November 8, 2023 • 31 mins
Cyberstalking is a frightening (and often misunderstood and dismissed) experience. Anney and Samantha dig into the facts and numbers around cyberstalking and sextortion, and discuss some ways we can we protect ourselves online in this classic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and a come to
Stuff I'll Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And today
we are bringing back the episode we did on cyberstalking
and sextortion.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Because I have seen a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Of stuff in the news lately, especially as AI proliferates
about how this has changed and around, like deep fakes
women and revenge porn, which I think we're going to
have to come back and talk about, but even not
revenge porn, and just how it's changing the pornography industry
(00:47):
and romance scamps because we've talked kind of about how
I have sat down with my mom and said, you
know what, I speak on the internet for a living.
AI could call you make these threats. We're using my
voice or something, but it is also happening in the
romance scam world. So I think we're gonna have to
(01:08):
come back and revisit these topics. But before we do that,
please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Andy and Samantha.
I'm welcome to stef I've Never Told your protection of iHeartRadio.
(01:33):
I have a very simple question for you today, Samantha,
do you put tape over your webcam?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So I used to put post it notes over my
webcam the new computer I've got.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You actually have a little button and you could just
slide it over so it covers up. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
so I do that.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
This is that kind of I mean, that's nice, but
also very telling of our times and what we're.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Talking about today. Yep, I have tape over mine.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I didn't have it for a while because I got
a new laptop, but then I was researching this episode
and in the middle of it, I went and found tape.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
It's in starting for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And with that being said, today we are talking about
cyber stalking and sex stortion, So trigger warning for some
abusive behavior, some controlling behavior and stalking and yeah, sexual
abuse and domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I dat that in there. And this has been on
my mind because, as.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I spoken about on the show, I recently lost my
phone and I did Samantha Nose, I did all kinds
of things to try to find it. I was like
text this thing to my phone, and I was doing
the you know, Google FID on my phone, and I
was looking online because you know, everything was like it's
easy to find your lost phone, but and it would
say you have to install, install this before you lost it.
(02:57):
But while I was desperately searched for a way to
find my phone, I ran across so many of these
top Google search suggestions of things like how to spy
on your wife, how to find out if your wife
is cheating, so many apps to install secretly on someone's phone.
(03:18):
And this is like within the first two pages of Google.
When I'm like, I want to find my lost phone,
this is what was coming up and I have I've
talked about it before, I know, on an episode we
did with bridget about how this is a new genre
of horror that really freaks me out, this whole kind
of cnyper stalking, spying thing. There's that whole really disturbing
(03:38):
Black Mirror episode about it. For some reason, I'm reading
a creepy fan fiction about it that really disturbs me.
I wasn't and I didn't know that so where it
was going to go, But it did, and now I
can't stop reading.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
So I don't know what do about that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And then I don't know if you do this matha
But I talked to like the man that watches me
as in like in theory this like government, poor government,
SAP that is like, Wow, she's reading more fan fiction.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I did not do that.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You don't talk to your the poor sphy. That's society.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But I have a dog to talk to, soh okay
replaces that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I got yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And then I was thinking about this today because our
company has some pretty big brother type policies.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So hello, big brother company.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I used to have a friend who worked at a
company in our building, and they had to put in
a flash drive every time when they arrived to work
so that the flashive would record everything they every website,
they did everything they did in the computer, and then
they would take out the flash drive and turn it
back in so they could look at what was on there.
And it's just one of those things where that could
(04:49):
be abused so easily.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, especially the work we do, could you imagine?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Oh oh lord, we just talked about the fact like
we had the virginity up episode, We've had organic episodes,
We've had Staler women who Kill episodes. Yea, all those
are really concerning. If you just saw like, are you
looking up like nothing, I'm find for QAnon all of
(05:16):
those things.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Right right, we would we would raise some suspicions.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
For sure, well, I would also as a social worker
go into like kids sites and look to make sure
I can find people see if I can stop them,
like I have to try to hunt them down and
make sure they're okay. I had to go into kids
sites when they would post like sexual explicit stuff like
you have to take this down.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
This is you know, child porn stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So I, oh, god, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And talk about stalking stop.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I try not to think about it too much. And
I know it's like a running joke.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And I even texted my friend and was like, if
I die, you know, destroy my computer, destroying my search
history and work stuff aside. I think people would be
they would give me some wiggle room for that. But
even like, think the stuff I do isn't that people
wouldn't be surprised if the fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Like no, I don't know, but I still wanted.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I was like, clease, it's kind of like I have
a setup, and likef I disappear, you go to these places,
take these things and get rid of those things, not
because or anything.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Bad, but I'm more embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Right exactly. It's the embarrassment you're not there to defend.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yourselves, That's right, that's how I feel too, and it
makes you sound so much shadier.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
We're not hiding anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
We have done past episodes on stalking. Check those out
if you want to learn more. We did also discuss
a lot of what we're going to be talking about
in our grooming episode and the recent episode we did
with bridget about online harassment. All of that's kind of
about play in this conversation, and then I did want
to put this in here. Earlier in twenty twenty one,
over thirty women sued the website porn Hub and their
(06:53):
parent company mind Geek for operating as a quote, classic
criminal enterprise and hosting and profiting from content that, according
to them, is non consensual that may involve child pornography,
sex trafficking, and rape and sexual assault. The lawsuit claims
that the site and the company behind it allowed for
the posting, incentivization, and monetization of this content. In the
(07:15):
words of one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs, the
case is not about consensual porn or negligence. It's about
a porn company's intentional election to include in their business
model rape and other non consensual content. The lawsuit alleges
that the company purchased bolt content from sex traffickers and
hit it under shell corporations. Some girls report being pressured
(07:36):
by boyfriends to send videos of them undressing, which then
got posted. So that is also part of what we're
going to be talking about. And this is a complicated
situation that often gets oversimplified. Of course, any of this
content they're talking about should get taken down, and porn
Hub should be held accountable for the content they host.
But at the same time, you do get conservative groups
(07:58):
to crying porn in general, that muddy is the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And we've talked about that before. You see that with
like qubanon and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But yeah, this is not exactly what we're talking about today,
but we are talking about things that allow for stuff
like this to happen.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Right, So let's get into the basics. Yes, what is
cyber stalking? According to Marshall, cyberstocking refers to the use
of the Internet, email, or other telecommunication technologies to harass
or stalk another person. It's not the mere annoyance of
an unsolicited email.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
We get all those.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
We know that it is methodical, deliberate, and persistent. The communication,
whether from someone known or unknown, do not stop even
after the recipient has asked the sender to cease all contacts,
and are often filled with inappropriate and sometimes really disturbing content.
Cyberstocking is an extension of the physical form of stalking.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes, and it's related to sex stortion, which is a
term that first started popping up in twenty ten, though
it may have first appeared in nineteen fifty. The DOJ
addressed it in twenty eleven and the FBI cautioned about
it in twenty twelve. So this is when someone threatens
to release sensitive information, images, or videos unless the target
sends nude pictures, performs a sexual favor, pays them some money,
(09:15):
becomes a quote, camslave, things like that, maybe a mixture
of all those things. Both of these cyberstocking and sextortion
do more directly impact girls and women. Experts estimate that
the number of people affected by cyberstocking is in the
tens of thousands, but could be in the hundreds of thousands.
(09:36):
In twenty eighteen, there were sixteen, nine hundred and seventy
four complaints of cyberstocking filed with the FBI. Only sixteen
were prosecuted. The FBI has reported to recent uptick in
cases that fall under federal cyberstocking laws, although that's kind
of complicated.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
There's no real federal cyberstocking law. We'll get into that.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
There are things that it falls under the head of
the Homeland Security investigation. Since here in Atlanta said when
asked about this, predators used to stop playgrounds.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
This is the new playground, right.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think one of the biggest problems that we've talked
about this before is that the laws cannot keep up
with technology. I guess something that probably can do bit.
So while we often think of women being the victims
of sextortion, men and boys are not immune. They may
be enticed into performing sex acts in front of webcams
with an attractive woman who may herself be coerced, unaware
(10:29):
they are being recorded, and they are all then threatened
with this release of the footage and often very often
shane for it and guilted into it, and this has
in some cases led to suicide.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
We know some of our teen deaths because of this.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
In some cases, male perpetrators have impersonated significant others to
trick women into sending them sexual videos.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yes, and many perpetrators target women and girls who are
expiring actors and models under the guise of offering them
a role. Others would it as celebrities such as Justin
Bieber to demand at nude pictures from young girls. Sometimes
they edit the material to look as though they've posted
compromising images or videos to porn sites, so they'll make
(11:12):
it look like they did. Maybe they actually didn't, but
they'll send you something that makes you think that they did.
And many people who perpetrate these acts report that it
is all about power, feeling like you are controlling someone
and it's really heartbreaking to read, like the text exchanges
of you know, a young girl being like you're ruining
my life, please stop, and they're like no, why, really
(11:35):
really heartbreaking And yeah, as an actor, I've seen this.
And our agent will send out messages and be like,
if you get the message from this guy, he has
nothing to do with anything in movie or film. He's
just asking for pictures of people and that's just a
part of our business. It's like a message that goes
out two people in an occupation.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It's just odd.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Cyber bullying is a part of this conversation. Two and
some argue that cyber stocking is a form of cyber bullying.
So a lot of times when you look up cyberstocking,
you'll end up in cyber bullying websites that have kind
of a little section about cyber stocking.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I do think it is, well, it's not like new,
it's new.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
We're in terms of people really trying to combat it
or think about how we can protect ourselves from it,
and how big of an issue that it is. Right,
So we do have some more numbers and specifics for you,
but first we have a quick break for a word
from our.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So, just like stocking, cyber stocking is usually perpetrated by
someone the victim knows co workers, exes, significant others, and friends. However,
like I was saying before, this is still kind of new,
especially in terms of data collection, and so some places
say that kind of the opposite thing, where it's somebody
who has this.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Freedom of the internet can do it from wherever.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
So it makes sense to me that it would be
someone you know, but also makes sense that it would
be somebody who's just looking for someone to target women
aged between eighteen to thirty are the most common targets.
Once that, he found that sex stortion in particular victimizes
children under eighteen at our rate of seventy one percent
(13:35):
compared to stoking. Some experts argue that because of things
like the lack of obstacles, instant gratification, lack of need
to be in the same geographic location, and difficulty to prosecute,
cyberstalking is more common and more attractive for perpetrators. Sextortionists
are almost all male, many are repeat offenders. Most do
(13:58):
not adhere to the conditions of their sex. So if
they say send me this and then I'll give you
whatever back, most of them don't. As I learned when
looking online about how to find a lost phone, there
are so many apps out there that can be used
to spy on people, and their functionalities are terrifying, like
location tracking, remote use of camera. There's also a bunch
(14:18):
of apps that quote guarantee to put a stop to
cyberstocking for a price, which I can't speak to whether
or not they work or not. But I find that
really infuriating that you could be in a terrifying situation
and it's you're desperate and you go and are like, okay,
one hundred dollars will just fix this, and then might
not fix it right.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And that's kind of the same thing with identity fraud,
when we have these major corporations who decided to take
advantage of it and be like, pay us a monthly
fee and we'll write maybe right. If not, we'll help
you get it back, maybe we'll try. But I think
that's also a thing. And I know also out there
within the dark web there are white knights, I believe,
(14:58):
who try to come in and infiltrate systems to let
people be aware. So we had that situation of the
dude who had a camera, a ring camera, and they
actually started talking to each other. He was like, hey,
their numbers listed on the web, they can get you
real quick. And they had this thing, is like, what
change a password right now? So there's definitely that too,
I think a little more rare, still just as creepy maybe,
(15:21):
but a nice way.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So speaking of creepy, imagine you have
a friend, our partner that knows your pen to your phone.
You leave the room for something, they could easily change
settings in your phone and saw a hidden spyware app
things like that. Sometimes these apps are called spouseware or stalkerware.
These apps are usually specifically marketed as a way to
(15:50):
track your spouse and catch some cheating like they're not
even hiding. Others called dual use apps are not intended
to be used for cyperstalking, but things like the I
Lost my Phone app, or apps you used to keep
track of where your kids are or something like find
my Friends can be modified to track someone without their knowledge.
(16:12):
Google and Apple claim to have consulted domestic violence groups
to address these concerns, but most of their advice still
requires that you are the verily suspicious and aware of
the ins and outs of technology, So you would still
have to have some level of I don't trust my
friend or spouse or whatever right, which a lot of
people don't necessarily have. Because when I was looking this up,
(16:34):
and I've considered myself pretty technologically savvy, I was like, wait,
this is terrifying, right.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
So, one NPR survey of eighty two domestic violence shelters
found that eighty five percent of them had to help
people with whose partners used GPS to.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Track their movements.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And by the way, we've also seen cases, murder cases,
quick kidnapping cases, any type of cases where detectives and
law enforcement actually used this as well. They tracked I
remember the one case they tracked a watch, a fitness
watch for a rape case, and there was a hole
back and forth about is this mating people's rights? Is
this constitutionally okay? Yeah, but just your and I have.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
One of these.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I have a fitness watch, but it definitely locates your
GPS and it also shows what you're doing sort of
kind of tailed by the monitoring, really creepy, but I
use it. And then seventy five percent dealt with partners
who spied on them with apps. And many of these
shelters have a digital detoc center. And if you've ever
seen a spy movie, you know you gotta get rid
(17:37):
of your phone. You go get it of your GPS. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
So a lot of these domestic violence shelters provide like
a what we would call like a brick phone, right, essentially,
all it does is call and that is it. So
this this NPR SETI also profiled an app called m
spy for about seventy dollars a month. This app instructs
you how to install it and then hide any trace
of it, even with a verified symbol next to it
(18:02):
making it look legit. It monitors text messages, call logs,
call recordings, pictures, videos, every website visited, every key type.
This allows people to figure out people's usernames and passwords.
It could be used to block phone numbers, further isolating
the victim, and location tracking all on top of that.
(18:23):
But one of the scariest things is the eavesdrop function.
When someone calls, whether you answer or not, the speaker
phone is activated and recording starts. So as someone who
gets like probably twenty spam calls a day, that would
be a lot a lot of eavesdropping that could happen
to me.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Right, So, most but not all states have laws against
cyber stocking, and it's recent and those that don't usually
they'll prosecute cyber stocking under harassment or stalking laws. There
isn't a federal law against cyber stocking, but there is
one that covers it. So so many loopholes. However, many
officials aren't fully up to date on the ways people
(19:04):
can be harassed and victimized using technology. We know this,
many of them don't even understand the technology. Many of
them don't believe this technology right, which makes this whole
thing super difficult. Many law enforcement officers don't have the resources.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Even though they get millions of dollars, they have lots
of weapons.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Just all that.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Some outlets have pointed out, the prosecution is frequently quite
lenient and they are even no matter what, and we've
seen them in way too many cases when it comes
to bullying. They don't even have that on record for
face to face bullying, so having it on internet text
doesn't worry, especially when you start talking about the First Amendment,
(19:44):
which is completely misinterpreted for this specifically.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, and there are so many case studies or examples
that were given in researching this, and I know we've
talked about them before, but where women would you know,
be like, I'm being cybersdoctor, this is what's happening to me,
And they would have to explain the technology, like they
would have to do this whole extra step.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And then kind of having yeah, this amused, like are
you sure this is a big response? Can't you just
delete it?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
And this doesn't include the victim blaming that is associated
with all of this. So immediately, if you will have
a sexy picture, your credibility goes out of the window.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, So the technology available and the level of data
collection that happens on the Internet just at large has
played into these high numbers of cyberstocking that are yes,
continuously going up. So on top of all the things
we've talked about with phone, there's also cyberstalking online and
that can involve similar things like tracking online in stelling,
(20:44):
tracking apps on someone's laptop, and also yeah, access to cameras,
sending unsolicited or threatening messages, overwhelming a target of cyberstocking's
chat channels with messages, starting online rumors, or sharing videos
or pictures edited or not without consent, like revenge porn, blackmailing,
setting up websites that host stories that may be true
(21:05):
are not about the person breaking into online accounts to
pose as a person and ruin their reputation, spywear, oh,
and even like hidden cameras in people's homes with some
audio capabilities.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Things like that.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All of this usually takes place over time, and it
is a very very scary experience that is yes, often dismissed.
Cyberstalking can result and negative outcomes like trouble sleeping, hyper vigilance, nightmares,
high levels of stress, trouble eating, feelings of loss of
control and safety, feelings of helplessness, fear and isolation, things
(21:40):
like that.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah, there's so many things.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So online dating has also played into this, which sucks
because a part of dating could be sending sexypects messages
or videos.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
I've never done that. Part of this is because I
worked in social work. I knew what was happening.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
But since at least ninety percent of the US is
fifty four million single people have tried online dating, there's
a lot for would be cyberstogglers to mine from. And
thinks to the fact we're constantly tied to our phones
as I am, computers and other technology. There are so
many avenues for us to be victimized and you can
turn things but depend on into sources of fear and harassment.
(22:19):
And yeah, when it's on, when they have one picture,
it doesn't even matter, it can be there for it's
there forever.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Like I remember having to show.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
A kid who had been sending pics of herself to
a boy, which I was like, this is a huge
say this canna come back bite if you're not careful.
And also the fact that you're sending a picture of
yourself can actually be considered child born other story, but
having to show her that I could go back and
pull it up for our she was kind of like, oh,
(22:47):
so definitely it doesn't disappear.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, and it is really really unfortunate because we're not
looking to fear amonger or anything, but right just something
you should should be aware of. And it sucks. It
does because you shouldn't have to.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Worry about that.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
If you're dating online and you do want to send
the sexy picture. It is extremely unfortunate that that is
something we have.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
To worry about.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And yeah, a lot of people, especially people who were
like got the flooded of channels or whatever, they would
just talk about how like every notification they'd get on
their phone would just send this fear fear through them.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And it is something we depend on.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is something that a lot of us use for
all kinds of fun things, so to have it turned
into that. So some experts break down cyberstalking into types.
One of the most common is emails cyberstocking. This can
involve trying to fix a relationship, start a relationship, threatening
or traumatizing it through unsolicited messages, sending viruses, or flooding
(23:51):
at someone's inbox. Then there's internet cyberstocking with the goal
of slandering are threatening the victim. This can involve breaking
into accounts, spoofing, sending pornographic images, and using spyware. Doxing
can fall under this too, posting private information, posing as
the victim and asking strangers for sexual activity, or building
(24:13):
entire websites, yes, with the intent of inviting strangers to
degrade and harass the victim. Victims have reported strangers showing
up at their door a place of work expecting sex.
In one case, over one thousand people showed up at
his home. But then there are computer cyberstalkers, stalkers who
control the victim's computer, which is.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Also terrifying.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Also terrifying, So we do have some advice, but first
we're going to pause for one more group brick for
a word term or sponsor.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
We're back, Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So, if you suspect or have confirmed you are the
target of cyberstocking, organizations have some steps and advice to take,
which is further complicated because a lot of it's online.
So again, if you haven't already looked this up. It
can be something frightening or perhaps not even possible in
your home devices. Here's what Marshall recommends. Trust your instincts
(25:24):
and exercise caution if you have an abuser who is
good with technology. So if you notice things like difficulty
churning off phone, or if it takes longer than normal,
an unexplained increase in your data bill, an increase in
battery changage, it could be a spyware app. Experts also
suggest checking to see if your phone is rooted or
jail broken. Backing up your phone is also a good idea.
(25:46):
All of this is with a caveat that a soccer
abuser may be able to see what you're doing, so
you have to take that into account and make sure
you're doing what is best for you and your particular
situation on this scurity questions. Don't answer with something guessable,
answer with something weird. I've been doing this for years.
Works for me as far as.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I know right. Have a safety plan in place.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Organizations like RAIN or the National Sexual Assault Hotline can
help with this, and some have quick clothes features for laptops.
I know there's been a lot of features that allow
for that and also features.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I could ask for help, but it looks like you're
talking to a friend.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
You can also seek out a safer computer at a
public place if you think yours might be compromised, and
this is an option for you.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, create new email accounts.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Look at the settings in your phone, stuff like security, GPS,
changing passwords and pin numbers.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
When I lost my phone that.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
It was like over several days, I kept thinking of
other things I had to change my password on, like
oh yeah, that one too.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Use a corded phone for a more private conversation. Again,
if this is something you have access to, baby monitors
can be listened in on as well.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Get a newer donated phone.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Some crisis centers, like we said, provide these if possible.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Learn more about policies of agencies and companies when it
comes to publishing online data. We talked about options like
delete me in a recent episode with Bridget that can
help you find and delete public information. Get a private
mailbox for communications. Do you want to keep private and
covering your webcam with as any does removable tape If
(27:25):
yours doesn't have the feature that allows you to just
shut it off.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Just slide it on over.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, they also recommended things like using a gender neutral password,
never giving out your password. So I know a lot
of us are guilty of never giving out personal information
to a site or online entity you don't trust. And
if you have children, instruct them on these security measures too.
Don't respond to an email from an unknown person. Regularly
search your name to see what it comes up. That
(27:51):
takes a lot of courage, I know. But on top
of that, most organizations suggest keeping an incident log of
any communications with the cyberstalker. And yes, having these conversations
with children so they know how to stay safe online,
and something else that could help that. We talked about
a lot more data right now. The situation is seriously
(28:13):
understudied and misunderstood. Like as I was saying, as we
were going through this, I saw conflicting things all over the.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
First Yeah, I mean, when it comes to anonymity and
the Internet, it gives a lot of free access and
stuff like swatting. That's a whole different level when you
come to like twitch and all those things. And yeah,
that's the other part is there's more and more technology,
things like Amazon on their Alexa do in the sidewalk
feature but that immediate was like nope, because it shows
(28:42):
it for some reason, wants.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
You to share with the pay strangers, and I feel like, hey, Amazon,
that's dumb.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Dumb. Also things like Google, who have been accused repeatedly
of data mining, as well as having companies that.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Are all the time act Yeah, all the.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Credit card companies, all the credit overseeing companies, like they
get all that information and identities being sold because they
have features like that. We're not even talking about that
as part of the cyberstocking because yeah, that's easily accessible.
We've known for a long time. If you go to
white Pages and you want to pay some money, you
can get complete access to home phone number address.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
You just have to pay ten dollars a subscription.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, which is really really absurd and quite quite alarming
as in fact, so that doesn't even include any of that.
We're talking more about the personal level. But when it
comes to and we've talked about this with bridget corporate
responsibility and no one really really actually dealing with that,
that's a whole different conversation.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
It is.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
It's another one of those things where so much of
the advice for giving in this is basically putting the
impetus on you and the responsibility on you to be
vigilant when you shouldn't have to be so concerned that
a company that you use got hacked right now, right, and.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, we shouldn't have to pay extra money for buying
a service that should have been already included in the
service that we're paying for right right.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Just we'll salt you just a little.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Listeners, As always, we would love to hear from you.
You can email us that Stephania mom Steff at iheartmia
dot com. You can find us on Instagram at steff
I Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You. The
production of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from iHeartRadio. It
is a the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and a come to
Stuff I'll Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And today
we are bringing back the episode we did on cyberstalking
and sextortion.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Because I have seen a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Of stuff in the news lately, especially as AI proliferates
about how this has changed and around, like deep fakes
women and revenge porn, which I think we're going to
have to come back and talk about, but even not
revenge porn, and just how it's changing the pornography industry
(00:47):
and romance scamps because we've talked kind of about how
I have sat down with my mom and said, you
know what, I speak on the internet for a living.
AI could call you make these threats. We're using my
voice or something, but it is also happening in the
romance scam world. So I think we're gonna have to
(01:08):
come back and revisit these topics. But before we do that,
please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Andy and Samantha.
I'm welcome to stef I've Never Told your protection of iHeartRadio.
(01:33):
I have a very simple question for you today, Samantha,
do you put tape over your webcam?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So I used to put post it notes over my
webcam the new computer I've got.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You actually have a little button and you could just
slide it over so it covers up. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
so I do that.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
This is that kind of I mean, that's nice, but
also very telling of our times and what we're.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Talking about today. Yep, I have tape over mine.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I didn't have it for a while because I got
a new laptop, but then I was researching this episode
and in the middle of it, I went and found tape.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
It's in starting for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And with that being said, today we are talking about
cyber stalking and sex stortion, So trigger warning for some
abusive behavior, some controlling behavior and stalking and yeah, sexual
abuse and domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I dat that in there. And this has been on
my mind because, as.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I spoken about on the show, I recently lost my
phone and I did Samantha Nose, I did all kinds
of things to try to find it. I was like
text this thing to my phone, and I was doing
the you know, Google FID on my phone, and I
was looking online because you know, everything was like it's
easy to find your lost phone, but and it would
say you have to install, install this before you lost it.
(02:57):
But while I was desperately searched for a way to
find my phone, I ran across so many of these
top Google search suggestions of things like how to spy
on your wife, how to find out if your wife
is cheating, so many apps to install secretly on someone's phone.
(03:18):
And this is like within the first two pages of Google.
When I'm like, I want to find my lost phone,
this is what was coming up and I have I've
talked about it before, I know, on an episode we
did with bridget about how this is a new genre
of horror that really freaks me out, this whole kind
of cnyper stalking, spying thing. There's that whole really disturbing
(03:38):
Black Mirror episode about it. For some reason, I'm reading
a creepy fan fiction about it that really disturbs me.
I wasn't and I didn't know that so where it
was going to go, But it did, and now I
can't stop reading.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
So I don't know what do about that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And then I don't know if you do this matha
But I talked to like the man that watches me
as in like in theory this like government, poor government,
SAP that is like, Wow, she's reading more fan fiction.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I did not do that.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You don't talk to your the poor sphy. That's society.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But I have a dog to talk to, soh okay
replaces that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I got yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And then I was thinking about this today because our
company has some pretty big brother type policies.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So hello, big brother company.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I used to have a friend who worked at a
company in our building, and they had to put in
a flash drive every time when they arrived to work
so that the flashive would record everything they every website,
they did everything they did in the computer, and then
they would take out the flash drive and turn it
back in so they could look at what was on there.
And it's just one of those things where that could
(04:49):
be abused so easily.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, especially the work we do, could you imagine?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Oh oh lord, we just talked about the fact like
we had the virginity up episode, We've had organic episodes,
We've had Staler women who Kill episodes. Yea, all those
are really concerning. If you just saw like, are you
looking up like nothing, I'm find for QAnon all of
(05:16):
those things.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Right right, we would we would raise some suspicions.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
For sure, well, I would also as a social worker
go into like kids sites and look to make sure
I can find people see if I can stop them,
like I have to try to hunt them down and
make sure they're okay. I had to go into kids
sites when they would post like sexual explicit stuff like
you have to take this down.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
This is you know, child porn stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So I, oh, god, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And talk about stalking stop.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I try not to think about it too much. And
I know it's like a running joke.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And I even texted my friend and was like, if
I die, you know, destroy my computer, destroying my search
history and work stuff aside. I think people would be
they would give me some wiggle room for that. But
even like, think the stuff I do isn't that people
wouldn't be surprised if the fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Like no, I don't know, but I still wanted.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I was like, clease, it's kind of like I have
a setup, and likef I disappear, you go to these places,
take these things and get rid of those things, not
because or anything.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Bad, but I'm more embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Right exactly. It's the embarrassment you're not there to defend.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yourselves, That's right, that's how I feel too, and it
makes you sound so much shadier.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
We're not hiding anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
We have done past episodes on stalking. Check those out
if you want to learn more. We did also discuss
a lot of what we're going to be talking about
in our grooming episode and the recent episode we did
with bridget about online harassment. All of that's kind of
about play in this conversation, and then I did want
to put this in here. Earlier in twenty twenty one,
over thirty women sued the website porn Hub and their
(06:53):
parent company mind Geek for operating as a quote, classic
criminal enterprise and hosting and profiting from content that, according
to them, is non consensual that may involve child pornography,
sex trafficking, and rape and sexual assault. The lawsuit claims
that the site and the company behind it allowed for
the posting, incentivization, and monetization of this content. In the
(07:15):
words of one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs, the
case is not about consensual porn or negligence. It's about
a porn company's intentional election to include in their business
model rape and other non consensual content. The lawsuit alleges
that the company purchased bolt content from sex traffickers and
hit it under shell corporations. Some girls report being pressured
(07:36):
by boyfriends to send videos of them undressing, which then
got posted. So that is also part of what we're
going to be talking about. And this is a complicated
situation that often gets oversimplified. Of course, any of this
content they're talking about should get taken down, and porn
Hub should be held accountable for the content they host.
But at the same time, you do get conservative groups
(07:58):
to crying porn in general, that muddy is the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And we've talked about that before. You see that with
like qubanon and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But yeah, this is not exactly what we're talking about today,
but we are talking about things that allow for stuff
like this to happen.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Right, So let's get into the basics. Yes, what is
cyber stalking? According to Marshall, cyberstocking refers to the use
of the Internet, email, or other telecommunication technologies to harass
or stalk another person. It's not the mere annoyance of
an unsolicited email.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
We get all those.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
We know that it is methodical, deliberate, and persistent. The communication,
whether from someone known or unknown, do not stop even
after the recipient has asked the sender to cease all contacts,
and are often filled with inappropriate and sometimes really disturbing content.
Cyberstocking is an extension of the physical form of stalking.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes, and it's related to sex stortion, which is a
term that first started popping up in twenty ten, though
it may have first appeared in nineteen fifty. The DOJ
addressed it in twenty eleven and the FBI cautioned about
it in twenty twelve. So this is when someone threatens
to release sensitive information, images, or videos unless the target
sends nude pictures, performs a sexual favor, pays them some money,
(09:15):
becomes a quote, camslave, things like that, maybe a mixture
of all those things. Both of these cyberstocking and sextortion
do more directly impact girls and women. Experts estimate that
the number of people affected by cyberstocking is in the
tens of thousands, but could be in the hundreds of thousands.
(09:36):
In twenty eighteen, there were sixteen, nine hundred and seventy
four complaints of cyberstocking filed with the FBI. Only sixteen
were prosecuted. The FBI has reported to recent uptick in
cases that fall under federal cyberstocking laws, although that's kind
of complicated.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
There's no real federal cyberstocking law. We'll get into that.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
There are things that it falls under the head of
the Homeland Security investigation. Since here in Atlanta said when
asked about this, predators used to stop playgrounds.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
This is the new playground, right.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think one of the biggest problems that we've talked
about this before is that the laws cannot keep up
with technology. I guess something that probably can do bit.
So while we often think of women being the victims
of sextortion, men and boys are not immune. They may
be enticed into performing sex acts in front of webcams
with an attractive woman who may herself be coerced, unaware
(10:29):
they are being recorded, and they are all then threatened
with this release of the footage and often very often
shane for it and guilted into it, and this has
in some cases led to suicide.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
We know some of our teen deaths because of this.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
In some cases, male perpetrators have impersonated significant others to
trick women into sending them sexual videos.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yes, and many perpetrators target women and girls who are
expiring actors and models under the guise of offering them
a role. Others would it as celebrities such as Justin
Bieber to demand at nude pictures from young girls. Sometimes
they edit the material to look as though they've posted
compromising images or videos to porn sites, so they'll make
(11:12):
it look like they did. Maybe they actually didn't, but
they'll send you something that makes you think that they did.
And many people who perpetrate these acts report that it
is all about power, feeling like you are controlling someone
and it's really heartbreaking to read, like the text exchanges
of you know, a young girl being like you're ruining
my life, please stop, and they're like no, why, really
(11:35):
really heartbreaking And yeah, as an actor, I've seen this.
And our agent will send out messages and be like,
if you get the message from this guy, he has
nothing to do with anything in movie or film. He's
just asking for pictures of people and that's just a
part of our business. It's like a message that goes
out two people in an occupation.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It's just odd.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Cyber bullying is a part of this conversation. Two and
some argue that cyber stocking is a form of cyber bullying.
So a lot of times when you look up cyberstocking,
you'll end up in cyber bullying websites that have kind
of a little section about cyber stocking.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I do think it is, well, it's not like new,
it's new.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
We're in terms of people really trying to combat it
or think about how we can protect ourselves from it,
and how big of an issue that it is. Right,
So we do have some more numbers and specifics for you,
but first we have a quick break for a word
from our.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So, just like stocking, cyber stocking is usually perpetrated by
someone the victim knows co workers, exes, significant others, and friends. However,
like I was saying before, this is still kind of new,
especially in terms of data collection, and so some places
say that kind of the opposite thing, where it's somebody
who has this.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Freedom of the internet can do it from wherever.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
So it makes sense to me that it would be
someone you know, but also makes sense that it would
be somebody who's just looking for someone to target women
aged between eighteen to thirty are the most common targets.
Once that, he found that sex stortion in particular victimizes
children under eighteen at our rate of seventy one percent
(13:35):
compared to stoking. Some experts argue that because of things
like the lack of obstacles, instant gratification, lack of need
to be in the same geographic location, and difficulty to prosecute,
cyberstalking is more common and more attractive for perpetrators. Sextortionists
are almost all male, many are repeat offenders. Most do
(13:58):
not adhere to the conditions of their sex. So if
they say send me this and then I'll give you
whatever back, most of them don't. As I learned when
looking online about how to find a lost phone, there
are so many apps out there that can be used
to spy on people, and their functionalities are terrifying, like
location tracking, remote use of camera. There's also a bunch
(14:18):
of apps that quote guarantee to put a stop to
cyberstocking for a price, which I can't speak to whether
or not they work or not. But I find that
really infuriating that you could be in a terrifying situation
and it's you're desperate and you go and are like, okay,
one hundred dollars will just fix this, and then might
not fix it right.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And that's kind of the same thing with identity fraud,
when we have these major corporations who decided to take
advantage of it and be like, pay us a monthly
fee and we'll write maybe right. If not, we'll help
you get it back, maybe we'll try. But I think
that's also a thing. And I know also out there
within the dark web there are white knights, I believe,
(14:58):
who try to come in and infiltrate systems to let
people be aware. So we had that situation of the
dude who had a camera, a ring camera, and they
actually started talking to each other. He was like, hey,
their numbers listed on the web, they can get you
real quick. And they had this thing, is like, what
change a password right now? So there's definitely that too,
I think a little more rare, still just as creepy maybe,
(15:21):
but a nice way.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So speaking of creepy, imagine you have
a friend, our partner that knows your pen to your phone.
You leave the room for something, they could easily change
settings in your phone and saw a hidden spyware app
things like that. Sometimes these apps are called spouseware or stalkerware.
These apps are usually specifically marketed as a way to
(15:50):
track your spouse and catch some cheating like they're not
even hiding. Others called dual use apps are not intended
to be used for cyperstalking, but things like the I
Lost my Phone app, or apps you used to keep
track of where your kids are or something like find
my Friends can be modified to track someone without their knowledge.
(16:12):
Google and Apple claim to have consulted domestic violence groups
to address these concerns, but most of their advice still
requires that you are the verily suspicious and aware of
the ins and outs of technology, So you would still
have to have some level of I don't trust my
friend or spouse or whatever right, which a lot of
people don't necessarily have. Because when I was looking this up,
(16:34):
and I've considered myself pretty technologically savvy, I was like, wait,
this is terrifying, right.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
So, one NPR survey of eighty two domestic violence shelters
found that eighty five percent of them had to help
people with whose partners used GPS to.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Track their movements.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And by the way, we've also seen cases, murder cases,
quick kidnapping cases, any type of cases where detectives and
law enforcement actually used this as well. They tracked I
remember the one case they tracked a watch, a fitness
watch for a rape case, and there was a hole
back and forth about is this mating people's rights? Is
this constitutionally okay? Yeah, but just your and I have.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
One of these.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I have a fitness watch, but it definitely locates your
GPS and it also shows what you're doing sort of
kind of tailed by the monitoring, really creepy, but I
use it. And then seventy five percent dealt with partners
who spied on them with apps. And many of these
shelters have a digital detoc center. And if you've ever
seen a spy movie, you know you gotta get rid
(17:37):
of your phone. You go get it of your GPS. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
So a lot of these domestic violence shelters provide like
a what we would call like a brick phone, right, essentially,
all it does is call and that is it. So
this this NPR SETI also profiled an app called m
spy for about seventy dollars a month. This app instructs
you how to install it and then hide any trace
of it, even with a verified symbol next to it
(18:02):
making it look legit. It monitors text messages, call logs,
call recordings, pictures, videos, every website visited, every key type.
This allows people to figure out people's usernames and passwords.
It could be used to block phone numbers, further isolating
the victim, and location tracking all on top of that.
(18:23):
But one of the scariest things is the eavesdrop function.
When someone calls, whether you answer or not, the speaker
phone is activated and recording starts. So as someone who
gets like probably twenty spam calls a day, that would
be a lot a lot of eavesdropping that could happen
to me.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Right, So, most but not all states have laws against
cyber stocking, and it's recent and those that don't usually
they'll prosecute cyber stocking under harassment or stalking laws. There
isn't a federal law against cyber stocking, but there is
one that covers it. So so many loopholes. However, many
officials aren't fully up to date on the ways people
(19:04):
can be harassed and victimized using technology. We know this,
many of them don't even understand the technology. Many of
them don't believe this technology right, which makes this whole
thing super difficult. Many law enforcement officers don't have the resources.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Even though they get millions of dollars, they have lots
of weapons.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Just all that.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Some outlets have pointed out, the prosecution is frequently quite
lenient and they are even no matter what, and we've
seen them in way too many cases when it comes
to bullying. They don't even have that on record for
face to face bullying, so having it on internet text
doesn't worry, especially when you start talking about the First Amendment,
(19:44):
which is completely misinterpreted for this specifically.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, and there are so many case studies or examples
that were given in researching this, and I know we've
talked about them before, but where women would you know,
be like, I'm being cybersdoctor, this is what's happening to me,
And they would have to explain the technology, like they
would have to do this whole extra step.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And then kind of having yeah, this amused, like are
you sure this is a big response? Can't you just
delete it?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
And this doesn't include the victim blaming that is associated
with all of this. So immediately, if you will have
a sexy picture, your credibility goes out of the window.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, So the technology available and the level of data
collection that happens on the Internet just at large has
played into these high numbers of cyberstocking that are yes,
continuously going up. So on top of all the things
we've talked about with phone, there's also cyberstalking online and
that can involve similar things like tracking online in stelling,
(20:44):
tracking apps on someone's laptop, and also yeah, access to cameras,
sending unsolicited or threatening messages, overwhelming a target of cyberstocking's
chat channels with messages, starting online rumors, or sharing videos
or pictures edited or not without consent, like revenge porn, blackmailing,
setting up websites that host stories that may be true
(21:05):
are not about the person breaking into online accounts to
pose as a person and ruin their reputation, spywear, oh,
and even like hidden cameras in people's homes with some
audio capabilities.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Things like that.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All of this usually takes place over time, and it
is a very very scary experience that is yes, often dismissed.
Cyberstalking can result and negative outcomes like trouble sleeping, hyper vigilance, nightmares,
high levels of stress, trouble eating, feelings of loss of
control and safety, feelings of helplessness, fear and isolation, things
(21:40):
like that.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah, there's so many things.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So online dating has also played into this, which sucks
because a part of dating could be sending sexypects messages
or videos.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
I've never done that. Part of this is because I
worked in social work. I knew what was happening.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
But since at least ninety percent of the US is
fifty four million single people have tried online dating, there's
a lot for would be cyberstogglers to mine from. And
thinks to the fact we're constantly tied to our phones
as I am, computers and other technology. There are so
many avenues for us to be victimized and you can
turn things but depend on into sources of fear and harassment.
(22:19):
And yeah, when it's on, when they have one picture,
it doesn't even matter, it can be there for it's
there forever.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Like I remember having to show.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
A kid who had been sending pics of herself to
a boy, which I was like, this is a huge
say this canna come back bite if you're not careful.
And also the fact that you're sending a picture of
yourself can actually be considered child born other story, but
having to show her that I could go back and
pull it up for our she was kind of like, oh,
(22:47):
so definitely it doesn't disappear.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, and it is really really unfortunate because we're not
looking to fear amonger or anything, but right just something
you should should be aware of. And it sucks. It
does because you shouldn't have to.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Worry about that.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
If you're dating online and you do want to send
the sexy picture. It is extremely unfortunate that that is
something we have.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
To worry about.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And yeah, a lot of people, especially people who were
like got the flooded of channels or whatever, they would
just talk about how like every notification they'd get on
their phone would just send this fear fear through them.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And it is something we depend on.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is something that a lot of us use for
all kinds of fun things, so to have it turned
into that. So some experts break down cyberstalking into types.
One of the most common is emails cyberstocking. This can
involve trying to fix a relationship, start a relationship, threatening
or traumatizing it through unsolicited messages, sending viruses, or flooding
(23:51):
at someone's inbox. Then there's internet cyberstocking with the goal
of slandering are threatening the victim. This can involve breaking
into accounts, spoofing, sending pornographic images, and using spyware. Doxing
can fall under this too, posting private information, posing as
the victim and asking strangers for sexual activity, or building
(24:13):
entire websites, yes, with the intent of inviting strangers to
degrade and harass the victim. Victims have reported strangers showing
up at their door a place of work expecting sex.
In one case, over one thousand people showed up at
his home. But then there are computer cyberstalkers, stalkers who
control the victim's computer, which is.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Also terrifying.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Also terrifying, So we do have some advice, but first
we're going to pause for one more group brick for
a word term or sponsor.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
We're back, Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So, if you suspect or have confirmed you are the
target of cyberstocking, organizations have some steps and advice to take,
which is further complicated because a lot of it's online.
So again, if you haven't already looked this up. It
can be something frightening or perhaps not even possible in
your home devices. Here's what Marshall recommends. Trust your instincts
(25:24):
and exercise caution if you have an abuser who is
good with technology. So if you notice things like difficulty
churning off phone, or if it takes longer than normal,
an unexplained increase in your data bill, an increase in
battery changage, it could be a spyware app. Experts also
suggest checking to see if your phone is rooted or
jail broken. Backing up your phone is also a good idea.
(25:46):
All of this is with a caveat that a soccer
abuser may be able to see what you're doing, so
you have to take that into account and make sure
you're doing what is best for you and your particular
situation on this scurity questions. Don't answer with something guessable,
answer with something weird. I've been doing this for years.
Works for me as far as.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I know right. Have a safety plan in place.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Organizations like RAIN or the National Sexual Assault Hotline can
help with this, and some have quick clothes features for laptops.
I know there's been a lot of features that allow
for that and also features.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I could ask for help, but it looks like you're
talking to a friend.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
You can also seek out a safer computer at a
public place if you think yours might be compromised, and
this is an option for you.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, create new email accounts.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Look at the settings in your phone, stuff like security, GPS,
changing passwords and pin numbers.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
When I lost my phone that.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
It was like over several days, I kept thinking of
other things I had to change my password on, like
oh yeah, that one too.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Use a corded phone for a more private conversation. Again,
if this is something you have access to, baby monitors
can be listened in on as well.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Get a newer donated phone.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Some crisis centers, like we said, provide these if possible.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Learn more about policies of agencies and companies when it
comes to publishing online data. We talked about options like
delete me in a recent episode with Bridget that can
help you find and delete public information. Get a private
mailbox for communications. Do you want to keep private and
covering your webcam with as any does removable tape If
(27:25):
yours doesn't have the feature that allows you to just
shut it off.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Just slide it on over.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, they also recommended things like using a gender neutral password,
never giving out your password. So I know a lot
of us are guilty of never giving out personal information
to a site or online entity you don't trust. And
if you have children, instruct them on these security measures too.
Don't respond to an email from an unknown person. Regularly
search your name to see what it comes up. That
(27:51):
takes a lot of courage, I know. But on top
of that, most organizations suggest keeping an incident log of
any communications with the cyberstalker. And yes, having these conversations
with children so they know how to stay safe online,
and something else that could help that. We talked about
a lot more data right now. The situation is seriously
(28:13):
understudied and misunderstood. Like as I was saying, as we
were going through this, I saw conflicting things all over the.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
First Yeah, I mean, when it comes to anonymity and
the Internet, it gives a lot of free access and
stuff like swatting. That's a whole different level when you
come to like twitch and all those things. And yeah,
that's the other part is there's more and more technology,
things like Amazon on their Alexa do in the sidewalk
feature but that immediate was like nope, because it shows
(28:42):
it for some reason, wants.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
You to share with the pay strangers, and I feel like, hey, Amazon,
that's dumb.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Dumb. Also things like Google, who have been accused repeatedly
of data mining, as well as having companies that.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Are all the time act Yeah, all the.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Credit card companies, all the credit overseeing companies, like they
get all that information and identities being sold because they
have features like that. We're not even talking about that
as part of the cyberstocking because yeah, that's easily accessible.
We've known for a long time. If you go to
white Pages and you want to pay some money, you
can get complete access to home phone number address.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
You just have to pay ten dollars a subscription.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, which is really really absurd and quite quite alarming
as in fact, so that doesn't even include any of that.
We're talking more about the personal level. But when it
comes to and we've talked about this with bridget corporate
responsibility and no one really really actually dealing with that,
that's a whole different conversation.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
It is.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
It's another one of those things where so much of
the advice for giving in this is basically putting the
impetus on you and the responsibility on you to be
vigilant when you shouldn't have to be so concerned that
a company that you use got hacked right now, right, and.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, we shouldn't have to pay extra money for buying
a service that should have been already included in the
service that we're paying for right right.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Just we'll salt you just a little.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Listeners, As always, we would love to hear from you.
You can email us that Stephania mom Steff at iheartmia
dot com. You can find us on Instagram at steff
I Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You. The
production of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from iHeartRadio. It
is a the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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