SMNTY Classics: The Female Revengers (Part 2)

The female revenge movies strike back! In part two of our classic look in women and revenge, we look into our more modern genre of female vengeance.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Stuff I've Never Told you production iHeart Radio,
and welcome welcome to part two of our look at
women and revenge, And especially in this part two, we're
looking at more modern takes on women in revenge and

(00:33):
in our media. As I mentioned in previous classic part one,
some of it is pretty intense, so just be be bare.
But it's really interesting, really fascinating stuff, so please enjoy
this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and

(00:54):
welcome to stuff I'll Never told your production of Iheartradios
how stuff works.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
And we're back and we're back.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Sorry about the cliffhanger. We're actually gonna be talking about
one of the most famous cliffhangers of all time in
this episode. I cannot wait to talk about it. I
will leave you in suspense.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm thinking through our list. I'm like, wait, which one.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
I will leave you in suspense. If you haven't listened
to our part one on revenge all about the science
and history, suggest you go do that because in this
one we're going to be looking at specific examples of
our more modern female revenge right right, and trigger warning
before we get into it for sexual assault, violence, and

(01:43):
brief mentions of mental health and suicide. Like we said
in the previous episode, one aspect of revenge films, they
are fantastical, they are heightened, they are usually ultra violent,
and I was thinking why this might be why I
watched way too many of them, and I think it's
because it ups the satisfaction. Nothing will ever erase what

(02:07):
was done, and if the feeling of relief or satisfaction
is destructive, it will only last in the short term.
As we said in the previous episode, might as well
exaggerate it and keep doing it to keep getting revenge
in your fantasies. You don't hold back, you induled, you'd
try to imagine how you can inflict as much pain

(02:28):
and damage as was done to you. And also, as
we said in the previous episode, science shows were really
bad at judging the appropriate amount of payback. So let's
talk about some of these examples. But first disclaimer, almost
all of them are white women. There's a lot of
articles written about why that is. White women are allowed

(02:49):
to be angry and vengeful and yet remain sympathetic and
deserving of our empathy in a way that women of
color still are not. But that is changing very slowly,
but it is changing.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
All right.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
And another disclaimer, I guess we categorized our examples into
some basic recurring tropes. They're kind of arbitrary. They are
things that come up a lot, and a lot of
them do overlap and could be in multiple categories. But
we did our best to organize them in a way
that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yes, because there's a lot of them, it turns.

Speaker 5 (03:22):
Out, and again, they do overlap a lot, so you
could be talking about one example in one place, but
also could attribute to other places.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yes, absolutely sure.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
And one of the biggest genres that we needed to
talk about is the genre rape and revenge. Rape and
revenge films, as you can imagine, these are very divisive
movies that have generated a lot of discussion about exploitation
and empowerment. These films typically start with a traditionally beautiful
young woman getting raped, often by more than one man,

(03:53):
and then often left four dead, not always, then comes
the revenge violent frequently a penis gits cut off. The
rape is often quite long and brutal. These movies long
have been for the most part written and directed by men,
which is part of the main criticism of them and
the rape scene filmed through the mail gaze and the

(04:15):
attackers pov. This puts the audience in position of sympathizing
with the rapist. Do sometimes pornographic elements raise the question
of rape as a form of entertainment?

Speaker 5 (04:25):
I think we had that conversation for Game of Thrones
that was definitely one of the big criticisms that happened there.
So these movies rose to popularity during the seventies in
the US, which coincided with discussions around so many issues
and anxieties around women, including Roe versus Wade and abortion.
But it also was when our society started taking rape
seriously and also the loosening of censorship restrictions. So you

(04:47):
can see our feminist movie Friday Alien addition that we
dearly love for more on the social anxieties around women
and how they are reflected in our movies. So in
I Spit on Your Grave, main character Jennifer undergoes an
unrelenting twenty one minutes of rape in total, and it
engages in about forty five minutes of revenge. The actor

(05:08):
who played Jennifer kamil Keaton allegedly said of the revenge
portion that it made melt in our audience significantly uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
I'm sure it did, I hope. So.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, and yes, we mentioned that one at the end
of our Our part one is being kind of one
of the big first examples in the United States. But
it wasn't the first one. It wasn't the first rape
revenge movie at all. In nineteen sixty one, Igmar Bergmann's
The Virgin Spring, a film depicting a medieval poem about
a man's revenge against the men who raped his daughter,

(05:38):
one Best Foreign Language Film. It went on to inspire
Wes Craven's The Last House on the Left in nineteen
seventy two, and worth mentioning the woman who is raped
is not always the one getting revenge. That's something else
we'd sort of talked about in our Part one. From
Sarah Priyanski's book Watching Rape, Film and Television and post
feminist culture, film in this subgenre, quote depend on rape

(06:02):
to motivate and justify a particularly violent version of masculinity,
relegating the women to minor props in the narrative. She
also wrote of the quote feminist paradox between a desire
to end rape and a need to represent and therefore
perpetuate discursive rape in order to challenge it.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
So a few other prominent examples we wanted to mention
Miss forty five, a nineteen eighty one film about a
mute woman who is raped twice in one day and
goes on a killing spree with her forty five, first
focusing on men who have wronged women, and then targeting
any man.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
That crosses her path.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
The Accused of nineteen eighty nine Jonathan Kaplan film starring
Jodi Foster as a woman who gets gaining raped at
a bar to the cheers of patrons, and this is
based on the real life nineteen eighty three case of
Cheryl Orajo. This film does not show the rape scene
n ttil the very end, when a mel witness recounts
the event in court, and perhaps to reflect the unfortunate
truth that we as a society trust men's words over

(06:55):
women's and just kind of throw it out there. Jody
Foster also did another one called The Brain, which was
after her at her fiance are brutally attacked, she goes
on on a vigilante spree.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, so she said in a few of those.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
That's kind of an interesting flip on it.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
In nineteen eighty four, the British Board of Censors labeled
rape and revenge movies quote video nasties, and they were
deemed too explicit to be sold in stores. The board
said that they quote glorified the act of rape and
inspired copycat crimes.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
Steig Larsen's two thousand and five book Girl with a
Dragon Tattoo later made it into a Swedish film and
then an American remake, has a side plot of rape
and revenge. When the main character, Elizabeth, is coerced and
satially assaulted by her state appointed legal guardian, the person
who controls her money. Essentially, she ties him down and
tattoo's rapist pig across his chest. After securing from him

(07:49):
control of her life and finances, he cowers away from
her next time they see each other, And there's an
argument to be made that the main plot is sort
of a rape revenge story. And the original title of
the book, by the way, was men who Hate Women, which, yeah,
it's an interesting concept because the whole it seems to
be an origin story for her, which I think you
and I talked a lot about while we were watching
First Wives Club. There's always some origin story. And even

(08:12):
though this is not necessarily your typical superhero movies obviously,
but this is still kind of the hero or anti
hero movies.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
But yeah, I guess you're right, because that's her origin story.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
But then the plot of what happened in this mystery
has a lot to do with what happened to the
young girls. Yes, and it definitely rolls with that whole theme.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yes, and I might be mistake. I'm pretty sure there's
a new one on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yes, in the American version.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
He is, ok. But there's another new one. Oh, Okay, Yes,
I think I think that's Clairefoy in it.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Anyway, the category is a bit more diverse, this rape
prevenged category than most people might think, especially more modernly.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
And this is where I come in because I watched.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
A lot of Yes still wow.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nerrer entries into the genre are changing things up with
a spate of female directed rape revenge movies that do
not employ the male gaze that focus on the survivor instead.
They are also more realistic in that the rape is
perpetrayed by someone the woman knows, different from stranger stranger
danger perpetrators of earlier films in the genre, and during

(09:22):
the rape scene or scenes, the focus is on the
experience of the victim rather than the perpetrator and the
aftermath of the trauma and PTSD. For example, Corley Farjat's
Revenge in twenty seventeen. This is a French rape revenge
movie that follows Jen, who is the mistress of a
rich married man named Richard. While on vacation on a

(09:43):
remote island only accessible via helicopter, one of Richard's friends
rapes her while Richard is away. Instead of lashing out
at his friend, though when he finds out, he of
course pushes her off a cliff, leaves her for dead,
and Jin gets her revenge. There's a very fascinating line

(10:04):
at the end where he says something like women always
have to put.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Up a fight.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh, oh, that same thing.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, and then MFA I also watched this one. This
was a twenty seventeen film directed by Natalia Leita and
written by Leah McKendrick, and it follows art student Noel
played by Francesca Eastwood. And Noel is an introvert and
she's a bit of an outcast in her program. Her
art is consistently criticized by her professor, and the students

(10:33):
like publicly for being timid. She has a crush on
her fellow art student Luke, who also seems to reciprocate
her feelings, but then Luke brutally sexually assaults her. The
camera stays focused on her during this whole thing. You
can see her disassociate. The music drops out and go
there's like a droning humming sound, which reminds me of

(10:55):
my one of my favorite episodes of television ever and
an episode of Buffy where her mom dies. Noel is
at first consumed with thoughts of getting justice she does.
She tells her roommate right away, and her roommate says,
don't report it because I had a friend it the
same thing happened to her and nobody believed her and
made her feel terrible about herself. But Noel goes and

(11:18):
does it anyway, and lo and behold, it's all like
did you have something to drink? Did you what? Did
anybody see it? How long were you together alone? And
like all these questions that made her doubt herself. Did
you ever say no?

Speaker 4 (11:32):
What she did? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (11:35):
So then she goes to a support group, and the
support group is more intent on here's the fingernail polish
that you can dip and it'll detect the date rate
drug or you know, ways of like dealing with it
or finding support.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
And when Noel is like, well, why don't.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
We try to stop the people that are doing the raping,
and they're kind of like, wow, that's the world we
live in. Yeah, So she confronts her attacker, accidentally kills him,
kind of gets a taste for it, and starts seeking
out rapist and killing them. And as she's doing this,

(12:14):
her art is becoming more and more brave as a
professor for it, like them, Wow, this is so good enough,
so that at the end she's the one they select
to give the like speech because she's made such progress.
And then she gets arrested after she gets her MFA,
she gets arrested.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
She had a glow up and then arrested. No, it's
not always there.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
So in Jennificant Nightingale from twenty eighteen, set in eighteen
twenty five Colonial Australia, after the film's protagonist, Irish convict Claire,
is raped and she's determined to get revenge on her attacker,
who also murdered her infant child and husband, obviously in tandem.
The narrative explores the persecution of Australia's Indigenous people, and
the rape scenes unfold entirely from Claire's point of view,

(13:13):
and the frame closes in on her face. Kent said
in an interview about the reaction to the film, what
I've learned is the difficult relationship we have is in
separating the act of rape as an act of sex
as opposed to an act of violence. I'm in the
latter camp. It's using a sexual act attempt to annihilate
another human being. That's its aim. I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
That was a really tough one too.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
Yeah, which is also when I watched revenge films typically
stay away from those, so which is why I'm like,
I would never told you.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Watch I did not know. Should have texted me?

Speaker 4 (13:51):
They are all heartbreakings. I wouldn't.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
I wouldn't have watched it with you, but I would
have at least supported you through text.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
Me like are you okay?

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Are you okay?

Speaker 4 (13:58):
Now? How are you now? It was they were rough,
they were rough.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
So those are some prominent examples from that that genre
of female revenge, which is a pretty big one, and
it is it is nice to see that women are
making them now. I think that is a good step.
But let's turn to another category here, which is kind
of broad. But the bride slash mother slash family revenge.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
Right, And I think I see that in a lot
of you. And I've talked about this repeatedly about how
ghosts and hauntings have a lot to do with mother's
and vengeance.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yes, And I'm like.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
What, what what? Why is that such a thing?

Speaker 4 (14:36):
I don't know, but it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
So if you think of these sort of stereotypical roles
of women as the scorned bride of the scorned lover,
the mother whose child has been abused or killed, or
the dutiful orconniving daughter, it's kind of what we're talking
about here, although cheating and scorn is a whole category
on to itself, because it's such a big one that
we'll get to in a moment if you could go
all the way back. If you look at Shakespeare, he

(15:01):
frequently dabbled in tales of betrayal and revenge in this genre,
although not too often with women. King Lear is an example,
though two of king Lear's daughters, Reagan and Goneril, enraged
by his clear favoritism of his youngest daughter, their sister,
Cordelia seek to get revenge against the both of them.
Cordelia is banished and her father. He does this whole

(15:25):
thing at the beginning where he asks the three of them.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Who loves me the most, and ills, oh, I know.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
And the first two sisters go into this whole spiel,
and then Cordelia, who does love him the most, is like,
I'm not sure. I can't find the words to express
how much I love you. They don't exist, and he thinks, oh, well,
clearly and banishes her. And this leaves him kind of
at the whims of two of her sisters. Yeah, And

(15:58):
they enact all these plans for power mostly, but as
happens a lot in these, the tension grows between Reagan
and Goneril, who are both obsessed with obtaining the most
power and both are competing for the love of the
same man. Cordelia attempts to rescue her father, but they
both end up dying in prison. Reagan and Guneril, meanwhile,

(16:21):
both perish, Reagan after Gnerail poisons her and Goneril kills herself,
both consumed by vengeance.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Leaving many victims in their wake.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
And then there is a film called The Bridewer Black,
which is from a nineteen sixty eight by Francois Chufatt
based on the book by William Irish slash Cornell Woolwich
went by pseudonym, and this is about a woman systematically
seeking revenge on the five men who murdered her husband
on their wedding day. One by one she murders them,

(16:52):
and as the events lead up to the grooms Day,
the grooms Day, the groom's death are revealed via flashback,
we as the audience can see sort of what happened,
we can piece it together. In one instance, she models
that as the huntress Diana. For one of her victims,
he's an artist and he's painting her and she has
this arrow and.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
You're like, oh, yeah, it's going down, it's going down. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
She shoots him with the arrow, but she she kind
of looks at the mural depicting her, has a moment,
doesn't paint over it, doesn't get rid of it, and
is arrested and prison She kills her fifth and final victim,
who she hadn't been able to get to previously because
he had been imprisoned himself.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Ah yeah, that point yep, then there's enough.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
With Jennifer Lopez from two thousand and two, which was
based on the nineteen ninety eight novel by Anna Quinnlin
Black and Blue. Jennifer Lopez plays Slim, a woman who
threatens to leave her abusive husband and father to her
daughter after discovering he was having an affair. He beats
her in response, informing her that unless she's willing to fight,
he's not going to stop having in this affair, and

(18:00):
that because he's a man, it's quote no contest. She
attempts to leave with her daughter and the help of
some friends, but is foiled.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
She was forced to flee.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
She asks her rich father for money to help her escape,
but he gives her just twelve dollars because he doesn't
leave her. He changes this tune, however, when he's threatened
by Slim's husband's men, and he helps her buy a house.
After a lawyer informs her essentially no one's gonna believe you.
Slim takes martial arts classes and methodically plans her revenge.

(18:30):
She wins in a fight between them and eventually kills
him in self defense.

Speaker 5 (18:34):
That movie had this big build up to be this
epic scene. Did you watch it a.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Long time ago? And I saw it on TBS, so
I'm sure it was edited.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
I'm sure, but it really is kind of antichomatic. You're like, Oh,
I really, maybe.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
This is me needing big it in my life.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
Just like that lasted thirty seconds and half the time
was he put her in a corner and she had
to fight her way out, and I guess that made
her the absolute victim, so she couldn't be disliked at
any point in time.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
But it seemed kind of anti climactic.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
You're like, why she did all these prepping and you
would think that there's an ultimate showdown, but essentially she
has to trap them, trick them, and then she ends
up being the bigger person, but does end up killing
him trying to give him his lee leeway apparently kind
of reminds me of us sleeping with the enemy, except
in sleeping with the enemy, he comes after her, she

(19:24):
tries to leave. Have you seen that movie? That's interesting?
So in Quentin Tarantinees killed Bill, which kind of was
one of the reasons you and I started talking about
more and more about all the revenge films. In Volume
one and Volume two, made in two thousand and three.
These films followed Beatrix Kiddo played by Uma Thurman, and
her violent journey to get revenge after she is shot
up all pregnant on her wedding day, and she sometimes

(19:45):
referred to as the bride. Actually throughout the whole first
it is she's the bride. However, it's also kind of
a rape revenge film. While pretending to be comatos, she
was sexually assaulted multiple times, and then if you watch
the movie, you know the old bloody, bloody ending. Tarantino
labeled Kill Bill as a feminist statement, and I know
that this was actually written with miss Thurman in mind,

(20:09):
and I believe while she was pregnant with her first child,
they were kind of coming up with this idea together.
From what I understood, this is a long line of
movies with badass women working for a dude, which Tarantino
has this weird obsession with very strong women. I don't
know if it's weird, but he has an obsession with
very strong women, which makes you go yayay right. And

(20:30):
obviously this was produced by Weinstein, which is part of
the reason we didn't want to do an entire episode
dedicated to one of these movies, even though to me,
I think that's one of the big obviously big shout
outs to women protective, being motherly and being strong.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
And with that.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
During the middle of the many revelations being finally heard
and believed about mister Weinstein, which you know, we're still
dealing with him and his walker herself, many people were
waiting for Uma Thurman's response because she had such a
big relationship with both of them, and she finally did
with the statement she said in a tweet. No, she
said it in a post. I feel it's important to

(21:09):
take your time, be fair, be exact. So dot dot
dot happy Thanksgiving everyone except you, Harvey and all your
wicked conspirators. I'm glad it's going slowly. You don't deserve
a bullet, which is a very kiddo statement to make.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
And of course she elaborated her story with.

Speaker 5 (21:25):
I think in an interview I can't remember who the
interview was with when she did talk about all of
the abuse and all of the trauma that she had
to go through while filming these movies. And I think,
I know we're going to talk about another movie as
it comes down, but it kind of just again, it
is kind of what you were saying, it's kind of weird, yeah,
that it was created by this man, and obviously there's

(21:45):
this double fold reality of what was happening behind the
scenes as well as trying to empower women or talk
about women being empowered and coming to seek vengeance.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
This a whole different perspective.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, And I watched these very late last night for
the first time in a long time I've seen them before,
and I do love the ending of the second one
where the revenge kind of weighs out everything else. Right,
it like has to happen. It's just been building up, right,

(22:16):
There's a couple.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
And there's a couple of things within that.

Speaker 5 (22:18):
When we talk about oshi Orn's character, her origin story
was because of vengeance when she watches her which was
one of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen in
my life. I think I was so distraught after I
saw it in the movies of her witnessing her parents
being murdered. So also Vivica A. Fox's character. They kind
of kept it open to have her daughter who witnessed

(22:40):
the murder, to possibly come back with a vengeance.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
Story of the cycle. Revenge. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, it never ends.

Speaker 5 (22:46):
Which, yeah, of course, and it was I think, what
an interesting concept.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
And then something else we want to talk about, the
nineteen sixty eight novel True Grit by Charles Portus, later
made into a twenty ten Coen Brothers movies ring Hailey Steinfeld,
and before that a nineteen sixty nine John Wayne film.

Speaker 5 (23:04):
Loved that John Wayne film. I've never seen that one.
That's what I grew up on.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
I actually didn't see a John Wayne film until I
was in college. But anyway, So this is a western
about young girl Mattie Ross and her mission to get
revenge on the man who murdered her father with the
help of a US marshall and a Texas ranger.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Both men, though.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
They agree, they repeatedly try to ditch her despite her
insistence that she accompanied them, but she is more determined
than they realize, and eventually they're like, Okay, you can come.
She eventually does get her revenge. Her target says something
like I didn't think you'd do it after she shoots him,
and she also climbs out of a rattlesnake pit using
the bones of a skeleton in there with her.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Is that the book because in the movie is different.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
I think it's in the book.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, there's a lot of theorizing about the
symbolize what that symbolizes in there. Then there's Martin McDonough's
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, which is a twenty seventeen
film that follows Francis mcdorman's character Mildred, who is a
mother trying to get revenge for her daughter's rape and
murder and taking it out on just about everyone, but

(24:11):
mainly the police that pretty much have dismissed on and
given up on the case.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
On fact, I got.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Hit by car while crossing the street to go see
this movie, and then I went to go and my
friends I was seeing it with They were like, what's
wrong with your legs? And I said, we'll see. I
remember it so well.

Speaker 5 (24:31):
Did you decide to take vengeance on the do that
hit you?

Speaker 4 (24:33):
All I know is he is a white car from California.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
That's all I Yeah. That could have been the beginning
of a new movie that could.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
You prevented me?

Speaker 4 (24:42):
Remember? I remember find you?

Speaker 1 (24:45):
So?

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Game of Thrones, as we were talking about earlier, was
full of women seeking revenge from Aria's list to Stance's
orchestrating the painful death of r abuser Ramsey and Danara's
entire quest for the Iron throne and her vengeful ending
as well. Also wanted to stick in here the Korean
horror film b Deviled, which has several things including the
loss of the daughter and I guess in some way
a loss of a friendship. It was to me one

(25:07):
of the most disturbing movies because it's they're isolated on
the small island and she's getting pretty abused by her husband,
his brother, her mother, Like it's just a constant, and
it of course it's centered around that and with the
loss and then causes this woman to quote unquote snap
as I've seen in reviews, murdering the entire islands inhabitants.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
And it's very, very brutal.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
But yeah, it's definitely one of those up there when
it comes to like being a mother, she was okay,
she dealt with the abuse, and then she finally was like,
oh no.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
The last straw Well speak.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
We got another category, a huge one to talk about,
and that is cheating. But first we have a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Spons here, and we are back with the huge cats.
When it comes to female revenge, women getting revenge on
men who cheated on them or are who weren't loyal
to them.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
Right So The Women, a nineteen thirty nine film inspired
by Claire booth Luce's play, directed by George Kuchar, with
a screenplay written by Anita Loos and Jane Murfin, and
starting only women for all one hundred and thirty speaking roles,
including iconic Joan Crawford. Even all the subjects in the
super glodsy Manhattan apartments are are almost all of women. However,

(26:34):
though men aren't present, they are much discussed. The plot
follows Mary, who, after finding out her husband is cheating
on her, plans to get revenge on the other woman
and a divorce from her husband, largely at the encouragement
of her friends. On a train ride on her way
to secure her divorce, she meets several other women doing
the same thing, gossip, backstabbing, cat fights and winning back husbands.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Oh my gosh, I watch this too.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
For this it's a classic.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
It's a lot happening, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
For someone who loves the Transatlantic accent, I have trouble
understanding it.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Sometimes it's like, wait a minute, what are you saying.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's definitely those time.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
One of the quotes I really loved don't confide in
your girlfriends. If you do, they'll see to it in
the name of friendship that you lose your husband and
your home. And that's from Mary's mom. The movie's tagline
was see them with their hair down and their claws out.
And apparently during one of the cat fights, when one
of the actresses, she gets bitten, like that was real

(27:32):
and she has a scarf from it.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
It was such a big thing that not too long ago,
they just did a whole little.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Mini series based on their relationship.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Whoa Whoa. I was when I was watching.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
I was thinking that in this world that all these
women were growing up and you can't have jobs, or
it's harder to have a job, you can't have property,
or it's harder to own property, and money can't open
lines of credit. Is it really so surprising that all
these women are competing with each other and tearing each
other down.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
I don't, I don't know right.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
Also, of note, this did spawn several remakes, including the
musical The Opposite Sucks, which I watched I'm an old
person and of course our new fab first Wife's club.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yes you love it so.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
Nineteen eighty Seven's Fatal Attraction. Michael Douglas's character chief on
his wife with Glenn Close, who does not appreciate when
he tries to step away.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
From their relationship.

Speaker 5 (28:25):
She goes down a path of increasingly intense acts of revenge,
including sitting an audio tape listening all the ways he
is a selfish piece of garbage, and yeah, broiling his
child's pet bunny, which is one of the more iconic
scenes that everybody remembers, the bunny scene.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
The bunny scene, the bunny scene, and this one is
a great example of one of the main differences between
revenge movies with a male protagonist versus a female protagonist,
because you're not meant to root for Glenn Close at all. No,
you were meant to see her as over your acting crazy,
and to be fair, she does a lot of things
that weren't that. But if a male protagonist had done
this same thing, I'm not super convinced audiences wouldn't still

(29:02):
be on his side.

Speaker 5 (29:03):
Right, because then you also look at the fact of
his wife is barely there, barely present, in the movie,
and she's just the aw s film and no one
really sees the bottom line that he's an asshole cheated.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Right right, And then oh this one the nineteen ninety
nine film Cool Intentions, which I also watched. This directed
by Roger Gumbole and starring Sarah Michelle Geller.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Have you not seen it before?

Speaker 4 (29:31):
Nope?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Oh wow, Yeah, Reese Witherspoon, Ryan Philippi, and Selma Blair.
This movie is based on the seventeen eighty two novel
Les Liaezus, written by Pierre Chalc Toros de Lachlos. This
is set in a in Manhattan at large, but in
a prep school specifically, and it's dark, comedic, with an

(29:53):
at the time.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Rare on screen female kiss.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
They won an award on the NAMTV.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yes Sexiest that's right, of course.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Keller's bro character, Katherine tries to enlist Felipe's character her
stepbrother Sebastian help her get revenge on an X by
seducing Blair's character Seceal, the girl Katherine's ex boyfriend dumped
her for. Okay, it's very convoluted, yes, but basically she

(30:23):
wants Sebastian to help her get revenge Sebastian has different plans, though,
including instead to seduce the virginal daughter of the Headmaster,
a Net, played by Witherspoon.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
So they make a bet.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
If Sebastian fails at seducing a Net, Catherine gets his
very fancy Jaguar cars a specific model. If he succeeds,
he gets to sleep at the only person he's failed
to have sex with after he set his eyes on them, Catherine.
What follows is a mass of debauchery and vengeance. Sebastian
actually falls in love with an Nette. Of course, he

(30:56):
wins the bet, but no longer desires to have any
sex with Katherine and Katherin, and he's mad at this.
She manipulates him into leaving a net. Ultimately he dies
and he gets revenged posthumously against Catherine.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
I was watching this like, wait a.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Minute, but I did want to include this quote from
Sarah Michelle Geller's character Catherine. And this is when he's
kind of like questioning how she behaves. She says, eat me, Sebastian.
It's all right for guys like you in court to everyone,
but when I do it, I get dumped for innocent
little twits like cecial. God forbid, I exude confidence and

(31:34):
enjoy sex. Do you think I relish the fact that
I have to act like Mary Sunshine twenty four to
seven so I can be considered a lady. I'm the
marsha fing Brady of the Upper east Side, and sometimes
I want to kill myself.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
What a film.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
It was very up and coming, rebellious film.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
I can see if I had been at the Not
that I'm didn't like it or anything.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
It was enjoyable, but if I'd been at the right age,
I would have been WHOA look at this was? I think?

Speaker 5 (32:01):
Also, just to remind Reese and the sales character Cela
Blair get their vengeance.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
They are rude.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
The whole thing is like everybody gets revenge and then
might get like revenged over, like.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Right, Like it's a double women all the things, all
the things except Forese drives away with the actual roys.
Yeah a jaguar, Yeah, she drives away jaguar. Who knows,
but she's you know, loving it with the glasses and all.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:28):
So Chicago, the nineteen twenties musical that has been made
in two movies, the two thousand and two Best Picture
winner and Broadway Shows, the second longest running show in history,
is a story rife with female revenge. Bel m Kelly
kills her husband for cheating on her with her sister,
and Roxy Heart kills her lover for attempting to break
it off between them and lying to her about being
able to make her famous. Both are sent to gael

(32:50):
where they meet several other women in there for killing
women who did them.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Wrong, resulting in my favorite song, cell Black Tango, he
had it coming.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
Yeah, my favorite song when You're Good to Mama, which,
by the way, the viral video going around with Florence
Puge doing a great rendition of that.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Somebody saying at our holiday Kirioke party here there were
other things happening, but someone's saying, oh really, yes.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
It wasn't me.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
It was not either, but I do somebody did.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Then there's John Tucker Mess Die, which is a twenty
sixteen comedy film directed by Betty Thomas with the tagline
don't get mad, Get Everything.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
The plot revolves.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Around three young women who discover their high school basketball
star boyfriend, John Tucker, is dating all three of them
at once, promising each they are the one, and they
work together along with a fourth person to get revenge.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
Yeah. So in twenty eleven twenty fifteen show Revenge Haha
on ABC starring Emily Van Camp possibly being.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
The reboot this year with the Latin X lead.

Speaker 5 (33:46):
That could be cool. Inspired by Alexander Dumas's novel The
Count of Monte Cristo, which is a fantastic novel.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
And we finally arrive at the thing I teased at at.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
The opening, So one of the original cliffhangers. Okay, I'm
so happy about this. I finally know who shot j R.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
I forgot that was You told me that you didn't know.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
I had no idea.

Speaker 5 (34:09):
Wait what, and then I have to remember how young
you are in comparison to the shows.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Okay, So the reason I know about this at all
is because when I was in school, we used to
do this thing, or you would say who you shot JR?

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Right the finger game?

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, exactly, while moving from knuckle to knuckle with each word.
I really don't know the point of it, Like, I
don't remember how you won or what you learned from that,
but I remember doing.

Speaker 5 (34:31):
It as an Okay, all.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Right, that's what it's supposed to do.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
I don't think that's what happened. We really didn't know.
No one knew what we were doing it. I always
thought had something to do with JFKA. I don't know why, okay,
but I now know. It's from an eighties television show
called Dallas And and it was this repugnant fellow named
j R. The third season finale ended with him getting

(34:58):
shot twice by missus serious assailant. For eight months, people
waited and were besieged by an incredibly effective marketing campaign.
Since he was such a jerk, everyone had a motive
like anyone could have been the killer. There were t
shirts that read who shot JR? Or I shot JR.
There were contest to guess who it was. During the

(35:20):
nineteen eighty US presidential campaign, Republicans handed out buttons that
read a Democrat shot JR. Candidate Jimmy Carter even joked
that if only he knew who shot JR, he'd have
no problem financing his campaign. The actor who played JR
received an offer of a one hundred thousand pound vacation
pounded in the UK monetary unit if he'd reveal the shooter,

(35:43):
but the actor claimed and the actors knew all the
principal actors filmed the scene where they killed him to
keep the mystery up you could place bets on it,
and so finally on the episode Who Done It?

Speaker 4 (35:56):
It was called Who Done It?

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Aired in November nineteen eighty, revealing the It was the
highest rated television show in history, drawing in eighty three
million viewers domestically and more than three hundred and fifty
million internationally. Turkish parliament even famously ended a session early
so the legislators could go home.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
And find out who Did It?

Speaker 5 (36:17):
Well.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
At the same time, a fundamentalist group in the same
country called for the quote elimination of Dallas anyway, Who
did It? Kristin Shepherd played by Mary Crosby Jr's sister
in law, mistress and alleged mother of his child, So
female revenge now. This is one of the first great
television cliphangers. It also sometimes gets credit for helping CNN

(36:38):
gay momentum because they launched that same year. SNL perioded
it on an episode sometimes called Who Shot cr? CR
being cast member Charles Rockett, and the episode provided cast
members with skits for how they'd kill CR. And at
the end of the episode he had lived I'd like to.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
Know who did it?

Speaker 3 (36:57):
A line that got him fired, And there was, of
course the Simpsons parody who shot mister Burns?

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Apparently Jr.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Was shot again in the twenty twelve sequel or continuation.
I don't know, did not recover this time? Okay, actually gone?

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I forgot that it was revamped.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Yeah, like is.

Speaker 5 (37:14):
It still going?

Speaker 3 (37:14):
I think it might be really Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
Well I learned a lot. I learned a lot.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
So that's that's a good overview of that category. But
we have a couple more categories we wanted to touch on.
But first we have one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor.

(37:45):
So another category we wanted to talk about. It's something
you kind of see in some of these films, the
system getting revenge against the system. So one example of
this is Zora Neil Hurston's short story Sweat, in which
allows her drunk, abusive, cheating husband, who thoughtlessly spends all
of her hard earned money, to walk in a path

(38:06):
of a snake that kills him and he had originally
planned that snake for her. She passively watches him die
as the sun rises, ignoring his cries for help.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
So another good movie Nine to five, which I was
thinking about after we watched First Wives Club, thinking maybe
we should have watched it as well.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
I did watch it not.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
Too long ago, you did, I did not go.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
Yes, I did watch it a long time ago, and
I was like, my gosh, I don't know if this
could be remade. There's so many problematic issues to this.
But a nineteen eighty film about three women Lily Tomlin,
Dolly Parton, and Jane Fonda, who plot revenge against their
male boss who spreads lies about having sex with one
of them, Dolly Parton, and beat one of them out
for a promotion, Lily Tomlin, who she deserved it obviously,

(38:47):
and then also Jane Fonda comes in, who is the
new worker, trying to figure out how everything's going on.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
What's happening there.

Speaker 5 (38:54):
So while they have him trapped in a dog harness,
they put in place all sorts of feminist policy hours, childcare,
and equal pay. I believe they bring back one of
the receptionists that he fires during that time. So when
at the end they release the boss who actually takes
claim for doing all of these policies, which yeah, yeah,

(39:16):
and so they then he gets a promotion that actually
sends him to a completely different place, so they kind
of push him out, but he gets a promotion. Yeah,
but with that his superior who figures that all out,
that everything actually works and it increases productivity. He keeps
all of that in place, except for the equal pay bit.
But that's kind of the revenge portion or the justice

(39:38):
vengeful portion is they got to keep the policies in
place while they got rid of him. He still got
the glory. But yeah, you know, nineteen eighties has to
be that way, right.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
I guess so.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
And I actually watched this film for the first time
two days ago.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Ridley Scott's nineteen ninety one Thelma and Louise.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Written by Callie Corey and starring and Srandon and Gena Davis.
When this movie first debuted, it was accused of negatively
portraying men all.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Yeah, which it really doesn't.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah, most of the male characters are kind of like,
oh yeah, you sympathize with them. In twenty sixteen, this
movie was named for Preservation to the National Film Registry
by the US Library of Congress for being quote culturally, historically,
are esthetically significant. And it's about two best friends who
go on a weekend vacation together kind of goes a
little awry.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
After a man.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Attempts to rape Thelma, Louise finds them and threatens him
with a gun, ultimately shooting him and forcing the pair
to flee. After discussing their options, they decide that the
authorities won't believe them, and so they decide let's.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
Go to Mexico.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
It turns out Louise was raped years earlier in Texas,
and she is insistent that they avoid going through that state.
The FBI closes in, and after committing a series of
crimes that they decide to quote keep going and drive
off a cliff rather than go to jail. They can't
beat the system, so they take each other's hands and
drive over the Grand Canyon. And I when I was

(41:11):
watching this, which I really enjoyed it, it made me
Movies like that always make me think of The Awakening,
which I had to read like three times in high school. Yeah,
where you get you get like a taste Kate Japan. Yeah,
and you can't go back, like, oh, once you taste freedom, Yeah,
it's so overrange.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Yeah, you just can't go back.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
And then kind of in a different track is first
Wivestuff Yes, which is the nineteen ninety six movie directed
by he willis based on the Olivia Goldsmith novel about
women getting revenge on their ex husbands after the men
ditch them for the younger models. You can see our
whole episode we did on it for more about.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
That one as well, so you may have also seen
our live feed on that one.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
It was fun. It was fun.

Speaker 5 (41:53):
Then we have another Tarantino movie which came out in
two thousand and seven, death Proof, and I will say
it was one of my favorite movies. Submit My Mike,
played by Kurt Russell, seems like a totally nice guy,
but in reality takes pleasure in tormenting women with this
indestructible car. Is told in two parts. In the first
part that meant Mike kills four women with his car.

(42:13):
By the way, the character of Jungle Julia is played
by Sidney Poitier's daughter Sidney Poitier, which the sheriff suspects
is because of a sexual nature when he kills these women.
The film seemingly restarts with a similar setup. Three women
in the film industry, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Rosario Dawson, and
Tracy Toms and they're all followed by step meant Mike

(42:35):
as they pick up Zoe real life stunt woman Zoe Bells,
whom a Thurman stunt double and kill Bill and has
been on several more of Tarantino's movies after the fact
as an actress and not just a stunt person. So
he convinces them to try out a stunt car, which
is a reference to all the old school chase movies.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Muscle muscle cars.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
But as she's performing on Writing on the Hood, Mike
slay into them. A skirmish follows with a chase with
Mike getting away, but the women decide to kill him
and they do.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
I think it has some.

Speaker 5 (43:07):
Of the best lines, over the top ridiculous lines. It
does also kind of become problem not kind of. It
does become problematic as the main driver is a black woman,
Tracy Toms, who kind of goes over the top with
the whole expectation type of idea of being an angry,
violent black woman. So that's problematic in himself, which we
can talk about that as an issue in Tarantino and

(43:30):
his movies and thinking that he has permission.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
To elaborate on that as a white man. But whatever.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
This again was produced by Weinstein's and also just as
a reminder, Death Proof was actually a part of a
double feature with the Planet Terror done by Michael Rodriguez.
Rose mcgallan was in both of those movies, and so
you see kind of a culmination of ugh.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Well yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
And I watched this as part of leading up to
this as well, and it was weird because Kurt Russell's
whole thing his car's death through because as long as
he's in the driver's see, as long as his power,
he can't be killed, right, And he first person he
kills is Rose McGowan, who's just like, Okay, you know,
I just need to write home.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
And it's hard not to see parallels, like real life.

Speaker 5 (44:16):
Parallel, especially because she is the woman who kind of
tells them something's wrong, things are happening, something's wrong. Yeah,
And then I will say it took me a couple
of watches because of the first half of the movie
before I really like I was like, oh, I actually
do like this movie, but it's so grotesque that beginning part,
and it's so overtly sexist. But then you have that
second half with Zoe Bell and her and her bad ass.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Ray I mean, she is amazing.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
If you actually ever watch just like snippets of her
doing all these amazing, amazing stunts, it's phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
Just oh, but I also appreciate the stark difference in
Russell's character in the two halves, the beginning and to
the end of what he's begging and crying like a
little child because he actually gets injured. Yeah, I mean
it is kind of an interesting twist. I will say that.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
I really appreciate how it's one of the few revenge
films for me where it just is like, you know what,
we're not really going to try to make sense.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
We're just going to lean into the fantasy aspect of this.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
And I love when Zoe's fine they think she might
be hurt, she popped up, She's totally fine and she's like,
you want to kill that guy and like, okay, I'll
kill yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
And they do have Rosario Dawson as being the mama character,
so they definitely have those tropes in there as well.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, and then okay, this is the last one I watched.
Two thousand and five is Hard Candy, starring very young
Ellen Page as a young woman who hunts pedophiles so
it starts with kind of like a text exchange, like
a chattering exchange, and she's playing all like, oh yeah,
so sweet, and gets up to this guy's place. Then

(45:48):
she rufi's him, tortures him. Oh it's it's a.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Lot, it's a lot.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
I do think that one of the things about this film,
and it is purposeful, is you have doubt about who
is the good guy versus the bad guy, or the
good person versus the bad person, because you have doubts
about who's telling the truth right, and going back and
forth and back and forth and back and forth, and
then you know, it reveals itself slowly. I will say,
many of men have told me how awful this movie

(46:16):
is and how they would never watch it and never
want to see it again nevere and I was like,
what happens? I don't understand, why is it so bad?
But that one scene where he's on the table is
what has gotten all of them, which I find hilarious
to a point. I'm like, do you not see all
of these awful things that happened to women? That is
literally the plot, the beginning, the catalyst, and that was

(46:40):
the most I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not great, No,
but it's definitely not the worst thing that I've seen
in the movie.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Yeah, it was tense. I was very on edge. That's
the last thing I watched before.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
No wonder you looked at me with surprise, and then
they're just Vengeance.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
Yes, Vengeance two thousand and five, Chan Park will This
is the third and final entry into the Vengeance trilogy,
which is a three obviously three part series trilogy. And
if All is a woman wrongly convicted of murdering a
child and after she does her time in jail and
is released, she finds it real killer and gets her
revenge again.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
This is another Korean thriller.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
I will say I've not seen this one mainly because
I wanted to start with the first one, which I
don't think they actually aligned it anyway, but I still
wanted to do it that way. But the first one, again,
these are really intimate, intense movies, and I'm like, I
don't know if I can do this one right now,
which again, I cannot believe you watched all of these
back to back to back to back.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
I'm going home and I'm like just gonna.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Even watch How to Train a Dragon, aren't you.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Or Harry Potter, right, I'll do what I have to do.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
And then there's CBS is Why Women Kill from creator
Mark Cherry, which tracks the revenge of three women played
by Jennifer Goodwin, Lucy Lou and Kirby Howell Baptiste from
three different decades living in the same house whose husbands
I think all of their husbands cheated on them.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
And then Handmaid's Tale maybe.

Speaker 5 (48:04):
Maybe I think it's like, yeah, I guess system, Yeah, System,
and I would say Foxy Brown. I don't want to
put too much attention to it because it's definitely part
of the nineteen seventies era of blaxploitation films that occurred,
and there was a lot of problematic issues. At one point,
you want to celebrate because it's a strong black woman
who gets to be the lead and who gets her vengeance,

(48:24):
but at the same time, the stereotype of are being
angry as well as violent, as well as a prostitute.
All of these things kind of have this back and forth.
Pam Greer, though, is a force, so you know, people
kind of looked up to that as well.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
So this kind of this fine line.

Speaker 5 (48:41):
But it is a tale of a girlfriend avenging the
death of her cop boyfriend, so I think it is
something to know about as well.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
There are so many There are so many, we can
keep going, going and going. We do you want to
one more small category? Well, I guess one and a
half is supernatural. There are super naw natural kind of
vengeance stories. So many of them are about adolescents. My
theory again that we're so afraid of female sexuality, especially

(49:09):
in young women.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Wuthering Heights could be an example of this.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I saw it in a lot of things, Heathcliff Revenge
on Henley and Catherine, but it's not really I mean,
it's been a long time since I've read that book.
I don't know a lot of people included it, so
I thought i'd throw it in there.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, I guess I didn't think about that one.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
Carrie in nineteen seventy six Brian de Palmer film based
on the novel by Stephen Keane classic teenage body adolescents,
vengeance horror periods.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (49:36):
Carrie uses her abilities to get revenge on her very religious,
over the top strict mother and on the classmates who
publicly make fun of her by dumping pig's blood on her.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Head at prom.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
Yeah, causing this whole rift of things to happen because
she is teased. We're being awkward and over the top strange.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Yes, and also can Carrie too, which I have seen.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
I have not seen that.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Well.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
I don't know what's worth it.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
But the craft, the craft.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
This one's kind of tricky.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
And this is another one we'll probably eventually do a
whole oh yeah, oh yeah. But in brief new Girl
Sarah Bailey becomes friends with rumored witches and definite outcast. Yeah,
it turns out they actually are whiches, and through a
series of events, they cast revenge spells and beauty cells,
all kinds of spells on people who have done them
wrong or on themselves to make themselves prettier. But of

(50:25):
course the spells have negative side effects, surprise, surprise, and
eventually the women for the most part, turn against each
other kind of get revenge on each other.

Speaker 5 (50:33):
Right, And we will be watching that one for sure.
I think it will remain include like hocus Pocus and
oh which is of Eastwick? I think those are definitely
things that we will have to do well. Shutter A
two thousand and eight. Most of YACKI Ogi American remake
of Time movie. In the movie, newlyweds Ben and Jane
moved to Tokyo, so Ben, played by Joshua Jackson, can

(50:54):
pursue a career in photography. Side note, why are all
these horror movies in Japan? Well, talk about.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
The the American remakes are always in Japan. Yeah, kind
of funny.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
Why While out driving, Jane accidentally hits a woman in
the middle of the road, but shaker, the body disappears.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Photos start to show up with mysterious lights, spirit photography
quote unquote.

Speaker 5 (51:13):
Jane starts to have visions and feels a presence hanging
over her. Turns out that Ben had a photograph his
friends raping her and doing nothing to stop it, and
the ghost was hanging on Ben's shoulder, which actually also
it was because he.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Was having an affair with her.

Speaker 5 (51:25):
She wanted to stay with him, and this was his
way of getting her away from him.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Right, So when she hit the woman in the beginning,
it was already the ghost, right right, And then we've
discussed Jennifer's body before. This is a two thousand and
nine movie directed by Karen Kusama, written by Diabolo Cody
and starting Megan Fox as the titular character who was
offered up as a verd and sacrifice in a Satanic ritual.
Also just watched this for the first time and read

(51:49):
so much about it.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
See, I'm really suy you didn't tell me about that
because I wanted to watch this one with you. I
remember talking to you about this, as you know, it's
supposed to be funny trope and dah da da dah.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Oh my god, I'm really sad I missed out.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
On I learned so much because right now it's going
through kind of a like resurgence.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
Oh is it?

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yes, and they're saying because the time is right is
before it's time. But also the marketing campaign they tried
to convince Megan Fox to like start a porn site.
They just marketed it all wrong. Yeah, it's really gross.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
I don't remember that.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
I learned a lot.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
But anyway, she wasn't a virgin Megan Fox's character, so
she becomes possessed instead permanently and goes on a killing spree,
killing dudes. It doesn't really sound like a revenge fantasy
at first, but some have interpreted as Jennifer's body getting
revenge on those who abused her that the sacrificing of
a young woman being sacrificed by a minute altar is

(52:38):
too reminiscent of Harvey Weinstein the system that allowed for
it to happen.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
And also at the.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
End, her friend gets revenge on the band, right she
does Adam Brody.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
Adam Brody because he's also going to be in the
movie we just talked about with Kerry Mulligan.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
He's one of the nice.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Guys that's right then, ready or not where he's kind
of like actually a nice guy.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Oh really, I didn't see that one.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Oh man. And then we're not going to go into
this one.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
But I was thinking about some metaphorical revenge movies we're
if you're talking about like female vengeance as seen through
climate change or Mother Earth?

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Right this.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
I remember when I saw mother exclamation point and everyone
was like, what is it a metaphor for?

Speaker 4 (53:20):
And some people thought it was Mother Earth?

Speaker 3 (53:21):
Okay, yeah, yeah, But that's a lot of our That.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Is a lot.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
That's a lot, that's a whole.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
But that brings us to the end of this episode.
If you if we missed any if you want to
share any.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
So many oh yeah we did, so you should tell
us your favorite exactly.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Send your favorites to our email Stuff Media mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find us on Twitter, app,
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram at stuff I've Never
Told You.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard, hekay, thanks, and.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
Thanks to you for listening.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Step moom Never Told You his production of iHeart Radios
how stuff Works.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.