January 7, 2023 • 35 mins
Why did it take until 1998 for Cosmopolitan to use the term "bachelorette party?" Because the raucous pre-wedding shindigs haven't been around very long, since bachelor parties were for grooms and showers were for brides. Cristen and Caroline explore the social and sexual symbolism of the rise of the bachelorette party in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't become a
stuff I never told you production of iHeart Radio today.
I wanted to bring back one on bachelorette parties, yes,
(00:26):
because I was looking for word like New Year's territory.
I was looking through our catalog for something around that,
but we've rerun most of it, and I just stumbled
upon this one, and I was thinking, you know, there's
been a lot of parties lately. We've been talking a
lot about parties and celebrations, and this is when when
I read the description, I was like, oh, yeah, that
(00:47):
is interesting. I personally don't have a lot of experience
with bachelorette parties. I have seen the kind of drama
that goes into who plants it and who gets invited
and like or that goes down. We've a lot of
my group of friends have like kind of done that,
very like wishful maybe one day if we ever one
(01:08):
of us gets married, this will be what it is.
And just don't be offended if I choose this person
or this person. Honestly, I don't want to plan once
or whatever. Um. And then I did crash a bachelortte
party once at my twenty one birthday party where I
was a cool white drunk and drink responsibly and it
was like the end of the hangover, you know where
you're looking through your pictures at the end of the night.
It was me at their bachelorette party, but they had
(01:30):
a good time. I learned about it. There you go. Yeah,
I've done a lot of bachelor parties actually, because I
had a lot of friends that got married very young
and even in college. I think I planned to in
my yeah undergrad years, at least two, if not more.
Odd one included a I had gifts all over Athens, Georgia.
(01:55):
I did a whole scavenger hunt, so before we even
got together, I grabbed to all of our presence, hit
it in different businesses, like people that are trustworthy to
keep the presence. And she had to do specific things
which doubtly back I'm like, oh my god, that's so awful.
That was me. I would hate you hate me for
doing that, because I think she had to sing to
somebody to get one thing, she had to do a
(02:17):
dance with another, she had to do oppose for another,
like the weird things um that I was like, that
is really inappropriate, but it worked as college toness, this
is what happens when you're a twenty year old doing
a college throwing a bachelor party and we don't drink.
So that's what we did. On one, I made the
crossword uh word search on one. Whoever got the first
one got a prize. UM did one. It was one
(02:41):
that I had to do with a person, a friend
of theirs. Did not go well. We were not friends
and they were very rich, had their parents money, and
was upset that I would not get equal. I was like,
that was not the plan. We were not doing this.
So yeah, we definitely lost touch with that person because
of that. It was a whole ordeal. It cost a
lot of money, is what I figured out. It does
(03:01):
it does I, Like I said, I haven't really been
involved in a lot, but I've seen a lot of
the fall out, like what you're talking about of like
these dynamics being revealed, people like with who have a
lot of money being like we're gonna go do this,
and everyone else being like I can't afford to do that,
like all of the like who's the closer friend, who's
a better friend? Lowsome drama. Yeah, and in fact that
(03:24):
same person was not originally a part of the conversation,
but got offended because she felt like she was close
to them, and so we had to add her in
and then she messed it up. The dynamics. The dynamics,
I tell you, well, I would love to hear from
listeners if you've had a good bachelorette party experience. I've
seen and her tell that they exist been good ones. Okay,
(03:48):
I mean it sounds like you're very creative. You put
a lot of planning in there, did you did? Um?
But okay, the the history of the bachelorte party is fascinating,
So let's get into this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff
Mom Never Told You from House stuff Works dot com. Hello,
(04:12):
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,
and today we are talking about bachelorette parties. Last episode
we talked about engagement rings, and the previous episode we
talked about gay marriage. Yes, we do have marriage on
the mind, not because either one of us is about
to walk down the aisle, but because the way we
know of, yeah, that we know of, but because it
(04:34):
is wedding season and surprisingly, bachelorette parties have a very
interesting history and very stuff. Mom never told you ish history,
that's right, And I let me say I was totally
surprised that bachelorette party history is so brief. Yeah, I
mean it's it's kind of a new thing. The bachelorette
(04:56):
party that you think of today is pretty new. Um.
I actually I threw a bachelorette party a couple of
years ago. How it was, it was kind of depressing.
I'm going to tell you, well, I think the important
thing and I feel like etiquette guides tell you this.
(05:18):
When you plan a bachelorette party, you have to plan
it with the bride in mind, which seems obvious, But
if your bride is like a total party girl, you
should have a big party type of thing, we're a
pub crawl or whatever. But if your bride is quieter
and maybe just like the girls getaway kind of bride,
maybe you shouldn't plan a pub crawl. Did you plan
(05:39):
a pub crawl? Yeah? Yeah I did. And uh, the
the fellow women who you know, we all had dinner
first and then we started the pub crawl. They all
just started to like disappear. So by the time we
were at like the third or fourth bar, it was
pretty much just the bridesmaids and the bride. And let
me tell you, she was not having good time because
(06:00):
she was basically I don't know if she's feeling bad
that all those ladies left, but I think what she
really wanted was like, let's just drink with my girls
and you know, have some champagne and a good time.
So we got a cab, we went back to the hotel,
we drank some champagne and put on a stupid eighties
movie and that was the most fun part of the night.
That sounds fun, Yeah, yeah. I planned one last year,
(06:21):
in fact, for one of my best friends, and it
was a lot of fun. It was very cold when
it happened, and we did a pub crawl as well, um,
which uh ended with us almost being asked to leave
an establishment, not because we were so rowdy, but because
(06:44):
I bought everybody whistles and even though we knew some
of the people who were working at this bar. Uh.
And that's really the only reason we didn't get kicked out,
because you know, we wanted to make an entrance for
for the bride to be and I could just see
the bar nope, go out, turned around, yeah, and whistles indoors,
not a penis shaped whistles. They were not penis shaped whistles.
(07:08):
But we did have um oh we did. I made
cocktails for everyone beforehand, and there were penis stirs, cocktail stirs. Yeah,
we kept it classy ish. But speaking of that penis paraphernalia,
that kind of stuff is very new to the bachelorette culture,
(07:32):
and according to a prominent bachelorette scholar, yes there is one.
It says a lot about our sexual moray's and gender equity.
But first, a brief historical word on bride'smaids, because surprisingly
there's not a ton of history on bridesmaids. There's this
idea that it goes back to ancient Rome when some
(07:55):
brides Toby would have been accompanied by a ton of bridesmaids,
all dressed identically to try to trip up any evil
spirits that might try to whisk her away, or kidnappers
you might try to whisk her away. So bride's maids
were I guess sort of like bodyguards at first. Yeah,
but that whole spirit superstition carried through for quite a while,
(08:17):
all the way through the nineteenth century England, because if
you look at some Victorian era wedding photographs, you can't
even tell which one is the bride and which one
is the bride'smaid. Yeah, and that's why I don't understand
why people get upset when I just wear wedding dresses
to their weddings. You know, sorry, I look so good
and white. But you're just doing it for the bride.
(08:38):
I think you know you're protecting her. I don't actually
do that. Just to clarify, um, but bachelor parties have
ancient roots. The often sided historical precedent to the modern
day bachelor party is fifth century BC Sparta Sparta, where
soldiers would hold a dinner in the groom to be
(08:59):
his honor and toast him. But yeah, I mean it
didn't stay that classy for long. Things things did get
a little rowdier over time. In six i'd never I mean,
I don't know why I would have heard this, but
I had never heard this. Uh p T. Barnum's grandson,
Herbert Barnum Seeley through a stag party that ended up
getting rated by the cops because of rumors that a
(09:21):
belly dancer would be making a nude appearance. Yeah. And
in nineteen the term bachelor party is used for the
first time in a Scottish publication Chambers Journal of Literature,
Science and the Odds to describe a jolly old party.
So we have we we've got that whole culture already
established by and then in four pop culture wise, we
(09:46):
have the first movie devoted to this pre wedding debauchery,
appropriately called bachelor Party. Yeah, but it's Tom Hanks, so yeah,
I've never seen it, but you know it's gonna be sweet.
It is gonna end up sweet. Um. But but the
whole idea though, as to why bachelor parties have this
extensive history, is that we have long accepted that men
(10:12):
want to sow their wild oats, and they are more
at liberty to have sex before marriage. And Tom cat
around and and do as men are want to do.
That whole notion that that it's simply in men's natures
to be, you know, sex fiends, right, I mean, I
think the idea and and uh that that bachelor party
(10:35):
scholar you mentioned, Beth Montamurro, brings it up that there's
an idea that men are really giving something up, yes,
when they get married, whereas women are gaining something incredible
like a life. Finally, I have a life because I
have a man, and so that that is sort of
what all of this hinges on, because men get to
have that rowdy bachelor party to say goodbye to their
(10:58):
days of freedom, when in however, they tend to get
bridle showers. Well, yeah, I mean because for a long, long,
long time, throughout that history of you know, the extensive
history the bachelor party, the economic aspiration for a woman
was limited to being a wife and mother. So it
makes sense that the bridle shower has been the go
(11:21):
to thing for so long that it actually goes back
to sixteenth and seventeenth century Holland. And the origin story
is that there was a woman who wanted to marry
a poor guy, and so neighbors showered her with household
gifts because her father was like, no, you're not going
to marry this poor dude, and her neighbors were like, oh,
we shall help you. We will give you this ye
(11:44):
old kitchen aid Nixon I know, and unfortunately can't do
a Dutch accent, but um. In the late nineteenth century,
bridle showers became routine for wealthier women in the United States,
which were focused around preparing them for their housewife e duties.
This was also around the time that you have the
cult of domesticity and the rise of consumerism, which melded
(12:07):
together nicely. Well. Yeah, around this time also you have
things like hope chests and trousseau's which the bride's family
would fill with linens and and dishes and stuff so
she could bring that into the marriage. I actually have
a friend whose little sister her parents had been filling
(12:27):
this hope chest for her for years, but the parents
didn't do it for my friend because they were so
convinced that the little sister would get married and the
older sister would not. Why would they be filling a
hope chest to begin with? What did they put inside
of a very traditional southern family? Uh? Literally like uh,
stuff from the grandmother to get passed down, so like
(12:47):
fine china, fine silver, fine linens, all of that stuff.
My mom does have a silver tea service waiting for me,
and it has been waiting for me for years and
almost any time I see her, she asked me if
I want to want to take my silver tea service
home and I and I am putting it off. Yeah, well,
(13:10):
my mom says that I have a mink coat waiting
for me. WHOA, yeah, I said that I'm going to
attach a barehead to it and put it on the
floor like a rug. There you go, doesn't even need
a bearhead. Just go ahead and toss that thing down
and call it a day. But that that idea, though,
of women filling the hope chest is because traditionally men
were expected to buy the house in the land, whereas
women would provide the soft goods. And before traditional bridle
(13:33):
showers where you might bring gifts for less wealthy women,
they were kind of sweet traditions. I think of the
a lot of women getting together to do things like
so the new monogram on sheets and linen's maybe get
together to help make a new quilt for a bed um.
Lots of these different kinds of again very domestic oriented
(13:57):
pre wedding traditions for women, but it was one structured
of course, around men as the breadwinner and the head
of household. There was even one game that was I
guess more taking place in the first half of the
twentieth century where a hostess would hide trinkets in cakes
(14:17):
that would be given to any unmarried women who would
attend a bridle shower. And these trinkets would symbolize what
their future husband's professions might be, so kind of like
a precursor to playing mash Yeah. Yeah, fingers crossed for
the steth of scope lord. All right, Well, today of
(14:39):
modern brides still have those bridal showers, even though there's
kind of a shift in how we view them, even
though it's more like just based on tradition versus I
really really want a bridle shower where they feed me
cucumber sandwiches and tea. What are you saying you do
want that? Because I could go for a cucumber sandwich.
I mean, I could go. Haven't we established that I
(14:59):
could go for a sandwich at any time? That's true,
that's true, and it was Penn State, says yologist Beth Monima,
who we've already mentioned a couple of times, the the
bachelorette party scholar, who who was the one who said
that brides are holding these showers because of pressure's placed
on them by earlier generations. Yeah, but while pent of
(15:19):
modern bride's still have the showers, almost as many seventy
seven percent also have the bachelorette party, because you know,
the bridal shower is what you invite your mom to
you you're soon to be mother in law. Perhaps that's
the calm party, and then you have the wild bachelorette
and but it wasn't until the nineteen sixties that we
(15:42):
even have anything like a bachelorette party start to happen,
thanks Monumorro says to things like the sexual revolution and
birth control. But the history of bachelorette parties in the
UK is a little bit older. Um the term hen
party dates back to the eighteen hundreds, but that was
just referring to a gathering of ladies, any any gathering
(16:06):
of women, So we were having a hen party. Oh,
I guess you probably need more than two women to
form a henn party anyhow So in nineteen seventies six, though,
The Times used hen party for the first time in
the pre wedding sense, So a little bit sooner than
we're going to see the rise of the term bachelor
(16:28):
party in the United States. But even before the term
hen party was used as we would think of it
in reference to something like a bachelotte party, there were
similar traditions already happening, such as a female industrial workers
would get pranked on their last days of working at
the factory, for instance, before they got married, because the
expectation was they're gonna get married and then you know,
(16:50):
we work, but before Richard Gere came in to carry
them out of the factory. Never mind, just a reference
to a movie I've seen a thousand times, But all
of this kind of grew out of before the sixties,
the personal showers, which were somewhere in between the bridal
showers and the bachelorette parties. It wasn't with your extended
family and your mom and your aunt, your grandmother. It
(17:12):
was with your close friends, because those were the parties
like in the fifties where the bride would get lingerie
and other things. She didn't necessarily want to open in
front of extended family, but they were still subdued. Uh,
they were at people's houses. So it's it's kind of
that in between stage before we get into the full
big body bachelorette parties. And speaking of the full big
(17:33):
body bachelorette parties, something Old, something Bold bridle Showers and
bachelorette parties by Beth Montamorrow is our major source for
all of this, by the way, because she's really the
only person who has taken a deep scholarly dive into
this culture, and she says that in the nineteen eighties,
bachelotte parties were more about cementing friendships before that transition
(17:55):
into marriage. And there were a couple of scholars here
and there who hinted at bachelorette traditions. For instance, in
two we have Paula L. Dressel and David Peterson who
were studying male strippers, and they mentioned that some women
would see male strippers as a part of their celebrations
of upcoming marriages. Right. But it wasn't until that researcher
(18:20):
Rebecca Clark uses the term bachelorette party to describe what
motivated women's attendance at one of these particular clubs. And
she writes about how media coverage at this time in
the eighties and nineties really treated bachelorette parties like something novel,
foreign and crazy, like can you believe what women are doing?
And uh. In nine eight, Richard Roper of Eberton Roper Fame. UH,
(18:45):
he wrote an article for the Chicago Sun Times that
really signaled a shift in how the media talked about
bachelorette parties. It was the first one to really explain
it as a social social ritual, not something subdued and like, well,
let have a shower and then go out for drinks, y'all.
It was really kind of signaling the shift that it
(19:06):
was moving before that, beyond that into actual pre planned
nights of debauchery. I was surprised that it wasn't until
I believe that the term pops up in Cosmo I
would assume. I would have assumed that Cosmo would be
all over that absolutely um. And then I found it
funny that in two thousand two, not so long ago,
(19:27):
there was a Wall Street Journal cover story about how
bachelorette parties were getting super raunchy while bachelor parties were
simultaneously steering away from strip clubs, and they attributed it
to shifting gender roles in the workplace. Well, yeah, I
mean gender roles and feminism definitely came up. And around
the same time as that Wall Street Journal article, there
(19:49):
was a shift in describing them as feminist activities, like
we are taking the bull by the horns and we
are going out as women, and a lot of these
articles the shift in tone. It started describe women of
the millennium as asserting equality and demonstrating their ability to
flaunt their sexuality, and so parties are starting to move
(20:10):
more into the public places, getting more elaborate and expensive.
Just at the same time as the cost of weddings
is shooting up. So as we're getting bigger weddings, we're
also getting bigger, more ritualized pre wedding activities. Yeah, and
you could say that all of this just ties into
the commodification of American weddings that now costs on average
around twenty eight thousand dollars because now you have for
(20:35):
bachelorette parties all of this pianist paraphernalia available to buy.
For instance, you have things like destination Bachelorette parties, uh
that you can spend so much money on. Um. There's also,
for instance, being a merchandise. According to the not dot com,
do you want to hear the seven Bachelorette essentials, Well,
(20:59):
you gotta have a headpiece for the bride a dare
list a suck for a buck accessory. Sorry I had
to say that on a podcast, But essentially it's like
you wear a candy necklace and strange men can dollar
to bite a piece off. I don't like that at all,
or you can make your own. It's suggested by taping
(21:20):
candies to a shirt. That should I can? I just
put a cheeseburger on a necklace and oh that would
be my that'll that. See, it's all about creating your
own rituals kristen Berg for a book. But you also
need naughty accessories blow up doll panis paraphernalia of course,
(21:43):
And just to show how dated this article is, disposable cameras. Yeah,
you don't want to have that file lingering on your computer,
so you need to or drunk Facebook posting right. Well, now,
the last bachelor party, when she was not only a
destination bachelor atte parties heard of, it was an athen
so it involved leaving Atlanta, but there were a lot
of women coming in from like Texas and all over
(22:05):
the place. But yeah, there were penis cookies. So you
know it's a thing. I've seen many a penis cake
on the internet. Not that not that I'm going looking
for them in my let me clarify, in my research
on bachelorette parties, I saw many photos of penis shaped cakes.
(22:25):
Uh so, but what does what does all of this mean? Though? Caroline,
because Monta Murrow says that there is a deeper meaning
to these penis whistles and such. She says that bachelorette
parties and bridle showers are not just women's parties. They
are rituals of status consumption and materialism, of transition and ambivalence,
(22:47):
of friendship and reinforcement of relationships among women, and of transformation. Yeah,
and and she does write also about what it means
for the transformation of sexual attitudes and morals and Moray's
and and you know, gender norms and all of that stuff.
(23:08):
She writes that the very existence of the bachelorette party
is evidence that women have made some real inroads as
far as gender equality. Interesting she said, men had bachelor
parties because they were about to be trapped. So this
is the same thing we talked about that. Now maybe
this shows that women, Hey, if we're gonna talk about
losing things like losing freedom, maybe women are losing their
sexual freedom too. And so she says, as the sexual
(23:31):
double standard lost some of its power, and as women's
rights and freedoms became more pronounced, it has become more
socially acceptable for women to acknowledge that they too are
entitled to a last night of freedom. And yet though
about all of that penis paraphernalia um, she says that
they're actually symbolic of a contradictory role that a bride
(23:53):
is forced to play. She says, within hours of the
bachelorette party ending, she'll morph from body bachelorette to blushing,
virginal bride. And it's it's funny. The discussion, the super
serious discussion of women going to male strip clubs and
what it means and and so. Monta Muro says that
(24:15):
though not necessarily consciously, many women who end up at
mail strip clubs tend to be making fun of the
idea that men feel it necessary to have a last
night of freedom that involves porn and strip clubs. And
author Jacqueline Geller echoes that she says that the bachelorette
party is a gesture of retaliation rather than an actual
sensual adventure. It's answering almost an imagined insult, rather than
(24:40):
responding to the bachelor party's text of lewd sexuality, rather
than its subtext lamenting lost friendship. Yeah, the for instance,
the bachelorette party that I helped plan for my best
friend did not include any male strippers or mail strip
club or anything like that. A because she would have
(25:00):
been not happy about that, and because it just wasn't necessary.
You know. Now, one thing though that uh we we
really didn't look into at all. But it's something that
came up when I was listening to UM an episode
of Savage Love not too long ago, there was a
caller talking about how it was a gay guy calling
(25:22):
in complaining about bachelorette parties coming into gay bars and
gay strip clubs and tearing the place up and essentially
saying that these women need to respect these spaces, that
it's not so ko shert for you to just waltson
blow in your penis whistle and disturbing their Friday night
(25:48):
out or whatever. And I know for a fact actually
that here in Atlanta, speaking of male strip clubs, there
is a gay mail strip club that if you are
a woman, you are not going to be let in
with the group of women because they pretty much have
a policy against bachelorette parties. Because I do I agree
with the idea that you know what, your bachelorette party
(26:10):
is not your one night to go be obnoxious at
a gay bar. Well, it's not your one night to
be obnoxious anywhere. Honestly, I think you can. I think
it's possible to have a bachelorette party and not annoy
the crap out of everyone around you. But I do
think that bachelorette parties especially do take more license saying
it would be Oh, it's totally fine, it'll be fun.
(26:31):
We'll just go and go to a gay bar and
and you know, all of the men will find us fabulous.
And and just for women out there, I think that
maybe you need to take a second thought about respecting, uh,
expecting their spaces, just like we wouldn't probably want uh, well,
I don't know any bar. I wouldn't really want a
bachelorette party to come in and try to take over
(26:53):
the place. So just something to think about. Yeah, well
then you have to ask yourself. Okay, well, so ask
the hooting and holleran and all these public spaces. What
else are they doing? They're drinking, drinking. I was surprised
at the number of studies on bachelotte parties and alcohol
and the concern over it, and and the seeming surprise
(27:14):
over how much women are drinking at these parties. Well,
but I mean, I don't think it's so shocking. I mean,
I think any surprise expressed is sort of maybe not genuine,
or maybe it's I think it's weird that they're surprised
that at something like a bachelorette party, where you are
already stepping outside of normal behavior. Um, that that that
(27:38):
you would be drinking a lot. Well, speaking of norms, uh.
In Changing gender Norms for alcohol consumption, social drinking, and
lowered inhibition at bachelorette parties, the authors concluded that women's
use of alcohol in this ritual challenges existing gender norms
and conceptions of masculinity and feminity. So the drinking, in
(27:58):
a way, is simply an extent chin of doing the
things like being overtly sexual by wearing a penis necklaces
and having asking men to pay a dollar to bite
candy off of a necklace and going to a strip club,
et cetera. Yea, And according to a May study in
(28:20):
the Journal of Substance Abuse, Uh, they really do talk
about like, oh, there's so much drinking, saying that of
women in these bachelorette parties reported drinking an average of
five drinks over the course of the night. And I
understand what the definition of binge drinking is and that
is it. Yes, but I kind of feel like, uh,
(28:42):
you know, I think that maybe a one night, a
one off at a bachelorette party, is that so terrible?
I mean, unless it's leading to awful behavior that puts
you in an unsafe position. Well, and guess I guess
a scholar would just say, well, why is that ritual
so specifically attached to bachelorrette? Because you know, I I
(29:02):
think and I would be curious to hear from listeners
on this. I think that the the emerging stereotype for
bachelorette parties is more of a pub crawl kind of
thing where you go out and you are gonna binge drink.
And for guys, when I think of a bachelor party
these days, yeah, you have the hangover and the hangover
part two and the hangover part three. Now, um, but
(29:24):
I imagine guys doing things like drinking some scotch and
smoking cigars in one place. I mean maybe, I don't know,
I don't think of that. I mean I guess I
still think of like the traditional like go out and
get schwisted. Apparently I have a very aristocratic idea. I
don't know. Maybe your dude friends are more sophisticated than mine.
(29:47):
I don't know, I feel like almost there's there's a
touch of overcompensation in a way with with bachelor parties,
where it's like we go so far, so far out
because obviously there's the whole stripper aspect that's seeing you know, stereotypical.
But um, yeah, I don't know, I'm I'm I'm so
(30:08):
curious to hear from listeners on this one. Our bachelorette
parties a symbol of gender and sexual equality and a
sign of good things? Um? Or are they just a
night of frivolous excess? Yeah? I mean, I don't know.
(30:28):
It's interesting some of the things we read talked about
girls nights and girls like trips to a mountain cabin
as something really subdued and like, you know, whereas the
party with the penis necklaces and all the cocktails is
is the fancy, fun thing to do, And it's like, well, again,
like I said at the beginning, I mean you you
kind of have to take into account what the bride wants,
(30:49):
what's her personality, right, you know what, what what group
of friends are you getting together? Yeah? And what will
they want to do, and I had a great time
at my at my best friends we had We all
had a really fun time and it was just enough,
not too much. It ended with a lot of pizza,
which was great. Um So I'm definitely not against the
ritual at all, but it's it's compelling to stop and
(31:13):
think of where did all of this come from? Birth control,
baby birtha. And with that, listeners, we want to hear
from you anyone planning a bachelorette party or any brides
to be nervous about the bachelorette party grooms as well.
Do you think that at this point bachelorette parties are
getting wilder than bachelor parties? All of these thoughts we
(31:36):
want to hear. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is
where you can send your letters. You can also drop
us a line on Facebook or tweet us at mom
Stuff podcast. And we got a couple of your letters
to share when we come right back from a quick break.
And now back to the letters, christ and I have
(31:57):
one here from Jared. He's writing in about our bed
wedding episode. Uh he says, First off, allow me to
say that I greatly enjoy the show. Thank you, Jared.
Uh he says I was a chronic bed wetter, and
while the exact number of times per week escapes me now,
I do remember it as being quite frequent, not drinking much,
double voiding. None of the simple tricks helped me at all,
(32:19):
I must admit, though, my primary problem with wetting the
bed was that I was an extremely heavy sleeper. As such,
while the alarm I had would eventually wake me up,
it was normally much too late for me to do
anything but change the sheets or reposition myself to sleep
in the least wet part. Urology appointments and even bladder
X rays found nothing amiss. I was just programmed to
sleep deeply and wet the bed. I did eventually get
(32:42):
a hormone spray that I shot up my nose at night,
and this helps somewhat. But I off and on with
the bed until seventh grade. Then my body finally stopped
me from the endless embarrassment of waking up to soggy sheets.
I do not miss the crinkling of the plastic sheets
I used to protect my mattress, or the embarrassment of
the first time I had a friend over and realized
that I stripped the dead that morning to leave only
the plastic behind. Now, strangely, I'm a very light sleeper.
(33:06):
Perhaps life is having a fickle sense of humor. So
thanks Jared, And I've got an email here from Chris,
subject line a trans perspective on your video the science
of bitchy resting phase. Um. That's in reference to a
recent YouTube video over at YouTube dot com slash stuff
mom never told You, and Chris writes, as I mentioned,
(33:28):
I'm trans, and for me this means that I have
been perceived by others as both male and female at
different times in my life. Your points about women's experiences
are exactly in line with what I've experienced, but I
also wanted to add some interesting aspects of what I've
experienced when I've been perceived as a man. While women
are expected in pressure to emote constantly and generally in
a positive manner, men are conversely expected and also actively
(33:52):
pressured to not emote in a positive manner, especially through
facial expression and body posture, unless there being a any
caricature or something similar. And my experience, one consequence of
a squashed masculine positive emoting is actually muted experience of
positive emotion. I guess to the mechanism behind this is
sort of an inverse of the well known feedback between
(34:14):
emotional facial expression and experience of emotion. Well, it is
clearly unfair to use a certain class of person to
prop up others emotional security, as our patriarchal society uses women. Sometimes.
It is also unfair to rob another class of people
of the full richness of emotional experience. Basically, the patriarchy
screws us all and everyone men, women, gender, queers, etcetera
(34:36):
should be a feminist if they want the most out
of life. So thanks Chris for sharing that perspective, and
thanks everybody who's written in. Moms of a Discovery dot
Com is where you can send your letters. You can
also find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcasts, and on Tumbler as well at
stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com, and
(34:58):
like I said, we are on YouTube. You can head
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many more videos at YouTube dot com, slash stuff Mom
Never Told You, and don't forget to be a friend
and subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Is it how stuff works? Dot com
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't become a
stuff I never told you production of iHeart Radio today.
I wanted to bring back one on bachelorette parties, yes,
(00:26):
because I was looking for word like New Year's territory.
I was looking through our catalog for something around that,
but we've rerun most of it, and I just stumbled
upon this one, and I was thinking, you know, there's
been a lot of parties lately. We've been talking a
lot about parties and celebrations, and this is when when
I read the description, I was like, oh, yeah, that
(00:47):
is interesting. I personally don't have a lot of experience
with bachelorette parties. I have seen the kind of drama
that goes into who plants it and who gets invited
and like or that goes down. We've a lot of
my group of friends have like kind of done that,
very like wishful maybe one day if we ever one
(01:08):
of us gets married, this will be what it is.
And just don't be offended if I choose this person
or this person. Honestly, I don't want to plan once
or whatever. Um. And then I did crash a bachelortte
party once at my twenty one birthday party where I
was a cool white drunk and drink responsibly and it
was like the end of the hangover, you know where
you're looking through your pictures at the end of the night.
It was me at their bachelorette party, but they had
(01:30):
a good time. I learned about it. There you go. Yeah,
I've done a lot of bachelor parties actually, because I
had a lot of friends that got married very young
and even in college. I think I planned to in
my yeah undergrad years, at least two, if not more.
Odd one included a I had gifts all over Athens, Georgia.
(01:55):
I did a whole scavenger hunt, so before we even
got together, I grabbed to all of our presence, hit
it in different businesses, like people that are trustworthy to
keep the presence. And she had to do specific things
which doubtly back I'm like, oh my god, that's so awful.
That was me. I would hate you hate me for
doing that, because I think she had to sing to
somebody to get one thing, she had to do a
(02:17):
dance with another, she had to do oppose for another,
like the weird things um that I was like, that
is really inappropriate, but it worked as college toness, this
is what happens when you're a twenty year old doing
a college throwing a bachelor party and we don't drink.
So that's what we did. On one, I made the
crossword uh word search on one. Whoever got the first
one got a prize. UM did one. It was one
(02:41):
that I had to do with a person, a friend
of theirs. Did not go well. We were not friends
and they were very rich, had their parents money, and
was upset that I would not get equal. I was like,
that was not the plan. We were not doing this.
So yeah, we definitely lost touch with that person because
of that. It was a whole ordeal. It cost a
lot of money, is what I figured out. It does
(03:01):
it does I, Like I said, I haven't really been
involved in a lot, but I've seen a lot of
the fall out, like what you're talking about of like
these dynamics being revealed, people like with who have a
lot of money being like we're gonna go do this,
and everyone else being like I can't afford to do that,
like all of the like who's the closer friend, who's
a better friend? Lowsome drama. Yeah, and in fact that
(03:24):
same person was not originally a part of the conversation,
but got offended because she felt like she was close
to them, and so we had to add her in
and then she messed it up. The dynamics. The dynamics,
I tell you, well, I would love to hear from
listeners if you've had a good bachelorette party experience. I've
seen and her tell that they exist been good ones. Okay,
(03:48):
I mean it sounds like you're very creative. You put
a lot of planning in there, did you did? Um?
But okay, the the history of the bachelorte party is fascinating,
So let's get into this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff
Mom Never Told You from House stuff Works dot com. Hello,
(04:12):
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,
and today we are talking about bachelorette parties. Last episode
we talked about engagement rings, and the previous episode we
talked about gay marriage. Yes, we do have marriage on
the mind, not because either one of us is about
to walk down the aisle, but because the way we
know of, yeah, that we know of, but because it
(04:34):
is wedding season and surprisingly, bachelorette parties have a very
interesting history and very stuff. Mom never told you ish history,
that's right, And I let me say I was totally
surprised that bachelorette party history is so brief. Yeah, I
mean it's it's kind of a new thing. The bachelorette
(04:56):
party that you think of today is pretty new. Um.
I actually I threw a bachelorette party a couple of
years ago. How it was, it was kind of depressing.
I'm going to tell you, well, I think the important
thing and I feel like etiquette guides tell you this.
(05:18):
When you plan a bachelorette party, you have to plan
it with the bride in mind, which seems obvious, But
if your bride is like a total party girl, you
should have a big party type of thing, we're a
pub crawl or whatever. But if your bride is quieter
and maybe just like the girls getaway kind of bride,
maybe you shouldn't plan a pub crawl. Did you plan
(05:39):
a pub crawl? Yeah? Yeah I did. And uh, the
the fellow women who you know, we all had dinner
first and then we started the pub crawl. They all
just started to like disappear. So by the time we
were at like the third or fourth bar, it was
pretty much just the bridesmaids and the bride. And let
me tell you, she was not having good time because
(06:00):
she was basically I don't know if she's feeling bad
that all those ladies left, but I think what she
really wanted was like, let's just drink with my girls
and you know, have some champagne and a good time.
So we got a cab, we went back to the hotel,
we drank some champagne and put on a stupid eighties
movie and that was the most fun part of the night.
That sounds fun, Yeah, yeah. I planned one last year,
(06:21):
in fact, for one of my best friends, and it
was a lot of fun. It was very cold when
it happened, and we did a pub crawl as well, um,
which uh ended with us almost being asked to leave
an establishment, not because we were so rowdy, but because
(06:44):
I bought everybody whistles and even though we knew some
of the people who were working at this bar. Uh.
And that's really the only reason we didn't get kicked out,
because you know, we wanted to make an entrance for
for the bride to be and I could just see
the bar nope, go out, turned around, yeah, and whistles indoors,
not a penis shaped whistles. They were not penis shaped whistles.
(07:08):
But we did have um oh we did. I made
cocktails for everyone beforehand, and there were penis stirs, cocktail stirs. Yeah,
we kept it classy ish. But speaking of that penis paraphernalia,
that kind of stuff is very new to the bachelorette culture,
(07:32):
and according to a prominent bachelorette scholar, yes there is one.
It says a lot about our sexual moray's and gender equity.
But first, a brief historical word on bride'smaids, because surprisingly
there's not a ton of history on bridesmaids. There's this
idea that it goes back to ancient Rome when some
(07:55):
brides Toby would have been accompanied by a ton of bridesmaids,
all dressed identically to try to trip up any evil
spirits that might try to whisk her away, or kidnappers
you might try to whisk her away. So bride's maids
were I guess sort of like bodyguards at first. Yeah,
but that whole spirit superstition carried through for quite a while,
(08:17):
all the way through the nineteenth century England, because if
you look at some Victorian era wedding photographs, you can't
even tell which one is the bride and which one
is the bride'smaid. Yeah, and that's why I don't understand
why people get upset when I just wear wedding dresses
to their weddings. You know, sorry, I look so good
and white. But you're just doing it for the bride.
(08:38):
I think you know you're protecting her. I don't actually
do that. Just to clarify, um, but bachelor parties have
ancient roots. The often sided historical precedent to the modern
day bachelor party is fifth century BC Sparta Sparta, where
soldiers would hold a dinner in the groom to be
(08:59):
his honor and toast him. But yeah, I mean it
didn't stay that classy for long. Things things did get
a little rowdier over time. In six i'd never I mean,
I don't know why I would have heard this, but
I had never heard this. Uh p T. Barnum's grandson,
Herbert Barnum Seeley through a stag party that ended up
getting rated by the cops because of rumors that a
(09:21):
belly dancer would be making a nude appearance. Yeah. And
in nineteen the term bachelor party is used for the
first time in a Scottish publication Chambers Journal of Literature,
Science and the Odds to describe a jolly old party.
So we have we we've got that whole culture already
established by and then in four pop culture wise, we
(09:46):
have the first movie devoted to this pre wedding debauchery,
appropriately called bachelor Party. Yeah, but it's Tom Hanks, so yeah,
I've never seen it, but you know it's gonna be sweet.
It is gonna end up sweet. Um. But but the
whole idea though, as to why bachelor parties have this
extensive history, is that we have long accepted that men
(10:12):
want to sow their wild oats, and they are more
at liberty to have sex before marriage. And Tom cat
around and and do as men are want to do.
That whole notion that that it's simply in men's natures
to be, you know, sex fiends, right, I mean, I
think the idea and and uh that that bachelor party
(10:35):
scholar you mentioned, Beth Montamurro, brings it up that there's
an idea that men are really giving something up, yes,
when they get married, whereas women are gaining something incredible
like a life. Finally, I have a life because I
have a man, and so that that is sort of
what all of this hinges on, because men get to
have that rowdy bachelor party to say goodbye to their
(10:58):
days of freedom, when in however, they tend to get
bridle showers. Well, yeah, I mean because for a long, long,
long time, throughout that history of you know, the extensive
history the bachelor party, the economic aspiration for a woman
was limited to being a wife and mother. So it
makes sense that the bridle shower has been the go
(11:21):
to thing for so long that it actually goes back
to sixteenth and seventeenth century Holland. And the origin story
is that there was a woman who wanted to marry
a poor guy, and so neighbors showered her with household
gifts because her father was like, no, you're not going
to marry this poor dude, and her neighbors were like, oh,
we shall help you. We will give you this ye
(11:44):
old kitchen aid Nixon I know, and unfortunately can't do
a Dutch accent, but um. In the late nineteenth century,
bridle showers became routine for wealthier women in the United States,
which were focused around preparing them for their housewife e duties.
This was also around the time that you have the
cult of domesticity and the rise of consumerism, which melded
(12:07):
together nicely. Well. Yeah, around this time also you have
things like hope chests and trousseau's which the bride's family
would fill with linens and and dishes and stuff so
she could bring that into the marriage. I actually have
a friend whose little sister her parents had been filling
(12:27):
this hope chest for her for years, but the parents
didn't do it for my friend because they were so
convinced that the little sister would get married and the
older sister would not. Why would they be filling a
hope chest to begin with? What did they put inside
of a very traditional southern family? Uh? Literally like uh,
stuff from the grandmother to get passed down, so like
(12:47):
fine china, fine silver, fine linens, all of that stuff.
My mom does have a silver tea service waiting for me,
and it has been waiting for me for years and
almost any time I see her, she asked me if
I want to want to take my silver tea service
home and I and I am putting it off. Yeah, well,
(13:10):
my mom says that I have a mink coat waiting
for me. WHOA, yeah, I said that I'm going to
attach a barehead to it and put it on the
floor like a rug. There you go, doesn't even need
a bearhead. Just go ahead and toss that thing down
and call it a day. But that that idea, though,
of women filling the hope chest is because traditionally men
were expected to buy the house in the land, whereas
women would provide the soft goods. And before traditional bridle
(13:33):
showers where you might bring gifts for less wealthy women,
they were kind of sweet traditions. I think of the
a lot of women getting together to do things like
so the new monogram on sheets and linen's maybe get
together to help make a new quilt for a bed um.
Lots of these different kinds of again very domestic oriented
(13:57):
pre wedding traditions for women, but it was one structured
of course, around men as the breadwinner and the head
of household. There was even one game that was I
guess more taking place in the first half of the
twentieth century where a hostess would hide trinkets in cakes
(14:17):
that would be given to any unmarried women who would
attend a bridle shower. And these trinkets would symbolize what
their future husband's professions might be, so kind of like
a precursor to playing mash Yeah. Yeah, fingers crossed for
the steth of scope lord. All right, Well, today of
(14:39):
modern brides still have those bridal showers, even though there's
kind of a shift in how we view them, even
though it's more like just based on tradition versus I
really really want a bridle shower where they feed me
cucumber sandwiches and tea. What are you saying you do
want that? Because I could go for a cucumber sandwich.
I mean, I could go. Haven't we established that I
(14:59):
could go for a sandwich at any time? That's true,
that's true, and it was Penn State, says yologist Beth Monima,
who we've already mentioned a couple of times, the the
bachelorette party scholar, who who was the one who said
that brides are holding these showers because of pressure's placed
on them by earlier generations. Yeah, but while pent of
(15:19):
modern bride's still have the showers, almost as many seventy
seven percent also have the bachelorette party, because you know,
the bridal shower is what you invite your mom to
you you're soon to be mother in law. Perhaps that's
the calm party, and then you have the wild bachelorette
and but it wasn't until the nineteen sixties that we
(15:42):
even have anything like a bachelorette party start to happen,
thanks Monumorro says to things like the sexual revolution and
birth control. But the history of bachelorette parties in the
UK is a little bit older. Um the term hen
party dates back to the eighteen hundreds, but that was
just referring to a gathering of ladies, any any gathering
(16:06):
of women, So we were having a hen party. Oh,
I guess you probably need more than two women to
form a henn party anyhow So in nineteen seventies six, though,
The Times used hen party for the first time in
the pre wedding sense, So a little bit sooner than
we're going to see the rise of the term bachelor
(16:28):
party in the United States. But even before the term
hen party was used as we would think of it
in reference to something like a bachelotte party, there were
similar traditions already happening, such as a female industrial workers
would get pranked on their last days of working at
the factory, for instance, before they got married, because the
expectation was they're gonna get married and then you know,
(16:50):
we work, but before Richard Gere came in to carry
them out of the factory. Never mind, just a reference
to a movie I've seen a thousand times, But all
of this kind of grew out of before the sixties,
the personal showers, which were somewhere in between the bridal
showers and the bachelorette parties. It wasn't with your extended
family and your mom and your aunt, your grandmother. It
(17:12):
was with your close friends, because those were the parties
like in the fifties where the bride would get lingerie
and other things. She didn't necessarily want to open in
front of extended family, but they were still subdued. Uh,
they were at people's houses. So it's it's kind of
that in between stage before we get into the full
big body bachelorette parties. And speaking of the full big
(17:33):
body bachelorette parties, something Old, something Bold bridle Showers and
bachelorette parties by Beth Montamorrow is our major source for
all of this, by the way, because she's really the
only person who has taken a deep scholarly dive into
this culture, and she says that in the nineteen eighties,
bachelotte parties were more about cementing friendships before that transition
(17:55):
into marriage. And there were a couple of scholars here
and there who hinted at bachelorette traditions. For instance, in
two we have Paula L. Dressel and David Peterson who
were studying male strippers, and they mentioned that some women
would see male strippers as a part of their celebrations
of upcoming marriages. Right. But it wasn't until that researcher
(18:20):
Rebecca Clark uses the term bachelorette party to describe what
motivated women's attendance at one of these particular clubs. And
she writes about how media coverage at this time in
the eighties and nineties really treated bachelorette parties like something novel,
foreign and crazy, like can you believe what women are doing?
And uh. In nine eight, Richard Roper of Eberton Roper Fame. UH,
(18:45):
he wrote an article for the Chicago Sun Times that
really signaled a shift in how the media talked about
bachelorette parties. It was the first one to really explain
it as a social social ritual, not something subdued and like, well,
let have a shower and then go out for drinks, y'all.
It was really kind of signaling the shift that it
(19:06):
was moving before that, beyond that into actual pre planned
nights of debauchery. I was surprised that it wasn't until
I believe that the term pops up in Cosmo I
would assume. I would have assumed that Cosmo would be
all over that absolutely um. And then I found it
funny that in two thousand two, not so long ago,
(19:27):
there was a Wall Street Journal cover story about how
bachelorette parties were getting super raunchy while bachelor parties were
simultaneously steering away from strip clubs, and they attributed it
to shifting gender roles in the workplace. Well, yeah, I
mean gender roles and feminism definitely came up. And around
the same time as that Wall Street Journal article, there
(19:49):
was a shift in describing them as feminist activities, like
we are taking the bull by the horns and we
are going out as women, and a lot of these
articles the shift in tone. It started describe women of
the millennium as asserting equality and demonstrating their ability to
flaunt their sexuality, and so parties are starting to move
(20:10):
more into the public places, getting more elaborate and expensive.
Just at the same time as the cost of weddings
is shooting up. So as we're getting bigger weddings, we're
also getting bigger, more ritualized pre wedding activities. Yeah, and
you could say that all of this just ties into
the commodification of American weddings that now costs on average
around twenty eight thousand dollars because now you have for
(20:35):
bachelorette parties all of this pianist paraphernalia available to buy.
For instance, you have things like destination Bachelorette parties, uh
that you can spend so much money on. Um. There's also,
for instance, being a merchandise. According to the not dot com,
do you want to hear the seven Bachelorette essentials, Well,
(20:59):
you gotta have a headpiece for the bride a dare
list a suck for a buck accessory. Sorry I had
to say that on a podcast, But essentially it's like
you wear a candy necklace and strange men can dollar
to bite a piece off. I don't like that at all,
or you can make your own. It's suggested by taping
(21:20):
candies to a shirt. That should I can? I just
put a cheeseburger on a necklace and oh that would
be my that'll that. See, it's all about creating your
own rituals kristen Berg for a book. But you also
need naughty accessories blow up doll panis paraphernalia of course,
(21:43):
And just to show how dated this article is, disposable cameras. Yeah,
you don't want to have that file lingering on your computer,
so you need to or drunk Facebook posting right. Well, now,
the last bachelor party, when she was not only a
destination bachelor atte parties heard of, it was an athen
so it involved leaving Atlanta, but there were a lot
of women coming in from like Texas and all over
(22:05):
the place. But yeah, there were penis cookies. So you
know it's a thing. I've seen many a penis cake
on the internet. Not that not that I'm going looking
for them in my let me clarify, in my research
on bachelorette parties, I saw many photos of penis shaped cakes.
(22:25):
Uh so, but what does what does all of this mean? Though? Caroline,
because Monta Murrow says that there is a deeper meaning
to these penis whistles and such. She says that bachelorette
parties and bridle showers are not just women's parties. They
are rituals of status consumption and materialism, of transition and ambivalence,
(22:47):
of friendship and reinforcement of relationships among women, and of transformation. Yeah,
and and she does write also about what it means
for the transformation of sexual attitudes and morals and Moray's
and and you know, gender norms and all of that stuff.
(23:08):
She writes that the very existence of the bachelorette party
is evidence that women have made some real inroads as
far as gender equality. Interesting she said, men had bachelor
parties because they were about to be trapped. So this
is the same thing we talked about that. Now maybe
this shows that women, Hey, if we're gonna talk about
losing things like losing freedom, maybe women are losing their
sexual freedom too. And so she says, as the sexual
(23:31):
double standard lost some of its power, and as women's
rights and freedoms became more pronounced, it has become more
socially acceptable for women to acknowledge that they too are
entitled to a last night of freedom. And yet though
about all of that penis paraphernalia um, she says that
they're actually symbolic of a contradictory role that a bride
(23:53):
is forced to play. She says, within hours of the
bachelorette party ending, she'll morph from body bachelorette to blushing,
virginal bride. And it's it's funny. The discussion, the super
serious discussion of women going to male strip clubs and
what it means and and so. Monta Muro says that
(24:15):
though not necessarily consciously, many women who end up at
mail strip clubs tend to be making fun of the
idea that men feel it necessary to have a last
night of freedom that involves porn and strip clubs. And
author Jacqueline Geller echoes that she says that the bachelorette
party is a gesture of retaliation rather than an actual
sensual adventure. It's answering almost an imagined insult, rather than
(24:40):
responding to the bachelor party's text of lewd sexuality, rather
than its subtext lamenting lost friendship. Yeah, the for instance,
the bachelorette party that I helped plan for my best
friend did not include any male strippers or mail strip
club or anything like that. A because she would have
(25:00):
been not happy about that, and because it just wasn't necessary.
You know. Now, one thing though that uh we we
really didn't look into at all. But it's something that
came up when I was listening to UM an episode
of Savage Love not too long ago, there was a
caller talking about how it was a gay guy calling
(25:22):
in complaining about bachelorette parties coming into gay bars and
gay strip clubs and tearing the place up and essentially
saying that these women need to respect these spaces, that
it's not so ko shert for you to just waltson
blow in your penis whistle and disturbing their Friday night
(25:48):
out or whatever. And I know for a fact actually
that here in Atlanta, speaking of male strip clubs, there
is a gay mail strip club that if you are
a woman, you are not going to be let in
with the group of women because they pretty much have
a policy against bachelorette parties. Because I do I agree
with the idea that you know what, your bachelorette party
(26:10):
is not your one night to go be obnoxious at
a gay bar. Well, it's not your one night to
be obnoxious anywhere. Honestly, I think you can. I think
it's possible to have a bachelorette party and not annoy
the crap out of everyone around you. But I do
think that bachelorette parties especially do take more license saying
it would be Oh, it's totally fine, it'll be fun.
(26:31):
We'll just go and go to a gay bar and
and you know, all of the men will find us fabulous.
And and just for women out there, I think that
maybe you need to take a second thought about respecting, uh,
expecting their spaces, just like we wouldn't probably want uh, well,
I don't know any bar. I wouldn't really want a
bachelorette party to come in and try to take over
(26:53):
the place. So just something to think about. Yeah, well
then you have to ask yourself. Okay, well, so ask
the hooting and holleran and all these public spaces. What
else are they doing? They're drinking, drinking. I was surprised
at the number of studies on bachelotte parties and alcohol
and the concern over it, and and the seeming surprise
(27:14):
over how much women are drinking at these parties. Well,
but I mean, I don't think it's so shocking. I mean,
I think any surprise expressed is sort of maybe not genuine,
or maybe it's I think it's weird that they're surprised
that at something like a bachelorette party, where you are
already stepping outside of normal behavior. Um, that that that
(27:38):
you would be drinking a lot. Well, speaking of norms, uh.
In Changing gender Norms for alcohol consumption, social drinking, and
lowered inhibition at bachelorette parties, the authors concluded that women's
use of alcohol in this ritual challenges existing gender norms
and conceptions of masculinity and feminity. So the drinking, in
(27:58):
a way, is simply an extent chin of doing the
things like being overtly sexual by wearing a penis necklaces
and having asking men to pay a dollar to bite
candy off of a necklace and going to a strip club,
et cetera. Yea, And according to a May study in
(28:20):
the Journal of Substance Abuse, Uh, they really do talk
about like, oh, there's so much drinking, saying that of
women in these bachelorette parties reported drinking an average of
five drinks over the course of the night. And I
understand what the definition of binge drinking is and that
is it. Yes, but I kind of feel like, uh,
(28:42):
you know, I think that maybe a one night, a
one off at a bachelorette party, is that so terrible?
I mean, unless it's leading to awful behavior that puts
you in an unsafe position. Well, and guess I guess
a scholar would just say, well, why is that ritual
so specifically attached to bachelorrette? Because you know, I I
(29:02):
think and I would be curious to hear from listeners
on this. I think that the the emerging stereotype for
bachelorette parties is more of a pub crawl kind of
thing where you go out and you are gonna binge drink.
And for guys, when I think of a bachelor party
these days, yeah, you have the hangover and the hangover
part two and the hangover part three. Now, um, but
(29:24):
I imagine guys doing things like drinking some scotch and
smoking cigars in one place. I mean maybe, I don't know,
I don't think of that. I mean I guess I
still think of like the traditional like go out and
get schwisted. Apparently I have a very aristocratic idea. I
don't know. Maybe your dude friends are more sophisticated than mine.
(29:47):
I don't know, I feel like almost there's there's a
touch of overcompensation in a way with with bachelor parties,
where it's like we go so far, so far out
because obviously there's the whole stripper aspect that's seeing you know, stereotypical.
But um, yeah, I don't know, I'm I'm I'm so
(30:08):
curious to hear from listeners on this one. Our bachelorette
parties a symbol of gender and sexual equality and a
sign of good things? Um? Or are they just a
night of frivolous excess? Yeah? I mean, I don't know.
(30:28):
It's interesting some of the things we read talked about
girls nights and girls like trips to a mountain cabin
as something really subdued and like, you know, whereas the
party with the penis necklaces and all the cocktails is
is the fancy, fun thing to do, And it's like, well, again,
like I said at the beginning, I mean you you
kind of have to take into account what the bride wants,
(30:49):
what's her personality, right, you know what, what what group
of friends are you getting together? Yeah? And what will
they want to do, and I had a great time
at my at my best friends we had We all
had a really fun time and it was just enough,
not too much. It ended with a lot of pizza,
which was great. Um So I'm definitely not against the
ritual at all, but it's it's compelling to stop and
(31:13):
think of where did all of this come from? Birth control,
baby birtha. And with that, listeners, we want to hear
from you anyone planning a bachelorette party or any brides
to be nervous about the bachelorette party grooms as well.
Do you think that at this point bachelorette parties are
getting wilder than bachelor parties? All of these thoughts we
(31:36):
want to hear. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is
where you can send your letters. You can also drop
us a line on Facebook or tweet us at mom
Stuff podcast. And we got a couple of your letters
to share when we come right back from a quick break.
And now back to the letters, christ and I have
(31:57):
one here from Jared. He's writing in about our bed
wedding episode. Uh he says, First off, allow me to
say that I greatly enjoy the show. Thank you, Jared.
Uh he says I was a chronic bed wetter, and
while the exact number of times per week escapes me now,
I do remember it as being quite frequent, not drinking much,
double voiding. None of the simple tricks helped me at all,
(32:19):
I must admit, though, my primary problem with wetting the
bed was that I was an extremely heavy sleeper. As such,
while the alarm I had would eventually wake me up,
it was normally much too late for me to do
anything but change the sheets or reposition myself to sleep
in the least wet part. Urology appointments and even bladder
X rays found nothing amiss. I was just programmed to
sleep deeply and wet the bed. I did eventually get
(32:42):
a hormone spray that I shot up my nose at night,
and this helps somewhat. But I off and on with
the bed until seventh grade. Then my body finally stopped
me from the endless embarrassment of waking up to soggy sheets.
I do not miss the crinkling of the plastic sheets
I used to protect my mattress, or the embarrassment of
the first time I had a friend over and realized
that I stripped the dead that morning to leave only
the plastic behind. Now, strangely, I'm a very light sleeper.
(33:06):
Perhaps life is having a fickle sense of humor. So
thanks Jared, And I've got an email here from Chris,
subject line a trans perspective on your video the science
of bitchy resting phase. Um. That's in reference to a
recent YouTube video over at YouTube dot com slash stuff
mom never told You, and Chris writes, as I mentioned,
(33:28):
I'm trans, and for me this means that I have
been perceived by others as both male and female at
different times in my life. Your points about women's experiences
are exactly in line with what I've experienced, but I
also wanted to add some interesting aspects of what I've
experienced when I've been perceived as a man. While women
are expected in pressure to emote constantly and generally in
a positive manner, men are conversely expected and also actively
(33:52):
pressured to not emote in a positive manner, especially through
facial expression and body posture, unless there being a any
caricature or something similar. And my experience, one consequence of
a squashed masculine positive emoting is actually muted experience of
positive emotion. I guess to the mechanism behind this is
sort of an inverse of the well known feedback between
(34:14):
emotional facial expression and experience of emotion. Well, it is
clearly unfair to use a certain class of person to
prop up others emotional security, as our patriarchal society uses women. Sometimes.
It is also unfair to rob another class of people
of the full richness of emotional experience. Basically, the patriarchy
screws us all and everyone men, women, gender, queers, etcetera
(34:36):
should be a feminist if they want the most out
of life. So thanks Chris for sharing that perspective, and
thanks everybody who's written in. Moms of a Discovery dot
Com is where you can send your letters. You can
also find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcasts, and on Tumbler as well at
stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com, and
(34:58):
like I said, we are on YouTube. You can head
over and watch the science of Bitchy resting Face and
many more videos at YouTube dot com, slash stuff Mom
Never Told You, and don't forget to be a friend
and subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.
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