SMNTY Classics: Indigenous Women You Need to Know

In this classic episode, Natalie Evans of the Some Kind of Brown Podcast discusses some of America's most badass indigenous women. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Danny and Samantha and welcome to stuff.
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. And today,
as we record this, it is November a second, which
is election day here, I guess everywhere, but I mean

(00:27):
I know here in Tortia, right we have a mayoral
race happening in Atlanta right now. Yes, yes, so we
will see you at the results of that is how's
your how's your perception of time lately? How is it
that it's November? Yeah, I thought of that. I was like, wait,
is it too late for me to order on Etsy
for all of the gifts because I'm starting to get scared. Yes, yeah,

(00:50):
I have ordered most of my Christmas presence already, And
I guess I don't want to stress anyone out because
I know it's very stressful normally, but now it's especially
Chessil because we've been to old It's gonna be all
kind of supply issues and mailing issues. Um, So my
mom and I were like, we gotta get this, We
gotta get on top of this, you gotta get it done.
So I just had this huge mountain of gifts like

(01:12):
sitting in front of my doorway. Well, it's gonna be
y around until December. But all right, yeah, it's it's strange.
I feel like it's both like the weather is cooler,
so that's there, but it's just kind of being inside
all the time makes it very strange when you're like, oh, yeah,
that's November, all right, Okay. November is also American Indian

(01:37):
Heritage Month, um, and we are going to have some
content around that throughout this month. But for our classic,
we wanted to bring back an episode we did with
a lovely guest, Natalie Evans of These Some kind of
Brown Podcast when she came to us and brought examples
of indigenous women's one of her favorite indigenous women that
people should know about. So please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

(02:07):
this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to STUFFMO never
told you. Protection of I Heart Radio's house effort. We
have something pretty pretty special a little different today. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As you know, we've been trying to shout out listeners

(02:30):
and other people we think are doing cool things at
the end of episodes and podcasts, pasting podcast which Samantha
has been spearheading, um and we that kind of came
simultaneously with another topic we want to talk about and
a podcast that we shouted out because as we record this,

(02:52):
not as you hear it in classic Sminty fashion of course, Um,
it is a Native American heritage MUK November. I thought
it a little closer one time frame now than we
haven't before. Yeah, we're closing in, although a little better now.
I think it's just our thing. Maybe maybe we should
just stick with it. Um. But this is so confusing

(03:13):
because we have the episode we're talking about asn't published it,
but you should have heard it by now. Somebody we
shouted out, UM has an amazing podcast, some kind of
Brown podcast. Yes, Natalie Evans is doing a fantastic job
with Some kind of Brown. She's been on I think
a year and a half. So what she said, it's
a podcast about multi racial, biracial and many multicultural ideas

(03:34):
behind and what it's like to be in that life
or in that moment. However, she identifies as Indigenous Black
UM and she is very, very obviously passionate about indigenous
and Native UM people and wanted to have their stories told,
which is I think it is very important as well.
And of course I mentioned a couple of times because

(03:55):
you know, I don't hear it often, but she does
include in a racial adoption as a part of our
conversation too, and I loved that because, and I think
I've talked about it is often I feel really confused
about my identity a lot of the times because my
identity is conflicting to what I grew up with with
who I am, my actual ethnicity. And so what she's
doing is just fantastic. And also she's looking into the

(04:16):
LGBTQ plus world and being inclusive, and I love all
of the things. And I feel like it's very much
in the spirit of smenting and what we want to
do and what we want to talk about. And Yeah,
so when we saw her podcast, and I was very
excited about she was doing um Red November, which was
highlighting the hashtag m M i W or the missing

(04:38):
and murdered Indigenous women and talking about those conversations and
trying to bring a lot more highlights than I know
you did an episode as well. So it just split
in a line perfectly that we try to connect and
she was so willing and so we were so excited
to have her on the show. Yeah, and one of
the things we asked of her would be was to

(05:02):
talk about some some women famous, well maybe not famous,
but they should be famous indigenous women, um, that we
we all should know more about. And she was great adalyst,
Like how many I could go on and on, um.
But we do want to say before we get into this,
just a general disclaimer, and we do mention this in
the interview, but history is tricky when it comes to

(05:27):
I mean just in general honestly, UM, but also when
it comes to colonization in the United States, sources can
be hard to come by. And also UM, pronunciations, Uh yeah,
because there's no source like today peek behind the scenes.
What I do. I go to a pronunciation website. If

(05:49):
it's not on there, then I go to YouTube and
try to find somebody saying whatever it is that doesn't
necessarily exist for for the women, um that we're going
to talk about, so trying our best. Feel free to
write is if you know, Yeah, I feel free to
write in and let us let us know that us

(06:09):
give us a gentle correction. Um. But yeah, let's let's
hop into the interview. Ah. My name is Natalie Evans
and I'm the host of some kind of brown podcast.
My podcast is mostly about mixed in my multi racial life,

(06:30):
cultural issues and current events that are going on, and
exploring what it really means to my multicultural For multi
racial sometimes bi racial ethnic background isn't what that really means.
So we cover everything from reconnecting the culture to accepting

(06:51):
some of the negatives or how to deal with things
like you know, the normal things like people putting their
hands in your hair and having boundaries. There's a lot
of things that kind of fall under under that umbrella.
But for me specifically, I am reconnecting with my native

(07:11):
Indigenous side, so I get to document that through the podcast,
and it led to my Red November projects, which I
think is probably found me and what we're talking about today, right,
And could you explain a little bit about your Red
November project, because yes, that is one of the things
I was like, Oh, this is awesome. Uh, The November

(07:33):
is an absolute passion project for me. It's something that
I wanted to do that they started. I said that, like,
I've had a podcast for a long time. I had
it for a year and a half. But it is
a series that focuses on the m m I w
or Missing a Murdered Indigenous Women girls two spirit people movements,

(07:55):
and it kind of approaches this systemic problems, the angle
of different Native non binary and women in our different perspectives.
I've talked to people from all different walks of life
and how it affects us and some of the problems
when we're looking at the end my w movement went

(08:16):
so necessary, and the fact that we can't find any
information on the women who are missing, and the fact
that we very very rarely do any of these cases
or women get any kind of publicity. It's something that's
very painful and something that is slowly coming to light.
And then really excited to see that people are listening

(08:52):
and we have you on here today because I would
say the work that you do is fantastic and important
and we wanted you to kind of have a platform
here with us to talk to us about these different fights.
I guess that is what the best way we can
put it. UM and movements that you guys are you
were specifically pushing through and trying to get noticed for,
which is awesome. In your own podcasts which try to

(09:14):
highlight UM the different cultures as well as the difficulties
and the issues of being multiracial, biracial all of those things,
and you had even included um, interational adoption, which applies
to me. You know, it's very excited to see that,
which we highlighted your podcast on. Well episode that's coming
that we haven't published yet but has already recorded. There

(09:38):
doesn't exist publicly. I didn't acknowledge it's happening. Um, So
today I asked you to come on because it is
uh Native American Heritage Month. Yes, as we record that,
as we're recording, because yeah, by the time this is
published is over, we're a little late. But to talk
about it always good to talk about, Yes, as we should. Um.

(10:00):
And so you came on and you actually sent us
a giant list, which I love the things that you
want to talk about, people you want to talk about.
So let's go ahead and started, Yeah, okay, all right.
You told me that originally you were thinking about talking
about historical Native figures, particularly women or two spirit people.
And do you say massive lists, But this is just

(10:23):
a tiny, tiny, little list of amazing women that you
can look into. In a lot of Native Native cultures,
women are kind of the bear bearers of tradition. A
lot of these women who stand out in history were
also warriors. Most of the tribes are not cillennial, which

(10:45):
means that plans and traditions have passed down from the mother.
It's something that was very women were very equal or
sometimes a little higher in certain tribes. But as colonization
and the boarding schools and residential schools tried to westernize

(11:07):
the culture, that's one of the things that kind of
leaked in but is being worked on now. The codine
is showny Confederacy or the Iroquois Confederacy. They are probably
one of the most matrimonial groups that I've heard of

(11:29):
as a group of nations. They just have more female
led traditions. What was what are some of those traditions.
One of them, like I said, is clans passed down
from the mother. So if your mother was born in
one plan and the fathers and another, the mother's plans

(11:51):
kind of like last names with different They also have
a lot of medicine as a lot of women who
are famous for being medicine woman. So those are two
of the biggest things. Women as leaders and warriors and mothers.
That's just a very revered position in Native culture. So yeah,

(12:15):
let's go ahead and talk about some of these women.
You're right, it's not a very vast last list. It
should be way way way more. There are obviously way
way way more. But for her time and purposes, let's
start with some of the big figures and names that
you want to talk about. Okay, we have Piprina Buffalo
calf road woman. That's her name, Elizabeth want to make her.

(12:39):
Of course I can't pronounce the for a Trovich. The
Polish sounding name was all the things I could not
find the plantation of her thinking names, so unfortunately can't
say that one as Tish Callista and Madonna stutter Hawk.
They're all from different groups, and actually two of them

(13:05):
on opposite side, which is kind of interesting. But toy
Parina is the first person on my list, and she
is of the tongue of the tribe located in the
Los Angeles basin. And there's a little bit of controversy
over what the tribe is called, because once they're not
nationally recognized, and two the government called the tribe something else.

(13:34):
It's been very interesting. Colonization is the problem for records.
But she was a medicine woman who opposed Spanish rule.
When she was nine, the Spanish colonizers invaded it is colonized.
There's two strong words. I don't know, okay, uh, I

(13:57):
don't like to call it. There's a group of people
who are using colonizers to talk about current people, and
I think that's a little too harsh of a narrative.
We're trying to talk about inclusivity and awareness and education,
but these are actual colonizers, little colonizers. Good, Okay. They

(14:19):
made it their goal, of course, to convert the people
and erase their cultural practice is I'm sure at the
like four pages and everyone's history books makes it clear
why the pornies of Americans needed to learn the Western
way and any attempts through this assimilation or conversion resulted

(14:39):
in our speeding torture and they see them be killed.
Things reached they're breaking point when traditional dances were banned
and to a point and helped unite six villagers to
attack the Stand Gabriel mission. Even though their attacks failed,
toy Prina was seen as a witch. She was just
dead and the end she was baptized and exile. I

(15:02):
can only imagine against her will. But she is still
a figure of bravery and leadership and very celebrated. You
know that there's a play based on her. According to
the research I found, there is a play about her life, um,
and that was not surprising. Yeah, premiered at the San

(15:23):
Gabriel Mission Playhouse in and towards California in um. And
also apparently there's a short film about her life and
a book called Zoro has an homage to her by
Isabelle Allende Allende. Yes, yeah, so, um she's not someone

(15:48):
Unfortunately I had never heard of her both, right, I
haven't either, But I like that there's increasing awareness about
about her and that there's this art being made about her.
I have seen a lot of artworks that are that
have been made in that I think. Unfortunately, unless you're

(16:09):
looking for her, mostly the people in Los Angeles, based
in an urn that area no occur. And that's about it. Um,
which is the case sometimes. But I don't know all
of these women. Their stories are like bit their steet.
You read about them. On the one hand, you feel

(16:31):
a bunch of pride from reading about their strengths and
the things that they were able to do. But at
the same time, we kind of know how this story goes. Yeah,
and it's much been a romanticize The truth of the
matter is it's pretty horrifying, the narrative in it. All right,

(16:51):
So the next woman you had on your list with
Buffalo calf Road Woman, which is an intense name, and
that is their only name? Uh it is? There is
a her name in Northern Cheyenne. I can't I couldn't
find how to pronounce it. But she is of the
Northern Cheyenne tribe. And if you've heard of the battle

(17:14):
a little big born, hm, I don't know, but um
me a differing in the mispool. So I'm fancy, super fancy,
super fancy. Uh. But yeah, you should have heard about
Balo cast broad Woman. If you don't know by name,

(17:36):
you probably have heard of Lieutenant Canal Fluster Yep. Yeah,
I don't really. Yeah, so even if you're on the bottle,
you know him. And she was the one who knocked
him off of his course before he died. Wow. I
shouldn't be proud of that, but I kind of am.
Come on now that I should celebrate anyone's death. Well,

(18:02):
this is not actually her first place prowess as a lawyer.
She also fought in the Battle of the Rosebud, and
the Cheyenne called this battle the Battle with the Woman
saved her brother, I believe because they were losing and
her brother, the chief comes in Sight, was injured and

(18:24):
she's turned her horse around. Gallops both felt the deep
of the fighting and saved her brother. The Laquota and Cheyenne,
who are fighting together joined forces under Crazy Horse, were
inspired by her bravery and turned around and won the
Battle of a Little Big Horn. She also fought alongside

(18:46):
her husband's black Coyote, and after the battle, she and
her family were captured, unfortunately and relocated. But like, she's
another woman who's fighting spirit is an inspiration for some
of us Native women and people in general. She it's
such a boss. She went through all these things, she

(19:08):
fought in these battles. It she proved her prowess to
the warrior and her husband Ryle. In jail, she died
from diphtheria or malaria, We're not sure which. Like, after
everything she's been through, that's going to take her down, really,
But I mean this kind of sounds about right as
you come through that type of colonization and and the

(19:31):
diseases that was brought by those types of people, um
that had actually killed a many of tribes and many
of indigenous people. At that point in time. And it
is sad, but you know, she couldn't be taken down
our out of a force of nature. I guess it's sad.
But also if you look at it, no, no person
put down exactly. She was too strong for people to

(19:53):
put it strong for the individual. Man, I'm just saying
it couldn't be done by man. So other happens deep,
Oh my god, totally totally unrelated. But my brain immediately
went to Lord of the Rings. Yeah, see, okay, we
like that reference. Go ahead, go ahead with a reference

(20:17):
because one of the leaders of the Black Writers couldn't
be killed be killed by a man and was killed
by a woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the way. I'm
no man, okay, so good, it was good. Don't get

(20:39):
us off track myself like that. We love we loves
and classics. Lord of the Rings, come on. So going on.
So it's Elizabeth Wanna Maker, Peretrovic. I literally looked up
more of the native print stations of their names, so
I did on that one. So we'll just say Paratrovic,

(21:02):
this is not fair. I don't know. I preferred to
call people by their indigence. Her native names understandable, understandable.
She is part of the Linkett tribe, and someone can
at me and if I don't pronounced them that wrong
because it felt completely differently. But they're in Alaska. She

(21:28):
was adopted at a young age. And one of the
reasons why I really wanted to use her name her
original Pinkett name, is because she only got the name
Elizabeth want to make her after she was adopted, which
kind of makes my heart out of that whole eraser thing.
And she gained that wonderful is it polish? I have

(21:52):
no idea last name from her husband's roy but they
were both Native, and they became the ends president of
the Alaska Native Brotherhood and Sisterhood, and they eventually moved
to Juno, and we're confronted by the no Natives allowed
buying all over the place. There's some siens say no

(22:14):
dogs and no natives, like excuse me, so frustrating. But
Elizabeth's probus and was determined to bring change. So she
directed and presented the Anti Discrimination Act, and it was
the first shot down and she in that teen three,

(22:36):
I believe, and she reads to put it before or
the Senate in nineteen and just to kind of paint
a picture of what she was like, I kind of
has to say a quote from someone who's not very nice,
so to give you a picture of the kind of

(22:56):
discrimination that needs faced in Alaska. Senator for then, Senator
Alan sat felt comfortable enough to say, and a cluach,
far from being brought close together which will result from
this act, the racist should be kept further apart. He said,
who are these people, barely out of savagery who want

(23:18):
to associate with us white? Was five thousand years of
recorded civilization behind us? Oh my god. Her response to
that was was kind of amazing to sender Allen, She said,
I would not have expected that I, who am barely

(23:38):
out of savagery, wouldn't have to remind gentlemen, was five
thousand years of recorded civilization behind them? Of our bill
of rights? Yeah? Yeah, she testified last in defense of
the act, and whatever she said she was able to

(24:00):
move the entire assembly. Some people said that there was
cheers everywhere and seraing ovation and her work resulted in
Alaska being the very first date to pass INTI discrimination legislation,
but did pass in that's amazing, that is amazing. Yeah,
we have some more women we want to talk about listeners.

(24:23):
But first we have a quick break for a word
from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. Let's
get into the interview to put that into perspective. We

(24:44):
didn't really have remember joining from themself Arkansas specifically, we
had segregation filled the seventies, so this this act was
very ahead of it time. Oh yeah, it looked like
and Annie had put in here that it would have
been nearly twenty years before the federal civil rights side

(25:05):
would be passed, as well as fourteen years before Alaska
would become a state, which is phenomenal timing that she
was able to push that hard and get that accomplished. Yeah,
she obviously had some kind of gift of word speech
because she was able to move people who were so

(25:26):
set in their ways of thinking of progress or ways
of looking at Native people that they would pass this
after it had ben't failed. So I don't know what
kind of magical words she used, but we need to
imagine right now, Yes, for a few reasons. For a

(25:47):
few reasons. Uh yeah, and I read that the United
States meant will have a one dollar coin featuring her, So,
oh I didn't hear. That's exciting that was very exciting.
Looks like her son Um sculpted a bronze bust in
honor of her that was in the state Lobby of

(26:09):
Alaska as well. So she's a significant portion to the
history of Alaska, which is beautiful. Yeah did you see
the um we can do it? What was that that
war time derivat. Yeah, she's They have one for her too,

(26:29):
and I like that one a lot. Oh, yeah, that's awesome.
That is awesome, titch By saying that right, I could
not find a pronunciation for her name, unfortunately, so somebody
can correctus. I'm sure somebody will will hit me up

(26:54):
on Twitter. I'm sorry. Go ahead, So Tish for all
the point, for the point I'm going forward. Who is
who are they? Well? Uh, as we were talking about polonization, metrorosities,
desper kind of hard story. But as Tish was one

(27:16):
of the last batte or two spirit leaders, and I
think when I was talking to you, I mentioned transgender,
but to spirit isn't directly correlated to transgender. It's the
closest English term that we have for it, but that's
not exactly what it was. In Almost all Native cultures

(27:38):
had to spirit people. But you weren't just a different
gender than the one you were assigned at birth. I
say that because that's the term most accepted right now,
but often Tinans gender wasn't really design in Native communities.
But you are something more if you were to spirit

(28:01):
mm hmm, it's uh. It was really a third gender,
was beyond the gender binary. And they were also given
positions of leadership, and we're highly respected members of their communities.
Tish was the head of the Botte, the two spirit
leaders in her time. So we mentioned the Battle of

(28:25):
the road side with Buffalo cast road Woman. She actually
fought on the side. Yeah, So that bottle was between
the Cheyenne and Lakotas due on one side with Crazy
Horse and Buffalo cast road Woman, and on the other

(28:45):
side was the crow Into Shawne people. So it was
a little a little weird to kind of read the
different perspectives in telling their stories, because on the one hand,
you have all this bravery from the full cast road
Woman in celebrating her for being able to turn the
battle around, and then when you're talking about Ostreet, they

(29:06):
talked about her prowess and bravery even though they lost.
So it's very interesting and as usual, it'sbout land. And
there was a graphic I saw the other day about
how just from seventeen seventy six you can see the

(29:31):
number of Native Americans and where they were allowed to
be just dwindle across the state. And it forced not
only needed people to fight against the colonizers but also
against each other because their lands are being taken away.
But again they actish, and the crow and showny lost

(29:57):
and eventually the crew were confined to a reservation. Unfortunately,
at the time there were a lot of missionaries and
government agents that kind of ran the reservations. That's not
so much the case anymore now sovereign nations have their
own government, which is another story at the time, but

(30:21):
people did not accept two spirit people. It is outside
their sensibilities. The nicest way I just stay it. Yeah,
So just like in the boarding schools, in the residential schools,
hair was cut off. Two spirit people were forced to

(30:42):
wear men's clothes and do quote unquote men's work. And
in the face of that, Astos wore or neat dresses
with pride and when afric kind of work she did,
she always did, she did women's work. She was one
of the last two spirit people across all native cultures
two be alive. It was effectively wiped out for the

(31:07):
most part, between boarding schools and residential schools and just
people dying off. And unfortunately a lot of two spirit
people walked on before their turing. I think cans maders.
It's it's really hard to talk about these kinds of
situations because it's easy to get really emotional and go off,

(31:32):
but that's what you know, it's not gonna bring anyone
back to life, and it's it's just really tough to
read about these situations. You just have all this anger
that has nowhere to go on. I mean, obviously you're
somewhere to go here, because it's true. It is infuriating
to see that as a culture, what that was accepted

(31:55):
then was taken away from them because of a bigotry
idea of what is normal, which of course again we're
having to come back to and have conversations about, and
we're nowhere near progressing, especially when it comes to um
as you say, the too gendered as transgender as we
know it, or that's the best way we can um say,
identify with it. I guess that is still such a

(32:16):
fight to understand bigger than the scope of gender and
being gendered in general. Yeah, And the really hard thing
is that even though there are a lot of moves
to revitalize cultural practices, a lot of the information is
a lot the boy passed down, the two spirit leaders

(32:40):
passed down a lot of information amongst themselves. And if
they're all gone and nothing's written, what's they're for us
to revitalize? Mm hmm. So we have people who are
too spirit and those things that are kind of becoming
more acceptable again. But what's missing is the medicine the

(33:03):
leadership did, tradition that came along with it. So, like
other things that Native people are trying to revitalize, we
can only kind of look at things as a guide
and then do what we can with it in our
in the scope of our modern culture. So this is

(33:25):
one of those lessons that we have to learn and
look back and make sure that history doesn't repeat itself
raising a culture or an idea or people's in general,
which is infuriating and heartbreaking in all the same ways
in different ways, I guess, says, but I did read.

(33:46):
So we are reading that the Crow tribe did stand
behind her um when she refused to conform to the
European roles that they were trying to place on them. Oh,
they absolutely before the supported her that she was a
leader and they had already seen what she could do.
She more than earned her position. Unfortunately, later in her

(34:11):
life she faced some kickbacks when were talking about the
the residential schools and boarding schools. They were there's really
no nice way to say. They were horrific. People were
brainwashed and tortured, and one of the things that they
did effectively was take a whole generation of meat is

(34:35):
people and make them feel inadequate or that their practices
were outdated. And that's still something we're struggling with this day,
because there's a generational gap between knowledge. So you have
that the last generation to fight, and then the generations

(34:56):
that lived and grew up through the boarding school system,
and then our generation who's trying to revitalize the tradition.
And so that a lot of people I've heard them
talk about there trying to talk to their grandmothers about
certain practices and they're very resident We don't do that anymore.

(35:20):
Not all people who went to the residential schools and
boy schools are like that. Right under that kind of
psychological torture. I can't say anything about the people who
kind of changed or assimilated, because that's just a survival skill.
You have to if you're going to die or be tortured,

(35:42):
you have to assimilate, right, And that's that is exactly
what colonization was to bring this shame factor. If there's
only one culture that is correct, and it is whatever
the strongest or the most most forceful culture at that
point in time, which is absolutely kind of this whole
whitewashing of history for so many cultures in general, and
I mean whitewashing, and it is it is a horrific

(36:05):
thing that it brings on a shame factor for those
who have a different take or different understanding and different
culture on different background, which is, yeah, you're right, this
is unfortunate, and it's it's it's interesting to take that here,
that perspective from you about how your generation is coming
in trying to relearn, but you are battling with the

(36:27):
still shame factor from the past generations that they were
taught or they were tortured, or they're forced on to them,
which is yeah, I've never actually thought about that in
the bigger picture, it's it's very it's something that you
don't seem normally, especially if you're not connected to a
native community. So some of my friends are in Nupia

(36:48):
in Alaska and they have the traditional tin tattoo, and
there are some women in the community who are older
who see it as a bad thing because that's something
they left behind. They evolved past that now, but more
and more women are getting those traditional tattoos, and I

(37:09):
think it's absolutely beautiful that they're able to because it
really came from I think one book or one reported
book about tattooing and how they did it and what
the different clans and people have different patterns, and I
guess that they're just kind of building it up from there, right,

(37:34):
And what you're doing with bringing it forward and talking
about the history is also very very important so we
can see and recognize the tragedy that happens when you
oppress a culture in the society and the history that
is lost on that as well. A good job, Natalie,
I think, I mean, honestly, I am absolutely not an

(37:57):
expert in any of these cultures, in any of these
specific types. They're not mine. And went on this list
first of all, and second of all, I am nick
even if I am significantly indigenous, but I had to

(38:17):
I'm having to reconnect later in life anyway. And it's
only because I have two people who grew up within
the culture and made actual steps to educate myself that
I can even speak on it right, right, But I
think of what's and yes, there are definitely a lot
of experts out there, but coming out and having conversations

(38:41):
and and making sure people still know or at least
understand the bigger history is phenomenal in itself. And also, yes,
you definitely have a drive which is beautiful to make sure, honestly,
if anyone this knowledge, this information is available to everyone, right,
which should be we should have more stuff on this.

(39:03):
Moving on to the next person, And I'm not sure
I'm gonna be able to say this name. I'm pretty
sure again I am Idea. But she is are you?
Are you? But she was an advocate for the people
and also an author. She was one of the first,
well I think she was the first published Native American woman,

(39:25):
and she published a book called Life among the Pies,
Their Wrongs and Claims in next eighteen eighty three. She
witnessed a lot of atrocities and violence against the people
and always spoke out against her treatment. And when I
say she spoke out, she gave us over three hundred

(39:47):
speeches on the true the maltreatment of Native people. She
lived through the Banic War of eighteen seventy eight and
rescued a group of page people, including her father, and
continue to speak out even after she and a group

(40:09):
of pay were forcibly located to the Yakima Reservation until
her death took me. Tona fought for land rights and
human rights of Native people. It might not be a
surprise too for people, as she came from a line
of leaders as a daughter of the chief and the
granddaughter of Chi's truck Ee. Unfortunately, there's not too too

(40:33):
much information I could find on her beyond that, but
we still have her writings. Her book is still available,
so that's us. And for sure I know that the
Plight people talk about her a lot in there in Nevada.

(40:53):
Three speeches. It's impressive, it's impressive speaking you're like it
as an Indigenous female. What that takes a lot of courage.
Here's so wanted to speak out in our community. It

(41:13):
is not an abnormal thing. But when you're facing culture
that is kind of the opposite, especially in the eighteen hundreds.
I'm sure it was very odd to look at probbing
all this freedom and respect is a Native woman and

(41:34):
then seeing the culture that you were trying to be
forced into. Yeah, m hm, I can only imagine. I
want to beat her book. Yeah, really need to find
that book next moment. But yeah, or less that, we
haven't started. I have a list you have, I know
you have, I know you have. And then we wanted

(41:57):
to talk about Madonna thunder Hawk. There's one before that,
which is okay, I'm really excited. Is it to Losta
or Red Good was a young named town Youngstown, Dakotas too,
and she's another writer, but she's also a musician and activists.

(42:20):
Her books were written among the first to spread traditional
Native stories and she wrote. She even wrote part of
the first Native American opera, called the Sun Dance Opera
in nineteen thirteen. While her writings of her experiences with
boarding school applying fan stories are probably enough to make
her historical figure National and the National Council for American

(42:46):
Indians and nineteen twenty six, and this enabled her to
lobby for Native rights to the United States Citizenship and
civil Rights. She served as president until her death. In
so we have another strong woman in leadership, not just

(43:09):
in the tribe but outside of it. Is well, so
that there's another another I don't know the operas are
put into a book, but I'm sure she wrote another
books that you can add your boys. I think she
she was pretty prolific um as she wrote and uh

(43:31):
from recording for what I found the Atlantic Monthly and
Harper's Monthly. Um so, yeah, that's I think some of
her works are out there. People should definitely go check
them out. Yeah. The College Hall is also just a
beautiful horror and she is another image of Indigenous Native

(43:55):
strength and perseverance. I don't know. I want, like you know,
as a kid, you have all those posts of bands
and stuff on your walls, right, I kind of want
to saw these women on my be awesome. I can
put it on your phone now as a motivation. Now
there you go, not on not on the walls anymore,
is on your phone because you open it up. My

(44:17):
room is still covered in posters. I don't know what
you're saying. Your house is covered in posters? Never mind,
I haven't I haven't graduated from I do too. I
do too. You put on the ceiling too, so you
wake up in the is all these amazing women. Yeah,

(44:38):
that'd be better than what I have. But I still
do in your ceiling, that guy, I mean, eventually you
just ran into space and you have to put stuff
on the feelings. Never I've never been there, but okay,
that's my entire life. But I like this idea much better.
Is more than like Harry Potter and Star Wars, perhaps

(45:02):
more motive nor realistic. You are. Actually, this is probably
better than what she's got. So keep geping another ideas.
It would be more work appropriate. At least I could
be like, well, these are the people to better myself
by looking at these motivational warriors. Yeah, oh my goodness. Alright, next,

(45:28):
well we can get over more ideas. Now we're down
to Yes, Madonna Thunderhawk, all right, tell us about her.
She's the last first normalist and of every monmalist, she's
actually still alive. I said that ignored that part. Being

(45:51):
alive would be alive as congratulations, not that being dead
as that, you know whatever, through a lot of crazy things.
So she is Cheyenne River, Sue and some Sausta coat
and she's still in South Dakota, so she's not only alive,

(46:14):
still alive that organized the protest against the Dakota Pipeline
in two thousand and sixteen, and she was like wow,
and she organized that. She's seventy eight and she doesn't
look it by the pictures I've seen, and I have
no doubt she's one thousand percent a woman to be

(46:36):
reckoned with. When I read through everything she's seen and
taken part in, I just cannot imagine what it's like
to have lived through all these things and still have
all the fire that she still what. She was part

(46:58):
of the Red Power movement, which I didn't even know
where the thing that makes sense it was the sixties
and seventies. So Yu's black power. I just read power
goes right along with it. Her first foray, as far
as I could, Yeah, as far as I found was

(47:18):
protesting during the nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy one
occupation of Outfit Dras. I had to ever heard of this,
but apparently there was a treaty between the government and
the Dakota people that called the Treaty of Fort Laramie
that said all retired, abandoned or out of used federal

(47:39):
land which to be returned to the Lakota who wants
to occupied it, and so they moved there from nineteen
nine seventy one. And also not surprised that the protest
wasn't successful. The United States is not really known for
giving the land that It's blows my mind that she

(48:01):
also went through this as well. Wounded me is I
don't know if I want to call it soul crushing.
It's one of those moments that a lot and if
he's bread there in my heart, it wounded me, you
might know why so bad. But I highly recommend everyone
read it. I think it should be required reading in

(48:24):
high school personally, but um, I don't know if our
government in this current climate is ready for me to
put that in school. Uh. But even after that, like
I said, this woman has so much stamina and so
much perseverance. I don't even I just can't. She served

(48:49):
as a director of the Wounded Me Legal Defense Offense
Commity in December of Right Team seventy five. She also
founded the Warrior Woman's Projects and just kind of so
many more organizations and movements to fight for news American people.
And right, and she's still doing this work. That's awesome.

(49:13):
I mean another another person to look to, to to respected,
to be inspired by. So I would cry at that
de mean her the ultimate goal to meet her. Yeah,
obviously she's still because the pipeline issue hasn't been resolved

(49:34):
other than no one's acknowledging it. To my knowledge, I
think that the code of pipeline is active, but we
don't know that. There have been like oil spills and
all sorts of problems the pipeline is going through Native
land are legal, may violate several treaties, but to fight

(49:57):
and over things Native voices have not had the impact
that they should have had, not right their own fault,
but by our government and the news medium how things
are covered with a lot of mothering and not a
lot of compassions towards news people right as um Um

(50:19):
was looking like. I know some of the Democrats who
are running for president have used it as a platform,
not not their platform, as a promise to shut it
down or to reverse some of it. So it's still
a big issue, but not big enough that they're talking
about it on debates right now, which is sad and
obviously really really um, I don't know what else other

(50:41):
than yeah, it's just about right. It's not as important
to some people, um as it should be, as it
should be about the lines that are affecting, but it's
absolutely something that's still having to be fought for. And
obviously we know, as you just said, she's been fighting
for um Kinomet has continued to be a big voice
and pushing that as a as a conversation that we

(51:04):
need to have more of. Yeah, and she has seen
some real, real bloodshed. Part of my the November project
is talking about violent language that's still used in the
media that inspires violence in real life. And her to

(51:26):
see some of the most horrific moments in American history
or modern whatever this period of American history is and
still be fighting really is indicative of so much strength.
I don't know. That's something really common when you hear

(51:47):
these stories, especially need of women. They see these awful things,
they see this genocide, and then in the face of genocide,
women are standing up and be being out. And that's
why it's so important to one read about your American history,

(52:07):
take part in as much as you can to talk
about some of those things, and actually listen when Americans
talk about issues they are facing ones. It's just a lot, right.
We do have a little bit more for you listeners,
but first we have one more quick break forward from

(52:28):
our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So you
had mentioned earlier that there's obviously and we can all
definitely research, but what would you point out someone that

(52:51):
wants to learn more of the histories and the behind
the scenes. Where would you point them? Is there something
like reference books or it's that two old days referenced
books resources? Thank you books. I'm not old, I'm not
come out against books are used to encyclopedia from most
of middle school. Okay, so I mean and when I

(53:12):
say encyclopedia, I mean hard bound Britannica cyclopaediasms. So don't
date me. But resources that you would point them to.
Oh so I would recommend if you really want to
know what Native history is like and why all of

(53:37):
us are so passionate about it, I think diving in
head first is the best way to do it because
we are living this reality and is it shocking to you?
Imagine what it's like for us to see all your
reasure that are people have faced and it can see

(54:00):
neewing now, so a good place to start to really
get a handle on how much effort has been put
into eliminating Native people bury in my heart, it wounded
me is the books. That's probably the the best place
to start there. There's a narrative that I've heard of

(54:25):
Native American spot against each other. So it's not a
big deal that the United States also the colonial people
also bought them. But it is completely different. We're talking
about the make genocide as opposed to what kind of

(54:46):
amounts to land suffle. And I will warn you that
there are some things in the Wounded there my brother Wondanida,
are graphic, but it's absolutely necessary to hear those things.
And usually again history like this, atrocities like this, and again,

(55:09):
as you said, genocide, it's going to be graphics. So
to expect less would be you look at a really
unrealistic version of history. Right. It would be like learning
about the Holocaust without learning about anything that has to
get concentration camp, right, which is absurd in itself. Well,
thank you so much, Natalie. I'm so glad that we

(55:31):
got to connect and that you were able to speak
with us. Is there anything else that you want to
add or you want to voice about what we're talking about.
I okay, one thing, I I kind of challenge my
listeners to do this. If you are not connected to

(55:52):
a needive community or any funds who are needed, I
encourage you too. On Instagram, watch Twitter, follow by indigenous
people and just as you're looking to your feet and
as you're learning and hearing from these people, I guarantee
you it won't take very long for you to realize

(56:13):
that there are some things going on you might not
be aware of. And I think that's kind of applies
to all ethnic groups. It's a good idea to know
what's happening and be aware and get out of our
little bubbles. But it's very important, I think to make
sure you are paying attention to Native voices, especially being

(56:36):
on the land of people who are still here. Now,
that's amazing. I love that. That's a great challenge and
I think absolutely I would voice that and agree with
you that is to start to start with and do that.
Um And now where can we find you on the interwebs.
You can find me on all social media platforms at

(56:58):
some kind of Brown. My podcast Some Kind of Brown
is on actually all of the podcast as I have
any teenager website for a teenager because it still has
a dot WordPress dot com, so it's some kind of
brown and it has all the episodes that I have

(57:20):
I've had so far, and you can find out more
about mid November or any of the guests or episodes
that I've had on there too. Amazing. Thank you again, Um,
you are awesome and I'm sure we're going to keep
in connection. Yes, we wanted you to know we support
everything you're doing and we want to make sure that, um,

(57:41):
you know that we over here at sementthe love what
you're doing and are great grateful that you're doing it. Yes,
thank you so much. How do you want to say
my girlfriend is a big fan of your podcast? Yeah, hello, hello, Yeah,
I see a chance to move went and something that

(58:06):
I think I really appreciate what your higast is just
about being a woman without necessarily putting a limit on
what that means. And I think that's really company for
people who are transgender women to just have this place

(58:26):
where they can talk about femininity and being a woman
in at the same time being included in the narrative.
That brings us to the end of this another delightful
interview with UM all of your listeners. I'm always so
impressed and inspired in awe the things that you all
are doing. So keep keep letting us know what you're

(58:49):
up to. We love hearing about it. Um. And, as
Natalie said, probably everybody on this list we could have
talked about a whole episode, right, It's not, as she
had said before, even though I was like, oh, yeah,
it's a big list, it really isn't. And it's probably
an endless list of people that we could talk about
who identified as female or non binary that needs to

(59:10):
be recognized, that we need to be talking about, and
that their history does need to be preserved and the
things that they have done for their community as well
as for their culture. And I think I'm very sad
that we couldn't get we don't have all the information
that we absolutely should and uh that that this is
the first time I've heard of probably about four of

(59:32):
those women, some I've ever talked about that and that
makes me really sad. Yeah, UM, And Natalie's says she
had an entire spreadsheet of women and she had to choose. Like,
I appreciate the difficulty of that, Natalie, as you as
you're if you're listening to this now, UM, I've been
in that situation. Not similar, but be like, pick of
all of these amazing women, picked the three bests, and

(59:54):
you're like, A, here's this movies and other things right now?
Is all I can think of this? Movi vies because
we've been talking about movies. Yes, yes, but I also
have more important items in my brains sometimes. Um, but yeah, yeah,
I would love to hear about every single woman on
that spreadsheet. So we'll see if we should just gotten
that so we can publish it. Oh, you can ask Satalie.

(01:00:16):
Maybe she doesn't want to share your secrets. I don't know.
I'm putting that on my show. If not, you should
definitely go listen to her show. You should absolutely do
that because, um, as you said, we all need to
know these stories and they're so valuable um and inspiring
they are. Yes. UM, So if you would like to

(01:00:36):
email us with whatever Europe to or people we should
be talking about, whatever is on your mind, you can
do that. Our email is Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
i heeart media dot com. You can also find us
on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at
Stuff I've Never Told You Thanks to Natalie for being
our wonderful interviewee. Thank you to Andrew are super producer.

(01:01:00):
Another thank you, and thank you for listening. Stuff Never
told you his protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart
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