January 3, 2026 • 36 mins
Katie Mitchell's new book Prose to the People celebrates the joy and power of Black bookstores. Katie joins us to talk about the process of writing the book, the importance of Black bookstores, and why it's important to preserve their history in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha A lot from Stuff
I'll Never Told You Protection by Her Radio. And as
we're entering the new year, we are still going back
to some of our favorites, our favorite episodes of twenty
(00:27):
twenty five, and one that we really loved was this
interview that we did with Katie Mitchell, friend of the show,
about her book pros to the People, and we ended
up going to talk about it and book signing and
it was just a really beautiful thing. If you haven't
(00:48):
checked it out, it is just a really beautiful moving book.
It is highly highly recommend it, and this conversation was great.
It was just a fantastic conversation. So hopefully we'll get
to have her back on one day, but in the meantime,
please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and
(01:11):
Samantha a ky Stuff I Never Told You A production
of iHeartRadio. And welcome back to the show, Katie Mitchell.
It's been a minute, but we are so glad to
have you back. Can you introduce yourself to our audience please.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, thank you for having me back. I'm Katie Mitchell
and I am the author of Prose to the People,
a celebration of black bookstores.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yes, and last time you were on here, you were
with our good friend Eves talking about on theme and
the power of black storytelling, and you mentioned that you
were working on this book about black bookstores and were like, yes,
you must come back. You complete it, and here you are,
(02:06):
and it's coming out as we record this very very soon.
First of all, congrats, Yes, it is an amazing book
and we'll be talking all about it. But can you
give us the rundown of this book?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I say, pro to the people is a exploration
of black bookstores across space and time. So I had
the opportunity to travel all around the country talking to
black bookstore owners. But I also included bookstores that no
longer exist. So the book starts in eighteen thirty, which
most people don't realize that we had black bookstores in
(02:46):
eighteen thirty, and it goes all the way to present day.
So I hope that people will look at the book
and say, oh, hey, I want to go to this
store when I'm in a particular city. But for the
ones that are closed, I wanted people to be able
to visit them in a way too.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, And this is something that's correct me if I'm wrong,
but that it was very near and dear to your
heart and kind of your interests in what you do,
right exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, like you said, we were talking about black storytelling
last time I was on and so black bookstores, of
course like cradle all all of our stories. So I'm
really excited about pros being almost out into the world.
And yeah, I'm a bookseller along with my mom, so
I thought it was a perfect fit to bring this
book to the people.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yes, and there were definitely some stories that were in
there because we were all in Atlanta, and I was like, yes,
I want to go and check this out. Can you
tell us what made you decide to write this book?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I think it was just like a deep curiosity.
I've seen how transformational black bookstores have been to myself,
and I see them as transformational as say black church
or black colleges. But I found that they were understudied institutions,
which I found ironic because they cradle all our history
(04:09):
and we haven't told the history of the black bookstore yet,
and so that led me to want to learn more
and to share it with others.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And it's as you said, it was quite the process.
It sounds like that you spent these two years traveling,
you talked to a wide variety of people. How was
that process for you and what are some of the
places that maybe stand out?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, it was a lot of people, owners, customers, family members,
you know. I had one instance in Atlanta where I
was just talking about the book and I was saying
that this bookstore in Harlem called Liberation Bookstore was in
the book and she was like, oh, yeah, like that's
my auntie. And I was like huh. And I was
(05:02):
telling her how like I couldn't get pictures for that
store because Pros is filled with pictures and a femerara,
it's very visual and designed book. And I was telling
her I was having a hard time finding pictures and
she was like, I have pictures. And I was like, oh,
can you bring them like tomorrow. She's like yeah, and
she like gave me the original pictures. I was like, no,
it's okay, I'll just take a scan of it. She's like, no,
(05:23):
I want you to have it. I want it to
be in the book. And so it was like kind
of those like very like serendipitous encounters that made me
feel like the book was just like supposed to happen,
you know, like meeting people who are just so willing
to help with the book. But yeah, traveling across the
country and talking to people like I met so many
(05:43):
elders who like really told me so much about what
was going on in the sixties and you know, the seventies, eighties, nineties,
and that was really helpful too to get their perspective.
And some of them had even written about black bookstores
from like the eighties and nineties, so that was helpful
to incorporate that in the book and to be able
(06:04):
to share their work and my work was really fun.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, I mean it was so cool. You went, you
went all over. This is amazing. Was there something that
you learned during your travels that really stuck with you.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
One of the things that I kind of knew about
the bookstore, but it kept coming up in the reporting
was the connection to incarcerated people. And a lot of
the bookstores have a component where they're making sure that
books are getting to our incarcerated siblings, and that goes
(06:39):
back from the sixties or even at the beginning, because
the first black bookstore owner in the United States was abolitionists,
so he was freeing people, like freeing the bodies and
minds at the same time, right, And so I found
that black bookstore owners really tried to take care of
those who are incarcerated and people that the state attempts
(07:02):
to disappear from our communities. So you'll find that at
Radical Hood Library in la which is owned by the
Rapper No Name, and even the Black Book Who which
was owned by Paul Coates towannahassee Coats's dad in Baltimore.
So he had a program where he was sending books
(07:23):
to incarcerated Black panthers and making sure that they knew
what was going on in the outside. So and that's
something that I found really unique to black bookstores, right,
Like you don't really hear about like grocery stores or
even museums or you know, dentist offices really caring about
what's going on with folks in prison in a in
a collective way.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So that was one thing that I learned.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Wow, Like that's an incredible level of history that I
didn't even think on, And that makes so much sense
in just in general, like the tight knit community that
these bookstores have built, Like just the fact that you
in Atlanta are connecting to people in Harlem just in
conversation in a bookstore, which is amazing. And you also
earlier talked about the fact that it is an institution,
(08:08):
that the black bookstores are an institution in itself. So
can you kind of elaborate and define black bookstores and
can you give us a brief history and the importance
that they have left and continue to do.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So I defined black bookstores in prose to the people
as a bookstore that specializes in black publications. And I
make the distinction between a black bookstore and a black
owned bookstore, which a black owned bookstore could be just
a black person who owns a book store that carries
all types of books that don't specialize in black publications.
(08:41):
And yeah, they started, to the best of our knowledge
with David Ruggles in the eighteen thirties and abolitionists who
actually helped free Frederick Douglas. Him and his first wife
were married at his bookstore, little known fact, and I
think that set the tone for black bookstores in the
United States of being sites of and we see this
(09:02):
throughout history as black bookstores being at the vanguard of
social movement. So the abolitionist movement, the civil rights movement,
the Black Panther, black Power movement, black arts movement, and
now the movement for Black Lives in Harlem, Malcolm X
had his home bookstore, and like all the pictures that
you see of him out in the street in Harlem,
he's usually in front of that bookstore, you know, gathering
(09:25):
people and trying to you know, get people to change
their minds as he's trying to change society.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, and you you talk a lot about how they
serve as much more than a book store, Like they
offer these places for social ideas, but also things like yeah,
getting books two incarcerated people and just how that really
sets them apart. And on top of that, you just
(09:52):
you have so many amazing, amazing stories in here with
just this why range of bookstores, some that specialize in
maybe like cookbooks or children's literature or a sci fi
book vending machine. How did you choose? How did you
(10:14):
choose these stores?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That was a doozy I think when I proposed the book,
I was like.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yeah, I don't have like twenty four stores. It'll be cool.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And then of course, once you go down the rabbit
hole of actually doing the research, so many more stores
make it into the book, But I really focused on
that definition of specializing in black publications, and I think
as a journalist a lot of it is access. So
who did I have access to, who was a cooperative source,
(10:45):
who showed up to the interviews, things like that on
a practical level, and then yeah, like trying to make
an even distribution of regions, but then also including like
you said, those specialty store to show the different ways
that black booksellers show up and you know, showcase their
(11:06):
interest through their inventory. I thought would be really cool.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
It's so good And when I'm reading through this, they're
like you had specialized bookstores and one it says to
the black girls, specifically to the black girls, and it
was such an amazing like ideal, Like, yes, this is
something that is set up for a welcome community where
a lot of times they may not feel like they
are welcome. Like we talk about women in stem and
(11:31):
all the time, and like how long it took in
general to feel like they could be a part of
that industry or that community in general. But with all
of that, some of these stories are so great and
based around black women. Can you share one with us
or something that listeners can look forward to specifically, I
kind of gave you one away.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I know, Yeah, the one you're referencing is called Adana.
It's in Bedstye in New York, and her story is
really cool. I liked it because it was eclectic. She
had her father's like old vinyls. I was like, oh,
could I have that? She's like, girl, no, this my
day is like stop playing. But she has like really
(12:09):
cool events there. They do like a lot of like
things with plants and just like very hands on like
sewing things and like crafty things, which I think, like
is really cool because like sometimes when you're like in adulthood,
you're like over the club, like let's just hang out
at the bookstore and have a good time and meet friends.
(12:30):
And while I was there, I could see people like
becoming friends, like sharing their birth charts and stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I was like, this is so girly. But I loved
it because it's like.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
That's what that's who it was meant for, and I
could see it happening in real time. Another one that
I thought was really fun was the sci fi book
vending machine, which is just such a great idea, especially
with like rent being so high and not every community has.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
A brick and mortar bookstore.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
But being able to be able to provide books that
are really curated and thoughtful in a small space I
think is really cool. And like they're into sci fi,
it gives a little bit of sci fi energy having
a book vending machine there too. So those are two
that I think readers will really enjoy.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I thought about Annie in that moment because I was like,
she would love this.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I do the sci fi.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Vending machines coming in using a machine to get to it. Anyway,
I was having a fun time reading through these. These
are such an amazing inventive like innovative ideas and distributing
books because it needs more and more of these things.
And with that, like as I'm looking through all of
the pictures, first of all, I'm like, I don't know why.
Immediately the smell of an old bookstore hit me the
(13:40):
minute I opened up your book, Like look through your book,
I was like, wow, I can smell it. I can
fill the arthiness when you walk into the comforting areas
with all the books surrounding you.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
It's one of my favorite things to do is to
peruse all the titles and just smell the old books.
There's something to it. And with that, I know that's
something that you've been complimented. And like this book has
already been celebrated because of these beautiful images. Can you
talk about all these pictures that you came and then
of course the ending picture like with you with all
the different people that you've met throughout your tour.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Was so cool. But anyway, can you talk about the
images in your book?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I mean when I set out to write Pros, I
wanted it to feel like a bookstore. So that's a
very high compliment you just gave me. But like when
you go into a bookstore, you don't just hear from
one person, you don't just see one thing.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So I wanted to be.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Filled with multiple voices, multiple genres, and multimedia because I
wanted people to feel like they were in a black
bookstore while reading it and to understand that comfort. So
even in the some of the bookstores that don't exist,
I'm always asking them like, what did it smell?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Like? What were y'all saying? What were y'all talking about?
Was there a fried chicken place there? Did the smell
come in?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Like I was really trying to capture what it felt
to be in those stores, and that was the goal
from the beginning. I was lucky enough to be able
to go into archives and find old pictures from the
stories that don't exist, or like I said, some people
would just offer up their pictures. There's a lot of ephemera,
so you see like the flyers and the brochures that
people were putting out for their bookstores and different events
(15:13):
that were going on at the time. But yeah, I
wanted it to be very interactive and something that you
can come back to multiple times and find something new
each time.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
I will say also, one of the things that really
permeated throughout these pictures is just the joy. There was
so much joy in having people celebrate their own books
and the releases, or sitting with people that they love
the picture specifically, I think it's like Rosa Defie, yes,
and like all the people that came through her path
and like her smile. There was so much joy in
(15:54):
these images, and you did such a fantastic job and
relaying their stories, and I know you had like interviewed
a lot of them. Was that something important that you
wanted to show in showcase.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, I wanted to capture everyone's personality and I think
oftentimes those black stories sometimes we only get shined when
something's like very terrible is going on. And I was like,
this isn't that, Like this is a celebration, and you know,
being in the community, I understand that, like, guess, bad
things do happen, but like we're not always like in turmoil.
(16:27):
We do have joy. We are celebrating, we're with our
friends and family, you know, we're listening to future and
just hanging out sometimes. And that's what I wanted to
capture with those interviews.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well done, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yes, it definitely gives the vibe of I've stepped into
a bookstore, which is really awesome because Samantha and I
we like when we travel together, we always go to
bookstores and we go to libraries. It's just we love it.
(17:04):
So this is this is such a great a great concept,
and it's something Yeah, I think a lot of people
don't know about. One of the things you talk about
in here, and people you interviewed talked about a lot,
is that there's a lot of discussion around knowledge being power,
(17:24):
the power of learning, the power of teaching that knowledge
Can you expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
In the introduction, which was written by Nikki Giovanni, she says,
pro to the people reminds us that black is beautiful,
but knowledge is power, and that is a quote from
one of the pre eminent booksellers, Lewis Michau. And I
think what we're getting at is that black books, but
(17:55):
books in general, are very liberating. And in this country,
the project of black reading, black writing, black publishing, there's
always been tension there. It was illegal for us to
read when we were enslaved here, and now you.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
See book bands.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Disproportionately affecting black books, and there's something there where they
attack the whole project of black thought. And so I
think as black people, we know the importance of books
and reading and knowledge and passing that down, and we
understand if we don't keep that tradition going, what could
happen and what those who do not want to see
us flourish would like to happen. And I think that's
(18:41):
a trend or a through line that you see from
the eighteen thirties with David Ruggles as the first black
bookstore owner to current day.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yes, well, speaking of current day, this is jumping ahead
a bit in our outline of question, but the book
book does have a lot of discussion as well about
the importance of preserving history. And as you said, right
now we're seeing such an active pushback on teaching black
(19:16):
history and schools. We're seeing so many book bands, So
can you speak to that and why it's this preserving
of history and these the black book stores that are
doing it is so vital right now?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think the story of the black
book story is unfolding in past and present tense, like
with the book showing the book stories that no longer
exist in conversation with those that do. It's the same
with our history. And if you don't know what happened
before and what the state or the powers that be
(19:56):
did to try to stop the people that came before us,
you can think like, oh wow, this is so bad,
like no one's ever gone through this, Like what are
we going to do? But the lessons are right there,
Like book bands aren't new. Really, they're kind of tame
compared to what you know, the FBI was doing before.
There's so many instances of black bookstores being.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Firebombed and flooded.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Black booksellers have been arrested, framed, and you know there's
something too. Knowing that you as a black person reading
or selling books is so threatening and you think, what
are in these books that they don't want us to read?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
And to me makes me want to read them more.
It makes me want to know more.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
But yeah, it's been happening, and it's still happening unfortunately,
but we are our elders and our ancestors have shown
us what we need to do.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, that's the like good news bad news situation of
like we've seen this before. It's been bad, but we
know we can do this because we have survived this
and we being so many marginalized people, but specifically of
the black community, and it's kind of and I've seen
it in the black community here in Atlanta and where
they're just like, yeah, it's been happening. Where have you been,
(21:07):
like to the rest of the community and be like,
we've been doing the work. Now you're just noticing it.
And it's a reminder and that both of these things
is why not only do the black community and your
book and so much more that celebrate them pushing back
And it's to that point of understanding that part of
the rebellion is celebrating and making sure that we are
(21:30):
still acknowledging what is happening and how that that you exist,
we as a system exist and will not be tied
down or quiet. And I love that that's what this
book seems to represent. It's such a perfect timing and
bringing this type of joy but understanding and power of learning,
and the fact that you're giving us an amazing list
(21:54):
because I know you talked about so many of them,
but then in the later part of the book you
give even more. You're like, oh, yeah, only about these things,
these stores, but there's so much more, and that's powerful
in itself.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I think being able to have a record of what
has been done is really cool. Even some of the
bookstores that I have full profiles of have closed since
my reporting. But it's like, this is a snapshot of
what was going on during this time. This is what
we were thinking, this is what we are doing. And
then having the list in the back, I thought was
(22:25):
important to show the ones that are going on now,
like I called it, like more to explore, and then
the ones that have closed, the list of those to
say like we were here, we did this this was
the project that all of these stores and all these
people were a part of.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
And the way the internet is going.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Out, how they're just a racing stuff left and right,
Like we need something printed and tangible so we can
have that.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yes, and this is such a great asset.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes, yeah, Well I know you've been you've been talking
about this throughout, But why do you think that it
is so important that we do keep this history? Why
is it Why are black bookstores in black libraries so important?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I mean, as I said, they hold our histories and
they deserve for their histories to be told. They've done
so much in each movement in the United States that
have involved black people, and they're still out here doing
a lot, a lot of work. Many of the booksellers
have printing presses where they're putting out information themselves. That
(23:41):
was something that I saw as a trend between like
the sixties and nineties that that was really important to people.
And I think that kind of is what pros is about,
like putting out your own story. I was very lucky
that people trusted me to tell this story, but I
do think it.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Came about because of like who I am.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I'm a black bookseller, and I'm telling the story of
black booksellers. And I think it's important to tell your
own story and tell it as authentic as possible, and
like you said, like capturing the full breath of it,
like not just the pain, but also celebrating that joy
as well.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
And just because we have to ask, I think we
talked about this a little last time you were on
about the book writing process in general.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
How was that for you?
Speaker 5 (24:29):
I know you weres a different because you actually were
able to be more interactive and traveling, but that could
also be more.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Stressful and try to do that I was the writing
process for you?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, I mean I have, of course not written anything
like this before. It was a lot of research. I
think before my writing had been kind of like more
force person, and I tried to keep myself as out
of it as possible. I like peek in a little
bit at some point with booksellers that I got like
super close with, but that was different. And then also
(24:59):
I had contributors who are in the book, who wrote
essays and poems, and so that was a new experience
of being an editor while I'm being a writer too
and kind of walking them through what I know will
be the end result, because there isn't There hasn't been
a book like this before. So telling people like, yeah,
I'm doing anthology on black bookstores, and I kind of
(25:20):
have the vision in my head, but trying to get
them to the point where their piece will fit into
that seamlessly was a different experience. But I think it
worked out so well. I'm so happy with all the contributors.
They're so smart. I have such deep relationships to these bookstores.
We have people who are biographers of certain booksellers, people
(25:40):
who were managers past managers of the bookstores, so they
really have like these deep relationships, and I think it
shines through too.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
No, you did an amazing job incorporating different styles into
one book. Like you're having an interview, then you were
having an essay, and you were having the poetry. I
was like wow, And then you're doing the excerpts and
the pictures of like just trying to do it all,
fitting all that in the one book, and kudos it
looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I was like, I'm gonna be Lauren Hill, do my
do my big one on my first one and be out.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I have a feeling this is not going to be
the only one. This is so good.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
That's what some people are saying. I don't know, I
don't know, just just.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Putting it out there.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
I'm just gonna you know, that's my prediction, but I'm
just gonna.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Well.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I also love that so much too, because it does
go back to the you know, making it feel like
you're in a bookstore. Here's all these different types of
writing you can find. Yeah, it was just great because
I was like, oh, yes, I want to go I
maybe want to go read a bunch of books, like
check out a bunch of books or something, the whole bookstore. Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Even some of the contributors like they don't agree with
each other. And I like that too, because you go
into a bookstore, there's going to be a book that says, like,
this guy is orange, and that'skind of one. There's going
to be one that says the sky is blue, and
you get to read both and decide for yourself what
color is the sky. So there's different different opinions, a
diversity of thought throughout, and I think someone will find
(27:14):
something that really speaks to them throughout the book.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
One of the like Nerdier points I latched onto because yes,
Samantha and I have gone through the book writing process.
Is that there was a discussion about kind of the
whole ecosystem of books, about like the publisher, the owner,
the libraries, the authors, and how these all these pieces
(27:50):
work together are don't and how people view how it
should work or how it should look versus how it does.
Do you have any thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, So a lot of the booksellers, I'd say, in
like the sixties, we're also doing publishing, and then I
think a little bit after that, the book signing, kind
of author celebrity of it all came together. So it's
interesting to see the different ways it has evolved. So
I'm talking to a bookseller who had a store in
(28:21):
the sixties. I was like, oh, what were your author events?
Like it's like author events, we didn't do that type
of stuff. We were selling books and publishing books. And
then I'm talking to someone in the nineties. They're like, yeah,
Terry McMillan saved our store, you know, Waiting to Excel.
We sold a million copies of that.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And so it's like kind of seeing those trends and
kind of seeing things that you might take for granted, like,
oh yeah, of course these bookstores are doing author events
multiple times a week, but like that hasn't always been
the case. Seeing the importance people put on publishing your
own work and like having a press and being able
to say what you want to say and not having
to deal with like the big publishing houses was something
(28:58):
that I saw that people saw to be important. And
now you know, people are like fighting against Amazon, which
hasn't always been the case in the bookselling world, and
like now there's bookshop that's trying to you know, help
out with the indie booksellers and go against Amazon too,
So it's a lot of moving parts and they're all
(29:19):
working together or against each other. But yeah, we touch
on all of that in pros. But yeah, it's like
a little like insider thing. If you've been in the
book industry, you're like, oh, yeah, I know about that.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I love that You're gonna get the book world that
you never knew what existed exactly, the little beef that's
happening behind the scenes. You're like, well, I didn't think
about that. You forget about the fact that there was
like whole press like they were releasing their own books
and like the level of independent authors who will trying
to just get their pamphlet out there or like the
novella's out there to make a point. So it's really
(29:55):
interesting to think on that, especially when you go through
the historical context of books stores and publishing books and
then like fighting in civil rights eras and what that
looks like, and then what that looks like for today
in the midst of like literal attack on the black
community by saying that black history should not exist because
it makes us sad. It's just that's a whole different conversation.
(30:18):
But the importance of trying to support those businesses. And
I know this seems like an obvious question, but with
everything outside of just buying from these independent bookstores and
supporting these bookstores, what can we, as those that would
like to be seen as allies, what can we do
to make sure that we are supporting these businesses if
(30:40):
it's not just by visiting them.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, I think one way that I say it would
be like the most sustainable is to make them a
part of your normal life, Like not just like, oh,
like this really popular books coming out out, buy it
from a black bookstore, which is great, But like I said,
they're doing these events every week. They have reading circles.
You know, they're bringing in authors, they're having writing salons,
(31:03):
so kind of making it a part of your life
in a way that fits naturally, so you don't feel like, oh,
I'm doing like this charitable thing, Like no, I'm getting
something out of it, the bookstores getting something out of it.
I'm really embedding into my community, I think is the
best way to do it. And even like going back
to like the book ecosystem. One thing that I thought
(31:24):
was interesting was even in the sixties, the big box
stores were stealing from the black bookstores. They would like
go in, write down what they had, and then there'd
be a display of flip black books there. So kind
of being cognizant of what these big box stores and
Amazon are doing, because you kind of might think like, oh,
the big guys aren't even paying attention to the little guys.
(31:45):
But the little guys are, you know, on the ground,
they know the community and can really curate, and then
you know, the big bohemos can just like take, take
take and scale it to a way that makes it
so that the indis can't compete.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
So being like a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Aware of how you're supporting people and their business practices.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Well, on top of that, is there something that, as
you know, you're closing this chapter of this book is
coming out, is there something that you're really hopeful for
in terms of black bookstores and or trends that you're
(32:26):
hoping will come about.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, I mean I hope black bookstores. I would like
to see them on every corner. They're a lot in
the book, but when you like travel around, you know,
they're kind of few and far between, and I think
they should be there, should be more, they should be supported.
And I would love to see someone, you know, write
(32:50):
another book about black bookstores and include the ones that
weren't included, and like continue this work of celebrating the
black bookstore as an institution and you know, highlighting what
we done in the community.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
That would be something that I think is really nice.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yes. Absolutely. And for you yourself, do you have any projects
on the horizon that you're excited about.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Well, I'm about to go on tour, so that is
my next project.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Kicking it off in Atlanta at the Georgia Center for
the Book on the eighth, So maybe I'll see you
all there.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
All right, I'm running down the eighth of April.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Eighth of April, Georgia Center for the book, seven pm. Yeah,
and I'll be in around the city. I'll be in Washington,
d C. Philadelphia, and New York. So focusing on that
and then we'll see what happens from there.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yes, so well you might want to take a break
after that, but that sounds amazing.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
I see a break in my future. Yes, with you.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Being yeah, you and your mom working like book yourself.
What did your mom say about this book?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I need to know.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Has she read it?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, she's read it. She got to see it early.
And because like when I was writing it, I would
just like go to the library, I would like write
it longhand and like a notebook, and people were just like,
what are you doing, Like you're always not like yeah,
doing something like super secret. And then she saw it.
She's like, oh, this is what you've been doing. Like
(34:26):
this is so nice. And I don't know if y'all notice,
but like in some parts of the book, you'll see
like handwriting that's actually my mom's handwriting. So yeah, I
love her handwriting. So I was like, let me get
you to write these pull quotes and the dedication, so
having a little piece of her in there too. It
has been fun. But yeah, she loves it. She's so excited.
(34:49):
She was like, you did it. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Like this is big. It's big, Katie.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Oh my god, I'm not gonna lie. Having her being
a part of that book, it just makes me so
emotional for you that it's amazing and I love that,
like the bond between you and that you have that
in your first book as like a memento for both
of you.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yes, thank you, well, thank you so much Katie for
joining us today, for coming back on. We would love
to have you anytime. Congrats again about the book. Where
can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
They can find me on Instagram. I'm at good books
atl on Instagram. And if you want to keep up
with the book, it's prostothpeople dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yes, and it comes out April eighth, correct.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
April eighth. There is a pre order incentive and you
get a cute little lapel pin that mimics the book,
but you got to get it in before April eighth.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Okay, I love I love a good incentive. Well, thank you,
thank you, thank you so much, Katie. And listeners. Go
check out the book. It is amazing. Thank you and
if you would like to contact us you can. You
can email us at Hello, at Stuff Whenever Told You
dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
(36:12):
mom Stuff podcast or Instagram and TikTok and Stuff We
Never Told You were also on YouTube. We have tea
public store, and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Christina and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You
the production of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
My Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite ship
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha A lot from Stuff
I'll Never Told You Protection by Her Radio. And as
we're entering the new year, we are still going back
to some of our favorites, our favorite episodes of twenty
(00:27):
twenty five, and one that we really loved was this
interview that we did with Katie Mitchell, friend of the show,
about her book pros to the People, and we ended
up going to talk about it and book signing and
it was just a really beautiful thing. If you haven't
(00:48):
checked it out, it is just a really beautiful moving book.
It is highly highly recommend it, and this conversation was great.
It was just a fantastic conversation. So hopefully we'll get
to have her back on one day, but in the meantime,
please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and
(01:11):
Samantha a ky Stuff I Never Told You A production
of iHeartRadio. And welcome back to the show, Katie Mitchell.
It's been a minute, but we are so glad to
have you back. Can you introduce yourself to our audience please.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, thank you for having me back. I'm Katie Mitchell
and I am the author of Prose to the People,
a celebration of black bookstores.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yes, and last time you were on here, you were
with our good friend Eves talking about on theme and
the power of black storytelling, and you mentioned that you
were working on this book about black bookstores and were like, yes,
you must come back. You complete it, and here you are,
(02:06):
and it's coming out as we record this very very soon.
First of all, congrats, Yes, it is an amazing book
and we'll be talking all about it. But can you
give us the rundown of this book?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I say, pro to the people is a exploration
of black bookstores across space and time. So I had
the opportunity to travel all around the country talking to
black bookstore owners. But I also included bookstores that no
longer exist. So the book starts in eighteen thirty, which
most people don't realize that we had black bookstores in
(02:46):
eighteen thirty, and it goes all the way to present day.
So I hope that people will look at the book
and say, oh, hey, I want to go to this
store when I'm in a particular city. But for the
ones that are closed, I wanted people to be able
to visit them in a way too.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, And this is something that's correct me if I'm wrong,
but that it was very near and dear to your
heart and kind of your interests in what you do,
right exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, like you said, we were talking about black storytelling
last time I was on and so black bookstores, of
course like cradle all all of our stories. So I'm
really excited about pros being almost out into the world.
And yeah, I'm a bookseller along with my mom, so
I thought it was a perfect fit to bring this
book to the people.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yes, and there were definitely some stories that were in
there because we were all in Atlanta, and I was like, yes,
I want to go and check this out. Can you
tell us what made you decide to write this book?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I think it was just like a deep curiosity.
I've seen how transformational black bookstores have been to myself,
and I see them as transformational as say black church
or black colleges. But I found that they were understudied institutions,
which I found ironic because they cradle all our history
(04:09):
and we haven't told the history of the black bookstore yet,
and so that led me to want to learn more
and to share it with others.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And it's as you said, it was quite the process.
It sounds like that you spent these two years traveling,
you talked to a wide variety of people. How was
that process for you and what are some of the
places that maybe stand out?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, it was a lot of people, owners, customers, family members,
you know. I had one instance in Atlanta where I
was just talking about the book and I was saying
that this bookstore in Harlem called Liberation Bookstore was in
the book and she was like, oh, yeah, like that's
my auntie. And I was like huh. And I was
(05:02):
telling her how like I couldn't get pictures for that
store because Pros is filled with pictures and a femerara,
it's very visual and designed book. And I was telling
her I was having a hard time finding pictures and
she was like, I have pictures. And I was like, oh,
can you bring them like tomorrow. She's like yeah, and
she like gave me the original pictures. I was like, no,
it's okay, I'll just take a scan of it. She's like, no,
(05:23):
I want you to have it. I want it to
be in the book. And so it was like kind
of those like very like serendipitous encounters that made me
feel like the book was just like supposed to happen,
you know, like meeting people who are just so willing
to help with the book. But yeah, traveling across the
country and talking to people like I met so many
(05:43):
elders who like really told me so much about what
was going on in the sixties and you know, the seventies, eighties, nineties,
and that was really helpful too to get their perspective.
And some of them had even written about black bookstores
from like the eighties and nineties, so that was helpful
to incorporate that in the book and to be able
(06:04):
to share their work and my work was really fun.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, I mean it was so cool. You went, you
went all over. This is amazing. Was there something that
you learned during your travels that really stuck with you.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
One of the things that I kind of knew about
the bookstore, but it kept coming up in the reporting
was the connection to incarcerated people. And a lot of
the bookstores have a component where they're making sure that
books are getting to our incarcerated siblings, and that goes
(06:39):
back from the sixties or even at the beginning, because
the first black bookstore owner in the United States was abolitionists,
so he was freeing people, like freeing the bodies and
minds at the same time, right, And so I found
that black bookstore owners really tried to take care of
those who are incarcerated and people that the state attempts
(07:02):
to disappear from our communities. So you'll find that at
Radical Hood Library in la which is owned by the
Rapper No Name, and even the Black Book Who which
was owned by Paul Coates towannahassee Coats's dad in Baltimore.
So he had a program where he was sending books
(07:23):
to incarcerated Black panthers and making sure that they knew
what was going on in the outside. So and that's
something that I found really unique to black bookstores, right,
Like you don't really hear about like grocery stores or
even museums or you know, dentist offices really caring about
what's going on with folks in prison in a in
a collective way.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So that was one thing that I learned.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Wow, Like that's an incredible level of history that I
didn't even think on, And that makes so much sense
in just in general, like the tight knit community that
these bookstores have built, Like just the fact that you
in Atlanta are connecting to people in Harlem just in
conversation in a bookstore, which is amazing. And you also
earlier talked about the fact that it is an institution,
(08:08):
that the black bookstores are an institution in itself. So
can you kind of elaborate and define black bookstores and
can you give us a brief history and the importance
that they have left and continue to do.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So I defined black bookstores in prose to the people
as a bookstore that specializes in black publications. And I
make the distinction between a black bookstore and a black
owned bookstore, which a black owned bookstore could be just
a black person who owns a book store that carries
all types of books that don't specialize in black publications.
(08:41):
And yeah, they started, to the best of our knowledge
with David Ruggles in the eighteen thirties and abolitionists who
actually helped free Frederick Douglas. Him and his first wife
were married at his bookstore, little known fact, and I
think that set the tone for black bookstores in the
United States of being sites of and we see this
(09:02):
throughout history as black bookstores being at the vanguard of
social movement. So the abolitionist movement, the civil rights movement,
the Black Panther, black Power movement, black arts movement, and
now the movement for Black Lives in Harlem, Malcolm X
had his home bookstore, and like all the pictures that
you see of him out in the street in Harlem,
he's usually in front of that bookstore, you know, gathering
(09:25):
people and trying to you know, get people to change
their minds as he's trying to change society.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, and you you talk a lot about how they
serve as much more than a book store, Like they
offer these places for social ideas, but also things like yeah,
getting books two incarcerated people and just how that really
sets them apart. And on top of that, you just
(09:52):
you have so many amazing, amazing stories in here with
just this why range of bookstores, some that specialize in
maybe like cookbooks or children's literature or a sci fi
book vending machine. How did you choose? How did you
(10:14):
choose these stores?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That was a doozy I think when I proposed the book,
I was like.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yeah, I don't have like twenty four stores. It'll be cool.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And then of course, once you go down the rabbit
hole of actually doing the research, so many more stores
make it into the book, But I really focused on
that definition of specializing in black publications, and I think
as a journalist a lot of it is access. So
who did I have access to, who was a cooperative source,
(10:45):
who showed up to the interviews, things like that on
a practical level, and then yeah, like trying to make
an even distribution of regions, but then also including like
you said, those specialty store to show the different ways
that black booksellers show up and you know, showcase their
(11:06):
interest through their inventory. I thought would be really cool.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
It's so good And when I'm reading through this, they're
like you had specialized bookstores and one it says to
the black girls, specifically to the black girls, and it
was such an amazing like ideal, Like, yes, this is
something that is set up for a welcome community where
a lot of times they may not feel like they
are welcome. Like we talk about women in stem and
(11:31):
all the time, and like how long it took in
general to feel like they could be a part of
that industry or that community in general. But with all
of that, some of these stories are so great and
based around black women. Can you share one with us
or something that listeners can look forward to specifically, I
kind of gave you one away.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I know, Yeah, the one you're referencing is called Adana.
It's in Bedstye in New York, and her story is
really cool. I liked it because it was eclectic. She
had her father's like old vinyls. I was like, oh,
could I have that? She's like, girl, no, this my
day is like stop playing. But she has like really
(12:09):
cool events there. They do like a lot of like
things with plants and just like very hands on like
sewing things and like crafty things, which I think, like
is really cool because like sometimes when you're like in adulthood,
you're like over the club, like let's just hang out
at the bookstore and have a good time and meet friends.
(12:30):
And while I was there, I could see people like
becoming friends, like sharing their birth charts and stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I was like, this is so girly. But I loved
it because it's like.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
That's what that's who it was meant for, and I
could see it happening in real time. Another one that
I thought was really fun was the sci fi book
vending machine, which is just such a great idea, especially
with like rent being so high and not every community has.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
A brick and mortar bookstore.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
But being able to be able to provide books that
are really curated and thoughtful in a small space I
think is really cool. And like they're into sci fi,
it gives a little bit of sci fi energy having
a book vending machine there too. So those are two
that I think readers will really enjoy.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I thought about Annie in that moment because I was like,
she would love this.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I do the sci fi.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Vending machines coming in using a machine to get to it. Anyway,
I was having a fun time reading through these. These
are such an amazing inventive like innovative ideas and distributing
books because it needs more and more of these things.
And with that, like as I'm looking through all of
the pictures, first of all, I'm like, I don't know why.
Immediately the smell of an old bookstore hit me the
(13:40):
minute I opened up your book, Like look through your book,
I was like, wow, I can smell it. I can
fill the arthiness when you walk into the comforting areas
with all the books surrounding you.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
It's one of my favorite things to do is to
peruse all the titles and just smell the old books.
There's something to it. And with that, I know that's
something that you've been complimented. And like this book has
already been celebrated because of these beautiful images. Can you
talk about all these pictures that you came and then
of course the ending picture like with you with all
the different people that you've met throughout your tour.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Was so cool. But anyway, can you talk about the
images in your book?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I mean when I set out to write Pros, I
wanted it to feel like a bookstore. So that's a
very high compliment you just gave me. But like when
you go into a bookstore, you don't just hear from
one person, you don't just see one thing.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So I wanted to be.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Filled with multiple voices, multiple genres, and multimedia because I
wanted people to feel like they were in a black
bookstore while reading it and to understand that comfort. So
even in the some of the bookstores that don't exist,
I'm always asking them like, what did it smell?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Like? What were y'all saying? What were y'all talking about?
Was there a fried chicken place there? Did the smell
come in?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Like I was really trying to capture what it felt
to be in those stores, and that was the goal
from the beginning. I was lucky enough to be able
to go into archives and find old pictures from the
stories that don't exist, or like I said, some people
would just offer up their pictures. There's a lot of ephemera,
so you see like the flyers and the brochures that
people were putting out for their bookstores and different events
(15:13):
that were going on at the time. But yeah, I
wanted it to be very interactive and something that you
can come back to multiple times and find something new
each time.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
I will say also, one of the things that really
permeated throughout these pictures is just the joy. There was
so much joy in having people celebrate their own books
and the releases, or sitting with people that they love
the picture specifically, I think it's like Rosa Defie, yes,
and like all the people that came through her path
and like her smile. There was so much joy in
(15:54):
these images, and you did such a fantastic job and
relaying their stories, and I know you had like interviewed
a lot of them. Was that something important that you
wanted to show in showcase.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, I wanted to capture everyone's personality and I think
oftentimes those black stories sometimes we only get shined when
something's like very terrible is going on. And I was like,
this isn't that, Like this is a celebration, and you know,
being in the community, I understand that, like, guess, bad
things do happen, but like we're not always like in turmoil.
(16:27):
We do have joy. We are celebrating, we're with our
friends and family, you know, we're listening to future and
just hanging out sometimes. And that's what I wanted to
capture with those interviews.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well done, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yes, it definitely gives the vibe of I've stepped into
a bookstore, which is really awesome because Samantha and I
we like when we travel together, we always go to
bookstores and we go to libraries. It's just we love it.
(17:04):
So this is this is such a great a great concept,
and it's something Yeah, I think a lot of people
don't know about. One of the things you talk about
in here, and people you interviewed talked about a lot,
is that there's a lot of discussion around knowledge being power,
(17:24):
the power of learning, the power of teaching that knowledge
Can you expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
In the introduction, which was written by Nikki Giovanni, she says,
pro to the people reminds us that black is beautiful,
but knowledge is power, and that is a quote from
one of the pre eminent booksellers, Lewis Michau. And I
think what we're getting at is that black books, but
(17:55):
books in general, are very liberating. And in this country,
the project of black reading, black writing, black publishing, there's
always been tension there. It was illegal for us to
read when we were enslaved here, and now you.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
See book bands.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Disproportionately affecting black books, and there's something there where they
attack the whole project of black thought. And so I
think as black people, we know the importance of books
and reading and knowledge and passing that down, and we
understand if we don't keep that tradition going, what could
happen and what those who do not want to see
us flourish would like to happen. And I think that's
(18:41):
a trend or a through line that you see from
the eighteen thirties with David Ruggles as the first black
bookstore owner to current day.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yes, well, speaking of current day, this is jumping ahead
a bit in our outline of question, but the book
book does have a lot of discussion as well about
the importance of preserving history. And as you said, right
now we're seeing such an active pushback on teaching black
(19:16):
history and schools. We're seeing so many book bands, So
can you speak to that and why it's this preserving
of history and these the black book stores that are
doing it is so vital right now?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think the story of the black
book story is unfolding in past and present tense, like
with the book showing the book stories that no longer
exist in conversation with those that do. It's the same
with our history. And if you don't know what happened
before and what the state or the powers that be
(19:56):
did to try to stop the people that came before us,
you can think like, oh wow, this is so bad,
like no one's ever gone through this, Like what are
we going to do? But the lessons are right there,
Like book bands aren't new. Really, they're kind of tame
compared to what you know, the FBI was doing before.
There's so many instances of black bookstores being.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Firebombed and flooded.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Black booksellers have been arrested, framed, and you know there's
something too. Knowing that you as a black person reading
or selling books is so threatening and you think, what
are in these books that they don't want us to read?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
And to me makes me want to read them more.
It makes me want to know more.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
But yeah, it's been happening, and it's still happening unfortunately,
but we are our elders and our ancestors have shown
us what we need to do.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, that's the like good news bad news situation of
like we've seen this before. It's been bad, but we
know we can do this because we have survived this
and we being so many marginalized people, but specifically of
the black community, and it's kind of and I've seen
it in the black community here in Atlanta and where
they're just like, yeah, it's been happening. Where have you been,
(21:07):
like to the rest of the community and be like,
we've been doing the work. Now you're just noticing it.
And it's a reminder and that both of these things
is why not only do the black community and your
book and so much more that celebrate them pushing back
And it's to that point of understanding that part of
the rebellion is celebrating and making sure that we are
(21:30):
still acknowledging what is happening and how that that you exist,
we as a system exist and will not be tied
down or quiet. And I love that that's what this
book seems to represent. It's such a perfect timing and
bringing this type of joy but understanding and power of learning,
and the fact that you're giving us an amazing list
(21:54):
because I know you talked about so many of them,
but then in the later part of the book you
give even more. You're like, oh, yeah, only about these things,
these stores, but there's so much more, and that's powerful
in itself.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I think being able to have a record of what
has been done is really cool. Even some of the
bookstores that I have full profiles of have closed since
my reporting. But it's like, this is a snapshot of
what was going on during this time. This is what
we were thinking, this is what we are doing. And
then having the list in the back, I thought was
(22:25):
important to show the ones that are going on now,
like I called it, like more to explore, and then
the ones that have closed, the list of those to
say like we were here, we did this this was
the project that all of these stores and all these
people were a part of.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
And the way the internet is going.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Out, how they're just a racing stuff left and right,
Like we need something printed and tangible so we can
have that.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yes, and this is such a great asset.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes, yeah, Well I know you've been you've been talking
about this throughout, But why do you think that it
is so important that we do keep this history? Why
is it Why are black bookstores in black libraries so important?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I mean, as I said, they hold our histories and
they deserve for their histories to be told. They've done
so much in each movement in the United States that
have involved black people, and they're still out here doing
a lot, a lot of work. Many of the booksellers
have printing presses where they're putting out information themselves. That
(23:41):
was something that I saw as a trend between like
the sixties and nineties that that was really important to people.
And I think that kind of is what pros is about,
like putting out your own story. I was very lucky
that people trusted me to tell this story, but I
do think it.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Came about because of like who I am.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I'm a black bookseller, and I'm telling the story of
black booksellers. And I think it's important to tell your
own story and tell it as authentic as possible, and
like you said, like capturing the full breath of it,
like not just the pain, but also celebrating that joy
as well.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
And just because we have to ask, I think we
talked about this a little last time you were on
about the book writing process in general.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
How was that for you?
Speaker 5 (24:29):
I know you weres a different because you actually were
able to be more interactive and traveling, but that could
also be more.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Stressful and try to do that I was the writing
process for you?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, I mean I have, of course not written anything
like this before. It was a lot of research. I
think before my writing had been kind of like more
force person, and I tried to keep myself as out
of it as possible. I like peek in a little
bit at some point with booksellers that I got like
super close with, but that was different. And then also
(24:59):
I had contributors who are in the book, who wrote
essays and poems, and so that was a new experience
of being an editor while I'm being a writer too
and kind of walking them through what I know will
be the end result, because there isn't There hasn't been
a book like this before. So telling people like, yeah,
I'm doing anthology on black bookstores, and I kind of
(25:20):
have the vision in my head, but trying to get
them to the point where their piece will fit into
that seamlessly was a different experience. But I think it
worked out so well. I'm so happy with all the contributors.
They're so smart. I have such deep relationships to these bookstores.
We have people who are biographers of certain booksellers, people
(25:40):
who were managers past managers of the bookstores, so they
really have like these deep relationships, and I think it
shines through too.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
No, you did an amazing job incorporating different styles into
one book. Like you're having an interview, then you were
having an essay, and you were having the poetry. I
was like wow, And then you're doing the excerpts and
the pictures of like just trying to do it all,
fitting all that in the one book, and kudos it
looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I was like, I'm gonna be Lauren Hill, do my
do my big one on my first one and be out.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I have a feeling this is not going to be
the only one. This is so good.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
That's what some people are saying. I don't know, I
don't know, just just.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Putting it out there.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
I'm just gonna you know, that's my prediction, but I'm
just gonna.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Well.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I also love that so much too, because it does
go back to the you know, making it feel like
you're in a bookstore. Here's all these different types of
writing you can find. Yeah, it was just great because
I was like, oh, yes, I want to go I
maybe want to go read a bunch of books, like
check out a bunch of books or something, the whole bookstore. Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Even some of the contributors like they don't agree with
each other. And I like that too, because you go
into a bookstore, there's going to be a book that says, like,
this guy is orange, and that'skind of one. There's going
to be one that says the sky is blue, and
you get to read both and decide for yourself what
color is the sky. So there's different different opinions, a
diversity of thought throughout, and I think someone will find
(27:14):
something that really speaks to them throughout the book.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
One of the like Nerdier points I latched onto because yes,
Samantha and I have gone through the book writing process.
Is that there was a discussion about kind of the
whole ecosystem of books, about like the publisher, the owner,
the libraries, the authors, and how these all these pieces
(27:50):
work together are don't and how people view how it
should work or how it should look versus how it does.
Do you have any thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, So a lot of the booksellers, I'd say, in
like the sixties, we're also doing publishing, and then I
think a little bit after that, the book signing, kind
of author celebrity of it all came together. So it's
interesting to see the different ways it has evolved. So
I'm talking to a bookseller who had a store in
(28:21):
the sixties. I was like, oh, what were your author events?
Like it's like author events, we didn't do that type
of stuff. We were selling books and publishing books. And
then I'm talking to someone in the nineties. They're like, yeah,
Terry McMillan saved our store, you know, Waiting to Excel.
We sold a million copies of that.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And so it's like kind of seeing those trends and
kind of seeing things that you might take for granted, like,
oh yeah, of course these bookstores are doing author events
multiple times a week, but like that hasn't always been
the case. Seeing the importance people put on publishing your
own work and like having a press and being able
to say what you want to say and not having
to deal with like the big publishing houses was something
(28:58):
that I saw that people saw to be important. And
now you know, people are like fighting against Amazon, which
hasn't always been the case in the bookselling world, and
like now there's bookshop that's trying to you know, help
out with the indie booksellers and go against Amazon too,
So it's a lot of moving parts and they're all
(29:19):
working together or against each other. But yeah, we touch
on all of that in pros. But yeah, it's like
a little like insider thing. If you've been in the
book industry, you're like, oh, yeah, I know about that.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I love that You're gonna get the book world that
you never knew what existed exactly, the little beef that's
happening behind the scenes. You're like, well, I didn't think
about that. You forget about the fact that there was
like whole press like they were releasing their own books
and like the level of independent authors who will trying
to just get their pamphlet out there or like the
novella's out there to make a point. So it's really
(29:55):
interesting to think on that, especially when you go through
the historical context of books stores and publishing books and
then like fighting in civil rights eras and what that
looks like, and then what that looks like for today
in the midst of like literal attack on the black
community by saying that black history should not exist because
it makes us sad. It's just that's a whole different conversation.
(30:18):
But the importance of trying to support those businesses. And
I know this seems like an obvious question, but with
everything outside of just buying from these independent bookstores and
supporting these bookstores, what can we, as those that would
like to be seen as allies, what can we do
to make sure that we are supporting these businesses if
(30:40):
it's not just by visiting them.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, I think one way that I say it would
be like the most sustainable is to make them a
part of your normal life, Like not just like, oh,
like this really popular books coming out out, buy it
from a black bookstore, which is great, But like I said,
they're doing these events every week. They have reading circles.
You know, they're bringing in authors, they're having writing salons,
(31:03):
so kind of making it a part of your life
in a way that fits naturally, so you don't feel like, oh,
I'm doing like this charitable thing, Like no, I'm getting
something out of it, the bookstores getting something out of it.
I'm really embedding into my community, I think is the
best way to do it. And even like going back
to like the book ecosystem. One thing that I thought
(31:24):
was interesting was even in the sixties, the big box
stores were stealing from the black bookstores. They would like
go in, write down what they had, and then there'd
be a display of flip black books there. So kind
of being cognizant of what these big box stores and
Amazon are doing, because you kind of might think like, oh,
the big guys aren't even paying attention to the little guys.
(31:45):
But the little guys are, you know, on the ground,
they know the community and can really curate, and then
you know, the big bohemos can just like take, take
take and scale it to a way that makes it
so that the indis can't compete.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
So being like a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Aware of how you're supporting people and their business practices.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Well, on top of that, is there something that, as
you know, you're closing this chapter of this book is
coming out, is there something that you're really hopeful for
in terms of black bookstores and or trends that you're
(32:26):
hoping will come about.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, I mean I hope black bookstores. I would like
to see them on every corner. They're a lot in
the book, but when you like travel around, you know,
they're kind of few and far between, and I think
they should be there, should be more, they should be supported.
And I would love to see someone, you know, write
(32:50):
another book about black bookstores and include the ones that
weren't included, and like continue this work of celebrating the
black bookstore as an institution and you know, highlighting what
we done in the community.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
That would be something that I think is really nice.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yes. Absolutely. And for you yourself, do you have any projects
on the horizon that you're excited about.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Well, I'm about to go on tour, so that is
my next project.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Kicking it off in Atlanta at the Georgia Center for
the Book on the eighth, So maybe I'll see you
all there.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
All right, I'm running down the eighth of April.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Eighth of April, Georgia Center for the book, seven pm. Yeah,
and I'll be in around the city. I'll be in Washington,
d C. Philadelphia, and New York. So focusing on that
and then we'll see what happens from there.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yes, so well you might want to take a break
after that, but that sounds amazing.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
I see a break in my future. Yes, with you.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Being yeah, you and your mom working like book yourself.
What did your mom say about this book?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I need to know.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Has she read it?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, she's read it. She got to see it early.
And because like when I was writing it, I would
just like go to the library, I would like write
it longhand and like a notebook, and people were just like,
what are you doing, Like you're always not like yeah,
doing something like super secret. And then she saw it.
She's like, oh, this is what you've been doing. Like
(34:26):
this is so nice. And I don't know if y'all notice,
but like in some parts of the book, you'll see
like handwriting that's actually my mom's handwriting. So yeah, I
love her handwriting. So I was like, let me get
you to write these pull quotes and the dedication, so
having a little piece of her in there too. It
has been fun. But yeah, she loves it. She's so excited.
(34:49):
She was like, you did it. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Like this is big. It's big, Katie.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Oh my god, I'm not gonna lie. Having her being
a part of that book, it just makes me so
emotional for you that it's amazing and I love that,
like the bond between you and that you have that
in your first book as like a memento for both
of you.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yes, thank you, well, thank you so much Katie for
joining us today, for coming back on. We would love
to have you anytime. Congrats again about the book. Where
can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
They can find me on Instagram. I'm at good books
atl on Instagram. And if you want to keep up
with the book, it's prostothpeople dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yes, and it comes out April eighth, correct.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
April eighth. There is a pre order incentive and you
get a cute little lapel pin that mimics the book,
but you got to get it in before April eighth.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Okay, I love I love a good incentive. Well, thank you,
thank you, thank you so much, Katie. And listeners. Go
check out the book. It is amazing. Thank you and
if you would like to contact us you can. You
can email us at Hello, at Stuff Whenever Told You
dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
(36:12):
mom Stuff podcast or Instagram and TikTok and Stuff We
Never Told You were also on YouTube. We have tea
public store, and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Christina and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You
the production of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
My Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite ship
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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