June 21, 2025 • 46 mins
After somewhat of a second public coming out, Anney offers some basics about asexuality, and discusses some of the biggest misconceptions around it in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome stuff. Whe
ever told your production of iHeartRadio, and since it's Pride Month,
we have to keep up with our tradition of bringing
back a classic of me talking about being asexual. I've
(00:29):
rerun most of them already. We try not to rerun
classics twice, but it does happen, sometimes by accident, sometimes purposely.
But we have not brought this one back yet. This
was actually from last year, and it was after our
book came out, and I was talking about how I
felt like I had kind of a second coming out
after the book came out, and the strangeness of coming
(00:53):
out publicly like that because I hadn't told my mom
like it was just and all of you listeners have
been so great. You've been so gracious, Samantha, You've been wonderful.
My mom was wonderful when I told told her about it.
But now I've gotten Now, I feel like I've entered
(01:14):
another stage where I'm more willing to say it. If
a stranger's around, which is kind of risky. It feels
kind of risky at least, but I mean usually it's
somebody that I'm at least I feel like they're good.
And as we've said, even in the LGBTQ plus community,
(01:36):
you can't know for sure. But I have said it
kind of more casually in conversation recently, and I've even
said it where I was at a restaurant recently with
my mom and I was talking about it, and the
waiters were definitely like right there listening. They didn't say anything,
they were very nice. So I was just like, oh, I, yes,
(01:58):
I will have this. I shall go about my conversation
because it's even though my mom knows, it's still kind
of hard to talk to her openly about it. And
she's never made me feel uncomfortable about it or anything
like that. It's just I just don't talk about it.
So I've entered a new stage since this one. I'm
(02:20):
still and I actually really resonated with something Raquel said
and the recent episode we did with her, which if
you haven't heard, go listen to it. She's always amazing
for She was talking about age and kind of queer
communities and how it's a little different, and I do
sort of feel that way because I feel like I'm
doing all this growth in this area, so I feel
(02:43):
a little young in that way where I'm still like, oh,
let's try maybe today I'll talk about it in a
public space like our restaurants. Oh, even though I talk
about it on a public podcast all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But I don't feel public all the time.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It doesn't feel public. And it also feels like the
people who are here get it right. Yeah, unless someone
stumbles upon this somehow, and I just don't think if
they read the the description is possible. But anyway, please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is and Samantha. I'm
(03:28):
not going to stuff I never told you a production
of iHeartRadio, and today we are going to be doing
kind of an update on my experience of being a
sexual and being out as being a sexual or ace
(03:50):
because I always forget. October is LGBTQ plus history month,
so I knew June was Pride month. But when I
was in college, I was in Atlanta. This was still
when I was communiting from De Lanica, which is like
an hour away, and I ended up accidentally in the
Pride parade in October and I didn't know what was
(04:12):
going on because I thought June was Pride month. And
that's when that happened, and I got all of this
glitter on my car and all of these feathers on
my car, and it was actually a lovely experience, but
I was so confused. I've learned a lot since then.
I've come a long way.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I mean, I'm with you because I again not growing
up in like very queer community understanding is. In fact,
I was in a pretty anti queer community until I
was out of college. But like, I didn't realize it either,
and I thought it was always October because when I
was like, when I finally like understood what's going on,
all the celebrations that I went to was in October,
(04:48):
including the Pride Parade, and I was like, oh, And
then learning that, I was like, wait, no, this is
not actually Pride Month.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
What's that? What what's happening?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So I had the opposite, Oh that's fun. Well we've
both come al then come a long way, baby, we.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Have.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So this one is going to be a lot of
me talking, which is good because Samantha is still recovering
from COVID so you get to hear me talk a lot.
I might cry a little, I don't know. Speaking of content.
Warning for discussions of rape, sexual assault, ableism, and suicidality.
We're not going to go too in depth into anything,
but some of it's pretty I would say it was
(05:29):
pretty triggering, and I do want to put this at
the top. I sort of hate that this happens, but
it does. We're talking about ACE stuff in here, but
all queer people face similar things. This is not to
detract attention from or say that it doesn't happen to
other people. It's it does. It absolutely does, and we
(05:52):
should talk about that. But for this I am talking
about my kind of personal experience. So yeah, yes, it
is LGBTQ plus History month, and October also has National
Coming Out Day and ACE Awareness Week, which is the
last week of October. It was first started in October
twenty ten, and I wanted to do a bit of
(06:14):
an update on my experience since coming out on this podcast. Honestly,
that's where I happened. But because the book has come
out and I came out and there, I sort of
feel like I came out again and it's been a
difficult for me. I have gotten a lot of support,
(06:36):
I will say that, but I've definitely gotten a lot
of what I talked about in the book, which is
a lot of like mocking and dismissing, and I've also
gotten a lot of questions about it people who are
legitimately curious. So I thought I would just go over
some basics here first of all, like we're going to
go over this, but I identify as asexual bi romantic. There
(06:59):
are you have your sexual orientation and then there's the
romantic orientation. I think a lot of people don't know that,
so they get confused. Recently, Lauren and I did Lauren
stepped in and did an episode while Samantha was on
vacation and Lauren and I were in a box e
Lost Vega's Interesting Box talking about X files. When people
(07:22):
arete in and they were confused because they're like, you
were attracted to Scullion Molder, but you're asexual. I can
feel attraction. It doesn't have to be sexual, especially for
fictional characters, especially if I like have an emotional if
there's something about them that I emotionally relate to or
connect to, then I feel the attraction. It's usually not
(07:43):
sexual most of the time. Like if in my fantasies
of fantasies, I would like hug Luke Skywalker, like that
is what happens. It's not sex but she.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Just wants to cuddle them.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay, I want to cuddle and maybe kiss. That's it.
That's that's all. I'm blushing just the hear about it.
So I get that. It's I'm not like trying to
make anybody feel bad because I didn't know this until
I was on the show. I've told that stories several times,
so I get I totally get it. So let us
(08:14):
go over some basics. So from see you and why
I'm assuming that you say the letters, I don't know.
Here's a quote. Asexuality has been defined as a sexual
orientation characterized by persistent lack of sexual attraction to any gender.
It is often called the invisible orientation, and while the
(08:36):
current estimate is that about one percent of the population
is ACE, some think that's on the low end because
people either don't know about it or they don't feel
comfortable labeling themselves that way for one reason or another.
From the James Madison University, The asexuality spectrum or ACE
umbrella is also complicated. The ACE umbrella covers many different
(08:57):
types and degrees of sexuality. There are three three most
common subsections of asexuality demisexual, gray sexual, and asexual. The
simplest of the three is asexual, which means that one
is not sexually attracted to people. Demisexual is similar to asexual,
and that demisexuals are not sexually attracted to people until
a deep emotional connection is formed. Gray Asexuals, on the
(09:20):
other hand, experience sexual attraction very irregularly, sometimes with years
in between occurrences. It is also worth mentioning that some
asexuals are willing to have sex in order to please
or become closer to their partners, and these individuals are
referred to as sex favorable. Others are unwilling to have
sex or are disturbed by it and are referred to
(09:40):
as sex repulsed. And I know we've talked about this
before in other episodes about asexuality allosexuals or alos or
people who experience sexual attraction. So I think this is
important here where people get confused, and I've probably not
communicated it well. When I say I'm attracted to people,
usually what I do mean is the cuddling and kissing part.
Don't mean like the the sex card. So some people
(10:04):
have written in and so that it sounds like you're dimisexual,
but it's not. I wouldn't call it a sexual traction.
It is a physical attraction. I'm like, oh, pretty, I
would like to hold close now please. But it's not
like a sexual I.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Think you're like an alien. You speak, so we're gonna
I would like to touch that, please, We're.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Gonna talk about that. I'm playing into the Stereotypeoo. So
here's a quote from Growth think Tank. Asexuality is a
spectrum which means that all asexual people and their experience
of asexuality are different, and that it affects people of
all ages, genders, and backgrounds. For example, some asexual people,
the sex positives, may have sex without it necessarily giving
(10:47):
them pleasure or constituting a need to have a child,
out of curiosity to please the partner, a bit like
eating without being hungry. Some asexual people consider themselves to
have a libido, but is not directed towards a particular partner.
They are called sex positive. Others reject sex, identifying themselves
as sex repulsed. Finally, some people feel only indifferent to sex,
(11:09):
the sex neutral or sex and different. Most asexuals experience
romantic attraction to others and may therefore be in a
relationship a romantic asexuals, on the other hand, have no
desire to have sex and no desire to be in
a relationship. Finally, some asexuals have never had sexual desire
or relationships, while others have had sexual desire and then
(11:30):
identified themselves as a sexual lader. In life, asexual people
are often referred to as ace and a romantic people
as arrow. The Ace of Spades has thus become one
of the symbols of the asexual community, as has cake,
in reference to the phrase cake is better than sex.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, if I knew that one.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I thought about getting that flag putting it up.
But I don't like cake that much. So it's sort
of like if it was, like, why you.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Don't even like that?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
No, sure, I guess. But oysters, Oh my gosh, Samantha
and I are going to get oysters later. I'm so excited.
So going back to the James Madison University, here's another quote.
(12:24):
Two major misconceptions are that asexuals are celibate and that
asexuality is a choice. This is equivalent to saying being
straight are gay as decision. Someone makes The misconception that
asexuality is a choice belittles those who identify on the
asexuality spectrum. Another common misconception is that asexuals cannot fall
in love. This misconception is a result of people confusing
(12:46):
or failing to understand the difference between romantic orientation and
sexual orientation. Lastly, one of the most damaging and harmful
misconceptions about asexuality is that asexual people are simply confused
and inexperienced, and they will change their lines once they've
had sexual experiences. Not only does the viewpoint dismiss a sexuality,
but it also perpetuates rape culture and corrective rape yes misconceptions. Aside,
(13:12):
there is even more active and voluntary discrimination against those
who identify on the asexual spectrum. Many people do not
see asexual people as humans because people believe that sexual
desire is a fundamental part of human nature. In actuality,
asexual people are judged, insulted, and in some cases assaulted
because of their sexual identity. Heartbreakingly, a marriage can legally
(13:32):
be terminated if a perfectly happy and loving couple does
not have sex, and, as surprising as it seems, couples
in which one or both partners are asexual can be
denied adoption rights even if they are not a same
sex couple. Asexuals can also be denied housing and jobs
because of their sexual orientation. Much like the rest of
the LGBTQ plus community, the asexual community is also subject
(13:53):
to mockery for their sexual identity. And then here's something
specific to the medical community. Quote. All of this is
heart wrenching, but there are still worse forms of discrimination
that asexuals face. Discrimination by healthcare professionals is not uncommon.
Many professionals believe that asexuality is a mental disorder, are
(14:15):
a symptom of an illness, mental or physical. Others have
been prescribed corrective therapies such as hormone supplements, and instructed quote,
to have sex until they like it. One example a
lot of people pointed out was the case of Julie Decker.
So here's a quote about that. Julie Decker was subjected
to this fate by a friend of hers and her
(14:35):
statement to hupost, she disclosed that her friend knew she
identified as asexual, even so he looked her face and said,
I just want to help you. Decker went on to
receive comments to her story like I could turn sexual,
just give me an hour, and you are autistic. You
are broken. She has even received rape and death threats
such as, man, I want this chick to get raped,
(14:57):
please die of aids. Thanks, I'm going to rape this
one and show her the joys of orgasm. Just kill
yourself please in a very painful way. And asexuals are
just people who haven't been raped hard are often enough
these anonymous comments and a powerful message about what is
valued in terms of sex and sexuality. And then here's
another quote from that huff Post article. Asexuality is not
(15:19):
a thing. You're just ugly and no one wanted to
date you, so you made up a thing to cuddle
your lonely self after you cry into your pillow. Also,
I hope you get raped. It has a dual benefit.
You'll get laid finally and put into your place as well.
So so there are some I laugh because I want
to cry. There are some specific types of abuse that
(15:42):
were outlined. Again, these are not specifically unique to asexual people,
but they are in this case things that a sexual
people face a lot. This is Trumwomen's Law dot org
saying there is something wrong with a victim, or that
the victim is broken because they are asexual. Telling a
victim that something is wrong with their body and that
is why they are a sexual. Oh, and I should
(16:03):
have specified these are all about sexual assault victims who
are asexual. Mocking the victim's body or making the victim
feel bad about their body, responding or not responding to
sexual acts, touching the victim's body without permission or in
or in a way the abuser knows makes the victim uncomfortable.
Threatening the victim with rape or sexual assault to cure
the victims asexuality, telling the victim that they are a
(16:25):
sexual or are confused about being a sexual because no
one wants to have a relationship or sex with them.
Threatening to tell the victims friends, family, or coworkers about
their a sexuality without their permission, and stopping are forbidding
the victim from speaking to other asexual people talking about asexuality,
are attending in person or online support groups for asexual people.
(16:46):
And then here's a quote from Gallop. The little but
growing research that there is in this area has uncovered
strong bias against ace people relative to cis gender and
heterosexual people, and even to cis gender, lesbian, gay, bisexual people.
Asexual people were found to be the target of more prejudice, avoidance,
and discrimination. If all the sexual minorities studied as people
(17:08):
were the most dehumanized, viewed as machine like, cold and emotionless.
This demonstrates the need to address anti asexual bias and
that as people are at the risk of experiencing violence, abuse, discrimination,
And then they went on to say, here's some things
they found that people thought about asexual people. They are
(17:29):
less than human or against human nature. They are deficient
or broken, that it is a result of mental illness
or sexual abuse, have not just met the right person yet,
are confused or going through a phase, cannot experience love
and I have relationships. Are just proves that asexuality is
a choice rather than an orientation, don't face oppression and
(17:52):
are just damaging the LGBT plus cause. And I did
want to point out to you we're not really talking
about it here, but many people get discriminated against in
one way or another in the romantic spectrum, and especially
arrow people a romantic people. So just something to keep
in mind.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Actually, that's something that I've heard dismissed by people that
I know. I was kind of surprised and they're like
really open minded. I say, open minded is like they
would call themselves allies. And then having that whole rhetoric
which we had twenty years ago about bisexuality that it's
just it's made up, or that they can't decide so
(18:34):
they're just putting a label on it, which is interesting
in itself. I'm like, Wow, so this is that new
form where now bisexuality is getting more acceptance, still not
completely accepted. We know that there's a lot of discrimination bisexuality,
but it's a whole new kind of like, oh, it's
just one more thing they're adding to that spectrum, which
I found interesting. I was like, why does that bother you?
(18:56):
Has nothing to do with you?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
That's kind of my whole thing. All I'm like, I'm
essentially I stay in and read my friend section, Like
what am I doing?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Like she is a lovely person to be around all
the time. Like there's no like I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I have seen I've seen a lot against arrow
people prejudice because people are like that doesn't that's again
like against human nature.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It's such a weird vibe, Like it's not like I know,
it seems like there's a less of a problem when
you call like for people to call out their friends
who are rapist or like misogynists. Like I've seen that,
like when we have that conversation where people don't want
to believe that so many people could be someone who
would assault someone because I mean that that the likelihod
(19:43):
of the knowing somebody is so high that they don't
want to believe that. But like and so they're therefore
they accept that as a thing and being like, oh no,
we're gonna pretend like that doesn't think even though it
violates people, They're gonna they're gonna like not see that
and being like, oh no, not a problem, and then
see this as a problem. What it really is the
(20:03):
opposite of that, Like they're living their happy goal loocky lives.
I don't understand right why that's affecting you.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, and we did talk about this in our one
of our Ace or past Ace episodes. But I do
get especially with like men kind of being douchebags in
a lot of dating situations for women. Not I don't know,
but there is there has been a history of men
(20:34):
being like, oh, I don't want the emotional part. So
I think that's getting twisted up with people who are
truly arrow and I get that in terms of people
who have been burned by that before. But I think
that's part of the issue is there's no visibility and
when people say that, they are immediately dismissed. I'm not
(20:55):
saying there aren't bad players, because there absolutely are in asexuals,
a romantics, there are everywhere, but but.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
For people to dismiss a whole group of people in
the communities just because you don't like it or confuses you.
And it's not confusing. It's confusing when you think you
have one assumption of it and then you get corrected
and it's no longer confusing.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Like you learn your things.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's great. Like for me, I definitely had a misunderstanding
and coming through I was like, oh, cause I think
I called it. I said something to you like oh,
you're this right, and you're like, no, oh okay, I did,
and it took you a myth it to be like, no,
that's not quite what that is.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Like let's see, that's the thing is Like, like I said,
I didn't know either. It's fine to not know.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
But I didn't get offended by that. There's being wrong
doesn't mean that you have to fight it, Like, no,
I can't be wrong, so this doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
What right and I feel like a lot of this
does go back to what we've been talking about. What
we have talked about of the like if someone's upfront
with you and they say they're whatever orientation romantic or sexual,
and then later you're like, oh, really, Like if they
were upfront with you, then I don't. I don't feel
(22:06):
like you should feel that you are going to change
them or that they have betrayed you in some way,
or that they're lying, Like I don't, that's not I
was somebody who didn't know for a while and I
was in relationships and I didn't know. That's a different thing.
But like if somebody tells you no, if we're going
to be in this relationship, this is this is who
I am, this is how I feel, this is what
(22:28):
and then later you're like, oh really you what don't
do that?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean that's good for anything. And like you said
about relationship, because including like I don't want children, believe them.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yes, you can come back and have that conversation later.
People can change. But if somebody says something that you
shouldn't just be like, oh, I will change you. Right,
they can change on their own. Maybe you can change
on your own. Maybe and then you have that conversation again,
but you don't trying to change them or not believe
what they said. Right, So it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
That's not new when it doesn't fall, when it falls.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Apart exactly exactly. So we are going to go into
some disturbing comments right here because we're going to talk
about some asphobia stuff, which I learned there's like four
(23:27):
words for asphobia, but most people know is phobia. So
this is what we're going with. So one of the
big misconceptions is an asexual person can never really be raped.
That's not true. Here's a quote that BuzzFeed had in
an article about this. In the twenty fifteen a Sexual
Community Census, a volunteer run project, forty three point five
percent of nearly eight thousand asas surveyed reported having experienced
(23:49):
some form of sexual violence, including rape, assault, and corrosion,
and we know those are usually under reported. Here's another
quote from that. Coming out to strangers as a sexual
or even friends, family, and partners is no small thing.
People wrongly take it as an invitation to suggest you
haven't found the right person yet, ask invasive questions about
(24:10):
whether you've orgasmed and assert that they're the one who
can fix you, if only you'd wizen up and let
them try. One question in particular comes up often, especially
for those who have survived sexual violence. Are you asexual
because you were assaulted? Aces also fight the misconception that
they can't be assaulted because they're never in sexual scenarios.
(24:32):
To begin with, If you're not sexually attracted to people,
you're not in those situations to be sexually assaulted. So,
you know, are there even a sexual victims? Devin said,
parroting a generalization she's heard, which obviously there are. You
don't need to be in a sexual situation to be
a victim or a survivor. Plus, many aces do sometimes
pursue romance and sex.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Feel like people don't understand what sexual assault or well
what that is in general. To think that you have
to be in situation that's pursued to be sexy, like
to be.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
What it's bizarre. It feels like a very.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's just all men. Is this what men says? Because
I can't imagine.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I mean, I would guess, but I don't have the
numbers in front of me. But it feels a very
A lot of this is so hypocritical. And I'm going
to talk about that in a second, because it's like
we've heard the other side too, though, like you can't
have been raped because you were in a sexual situation.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Like right, none of does makes sense?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, it's it's basically just like you.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Can only be raped if you forcibly said no, and
they're like kidnapped you. Essentially, Yes, that's right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Does that makes sense? It doesn't. Here's here's a quote.
I found this pretty upsetting. This is for a medium.
In twenty twelve, I met my rapist, mister Epperson name
is for context later at an anime con sort of event.
He was a bisys gender allosexual man. He knew I
was a sexual and promised that we could go slow
if I agreed to date him. Seeing As this was
(26:08):
my first ever experience with a relationship and being autistic
and easily manipulated, I naively agreed to date him. He
predictably did not hold true to his promise and forced
me to become sexual with him early on in the
relationship by saying, well, how will I know you really
love me if you're not willing to make love to me.
He was very effective at discreetly threatening me with abandonment
(26:28):
and ostracism from the community, and more later were I
to ever say no to his advances. Some months into
the abusive relationship, I finally persuaded him to watch a
documentary on a sexuality in the hopes that he would
learn how uncomfortable I was with sex. He made multiple
comments on how effectively raping the male star would make
him give up a sexuality. He was a feminist, though,
(26:52):
so he never called what he did rape. He referred
to a sexuals featured as creepy freaks. He boasted about
how he had me and turned me into a normal
person by threatening me and guilting me into allowing him
to do what he wanted to me. He commented on
what a sad, empty life the male star must have,
not knowing the joy of having an epson dick inside
(27:13):
of him. He and his mother, a cis gender bisexual woman,
were laughing by the end of the documentary about the
freaks who need help. He later admitted that he targeted
me specifically because he was interested in curing a weirdo
like me. Yep, yep, and I've heard this stuff too.
(27:34):
It is very there's something broken with you. I can
fix it. And it's strange because we're not going to
go into it too in depth in here, but it's
it's all wrapped up in this idea that you must
in some way because our society is so strange around sex, right,
especially gay sex, that it's like you must be in
(27:58):
some way messed up. And for some people that can
be true, but that's a thing to assume and also
not something you should get. It's not your business, and
maybe it's not true at all, but in either case,
just know that's messed up. That's messed up. There's another
(28:27):
A common thing that comes up is kind of a
sexual person ever be discriminated against. Here is a quote.
Aces often talk about the idea of the unassailable asexual,
which is someone whose asexuality is begrudgingly accepted by the
mainstream because there's no other plausible reason for their disinterest
in sex. Someone who's white, cis neurotypical, not too old
(28:49):
or not too young, and with no disabilities and no
history of sexual trauma. If someone who could seemingly have
their pick of sexual partners abstains from sex, then they
must not have chosen this idea after all. Aces for
more marginalized backgrounds often have more difficulty finding acceptance, let
alone becoming public faces for the community and then from swaddle.
(29:11):
Asexuality shares a particular tumultuous relationship with queerness. Where queerness
has been defined by sex, expressing it, having it, and
most importantly, taking pride in it. Asexuality dissenters the primacy
of sex in our culture. So again, I think this
is We've talked about this in our past episodes, and
I've talked about this a lot with like feminism, because
I want women to not be shamed for having sex,
(29:33):
and having as much sex as they want is healthy,
consensual sex. But I also feel like there should be
a space for you know what, I don't want that,
and it's nothing being wrong with either. And then here's
another one. I've heard this one a lot. Isn't an
asexual person just someone no one wants to have sex with.
(29:53):
I've heard people say this about me.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You yeah, well you also put that point wrong where
the weird advances that happen they're like, why are you
doing this?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Well, it's so funny because they say that, they immediately
are like, I'll have sex with your.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
What immediately like disproving those like.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well, I also like I don't think we should be
proving worse this way.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, well mean that's that was the other part to
this is like when we talked about people saying, you know,
asexuals because they have too much trauma of that, first
of all, it's not just asexuals. Is everyone who has
trauma and they react to it differently. Everybody reacts to differently.
Someone becomes overly sexual, hypersexual is what we call it,
and we've seen that. I've seen that with a lot
of child uh sex abuse cases, like and that's a
(30:40):
big sign. Like all these different things are signs everywhere
that trauma affects sexuality in general, whether it goes for
one's part of the spectrum to the other. And it's
kind of like even if it is based on trauma,
if that's what part of their healing is, then let
it be. Like because I've said, you're right, I've heard
it for not only for a sexuals, but I've heard
(31:00):
it for like gay men again and then promiscuously women
and all these things, Like there's so many things like
it's because you've been traumatized me, Like you're probably not wrong,
but I'm also cisgender like sexual heterosexual person who was
also traumatized, Like it's a thing for everyone. It just
is I and you accept me the way I am,
(31:23):
even though I have trauma based on that as well,
Like there's so many things to that conversation. It's like, well,
if this is the reaction to trauma, which is not
the case, because obviously we all handle it differently, like
you and I are very much on different parts of
the spectrum going through civil trauma, right, so it's not
necessarily a reaction to trauma. Trauma just happens.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
To be there, right point blank. That's yes. And that
was a big realization for me because I did and
listeners you have heard me talk about this, because I
really struggled with that. I was like, maybe it could
be this or this or this, because I've been fed
that like my whole life, like here's your drugs you
can take to improve your libido, here's like all these
(32:04):
things you can do because this is wrong with you
and this It was a real revelation I had on
this show where people were like, you know what kind
of at the end of the day, doesn't matter, that's
how you identify, you feel comfortable with it. You feel good,
then that's it, and that's how that's how I feel exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And maybe coming to that realization is part of that
healing of like oh.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Honestly, yeah, because for a while I was I got
this so in my head like this is yes, something
must be wrong with me. But when I was finally
just like you know what, I feel comfortable, like this
feels right, then it was. It was a very settling
in myself moment. And here's a quote that kind of
relates to that from Victims Service Center of Central Florida.
(32:48):
Sometimes when someone experience the sexual violence, the construct of
sexual orientation is questioned. This is because society's norm is heterosexual.
When someone identifies as heterosexual, no one asks, how do
you really know if you are heterosexual? Or are you heterosexual?
Because you are sexually assaulted. I like to say that
for whatever reason you identify as ACE as valid, you
can still identify as ACE even if you think something
(33:10):
caused your lack of attraction. The reality is we will
never know. I believe I was born ACE, and I
am okay with that.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Thinking about that quote in itself is like we know
a lot of who people who are queer, but were
afraid to come out. Was because of the trauma of
being told that they can't be queer exactly, so they
tried to identify as heterosexual. But you're like, wait, but
are you It's because it's the trauma.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's really you know, like, let's see of it all.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
It's true. And I talked about that in the book.
I was so afraid to do it. I would like
have nightmares when I was in seventh grade, like I
will please don't let me be gay. God, I can't
handle it, Like it's heartbreaking. And speaking of here's another quote.
Fifty percent of a sexual people have already seriously thought
(34:00):
about suicide, and fourteen percent have made an attempt, according
to a twenty sixteen study. And here's something that kind
of resonated with me. This is a quote from Ace
and the whole My asexuality became dangerous while trying to
navigate my first adult relationship. One of the first few
people I came out to was my then partner, and
after his first reaction of dismissing me entirely, he became angry.
(34:23):
He said I had lied that it was akin to cheating.
It was the only time in our relationship that I
was afraid he would hit me. This anger from men
became an alarmingly common theme when I was single. I
struggled with disclosing in the early stages of meeting someone.
It was a deal breaker for a lot of men,
and I didn't want to waste their time. But I
also didn't know these men well. I didn't have the
(34:43):
confidence that they wouldn't attack me personally or physically for
a perceived challenge to their masculinity. Women are taught from
an early age to manage the egos of the men
in their lives, from fathers and husbands to co workers
and bosses. We are to keep the peace and avoid
rocking the boat asexuality. He disrupts that. Saying that you
aren't sexually attracted to anyone becomes a personal slight and
(35:04):
it reinforces fears that they aren't desirable, undermines the self
worth of a self conscious man, and ultimately challenges the
status and power in the society. As a woman. This
is a risky thing to do, so yeah, I mean,
it's like we've talked about that too, where you know,
we have to manage. You can't just say no, because
then men get mad, but then they are mad at
(35:25):
you because you didn't just say no, because you like
let them along, you tease them, you tease them. It's
a similar thing. Yeah, it's like unless I trust you enough,
and it's hard to tell people like, oh, hey, I'm asexual,
and I'm probably not gonna tell you the first time
I meet you. You're right.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
There was a whole incident with a woman saying no
to a person and then them getting mad and then
him hitting out with a brick. That just happened, and
people blame to her say that she's always going after
people anyway, so she probably deserved it, and like there
was evidence, clear evidence. And the dude came out and he
was like, yeah, I didn't like our attitude.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
You're telling me no.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Wow, they still don't believe ours.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Like her attitude? Who what? Wow? Yeah, so you wonder
why we are.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Right? We play along and we give you a fake number,
and the fake a boyfriend or husband, which doesn't.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Often they're like, oh I'm better than that guy, Oh
my gosh.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Or they don't let you have a friend, Nope, nope,
they let you out. Well, okay, ran away.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Another thing that we've been talking about throughout this is
this whole idea, like, yes, you have to change, you
have to change the drugs I talked about, Like you
have the magazines that say to have sex two or
three times to be fulfilled. It's just like kind of
constant barrage of this is what it is. This is
if that's not what's going on for you. And that's
(37:10):
even for people who might not be a sexual just
not have much of a libido, like still telling you
something's wrong, trying to sell you this medication. How do
you know if you've never tried. And I kind of
hate this because this. I have had sex I didn't want.
I've never had sex I enjoyed, but I did it
(37:31):
because of this, and I also like I hate that.
But I also a lot of times I don't think
it ever clarified this because I've said I've done it
out of fear. Sometimes it's not fear of like abuse.
Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's a fear that if
I do it once, I'm such a people pleaser, I'll
(37:51):
be tracked in this and they'll expect it, and I
know that I'll do it, So it's almost like even
if I'm not necessarily afraid of like some kind of
physical abuse. I'm afraid that I will just do what
they want because that is more important than anything I
wouldn't eat or want.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I mean, we've talked about it many times where we
just try to get it over with quickly so that
we can get moved on and hope for the best
and then just never talk to.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Them again.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Again. I laugh because it's sad, I'm true, but yeah,
I mean essentially, and I just I've been in several
situations where I feel like I communicated that and I
wasn't really believed, and then it did turn into resentment
because I was like, if this happens once I'm afraid of,
it'll just be expected and then I I'll just do it.
(38:45):
So that's definitely something that resonated with me when I
was reading about it. I do as I said, I
think people get confused about the bi romantic that they
hear that I'm attracted to somebody, although they're almost always
fictional characters, and they're like, so you do want s Like, no, trash.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Is not the same thing we're trying to do many
people doesn't mean I want to have sex with them exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I can be like, oh, look, it looks so good
and that's it. That's it.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I just want to pet their face exactly head, oh,
give them a cookie literally, and like, like I said,
this is there's so much double standards in this because
I keep going back to this point of like, especially
with women, you can't be too sexual, but you better
(39:36):
want to have sex with a man when he wants
it when you're married.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And all of that's being said to a lot of
us who have been raised believing sexist taboo and you
don't talk about it and it's bad. And then it's
like yeah, but when you get married to a man
and then when he wants it to say okay. But
then I'm like I just don't want it, and they're like, no, wait,
(40:00):
that's wrong too. Have you heard that to consummate a
marriage and most religions you have to have sex.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
As well as that's your purpose.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, and you have to have kids or else what
are you even doing here? What you're not You're racing.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Our time, not traveling all over the world and just
enjoying your life.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Right, And to be clear, like that hurts. That narrative hurts,
like people who can't have kids and want them, but
also plenty of people who can have kids and don't
want them of all types. Another thing, being asexual is
not against the law most places, mostly because people don't
know what it is. But that means that as people
(40:40):
who are seeking asylum are not included under the LGBTT
plus applicants for the status of course saying that it
is worth recognizing the other side too, because being trans
or homosexual is punishable and against the law in several places,
so just to keep that in mind. In the UK,
it is still recognized as a matter disorder, meaning ACE
(41:01):
people are ten percent more likely to get pushed to
get conversion therapy, and it is not recognized under the
twenty ten Sexual Orientation Equality Act. New York's Sexual Orientation
Non Discrimination Act of two thousand and three is one
of the only pieces of legislation that mentions asexual people.
The American Psychiatric Association recognize a sexuality as a sexual
orientation in twenty thirteen. Here's another quote I want to
(41:24):
include from Growth think Tank because I've heard this a
lot too. It should be remembered that asexuality is not
a puritanical or religious movement seeking to advocate abstinence. It
has nothing to do with morals or ethics, since it
is neither a choice nor an opinion. Asexual people are
not against sex, nor do they want to prevent anyone
from having sex. Yeah, safe consensual sex, go for it.
(41:48):
Of all about it. Also, a lot of comments people
will say are if you're talking about it, means you're
uncomfortable with it, which I think is ridiculous. And then
here's my final quote. Asexuality is a sexual orientation that
is different from heterosexuality. Heteros are both heterosexual and heteromantic.
Asexuals can be cisgender, hetero romantic, and asexual, as well
(42:08):
as transgender, homo romantic, and asexual. The inclusion of the
asexual persons in the lgbtqiplus community therefore does not mean
the inclusion of cis gender and heterosexual persons. There is
also a myth of the cis gender and heteroasexuals claiming
to be asexual in order to infiltrate the lgbtqiplus community.
This reminds us of the terf discourse asserting that transgender
(42:30):
women or men disguised as women to integrate from this movement.
So this was in kind of going back to something
you said earlier, but this was in relation to a
lot of kind of conspiracy theories that asexuality is just
invented by straight people to get into queer spaces. Yeah yeah,
(42:53):
I mean, And that's the thing, as you said that,
like bisexual people did and still face that in the
queer community, the trans people didn't still face that too.
So I feel like there's been progress. And like I said,
this isn't about comparing hardships, because we already know that
(43:16):
pitting marginalized people against each other only helps those that
are pressing us. I think it is important to recognize intersections.
I think it's important to keep context in mind. But
I feel like a lot of times it kind of
breaks my heart because this conversation. A lot of conversations
like this devolve into well you're not really queer, or
(43:38):
well you're taking up space, or well why are we
talking about this? One should be talking about this, So
I'm not about that. I feel like there's room to
talk about all of this, and we should talk about
all of this, right.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I think that's the thing is like I hate that
you even have to acknowledge or put that as a caveat,
because you should be able to talk about your identity
and what you are going through and understanding the differences
and why it's important to talk about these precise labels
and or identifications.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
And I don't think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Like it's odd if someone who is in the marginalized
communities like, but but it doesn't obtain to me, so
I don't it's not important. Again, this is kind of
that narrative of weere like, hmm, this is why intersectionality
is important, and that when we say intersectional, we mean
room for everyone, and that we should hold space for
(44:32):
everyone and to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, and we've talked about that a lot, Like this
idea of like there's not enough space. That's such a
that's just maintaining the status quo of like keeping marginalized
people in the margins, like there's space to talk about
this and everything else. So yeah, and I do think
it affects everyone in the queer community and not all
(44:56):
of this stuff. So thank you for going on my
crash course. I'm still learning to thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, I learned new things today.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm like, wow, Okay, yeah, I'm still learning too. I'm
still learning too, Honestly, a lot of the like questions
I've gotten have legitimately been really genuinely curious, like they
want to know, and I appreciate that. So hopefully this helps.
Hopefully this helps, and I really appreciate all of the
support I've gotten from you, Samantha, and from listeners and
(45:27):
all lot. So yeah, if you have any thoughts about this,
I know some of you have reached out about resources.
If you want any resources, I can send those to you,
or if you have resources, you can send those to me.
You can email us at stuff that your mom Stuff
at ihurtmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff I Never told you. We have a tea public
(45:48):
store and a book where, yes I do talk about this.
You can get it at stuff you should read Books
dot com or wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christina, executive producer Maya, and
our contributor Joey. Thank you, I love the accent. Thanks
to you for listening. Stefan never told me the restriction
of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the Heart Are you app Apple podcasts,
(46:09):
or where you listen to your favorite ships.
Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome stuff. Whe
ever told your production of iHeartRadio, and since it's Pride Month,
we have to keep up with our tradition of bringing
back a classic of me talking about being asexual. I've
(00:29):
rerun most of them already. We try not to rerun
classics twice, but it does happen, sometimes by accident, sometimes purposely.
But we have not brought this one back yet. This
was actually from last year, and it was after our
book came out, and I was talking about how I
felt like I had kind of a second coming out
after the book came out, and the strangeness of coming
(00:53):
out publicly like that because I hadn't told my mom
like it was just and all of you listeners have
been so great. You've been so gracious, Samantha, You've been wonderful.
My mom was wonderful when I told told her about it.
But now I've gotten Now, I feel like I've entered
(01:14):
another stage where I'm more willing to say it. If
a stranger's around, which is kind of risky. It feels
kind of risky at least, but I mean usually it's
somebody that I'm at least I feel like they're good.
And as we've said, even in the LGBTQ plus community,
(01:36):
you can't know for sure. But I have said it
kind of more casually in conversation recently, and I've even
said it where I was at a restaurant recently with
my mom and I was talking about it, and the
waiters were definitely like right there listening. They didn't say anything,
they were very nice. So I was just like, oh, I, yes,
(01:58):
I will have this. I shall go about my conversation
because it's even though my mom knows, it's still kind
of hard to talk to her openly about it. And
she's never made me feel uncomfortable about it or anything
like that. It's just I just don't talk about it.
So I've entered a new stage since this one. I'm
(02:20):
still and I actually really resonated with something Raquel said
and the recent episode we did with her, which if
you haven't heard, go listen to it. She's always amazing
for She was talking about age and kind of queer
communities and how it's a little different, and I do
sort of feel that way because I feel like I'm
doing all this growth in this area, so I feel
(02:43):
a little young in that way where I'm still like, oh,
let's try maybe today I'll talk about it in a
public space like our restaurants. Oh, even though I talk
about it on a public podcast all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But I don't feel public all the time.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It doesn't feel public. And it also feels like the
people who are here get it right. Yeah, unless someone
stumbles upon this somehow, and I just don't think if
they read the the description is possible. But anyway, please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is and Samantha. I'm
(03:28):
not going to stuff I never told you a production
of iHeartRadio, and today we are going to be doing
kind of an update on my experience of being a
sexual and being out as being a sexual or ace
(03:50):
because I always forget. October is LGBTQ plus history month,
so I knew June was Pride month. But when I
was in college, I was in Atlanta. This was still
when I was communiting from De Lanica, which is like
an hour away, and I ended up accidentally in the
Pride parade in October and I didn't know what was
(04:12):
going on because I thought June was Pride month. And
that's when that happened, and I got all of this
glitter on my car and all of these feathers on
my car, and it was actually a lovely experience, but
I was so confused. I've learned a lot since then.
I've come a long way.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I mean, I'm with you because I again not growing
up in like very queer community understanding is. In fact,
I was in a pretty anti queer community until I
was out of college. But like, I didn't realize it either,
and I thought it was always October because when I
was like, when I finally like understood what's going on,
all the celebrations that I went to was in October,
(04:48):
including the Pride Parade, and I was like, oh, And
then learning that, I was like, wait, no, this is
not actually Pride Month.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
What's that? What what's happening?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So I had the opposite, Oh that's fun. Well we've
both come al then come a long way, baby, we.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Have.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So this one is going to be a lot of
me talking, which is good because Samantha is still recovering
from COVID so you get to hear me talk a lot.
I might cry a little, I don't know. Speaking of content.
Warning for discussions of rape, sexual assault, ableism, and suicidality.
We're not going to go too in depth into anything,
but some of it's pretty I would say it was
(05:29):
pretty triggering, and I do want to put this at
the top. I sort of hate that this happens, but
it does. We're talking about ACE stuff in here, but
all queer people face similar things. This is not to
detract attention from or say that it doesn't happen to
other people. It's it does. It absolutely does, and we
(05:52):
should talk about that. But for this I am talking
about my kind of personal experience. So yeah, yes, it
is LGBTQ plus History month, and October also has National
Coming Out Day and ACE Awareness Week, which is the
last week of October. It was first started in October
twenty ten, and I wanted to do a bit of
(06:14):
an update on my experience since coming out on this podcast. Honestly,
that's where I happened. But because the book has come
out and I came out and there, I sort of
feel like I came out again and it's been a
difficult for me. I have gotten a lot of support,
(06:36):
I will say that, but I've definitely gotten a lot
of what I talked about in the book, which is
a lot of like mocking and dismissing, and I've also
gotten a lot of questions about it people who are
legitimately curious. So I thought I would just go over
some basics here first of all, like we're going to
go over this, but I identify as asexual bi romantic. There
(06:59):
are you have your sexual orientation and then there's the
romantic orientation. I think a lot of people don't know that,
so they get confused. Recently, Lauren and I did Lauren
stepped in and did an episode while Samantha was on
vacation and Lauren and I were in a box e
Lost Vega's Interesting Box talking about X files. When people
(07:22):
arete in and they were confused because they're like, you
were attracted to Scullion Molder, but you're asexual. I can
feel attraction. It doesn't have to be sexual, especially for
fictional characters, especially if I like have an emotional if
there's something about them that I emotionally relate to or
connect to, then I feel the attraction. It's usually not
(07:43):
sexual most of the time. Like if in my fantasies
of fantasies, I would like hug Luke Skywalker, like that
is what happens. It's not sex but she.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Just wants to cuddle them.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay, I want to cuddle and maybe kiss. That's it.
That's that's all. I'm blushing just the hear about it.
So I get that. It's I'm not like trying to
make anybody feel bad because I didn't know this until
I was on the show. I've told that stories several times,
so I get I totally get it. So let us
(08:14):
go over some basics. So from see you and why
I'm assuming that you say the letters, I don't know.
Here's a quote. Asexuality has been defined as a sexual
orientation characterized by persistent lack of sexual attraction to any gender.
It is often called the invisible orientation, and while the
(08:36):
current estimate is that about one percent of the population
is ACE, some think that's on the low end because
people either don't know about it or they don't feel
comfortable labeling themselves that way for one reason or another.
From the James Madison University, The asexuality spectrum or ACE
umbrella is also complicated. The ACE umbrella covers many different
(08:57):
types and degrees of sexuality. There are three three most
common subsections of asexuality demisexual, gray sexual, and asexual. The
simplest of the three is asexual, which means that one
is not sexually attracted to people. Demisexual is similar to asexual,
and that demisexuals are not sexually attracted to people until
a deep emotional connection is formed. Gray Asexuals, on the
(09:20):
other hand, experience sexual attraction very irregularly, sometimes with years
in between occurrences. It is also worth mentioning that some
asexuals are willing to have sex in order to please
or become closer to their partners, and these individuals are
referred to as sex favorable. Others are unwilling to have
sex or are disturbed by it and are referred to
(09:40):
as sex repulsed. And I know we've talked about this
before in other episodes about asexuality allosexuals or alos or
people who experience sexual attraction. So I think this is
important here where people get confused, and I've probably not
communicated it well. When I say I'm attracted to people,
usually what I do mean is the cuddling and kissing part.
Don't mean like the the sex card. So some people
(10:04):
have written in and so that it sounds like you're dimisexual,
but it's not. I wouldn't call it a sexual traction.
It is a physical attraction. I'm like, oh, pretty, I
would like to hold close now please. But it's not
like a sexual I.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Think you're like an alien. You speak, so we're gonna
I would like to touch that, please, We're.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Gonna talk about that. I'm playing into the Stereotypeoo. So
here's a quote from Growth think Tank. Asexuality is a
spectrum which means that all asexual people and their experience
of asexuality are different, and that it affects people of
all ages, genders, and backgrounds. For example, some asexual people,
the sex positives, may have sex without it necessarily giving
(10:47):
them pleasure or constituting a need to have a child,
out of curiosity to please the partner, a bit like
eating without being hungry. Some asexual people consider themselves to
have a libido, but is not directed towards a particular partner.
They are called sex positive. Others reject sex, identifying themselves
as sex repulsed. Finally, some people feel only indifferent to sex,
(11:09):
the sex neutral or sex and different. Most asexuals experience
romantic attraction to others and may therefore be in a
relationship a romantic asexuals, on the other hand, have no
desire to have sex and no desire to be in
a relationship. Finally, some asexuals have never had sexual desire
or relationships, while others have had sexual desire and then
(11:30):
identified themselves as a sexual lader. In life, asexual people
are often referred to as ace and a romantic people
as arrow. The Ace of Spades has thus become one
of the symbols of the asexual community, as has cake,
in reference to the phrase cake is better than sex.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, if I knew that one.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I thought about getting that flag putting it up.
But I don't like cake that much. So it's sort
of like if it was, like, why you.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Don't even like that?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
No, sure, I guess. But oysters, Oh my gosh, Samantha
and I are going to get oysters later. I'm so excited.
So going back to the James Madison University, here's another quote.
(12:24):
Two major misconceptions are that asexuals are celibate and that
asexuality is a choice. This is equivalent to saying being
straight are gay as decision. Someone makes The misconception that
asexuality is a choice belittles those who identify on the
asexuality spectrum. Another common misconception is that asexuals cannot fall
in love. This misconception is a result of people confusing
(12:46):
or failing to understand the difference between romantic orientation and
sexual orientation. Lastly, one of the most damaging and harmful
misconceptions about asexuality is that asexual people are simply confused
and inexperienced, and they will change their lines once they've
had sexual experiences. Not only does the viewpoint dismiss a sexuality,
but it also perpetuates rape culture and corrective rape yes misconceptions. Aside,
(13:12):
there is even more active and voluntary discrimination against those
who identify on the asexual spectrum. Many people do not
see asexual people as humans because people believe that sexual
desire is a fundamental part of human nature. In actuality,
asexual people are judged, insulted, and in some cases assaulted
because of their sexual identity. Heartbreakingly, a marriage can legally
(13:32):
be terminated if a perfectly happy and loving couple does
not have sex, and, as surprising as it seems, couples
in which one or both partners are asexual can be
denied adoption rights even if they are not a same
sex couple. Asexuals can also be denied housing and jobs
because of their sexual orientation. Much like the rest of
the LGBTQ plus community, the asexual community is also subject
(13:53):
to mockery for their sexual identity. And then here's something
specific to the medical community. Quote. All of this is
heart wrenching, but there are still worse forms of discrimination
that asexuals face. Discrimination by healthcare professionals is not uncommon.
Many professionals believe that asexuality is a mental disorder, are
(14:15):
a symptom of an illness, mental or physical. Others have
been prescribed corrective therapies such as hormone supplements, and instructed quote,
to have sex until they like it. One example a
lot of people pointed out was the case of Julie Decker.
So here's a quote about that. Julie Decker was subjected
to this fate by a friend of hers and her
(14:35):
statement to hupost, she disclosed that her friend knew she
identified as asexual, even so he looked her face and said,
I just want to help you. Decker went on to
receive comments to her story like I could turn sexual,
just give me an hour, and you are autistic. You
are broken. She has even received rape and death threats
such as, man, I want this chick to get raped,
(14:57):
please die of aids. Thanks, I'm going to rape this
one and show her the joys of orgasm. Just kill
yourself please in a very painful way. And asexuals are
just people who haven't been raped hard are often enough
these anonymous comments and a powerful message about what is
valued in terms of sex and sexuality. And then here's
another quote from that huff Post article. Asexuality is not
(15:19):
a thing. You're just ugly and no one wanted to
date you, so you made up a thing to cuddle
your lonely self after you cry into your pillow. Also,
I hope you get raped. It has a dual benefit.
You'll get laid finally and put into your place as well.
So so there are some I laugh because I want
to cry. There are some specific types of abuse that
(15:42):
were outlined. Again, these are not specifically unique to asexual people,
but they are in this case things that a sexual
people face a lot. This is Trumwomen's Law dot org
saying there is something wrong with a victim, or that
the victim is broken because they are asexual. Telling a
victim that something is wrong with their body and that
is why they are a sexual. Oh, and I should
(16:03):
have specified these are all about sexual assault victims who
are asexual. Mocking the victim's body or making the victim
feel bad about their body, responding or not responding to
sexual acts, touching the victim's body without permission or in
or in a way the abuser knows makes the victim uncomfortable.
Threatening the victim with rape or sexual assault to cure
the victims asexuality, telling the victim that they are a
(16:25):
sexual or are confused about being a sexual because no
one wants to have a relationship or sex with them.
Threatening to tell the victims friends, family, or coworkers about
their a sexuality without their permission, and stopping are forbidding
the victim from speaking to other asexual people talking about asexuality,
are attending in person or online support groups for asexual people.
(16:46):
And then here's a quote from Gallop. The little but
growing research that there is in this area has uncovered
strong bias against ace people relative to cis gender and
heterosexual people, and even to cis gender, lesbian, gay, bisexual people.
Asexual people were found to be the target of more prejudice, avoidance,
and discrimination. If all the sexual minorities studied as people
(17:08):
were the most dehumanized, viewed as machine like, cold and emotionless.
This demonstrates the need to address anti asexual bias and
that as people are at the risk of experiencing violence, abuse, discrimination,
And then they went on to say, here's some things
they found that people thought about asexual people. They are
(17:29):
less than human or against human nature. They are deficient
or broken, that it is a result of mental illness
or sexual abuse, have not just met the right person yet,
are confused or going through a phase, cannot experience love
and I have relationships. Are just proves that asexuality is
a choice rather than an orientation, don't face oppression and
(17:52):
are just damaging the LGBT plus cause. And I did
want to point out to you we're not really talking
about it here, but many people get discriminated against in
one way or another in the romantic spectrum, and especially
arrow people a romantic people. So just something to keep
in mind.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Actually, that's something that I've heard dismissed by people that
I know. I was kind of surprised and they're like
really open minded. I say, open minded is like they
would call themselves allies. And then having that whole rhetoric
which we had twenty years ago about bisexuality that it's
just it's made up, or that they can't decide so
(18:34):
they're just putting a label on it, which is interesting
in itself. I'm like, Wow, so this is that new
form where now bisexuality is getting more acceptance, still not
completely accepted. We know that there's a lot of discrimination bisexuality,
but it's a whole new kind of like, oh, it's
just one more thing they're adding to that spectrum, which
I found interesting. I was like, why does that bother you?
(18:56):
Has nothing to do with you?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
That's kind of my whole thing. All I'm like, I'm
essentially I stay in and read my friend section, Like
what am I doing?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Like she is a lovely person to be around all
the time. Like there's no like I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I have seen I've seen a lot against arrow
people prejudice because people are like that doesn't that's again
like against human nature.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It's such a weird vibe, Like it's not like I know,
it seems like there's a less of a problem when
you call like for people to call out their friends
who are rapist or like misogynists. Like I've seen that,
like when we have that conversation where people don't want
to believe that so many people could be someone who
would assault someone because I mean that that the likelihod
(19:43):
of the knowing somebody is so high that they don't
want to believe that. But like and so they're therefore
they accept that as a thing and being like, oh no,
we're gonna pretend like that doesn't think even though it
violates people, They're gonna they're gonna like not see that
and being like, oh no, not a problem, and then
see this as a problem. What it really is the
(20:03):
opposite of that, Like they're living their happy goal loocky lives.
I don't understand right why that's affecting you.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, and we did talk about this in our one
of our Ace or past Ace episodes. But I do
get especially with like men kind of being douchebags in
a lot of dating situations for women. Not I don't know,
but there is there has been a history of men
(20:34):
being like, oh, I don't want the emotional part. So
I think that's getting twisted up with people who are
truly arrow and I get that in terms of people
who have been burned by that before. But I think
that's part of the issue is there's no visibility and
when people say that, they are immediately dismissed. I'm not
(20:55):
saying there aren't bad players, because there absolutely are in asexuals,
a romantics, there are everywhere, but but.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
For people to dismiss a whole group of people in
the communities just because you don't like it or confuses you.
And it's not confusing. It's confusing when you think you
have one assumption of it and then you get corrected
and it's no longer confusing.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Like you learn your things.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's great. Like for me, I definitely had a misunderstanding
and coming through I was like, oh, cause I think
I called it. I said something to you like oh,
you're this right, and you're like, no, oh okay, I did,
and it took you a myth it to be like, no,
that's not quite what that is.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Like let's see, that's the thing is Like, like I said,
I didn't know either. It's fine to not know.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
But I didn't get offended by that. There's being wrong
doesn't mean that you have to fight it, Like, no,
I can't be wrong, so this doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
What right and I feel like a lot of this
does go back to what we've been talking about. What
we have talked about of the like if someone's upfront
with you and they say they're whatever orientation romantic or sexual,
and then later you're like, oh, really, Like if they
were upfront with you, then I don't. I don't feel
(22:06):
like you should feel that you are going to change
them or that they have betrayed you in some way,
or that they're lying, Like I don't, that's not I
was somebody who didn't know for a while and I
was in relationships and I didn't know. That's a different thing.
But like if somebody tells you no, if we're going
to be in this relationship, this is this is who
I am, this is how I feel, this is what
(22:28):
and then later you're like, oh really you what don't
do that?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean that's good for anything. And like you said
about relationship, because including like I don't want children, believe them.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yes, you can come back and have that conversation later.
People can change. But if somebody says something that you
shouldn't just be like, oh, I will change you. Right,
they can change on their own. Maybe you can change
on your own. Maybe and then you have that conversation again,
but you don't trying to change them or not believe
what they said. Right, So it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
That's not new when it doesn't fall, when it falls.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Apart exactly exactly. So we are going to go into
some disturbing comments right here because we're going to talk
about some asphobia stuff, which I learned there's like four
(23:27):
words for asphobia, but most people know is phobia. So
this is what we're going with. So one of the
big misconceptions is an asexual person can never really be raped.
That's not true. Here's a quote that BuzzFeed had in
an article about this. In the twenty fifteen a Sexual
Community Census, a volunteer run project, forty three point five
percent of nearly eight thousand asas surveyed reported having experienced
(23:49):
some form of sexual violence, including rape, assault, and corrosion,
and we know those are usually under reported. Here's another
quote from that. Coming out to strangers as a sexual
or even friends, family, and partners is no small thing.
People wrongly take it as an invitation to suggest you
haven't found the right person yet, ask invasive questions about
(24:10):
whether you've orgasmed and assert that they're the one who
can fix you, if only you'd wizen up and let
them try. One question in particular comes up often, especially
for those who have survived sexual violence. Are you asexual
because you were assaulted? Aces also fight the misconception that
they can't be assaulted because they're never in sexual scenarios.
(24:32):
To begin with, If you're not sexually attracted to people,
you're not in those situations to be sexually assaulted. So,
you know, are there even a sexual victims? Devin said,
parroting a generalization she's heard, which obviously there are. You
don't need to be in a sexual situation to be
a victim or a survivor. Plus, many aces do sometimes
pursue romance and sex.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Feel like people don't understand what sexual assault or well
what that is in general. To think that you have
to be in situation that's pursued to be sexy, like
to be.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
What it's bizarre. It feels like a very.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's just all men. Is this what men says? Because
I can't imagine.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I mean, I would guess, but I don't have the
numbers in front of me. But it feels a very
A lot of this is so hypocritical. And I'm going
to talk about that in a second, because it's like
we've heard the other side too, though, like you can't
have been raped because you were in a sexual situation.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Like right, none of does makes sense?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, it's it's basically just like you.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Can only be raped if you forcibly said no, and
they're like kidnapped you. Essentially, Yes, that's right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Does that makes sense? It doesn't. Here's here's a quote.
I found this pretty upsetting. This is for a medium.
In twenty twelve, I met my rapist, mister Epperson name
is for context later at an anime con sort of event.
He was a bisys gender allosexual man. He knew I
was a sexual and promised that we could go slow
if I agreed to date him. Seeing As this was
(26:08):
my first ever experience with a relationship and being autistic
and easily manipulated, I naively agreed to date him. He
predictably did not hold true to his promise and forced
me to become sexual with him early on in the
relationship by saying, well, how will I know you really
love me if you're not willing to make love to me.
He was very effective at discreetly threatening me with abandonment
(26:28):
and ostracism from the community, and more later were I
to ever say no to his advances. Some months into
the abusive relationship, I finally persuaded him to watch a
documentary on a sexuality in the hopes that he would
learn how uncomfortable I was with sex. He made multiple
comments on how effectively raping the male star would make
him give up a sexuality. He was a feminist, though,
(26:52):
so he never called what he did rape. He referred
to a sexuals featured as creepy freaks. He boasted about
how he had me and turned me into a normal
person by threatening me and guilting me into allowing him
to do what he wanted to me. He commented on
what a sad, empty life the male star must have,
not knowing the joy of having an epson dick inside
(27:13):
of him. He and his mother, a cis gender bisexual woman,
were laughing by the end of the documentary about the
freaks who need help. He later admitted that he targeted
me specifically because he was interested in curing a weirdo
like me. Yep, yep, and I've heard this stuff too.
(27:34):
It is very there's something broken with you. I can
fix it. And it's strange because we're not going to
go into it too in depth in here, but it's
it's all wrapped up in this idea that you must
in some way because our society is so strange around sex, right,
especially gay sex, that it's like you must be in
(27:58):
some way messed up. And for some people that can
be true, but that's a thing to assume and also
not something you should get. It's not your business, and
maybe it's not true at all, but in either case,
just know that's messed up. That's messed up. There's another
(28:27):
A common thing that comes up is kind of a
sexual person ever be discriminated against. Here is a quote.
Aces often talk about the idea of the unassailable asexual,
which is someone whose asexuality is begrudgingly accepted by the
mainstream because there's no other plausible reason for their disinterest
in sex. Someone who's white, cis neurotypical, not too old
(28:49):
or not too young, and with no disabilities and no
history of sexual trauma. If someone who could seemingly have
their pick of sexual partners abstains from sex, then they
must not have chosen this idea after all. Aces for
more marginalized backgrounds often have more difficulty finding acceptance, let
alone becoming public faces for the community and then from swaddle.
(29:11):
Asexuality shares a particular tumultuous relationship with queerness. Where queerness
has been defined by sex, expressing it, having it, and
most importantly, taking pride in it. Asexuality dissenters the primacy
of sex in our culture. So again, I think this
is We've talked about this in our past episodes, and
I've talked about this a lot with like feminism, because
I want women to not be shamed for having sex,
(29:33):
and having as much sex as they want is healthy,
consensual sex. But I also feel like there should be
a space for you know what, I don't want that,
and it's nothing being wrong with either. And then here's
another one. I've heard this one a lot. Isn't an
asexual person just someone no one wants to have sex with.
(29:53):
I've heard people say this about me.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You yeah, well you also put that point wrong where
the weird advances that happen they're like, why are you
doing this?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Well, it's so funny because they say that, they immediately
are like, I'll have sex with your.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
What immediately like disproving those like.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well, I also like I don't think we should be
proving worse this way.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, well mean that's that was the other part to
this is like when we talked about people saying, you know,
asexuals because they have too much trauma of that, first
of all, it's not just asexuals. Is everyone who has
trauma and they react to it differently. Everybody reacts to differently.
Someone becomes overly sexual, hypersexual is what we call it,
and we've seen that. I've seen that with a lot
of child uh sex abuse cases, like and that's a
(30:40):
big sign. Like all these different things are signs everywhere
that trauma affects sexuality in general, whether it goes for
one's part of the spectrum to the other. And it's
kind of like even if it is based on trauma,
if that's what part of their healing is, then let
it be. Like because I've said, you're right, I've heard
it for not only for a sexuals, but I've heard
(31:00):
it for like gay men again and then promiscuously women
and all these things, Like there's so many things like
it's because you've been traumatized me, Like you're probably not wrong,
but I'm also cisgender like sexual heterosexual person who was
also traumatized, Like it's a thing for everyone. It just
is I and you accept me the way I am,
(31:23):
even though I have trauma based on that as well,
Like there's so many things to that conversation. It's like, well,
if this is the reaction to trauma, which is not
the case, because obviously we all handle it differently, like
you and I are very much on different parts of
the spectrum going through civil trauma, right, so it's not
necessarily a reaction to trauma. Trauma just happens.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
To be there, right point blank. That's yes. And that
was a big realization for me because I did and
listeners you have heard me talk about this, because I
really struggled with that. I was like, maybe it could
be this or this or this, because I've been fed
that like my whole life, like here's your drugs you
can take to improve your libido, here's like all these
(32:04):
things you can do because this is wrong with you
and this It was a real revelation I had on
this show where people were like, you know what kind
of at the end of the day, doesn't matter, that's
how you identify, you feel comfortable with it. You feel good,
then that's it, and that's how that's how I feel exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And maybe coming to that realization is part of that
healing of like oh.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Honestly, yeah, because for a while I was I got
this so in my head like this is yes, something
must be wrong with me. But when I was finally
just like you know what, I feel comfortable, like this
feels right, then it was. It was a very settling
in myself moment. And here's a quote that kind of
relates to that from Victims Service Center of Central Florida.
(32:48):
Sometimes when someone experience the sexual violence, the construct of
sexual orientation is questioned. This is because society's norm is heterosexual.
When someone identifies as heterosexual, no one asks, how do
you really know if you are heterosexual? Or are you heterosexual?
Because you are sexually assaulted. I like to say that
for whatever reason you identify as ACE as valid, you
can still identify as ACE even if you think something
(33:10):
caused your lack of attraction. The reality is we will
never know. I believe I was born ACE, and I
am okay with that.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Thinking about that quote in itself is like we know
a lot of who people who are queer, but were
afraid to come out. Was because of the trauma of
being told that they can't be queer exactly, so they
tried to identify as heterosexual. But you're like, wait, but
are you It's because it's the trauma.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's really you know, like, let's see of it all.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
It's true. And I talked about that in the book.
I was so afraid to do it. I would like
have nightmares when I was in seventh grade, like I
will please don't let me be gay. God, I can't
handle it, Like it's heartbreaking. And speaking of here's another quote.
Fifty percent of a sexual people have already seriously thought
(34:00):
about suicide, and fourteen percent have made an attempt, according
to a twenty sixteen study. And here's something that kind
of resonated with me. This is a quote from Ace
and the whole My asexuality became dangerous while trying to
navigate my first adult relationship. One of the first few
people I came out to was my then partner, and
after his first reaction of dismissing me entirely, he became angry.
(34:23):
He said I had lied that it was akin to cheating.
It was the only time in our relationship that I
was afraid he would hit me. This anger from men
became an alarmingly common theme when I was single. I
struggled with disclosing in the early stages of meeting someone.
It was a deal breaker for a lot of men,
and I didn't want to waste their time. But I
also didn't know these men well. I didn't have the
(34:43):
confidence that they wouldn't attack me personally or physically for
a perceived challenge to their masculinity. Women are taught from
an early age to manage the egos of the men
in their lives, from fathers and husbands to co workers
and bosses. We are to keep the peace and avoid
rocking the boat asexuality. He disrupts that. Saying that you
aren't sexually attracted to anyone becomes a personal slight and
(35:04):
it reinforces fears that they aren't desirable, undermines the self
worth of a self conscious man, and ultimately challenges the
status and power in the society. As a woman. This
is a risky thing to do, so yeah, I mean,
it's like we've talked about that too, where you know,
we have to manage. You can't just say no, because
then men get mad, but then they are mad at
(35:25):
you because you didn't just say no, because you like
let them along, you tease them, you tease them. It's
a similar thing. Yeah, it's like unless I trust you enough,
and it's hard to tell people like, oh, hey, I'm asexual,
and I'm probably not gonna tell you the first time
I meet you. You're right.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
There was a whole incident with a woman saying no
to a person and then them getting mad and then
him hitting out with a brick. That just happened, and
people blame to her say that she's always going after
people anyway, so she probably deserved it, and like there
was evidence, clear evidence. And the dude came out and he
was like, yeah, I didn't like our attitude.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
You're telling me no.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Wow, they still don't believe ours.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Like her attitude? Who what? Wow? Yeah, so you wonder
why we are.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Right? We play along and we give you a fake number,
and the fake a boyfriend or husband, which doesn't.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Often they're like, oh I'm better than that guy, Oh
my gosh.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Or they don't let you have a friend, Nope, nope,
they let you out. Well, okay, ran away.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Another thing that we've been talking about throughout this is
this whole idea, like, yes, you have to change, you
have to change the drugs I talked about, Like you
have the magazines that say to have sex two or
three times to be fulfilled. It's just like kind of
constant barrage of this is what it is. This is
if that's not what's going on for you. And that's
(37:10):
even for people who might not be a sexual just
not have much of a libido, like still telling you
something's wrong, trying to sell you this medication. How do
you know if you've never tried. And I kind of
hate this because this. I have had sex I didn't want.
I've never had sex I enjoyed, but I did it
(37:31):
because of this, and I also like I hate that.
But I also a lot of times I don't think
it ever clarified this because I've said I've done it
out of fear. Sometimes it's not fear of like abuse.
Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's a fear that if
I do it once, I'm such a people pleaser, I'll
(37:51):
be tracked in this and they'll expect it, and I
know that I'll do it, So it's almost like even
if I'm not necessarily afraid of like some kind of
physical abuse. I'm afraid that I will just do what
they want because that is more important than anything I
wouldn't eat or want.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I mean, we've talked about it many times where we
just try to get it over with quickly so that
we can get moved on and hope for the best
and then just never talk to.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Them again.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Again. I laugh because it's sad, I'm true, but yeah,
I mean essentially, and I just I've been in several
situations where I feel like I communicated that and I
wasn't really believed, and then it did turn into resentment
because I was like, if this happens once I'm afraid of,
it'll just be expected and then I I'll just do it.
(38:45):
So that's definitely something that resonated with me when I
was reading about it. I do as I said, I
think people get confused about the bi romantic that they
hear that I'm attracted to somebody, although they're almost always
fictional characters, and they're like, so you do want s Like, no, trash.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Is not the same thing we're trying to do many
people doesn't mean I want to have sex with them exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I can be like, oh, look, it looks so good
and that's it. That's it.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I just want to pet their face exactly head, oh,
give them a cookie literally, and like, like I said,
this is there's so much double standards in this because
I keep going back to this point of like, especially
with women, you can't be too sexual, but you better
(39:36):
want to have sex with a man when he wants
it when you're married.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And all of that's being said to a lot of
us who have been raised believing sexist taboo and you
don't talk about it and it's bad. And then it's
like yeah, but when you get married to a man
and then when he wants it to say okay. But
then I'm like I just don't want it, and they're like, no, wait,
(40:00):
that's wrong too. Have you heard that to consummate a
marriage and most religions you have to have sex.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
As well as that's your purpose.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, and you have to have kids or else what
are you even doing here? What you're not You're racing.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Our time, not traveling all over the world and just
enjoying your life.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Right, And to be clear, like that hurts. That narrative hurts,
like people who can't have kids and want them, but
also plenty of people who can have kids and don't
want them of all types. Another thing, being asexual is
not against the law most places, mostly because people don't
know what it is. But that means that as people
(40:40):
who are seeking asylum are not included under the LGBTT
plus applicants for the status of course saying that it
is worth recognizing the other side too, because being trans
or homosexual is punishable and against the law in several places,
so just to keep that in mind. In the UK,
it is still recognized as a matter disorder, meaning ACE
(41:01):
people are ten percent more likely to get pushed to
get conversion therapy, and it is not recognized under the
twenty ten Sexual Orientation Equality Act. New York's Sexual Orientation
Non Discrimination Act of two thousand and three is one
of the only pieces of legislation that mentions asexual people.
The American Psychiatric Association recognize a sexuality as a sexual
orientation in twenty thirteen. Here's another quote I want to
(41:24):
include from Growth think Tank because I've heard this a
lot too. It should be remembered that asexuality is not
a puritanical or religious movement seeking to advocate abstinence. It
has nothing to do with morals or ethics, since it
is neither a choice nor an opinion. Asexual people are
not against sex, nor do they want to prevent anyone
from having sex. Yeah, safe consensual sex, go for it.
(41:48):
Of all about it. Also, a lot of comments people
will say are if you're talking about it, means you're
uncomfortable with it, which I think is ridiculous. And then
here's my final quote. Asexuality is a sexual orientation that
is different from heterosexuality. Heteros are both heterosexual and heteromantic.
Asexuals can be cisgender, hetero romantic, and asexual, as well
(42:08):
as transgender, homo romantic, and asexual. The inclusion of the
asexual persons in the lgbtqiplus community therefore does not mean
the inclusion of cis gender and heterosexual persons. There is
also a myth of the cis gender and heteroasexuals claiming
to be asexual in order to infiltrate the lgbtqiplus community.
This reminds us of the terf discourse asserting that transgender
(42:30):
women or men disguised as women to integrate from this movement.
So this was in kind of going back to something
you said earlier, but this was in relation to a
lot of kind of conspiracy theories that asexuality is just
invented by straight people to get into queer spaces. Yeah yeah,
(42:53):
I mean, And that's the thing, as you said that,
like bisexual people did and still face that in the
queer community, the trans people didn't still face that too.
So I feel like there's been progress. And like I said,
this isn't about comparing hardships, because we already know that
(43:16):
pitting marginalized people against each other only helps those that
are pressing us. I think it is important to recognize intersections.
I think it's important to keep context in mind. But
I feel like a lot of times it kind of
breaks my heart because this conversation. A lot of conversations
like this devolve into well you're not really queer, or
(43:38):
well you're taking up space, or well why are we
talking about this? One should be talking about this, So
I'm not about that. I feel like there's room to
talk about all of this, and we should talk about
all of this, right.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I think that's the thing is like I hate that
you even have to acknowledge or put that as a caveat,
because you should be able to talk about your identity
and what you are going through and understanding the differences
and why it's important to talk about these precise labels
and or identifications.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
And I don't think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Like it's odd if someone who is in the marginalized
communities like, but but it doesn't obtain to me, so
I don't it's not important. Again, this is kind of
that narrative of weere like, hmm, this is why intersectionality
is important, and that when we say intersectional, we mean
room for everyone, and that we should hold space for
(44:32):
everyone and to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, and we've talked about that a lot, Like this
idea of like there's not enough space. That's such a
that's just maintaining the status quo of like keeping marginalized
people in the margins, like there's space to talk about
this and everything else. So yeah, and I do think
it affects everyone in the queer community and not all
(44:56):
of this stuff. So thank you for going on my
crash course. I'm still learning to thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, I learned new things today.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm like, wow, Okay, yeah, I'm still learning too. I'm
still learning too, Honestly, a lot of the like questions
I've gotten have legitimately been really genuinely curious, like they
want to know, and I appreciate that. So hopefully this helps.
Hopefully this helps, and I really appreciate all of the
support I've gotten from you, Samantha, and from listeners and
(45:27):
all lot. So yeah, if you have any thoughts about this,
I know some of you have reached out about resources.
If you want any resources, I can send those to you,
or if you have resources, you can send those to me.
You can email us at stuff that your mom Stuff
at ihurtmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff I Never told you. We have a tea public
(45:48):
store and a book where, yes I do talk about this.
You can get it at stuff you should read Books
dot com or wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christina, executive producer Maya, and
our contributor Joey. Thank you, I love the accent. Thanks
to you for listening. Stefan never told me the restriction
of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the Heart Are you app Apple podcasts,
(46:09):
or where you listen to your favorite ships.
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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