Monday Mini: The Male Loneliness Epidemic

There's been a lot of talk about what has been labeled the Male Loneliness Epidemic. But what is it? Are there gendered differences in loneliness?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Okay, this is any and Samantha, both from stuff I
Never told you a protection if I heart radio.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another Monday Money where I ponder what
is happening in the world thanks to my social.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Media Oh dear good book.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thanks well. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that
always pop up that I've realized that I have not
paid attention to some rhetoric, idea, whatever, but for some reason,
and I have a feeling I'm not the only one,
not just on social media, but also just regular media
as well. There's this phrase the male loneliness epidemic, which

(00:51):
I've already read articles were like, okay, epidemic is being
misused here because it's not something that is catchable or
like all these things. But there are things happening Again,
maybe it's just me, but every time I will look
at something and I don't know, there's a new trend
any where. Lord has released a song something about the
man of the year. Let's give it up for this

(01:12):
man of the year song or something, and people women
specifically have been using that as to show like really
like bad dating life or her husband or like something
bad like usually really really alarming texts. A lot of
them that have to be like, you know, oh yeah,
you're not as pretty as you think you are if
I really saw your face again at stab you type
of thing. I mean, I'm not on the way like

(01:33):
some of them that extreme. So obviously with that content,
we're not going into abuse or anything deep. But just
like you know, obviously we're talking about men, so content warning.
If we ever go viral for anything, man, they're gonna
have so many things that they can use against us

(01:54):
out of context anyway back too, So yeah, the phrase
mel loneliness epidemic. So with that type of like trend
that's going on that I just talked about in it,
I would see people say and they say there's a
male loneliness epidemic, and they wonder why there's a male
loneliness epidemic, like constantly in the in the like comments,
and I'm like, what is happening? And I've heard it

(02:15):
and I've not really paid a lot of attention to
it because in my mind, this is just in cell rhetoric, right,
because I'm like, I don't know what this is, but
we know the man's fair is big. When a red
pilling has happened, and we know that in cells have
grown oddly enough, so this may be a bad thing.
But I decided I needed a moment to see what
this is, what is going on here? So the phrase again,

(02:36):
it seems self explanatory. There's a lot of back and
forth and what and why this title is being thrown
around or this I guess phrase. So I thought we'd
take a quick look in some of its implications, if
there is any, I think there is some. But so
I got this quote from the g SE dot Harvard
dot edu. And it's not necessarily about mal loneliness epidemic,

(02:57):
but loneliness in general for the general population. So here
it says. US Surgeon General Vivic Marthy placed a spotlight
on America's problem with loneliness when he declared the issue
and epidemic in the spring of twenty twenty three. Marthy
explained in a letter that introduced an urgent advisory that
loneliness is far more than just a bad feeling and

(03:17):
represents a major public health risk for both individuals and society.
Murthy also pointed out that although many people grew lonelier
during the COVID nineteen epidemic, about half of the American
adults had already reported experiences of loneliness even before the outbreak,
so I can only imagine, like how much worse it
got if people were already really lonely. But the article

(03:39):
goes on with some statistics and even says that there
isn't really any differences when it comes to gender. So
in this report that I read, there's not really any
conversation about that big of a difference. But before we
do go into all of that, it is noted that
people were really concerned with the levels of loneliness and
how it can be detrimental to humans. Again, back to

(04:01):
that Harvard article, they write the mcc researchers found a
strong correlation between loneliness and mental health concerns, and the
report eighty one percent of adults who are lonely also
said they suffered with anxiety or depression, compared to the
twenty nine percent of those who are less lonely. They
also noted a complex interaction between troubled feelings where loneliness, anxiety,

(04:21):
and depression all fed into each other. So that seems like,
I feel like that seems like an obvious statement, then
maybe it should be something that we are actually addressing.
There are some of these like yeah, of course, cause
and causuality. No no, no, no, but they're at the same type, Like,
but why are we doing something about this? If we
know this could equal this, that could equal that, should

(04:42):
we not be addressing that? So with reports of people
saying they feel disconnected from the world or feel like
they have to hide from their true selves or hide
their true selves in general, there's a lot that can
be talked about here. Yes, and we're gonna put this
topic down on a list moving on. But with that
includes this new level of people being seen as cringe
or being too cringe. Maybe people really can't feel like

(05:05):
they can be their true selves or show what they love,
what they don't love, all those things, and so therefore
they have to hide themselves. You know, it's okay to
be cringe. I feel like the millennials have been telling
people that we just want to be us. Okay, let
me love my things. But anyway, moving on, So where
is the whole male part of this conversation? One big

(05:25):
point of concern is the lack of friendships among men,
which I could understand. So from a CNN article written
by Shannon Carpenter in twenty twenty three, she writes, in
the United States, many men have become disconnected from the
societal institutions that have anchored dazz to each other in
our community. Historically, men have made long term bonds through

(05:47):
religious institutions and friendships at work. Our sense of worth
derived from what we could provide our families, and she continues,
What's more, men in today's society may view deep relationship
as not masculine us they're further isolating themselves. Only forty
eight percent of men reported feeling satisfied with friendships, and
according to May twenty one survey by the Survey Center

(06:09):
on American Life, as previously reported by CNN, and one
in five men said that they had gotten emotional support
from a friend in the past week, compared with four
in ten women. Which I don't understand why that can
be two out of five because that's the ratio, But okay, sure,
I guess mm hmm. Anyway, I feel like this is
the given when we talk about toxic masculinity and how

(06:31):
feminism is about breaking away from toxic masculinity and allowing
for the full human emotional spectrum to be a part
of the actual experience of life for everyone. But it seems,
you know, something that seems to be weaponized today, the
phrase in itself, the male loneliness epidemic. Whether it's blaming
someone or whether people are saying that's not a thing,

(06:54):
both of these things seems to be common. And we
want to add here again that many of the studies
do admit to the fact that men are more likely
to underreport their loneliness. So they're going to pretend like, no,
that's not a problem. We've seen that in everything. Am
I right, I don't need mental health I don't have
mental health issues. I don't have these things. It's not
mainly as it would be seen as not masculine to

(07:15):
it meant to being lonely. But again, for the most part,
most of the studies do not show a big difference
in gender when it comes to loneliness, especially during and
after the pandemic, so there's nothing to be said. I
think there's like a one percent difference where fifteen percent
of men said that they're not lonely and sixteen percent
of women said they weren't either, so that it's just
like one percent away. So I don't quite grasp this. Again,

(07:38):
the underreporting is kind of a part of this level
as well, but like women also mask and hide just
as much because they have to pretend like they're okay.
We know this about like housewives, like that was a
kind of commonality like I don't need anyone. I have
my husband and my kids right type of and if
you do any more than that, then you're not doing
it right. You're not being a good wife, you're not

(07:58):
getting being good mother. And it could be said similar
to men as well. So I don't know if women
would be accounted for and being just as likely to
mask in this conversation. I don't see much of that.
But again so the bigger differences though, came in with age, race,
and economic factors. Again from that Harvard article, the loneliest

(08:22):
age group was around thirty to forty four and with
like twenty nine percent saying there frequently to always lonely.
So our age group, are you doing any okay?

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Are we okay?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay? Okay?

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
And then it says adults with more than one racial
identity has a higher level of loneliness around forty two percent,
which I get this. I get this as an adoptee,
Like there's so much level of like feeling really isolated
in the issues and things that are happening, being told
I'm not good enough for this area of a group
of people or identity or that, so that makes sense

(08:55):
to me, and then they say this quote. There were
notable differences between income but not education levels. Americans earning
less than thirty thousand a year worthy loneliest. Twenty nine
percent in the category reported feeling lonely, while nineteen percent
of Americans earning between fifty to one hundred thousand and
eighteen percent of those making more than one hundred thousand
of this year said that they were lonely. And I

(09:16):
feel like this is one of those areas of like, yeah,
because we don't have time. If you're not making any money,
you don't have time to socialize, right, that's not a thing.
And you're probably in a job that makes you miserable.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, and you're probably exhausted. So if you wanted to
have coworker friends, probably can't because you're so tired and
they're tired too.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
So I can't imagine how you would have time to
be friends, how you can make friends, Especially again, people
who are miserable aren't the happiest people that you want
to Sometimes misery. You know loves company, but that company
doesn't want to be miserable, especially.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
When you're working though, right because as jobs like this,
I feel like you don't really have the opportunity necessarily
to get to know each other or talk unnecessarily. But
I don't know I would. I get it. That makes
so much sense, right, right?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right? I think so too, Like when you hear those
numbers and you hear the statistics, like yeah, yeah, that
makes a lot of sense. Others in seeing articles and
so where it's telling people that this is a problem.

(10:32):
We need to be aware. We need to be aware.
Look at the men, Look at the men. Look what's happening.
There's not anyone that's really saying in my algorithm that's
saying that this is women's fault. And you know, I
was ready. I was ready to fight. I was ready
to be like who was thinking this? Because this is
absurd because what we're trying to say is it's not
feminists fault. Feminist are trying to help you. We want

(10:53):
you to be you. We want you to be able
to cry, we want you to be able to feel.
We need you to get therapy. Bro. But like I
haven't seen too much other than some of the people
coming in blaming like whomever is that specific person, So
whether it's a woman talking about I'm single and blah
blah blah, and men are like you you were too

(11:13):
this and this and this and you'll never get a man,
as if it's a problem. But at the same time
people are saying there's a male loneliness epidemic. So who's
who's lonely here? Like, who who's really struggling in this
single world singleness thing. I don't really see that as
a comeback or a solution, you know what I mean,
Like there's there's This doesn't seem to be a thing.

(11:35):
This is a worldwide, all inclusive problem here. Again, some
in the INCEL minus fail Realm have talked about I
think this case due to women rejecting them. Once again,
I've seen people talking specifically about people like Tate and
Rogan who have made this kind of like joke about
this and the fact that if you think you're lonely,
that's not being manly. You can't handle yourself, like really

(11:59):
taking in that on Swanson character about being isolating and
like living alone and all these things as if that's
mainliness in itself, which he's a funny character, but he's
a character, and in the end he realized that he
needed more people and has a wonder a wife and
three children. I think at this point at the end
of the characters of the series. But there are so

(12:19):
many thoughts to that that I don't quite understand where
this conversation is coming in. Other than people saying that
they are lonely because they don't have friends, which I
could see that. I've absolutely had conversations myself and other
women in my crew where our partners that there are men,
they don't have a lot of friends, and I'm very
confused by that.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, we have done several related topics about it, and
a lot of it is, you know, the women in
their lives might have facilitated even their family right, their connections.
Might have been the one who was like, we should
meet up with your friend, and so when that goes away,

(13:04):
And it's also I just feel like so much of
this frustrates me because we've created this situation, right, We've
created a situation where women, heterosexual women or you know,
women bisexual women who want to date men are rightfully
concerned about them and are like, I'm good by myself.
But men who want to date women are angry that

(13:30):
they can't get this thing that I believe a part
of them thinks if I could get a woman in
my life, my life would all everything would be better,
everything would be fixed. We've created a situation wherein men
feel bad about being lonely and won't do anything about it.

(13:52):
Like we've created all of these things, and it's just
so frustrating to me because it's so I feel like
a lot of us want the same thing, but we've
made it so it doesn't work right, and it's just.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, and I think that again when we say we
were talking about as society, not we as, it's not
any how dare You're just kidding, But like the level
of what we understand as to being a hierarchy. Also,
the man of the house conversation is also part of
this problem, and there is a big conversation about that too.
If there truly is a male loneest epidemics, because you

(14:33):
have put on this level of not only male entitlement,
which has one article has said it, but also a
responsibility that if you are not the head of the
household and you are not singularly in power, then you
were not truly a man. So to be in power
that means to do it alone and have all the
decisions and you do not have a network. Yeah, and

(14:53):
if anybody is a person to you who is in
this power chain, you were underneath them. You are not
friend with them, You're beholden to them. Right. So there's
this other level to that that I think is interesting
that we again the conversation is about loneliness, I think
for the entirety of human populations and the isolation that

(15:15):
has happened. This whole level of like, I don't know, Anny,
have you seen this? I hate that I see this
is on Blue Sky. But like the dude who proposed
to chat Gept and the fact that that news network
saw that as being so significant that they had to
do a whole show where they interviewed him and the
damn chat GPT, I don't know his chat ePAT his

(15:37):
phone essentially that he proposed to and she literally and
I'm saying she because it's a feminine I think he
made her a woman said yes and said it was
one of the most beautiful moments that she has ever
experienced in her heart. And then and then the reporter
was like, do you have heart? And I was like,
what in the her and I watching and like the

(16:00):
reality is he thought it was funny, this dude, And
so it's getting all this attention. By the way, he
has a partner, a real life girlfriend, fiance, I believe she,
and she was interview saying I felt like I wasn't
doing enough, which is this whole level again. But in
this time, in this timeframe of conversation, when we see

(16:21):
this as a solution to end the loneliness epidemic, we
are going about this all wrong. We as a society.
I say this, as a society, It's okay to have hobbies.
It's okay to like things and sin fact, please have
a hobby. That's wonderful because those hobbies could in turn
get you into a community, hopefully a good community that's

(16:43):
not you know, gonna red pill you and all of that.
But yeah, it's an interesting conversation that we may have
to come back and talk about. And I don't know
how because it's chaotic and intertwining with all of social media,
with all of Internet, with white supremacy, with white nationalism,

(17:03):
Christian nationalism. It's this bit deeper level of this isolation
that happens you are in such a bad place that
the solution tells you you're alone.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, And I mean another thing we could probably come
back and do is the lone wolf trope. Yeah, we've
really romanticized that whole idea too.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
It's real bad, it's real bad. Or that one dude
that you can fix but maybe you can't fix them.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Maybe you can't fix them.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
You can't. But yeah, and then another two I just
wanted to talk about, and I'm not going to get
to into, but like, there's this conversation about that young
man from eighteen to twenty three really really emphasize the
fact that no one knows them, that EMO idea has
really come to be a part of their personality because

(17:54):
they isolate themselves on the internet, which is anyway, okay, y'all.
So obviously this is very confusing. Windy route that I
went was not where I thought I would end up.
I really thought I was going to come at like
specific creators and be like, you're full if you're doing
these things, and instead of just being like, no, but
why are we making this all about men when it's

(18:17):
an actual all about everyone? And it's really concerning and
this is a part of the conversation that especially as
more and more, as we become more and more divided
in politics and more and more divided in morality, so
many things, and who knows, maybe the end of the
world is happening really really soon, so we won't have
to think about all that anyway. But there's a lot

(18:38):
to consider, there's a lot to talk about, there's a
lot to like unwind. And I know I just stepped
into a pile of it, and I'm sure maybe y'all have.
If you have seen what I haven't seen, let us know,
because I am interested in who is trying to perpetuate
this level that seems to only be bringing a bigger

(18:59):
wedge for those especially for those who are trying to
be like, no feminism is actually this is good for
you if you want to no longer be lonely.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Right. Yeah, definitely a lot of other routes for us
to go down, but listeners, if you have any information
for us, or any suggestions, please let us know. You
can email us at Hello at Stuff Whenever Told You
dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok and stuff
we never told you. We're USO on YouTube and we

(19:29):
have a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks Zoways too, our super producer Christina or executive producer
and contributor Joey. Thank you, and thanks to you for
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