah,
it's some kind of vampire term. I should know it.
I love vampires. Um, yeah, but you don't want it

(30:27):
to be one sided. If that's not what a good
friendship is. One of the the biggest things that people
will throw in your face when you tell them you're
a okay with being single. You're no rush to find
anybody is who is going to take care of you
when you get older? What if you fall and you

(30:49):
can't get up, Tari, I'm going to use the alert
get get life alert. There you go. There, you're not
an answer of this show. I will have life alert.
I like that you've already you've got it planned out.
That commercial I literally cried, it's finny I know you're

(31:18):
not supposed to laugh at that, but that commercial is hilarious. Well,
the actor wasn't great. We're making fun of what we're
gonna be one day. No, I wouldn't speak that into existence.
That will not happen for my life, hopefully not. I
cannot have that bad karma. But no, that commercial is hilarious,

(31:39):
and I haven't seen it a long time, but you
mentioned it has tears running down my eyes, you know.
But yeah, friends have told me that they're like, oh,
you know, who's gonna come visit you in a retirement home?
Like you don't have kids? And um, they just want
to scare you with that whole loneliness, like you're gonna

(32:01):
be all alone? Like one is the loneliest number? Did
I say that? Sounk? No? I want to go for it. Yeah, people,
I like to ask questions like that, who's going to
take care of you, who's going to pay for the
retirement home? Who's going to call you? Who's going to

(32:21):
be sad sitting by the phone. I guess I just
hope that I could be like the Golden girls. What's
the what was the most outgoing one? I've never seen
a golden girl. Oh mg, well, I want to be
the um cougar one one. Okay, there's a cougar one
forgot her day. You were talking about how there's not

(32:45):
really a male equivalent for cougar. Yes, when in our
language there isn't. It's interesting, but normally the depiction you
see of older single women in the media is um.
It's one that's to be feared or pitied. It's the
crazy cat lady, the jealous hag, the murderous which we

(33:06):
talked a little about this in Our Mother Destroyer Episode two.
Society's fears around single women, but this trope doesn't reflect reality.
More and more of women are choosing to live alone.
The majority of the twelve point one million adults living
alone in the sixty plus range are women. And there's
all kinds of reasons for this. It could be divorced,

(33:28):
it could be widowhood, but you don't one you don't
hear about is choice. More and more women are choosing
to live alone. Eric Kleinbert literally wrote the book on this,
and it's called Going Solo. The Extraordinary Rise and Surprising
Appeal of Living Alone. In his research, he found that
folks who live alone are more likely to reach out
and socialize and build strong support groups. He wrote, clearly,

(33:52):
contrary to popular believe, for more of us, living alone
is a choice, not a sentence, and the percentage of
folks eight five are older living in retirement homes has
dropped at the same time from in nineteen eighty five
to nineteen percent in n Researchers speculate this might be
because of declining disability rates, or increased options for home care,

(34:15):
or both. And yet another study out of the UK
found that single people live more active lives than married
folks because they are less likely to skip out on
physical activities they're signed up for. Married couples were less
likely to exercise on fifty minutes per week, which I
believe is the recommended amount in the United States. Yeah,

(34:35):
the thing is you can be in a marriage, have kids,
all that stuff that we've held up as the norm
as what you're striving for for so long in our
society and still feel lonely. You can be single and
not feel lonely or feel lonely. We all experience loneliness
at some point or another. A study out of the
University of California from twelve found that out of the

(34:57):
one thousand sixty four adults over sixty surveyed reported feelings
of loneliness, and of that sixty two were married. So yeah,
we're all feeling kind of alone sometimes. Another study found
that in older folks, when blood pressure rises and reaction

(35:17):
to some types of stress, loneliness accentuates that response it
makes it worse. Barbara Dane, who is a ninety one
year old jazz musician, described her observations of aging and
loneliness like this. As you get older, you see the
world writing you off, so you tend to become passive
and think, I don't want to bother anybody. You lose

(35:38):
contact with your own kind, your tribe, and before you
know it, you're feeling bad. It's kind of like a
self fulfilling prophecy. Your eyes start to fasten on the
sunset and you start walking toward it. And that quote
really resonated with me. Um, I have to my own detriment,

(35:59):
and I think a lot of us do this. I
get it in my head that I don't want to
annoy anybody, that they're better off without me. Yeah. Yeah,
but it's just like a we're all insecure, right, And
and then on the other end of that conversation, my friend,
who I'm trying to not annoy with my presence thinks, well,

(36:20):
she doesn't want to hang out with me. So it's
just miscommunication and it's impacted some of my friendships, and
so I try to be less insecure. Yes, you're overthinking it.
You have to get out your head. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

(36:43):
And speaking of not overthinking it, we do have some
advice for you. But first we have one more quick
break for a word from our sponsor m hm, and
we're back. Thank you sponsor. And we do have some advice, um,

(37:07):
some advice on dealing with solitude. I personally used to
tell my friends that I'm thinking of one friend in particular,
and she just wasn't okay being single. She always had
to be dating. And I would tell her, you need
to learn to be okay with being alone by yourself

(37:28):
and figure out why you're not okay with that, because
I think if you can get to the heart of that,
then you can work on it and you can find
ways to be okay being by yourself to make that
time better. And I think that that in turn will

(37:49):
make your relationships better. If you are this complete person,
if you're not waiting for someone to complete you, then
I think that will be it will lead to a
healthier life for you, in or not in a relationship.
So that's one I have. Um. If you're looking to

(38:10):
make friends, I'm a big believer of shifting your mindset
to be more about this kind of thing, more about
making friends with yourself and with loneliness. And I know
it sounds kind of trite, Well what do you like
to do? Get you know, ask yourself, get to the
bottom of what makes you happy, what are you interested in,
what do you want to learn about, and then pursue

(38:32):
those things, join a group or a club that does
those things, and then you already have that shared interests.
You don't have to worry about planning or scheduling or
finding a place, so that pressure has taken off of you.
So I think that's a that's a good way. For
the technically savvy, there are apps and websites that are

(38:52):
all about finding friends or social events. For single people
not looking to date anybody, there are so many options.
You've got Bumblebee, f Tender, Social, Meet my Dog for
those who want to meet up with other dog owners
at LEO. I don't know why I said it that way.
It's a t l e O for sports lovers and athletes.

(39:12):
Um So, if there's something you're interested in, there are
a lot of options for you. And I think a
lot of us are interested in it because in the
first week bumble Bff came out, there were a million swipes.
So I think you know, technology can help you in this.
It can also hurt you, but it can help you.
Do you have any any advice? Sorry for making friends

(39:34):
with loneliness. I would say go out your comfort zone,
like do the stuff that you would normally do with friends,
like I guess, like going to a concert, or like
for you, going on Harry Potter ride. Say I didn't
mention this in the episode. This ride I'm determined to ride.
It's tied just through the under the bus. It's fun.

(40:00):
It's fine. You have to have someone four ft are
shorter with you or you can't ride the ride. And surprise, surprise,
people aren't super enthused to let you borrow their kids
to ride this ride. But I will one day find
a way. It's a Jurassic Park ride, to be clear,
to ride that ride. But yeah, we've talked about on

(40:22):
this show before. Doing things like that, like traveling alone
and how rewarding it can be. Um, going to the
movies alone is the one that I love. Um, I
just saw Halloween by myself and don't tell Ramsey because
we promised we'd see it together, but I had an
opportunity and I really wanted to go. I've been waiting

(40:43):
for weeks. So there. Yeah, I think that is good advice, right,
And I would say we're making it sound like we're
just promoting being single. Yes, but no, no, no kidding,
I'm kidding. I think that. Yeah, it's a valid lifestyle

(41:06):
and we should treat it as such. People are complete people.
They can be human beings outside of relationship, women, especially
in this context. But ah, make yeah, make friends, make
friends with loneliness and love every part of you, finding
your worth and just enjoying being you and doing the

(41:28):
things that you love the most. That's trying to put
up there. Yeah, and I I we've heard from a
lot of you who have been experimenting more with doing
things by yourself that are it is outside of your
comfort zone and your adventures. We would love to keep
hearing more of those stories. And I love One listener

(41:49):
described it as luxurious, being able to do things alone.
I think she had in her case, she had a
family and kids, and not that she I'm sure you
love them, but just that having that that moment to
to be by yourself and to appreciate at that loneliness.
And I think for so long we've kind of made

(42:11):
loneliness the villain. But it doesn't have to be. It
doesn't have to be like a super sad thing. It doesn't. No,
it's fun. You can take it from two single ladies
on the town. It's fun, and this whole episode is
we need to give it right to our parents. So
thank you so much for joining us. Sorry, thanks for

(42:33):
letting me ramble. I appreciate it. Yes, anytime, anytime you've
got a topic that you want to to pitch to me,
I am all ears and we would love to hear
from you listeners. How do you make friends with loneliness?
You can email us at mom Stuff at house to
forks dot com, or you can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at stuff I've

(42:56):
Never Told You. Thanks as always to our producer Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening.