September 20, 2025 • 28 mins
Creepy, kooky, mysterious and spooky Wednesday Addams hates us and we love her for it. Why do we have a fascination with deadpan women? What does feminism and girlhood have to do with it? What about dancing and goth fashion?? We discuss in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I come to stuff
I ever told you production by Heart Radio and Listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Just a peak behind the scenes. When we do these classics,
we do them in batches, so sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah,
I forgot we recorded that week's ago. But the three
that we're recording today are all we're moving into our
October kind of fall autumn creepy times. And I didn't
(00:41):
really mean to do this, but all of them are.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Irrelated to that. They love it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, starting with we're bringing back the episode we did
on Wednesday Adams, because the new season on Wednesday came
out not a sponsor.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Wasn't a sponsor? Then not a sponsor?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Now wish I did watch and enjoyed, and I always
you know, and I hear that theme song, I know
what's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I know Halloween is all the way. Yes, so please
enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm not good to Steffan never told you a protection
of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And welcome to another sub sub sub whatever sub segment fictional.
When around the world, I will say I'm in a
bit of a pickle. I'm in a bit of a pickle.
Samantha because I really wanted to do and I continue
(01:53):
to want to do a few last of us characters
because the show is coming out in January and I'm
hyped for this and I want to talk about them.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But now it's like a strange spoilery.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Zone because the game has been out since twenty thirteen.
But everybody I thought of, I'm like, that's a pretty
big spoiler if somebody has somehow managed to avoid getting
spoiled from listening to this show.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Right to be fair, outside of listening to the show, obviously,
but with the show coming on on HBO, had it
not been for you, I would not know anything about
the show.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But if I talked about the people I was going
to talk about, it would have been a major spoiler.
There was four people I thought of, four, and all
of them I was like, oh no, I can't.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oh no, Well, I've definitely done spoiler days years before,
So I think as long as you do the spoiler
alert at the top, yeah, okay, I think we should.
I think you should think about it. You don't have
to be in that pickle anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You're trying to get me out of this pickle. I
was you should have seen me deliberate. I know it
wouldn't surprise you, but I was like, just couldn't.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
No, it doesn't you deliberating on things.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Does not.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
No well.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And the interesting thing is I actually had another character
I was going to talk about today who I really
cannot wait to talk about.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
It is from a cartoon series. I'll give you a
little hint.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I know who wrote you could look at the calendar,
but don't. Don't let it be a surprise. No, no,
But I bumped it because the internet is on fire
with this fictional character, because today we are talking about
Wednesday Adams, the deadpan goth character who has ye just
(03:39):
taken over the internet. And that's saying something that I
know about it because I'm not on TikTok, but things
have come my way and.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I did watch the show, so I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
But because I am from the original era of Christina Lucci,
not Rich, I guess the secondary era of Riti playing
the character.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Had there been social media like that.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I think she would have really owned it because she
kind of owned our generation between this character Casper and
Now and then those movies.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
She I think would have been could have been a
little more iconic.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
I mean to the fact that she was in this
news edition because she was that iconic.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yes, well, I hope you'll talk about that when we
get to it, because I've actually never seen.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It any of those things.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So yes, I spoilers, but very light spoilers, I'll say.
For the show, I haven't really had a lot of
experience with the Adams family. I vaguely remember watching some
of the very old show when I was a kid
because my dad liked it in the song the theme
song was on the Halloween playlist every year.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
But that's about that was the extent of my knowledge.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I did watch Netflix's Wednesday, which broke the platforms record
for most hours streamed. I did always like the character though,
even though I hadn't like seen a lot of the
material she was in. I always liked her. I liked
the look of her. I liked the general vibe of her.
I think I wanted to dresses her. I have a
(05:15):
Wednesday outfit up here. I never did it, but I
have the outfit that's ready to go.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
That iconic dress, which has always been a part of
the character since the beginning. That's still a big fashion
trend and it was even before this release. Has been
like I remember looking for something for like nice black dresses,
and that dress would pop up and I'm like, why
would I, as an adult thing, want to go to
a wedding wearing that?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But no, it would be awesome people. You get people
talking true. So here's the quote about the numbers.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Tim Burton's Adams Family reboot series has become only the
third Netflix show to rack up a billion hours of
views in a month, and I believe it's gone up
since then. The dance, the Wednesday Dance, which has a
lot of issues and back and forth round.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It, but it is everywhere.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Tim Burton, who directed a bunch of the episodes, is problematic,
but we are not talking about that today. That's a
different thing. And yeah, we're not really going to go
in depth on plot stuff. We're more just talking about
the character. So yeah, minor spoilers, but not nothing major. Also,
I was born on a Wednesday and the poem Wednesday's
(06:27):
Child is full of flow. I loved that poem when
I was a kid because I really wanted to be emo.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Even young. I was like, ah, yes, yeah, the tragedy
of being born on a Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And there's a series called The Keys to the Kingdom
series which I loved when I was a kid, and
it had all these kind of like.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Every character Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It represented like one of the seven Sins, and Wednesday
was one of my favorites. Okay, so let's talk about
this character. So Wednesday Friday Adams is one of the
main characters of the Adams Family franchise is depicted in
the comics that first debuted in nineteen thirty eight in
The New Yorker, and TV shows, films, and a musical.
(07:10):
If you don't know, at the core, the Adams family
is sort of a wacky, creepy, outcast family of gothy
kind of monster adjacent folks. They're sort of like the
Halloween version of something like the Brady's. So Wednesday's parents
are more Titia and Gomez Adams, and she is the
older sister to Pugsley and Pubert Adams, though the ages
(07:31):
and order has changed a lot. And yeah, she was
named after the nursery rhymeline. Wednesday's child is full of woe.
Over the years, she has been played by several people,
from Lisa Louring, Christina Valenzuela, Nicole Fuguiere, Khylie Grace Moretz,
Christina Ricci, and now Jena Ortega. She's usually depicted as
having pale skin, dark hair and braided pigtails, black clothes,
(07:55):
and just a general gothy look, although that's not always
true but kind of generally right yeah, And this has
also sparked conversation about Latina representation because generally, but not always,
Gomez has been played by Latino actor, but it was
never really a big piece of his identity. And while
(08:16):
people were excited for Tega on the new show, the
same is true for her character and her very sympathetic
ancestor Goodie in the show is a white settler with
blonde hair, and many argue should have been a meso
American or indigenous person instead. And on top of that,
a lot of the bullies, who admittedly were redeemed but
still were the few black characters in the show right, so.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Including owning a pilgrim world, which is like yes.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
On the creators and actors.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
The character has changed in its depiction, but a few
things generally remain the same. For instance, when she was
first introduced in the nineteen sixties show as a six
year old girl. People argue about her age all the time.
She was fascinated with the macabre, and that's been a
constant theme of her character. However, some iterations of her
have been sweeter than what most of us probably would expect.
(09:23):
Definitely in the context of the rest of her family.
She was the quote nice one in these early versions
in the nineties movie series, though she was meaner and
you'll have to talk about.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
This, Savantha.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
She also typically has a strong protected streak with her family,
though she might try to hide or deny it. However,
there are plenty of instances where she really really punishes
people who disrespect her family. In the twenty nineteen movie,
she's nice to those who don't bother her, but not
so much to those who do, and she usually has.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Some kind of scientist or smooth angle going.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
On, right.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
She's always either doing in an experiment or she's always
on a case of something. And the ones that I
do remember is she does love punishing her brother Slash,
playing quote unquote with her brother, but it's typically like
trying to dismember him, or trying to electrocute him, or
trying to explode him.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And he loves it publicly just loves it.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
However, Yeah, but if he tried to mess with her
or try to tease her, She's gonna come at you.
The two difference with Ricchie and Ortega, the or take
a character is a lot more. I feel like she
would be actually on the spectrum character of like being
so hyper focused and so like over the top, like
unable to excude emotions as where Richie's character just didn't
want to. It was kind of like one of those
(10:40):
one felt like a choice, one felt like a diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
If you can, if you can go there.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Right right, that's a quote, that's the quote of the episode.
Well do you remember, like when did you see the
nineties movie?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh, I was definitely younger. It's definitely during the times
of was after I want to say Casper, which we
all loved everything because Devin Sawa. We loved Devin Sawa
and then like fell in love with the ghost.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Apparently. I was pretty young.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I was eleven, and Christina Ricci would have been eleven
as well. I think we were the same age. And
by the way, I do love the resurgence of Christina
Ricci coming back full swing into the acting world because.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
She's always been great to me.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So the three films that I know her best are
The Adam's Family, Casper, and Now and Then. So for me,
I think Now and Then was the big one because
that was specifically made for I think young girls. But
then like, yeah, she was Adam's Family first and then
the other two. But what I do remember is like,
(11:45):
even though you had big names like in Jelkie Houston,
Christopher Lloyd, as in fact, one of the movies were
based on Christopher Lloyd coming back to the family, Christina
Ricci always always pulled focus, whether it was she was
the one I think investigating Christoph Lloyd actually his character
who plays Uncle Fester, who loses his memory and comes
(12:05):
back to the family. So it's like she was the
focus for all the movies even though other big name
characters were on it as well, and she was fairly
new for that.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So that's what I do remember.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
And her characters were always like pointed, like it was
dark and mysterious, but it was her character, those big eyes.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
It worked for her.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I would agree, like again, I haven't
seen it, but what I felt like when I think
of those movies, all the images I remember, all the
like random quotes I've heard people say are from Wednesday. Yeah,
And I had to resist just reading a bunch of
quotes because that character, it just bangs them out, like yes.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yes, shown a witty one liner, likes things and walks away.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yes, it's amazing, Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And that's kind of the thing why people love this
character so much, because she has been the source of
a lot of feminist articles and so many people over
the years have cosplayed her. The second I saw this
new show, I was like, oh, yeah, next year at
dragon Con, this is it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
This is gonna be.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Huge, all of them. Yes, yeah, and I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
There's like iconic looks. I get it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And I do think one of the reasons she really
resonated with a lot of people, and a lot of
women and girls is that she is the opposite of
how young girls are typically portrayed in our media, which
we've talked about a lot in the show, Like there
are so many juxtapositions with her because pigtails, for instance,
are usually associated with innocent young girls. But she does
(13:36):
not behave that way. She doesn't beave how you expect.
She leans into the strange. She is quote not emotional,
which we'll return to in a minute. But she's just
kind of like the opposite of what we're used to
seeing and much of our media when it comes to
that type of character. From Black Girl Nerds, specifically about
(13:57):
the nineties version of this character quote, she's not nice,
she's not sweet, and she's not sorry. Wednesday Adams is blunt, cynical, sarcastic,
and has the most enviable, resting bitch face, none of
which she has any intention of apologizing for. That's right,
when unsuspecting people dole out the usual garbage of you
should smile more, Wednesday asserts herself firmly and defiantly refuses
to smile on command, a brilliant example for every young
(14:20):
girl told to make herself look friendly and approachable, because
God forbid, women appear the least bit intimidating. Although she
is white, cis presumably straight female. She doesn't use her
privilege as an excuse, but rather as a tool to
amplify the voices of those who find it much harder
to be heard. And then this is from bitch Flicks,
What does it mean to be a little girl? There's
(14:41):
so much cultural baggage associated with female childhood. On the
one hand, little girls are pure and innocent and needing
of protection. They're the emotional backdrop of a thousand action movies.
The father must get home and save his darling little girl.
On the other hand, little girls are threatening, They're creepy,
They're the demons of a thousand horror movies. The family
union must save itself from the imprecations of a terrifying
(15:04):
little girl who wants to destroy them. And then there's
Wednesday Adams. She's another thing entirely, and Wednesday is still
really really threatening.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's right threatening.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Part of why I loved these movies so much as
a kid was because Wednesday, far from being a delicate
flower or even playing second fiddle to her brother, is
arguably the most dangerous character in the whole story. She
has a sense of apathy and morbid misery mixed in
with a violent streak and superhuman strength. She's very threatening,
especially to everyone she views as well.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
That's threat.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I would say that if she fears anything, it's becoming normal,
and that's a powerful message, the idea that the biggest
thing we had to fear is not abnormality, but the
loss of what makes us distinct. It's especially poignant coming
from Wednesday, because what makes her distinct is so well distinctive. Yes, yes,
And as we said, she's very, very antisocial, and she
(15:58):
has so many great dark, dark at one liners, and
it's kind of comical and entertaining to see a young
girl reject so much of societal norms to talk about
these huge literary figures, to quote them like's.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It was funny to see the juxtaposition.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Of her and her roommate, who a lot of people ship,
by the way, in the new show.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, apparently Ortega doesn't two. I don't know if
she's just like feeding into the frenzy.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
But uh it made yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
One of the things I think is interesting because in
what I remember about the nineteen ninety one movies, and
someone can correct me, but there is a really problematic
scene nineteen ninety one in which they are playing Native
Americans and cowboys essentially, but Wednesday makes this comment about
how the pilgrims slaughtered essentially all of the Native Americans
(16:47):
and it is their fault that they brought in disease
and like they tricked the man.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Like she says this, and everybody's like, oh.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
My god, you know, like making a comitic scene, as
well as the fact that in the New Wednesday they
talk about the problematic issues with chocolate and how they
use enslaved peoples and the Germans used in slave peoples
to gather all this chocolate and massacred a whole community
for chocolate. And I found that funny because like, these
are the things that we know Wenesday does. She's going
(17:15):
to take what white people, and essentially it is white
people would want as a celebration to be decimated with
the truth, like the level of the problematic issues with
that subject that people, the white people.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Were trying to celebrate. So I did appreciate those things.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
That was a couple of the things that like poked
out of my mind when it comes to the fact that.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
She was making sure you knew the truth whether you
liked it or not. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, And that's kind of one of the things that
I think is really interesting about this character. Why I
think so many people like her is she doesn't so
many of us for reasons We've talked about, for reasons
I totally understand, and I've done, like you do that
thing for safety, Like you're like, oh, I don't want
to speak up because it's not safe for me to do.
So it's fun to watch a character be like no,
and she's danger like they said, like you don't mess
(18:01):
with her. So it's really like rewarding to kind of
get to live that moment of oh, I wish I
could do that, like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Really live it.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
And then I do love so many things aimed at
teenage girls, and I think this is changing, and it
has been changing for a while, but for so long
was just like so focused on the romance part and
so focused on like the thing she'd be writing in
her diary is, oh, why won't this guy notice me?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's like the last thing on her mind.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's not that she's like if something comes her way,
she's not kind of interested, but that's just not her thing,
Like that's the bet on the back burner she's got
all these other things.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Are right, that's definitely nineteen ninety one. Wednesday didn't care
about boys boys.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Right, And I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I appreciate I liked seeing the comparison of her like
her in the room mate, where the roommate's like, I
have my blog and I'm writing about.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
This and this and this, and Wednesday's just like let
this thing. Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Here is a quote from the Guardian, especially for a
teenager with a kid friendly rating. Wednesday speaks with the
critical self awareness and acumen of your textbook byronic hero,
a literary architect commonly associated with Heathcliff of Emily Bronte's
Wuthering Heights, or more recently, Gossip Girls, Chuck Bass and
even Sylvie. They're your clever, morose, condescending types, dangerously blessed
(19:20):
with irresistible good looks and saddled the baggage of past trauma.
Wednesday's trauma is the death of her pet Scorpion, who
was murdered when she was six. She's sence bowed to
never cry again.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
That was hard, That was mean.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It was mean.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I did I want to come back and talk about
this because a lot of articles have come out about
because of the popularity of the show about why we
love women who hate us?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So I do want to come.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Back and talk about Oh lord, no, I think it'll
be interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I think be funny. I would argue in the new show.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
She is somewhat of what a mainstream media person would
call Mary Sue. I have a whole lot of thoughts
about this, and you can listen to our past episode
about that. But like good at everything other than human interaction,
and everyone loves her. But again I don't think there's
anything wrong with that necessarily, And dudes get away with
that Scott free without a sexist moniker being attached to them,
(20:12):
So just to put that out there. She also has
like psychic powers, which I think has gone off and
on throughout her her run. She can play the cello,
can speak multiple languages, convince she's pretty awesome.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And an archer in all of the movies.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's the archer. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
One thing that they didn't really resolve in this season
of the show. I haven't seen any of the other things,
and I saw some people kind of complain about this,
But there was a tense mother daughter relationship in the
show where Wednesday did not want to be like her mother,
kind of felt pressure to be like her, very much like.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
A teenage pushing away, don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I've heard that that was kind of a departure.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, that's never a thing.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
The mother never really cares and the daughter never really
cares for her mother's approval. Actually, everything she did she
got her mother's approval essentially, And it's true the Wednesday one,
she everything she did. Mother was proud because it was
all that dark and morose type of conversation and they're
very proud of that. The only thing that the mother,
(21:14):
Catherine Sada Jones, which was I did not realize she
was going to play this until I watched it, is
that she wants her daughter's affections. Yeah, that's not a
thing right in the other movies, I kind of separates
the two of them mistigially.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah. Yeah, So we could come back.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And maybe talk about that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Later.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I do also think this is an interesting uh in
that activist around the world where you unfortunately could not
be there where I read listener mail Samantha I did.
I mentioned a quote about I seen from a famous
author who is saying like, essentially, once you start to
break apart characters for that are intended for children audiences,
(22:10):
as an adult.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Everything falls apart.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And I do think this was a really interesting example
of where Wednesday's like, well, I've been somebody's trying to
kill me, and.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I've been like all this stuff of this stuff, and
they're like, oh great, it's going well, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It was a fun flip on that that whole idea and.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Then going back to something you said earlier.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
There has been discussion about how Wednesday's anti social behaviors
could be coded as autism or something on the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Here's another quote from The Guardian.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Only when a conventionally beautiful, non weird person performs weirdness
is this palatable to quote normal people? According to one commentary,
the parent of an autistic child actually quote weird people
get bullied, sidelined or placed outside of the zone of
real friendships, and I agree. I think this is one
of the reasons the character hits with so many people
who feel like outcasts in one way or another. But
realistically it wouldn't play out like this again right.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
As an adult to be fair into this series, specifically
the very beginning scene which she's expelled from a regular school.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
They are the outcast there.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
She gets expelled, which that's why her brother gets bullied constantly.
She comes to a school for wayward people like people
with powers, so that behavior is not so off putting
in a school like that. I think someone with a
spectrum that has that typic if she was on the spectrum,
as I was saying, I'm like, if I was watching
(23:35):
this clinically, I would think that she was on the
spectrum with high functioning all of these things and more
OCD than anything else, because her hyper focus is very obvious,
to the point that she does not care who she
runs over, which was part of the conversation in that
she's in an environment where she success. She's successful because
she can do all of these things really really well
(23:57):
in a school that is an outsider.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So right would she have been so outsided? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Right, that's a good point. That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And another thing is like she's she's a really fun character,
but she is pretty toxic. Like, Okay, we're putting in
our real world things, right, it doesn't necessarily need to be.
But she's definitely a friend I would drop. I would
drop her. Very fun to watch. Christina Ricci said of
her Wednesday, was allowed to be just who she was.
(24:26):
She's never asked to change or compromise or hide who
she is.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And actually there's there was.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
A whole piece CNN just released yesterday about why in
the world did this dance take off so much? And
that was one of their big points, was like, it's
because she essentially was she was doing the dance like
nobody's watching but did not care at all.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
She was being herself.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Absolutely and also retro is coming back in. That was
like a retro interpreted dance.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
It was, it was. It was very unpredictable. That's what
I would say.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
From Slat. Here's a quote. Sure, there are problems with this.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
For one, it assumes that stoicism, a more stereotypically masculine trade,
is preferred. The feminine position on the emotional gender binary
leans toward expressiveness and melodrama, and the cliche that women
can't control their emotions and is often weaponized against them.
How many times have women been deemed too emotional to
do something like Romona Country mass swooning over deadpan women
implies that expressive, vivacious women are somehow not in control.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Quite the opposite.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
There's bravery and merit and being as passionate or allowed
as you want to be, knowing it could be spit
back at you in some silly gender debate.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
It means someone has the guts to let you know them.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then one final quote from the Guardian, the enduring
appeal of characters like this an admittedly toxic outcast with
inherently good intentions is the desire for every weirdo to
feel seen on TV. Wednesday's formula may be flawed, but
fantasy is the point in an idealized world where your
well timed barbes and lack of interest in others' approval
made you impervious to bullies and the caretaker of your
(25:56):
fellow misfits. Who wouldn't want to be Wednesday Adams. Yes, yeah, yep,
that's what we're.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Kind of talking about.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Like, yeah, in this fantasy world, it'd be great if
you just say what you want, protect the misfits fantastic.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And can shoot in po and era, yes, and.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Can shoot a bow and arrow confence.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Slipping and she lost. Though I did like it.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I liked that too.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That was unpredicted, that was not what I expected.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, I liked that too, But also yeah, I like
I like I said, I want to come back and
revisit this deadpan woman thing because I don't think it's wrong.
I think it's really fun to see a character like
this who is stoic and all those things. But there
is we can't ignore that. Yeah, that's typically more of
a masculine thing, and right, all of this seems like.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
It's mel gaze and I speaking of that, I definitely
saw a TikTok. And when men write women being strong,
yes literally like stoic, deadpan and being angry but like
seating but fighting the type of and if you're feminine,
that's not a heroin right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so we'll have to come back and talk about that.
I do think that these characters are wonderful and I
think that should be a a fine thing to.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Do, but we can't. Yeah, there's so much other stuff,
so much other stuff in the background. But yeah, this
is a really fun one to research, and.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I honestly this is a longer one of these episodes,
and I narrowed it down, like.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
A lot of things.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
About this, So maybe we'll come back in one day
revisit it. There's so much out there if you want
to read more about her. But she's Yeah, she was
a fun character to research.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I liked it.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
In the meantime. I do got a lot of character
just coming up. But if you've got one that's burning
in the back of your brain, listeners, please let us know.
You can email us Stephania mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at most step Podcasts,
or on Instagram at stuff When Never Told You.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Thanks as always to our super producer christ Do you.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Know another incredible woman?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yes, indeed, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When
I Ever Told you the production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcast from My Heart Radio, you can check out the
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or regulusen to your favorite
shows
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I come to stuff
I ever told you production by Heart Radio and Listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Just a peak behind the scenes. When we do these classics,
we do them in batches, so sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah,
I forgot we recorded that week's ago. But the three
that we're recording today are all we're moving into our
October kind of fall autumn creepy times. And I didn't
(00:41):
really mean to do this, but all of them are.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Irrelated to that. They love it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, starting with we're bringing back the episode we did
on Wednesday Adams, because the new season on Wednesday came
out not a sponsor.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Wasn't a sponsor? Then not a sponsor?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Now wish I did watch and enjoyed, and I always
you know, and I hear that theme song, I know
what's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I know Halloween is all the way. Yes, so please
enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm not good to Steffan never told you a protection
of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And welcome to another sub sub sub whatever sub segment fictional.
When around the world, I will say I'm in a
bit of a pickle. I'm in a bit of a pickle.
Samantha because I really wanted to do and I continue
(01:53):
to want to do a few last of us characters
because the show is coming out in January and I'm
hyped for this and I want to talk about them.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But now it's like a strange spoilery.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Zone because the game has been out since twenty thirteen.
But everybody I thought of, I'm like, that's a pretty
big spoiler if somebody has somehow managed to avoid getting
spoiled from listening to this show.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Right to be fair, outside of listening to the show, obviously,
but with the show coming on on HBO, had it
not been for you, I would not know anything about
the show.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But if I talked about the people I was going
to talk about, it would have been a major spoiler.
There was four people I thought of, four, and all
of them I was like, oh no, I can't.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oh no, Well, I've definitely done spoiler days years before,
So I think as long as you do the spoiler
alert at the top, yeah, okay, I think we should.
I think you should think about it. You don't have
to be in that pickle anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You're trying to get me out of this pickle. I
was you should have seen me deliberate. I know it
wouldn't surprise you, but I was like, just couldn't.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
No, it doesn't you deliberating on things.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Does not.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
No well.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And the interesting thing is I actually had another character
I was going to talk about today who I really
cannot wait to talk about.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
It is from a cartoon series. I'll give you a
little hint.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I know who wrote you could look at the calendar,
but don't. Don't let it be a surprise. No, no,
But I bumped it because the internet is on fire
with this fictional character, because today we are talking about
Wednesday Adams, the deadpan goth character who has ye just
(03:39):
taken over the internet. And that's saying something that I
know about it because I'm not on TikTok, but things
have come my way and.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I did watch the show, so I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
But because I am from the original era of Christina Lucci,
not Rich, I guess the secondary era of Riti playing
the character.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Had there been social media like that.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I think she would have really owned it because she
kind of owned our generation between this character Casper and
Now and then those movies.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
She I think would have been could have been a
little more iconic.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
I mean to the fact that she was in this
news edition because she was that iconic.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yes, well, I hope you'll talk about that when we
get to it, because I've actually never seen.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It any of those things.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So yes, I spoilers, but very light spoilers, I'll say.
For the show, I haven't really had a lot of
experience with the Adams family. I vaguely remember watching some
of the very old show when I was a kid
because my dad liked it in the song the theme
song was on the Halloween playlist every year.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
But that's about that was the extent of my knowledge.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I did watch Netflix's Wednesday, which broke the platforms record
for most hours streamed. I did always like the character though,
even though I hadn't like seen a lot of the
material she was in. I always liked her. I liked
the look of her. I liked the general vibe of her.
I think I wanted to dresses her. I have a
(05:15):
Wednesday outfit up here. I never did it, but I
have the outfit that's ready to go.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
That iconic dress, which has always been a part of
the character since the beginning. That's still a big fashion
trend and it was even before this release. Has been
like I remember looking for something for like nice black dresses,
and that dress would pop up and I'm like, why
would I, as an adult thing, want to go to
a wedding wearing that?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But no, it would be awesome people. You get people
talking true. So here's the quote about the numbers.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Tim Burton's Adams Family reboot series has become only the
third Netflix show to rack up a billion hours of
views in a month, and I believe it's gone up
since then. The dance, the Wednesday Dance, which has a
lot of issues and back and forth round.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It, but it is everywhere.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Tim Burton, who directed a bunch of the episodes, is problematic,
but we are not talking about that today. That's a
different thing. And yeah, we're not really going to go
in depth on plot stuff. We're more just talking about
the character. So yeah, minor spoilers, but not nothing major. Also,
I was born on a Wednesday and the poem Wednesday's
(06:27):
Child is full of flow. I loved that poem when
I was a kid because I really wanted to be emo.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Even young. I was like, ah, yes, yeah, the tragedy
of being born on a Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And there's a series called The Keys to the Kingdom
series which I loved when I was a kid, and
it had all these kind of like.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Every character Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It represented like one of the seven Sins, and Wednesday
was one of my favorites. Okay, so let's talk about
this character. So Wednesday Friday Adams is one of the
main characters of the Adams Family franchise is depicted in
the comics that first debuted in nineteen thirty eight in
The New Yorker, and TV shows, films, and a musical.
(07:10):
If you don't know, at the core, the Adams family
is sort of a wacky, creepy, outcast family of gothy
kind of monster adjacent folks. They're sort of like the
Halloween version of something like the Brady's. So Wednesday's parents
are more Titia and Gomez Adams, and she is the
older sister to Pugsley and Pubert Adams, though the ages
(07:31):
and order has changed a lot. And yeah, she was
named after the nursery rhymeline. Wednesday's child is full of woe.
Over the years, she has been played by several people,
from Lisa Louring, Christina Valenzuela, Nicole Fuguiere, Khylie Grace Moretz,
Christina Ricci, and now Jena Ortega. She's usually depicted as
having pale skin, dark hair and braided pigtails, black clothes,
(07:55):
and just a general gothy look, although that's not always
true but kind of generally right yeah, And this has
also sparked conversation about Latina representation because generally, but not always,
Gomez has been played by Latino actor, but it was
never really a big piece of his identity. And while
(08:16):
people were excited for Tega on the new show, the
same is true for her character and her very sympathetic
ancestor Goodie in the show is a white settler with
blonde hair, and many argue should have been a meso
American or indigenous person instead. And on top of that,
a lot of the bullies, who admittedly were redeemed but
still were the few black characters in the show right, so.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Including owning a pilgrim world, which is like yes.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
On the creators and actors.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
The character has changed in its depiction, but a few
things generally remain the same. For instance, when she was
first introduced in the nineteen sixties show as a six
year old girl. People argue about her age all the time.
She was fascinated with the macabre, and that's been a
constant theme of her character. However, some iterations of her
have been sweeter than what most of us probably would expect.
(09:23):
Definitely in the context of the rest of her family.
She was the quote nice one in these early versions
in the nineties movie series, though she was meaner and
you'll have to talk about.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
This, Savantha.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
She also typically has a strong protected streak with her family,
though she might try to hide or deny it. However,
there are plenty of instances where she really really punishes
people who disrespect her family. In the twenty nineteen movie,
she's nice to those who don't bother her, but not
so much to those who do, and she usually has.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Some kind of scientist or smooth angle going.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
On, right.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
She's always either doing in an experiment or she's always
on a case of something. And the ones that I
do remember is she does love punishing her brother Slash,
playing quote unquote with her brother, but it's typically like
trying to dismember him, or trying to electrocute him, or
trying to explode him.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And he loves it publicly just loves it.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
However, Yeah, but if he tried to mess with her
or try to tease her, She's gonna come at you.
The two difference with Ricchie and Ortega, the or take
a character is a lot more. I feel like she
would be actually on the spectrum character of like being
so hyper focused and so like over the top, like
unable to excude emotions as where Richie's character just didn't
want to. It was kind of like one of those
(10:40):
one felt like a choice, one felt like a diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
If you can, if you can go there.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Right right, that's a quote, that's the quote of the episode.
Well do you remember, like when did you see the
nineties movie?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh, I was definitely younger. It's definitely during the times
of was after I want to say Casper, which we
all loved everything because Devin Sawa. We loved Devin Sawa
and then like fell in love with the ghost.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Apparently. I was pretty young.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I was eleven, and Christina Ricci would have been eleven
as well. I think we were the same age. And
by the way, I do love the resurgence of Christina
Ricci coming back full swing into the acting world because.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
She's always been great to me.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So the three films that I know her best are
The Adam's Family, Casper, and Now and Then. So for me,
I think Now and Then was the big one because
that was specifically made for I think young girls. But
then like, yeah, she was Adam's Family first and then
the other two. But what I do remember is like,
(11:45):
even though you had big names like in Jelkie Houston,
Christopher Lloyd, as in fact, one of the movies were
based on Christopher Lloyd coming back to the family, Christina
Ricci always always pulled focus, whether it was she was
the one I think investigating Christoph Lloyd actually his character
who plays Uncle Fester, who loses his memory and comes
(12:05):
back to the family. So it's like she was the
focus for all the movies even though other big name
characters were on it as well, and she was fairly
new for that.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So that's what I do remember.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
And her characters were always like pointed, like it was
dark and mysterious, but it was her character, those big eyes.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
It worked for her.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I would agree, like again, I haven't
seen it, but what I felt like when I think
of those movies, all the images I remember, all the
like random quotes I've heard people say are from Wednesday. Yeah,
And I had to resist just reading a bunch of
quotes because that character, it just bangs them out, like yes.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yes, shown a witty one liner, likes things and walks away.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yes, it's amazing, Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And that's kind of the thing why people love this
character so much, because she has been the source of
a lot of feminist articles and so many people over
the years have cosplayed her. The second I saw this
new show, I was like, oh, yeah, next year at
dragon Con, this is it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
This is gonna be.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Huge, all of them. Yes, yeah, and I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
There's like iconic looks. I get it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And I do think one of the reasons she really
resonated with a lot of people, and a lot of
women and girls is that she is the opposite of
how young girls are typically portrayed in our media, which
we've talked about a lot in the show, Like there
are so many juxtapositions with her because pigtails, for instance,
are usually associated with innocent young girls. But she does
(13:36):
not behave that way. She doesn't beave how you expect.
She leans into the strange. She is quote not emotional,
which we'll return to in a minute. But she's just
kind of like the opposite of what we're used to
seeing and much of our media when it comes to
that type of character. From Black Girl Nerds, specifically about
(13:57):
the nineties version of this character quote, she's not nice,
she's not sweet, and she's not sorry. Wednesday Adams is blunt, cynical, sarcastic,
and has the most enviable, resting bitch face, none of
which she has any intention of apologizing for. That's right,
when unsuspecting people dole out the usual garbage of you
should smile more, Wednesday asserts herself firmly and defiantly refuses
to smile on command, a brilliant example for every young
(14:20):
girl told to make herself look friendly and approachable, because
God forbid, women appear the least bit intimidating. Although she
is white, cis presumably straight female. She doesn't use her
privilege as an excuse, but rather as a tool to
amplify the voices of those who find it much harder
to be heard. And then this is from bitch Flicks,
What does it mean to be a little girl? There's
(14:41):
so much cultural baggage associated with female childhood. On the
one hand, little girls are pure and innocent and needing
of protection. They're the emotional backdrop of a thousand action movies.
The father must get home and save his darling little girl.
On the other hand, little girls are threatening, They're creepy,
They're the demons of a thousand horror movies. The family
union must save itself from the imprecations of a terrifying
(15:04):
little girl who wants to destroy them. And then there's
Wednesday Adams. She's another thing entirely, and Wednesday is still
really really threatening.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's right threatening.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Part of why I loved these movies so much as
a kid was because Wednesday, far from being a delicate
flower or even playing second fiddle to her brother, is
arguably the most dangerous character in the whole story. She
has a sense of apathy and morbid misery mixed in
with a violent streak and superhuman strength. She's very threatening,
especially to everyone she views as well.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
That's threat.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I would say that if she fears anything, it's becoming normal,
and that's a powerful message, the idea that the biggest
thing we had to fear is not abnormality, but the
loss of what makes us distinct. It's especially poignant coming
from Wednesday, because what makes her distinct is so well distinctive. Yes, yes,
And as we said, she's very, very antisocial, and she
(15:58):
has so many great dark, dark at one liners, and
it's kind of comical and entertaining to see a young
girl reject so much of societal norms to talk about
these huge literary figures, to quote them like's.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It was funny to see the juxtaposition.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Of her and her roommate, who a lot of people ship,
by the way, in the new show.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, apparently Ortega doesn't two. I don't know if
she's just like feeding into the frenzy.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
But uh it made yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
One of the things I think is interesting because in
what I remember about the nineteen ninety one movies, and
someone can correct me, but there is a really problematic
scene nineteen ninety one in which they are playing Native
Americans and cowboys essentially, but Wednesday makes this comment about
how the pilgrims slaughtered essentially all of the Native Americans
(16:47):
and it is their fault that they brought in disease
and like they tricked the man.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Like she says this, and everybody's like, oh.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
My god, you know, like making a comitic scene, as
well as the fact that in the New Wednesday they
talk about the problematic issues with chocolate and how they
use enslaved peoples and the Germans used in slave peoples
to gather all this chocolate and massacred a whole community
for chocolate. And I found that funny because like, these
are the things that we know Wenesday does. She's going
(17:15):
to take what white people, and essentially it is white
people would want as a celebration to be decimated with
the truth, like the level of the problematic issues with
that subject that people, the white people.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Were trying to celebrate. So I did appreciate those things.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
That was a couple of the things that like poked
out of my mind when it comes to the fact that.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
She was making sure you knew the truth whether you
liked it or not. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, And that's kind of one of the things that
I think is really interesting about this character. Why I
think so many people like her is she doesn't so
many of us for reasons We've talked about, for reasons
I totally understand, and I've done, like you do that
thing for safety, Like you're like, oh, I don't want
to speak up because it's not safe for me to do.
So it's fun to watch a character be like no,
and she's danger like they said, like you don't mess
(18:01):
with her. So it's really like rewarding to kind of
get to live that moment of oh, I wish I
could do that, like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Really live it.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
And then I do love so many things aimed at
teenage girls, and I think this is changing, and it
has been changing for a while, but for so long
was just like so focused on the romance part and
so focused on like the thing she'd be writing in
her diary is, oh, why won't this guy notice me?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's like the last thing on her mind.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's not that she's like if something comes her way,
she's not kind of interested, but that's just not her thing,
Like that's the bet on the back burner she's got
all these other things.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Are right, that's definitely nineteen ninety one. Wednesday didn't care
about boys boys.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Right, And I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I appreciate I liked seeing the comparison of her like
her in the room mate, where the roommate's like, I
have my blog and I'm writing about.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
This and this and this, and Wednesday's just like let
this thing. Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Here is a quote from the Guardian, especially for a
teenager with a kid friendly rating. Wednesday speaks with the
critical self awareness and acumen of your textbook byronic hero,
a literary architect commonly associated with Heathcliff of Emily Bronte's
Wuthering Heights, or more recently, Gossip Girls, Chuck Bass and
even Sylvie. They're your clever, morose, condescending types, dangerously blessed
(19:20):
with irresistible good looks and saddled the baggage of past trauma.
Wednesday's trauma is the death of her pet Scorpion, who
was murdered when she was six. She's sence bowed to
never cry again.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
That was hard, That was mean.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It was mean.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I did I want to come back and talk about
this because a lot of articles have come out about
because of the popularity of the show about why we
love women who hate us?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So I do want to come.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Back and talk about Oh lord, no, I think it'll
be interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I think be funny. I would argue in the new show.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
She is somewhat of what a mainstream media person would
call Mary Sue. I have a whole lot of thoughts
about this, and you can listen to our past episode
about that. But like good at everything other than human interaction,
and everyone loves her. But again I don't think there's
anything wrong with that necessarily, And dudes get away with
that Scott free without a sexist moniker being attached to them,
(20:12):
So just to put that out there. She also has
like psychic powers, which I think has gone off and
on throughout her her run. She can play the cello,
can speak multiple languages, convince she's pretty awesome.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And an archer in all of the movies.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's the archer. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
One thing that they didn't really resolve in this season
of the show. I haven't seen any of the other things,
and I saw some people kind of complain about this,
But there was a tense mother daughter relationship in the
show where Wednesday did not want to be like her mother,
kind of felt pressure to be like her, very much like.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
A teenage pushing away, don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I've heard that that was kind of a departure.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, that's never a thing.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
The mother never really cares and the daughter never really
cares for her mother's approval. Actually, everything she did she
got her mother's approval essentially, And it's true the Wednesday one,
she everything she did. Mother was proud because it was
all that dark and morose type of conversation and they're
very proud of that. The only thing that the mother,
(21:14):
Catherine Sada Jones, which was I did not realize she
was going to play this until I watched it, is
that she wants her daughter's affections. Yeah, that's not a
thing right in the other movies, I kind of separates
the two of them mistigially.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah. Yeah, So we could come back.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And maybe talk about that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Later.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I do also think this is an interesting uh in
that activist around the world where you unfortunately could not
be there where I read listener mail Samantha I did.
I mentioned a quote about I seen from a famous
author who is saying like, essentially, once you start to
break apart characters for that are intended for children audiences,
(22:10):
as an adult.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Everything falls apart.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And I do think this was a really interesting example
of where Wednesday's like, well, I've been somebody's trying to
kill me, and.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I've been like all this stuff of this stuff, and
they're like, oh great, it's going well, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It was a fun flip on that that whole idea and.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Then going back to something you said earlier.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
There has been discussion about how Wednesday's anti social behaviors
could be coded as autism or something on the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Here's another quote from The Guardian.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Only when a conventionally beautiful, non weird person performs weirdness
is this palatable to quote normal people? According to one commentary,
the parent of an autistic child actually quote weird people
get bullied, sidelined or placed outside of the zone of
real friendships, and I agree. I think this is one
of the reasons the character hits with so many people
who feel like outcasts in one way or another. But
realistically it wouldn't play out like this again right.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
As an adult to be fair into this series, specifically
the very beginning scene which she's expelled from a regular school.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
They are the outcast there.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
She gets expelled, which that's why her brother gets bullied constantly.
She comes to a school for wayward people like people
with powers, so that behavior is not so off putting
in a school like that. I think someone with a
spectrum that has that typic if she was on the spectrum,
as I was saying, I'm like, if I was watching
(23:35):
this clinically, I would think that she was on the
spectrum with high functioning all of these things and more
OCD than anything else, because her hyper focus is very obvious,
to the point that she does not care who she
runs over, which was part of the conversation in that
she's in an environment where she success. She's successful because
she can do all of these things really really well
(23:57):
in a school that is an outsider.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So right would she have been so outsided? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Right, that's a good point. That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And another thing is like she's she's a really fun character,
but she is pretty toxic. Like, Okay, we're putting in
our real world things, right, it doesn't necessarily need to be.
But she's definitely a friend I would drop. I would
drop her. Very fun to watch. Christina Ricci said of
her Wednesday, was allowed to be just who she was.
(24:26):
She's never asked to change or compromise or hide who
she is.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And actually there's there was.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
A whole piece CNN just released yesterday about why in
the world did this dance take off so much? And
that was one of their big points, was like, it's
because she essentially was she was doing the dance like
nobody's watching but did not care at all.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
She was being herself.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Absolutely and also retro is coming back in. That was
like a retro interpreted dance.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
It was, it was. It was very unpredictable. That's what
I would say.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
From Slat. Here's a quote. Sure, there are problems with this.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
For one, it assumes that stoicism, a more stereotypically masculine trade,
is preferred. The feminine position on the emotional gender binary
leans toward expressiveness and melodrama, and the cliche that women
can't control their emotions and is often weaponized against them.
How many times have women been deemed too emotional to
do something like Romona Country mass swooning over deadpan women
implies that expressive, vivacious women are somehow not in control.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Quite the opposite.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
There's bravery and merit and being as passionate or allowed
as you want to be, knowing it could be spit
back at you in some silly gender debate.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
It means someone has the guts to let you know them.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then one final quote from the Guardian, the enduring
appeal of characters like this an admittedly toxic outcast with
inherently good intentions is the desire for every weirdo to
feel seen on TV. Wednesday's formula may be flawed, but
fantasy is the point in an idealized world where your
well timed barbes and lack of interest in others' approval
made you impervious to bullies and the caretaker of your
(25:56):
fellow misfits. Who wouldn't want to be Wednesday Adams. Yes, yeah, yep,
that's what we're.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Kind of talking about.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Like, yeah, in this fantasy world, it'd be great if
you just say what you want, protect the misfits fantastic.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And can shoot in po and era, yes, and.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Can shoot a bow and arrow confence.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Slipping and she lost. Though I did like it.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I liked that too.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That was unpredicted, that was not what I expected.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, I liked that too, But also yeah, I like
I like I said, I want to come back and
revisit this deadpan woman thing because I don't think it's wrong.
I think it's really fun to see a character like
this who is stoic and all those things. But there
is we can't ignore that. Yeah, that's typically more of
a masculine thing, and right, all of this seems like.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
It's mel gaze and I speaking of that, I definitely
saw a TikTok. And when men write women being strong,
yes literally like stoic, deadpan and being angry but like
seating but fighting the type of and if you're feminine,
that's not a heroin right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so we'll have to come back and talk about that.
I do think that these characters are wonderful and I
think that should be a a fine thing to.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Do, but we can't. Yeah, there's so much other stuff,
so much other stuff in the background. But yeah, this
is a really fun one to research, and.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I honestly this is a longer one of these episodes,
and I narrowed it down, like.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
A lot of things.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
About this, So maybe we'll come back in one day
revisit it. There's so much out there if you want
to read more about her. But she's Yeah, she was
a fun character to research.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I liked it.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
In the meantime. I do got a lot of character
just coming up. But if you've got one that's burning
in the back of your brain, listeners, please let us know.
You can email us Stephania mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at most step Podcasts,
or on Instagram at stuff When Never Told You.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Thanks as always to our super producer christ Do you.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Know another incredible woman?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yes, indeed, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When
I Ever Told you the production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcast from My Heart Radio, you can check out the
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or regulusen to your favorite
shows
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