April 30, 2022 • 28 mins
A recent study found straight men avoid environmentally-friendly behaviors out of fears that people will perceive them as gay. Anney and Samantha sort through homophobia, sexism, and environmental issues in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm not going to
stuff I never told you production of I Heart Radio.
I have a strange question for you today. Do you
have a favorite Muppet? Um? I did? I think it was, Yeah,
(00:27):
it's been a long time. Either it was Gonzo or
Teddy Fonzi Fonziz, Yes, Fonzi the Bear. Yeah, Funzy was
either that one or Gonzo. Those two are my favorite.
I think you're right. I think it is Fozzy Bear
and we're saying Fonzi Bear, but I love it. I'm
having a struggle, have to look it up. I didn't
(00:49):
mean to din into a thing. I liked Gonzo too,
and I'm not sure why, not that he's like a
bad character. I'm just not like why as a kid
I latched onto him. I know he had that whole
thing where he was like from space, and maybe I
was into that. Yeah. I loved him up at Christmas
Caroll growing up, and he was sort of the main character.
(01:10):
So maybe it was that. Yeah, I was jealous my
little brother. I never watched Sesame Street, but my older
brother did. And I don't know why I didn't, but
I was always jealous and he was super into it.
When we were growing up obviously like outside of the
muppetside like a good like Yoda. But we're talking you
(01:31):
know specific Okay, okay, okay, it is Fozzy Bear. We
are saying that's wrong, but Fozzy band Like, there's so
many things that it doesn't connect. As an adult, that
was like, yes, yes, I think it's funny. I think
we're equating was his happy days. I think that's what's happening,
(01:54):
to be honest. I had one of my good friends
in college. She had a really excellent animal posted like
the drummer, UM, So that's that was pretty good. I
liked that. Well, I'm bringing this up because we've been
doing a lot of contents around sustainability and environmentalism and
(02:17):
the intersectionality of environmentalism UM this month, this being the
month of April, and we mentioned in a previous episode
this episode we've done in the past about gender differences
and homophobia around recycling. UM, so we thought we'd bring
that back. But the title, of course is it Ain't
Easy Being Green. So yeah, I forgot. You did such
(02:41):
a great job with that title. Also, we may get
copyright infringement here we go. Well, we've dodged the bullets
so far, but yes, here we go. Please enjoy this
classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome
to stuff. Never told you protection of I heart ideas,
(03:01):
how stuff parks. You have probably heard about our topic today,
the study that is making the rounds in in our
news cycle about men and recycling, and specifically heterosexual men
(03:26):
who don't recycle because they are afraid that doing so
make others perceive them as homosexual. Right right, So, yes,
this is a star homophobia, among other things. That's the
first thing I think, you recycle? How dare you? You
must be gay? I mean that I thought that was
what we are about. No sarcasm. Um. There has been
(03:47):
a lot of stuff I just wanted to say at
the top before we get into this. Um there. There's
been a lot in the news lately about the merits
of recycling and the problem of recycling poorly that a
lot of us do. I know that. I was shocked
to learn some of the things I should have been
doing this whole time and I didn't realize, like taking
the little slippy thing off bottles. I didn't know that. Yeah, um,
(04:08):
so keep that in the back of your mind as well.
The China not taking our waist anymore recycling, So some
places are burning it. Um thanks not properly washing items out,
the cost of recycling um And in a lot of
waste recycling is privileged access to bins or a police recycle.
Time to die. I will say one of my favorite
(04:30):
UM day after stories. After a night of drinking and partying,
I had been telling people about this that I heard
a story about how we're doing a bad job recycling.
We need to wash out all of our plastics. And
the next morning I woke up and I opened the
dishwasher and there's all this plastic stuff in there. I
(04:53):
called out, who did this? What is this? And my friends,
like you said, we didn't clean our arts. Your friend
was doing exactly what you asked. I sure it might
melt into the system and everything goes wrong, and with
the actual suchwasher, but she was doing what you asked.
I guess I can't blame her. You're right. Also just
wanted to mention side note, people have been recycling since
(05:14):
four d b C. Does it look like long time?
I mean, I think it's probably just you know, be
doing using Okay, So just to start out, the average
American produces four point three pounds of waste a day,
adding up to an annual two hundred and forty three
million tons. The more industrialized the country, the more waste
(05:36):
it produces generally. But okay, so this this study that
we mentioned, Researchers at Penn State University recently published a
study and the journal Sex Roles called gender Bending and
Gender Conformity The Social Consequences of engaging in Feminine and
masculine pro environmental behaviors that found participants perceived men who
(05:56):
used reusable tope bags as a less mascular and not
only that, the nine sixty participants also coded recycling and
clothesline drying as a more feminine thing. Both male and
female participants reported that, which, of course, is a bad
thing in our ridiculous gendered society. Previous research has come
to similar conclusions, and this has an impact on the
(06:19):
health and future of our planet. So that's huge and
yet still relatively minor on the scale things, considering that
as nine companies were responsible for two thirds of global
emissions from the start of the industrial age until now.
That said, attitudes like this do you point to larger
(06:39):
problems like homophobia and may restrain effective climate climate activism,
and again going back to we've talked about it before,
the reaction to ao c S Green Deal and the
criticism around it, a lot of it did seem to
boil down to be quiet. You see the little girl
and stay away from my man hamburgers. You want to
take away meat? You you've monster do like meat? Though
(07:02):
I do too, I do too, but it was a little,
just a bit, just a bit um. And we've also
talked before about the feminization of the Democratic Party at
large and climate as a part of that is damaging
when it comes to having a global impact on climate change.
And on a personal note, I have to say when
(07:23):
I see people doing environmentally friendly things, I never, to
my knowledge I thought that they are gay. But I
have thought, um, they're probably liberal, which is messed up
in itself, right. I agree with you on that, never
really placed some idea of a sexual identity on it,
but did think of it as a city thing quote unquote.
Grew up in a very rural area and that didn't
(07:45):
have uh any of the city trash pickup or recycling
beans in any of that such and so I had
no real idea concept behind recycling. I knew what it was.
Of course I watched Sesame Street Recycle Reduced Reuse Sesame Street.
I did learn that girl like at that. Hey, look,
there's a lot of power behind us this. But up
until recently, we either um just took the Either just
(08:09):
took the trash to a city dumpster, which actually cost
us money because you have to weigh it and then
or you just burned it and that was it. In
the backyard, we had a little special spot where we
burned the trash and that was the end of the story.
In anything else that didn't burn, you just took it.
And I think even now my parents do that because
they don't have access to trash. Men's were still so
(08:31):
far out of the city lines quote unquote that we
don't have access or my parents don't have access to that.
So part of that is a I did come from
a small town that didn't have that, be we couldn't
really afford or had the time because they had four kids. Again,
this is all excuses, but essentially we were like a
lower income family growing up, so that was not an
(08:54):
option or a thought to me. It was never about
anybody being gay, No, no, it would seemed like more
of a privileged and more of a puppity yeah city
and exactly than anything else. My so, I'm also from
(09:14):
a very small town, but um my dad is super.
He was the environmentalist in our family, and um it
was we always did it, but we did have to.
Like that reminded me of you know, you would save
up the cans. You'd get twelve cents a can. But
if we wanted to recycle, we we would put stuff
(09:37):
under our house for storage because it was thirty minutes away,
so we would like have to make it worth it
to go out there and it would be you know,
recycling day, all go out and sort and do stuff
like that. I think we gave our cans to an
uncle who would walk to the it was an all
day walk for him, so and get that money and
(09:57):
change back so he could buy us. Come. Oh yeah,
you really wanted some gum? Huh No, I didn't want to.
They just brought it to us. Okay, that was that
was this go too. That's an interesting one. Um, And
I was thinking about this. I also was wondering why
it is that caring about stuff like your health. As
(10:18):
we discussed in our our why men like meats and
women like salad episode the Health of the planet. Why
is that feminine? Weak? Um? Feminine and thus weak. Yeah,
that's that's pretty ridiculous. Um. Some researchers suggest women prioritize
altruistic issues more than men are. Maybe has to do
(10:40):
with empathy or lack thereof. I kind of wonder. No
one really, to my knowledge, brought this up, but I
was sort of wondering, especially the use reusable bags. Maybe
it's just some weird association with women carrying bags and
men normally don't. Yeah, but we have bike messenger bags
and bredecases that's all been in use for years. And
(11:00):
briefcases a sign of status. Right. There's one of my
uh dear friends who works here, Chandler. He carries a briefcase.
And Chandler is like, Chandler is not He's a T
shirt and flip ups I love. But in my head,
I'm like, yeah, see that means he's a status he's
got a break case of really well, yeah, with all
(11:24):
the bits and pieces of the information, it just seems
like assigning something as effeminate makes it an automatic negative. This,
of course, can be another episode. But how did the
political and social agenda begin to weaponize gender in such
a weird way. I know it's a whole historical patriarchal
society thing, but to define an idea as girly or
(11:45):
wimpy like environmental issues or help just seems so far fetched.
It's almost like an S and L sketch. Yeah. Like
it's like when I first read that that recycling was
associated with being gay, I was like, this is an
onion article, right right? It was so absurd, Yeah, totally.
The study found also that when given the option between
(12:06):
partnering with a member of the opposite sex that was
gender conforming and gender nonconforming when it came to environmental hablets,
so eco friendler choices for women within their realm, within
this feminine realm that we've made up, so not so
much like Caulking windows as the example. They kept giving
and non eco friendly choices for men. And yes this
is hit or hetero normative men are more likely to
(12:29):
go with the gender conforming option. Um yeah, so when
this woman was when if if given the example again
calking windows, this woman was more likely to have her
sexuality thrown into question too, even though that is an
environmentally friendly thing. But it's seem as more manly construction.
You don't do construct. Women don't do construct. You can't
(12:50):
build things. The sides say men at work, not women work.
Why could we doing that? Some of the other pro
environmental behaviors are peb s as this that he labeled them.
We're paying your bills online, which I just see a
convenient like first environmentally friendly good plus right, A is
convenient because I'm lazy and don't want to actually write
(13:13):
things out. So if you can do it as an
automatic withdrawal, wonderful. Be Usually I get some kind of
benefit from it. You know, um whatever ac count gives
you a small discount, and I'm like, yeah, YEA, give
me that. Also, you don't have to shread it, although
probably your information is available online, but you don't have
to go through this streading up the paper. And then
I also stole things from the trash cans and recycling
(13:36):
bents all the time. I know. That's why I tear
things up and then I mix them up in different
Do you do that too too? I just like it's
kind of like sprinkling about. Yes, I got like a
little box and every week I put a little bit
in there. I'm not gonna get my info unless I
go to a store where all of it stolen. Anyway,
this is a different episode um turning off. The A
C also was in there, which is weird because that's
(13:57):
my dad. My dad would deal out about how we need. Yeah,
they would say money as well as shutting the door.
These these things were closed off, and I've never heard
my mom. My mom would definitely do that, but my
dad would be the one to be complained the loudest
about that. And my mom would be like, I'm cold,
I'm too warm with like something along those lines. Yeah.
So I've never seen that as affeminate either. Yeah, Yeah,
(14:18):
definitely environmental. I mean maybe it's social like where you're at.
Maybe yes, And I will say, and we're going to
talk about this a little bit more in a second.
At first, I was hesitant to talk about this at
all because all times these studies come out and then
catch headlines and it's kind of the news cycle getting
(14:39):
really excited about something and there might not be that much.
Actually they're right, but there have been several studies around
this and they've found similar things. So even if it's hard,
people are complicated and it's really hard to get to
one thing, right, Why But there has been a lot
of research done around this and there is something going on, right,
I mean, they've done the research about why people aren't
(15:00):
doing it to begin with, and kind of like you
and I talked about why we I didn't do it
growing up, but what the reasons were. It kind of
was like, wait, but there's a bigger significance in this
population more than that, So obviously, yeah, there's a lot
going on. Um. Women in the study, they express a
desire to associate with women who shared their views on
the environment and the behaviors that came along with that. Yeah.
(15:22):
From least, study author Janet case Swim, she says, we
were surprised that it was only women who experienced being
avoided if they engaged in nonconforming gender role behaviors. We
can't say why this is happening, but it is a
social consequence. Women may be experiencing this negative feedback and
might not know why. That's my whole life negative feedback,
(15:43):
and that's gonna be on your tombstone. Perfect. So see,
this is an example of homophobia hurting everybody everyone, um,
primarily lgbt Q plus people of course, but everybody. This
is deeply ingrained. Even a dude who is all for
l g B t Q plus right might shape at
being quote mistaken for being gay. Um. Same for women.
(16:05):
It can lead to violence or refusal to back down
to make sure manliness is intact when it comes to fights.
It contributes to a culture that accepts the degradation and
even assault of women. It might prevent men who suffer
from depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation from seeking help for
fear of seeming gay. So this is this is pretty big.
(16:27):
It's pretty big. It's very important, and we do have
other studies that we can talk about in regards to
all of this. But first we're gonna pause for a
quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back,
(16:50):
Thank you sponsor. There is another study we wanted to
touch on from Scientific American from looking into what they
deemed as the gender gap between green behaviors. Two thousand
Americans and Chinese participated. It's similarly found a connection between
environmentally friendly behaviors and perceived femininity. It built on earlier
(17:12):
studies that found women litteral less, recycle more wasteless water
and electricity, and overall have less of a carbon footprint
than men. In the study, participants were asked to rate
the environmental friendliness of a canvas bag and then the
perceived masculinity or femininity. Almost everyone gave it the check
this canvas bag as environmentally friendly um, and almost everyone
(17:35):
coded it as feminine, no matter the gender of the
person carrying the bag. In another experiment, men were given
a flowery pink gift card a k A. A girly
gift card, and then we're asked to use it to
buy either regular or eco friendly items, and they were
more likely to a shoe the eco friendly stuff if
they had gotten the flowery pink cards supposed to a regular,
(17:57):
non coded feminine card. And I love in the steady
the language they used. We threatened their masculinity with a pink,
flowery card. It's so serious, but it's so silly. Um.
There are bags to that say I use this bag
because my wife cares about the environment. So all right, yeah,
(18:20):
I think that just grows overall. I mean, I go
for the puns. Have you seen those bags where it says,
you know, um, turn up for what? And when I
mean turn up tu r in I p yes, of course,
let us Do you have have the turn up for what.
Oh that's Oh, Samantha, I love you even more. Yeah,
I mean it's obviously better. And how is that of
(18:41):
fem it it's just puns. It doesn't love a good pun.
It's best believe vegetable pun those are the best of
the punis. I'm glad we agree on it, um and yeah,
this is I Like I said, this is very odd
to me personally because my dad in our family was
(19:02):
all about protecting the environment. He kind of led the
charge in our house right, And like I said, my
parents weren't really at all into it. I don't know
their opinion about it now, but the dudes I hang
out with are now more likely and more thoughtful than
I am about it. Like they will go and rents
out everything and make sure it's completely dry, take a
part everything put you know, they are the ones that
(19:23):
did that. I'm just gonna sit there and just sits
in my bag and my weight to do it at
the very last minute of any of the things. So
I'm like, yeah, I don't see that. Maybe he's just
the people I hang out with. Yeah, I think that's
also the ways that I attributed to like city life
versus rural life. Yeah, yeah, I think those are both
valid points. Another study found that this behavior of safeguarding
(19:47):
masculining when it comes to green behavior is conducted in
public and private, which is fascinating to maintain your self
perception of your your masculinity fascinating. On top of that,
men are more likely to work in the waste and
recycling industry, and these industries have even launched campaigns focused
on increasing the number of female workers in their ranks.
(20:09):
Worth noting um because it came up from several articles.
Makeup and fashion industries, largely made of female consumers, produce
a lot of waste um and related. If you look
at the zero waste movement that largely falls to women
as well, makeup and all. So this is exactly what
it sounds like if you're not familiar, it's you know,
(20:30):
producing zero wast stories close to it as you can
using Mason jars, organizing refrigerators. According to Vox, this too
has been feminized largely because women still do most of
the grocery shopping in this country. It's another piece of this.
All we women are supposed to be having the perfect
clean home is labor intensive. There's also the bad aspect
(20:54):
of it. Since women usually carry bags, they get the
joy of carrying all the reusable utensils, nap constrals, mason jars,
and tense. When it comes to this zero waste movement,
you can also find arguments out there that waste and
pollution impacts women more than men. That's interesting. Yeah, I think, um,
the whole no waste movement in doing all of that,
that's a lot of work. When I watch people talk
(21:17):
about how they have to do it and what they do,
it's a lot of thought process. And yeah, I'm lazy,
but I need to do better. I need to do better.
But I think it's gonna be a little while if
I can get to the no waste part of all
of that. Yeah, Um, I know, Joe keV on my
calendar on September six, be better well, because it's after tracking.
(21:46):
Got I'm not going to be better during bank and
I'm gonna be worse. I'm at my worst during racket Okay, okay,
all right, and I got you, I got you. Um.
But that's the topic I would love to return to
some day of um, waste and pollution impacting women more
than men? Um, Because there are there's a lot of
studies out there about that, and especially like when it
(22:10):
comes to fertility and breast cancer things like that. Anyway,
future episode we do have some more in this very
episode though, but first we have one more quick break
for word from our sponsor and we're back, thank you sponsor.
(22:38):
So um. On a grim note, according to some scientists,
we may only have eighteen months to do something about
climate change before it's the point of no return, before
it is too late. Um. So this is this is
an important conversation to be had right now. Even though
like we said at the top, really companies are the
(22:58):
ones we need. Yeah, but but the behaviors that we
have on individual level can influence things like that, because
if the individuals in that company are having these also
negative things and also capitalism and can't forget that, but
it does make a difference. One of the studies suggested
(23:18):
masculine friendly marketing around eco friendly products of behaviors, which
I guess if it helps, but oh my gosh. From
Scientific American eco friendly marketing messages and materials can be
designed to affirm men's masculinity and give them the confidence
to overcome their fear of being judged as feminine. When
(23:39):
engaging in green behaviors. For example, and one experiment, men
who receive feedback affirming their masculinity were more interested in
purchasing an eco friendly version of a cleaning product. Men
who feel secure in their manhood are more comfortable going green. Second,
green products and organizations can be marketed as more men
environmentally friendly. That was them, not me, that made me
(24:00):
want to vomit um with more masculine fonts colors, whereas
an images used in the branding to illustratement in one experiment,
were more likely to donate to a green nonprofit with
a masculine logo which black and dark blue colors featuring
a howling wolf with the name Wilderness Rangers and bold
font than one in a traditional logo. Green and light
(24:22):
tan colors featuring a tree with the name of Friends
of Nature and a frilly font make the man feel manly,
and he's more likely to go green. I don't we've
got the solution is helping. I also have seen ads
lately come my way on this very show about like um.
(24:45):
They're trying to turn cleaning into a masculine thing so
women feel better about doing it. This is missing the
whole point but it is like a reverse psychology type
of It's like women, we know that it takes a
real tough person to cleaning the house. That's women doing
most of that work. So you're super tough. What is happening?
What is happening? Wow? Anyway, Um, these are these are
(25:10):
legit suggestions, just to drive that point home again, because
we do try to end on what can we do?
These are the suggestions we found, So make your marketing
more manly. Another suggestion is using more male figures and
ads about sustainability. I mean, we do have Bernie the
Bernie Brose. They listen to Bernie with his stuff about
global warming and overall sustainability. That's cool, right, We're already
(25:32):
a step up. Maybe all of this feels so we're
just making We're still saying it's worse to be effeminate
or gay, and so therefore we must change everything so
that men can feel comfortable. You know what, I love
empathy and just good kind humanity. Yeah, I like I
(25:57):
like a planet that's habitable. And I know there's been
a lot of talk about recycling, and they that recycling
is not the end all be all, but this all
these habits to just so much more than just recycling,
like not even bringing a canvas bag. Um and Stephen
Colbert after this study came out, he ran with this
(26:20):
the earth maybe boiling and broiling to a crisp But
according to a new study, men don't recycle to avoid
looking gay. Really, really, man, is there no limit to
straight male fragility? This isn't just to toxic masculiney. This
is literally toxic. And as a rugged heterosexual man, I
feel responsible to convince my fellow harry chested man men
like caring for the earth is butch as hell? Oh
(26:44):
my god, you know what, this doesn't remind me a
little of um, the Parks and rec episode with the
lawn versus Ron. I feel like that's an interesting because
I kept thinking about that, about the dudes who are
like the Ron Swanson type dudes who who live off
the earth and who make all their own stuff and
are always seen as supermanly. But I guess it's just
when it comes to carrying bags. Yeah, we we need
(27:07):
to get rid of we need to recycle these outdated
gender attitudes and just move forward. On to move forward. Yeah,
let's not assign things with gender as gender about that? Yeah,
um so that's where will we'll stop for this episode.
(27:29):
UM we do wanna um do an episode around eco feminism.
That's something that's been I've been excited to talk about
for a while. So if you have anything about that,
please right in. We're planning on bringing back listener mail soon.
So get those are we yes? Yes, no, it's exciting.
Get those letters coming. You can emails at Steff Media,
mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find
(27:51):
us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram
at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks it's always to
our super producer Andrew Howard, who recycles yes, and thanks
to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You his
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff works. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio is the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm not going to
stuff I never told you production of I Heart Radio.
I have a strange question for you today. Do you
have a favorite Muppet? Um? I did? I think it was, Yeah,
(00:27):
it's been a long time. Either it was Gonzo or
Teddy Fonzi Fonziz, Yes, Fonzi the Bear. Yeah, Funzy was
either that one or Gonzo. Those two are my favorite.
I think you're right. I think it is Fozzy Bear
and we're saying Fonzi Bear, but I love it. I'm
having a struggle, have to look it up. I didn't
(00:49):
mean to din into a thing. I liked Gonzo too,
and I'm not sure why, not that he's like a
bad character. I'm just not like why as a kid
I latched onto him. I know he had that whole
thing where he was like from space, and maybe I
was into that. Yeah. I loved him up at Christmas
Caroll growing up, and he was sort of the main character.
(01:10):
So maybe it was that. Yeah, I was jealous my
little brother. I never watched Sesame Street, but my older
brother did. And I don't know why I didn't, but
I was always jealous and he was super into it.
When we were growing up obviously like outside of the
muppetside like a good like Yoda. But we're talking you
(01:31):
know specific Okay, okay, okay, it is Fozzy Bear. We
are saying that's wrong, but Fozzy band Like, there's so
many things that it doesn't connect. As an adult, that
was like, yes, yes, I think it's funny. I think
we're equating was his happy days. I think that's what's happening,
(01:54):
to be honest. I had one of my good friends
in college. She had a really excellent animal posted like
the drummer, UM, So that's that was pretty good. I
liked that. Well, I'm bringing this up because we've been
doing a lot of contents around sustainability and environmentalism and
(02:17):
the intersectionality of environmentalism UM this month, this being the
month of April, and we mentioned in a previous episode
this episode we've done in the past about gender differences
and homophobia around recycling. UM, so we thought we'd bring
that back. But the title, of course is it Ain't
Easy Being Green. So yeah, I forgot. You did such
(02:41):
a great job with that title. Also, we may get
copyright infringement here we go. Well, we've dodged the bullets
so far, but yes, here we go. Please enjoy this
classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome
to stuff. Never told you protection of I heart ideas,
(03:01):
how stuff parks. You have probably heard about our topic today,
the study that is making the rounds in in our
news cycle about men and recycling, and specifically heterosexual men
(03:26):
who don't recycle because they are afraid that doing so
make others perceive them as homosexual. Right right, So, yes,
this is a star homophobia, among other things. That's the
first thing I think, you recycle? How dare you? You
must be gay? I mean that I thought that was
what we are about. No sarcasm. Um. There has been
(03:47):
a lot of stuff I just wanted to say at
the top before we get into this. Um there. There's
been a lot in the news lately about the merits
of recycling and the problem of recycling poorly that a
lot of us do. I know that. I was shocked
to learn some of the things I should have been
doing this whole time and I didn't realize, like taking
the little slippy thing off bottles. I didn't know that. Yeah, um,
(04:08):
so keep that in the back of your mind as well.
The China not taking our waist anymore recycling, So some
places are burning it. Um thanks not properly washing items out,
the cost of recycling um And in a lot of
waste recycling is privileged access to bins or a police recycle.
Time to die. I will say one of my favorite
(04:30):
UM day after stories. After a night of drinking and partying,
I had been telling people about this that I heard
a story about how we're doing a bad job recycling.
We need to wash out all of our plastics. And
the next morning I woke up and I opened the
dishwasher and there's all this plastic stuff in there. I
(04:53):
called out, who did this? What is this? And my friends,
like you said, we didn't clean our arts. Your friend
was doing exactly what you asked. I sure it might
melt into the system and everything goes wrong, and with
the actual suchwasher, but she was doing what you asked.
I guess I can't blame her. You're right. Also just
wanted to mention side note, people have been recycling since
(05:14):
four d b C. Does it look like long time?
I mean, I think it's probably just you know, be
doing using Okay, So just to start out, the average
American produces four point three pounds of waste a day,
adding up to an annual two hundred and forty three
million tons. The more industrialized the country, the more waste
(05:36):
it produces generally. But okay, so this this study that
we mentioned, Researchers at Penn State University recently published a
study and the journal Sex Roles called gender Bending and
Gender Conformity The Social Consequences of engaging in Feminine and
masculine pro environmental behaviors that found participants perceived men who
(05:56):
used reusable tope bags as a less mascular and not
only that, the nine sixty participants also coded recycling and
clothesline drying as a more feminine thing. Both male and
female participants reported that, which, of course, is a bad
thing in our ridiculous gendered society. Previous research has come
to similar conclusions, and this has an impact on the
(06:19):
health and future of our planet. So that's huge and
yet still relatively minor on the scale things, considering that
as nine companies were responsible for two thirds of global
emissions from the start of the industrial age until now.
That said, attitudes like this do you point to larger
(06:39):
problems like homophobia and may restrain effective climate climate activism,
and again going back to we've talked about it before,
the reaction to ao c S Green Deal and the
criticism around it, a lot of it did seem to
boil down to be quiet. You see the little girl
and stay away from my man hamburgers. You want to
take away meat? You you've monster do like meat? Though
(07:02):
I do too, I do too, but it was a little,
just a bit, just a bit um. And we've also
talked before about the feminization of the Democratic Party at
large and climate as a part of that is damaging
when it comes to having a global impact on climate change.
And on a personal note, I have to say when
(07:23):
I see people doing environmentally friendly things, I never, to
my knowledge I thought that they are gay. But I
have thought, um, they're probably liberal, which is messed up
in itself, right. I agree with you on that, never
really placed some idea of a sexual identity on it,
but did think of it as a city thing quote unquote.
Grew up in a very rural area and that didn't
(07:45):
have uh any of the city trash pickup or recycling
beans in any of that such and so I had
no real idea concept behind recycling. I knew what it was.
Of course I watched Sesame Street Recycle Reduced Reuse Sesame Street.
I did learn that girl like at that. Hey, look,
there's a lot of power behind us this. But up
until recently, we either um just took the Either just
(08:09):
took the trash to a city dumpster, which actually cost
us money because you have to weigh it and then
or you just burned it and that was it. In
the backyard, we had a little special spot where we
burned the trash and that was the end of the story.
In anything else that didn't burn, you just took it.
And I think even now my parents do that because
they don't have access to trash. Men's were still so
(08:31):
far out of the city lines quote unquote that we
don't have access or my parents don't have access to that.
So part of that is a I did come from
a small town that didn't have that, be we couldn't
really afford or had the time because they had four kids. Again,
this is all excuses, but essentially we were like a
lower income family growing up, so that was not an
(08:54):
option or a thought to me. It was never about
anybody being gay, No, no, it would seemed like more
of a privileged and more of a puppity yeah city
and exactly than anything else. My so, I'm also from
(09:14):
a very small town, but um my dad is super.
He was the environmentalist in our family, and um it
was we always did it, but we did have to.
Like that reminded me of you know, you would save
up the cans. You'd get twelve cents a can. But
if we wanted to recycle, we we would put stuff
(09:37):
under our house for storage because it was thirty minutes away,
so we would like have to make it worth it
to go out there and it would be you know,
recycling day, all go out and sort and do stuff
like that. I think we gave our cans to an
uncle who would walk to the it was an all
day walk for him, so and get that money and
(09:57):
change back so he could buy us. Come. Oh yeah,
you really wanted some gum? Huh No, I didn't want to.
They just brought it to us. Okay, that was that
was this go too. That's an interesting one. Um, And
I was thinking about this. I also was wondering why
it is that caring about stuff like your health. As
(10:18):
we discussed in our our why men like meats and
women like salad episode the Health of the planet. Why
is that feminine? Weak? Um? Feminine and thus weak. Yeah,
that's that's pretty ridiculous. Um. Some researchers suggest women prioritize
altruistic issues more than men are. Maybe has to do
(10:40):
with empathy or lack thereof. I kind of wonder. No
one really, to my knowledge, brought this up, but I
was sort of wondering, especially the use reusable bags. Maybe
it's just some weird association with women carrying bags and
men normally don't. Yeah, but we have bike messenger bags
and bredecases that's all been in use for years. And
(11:00):
briefcases a sign of status. Right. There's one of my
uh dear friends who works here, Chandler. He carries a briefcase.
And Chandler is like, Chandler is not He's a T
shirt and flip ups I love. But in my head,
I'm like, yeah, see that means he's a status he's
got a break case of really well, yeah, with all
(11:24):
the bits and pieces of the information, it just seems
like assigning something as effeminate makes it an automatic negative. This,
of course, can be another episode. But how did the
political and social agenda begin to weaponize gender in such
a weird way. I know it's a whole historical patriarchal
society thing, but to define an idea as girly or
(11:45):
wimpy like environmental issues or help just seems so far fetched.
It's almost like an S and L sketch. Yeah. Like
it's like when I first read that that recycling was
associated with being gay, I was like, this is an
onion article, right right? It was so absurd, Yeah, totally.
The study found also that when given the option between
(12:06):
partnering with a member of the opposite sex that was
gender conforming and gender nonconforming when it came to environmental hablets,
so eco friendler choices for women within their realm, within
this feminine realm that we've made up, so not so
much like Caulking windows as the example. They kept giving
and non eco friendly choices for men. And yes this
is hit or hetero normative men are more likely to
(12:29):
go with the gender conforming option. Um yeah, so when
this woman was when if if given the example again
calking windows, this woman was more likely to have her
sexuality thrown into question too, even though that is an
environmentally friendly thing. But it's seem as more manly construction.
You don't do construct. Women don't do construct. You can't
(12:50):
build things. The sides say men at work, not women work.
Why could we doing that? Some of the other pro
environmental behaviors are peb s as this that he labeled them.
We're paying your bills online, which I just see a
convenient like first environmentally friendly good plus right, A is
convenient because I'm lazy and don't want to actually write
(13:13):
things out. So if you can do it as an
automatic withdrawal, wonderful. Be Usually I get some kind of
benefit from it. You know, um whatever ac count gives
you a small discount, and I'm like, yeah, YEA, give
me that. Also, you don't have to shread it, although
probably your information is available online, but you don't have
to go through this streading up the paper. And then
I also stole things from the trash cans and recycling
(13:36):
bents all the time. I know. That's why I tear
things up and then I mix them up in different
Do you do that too too? I just like it's
kind of like sprinkling about. Yes, I got like a
little box and every week I put a little bit
in there. I'm not gonna get my info unless I
go to a store where all of it stolen. Anyway,
this is a different episode um turning off. The A
C also was in there, which is weird because that's
(13:57):
my dad. My dad would deal out about how we need. Yeah,
they would say money as well as shutting the door.
These these things were closed off, and I've never heard
my mom. My mom would definitely do that, but my
dad would be the one to be complained the loudest
about that. And my mom would be like, I'm cold,
I'm too warm with like something along those lines. Yeah.
So I've never seen that as affeminate either. Yeah, Yeah,
(14:18):
definitely environmental. I mean maybe it's social like where you're at.
Maybe yes, And I will say, and we're going to
talk about this a little bit more in a second.
At first, I was hesitant to talk about this at
all because all times these studies come out and then
catch headlines and it's kind of the news cycle getting
(14:39):
really excited about something and there might not be that much.
Actually they're right, but there have been several studies around
this and they've found similar things. So even if it's hard,
people are complicated and it's really hard to get to
one thing, right, Why But there has been a lot
of research done around this and there is something going on, right,
I mean, they've done the research about why people aren't
(15:00):
doing it to begin with, and kind of like you
and I talked about why we I didn't do it
growing up, but what the reasons were. It kind of
was like, wait, but there's a bigger significance in this
population more than that, So obviously, yeah, there's a lot
going on. Um. Women in the study, they express a
desire to associate with women who shared their views on
the environment and the behaviors that came along with that. Yeah.
(15:22):
From least, study author Janet case Swim, she says, we
were surprised that it was only women who experienced being
avoided if they engaged in nonconforming gender role behaviors. We
can't say why this is happening, but it is a
social consequence. Women may be experiencing this negative feedback and
might not know why. That's my whole life negative feedback,
(15:43):
and that's gonna be on your tombstone. Perfect. So see,
this is an example of homophobia hurting everybody everyone, um,
primarily lgbt Q plus people of course, but everybody. This
is deeply ingrained. Even a dude who is all for
l g B t Q plus right might shape at
being quote mistaken for being gay. Um. Same for women.
(16:05):
It can lead to violence or refusal to back down
to make sure manliness is intact when it comes to fights.
It contributes to a culture that accepts the degradation and
even assault of women. It might prevent men who suffer
from depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation from seeking help for
fear of seeming gay. So this is this is pretty big.
(16:27):
It's pretty big. It's very important, and we do have
other studies that we can talk about in regards to
all of this. But first we're gonna pause for a
quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back,
(16:50):
Thank you sponsor. There is another study we wanted to
touch on from Scientific American from looking into what they
deemed as the gender gap between green behaviors. Two thousand
Americans and Chinese participated. It's similarly found a connection between
environmentally friendly behaviors and perceived femininity. It built on earlier
(17:12):
studies that found women litteral less, recycle more wasteless water
and electricity, and overall have less of a carbon footprint
than men. In the study, participants were asked to rate
the environmental friendliness of a canvas bag and then the
perceived masculinity or femininity. Almost everyone gave it the check
this canvas bag as environmentally friendly um, and almost everyone
(17:35):
coded it as feminine, no matter the gender of the
person carrying the bag. In another experiment, men were given
a flowery pink gift card a k A. A girly
gift card, and then we're asked to use it to
buy either regular or eco friendly items, and they were
more likely to a shoe the eco friendly stuff if
they had gotten the flowery pink cards supposed to a regular,
(17:57):
non coded feminine card. And I love in the steady
the language they used. We threatened their masculinity with a pink,
flowery card. It's so serious, but it's so silly. Um.
There are bags to that say I use this bag
because my wife cares about the environment. So all right, yeah,
(18:20):
I think that just grows overall. I mean, I go
for the puns. Have you seen those bags where it says,
you know, um, turn up for what? And when I
mean turn up tu r in I p yes, of course,
let us Do you have have the turn up for what.
Oh that's Oh, Samantha, I love you even more. Yeah,
I mean it's obviously better. And how is that of
(18:41):
fem it it's just puns. It doesn't love a good pun.
It's best believe vegetable pun those are the best of
the punis. I'm glad we agree on it, um and yeah,
this is I Like I said, this is very odd
to me personally because my dad in our family was
(19:02):
all about protecting the environment. He kind of led the
charge in our house right, And like I said, my
parents weren't really at all into it. I don't know
their opinion about it now, but the dudes I hang
out with are now more likely and more thoughtful than
I am about it. Like they will go and rents
out everything and make sure it's completely dry, take a
part everything put you know, they are the ones that
(19:23):
did that. I'm just gonna sit there and just sits
in my bag and my weight to do it at
the very last minute of any of the things. So
I'm like, yeah, I don't see that. Maybe he's just
the people I hang out with. Yeah, I think that's
also the ways that I attributed to like city life
versus rural life. Yeah, yeah, I think those are both
valid points. Another study found that this behavior of safeguarding
(19:47):
masculining when it comes to green behavior is conducted in
public and private, which is fascinating to maintain your self
perception of your your masculinity fascinating. On top of that,
men are more likely to work in the waste and
recycling industry, and these industries have even launched campaigns focused
on increasing the number of female workers in their ranks.
(20:09):
Worth noting um because it came up from several articles.
Makeup and fashion industries, largely made of female consumers, produce
a lot of waste um and related. If you look
at the zero waste movement that largely falls to women
as well, makeup and all. So this is exactly what
it sounds like if you're not familiar, it's you know,
(20:30):
producing zero wast stories close to it as you can
using Mason jars, organizing refrigerators. According to Vox, this too
has been feminized largely because women still do most of
the grocery shopping in this country. It's another piece of this.
All we women are supposed to be having the perfect
clean home is labor intensive. There's also the bad aspect
(20:54):
of it. Since women usually carry bags, they get the
joy of carrying all the reusable utensils, nap constrals, mason jars,
and tense. When it comes to this zero waste movement,
you can also find arguments out there that waste and
pollution impacts women more than men. That's interesting. Yeah, I think, um,
the whole no waste movement in doing all of that,
that's a lot of work. When I watch people talk
(21:17):
about how they have to do it and what they do,
it's a lot of thought process. And yeah, I'm lazy,
but I need to do better. I need to do better.
But I think it's gonna be a little while if
I can get to the no waste part of all
of that. Yeah, Um, I know, Joe keV on my
calendar on September six, be better well, because it's after tracking.
(21:46):
Got I'm not going to be better during bank and
I'm gonna be worse. I'm at my worst during racket Okay, okay,
all right, and I got you, I got you. Um.
But that's the topic I would love to return to
some day of um, waste and pollution impacting women more
than men? Um, Because there are there's a lot of
studies out there about that, and especially like when it
(22:10):
comes to fertility and breast cancer things like that. Anyway,
future episode we do have some more in this very
episode though, but first we have one more quick break
for word from our sponsor and we're back, thank you sponsor.
(22:38):
So um. On a grim note, according to some scientists,
we may only have eighteen months to do something about
climate change before it's the point of no return, before
it is too late. Um. So this is this is
an important conversation to be had right now. Even though
like we said at the top, really companies are the
(22:58):
ones we need. Yeah, but but the behaviors that we
have on individual level can influence things like that, because
if the individuals in that company are having these also
negative things and also capitalism and can't forget that, but
it does make a difference. One of the studies suggested
(23:18):
masculine friendly marketing around eco friendly products of behaviors, which
I guess if it helps, but oh my gosh. From
Scientific American eco friendly marketing messages and materials can be
designed to affirm men's masculinity and give them the confidence
to overcome their fear of being judged as feminine. When
(23:39):
engaging in green behaviors. For example, and one experiment, men
who receive feedback affirming their masculinity were more interested in
purchasing an eco friendly version of a cleaning product. Men
who feel secure in their manhood are more comfortable going green. Second,
green products and organizations can be marketed as more men
environmentally friendly. That was them, not me, that made me
(24:00):
want to vomit um with more masculine fonts colors, whereas
an images used in the branding to illustratement in one experiment,
were more likely to donate to a green nonprofit with
a masculine logo which black and dark blue colors featuring
a howling wolf with the name Wilderness Rangers and bold
font than one in a traditional logo. Green and light
(24:22):
tan colors featuring a tree with the name of Friends
of Nature and a frilly font make the man feel manly,
and he's more likely to go green. I don't we've
got the solution is helping. I also have seen ads
lately come my way on this very show about like um.
(24:45):
They're trying to turn cleaning into a masculine thing so
women feel better about doing it. This is missing the
whole point but it is like a reverse psychology type
of It's like women, we know that it takes a
real tough person to cleaning the house. That's women doing
most of that work. So you're super tough. What is happening?
What is happening? Wow? Anyway, Um, these are these are
(25:10):
legit suggestions, just to drive that point home again, because
we do try to end on what can we do?
These are the suggestions we found, So make your marketing
more manly. Another suggestion is using more male figures and
ads about sustainability. I mean, we do have Bernie the
Bernie Brose. They listen to Bernie with his stuff about
global warming and overall sustainability. That's cool, right, We're already
(25:32):
a step up. Maybe all of this feels so we're
just making We're still saying it's worse to be effeminate
or gay, and so therefore we must change everything so
that men can feel comfortable. You know what, I love
empathy and just good kind humanity. Yeah, I like I
(25:57):
like a planet that's habitable. And I know there's been
a lot of talk about recycling, and they that recycling
is not the end all be all, but this all
these habits to just so much more than just recycling,
like not even bringing a canvas bag. Um and Stephen
Colbert after this study came out, he ran with this
(26:20):
the earth maybe boiling and broiling to a crisp But
according to a new study, men don't recycle to avoid
looking gay. Really, really, man, is there no limit to
straight male fragility? This isn't just to toxic masculiney. This
is literally toxic. And as a rugged heterosexual man, I
feel responsible to convince my fellow harry chested man men
like caring for the earth is butch as hell? Oh
(26:44):
my god, you know what, this doesn't remind me a
little of um, the Parks and rec episode with the
lawn versus Ron. I feel like that's an interesting because
I kept thinking about that, about the dudes who are
like the Ron Swanson type dudes who who live off
the earth and who make all their own stuff and
are always seen as supermanly. But I guess it's just
when it comes to carrying bags. Yeah, we we need
(27:07):
to get rid of we need to recycle these outdated
gender attitudes and just move forward. On to move forward. Yeah,
let's not assign things with gender as gender about that? Yeah,
um so that's where will we'll stop for this episode.
(27:29):
UM we do wanna um do an episode around eco feminism.
That's something that's been I've been excited to talk about
for a while. So if you have anything about that,
please right in. We're planning on bringing back listener mail soon.
So get those are we yes? Yes, no, it's exciting.
Get those letters coming. You can emails at Steff Media,
mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find
(27:51):
us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram
at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks it's always to
our super producer Andrew Howard, who recycles yes, and thanks
to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You his
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff works. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio is the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,
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