May 2, 2025 • 30 mins
In this classic episode, the SMNTY team announces the mysterious project we've been working on (spoiler alert, it's a book), while discussing the importance of feminist works and why it is especially critical to pay attention to the recent wave of book bans.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is and Smitha. I'm welcome to Stuff I
Never Told You, Production of My Heart Radio. And today
we're bringing back one that's gonna feel like a bit
of a time capsule. And I have to admit I
have just done my taxes and it was a time
(00:27):
capsule because I thought this happened last year, but it
did not our book. We're talking about our book in
this episode. I was put in my taxes and everything
and I looked at it. I was like, oh no,
that was a couple of years ago. Yes, I'm glad
I got it. But anyway, so some of it is
a little dated. It's been out for a while, but
(00:49):
I do think it's important because in it we talk
about the importance of a feminist works and book bands
and all of the stuff that Unfortunately it is even
more relevant than when we were talking about it then.
So I wanted to bring it back and please enjoy
(01:11):
this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and
welcome to Stefan Never Told You Protection of iHeartRadio. And
(01:31):
today we have a very special edition of a book
club for you. It's going to be a bit of
a discussion around the importance of feminist books, and also
why we should be paying attention to all of the
book banning efforts going on right now. But it's also
special because we have a very important announcement. We have
(01:53):
been hinting at it, we have been alluding to it,
and it's finally time. Is it is. Samantha and I
wrote a book, wrote a damn book. We did. It's
hard to believe. Honestly, it really really is. We did it.
(02:15):
It was a whirlwind, and you'll hear more about the
process of writing it in our upcoming Monday Mini But yes,
the book is called Stuff I've Never told You, The
Feminist Past, Present and Future. It comes out on August
twenty ninth.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Of twenty twenty three of twenty Yes, good dead that part,
very good call that you never know August twenty ninth
of twenty twenty three, and you can pre order it
at stuff you Should Read books dot com.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You can also find the link on our social media channels.
So yes, yes, go do it. It was a very
daunting process, as writing any book is, but also writing
any book about femine. Honestly, things changed so quickly, literally,
chapters we wrote or changing as we were writing them.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, because we started the whole thing twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh my god, Oh yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, so we had to keep changing it throughout, but
of course we had a lot of people helping, yeah,
on this journey. But yeah, it does feel like there's
so much outdated that we kept going, can we fix this?
Can we fix it?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Can we go back and add this in there? Yeah?
And it is. It's one of those things where it
reminds me of how my mom feels about when she
cooks things, where she's always nitpicking her own cooking. But
I'm like, it tastes really good. It's hard for me
to look at this objectively, but there are some really
cool parts I love about it. One is we were
(03:51):
lucky enough. Samantha had this idea like, let's add in
this graphic novel elements because we love that kind of stuff,
and we were lucky to work with a local illustrator
named Helen Choi, and Helen turned in our kind of
rambling ideas into beautiful art.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I would say it's probably one of my favorite parts
to the book, having her doing all the wonderful illustrations
of some of the stories that we thought were important,
and then having some of the best like graphics for again,
parts of the things that we couldn't say but wanted
to show. So she did a wonderful job. And it's
so so fun.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yes it is. It's really really fun. It was a
fun collaborating process, which we will talk about more in
our Monday mini. We were also lucky enough to work
with Jane Franson, who was kind of our editor ghost writer,
basically the person who made sure we got stuff done.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I'd like, I think we came in with an idea
that we would have a ghost writer, and then she
just ended up being our editor and then our manager,
kind of our agent. She just became everything a representative
and advocate for us. Not only would she go through
everything we wrote and be like, okay, we're going to
change this and this and this and make us sound
very smart, thank you very much, but she really wasn't
(05:10):
in between for being a translator, yes, between us in
the book world, because there's so many things that we
don't know in that field, and she was just a
pro holding our hands the entire time and making sure
that we were equipped to move forward.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yes, because we did not know what we were doing, like
not at all full transparency. We did not know. We
would ask the most I assume, basic questions, but she
was so kind and so yes helpful, and there would
literally be times where one of us or both of
us are having a panic attack and she would like
talk us down.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, and she did like even after we were done
trying to write acknowledgments my bio, I would send her
my clip.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I was like, what do you think of this?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
She would be like, yes, this is good, but let's
add this part. But she would The entire thing was
so less painful. Yes because of her.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yes. Yes. So look out for our Monday mini where
we talk more about that. Definitely check out you can
see an excert on that website. I read stuff you
should read books dot com and they chose we also
have Another idea of Samantha's was that there would be
these kind of like fictional women interludes. Of course, Princess
(06:27):
Leah's in there, but they chose the last of us
when I'm assuming because of the current interest to show
as an excert. So go check it out and you
can see some of the illustrations and they're really really
beautiful and amazing, and so we're happy to share it
with you. Now we don't have to be like coy
about it anymore. And we'll probably we'll be talking about
(06:49):
it more, we'll be mentioning it more. There might even
be some like hangouts virtual or in real life. Who knows,
who knows what? Well hell yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But
like we said, it is a bit daunting task. And
one of the things we wanted to talk about in
this is the importance of feminist books and feminism in books.
(07:11):
And I was looking it up and there seemed to
be some very basic things that kept coming up, and
one was defying patriarchal stereotypes. And that was in particular,
like even like in children's books or in fictional books,
of the importance of younger people to see something that
(07:31):
is not what you know, like these kind of traditional
patriarchal stereotypes that we normally get fed at a young age,
and why that's so important, and there is a lot
of research and science behind that. There's also just kind
of opening up your mind, both of young folks but
of older folks, and you and I have talked about that.
Of basically, for me, it was college, and there's been
(07:54):
some a little bit earlier than that, but college was
the big period where I started reading these materials or
consuming these materials, and it really changed how I looked
at the world and made me challenge how I looked
at the world, which is hugely important. Also, they provide
context and education. So many of the books we've focused
(08:18):
on in these book clubs have done that, and they've
done it so graciously when they honestly don't have to
be so gracious, but because it's true, like if you're
raised in one environment, it's so helpful to find a
book like this that's like, here's why you need to
start thinking about this or questioning this, or are those
(08:39):
kinds of things. It's just hugely important, and it's like everywhere.
I still love that. We've talked about topics ranging from
intersexual environmentalism to just basic like ableism or just basic
feminism and how it impacts every thing and that can
(09:01):
help shape how we view the world we live in.
The structures around us, can give you the tools to
combat oppression, to make society better, to recognize the toxic
systems and mindsets you've been raised in. And yeah, this
is sort of it's been very helpful to learn for me,
like how everything is intersectional, how you can't just separate
out these different threads that they all relate. And there
(09:25):
is so much to talk about when it comes to feminism,
it touches everything. And that was one of the big
struggles we had with this book. Well, so how do
we choose what to talk about and what not to
talk about? And it's just so so, so so much.
But I do think it's very very valuable. I think
that it has been. I think that I love when
(09:46):
we do a book club and they talk about another
book that they read that influenced them. Kind of seeing
all the impact of these books on how people think
and what they write about or what they pursue and
starting these conversations that are so so so important. And
as we talked about when we kind of did our
wrap up of twenty twenty two, we were talking about
(10:08):
book club, so many of these books that we've read
on here have just kind of opened another pathway in
my brain for thinking about something differently, or giving it
more context, or putting into words what I couldn't quite
put into words. And it's just it's so powerful that
kind of exchanging, especially if it's a an experience you
(10:29):
don't know too much about. It's just it really really
can open you up and make you think about things
differently in a way that is more conducive to.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
A better world, I would hope.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I think something that we have seen in many of
the books is that people are really giving themselves and
are being vulnerable within these books. And it's a privilege
to be a part of that just by reading what
has been published. When we talk about Bill Hooks or
any of the essays, that they really put it all
the work so much beforehand that coming back to it
(11:21):
and rediscovering it even though it's been around, has been
so important. And that's why when things are written down,
why we find it so important that we continue to
read it, because it is it doesn't go away, thank God.
And it may take a little while for us to
find again or to discover again, but it does. And
no matter as we're about to talk about, no matter
(11:41):
how people might push back, it can't go away, thank goodness.
And that's one of the things that we see is
that when we take something and are able to really
hone in on what it's trying to teach us, that
how valuable and how powerful those tools are are. And
I find it encouraging that we are able to access
(12:03):
that today.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Me too, Me too. And I think, like I said,
there's just so much you can find such niche things.
It's it's amazing and I love it. But it's important.
It is important, And like you said, this is even
a bigger deal right now given the wave of book
banning that we're seeing, especially around gender identity and LGBTQ
(12:27):
plus issues under the guys that these books are quote
sexually explicit, and race activism and feminist books are targeted
to as well as sex ed and abortion. I just
saw the day in Florida. They're trying to make it
so you can't talk the administration to people who are
a certain age, which is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
But I did see that lots of people in Florida
are doing a reading. So I think it's becoming a
new form of protest and I love it.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Me too, Me too. Yeah, there's been there's been a
couple of day has been pushed back in protest, and
we'll talk about that a little about the end. But
the US and people in general have a long history
of censorship and book banning, especially around religion, enslafement, and racism.
Jencrow Ara South is a big one, and sex and gender,
including birth control and conscious sceptives. According to the National
(13:19):
Geographic Quote. By the nineteen twenties, Boston was so notorious
for banning books that authors intentionally printed their books there
and hopes that the inevitable ban would give them a
publicity boost elsewhere in the country. Uh, but yes, book
banning is seeing a very big surge right now. Almost
every state in the US has seen arized in the
(13:41):
banning of books in recent years.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Right as a fight. Let's go over some numbers. From
July twenty twenty one to June twenty twenty two, Pan
America's Index of school book Bans list two five hundred
and thirty two instances of individual books being banned, affecting
one six hundred and forty eight unique book title. The
one thousand, six hundred forty eight titles are by two
(14:04):
hundred and sixty one different authors, two hundred and ninety illustrators,
and eighteen translators, impacting the literary, scholarly, and creative work
of one thousand, five hundred and fifty three people, all
together with other books that haven't been reported on top
of the bands occurred in one hundred and thirty eight
school districts in thirty two states. These districts represent five
forty nine schools with a combined enrollment of nearly four
(14:27):
million students.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah. So this is all part of a big pan
American study that a lot of people are referencing right now,
and you should go check it out because it has
a lot of data. For one, you can look at
who what state s the most bands, Texas as the most,
followed by Florida. The report found that ninety six percent
of the bands did not follow the best practice guidelines
for book challenges outlined by the American Library Association and
(14:52):
the National Coalition against Censorship. Nearly half of the book
spanned are young adult books. Here's another quote from the study.
The vast majority of the books targeted by these groups
for removal feature LGBTQ plus characters or characters of color,
and or cover race and racism in American history, LGBTQ
plus identities, or sex education.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
All right, Yeah, again, just a reminder, it's not even
about that they talk about sex. It's just mentioning a
character that might be gay, queer, or anything. So from
GPB quote Cheryl Lewis Hudson, an author and publisher specializing
in children's books celebrating black culture and black history, said
(15:35):
that book bands are about power and that they are
nothing new. She said the trend of book bands is
not only censorship, but a rature of marginalized communities. So
there is a trend in an underlying pattern of white
supremacy really that is challenging the actual existence of people
of color in a democracy, and I think that's very obvious.
I'm not even trying to hide it now.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
No, no, no. There's also been an increase in something
called preemptive bands, removing books that might be banned before
they're even banned. So in one case in Tennessee, our
library removed one third of their books from their shelves
and anticipation of a state law on LGBTQ plus content
that didn't pass, So they were just anticipating it and
(16:15):
they removed the books anyway, and that didn't happen. There's
also silent bands, where books are removed, are not displayed
to avoid controversy, and are labeled. Sometimes are labeled as inappropriate,
either in online catalogs or physically, like with actual warning
stickers placed on the books.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Oh my gosh, I know in bookstores, I've seen people
turning books around that they don't like, and then they
will come right back behind them and turning them back.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's quite a back and forth.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Okay, So here's another quote from the pen America report.
There have also been efforts to keep books out of
the hands of children, even if they remain in circulation.
So one prominent example of such activity was the Hide
the Pride, an initiative Catholic Vote dot org in June
twenty twenty two. Catholic Vote encourage members to check out
books from the Pride twenty twenty two displays in children's
(17:07):
sections of public libraries and to take pictures of the
empty shelves.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yes, and there there is a difference between a book
challenge and a book ban. A lot of times book
ban is getting used for a lot to encompass a
lot more than what it traditionally means. There's also a
difference between that and being canceled, which comes up in
this conversation too. And who can challenge or ban a
(17:32):
book varies by locality, so it gets really really messy,
really really fast. The report also found that this what
we're seeing right now of banning books is largely the
work of organizations and groups, many of them that popped
up in twenty twenty one, notably after the twenty twenty
(17:53):
election and the insurrection and schools reopening, and some openly
push Christian nationalist values. It's also politics involved in a
lot of this, obviously, right.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
So here's another quote from GPB. Fifty groups at the state, national,
and local level with as many as three hundred chapters
highlight a role in at least half of the book
bands enacted across the country during the twenty twenty one
twenty two school year. Of those groups, seventy three percent
were formed in twenty twenty one, according to that report.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, and they have in some cases harrassed and threatened
librarians and teachers. They've called them pedophiles, they've called them groomers.
They've attempted to defund entire libraries. They've filed criminal charges.
Several states have laws about providing pornographic material, which is
often the case used against queer content in this context.
(18:45):
This is a major thing people get wrong because the
issue is often framed as worried parents asking for a
banning of books, which it sometimes is. Yeah, so there
is that, but Plenty of people speaking at these meetings
that you've seen about banning books don't have kids, or
their kids are adults. Many will openly admit that they
(19:07):
haven't even read the book in question, but they will
just google like a book with queer character, and then
that's it. These groups have spreadsheets that they just circulate
where try to get this book banned in your area.
One of the groups is recognized as an LGBTQ plus
hate group and claim that January sixth was quote clearly
a setup. Many have names like Moms for Liberty, and
(19:32):
the Moms for Liberty has two hundred branches. They are organized,
they are recognized. The SANTIS spoke at one of their
conferences about parental rights as it's called. They market themselves
as grassroots, but many have connections to wealthy Republicans and
are very much not grassroots. Here's a quote from a
(19:55):
transgender man named Chris Mall. People are scared because they
don't think l GPTQ people should exist. They don't want
their own children to be LGBTQ, and they feel if
they can limit access to these books and materials, then
their children won't be that way, which is simply not true.
And it's heartbreaking and disgusting.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Which is hilarious because yeah, this is historical.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We have historical evidence. This does not work.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
That's not a thing. And because you're pushing back on
it so hard, you're about to get a flip. Like
the only hope that I feel like we have when
we talk about these subjects. And there's a lot of
bad news happening here all over the country. Georgia just
got some today and I'm very much in a flunk.
But the fact that I know with these pushes, oftentimes
(20:43):
the flip happens, and that means it's going to be
a revolution type of thing, and it's to be glorious
to see. I feel like every time. It may take
ten years, but it will come back and I'm excited
to see that part.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, oh yeah, me too. And then I didn't really
go into it too much. But Florida is like a
big focal point of this. It is not by any
means the only state doing this, but that they're like
that don't the so called don't say gay law. One
of the things we've seen in its wake is confusion
(21:16):
of like teachers not knowing what to do. They've been
told to quote air on the side of caution. And
you know, while DeSantis and his supporters will say, well,
it's just I think grade grade three and below, but
it also has age appropriate in there, which means that
any parent at any time could challenge a teacher and
(21:40):
could get in big trouble or a librarian. And we've
seen those videos of empty shelves, and you know, there's
been some back and forth about some of them not
being true, but some of them are. Uh, and so
that's that's a heartbreaking. That's like students being deprived of
(22:01):
all of the material. And then, if you're curious, this
was more than I really wanted to break down in this,
but I was interested in it. So this whole parental
rights argument isn't new either, but it is also in
juxtaposition of the First minute rights of students. And there
have been several Supreme Court cases affirming the rights of students.
(22:23):
And here's the quote from one of them. Local school
boards may not remove books from school libraries simply because
they dislike the ideas contained in those books. Now, unfortunately,
our current Supreme Court kind of sucks, so who knows, right.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
That might be turned over again. Yeah, it's quite interesting
because again with the news, there's a lot of anti
trans bills and it's targeted at parents and young children.
Supposedly we always targeted at trans people in general, but
the language is talking about children to the fact that
they're also going after medical professionals who may assist. But
(22:57):
I find that again ironic about parental rights. But yet
we take away parental rights right But again once again
so library and Sam Helmick said, can we acknowledge that
this will have a chilling effect? And when you tell
me that books about myself as an asexual, non binary person,
who didn't have those books in the libraries when I
(23:19):
was a kid to pick up and flip through, but
now publishing has caught up with me and I can
see representation of me. Those will be behind the desk,
and that's not supposed to make me feel less welcome,
less seen, and less represented in my library. And there's
so much again the whole level, because we're not even
tackling critical race theory, which is a part of this
(23:39):
conversation too. They want to take anything out that has
a conversation about race because they don't know what critical
race theory is. Again, they also obviously can't tell what
queer porn is versus just a story about a queer person.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, yeah, which is highly offensive because then the the
understanding is that all queer people are just pornographic in nature.
I mean, you do you, but that's quite an assumption
to make. So yeah, this has been kind of grand.
(24:25):
There are some positives though. Polls have found that Americans
across the political spectrum do not approve of book bands,
and there have long been efforts to push back. They
are happening now, They've been happening for a long time.
My high school had a Banned Books Week. There's a
band book Week in September, and we would celebrate it
in my high school. Although I bet that would not
fly now, I bet that would not fly, But I
(24:47):
loved it. It was great because so many books that
are banned are like books that we loved. It's like
that you don't know why they're banned anyway. Students have
been fighting b well, in the face of like jeering
and taunting from adults. Adults, the librarians and teachers and
(25:09):
parents are fighting back. You can find a lot of
inspirational stories about it. Also heartbreaking, but inspirational. It's heartbreaking
what they had to go through, and they have seen
some successes. So for example, quote round Rock Black Parents
Association successfully campaigned for the book Stamped for Kids, Racism,
Anti Racism and You, A History of Racism in the
US by the black authors Jason Reynolds and Ebram X
(25:30):
Kendy to remain on the shelves after it faced a ban.
Hundreds of parents and anti censorship activists campaigned in New
Jersey to keep a series of books addressing LGBTQ plus experiences,
including Gender Queer by Mayacobabe and A Long Boy by
Jonathan Ivison in school libraries. And by the way, Gender
Queer is the most banned book in America right now.
(25:52):
So there is good news, but we have to keep
fighting because the other a lot of the things I read,
we're saying, like we a lot of people don't realize
how organized this like banning book effort is. That it's
not just like a random parent, Like it's an organization
that is targeting and finding support. So that's important to know,
(26:14):
Like it is not just like a parent that it
has suddenly been like, oh, I don't think my kid
should be reading this. There are spreadsheets and like sign
up sheets and make sure you're at this meeting.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Well, I mean that goes to say about all the
things that we're seeing right now, because across the board,
the majority of people are in support of the things
that are being banned. Whether it's abortion, whether it's career rights,
and whether it's book bands, whether there it's critical race theory,
the majority of people, according to the polls, are actually
in support of it or we just really don't care
enough to do this. Literally like sixty percent if not
(26:48):
higher for all of these things. So we know is
an organized few. And that's the scary part. And again,
this is what we're watching. I don't want to compare
it to all things, but when it comes to fascism,
there is is a playbook, and it seems to be
that we are following this playbook.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Oh yeah, I mean, anytime like censorship and book banning,
you need to keep an eye on it. It's not
a good thing. Like controlling power and education like that
is very very concerning. And yeah, like like we've said,
many of the amazing books we've talked about in this
segment have been banned. I know, fun Home for Me
(27:27):
comes to mind. We talked about it in that episode,
and it is it's harmful for people to lose access
to these amazing works and you know, seeing yourself, especially
as a young person, Like it's so important when you're
going through this kind of tumultuous time try and figure
out who you are. And then they're removing books. I mean,
what are you supposed to take from that?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And just as a reminder, and I love it. Social
media is an amazing platform for us to be reminded
that there are more of us than them.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yes, yes there are, there absolutely are, and it does matter,
like we said, like the power of seeing yourself, of
challenging white supremacy, of challenging peric jerch. You're just like
like for me, like coming from a small town and
getting this material and having like a real awakening sounds
(28:18):
kind of a nerdy, but like you know, like, oh,
there's so much more that I wasn't getting that I
was being told and that was harmful to me and
to everyone around me to like all of those things.
Like it's so important that we have access to these things.
So so, if if any of you have been involved
in these efforts to fight back against book banning, we
(28:41):
would love, love, love for you to let us know.
You can certainly see our upcoming episode on the writing process.
I did have a thought of like a wonderful we'll
get banned that. The only thing is, I feel like
you have to have a certain level of popularity to
be banned, right, so we'll see.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
You made if we get banned, Like if this is
still going, I will fill this pride of knowing that
we got banned.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
We made somebody angry enough, not I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Ine people angry, just why talking about Stacey Abrams.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
So let us go that's true. It's true. Well, if
you want to check out this book that might make
people very angry and get banned, Yes, it is going
on sale August twenty ninth. You can pre order at
stuff you Should read books dot com. You can see
an excerpt from it, you can see the beautiful art
by Helen Joy and on our There will be announcements
(29:35):
on our social media and links that you can click
on in the bio. So thank you, thank you, thank
you for your support, your continued support, and as always,
if you have any suggestions for books we should be
doing on this segment, please let us know. You can
email us at Stephanie and Mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told.
(29:57):
You can also find us on YouTube. Thanks is always too,
our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
contributor Joey.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Thank you, comes Amida, Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And thanks to you for listening. Stefan never told you
the protection of my heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my Heart Radio, check out the heart Radio Apple podcasts.
Where have you listen to your favorite ships?
Hey, this is and Smitha. I'm welcome to Stuff I
Never Told You, Production of My Heart Radio. And today
we're bringing back one that's gonna feel like a bit
of a time capsule. And I have to admit I
have just done my taxes and it was a time
(00:27):
capsule because I thought this happened last year, but it
did not our book. We're talking about our book in
this episode. I was put in my taxes and everything
and I looked at it. I was like, oh no,
that was a couple of years ago. Yes, I'm glad
I got it. But anyway, so some of it is
a little dated. It's been out for a while, but
(00:49):
I do think it's important because in it we talk
about the importance of a feminist works and book bands
and all of the stuff that Unfortunately it is even
more relevant than when we were talking about it then.
So I wanted to bring it back and please enjoy
(01:11):
this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and
welcome to Stefan Never Told You Protection of iHeartRadio. And
(01:31):
today we have a very special edition of a book
club for you. It's going to be a bit of
a discussion around the importance of feminist books, and also
why we should be paying attention to all of the
book banning efforts going on right now. But it's also
special because we have a very important announcement. We have
(01:53):
been hinting at it, we have been alluding to it,
and it's finally time. Is it is. Samantha and I
wrote a book, wrote a damn book. We did. It's
hard to believe. Honestly, it really really is. We did it.
(02:15):
It was a whirlwind, and you'll hear more about the
process of writing it in our upcoming Monday Mini But yes,
the book is called Stuff I've Never told You, The
Feminist Past, Present and Future. It comes out on August
twenty ninth.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Of twenty twenty three of twenty Yes, good dead that part,
very good call that you never know August twenty ninth
of twenty twenty three, and you can pre order it
at stuff you Should Read books dot com.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You can also find the link on our social media channels.
So yes, yes, go do it. It was a very
daunting process, as writing any book is, but also writing
any book about femine. Honestly, things changed so quickly, literally,
chapters we wrote or changing as we were writing them.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, because we started the whole thing twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh my god, Oh yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, so we had to keep changing it throughout, but
of course we had a lot of people helping, yeah,
on this journey. But yeah, it does feel like there's
so much outdated that we kept going, can we fix this?
Can we fix it?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Can we go back and add this in there? Yeah?
And it is. It's one of those things where it
reminds me of how my mom feels about when she
cooks things, where she's always nitpicking her own cooking. But
I'm like, it tastes really good. It's hard for me
to look at this objectively, but there are some really
cool parts I love about it. One is we were
(03:51):
lucky enough. Samantha had this idea like, let's add in
this graphic novel elements because we love that kind of stuff,
and we were lucky to work with a local illustrator
named Helen Choi, and Helen turned in our kind of
rambling ideas into beautiful art.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I would say it's probably one of my favorite parts
to the book, having her doing all the wonderful illustrations
of some of the stories that we thought were important,
and then having some of the best like graphics for again,
parts of the things that we couldn't say but wanted
to show. So she did a wonderful job. And it's
so so fun.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yes it is. It's really really fun. It was a
fun collaborating process, which we will talk about more in
our Monday mini. We were also lucky enough to work
with Jane Franson, who was kind of our editor ghost writer,
basically the person who made sure we got stuff done.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I'd like, I think we came in with an idea
that we would have a ghost writer, and then she
just ended up being our editor and then our manager,
kind of our agent. She just became everything a representative
and advocate for us. Not only would she go through
everything we wrote and be like, okay, we're going to
change this and this and this and make us sound
very smart, thank you very much, but she really wasn't
(05:10):
in between for being a translator, yes, between us in
the book world, because there's so many things that we
don't know in that field, and she was just a
pro holding our hands the entire time and making sure
that we were equipped to move forward.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yes, because we did not know what we were doing, like
not at all full transparency. We did not know. We
would ask the most I assume, basic questions, but she
was so kind and so yes helpful, and there would
literally be times where one of us or both of
us are having a panic attack and she would like
talk us down.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, and she did like even after we were done
trying to write acknowledgments my bio, I would send her
my clip.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I was like, what do you think of this?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
She would be like, yes, this is good, but let's
add this part. But she would The entire thing was
so less painful. Yes because of her.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yes. Yes. So look out for our Monday mini where
we talk more about that. Definitely check out you can
see an excert on that website. I read stuff you
should read books dot com and they chose we also
have Another idea of Samantha's was that there would be
these kind of like fictional women interludes. Of course, Princess
(06:27):
Leah's in there, but they chose the last of us
when I'm assuming because of the current interest to show
as an excert. So go check it out and you
can see some of the illustrations and they're really really
beautiful and amazing, and so we're happy to share it
with you. Now we don't have to be like coy
about it anymore. And we'll probably we'll be talking about
(06:49):
it more, we'll be mentioning it more. There might even
be some like hangouts virtual or in real life. Who knows,
who knows what? Well hell yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But
like we said, it is a bit daunting task. And
one of the things we wanted to talk about in
this is the importance of feminist books and feminism in books.
(07:11):
And I was looking it up and there seemed to
be some very basic things that kept coming up, and
one was defying patriarchal stereotypes. And that was in particular,
like even like in children's books or in fictional books,
of the importance of younger people to see something that
(07:31):
is not what you know, like these kind of traditional
patriarchal stereotypes that we normally get fed at a young age,
and why that's so important, and there is a lot
of research and science behind that. There's also just kind
of opening up your mind, both of young folks but
of older folks, and you and I have talked about that.
Of basically, for me, it was college, and there's been
(07:54):
some a little bit earlier than that, but college was
the big period where I started reading these materials or
consuming these materials, and it really changed how I looked
at the world and made me challenge how I looked
at the world, which is hugely important. Also, they provide
context and education. So many of the books we've focused
(08:18):
on in these book clubs have done that, and they've
done it so graciously when they honestly don't have to
be so gracious, but because it's true, like if you're
raised in one environment, it's so helpful to find a
book like this that's like, here's why you need to
start thinking about this or questioning this, or are those
(08:39):
kinds of things. It's just hugely important, and it's like everywhere.
I still love that. We've talked about topics ranging from
intersexual environmentalism to just basic like ableism or just basic
feminism and how it impacts every thing and that can
(09:01):
help shape how we view the world we live in.
The structures around us, can give you the tools to
combat oppression, to make society better, to recognize the toxic
systems and mindsets you've been raised in. And yeah, this
is sort of it's been very helpful to learn for me,
like how everything is intersectional, how you can't just separate
out these different threads that they all relate. And there
(09:25):
is so much to talk about when it comes to feminism,
it touches everything. And that was one of the big
struggles we had with this book. Well, so how do
we choose what to talk about and what not to
talk about? And it's just so so, so so much.
But I do think it's very very valuable. I think
that it has been. I think that I love when
(09:46):
we do a book club and they talk about another
book that they read that influenced them. Kind of seeing
all the impact of these books on how people think
and what they write about or what they pursue and
starting these conversations that are so so so important. And
as we talked about when we kind of did our
wrap up of twenty twenty two, we were talking about
(10:08):
book club, so many of these books that we've read
on here have just kind of opened another pathway in
my brain for thinking about something differently, or giving it
more context, or putting into words what I couldn't quite
put into words. And it's just it's so powerful that
kind of exchanging, especially if it's a an experience you
(10:29):
don't know too much about. It's just it really really
can open you up and make you think about things
differently in a way that is more conducive to.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
A better world, I would hope.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I think something that we have seen in many of
the books is that people are really giving themselves and
are being vulnerable within these books. And it's a privilege
to be a part of that just by reading what
has been published. When we talk about Bill Hooks or
any of the essays, that they really put it all
the work so much beforehand that coming back to it
(11:21):
and rediscovering it even though it's been around, has been
so important. And that's why when things are written down,
why we find it so important that we continue to
read it, because it is it doesn't go away, thank God.
And it may take a little while for us to
find again or to discover again, but it does. And
no matter as we're about to talk about, no matter
(11:41):
how people might push back, it can't go away, thank goodness.
And that's one of the things that we see is
that when we take something and are able to really
hone in on what it's trying to teach us, that
how valuable and how powerful those tools are are. And
I find it encouraging that we are able to access
(12:03):
that today.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Me too, Me too. And I think, like I said,
there's just so much you can find such niche things.
It's it's amazing and I love it. But it's important.
It is important, And like you said, this is even
a bigger deal right now given the wave of book
banning that we're seeing, especially around gender identity and LGBTQ
(12:27):
plus issues under the guys that these books are quote
sexually explicit, and race activism and feminist books are targeted
to as well as sex ed and abortion. I just
saw the day in Florida. They're trying to make it
so you can't talk the administration to people who are
a certain age, which is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
But I did see that lots of people in Florida
are doing a reading. So I think it's becoming a
new form of protest and I love it.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Me too, Me too. Yeah, there's been there's been a
couple of day has been pushed back in protest, and
we'll talk about that a little about the end. But
the US and people in general have a long history
of censorship and book banning, especially around religion, enslafement, and racism.
Jencrow Ara South is a big one, and sex and gender,
including birth control and conscious sceptives. According to the National
(13:19):
Geographic Quote. By the nineteen twenties, Boston was so notorious
for banning books that authors intentionally printed their books there
and hopes that the inevitable ban would give them a
publicity boost elsewhere in the country. Uh, but yes, book
banning is seeing a very big surge right now. Almost
every state in the US has seen arized in the
(13:41):
banning of books in recent years.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Right as a fight. Let's go over some numbers. From
July twenty twenty one to June twenty twenty two, Pan
America's Index of school book Bans list two five hundred
and thirty two instances of individual books being banned, affecting
one six hundred and forty eight unique book title. The
one thousand, six hundred forty eight titles are by two
(14:04):
hundred and sixty one different authors, two hundred and ninety illustrators,
and eighteen translators, impacting the literary, scholarly, and creative work
of one thousand, five hundred and fifty three people, all
together with other books that haven't been reported on top
of the bands occurred in one hundred and thirty eight
school districts in thirty two states. These districts represent five
forty nine schools with a combined enrollment of nearly four
(14:27):
million students.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah. So this is all part of a big pan
American study that a lot of people are referencing right now,
and you should go check it out because it has
a lot of data. For one, you can look at
who what state s the most bands, Texas as the most,
followed by Florida. The report found that ninety six percent
of the bands did not follow the best practice guidelines
for book challenges outlined by the American Library Association and
(14:52):
the National Coalition against Censorship. Nearly half of the book
spanned are young adult books. Here's another quote from the study.
The vast majority of the books targeted by these groups
for removal feature LGBTQ plus characters or characters of color,
and or cover race and racism in American history, LGBTQ
plus identities, or sex education.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
All right, Yeah, again, just a reminder, it's not even
about that they talk about sex. It's just mentioning a
character that might be gay, queer, or anything. So from
GPB quote Cheryl Lewis Hudson, an author and publisher specializing
in children's books celebrating black culture and black history, said
(15:35):
that book bands are about power and that they are
nothing new. She said the trend of book bands is
not only censorship, but a rature of marginalized communities. So
there is a trend in an underlying pattern of white
supremacy really that is challenging the actual existence of people
of color in a democracy, and I think that's very obvious.
I'm not even trying to hide it now.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
No, no, no. There's also been an increase in something
called preemptive bands, removing books that might be banned before
they're even banned. So in one case in Tennessee, our
library removed one third of their books from their shelves
and anticipation of a state law on LGBTQ plus content
that didn't pass, So they were just anticipating it and
(16:15):
they removed the books anyway, and that didn't happen. There's
also silent bands, where books are removed, are not displayed
to avoid controversy, and are labeled. Sometimes are labeled as inappropriate,
either in online catalogs or physically, like with actual warning
stickers placed on the books.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Oh my gosh, I know in bookstores, I've seen people
turning books around that they don't like, and then they
will come right back behind them and turning them back.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's quite a back and forth.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Okay, So here's another quote from the pen America report.
There have also been efforts to keep books out of
the hands of children, even if they remain in circulation.
So one prominent example of such activity was the Hide
the Pride, an initiative Catholic Vote dot org in June
twenty twenty two. Catholic Vote encourage members to check out
books from the Pride twenty twenty two displays in children's
(17:07):
sections of public libraries and to take pictures of the
empty shelves.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yes, and there there is a difference between a book
challenge and a book ban. A lot of times book
ban is getting used for a lot to encompass a
lot more than what it traditionally means. There's also a
difference between that and being canceled, which comes up in
this conversation too. And who can challenge or ban a
(17:32):
book varies by locality, so it gets really really messy,
really really fast. The report also found that this what
we're seeing right now of banning books is largely the
work of organizations and groups, many of them that popped
up in twenty twenty one, notably after the twenty twenty
(17:53):
election and the insurrection and schools reopening, and some openly
push Christian nationalist values. It's also politics involved in a
lot of this, obviously, right.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
So here's another quote from GPB. Fifty groups at the state, national,
and local level with as many as three hundred chapters
highlight a role in at least half of the book
bands enacted across the country during the twenty twenty one
twenty two school year. Of those groups, seventy three percent
were formed in twenty twenty one, according to that report.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, and they have in some cases harrassed and threatened
librarians and teachers. They've called them pedophiles, they've called them groomers.
They've attempted to defund entire libraries. They've filed criminal charges.
Several states have laws about providing pornographic material, which is
often the case used against queer content in this context.
(18:45):
This is a major thing people get wrong because the
issue is often framed as worried parents asking for a
banning of books, which it sometimes is. Yeah, so there
is that, but Plenty of people speaking at these meetings
that you've seen about banning books don't have kids, or
their kids are adults. Many will openly admit that they
(19:07):
haven't even read the book in question, but they will
just google like a book with queer character, and then
that's it. These groups have spreadsheets that they just circulate
where try to get this book banned in your area.
One of the groups is recognized as an LGBTQ plus
hate group and claim that January sixth was quote clearly
a setup. Many have names like Moms for Liberty, and
(19:32):
the Moms for Liberty has two hundred branches. They are organized,
they are recognized. The SANTIS spoke at one of their
conferences about parental rights as it's called. They market themselves
as grassroots, but many have connections to wealthy Republicans and
are very much not grassroots. Here's a quote from a
(19:55):
transgender man named Chris Mall. People are scared because they
don't think l GPTQ people should exist. They don't want
their own children to be LGBTQ, and they feel if
they can limit access to these books and materials, then
their children won't be that way, which is simply not true.
And it's heartbreaking and disgusting.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Which is hilarious because yeah, this is historical.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We have historical evidence. This does not work.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
That's not a thing. And because you're pushing back on
it so hard, you're about to get a flip. Like
the only hope that I feel like we have when
we talk about these subjects. And there's a lot of
bad news happening here all over the country. Georgia just
got some today and I'm very much in a flunk.
But the fact that I know with these pushes, oftentimes
(20:43):
the flip happens, and that means it's going to be
a revolution type of thing, and it's to be glorious
to see. I feel like every time. It may take
ten years, but it will come back and I'm excited
to see that part.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, oh yeah, me too. And then I didn't really
go into it too much. But Florida is like a
big focal point of this. It is not by any
means the only state doing this, but that they're like
that don't the so called don't say gay law. One
of the things we've seen in its wake is confusion
(21:16):
of like teachers not knowing what to do. They've been
told to quote air on the side of caution. And
you know, while DeSantis and his supporters will say, well,
it's just I think grade grade three and below, but
it also has age appropriate in there, which means that
any parent at any time could challenge a teacher and
(21:40):
could get in big trouble or a librarian. And we've
seen those videos of empty shelves, and you know, there's
been some back and forth about some of them not
being true, but some of them are. Uh, and so
that's that's a heartbreaking. That's like students being deprived of
(22:01):
all of the material. And then, if you're curious, this
was more than I really wanted to break down in this,
but I was interested in it. So this whole parental
rights argument isn't new either, but it is also in
juxtaposition of the First minute rights of students. And there
have been several Supreme Court cases affirming the rights of students.
(22:23):
And here's the quote from one of them. Local school
boards may not remove books from school libraries simply because
they dislike the ideas contained in those books. Now, unfortunately,
our current Supreme Court kind of sucks, so who knows, right.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
That might be turned over again. Yeah, it's quite interesting
because again with the news, there's a lot of anti
trans bills and it's targeted at parents and young children.
Supposedly we always targeted at trans people in general, but
the language is talking about children to the fact that
they're also going after medical professionals who may assist. But
(22:57):
I find that again ironic about parental rights. But yet
we take away parental rights right But again once again
so library and Sam Helmick said, can we acknowledge that
this will have a chilling effect? And when you tell
me that books about myself as an asexual, non binary person,
who didn't have those books in the libraries when I
(23:19):
was a kid to pick up and flip through, but
now publishing has caught up with me and I can
see representation of me. Those will be behind the desk,
and that's not supposed to make me feel less welcome,
less seen, and less represented in my library. And there's
so much again the whole level, because we're not even
tackling critical race theory, which is a part of this
(23:39):
conversation too. They want to take anything out that has
a conversation about race because they don't know what critical
race theory is. Again, they also obviously can't tell what
queer porn is versus just a story about a queer person.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, yeah, which is highly offensive because then the the
understanding is that all queer people are just pornographic in nature.
I mean, you do you, but that's quite an assumption
to make. So yeah, this has been kind of grand.
(24:25):
There are some positives though. Polls have found that Americans
across the political spectrum do not approve of book bands,
and there have long been efforts to push back. They
are happening now, They've been happening for a long time.
My high school had a Banned Books Week. There's a
band book Week in September, and we would celebrate it
in my high school. Although I bet that would not
fly now, I bet that would not fly, But I
(24:47):
loved it. It was great because so many books that
are banned are like books that we loved. It's like
that you don't know why they're banned anyway. Students have
been fighting b well, in the face of like jeering
and taunting from adults. Adults, the librarians and teachers and
(25:09):
parents are fighting back. You can find a lot of
inspirational stories about it. Also heartbreaking, but inspirational. It's heartbreaking
what they had to go through, and they have seen
some successes. So for example, quote round Rock Black Parents
Association successfully campaigned for the book Stamped for Kids, Racism,
Anti Racism and You, A History of Racism in the
US by the black authors Jason Reynolds and Ebram X
(25:30):
Kendy to remain on the shelves after it faced a ban.
Hundreds of parents and anti censorship activists campaigned in New
Jersey to keep a series of books addressing LGBTQ plus experiences,
including Gender Queer by Mayacobabe and A Long Boy by
Jonathan Ivison in school libraries. And by the way, Gender
Queer is the most banned book in America right now.
(25:52):
So there is good news, but we have to keep
fighting because the other a lot of the things I read,
we're saying, like we a lot of people don't realize
how organized this like banning book effort is. That it's
not just like a random parent, Like it's an organization
that is targeting and finding support. So that's important to know,
(26:14):
Like it is not just like a parent that it
has suddenly been like, oh, I don't think my kid
should be reading this. There are spreadsheets and like sign
up sheets and make sure you're at this meeting.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Well, I mean that goes to say about all the
things that we're seeing right now, because across the board,
the majority of people are in support of the things
that are being banned. Whether it's abortion, whether it's career rights,
and whether it's book bands, whether there it's critical race theory,
the majority of people, according to the polls, are actually
in support of it or we just really don't care
enough to do this. Literally like sixty percent if not
(26:48):
higher for all of these things. So we know is
an organized few. And that's the scary part. And again,
this is what we're watching. I don't want to compare
it to all things, but when it comes to fascism,
there is is a playbook, and it seems to be
that we are following this playbook.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Oh yeah, I mean, anytime like censorship and book banning,
you need to keep an eye on it. It's not
a good thing. Like controlling power and education like that
is very very concerning. And yeah, like like we've said,
many of the amazing books we've talked about in this
segment have been banned. I know, fun Home for Me
(27:27):
comes to mind. We talked about it in that episode,
and it is it's harmful for people to lose access
to these amazing works and you know, seeing yourself, especially
as a young person, Like it's so important when you're
going through this kind of tumultuous time try and figure
out who you are. And then they're removing books. I mean,
what are you supposed to take from that?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And just as a reminder, and I love it. Social
media is an amazing platform for us to be reminded
that there are more of us than them.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yes, yes there are, there absolutely are, and it does matter,
like we said, like the power of seeing yourself, of
challenging white supremacy, of challenging peric jerch. You're just like
like for me, like coming from a small town and
getting this material and having like a real awakening sounds
(28:18):
kind of a nerdy, but like you know, like, oh,
there's so much more that I wasn't getting that I
was being told and that was harmful to me and
to everyone around me to like all of those things.
Like it's so important that we have access to these things.
So so, if if any of you have been involved
in these efforts to fight back against book banning, we
(28:41):
would love, love, love for you to let us know.
You can certainly see our upcoming episode on the writing process.
I did have a thought of like a wonderful we'll
get banned that. The only thing is, I feel like
you have to have a certain level of popularity to
be banned, right, so we'll see.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
You made if we get banned, Like if this is
still going, I will fill this pride of knowing that
we got banned.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
We made somebody angry enough, not I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Ine people angry, just why talking about Stacey Abrams.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
So let us go that's true. It's true. Well, if
you want to check out this book that might make
people very angry and get banned, Yes, it is going
on sale August twenty ninth. You can pre order at
stuff you Should read books dot com. You can see
an excerpt from it, you can see the beautiful art
by Helen Joy and on our There will be announcements
(29:35):
on our social media and links that you can click
on in the bio. So thank you, thank you, thank
you for your support, your continued support, and as always,
if you have any suggestions for books we should be
doing on this segment, please let us know. You can
email us at Stephanie and Mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told.
(29:57):
You can also find us on YouTube. Thanks is always too,
our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
contributor Joey.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Thank you, comes Amida, Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And thanks to you for listening. Stefan never told you
the protection of my heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my Heart Radio, check out the heart Radio Apple podcasts.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!