January 5, 2022 • 29 mins
Women are getting historically low levels of sleep. Why is that? Anney and Samantha look into why women struggle to catch some zzzs, and share some tips for getting better sleep in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
stuff I never told you production of I Heart Radio.
So it's no surprise that anyone listening. Um that both
Samantha and I we've we've talked about are kind of
(00:25):
very different issues around sleeping. And I find that interesting
because we've also discussed before how you and I deal
with stress and very different ways. And something I've been
thinking about a lot lately as I continue to struggle
with sleep is what an episode I'm planning, we're planning
(00:50):
on to visit in the future, is just the like havoc,
the physical havoc this pandemic is having on is and
and on women. And for me, like I have noticed,
like my heart racist. So even if I try to
to sleep, my heart just races and my mind races,
(01:13):
and I just feel like I can't settle down. But
I'm also so tired. Um. And also I know for you, Samantha,
like you work kind of all these interesting hours. Yeah,
I'm all over the place my sleep schedule. I've just
been constantly tired. I think I've talked about it before,
(01:34):
how I've been googling what's wrong with me? Why am
I always tired and distracted, and essentially it's like, hey, yeah,
it's the pandemic. It's the worst. UM. On top of that,
I've had a lot of hair loss in the last
two years, to the point that I'm very worried and
getting self conscious about it that I'm like, oh my goodness,
the amount of hair that comes out, to the point
at first I'm like, everybody loses hair, and I've had
(01:55):
people done with that, but like I would show him
out how much hair would come out, They're like, oh
my god, that's a lot. And realizing that's a part
of the pandemic as well, and I'm like, Okay, I
feel better that it's not just me, but at the
same time, i just don't want it to happen. Yes, yes,
And I know some of you listeners have written in
about experiencing that as well. And and I've been experiencing
(02:17):
the fear of like breaking my teeth because i just
feel them grinding so hard and I'll hear a sound
like oh no. And that's also part of the pandemic.
So all of these lovely things we're going to visit UM,
but we've also discussed how important sleep is and how
not being able to sleep or get a good night's sleep,
(02:37):
which unfortunately is a privilege in a lot of ways. Also,
Greeks havoc physically on you. So in the spirit of
all that, we wanted to bring back this classic episode.
Please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff.
(02:58):
Mom never told your protection I I her radios how
stuff works. That's what I call it cold open. When
I surprised somebody and just start, just start, and I
started laughing, like what just happened? I give no warning.
I used to do that when I was a producer.
(03:19):
And I get my finger like way up in the
air and go three to one. Then I press the button.
They panic. Get good reactions out of people, you do,
or just a giggle, just a giggle until um. So,
as we record this episode, I as Amantha. Um. We
have just wrapped up Dragon Con, which I call my
(03:40):
biggest party of the year. And it is a five
day marathon legit. I don't know if it's just a marathon.
It sounds like a sprint for five days long because
it was not slow rolling. It's a sprint slat. It's
a sprinting marathon. There's no sleep. I think on average,
this year I got. I got three to four hours
a night, which actually isn't that different from the normal
for me. But it's still like you add in the
(04:00):
walking and the drinking all day, and they costumes and
just the stimulation. Yeah, that was a lot. I had
to have a three day recovery and I actually only
stayed out with you one night out of the three
days that I attended. Like I was there during the day.
Well actually one day I didn't see you at all,
but I got to see a lot about But the
one night I'm like, yeah, I'll stay out with you.
I think I stayed out with you one night till eleven,
(04:21):
and the next time I was like I should still.
The three actually went to waffle house. You know. That's
how we did um And I've discovered after you know,
my life in the department Family and Children's Services, I
can't do that anymore, like I can't do all nighters.
It also got sick and apparently that's the thing that
happens because all the German people that that want to
(04:42):
high five me and stupid people in that one space,
stupid milk. Yeah, let me give you a high five.
I'm cool. I'm not cool, and I'll never do again.
Don't touch me next year. If you've got me, you
should go with the I think I'll just be unhappy,
how about that? No, No, I'm like this year was
my first year and it was overwhelming, and I'm like
I was. I was not prepared, not no matter how
(05:04):
much you told me. I've been to the parade, still
was not prepared. I watched the entire parade with our
boss next to me and didn't realized until the very end,
and I was racking my brain frantically for what was
I saying, well, stuff, Okay, maybe that's a distinct voice,
and we were right next we were actually touching arms.
(05:25):
I'm sure it's like also very loud. He doesn't listen
to this, he definitely doesn't. And then you get an email,
but yeah, that was interesting. Yes, well I hope you
had it some amount of fun. I mean, like I said,
I was very entertained, and we had this whole plan
that I was going to go and and a few people.
(05:45):
I got one interview by the way interview people and
talked to women and he bally that did not happen.
I was trying to figure out how not to be
touched and how to hide away like and don't get
me wrong, when I finally found a spot where I
could just sit and say it, it was wonderful to
watch and and see so many people having so much
fun being creative, but trying to navigate myself out of
(06:08):
that situation. Yeah, I a lot of I had a
really good time this year, and a lot of people
will be like, wow, look at you, You're so drunk,
and I'm like, no, I'm just really happy, Like like
even in the morning before you've been in an alcohol
you were definitely smiley. I was having a great time,
and I did. I only counted, in my personal experience,
two creepers, which is pretty good. I know I heard
(06:30):
from other friends about other creepers, but in my experience,
you actually missed right after you left that night, you
stayed till three am. We went to a different party.
But where did you go to? Oh did you go
to the big one party? I was thinking about it,
but I'm like, I need a food and that that
last party we went to the last party on all round,
it wasn't great. No, they often aren't. No offense to
(06:52):
anyone who organizes them. It's just the nature of having
a bunch of nerds. Yeah, and like I'm not a
big d M fan. Yeah, although my friend Joe took
some really great videos the dance circle. There was one
of is it um Harlequinn comic character. She's dancing and
you see Jesus with his rainbow. It was Jesus, Gay
(07:15):
Jesus when he that one dude fell over and he
got over Gay Jesus got over him, like rose him
from the dead. That was awesome. And that was when
you disappeared. Were like, I don't know where any went.
I was just bopping about. I was still there. You
were dancing terribly, but I was dancing. I was I
was living my best life. But this whole episode isn't
(07:36):
gonna be a recap on Giant Con. It's about sleep
because there was none to be had at Dragon Con,
and I personally have so much trouble sleeping and it
is probably one of the biggest drivers of my life
of like the trouble I get into, the way I behave. Um,
the amount of thought I put into how am I
(07:57):
going to sleep tonight? I don't even want to calculate
how much I dedicate to it actually depresses me. I've
tried all the tricks. I stopped looking at my phone
around nine pm. Not always, but most nights. I do stretches.
I count by odd numbers and I've gotten up to
three thousands something. And before I said, you know, this
isn't working for me. I've tried various medications, no caffeine,
(08:20):
no alcohol, um, and I have the exact opposite schedule
most people expects, and that I usually fall asleep around
eleven PM. But then I'm up by one am, and
I maybe fall back to sleep around five am and
get up at seven am. It's pretty miserable. Yeah, and
you and my friend, uh, my other coworker, she's the
same way because she'll go to bit about nine or ten,
(08:42):
wake up about to stay up, and stay up, and
I'm just going, how do you function like that? I
I almost die if I don't get at least six hours.
And that I'm still struggling. But I do have that
sweet spot. If I get too much sleep, I'm done,
so I have to stop. Yeah, there's so weird window.
So they get too little, I'm a mess. If I
(09:02):
get too much, I'm just so much of a mess.
But yeah, I don't have that struggle that, and I'm like,
and I'm in awe. You guys are standing and as
tipper as you are. It's something I've had to learn
that people need sleep more than I do and people
need food more than I do. And this is just
a stage because I've been the opposite. That was true
(09:23):
because there was in dragon Cons at one point, I
think it was me and your other friend Katie. Both
of those were like, I'm hungry. They don't eat, do they.
We're gonna have to stop them because I need food. Yeah,
that that actually are our last night at dragon Con
that you you were sick by this point, but um,
we had a wonderful time. But um, I wasn't intending
(09:44):
on getting food, and they then didn't and they got
very very drunk, very drunk, and I was like, maybe
we should get some pizza because I was Oh, I'm
old enough to know my limits and I enjoy food
way too much. Oh that's good, and I'm like, Um,
if I don't do this, these are the things I'm
going to regret later. That is what I've had to
(10:07):
I had to grow. Um, But I did have I
used to have the inverse problem with this whole thing,
where I I slept essentially all day when given the option,
and I struggled to get out of bed. There was
even discussion from my doctor that I might have chronic
fatigue syndrome. It was very bad um and we've talked
about before and past episodes about how sleep is a privilege. Unfortunately,
(10:33):
when you have multiple jobs, kids, no cars, for example,
you're not going to be getting much and disclaimur the
science of sleep is very incomplete and very much ongoing,
and as per usual, a lot of studies until recently
only looked at men. In the Food and Drug Administration,
(10:54):
the FDA released the first sex specific guidelines for a
drug ever, and it is for ambient after it was
discovered women metabolized the medication more slowly than men do,
so lots of work to be done, but to start with,
sleep is incredibly important. It impacts physical and mental health
(11:16):
as well as a job performance and social and family life.
Sleep deprivation actually shrinks part of our brains and leads
to poor decision making, difficulty forming new memories and controlling emotions,
and risk evaluation. It takes up more of our time
than any other activity, but only thirty percent of Americans
(11:36):
are getting the recommended amount of sleep and forty million
Americans struggle with sleep disorders and it affects women more
than men. And actually this has affected people in driving. Yeah,
it's been the cause of death for um, that very reason,
lack of sleep and sleep deprivation. I know we talked
about that has been talked about with like truck drivers
(11:56):
and such and how dangerous it is. Remember being without
sleep and flying like I was drunk. Well, yeah, and
the MythBusters have done they remember they did an episode
where they compared drunk driving to write sleep deprivation while driving,
and they found that they were equally bad. Don't do
either or not saying please get an uber yes, um,
(12:18):
and I know like with some train accidents we've had,
this has come up because of the lack of sleeping. Okay,
for some quick comparison between sexes, more than a quarter
of women while men sleep talk. Oh I do that,
Um sixty I used to being Korean too. Yeah, it's
weird people, that's what people say. They're like, I don't
know what language you're speaking. Maybe it's just mumbles out
(12:41):
on't there? Uh? Sixty percent more women six than men,
which is only ten percent have night terrors, and of
course the whole ordeal of keeping up with the current
needs jobs, children, all that that's differentiates between male and
female as well. And these are modern times. Working late
or odd hours is more common than ever, whether it's
(13:02):
the gig economy or people working in international markets. Um,
we're more regularly having irregular sleep and are more likely
to make poorer decisions because of it. According to the
National Sleep Foundation, the average person needs seven to nine
hours of sleep, but the average woman aged thirty to
six he only gets six and a half hours during
the work week. Nearly one and two women wake up
(13:24):
not feeling well rested four times are more a week.
One report found some studies find women's sleep more than men,
but the quality of men's sleep is better. Some male
respondents reported feeling childish for having a quote bedtime, whereas
more women reported being aware of the health benefits of
getting a good night's sleep. Some researchers suspect that a
(13:47):
fear being seen as less masculine leads men to report
artificially lower sleep times. Wow so a month long study
found that women's circadian cycles, the system that naturally governs
sleeping and waking time, are earlier than men's, meaning we
typically fall asleep earlier, but we also wake earlier and
it still takes us longer to fall asleep. Postman aposal,
(14:09):
women reported more difficulties sleeping than pre menopausal women. Amount
of sleep isn't the only thing that matters either. The
quality of sleep, like we mentioned before, is very important
as well, and for women, things like mischell cycle, pregnancy,
and menopause can impact that and some other things that
can impact quality. A two thousand and two pole found
(14:29):
that sixty of women reported experiencing insomnia at least a
couple of times a week, compared to fifty four percent
of men. Now I'm really glad I looked this up
because I thought insomnia probably because of that movie with
Alpacito or whoever was in it, Robbert maybe, but I
thought it meant you never slept, oh never. Now, um,
(14:51):
it just can encompass everything from trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, um,
waking up too early and not being able to go
back to sleep. It's a lot of different things. Apart
from the biological factors we mentioned, there are possible treatable
root causes to this, like anxiety or depression. Chronic sleep
deprivation can also lead to our contribute to depression, especially
(15:13):
for young women. One study found that women are more
likely to suffer from nocturnal sleep related eating disorders, or
in s r e D. This is when you eat
at night when you appear to be asleep. More women
than men report restless leg syndrome, and researchers think sleep
apnea is underdiagnosed in women, which is thought to be
more common in men, although the number of women experiencing
(15:34):
it does go up after menopause, and one reason it
might be underdiagnosed is again, it's never really been studied
in women, and doctors are learning the symptoms present differently.
This is frightening because sleep apnea is more likely to
cause heart failure and death in women. Another study found
that fifty eight percent of women reported experiencing pain during
(15:54):
the night compared to the forty eight percent of men.
Among shift workers, and these are people who work nontraditional hours,
women experience more disrupted sleep compared to men. A study
found that over a three year period, female shift workers
had a sixty higher risk of developing breast cancer. They
also frequently report irregular periods, more difficulty getting pregnant and
(16:16):
more miscarriages. Also, women are more at risk of developing
other health problems from sleep deprivation to like type two diabetes, hypertension,
and heart disease. Artificial white present in the room when
trying to sleep like a television, has been associated with
weight gain in women. Male storing is more likely than
female snoring to lead partners going to go into sleep
(16:37):
in different bedrooms. My grandmother used to snore so loudly
that my grandfather would go to sleep an hour earlier
than her to try to fall asleep before she did.
My mother somehow can sleep with my father, and I
could hear my father in like downstairs to the corner room,
and I'm thinking, how it can be really impressive. It
(16:58):
is really impressive up Aparently it's also a comfort thing
too now for my mom and she doesn't sleep as
well without it. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it's super weird
to me. I'm like, this would drive me crazy and
I'm going to kick someone out of bed. This that
reminds me of the quote from Scrubs. Yeah, yeah, now
I can't. I used to hate it her snoring, and
now I can't sleep without um. Since a lot of
(17:20):
you love dog. Yep, I thought i'd include this. A
recent study found women sleep better next to dogs than
their partners, and something this has to do with the schedule.
Having a dog keeps you on, like getting up to
feed it or walk it. Um my dog busy spelled
with an e y because I was being all all
about myself like it. Um. She slept in my bed
(17:42):
when I was a kid, and it did not help
me sleep. But I had a twin bed and she
was a big dog. Some nights I slept on the
floor and let her wow. But I did love her,
and she was my dogs and my parents were like
she if she usually been in a bed, she usually
in your bed. That's fair, And I actually prefer my
dog peaches to sleep with me as well. I think
(18:04):
it's just that comfort of knowing someone's on that bed.
But she is also the worst when she decides that
she wants to move around the middle of the night,
and I can fill every bounce. Yeah. Um, I try
to cuddle her. She's a hot dog. He doesn't like
me touching on her, but I like it. Speaches You're
just gonna have to deal. I tell her that a lot,
like you're my dog. I feed you, you have to
let me hold you. That's just how it is. Sleep
(18:28):
deprivation causes an increase in risky behavior and men and
a decrease in women, both of which can be bad
actually depending on the situation. So they were looking in
particular at um, like, if you're working like the stock market, maybe, um,
either one could be bad because if you're unwilling to
take the risk that you normally would, you could lose
(18:49):
out on something potentially really good. But then on the
flip side of it, if you're taking more risks than
your normal would, that could also be bad. Um. Also,
after losing sleep, women become more selfish than men. I'm
just wondering if it's being selfish, is just actually caring
for yourself? Yeah, I would, I would be interested to know.
(19:09):
More science is needed, but right now an ad break
is needed. We'll be right back and we're back, thank you.
(19:30):
Sponsored all right, So, on top of all these things
we've been talking about, recent studies, do you suggest that
women need more sleep than men about twenty minutes more
And they think the researchers think that this is because
on average, women use more mental energy multitasking throughout the day,
and on top of that, sleep deprivation hits women harder
(19:51):
than men going back to shift workers. Some scientists speculate
this is why female night shifters are more likely to
get injured on the job and that impacts cognitive ability
of teenage girls more than when compared to teenage boys.
Other studies found mixed results, instead, concluding that women perform
better while dealing with mild keyword mild sleep deprivation. They
(20:14):
also bounced back after restorative sleep to a much higher
degree than men did, but the difference maybe in the
level and frequency of sleep deprivation, and another study found
that all nighters had a more adverse impact on women.
The authors of that one were quick to emphasize that
more research was needed and that their studies tample was
really small. Yeah. Another study we wanted to imagine found
(20:38):
that sleep deprived men were more likely to perceive interest
and sexual interest from women. Scientists think this could lead
to making sexual decisions you may later regret, and outcomes
like sexual harassment, unplanned pregnancies, and st eyes. I feel
like when I'm tired, I think no one is interested
in me. I think when I'm just like, don't touch me.
(21:01):
So therefore, don't like this way, don't interact. I don't
have the energy right, and like, let's not talk, let's
not touch, let's not look at each other. Yeah, I
can't imagine. I don't think I've ever perceived more interest
when I was tired. Ever, almost three out of ten
women report using some sort of sleep aid a couple
(21:22):
of times of week. So why do women struggle more
with getting a good night's rest as compared to men.
Researchers aren't sure, but they suspect it's a combination of
hormones and societal expectations that we place on women, and
women place on themselves, who are more often caregivers both
of children and aging guardians, um doing more housework on
(21:45):
top of having a job, higher overall levels of stress
in general. Some of it goes back to the stuff
we talked about in our Impossible Goals episode. So these, yeah,
these high expectations, were always thinking what else? I gotta
go do this, I gotta go do this, I gotta
do this, and it's really hard sleep. I can speak
from experience. When your brain is thinking of all the
things you could be doing and in your in your
(22:07):
mind should be doing what you're not doing exactly. It
seems like a waste when I have all of this
stuff to do. I really had to try to reframe
how I viewed sleep because I saw it as a waste.
Definitely not a waste. Yeah, I've done that too, but
um so. In two thousand eighteen, the American Time You
Survey found that women are working longer hours at the
expense of their social lives, relaxation time, and sleep, and
(22:31):
on average, men reported having an hour more downtime than women.
Both men and women reported sleeping less than just about
ever since we started keeping track of that sort of thing. Yeah,
pretty much of all historical records, we were at a
historic low when it comes to how much sleep forgetting.
I wonder if part of that is because now we
can actually track it with all of our little fitness
apps and such. Yeah, that's true. I wonder how they
(22:53):
It was probably self reported because they've been keeping this
data for a long time. But I'm sure it was
self reported, and that there's always an issue with reliability
when it comes to that. And then at the same time,
the watches and all of those bit bits and such.
I know they actually try. I don't know how calculate
deep sleep versus you know, all of those types of things,
and I wonder if that causes a different level. I
(23:14):
feel like that would stress me out. I used to
treat sleep is like okay, here we go, or going
to sleep now, and then it wouldn't happen. I'd be
so mad at myself. I feel like if I had
one of those watches, I'd just be stressed about. Right.
I had one for a little while, but I think
it was pretty inaccurate, so I didn't clean to it
too much. But I would wake up and like, yeah,
that makes sense. I don't know about that one. Like
(23:34):
depending on or not rather than gender, work hours both
paid and unpaid, and changes in life stages from childbirds
menopause seemed to have the most impact on men when
it comes to changes in sleep. The consensus as of
now again is men sleep less but better and not
by drastically much less than women, who have a much
(23:58):
bigger gap when it comes to lackaly your time and
interrupted sleep due to some type of caregiving. So I
don't know. I was hoping that I would come out
of this with the answer. Research was research. We do
(24:18):
have some tips, but first we have one more quick
bake for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
Thank you sponsor. Hi, hello, and we're back with tips.
(24:40):
But I would love if listeners could send in their tips.
So the ones I found, the big ones were having
a regular bed and wake time like children. Um, I
feel like, I see, I'm already getting frustrated because I
feel like I do all of this stuff right. But anyway, okay,
doing that not doing anything outside of sleep in your bed.
(25:00):
So this is when I've struggled with because if I
wake up at one am, I have the thought maybe
maybe maybe I'll fall back asleep. But according to most
things I read, I should just get out of bed
and wait until I get tired again and then get
back in bed and track. So those are some exercising
in the morning. Again, I do that. So I found
(25:20):
for me sometimes meditation works. I used to sleep meditation
app Sometimes it does the relaxation of the body type
of thing. Um or if you're like me, I love naps,
but because it does disrupt my actual being able to
fall asleep, I've done less, and actually I've had a
harder time in waking up within like a thirty minute span.
(25:41):
It ends up being like a three hour nap, so
I can't do that anymore. Maybe taking a relaxing bath
before or maybe another warm shower with a little lavender.
You have you seen those um sent things that you
can put in your shower and heats up. Maybe that'll help, um,
if you can afford it. Get the mattress you thing,
and for me, I need a new mattress for sure.
(26:02):
I was really hoping that I would get up for
you one. I'm not gonna lie ship make comes to man.
I'm still waiting such a spoiled thing to say. But yeah,
like that actually does affect you a lot. And I
was thinking about the old school adages that, like you're
talking about counting, you're supposed to count odd numbers because
even numbers is too easy. It needs to be something
slightly so your mind can't wander. I feel like that's
(26:25):
too much, Like I would constraight too hard and get
frustrated if I can messed up. Well, that's you, Okay,
that's fair. Um. And then like the warm milk type
of thing, yeah, Coco, getting in reading, Yeah, I've heard
um reading is a good one. And then the room temperature,
if you can keep it around seventy I think degrees fahrenheit. Um,
(26:47):
it's a rich person number, is it? My My My
place is definitely not that. Maybe that's in the summer.
Sleep is a was a Georgia risk person number. I'm
surprised when I saw it. I was like, really because
I like it cool? But oh yeah, I think that's
the number though. Um, and then less caffeine and or alcohol.
(27:12):
So I stopped drinking caffeine at noon now. I used
to go to two because I've heard it's three pm
they cut off, but I have I stop at noon now.
If you can't afford it, if it is a big
problem in your life, you can go see a professional
who might be able to prescribe medication or cognitive behavioral therapy. Right.
(27:36):
Keeping a sleep diary, um, so if you notice any
patterns this night I slept, well, what did you do
that day? I know people also talk about melotonin. UM.
I say that cautiously because there are a lot of
unknowns to that UM. And then there's different forms and
it helps some people, it doesn't help some Maybe for me,
I actually do like it. I like the little chocolate
(27:57):
one and they're like, I mean, it's really miniscale because
they're one per thing, so you can measure out how
much you want, how little do you want? Um? But
I don't know. I know it has been used for
many of our adolescents instead of trying to prescribe them
some kind of actual medication medication. So yeah, And I
(28:17):
have friends who swear by sleepy time to eat. Yeah,
I used to love that stuff, not because it makes
me sleepy, because I just love the taste of it.
I unfortunately am. I don't think I'm allergic, but I
can't drink tea tea at all. Yeah, I will feel miserable. Interesting, Yeah,
tea and mint me about the mint and all types
(28:39):
of other things. I don't want to reveal all my
other allergies. I don't know why I'm suspicious that someone's
gonna I immediately became very concerned. Well, well, this has
become a very good insight in your life. I feel
like I ever feeled a lot about myself. Maybe I'm
(29:02):
sleep depris more sleep, but in the meantime, yes, please listeners,
if you have any tips or experience in sleeping, or
any any kind of sleep thoughts or dream thoughts, dreams.
We didn't even get to talk about that, um, please
send them our way. You can email us at stuff Media,
mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on
(29:24):
Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always
to our super producer who has disappeared but he'll be back.
He's back, Andrew Howard, Thank you and thanks to you
for listening. Stuff I've Never Told You's a protection of Iheartradias.
How stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, vis the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
stuff I never told you production of I Heart Radio.
So it's no surprise that anyone listening. Um that both
Samantha and I we've we've talked about are kind of
(00:25):
very different issues around sleeping. And I find that interesting
because we've also discussed before how you and I deal
with stress and very different ways. And something I've been
thinking about a lot lately as I continue to struggle
with sleep is what an episode I'm planning, we're planning
(00:50):
on to visit in the future, is just the like havoc,
the physical havoc this pandemic is having on is and
and on women. And for me, like I have noticed,
like my heart racist. So even if I try to
to sleep, my heart just races and my mind races,
(01:13):
and I just feel like I can't settle down. But
I'm also so tired. Um. And also I know for you, Samantha,
like you work kind of all these interesting hours. Yeah,
I'm all over the place my sleep schedule. I've just
been constantly tired. I think I've talked about it before,
(01:34):
how I've been googling what's wrong with me? Why am
I always tired and distracted, and essentially it's like, hey, yeah,
it's the pandemic. It's the worst. UM. On top of that,
I've had a lot of hair loss in the last
two years, to the point that I'm very worried and
getting self conscious about it that I'm like, oh my goodness,
the amount of hair that comes out, to the point
at first I'm like, everybody loses hair, and I've had
(01:55):
people done with that, but like I would show him
out how much hair would come out, They're like, oh
my god, that's a lot. And realizing that's a part
of the pandemic as well, and I'm like, Okay, I
feel better that it's not just me, but at the
same time, i just don't want it to happen. Yes, yes,
And I know some of you listeners have written in
about experiencing that as well. And and I've been experiencing
(02:17):
the fear of like breaking my teeth because i just
feel them grinding so hard and I'll hear a sound
like oh no. And that's also part of the pandemic.
So all of these lovely things we're going to visit UM,
but we've also discussed how important sleep is and how
not being able to sleep or get a good night's sleep,
(02:37):
which unfortunately is a privilege in a lot of ways. Also,
Greeks havoc physically on you. So in the spirit of
all that, we wanted to bring back this classic episode.
Please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff.
(02:58):
Mom never told your protection I I her radios how
stuff works. That's what I call it cold open. When
I surprised somebody and just start, just start, and I
started laughing, like what just happened? I give no warning.
I used to do that when I was a producer.
(03:19):
And I get my finger like way up in the
air and go three to one. Then I press the button.
They panic. Get good reactions out of people, you do,
or just a giggle, just a giggle until um. So,
as we record this episode, I as Amantha. Um. We
have just wrapped up Dragon Con, which I call my
(03:40):
biggest party of the year. And it is a five
day marathon legit. I don't know if it's just a marathon.
It sounds like a sprint for five days long because
it was not slow rolling. It's a sprint slat. It's
a sprinting marathon. There's no sleep. I think on average,
this year I got. I got three to four hours
a night, which actually isn't that different from the normal
for me. But it's still like you add in the
(04:00):
walking and the drinking all day, and they costumes and
just the stimulation. Yeah, that was a lot. I had
to have a three day recovery and I actually only
stayed out with you one night out of the three
days that I attended. Like I was there during the day.
Well actually one day I didn't see you at all,
but I got to see a lot about But the
one night I'm like, yeah, I'll stay out with you.
I think I stayed out with you one night till eleven,
(04:21):
and the next time I was like I should still.
The three actually went to waffle house. You know. That's
how we did um And I've discovered after you know,
my life in the department Family and Children's Services, I
can't do that anymore, like I can't do all nighters.
It also got sick and apparently that's the thing that
happens because all the German people that that want to
(04:42):
high five me and stupid people in that one space,
stupid milk. Yeah, let me give you a high five.
I'm cool. I'm not cool, and I'll never do again.
Don't touch me next year. If you've got me, you
should go with the I think I'll just be unhappy,
how about that? No, No, I'm like this year was
my first year and it was overwhelming, and I'm like
I was. I was not prepared, not no matter how
(05:04):
much you told me. I've been to the parade, still
was not prepared. I watched the entire parade with our
boss next to me and didn't realized until the very end,
and I was racking my brain frantically for what was
I saying, well, stuff, Okay, maybe that's a distinct voice,
and we were right next we were actually touching arms.
(05:25):
I'm sure it's like also very loud. He doesn't listen
to this, he definitely doesn't. And then you get an email,
but yeah, that was interesting. Yes, well I hope you
had it some amount of fun. I mean, like I said,
I was very entertained, and we had this whole plan
that I was going to go and and a few people.
(05:45):
I got one interview by the way interview people and
talked to women and he bally that did not happen.
I was trying to figure out how not to be
touched and how to hide away like and don't get
me wrong, when I finally found a spot where I
could just sit and say it, it was wonderful to
watch and and see so many people having so much
fun being creative, but trying to navigate myself out of
(06:08):
that situation. Yeah, I a lot of I had a
really good time this year, and a lot of people
will be like, wow, look at you, You're so drunk,
and I'm like, no, I'm just really happy, Like like
even in the morning before you've been in an alcohol
you were definitely smiley. I was having a great time,
and I did. I only counted, in my personal experience,
two creepers, which is pretty good. I know I heard
(06:30):
from other friends about other creepers, but in my experience,
you actually missed right after you left that night, you
stayed till three am. We went to a different party.
But where did you go to? Oh did you go
to the big one party? I was thinking about it,
but I'm like, I need a food and that that
last party we went to the last party on all round,
it wasn't great. No, they often aren't. No offense to
(06:52):
anyone who organizes them. It's just the nature of having
a bunch of nerds. Yeah, and like I'm not a
big d M fan. Yeah, although my friend Joe took
some really great videos the dance circle. There was one
of is it um Harlequinn comic character. She's dancing and
you see Jesus with his rainbow. It was Jesus, Gay
(07:15):
Jesus when he that one dude fell over and he
got over Gay Jesus got over him, like rose him
from the dead. That was awesome. And that was when
you disappeared. Were like, I don't know where any went.
I was just bopping about. I was still there. You
were dancing terribly, but I was dancing. I was I
was living my best life. But this whole episode isn't
(07:36):
gonna be a recap on Giant Con. It's about sleep
because there was none to be had at Dragon Con,
and I personally have so much trouble sleeping and it
is probably one of the biggest drivers of my life
of like the trouble I get into, the way I behave. Um,
the amount of thought I put into how am I
(07:57):
going to sleep tonight? I don't even want to calculate
how much I dedicate to it actually depresses me. I've
tried all the tricks. I stopped looking at my phone
around nine pm. Not always, but most nights. I do stretches.
I count by odd numbers and I've gotten up to
three thousands something. And before I said, you know, this
isn't working for me. I've tried various medications, no caffeine,
(08:20):
no alcohol, um, and I have the exact opposite schedule
most people expects, and that I usually fall asleep around
eleven PM. But then I'm up by one am, and
I maybe fall back to sleep around five am and
get up at seven am. It's pretty miserable. Yeah, and
you and my friend, uh, my other coworker, she's the
same way because she'll go to bit about nine or ten,
(08:42):
wake up about to stay up, and stay up, and
I'm just going, how do you function like that? I
I almost die if I don't get at least six hours.
And that I'm still struggling. But I do have that
sweet spot. If I get too much sleep, I'm done,
so I have to stop. Yeah, there's so weird window.
So they get too little, I'm a mess. If I
(09:02):
get too much, I'm just so much of a mess.
But yeah, I don't have that struggle that, and I'm like,
and I'm in awe. You guys are standing and as
tipper as you are. It's something I've had to learn
that people need sleep more than I do and people
need food more than I do. And this is just
a stage because I've been the opposite. That was true
(09:23):
because there was in dragon Cons at one point, I
think it was me and your other friend Katie. Both
of those were like, I'm hungry. They don't eat, do they.
We're gonna have to stop them because I need food. Yeah,
that that actually are our last night at dragon Con
that you you were sick by this point, but um,
we had a wonderful time. But um, I wasn't intending
(09:44):
on getting food, and they then didn't and they got
very very drunk, very drunk, and I was like, maybe
we should get some pizza because I was Oh, I'm
old enough to know my limits and I enjoy food
way too much. Oh that's good, and I'm like, Um,
if I don't do this, these are the things I'm
going to regret later. That is what I've had to
(10:07):
I had to grow. Um, But I did have I
used to have the inverse problem with this whole thing,
where I I slept essentially all day when given the option,
and I struggled to get out of bed. There was
even discussion from my doctor that I might have chronic
fatigue syndrome. It was very bad um and we've talked
about before and past episodes about how sleep is a privilege. Unfortunately,
(10:33):
when you have multiple jobs, kids, no cars, for example,
you're not going to be getting much and disclaimur the
science of sleep is very incomplete and very much ongoing,
and as per usual, a lot of studies until recently
only looked at men. In the Food and Drug Administration,
(10:54):
the FDA released the first sex specific guidelines for a
drug ever, and it is for ambient after it was
discovered women metabolized the medication more slowly than men do,
so lots of work to be done, but to start with,
sleep is incredibly important. It impacts physical and mental health
(11:16):
as well as a job performance and social and family life.
Sleep deprivation actually shrinks part of our brains and leads
to poor decision making, difficulty forming new memories and controlling emotions,
and risk evaluation. It takes up more of our time
than any other activity, but only thirty percent of Americans
(11:36):
are getting the recommended amount of sleep and forty million
Americans struggle with sleep disorders and it affects women more
than men. And actually this has affected people in driving. Yeah,
it's been the cause of death for um, that very reason,
lack of sleep and sleep deprivation. I know we talked
about that has been talked about with like truck drivers
(11:56):
and such and how dangerous it is. Remember being without
sleep and flying like I was drunk. Well, yeah, and
the MythBusters have done they remember they did an episode
where they compared drunk driving to write sleep deprivation while driving,
and they found that they were equally bad. Don't do
either or not saying please get an uber yes, um,
(12:18):
and I know like with some train accidents we've had,
this has come up because of the lack of sleeping. Okay,
for some quick comparison between sexes, more than a quarter
of women while men sleep talk. Oh I do that,
Um sixty I used to being Korean too. Yeah, it's
weird people, that's what people say. They're like, I don't
know what language you're speaking. Maybe it's just mumbles out
(12:41):
on't there? Uh? Sixty percent more women six than men,
which is only ten percent have night terrors, and of
course the whole ordeal of keeping up with the current
needs jobs, children, all that that's differentiates between male and
female as well. And these are modern times. Working late
or odd hours is more common than ever, whether it's
(13:02):
the gig economy or people working in international markets. Um,
we're more regularly having irregular sleep and are more likely
to make poorer decisions because of it. According to the
National Sleep Foundation, the average person needs seven to nine
hours of sleep, but the average woman aged thirty to
six he only gets six and a half hours during
the work week. Nearly one and two women wake up
(13:24):
not feeling well rested four times are more a week.
One report found some studies find women's sleep more than men,
but the quality of men's sleep is better. Some male
respondents reported feeling childish for having a quote bedtime, whereas
more women reported being aware of the health benefits of
getting a good night's sleep. Some researchers suspect that a
(13:47):
fear being seen as less masculine leads men to report
artificially lower sleep times. Wow so a month long study
found that women's circadian cycles, the system that naturally governs
sleeping and waking time, are earlier than men's, meaning we
typically fall asleep earlier, but we also wake earlier and
it still takes us longer to fall asleep. Postman aposal,
(14:09):
women reported more difficulties sleeping than pre menopausal women. Amount
of sleep isn't the only thing that matters either. The
quality of sleep, like we mentioned before, is very important
as well, and for women, things like mischell cycle, pregnancy,
and menopause can impact that and some other things that
can impact quality. A two thousand and two pole found
(14:29):
that sixty of women reported experiencing insomnia at least a
couple of times a week, compared to fifty four percent
of men. Now I'm really glad I looked this up
because I thought insomnia probably because of that movie with
Alpacito or whoever was in it, Robbert maybe, but I
thought it meant you never slept, oh never. Now, um,
(14:51):
it just can encompass everything from trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, um,
waking up too early and not being able to go
back to sleep. It's a lot of different things. Apart
from the biological factors we mentioned, there are possible treatable
root causes to this, like anxiety or depression. Chronic sleep
deprivation can also lead to our contribute to depression, especially
(15:13):
for young women. One study found that women are more
likely to suffer from nocturnal sleep related eating disorders, or
in s r e D. This is when you eat
at night when you appear to be asleep. More women
than men report restless leg syndrome, and researchers think sleep
apnea is underdiagnosed in women, which is thought to be
more common in men, although the number of women experiencing
(15:34):
it does go up after menopause, and one reason it
might be underdiagnosed is again, it's never really been studied
in women, and doctors are learning the symptoms present differently.
This is frightening because sleep apnea is more likely to
cause heart failure and death in women. Another study found
that fifty eight percent of women reported experiencing pain during
(15:54):
the night compared to the forty eight percent of men.
Among shift workers, and these are people who work nontraditional hours,
women experience more disrupted sleep compared to men. A study
found that over a three year period, female shift workers
had a sixty higher risk of developing breast cancer. They
also frequently report irregular periods, more difficulty getting pregnant and
(16:16):
more miscarriages. Also, women are more at risk of developing
other health problems from sleep deprivation to like type two diabetes, hypertension,
and heart disease. Artificial white present in the room when
trying to sleep like a television, has been associated with
weight gain in women. Male storing is more likely than
female snoring to lead partners going to go into sleep
(16:37):
in different bedrooms. My grandmother used to snore so loudly
that my grandfather would go to sleep an hour earlier
than her to try to fall asleep before she did.
My mother somehow can sleep with my father, and I
could hear my father in like downstairs to the corner room,
and I'm thinking, how it can be really impressive. It
(16:58):
is really impressive up Aparently it's also a comfort thing
too now for my mom and she doesn't sleep as
well without it. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it's super weird
to me. I'm like, this would drive me crazy and
I'm going to kick someone out of bed. This that
reminds me of the quote from Scrubs. Yeah, yeah, now
I can't. I used to hate it her snoring, and
now I can't sleep without um. Since a lot of
(17:20):
you love dog. Yep, I thought i'd include this. A
recent study found women sleep better next to dogs than
their partners, and something this has to do with the schedule.
Having a dog keeps you on, like getting up to
feed it or walk it. Um my dog busy spelled
with an e y because I was being all all
about myself like it. Um. She slept in my bed
(17:42):
when I was a kid, and it did not help
me sleep. But I had a twin bed and she
was a big dog. Some nights I slept on the
floor and let her wow. But I did love her,
and she was my dogs and my parents were like
she if she usually been in a bed, she usually
in your bed. That's fair, And I actually prefer my
dog peaches to sleep with me as well. I think
(18:04):
it's just that comfort of knowing someone's on that bed.
But she is also the worst when she decides that
she wants to move around the middle of the night,
and I can fill every bounce. Yeah. Um, I try
to cuddle her. She's a hot dog. He doesn't like
me touching on her, but I like it. Speaches You're
just gonna have to deal. I tell her that a lot,
like you're my dog. I feed you, you have to
let me hold you. That's just how it is. Sleep
(18:28):
deprivation causes an increase in risky behavior and men and
a decrease in women, both of which can be bad
actually depending on the situation. So they were looking in
particular at um, like, if you're working like the stock market, maybe, um,
either one could be bad because if you're unwilling to
take the risk that you normally would, you could lose
(18:49):
out on something potentially really good. But then on the
flip side of it, if you're taking more risks than
your normal would, that could also be bad. Um. Also,
after losing sleep, women become more selfish than men. I'm
just wondering if it's being selfish, is just actually caring
for yourself? Yeah, I would, I would be interested to know.
(19:09):
More science is needed, but right now an ad break
is needed. We'll be right back and we're back, thank you.
(19:30):
Sponsored all right, So, on top of all these things
we've been talking about, recent studies, do you suggest that
women need more sleep than men about twenty minutes more
And they think the researchers think that this is because
on average, women use more mental energy multitasking throughout the day,
and on top of that, sleep deprivation hits women harder
(19:51):
than men going back to shift workers. Some scientists speculate
this is why female night shifters are more likely to
get injured on the job and that impacts cognitive ability
of teenage girls more than when compared to teenage boys.
Other studies found mixed results, instead, concluding that women perform
better while dealing with mild keyword mild sleep deprivation. They
(20:14):
also bounced back after restorative sleep to a much higher
degree than men did, but the difference maybe in the
level and frequency of sleep deprivation, and another study found
that all nighters had a more adverse impact on women.
The authors of that one were quick to emphasize that
more research was needed and that their studies tample was
really small. Yeah. Another study we wanted to imagine found
(20:38):
that sleep deprived men were more likely to perceive interest
and sexual interest from women. Scientists think this could lead
to making sexual decisions you may later regret, and outcomes
like sexual harassment, unplanned pregnancies, and st eyes. I feel
like when I'm tired, I think no one is interested
in me. I think when I'm just like, don't touch me.
(21:01):
So therefore, don't like this way, don't interact. I don't
have the energy right, and like, let's not talk, let's
not touch, let's not look at each other. Yeah, I
can't imagine. I don't think I've ever perceived more interest
when I was tired. Ever, almost three out of ten
women report using some sort of sleep aid a couple
(21:22):
of times of week. So why do women struggle more
with getting a good night's rest as compared to men.
Researchers aren't sure, but they suspect it's a combination of
hormones and societal expectations that we place on women, and
women place on themselves, who are more often caregivers both
of children and aging guardians, um doing more housework on
(21:45):
top of having a job, higher overall levels of stress
in general. Some of it goes back to the stuff
we talked about in our Impossible Goals episode. So these, yeah,
these high expectations, were always thinking what else? I gotta
go do this, I gotta go do this, I gotta
do this, and it's really hard sleep. I can speak
from experience. When your brain is thinking of all the
things you could be doing and in your in your
(22:07):
mind should be doing what you're not doing exactly. It
seems like a waste when I have all of this
stuff to do. I really had to try to reframe
how I viewed sleep because I saw it as a waste.
Definitely not a waste. Yeah, I've done that too, but
um so. In two thousand eighteen, the American Time You
Survey found that women are working longer hours at the
expense of their social lives, relaxation time, and sleep, and
(22:31):
on average, men reported having an hour more downtime than women.
Both men and women reported sleeping less than just about
ever since we started keeping track of that sort of thing. Yeah,
pretty much of all historical records, we were at a
historic low when it comes to how much sleep forgetting.
I wonder if part of that is because now we
can actually track it with all of our little fitness
apps and such. Yeah, that's true. I wonder how they
(22:53):
It was probably self reported because they've been keeping this
data for a long time. But I'm sure it was
self reported, and that there's always an issue with reliability
when it comes to that. And then at the same time,
the watches and all of those bit bits and such.
I know they actually try. I don't know how calculate
deep sleep versus you know, all of those types of things,
and I wonder if that causes a different level. I
(23:14):
feel like that would stress me out. I used to
treat sleep is like okay, here we go, or going
to sleep now, and then it wouldn't happen. I'd be
so mad at myself. I feel like if I had
one of those watches, I'd just be stressed about. Right.
I had one for a little while, but I think
it was pretty inaccurate, so I didn't clean to it
too much. But I would wake up and like, yeah,
that makes sense. I don't know about that one. Like
(23:34):
depending on or not rather than gender, work hours both
paid and unpaid, and changes in life stages from childbirds
menopause seemed to have the most impact on men when
it comes to changes in sleep. The consensus as of
now again is men sleep less but better and not
by drastically much less than women, who have a much
(23:58):
bigger gap when it comes to lackaly your time and
interrupted sleep due to some type of caregiving. So I
don't know. I was hoping that I would come out
of this with the answer. Research was research. We do
(24:18):
have some tips, but first we have one more quick
bake for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
Thank you sponsor. Hi, hello, and we're back with tips.
(24:40):
But I would love if listeners could send in their tips.
So the ones I found, the big ones were having
a regular bed and wake time like children. Um, I
feel like, I see, I'm already getting frustrated because I
feel like I do all of this stuff right. But anyway, okay,
doing that not doing anything outside of sleep in your bed.
(25:00):
So this is when I've struggled with because if I
wake up at one am, I have the thought maybe
maybe maybe I'll fall back asleep. But according to most
things I read, I should just get out of bed
and wait until I get tired again and then get
back in bed and track. So those are some exercising
in the morning. Again, I do that. So I found
(25:20):
for me sometimes meditation works. I used to sleep meditation
app Sometimes it does the relaxation of the body type
of thing. Um or if you're like me, I love naps,
but because it does disrupt my actual being able to
fall asleep, I've done less, and actually I've had a
harder time in waking up within like a thirty minute span.
(25:41):
It ends up being like a three hour nap, so
I can't do that anymore. Maybe taking a relaxing bath
before or maybe another warm shower with a little lavender.
You have you seen those um sent things that you
can put in your shower and heats up. Maybe that'll help, um,
if you can afford it. Get the mattress you thing,
and for me, I need a new mattress for sure.
(26:02):
I was really hoping that I would get up for
you one. I'm not gonna lie ship make comes to man.
I'm still waiting such a spoiled thing to say. But yeah,
like that actually does affect you a lot. And I
was thinking about the old school adages that, like you're
talking about counting, you're supposed to count odd numbers because
even numbers is too easy. It needs to be something
slightly so your mind can't wander. I feel like that's
(26:25):
too much, Like I would constraight too hard and get
frustrated if I can messed up. Well, that's you, Okay,
that's fair. Um. And then like the warm milk type
of thing, yeah, Coco, getting in reading, Yeah, I've heard
um reading is a good one. And then the room temperature,
if you can keep it around seventy I think degrees fahrenheit. Um,
(26:47):
it's a rich person number, is it? My My My
place is definitely not that. Maybe that's in the summer.
Sleep is a was a Georgia risk person number. I'm
surprised when I saw it. I was like, really because
I like it cool? But oh yeah, I think that's
the number though. Um, and then less caffeine and or alcohol.
(27:12):
So I stopped drinking caffeine at noon now. I used
to go to two because I've heard it's three pm
they cut off, but I have I stop at noon now.
If you can't afford it, if it is a big
problem in your life, you can go see a professional
who might be able to prescribe medication or cognitive behavioral therapy. Right.
(27:36):
Keeping a sleep diary, um, so if you notice any
patterns this night I slept, well, what did you do
that day? I know people also talk about melotonin. UM.
I say that cautiously because there are a lot of
unknowns to that UM. And then there's different forms and
it helps some people, it doesn't help some Maybe for me,
I actually do like it. I like the little chocolate
(27:57):
one and they're like, I mean, it's really miniscale because
they're one per thing, so you can measure out how
much you want, how little do you want? Um? But
I don't know. I know it has been used for
many of our adolescents instead of trying to prescribe them
some kind of actual medication medication. So yeah, And I
(28:17):
have friends who swear by sleepy time to eat. Yeah,
I used to love that stuff, not because it makes
me sleepy, because I just love the taste of it.
I unfortunately am. I don't think I'm allergic, but I
can't drink tea tea at all. Yeah, I will feel miserable. Interesting, Yeah,
tea and mint me about the mint and all types
(28:39):
of other things. I don't want to reveal all my
other allergies. I don't know why I'm suspicious that someone's
gonna I immediately became very concerned. Well, well, this has
become a very good insight in your life. I feel
like I ever feeled a lot about myself. Maybe I'm
(29:02):
sleep depris more sleep, but in the meantime, yes, please listeners,
if you have any tips or experience in sleeping, or
any any kind of sleep thoughts or dream thoughts, dreams.
We didn't even get to talk about that, um, please
send them our way. You can email us at stuff Media,
mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on
(29:24):
Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always
to our super producer who has disappeared but he'll be back.
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