SMNTY Classics: Scream

We all scream for Scream - the original and the 2022 requel. Anney and Samantha lay down the rules and talk feminism, final girls, the horror movie-metaverse, mothers, and toxic fandom in this classic episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stefan
never told you a protection of iHeartRadio. And this week
you are getting a classic on an off day, a
non classic day, because we have a Spoiled Saturdays coming

(00:28):
up this week.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, and it is. I was like, I won't tell
them what it is, but because of this classic, you
know what it is.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
It is Scream six. We are talking about Scream six,
and we might be embarking on a whole Scream journey,
so wait to listen out for more about that.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm very excited.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
And I was telling Samantha because this classic is about
the twenty twenty two Scream five. It's usually just called Scream,
but it is Scream five. And I was telling Samantha
about how fun I had revisiting these, like I get
nervous for some reason when I engage with something I love.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Either I won't love it as much.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Or sometimes I just get like I know it's gonna
get me so excited and it's an.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Energy thing coming on. I don't know if I'm in
a place where I can get that excited, and sometimes
I don't. I just get sad about things I love.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's an odd behavior that I have, but I had
a blast revisiting that.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I had such a good time. So I hope you listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Even if you don't, if this isn't your thing, you'll
at least enjoy how excited I am and our conversation
as always. But yes, in preparation for Scream six, we
thought we would bring back our episode we did about
Scream five. Please enjoy.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
I've never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and it's
time for another feminist movie Friday. I am so excited
about this one. This one's very indulgent. I'll admit this
one is something that I really wanted to do. Because

(02:24):
today we're going to be doing a comparison of the
nineteen ninety six Scream, the original Scream, and the newest
Scream Scream twenty twenty two are Scream five. All those
pretty considered also Scream confusingly enough, but there will be
spoilers for that, and there will be spoilers for all five.

(02:44):
I'm just going to tell you right now, so if
you want to wait, I know the news Scream just
came out on streaming. Go check it out, then come
back because got a lot of thoughts. Got a lot
of thoughts about it.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Oh she does. And I mean like the day she watched,
I was getting texts like, oh my god, it's these
these things and I can't wait for you to watch it.
So I definitely had to watch this with her, the
newest scream. Actually I watched the third one with you
as well, because I just never got into it and
you're like, but but and so we'll get to watch
that as well.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, the only one our mystic is for. And I'll
get you one day, Samantha. I'll get you one day. Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
We are gonna be talking about death and sexual assault
and violence. Nothing too graphic, but that's kind of what
is going on in these movies. Also, Samantha, are you impressed?
I kept the outline short.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
I assumed you did this and in the idea that
when we start talking about it, it's gonna double, if
not trouble.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Samantha gave me very strict instructions and I did my
best to follow them.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
About the link, I was like, look, we're going to
do this, and I'm excited for you to do this,
but if you don't, I'm going to take these other
things away from me, and I'm gonna do it for you.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
You our work relationship balance each other out.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
It's perfect.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yes, Yes, indeed, see our past episodes on Final Girls, Survival, Horror,
Why Didn't You Believe Her? And especially Scream Queens, which,
as Samantha properly commented on in that episode, was kind
of a trojan horse for me to get to talk
about Sidney Prescott, who I was arotagonist.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
It wasn't a trick.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
I just.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Thought I went wild, Samantha. I couldn't stop.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
This is one of those like I'll take this, You
take these two, and I'll take the majority of it
because I know what these two will do to the outline.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, I have a lot of feels about Sidney Prescott.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I love her so much, so me feels.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yes, and we are going to talk about some of that,
even though yes, I really did go on and on
about it in our Scream Queen's episode, So definitely listen
to that one as kind of a companion to this one. Also,
I know there are some really terrible people associated with
some of these and we are going to talk about that.
I did talk about it in the Scream Queen's episode,

(05:07):
especially about how I think Scream three and me and
others think Scream three is about Harvey Weinstein, who is
listed as an executive producer for the first four. So
we will talk about that, but first let's break down
the plot, starting with the original Scream, which was a
nineteen ninety six meta slasher comedy movie directed by Wes

(05:30):
Craven and written by Kevin Williamson. It stars Nev Campbell
as high schooler and final girl Sidney Prescott, Courtney Cox's
news anchor, Gail Weathers. And yes, the names are excellent,
they are so funny. David Arquette as Deputy Dwight Dewey,
Riley Rose McGowan as his sister Tatum, also Sidney's best friend,

(05:53):
Jamie Kennedy as movie lover Randy Meeks, Matthew Lillard as
Tatum's boyfriend and killer Stumacher, Skeet Ulrich as Sydney's boyfriend
and also killer Billy Loomis, and Drew Barrymore as Casey Becker.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
And it is very very nineties. It is so very nineties.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
I mean it was coming off the height of Party
of five, so nev Campbell was already a big ninety
star and I guess we're around the craft too. So
like this, this is her moment to shine.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yes and shine she did, I say.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Sidney Prescott, Campbell's character is a high schooler at Wisboro
High whose mother, Maureen, has been violently raped and murdered
a year before the movie starts. Sidney testified at the trial,
and the murderer was determined to be caught and weary,
played by Leav Schreiber, a man her mother had been
cheating with. It was a highly publicized trial that caught

(06:51):
nationwide attention, and many victim blamed her mom, calling her
a slut.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Basically, she deserved it, she brought it on herself.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
After two of Sidney, the peers are murdered by a
killer in a ghost face mask, including Drew Barrymore. In
a very graphic opening scene which introduced the famous what's
your favorite.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Scary movie line?

Speaker 1 (07:10):
A curfew is introduced and gossip and finger pointing goes rampant.
Everybody's a suspect, with many thinking that Sydney's snapped on.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
The anniversary of her mother's death.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Meanwhile, you've got her boyfriend Billy, who's pressuring her to
have sex, something Sydney is reluctant to do because of
what happened to her mother.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Now people talk about her like being this slut.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Billy also compares his mother leaving his dad and leaving
town to Sydney's mother's death, which does not go over
well with Sydney. If you can imagine, Sydney's father goes
out of town, leaving her home alone when she gets
a phone call that she thinks is a prank call.
And this is when she quits about horror movies. They're
all the same, some big breasted bimbo running up the

(07:55):
stairs instead of going at the front door.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
It's insulting.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
She is attacked by the killer, who seemingly disappears just
for Billy to show up. Sydney starts to suspect it's him,
who is arrested and taken in for questioning. Sidney decides
to spend the night with her friend Tatum, and before
she goes, as she's leaving the police station, she punches
a very persistent Gale Weathers in the face because Weathers

(08:19):
is critical of Sidney's testimony against Cotton Weary and believes
that he was wrongfully convicted, that the killer is still
out there. She wrote a tell all book about the
whole thing. While at Tatum's, Sidney gets a call from
the killer, leading her to believe that Billy can't be
the person who attacked her.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Right, And in gil Weather's book, she does kind of
perpetuate that the mom was at fault, right, That's why
she really disliked her. Not at fault, but like she
wasn't necessarily a.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Kind of yeah, that's the reason that Sidney really really
really doesn't like it because she sort of played up
like the whole rape aspect that maybe it wasn't rape
and maybe they we're having a consensual affair right at
that Cidy did not like that message.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
I mean, this kind of goes into because I want
to say it wasn't necessarily the beginning, but like definitely
a good high point for true crime things like the
things that Gilwhethers was doing in which we see now
not now, but we're paying attention more to the fact that, hey,
the families should have a little more to say and
we should really care about the victims' families and what

(09:28):
they're going through. So it kind of was like meta
in that.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yes, even absolutely we're going to talk about that too,
because I got some more thoughts about that.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Oh, got so many thoughts. So after the principal of
the school is murdered, yes, everybody's just dying, school is canceled,
and of course the kids decide to break curfew and
throw a party at Stew's house because what else do
you do, you know, people runt or die, Let's have
a party. This is where Randy lays out the rules
of surviving a horror movie. So like, that's we'll be

(09:59):
ingrained in my mind the scene. No sex, so don't
show your tests for women obviously, which she does. Uh oh,
no alcohol or drugs, and never say I'll be back.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I still have trouble saying that. Actually, what if.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
I say I'll be right back, that's even worse, right, Yeah,
So carty members start getting picked off one by one,
including Tatum, who is crushed, yes, crushed by a garage door.
Of course that was also like another fear instilled between
that and final destination of like all these inanimate things
I'd never thought about before, Yeah, petrified. Meanwhile, Gail secretly

(10:37):
put a camera in the home or where the party
is being held. And she and Dewey go to investigate
an abandoned car they think belongs to Sydney's dad oh Gil.
Then comes the famous Act three. Sidney has sex with
Billy and then Randy and do we get stabbed? Then
girl's in a car crash, and then Sidney discovers that

(10:57):
Billy and Stu are the killer, and that Sydney's mom
had been having sex with Billy's dad, and that he
blames that fact that that's why his mom left, So
he actually killed Sydney's mom. Stu says he just succumbed
to peer pressure, but you know, he actually really likes it.
And they revealed they have her dad tied up in

(11:17):
the closet and are going to kill her, kill him,
stab themselves, and be the sole survivors, blaming it on
her dad. Sidy manages to get away after they stab themselves,
and Gel distracts them, calling them with their own voice
modulator and toy with them. She kills Stu and with
the help of Gel, Billy too, and Gel reports on

(11:39):
the scene as the movie ends, Yes, literally like she's
brushing herself off, which, by the way, again we're gonna
talk about this in the newer version. I'm like, they've
all been pretty much stabbed and shot and beaten, and
they're all, Okay, we're shoulna send you home. What world
is this?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
But anyway, whatever, Yes, this is just so.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
This movie when it came out, was a commercial and
critical success. It's credited with revitalizing the horror genre in
the nineteen nineties with its satirical tongue in cheek nature
and witty dialogue. It created a whole legion of passionate
fans and inspired four sequels on a Show So Far
and another movie is already in the works. Brief rundown

(12:30):
of the other movies. The second one has a lot
of boyfriend trauma and one of the killers is Billy's mom.
The third one is all about how Sidney's mom was
sexually abused while pursuing acting in Hollywood, had a son
she gave up, and this son went to Billy and
gave him the push to kill Maureen Sydney's mom and

(12:53):
is the killer in the third one. And in the
fourth Sidney writes a book about her speriences, and the
killers are a movie fan and Sydney's cousin who wants
to be the New City.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, that's one I didn't watch.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, I've actually like watched it twice recently now, so
it's fresh on my mind. I got some thoughts about
it too, which brings us to the newest one, Scream
twenty twenty two or Scream five. And yes, they make
fun of using the same title in the movie, because,
I mean, if you haven't picked up on it, these
movies are so so meta. They're so meta, so they

(13:30):
do make fun of using the same title within them.
So Scream twenty twenty two or Scream five is a
horror slasher comedy meta movie from Yes twenty twenty two,
directed by Matt Bettanelli Olpen and Tyler Galette or Gillette
I Hope I'm getting the right ooh, and written by
James Vanderbilt and Guy Busick. In addition to legacy characters Sydney,

(13:52):
Gale and Dewey, with Campbell Cox and Arequtt reprising their roles,
the movie stars Melissa Barrera as Samantha Carpenter, Jack as
Richie Kersh, Mikey Madison is Amber Freeman, Jenna Ortega as
Tara Carpenter, Dylan Manette as we Was Hicks, Jasmine that
Savoy Brown as Mindy meeks Martin, Mason Gooding as Chad

(14:12):
meets Martin, and Skeetrich reprises his role as Billy Loomis
and Easter Eggs saus I just watched this again too.
Hayden Pantier's character Kirby from Scream four, who is a
fan favorite, is revealed to be alive.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yes, I ass part.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Because it's like a it's there's a part where they're
watching like a review of stabb e and in the
back there's a freeze frame of like the YouTube page
and it's like, if you like this, watch also and
it has a thumbnail that says survivor Kirby whatever comes
back to talk about her experience.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
So yay, I always hated she died and Scream four Yes.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
And also a bunch of actors from the first one
provide voiceover during the party scene, including Drew Barrymore and
Matthew Lillard. And Matthew Lillard is also the voice of
Stab eight's killer because they show a clip from Stab eight.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Oh it's funny.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
And also director Ryan Johnson, which we're going to talk about,
but that kind of settles some a question I had
when you and I were talking about this, Samantha, Yes.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yes, does that make it feel better? Now? About it?

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Better?

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Listeners when you find out what we're talking about. She
was having a moment of dilemma.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
I was having a crisis. So the movie opens twenty
five years after the first one, back in Woodsboro, high
school student Tyer Carpenter is attacked in her home by
a killer in a ghost face mask. After this killer
quizzes her over the phone about STAB movie trivia, and

(15:49):
STAB is the in universe movies that are based on screen,
so it's like a movie series about scream within scream
right makes sense?

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Right? Yes?

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Tara survives and is hospitalized, and one of her friends
contacts her stranged older sister Sam, who's out Modesto California,
and Sam returns to Woodsboro with her boyfriend Ritchie, who
seems unaware of the Woodsboro killings and the STAB movies
that are based on them.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
And yes, at this point there are eight of these
STAB movies.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
At the hospital, Samantha is reunited with Tara's friend group,
Amber Wes, twins Mindy and Chad, who are the niece
and nephew of Randy Meeks. From the first three and
Chad's girlfriend Live. That night, Tara's friends are at a
bar discussing suspects, which is like a key thing in
all these movies.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
They have the scene where they're all.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Like it did it could be you, which is one
of my favorite things of these when, unbeknownst to them,
Live's ex boyfriend, who also happens to be a relative
of Stumacher, which was one of the killers from the
first movie, is murdered by ghost Face. Later, Samantha's in
the Hut the hospital breakroom, taking some pills when she
sees the memory of Billy Loomis hovering over her shoulder.

(17:06):
He speaks to her a moment before Sam is attacked
by ghost Face. She manages to get away and reveals
to Tara the reason she changed, became distant towards Tara,
and ultimately why she left, is that when she was
thirteen and Tara was eight, Samantha discovered from her mom's
diaries that she was in love with Billy Loomis, the
other serial killer from the first one, had an affair

(17:27):
with him, and that.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
He was actually Sam's father.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Sam confronted her mother about it, and her father, who
hadn't known. Hear's the argument and leaves. Her mother blames
Samantha for her father leaving and never treated her the same,
all while Sam struggled with the fact that her father
was a serial killer, her hallucinations a manifestation of her
guilt and fear she'd end up like him. Shocked and hurt,

(17:52):
Tara angrily orders Sam to leave. Sam finds Richie outside
the door, and he admits he overheard the whole thing.
They decide to visit an expert on ghost face killings, Dewey,
who is now divorced from Gail, retired, are pretty much
fired and living in isolation. He reluctantly and grumpily gives

(18:14):
them advice and telling Sam to never trust the love
interest and to look at her sister's close group of friends.
After they leave, Dewey contacts Sidney, who is married to Mark,
which is Patrick Dempsey from the Third One.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
From this third one, we didn't know well.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I could remember his name, so I had to look
it up. But yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Him, and they have kids together, and Dewey tells her
there's another killer on the loose and stay away from Woodborough.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
She's like, no offense I'm never coming near that town again.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Then Dewey texts Gail the same thing, complete with smiley face.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
He then goes with Sam and.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Ritchie to the Miex's house, where he is reunited with
Randy's sister and Randy's niece, and Randy's niece lays out
the rules of a recall, which we've talked about, but yes,
it's not quite a reboot, not quite a sequel.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
And during this there is a direct call.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Out to Ryan Johnson, who directed The mush Malign Stab
eight in This Universe and The Last Jedi, which is
the eighth movie of the Skywalker series, which Rian Johnson
actually did right. Johnson actually did interact. There's talk of
Mary Sues and fan fiction. There's a great line where

(19:28):
Deui says, maybe you're the killer because that cut deep
Mindy claims that Samantha is not only the Mary Sue,
the main character, she also makes the most sense as
the killer.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
There are so many things that throughout this movie, I
was like, this doesn't make sense, this seems unnecessary, what
is happening? But we will get it all into that
just yet, because I'll like the whole like serial killer myth,
because you and I talked about it for a minute.
I was like, ye, but Billy wasn't your typical serial killer.
He was very much focused on torturing Sydney as a whole,

(20:05):
not necessarily doing a specific thing because he was driven
by it. So I was like, this doesn't align to
that necessarily. He was just like, sure, he could be
triggered and they start things, and who knows if he
had been alive, had he continued, I don't know, but
there was a lot of questions in my head, and
I'm like, so, is Sam really susceptible to being a
serial killer?

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Too?

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Which is her fear and shame?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think this is awesome because you watch a lot
of true crime, and I was time.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
There were so many things.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
She was trying to psychically analyze, all the characters. I
don't think.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Because we'll talk about the ending, because I had some
some theories about the ending. But okay, here we go.
So several more deaths follow, all with connections to past murders.
After Wes and his mother, Judy Hicks, are killed, which
by the way, bothered me the most of the entire movie.
I think the entire build up to that, I was like,
why this is I'm so unnecessary, you don't have to
kill them, Like, I get killing, I get it, but whye,

(21:06):
and then Gil is reunited with Dewey. Oh also that
part about the fact that Judy got murdered on her
lawn in broad daylight after she had the sirens on
and jumps out of her car like no one noticed. Okay,
cool anyway, So Gil is reunited with Dewey and he
reveals he just couldn't hack it in New York and
left in the middle of the night. It's very sad.

(21:26):
Sam realizes no one is protecting her sister and the hospital,
and she and Dewey high tail it over there, right
because all of the cops showed up to you know,
because Judy Hicks was the sheriff. They needed to find
out what was happening, came to that site, but they
was like, oh no, who's protecting my sister? And apparently,
you know, no one. Tara and Ritchie are attacked, but

(21:48):
Sam and Dewey get there in time to save them.
But when Dewey goes back to confront the killer, he
is murdered, with the killer saying it's an honor.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Again.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
I had a lot of issues I'm like, there's no way, hey,
this could have happened. I know Willing's suspension of disbelief,
but I just just could not. This is probably why
I can't watch stab like murder, like gory horror movies
like this doesn't make sense physically, this does not make sense.
I still hold you that this brings Sydney into town,

(22:18):
and she tries to tell Sam that the killer is
not going to stop hunting her even if she leaves Witsboro,
but Sam disagrees, and she, Ritchie and Tara get into
the car to book it out of there. However, Tara
can't find her in Haler and yes, it's one of
the big things. She has to have her in Haler
or she's going to die. So they have to stop
at Amber's house, which they're like, oh, yeah, I have

(22:39):
one at Amber's house the friend for her to get
her spare one. And so they arrive trying to get this.
Of course there's a party, why because there's always a party.
So Sydney and Gail follow them, and they realize that
Amber's house was once Stubacher's house where the original Woodsboro
bloodbath took place. And Yes, and I talked about the

(23:00):
fact that we knew that basement. I was like, this
looks familiar because I started asking about the garage kill
when they were down there, and I was like, huh,
ye had to tell me. So Amber is throwing a
party but kicks everyone out when Tara, Sam and Richie arrive.
Chad and Mindy are both attacked by ghost Face, and
Live suddenly appears after having left earlier, and Amber shoots

(23:23):
her in the head, yes, revealing herself to be the
killer dut dot dut by the way, I guess that.
Ritchie and Sam flee, and Richie tells Sam he thinks
Tara is Amber's accomplice. Sam disagrees and leaves him to
search for her, finding her tied up in a closet,
just as Sidney's dad had been in the first one,
and then she hesitates to untie her.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Meanwhile, Amber shoots an injureds Gale. Richie stabs Sam and
reveals to her that he is actually Amber's accomplice.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
I called that one too.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
They force Sidney and Sam into the kitchen, revealing they
are STAB movie fans that met on Reddit who are
disappointed with Stab eight and want to provide new source
material to get the franchise back on track, bringing back
the original cast with Sam as the killer. However, Sam

(24:16):
reveals she untied Tara and Tara attacks Amber. Sam attacks Richie,
and Amber falls on the stove and Gail shoots her,
lighting her on fire. Sam is injured but manages to
get Amber's knife and tells Richie she is introducing a
new rule, never with the daughter of a serial killer,
and stabs him multiple times, shooting him for good measure.

(24:38):
Amber runs at them for a final attack, but is
shot by Tara. The Meeks twins and Tara are taken
to the hospital, Sam accompanying Tara. Gail decides and not
to write about the killers, instead to write a book
about Dewey. The movie ends with an anchor reporting on
the events outside of the house, just like the first
one did. And this is one of many many things
where the first one and this one mirror each other.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
And this is where I say, Okay, now you've got Sam.
If she's truly this, you know, if we were watching
Criminal Minds, she truly has whatever serial killer jeanes, which
is kind of what her how she's been upset with
and like I don't want to be this person, like
after stabbing him multiple times. That just opened up the floodgates.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
So just saying yes, well, it's interesting because as I said,
they're already making the next one, and the actor who
plays Sam said she wants to explore her dark side.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
So who knows she began well.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Exploring that dark side.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
And we're going to talk about this morning because I
know I've said it multiple episodes, but her story mirrors
that Ovray from the sequel trilogy of Star Wars, who
was Palpatine's granddaughter and had like this like evil jeans
and heavy quotes, but kind of this history and this
pressure perhaps hanging over her to become dark and she

(26:01):
did it.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
And I can't wait to talk about that. One of
my favorite things about this whole thing.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
But first I wanted to talk about trauma because one
of the things I know I've said it before, but
I watched this movie the first one way too young.
I watched it when I was nine years old, and
I loved it. I loved it had the soundtrack. I
still remember all the songs, and I really loved Sydney,
and I love how they have done a good job,

(26:25):
in my opinion, with that character and that she's she's
funny and smart and capable, but she has this trauma,
like you see.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Her trauma throughout, and like in the.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Third one, she's working for like she's isolated and she's
working for this like mental health hotline. And then the
fourth one, she wrote this book out of darkness, and
that reminded me of what you were talking about, Samantha,
and that episode we kind of did, which is who
makes the money off of these tragedies?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Who gets to tell the story?

Speaker 1 (26:58):
In the fourth one, she says the reason she did
it was she was tired of everyone else telling the
story and she wanted to take control. She wanted to
feel this semblance of control over it. And then, of course,
on her first on her stuff at Whisper on the
book tour, someone gets murdered and then the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, of course, and Alison bringes her agent in that one.
By the way, Oh that's funny. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
I do like talking about the old actors who you
were like didn't know at that point in time, and
then you come back and revisit and you're like, oh
my god, that's so and so and so and so.
That's my favorite like game to play with everyone because
no one really recognizes. And then I'm like, that person
wasn't this? That person wasn't that the being? Like maybe
the random character and supernatural that no one else saw.
Was like, they're for like fifteen seconds. But I love it, Like,

(27:50):
good on them, good on them.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
They made it can confirm Samantha does this.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
I was so lucky to watch this in a drive
through and just have a wonderful being experience with it
because the newest one starts out with trivia about the
STAB movies, because they always open with like, what's your
favorite scary movie? And then asking these questions, and this
one opens with Stab movie trivia, which is like meta
within meta, Like it's so and when she's scrolling Terras

(28:31):
scrolling through because she's kind of cheating and she's looking
on her phone and she's scrolling through the like IMDb page,
I was.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Like, oh, yeah, the cast is a STAB and it's
like Heather Graham and David Swimmer and.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Luke right, I remember Luke Wilson and then Janna Pinkett
Smith was one of the actual characters in Scream in
the second one.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Correct, yes, yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
I try to remember all of that that was that
because she was the first death scene.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Second one.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah, yeah, oh, okay, okay, like they were the two
like just like that Drew Barry Moore where they had
the big actors and you really think they're going to
be a part of the movie and then you're like, what.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, And that's I was thinking about that because we
were watching this together and we were talking about how
brutal the kills are in this new one. Yeah, but
I was thinking about the first one in those are
pretty brutal, like the way.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Barry died that you won't But the thing is that
they usually like pan away and you hear it more
so than anything else. On the newer stuff, they actually
show you, like the knife going through, so you're like,
I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready, I will say. And
then going back to what you were saying about the trauma,
I do like the lead up into I Know You

(29:38):
You Again, Love Sydney, the character of Sydney, and then
the fifth one was a nice like I don't know
if it's about out as in like she might pop up,
but it's obvious this is no longer her story, and
that it's kind of where we all are with our trauma,
Like she definitely went through all of the steps. Seemingly
we never do see her go through therapy, but I

(29:59):
hope she did. But like just to the point of like,
all right, I'm here, I made it and I'm ready.
I will defend who I am and who you are.
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, That's one of the things I loved about it too,
because you know, there is all this commentary on franchises
and kind of the issue with franchises that we've talked
about also a lot where we can't let these characters go.
And I even if I love a character, I want them.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
I want them to go be happy.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
I don't want her, yes, And but I do love
how she came back and she gave advice and she
was kind of a steady like, yeah, I'm going to
be here for you, but it's not really like about me, right,
and which I really appreciate. And also I kind of
cracked up now knowing that she did marry Mark from
the third one, who was a detective. I can just

(30:46):
imagine him being like, are you serious You're going back?

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Stop?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Please stop going back? Done this.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
I can't believe I keep having to tell.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
And so I'm yeah, Like you were saying that this
is becoming a new franchise ish with the same names. Again,
we've seen that with so many others, which is kind
of that meta talk within Scream. It was produced by
Kevin Williamson in this one as well, so it was
the same producer, new directors, obviously new writers. And you
are telling me that they did this because they loved

(31:23):
Scream and was like, hey, we would have an opportunity
to take another shot, here's take another stab. The fact
that Kevin Williamson was like, yeah, I'm cool with it,
let's go, and it was, like it said in memory
of Wes Craven. It was interesting to see that. But yeah,
I think it's I can't imagine how this can get
stretched out more. But I guess there's been enough time

(31:46):
that maybe the newer generation that have never seen Scream,
so they're gonna say a newer version and didn't go
back to the old one.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Maybe yeah, yeah, maybe I was thinking about that a
lot because one of the big fall downs with a
lot of horror movies when you adapt them to like
newer times, is we have new technology now and there's
like all these things that don't work anymore. They even
have a joke about that in Scream for like take
a drink every time their cell phone mysteriously isn't working, like,

(32:15):
and yeah, they were huge fans and it this it's
so complicated. They they walked such a fine line because
there's very easily this could have gone wrong, and we've
seen that go that way and a lot of franchises actually,
but they like wrote this letter to Nev Campbell, like,
you know, it meant so much to us, well please
come back, because she was kind of like think I

(32:36):
might be done with this, and we talked about how
exhausting it is to be in a horror movie, especially
for a lot of these scream queens or women, like
it's very physically demanding, and she's been kind of like
I think I might be.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Done with the next one, which they did make room for.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
As you said, they kind of were like she did
her thing, but she was still a background character in it, right.
But yeah, they were huge fans, and that makes the
dialogue around toxic fandom all the more interesting because the
implication is that perhaps they didn't like the foreth line. Right,

(33:12):
Maybe that doesn't mean that at all, but it's just
it's hard not to with a movie so meta.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Right that you're kind of like, which, yes, I know
we're going to talk about a little more in a bit,
but the whole like is talking about Star Wars fans like,
I don't know what's happened.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
I don't know what's happening. And by and by the way,
I have been drawn into that a little bit because
of you in that I get notifications about argument. Lord,
I'm sorry, but I'm like, it's happening. And yeah, you
kept explaining it was so excited. You are so excited
the face that you would make, do you see, I was.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
So God, I'm getting excited just thinking about it. One
thing I did want to talk about, and we briefly
mentioned this in the Scream Queens one. There's a lot
of in the first one, especially for Sydney, trauma around sex.
So that whole thing where with Billy, he's pressuring her
to have sex from jump in that movie and she's

(34:11):
very like, no, we shouldn't, and you can tell she's trying,
like she feels like she should, that she has to,
but she's not comfortable with it. You actually never see
her breast, which is a weird thing to talk about,
but it's true. And these horror movies often you do
you don't for her.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Right, she flashes him. We just don't see it.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, we don't see it.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
But and I find that like the whole conversation around
her mother being this slut and therefore I guess deserve
to die in the opinion of a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
And then she's taking that in and seeing like her mother.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Died and people are saying like, oh, she will, was
her miscuous and her having this trauma around that, and
then sort of being shamed for that, like having can't
you get over it? Like don't you want this? Stop
being so controlling? Take off your chastity bell. He says

(35:05):
something like.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
That, right, which is just odd. It feels so, I mean,
these are.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Very they're making a commentary on on things, but all
always they're just kind of like a funny slasher movie.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
They're like, they're not super deep.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
But that feels very if she was this her mother
had died and it became this like national story. She's
being treated in these movies as if she is a
character a celebrity that you just or like people feel
like they can talk to her in any type of
way or treat her any type of way, which is

(35:41):
pretty messed up, and that would really mess with your head,
I can imagine.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right right.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
I mean that's what we talked about again with the
two crimes, Like when we see the stories and it's
not you start seeing them as a character instead of
real people and like going through that trauma. Of course
Sidney is a character. I know that's a whole different
thing again meta, but it is that conversation and I'm
really and I'm guessing that was part again about the
commentary of people's need for true crime, yeah, and celebrating it,

(36:09):
which is the weird party line.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, And I mean if you haven't seen these movies,
like the Stab movies, within them, people like decorate, they
have like rocky.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Horror movie level audiences for it.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
They have Stabathon and the fourth one, like these big
things and you know, just for a pretty tragic experience
that people are treating as entertainment, which is kind of
the whole thing in this one where the killers were like,
we don't like what stab eight, dude, so we're going
to create something better. And so it's like marring that

(36:44):
line between life and art and they have a whole
conversation about that in the second one, because usually I
think in everyone there's a killer, except maybe the third one,
there's a killer that's doing it for like the art
of it, a movie part of it, or the fame
of it, which is interesting. I do think there's an

(37:04):
interesting thing around women survivors in these because.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Sydney and Gaale make it through all of them. At
the end of this new one.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
All the people that they show that are still standing
because other people did survive, but that are still standing
are women. And I was thinking about this because I
read an interesting statistic that kind of surprised me that
actually more men get killed in slasher movies, which doesn't
feel like my experience. But maybe I don't watch that
many slasher movies honestly, right, and there's some I like,

(37:39):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Wonder if it's because the main victims, as we talk
about when vital girls have to be women. So if
she's slutty or she's perceived to be slutty, she has
to have a lot of extra men around that get
killed in our disposable So I wonder if that's the case.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
I think that's a part of it. I think also,
you can always make the argument there are more men.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Around, yes, but the fourth one, I could be wrong,
but I feel like like two of the people who
died were men and everyone else was women.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
It was I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
That's just something that's been in my head because I
kind of didn't I was kind of shocked by that.
I did like the the in the newest one, like
Sydney being the expert. There's a lot of jokes about
her being the original you don't with the original and
her still being pretty I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
I kind of like her groundedness about it, almost like.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
She's still open and she's still trying to like help
people and comfort people, but she's also clearly tired of it.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Like I don't know, No, like I said, like it
just became like, oh this again, I've been through this.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I'm good, right, right, And then we've already kind of
mentioned this. But I find it really fascinating that these.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Movies were the killings.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
In these movies were kicked off by the idea that
her mom was a slut.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Right Well, we talked about this when we were talking
about mothers in general when it comes to horror and
any of that John Brenon's always whether it's protecting someone
or they did something wrong, or they cursed the family somehow,
and it's always the evil thing is the mother or
began by the mother, which again you and I've been
talking about that's a theme all around, whether it is

(39:23):
a horror movie or not, and the stronghold of the
mother being the basis of whatever, either trauma or whatever
incident or whatever is the next plot line to come through,
which is interesting.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, yeah, because like, not only do you have you
have Sidney's mom, Maureen, who.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Went to Hollywood before all of.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
This happens, went to like this room where essentially she
got sexually assaulted by big producers in Hollywood. Then, in
the words of the killer and the third one who
is her son, that made her a slut. It knit
and therefore she was sleeping around in Woodsboro, including with

(40:06):
Billy's dad, and.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
That set off what is it nine serial killers? I
was counting last night. I think it's nine. A lot
of serial killers.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Right for this one event, and they're all kind of
it all comes back to her mom, in heavy quotes,
being a slug, right, which again, it seems like there
were a lot of men to blame this formula.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Right, but we don't. We don't acknowledge that.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
No, No, it's her fault.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
And then in the second one, like The Killers, Billy
Loomis's mom, as I said, and she even says, it's
always blamed the mother. It's always about blaming the other.
And then Sydney's like, well, literally are killing me?

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Trying to kill me? Now? So if you hadn't been
doing that, maybe she had an argument.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah, But and again we're gonna come back to this.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
It's it's weird because, like I said, Scream three, I
think is all about Harvey Weinstein. And so if you'd
like take the meadow one step further, it's like this
whole thing was started by you. Oh okay, anyway. Then
there are the rules, which is always a key part
a hit in these movies. I love all of the rules,

(41:26):
laying down the rules scenes. So the old rules were
very like no sexo drugs, no alcohol, don't say I'll
be back. And it does feel it's very moralistic and
it's very especially for like I feel like for women,
is the having sex one. Specifically I could be wrong,
but I feel like generally it's sort of viewed as
like women you don't have sex, Yeah, you stay virginal,

(41:48):
so you might be able to be this final girl character.
And then in the new one there's a lot of
commentary when it comes to the new rules. There's a
lot of commentary around fantom and elevated horror, and.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
It feels less.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
I don't know, it feels less moralistic and more like
fan culture commentary to me.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
There is a weird.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Line in the fourth one where they're like, if you're gay,
you will survive, and I was like, what, I don't
know about that?

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Is it because the queer community have been excluded from
this genre in general, So.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
I like, I'm very I feel like, even if I
don't watch a lot of harmy, a lot of Slashers,
I'm very I know a lot of the horror lingo
with tropes. I wasn't sure what they were. I'm sure
there's something they're referring to, whether it's like whether it
stands up or not. I'm sure there's an actual thing,
but yeah, maybe it is that. Maybe it's just there
haven't been queer characters so right, But then.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
They got out their caricatures and kind of dismissed.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Sure, or the guy right before he dies in the
fourth one, it's like, but I'm gay and the killer
kills him anyway, So.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
You want me to watch the fourth one? Huh?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yes, only once.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Something else I've noticed in watching these is there's always
a creepy boyfriend character who's acting stalkery to one of
the female victims. Like in Everyone, there's a character where
she's like, Oh, it's Ted again, isn't it? Or Oh,
it's Wess again, isn't it? And like that's one of
the ways they build up that it could be anybody.

(43:27):
Everybody's a suspect. But I do think it's like interesting
and kind of upsetting again that this is something we
sort of accept, is the reality that a woman would
have kind of this stalker boyfriend that people.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Are like, it's probably him, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
And there's one line from the new one that stuck
out to me where the killer Ritchie is sort of
commenting on that, and he's commenting on the new the
new rules, and he says, I guess being a sexually
available woman is supposed to be empowering these days, which
he's a really toxic fanboy he is.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yeah, but by the way I had to point out
to you that this was Dennis Quaid and make grin.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yes, son again with your little trimmy of bits. I
was like, there's definitely some ableism going on in all
of them, whether it's like especially around mental health, because
I feel like every one of them has a killer

(44:27):
who is in heavy quotes, mentally unsabled. And then in
this new one, which I find horror movies do this
a lot, they have this red herring of oh, she's
taking pills, this might be her, which is already like
mental health already has a huge to go on it.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Right, not helping.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, and then something else I've been thinking on. I've
thought about this a lot because Gail is a very
ambitious woman.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
She's very very ambitious.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
It is painted like she's kind of a cold ice queen,
and it's a weird thing because she kind of is,
but also like she's an ambitious woman and she really
goes far. Like in this new one, she's in New York,
she's working on Good Morning America. She really made it,
and you know, the implication is she lost kind of

(45:18):
these personal connections. But then it's revealed Dewey is the one,
Yeah that left her because he couldn't handle New York
and couldn't support her and had to come back to Woodsboro.
So I just think that's sort of an interesting part
of that too. I don't feel like she's I don't know,
maybe that's a personal thing.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I don't feel like she's villainized.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
No, I agree with you as a person who was
outside of this frame and when you were the original
take of who gel was. Even like in the second one,
you know, she's building up money and being kind of
seen as an icon and whatever. This one she just
kind of just is like she's maintained her space. So
just kind of like the same Sydney.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
All of them have.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Grown up, figured out themselves and what they wanted and
gotten to a point that they're happy or at least content, yeah,
and satisfies with what they had. The one thing we
find out is, yes, Dewey is the most unsatisfied. There's
so many things that happened with him, and he just
felt like he couldn't be what she needed that point,

(46:14):
which could be a conversation about mel fragility, and he
just to the point that he had to prove himself
by killing himself as a hero. Like that's the whole thing,
Like hmm, that's a commentary in it, but what and whatnot?
And then yeah, like having her come in and be
like I don't need this anymore. But it took her
a long time, and it took her to the point
of being the white female who was like, yeah, but

(46:34):
I did get to use it for a long time
and I'm okay, now I.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Don't have to.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
I mean she certainly there are things she did that
were not great. I'm not saying that at all, like
she in Sydney's story. She definitely was like use Dewey's
story kind of hurt feelings by writing about MSFP was
real bad, which she was kind of in her fairness
to her, I think they did a good job at
making her complex. I guess like she had these flaws

(47:00):
and she also had growth, like she and she said
like we could make it work.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
We could have done it. You didn't have to leave,
like so I thought that was good.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
And also I like seeing the evolution of the relationship
between her and Sydney, which started out very antagonistic and
very cat fighty into like a friendship and like a
mutual respect. Also there's the theme of not believing women.

(47:34):
I know, I've talked about it a million times, but
in the second one, when she plays Cassandra, she has
that whole thing, which if you don't know, Cassandra's this
character who's like cursed to see that.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Doom was coming and no one would believe her.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
But that's prevalent throughout, especially like after people think Sydney
so traumatized, often they just dismissed her like you've been.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Through a lot, so calm down.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Where she's like, yes, I happened to a lot, and
I know what this is. So that's throughout.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
And then I really like the how it turned out
between Tara and Samantha and the new one where they
were kind of playing up maybe Tar as the killer,
and then they have that scene where Samantha hesitates in
untying her, but then she did and they kind of
rebuild their sisterhood and their relationships.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
So I really liked that they did that.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
And then, yes, toxic fandom, so almost every movie has
a fan of horror movies that is the Killer and
perhaps particularly is a fan of the Stab movies. And yeah,
there are a lot of references throughout two horror movies
and horror movies that they love. And there's a line
in this new one where the killer Richie says, how

(48:49):
can fandom be toxic?

Speaker 2 (48:50):
It's about love.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Meanwhile, they're like killing people, right, Yeah, so that might
be toxic right there.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Right.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
But as you said, Samantha, I was very, very excited
about this whole Mary Sue Star Wars connection because they
are it's a very it's a pretty pointed commentary about
Star Wars fandom and Star Wars fans, especially after The
Last Jedi and Ryan Johnson. I keep saying, I go
back and forth between Ryan and Ree and I apologize.

(49:20):
He even commented on it and knives out it was
it was such a huge thing, which again he directed
the Last Jedi and.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Her.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
That's why I was happy when he I found out
he was in it, which to me means he must
have co signed, like they asked him.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
He co signed on it. He was on board.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Because there's a joke in there where Randy's niece Mendy
makes fun of Live for liking the eighth Stab because
it means you have no taste.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
So I was confused. I was like, well, wait, what
are we saying? Do you hate the last Jedi.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Do you like this? She literally went back and said, wait,
I can't. I can't tell that for like being real
and really actually mad or are they just joking? What
is happening? Is this tongue in cheek or not? Should
I be.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Embroiled?

Speaker 3 (50:10):
I was so.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
So confused.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
So the fact that he's involved makes me think that
at least it was self aware that the toxic fandom
backlash to that was terrible. It was awful, and it
control what happened. It actually did influence what happened in
the next Star Wars movie, which a lot of people are,
including me, say, it doesn't make sense based on what
you did in the last Jedi Like they completely because

(50:37):
the backlash was so strong, they did something completely different, right,
which is what they're talking about in this with the
hated Stab eight.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
So they were trying to make staffy.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
What is that? What did they call this?

Speaker 2 (50:51):
This is a recal? Yah? Yes, they wanted to make
a requal.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
But I do love that Samantha's character echoes Ray's character
from Star Wars and Ray, yeah, she has this like
evil thing they reveal which everybody, pretty much everyone hated.
I won't say everybody, but pretty much everyone hated, and
then that Palpatino was her grandfather or uncle.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Oh, I could get into that, but it's very complicated.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Well, could I just put in here? Every time I
heard them say hello Samantha in the little phone call,
I was like, Nope, not a fan of that. Don't
like that at all.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I know, and I was like, what could I use
this word? I would never do it because they always
do that in the movie and then they get killed.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
So I would never till you would be the one
killed on me.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
It would be me, okay, no, no, you would die
and then I would think you were pranking me because
I had pranked you, and then I would die.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
That's what can happen. Yeah, it would be good.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Let's not have this. Let's not have this. Not that
I would want to any other way, would still let's
not do that.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yes, but I do love.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
I love at the end when she's like never with
the daughter of a serial killer, that's kind of like
it felt to me like saying to Star Wars fans like, hey,
Ray could have gone a whole different.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Way, you guys, like she could have killed everybody.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Kind of it felt like a weird, cathartic way of
giving Ray a moment to just break down and lose it.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
This could just be me being a Star Wars fan,
but I think that they kind of were leaning into that,
like this.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yeah, calm down, this has gone a whole different way.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yes, yes, And then I'm not going to go too
deep into this right now because I think I would
like to do a whole episode on this, on the
portrayal of women villains, and I was just I was
kind of like trying to go through all the killers
because there's have been three women who are killers in
these and I was trying to see if, like there

(52:52):
was any big difference between when they when a woman
is the killer versus a man, and I was like,
I feel like they're more kind of emotional relationship base.
But that's that didn't turn out to be true really,
so I'm still thinking on it. But I do have
a lot of thoughts about women who are killers, but
also in these kind of not just horror movies, but
in movies when a woman is in any way annoying

(53:16):
or a killer or annoying, but any like anything we
don't like about her, she doesn't have enough depth really
that were very like gleeful when she dies, and usually
the death is more violent and dramatic, right, because so
you haven't seen the fourth one, but Alison Breeze sort
of similar, like she's really annoying.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
She's not the killer, but like when she dies.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
It's sort of like serves her right, like right, And
that's again that's a wider issue than just these movies
and just horror that like Jurassic World when the woman
who's taking care of her kids, that's my favorite example,
Like this is too much like she was as far
as she had a right to be a little annoyed
by this.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
I will say I am that person to be like, Okay,
you did that stupid thing. I did that with a
dude who was the twin dude who was following her phone.
I'm like, Libra, you're going into the bushes, You're gonna
get cut. Yes, there it goes like he survived, but
I was still like, come on, y'all, come on, don't
do this. Did you feel at any point this is

(54:16):
just a random question that because for a minute it
makes you think that Amber is in love with Tara. Yeah,
that it was a bit queer, baby, was that me, Mike?
Because like there's definitely there is a little bit of
like queer relationships. The twin sister obviously has an interest,
uh with that girl on the couch. They talked about
They're gonna make out any moment, which is fine, but
it felt why did they lean that way to make

(54:39):
her like? Was it to make you be unsuspecting so
that you wouldn't think that it was her? But I
figured it out all that to say that it wasn't her?
Or was that just like an unnecessarily throw in?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
I I picked up on that too, I thought, And
I thought about that because I was like, were they
trying to imply she was like this really possessive, perhaps
in love with Tara friend or is it more like
she just really was there when Sam left and has

(55:15):
kind of like.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Really didn't like her, right?

Speaker 1 (55:17):
So I definitely see that, and I think her character
throughout has moments where you're sort of like, huh, I
thought she.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Was a throw in. That was what threw me off
was because what we didn't talk about earlier in the
plot was that she had discovered that she was living
in Stoo Mocker's home, and then that pushed her into
researching all the stab stuff and falling in like to
an obsession to it, and that's why how she met
Richie was trying to research everything and really getting caught

(55:48):
up in it. But then like, yeah, the other part
is that. But the friendship was obviously real because that
was one of the longest lasting friendships. I don't even
think the twins were really involved as much as much
as Amber, because the twins didn't really know the backstory
of why Sam left or what happened between say Sam
and Tara.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
But Ambrad, Yeah, I well, this is something else I
want to talk about when we whenever we do our
women villains.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
One is I think, you know, a lot of times
the woman who is the.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Villain, it's sort of the like support to the male villain.
But that's not the case in the second one at all.
But like, I think there's a power elements that she
really enjoyed, and I feel like in a lot of
these movies and like my skin is crawling just thinking
about it, but like there's a power element to playing
people like they don't know what to you, ha ha
ha ha.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
So I felt like she was sort of leaning into that.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
But it does like in the last one, the killer
is one of Sydney's cousins, as I said, and her
alibi is like the one I hate the most where
it's like I want to be the new Sydney, but
it's kind of that thing where, yeah, both of them,
it felt sort of like you're really throwing under this
woman under the bus who's you purportedly care about.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Right, There's a whole thing to that too, like his age.
And I know this is just me, but I cannot
handle watching inappropriate ages being hooked together and I hate it.
I actually will go to the depth of finding out
their real ages to make sure it was appropriate. Like
it just gets underneath my skin so badly. Because he's

(57:27):
supposed to be a teenager, sixteen maybe right in high school.
It doesn't seem like like they're too much older. They're
still in high school obviously, and in my head it
was like sixteen, maybe seventeen, and then he's supposed to
be in college, if not out of college, and they
hooked up, and I'm like, there's a lot to this.
I don't like. This makes my and maybe I'm also

(57:48):
at the age of like if I watch any romance
scenes with kids under like twenty, I immediately like, no,
uncomfortable because I shouldn't be watching this. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know, maybe anybody under thirty.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
I'll have to rewatch because I kind of was like,
they have a weird thing going on, but there's no
the no like physical romance happening for sure.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
Well, they yelling at each other saying, yeah, baby, are
you okay? Are you okay?

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Baby?

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Like they they're.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Obviously I wonder if he's like a groomer though I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Maybe I was supposed to be the conversation too, I
don't know, but it was just it just made me
like really unsubtled. I was like, not a fan, not
a fan.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Well, I mean that's also like a throwback to Samantha's
mom presumably was much older than Billy Lumos.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
But I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
And then very briefly I did mention that the first
four films are executive produced by Harvey Weinstein, and after
all the sexual allegations against him and the coach of
the Weinstein company, Spyglass Media Group purchased the rights to
the franchise, promising to nether make another that lasted for
all of one year, and they changed their mine. Interestingly,
Harvey Weinstein wanted them to make the fifth one an

(59:01):
end it prior to all the stuff coming out about him,
and that kind of surprised me because I.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Would be like after the third one maybe.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
But I guess he was very comfortable and that he
could continue to get away with things. But you know,
we talked about that in the Scream. Queen's one is
Rose McGowan a year later is when she alleged she
was raped by him, and then the whole thing with
the third one, and I know some of the cast
and crew have spoken out about it, so yeah, that's
a whole thing too when it comes to the meta

(59:33):
part and of these movies and like having that in
the back of your head when you're watching, especially the
third one, but all of them. Right, Yeah, Wow, Well
that was fun. I had a good time.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Oh good, good.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, you were so excited.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
I was, and I could keep going and going. But
it's already too long, So I recommend it if you
haven't seen it. I know slasher movies aren't for everybody,
so understand that, but if you're in any way interested,
I recommend it. And as always, if you have movies
suggestions for us, we would love to get them. You
can email us at stuffan You, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

(01:00:11):
Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You.
Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, Thank you,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told
your propection of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shifts