SMNTY Classics: The ABCs of being Ace

In this classic episode, Adjoa Danso joins us to discuss asexuality.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I've never told your production. I heart radio. This might
be a difficult question to answer, Samantha, but do you
remember when you learned kind of about the spectrum of

(00:27):
what's sexual identity and gender identity and queerness that it
was more than you know, gay or straight. Right, Oh,
that is a really good question. I think I've known
of it since I've known about sex essentially, but it's
always been a joke. So we see things as jokes,
you know, on movies or like if it's a badly placed, childish,

(00:48):
really offensive type of joke being told in middle school
that type of way. So I remember, like, the first
thing I knew about Mormonism, which is not necessarily true
at all, is polyamorous. They have more than one wife,
which is not the same indications of what we're talking
about when it comes to polyamory. We know that, But

(01:08):
because I was a child growing up in the mountains
and not understanding it, I knew that existed. I knew
transgender existed. What did I think about it? Again? It
became a punch line because it was so inappropriate, and
I grew up in a very homophobic, backwards, backwoods type
of home and town. That that's how I knew of it.

(01:29):
So I say, I knew of what it was felt
and was told that it was either a punchline or sin.
And then I didn't understand the truth of it, honestly
until probably when I say truth of it, the realities
and that that these are people and they have this
whole underlying of what these things are and or how

(01:51):
you may identify and why you might identify, literally until
probably not until high school when I met people from
very young age knowing who they were and they've always
identified this way, that this is how they were born,
and realizing oh, this is part of their like not
just identity, but who they are, just like as I
am identifying as heterosexual, that I've never necessarily found attraction

(02:16):
to any other gender. That has never been a thing
for me until like, Oh, but if you look at
the spectrum of it and the reality of it and
the complications of what love truly means, m h. That
I don't think I really understood it until I started
to kind of grasp in high school and then into
my formative years, even learning the fine details, not even

(02:40):
the details, but the depth of it, even toil our
episode of sexuality and being called out and being like, oh,
you don't understand quite as much as you think you do.
Here we go. So I think it's the very long
winded answer is I'm still learning. That is a good answer.
I think I think a lot of us are, and

(03:01):
I think it's a society we are. I I've told
my story before, Like I remember learning what bisexual was
and I was in middle school. Was X Files based realization,
but beyond that, it was really working on this show
that I learned about other like a sexual or transgender.

(03:22):
And I think there were things that kind of like you,
I knew, but I didn't necessarily know the terminology are
much more about it beyond that, right, And I remember
specifically when I learned a sexual. I was outside of college.
I was working on the show. But somebody, my little
brother said he was dating someone and she said she

(03:43):
was a sexual, and somebody responded jokingly, that means she
just doesn't want to have sex with you, And that
was one of the first like jries I had at
that term of yeah, people being really dismissive of it
and doubting that it was real and I've learned so
much being on this show. Uh, And as you listeners know,

(04:05):
it's kind of been a couple of years from me
where I'm figuring out how I identify and and I
remember with some I love it. Some of your listeners
shrode in it's like it sounds like you're a sexual
but bio romantic, and somebody sent me all these terms,
like seventeen terms like DAVI sexual. I've never heard of
it before, and I was looking at all up like
oh wow, and how validating it felt, and how kind

(04:30):
of a relief. I was like, Oh, yeah, there is
all of this and you can It is a spectrum
and it is fluid, and just feeling so relieved at
that knowledge that I think I had always known. I
just didn't have the terminology or the kind of community
behind it. So thank you listeners were young, supportive. I
love it. Yeah, I've loved it too, and I'm still

(04:53):
working through things. And I agree with the listeners who
have written and said Pandemic has been an interesting time
for having those questions about gender identity and sexual identity,
and also just because I have to I I've learned
a lot through fan fiction. I will say the fan
fiction recently has gotten real open about all these different

(05:13):
like labels or not having labels, and just huge variety
that wasn't there when I was reading fan fiction. So
I'm very happy to see that learning new things through
fan fiction. Yes, sometimes good, sometimes not. But because it
is Pride Butts, we did want to bring back this

(05:34):
episode on the A b C's of being a sexual,
so please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie. Hey, I'm Samantha,
and welcome to Steph. I've never told your protection of
I Hire Radio's house networks. So we're kind of doing

(06:02):
one of our we we love an arc around here,
like a mini series, and we're doing one on sexuality. Yes,
and lately, y'all know that I've been struggling to nail
down my sexuality, which is really fun. As a thirty
year old woman, I gotta say and specifically whether or
not I'm a sexual And it's it's funny because Pete

(06:26):
behind the curtains, we recorded this interview that we're about
to play for you about a sexuality the same day
we did an interview about bondage yea that goes hand
in hand. Yeah, yeah, well it's all part of this art.
It is. To talk about this, we brought in Agua Danzo,

(06:47):
who has written about her experience of being an ace
as it's often shortened to in teen Vogue, and she
also works on a podcast called About South podcast that
you should all totally check out. So let's get right
into it. So I am Adua Dance So also known
as Joe Dance So. Um that's a nickname with the

(07:09):
storied history and Um. I have a background in journalistic writing,
born and raised in Atlanta. Previously worked at Creative Loathing,
and I currently work at ca U s a not
the nanny ng and home care site, but the UH
the inventor of the care package that currently works to
eradicate global poverty by empowering women and girls. Um. I'm

(07:31):
on the social media team there. Yeah. Um. And a
couple of months ago, we had a friend of mine,
Sono Vashi, on to talk about um Asian American identity
and afterwards I picked her brain of like who should
I talk to in Atlanta and she recommended you for

(07:52):
um a couple of things actually, because she said you
have very funny takes on pop culture, which I am intrigued,
which I have a lot of advanture I think you
and I could vant are really well, that could be fun,
but I won't. I won't put that there now, but
I'm just saying that's a future episode. Yes, pop culture
banter always welcome. But also, UM, a sexuality, which is

(08:14):
you you wrote a piece for teen Vogue about your
your experience. Yeah yeah, so, UM, I am a sexual
and that does not mean that I recreate or procreate
with myself. That would be UM. Basically, a sexuals exists

(08:37):
outside the standard spectrum of sexuality and sexual attraction. So
we are all taught that, like, you are sexually attracted
to people, and like that's what you do. UM. And
I basically had a light bulb moment where I was like, wait,
what you guys experienced and what I experienced are not
the same thing at all, And it sent me into

(08:58):
a Google spiral. I think I was like twenty three
when I found out, so I was like, wait, no,
how did I miss this? Um? I actually had a
sexual friend when I was a teenager, and it did
not click at all that UM, she and I had
more in common than other people that I was friends with.
And UM, basically, there are a lot of people in

(09:20):
the world who will just look at another person and
know that they want to have sex with that person.
Maybe after a conversation they know maybe they like see
them at the coffee shop every day and they know
that's not me. I don't feel comfortable saying that I've
ever had sexual attraction toward someone in the way that

(09:42):
the majority of people do. UM. So, like, even when
you like watch TV shows and stuff and you're like, man,
they started having sex like really fast, like Derek and
Meredith on Grey's Anatomy One night Stands, I was like,
I don't understand. How do you just like have sex
with somebody like you don't have like questions about them? First? Um,
I've that is not my experience. And UM, while there

(10:04):
are a sexuals who do have things that line up
with the norm or varied experiences across the spectrum, the
gist is that there are what I call sexual people
and then there are people who don't experience it in
the same way. And I am under that umbrella. Um,
would you mind expounding more on that that lightbulb moment?

(10:31):
Trying to remember exactly what the moment was. Um, it
was kind of a series of conversations, but one in
particular was with one of my old roommates in college
where we would just like be up at night talking
about like relationships and stuff like that. You know, like
when you're like an ambitious young black woman and they're like,

(10:52):
no people who match your vibe. You're just kind of like, oh,
it'll come later, right. And then I graduated and she
still lived in the dorm and she sent me a
photo of the lgbt Q History month board and the
definition of a sexuality on that board and was like,
you might be a sexual l O L. And I
was like, con I know what a sexuality is, Like,

(11:12):
that's not me. And then I read the definitions and
I was like, oh, that is me. Um, And so
I started googling, and like things just started clicking and
making sense. And the best analogy that I have for
like that moment is, uh, the spoiler alert episode of
How I Met Your Mother when Ted dating a woman
who ends up being like a huge talker and at

(11:34):
the end she's dating a deaf guy who doesn't notice
that she talks a whole lot. But throughout the episode,
each person in the group like realizes something about somebody
else in the group, and it's like glass shattering place
above their head. And that's like what it felt like
for me. I was like, no, like the world is crashing,
Like how how did I get this far in my
life and never have this kind of knowledge, especially because

(11:56):
I've my primary identity primary and quotation marks, Um, I'm black.
You can like see it like really clearly. So primary
um is being queer. Like I identified as bisexual for
several years, I still kind of do depending on the day.
And UM, I was just kind of like shocked that
like somebody is like in tune and like knowledgeable and

(12:19):
conscious and like paying attention as I am did not
know this thing. Yeah, and I kind of alluded to
it in our communications, But as I have done this podcast,
I've had a similar realization. It's it's so fun to
be researching something, um, And I say phone not sarcastically,

(12:41):
but also I don't know if that's the best word,
but to be researching something and to be like, huh oh,
maybe that describes me um. And so listeners have had
the fun time of being with me on this journey
of is any sexual I mean, and let's just have

(13:01):
that conversation, is why do you feel like this is
something that or a does it feel like it kind
of was a relief to understand yourself a little more
in that way. Yeah, it definitely flipped my world upside down,
but it was a huge relief. Um. Before I learned
what a sexuality is and that it fit for me,

(13:23):
I was like really concerned. I was like, is there
something wrong with me? And I like represhing some childhood
sexual trauma, like, au, is there like a reason for
why I haven't um been on the same like wavelength
that's my peers in terms of relationships and stuff like that. Um,
And then finding out I was a sexual I was like, oh, cool,
there's my answer. Um. But at the same time, there

(13:46):
is the part that's like still kind of unknown. There
are a lot of people who don't believe in a
sexuality or don't think that they would even be willing
to be in a relationship with an a sexual person.
And uh, those are the kinds of things where like,
don't read the comments is like really real, because you
know what you're gonna get in the comments there, Like

(14:09):
after like three or four different comments sections, you're like, Okay,
there's clearly, uh, like line of thought that's connecting all
of these things and it does not serve me, so
I should probably just not look at it. Um But
I speak in metaphors, so I have a metaphor for this,
of course, and I've thought about it a lot. Like
the metaphor that I'm giving here is not the same
one that's in my Team Vogue piece, and it is

(14:29):
not the same one that was in the first draft.
But just bear with me. So, I'm a huge Top
Chef fan, and Richard Blaze of Top Chef, uh he
opened Flip Burger in Atlanta and had wanted to go
for years and watching the show, everybody always like did
like their tartars, like steak tartar, and he had a
steake tartar burger on the menu, and I'm like, cool,

(14:51):
I'm gonna go for my birthday and I want the
steak tartar burger. And I get there and I take
a bite and it makes me nauseated. Immediately, I was like, no,
I can't enjoy this food that I've always wanted to enjoy.
That is my worst case scenario basically, So it's yet
to be determined, but um, yeah, I can't imagine. Like

(15:13):
I consider myself very like sex positive person. I'm like uh,
pro like female orgasm, pro like sex toys, whatever you need?
Very anti like, uh, what is it? They say? Uh,
parts not hearts. I feel like that's I don't subscribe
to parts over hearts. Um and I feel I need

(15:34):
someone to explain that to me. What is this? I
was trying to pretend like that was going to be like, yeah,
but what parts not hards? I've not heard this, So
it's basically a way of saying, uh, don't be transphobic
in your selection of a partner. Like, just because you
meet a woman who has a penis or a man
who has a vagina does not mean that, like you

(15:55):
guys cannot still find sexual satisfaction enjoy not with one
of Okay, that makes more sense. I'm not gonna have
never heard that impression. Keep going. Um so yeah, I like,
I feel like this very sex positive person I tell
people like, in my mind I could be Samantha from
Sex in the City, but in reality I'm like the opposite.

(16:17):
Um And so I hope that like there will be
a world in which people like understand what a sexuality
is and that like there is uh as much as
no means no, which it does, there is flexibility among
a sexual people. So there are a sexuals who form

(16:38):
a sexual attraction once they've formed a romantic attraction or
once they've formed an emotional attraction. There's some people who
will be like a sexual for years and then um
just aren't. There are a sexual people who are sex
averse and some who are like I don't really get
the deal with sex, but I do it anyway. Um. Actually,

(17:00):
Lane Kim from Gilmore Girls is potentially an ACE icon.
It is not it's not Cannon, I don't think, but um,
she famously like waits to have sex because she's been
like brought up in strong Christian beliefs and it's like
basically terrified of what happened if her mom caught her
having sex. And so she gets married and has sex

(17:21):
on the honeymoon and she comes back and she's like, yeah,
I don't know what you guys were talking about, Like
that was kind of like really awful, Like you guys
were clearly this was all a conspiracy to keep me
from having sex. Everybody like talking about how great it was. Um,
And I don't know that there are many other ACE
icons like that, But the caveat with Lane is that, um,

(17:44):
you're not necessarily sex a verse if you are a
sexual And the other split there that was like mind
blowing for me is that there are people who are
romantically attracted and people who are sexually attracted. And I
was kind of like, oh, we're taught that, like we're
basically socialized that all girls are romantically attracted to every
person they have sex with, and that's why I like,

(18:06):
you shouldn't have sex because he'll break your heart and
leave you. But everyone experiences romantic attraction and sexual attraction
or exists on that spectrum. There are people who don't
experience romantic attraction or sexual attraction. There's some who have
one but not the other. Um. I like to think
of the people who find romantic long term relationships with

(18:29):
the opposite sex even though they are homosexual or well,
I guess that's the only other option really. Um. But
like those old episodes of Oprah where she's like, how
could you be with this woman for forty five years
if you're gay, and it's like, well, maybe he was
romantically attracted to her, or even just platonically attracted to
her and not sexually attracted to her, or vice versa,

(18:55):
or none of the above, Like this is really just
turned everything upside down. Is I'm like everything applies everywhere
and nothing means everything. One thing I loved about your
your piece and teen Vogue is, um, you're talking about
the questions you get and then kind of for yourself

(19:16):
still working through what like someone would ask you something
and then you have to kind of think about it, like, oh, yeah,
what does that mean? Um? Can you talk more about
what your experience has been around that and maybe some
questions you get frequently and misconceptions things like that. Yeah,
the number one misconception I would say is that a

(19:38):
sexuals are sex averse and just like not interested in
sex in any capacity, which like I'm a picture of
like it not being true like worst case scenarios that
like in five years, I'm like, oh no, that a
sexuality thing was totally just like a blip, like it
didn't even happen. Um, But no, I feel very strongly that, um,
what is true today may not be true and ten years,

(20:01):
and that I can still identify as a sexual the
whole time. But um, people do often ask uh, like
just basically like how does that work? Or like why
is it like that? It's almost like I'm a little
bit of a science experiment to other people and to myself.
And I really only learned about myself through talking to

(20:22):
other people because like everything for me is normal until
I say it out loud. Um. One thing that I
didn't mention in the piece was sexual fantasies and how
like like, wait, that's like a thing that everybody does, Yeah,
but um, mine aren't like everybody else's. Like for me,
it's very weird and uncomfortable to fantasize about like a
real person I've met, And no, I'm like, wait, isn't

(20:44):
that like a violation of like their privacy and comfort?
Like I don't know, I feel like I need like
consent to fantasize about you. And then also, um, fantasizing
about somebody and like seeing them and looking at them
in the face the next day, Like isn't that weird?
Like somebody's gonna have to Uh, your listeners should like
let me know and like, yes, please share all of
your sexual fits let the endbox. Um. I think other

(21:10):
people kind of want to know, like how does a
sexuality fit with the rest of like the queer alphabet?
Like can you be a sexual and gay and a
sexual and strain and a sexual and like attracted to
different genders, and the answers yes, Um, they exist in
parallel with each other. So like how somebody you can

(21:32):
be a sexual and trans and homosexual all at the
same time. Um, there's no I mean, I've I really
want to like talk to like a straight a sexual
guy because I have no idea like what that experience
would be like. And I just wonder how like they
are socialized versus me. That would be an interesting because

(21:53):
I know there's many times where I've had conversations with
people about um, heatero sexual then and they're not sexual,
and you start questioning, well, they're just gay, Like the
automatic assumption is they're gay. Um, And there's a couple
of moments I'm like, I think they're actually a sexual.
I think there may be a whole different concept to this. Um,
And you're right. I don't know if I've known many

(22:14):
or been any instances what I've heard hetero sexual man
say I'm a sexual. The only ones that like, the
one that comes to the mind immediately is Jim Parson's
character and big thingg theory. But he's like, oh, he's
a sexual because he's like on the autism spectrum and
like super intelligent, like that's what an a sky looks like.
And it's like, no, uh, I am not particularly like

(22:37):
gifted in the maths and sciences, and I find myself
to be like, uh, I'm better in social situations in
Sheldon is Um, but I like I'm still a sexual.
Like it's not like it's um a symptom of something
or like a sign of like a larger mental issue.

(22:59):
It just kind of is a sexuality has um the
research of it has roots and like female sexual dysfunction. Right. Um,
there's this fantastic and infuriating documentary called orgasm Ink that
I watched not long after I ever lasts a sexual
and I just kept making my froom may posit like wait,
but all these things are wrong, Like don't they know

(23:19):
that there are other ways to answer these questions and
solve these problems? Um. And the doctor I spoke to
for my teen folk piece, Laurie Bratto, like she said
that like that's where it came from, was just like
not knowing how to really place people's different sexual preferences
and non preferences, and so it was like, let's just

(23:40):
study and see if there's something wrong with them, And
basically it was like, maybe these people just aren't experiencing
things the way that we're expecting them to. Yeah, are
you okay? An, So yeah, that's the question. So a
sexuality began was an eye with an idea like, that's
your dysfunctional So thatfore you're a sexual if you can't
have a normal reaction to sex, meaning you're not actually

(24:02):
um pleasured and or uh, where's the word when you're aroused?
You're not actually aroused, So that at my for you're
a sexual, there's for there's something that's like not functional
about you. Is that the context it was originated? Yeah? Yeah, Um,
and I was researching earlier today kind of some common

(24:25):
misconceptions because um, it's estimated that a sexual people or
you know aces as they sometimes call themselves, as one
percent of a population. Um. And it's also sometimes called
the invisible orientation. And um, some of the misconceptions I
found one, Um, it's not like being in a petri

(24:47):
dish or how god Zilla procreates Uh yeah, because Godzilla
procreates a sexually. Another common misconception is it's not an
abstinate spledge um, which I made this mistake in college
because I don't know where I was, but they were

(25:09):
doing this thing like how many people are abstinate? And
I just stood up in a panic. Like me Later,
I was like, oh no, no, not me. This is
my choice. I don't want sex. It was different than
like making an abstinence pledge. I'm sorry, keep going. Uh.

(25:33):
Not a synonym for celibacy, not a disorder, um, not
a fear of sex. Are relationships you can date, fall
in love, get married, have kids, masturbate, fantasize, orgasm, all
those things. It's not caused by a chemical or hormonal imbalance. Um.
It's not a choice, it's an orientation. Um. And then,

(25:54):
as some listeners have written in about this since I
mentioned that I was, you know, wrestling with is me
the whole idea of corrective rape just now it doesn't work.
Correct is bad. Oh, it's like you would like sex
if you had it, even if you don't want to. Oh.
So like when guys are like, I'm going to make
you straight from being a lesbian, You okay, Okay, that's

(26:17):
a born and disgusting in itself. Let's just go ahead
with that out there. And you are the worst you
think that in the statement yes, yes, it's just um,
I mean, are these are these things that you have encountered?
Are um that you had to think about when you
were sort of coming to terms with this? Ah, this

(26:40):
is what I'm a sexual, less in coming to terms
with it and more in talking to other people because
like I was in my mid twenties or in early twenties,
I guess um when I found out. So it was
like I kind of already knew myself in a lot
of ways. I knew that I experienced sexual desire. I
knew that like I wasn't celibate or abstinate, like oh no, sex,

(27:03):
keep that away from me. It was more just like
a thing that hadn't presented itself as an opportunity and um.
But I also knew I wasn't like seeking sex either.
I used to think that it was like one of
those like lightbulb moments that would be like, oh, when
I like hit twenty five, or like when I graduate
and I'm not like bogged down by school and like
college students around me, then maybe the light bulb will

(27:26):
turn on and I'll be ready to go. And then
I found this out, and I was like, Okay, well,
I guess it's just not in me too for that
to happen, although you know, never know, could still happen.
But in like with other people. Yeah, I feel like
I'm educating people every time I bring it up. And
it was kind of funny when uh, you invited me here,

(27:47):
I was like, wait, but I already wrote about it.
Why do people still have questions? And everybody just like
googling and finding my words and then like calling it
a day. Um. But no, people definitely do not know. Uh,
all of these misconceptions are not things that are real
phrase people. Yeah, so have you had any of these
conversations with the head of sexual man Like, has that

(28:08):
ever been a thing where they questioned and then it
becomes a whole conversation. No. Um, but that's mostly because
I don't really like find myself around heterosexual men a
whole lots their um with like friends and stuff. People
will like have their questions and I'm usually it's like
the most open part of me. I'm like, oh my god,

(28:29):
you guys, like I just learned this cool thing. I
need to like ask you about it so that I
can understand it better. And so for probably like a
year and a half there, Like everybody I met, I
was like introducing myself and trying not to be like,
and I'm a sexual and I have questions. Let's talk
about how you feel about sex. But it does influence
the way I like look at the world where I like,
you know, like when there's Derek and Meredith Hungrey is

(28:53):
anatomy having sex again and I'm like you guys, but
like he's married, and like I don't understand, like what
do you see in each other? Or? Uh, this thing
blew my mind. Like people stay in relationships when the
partnership sucks, and when the sex sucks. I'm like, what
are you doing? Leave? Like I cannot imagine, Like you
are a sex having person and you are choosing to

(29:14):
like stay with the bad sex. Like what I want
that term sex having person to be coined for you.
That's a fantastic a little to my sex having. Yeah,
I like it a lot. I like it a lot.
I don't want that to be the statement can put
that in a spectrum. We have some more to discuss
with you listeners, but first we're gonna pause for a

(29:35):
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you. Sponsor. Yeah. I mentioned recently on another podcast

(29:55):
that for me, when I was growing up, all my
friends started be attracted to people and talking about how
much they wanted sex, and I would just be like,
uh huh yeah, and trying to fit in. It just
never happened. It never happened for you. It's been the

(30:15):
last couple of years that you've been able because you've
tried to have relationships. I had how to force that
level of like relationships means intimacy, intimacies me designing you
as a sexual being and I'm like, and you're like,
I don't, I don't. Yeah, that that's been a real
because we never see representation of a sexuality, Like I
just assumed, um, and I've always identified as bisexual as well,

(30:39):
but I just assumed like eventually I would meet the
person and I would want to have sex with that person. Yeah,
And it just never happened. And I thought, well, I've honestly,
I've gone through a lot of guilt because I cared
about these people, and I thought, with enough time, I've

(31:00):
probably will want to have sex with you. And it
just never happened. And in our society, I think because
we don't talk about this because we don't see it. Um,
there is this, especially for women, obligation that you are
going to give give sex like your that's your duty exactly.

(31:20):
And I felt horrible about it because I didn't of
them make you feel bad? No, um, well some people did,
but they I dumped them, but like exactly right. But
I did have, um, a couple of relationships that were
longer term, and they never pressured me, but I still
could sense it, you know what I mean, Like, and

(31:41):
I I felt bad because I knew they wanted it,
and and I didn't know myself little enough to have
been able to communicate that too, you know what I mean, Like,
oh yeah, that is the other question. How do you
communicate that with people today that you meet or maybe
are interested in platonically and or just the emotionally. How
do you communicate, Hey, I'm a sexual, this is who

(32:03):
I am. This is like is it just a normal conversation?
Is the first thing you say? Like what how do
you do this? So? I actually had dinner with a
friend and her friend, uh sis hetero woman and a
SISS hetero man, and we were talking about relationships and stuff,
and I think the guy asked me like if I
had ever dated, or like do I date or something?

(32:25):
And I was like, oh no, I don't do that.
And my friend was like, but you have to give
the backstory, and so I was like, here's the backstory.
I'm a sexual. I'm not interested. Um, usually I just
say it like that. I'm like, usually nobody knows what
it means. So I'm like gearing myself up to have
to explain it. But it's just easier than being like, hey,

(32:47):
so you know, um, as far as relationships go, I've
kind of deliberately stayed away from them because I don't
know how to approach it. I'm like, do I say that?
Like like when I walk in and we've like we're
sitting down together and I'm like, hey, hello, I'm a sexual.
Like like I feel like I need to have like
a name tag on, put it on like my all

(33:09):
my social media profiles, Like just so you guys know, um,
do I assume that like they've googled me beforehand? And
then like saw, I have no idea? Uh that's yeah,
that's to be determined. I'll keep you guys updated or
not again, Like that's not something that you would not
want to do without a relationship we're talking about in general,
just an emotional connection, whether it's to go on dates

(33:32):
or whether it's to have brunch with someone, because sometimes
for me being new in any kind of relationships in general,
just like me and I just want someone to go
with me to brunch and just have a conversation with
and that's the relationship in itself, which would be nice.
So I'm assuming that companionship. So how do you even
approach that? In understanding your all sexuality and being good
with what you are, but now you've got to share

(33:54):
it with someone as well. Yeah, I actually do have.
Um I called them my possibility models because one is
by and Ace but a demisexual, which is the type
of a sexuality where you gain sexual attraction after um
emotional attraction, and she is with a lesbian who she

(34:18):
described as very much not a sexual. And I'm kind
of like, well, you guys are like living the life
you've got, like your house and your four cats, and
I like, I really want to be just like you guys. Um,
so I think it's possible. But at the same time
that that relationship came out of like a long term friendship,
and so I'm kind of like looking more for my

(34:38):
friends to like set me up with people they know,
because like the idea of like swiping and like, oh
it's ugly. It just feels awful, especially when like everybody's like, oh,
get on tender and I'm like, isn't that the one
that people go to explicitly for sex? Like why are
you telling me? It feels like falls adverage arct. Yeah

(35:01):
that reminds me of have you seen bow Jack Horseman?
I haven't, but I heard there's a really great a
sexual character and yeah, a sexual character and uh in
the last season, the most recent season, they like develop
an app for aces to meet other caces. Oh, that
would be really cool. Yeah, product idea, let's do this y'all.

(35:25):
Here we go start a business together. Is that like
aren't the people with that skill set like in this building?
Would the podcast goes silent? App um? So you mentioned
INMI sexual, I wonder if you could um off the
top of your head and if not, that's totally cool.
But the other types of sexual a sexuality, um, so

(35:48):
I believe that great a sexual or I think gray
sexual because words um is when you have sexual attraction sometimes,
So those would be the people who are like I
guess like your model a sexual for everybody who is
not a sexual, be like, oh no, sometimes you are

(36:08):
interesting in sex. It's not quite like the woman who
like has migraines a lot, or maybe she does have
migraines a lot because she doesn't know how to disappoint
you by telling that she does not want to have
sex with it, but the sex with bad, where the
sex with you is bad, Stop having bad sex you guys, Like,
why why are people who's not doing it sex? If

(36:33):
you're bad at it, get better the next episode. Um.
And then there is auto chorus sexual or ed geo
sexual a e g o sexual um, which is sexual
attraction that's kind of like detached. And that's kind of

(36:54):
what I experienced. So like when I say, don't fantasize
about people I actually know, it's also like not me
in the phantom see either, I don't know something about
it just feels like really weird and gross and personal. Um.
So I guess it would be like when people read
erotic fiction and they're like identifying with the characters, but
they're not like the character themselves. It's kind of like that.

(37:16):
It's really weird when you have one of those moments
and then you see them in real life you're like, oh,
that is not how I picked her. Due now it
just killed everything. No, I don't totally. I'm totally I'm
following you. Another another pop culture reference. I don't know
how many I have left before my card is full.
But Angela Chase on My Soul called Life, she I

(37:40):
need to go back and rewatch the series to determine
for sure whether or not she counts as an a sicon,
But she has a lot of thoughts about like making out.
When she starts making out with Jordan Catalano, she's like amaze.
She's like I can't believe that this is like a
thing that we're doing, and like she's very focused on
like it as part of her life versus everything else

(38:01):
that's going on. And then there's this like great scene
where she's talking about like I can't believe people just
like have sex, Like they just like do it with
each other, Like my teacher like he probably had sex yesterday,
and like this other teacher also probably did and like
isn't that weird that we all just kind of like
do it and like that's just it? And I was like, yes,

(38:22):
Angela and you. That's so weird. I connect. I connect
with this um there there was When I was looking
into some research, I found the term queer platonic, which
is people who experience a type of non romantic relationship
where there is an intense emotional connection that goes beyond

(38:43):
a traditional friendship. And when I read that, I was like,
I have experienced that before. What's the what's the past
a traditional friendship? Is that? Like? I think it's for
me the way I interpreted it, in the way that
the relationship I'm connecting it to. People look at us
and said you are in love of I was like,
we are not, um, but it was more than a friendship.

(39:05):
Like we just experienced such an intense connection and there
was never any possibility of sex, neither of us and
I am very I have a very bad track record
with this, but I know this for sure in this
relationship because we discussed it. Also, he was gay. That
makes that that's the same question for me, Like what
goes from beyond Oh, we're best friends too? Queer platonic,

(39:29):
I think because for me, um, most of the time
I'm with a best friend me. Yes, it doesn't have
the same level of like emotional intensity it has. It
does have an emotional intensity, but it's not like the
same thing where people look at you and there like
I mean, people would tell me you were the same

(39:52):
side of the coin, like you you two are meant
to be together, like no, we're not UM. But I
did experience it, like I felt, I imagine that's the
closest I'm ever going to feel to what traditional love
is UM in my lifetime. But I could be wrong.
I think in this in my example in particular, and
this is obviously very personal to me, but it was

(40:14):
something where I could recognize, like this is perhaps the
clinical thing that people feel. There's no I never wanted
to date, like I didn't want sex, but I did
feel that like I need to be with this person,
I need to talk to this person like all the time,
just all the time. And he felt it too, and

(40:34):
it was a very strong UM connection that we made.
And actually UM the story behind my tattoo, which I
won't get into now, but it is quite the story. UM.
So just when I read that, I felt, I've had
so many people from the outside look at that relationship
and tell me you were in love, And I kept

(40:55):
trying to express I wasn't, or at least not in
the way that you mean it. Um, but I can
I can understand looking from that side. I just I
knew the feeling myself, and I was very confident in
like we might have loved each other, but we weren't
and wild right, that makes sense to be a research
queer platonic a little more. Should just like a like

(41:17):
a Will in Greece. Hyll with you on that one? Yeah,
the will you have a baby with me, but we're
not together together. Yeah. I haven't seen All Grace a
long time, but I'll have to. I don't think I've
ever watched more than two episodes. Mm hmm. That's because
growing up I just never watched TV as much m hm.

(41:41):
And that that was the era I didn't watch a
lot of TV. Because I'm trying to relate, I can't
now I know more. I will say that. But Will
and Grace was not in my forte I'm trying to
think of when what years were those, like early two
thousand's to late two thousands. That was being religious, Yes,
that was me being religious, and I'm like, I'm not
watching TV. I watched religion. Princess Bride was my go

(42:06):
to what princess Bride? Yeah, that's I almost got really
disheartened with you when you just say about princess bride. Okay,
now I got you. Okay, all right, we're okay. Now, okay, good,
We're okay. We have a little bit more for you listeners,
but first we have one more quick break for words
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Um. So,

(42:43):
I was looking at this website where it was like
how to tell if you're a sexual and essentially if
you don't experience sexual attraction. That's pretty good. First question
to ask, um, would you have any advice for people
who are maybe newly discovering that they're a sexual or

(43:05):
maybe questions they can ask themselves to find out if
they are if they think they might be. Now I
want to do like are you a spango or something?
That'd be awesome. I want to encourage that. Yeah, I'm
just gonna say that, please play games. I love games.
Keep going. Um, I would say, definitely talk to the

(43:28):
people around you, like your friends, about like when they're
in relationships with people and how they feel about the
person there with versus how you feel. Because, like I said,
everything was normal until I found out it wasn't. And
I guess pay attention to like TV shows and how
relationships are presented there, and like thee that feeling of
like the natural progression of our relationship leading to sex,

(43:50):
And are you kind of like, yeah, I buy this,
Like I totally like that's how I feel about the
person I'm with, or you kind of like I don't
get why every relationship is like ending its sex. Can
we just like watch people like hang out, we watch
people to be queerly platonic together? Yes, Um, that's the
brand new sitcom queerly platonic that's gonna beyond the channel.

(44:11):
The ideas in this episode CINGO clearly botonic. I mean
that is amazing. I I have to say, like, I
grew up in a very small town and it was
very conservative, and so I just wasn't exposed to a
lot of different and a lot of us aren't through
media anyway, but I wasn't exposed to a lot of

(44:33):
different relationships. And every time I see one like odd
on bow Jack Horsemen, it's just the most amazing thing.
So I can't believe it took this long to see
something like this. Um, do you have since you are
so into pop culture, have you given several examples already,
But do you have any other ace icons as you've

(44:56):
been calling them? Not really I look for them every
and then they have sex and it's like and it's
like their whole life changes. Like on Riverdale, Jugead um
was I still can't figure out at what point he
was declared a sexual and if it was supposed to
be like Jugead in the comics or Junkhead in the show.
But if he's supposed to be a sexual in the show,

(45:18):
they completely botched it because they have not addressed anything
around sex. And then his relationship with Betty. Sorry spoilers.
I guess um they are just like any other team
couple and have sex and like for like an episode
before and a few episodes after. I was just kind
of like waiting for them to like address it, and
nobody ever did. Um. Yeah, most of actually like googled

(45:41):
to see like um to like jog my memory and
see if there was somebody I was missing. And Todd
from BoJack Horseman was the only one who anybody could
agree was like actually a sexual and not like on
the spectrum or otherwise like had other reasons for not
being interested in sex or uh sex averse or just
like somebody who never had sex. Like somebody put out
there that Dumbledore is a sexual and I was like,

(46:03):
come on, you guys, like that's not just not seeing
somebody have sex. It's not a sexual. And if somebody
were to be a sexual and then Icon it would
be McGonagall, like, let's be real. Then you would say
her in Dumbledoors relationship could be clearly platonic. It's all
coming together. We just did it, and we have brought
another Harry Potter reference. You're welcome Annie once per episode. Yeah,

(46:32):
so right now, I would say YouTube are ace Icon
very like, I am so new to this, but I
think because you're asking the right questions and you're having
this conversation and you're making it a very clear as
well as the fact that there's a spectrum. You too,
in my humble opinion, are a psychon. Well, thank you.

(46:58):
If I had an award for you, I'll give you one,
so pretend like I did. Thank you, so beautiful, shiny,
it's so big. Sorry, Um, yeah, I feel I mean
there's a lot to unpack in our media. Always we

(47:20):
come back to that but just I do think that, um,
every time man and women are on screen together, they
have to have sex eventually, and it's very right. Well,
that's also like the sad part of any kind of
friends shows the fact that opposite sex when they're together,
I'm not going to have sex to lesbians can't be
just friends. They're going to have sex as well. Or

(47:42):
two homosexual men they're going to have sex as well,
even though they may just be flipping friends. Yeah. Um,
everything has to do with sex apparently in our media. Yes,
But the fact is that having conversations like this to
be able to um go beyond generalizations as well as

(48:02):
understanding that there are people that are seen like that's
the biggest part is can I be seen and you
two are those sort of like I see you because
I am you, And that is a bigger part of
the conversation that needs to happen. Whether it's you writing
an article in teen Boat, which is fantastic because that's
such a big medium in itself, as well as doing
podcasts specifically specifically two girls about Hey, it's okay, you're

(48:25):
not just here for sex and if you don't feel
sex with attraction, that's okay. Too. Yeah, because that is
another common misconception, um that people report feeling broken because
they don't because it is. Um. Like I said, when
my friends all were experiencing it and I wasn't, I

(48:46):
thought something must be wrong. Um, And yeah, it's just
it's on the spectrum. It's something and you can experience
it in many different ways. You can never romantic attraction.
You could sometimes be attracted. UM. So I'm very glad
that you you came on, you agreed to come on
and talk to us. Yeah. Yeah, I'm open for all

(49:09):
any and all a sexuality questions because apparently there's nobody
else out here taking them, so I might as well
put myself out. I mean, I've already put myself out there,
but I'm still here. And any other conversation is for
people of color, myself included. We are so so overly
sexualized to be that person be like nope, no, I'm

(49:30):
good without it. I'm sure that's a whole different like
shock factor for many of people in itself, because I
think as an Asian woman who there's a damn fetish
for which is creep by the way, Um, it is,
it's hard to recognize separation of female specific race and sexuality,
and to separate that would be like cataclysmic from many men.

(49:54):
And they're weird fantasy worlds. They're weird fantasy world that's
fantasy is are not bad. But I'm just saying, like
I've definitely had the weird people approached me, I would
apologize for them. They should apologize themselves. True story, true story,
And again having that conversation again, women are not just

(50:17):
for sex, which is the opposite of what we're seeing
and the conversations in the world and around the world
and the value of women in general. Are people who
identify as women or identify as female and given non
binary and being seen as female, we are able to
make our own decisions of who we are and what

(50:37):
we prefer, what we don't prefer. Yeah, or just be
treated like humans who are for a certain way what ridiculous. Um, Yeah,
we really appreciate you coming on. Is there anything else
that you want to touch on before we close out?

(50:58):
I don't think so, but I'm really good for remembering
stuff later, Like as I drive away, I'll probably think, God,
that's what I said. Well, you're welcome back. Anything outside
of now you have that's his friends, But outside of us.
So your bagels and your coffee anytime come home Tuesdays.

(51:20):
This is how I do things. I only come to
eat food. I mean that's that was until I am UM.
But yeah, yeah, anytime you want to come back, whether
it's to talk about this our pop culture or whatever.
And also I would love to keep talking about CARE
because I think they do some really good things and
really necessary things, especially right now and the fight for
UM against poverty and then just equal representation. Yea. If

(51:45):
anybody wants to shoot a message to CARE on Twitter
or Facebook, that'll be me replying back to you. So
ask me how to donate or how to get donate.
And speaking of um, where can people find you? And
are there any projects you're working on that you're excited
about on the horizon. Not currently working on anything because

(52:08):
I left media and then just kind of like stayed
gone with like a toe in the door. So I'm
working on getting the rest of my foot and body
through back through the door. Um. But people can find
me on Twitter and Instagram at Joe a Dance so
j o A d A n s oh my last name. Um,

(52:29):
people say I'm funny. So I got an iPhone tent.
I keep taking pictures of my cats, so if you
want to see those, yeah, you know, a cat person, absolutely,
I'm a dog person. Sorry, here we go. I'm a neither.
She doesn't like animals, fish, I don't mind. How about this.
I'm just generally neutral, animal neutral, animal neutral. Um. But yes,

(52:55):
pictures of cats on the iPhone. Tain can't do better
than that. Everybody right, right, And that brings us to
the end of our interview. I have to tell you
all the time, I am so amazed, and I feel
so fortunate for the people who are willing to come
in and doctors, they're so awesome. Un yes, and hopefully

(53:17):
she will be back. I'm pretty sure we'll bring her back.
He's too smart. We gotta put her on everything. Let's
go ahead through all the things. Let's do that. If
you want to hear more of Agile's work, don't forget
to check out her podcast about South podcast. Um. But
in the meantime, this brings us to the end of
this episode. But we would love to hear from you

(53:38):
listeners if you would like to email, as you can
at our new emails It is Tough media Mom stuff
at I heart radio dot com and all anything you
said to the old email address. We have had so
many email addresses, and if I had the time and
my boss wouldn't yell at me, I would talk about
the history of the email address. But I'm sure no

(54:00):
one is interested in it but me. Um. But any
of the old email addresses you email it will eventually
arrive at It's that one. Sorry, Oh it is a
long and long it is it is. You can also
find us on social media. You can find us on
Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You and on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our super

(54:24):
producer Andrew Howard Andrew Haward, and thanks to you for listening.
Steph I've Never Told You. It's a production of I
Heart Radios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.