December 8, 2025 • 26 mins
Recently, there has been a lot of back and forth about going no contact in typically family relationships. Anney and Samantha break down what's going on, some generational divides and some possible driving factors.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I never told you protection if I heart with you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another holiday Monday, Mini, and it's not
a happy one. I guess I should put this in.
I think this is just a conversation. We've had many
conversations like this, so not necessarily trigger warning. We're not
doing anything deep and dark. But you know, we know
holidays are stressful, so if family talking about family is stressful,
(00:42):
you can save this one. I'm gonna say that. And
today is December fourth, twenty five aspect we're recording it.
So I just want to put this timestamp because we
know this is ever changing in conversation, and I feel
like we're taking terms like no contact, narcissism and all
of that and really having a field day on who
(01:03):
or what that is talking about and who's allowed to
use these terms. Weirdly, I know, but it changes. So
with that, yeah, there's a timestamp, but we are talking
about no contact. So it's the holidays again, and that
comes with a lot of mixed feelings, emotions, stress, all
the above, and interestingly, people seem to have a lot
of thoughts on going no contact with families again, especially
(01:26):
since it's the holiday times, and for clarification, I guess
just to put it out that no contact is pretty
much just cutting all communications off with someone that you
feel is not beneficial or toxic to your help and
your well being. So you know, you may be seeing
it as I'm going no contact with my mother. That's
the most that I've seen or my family member. And
(01:48):
we've talked about how the politics and political conversations has
really kind of heightened that level of need to need
to really separate or go low contact is another thing
that we've talked about. I've said that word a couple
of years ago as well, I feel like I need
to do this or it's going to ruin our relationship period.
(02:09):
So we've talked about this a lot in that context,
but there's seem to be big creators or big celebrities
who are talking about this. And for those of you
who aren't as online as I am, because I have problems,
but anyway, there's been some big names who have decided
to take this time to have their own opinions be
(02:31):
spread about, including Oprah Rimfrey and Mel Robbins. So if
you don't know who Mel Robins is I feel like
you're in the podcast interest. You like podcasts, you probably
know who this is. But she is a best selling
author and podcaster with lots of self help books, and
I believe she has a law degree, so it's not
like she's I thought maybe she was a counselor at
(02:51):
one point in time. No, she just has a lot
of opinions, which is fine. And I think a lot
of people follow her because they really liked some of
her contact. And I think she's one of those people
who says you can't change other people, which is very true.
Which is very true. Okay, Yeah, so back to this.
(03:12):
Robins actually wrote an article for the New York Times
opinion section called life is too Short to Fight with
your Family, where she seems to be saying to children
to let things go and just be okay. So I
did not read the full piece to be very transparent,
but man, it is all over my feed about her
(03:34):
comments and conversations in this and it is interesting in
that level because I've seen a lot of whom I
would put Gen X boomer generations who are like, you
need to let things go, You're being too sensitive. You
need to give everybody chances repeatedly. This is kind of
the conversation we've always had to our detriment. And I
(03:56):
say this as a millennial slash gen X in between.
I don't know what else to say it. I'm an
elder millennial exllennial as some people would say. So I
feel like I have a little bit of a grasp
on both in that level again from the south to country,
and I feel like that makes me more X gen
X just with that anyway. So again I think I'm
(04:18):
oversimplifying in that when I say it like that that
she's just like, Eh, let it go. The people, you know,
you just need to be okay with them. They're never
going to change. But many people have a lot of
feelings and have spoken a lot about what's going on.
So this was one from one or article written by
John Pavelowitz in his sub Stack, which he talks about
(04:40):
it's hard to be in contact with racist family members,
so he essentially says this, But in this piece he
says Robin warns against the dangers of distancing ourselves from
those whose beliefs differ from our own. She warns that
in the long run, creating a relational and physical proximity
between ourselves and loved ones we disagree with will likely
have a devastating impact on our happiness and well being,
(05:05):
it continues the let them theory author, So the let
them is like you have to let them be done. Essentially,
I think the let them theory author advises readers to
bear with the faults and failings of family members, saying
that the key is quote learning how to accept people
as they are, sometimes in spite of who they are.
And though he tries to be understanding, I think he
(05:27):
really comes back with like, don't get me wrong, we
do need to try to get along. It's not like
you being immediately like I'm done with you can be
harmful for yourself as well. But he also makes this point,
but at some point it's perfectly acceptable and admirable to
cut ties with people with whom we've come to realize
(05:49):
we are morally incompatible, not just for our mental, emotional,
and physical help, but because in doing so, we will
be emancipated from the shame that tells us we owe
anyone proximity or permanence. When liberated in that way, we
can fully advocate for the vulnerable and oppressed and marginalized
instead of pretending they don't exist just so we can
(06:09):
have a nice dinner. So there's a lot in that
context because I feel like, again, this is the older
group of people or the very center leaning people who
is like, I'm center, I don't I'm not on non
political Why can't we just let this be why you
have to make this a big deal type of thing.
It's that same level of conversation that we had with
(06:34):
when we talk about women not dating Republicans. We talk
about women saying we will not date you if you
are in this pipeline, like this kind of simplification of like,
but there, you're just pushing out people that needs you
the most, as if those responsibilities are placed back on
to you. Right. And Oprah apparently has some opinions on
(06:56):
it too, calling this move an epidemic going no contact.
This revelation that people children are going no contact is
an epidemic. It's a sad epidemic in the world. So
in November, Obrah decided to do a groundbreaking she called
it Groundbreaking show episode where she features parents and children
that talk about their relationships and how it led to
no contact. I don't think she brought in the parent
(07:19):
child specifically from like one family, but like different people
who went either no contact or people went no contact
with them and they talked about their feelings. And now
again I will also relate I did not watch all
of this. This is all like I give clips and
coming back into like, ha, this is a lot of conversation,
and I think her back and forth is again she
(07:40):
does try to get a whole picture of this, but
also comes back into oh, this is kind of sad
though type of conversation. So in her interview she talks
about statistics and she actually posted this as an advertisment
in her Instagram for the episode, she says around one
third of Americans have cut off off ties from their family.
(08:01):
Once considered taboo going no contact with their family is
now being openly discussed by people of all ages. People
are now redefining what healthy boundaries look like in family dynamics.
So she is very like, okay, it seems like all
could good and well, and then it comes into again
her questioning things and talking to parents and giving like
(08:22):
parents like free, uh, I guess free time to say.
I saw one woman come in and talking about how
why is it so bad for my son or my children?
To have no contact with me, but I can't do
the same. I get villainized if I were to go
no contact with my children. People have thoughts, People have thoughts.
It also was said that she actually chose her husband
(08:44):
over her son at one point, which we've talked about
this in this dynamics of like especially like family annihilation
type of stuff where we see step children, not because
like stepparents are awful, but like not having the good relationship,
things having happening between the two of them, children being
murdered by step parents or vice versa, like these levels
and then history like certain things come along being like,
(09:05):
oh this was always rocky, this is a thing, and
not that we're going to come back to blaming mothers
for all this or not, because there's so many layers
to how mothers are villainized. But in this level of
a conversation, she was specifically talking about how she put
her son out because she would not listen to her
husband's rules after the fact of not defending her husband
(09:25):
when he came in and started being physically violent, something
along those lines. So there's a lot to that, but
again a whole different level, and people were like, you know,
because children did not choose to be born. Was one
of the big conversations. I shouldn't have to pay for
your sins in order to, you know, to be raised
in a way. Blah blah blah. But then also in
(09:47):
that same episode, I did see clips of one man
who came in talking about how he didn't understand what
he did wrong. He didn't want to go to therapy,
but his daughter was willing to go to therapy with
him if he come back to contact. And when he did,
he really discovered a lot about himself and had to
let go of some ideals, like thinking that she was
a teenager when she was an adult and treating her
like a teenager, and how that doesn't work anymore, and
(10:09):
like all these things, and we were like learning a
lot and coming back to having a beautiful relationship. But
he was apparently one of few in being able to
see this, but like it have some of those points
of views in that conversation. Interestingly about Oprah, because I
(10:33):
don't know many people know the history of Oprah. I
don't remember this. I'm not gonna lie because this was
before my time. My mother loved us some Oprah, though
loved some Oprah. One viewer actually who is a family
relationship coach pointed out that it could be said Oprah
was the beginning of such a phenomenon. So this is
from a mom and mea article they write. Tania, who
(10:54):
was the therapist or the coach, claimed Oprah's amplification of
family estrangement started in the nineties and has continued to
the present day. She referenced articles about toxic family dynamics
on Oprah's website look at the chow. She wasn't neutral,
she wasn't asking questions. She amplified the very messaging that
contributed to millions of parents and children walking away from
(11:15):
one another, she argued. The relationship coach, who has personal
experience with exchangement, questioned why Oprah was shocked by the
quote sudden heartbreaking epidemic when she had a quote hand
in shaping.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
It Ah, and this apparently rattled Oprah because Oprah responded
she said in a comment, happy to have a conversation
about it, but not on a real We'll have my
producer contact you if you're interested.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Oprah doesn't comment. Yeah, she never has to. So she
really felt that one because she does. She does have
a whole history her mom was not great for her
and really abusive, and she just had it, had enough,
and so she went no contact essentially. I don't think
it was called no contact obviously at that point in time,
but like she kind of shaped that. So this creator,
(12:03):
this coach was like a, uh, you are grifting at
this point. You created this, and now you wanted to
ask about this, which Oprah's influence into what we see
today is alarming. That's a whole different conversation, but I
thought that was super interesting in that and the question
is a much bigger when we talk about childhood trauma
(12:25):
and family responsibility, and it's interesting turn of like you're
going to regret this and the such that that kind
of conversation. If you do this, if you can't like
close no content, you're going to regret things. You're not
going to make things up, You're going to kind of
that whole forgiving And we've talked about this someone who's dying,
like do they deserve that forgiveness? Are you supposed to?
(12:45):
Are you all these things? It's kind of that same
look in psychology today had some thoughts too, like they
were very ready to go. So the article was in
response to the Oprah episode like she the counselor who
was a licensed social worker, talked about this, and she
writes this, also, it's easy to forget that our parents
are people too. People make mistakes. We are not born
(13:08):
with a gene for being a good parent. Show me
a self centered parent, and I'll show you someone who
probably didn't have great role models or lots of warm
nurturing either. Naturally, this doesn't excuse herful behaviors. Nothing does.
But when one's lens is compassionate and combined with the
toolkit of navigating really really challenging conversations, there's truly a
possibility for change. Relationships can improve over time, with work
(13:32):
and sometimes with help Encouraging complete withdrawal from relationships leads
to nothingness, and nothingness leads to nothing changing. Again, this
comes back into the whole like we're going back to
why won't you give them a chance? You have to
help them change, putting the responsibility back on the children,
(13:53):
which we've seen too much of. We've talked about this
without Prunification episodes. We've talked about this with any of
the trauma episodes. I'm sure Kristen and Caroline talked about
them in the narcissist episodes that they've had before. There's
a lot to be said when it's like, but if
they don't change and the outcome is just continue pain,
(14:15):
what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I think most people don't go no contact after like
one instance.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It is a lot and you've probably spoken about it
and it still goes on. So it's not like you're
being a fragile, delicate Oh they've hurt my feelings this
work time, they didn't give me one to continual behavior
that hurts you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We have situations where divorce parents may have some things
up and like like what are these things? Like there's
there can be manipulation and things and circumstances that we
don't always know, but absolutely one hundred between by an
adult child who is probably twenty thirty forties who finally
decide they cannot do this anymore. This has been years
(15:04):
of something, This has been years of reasoning, and finally
doing so takes a lot more strength because oftentimes that
means you've been cut off by a whole section of yourself.
Like that's painful to lose. Even when we talk about
like traumatized abused victims, child abused victims I have seen
are more likely to try to go back to their
parents and try to leave, and they will defend their
(15:26):
parents to no end. I have seen them. I have
seen these cases. I have worked these cases where they
will blatantly lie to my face because they don't want
to get their parents in trouble, even though I see
the bruises all over them, Like I have had cases
where they have giant markings and I ask how this
happened and they will full out light to me to
(15:47):
protect their parents. So for them to get to be adults,
to realize this situation is bad. It's like this, and
I know people are going to be like, this is
an extreme case, not everyone, but emotional abuse psychological abuse
also very much exists, using children like they're your best
friends instead of seeing them as children, using them as
(16:09):
their conversational best friend that you need to talk crap
about your husband, their father or like or you know
their wife, whatever whatnot. It causes damage. Expecting to have
the oldest child take care of all the children and
I know whomen again, especially when we come to like mothers.
(16:29):
They do the best they can, but then there's level
of like not giving compassion to the child as well.
That is exhausting. And I am someone who has not
gone through this as an adopted child. I feel like
I have a really good relationship outside of the politics,
and when we get into those fights, we get into
those fights because when it comes to humanity, I'm going
(16:51):
to stick up for humanity, Like this is the fight
I will always have. And they know this. They have
done really well and making sure that it's not brought up.
Don't talk about it, but they understand where I stand
and they understand my red lines. We are still good,
you know what I mean. Like they are good people,
and I would never go non contact at this time.
There's nothing in my life that tells me that I
(17:12):
need to. But I can absolutely see where people have to.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, I mean, if a relationship is just hurting you,
it does feel I get that. Sometimes we've been taught
that that's a failure. But I do think if a
relationship is just hurting you, I'm much more of a
found family kind of person myself. Exactly. Find people that
(17:40):
support you and take care of you, and you support
them and take care of them and write that's it.
I just think we've been taught to think that's that's
a failure, just like women were taught divorce was a failure.
And I sometimes you have to leave a relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, as you do. Interestingly, and I used that word
a lot. Another TikTok creator named Jasmine Partita, and I
think her site is Jasmine Partita's strategy said this as
(18:19):
to why they think all of this content is coming up,
And it's based on the filial law that is required
for half the country, including state of Georgia, which and
this is what that is explained by trust and will
dot com. Filial responsibility is a legal concept in which
an adult child is financially responsible for their parents unpaid
(18:42):
healthcare costs. Not all states have filial responsibility laws, and
not all families are liable. So in this they talk
about what it means. In short, an individual could have
falilal responsibility if they have the means to pay for
their parents unpaid long term case bill when their parents
are not covered by Medicaid, but do not have the
(19:03):
financial means to pay for them. Also, seemingly some places
it doesn't matter if you can, if you're able to
afford it, you're still given the bill.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yes, and kind of related, there's been a lot of
talk recently about because we got kind of this like
boomer generation who's all aging, and that the idea has been, oh,
you'll inherit their house and everything, but inheriting the house
actually comes with a lot of debt, like often a
(19:39):
lot of debt, a lot of a lot of people
don't want to move into that house, so you got
to sell the house, you got to find like it is.
That was one of my first thoughts when you were
talking about these kind of older people, being like, don't
cut off contact with your family kids is because you know,
you don't have the If you don't have a kids,
(20:00):
who's going to take care of you and who's going
to take care of the house and who's gonna do
all that stuff? Just a very like dark way to
think about it, But it is, It's true. It's the
reality we live in.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You right well, And this is again maybe an underlying
point of how the country is cutting down Medicaid coverage completely,
like if not absolutely, and many places apparently you can
be jilled for not being able to for some of
these things. I saw a couple of articles where ninety
like one man was sued for ninety three thousand dollars
(20:31):
for a woman who went into nursing homes that he
had nothing to do with. He did not sign any papers.
I think he had cut off contact. Within that video,
I had people, I saw people commenting. One person was
talking about, my father was an addict. He left me.
I was in the system, and I am now under
him for some of the things that he had gotten
(20:53):
for charges, an OH, restitution for like so many like
different levels of like what is happening? And so this
conversation is this older generation is kind of freaking out
a little bit and saying, please, don't have them cut
us off, because who's going to take over and take
these responsibilities? Also, who's going to take care of us? Also,
who's going to look after us all these things? Is
(21:13):
it a government ploy? Because also we know, like we
were talking about the property Trump tried to sign, I
don't know if it was successful, in which if you
cannot pay the property tax within a certain short term
for the inheritance of a billion, then they can take
it without any payment. They just take it. So government
can take land. It's like seizing of land for you
(21:33):
not being able to pay like fifty thousand dollars worth
of taxes for land, which is obscene in itself. There's
a lot of conversation in this what is the reasoning,
what is the background? Who is what is the motivation? Again,
I did not watch all of the Oprah ones, but
she at least had kind of a two sided conversation
(21:55):
in this as where mel Robbins seems to really want
to push this, Well, they're never gonna change, so you
just need to accept them haha, and we're like, or
we cut them off. Yeah, yeah, I don't have to
forget them. I can move on. There was someone and
I don't know if she was siding with the patients
(22:19):
who are dying or the family, because I've seen different
people have like hospice nurses who talk about how they've
had to make contact with their family members of these
dying patients, and her realizing these children do not owe
this dying patient anything, and I have to remember that
I can't take that personally. Even if they are good
(22:40):
to me, they did something to them that to the
family members is unforgivable and I have to let that
be and I have to accept their wishes as much
as my dying patient. Like it was this conversation in
this one the converse. She was talking about how seeing
that I think like them leaving letters and whether or
not they should be able to send those letters or not.
And I'm like, oh, that's a feel like that could
(23:01):
be real ugly if they don't have contact and you're
forcing them to read a letter that they are they
can't ever get closure from. That seems evil.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
My dad did Dad? Oh no, he didn't. We weren't
no contact, but we were very uh contact. We were
a very strange relationship. And he left me a letter.
I did not read it for years.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's right, Oh, that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And then I had a friend read it for me
just to like give give me the quick notes about it. Yeah,
and it was fine. It was not anything good, It
wasn't anything major. But he did do that. But I
think that's also when you have a friend who you
can be like, please read this and he's very traumatic
letter and it was long, it was so many pages.
(23:53):
But she did it. She and I still haven't read it.
I took her description. I was like, got it.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
All right, amazing. I mean, that's a great way to
do it. Also with the therapist. But yeah, so there's
a lot to be said in this conversation and to
our people out there. We've talked about this again, like
I've talked about how I've had to avoid some situations
and really being very like candidate in that I cannot
(24:19):
deal with this. This is my livelihood, and I feel
like some of my family does not respect that. I
think we've become better in these terms, and I think
they had any You and I talked about the fact
that they're starting to regret some decisions they've made as
of late, which I love seeing. But with that respecting
that you have boundaries. And I don't know why we're backtracking,
(24:40):
and I hope we're not. I hope the backlash to
these creators or to this episodes and content is a
good sign that we don't backtrack in that. Yeah, you
have the right to have happiness and freedom as well,
like that is something that's part of supposed to be
our constitutional rights, you know, but we know that's been
(25:07):
changing to anyway. But with that, to find your peace
as well, and to do what you need to do,
whether it's to be with your found family, whether it's
to be by yourself and let yourself do what you
need to do, or whether it is that you need
a conclusion and you do want to try to patch
things up. That's amazing that that is a great place
(25:27):
to be if you can get to that point and
if you're able to get to that point, but also
that you have the free will to do so, and
I hope that that comes in an understanding that you
do so for yourself and for you You need to do.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah from a healthy place. And I also know that
this is very different in different cultures. So if you
have any thoughts on that or on this whole conversation,
please let us know. We I hope all of you
are doing as well as you can be in these
stressful times, and we would love to hear from you.
(26:07):
You can email us at Hello at stuff Iannever Told
You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
Mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have
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that you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
says too, our Sue of Bruce Castina exector brusin my
Introjutor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Stuff I've Never Told You Dispriction by heart Radio. For
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Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I never told you protection if I heart with you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another holiday Monday, Mini, and it's not
a happy one. I guess I should put this in.
I think this is just a conversation. We've had many
conversations like this, so not necessarily trigger warning. We're not
doing anything deep and dark. But you know, we know
holidays are stressful, so if family talking about family is stressful,
(00:42):
you can save this one. I'm gonna say that. And
today is December fourth, twenty five aspect we're recording it.
So I just want to put this timestamp because we
know this is ever changing in conversation, and I feel
like we're taking terms like no contact, narcissism and all
of that and really having a field day on who
(01:03):
or what that is talking about and who's allowed to
use these terms. Weirdly, I know, but it changes. So
with that, yeah, there's a timestamp, but we are talking
about no contact. So it's the holidays again, and that
comes with a lot of mixed feelings, emotions, stress, all
the above, and interestingly, people seem to have a lot
of thoughts on going no contact with families again, especially
(01:26):
since it's the holiday times, and for clarification, I guess
just to put it out that no contact is pretty
much just cutting all communications off with someone that you
feel is not beneficial or toxic to your help and
your well being. So you know, you may be seeing
it as I'm going no contact with my mother. That's
the most that I've seen or my family member. And
(01:48):
we've talked about how the politics and political conversations has
really kind of heightened that level of need to need
to really separate or go low contact is another thing
that we've talked about. I've said that word a couple
of years ago as well, I feel like I need
to do this or it's going to ruin our relationship period.
(02:09):
So we've talked about this a lot in that context,
but there's seem to be big creators or big celebrities
who are talking about this. And for those of you
who aren't as online as I am, because I have problems,
but anyway, there's been some big names who have decided
to take this time to have their own opinions be
(02:31):
spread about, including Oprah Rimfrey and Mel Robbins. So if
you don't know who Mel Robins is I feel like
you're in the podcast interest. You like podcasts, you probably
know who this is. But she is a best selling
author and podcaster with lots of self help books, and
I believe she has a law degree, so it's not
like she's I thought maybe she was a counselor at
(02:51):
one point in time. No, she just has a lot
of opinions, which is fine. And I think a lot
of people follow her because they really liked some of
her contact. And I think she's one of those people
who says you can't change other people, which is very true.
Which is very true. Okay, Yeah, so back to this.
(03:12):
Robins actually wrote an article for the New York Times
opinion section called life is too Short to Fight with
your Family, where she seems to be saying to children
to let things go and just be okay. So I
did not read the full piece to be very transparent,
but man, it is all over my feed about her
(03:34):
comments and conversations in this and it is interesting in
that level because I've seen a lot of whom I
would put Gen X boomer generations who are like, you
need to let things go, You're being too sensitive. You
need to give everybody chances repeatedly. This is kind of
the conversation we've always had to our detriment. And I
(03:56):
say this as a millennial slash gen X in between.
I don't know what else to say it. I'm an
elder millennial exllennial as some people would say. So I
feel like I have a little bit of a grasp
on both in that level again from the south to country,
and I feel like that makes me more X gen
X just with that anyway. So again I think I'm
(04:18):
oversimplifying in that when I say it like that that
she's just like, Eh, let it go. The people, you know,
you just need to be okay with them. They're never
going to change. But many people have a lot of
feelings and have spoken a lot about what's going on.
So this was one from one or article written by
John Pavelowitz in his sub Stack, which he talks about
(04:40):
it's hard to be in contact with racist family members,
so he essentially says this, But in this piece he
says Robin warns against the dangers of distancing ourselves from
those whose beliefs differ from our own. She warns that
in the long run, creating a relational and physical proximity
between ourselves and loved ones we disagree with will likely
have a devastating impact on our happiness and well being,
(05:05):
it continues the let them theory author, So the let
them is like you have to let them be done. Essentially,
I think the let them theory author advises readers to
bear with the faults and failings of family members, saying
that the key is quote learning how to accept people
as they are, sometimes in spite of who they are.
And though he tries to be understanding, I think he
(05:27):
really comes back with like, don't get me wrong, we
do need to try to get along. It's not like
you being immediately like I'm done with you can be
harmful for yourself as well. But he also makes this point,
but at some point it's perfectly acceptable and admirable to
cut ties with people with whom we've come to realize
(05:49):
we are morally incompatible, not just for our mental, emotional,
and physical help, but because in doing so, we will
be emancipated from the shame that tells us we owe
anyone proximity or permanence. When liberated in that way, we
can fully advocate for the vulnerable and oppressed and marginalized
instead of pretending they don't exist just so we can
(06:09):
have a nice dinner. So there's a lot in that
context because I feel like, again, this is the older
group of people or the very center leaning people who
is like, I'm center, I don't I'm not on non
political Why can't we just let this be why you
have to make this a big deal type of thing.
It's that same level of conversation that we had with
(06:34):
when we talk about women not dating Republicans. We talk
about women saying we will not date you if you
are in this pipeline, like this kind of simplification of like,
but there, you're just pushing out people that needs you
the most, as if those responsibilities are placed back on
to you. Right. And Oprah apparently has some opinions on
(06:56):
it too, calling this move an epidemic going no contact.
This revelation that people children are going no contact is
an epidemic. It's a sad epidemic in the world. So
in November, Obrah decided to do a groundbreaking she called
it Groundbreaking show episode where she features parents and children
that talk about their relationships and how it led to
no contact. I don't think she brought in the parent
(07:19):
child specifically from like one family, but like different people
who went either no contact or people went no contact
with them and they talked about their feelings. And now
again I will also relate I did not watch all
of this. This is all like I give clips and
coming back into like, ha, this is a lot of conversation,
and I think her back and forth is again she
(07:40):
does try to get a whole picture of this, but
also comes back into oh, this is kind of sad
though type of conversation. So in her interview she talks
about statistics and she actually posted this as an advertisment
in her Instagram for the episode, she says around one
third of Americans have cut off off ties from their family.
(08:01):
Once considered taboo going no contact with their family is
now being openly discussed by people of all ages. People
are now redefining what healthy boundaries look like in family dynamics.
So she is very like, okay, it seems like all
could good and well, and then it comes into again
her questioning things and talking to parents and giving like
(08:22):
parents like free, uh, I guess free time to say.
I saw one woman come in and talking about how
why is it so bad for my son or my children?
To have no contact with me, but I can't do
the same. I get villainized if I were to go
no contact with my children. People have thoughts, People have thoughts.
It also was said that she actually chose her husband
(08:44):
over her son at one point, which we've talked about
this in this dynamics of like especially like family annihilation
type of stuff where we see step children, not because
like stepparents are awful, but like not having the good relationship,
things having happening between the two of them, children being
murdered by step parents or vice versa, like these levels
and then history like certain things come along being like,
(09:05):
oh this was always rocky, this is a thing, and
not that we're going to come back to blaming mothers
for all this or not, because there's so many layers
to how mothers are villainized. But in this level of
a conversation, she was specifically talking about how she put
her son out because she would not listen to her
husband's rules after the fact of not defending her husband
(09:25):
when he came in and started being physically violent, something
along those lines. So there's a lot to that, but
again a whole different level, and people were like, you know,
because children did not choose to be born. Was one
of the big conversations. I shouldn't have to pay for
your sins in order to, you know, to be raised
in a way. Blah blah blah. But then also in
(09:47):
that same episode, I did see clips of one man
who came in talking about how he didn't understand what
he did wrong. He didn't want to go to therapy,
but his daughter was willing to go to therapy with
him if he come back to contact. And when he did,
he really discovered a lot about himself and had to
let go of some ideals, like thinking that she was
a teenager when she was an adult and treating her
like a teenager, and how that doesn't work anymore, and
(10:09):
like all these things, and we were like learning a
lot and coming back to having a beautiful relationship. But
he was apparently one of few in being able to
see this, but like it have some of those points
of views in that conversation. Interestingly about Oprah, because I
(10:33):
don't know many people know the history of Oprah. I
don't remember this. I'm not gonna lie because this was
before my time. My mother loved us some Oprah, though
loved some Oprah. One viewer actually who is a family
relationship coach pointed out that it could be said Oprah
was the beginning of such a phenomenon. So this is
from a mom and mea article they write. Tania, who
(10:54):
was the therapist or the coach, claimed Oprah's amplification of
family estrangement started in the nineties and has continued to
the present day. She referenced articles about toxic family dynamics
on Oprah's website look at the chow. She wasn't neutral,
she wasn't asking questions. She amplified the very messaging that
contributed to millions of parents and children walking away from
(11:15):
one another, she argued. The relationship coach, who has personal
experience with exchangement, questioned why Oprah was shocked by the
quote sudden heartbreaking epidemic when she had a quote hand
in shaping.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
It Ah, and this apparently rattled Oprah because Oprah responded
she said in a comment, happy to have a conversation
about it, but not on a real We'll have my
producer contact you if you're interested.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Oprah doesn't comment. Yeah, she never has to. So she
really felt that one because she does. She does have
a whole history her mom was not great for her
and really abusive, and she just had it, had enough,
and so she went no contact essentially. I don't think
it was called no contact obviously at that point in time,
but like she kind of shaped that. So this creator,
(12:03):
this coach was like a, uh, you are grifting at
this point. You created this, and now you wanted to
ask about this, which Oprah's influence into what we see
today is alarming. That's a whole different conversation, but I
thought that was super interesting in that and the question
is a much bigger when we talk about childhood trauma
(12:25):
and family responsibility, and it's interesting turn of like you're
going to regret this and the such that that kind
of conversation. If you do this, if you can't like
close no content, you're going to regret things. You're not
going to make things up, You're going to kind of
that whole forgiving And we've talked about this someone who's dying,
like do they deserve that forgiveness? Are you supposed to?
(12:45):
Are you all these things? It's kind of that same
look in psychology today had some thoughts too, like they
were very ready to go. So the article was in
response to the Oprah episode like she the counselor who
was a licensed social worker, talked about this, and she
writes this, also, it's easy to forget that our parents
are people too. People make mistakes. We are not born
(13:08):
with a gene for being a good parent. Show me
a self centered parent, and I'll show you someone who
probably didn't have great role models or lots of warm
nurturing either. Naturally, this doesn't excuse herful behaviors. Nothing does.
But when one's lens is compassionate and combined with the
toolkit of navigating really really challenging conversations, there's truly a
possibility for change. Relationships can improve over time, with work
(13:32):
and sometimes with help Encouraging complete withdrawal from relationships leads
to nothingness, and nothingness leads to nothing changing. Again, this
comes back into the whole like we're going back to
why won't you give them a chance? You have to
help them change, putting the responsibility back on the children,
(13:53):
which we've seen too much of. We've talked about this
without Prunification episodes. We've talked about this with any of
the trauma episodes. I'm sure Kristen and Caroline talked about
them in the narcissist episodes that they've had before. There's
a lot to be said when it's like, but if
they don't change and the outcome is just continue pain,
(14:15):
what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I think most people don't go no contact after like
one instance.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It is a lot and you've probably spoken about it
and it still goes on. So it's not like you're
being a fragile, delicate Oh they've hurt my feelings this
work time, they didn't give me one to continual behavior
that hurts you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We have situations where divorce parents may have some things
up and like like what are these things? Like there's
there can be manipulation and things and circumstances that we
don't always know, but absolutely one hundred between by an
adult child who is probably twenty thirty forties who finally
decide they cannot do this anymore. This has been years
(15:04):
of something, This has been years of reasoning, and finally
doing so takes a lot more strength because oftentimes that
means you've been cut off by a whole section of yourself.
Like that's painful to lose. Even when we talk about
like traumatized abused victims, child abused victims I have seen
are more likely to try to go back to their
parents and try to leave, and they will defend their
(15:26):
parents to no end. I have seen them. I have
seen these cases. I have worked these cases where they
will blatantly lie to my face because they don't want
to get their parents in trouble, even though I see
the bruises all over them, Like I have had cases
where they have giant markings and I ask how this
happened and they will full out light to me to
(15:47):
protect their parents. So for them to get to be adults,
to realize this situation is bad. It's like this, and
I know people are going to be like, this is
an extreme case, not everyone, but emotional abuse psychological abuse
also very much exists, using children like they're your best
friends instead of seeing them as children, using them as
(16:09):
their conversational best friend that you need to talk crap
about your husband, their father or like or you know
their wife, whatever whatnot. It causes damage. Expecting to have
the oldest child take care of all the children and
I know whomen again, especially when we come to like mothers.
(16:29):
They do the best they can, but then there's level
of like not giving compassion to the child as well.
That is exhausting. And I am someone who has not
gone through this as an adopted child. I feel like
I have a really good relationship outside of the politics,
and when we get into those fights, we get into
those fights because when it comes to humanity, I'm going
(16:51):
to stick up for humanity, Like this is the fight
I will always have. And they know this. They have
done really well and making sure that it's not brought up.
Don't talk about it, but they understand where I stand
and they understand my red lines. We are still good,
you know what I mean. Like they are good people,
and I would never go non contact at this time.
There's nothing in my life that tells me that I
(17:12):
need to. But I can absolutely see where people have to.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, I mean, if a relationship is just hurting you,
it does feel I get that. Sometimes we've been taught
that that's a failure. But I do think if a
relationship is just hurting you, I'm much more of a
found family kind of person myself. Exactly. Find people that
(17:40):
support you and take care of you, and you support
them and take care of them and write that's it.
I just think we've been taught to think that's that's
a failure, just like women were taught divorce was a failure.
And I sometimes you have to leave a relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, as you do. Interestingly, and I used that word
a lot. Another TikTok creator named Jasmine Partita, and I
think her site is Jasmine Partita's strategy said this as
(18:19):
to why they think all of this content is coming up,
And it's based on the filial law that is required
for half the country, including state of Georgia, which and
this is what that is explained by trust and will
dot com. Filial responsibility is a legal concept in which
an adult child is financially responsible for their parents unpaid
(18:42):
healthcare costs. Not all states have filial responsibility laws, and
not all families are liable. So in this they talk
about what it means. In short, an individual could have
falilal responsibility if they have the means to pay for
their parents unpaid long term case bill when their parents
are not covered by Medicaid, but do not have the
(19:03):
financial means to pay for them. Also, seemingly some places
it doesn't matter if you can, if you're able to
afford it, you're still given the bill.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yes, and kind of related, there's been a lot of
talk recently about because we got kind of this like
boomer generation who's all aging, and that the idea has been, oh,
you'll inherit their house and everything, but inheriting the house
actually comes with a lot of debt, like often a
(19:39):
lot of debt, a lot of a lot of people
don't want to move into that house, so you got
to sell the house, you got to find like it is.
That was one of my first thoughts when you were
talking about these kind of older people, being like, don't
cut off contact with your family kids is because you know,
you don't have the If you don't have a kids,
(20:00):
who's going to take care of you and who's going
to take care of the house and who's gonna do
all that stuff? Just a very like dark way to
think about it, But it is, It's true. It's the
reality we live in.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You right well, And this is again maybe an underlying
point of how the country is cutting down Medicaid coverage completely,
like if not absolutely, and many places apparently you can
be jilled for not being able to for some of
these things. I saw a couple of articles where ninety
like one man was sued for ninety three thousand dollars
(20:31):
for a woman who went into nursing homes that he
had nothing to do with. He did not sign any papers.
I think he had cut off contact. Within that video,
I had people, I saw people commenting. One person was
talking about, my father was an addict. He left me.
I was in the system, and I am now under
him for some of the things that he had gotten
(20:53):
for charges, an OH, restitution for like so many like
different levels of like what is happening? And so this
conversation is this older generation is kind of freaking out
a little bit and saying, please, don't have them cut
us off, because who's going to take over and take
these responsibilities? Also, who's going to take care of us? Also,
who's going to look after us all these things? Is
(21:13):
it a government ploy? Because also we know, like we
were talking about the property Trump tried to sign, I
don't know if it was successful, in which if you
cannot pay the property tax within a certain short term
for the inheritance of a billion, then they can take
it without any payment. They just take it. So government
can take land. It's like seizing of land for you
(21:33):
not being able to pay like fifty thousand dollars worth
of taxes for land, which is obscene in itself. There's
a lot of conversation in this what is the reasoning,
what is the background? Who is what is the motivation? Again,
I did not watch all of the Oprah ones, but
she at least had kind of a two sided conversation
(21:55):
in this as where mel Robbins seems to really want
to push this, Well, they're never gonna change, so you
just need to accept them haha, and we're like, or
we cut them off. Yeah, yeah, I don't have to
forget them. I can move on. There was someone and
I don't know if she was siding with the patients
(22:19):
who are dying or the family, because I've seen different
people have like hospice nurses who talk about how they've
had to make contact with their family members of these
dying patients, and her realizing these children do not owe
this dying patient anything, and I have to remember that
I can't take that personally. Even if they are good
(22:40):
to me, they did something to them that to the
family members is unforgivable and I have to let that
be and I have to accept their wishes as much
as my dying patient. Like it was this conversation in
this one the converse. She was talking about how seeing
that I think like them leaving letters and whether or
not they should be able to send those letters or not.
And I'm like, oh, that's a feel like that could
(23:01):
be real ugly if they don't have contact and you're
forcing them to read a letter that they are they
can't ever get closure from. That seems evil.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
My dad did Dad? Oh no, he didn't. We weren't
no contact, but we were very uh contact. We were
a very strange relationship. And he left me a letter.
I did not read it for years.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's right, Oh, that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And then I had a friend read it for me
just to like give give me the quick notes about it. Yeah,
and it was fine. It was not anything good, It
wasn't anything major. But he did do that. But I
think that's also when you have a friend who you
can be like, please read this and he's very traumatic
letter and it was long, it was so many pages.
(23:53):
But she did it. She and I still haven't read it.
I took her description. I was like, got it.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
All right, amazing. I mean, that's a great way to
do it. Also with the therapist. But yeah, so there's
a lot to be said in this conversation and to
our people out there. We've talked about this again, like
I've talked about how I've had to avoid some situations
and really being very like candidate in that I cannot
(24:19):
deal with this. This is my livelihood, and I feel
like some of my family does not respect that. I
think we've become better in these terms, and I think
they had any You and I talked about the fact
that they're starting to regret some decisions they've made as
of late, which I love seeing. But with that respecting
that you have boundaries. And I don't know why we're backtracking,
(24:40):
and I hope we're not. I hope the backlash to
these creators or to this episodes and content is a
good sign that we don't backtrack in that. Yeah, you
have the right to have happiness and freedom as well,
like that is something that's part of supposed to be
our constitutional rights, you know, but we know that's been
(25:07):
changing to anyway. But with that, to find your peace
as well, and to do what you need to do,
whether it's to be with your found family, whether it's
to be by yourself and let yourself do what you
need to do, or whether it is that you need
a conclusion and you do want to try to patch
things up. That's amazing that that is a great place
(25:27):
to be if you can get to that point and
if you're able to get to that point, but also
that you have the free will to do so, and
I hope that that comes in an understanding that you
do so for yourself and for you You need to do.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah from a healthy place. And I also know that
this is very different in different cultures. So if you
have any thoughts on that or on this whole conversation,
please let us know. We I hope all of you
are doing as well as you can be in these
stressful times, and we would love to hear from you.
(26:07):
You can email us at Hello at stuff Iannever Told
You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
Mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have
some new merchandise at Commonpiro and we have a book
that you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
says too, our Sue of Bruce Castina exector brusin my
Introjutor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Stuff I've Never Told You Dispriction by heart Radio. For
(26:28):
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
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