May 7, 2025 • 27 mins
In part one of this classic deep dive on female revenge, Anney and Samantha dig into the science behind revenge and discuss famous historical examples of women getting their revenge.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Addy and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Stuff one never told you objection by Heart Radio, And
today we are bringing back part one of our two
parter on Female Revenge. I'm gonna tell you this one
(00:29):
put me in a place. These two put me in
a place, so be prepared. They're a little intense. They're
a little intense, but because of some last of us
related reasons, I thought it.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Would be good to bring it back.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You know, yes, so please enjoy part of our episode
on Female Revenge.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff Mom. Never
told your production of iHeartRadio's House Stuff works. You know
what one of my resolutions is, what is your resolution
to stop saying the intro so quickly?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Oh well, it's better than what I do, since I've
never done it, and I'm just grateful that you do.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
One day, I'm all good.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I am a little fearful of the day that you're
gone with safer and I have to do something because
we're behind or something, and I had to do an
introduction like this, and I'm gonna be like, oh, I
miss Annie so much right now.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
But you can learn from my mistakes. That is one
of my many resolutions. That's not my only resolution.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, I will say one of the problems is because.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You do it.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I don't even pay attention. But it sounds like I
think I tried. We tried this one time with an outro.
I try to do an outro and it was such
a cluster and I was like, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You do it.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I still have to write it down, even though I've
said it so many times. But we're anyway not talking
about resolutions today. We're talking about female Revenge, love It, history,
science examples, and it ballooned into such a big episode.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's now a two parter.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Well, and I think part of that was you and
I kept going on and on and on adding to
the movie list or just a genre of it because
I'm like, I like this one, and like this one
and this one and this one, and this could be considered,
and this is considered because we actually went beyond. We
could talk about TV shows, and we do couple, but
not all of them obviously.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, but then even trips.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
With like books as well as comics or graphic novels,
we don't exactly get into all of that level, right,
So it could be like a five.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Day series, it could be an entire podcast just revenge,
because you're right, I didn't even think about comic books.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
What is it? Yeah with me, I can't believe you
didn't go there. Maybe will come to me as we
do it, So that's your lane.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, Well, we are planning some specific episodes on Birds
of Prey Black Widow, so well we'll come back to
that before we get into all of the stuff we
have to talk about. We did want to put a
trigger warning hair because there's gonna be discussion around sexual
assought violence, brief mentions of mental health, and suicide where
these revenge things get pretty dark. Yes, yeah, and it's
(03:22):
actually something I didn't have too much knowledge around when
it comes to entertainment, this idea of women in revenge.
As I've said before, most revenge media makes me uncomfortable
and nervous, which is funny because I've actually written a
lot of things about revenge in my own life.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So I think I think there's something.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
About the fantastical element of superhero type revenge that I
can click out and it seems like fantasy and watching
like revenge, even though it's heightened usually there's something about it.
It just puts me on edge, which I think is
the point.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, exactly, that is the point. It makes you uncomfortable, right,
It kind of makes you look your shoulders at all times.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Right, And I a good revenge movie makes you question
the main character and whether or not they're justified in
what they're doing.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I think this is definitely one of those anti hero
right ideas.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Right, And I didn't want to say in here.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I have a friend who is excellent at revenge. She
I hope I never end up on her bad side.
The anchovies in the car, the ants in the car. Basically,
your car is not a safe place if you made
her mad.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You know, that's kind of a trope as well, that
the girlfriend, the mean quote unquote crazy girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
They always go after the car, right.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
It does seem to be that type of feel I've
definitely met women that I'm like, Yeah, you scare me
because you have not only do you think of it,
and I think a lot of people think bad thoughts,
but you actually start planning it. And when you start
planning it, you know you better watch out right.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
And so this isn't something I'm very familiar with, but
you are a right.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Yes, I do really really love female revenge movies. Unfortunately,
with some of the me too stuff is it's kind
of taken out of my rotation a lot of the
ones that I really do love, and I'm very sad
about that. I also find it really interesting because one
of the things, and I don't think we mentioned it
in here when we talk about mad Max, one of
the big problems people had was Cherli Stirn playing of
(05:25):
such a pivol character, which in my mind, I'm like,
she still need a saving in the end. So I
don't understand why people are upset people being men and
men's activists, let's put it that way. But it is
a kind of a revenge justice type of mentality as well.
So it's kind of like, Okay, who are we looking at,
who are we rooting for? How are we rooting for it?
(05:45):
And how do we come to like the just desserts?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know? I want to see all that I do.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I love that because I don't always like really dark,
dark things, but when it has a satisfying ending or
a satisfying moment, it makes every.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Thing okay to me. Yeah, it's carthartic.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yes, yes, I made a very foolish mistake in preparation
for this, and I've watched probably fifteen of these in
like four days in an interesting place.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I did not recommend that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
No nobody in there thinking about themselves and their health
wouldn't have done that. I kept telling myself, why no
one's making you do this?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I was, Yeah, I was surprised, And I will say
one of the reasons, and you'll hear in the later episode.
We picked Farst Wives Club because I wanted we were
talking about doing a revenge type of themed movie, but
I wanted to make sure it wasn't over the top
gory and over the top dark. And this is kind
(06:47):
of one of the beginnings of the revenge justice type
of thought process in movies, and not beginning, that's not true,
but you know it was one of the iconic ones. Yeah,
but yeah, and then finding out you watch all these
oh why oh?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But the reason I wanted to say that is because
what you said earlier, the me too thing watching them,
you're gonna recognize when we get to our part two episodes,
several names like the wine scenes come up a lot, right,
fascinating because it makes you wonder the people working on it.
And I know I've read some some reviewsers all this
female revenge maybe makes you wonder.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Makes you And it seems like a female revenge and
anger is something that are on a lot of people's mind.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
He'll have no fury like a woman scorned.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
That is a great great line in anything, A quote
derived from William Congree's sixteenth century English play The Morning Bride,
m You are Ning? And these episodes were in part
inspired by the upcoming Carry mulligan revenge flick Promising Young Woman,
directed by Emerald Fennel. And I was really really like.
I started watching it and I was like, oh, damn, okay, okay, that's.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Taking out the nice guy trope real hard.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, And I really enjoy It's gonna be an intense,
intense scene because within the previews you can already see
the nice guy bits. You have very unassuming, good looking
guys you would never expect. Ab you have the friend
who didn't support her, didn't believe her, and then you
have the teacher figures, yeah, that also don't believe her
(08:21):
and just kind of tell her it's gonna make it
worse for you.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And then she just left and everybody's like, why did
you leave?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yeah, And it definitely had a hard candy vibe to it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Too, which I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, and we're gonna be talking about that film and
another movie that kind of reminds me of that that
I just watched in the Faith. But okay, let's do
our definition bit. The Dictionary definition of revenge is quote
the action of inflicting hurt or harm on someone for
an injury or wrong suffered at their hands. It is
defined as both an act and a desire. Some psychologists
(08:53):
refer to it as narcissistic acts of self repair. The
definition of justice, which is a term that gets thrown
around a lot in conversations around revenge, is just behavior
or treatment, and the line between the two of them
can be murky. Punishment pops up a bit too, which
is a penalty inflicted for wrongdoing. But when I was
(09:16):
trying to think of the differences between these things, and
I do think there can be overlapped. I think the
main thing with revenge is there's a personal emotional aspect
and that it's not so much about justice necessarily. It
might be, but it's more like, I want to hurt
this person who directly hurt me.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Right, it might You might take actions that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Don't worry a lot of the movies are going to
talk about. They kind of go a bit further than
request ally, yes, and yeah, we are as a society
pretty torn on ideas of revenge. There's an eye for
an eye versus the other cheek, which are both from
the Bible. A paper digging into revenge and all of
(09:58):
this found that when part dissipants believed a revenge action
was sanctioned by God, they were more likely to support
revenge and seek it themselves. Revenge is a basic human drive.
The same part of your brain that lights up when
you're in love that sends reward signals lights up when
you think about revenge. The prefrontal cortex shows activity too,
(10:19):
which this is the same area associated with planning how.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
To achieve a goal. That's really intriguing.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Evolutionarily, it may have been a way to keep burgeoning
societies functioning. Those that do wrong that threaten stability get punished,
a tool to prevent future wrongs. And we did touch
on some of the science behind revenge in our Forgiveness episode,
but there's some more we want to touch on because
it is really fascinating. At twenty seventeen, study out of
(10:47):
the University of Kentucky looked into revenge, tasking participants with
writing an essay and then swapping essays for feedback with
other participants, and one of the participants was an undercover
researcher who epically critical feedback. Then the participants were allowed
to express how angry the feedback they had gotten made
(11:08):
them with a voodoo doll and needles. The participants who
had received the negative feedback reported feeling better after engaging
in some revenge basically sticking the doll with needles. A
follow up study looked into whether people would go out
of their way for revenge and they found that to
not be true. People sought it out if they believed
(11:29):
it would make them feel better, but participants led to
believe it wouldn't, and they did this through a placebo
that they called a mood stabilizing pill. Basically, no matter
what you do, your mood's going to stay the same.
Did not pursue revenge against teammates that had let them down.
This corroborates the popular psychological understanding of revenge that its
primary goal is catharsis, followed closely by deterrence and restoration
(11:54):
of self esteem.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
So a similar study found that when given the opportunity
to get revenge against the player who wronged them. Participants
universally took it, but also universally reported feeling worse after
that case compared to those who weren't wrong and therefore
did not seek revenge. Those who had been wronged and
were not given the opportunity to get revenge reported they
believed they would feel better if they had pursued revenge,
(12:15):
even though they were in the happier group. Well, again
the grass is greener idea. Yet another study found that
acts of revenge are only better than not getting revenge
in cases where the revenge is acknowledged and the balance
is restored.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Right So if it goes unacknowledged, then you don't get
the same.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right like benefit from it.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And as we talked about in our forgiveness episode, most
science indicates that revenge is satisfying in the short term,
but associated with more negative outcomes in the long term.
Instead of providing closure, it keeps a wound fresh. Yet
another study found that when asked about a time they
got revenge in a time when they were the target
of revenge.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Almost everyone.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I love this, Almost everyone deemed their act of revenge
as just and appropriate. And the act of revenge against
them as excessive.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Of course, of course, how dare you exactly?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Oh, humanity.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
We actually have a lot more science and history about
revenge to get into, but first we have a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
(13:33):
Thank you sponsor. So one thing I was curious about
is the question of why do we like revenge stories.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Well, obviously, revenge stories are satisfying.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like I just said, they're cathartic.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
In a world where bad things happen to a good
people without rhyme or reason, a reality beset with senseless smiles,
it's comforting to think that those who have wronged us
will face the consequence and then so huh hope. Most
of our revenge media functions like a fantasy where everything
is exaggerated.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It reminds me of what we talked about in Whitey
People victim blame, where we're always trying to find a
reason for or to find balance, right, to make things just.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
For there's sense. Yeah, I think that's the true libra
in me. I needed to be Oh that's out, y'all?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Oh okay, all falling into place from doctor Edward Halliwell,
psychiatrist and author, quote, the pursuit of revenge is a
turn on.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's an adrenaline rush. You can really get into.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It, and once you have experienced it, you want to
do it again and again, and it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Becomes a way of life.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
He argues that if you wanted, you could frame our
entire history in terms of revenge.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I think that's what wars are essentially, when you look
at the bottom line and money.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Oh yeah, and of course money.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
In the two thousand and eight study out of Australia
conducted by doctor Ian McKee, you found a link that
suggested that those most interested in revenge were people more
motivated by power, specifically right wing authoritarians and some sort
of social dominance and all the attributes that go with it.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Other studies have shown that events that inspire revenge differ
by culture and others that revenge is viewed differently among
communities without access to legal means of justice. There are
entire websites dedicated to helping you get revenge. Think the
Exploding Glitterboxes or get your Revenge on your x dot
com run by a man whose wife cheated on him.
(15:30):
According to him, most of his clients are female.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I don't want to look it up. No.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
A recent study found that men enjoy revenge more than women.
When shown instances of wrongdoers getting punished, male participants were
more likely to feel pleasure, while female participants were more
likely to feel empathy. Another study looking into gender differences
found that men were far likelier than women to engage
in revenge of fantasies, and that even children fantasize about
(15:59):
getting I've seen this as a nanny and as a
person who was in the field.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I've seen this. Okay, you sometimes are really crafty too.
Just wants to know that I believe it.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
The women reported that they believed revenge was ultimately pointless,
and a lot of the women who did express revenge
fantasies were more likely to turn the revenge inwards, imagining
about harming themselves to punish those that harmed them.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There is a certain level of breaking gender norms in
female revenge entertainment. Traditionally, aggression and violence are associated with men. Anger,
the emotion most closely associated with revenge, is traditionally viewed
as a more masculine, sanctioned emotion. Historically, women have used
words as weapons whereas men are more violence like using
(16:43):
swords or guns or whatever, what have you. And also
I read a lot of things that viewed this as
kind of a dismissal of feminine expressions of grief, in
viewing them as weak, and kind of going off of that,
we did look at some history some famous examples of
(17:04):
women getting revenge. But before we get into that, we
have one more quick break for word from our sponsor
and we're back, Thank you sponsor, and we're back with
(17:25):
some history.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So let's get into that.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Throughout our history, Western culture has largely depicted vengeance as
a more masculine avenue. A lot of the monsters from
our Female Monsters episode tell stories of enraged, insatiable vengeance
like the Furies. Less about revenge though, which has more
personal element, but there are similar themes, and there are
plenty of famous historical examples.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
We have real life examples like lorraina Bobbit, but also
going back further, there is the example of Kiyomara, a
Galician noble woman during the Galatian War with Rome around
one hundred and eighty nine BCE. She was take captive
the person in charge of the prisoners, including Kyomara made
several sexual advances towards her, all of which she rejected.
(18:08):
So he raped her, but then felt such guilt about it,
kindly ransomed her to her people, the countrymen that came
for the exchange, with a nod from Kiyomara or perhaps
speaking in their native language depending on the source, that
you know what, you should cut off this guy's head.
The countrymen did that. She took the head, carried it
(18:29):
back with her in her dress, threw it at her
husband's feet.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
When she arrived home.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Her husband said, a noble thing, dear wife, is fidelity,
and she responded, yes, but it is a nobler thing
that only one man be alive who has been intimate
with me.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
So. Artemisia Gentileschi was a painter in the sixteen hundreds
who was raped when she was eighteen, and instead of
punishing the rapists, the court, of course of tortured Artemisia,
which we've seen even today, tying ropes around her fingers
and pulling them tight. As she was tortured, she shouted
out her rapists, who watched in the courtroom, this is
the real you gave me, and these are your promises,
(19:02):
and she repeated unwavering about her testimony. It is true
the entire transcript of the trial survived, and she went
about getting her revenge through her art, painting The Disturbing
and Affected Judith and Holoferness, in which Judith, along with
another woman, hold down Holofernes, slitting his throat.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It is a very effective faint as good one.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
In sixtycee in present day southeast England, Boudica was born.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
She went on to marry Celtic.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
King Proscutagus at the age of eighteen. When Prostutagus died
in forty three CE without a male air, his kingdom,
land and property were annexed by the Romans. They then
publicly flogged Budica and raped her two daughters. Records show
that she declared nothing is safe from Roman pride and arrogance.
They will deface the sacred and will deflower our virgins
when the battle are perished. That is what I a
(19:49):
woman will do. A trained warrior, she helped form a
rebel army of tribes that went on to destroy the
Roman capital of Britain and killed all those that lived there.
The rebel army did the same thing with two other cities,
including London, Records from the time suggest that Budica's rebellion
killed seventy thousand Romans and pro Roman Britons before she
was defeated.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
All right, then, yeah, and perhaps inspired by.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Some of these true stories, perhaps now we have plenty
of fictional examples as well, going way back right.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
In euripides Greek play Medea, this character is sometimes called
the Queen of revenge. Once said a woman's weak and
timid in most matters. The noise of war, the look
of steel make her a coward. But touch her right
in marriage and there's no bloody or spirit. Media's ex husband, Jason,
dished her for another woman for her superficial reasons after
Medea helped him climb the social ladder. The whole play
(20:39):
is about her journey to secure her revenge, not caring
who ends up in the crossfire, including her own children,
taking away what he left for her, a future in royalty,
and when she gets it, she rides off in a
dragon drawn carriage. You meant to give me an abandoned
old age, I give one now to you. This example
is particularly in settling because the Medea flouts her gender
(20:59):
norm both of women being too kind to seek revenge,
but also that women are unfailingly protective maternal of their children,
a twist because we the audience expect the act of
vengeance to take Jason's life.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
This whole thing of revenge seemed to be a theme
in euripides work. Around the mid fourteen twenties BCE. Euripides
also published Hecuba Hekibah was the queen of Troy and
witnessed and experienced many many wrongs, including the deaths of
her husband and sons. She was enslaved by those who
killed her family, Her daughter is sacrificed, and another is
(21:33):
taken as a concubine to be killed. Hecuba, along with
other female captives of the Trojan army, lure the King
of Thrace, Polymester, and his two sons into the women's
tent in a post war encampment, proceed to blind the
king with pens from their dresses and kill his two
young sons. Polymester prophesied that Hecuba would become quote a
dog with fiery eyes. Many scholars interpret this as a
(21:56):
symbol of the fiercely maternal, and this is an early
example the key element in revenge stories about women their
suffering must be detailed and painful enough so that we
are sympathetic and we back them stepping outside of traditional
gender norms by getting revenge instead of punishing them for
transgressing these boundaries. And Janet Claire delved into the dichotomy
(22:18):
of this character as the all suffering, grieving mother and
furious woman set on revenge. She describes quote a culture
that condemned revenge and saw it as a last resort
to which only a male should have recourse, and that
to stage a hecuba as she was staged in classical
tragedy would be to stage a rebellion.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
So when it comes to our modern day entertainment, revenge
is a genre dominated by men, both in leading roles
and when it comes to directors. So when we think
of revenge movies with male protagonists, the wrong at the
heart of the revenge is usually quite different and often
involves the fridging killing off of the main love interests
early in the plot, sidelining her to an object that
(22:56):
functions solely to start the main male character's vengeful journey.
Not only does she die, she's often raped and tortured
prior to death, defiling the man's property quote unquote, we
as the audience, typically root for the man to get
his vengeance, chewing on his typically violent retribution.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah. I mean, how many times have we seen this?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
In every James Bond at least one person loved the
Lovengers that you know for like thirty seconds. Yeah, nake
it on the bed dies immediately, and then of course yeah,
John Wick is famous for the dog and don't care
to be fair. Yeah, I get that killing off the
dog and the wife. And then there's you see so many,
so many of those that begin as I think every
(23:36):
John Statum movie outside of.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So sad but so true, that's exactly how you see it.
You're deathways.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I watched that and that's the beginning plot, and you're like,
what is happening?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah? Also, I guess Mission Impossible. I love how like
every Mission Impossible movie starts with this and then at
the end he's with someone, right, but then she dies
at the.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Time.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Stop, you will never be happy. That's the message. That
is the message. Revenge won't make you happy anyway. Revenge
stories with women at the helm, on the other hand,
usually are more gendered fears and anxieties like sexual assault,
domestic violence, cheating motherhood. While we frequently cheer for these
anti heroines, audiences are more likely to turn on her
(24:24):
than on a male protagonist, giving her as hysterical or deranged.
Some movies even managed to flip somehow so that the
audience sides with the male antagonist or that the woman.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Quote deserved what she can right.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yes, when I was thinking about this, I think men
don't like imagining a world where women can exact revenge
for the wrongs done to them.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Well, I mean, there's so many things about being a
ladylike and being kind and motherly and nurturing that that's
not acceptable. While while the father is the protector, so
of course it crosses the line to be protecting even
if you're protecting yourself, that that's crossing the gender norms boundary,
right sure.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
And we have a lot of examples about that in our.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Upcoming part two of.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
This I've been One of the ones we're going to
talk about that really gripped our collective cultural psyches was
the nineteen seventy eight film I Spit on Your Grave.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's intense. I can you watched that?
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh yeah? Oh yeah, no, that's an intense one.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
It is yes, it very much is, and this was
done by mer Zarky. This movie follows an aspiring writer
who is gang draped and her relentless vengeful pursuit to
take them all out after that. As you might imagine,
this started up a lot of controversy.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Robert Ebert famously.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Despised it, calling it quote one of the most depressing
experiences of my life and describing the film as a.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Vile bag of garbage.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And we're going to do a terrible thing here and
leave it at a cliffhanger like some revenge movies do.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Take that, Yeah, you take that. Listeners, Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
So sorry, just save it. Just one to do until
you know you can do a streaming.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Things, Yeah do yeah, benj it.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yes, we have a part two forthcoming where we're going
to look at our more modern female revenge genre and
specific examples, and we're also focusing in for feminist maybe
Friday on First Wives Club, So keep your ears out
for that. In the meantime, if you have a favorite
revenge movie or any kind of revenge media, you can
(26:38):
email it to us. Our email is Stuff Media Mom
Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find us
on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at
Stuff I'll Never Told You. Thanks as always to our
super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks and thanks to you for
listening Stuff I Never Told You to protection of iHeartRadio's
house Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit iHeartRadio app,
(26:59):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Addy and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Stuff one never told you objection by Heart Radio, And
today we are bringing back part one of our two
parter on Female Revenge. I'm gonna tell you this one
(00:29):
put me in a place. These two put me in
a place, so be prepared. They're a little intense. They're
a little intense, but because of some last of us
related reasons, I thought it.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Would be good to bring it back.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You know, yes, so please enjoy part of our episode
on Female Revenge.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff Mom. Never
told your production of iHeartRadio's House Stuff works. You know
what one of my resolutions is, what is your resolution
to stop saying the intro so quickly?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Oh well, it's better than what I do, since I've
never done it, and I'm just grateful that you do.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
One day, I'm all good.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I am a little fearful of the day that you're
gone with safer and I have to do something because
we're behind or something, and I had to do an
introduction like this, and I'm gonna be like, oh, I
miss Annie so much right now.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
But you can learn from my mistakes. That is one
of my many resolutions. That's not my only resolution.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, I will say one of the problems is because.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You do it.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I don't even pay attention. But it sounds like I
think I tried. We tried this one time with an outro.
I try to do an outro and it was such
a cluster and I was like, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You do it.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I still have to write it down, even though I've
said it so many times. But we're anyway not talking
about resolutions today. We're talking about female Revenge, love It, history,
science examples, and it ballooned into such a big episode.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's now a two parter.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Well, and I think part of that was you and
I kept going on and on and on adding to
the movie list or just a genre of it because
I'm like, I like this one, and like this one
and this one and this one, and this could be considered,
and this is considered because we actually went beyond. We
could talk about TV shows, and we do couple, but
not all of them obviously.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, but then even trips.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
With like books as well as comics or graphic novels,
we don't exactly get into all of that level, right,
So it could be like a five.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Day series, it could be an entire podcast just revenge,
because you're right, I didn't even think about comic books.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
What is it? Yeah with me, I can't believe you
didn't go there. Maybe will come to me as we
do it, So that's your lane.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, Well, we are planning some specific episodes on Birds
of Prey Black Widow, so well we'll come back to
that before we get into all of the stuff we
have to talk about. We did want to put a
trigger warning hair because there's gonna be discussion around sexual
assought violence, brief mentions of mental health, and suicide where
these revenge things get pretty dark. Yes, yeah, and it's
(03:22):
actually something I didn't have too much knowledge around when
it comes to entertainment, this idea of women in revenge.
As I've said before, most revenge media makes me uncomfortable
and nervous, which is funny because I've actually written a
lot of things about revenge in my own life.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So I think I think there's something.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
About the fantastical element of superhero type revenge that I
can click out and it seems like fantasy and watching
like revenge, even though it's heightened usually there's something about it.
It just puts me on edge, which I think is
the point.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, exactly, that is the point. It makes you uncomfortable, right,
It kind of makes you look your shoulders at all times.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Right, And I a good revenge movie makes you question
the main character and whether or not they're justified in
what they're doing.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I think this is definitely one of those anti hero
right ideas.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Right, And I didn't want to say in here.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I have a friend who is excellent at revenge. She
I hope I never end up on her bad side.
The anchovies in the car, the ants in the car. Basically,
your car is not a safe place if you made
her mad.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You know, that's kind of a trope as well, that
the girlfriend, the mean quote unquote crazy girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
They always go after the car, right.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
It does seem to be that type of feel I've
definitely met women that I'm like, Yeah, you scare me
because you have not only do you think of it,
and I think a lot of people think bad thoughts,
but you actually start planning it. And when you start
planning it, you know you better watch out right.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
And so this isn't something I'm very familiar with, but
you are a right.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Yes, I do really really love female revenge movies. Unfortunately,
with some of the me too stuff is it's kind
of taken out of my rotation a lot of the
ones that I really do love, and I'm very sad
about that. I also find it really interesting because one
of the things, and I don't think we mentioned it
in here when we talk about mad Max, one of
the big problems people had was Cherli Stirn playing of
(05:25):
such a pivol character, which in my mind, I'm like,
she still need a saving in the end. So I
don't understand why people are upset people being men and
men's activists, let's put it that way. But it is
a kind of a revenge justice type of mentality as well.
So it's kind of like, Okay, who are we looking at,
who are we rooting for? How are we rooting for it?
(05:45):
And how do we come to like the just desserts?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know? I want to see all that I do.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I love that because I don't always like really dark,
dark things, but when it has a satisfying ending or
a satisfying moment, it makes every.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Thing okay to me. Yeah, it's carthartic.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yes, yes, I made a very foolish mistake in preparation
for this, and I've watched probably fifteen of these in
like four days in an interesting place.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I did not recommend that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
No nobody in there thinking about themselves and their health
wouldn't have done that. I kept telling myself, why no
one's making you do this?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I was, Yeah, I was surprised, And I will say
one of the reasons, and you'll hear in the later episode.
We picked Farst Wives Club because I wanted we were
talking about doing a revenge type of themed movie, but
I wanted to make sure it wasn't over the top
gory and over the top dark. And this is kind
(06:47):
of one of the beginnings of the revenge justice type
of thought process in movies, and not beginning, that's not true,
but you know it was one of the iconic ones. Yeah,
but yeah, and then finding out you watch all these
oh why oh?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But the reason I wanted to say that is because
what you said earlier, the me too thing watching them,
you're gonna recognize when we get to our part two episodes,
several names like the wine scenes come up a lot, right,
fascinating because it makes you wonder the people working on it.
And I know I've read some some reviewsers all this
female revenge maybe makes you wonder.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Makes you And it seems like a female revenge and
anger is something that are on a lot of people's mind.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
He'll have no fury like a woman scorned.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
That is a great great line in anything, A quote
derived from William Congree's sixteenth century English play The Morning Bride,
m You are Ning? And these episodes were in part
inspired by the upcoming Carry mulligan revenge flick Promising Young Woman,
directed by Emerald Fennel. And I was really really like.
I started watching it and I was like, oh, damn, okay, okay, that's.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Taking out the nice guy trope real hard.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, And I really enjoy It's gonna be an intense,
intense scene because within the previews you can already see
the nice guy bits. You have very unassuming, good looking
guys you would never expect. Ab you have the friend
who didn't support her, didn't believe her, and then you
have the teacher figures, yeah, that also don't believe her
(08:21):
and just kind of tell her it's gonna make it
worse for you.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And then she just left and everybody's like, why did
you leave?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yeah, And it definitely had a hard candy vibe to it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Too, which I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, and we're gonna be talking about that film and
another movie that kind of reminds me of that that
I just watched in the Faith. But okay, let's do
our definition bit. The Dictionary definition of revenge is quote
the action of inflicting hurt or harm on someone for
an injury or wrong suffered at their hands. It is
defined as both an act and a desire. Some psychologists
(08:53):
refer to it as narcissistic acts of self repair. The
definition of justice, which is a term that gets thrown
around a lot in conversations around revenge, is just behavior
or treatment, and the line between the two of them
can be murky. Punishment pops up a bit too, which
is a penalty inflicted for wrongdoing. But when I was
(09:16):
trying to think of the differences between these things, and
I do think there can be overlapped. I think the
main thing with revenge is there's a personal emotional aspect
and that it's not so much about justice necessarily. It
might be, but it's more like, I want to hurt
this person who directly hurt me.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Right, it might You might take actions that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Don't worry a lot of the movies are going to
talk about. They kind of go a bit further than
request ally, yes, and yeah, we are as a society
pretty torn on ideas of revenge. There's an eye for
an eye versus the other cheek, which are both from
the Bible. A paper digging into revenge and all of
(09:58):
this found that when part dissipants believed a revenge action
was sanctioned by God, they were more likely to support
revenge and seek it themselves. Revenge is a basic human drive.
The same part of your brain that lights up when
you're in love that sends reward signals lights up when
you think about revenge. The prefrontal cortex shows activity too,
(10:19):
which this is the same area associated with planning how.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
To achieve a goal. That's really intriguing.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Evolutionarily, it may have been a way to keep burgeoning
societies functioning. Those that do wrong that threaten stability get punished,
a tool to prevent future wrongs. And we did touch
on some of the science behind revenge in our Forgiveness episode,
but there's some more we want to touch on because
it is really fascinating. At twenty seventeen, study out of
(10:47):
the University of Kentucky looked into revenge, tasking participants with
writing an essay and then swapping essays for feedback with
other participants, and one of the participants was an undercover
researcher who epically critical feedback. Then the participants were allowed
to express how angry the feedback they had gotten made
(11:08):
them with a voodoo doll and needles. The participants who
had received the negative feedback reported feeling better after engaging
in some revenge basically sticking the doll with needles. A
follow up study looked into whether people would go out
of their way for revenge and they found that to
not be true. People sought it out if they believed
(11:29):
it would make them feel better, but participants led to
believe it wouldn't, and they did this through a placebo
that they called a mood stabilizing pill. Basically, no matter
what you do, your mood's going to stay the same.
Did not pursue revenge against teammates that had let them down.
This corroborates the popular psychological understanding of revenge that its
primary goal is catharsis, followed closely by deterrence and restoration
(11:54):
of self esteem.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
So a similar study found that when given the opportunity
to get revenge against the player who wronged them. Participants
universally took it, but also universally reported feeling worse after
that case compared to those who weren't wrong and therefore
did not seek revenge. Those who had been wronged and
were not given the opportunity to get revenge reported they
believed they would feel better if they had pursued revenge,
(12:15):
even though they were in the happier group. Well, again
the grass is greener idea. Yet another study found that
acts of revenge are only better than not getting revenge
in cases where the revenge is acknowledged and the balance
is restored.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Right So if it goes unacknowledged, then you don't get
the same.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right like benefit from it.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And as we talked about in our forgiveness episode, most
science indicates that revenge is satisfying in the short term,
but associated with more negative outcomes in the long term.
Instead of providing closure, it keeps a wound fresh. Yet
another study found that when asked about a time they
got revenge in a time when they were the target
of revenge.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Almost everyone.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I love this, Almost everyone deemed their act of revenge
as just and appropriate. And the act of revenge against
them as excessive.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Of course, of course, how dare you exactly?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Oh, humanity.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
We actually have a lot more science and history about
revenge to get into, but first we have a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
(13:33):
Thank you sponsor. So one thing I was curious about
is the question of why do we like revenge stories.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Well, obviously, revenge stories are satisfying.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like I just said, they're cathartic.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
In a world where bad things happen to a good
people without rhyme or reason, a reality beset with senseless smiles,
it's comforting to think that those who have wronged us
will face the consequence and then so huh hope. Most
of our revenge media functions like a fantasy where everything
is exaggerated.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It reminds me of what we talked about in Whitey
People victim blame, where we're always trying to find a
reason for or to find balance, right, to make things just.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
For there's sense. Yeah, I think that's the true libra
in me. I needed to be Oh that's out, y'all?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Oh okay, all falling into place from doctor Edward Halliwell,
psychiatrist and author, quote, the pursuit of revenge is a
turn on.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's an adrenaline rush. You can really get into.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It, and once you have experienced it, you want to
do it again and again, and it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Becomes a way of life.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
He argues that if you wanted, you could frame our
entire history in terms of revenge.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I think that's what wars are essentially, when you look
at the bottom line and money.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Oh yeah, and of course money.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
In the two thousand and eight study out of Australia
conducted by doctor Ian McKee, you found a link that
suggested that those most interested in revenge were people more
motivated by power, specifically right wing authoritarians and some sort
of social dominance and all the attributes that go with it.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Other studies have shown that events that inspire revenge differ
by culture and others that revenge is viewed differently among
communities without access to legal means of justice. There are
entire websites dedicated to helping you get revenge. Think the
Exploding Glitterboxes or get your Revenge on your x dot
com run by a man whose wife cheated on him.
(15:30):
According to him, most of his clients are female.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I don't want to look it up. No.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
A recent study found that men enjoy revenge more than women.
When shown instances of wrongdoers getting punished, male participants were
more likely to feel pleasure, while female participants were more
likely to feel empathy. Another study looking into gender differences
found that men were far likelier than women to engage
in revenge of fantasies, and that even children fantasize about
(15:59):
getting I've seen this as a nanny and as a
person who was in the field.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I've seen this. Okay, you sometimes are really crafty too.
Just wants to know that I believe it.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
The women reported that they believed revenge was ultimately pointless,
and a lot of the women who did express revenge
fantasies were more likely to turn the revenge inwards, imagining
about harming themselves to punish those that harmed them.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There is a certain level of breaking gender norms in
female revenge entertainment. Traditionally, aggression and violence are associated with men. Anger,
the emotion most closely associated with revenge, is traditionally viewed
as a more masculine, sanctioned emotion. Historically, women have used
words as weapons whereas men are more violence like using
(16:43):
swords or guns or whatever, what have you. And also
I read a lot of things that viewed this as
kind of a dismissal of feminine expressions of grief, in
viewing them as weak, and kind of going off of that,
we did look at some history some famous examples of
(17:04):
women getting revenge. But before we get into that, we
have one more quick break for word from our sponsor
and we're back, Thank you sponsor, and we're back with
(17:25):
some history.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So let's get into that.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Throughout our history, Western culture has largely depicted vengeance as
a more masculine avenue. A lot of the monsters from
our Female Monsters episode tell stories of enraged, insatiable vengeance
like the Furies. Less about revenge though, which has more
personal element, but there are similar themes, and there are
plenty of famous historical examples.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
We have real life examples like lorraina Bobbit, but also
going back further, there is the example of Kiyomara, a
Galician noble woman during the Galatian War with Rome around
one hundred and eighty nine BCE. She was take captive
the person in charge of the prisoners, including Kyomara made
several sexual advances towards her, all of which she rejected.
(18:08):
So he raped her, but then felt such guilt about it,
kindly ransomed her to her people, the countrymen that came
for the exchange, with a nod from Kiyomara or perhaps
speaking in their native language depending on the source, that
you know what, you should cut off this guy's head.
The countrymen did that. She took the head, carried it
(18:29):
back with her in her dress, threw it at her
husband's feet.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
When she arrived home.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Her husband said, a noble thing, dear wife, is fidelity,
and she responded, yes, but it is a nobler thing
that only one man be alive who has been intimate
with me.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
So. Artemisia Gentileschi was a painter in the sixteen hundreds
who was raped when she was eighteen, and instead of
punishing the rapists, the court, of course of tortured Artemisia,
which we've seen even today, tying ropes around her fingers
and pulling them tight. As she was tortured, she shouted
out her rapists, who watched in the courtroom, this is
the real you gave me, and these are your promises,
(19:02):
and she repeated unwavering about her testimony. It is true
the entire transcript of the trial survived, and she went
about getting her revenge through her art, painting The Disturbing
and Affected Judith and Holoferness, in which Judith, along with
another woman, hold down Holofernes, slitting his throat.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It is a very effective faint as good one.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
In sixtycee in present day southeast England, Boudica was born.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
She went on to marry Celtic.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
King Proscutagus at the age of eighteen. When Prostutagus died
in forty three CE without a male air, his kingdom,
land and property were annexed by the Romans. They then
publicly flogged Budica and raped her two daughters. Records show
that she declared nothing is safe from Roman pride and arrogance.
They will deface the sacred and will deflower our virgins
when the battle are perished. That is what I a
(19:49):
woman will do. A trained warrior, she helped form a
rebel army of tribes that went on to destroy the
Roman capital of Britain and killed all those that lived there.
The rebel army did the same thing with two other cities,
including London, Records from the time suggest that Budica's rebellion
killed seventy thousand Romans and pro Roman Britons before she
was defeated.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
All right, then, yeah, and perhaps inspired by.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Some of these true stories, perhaps now we have plenty
of fictional examples as well, going way back right.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
In euripides Greek play Medea, this character is sometimes called
the Queen of revenge. Once said a woman's weak and
timid in most matters. The noise of war, the look
of steel make her a coward. But touch her right
in marriage and there's no bloody or spirit. Media's ex husband, Jason,
dished her for another woman for her superficial reasons after
Medea helped him climb the social ladder. The whole play
(20:39):
is about her journey to secure her revenge, not caring
who ends up in the crossfire, including her own children,
taking away what he left for her, a future in royalty,
and when she gets it, she rides off in a
dragon drawn carriage. You meant to give me an abandoned
old age, I give one now to you. This example
is particularly in settling because the Medea flouts her gender
(20:59):
norm both of women being too kind to seek revenge,
but also that women are unfailingly protective maternal of their children,
a twist because we the audience expect the act of
vengeance to take Jason's life.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
This whole thing of revenge seemed to be a theme
in euripides work. Around the mid fourteen twenties BCE. Euripides
also published Hecuba Hekibah was the queen of Troy and
witnessed and experienced many many wrongs, including the deaths of
her husband and sons. She was enslaved by those who
killed her family, Her daughter is sacrificed, and another is
(21:33):
taken as a concubine to be killed. Hecuba, along with
other female captives of the Trojan army, lure the King
of Thrace, Polymester, and his two sons into the women's
tent in a post war encampment, proceed to blind the
king with pens from their dresses and kill his two
young sons. Polymester prophesied that Hecuba would become quote a
dog with fiery eyes. Many scholars interpret this as a
(21:56):
symbol of the fiercely maternal, and this is an early
example the key element in revenge stories about women their
suffering must be detailed and painful enough so that we
are sympathetic and we back them stepping outside of traditional
gender norms by getting revenge instead of punishing them for
transgressing these boundaries. And Janet Claire delved into the dichotomy
(22:18):
of this character as the all suffering, grieving mother and
furious woman set on revenge. She describes quote a culture
that condemned revenge and saw it as a last resort
to which only a male should have recourse, and that
to stage a hecuba as she was staged in classical
tragedy would be to stage a rebellion.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
So when it comes to our modern day entertainment, revenge
is a genre dominated by men, both in leading roles
and when it comes to directors. So when we think
of revenge movies with male protagonists, the wrong at the
heart of the revenge is usually quite different and often
involves the fridging killing off of the main love interests
early in the plot, sidelining her to an object that
(22:56):
functions solely to start the main male character's vengeful journey.
Not only does she die, she's often raped and tortured
prior to death, defiling the man's property quote unquote, we
as the audience, typically root for the man to get
his vengeance, chewing on his typically violent retribution.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah. I mean, how many times have we seen this?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
In every James Bond at least one person loved the
Lovengers that you know for like thirty seconds. Yeah, nake
it on the bed dies immediately, and then of course yeah,
John Wick is famous for the dog and don't care
to be fair. Yeah, I get that killing off the
dog and the wife. And then there's you see so many,
so many of those that begin as I think every
(23:36):
John Statum movie outside of.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So sad but so true, that's exactly how you see it.
You're deathways.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I watched that and that's the beginning plot, and you're like,
what is happening?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah? Also, I guess Mission Impossible. I love how like
every Mission Impossible movie starts with this and then at
the end he's with someone, right, but then she dies
at the.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Time.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Stop, you will never be happy. That's the message. That
is the message. Revenge won't make you happy anyway. Revenge
stories with women at the helm, on the other hand,
usually are more gendered fears and anxieties like sexual assault,
domestic violence, cheating motherhood. While we frequently cheer for these
anti heroines, audiences are more likely to turn on her
(24:24):
than on a male protagonist, giving her as hysterical or deranged.
Some movies even managed to flip somehow so that the
audience sides with the male antagonist or that the woman.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Quote deserved what she can right.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yes, when I was thinking about this, I think men
don't like imagining a world where women can exact revenge
for the wrongs done to them.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Well, I mean, there's so many things about being a
ladylike and being kind and motherly and nurturing that that's
not acceptable. While while the father is the protector, so
of course it crosses the line to be protecting even
if you're protecting yourself, that that's crossing the gender norms boundary,
right sure.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
And we have a lot of examples about that in our.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Upcoming part two of.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
This I've been One of the ones we're going to
talk about that really gripped our collective cultural psyches was
the nineteen seventy eight film I Spit on Your Grave.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's intense. I can you watched that?
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh yeah? Oh yeah, no, that's an intense one.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
It is yes, it very much is, and this was
done by mer Zarky. This movie follows an aspiring writer
who is gang draped and her relentless vengeful pursuit to
take them all out after that. As you might imagine,
this started up a lot of controversy.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Robert Ebert famously.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Despised it, calling it quote one of the most depressing
experiences of my life and describing the film as a.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Vile bag of garbage.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And we're going to do a terrible thing here and
leave it at a cliffhanger like some revenge movies do.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Take that, Yeah, you take that. Listeners, Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
So sorry, just save it. Just one to do until
you know you can do a streaming.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Things, Yeah do yeah, benj it.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yes, we have a part two forthcoming where we're going
to look at our more modern female revenge genre and
specific examples, and we're also focusing in for feminist maybe
Friday on First Wives Club, So keep your ears out
for that. In the meantime, if you have a favorite
revenge movie or any kind of revenge media, you can
(26:38):
email it to us. Our email is Stuff Media Mom
Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find us
on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at
Stuff I'll Never Told You. Thanks as always to our
super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks and thanks to you for
listening Stuff I Never Told You to protection of iHeartRadio's
house Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit iHeartRadio app,
(26:59):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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