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August 23, 2025 • 55 mins

In this classic episode, SMNTY searches for bosom buddies and kindred spirits with the beloved 1985 series Anne of Green Gables.

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never told you a prediction by her idea. And
if you listened recently, we had a halfy hour about
PBS and kind of a cheers to PBS, and in
that we talked about Ann of green Gables and how

(00:28):
you got to watch that on PBS, and so as
part of that, I thought we'd bring back our movies
that we did about Anne of green Gables and Anne
of Avon Lee.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
So this first one, obviously perhaps Anne.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Of green Gables, And we did get a lot of
good listener mail after after this, So if you didn't,
if you didn't get right in the first time, please
write in.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
After this one. Love it, give me more?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, yes, please do. But in the meantime, please enjoy
this classic episode. Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm
welcome to Stephan never told you protection of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Okay, Andy, I have to ask you a question, and
this is gonna date me a little bit because I
was trying to remember all about's information. But did you
ever watch when PBS or in Georgia's GBS, when they
would do the little telethons to raise money for their network?
And then they would have special viewings of things. Did

(01:36):
you watch any of those? Do you know what I'm
talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I know what you're talking about. I don't believe I
ever watched that. I watched shows on PBS, right, but
I don't think I watched what you're specifically saying, which
is like a kind of special to raise money, right, right, right.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
So what they would do is you would watch a series,
so lay Miss happened to be one that I loved,
and they would do a whole viewing of an entire
of the entire I guess it was more of us singing.
It wasn't the actual play. They would just come up
on stage and sing and it was beautiful, and then
they would interrupt it every thirty minutes with a thirty
minute segment of them trying to raise money, and then

(02:16):
tell you can buy this VHS set for a pledge.
So if you were to pledge five hundred dollars or
one hundred dollars a month, they would send you this
with a tote and all these things. I never got this.
I was very sad, but I have distinct memories in
watching these and being very excited, except not excited about
the telethon part, but being very excited that they would

(02:39):
show something that I loved. And I will tell you
one of the things that I loved is what we're
going to be talking about today. And I'm just so excited.
Which is the CBC or the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation version
of and of Green Gables. And this is how I
first watched it was on PBS telethon and I'm like,

(03:02):
oh my god, this is exciting. And it happens once
a year, and it happened in my teenage years early
years to the US, And you know, growing up in
a very small town, we only had three channels available
literally Channel two, Channel five, and channel eight, so we
had ABC, CBS, and PBS didn't have NBC that was
too fancy for us, just so you know, that's what

(03:26):
we had. And yes, my favorite time of the year
would be the telethon which they would put on these shows,
which is like a two day stretch of the nineteen
eighty five classic because they would continue on and hopefully
we will also continue on with the sequels that Kevin Sullivan,
the writer director of this series, would do, which apparently

(03:49):
went way off book after the first one from what
I understand, which I would try to record on VHS,
trying to get it perfectly timed that any of the
actual telethons, trying to make it one, and I failed
every time. I failed every time, y'all one time, and
I would eat a bowl of whatever claim chowder that

(04:12):
I could find, because I had never had clam chowder before.
So I would get the progresso or Campbell's version of
it in like heat induced weather and pretend like I
was actually up north during the winter watching this movie
because I so desperately wanted to be on Prince Edward Island.
I have these distinct memories. Yeah again a reminder, Georgia

(04:33):
rarely gets below forty and it's only for a very
short season of time. Yeah. Yeah, So I have very
fond memories in growing up and loving this movie, and
I will watch it to this day. I have the DVDs.
I've lost those DVDs. I need a fue. Oh, I know,
I know, I've got a few. Think I was careless

(04:55):
and like, scratch them up. They're expensive though they're expensive.
So that's a fun birthday treat to me because this
is now my birthday month. That's what I'm saying, I've
decided that classics will be a theme for us throughout
this month. Annie, are you ready for it?

Speaker 1 (05:13):
I'm excited. I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Of course, this means there may be a two parter
for this, because to me, Anna green Gables and Anna
Avonlea were hand in hand, which apparently was renamed Anna
green Gables the sequel. Oh it noticed till later, Like
I was like, okay, but yes, I'm very excited to
go down this memory lane with you. I hope you're excited.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
I am excited.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
So the only experience I have with Anna green Gables
is our local theater. I also grew up in a
small town, but we had six channels, so that's all right.
We just have a NBC. But we had a small theater.
I could only show one movie at once. And I'm
not kidding. At least three times I was there it

(06:02):
like caught on Fire the projector did so that kind
of theater. But one time it did a play of
Anne of green Gables, and it was when I was
like super into. I thought I could be like a star,
so I would audition for it. I auditioned for Diana
because they wanted somebody with red hair for Anne. And
my friend Katie who's been on the show and specifically

(06:24):
came on the episode we did about red hair for women.
She at that point was already.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
It's funny.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
It was funny for me watching this for the first
time last night, I was like, that sounds like Katie,
but she doesn't like her red hair like being report,
so she wouldn't she wouldn't audition. However, a lot of
my friends that I grew up with loved Andrew green
Gables and Marissa, who's also been on this show, has
done the like Prince Edward.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Island Anna green Gable too.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I'm hoping she'll share pictures with us because they're super cute.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Can put on like the hat and it has the
breeds in it.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
You know, I'm not sure if I can do all that,
being very very Asian, but I would want to go
see the tours.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Oh, she had a It sounds like a delightful time
in the pictures. Are She's so happy that it makes
me very very happy?

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Hell yeah, so I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah right, So I actually I have a friend who
lives on Prince Edward Island right now, and we've talked
about I'm like, I may have to come see you immediately. Oh,
but in this love and so people are very aware.
Because I know I'm a bit of a snob about this.
I have never read the books. I've never actually read
the books, and so therefore I cannot tell you what

(07:37):
is right and wrong with these When it comes to
the film versions, and y'all, there's been a lot of
silent film. It was actually an animated series in Japan
before it was a movie here. There have been many renditions,
including the Newest One, Newest and I say a new word,
I guess one and with an E on Netflix. I
have yet to try it because I'm a little bit
of a purist in that I saw this one first

(07:59):
and I cannot change my perspective on this, and I'm
worried that it's going to change it. And I do
understand that the creator was from Breaking Bad, and so
she explores the dark side of and with an E
makes sense because there's nothing about this orphan girl who
should be happy like Hunky Dory happy in real life,
like I said that about Harry Potter too, So I

(08:23):
will put that cabaret in. And yes, we are talking
exclusively about the movie, So please don't be mad, Please
don't be mad. And I also understand there is a
bit of a controversy with Kevin Sullivan's take. There was
a back and forth about ownership, copyright writes the book
royalties between some of the family and the people who

(08:43):
own the rights to versus Kevin Sullivan. It was a
huge thing. It went to Courton, Japan, it went to Courton, Canada,
like there's there's a whole thing. And I'm not We're
not going to get into that too much at all,
but I'm very aware and I want you all to
know I'm aware, and it does make me feel kind
of slimy and that Kevin sol of them was not
completely respectful of the family's wishes, but because there was

(09:05):
a lot of money to be had obviously. So we
are talking about the Sullivan Entertainment version of the nineteen

(09:26):
eighty five mini series and of Green Gables.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Are you ready any Yes, I am ready.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And also I'm very excited for listeners to write in
about like is it this version?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
What the book?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I want to know all your favorites are your opinions.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
And she and by the way, Lucy Maud Montgomery, who
wrote this series in nineteen oh eight, started with Anna
green Gables and then started many follow ups to that
and was hugely celebrated and loved. So I will never
dispute anyone on that love. I get it. I get it.
Feel that same way about Little Women sometimes, and a

(10:06):
lot about Jane Austen films, which we will talk about later.
But yes. So. It was originally released as a two
part series in December of nineteen eighty five in Canada,
later released on PBS in February nineteen eighty six, which
is when I'm to the US, by the way, well
July of eighty six, I guess, and in the UK

(10:27):
in nineteen eighty seven, so it had a pretty big
hit there. The series was awarded many Jemini Awards. Many
of the stars in the movie got awards as well
as the writers and the directors and the costumes as
well as they won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Children's Series,
Peabody Award, and many many more. And I just discovered
that is only available on Sullivan Entertainment's own streaming service

(10:51):
called Gazebo TV. I did not know this untill last night,
because it used to be able to be rentable on
Amazon no longer. I will tell you this. It is
a free streaming service. However, to watch Anna green Gables,
the classics like this one that we're talking about specifically,
you do have to buy or rent it. That's the

(11:13):
whole thing. Like I said, they have anniversary series and
it's very expensive from what I gather, but yes, and
if you're interested in what kind of shows they stream,
it is very early nineteen hundred's wholesome series. From what
I can gather, it seems like it may be the
hallmark of Canada type if you like Way Back whin

(11:34):
Tills I see.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Okay, okay, all right, just.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
So you know, all right, are you ready for the plot?
And I try to I'm gonna try to condense this,
but I wrote, I'm like, I'm so excited. I'm so
excited about every part it is.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
So we're introduced to Anne Shirley, who was played by
Megan Follows, who I've seen her in other things, and
it would just strike me as odd because I'm like,
that's Anne. Why is she? Well, that's Anne. We're what's
going on? But we are introduced to Anne Shirley, an
imaginative and talkative orphan who is currently living at the
home of the Hammonds, who took her in to help

(12:10):
with the house and children, and is treated pretty cruelly
by both mister and missus Hammond, but mister Hammond dies
of a heart attack and is soon seen as an
inconvenience and is dropped back off at an orphanage. After
six months of being at this said orphanage, we get
introduced to Anne's friend or mirror friend, Katie spelled with

(12:30):
a K, and she's given the opportunity to go and
live with the Cuthberts on Prince Edward Island, which has
a lot of tourist value at this point. I think
it's just gorgeous anyway, but yeah, they did a lot
for tourism on that one. The Cuthberts are played by
Colleen Dewhurst who plays Marilla, and Richard Farnsworth who plays Matthew.

(12:51):
The best Matthew that ever existed, I just want that
to be said. Soon after arriving, she bonds very quickly
with Matthew because he is quiet and to be entertained
and loves the fact that she just talks and talks
and talks, and it is so imaginative and out there,
and by the way, he lives with his sister on
Green Gables, which is a beautiful piece of farmland. She

(13:13):
learns that they had intended on adopting a boy to
help around the farm and not a girl, very very
very sad and says, this is all tragical, which I love,
and she's told that they would have to send her back.
The next day, she and Marilla head back to the
orphanage to correct the mistake. When Marilla, after being met
with her seemingly enemy and has a change of heart

(13:37):
and brings her back on a quote trial basis, and
the heartwarming adventures truly begin, and soon learns to pray,
which is a whole scene in itself, so I just
to apologize with flair and makes friends upon friends upon friends.
She meets her bosom buddy, a kindred spirit a Diana Barry,

(13:57):
who is a neighbor and a schoolmate with raven hair,
and then she also meets her nemesis and trewe love
Gilbert whom we all love, who is played by Jonathan Crombie,
the best Gilbert there is, I'm so sorry. She excels
at her studies and is often in stiff competition with Gilbert.
He first place in all the school courses, but of
course his gravest sin against her is calling her carrots

(14:20):
on her first day of school and being very sensitive
to her red hair. She breaks a slate over his
head and apologetically and never talks home again, well for
a while anyway. And of course, since she is a
poor orphan who has never been a part of a
real home life, makes many mistakes along the way, including
getting her best friend drunk off of current wine, which

(14:42):
was a huge debate during the nineteen hundreds, as you know,
alcohol not really kind of frown upon, you know what
I'm saying, And because she also confused it for raspberry
cordial because she's never had either, and she's banned from
ever seeing diet again because she has become known as
the troublemaker manipulator because she's obviously an orphan who manipulates

(15:02):
the lies. Throughout the series, we witness Anne thriving with
her new family and her town, her studies, and her
hard work, eventually later to being the top of her class,
being placed in a special class to study for her
interest exams to Queen's Academy in Charlottetown, led by her
very supportive and other kindred spirit teacher, Miss Muriel Stacey,

(15:24):
who she almost fed tainted dessert after forgetting to cover
the sauce, resulting in mouse drowning in it. Also a
great scene. She was able to save the day when
she helps save Diana's sister Minnie May, who was sick
with the croup and was forgiven and even invited to
the Christmas ball yay. Marilla relented after Matthew was able

(15:44):
to talk her into it, allowing her to go to
the ball, but first he bought her her very own
gown with puffed sleeves, very beautiful scene. She soon meets
Diana Spinster aunt very rinch Aunt Josephine Barry and of
course wins her over with her personnel and charm and
is invited along with Diana to her home for the
exam in Charlottetown. There, she and Diana get to experience

(16:06):
the wonders of the city life. Yes arriving back to Avonlea,
summer continues and so do Anne and Diana's adventures. The
young ladies decide to take on one of the scenes
of Alfred Tennyson's the Lady of Shalott, which she mentions
throughout the movie, which Anne plays the lily maid while
floating in a dingy that springs a leak and gets

(16:27):
stuck in the middle of the waters, but along comes
Gilbert to save the day and the forgiveness he has
been seeking for so long from the ill fated Carrot's Day,
and she also finds out that she and Gilbert have
tie for first place on the exams, and she becomes
a toast of the town. She soon performs at the
Hospital of Fundraiser, getting a standing ovation and had an

(16:47):
awkward misunderstanding with Gilbert, but then they soon leave for
college and there was again. She excels at her studies,
getting the highest award, the Avery Scholarship, beating Gilbert who
is second a place with gold, but soon returns home
and after she does the tragic death. I can never
watch it. I cry, Matthew. Anne decides to stay home

(17:11):
with Marilla and start teaching in a nearby town. Gilbert,
who was already accepted the teaching position in Avonlea, switches
to the two positions so Anne can be in Avonlea
while he travels and in with a lovely scene on
the bridge with Anne and Gilbert with things yet to come.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yes, scene I have never seen. I've never seen the
next one, so I was like, it's over.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
No, it just stops there. Though.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yes, I adore this movie and everything about it brings
me so much comfort. You would think, wolnot because I'm
watching it now and I'm like all of the implications
about how evil and bad orphans are and essentially like
they're just there for servitude. It could have been triggering,
but I think I love the fact that she had
such a winning personality and I wanted to be her,

(18:03):
that she just excelled at everything and disproved everything that
people were saying about her, and I wanted to be her.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Also.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
I wanted to live in Prince Edward Island, And as
much as I love her relationship with Gilbert, I loved
her relationship with her family and her best friend. Like
that to me said everything I wanted growing up, the
best friend that I never had, and when I found one,
I latched onto him very quickly, as you know, But
I felt like it just was so heartwarming and it

(18:32):
felt so good to watch that. I have those memories
that spring in my head and I adore it, And
I want to know, what did you think about the movie?

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I really enjoyed it. I wasn't sure what to expect.
I'll admit when I saw the three hour runtime, I
was like, oh boy, okay.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
I didn't think about that at all.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
No, No, it was all good.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
It was beautiful, and I would say had off to
all the actors in it, because they really sold it
and it was very charming and won me over very quickly,
and it was it was kind of like a nice,
wholesome like there were definitely mishaps, a lot of mishapps, yes,
but the way it did it, it wasn't like I

(19:18):
feel like usually in a movie structure, there's like the
one terrible thing that happens and then what happened, But
you kind of were like there was something about the
timing and pacing of it.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
I guess that I really enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
It was like, oh, here's this thing, here's this beat,
here's this beat, but with a general understanding like there's
going to be sad stuff, but it's.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Kind of gonna work out. There's definitely some sad things.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
But uh, and yeah, it was just beautiful and I
did love I loved all of the and dramaticness. I
thought was very funny, her quoting yes and her very
like tragical as you said, like things like that. No,
I really really enjoyed it, and I was sad when
it was done. I was like, oh, no, I can

(20:00):
tell there's so much more to go, and.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
There is, Annie there is, but you know, there's a
lot to this. When I was looking up all of
the articles, of course, there was a lot of comparison
to the new series to the old and what was happening.
Is it better? Is it not better? I do understand.
I think, like I said, and with an E was
on the darker side exploring apparently she does have PTSD,

(20:25):
and that scene I know the book, I think was
a little more dark than the actual nineteen eighty five
series from what I gathered trigger warning y'all for child
abuse that he dies, mister Hammond at the beginning dies
while he was whipping her. So in the movie he
dies while he's yelling at his employees, so it wasn't

(20:47):
really noted to that level. So yeah, I mean that's
pretty horrendous in itself. And again, like I said about
many of these movies of like the savior child or
the good child or whatever. They may be okay, but
they would have had to have a lot of therapy
because there's a lot of trauma there that we would
need to look at. But they kind of glazes over that,

(21:10):
which I think maybe part of the appeal for me
as well. I'm like, man, I wish I would have
had none of the baggage, just this happiness and hope.
But yes, there's a lot of articles out there about
why it touched so many people. There's even an article
and we're going to talk about a little more about
the feminism of and the Green Gables more of the novel,
but we kind of can extrapolate and put that into
the film because it had that same intention, because even

(21:34):
though the romance is there, it's really not a big plot.
It's a side plot. And I love that me too.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
It was certainly like, as you said, the relationship with
the family and her friend Diana were the hearts of
it to me, and I really enjoyed that as well.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
That it was sort of like.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Maybe this romance thing will happen, maybe it won't, but
this is the important I want my bosom friend and
I want to find my right.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I love it. Yeah, So let's go ahead and talk
about the themes of this movie. And again, it's such
a long movie. There's so many things that we can
pull apart and pull out, but we do want to
focus on specific things that meant a lot to us.
And I think it's important to talk about which women
as their own heroines, which I really really loved this bit,
and I'm going to read from that study I was

(22:23):
telling you about, which talks about the feminism of Anna
green Gables, because I think it's really interesting that they
talked about how this was not anonine Gables is not
considered feminists by most part. No one really say that.
They just think that it's a classic and you move on.
But when you look at again the look at the
heroines and the independence and here that we see, and
we're talking a little more about that that these women

(22:45):
kind of work for themselves. And I think about that
with missus Stacey. I think about that, which we'll get
to revisit her next season, the next one along. I
think about her in that way. Even Rachel Lynn, who
is the but she is kind of the heroine of
her own household. That makes sense, the leader in that

(23:06):
Marilla making her own pathways and having a successful life
even if it doesn't seem fulfilled, as well as miss
missus Barry the Spinster, who was fine and happy on
her own.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, there are plenty of examples of women who were
unmarried not really portrayed a romantic light. It's like miss
Barry the Spinster who and kind of made friends with says,
you know, sometimes I wish things had been different because
she'd been so focused on money or whatever. So it's

(23:41):
not like it was painted as this is so much better.
But it was interesting to see so many portrayals right
of women without men, or even if they had a
man wasn't really the focus or in the picture, like and.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
It wasn't just like it seemed kind of but you
could have gone there. They don't. But yeah, one of
the things that we talked about about, like, yeah, I
would see like her being her own hero, kind of
making her own pathway, being a forward feminist thinking. And
in this text they talk about they actually quote say

(24:17):
for a long time, it's so called girl stories like
this one. We're not recognized as literary texts and ignored
by most literary scholars, whereas children's literature in general was
a subject to scholarly studies. Girl stories were often overlooked
by critics, most of whom were male. And I think
that's really true because as much as we go back

(24:38):
and forth about the old tales, we talked about how
it gets some romanticized and then pushed to the side
as romance, so therefore is not literary. Of course, we
still call it classics. Today it would come a long way,
but at that point in time, it really wasn't. And
here's a children's story that talks about up and coming
child who focuses on herself for the first book, from

(24:58):
what I understand, but in this first movie not being
really seen as serious or a model for other girls,
which I find interesting because that's not true if we
look at the character of Anna green Gables. It spawned
a big fan hood, like we may not be to
the level that we see with Harry Potter or Twilight

(25:20):
today because we don't swim over characters and or maybe
that's not a magical world, but there was a diehard fandom.
I was a part of it, of Anna green Gables
and a love that we have for this and seeing
these women or seeing these characters as heroes.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
One of the things that stood out to me, and
we've talked about this recently, is I kept waiting for
the other shoe to drop with like Anne was so
good at her study, she was so smart, so I
kept waiting for Diana to be like, I can't be
your friend anymore other than the cordial incident, but like
her personally. And you did have that one character what

(26:12):
was her name, Joseph. There was the one character that
was yes, but otherwise like, yeah, you got the teacher
who's a woman who's supportive of Anne and like, no,
you're so smart. We can make this happen. You've got
miss Barry and you've got Diana, and I liked that.
They were all like no, you're so we want to
see how far you can go, like we're going to

(26:33):
support you. And there was also the scene with Diana
where she was like, no, I like Gilbert too, and
I was like, oh, here it comes, but it was
much more like no, it's okay, like if you're interested.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
I didn't know if you were interested. I liked it.
I appreciated it.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, there's a love there in a bond. But that's
the other part is like being honest and communicating together.
That's me.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Also, she saved someone's life. She saved many because she
been through so many childs and knew how to take
care of children. She was able to save this child's life.
And it's a gorgeous, gorgeous look at what she can
do as someone who has always had a find for
herself also had an issue. And I do want to
come back and saying, how did that kid cry like that? Like,

(27:16):
I don't think that because a good an actor like that.
Did they do something to make her cry like that?
I've always thought that. I know in the back of
my head, I'm like, I hope that kid's okay. But
then we move on to of course the obvious at
the very beginning is the orphaned person, because that's a
big thing when it comes to stories like this, feel
good stories, whatever whatnot. This one has a little more

(27:40):
heavy leaning and understanding that they were seen as property
and or brought into to be a servant in the
home or a caretaker in the home to lighten the load,
not necessarily to care for. And I don't think that
attitude was an uncommon in the early nineteen hundred is
eighteen hundreds, that was a thing. Unfortunately, children were used

(28:02):
and abused and all that. Of course we don't get
into that too much, just just the implication of that.
So of course we are so excited to see her
grow out of that, but we do see that conversation happening,
especially during the Industrial Revolution when we talk about all
of that as well. But then for Anne specifically, as
you mentioned the redhead stigma of the early nineteen one.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, it was everywhere.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
And again because I have my friend Katie and because
she experienced this so much, every time, I was like,
oh there, oh yeah, there it is, Oh there it is,
and it kind of it did make me sad because
it was clear.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
She did internalize it.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it was just desperate for She tried to dye
her hair, yes, and it went horribly awright.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
It was so cute when she cut it. I was like, oh.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, yeah, so she died it.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
She tried to diet black, right, and then it went green.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yep, went green.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
So she had to cut it and it was super
cute and she cut it.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
But I know, like.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
When you're I don't want to diminish anything at all,
because like when you're a kid, those kinds of things
are huge, Right, that's so big and so can hurt
so bad and so embarrassing, and even as an adult.
But I just know, I think as adults we tend
to dismiss that kind of stuff, but it is huge,
it is we shouldn't dismiss it. But yeah, for her

(29:28):
to have that kind of constant and that's what my
friend had said, like it's the first thing people say.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
When they meet her all the time. It's like about
your hair.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
And clearly for Anne it had been stigmatized. It was
something she didn't like about herself. It felt like it
made her ugly. And so when it was like constantly
brought up, you just got to see this very angry
side of Anne, but also the insecure side, the insecurity

(29:59):
of having it instantly brought up.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
I mean, she has a temper, she does not hold back.
She already know this. She defends herself and I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, oh yeah, I mean she and she's got away
with words.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
So as you said, like we get to see it's
kind of fun to get her to like really give
like Rachel Lynne for instance, like really counter downsize. Yes,
but then to see her kind of do her like
apology that she I won't say it's like fake, but
she's doing it as an act because she loves like
the dramatics of language and putting words together. Like to

(30:33):
see that kind of dichotomy and Rachel lynn being totally
like buying it is very fun.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
It is uh. And then of course with the orphan
girl is the idea that she's wild and untameable, which
kind of is implied by Rachel Lynne at the very
beginning talking about she's just wild and oh my gosh,
it's so rude and I'm so uncivilized. We see that,
and that's kind of that thing is kind of what
we see. That's always a part of her which wants

(31:01):
to run free independence, That has always been her. As
much as she wants to belong, she also wants to
be free. Is that conversation, which we find out more
into the sequel. I'm just saying another part of this,
And I don't know. I think you and I have
talked about how growing up we would make we make
believe specific eras for me, I loved nineteen hundreds. Early

(31:24):
in nineteen hundreds, for me, I would imagine what it
would be like to write by candlelight, which sounds horrible
because I can't see today, so I don't think that's great.
But as a kid like I had those long dresses
and sitting by the fire and not having electricity, what
that would be like? Which was this? So between this
and Little Women, I was really caught up. But I
love that this is a part of Anne's world where

(31:47):
she has so much imagination, which she talks about as
a strength and it is, and where everybody else tried
to take that away from her, telling her to get
her heads out of the clouds. It's unrealistic expectations, but
she lives in it and loves it, thrives in it,
and it's been something that has been able to carry
her on through all the bad parts, even when people
are mean. And she honestly talks about the fact that

(32:09):
when Rachel Lynn doesn't have any imagination, and she doesn't
can't understand why these bad things may happen or these
things that happened, but she does, and so she's there,
she's able to have compassion on people, you know, That's
what she kind of implies. We see her talking about
how rich people don't have much imaginations because they don't
have to dream it up because they have it in

(32:29):
the illusion, Like I love that theme so much and
growing up in my own trauma and I know you
know this, that's what we did. We had to have
imagination to survive the next day.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, And I really loved that too, because I love
how I feel like the imagination we see depicted in
children A lot in movies, we do see kind of
the like trauma, I'm imagining my way out, definitely, But
a lot of times I liked how Anne had this
kind of like you don't even have the imagination to

(33:02):
imagine the bad part of this, because she was kind
of looking at both she was like, I can imagine
much better, I can imagine much worse, and you can't
imagine either.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
You have no real yeah, which I really appreciated.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Right. And she created a friend, Kady Katherine with a
K because she needed someone, and she talks about wanting
to be in that world, wanting to be in the
mirror world, and how beautiful that would be. And this
is what she did to survive, especially six months of
being in an orphanage, which we never hear talk about again.

(33:35):
After beating Diana, which is gorgeous and beautiful I love it.
And of course another big part of this is family finding,
family finding belonging, with both Marilla and Matthew having two
sides of the same coin, one really tough but still loving,
one really kind hearted but quiet. Like just having that
in our life. It is such a gorgeous picture. I

(33:57):
just really like the fact that it's an unconvinced old
family who found balance.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
I liked that too because of At first, and I
blame heteronormative material, I assumed that they were together, like
Matthew and Marilla, and then I found out, Oh, Marilla's
got this kind of tragic like love story in her
past and brother and sister. I like how Matthew was
pretty immediately like, no, I think Anne would be good

(34:26):
for us.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
It seems to kind of know Marilla will arrive at
the same the same understanding.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
But it was cool, it was it was Yeah, it
was just a really good like foil for each other
because Matthew was so quiet, but he was much more
like openly entertained, whereas Marilla was more outspoken but kind
of like hiding her affection and her entertainment.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
And Anne, of course it is just like open everything.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, but it was connect.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
It was a lovely thing to see and it was
very I liked seeing all of them interact with each
other and kind of grow with each other, and I
love the like eventual fondness, like with Matthew was always there,
but eventually it kind of became more, Oh, I'll get
her this dress even though I'm so embarrassed and I

(35:21):
don't know what to do, Yeah, because Anne really wants it.
And with Marilla it became much more like from how
do you get in all these troubles child?

Speaker 1 (35:30):
To how do you get like a fond like how
do you do?

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Would stay adore fun facts? Now this is I cannot
remember where I found this or if I watched this
doing one of the behind the scene things, but apparently
the act was colleendu hers with someone vulgar and would
kind of like make jokes and like and laugh and
like all these things behind the scene and it because
really loved her, which I believe. Megan Follows was sixteen,

(35:57):
so she was pretty young. She was playing eleven twelve
years old, so older, but not the significant that we've seen.
By the next sequel, she plays an eighteen nineen year old,
so she kind of fits into that. She even looks
older than though. I don't even know how, but she
fits that age range at that point in time. But apparently,
like that's what I had read. No, don't quote me

(36:17):
on that, but I'm pretty sure i'd read that she
was kind of one of those people because she was
a famous stage actress, and she was a famous actress
at that point already Colleen Dewhurst. And then for Farnsworth
who played Matthew, he was actually a stuntman and this
was one of his first acting gigs and eventually he
did a win Awards, but still best Matthew, Matthew. I'm

(36:40):
still hold to that. Oh so good. And then yes,
we couldn't not talk about the friendships, the friendship she
had been aching for because she had been so alone
and she just knew it existed and it was out
there and it was She builds so many good bonds.
But Diana, her bosom, kindred spirit. I love the relationship

(37:03):
so so much, and poor Diane, I felt like she
was like, what is happening? And who is this girl?

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I love it too because it reminded me of when
I was nine years old.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I lived in a small town.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Our houses at that time were pretty spread apart in
the area I lived in. My friend Katie, the Redhead
that I've been talking about, she when I was nine,
she moved into a house that was near me, and
I swear like I was like, what is her phone number?
I need to call her. We're going to hang out,
We're going to be best friends. Like so at this
scene where Anne was like, we're going to be best

(37:39):
friends and Diana's kind of like what.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I feel like I did that.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
I lived that, and we're still best friends.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
And I love it.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
And I think, like we get so many depictions of
poor friendships between women in media, but it's clear, like
this longing is real for that like your kindred spirit,
your tole me, who is a friend, of friendships between women.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
And I loved it.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Like I said, I kept waiting for the other shoe
to drop, and it really didn't. They were solid friendship,
they were bosom friends.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
They're amazing. My favorite scene is the walking in the
forest actually falls off the roof scene. Yeah, the way
that she scares herself, it is so fantastic. I feel like,
I don't know about you. I'm sure you have many stories,
but I had a friend of mine. We would do
silly things like that that would cause us to get
into trouble or make some make belief thing and I

(38:39):
loved it and I missed those days a little bit,
not enough to actually call them, but you know stuff
like that that is like wow, imagination, the things that
bond you do.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Oh yeah, I mean me and my friend Katie.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
We would go in the woods and we would literally
like take turns telling each other about the sand creature
under the leaves and it's coming. I can't hear you,
like it was so fun, it was such like glorious.
We spent a whole afternoon just doing that and there
was nothing there.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
It was right, there was nothing. It was just your imagination,
which we love. But also I love her usage of
kindred spirit Like I love those terms so much. I
think that would be the vibe check now because if
I'm passive check But I'm just kidding. But like the
kindred spirits, the idea that you can connect with a
person and though that you may not be able to
see it the way or you connect, they are the

(39:29):
one who is on the same level as you and
in spirit with you. And that's I just love that
so much.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I do too, and I again like I also love.
None of that was in the romantic context. All of
that was just the no we are yeah, we are
on the same level, we are connecting, and it was
all women from my memory.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah, No, Matthew was a kindred spirit.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Oh Matthew. M yeah, but they're nothing romantic.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Definitely, like it's a connection and understanding that you get,
you get my ways. Yes, the level of the small town,
the conversations, you know, the first scene, like the third
fourth scene at the beginning, we see Rachel Lynn watching
Matthew in his suit traveling not on a Sunday with

(40:19):
a pipe. Oh my god, what's happening?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Mm hmm. And then that's kind of the kerfuffle at
the end with Gilbert and Anne is that he offered
her her ride, she accepted it. Then he offered her like, well,
i'll take you to this concert she was going to
perform at.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
She accepted it, and then it was like the talk of.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
The town and she was like, oh no, never mind,
I won't go with him, Diana, give him this note,
I'm not going.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, but that's I.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Mean, I know it kind of like you know, bingo
card spinty Bingo card would be me and Samantha from
a small town. But it is true, like these things
are true and real and they in fl w your decisions.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
I remember my mother saying, so I heard you were
driving a little too fast in town. We need to talk.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
About what, yes, what it's like the tiniest like I
heard you got the milkshake at Windy's or whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right, you shouldn't be doing that. It's like who saw me?
How told on me? Who's not right?

Speaker 3 (41:23):
But I do love that. And then we have the
independent woman old maid the slashes scored to how you
look at it, And we talked about it before, about
all those strong, really independent women who still has a
lingering of guilt. So we're gonna talk about the fact
that this is like the feminism probably of the nineteen hundreds,
like Montgomery did want to establish. Probably these characters. I

(41:43):
could be wrong in being alone, but they could not
be completely happy, because at that point in time, you
really a single woman should not be correct.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
It was definitely as I said, the older missus, Miss
Barry said, like, you know, I got the money, but
sometimes that's not Sometimes I missed. I think I missed
out or that's not everything. And I felt like the
implication was maybe you should look at Gilbert an maybe
I'm wrong, and that's a fine opinion to have. But
then there was also throughout kind of this understanding of

(42:16):
if you pursue your independence as.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
A woman, you won't get the man.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
So even like, there were plenty of independent women throughout,
which I loved, but the implication also was, like they're independent,
so they.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Couldn't get the man.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
And then also throughout there was this kind of like
with Anne, I'd rather be beautiful than smart, Like you
can't be both.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
You have to be beautiful or smart.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
So I feel like this is kind of the early
understanding of a woman can't have it all. She has
to either be kind of the homemaker beautiful to get
the man, or the independent, smart woman who will never
get the man. And this is all very heteronormative, and
I don't believe this, but this is right.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
No, but this is the nineteen hundreds and when we
talk about and we will talk about Jane Austen, that
was that similar phase as well. But we know that
Jane Austen's history was a little dark in her own
life because of that very conversation about not necessarily that
you can't have it all, but more so that women
are not going to survive without a man, and if
you try to do it, you're going to fail. So

(43:25):
it's so therefore trying to be that way with the
most independence that you can have, which is what she
is trying to do. You see this in the same way.
Miss Stacy is a prime example of coming in her,
loving her life and looking up to her and seeing
her as a role model. And then Miss Stacy said,
I have my own troubles. We don't know what those

(43:45):
troubles are, but she's gone, and we know that it
pretty much ran her out of avon Lea for what reason,
we don't know, but she was one of the best
teachers from what we can tell that was there. I mean,
the dude before war was literally courting one of the
women one of the kids.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
At those schools. Yes, and everybody.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
That situation and although it was frowned upon eventually, but
it was like wow, okay, and he did not like Anne,
but he knew she was smart, like all of those things, Like,
we know that that's what happened. We know that there's
an implication here Marilla says, the same people talk about
her behind her back for losing love essentially, not as

(44:30):
much just on Matthew even though he is alone, but
you know whatever. On top of that, I do love
the scene where Miss Stacey comes and talks to them
about the dead Mouse scene, about her doing the extra classes,
and Marilla says, I've always thought that a young woman
should have should be prepared to make their own living,

(44:53):
just in case at these uncertain times, which I'm like,
that's nineteen hundreds. Go ahead, Marilla, you are really progressed.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
But yeah, you're right. That was a conversation too.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Throughout of like there was a lot of that small
town like talking behind people's backs, and for Marilla to
be alone and to have like quote lost this love
clearly people were kind of talking about it and sort
of raising their eyebrow and come back, okay not I.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Mean like I'm becoming.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
You are now, can't. I can't stop it? And you know, also,
I love if they actually do focus on Ann's academics
on all that, like they do push her to become
more and they are celebrating her for being so smart.
There's no conversation about you're not going to get man,
if you're too smart, well kind of of course, Rachel
has one word to say, but then Marilla cuts her

(45:48):
off very quickly. But outside of that, people celebrate this.
They people are pushing her to be this. This is
competition is fierce, and people are celebrating, including Gilbert, including.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Gilbert, including Gilbert.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
And I mean again, when I was like, oh, this
is from early nineteen hundreds, oh wow, because at that time,
I'm that was pretty uncommon right to see her to
hear and there was certainly like a layer of like
it was very minimal, actually, but there was a layer
of like, wow, look at what she can do, is
like an orphan and a woman. But mostly it was

(46:24):
just like, yeah, you get it.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about how she's doing avonlea proud
and she is go ahead. But I love that. I
think that's like, it is so progressive for a time being. Again,
if this is different in the books, please let us know,
because I do want to know. I don't think it's
too far for it far string for this one. But

(46:48):
I love that whole avenue that she loves studying, she
loves being on top, and she's going to be on
top hell yeah, which leads into like, this is the
feminism in nineteen hundreds, right, So the conversation in this
paper that I am talking about talks about the fact
that yes, she celebrates her being independent and a little

(47:09):
bit wild and doing her own thing and being imaginative,
but eventually still comes to as she grows accustomed to
society and cultural norms, she does settle into I just
I'm just going to be a teacher, staying at home
and settling down, and spoiler alert, in the books marries
Gilbert and has children, and that's her story. That does

(47:32):
not end of the story, but she does end up
these ways which she was so fearful of of, partially
in other ways. So it's really interesting to see. But
it's kind of how we'll talk about and how I
see it with Jane Austen. For what it was is revolutionary,
but for today Sanders is not so great in itself.

(48:07):
But they also talk about the idea of eco feminism
in Anne green Gables, giving the connection to nature and
becoming a proper lady. So the idea is you let
go of the natural, wild person, the untainted from civilized
society quote unquote, to become a part of the norm

(48:27):
to be a proper lady. And so they kind of
have this whole breakdown. It's a Swedish paper by the way,
about it, and they break down the orphan anity the
young Annie to adult Annie and how it has changed her.
The idea that's combining feminist aspects and ecocritical aspects that
in order to argue that Anne's wilderness a quote. Anne's

(48:50):
wildness and her fearless freedom for societies pressing judgments are
highly connected to her own connection to nature. So it
has this whole level of her and like when you
you see her come into Avon Lee, she's like, oh
my God, Like she is actually awestruck for a second
about the beauties of it. And when we talk about
her going into the city life quote unquote, she talks

(49:11):
about how she misses and longs for the sounds and
the quietness of Avon Lee. But the fact, like comparing
her when she was not a part of society and
when she was not a proper lady and she was
just a wild orphan versus what happens to her when
she does become that does her feminism change a little bit?
Has that taken that away from her? And this big

(49:33):
part of who she is in society. Has she tamed
herself and kind of stepped away from her feminism to
become a part of the patriarch, which is the dicidal
norm of that time and of today even And I
found that very interesting in this conversation because again when
we talk about the academics of uh and and her

(49:56):
her pursuits, and again you'll see and the sequel. Of
course this is talking about the books, but in the
sequel of the movie, Yeah, it kind of explores that
longing to be independent and to travel and to be adventurous.
But then coming back to eh, eh, but what am
I missing?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, I think that that is the question Smith.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
I think that is a question that is huge for
a lot of.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Women that we've talked about before, because like, there are
just certain structural, systemic things that are hard to escape.
And I think that it's you know, if you want to,

(50:46):
you find somebody, you love them in this headin order
of sense of man and a woman, you love them,
you get married. We can't deny that there are still
structural things in favor of the man and the relationship
and the woman.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
So it's like it's hard to escape. I guess that
is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
And so when you talk about like the city life,
it almost feels like you're talking about, oh, how do
I fit into these structures that we have in place?
And for this in particular, there's sort of this dichotomy
of her, like you know, at Green Gables in the wild,

(51:25):
being very like independent, and then her going in to
the city, which she also likes, and she says and
she wants to experience those things, but it requires a
certain level of conformity to not be like shunned from society, right.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Right, And yeah, absolutely, I think that's kind of her
whole thing is to fit in. But if she's going
to be seen, she wants to be seen in the
best light, and what does that look like in this
type of society. I didn't want to go into one
thing that this paper says. It says other thing that
appears in the novel is the wish to fit in,

(52:04):
to be normal. Regarding this, one can also see strong
connection between women and nature and was forced to cave
to society both regarding the feminists and the ecocritical aspects
of her life and adapt accordingly. Again, this is about
the novel but I think it's Sun in the movie
and just kind of that theme in general about like
I am my own person and don't take my spirit
from me. But at the same time, yes, I do

(52:25):
have to acclimate and or stand out and the best
way possible.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Right, Yeah, exactly, because I think she it was a
very fine line she was walking, because the reason she
got a lot of the attention she did was because
she didn't fit in and so especially like I'm thinking
of the older miss Barry who's like, oh, you make
me laugh, oh, and I really like you. You speak
your mind, and a lot of people in this city

(52:52):
life don't. But then at the same time, it was
her having to figure out, you know, you can't do
these things without having to do this kind of drawn
out apology, even if the other person was in the
wrong or a bunch of things she had to learn
and had to adapt to. That does feel a bit

(53:14):
of like attaining And I'm not saying that sometimes you
get angry even if it's somebody in the wrong, you
gotta apologize, But a lot of it felt kind of
like she was having to learn to kind of close
this part off and sit in. Right.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Yes, there's so much like, there's so much more I
probably could go into, and if we really wanted, I
could just expand upon many ideals of her, like even
with a dress, trying to be pretty and being the
best of everything, trying to impress Marilla but also show appreciation.
There's so many to this. Yes, and I don't believe.

(53:54):
I'm sorry. Maybe I'm going to have people maybe at me.
Maybe the younger generation Megan follows is an to me
and will always be, and Jonathan Cromb will always be Gilbert.
It's kind of I have this similar opinion about uh
since Invisibility, about Colin Colin Firth being the only Darcy.

(54:15):
I will fight you. I will fight you.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Oh my god, I want to start like a bracket.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
I love this because my friend Marissa, who I said
she loves and Gables, she said the very same thing. Yeah,
she said the very same thing. So I'm all about it.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I'm all about it. I want to come back and
do I think we should do the next one.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I think I'm aady Okay, me too, me too. Well
look out for that listeners and send your opinions.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Plus, what are you ready to fight me? Come on't
fight me?

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Because I remember you were like, this is my version
of Star Wars.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
I was like, I'm so happy, I'm so excited. I
want to see it. I want to see it.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Well, you can send those opinions to our email, which
is Steffanidian moms Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always
to our super producer, Christina. Thank you, Christina, Yes, and
thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You
is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, you
can check out the ietradio app, Apple Podcasts

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Or Regula listen to your favorite shows

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Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.

Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2

Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2

Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.

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