August 9, 2025 • 44 mins
Women-run communes hold a certain appeal for a lot of us for many reasons. We uncover the history of women led and women-only communities, and pontificate about what our own ideal community would look like in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Smantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome stuff, I'll Never Told you Protection by Heart video,
And I just got back from a summer trip I
do with some of my really old friends, and every
time I take that trip, I think of this episode
we did about building a community, you know, the dream
(00:30):
of having just your friends in an area and making
a community and being self sufficient and independent. And I
know we've been talking a lot about your garden, Samantha,
and I remember that was an important part of our
communities that we would design if we could have them.
And yes, I would love I would love it. It's
(00:53):
a wonderful idea. I swear every time around this year,
I'm like, be so nice. I only make it work. Yeah, yes,
Well as always, listeners, if you have a community that
you would like to describe to us, please write in.
But in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm not come to stepon Never Told You a Protection
of iHeart radio.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And welcome to today's episode, which is again featured by
me and my moment in life. Okay, and so therefore
I'm going to reflect with y'all because I've had some
thoughts in my head. Yeah, and if you've been around,
you know that I've been needing to do something. I
think I was like, I need some big change. Well,
(01:52):
I've actually been looking at purchasing a home recently, and
not just because I'm having a midlife crisis or a
crisis at all, but actually for living reasons, because you know,
rent is bad, it's Atlanta, everything is skyrocketing, and we're
trying to make life choices that are smart. Yeah, but
damn capitalism sucks. Indeed, indeed say just saying, and y'all
(02:19):
it's a whole endeavor. I'm sure many of you have
already passed this threshold of trying to buy a house.
I feel like it's called adulting. I'm not good at it.
I think I tweeted recently about the fact that I
actually had an anxiety attack after having a real conversation
with a professional about purchasing a home. Still thinking about
it makes my heart flutter a bit. And there's so
(02:40):
much to do, And to be honest, part of this
is like what if you know, scenarios like trying to
create the best case scenario for myself, not going in
too much debt, not going overboard, finding something that I
love all of these things, and one of the things
I've been trying to plot any I know you're very
well aware it is trying to have all my ladies
(03:02):
in an area with me, because that's something that I've
been thinking about a lot. In college, I had this,
and I don't know if you did. Of course, we
had roommates, but we had a little section where all
of our little friends were close to each other. It
wasn't just ladies, but just like we were all close
to each other and there was something to it. And
I loved being able to like relying on each other.
If we needed a company, it was there. If not,
(03:23):
we could go our separate ways. You know, all of that.
And again, you know, I'm like, what would it look
like if we try to make a community of our own. Yes,
I may or may not have been sending any houses
to look at and say would you live in.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
This with me?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's definitely you did do that, Absolutely that you did.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So I do have a partner that we will be
moving in together officially. But I was like, Annie, if
we got a basement apartment, would you come and hang
with us? And I've seriously been sending her pictures like, look,
this could be your place.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's true, that's true, And I'm like, how much Star
Wars decor?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Can I get away with.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
All of it?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Spot?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
It's your spot. And to be honest, like, it's been
a thing that we've talked about a lot, Caroline from
Unlady Likes previously from stuff Mom and never told you
and I have been talking about it for a while.
We're like, man, it would just be nice to be
close to each other but separate from each other, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And especially during.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
The quarantine when we were self locked down because Atlanta
wasn't doing that necessarily, it was like, you know, it
would be nice to be able to like sit across
porches and yell at each other.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, just have a porch, right again.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So this made us start wondering could it be possible
to create our own communities? And we know there are
some and we're going to talk more about it, but
before we start, Annie, if you could create your own community,
what would it look like?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I So, as you said, we've talked about this a
lot before, and we've talked about it on the podcast,
and several listeners have written in and said that this
idea really resonated with them that they've thought about it too,
and they gave like excellent reasons why, some like societal
and pressure reasons and some just fun reasons. So I
have thought about this for a while and I have
(05:16):
a pretty good vision in my head. But it's like
you know in movies when they have that like flashback
scene where you're remembering the better days and the light
is kind of soft, the focus is soft and bright.
So like I have this general vision, but it's not
I have it honed in on all the details, but
some key things I know.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I want a garden.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I want like a functioning, beautiful garden that we all
contribute to in one way or the other, because I
think you can help out in various ways. As you said,
I want together but separate. I want everyone to have
their own spaces and even maybe their own kitchens. Are
either a huge ass kitchen, right huge, because I feel
like a lot of tensions that happen in living situations
(05:58):
is based around the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So I want a big kitchen.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I want it to be somewhere that has a lot
of like greenery and maybe trails around and we can walk.
I want to be able to see stars at night,
like a lot of stars. If a water is close by,
that'd be nice, whether it's a river or anybody of water,
that'd be really nice.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Would like nice weather.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I like seasons, but like maybe not too strong of seasons,
because you know the.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Garden right right.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And I want to like theater area where we can
do like movies or plays or whatever. I thought about
having like a planetarium situation, but I think if the
stars are good enough and the planetariums overkill, and then
obviously some kind of like Star Wars area for me,
maybe that's in my own space, but that has to
exist somewhere. And then there would have to be like
(06:54):
a division of labor that we can agree upon all
those like logistics that I've really get into in this
like soft focused, beautiful, idealized version. But there would have
to be like some type of leadership thing and uh
or place to air grievance because.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I don't want to fall apart.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
It is really good.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta address those things or
else like the seeds of annoyance will sew and then
the whole thing falls apart.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Also, people are free to come and go they want.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I want it to be a very like peaceful experience, right, And.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You know what, that's You're not far off because a
lot of those conversations have happened.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And that same thing and the whole like being in
the open and seeing stars. That's actually a part of
the requirements that happened in the past.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
And we're gonna talk a little more about it. But
I know you and I have talked about this about
how we were going to be neighboring communes because we
were a little bit different in what we wanted. I
think we would share garden. I think they definitely would
need to share a garden. I do think of our
MySpace would have to be individual kitchens because yeah, law
of contingent happens about dirty dishes, who does what chores
and everybody can do it themselves. As long as it's
(08:06):
like reasonable as in like you're not bringing an infestation,
then it shouldn't be a big deal. Right, So my head,
my commune, Yeah, it's not just all women necessarily, but
understand that it's probably to be women run, which actually
exists today too, And we'll talk about that a little later. Yeah,
I really like the idea. Honestly, it's more about you know,
(08:28):
not necessarily commune, but the community, meaning we live there,
but we go and do our own thing. We can
sustain there, but we're also able to go buy the
Rito's if we want it. There's no shame in bringing
that in. Yes, of course I will need my TV
so I can keep watching all of my episodes on
repeat for my trauma Wi Fi important. Yes, and also
(08:49):
we would have therapists on hands. That was definitely another
part to that. It's that you need to do therapy,
whether it's once a month's check in, how are things going,
or once a week, let's get down to it. Like
that's my other big part to that. If you want family, wonderful,
we'll have that worked out. I feel like we should
create our own schools because I don't love what's happening
(09:12):
in public schools, especially in the South right now, with
also giving livable wages for teachers and therapists. So just saying,
just saying, maybe bring in my own doctor team to
like my own little healthcare team. Yeah, so that everybody
gets access to healthcare that is communal as well.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's funny because we briefly discussed this beforehand, very very briefly,
and Samantha was telling me all about her ideas and
I was like, where's the funding coming from? And She's like, don't.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Ask questions, don't worry about this.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You're right, Like I said, mine is also a soft, focused, beautiful,
idealized vision. I haven't hammered out the details.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I mean it may end up being like, yes, like
as if we are in a socialist country, we would
have not taxes, but we would fund to freely, Like okay,
half of this, but knowing that this takes care of
all of that, including education and da da da da
being a community.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right, But that's a whole different conversations.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
But yeah, so we do have all these ideas but
not necessarily true. But we also want to talk about
and look at some of the past communities and some
that are still here today and talk about what they
looked like and why it was important for that time,
and just talking about whether or not can they be
successful because they are kind of dying out. So a
(10:38):
big chunk of them actually started in the seventies or
late sixties thanks to second wave of feminism, which as
we know, didn't look great in the nineteen nineties, and
so a lot of shit went down. Maybe we should
go ahead and put a content warning. It's not we're
not getting into any deep specifics about people domestic violence
(11:01):
or abuse or anything, but we are going to talk
about them a little bit. We all are going to
mention turfs, because obviously when we talk about all women,
there's a lot of conversations to be had about it
as well. So if any of these things are like, eh,
it's too controversial right now, I don't want to deal
with it, I understand. Move on, here we go. So
(11:33):
before we start, let's talk about a little bit of history.
So in eighteen sixty there actually was a US community
started here. It started about Martha mcgwerter, who was a
Bible study leader who happened to be a confidant for
many unhappy married women who had no options. So during
this time, of course we know eighteen sixties even now,
(11:54):
actually in a lot of religious communities it is frowned
upon for women to leave their husbands, no matter how abusive,
no matter how bad it was, And she would often
be a confidant at these Bible studies which she led
for women who would tell her about all of the
bad things, a lot of them about alcoholism and their
husbands being abusive, but rating or neglectful in general, and
(12:17):
she would actually advise them and started off with like,
well cut them off. So she had these ideas and
today we'd be like, this is weaponizing some things. But
she did what she had to do, literally teaching women
what they had to do. They couldn't leave because at
that point in time, especially in the community that she
lived in in Texas, they would not allow for divorce
unless women proved that if they were to remain they
(12:40):
would die, and obviously it was hard to do that
because they would die. And even with that case, they
would still make them go back to their husbands after
a while by after chastising the husband or they would say, yeah,
you can get divorced, but you can never marry again.
You are there to support your family community no matter what.
You can't be married again. You have to sustain isolated,
(13:03):
which was a lot which was pretty difficult, saying that
women could not earn money. They really if they did
not have family to support them, they were in trouble.
So she was trying to say, okay, do these things,
trying to discipline the man to teach them a lesson.
It did not work out too well, so eventually she
was like, you know what, come on over, So she
started the Sanctified Sisters also known as the Sactificationists in
(13:27):
their household and then had women move into the household
with them while she cared for them, which later trans
into having another building that they opened up and it
was the first shelter to help women seeking refuge in
eighteen seventy five. And by the way, there's a lot
of stories about the fact that her and her husband
were pretty happy, but towards the end he started getting
a lot of backlash and was not too happy and
(13:49):
kind of bemoaned the situation, but she still did her thing.
He finally died and she took over the fortune and
was able to establish herself. So she said, whatever, I'm
going to keep doing this. Love it, love it, And
they were delivering services for battered women and later organized
the Women's Commonwealth of Belton in Texas. And by the way,
(14:10):
the town of Belton not huge fans. They blamed her
for the divorces and separations that happened. Really talked about
how she was enabling these women to turn away from
their husbands and sitting. But her legendary work remained and
even after her death it continued with the last member
of the Commonwealth died in nineteen eighty three, so over
(14:32):
one hundred years later. So go ahead. And as we
said earlier, the sixties and seventies were prime years for
a lot of these communities, and they were often referred
to as quote going back to the land, so kind
of your idea, as the communities were self sustaining communities
that would be placed back into the woods, away from
quote societies, so people couldn't see them or even noticed
(14:54):
it existed. They were able to have their own gardens
and have their own livelihoods without people inter fearing And
by the way, also the Commonwealth, the Women's Commonwealth, was
so beloved that it kept going. And as in fact,
some of our homes now some of them, some of
the communities reflect similar to what she had created. And
(15:17):
she became like a huge part of the community as
in she was I believe in office as some of
like big government local government things, so she was involved
and because she was actually a really smart businesswoman. Uh,
they really respected the fact that she could maintain hmmm
(15:38):
mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I think this idea of like going back to the
land for because it's almost like you're trying to get
away from the toxic things in society. You're kind of
like checking out from that aspect of it. So I
find that interesting. So the history collection dot com says
about these communities, quote, these are called Women's lands and
(16:01):
that's women spelled wom yn s well aproshapeus, you know
what I mean, And many of them still exist today.
They accept women of all races and religions. Some of
these communes were specifically made to house lesbians. Other communities
were meant to help women travelers who were brave enough
to venture across country alone and needed places to stay
(16:23):
where they felt safe. Considering how many women are still
attacked and killed when traveling alone and staying in cheap motels,
this kind of program would still be useful to this day.
Many of these places are filled with small cabins and shacks,
almost like a campsite, and all of the citizens have
to do their part to help keep the community going.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I'm sure there's past episodes about the women spelling womyn specifically,
but during the times they really were adamant that they
did not want men as part of their word, so
m in and say they put the y instead to
show their own autonomy and not as part of the
misogynistic patriarchal idea of existing under man. So just that.
(17:03):
So one of the biggest pluses for these communities is
for the women who did not have children or other
family members to help care for them as they grew older.
And I think about this often any as someone who
was childless, I'm like, oh my god, I'm going to
be alone, which is what my mother's fear was for me.
But communities like this allowed for women to grow together
with others and not having to be alone as In fact,
(17:24):
the original members of the Women's Comment Wealth were able
to retire together, moving from Texas to this DC because
they wanted to grow that community and wanted to do
in the Capitol. And in the nineties another group, older
Women's co Housing, had a similar idea where women living together,
learning together, helping each other financially and emotionally. Of course,
(17:45):
in the nineties they were like, we don't want to
be seen as feminists and hippies, so they try to
remove themselves from that conversation, even though their ideas were
very feminist. Yeah, just to go ahead put that there,
But yeah, this is something I think about too. It
was like getting older has been easier because I have
a collective of friends who don't have children themselves and
(18:07):
are able to be a little more accessible for me
as a single person when I'm saying, hey, let's go
get a drink or let's go hang out here, because
you know, children are work. We get that, and children
are beautiful and amazing, and I hope that never comes
across that we are anti children in any way. But
we know that it's a lot of work, and then
we know this has to be a build up, and
(18:28):
we know that oftentimes in a family heteronormative family, women
carried the brunt and burden of the load by choice
and sometimes not by choice. So that's something that we
do talk about. But there's also that hopefully, if you
have a good relationship with these children, they will take
care of you when you get to the point that
(18:49):
you need someone to care for you, which by the way,
is horrifying. As I'm aging, I'm like, oh my god,
that's scary. But for those who have not had children,
that's something we don't have, so if we don't have
family who takes care of you.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, that's definitely one of the appeals of the commune
idea for me is like I can be single, but
there are people around, yes to help that care about me, and.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
If I fall down, they can come and get me right.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
At least someone's gonna come check up on me. Which
is episode.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh wow, it all comes back to six in the
city every time. Yes, sure, we'll get to it, and
I'll have more thoughts then.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
So they want to talk more about some of the
communities that exist today. But I don't know if you
actually knew this. I did not know this. Arkansas has
a chunk of women intentional communities, or sometimes I call
them women communes. I guess communes have a whole different connotation.
(19:55):
Sometimes that's a whole different conversation again, but Arkansas has
chunk of it, and it has a lot to do
with Apparently, in the nineteen sixties nineteen seventies, some lands
were really really, really really cheap and easy to purchase,
so a lot of these lands were purchased that way.
Now a lot of these other communities, and the ones
we talk about in Arkansas seem to have something to
(20:17):
do with Native and Indigenous communities and them taking back
some of the land. So that's kind of a beautiful
thought too, But we did want to take a moment
to talk about them.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yes, so we have some quotes about these communities from
Arkansas starting with The specific values that bring women together
to form land communities vary from one community to the next.
The overarching commonalities include the importance of distinguishing women's communities
from patriarchal institutions by valuing women's contributions, encouraging women's empowerment,
(20:48):
and relying on consensus based decision making processes and non
hierarchical organization. Another common thread has been to provide space
for women to take on non conforming gender and leadership roles.
Environmental sustainability and preservation also are common goals, often grounded
in a synthesis of radical and eco feminist philosophies, emphasizing
that women should have an opportunity to quote live together
(21:10):
in harmony with the earth, with respect toward and growing
with her and one another right.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And I found that what they were saying, So this
all comes from one site who talked about their history,
and I loved it. So we wanted to talk about
why they're doing it and what it looked like, and
then talking about like specific communities.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right right, And there were several in Arkansas, yes, including
one intentional community still there today, the Santuario Arco Iris Centuario,
the Santuario Arco Iris and from the Encyclopedia of Arkansas
dot com, here's a bit about this community. Santuario Arco Iris,
an intentional land community located in Ponka Newton County near
(21:49):
the Buffalo National River in northwestern Arkansas, was founded by
Maria Cristina de Colores Morales, also known by her ceremonial
names Sunhawk and Aguila, originally as a sanctuary or sacred
land space for all women and children, particularly women and
children of color. Morols, who identifies as a so called
two spirit woman of Mexico and Indigenous American descent, has
(22:12):
lived on the Wilderness Preserve since nineteen seventy six. She
moved there with her five year old daughter, Jennifer. Her
partner from nineteen eighty two to twenty eleven, Miguela Borges,
was also instrumental in the development of Sanario Arcoiris and
its associated nonprofit organization, the arco Iris Earth Care Project
or the AIECP. Moroles prefers the Pan Indian term two
(22:35):
spirit to the term lesbian to describe a third or
non binary gender identification and sexual orientation that derives from
Native American ceremonial roles and culture.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, I would love to dig more into her because
she sounds amazing anyway, But yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I will drawing eclectically from various spiritual and ideological traditions.
Arco Iris we use eco feminist, Indigenous and American and
non Western concepts of sustainable environment and community, social justice,
and natural healing into its mission. As Marole stated Centuario,
arco Iris has served as a rural shelter for women
(23:11):
and children of color to regain our self respect and
self determination and heal from our personal and ancestral wounds.
We learned from nature how to be healthy women and
good parents and community members, recovering our indigenous culture, spiritual ways,
and remembering our matriarchal ceremonies to protect ourselves, our children,
and above all, Mother Earth. We started from scratch on
rural wilderness land, with no elders or community, no money,
(23:34):
no road, no homes, no infrastructure. We were poor, working
class women, survivors of every type of abuse and neglects,
and we made our way back home to our roots
and our mother and then it goes on. Never intended
as a strictly lesbian separatist settlement, arco Iris now welcomes
in its community both women and men with serious commitment
(23:56):
to its ideals of healing, social justice, and sustainability. Morols
and Borges reared both a daughter and a son on
the land, and a male cousin currently resides at arco
Iris with Maroles. Nevertheless, arco Iris remains rooted in philosophy
and programming and what has come to be known as
the Lesbian Land of movement also called the Land Dyke movement,
(24:16):
as well as in broader social and cultural movements for
indigenous people's rights, anti racism, alternative healing, and ecology.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Right, so this is apparently the entirety of this community
kind of came through splinters of older communities. It's fascinating
to me. I'm not really sure again, Like he talks
about who they bring in, what they're doing, but it's
obviously very specific and very focused, and I love that.
I love the idea of preservation for their community, indigenous
(24:45):
peoples and people of colors. So like, it's a beautiful
idea and I'm glad this still exists. I do wonder
how much it has dwindled, Like I said, it has
splintered throughout the years from the seventies, but a few
do exist. And speaking of which, I did not know
that there was one in Alabama? Did you?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I did not. I have seen.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
This is not really related, but I will mention there's
this place in Alabama near my grandparents' old beach house
called Bama Hinge, the Stone Hinge, but it's like made
of stier okay guardboard, And the first time I stumbled
across it, I was like, what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
What's happening here?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So, according to the site, because it exists, quote, Alipine
is home to a diverse group of women WMYN who
celebrate many spiritual pasts, pursue a variety of outdoor activities,
and enjoy vegetarian and gluten free to omnivorous diets. Residents
are full time, part time, or seasonal, and there are
some non resident lot owners. Dogs and cats are welcome,
(25:48):
with sub restrictions. We currently range in ages from fifties
to eighties, but welcome women of all ages. And by
the way, because we talked about this earlier and I
thought it's important high speed internet allow some members who
work from home. Many are retired. We are within an
hour of several large cities, so the whole like it's
still updated. So they exist. You can look at their site.
(26:09):
Alipine dot org is a L A P I n
E dot org. And if I'm saying that wrong, I apologize.
I don't know. Probably they have rooms for rents in
the village, so we may have to check this place out.
By the way, this is right there now research yeah,
right there in Alabama. And they were featured in one
of the articles that talk about women led organizations or
(26:33):
women led villages around the world and what they say
of this community in one hundred acres of rural northeastern
Alabama land. Since Alipine an all female community born out
of the nineteen seventies, a lesbian separatist movement, and that
continues to survive in Bible Belt America. Alipine only numbers
a dozen or so members these days. But what the
(26:54):
women have created here is not unique. And I am surprised.
Maybe it's because we don't know about it. We have
attend to it. There are apparently around one hundred lesbian
communities like Alipine around North America. Again, it's called Women's Land.
I think we've talked about that previously, and it has
co ops for women farm and women are the ones
who tend it as well as lead it. So it
(27:16):
is an interesting thing to see again, any I think
you and I may need to go check this spot out.
And yeah, there's several around the country that we talked about.
I know there's several I think in Australia that still exists.
There's a lot. I know we haven't dug into it,
but it is still kind of what we talked about.
How it's died out and may have everything to do
(27:37):
with the intersectional feminism that ha's existed today. One of
the big conversations that happened in the fragmenting of several
of these places are the exclusions of trans women and
we've seen that in festivals. We've talked about this before.
I know there's one home named after Susan B. Anthony.
That's a whole different conversation in itself, which did not
(27:59):
allow for trans communities to be a part of this area,
and then that kind of grew into trans communities building
their own communities, which I love the idea, which is
a lot more welcoming and loving. There's a whole other
conversation about what about non binary, how do we include them?
What does that look like, and how do we make
(28:20):
sure that we are providing a safe space for everyone
and including the non binary, but at the same time
trying to word it correctly. I guess for each area,
and I know that was a big part of conversations.
Again after a second wave feminism, we know there was
a lot of backlash, and so this is part of
(28:40):
the reason why they say these communities may be dying
out again lesbian only where they did ban all men,
which I don't hate, I don't hate. It was controversial
for a little while. Again that turf talk walked into
this as well, when we looked at how inclusively of
some of these communities world were not. There was a
(29:05):
lot of politics, unfortunately in an area that didn't want
a lot of politics.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Just to put in here, I think for a lot
of people, when you hear the word commune, which we've
been using, community a lot. But when when you think
of like the word commune, you associate, if you're like me,
you associate with cult or that at least there is
the danger.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Of that happening.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And I happen to know two men who have talked
to me about wanting to join a cult.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Not see I did it. I did it.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I wanted to join a commune. And my immediate, clearly.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Reaction was, are you sure that's not a cult? Right,
which I as we've said, I love this idea, but
there is I think a part of it is like
propaganda or media We've seen. I've watched a million horror movies.
It is sort of like living outside of the patriarchal system, right,
So I think there's been a lot of that, like
paint brush over it, and I guess it's been and
(30:14):
it's been very successful. And that's not to say there
isn't a danger because if you have like a very
when they say cults, and personality, like somebody who can
be very persuasive and lead these things. And I don't know,
because we also talked about that when we did Women
in Cults, where there we have it's a very fine
line between what you're demonizing as a cult versus what
(30:34):
is just living outside of the societal norms you're used to,
especially like Western Christian patriarchal societal norms for us in specific.
But I think that's an interesting part of this too,
is that you know, these politics, as you say, have
come into them and to what we want to be
these like you know, beautiful kind of free you can
(30:56):
finally be yourself and be free, and we can live
in harmony space. But there's also that kind of like outside,
like what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Right right? And you know, with all of that, there's
this level of conversation. Yes, they were not only seen
as communists, but because it was women ran, they were
also seen as hippies, which for the longest time had
a negative connotation to it, and it still does. It
still does, Like people use that as jokes, Oh, are
(31:26):
you a hippie? Now? Are you a hippie? Now? Right?
You like Patruli, all these things really ridiculous assumptions with
being a hippie, and some of these organizations have fallen
out of favor because of those labels and titles, as
well as the fact that for some reason, I think
maybe the last three years has changed this, but for
(31:48):
a while they're like, eh, we don't need feminism as much,
that whole level of like we're good now women have rice.
What are you talking about? We're just like yeah, no,
And maybe it's according to what part of social media
you're on, what part of the movies, or what part
(32:11):
of you know, gaming industry you're in, But you realize
very quickly, no, it's not gone. And this is why
people are asking for a safe space, a place to
be able to grow with each other. And on top
of that, I think a lot of again we've talked
about this before as an introductory to you and I
(32:33):
about mentorship. We don't have a lot of women that
we look up to today because we have grown up
in a different era where than our parents, than our aunts.
Who again, my mother wanted to be a mother at fourteen,
she was ready like that was her goal, Like not goal,
but that was her happiness. And she she loves being
a mother, she loves being the wife, She loves having
(32:55):
her family that defined her that was never me. And
trying to figure out who do I look up to,
who do I talk to, who do I seek? And
again also being a person of color, all different things.
I'm like, I don't want to look up to white women.
I'm sorry white women, y'all are amazing, but you know
what I mean, Like there's this level of like they
don't understand the hardships and I need to know how
(33:17):
to navigate my life. And for the most part, like
my friends, books and people that I have trusted, whether
it's teachers or people that I've read through, they have
been those people. But that was kind of the attraction
of some of these communes slash communities was to have
mentorship level. As in fact, one such place was called
(33:38):
the Huntington Open Women's Land, which is in Vermont, and
as in fact, they were featured in two articles as
they were kind of I don't know, dying out but
had less and less people. I think these both of
these articles came in twenty nineteen. Maybe there was a
plug that happened for them trying to create an open environment.
But their intention was to bring younger women into this
(34:03):
land and to mentor to shape young women, and to
prepare them for the world that is so centered around
misogynistic ideals. I've kind of lost that, and I'm kind
of sad about that. I really wish because I will
say there's something to being able to be with a
group of women and to bond.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Absolutely, there's something kind of oh liberating, especially if it's
a group of women that is in your like same
kind of mindsets and you feel like you don't have
to put up these appearances or performances. And also just
the other day I saw an article, and every now
and then there's something I'm like, we're still talking about this,
(34:45):
but it was about why are we so afraid of
single women? And I think that's another reason why we're
kind of like, or at least mainstream media is like,
why are all these women living and by them so right?
They're living in communities of just women.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
It's wrong.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So there's like that air of you know, like homophobia,
but also just fear around women kind of opting out
of society, which we've talked about a lot. But I
do think, yeah, that is when I think about my
ideal commune, it is like full of my friends and
full of like the support and just sort of being
(35:29):
able to be yourself totally right right and not feel
like you have to act in a certain way that
is not your self right.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
As in fact, part of reading all of these older
generation of women who did these they talked about that
this was about self preservation. The reason the lesbian communes
slash lesbian communities were so big was because they found
a safe space to love who they can love. And
I hate that that's where we're going back to and
we may need them again because we see all these
(36:00):
anti LGBTQ plus policies. Thats going in place and no
one's stopping them. But a part of the reasons that
these communities happens for the safety of those in the
queer community, as well as the safety for those who
have been assaulted and have gone through some things. When
I said previously in a different episode, not all men,
(36:20):
but all men, that's what we're talking about, not necessarily
with the lesbian community, but the whole safety aspect is
we can't be mistaken that you're not going to be
one of those men. And I say you and the
general men in general, that just because you may not
be the one that does something to a woman or
(36:41):
to someone doesn't mean that it's not going to happen
and doesn't mean another man won't do it. So it's
just safer for women to assume all men are going
to do it until you are in our trust, and
even then people break our trust. And that's kind at
that whole level. Now, not that abuse doesn't happen within
(37:03):
the lesbian community, we know it does. We know abuse
happens in the queer community. We know that it's not
talked about enough, and we need to be able to
give safe spaces to that as well. But what we're
looking at is why these female centric communities were so
important and are still kind of important, and why we
need to learn from them, and why we need to
(37:23):
look at them still as a possible option. That's just
my opinion. I know, I know that's my opinion. But
I did want to also give some examples of other communities,
women led communities, so not necessarily like all women we
haven't just been talking about all women only communities, but
that that have been successful and why they exist. So
this actually came from Wonderingourworld dot com. And I really
(37:47):
don't know how old this article is, y'all. I kind
of try to look for it. I think it's fairly newer.
So I'm hoping that they still exist because that would
make me happy. But I want to give some examples
of some women led or all women communities that are
thriving around the world, one of them being Umoja Village,
(38:11):
where not only are the women in charge, but they
are the only inhabitants. Literally, men are forbidden so from
the site it says. Umoja, situated in the grasslands of
northern Kenya, was set up by fifteen women in nineteen
ninety as a refuge after suffering horrendous sexual violence at
the hands of British soldiers. Finding themselves homeless after being
(38:33):
forced out of their homes by husbands who did not
want a wife who had been raped, these brave women
set up their own village where violence and men were banned,
and then later they started taking in children and children
with HIV so abandoned children were allowed in three decades
on and the community members are around two hundred and
fifty women and children. They've continued to take in women
(38:55):
fleeing female genital mutilation as well as those seeking safety
after suffering assault and rape. The women all members of
the Samburu So Sorry people now live in a completely
different life from those who live around them. They make
community decisions together, have jobs and earn income, and live
without fear of male violence or of FGM so love that,
(39:21):
I'm like, I want to go to there. And then
we have Nueva del Cordero and I'm so sorry if
I just butchered all that and almost all female Brazilian
town founded in the eighteen nineties, which continues to grow
from strength to strength and now has a population of
six hundred. So apparently it started off because a Brazilian
(39:41):
woman named Maria Sinorina de Lima set up this town
after she was accused of adultery after leaving a forced
marriage and was excommunicated. She wanted to do all this
in order to create a haven for women where men
could not control them. So the tach That town is
in the southeast of Brazil, which continues to exist today,
(40:05):
populated by hundreds of women who work the land and
work for each other. The community believes their town is
more organized and peaceful than if men were in charge.
I probably agree. Some of the residents are married, but
their husbands almost all work in the large cities far
from the village, so only managed to return on the weekends.
Oh my god, I might have to go to there.
(40:26):
And it is pretty much run by the women only
and men are allowed to live in the town as
long as they abide by the Female Lead World Book.
I'm gonna have to go to theirs. I'm gonna have
to go. And then just one more, because I love
all of these. We wanted to talk about the women
of Jinwar. As it says in the Sight Out of
the Ruins of the Syrian War, a group of women
(40:49):
who suffered at the hands of the ISIS brutality have
created an all female village and refuge calle Jinwar, based
in the north of Kurdish controlled Syria called Rajava. The
village was founded in twenty seventeen and the women saw
it as an opportunity to create their own self sustainable
community living off the land. The women of Jinwar believe
(41:09):
they must separate themselves from the male dominated violence in
the country and equality between men and women in Syria,
and they did this in hopes that they could live
the full to their lives, the potential of their life.
And they've have some few documentaries and seeming lead are
doing well and I love to see it. Of course,
this is obviously a very new five years old at most. Yeah,
(41:30):
I would love to hear more about how they have
been able to sustain and continue in a war ravished area.
I know we've talked about the Syrian refugees before and
I would like to see what is happening, but we're
very limited. But we want to celebrate the fact that
they were able to do so and take in control
(41:50):
of their lives because it's amazing and we need so
many more examples of that.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's definitely been the theme throughout
and I think even when we heard from you listeners,
because I know we mentioned it and I believe our
feminist movie Friday on Film and Luise, yeah, and we
talked about that kind of them living outside of society,
and you know, that's kind of a whole it's different
but related idea of there are these problems, there are
(42:22):
these injustices that are written into our laws and just
society in general, as marginalized people and as women as
we've been talking about in here, and why it appeals
to people to live outside of that. Why this is
an appealing idea for a lot of us, I think
(42:43):
is that and we've seen that kind of thread throughout
in all of these examples, and of course, as you said,
so we've said throughout there are problems too, Like there's
still none of us are completely immune from this, like
the biases we've been raised with.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
But it is.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Very interesting to me to see these examples and to
hear these like commonalities and why they exist, which also
speaks to like a lot of issues we need to
fix in society at large.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
But yeah, that's right, that is interesting.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
And like we said, we don't know exactly what all
is happening in the world today, but it continues. Yeah,
s Minty, I think we need we need to do.
I think we need to create our own community.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yes, Oh my gosh, you know what we need listeners, right?
And what what do we need? What is integral in
this s Minty community? Uh, we need to know what's
your ideal ideal commune slash community and if there's something
we missed that we should talk about, please let us know.
(43:51):
You can email us a steppid mom Stuff at iheartmeia
dot com. You can find us on Instagram at stuff
I've Never Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
You were absolutely a part of this community, so you
need to tell us what you need.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yes, Christina, get back to us on that and thanks
to you for listening stuff I never told the projection
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or regular listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Smantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome stuff, I'll Never Told you Protection by Heart video,
And I just got back from a summer trip I
do with some of my really old friends, and every
time I take that trip, I think of this episode
we did about building a community, you know, the dream
(00:30):
of having just your friends in an area and making
a community and being self sufficient and independent. And I
know we've been talking a lot about your garden, Samantha,
and I remember that was an important part of our
communities that we would design if we could have them.
And yes, I would love I would love it. It's
(00:53):
a wonderful idea. I swear every time around this year,
I'm like, be so nice. I only make it work. Yeah, yes,
Well as always, listeners, if you have a community that
you would like to describe to us, please write in.
But in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm not come to stepon Never Told You a Protection
of iHeart radio.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And welcome to today's episode, which is again featured by
me and my moment in life. Okay, and so therefore
I'm going to reflect with y'all because I've had some
thoughts in my head. Yeah, and if you've been around,
you know that I've been needing to do something. I
think I was like, I need some big change. Well,
(01:52):
I've actually been looking at purchasing a home recently, and
not just because I'm having a midlife crisis or a
crisis at all, but actually for living reasons, because you know,
rent is bad, it's Atlanta, everything is skyrocketing, and we're
trying to make life choices that are smart. Yeah, but
damn capitalism sucks. Indeed, indeed say just saying, and y'all
(02:19):
it's a whole endeavor. I'm sure many of you have
already passed this threshold of trying to buy a house.
I feel like it's called adulting. I'm not good at it.
I think I tweeted recently about the fact that I
actually had an anxiety attack after having a real conversation
with a professional about purchasing a home. Still thinking about
it makes my heart flutter a bit. And there's so
(02:40):
much to do, And to be honest, part of this
is like what if you know, scenarios like trying to
create the best case scenario for myself, not going in
too much debt, not going overboard, finding something that I
love all of these things, and one of the things
I've been trying to plot any I know you're very
well aware it is trying to have all my ladies
(03:02):
in an area with me, because that's something that I've
been thinking about a lot. In college, I had this,
and I don't know if you did. Of course, we
had roommates, but we had a little section where all
of our little friends were close to each other. It
wasn't just ladies, but just like we were all close
to each other and there was something to it. And
I loved being able to like relying on each other.
If we needed a company, it was there. If not,
(03:23):
we could go our separate ways. You know, all of that.
And again, you know, I'm like, what would it look
like if we try to make a community of our own. Yes,
I may or may not have been sending any houses
to look at and say would you live in.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
This with me?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's definitely you did do that, Absolutely that you did.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So I do have a partner that we will be
moving in together officially. But I was like, Annie, if
we got a basement apartment, would you come and hang
with us? And I've seriously been sending her pictures like, look,
this could be your place.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's true, that's true, And I'm like, how much Star
Wars decor?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Can I get away with.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
All of it?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Spot?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
It's your spot. And to be honest, like, it's been
a thing that we've talked about a lot, Caroline from
Unlady Likes previously from stuff Mom and never told you
and I have been talking about it for a while.
We're like, man, it would just be nice to be
close to each other but separate from each other, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And especially during.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
The quarantine when we were self locked down because Atlanta
wasn't doing that necessarily, it was like, you know, it
would be nice to be able to like sit across
porches and yell at each other.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, just have a porch, right again.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So this made us start wondering could it be possible
to create our own communities? And we know there are
some and we're going to talk more about it, but
before we start, Annie, if you could create your own community,
what would it look like?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I So, as you said, we've talked about this a
lot before, and we've talked about it on the podcast,
and several listeners have written in and said that this
idea really resonated with them that they've thought about it too,
and they gave like excellent reasons why, some like societal
and pressure reasons and some just fun reasons. So I
have thought about this for a while and I have
(05:16):
a pretty good vision in my head. But it's like
you know in movies when they have that like flashback
scene where you're remembering the better days and the light
is kind of soft, the focus is soft and bright.
So like I have this general vision, but it's not
I have it honed in on all the details, but
some key things I know.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I want a garden.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I want like a functioning, beautiful garden that we all
contribute to in one way or the other, because I
think you can help out in various ways. As you said,
I want together but separate. I want everyone to have
their own spaces and even maybe their own kitchens. Are
either a huge ass kitchen, right huge, because I feel
like a lot of tensions that happen in living situations
(05:58):
is based around the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So I want a big kitchen.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I want it to be somewhere that has a lot
of like greenery and maybe trails around and we can walk.
I want to be able to see stars at night,
like a lot of stars. If a water is close by,
that'd be nice, whether it's a river or anybody of water,
that'd be really nice.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Would like nice weather.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I like seasons, but like maybe not too strong of seasons,
because you know the.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Garden right right.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And I want to like theater area where we can
do like movies or plays or whatever. I thought about
having like a planetarium situation, but I think if the
stars are good enough and the planetariums overkill, and then
obviously some kind of like Star Wars area for me,
maybe that's in my own space, but that has to
exist somewhere. And then there would have to be like
(06:54):
a division of labor that we can agree upon all
those like logistics that I've really get into in this
like soft focused, beautiful, idealized version. But there would have
to be like some type of leadership thing and uh
or place to air grievance because.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I don't want to fall apart.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
It is really good.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta address those things or
else like the seeds of annoyance will sew and then
the whole thing falls apart.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Also, people are free to come and go they want.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I want it to be a very like peaceful experience, right, And.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You know what, that's You're not far off because a
lot of those conversations have happened.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And that same thing and the whole like being in
the open and seeing stars. That's actually a part of
the requirements that happened in the past.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
And we're gonna talk a little more about it. But
I know you and I have talked about this about
how we were going to be neighboring communes because we
were a little bit different in what we wanted. I
think we would share garden. I think they definitely would
need to share a garden. I do think of our
MySpace would have to be individual kitchens because yeah, law
of contingent happens about dirty dishes, who does what chores
and everybody can do it themselves. As long as it's
(08:06):
like reasonable as in like you're not bringing an infestation,
then it shouldn't be a big deal. Right, So my head,
my commune, Yeah, it's not just all women necessarily, but
understand that it's probably to be women run, which actually
exists today too, And we'll talk about that a little later. Yeah,
I really like the idea. Honestly, it's more about you know,
(08:28):
not necessarily commune, but the community, meaning we live there,
but we go and do our own thing. We can
sustain there, but we're also able to go buy the
Rito's if we want it. There's no shame in bringing
that in. Yes, of course I will need my TV
so I can keep watching all of my episodes on
repeat for my trauma Wi Fi important. Yes, and also
(08:49):
we would have therapists on hands. That was definitely another
part to that. It's that you need to do therapy,
whether it's once a month's check in, how are things going,
or once a week, let's get down to it. Like
that's my other big part to that. If you want family, wonderful,
we'll have that worked out. I feel like we should
create our own schools because I don't love what's happening
(09:12):
in public schools, especially in the South right now, with
also giving livable wages for teachers and therapists. So just saying,
just saying, maybe bring in my own doctor team to
like my own little healthcare team. Yeah, so that everybody
gets access to healthcare that is communal as well.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's funny because we briefly discussed this beforehand, very very briefly,
and Samantha was telling me all about her ideas and
I was like, where's the funding coming from? And She's like, don't.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Ask questions, don't worry about this.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You're right, Like I said, mine is also a soft, focused, beautiful,
idealized vision. I haven't hammered out the details.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I mean it may end up being like, yes, like
as if we are in a socialist country, we would
have not taxes, but we would fund to freely, Like okay,
half of this, but knowing that this takes care of
all of that, including education and da da da da
being a community.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right, But that's a whole different conversations.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
But yeah, so we do have all these ideas but
not necessarily true. But we also want to talk about
and look at some of the past communities and some
that are still here today and talk about what they
looked like and why it was important for that time,
and just talking about whether or not can they be
successful because they are kind of dying out. So a
(10:38):
big chunk of them actually started in the seventies or
late sixties thanks to second wave of feminism, which as
we know, didn't look great in the nineteen nineties, and
so a lot of shit went down. Maybe we should
go ahead and put a content warning. It's not we're
not getting into any deep specifics about people domestic violence
(11:01):
or abuse or anything, but we are going to talk
about them a little bit. We all are going to
mention turfs, because obviously when we talk about all women,
there's a lot of conversations to be had about it
as well. So if any of these things are like, eh,
it's too controversial right now, I don't want to deal
with it, I understand. Move on, here we go. So
(11:33):
before we start, let's talk about a little bit of history.
So in eighteen sixty there actually was a US community
started here. It started about Martha mcgwerter, who was a
Bible study leader who happened to be a confidant for
many unhappy married women who had no options. So during
this time, of course we know eighteen sixties even now,
(11:54):
actually in a lot of religious communities it is frowned
upon for women to leave their husbands, no matter how abusive,
no matter how bad it was, And she would often
be a confidant at these Bible studies which she led
for women who would tell her about all of the
bad things, a lot of them about alcoholism and their
husbands being abusive, but rating or neglectful in general, and
(12:17):
she would actually advise them and started off with like,
well cut them off. So she had these ideas and
today we'd be like, this is weaponizing some things. But
she did what she had to do, literally teaching women
what they had to do. They couldn't leave because at
that point in time, especially in the community that she
lived in in Texas, they would not allow for divorce
unless women proved that if they were to remain they
(12:40):
would die, and obviously it was hard to do that
because they would die. And even with that case, they
would still make them go back to their husbands after
a while by after chastising the husband or they would say, yeah,
you can get divorced, but you can never marry again.
You are there to support your family community no matter what.
You can't be married again. You have to sustain isolated,
(13:03):
which was a lot which was pretty difficult, saying that
women could not earn money. They really if they did
not have family to support them, they were in trouble.
So she was trying to say, okay, do these things,
trying to discipline the man to teach them a lesson.
It did not work out too well, so eventually she
was like, you know what, come on over, So she
started the Sanctified Sisters also known as the Sactificationists in
(13:27):
their household and then had women move into the household
with them while she cared for them, which later trans
into having another building that they opened up and it
was the first shelter to help women seeking refuge in
eighteen seventy five. And by the way, there's a lot
of stories about the fact that her and her husband
were pretty happy, but towards the end he started getting
a lot of backlash and was not too happy and
(13:49):
kind of bemoaned the situation, but she still did her thing.
He finally died and she took over the fortune and
was able to establish herself. So she said, whatever, I'm
going to keep doing this. Love it, love it, And
they were delivering services for battered women and later organized
the Women's Commonwealth of Belton in Texas. And by the way,
(14:10):
the town of Belton not huge fans. They blamed her
for the divorces and separations that happened. Really talked about
how she was enabling these women to turn away from
their husbands and sitting. But her legendary work remained and
even after her death it continued with the last member
of the Commonwealth died in nineteen eighty three, so over
(14:32):
one hundred years later. So go ahead. And as we
said earlier, the sixties and seventies were prime years for
a lot of these communities, and they were often referred
to as quote going back to the land, so kind
of your idea, as the communities were self sustaining communities
that would be placed back into the woods, away from
quote societies, so people couldn't see them or even noticed
(14:54):
it existed. They were able to have their own gardens
and have their own livelihoods without people inter fearing And
by the way, also the Commonwealth, the Women's Commonwealth, was
so beloved that it kept going. And as in fact,
some of our homes now some of them, some of
the communities reflect similar to what she had created. And
(15:17):
she became like a huge part of the community as
in she was I believe in office as some of
like big government local government things, so she was involved
and because she was actually a really smart businesswoman. Uh,
they really respected the fact that she could maintain hmmm
(15:38):
mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I think this idea of like going back to the
land for because it's almost like you're trying to get
away from the toxic things in society. You're kind of
like checking out from that aspect of it. So I
find that interesting. So the history collection dot com says
about these communities, quote, these are called Women's lands and
(16:01):
that's women spelled wom yn s well aproshapeus, you know
what I mean, And many of them still exist today.
They accept women of all races and religions. Some of
these communes were specifically made to house lesbians. Other communities
were meant to help women travelers who were brave enough
to venture across country alone and needed places to stay
(16:23):
where they felt safe. Considering how many women are still
attacked and killed when traveling alone and staying in cheap motels,
this kind of program would still be useful to this day.
Many of these places are filled with small cabins and shacks,
almost like a campsite, and all of the citizens have
to do their part to help keep the community going.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I'm sure there's past episodes about the women spelling womyn specifically,
but during the times they really were adamant that they
did not want men as part of their word, so
m in and say they put the y instead to
show their own autonomy and not as part of the
misogynistic patriarchal idea of existing under man. So just that.
(17:03):
So one of the biggest pluses for these communities is
for the women who did not have children or other
family members to help care for them as they grew older.
And I think about this often any as someone who
was childless, I'm like, oh my god, I'm going to
be alone, which is what my mother's fear was for me.
But communities like this allowed for women to grow together
with others and not having to be alone as In fact,
(17:24):
the original members of the Women's Comment Wealth were able
to retire together, moving from Texas to this DC because
they wanted to grow that community and wanted to do
in the Capitol. And in the nineties another group, older
Women's co Housing, had a similar idea where women living together,
learning together, helping each other financially and emotionally. Of course,
(17:45):
in the nineties they were like, we don't want to
be seen as feminists and hippies, so they try to
remove themselves from that conversation, even though their ideas were
very feminist. Yeah, just to go ahead put that there,
But yeah, this is something I think about too. It
was like getting older has been easier because I have
a collective of friends who don't have children themselves and
(18:07):
are able to be a little more accessible for me
as a single person when I'm saying, hey, let's go
get a drink or let's go hang out here, because
you know, children are work. We get that, and children
are beautiful and amazing, and I hope that never comes
across that we are anti children in any way. But
we know that it's a lot of work, and then
we know this has to be a build up, and
(18:28):
we know that oftentimes in a family heteronormative family, women
carried the brunt and burden of the load by choice
and sometimes not by choice. So that's something that we
do talk about. But there's also that hopefully, if you
have a good relationship with these children, they will take
care of you when you get to the point that
(18:49):
you need someone to care for you, which by the way,
is horrifying. As I'm aging, I'm like, oh my god,
that's scary. But for those who have not had children,
that's something we don't have, so if we don't have
family who takes care of you.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, that's definitely one of the appeals of the commune
idea for me is like I can be single, but
there are people around, yes to help that care about me, and.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
If I fall down, they can come and get me right.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
At least someone's gonna come check up on me. Which
is episode.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh wow, it all comes back to six in the
city every time. Yes, sure, we'll get to it, and
I'll have more thoughts then.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
So they want to talk more about some of the
communities that exist today. But I don't know if you
actually knew this. I did not know this. Arkansas has
a chunk of women intentional communities, or sometimes I call
them women communes. I guess communes have a whole different connotation.
(19:55):
Sometimes that's a whole different conversation again, but Arkansas has
chunk of it, and it has a lot to do
with Apparently, in the nineteen sixties nineteen seventies, some lands
were really really, really really cheap and easy to purchase,
so a lot of these lands were purchased that way.
Now a lot of these other communities, and the ones
we talk about in Arkansas seem to have something to
(20:17):
do with Native and Indigenous communities and them taking back
some of the land. So that's kind of a beautiful
thought too, But we did want to take a moment
to talk about them.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yes, so we have some quotes about these communities from
Arkansas starting with The specific values that bring women together
to form land communities vary from one community to the next.
The overarching commonalities include the importance of distinguishing women's communities
from patriarchal institutions by valuing women's contributions, encouraging women's empowerment,
(20:48):
and relying on consensus based decision making processes and non
hierarchical organization. Another common thread has been to provide space
for women to take on non conforming gender and leadership roles.
Environmental sustainability and preservation also are common goals, often grounded
in a synthesis of radical and eco feminist philosophies, emphasizing
that women should have an opportunity to quote live together
(21:10):
in harmony with the earth, with respect toward and growing
with her and one another right.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And I found that what they were saying, So this
all comes from one site who talked about their history,
and I loved it. So we wanted to talk about
why they're doing it and what it looked like, and
then talking about like specific communities.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right right, And there were several in Arkansas, yes, including
one intentional community still there today, the Santuario Arco Iris Centuario,
the Santuario Arco Iris and from the Encyclopedia of Arkansas
dot com, here's a bit about this community. Santuario Arco Iris,
an intentional land community located in Ponka Newton County near
(21:49):
the Buffalo National River in northwestern Arkansas, was founded by
Maria Cristina de Colores Morales, also known by her ceremonial
names Sunhawk and Aguila, originally as a sanctuary or sacred
land space for all women and children, particularly women and
children of color. Morols, who identifies as a so called
two spirit woman of Mexico and Indigenous American descent, has
(22:12):
lived on the Wilderness Preserve since nineteen seventy six. She
moved there with her five year old daughter, Jennifer. Her
partner from nineteen eighty two to twenty eleven, Miguela Borges,
was also instrumental in the development of Sanario Arcoiris and
its associated nonprofit organization, the arco Iris Earth Care Project
or the AIECP. Moroles prefers the Pan Indian term two
(22:35):
spirit to the term lesbian to describe a third or
non binary gender identification and sexual orientation that derives from
Native American ceremonial roles and culture.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, I would love to dig more into her because
she sounds amazing anyway, But yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I will drawing eclectically from various spiritual and ideological traditions.
Arco Iris we use eco feminist, Indigenous and American and
non Western concepts of sustainable environment and community, social justice,
and natural healing into its mission. As Marole stated Centuario,
arco Iris has served as a rural shelter for women
(23:11):
and children of color to regain our self respect and
self determination and heal from our personal and ancestral wounds.
We learned from nature how to be healthy women and
good parents and community members, recovering our indigenous culture, spiritual ways,
and remembering our matriarchal ceremonies to protect ourselves, our children,
and above all, Mother Earth. We started from scratch on
rural wilderness land, with no elders or community, no money,
(23:34):
no road, no homes, no infrastructure. We were poor, working
class women, survivors of every type of abuse and neglects,
and we made our way back home to our roots
and our mother and then it goes on. Never intended
as a strictly lesbian separatist settlement, arco Iris now welcomes
in its community both women and men with serious commitment
(23:56):
to its ideals of healing, social justice, and sustainability. Morols
and Borges reared both a daughter and a son on
the land, and a male cousin currently resides at arco
Iris with Maroles. Nevertheless, arco Iris remains rooted in philosophy
and programming and what has come to be known as
the Lesbian Land of movement also called the Land Dyke movement,
(24:16):
as well as in broader social and cultural movements for
indigenous people's rights, anti racism, alternative healing, and ecology.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Right, so this is apparently the entirety of this community
kind of came through splinters of older communities. It's fascinating
to me. I'm not really sure again, Like he talks
about who they bring in, what they're doing, but it's
obviously very specific and very focused, and I love that.
I love the idea of preservation for their community, indigenous
(24:45):
peoples and people of colors. So like, it's a beautiful
idea and I'm glad this still exists. I do wonder
how much it has dwindled, Like I said, it has
splintered throughout the years from the seventies, but a few
do exist. And speaking of which, I did not know
that there was one in Alabama? Did you?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I did not. I have seen.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
This is not really related, but I will mention there's
this place in Alabama near my grandparents' old beach house
called Bama Hinge, the Stone Hinge, but it's like made
of stier okay guardboard, And the first time I stumbled
across it, I was like, what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
What's happening here?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So, according to the site, because it exists, quote, Alipine
is home to a diverse group of women WMYN who
celebrate many spiritual pasts, pursue a variety of outdoor activities,
and enjoy vegetarian and gluten free to omnivorous diets. Residents
are full time, part time, or seasonal, and there are
some non resident lot owners. Dogs and cats are welcome,
(25:48):
with sub restrictions. We currently range in ages from fifties
to eighties, but welcome women of all ages. And by
the way, because we talked about this earlier and I
thought it's important high speed internet allow some members who
work from home. Many are retired. We are within an
hour of several large cities, so the whole like it's
still updated. So they exist. You can look at their site.
(26:09):
Alipine dot org is a L A P I n
E dot org. And if I'm saying that wrong, I apologize.
I don't know. Probably they have rooms for rents in
the village, so we may have to check this place out.
By the way, this is right there now research yeah,
right there in Alabama. And they were featured in one
of the articles that talk about women led organizations or
(26:33):
women led villages around the world and what they say
of this community in one hundred acres of rural northeastern
Alabama land. Since Alipine an all female community born out
of the nineteen seventies, a lesbian separatist movement, and that
continues to survive in Bible Belt America. Alipine only numbers
a dozen or so members these days. But what the
(26:54):
women have created here is not unique. And I am surprised.
Maybe it's because we don't know about it. We have
attend to it. There are apparently around one hundred lesbian
communities like Alipine around North America. Again, it's called Women's Land.
I think we've talked about that previously, and it has
co ops for women farm and women are the ones
who tend it as well as lead it. So it
(27:16):
is an interesting thing to see again, any I think
you and I may need to go check this spot out.
And yeah, there's several around the country that we talked about.
I know there's several I think in Australia that still exists.
There's a lot. I know we haven't dug into it,
but it is still kind of what we talked about.
How it's died out and may have everything to do
(27:37):
with the intersectional feminism that ha's existed today. One of
the big conversations that happened in the fragmenting of several
of these places are the exclusions of trans women and
we've seen that in festivals. We've talked about this before.
I know there's one home named after Susan B. Anthony.
That's a whole different conversation in itself, which did not
(27:59):
allow for trans communities to be a part of this area,
and then that kind of grew into trans communities building
their own communities, which I love the idea, which is
a lot more welcoming and loving. There's a whole other
conversation about what about non binary, how do we include them?
What does that look like, and how do we make
(28:20):
sure that we are providing a safe space for everyone
and including the non binary, but at the same time
trying to word it correctly. I guess for each area,
and I know that was a big part of conversations.
Again after a second wave feminism, we know there was
a lot of backlash, and so this is part of
(28:40):
the reason why they say these communities may be dying
out again lesbian only where they did ban all men,
which I don't hate, I don't hate. It was controversial
for a little while. Again that turf talk walked into
this as well, when we looked at how inclusively of
some of these communities world were not. There was a
(29:05):
lot of politics, unfortunately in an area that didn't want
a lot of politics.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Just to put in here, I think for a lot
of people, when you hear the word commune, which we've
been using, community a lot. But when when you think
of like the word commune, you associate, if you're like me,
you associate with cult or that at least there is
the danger.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Of that happening.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And I happen to know two men who have talked
to me about wanting to join a cult.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Not see I did it. I did it.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I wanted to join a commune. And my immediate, clearly.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Reaction was, are you sure that's not a cult? Right,
which I as we've said, I love this idea, but
there is I think a part of it is like
propaganda or media We've seen. I've watched a million horror movies.
It is sort of like living outside of the patriarchal system, right,
So I think there's been a lot of that, like
paint brush over it, and I guess it's been and
(30:14):
it's been very successful. And that's not to say there
isn't a danger because if you have like a very
when they say cults, and personality, like somebody who can
be very persuasive and lead these things. And I don't know,
because we also talked about that when we did Women
in Cults, where there we have it's a very fine
line between what you're demonizing as a cult versus what
(30:34):
is just living outside of the societal norms you're used to,
especially like Western Christian patriarchal societal norms for us in specific.
But I think that's an interesting part of this too,
is that you know, these politics, as you say, have
come into them and to what we want to be
these like you know, beautiful kind of free you can
(30:56):
finally be yourself and be free, and we can live
in harmony space. But there's also that kind of like outside,
like what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Right right? And you know, with all of that, there's
this level of conversation. Yes, they were not only seen
as communists, but because it was women ran, they were
also seen as hippies, which for the longest time had
a negative connotation to it, and it still does. It
still does, Like people use that as jokes, Oh, are
(31:26):
you a hippie? Now? Are you a hippie? Now? Right?
You like Patruli, all these things really ridiculous assumptions with
being a hippie, and some of these organizations have fallen
out of favor because of those labels and titles, as
well as the fact that for some reason, I think
maybe the last three years has changed this, but for
(31:48):
a while they're like, eh, we don't need feminism as much,
that whole level of like we're good now women have rice.
What are you talking about? We're just like yeah, no,
And maybe it's according to what part of social media
you're on, what part of the movies, or what part
(32:11):
of you know, gaming industry you're in, But you realize
very quickly, no, it's not gone. And this is why
people are asking for a safe space, a place to
be able to grow with each other. And on top
of that, I think a lot of again we've talked
about this before as an introductory to you and I
(32:33):
about mentorship. We don't have a lot of women that
we look up to today because we have grown up
in a different era where than our parents, than our aunts.
Who again, my mother wanted to be a mother at fourteen,
she was ready like that was her goal, Like not goal,
but that was her happiness. And she she loves being
a mother, she loves being the wife, She loves having
(32:55):
her family that defined her that was never me. And
trying to figure out who do I look up to,
who do I talk to, who do I seek? And
again also being a person of color, all different things.
I'm like, I don't want to look up to white women.
I'm sorry white women, y'all are amazing, but you know
what I mean, Like there's this level of like they
don't understand the hardships and I need to know how
(33:17):
to navigate my life. And for the most part, like
my friends, books and people that I have trusted, whether
it's teachers or people that I've read through, they have
been those people. But that was kind of the attraction
of some of these communes slash communities was to have
mentorship level. As in fact, one such place was called
(33:38):
the Huntington Open Women's Land, which is in Vermont, and
as in fact, they were featured in two articles as
they were kind of I don't know, dying out but
had less and less people. I think these both of
these articles came in twenty nineteen. Maybe there was a
plug that happened for them trying to create an open environment.
But their intention was to bring younger women into this
(34:03):
land and to mentor to shape young women, and to
prepare them for the world that is so centered around
misogynistic ideals. I've kind of lost that, and I'm kind
of sad about that. I really wish because I will
say there's something to being able to be with a
group of women and to bond.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Absolutely, there's something kind of oh liberating, especially if it's
a group of women that is in your like same
kind of mindsets and you feel like you don't have
to put up these appearances or performances. And also just
the other day I saw an article, and every now
and then there's something I'm like, we're still talking about this,
(34:45):
but it was about why are we so afraid of
single women? And I think that's another reason why we're
kind of like, or at least mainstream media is like,
why are all these women living and by them so right?
They're living in communities of just women.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
It's wrong.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So there's like that air of you know, like homophobia,
but also just fear around women kind of opting out
of society, which we've talked about a lot. But I
do think, yeah, that is when I think about my
ideal commune, it is like full of my friends and
full of like the support and just sort of being
(35:29):
able to be yourself totally right right and not feel
like you have to act in a certain way that
is not your self right.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
As in fact, part of reading all of these older
generation of women who did these they talked about that
this was about self preservation. The reason the lesbian communes
slash lesbian communities were so big was because they found
a safe space to love who they can love. And
I hate that that's where we're going back to and
we may need them again because we see all these
(36:00):
anti LGBTQ plus policies. Thats going in place and no
one's stopping them. But a part of the reasons that
these communities happens for the safety of those in the
queer community, as well as the safety for those who
have been assaulted and have gone through some things. When
I said previously in a different episode, not all men,
(36:20):
but all men, that's what we're talking about, not necessarily
with the lesbian community, but the whole safety aspect is
we can't be mistaken that you're not going to be
one of those men. And I say you and the
general men in general, that just because you may not
be the one that does something to a woman or
(36:41):
to someone doesn't mean that it's not going to happen
and doesn't mean another man won't do it. So it's
just safer for women to assume all men are going
to do it until you are in our trust, and
even then people break our trust. And that's kind at
that whole level. Now, not that abuse doesn't happen within
(37:03):
the lesbian community, we know it does. We know abuse
happens in the queer community. We know that it's not
talked about enough, and we need to be able to
give safe spaces to that as well. But what we're
looking at is why these female centric communities were so
important and are still kind of important, and why we
need to learn from them, and why we need to
(37:23):
look at them still as a possible option. That's just
my opinion. I know, I know that's my opinion. But
I did want to also give some examples of other communities,
women led communities, so not necessarily like all women we
haven't just been talking about all women only communities, but
that that have been successful and why they exist. So
this actually came from Wonderingourworld dot com. And I really
(37:47):
don't know how old this article is, y'all. I kind
of try to look for it. I think it's fairly newer.
So I'm hoping that they still exist because that would
make me happy. But I want to give some examples
of some women led or all women communities that are
thriving around the world, one of them being Umoja Village,
(38:11):
where not only are the women in charge, but they
are the only inhabitants. Literally, men are forbidden so from
the site it says. Umoja, situated in the grasslands of
northern Kenya, was set up by fifteen women in nineteen
ninety as a refuge after suffering horrendous sexual violence at
the hands of British soldiers. Finding themselves homeless after being
(38:33):
forced out of their homes by husbands who did not
want a wife who had been raped, these brave women
set up their own village where violence and men were banned,
and then later they started taking in children and children
with HIV so abandoned children were allowed in three decades
on and the community members are around two hundred and
fifty women and children. They've continued to take in women
(38:55):
fleeing female genital mutilation as well as those seeking safety
after suffering assault and rape. The women all members of
the Samburu So Sorry people now live in a completely
different life from those who live around them. They make
community decisions together, have jobs and earn income, and live
without fear of male violence or of FGM so love that,
(39:21):
I'm like, I want to go to there. And then
we have Nueva del Cordero and I'm so sorry if
I just butchered all that and almost all female Brazilian
town founded in the eighteen nineties, which continues to grow
from strength to strength and now has a population of
six hundred. So apparently it started off because a Brazilian
(39:41):
woman named Maria Sinorina de Lima set up this town
after she was accused of adultery after leaving a forced
marriage and was excommunicated. She wanted to do all this
in order to create a haven for women where men
could not control them. So the tach That town is
in the southeast of Brazil, which continues to exist today,
(40:05):
populated by hundreds of women who work the land and
work for each other. The community believes their town is
more organized and peaceful than if men were in charge.
I probably agree. Some of the residents are married, but
their husbands almost all work in the large cities far
from the village, so only managed to return on the weekends.
Oh my god, I might have to go to there.
(40:26):
And it is pretty much run by the women only
and men are allowed to live in the town as
long as they abide by the Female Lead World Book.
I'm gonna have to go to theirs. I'm gonna have
to go. And then just one more, because I love
all of these. We wanted to talk about the women
of Jinwar. As it says in the Sight Out of
the Ruins of the Syrian War, a group of women
(40:49):
who suffered at the hands of the ISIS brutality have
created an all female village and refuge calle Jinwar, based
in the north of Kurdish controlled Syria called Rajava. The
village was founded in twenty seventeen and the women saw
it as an opportunity to create their own self sustainable
community living off the land. The women of Jinwar believe
(41:09):
they must separate themselves from the male dominated violence in
the country and equality between men and women in Syria,
and they did this in hopes that they could live
the full to their lives, the potential of their life.
And they've have some few documentaries and seeming lead are
doing well and I love to see it. Of course,
this is obviously a very new five years old at most. Yeah,
(41:30):
I would love to hear more about how they have
been able to sustain and continue in a war ravished area.
I know we've talked about the Syrian refugees before and
I would like to see what is happening, but we're
very limited. But we want to celebrate the fact that
they were able to do so and take in control
(41:50):
of their lives because it's amazing and we need so
many more examples of that.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's definitely been the theme throughout
and I think even when we heard from you listeners,
because I know we mentioned it and I believe our
feminist movie Friday on Film and Luise, yeah, and we
talked about that kind of them living outside of society,
and you know, that's kind of a whole it's different
but related idea of there are these problems, there are
(42:22):
these injustices that are written into our laws and just
society in general, as marginalized people and as women as
we've been talking about in here, and why it appeals
to people to live outside of that. Why this is
an appealing idea for a lot of us, I think
(42:43):
is that and we've seen that kind of thread throughout
in all of these examples, and of course, as you said,
so we've said throughout there are problems too, Like there's
still none of us are completely immune from this, like
the biases we've been raised with.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
But it is.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Very interesting to me to see these examples and to
hear these like commonalities and why they exist, which also
speaks to like a lot of issues we need to
fix in society at large.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
But yeah, that's right, that is interesting.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
And like we said, we don't know exactly what all
is happening in the world today, but it continues. Yeah,
s Minty, I think we need we need to do.
I think we need to create our own community.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yes, Oh my gosh, you know what we need listeners, right?
And what what do we need? What is integral in
this s Minty community? Uh, we need to know what's
your ideal ideal commune slash community and if there's something
we missed that we should talk about, please let us know.
(43:51):
You can email us a steppid mom Stuff at iheartmeia
dot com. You can find us on Instagram at stuff
I've Never Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
You were absolutely a part of this community, so you
need to tell us what you need.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yes, Christina, get back to us on that and thanks
to you for listening stuff I never told the projection
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or regular listen to your favorite shows.
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