December 1, 2025 • 29 mins
A lot of recent popular media really highlights that moms are struggling. What's going on here?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Danny and smitha and welcome stuff. I've
never told you, Protective, I heard you, And today we
have an episode that I have been hinting at in
recent episodes. This one's kind of a jumble of my thoughts,
(00:30):
but there has been some research done and I do
have some of that. That being said, there are going
to be some spoilers into some very recent media, and
I would say particularly all her.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Faults, which by the way, da Coda Fanning playing a
mom really threw me off.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I want that to be noted at the very top.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, all right. Yeah. It has been interesting because she
was so young when she started as an actor.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, like she grew up on the screen and I
feel like, as a person who was in my twenties
seeing her as a child, this is not okay, I digress.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes it was. It was kind of bizarre. Nothing we
talk about. None of them are sponsors currently. This is
just something that's been on my mind, and it feels
like it's been on a lot of people's minds, which
is sort of the point I'm going to make. But uh,
it is kind of related to the single mother trope
(01:29):
that we see in Horror that Samantha, you talked about
in our religious horror episodes, movies like Babaduck Conjuring two.
We didn't you know, I didn't even include the Exorcist
in that, but the Extioucist.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Oh yeah, well, because like she where was the father?
He wasn't. They weren't divorced, right.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
He was like overseas, but he wouldn't even talk to
them on the phone.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Like yeah, absent father is a big yes.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yes, So all of that is related. And this is
something I've been thinking about for a while because right now,
and by right now, I mean in the past like
two or three years, we are having some kind of
moment in entertainment around usually middle aged white mothers, usually
pretty well off middle aged white mothers, having had enough,
(02:23):
like done with their husbands. They are done. So right now,
two of the movies that are inspiring big conversations around
this are If I Had Legs, I'DE Kick You and
Die My Love, which is also about postpardon depression. And
one of the biggest shows is All Her Fault. And
(02:43):
in recent times we've also had Pretty Little Liars and
Night Bitch. And it's pretty striking how much of these
movies are pointing to the fact that moms which is
not okay, and their husbands suck and maybe we should
murder them. Something is going on. I'm telling you so
(03:04):
I have I know what happens in all of these
movies and shows. I haven't seen if I had leg
Sidekick You or Die My Love, but I know what happens.
I kind of knew what happened in Die My Love
before I even knew they were making a movie about it.
But it is very When I was watching All Her Faults,
(03:25):
which I did enjoy, I just I just was struck
by this is this is a something is going on.
This is a pattern I'm seeing, and yeah, the moms
are not okay, and the I do want to say also,
a lot of these movies are sometimes in good faith
(03:48):
and bad faith movies and shows they're very divisive about.
Sometimes it's like men being no, and other times it's
just like that wasn't for me. But I think they are.
They're resonating with a lot of people, and they're causing
a lot of conversation. And I'm not a mother, and
(04:14):
it's amazing how often I connect them. Yeah. See, I've
been treated like that in a relationship. I've been treated
this way in a relationship with a man, and it
just feels like there's some kind of moment that's happening.
And oddly enough, I tried to look into it right
(04:38):
before this, and maybe I just wasn't using the right
search terms, but it doesn't feel like there's been much
written about it. But I'm telling you there's something happening.
And I did find a couple of very recent studies.
They were done during the pandemic, and it was saying, yeah,
(04:58):
moms are not okay, like not doing well. Their mental
health is going down, their physical health is going down
in a noticeable, measurable way. And most all of the
things that I'm talking about here are set like in
our current times. So one of the big things that
(05:23):
comes up in these it's it's usually it goes like this.
In these things. A woman is, you know, happily married,
they have a kid, and then suddenly it's very much
on her to stay home and take care of the kid,
(05:43):
or if she doesn't stay home, it's still she takes
care of the kid, whether that's finding a babysitter or
nanny or whatever it is. She's the one in charge
of the kid, and that's when the fractures and their
relationship start to show up. And then I really appreciate
(06:04):
how in a lot of these it's made clear they
you know, obviously they love their kids, but it's when
you're just at home with a kid who can't really
speak to you or can't really it's very isolating and
almost I think in every example, they have a career,
so they're all working moms also, and so this is
(06:27):
you know, the husband kind of gets to keep his
job and not have the childcare impact it, but the
mom either has to leave her job or the childcare
impacts her job, and at a certain point, the women
reach a breaking point and it can manifest in a
(06:50):
couple of ways, some of them being murdered, some of
them being divorce. But yeah, well you know, it's entertaining.
It's very a lot of this is very even me.
I'll be like, yes, that's right, I agree, But it
(07:10):
does still fill over the top sometimes like kind of
a soap opera kind of vibe, you know. So it's
not that I would necessarily cheer on, but it's something
about like the kind of dramatic yeah, yes, exactly, exactly,
(07:32):
And so it comes to an end that way. And
then usually there's a group of friends. Oh yeah, and
most of these except the two movies, it's a group
of friends women who come together and are you know,
airing their their complaints about how their husband never does
(07:53):
anything and they're so tired and they just want support
and all of this, and they bond over that, and
so it's a very the women are providing support to
each other, but the husband is not. The husband is
notably not only not providing support, gaslighting them, weaponized and
(08:17):
competence all the time. I think a lot of them
do what we were talking about recently now, where they
use therapy terms as like a I need my mean
time and they're like, you think I don't need buy me.
But having this friend group that really understands that of
(08:39):
women and then coming to the realization that they're better
off single and having this friend group of women. There's
a lot worse in some of these of a you know,
kind of abuse emotional or physical. But most of it
is that I feel like we're finally kind of maybe
(08:59):
not finally, but we're really having a moment where we're
discussing the difference of yeah, the mom is working so
hard and taking care of this kid and doing all
of this stuff, and you are making her feel bad
about how she's messed up here, are not doing a
good enough job here, but you're not helping her at all,
(09:24):
and you get to enjoy the fun part of like
being the fun dad or being the dad that shows
up occasionally and doesn't do anything else, doesn't do any
of the hard stuff, doesn't and then you tell her
but you're such a good mom. Though, no, no, and
(09:46):
I'm telling you. People have had enough. So I did
want to talk about This is where there's some spoilers
for not I'm trying to avoid the main spoiler for
(10:07):
all her fault, but I do think it had so
many that I was just like, this is what I'm
talking about, and they just they really hit it toll
of like, oh I do. I really enjoyed the show,
and it was in part because it was sadly so
(10:28):
refreshing that all of the women there was one kind
of woman who was a villain, the PTA mom, the
PTA mom who had the stay at home dad and
was always kind of pressuring all the other women into
doing X, y Z and to feeling bad about whatever
(10:54):
job they were doing as a mom. She was the
one that they would often call if you needed to
back up babysitter because their husbands wouldn't do it. But yeah,
she was definitely like villainous, but I feel like every
other woman, they were so supportive of each other because
they all understood, yeah, we're not getting any support really,
(11:14):
and they do have there are there. Pretty much everybody
in here except one very notable exception, is very well off.
So they do have nanny's which is something most people
can't afford to have. But even so, outside of that,
because they're working all day, it's still on them to
(11:38):
take care of the kid outside of those times. So
Dakota Fannings's character, she befriends Sarah Snoke's character, and Sarah
Snooke is the main character over kind of being annoyed
and tired of being coupled amazing and their husband's not
helping and all this stuff. And then Sarah Snooke's character
goes missing, her child goes missing, and Dakota fannings character
(12:04):
is the first suspect, but they kind of immediately are like,
I know, it wasn't you. And I really liked that
they stuck together and Dakota Fannings character has a scene
that I just I was like, I love this feels
so good where she's like, I lost my son, I
can't do anything. I need help, and Dakota Fannings character
(12:26):
was like, how I'll help you. What is it? I'll
do it? Is it? And she helps her set up
a website and her husband wouldn't do it, like but
you know, having this friend who would, and so I
really enjoyed their relationship. And you just see all of
these dudes who are not good because you know the
(12:51):
name is about the women keep getting blamed for what
happened to this child and it guess what. It turns
out it was a man.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Behind the whole which violence.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, no, it's it's the whole thing, and that guy
thinks he was perfectly in the right, but it's just
so much gas lighting. At one point, uh, Dakota Fannings
character learns that her husband has been lying to her
about an after school show program that he teaches because
(13:25):
he's a teacher and he just like takes that time
to sit in his car and be on his phone
and stuff. And she confronts him and it's like, you
think I wouldn't want this time you've been lying to me.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I think I saw that clip in TikTok because it
was a pretty good line about like, my outing is
me going to pick up groceries and these things, and
your outing is to do for you. My outing is
to take care of y'all. This is not the same,
is that that scene?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It was like I've never seen this show, y'all, so
I'm very coming in like huh. But like I saw that,
I was like, oh damn okay Dakota being a.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Model, yeah, because she'd been lied to and she had
to interact with the PTA because of it. But it
was just really frustrating because he was so she was
taking care of him too. He keeps texting her and
he'll be like, I don't know where to find the blanket.
I don't know where to find the bottle, and she says,
(14:18):
you know, just ask the kid. The kid knows, but
he's doing it, according to her, purposefully to make it
so difficult. She won't ask him to spend time with
their kid, and she says, I would rather. I don't
want our kid, who was a boy to grow up
thinking this is what love is or what support is
(14:40):
so I would rather get divorced than be with you.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Good on her, oh man, that is the correct answer.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yes, hard to talk about the other relationship that's boiling
it majorly, but essentially like Sarah Snox's relationship with her husband.
By that way, that guy Jake Lacy, he just has
a punchable face. They even comment on it.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
It it's the same thing, dude.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think I rememb because again I think I saw
a little clip of it on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
This is how I get my previews.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
He is the most generic looking dude because he was
in a movie with Jenny Slat and I remember when
I first saw him, like he his whole character was
being kind of like what you would expect is a uptight,
mid level corporate job that kind of doesn't climb like that.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Kind of handsome. But you're kind of staring like, but
is he or is he just plane?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think he's in the office. He I think he
was Pete. He was like they just random young.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
People at the very end that had the random relationship
with a Okay, okay, Aaron Hemp.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's him. I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I think he might be right again, though he might
be white dude, like kind of blends in with that
other generic white dude.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Sorry, yeah, no, no, he's They comment on it a
couple of times. But he is like, he is a
very he's a very gaslighting character. He's a very controlling character.
He's very quick to blame his wife for everything while
(16:32):
also not knowing kind of anything at all. And I
just he has a lot of skeletons in his closet
that come out that you're just you can see who
he is and it's gross. And he thinks he's on
the on the like he's the good one. He's the
one who's been taking care of everybody, protecting everybody, and
(16:56):
he's very judgmental about how you should what is the
good way to be? Uh. He has a line at
some point where he says, well, it's clear she didn't
have a man in her life, so she shouldn't have
been raising a child, or like he's a he's that
kind of guy, and it all comes out through this
(17:22):
traumatic event of raising raising a kid. I think there's
only one good dude character in the whole thing, because
even like the father of one of the fathers of
(17:43):
one of the characters is presented as somebody who might be,
you know, not perfect, but someone who cares about about
her No, no, it's really sad. And there's a lot
of other themes around apologizing for what men did, like
(18:06):
women feeling like they have to apologize for what men did.
The pta mom and her husband at one point say well,
you only have one child, so you have plenty of
time to have volunteered. Yep. And then a lot of
(18:31):
other comments and I've thought about this, We've talked about
it in several episodes because I've heard this before, but
a lot of other comments around towards women, why didn't
you sense anything? Why didn't you sense anything was wrong?
Because at one point the nanny is suspected, so they're like,
why didn't you You should have known, and the man
(18:55):
can't even name who it is, but she's getting grilled
on you should have sensed it. And another thing is
the only reason the male detectives caught who did it
is that one of them is actually an engaged parent.
That's the only reason otherwise yep, yep. This is kind
(19:31):
of a personal note because there's a scene where the
husband is not happy with his wife's promotion our job success.
And I remember once I was telling my ex that
I'd gotten a promotion and he immediately said, well, I
think I'm about to get a promotion. Like he didn't
even give me a space to say, oh, congrats or
(19:53):
comparing right immediately, and it just struck me as such
a like okay, well congrats to you. Yeah. And then
there's one line I believe it's in that Dakota Fannings
(20:14):
scene where they break up, but he says I should
still be allowed to be me. It's like, oh, you
think I shouldn't be allowed to be me? Right? There's
also there is a great line that I can't say
with us puiling it completely, but it is about It's
about how these a lot of these women were caring
(20:38):
for their husbands too, as if they were kids. They
were like they were taking care of their family, of
their lunches, of any any appointments that they might have,
or anything they might need. And we talked about that
in our emotional labor episode or that is something that
comes up a lot. And my mom definitely she was
(21:01):
doing all that for my dad. She was the one
contacting his family and sending presents to his family. This
was another job she had to take on, And so
I think, and you know, maybe my mom is a
good parallel because I've said before she after my dad died,
(21:26):
She's told me, like I she'll ask me these questions
that I'm sometimes so sad. She's just asking them now
about being not having a man and having this extra
time and all all of these things. And I feel
(21:46):
like there's some moment that's happening where moms are they
don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Right, I mean, honestly, I wonder of like again, like
as influence, that's what he can be. But going back
on social media and seeing how other people live, and
again we know we have to come back with the
reality that a lot of the is you know, glamorized
or glossed over, whether it's to get that appeal to
look like that you have the perfect life, or you know,
(22:17):
finally understanding from everyone else, like the amount of comments
that I see on incompetent moments of like there was
a big one. I don't know Annie, if you saw
dude apparently went duck hunting and when he comes back,
he sees everything's clean, but also everything's empty and gets
a note with the ring saying because he was supposed
(22:37):
to Apparently he was like, I was going for a
couple of days, and that's how he wrote it. And
then you find out that he was supposed to be
home two days before, but he extended the trip with
her taking care of the kids and her being there
without him whatever, and he does as often. As she
finally was done, she was like, you know what, I've
taken care of the house. I've taken care of this.
Me and the kids are gone. We're done. And the
amount of people were like, yeah, yeah, that's what happened,
(23:01):
like and every single person being like, we know what
you did. Dude, don't act like she just left you.
And men came to the being like it's not that
hard to communicate, it's not that hard to understand that
maybe she needs an outing too, like again, this may
be on the again the very the lowest standard of
standards than just understanding it, and some men coming back
this happened to me and I didn't know it was
(23:22):
too late, like so many of those comments and coming
through social media and not really realizing, oh, women have
actually left and women coming back like this was hard,
but this is better, like type of conversations and being
kind of be like, oh, okay, So I wonder if
finally like being able to recognize and naming things like
(23:43):
weaponizing competence and like seeing that level being like, oh,
this is not normal because all we had lean on
was generational trauma. So like four years we saw what
the parents went through and that they were in a
really bad relationship.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
But you were taught you just stick it out, it's
not to you part.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
And then all of a sudden you see these other
examples of like now we broke that, we broke that cycle.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Like yeah, And I think that it's interesting too that
in like the boomer days of getting married, women didn't
have you know, you couldn't get a credit card and
you might not be able to leave the house easily,
and you didn't you were isolated in a lot of cases.
(24:32):
And so that's been one of my things that I've
really picked up on on these is that there are
there's a group of women that usually they come together
with and they all start complaining, and in at least
several of these cases of the examples I pointed out
(24:52):
in the ender, like I would rather have this group
of friends, they're more supportive if I am taking care
of not only the kid while I have a job,
but also I'm taking care of you and the house,
then that is more work actually in being single. But
we had been told for so long you've got to
have this nuclear family or else what else, what are
(25:14):
you gonna do? But now it's like, actually, it would.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Be easier to be one less person and one less
person to be screamed at by and I could do
Anything's my standard.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
There's and again I think we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Have We definitely will talk about this because there's so
many rollbacks when we see with women's rights. A lot
of people in those same comments that I was talking about,
will say, this is why the Republicans and the Conservatives
and the Christian nationalists want to roll back no fault divorce.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, so they can keep women trapped for longer.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yes, absolutely absolutely. And I did want to go back
to another point you made in that scene where Dakota
Fanning breaks up with her husband. He basically is like, well,
you should have said something, and she said I did,
and I showed it to you all of the time.
(26:06):
You just didn't want to see it. Because I think
a lot of people do say that of like, well,
you never said something, there were no signs, but there were, right.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean, that's the realization when people start saying that
more people have come back with like no, I bet
you she'd already said it, and she just when she
finally gave up, you thought she's quit. You thought that's
oh good, the nagging stops. She has learned that I'm
not gonna change. But what really happened was she no
longer cared and was finding an exit.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah. Yeah, because you weren't listening to her exactly. And
so I I've been enjoying these movies, I what movies
and shows, and I was reading a couple of articles
that were really interesting about them before I came in,
but they were kind of a different topic. I more
wanted to focus on what is this right that's happening
(26:58):
right now? And I think it relates to something we
talked about in your recent happy hours that where I
just people are women, especially are done with being asked
to do all of this and getting no reward and
often having to lose something because of it, and being
(27:20):
blamed for everything that could go wrong. So something's happening.
Some of you have written in about specifically night about
your kind of torn thoughts on how it's presented. And
I think a lot of these have that, like I
said at the top, like they're kind of divisive in
(27:41):
some ways, but I do think that they have resonated
with a lot of people, whether you liked it or not,
but maybe there was a message in and they were like,
oh yeah that but just yeah. I know some of
you have written in about some of these, so I've
read those. I am really behind on listener responding. I've read,
(28:02):
but the response is behind, But I would love to
hear from all of you. I'm kind of hoping to
come back and uh do a bigger episode on this.
I'm hoping I can find some more research than I did,
than I could find, but there's, in my opinion, clearly
(28:27):
something going on. Well, Listeners. If you would like to
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(28:47):
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Hey, this is Danny and smitha and welcome stuff. I've
never told you, Protective, I heard you, And today we
have an episode that I have been hinting at in
recent episodes. This one's kind of a jumble of my thoughts,
(00:30):
but there has been some research done and I do
have some of that. That being said, there are going
to be some spoilers into some very recent media, and
I would say particularly all her.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Faults, which by the way, da Coda Fanning playing a
mom really threw me off.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I want that to be noted at the very top.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, all right. Yeah. It has been interesting because she
was so young when she started as an actor.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, like she grew up on the screen and I
feel like, as a person who was in my twenties
seeing her as a child, this is not okay, I digress.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes it was. It was kind of bizarre. Nothing we
talk about. None of them are sponsors currently. This is
just something that's been on my mind, and it feels
like it's been on a lot of people's minds, which
is sort of the point I'm going to make. But uh,
it is kind of related to the single mother trope
(01:29):
that we see in Horror that Samantha, you talked about
in our religious horror episodes, movies like Babaduck Conjuring two.
We didn't you know, I didn't even include the Exorcist
in that, but the Extioucist.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Oh yeah, well, because like she where was the father?
He wasn't. They weren't divorced, right.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
He was like overseas, but he wouldn't even talk to
them on the phone.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Like yeah, absent father is a big yes.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yes, So all of that is related. And this is
something I've been thinking about for a while because right now,
and by right now, I mean in the past like
two or three years, we are having some kind of
moment in entertainment around usually middle aged white mothers, usually
pretty well off middle aged white mothers, having had enough,
(02:23):
like done with their husbands. They are done. So right now,
two of the movies that are inspiring big conversations around
this are If I Had Legs, I'DE Kick You and
Die My Love, which is also about postpardon depression. And
one of the biggest shows is All Her Fault. And
(02:43):
in recent times we've also had Pretty Little Liars and
Night Bitch. And it's pretty striking how much of these
movies are pointing to the fact that moms which is
not okay, and their husbands suck and maybe we should
murder them. Something is going on. I'm telling you so
(03:04):
I have I know what happens in all of these
movies and shows. I haven't seen if I had leg
Sidekick You or Die My Love, but I know what happens.
I kind of knew what happened in Die My Love
before I even knew they were making a movie about it.
But it is very When I was watching All Her Faults,
(03:25):
which I did enjoy, I just I just was struck
by this is this is a something is going on.
This is a pattern I'm seeing, and yeah, the moms
are not okay, and the I do want to say also,
a lot of these movies are sometimes in good faith
(03:48):
and bad faith movies and shows they're very divisive about.
Sometimes it's like men being no, and other times it's
just like that wasn't for me. But I think they are.
They're resonating with a lot of people, and they're causing
a lot of conversation. And I'm not a mother, and
(04:14):
it's amazing how often I connect them. Yeah. See, I've
been treated like that in a relationship. I've been treated
this way in a relationship with a man, and it
just feels like there's some kind of moment that's happening.
And oddly enough, I tried to look into it right
(04:38):
before this, and maybe I just wasn't using the right
search terms, but it doesn't feel like there's been much
written about it. But I'm telling you there's something happening.
And I did find a couple of very recent studies.
They were done during the pandemic, and it was saying, yeah,
(04:58):
moms are not okay, like not doing well. Their mental
health is going down, their physical health is going down
in a noticeable, measurable way. And most all of the
things that I'm talking about here are set like in
our current times. So one of the big things that
(05:23):
comes up in these it's it's usually it goes like this.
In these things. A woman is, you know, happily married,
they have a kid, and then suddenly it's very much
on her to stay home and take care of the kid,
(05:43):
or if she doesn't stay home, it's still she takes
care of the kid, whether that's finding a babysitter or
nanny or whatever it is. She's the one in charge
of the kid, and that's when the fractures and their
relationship start to show up. And then I really appreciate
(06:04):
how in a lot of these it's made clear they
you know, obviously they love their kids, but it's when
you're just at home with a kid who can't really
speak to you or can't really it's very isolating and
almost I think in every example, they have a career,
so they're all working moms also, and so this is
(06:27):
you know, the husband kind of gets to keep his
job and not have the childcare impact it, but the
mom either has to leave her job or the childcare
impacts her job, and at a certain point, the women
reach a breaking point and it can manifest in a
(06:50):
couple of ways, some of them being murdered, some of
them being divorce. But yeah, well you know, it's entertaining.
It's very a lot of this is very even me.
I'll be like, yes, that's right, I agree, But it
(07:10):
does still fill over the top sometimes like kind of
a soap opera kind of vibe, you know. So it's
not that I would necessarily cheer on, but it's something
about like the kind of dramatic yeah, yes, exactly, exactly,
(07:32):
And so it comes to an end that way. And
then usually there's a group of friends. Oh yeah, and
most of these except the two movies, it's a group
of friends women who come together and are you know,
airing their their complaints about how their husband never does
(07:53):
anything and they're so tired and they just want support
and all of this, and they bond over that, and
so it's a very the women are providing support to
each other, but the husband is not. The husband is
notably not only not providing support, gaslighting them, weaponized and
(08:17):
competence all the time. I think a lot of them
do what we were talking about recently now, where they
use therapy terms as like a I need my mean
time and they're like, you think I don't need buy me.
But having this friend group that really understands that of
(08:39):
women and then coming to the realization that they're better
off single and having this friend group of women. There's
a lot worse in some of these of a you know,
kind of abuse emotional or physical. But most of it
is that I feel like we're finally kind of maybe
(08:59):
not finally, but we're really having a moment where we're
discussing the difference of yeah, the mom is working so
hard and taking care of this kid and doing all
of this stuff, and you are making her feel bad
about how she's messed up here, are not doing a
good enough job here, but you're not helping her at all,
(09:24):
and you get to enjoy the fun part of like
being the fun dad or being the dad that shows
up occasionally and doesn't do anything else, doesn't do any
of the hard stuff, doesn't and then you tell her
but you're such a good mom. Though, no, no, and
(09:46):
I'm telling you. People have had enough. So I did
want to talk about This is where there's some spoilers
for not I'm trying to avoid the main spoiler for
(10:07):
all her fault, but I do think it had so
many that I was just like, this is what I'm
talking about, and they just they really hit it toll
of like, oh I do. I really enjoyed the show,
and it was in part because it was sadly so
(10:28):
refreshing that all of the women there was one kind
of woman who was a villain, the PTA mom, the
PTA mom who had the stay at home dad and
was always kind of pressuring all the other women into
doing X, y Z and to feeling bad about whatever
(10:54):
job they were doing as a mom. She was the
one that they would often call if you needed to
back up babysitter because their husbands wouldn't do it. But yeah,
she was definitely like villainous, but I feel like every
other woman, they were so supportive of each other because
they all understood, yeah, we're not getting any support really,
(11:14):
and they do have there are there. Pretty much everybody
in here except one very notable exception, is very well off.
So they do have nanny's which is something most people
can't afford to have. But even so, outside of that,
because they're working all day, it's still on them to
(11:38):
take care of the kid outside of those times. So
Dakota Fannings's character, she befriends Sarah Snoke's character, and Sarah
Snooke is the main character over kind of being annoyed
and tired of being coupled amazing and their husband's not
helping and all this stuff. And then Sarah Snooke's character
goes missing, her child goes missing, and Dakota fannings character
(12:04):
is the first suspect, but they kind of immediately are like,
I know, it wasn't you. And I really liked that
they stuck together and Dakota Fannings character has a scene
that I just I was like, I love this feels
so good where she's like, I lost my son, I
can't do anything. I need help, and Dakota Fannings character
(12:26):
was like, how I'll help you. What is it? I'll
do it? Is it? And she helps her set up
a website and her husband wouldn't do it, like but
you know, having this friend who would, and so I
really enjoyed their relationship. And you just see all of
these dudes who are not good because you know the
(12:51):
name is about the women keep getting blamed for what
happened to this child and it guess what. It turns
out it was a man.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Behind the whole which violence.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, no, it's it's the whole thing, and that guy
thinks he was perfectly in the right, but it's just
so much gas lighting. At one point, uh, Dakota Fannings
character learns that her husband has been lying to her
about an after school show program that he teaches because
(13:25):
he's a teacher and he just like takes that time
to sit in his car and be on his phone
and stuff. And she confronts him and it's like, you
think I wouldn't want this time you've been lying to me.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I think I saw that clip in TikTok because it
was a pretty good line about like, my outing is
me going to pick up groceries and these things, and
your outing is to do for you. My outing is
to take care of y'all. This is not the same,
is that that scene?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It was like I've never seen this show, y'all, so
I'm very coming in like huh. But like I saw that,
I was like, oh damn okay Dakota being a.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Model, yeah, because she'd been lied to and she had
to interact with the PTA because of it. But it
was just really frustrating because he was so she was
taking care of him too. He keeps texting her and
he'll be like, I don't know where to find the blanket.
I don't know where to find the bottle, and she says,
(14:18):
you know, just ask the kid. The kid knows, but
he's doing it, according to her, purposefully to make it
so difficult. She won't ask him to spend time with
their kid, and she says, I would rather. I don't
want our kid, who was a boy to grow up
thinking this is what love is or what support is
(14:40):
so I would rather get divorced than be with you.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Good on her, oh man, that is the correct answer.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yes, hard to talk about the other relationship that's boiling
it majorly, but essentially like Sarah Snox's relationship with her husband.
By that way, that guy Jake Lacy, he just has
a punchable face. They even comment on it.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
It it's the same thing, dude.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think I rememb because again I think I saw
a little clip of it on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
This is how I get my previews.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
He is the most generic looking dude because he was
in a movie with Jenny Slat and I remember when
I first saw him, like he his whole character was
being kind of like what you would expect is a uptight,
mid level corporate job that kind of doesn't climb like that.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Kind of handsome. But you're kind of staring like, but
is he or is he just plane?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think he's in the office. He I think he
was Pete. He was like they just random young.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
People at the very end that had the random relationship
with a Okay, okay, Aaron Hemp.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's him. I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I think he might be right again, though he might
be white dude, like kind of blends in with that
other generic white dude.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Sorry, yeah, no, no, he's They comment on it a
couple of times. But he is like, he is a
very he's a very gaslighting character. He's a very controlling character.
He's very quick to blame his wife for everything while
(16:32):
also not knowing kind of anything at all. And I
just he has a lot of skeletons in his closet
that come out that you're just you can see who
he is and it's gross. And he thinks he's on
the on the like he's the good one. He's the
one who's been taking care of everybody, protecting everybody, and
(16:56):
he's very judgmental about how you should what is the
good way to be? Uh. He has a line at
some point where he says, well, it's clear she didn't
have a man in her life, so she shouldn't have
been raising a child, or like he's a he's that
kind of guy, and it all comes out through this
(17:22):
traumatic event of raising raising a kid. I think there's
only one good dude character in the whole thing, because
even like the father of one of the fathers of
(17:43):
one of the characters is presented as somebody who might be,
you know, not perfect, but someone who cares about about
her No, no, it's really sad. And there's a lot
of other themes around apologizing for what men did, like
(18:06):
women feeling like they have to apologize for what men did.
The pta mom and her husband at one point say well,
you only have one child, so you have plenty of
time to have volunteered. Yep. And then a lot of
(18:31):
other comments and I've thought about this, We've talked about
it in several episodes because I've heard this before, but
a lot of other comments around towards women, why didn't
you sense anything? Why didn't you sense anything was wrong?
Because at one point the nanny is suspected, so they're like,
why didn't you You should have known, and the man
(18:55):
can't even name who it is, but she's getting grilled
on you should have sensed it. And another thing is
the only reason the male detectives caught who did it
is that one of them is actually an engaged parent.
That's the only reason otherwise yep, yep. This is kind
(19:31):
of a personal note because there's a scene where the
husband is not happy with his wife's promotion our job success.
And I remember once I was telling my ex that
I'd gotten a promotion and he immediately said, well, I
think I'm about to get a promotion. Like he didn't
even give me a space to say, oh, congrats or
(19:53):
comparing right immediately, and it just struck me as such
a like okay, well congrats to you. Yeah. And then
there's one line I believe it's in that Dakota Fannings
(20:14):
scene where they break up, but he says I should
still be allowed to be me. It's like, oh, you
think I shouldn't be allowed to be me? Right? There's
also there is a great line that I can't say
with us puiling it completely, but it is about It's
about how these a lot of these women were caring
(20:38):
for their husbands too, as if they were kids. They
were like they were taking care of their family, of
their lunches, of any any appointments that they might have,
or anything they might need. And we talked about that
in our emotional labor episode or that is something that
comes up a lot. And my mom definitely she was
(21:01):
doing all that for my dad. She was the one
contacting his family and sending presents to his family. This
was another job she had to take on, And so
I think, and you know, maybe my mom is a
good parallel because I've said before she after my dad died,
(21:26):
She's told me, like I she'll ask me these questions
that I'm sometimes so sad. She's just asking them now
about being not having a man and having this extra
time and all all of these things. And I feel
(21:46):
like there's some moment that's happening where moms are they
don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Right, I mean, honestly, I wonder of like again, like
as influence, that's what he can be. But going back
on social media and seeing how other people live, and
again we know we have to come back with the
reality that a lot of the is you know, glamorized
or glossed over, whether it's to get that appeal to
look like that you have the perfect life, or you know,
(22:17):
finally understanding from everyone else, like the amount of comments
that I see on incompetent moments of like there was
a big one. I don't know Annie, if you saw
dude apparently went duck hunting and when he comes back,
he sees everything's clean, but also everything's empty and gets
a note with the ring saying because he was supposed
(22:37):
to Apparently he was like, I was going for a
couple of days, and that's how he wrote it. And
then you find out that he was supposed to be
home two days before, but he extended the trip with
her taking care of the kids and her being there
without him whatever, and he does as often. As she
finally was done, she was like, you know what, I've
taken care of the house. I've taken care of this.
Me and the kids are gone. We're done. And the
amount of people were like, yeah, yeah, that's what happened,
(23:01):
like and every single person being like, we know what
you did. Dude, don't act like she just left you.
And men came to the being like it's not that
hard to communicate, it's not that hard to understand that
maybe she needs an outing too, like again, this may
be on the again the very the lowest standard of
standards than just understanding it, and some men coming back
this happened to me and I didn't know it was
(23:22):
too late, like so many of those comments and coming
through social media and not really realizing, oh, women have
actually left and women coming back like this was hard,
but this is better, like type of conversations and being
kind of be like, oh, okay, So I wonder if
finally like being able to recognize and naming things like
(23:43):
weaponizing competence and like seeing that level being like, oh,
this is not normal because all we had lean on
was generational trauma. So like four years we saw what
the parents went through and that they were in a
really bad relationship.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
But you were taught you just stick it out, it's
not to you part.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
And then all of a sudden you see these other
examples of like now we broke that, we broke that cycle.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Like yeah, And I think that it's interesting too that
in like the boomer days of getting married, women didn't
have you know, you couldn't get a credit card and
you might not be able to leave the house easily,
and you didn't you were isolated in a lot of cases.
(24:32):
And so that's been one of my things that I've
really picked up on on these is that there are
there's a group of women that usually they come together
with and they all start complaining, and in at least
several of these cases of the examples I pointed out
(24:52):
in the ender, like I would rather have this group
of friends, they're more supportive if I am taking care
of not only the kid while I have a job,
but also I'm taking care of you and the house,
then that is more work actually in being single. But
we had been told for so long you've got to
have this nuclear family or else what else, what are
(25:14):
you gonna do? But now it's like, actually, it would.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Be easier to be one less person and one less
person to be screamed at by and I could do
Anything's my standard.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
There's and again I think we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Have We definitely will talk about this because there's so
many rollbacks when we see with women's rights. A lot
of people in those same comments that I was talking about,
will say, this is why the Republicans and the Conservatives
and the Christian nationalists want to roll back no fault divorce.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, so they can keep women trapped for longer.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yes, absolutely absolutely. And I did want to go back
to another point you made in that scene where Dakota
Fanning breaks up with her husband. He basically is like, well,
you should have said something, and she said I did,
and I showed it to you all of the time.
(26:06):
You just didn't want to see it. Because I think
a lot of people do say that of like, well,
you never said something, there were no signs, but there were, right.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean, that's the realization when people start saying that
more people have come back with like no, I bet
you she'd already said it, and she just when she
finally gave up, you thought she's quit. You thought that's
oh good, the nagging stops. She has learned that I'm
not gonna change. But what really happened was she no
longer cared and was finding an exit.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah. Yeah, because you weren't listening to her exactly. And
so I I've been enjoying these movies, I what movies
and shows, and I was reading a couple of articles
that were really interesting about them before I came in,
but they were kind of a different topic. I more
wanted to focus on what is this right that's happening
(26:58):
right now? And I think it relates to something we
talked about in your recent happy hours that where I
just people are women, especially are done with being asked
to do all of this and getting no reward and
often having to lose something because of it, and being
(27:20):
blamed for everything that could go wrong. So something's happening.
Some of you have written in about specifically night about
your kind of torn thoughts on how it's presented. And
I think a lot of these have that, like I
said at the top, like they're kind of divisive in
(27:41):
some ways, but I do think that they have resonated
with a lot of people, whether you liked it or not,
but maybe there was a message in and they were like,
oh yeah that but just yeah. I know some of
you have written in about some of these, so I've
read those. I am really behind on listener responding. I've read,
(28:02):
but the response is behind, But I would love to
hear from all of you. I'm kind of hoping to
come back and uh do a bigger episode on this.
I'm hoping I can find some more research than I did,
than I could find, but there's, in my opinion, clearly
(28:27):
something going on. Well, Listeners. If you would like to
contact us, you can. You can email us at hello
at Stuffnever Told You dot com. You can find us
on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube and rory. You have new merchandise on comm Bureau,
(28:47):
and we have a book you can get where if
you get your books. Thanks as always, to our super
producer Costenior Executive ducer, My Ander, contributor Joey, thank you
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You
is production by Heart Radio. For more podcast from my
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