July 31, 2024 • 47 mins
The world of private investigators has long been obscured - and male dominated. Private investigators and hosts of the podcast Private Eyes shed some light on the realities of the job and how the industry is changing.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
I Never Told You production of I Hearted You, and
today we are so excited to be joined by Private
Investigators and new podcasters on upcoming show Private Eyes. Barry
(00:27):
and Jen, welcome so much. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yay, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yes, I'm excited too. I'm excited too.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I have to say, the thought of having you on
here is mayde consider a lot of like my digital
footprint and all of.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
These things.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I got weirdly nervous about, like I don't know who
would investigate me.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But anyway, well we know where got you are ready?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
It's like I have a podcast where I'm like telling
my whole life.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
But that was really a secret.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I know, I know, but ex said, we don't know
her fanfake author names.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
You can figure that out for me. That would be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Wait did you say you know a lot about me?
Because that's also like, but there's ten fifteen thousand of
like samanthemic vains, which I found out later.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
It was like, why is there so many that I'm
a secret?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Okay, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
All right, well can you both introduce yourselves to our audience.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
Sure, I'm Barry Kroll and I'm General's In.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, and you're both private investigators. Can you tell us
how how that came to be? How did that become
something you did?
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Okay, well I'll start with that, And so how did
how did I come to be a private investigator. It
wasn't really by design. It was not something that I
ever thought that I would do, although I kind of
I could see. Let's put it this way, when I
meet people from high school and they find out that
(02:10):
I'm doing this now, they all say they're not.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Surprised, which I don't know if I should be happy or.
Speaker 6 (02:14):
Upset about, because I was a little bit I don't
want to say stalker ish, but I was very shy
in high school, and when my girlfriend and I did
not get invited to parties or things like that, we
sometimes found ourselves just taking a walk by those places.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Listening in, finding out what's going.
Speaker 6 (02:34):
On where we weren't. And so I think I've kind
of always had that in my nature, but I certainly
didn't think I was going to make a career out
of it. So I worked for corporate for a number
of years, and when I had my son, I thought
for sure I was going to be a stay at
home mom. I just thought, it's going to be delightful.
I'm going to take naps, I'm not gonna have to
(02:56):
get up.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And do anything.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
It's going to be so great. And it wasn't like
that at all.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It was not like that. I found myself feeling very disconnected.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
I didn't have a lot of friends that had children
at the time, so I was kind of alone, and
I kind of.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Really felt I was missing work.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
I missed working, so I was lucky that my old
employer was able to It was like before hybrid was
popular and even happening.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
They allowed me to do.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Like two days at home and like one day was travel,
and that was great. It was fine until the unit disbanded,
and then I found myself without a job, and I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Really thinking of anything particular.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
And one day I was driving my son around hoping
he'd take a nap, like just driving aimlessly around town,
and I happened to notice I had this weird knack
for memorizing license plates and knowing car models and things
like that. And I saw a friend of mine driving
around town and I saw her Zoom buy and I
called her, but I said, Stephanie, wy aren't your at work?
What are you doing driving around? And she said, might
(04:02):
just go to be a private investigator already, That's.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Exactly what I'm going to do. And like, I literally
went home that.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
Afternoon and I had no expectations about what that even was.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
What did it mean to be a private investigator? So
I've made a bunch of phone calls.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
I was going through the phone book and I called
a bunch of guys and some of them hung up
on me, and some of them like, you're a girl,
you've never been in law enforcement? Click ack click. And
I was lucky enough to find a guy who happened
to be in the next town over from me, who
was basically like, I'm not really hiring anybody right now.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Can you type? And I said I can.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
And I was like, oh god, I don't want to
be a secretary, but whatever, I just want to see
what this is all about. And I said, yeah, I
can type, and he said, well that's perfect because I
have a dyslexic secretary.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And I said, well this is going to be fantastic.
I could tell already. And I went in. I met
him and he's like you know, I don't usually hire people.
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
He's like, but you're really enthusiastic. There's just something about
you that I think that you'd be really good at this.
He's like, do you want to go do surveillance this weekend?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And I was like, hell yes.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
One of the guys took me out, and that day
in the field was like the best day of my life.
And granted it was a job that like nothing happened
on the assignment and they were just sitting in the
car for hours. Maybe we filled somebody one place, and
I was sold. I was in love and I never
looked back. And then he ended up retiring. I stayed
(05:28):
with him for a long time until I qualified to
get my own license, and I ended up he wanted
to retire. He went off to Florida, and I took
over the business, kind of made it my own. And
it was a couple of years into that that Miss
Jennifer came on the scene, and that was lucky day.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
She knew me in high school, so she could buy
a vouch for the fact. Oh Barry was shy in
high school. But I'll tell you she was a couple
of grades above me and thanks.
Speaker 7 (05:59):
For letting everybody only a couple, yeah right right, So yes,
we went to the same high school and her and
her friends were like the cool girls, you know, and
in our high school, when you were a senior, you
were allowed to go to lunch.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And I was.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
Like, you know, sitting there in the lunchroom, smiling like
just thing like, oh, I love those girls are so cool.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And then they started bringing me out to lunch with them.
That's kind of how we met, and that, you know,
and that's how we met.
Speaker 8 (06:34):
And I heard all her stories and funny things about her,
what her and her friends used to do at the
parties and stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But as as we got older.
Speaker 8 (06:44):
We you know, we went our separate ways and with work, college,
her getting married and having children. But this job actually
brought us back together. I was in sales for a
really long time. I sold very large contracts and obviously
a very prominent male dominant world. Of those guys signing
(07:07):
the checks, they were all men. And I spent probably
about ten years in the industry. And as I started
noticing in the beginning, the guys would love to.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Hear my stories.
Speaker 8 (07:19):
I was a big athlete, full scholarship to play softball
at Seaton Hall University. You know, they would love that
they talked about my sports. But then as the years
were getting as I was putting in my years, I
would see the young the girls coming in. They were
getting younger, they were getting prettier, their skirts were getting shorter.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
And that just was not my vibe. As I went to.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
Different trade shows and things like that, I was noticing
that these girls were doing things or just putting themselves
in positions to get those signed contracts. And I was
sitting here in those sports stores worries. Weren't really fun
for these guys anymore. You know, they wanted more, and.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
That's not me.
Speaker 8 (08:05):
So I said, you know, I'm sick and tired of
being in sales that abuse and also setting unrealistic goals.
It just put a bad sour taste in my mouth.
I utilize social media and I just put it out there.
I says, does anybody you have a job for me.
I'm willing to do anything. I want to try something different.
Speaker 9 (08:27):
Ring, ring, Ring.
Speaker 8 (08:28):
I get a call from Barry and then here we
are nine years later, and this says, it's a dream
come true that I never dreamt.
Speaker 9 (08:38):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I love it.
Speaker 8 (08:40):
I always I couldn't picture myself doing anything else.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
It's it's just I pictured for doing it.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
I know I have very good I literally I'm like,
I could so see Jen doing this, and I think
she's going to be great. Yeah, and she's amazing. Well,
she taught me everything.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I know.
Speaker 9 (08:59):
I love this teach few things too.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
I love that, Like because with that, seeing that she
needed a job that you're like, Okay, these are.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
The skills that I saw. What what are these skills that.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
You're like, yes, this is that she's going to make
an amazing PI.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well. Number one, she said she would do anything.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
To do.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You literally have to do anything.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
And everything in this field. You know, I knew her personality.
I knew that she was a lot of fun. I mean,
we're hard working, hard, laughing over here. I mean that's
that's basically how we run the show. We're not we're
not corporate at all. We're pretty easy going that way.
But there are certain things about this type of career,
this field that aren't really negotiable that you have to
(09:42):
be able to do, and one of that is being
able to do anything. And I knew she could do anything.
And I knew that her look was fantastic. She is
able to really take on any persona pretty much, and
that's another quality that you have to have. The other
things that are really important, like having some kind of
(10:03):
instinct and being able to to do detective work so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That wasn't sure, but she was amazing.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
We hone those skills and she's great, you know, attention
to detail, all of those things that they make a
good private investigator. And number one of those skills probably
most important is tenacity. And she was a big sports
star in high school. I knew that about her. She
was a hard worker, So I mean, how could she
be great?
Speaker 9 (10:32):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I told you. I love her. She's so sweet.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Oh I love this because I hadn't really thought about
it before. But a lot of people I look back
in high school, they'd be online, you know, on Facebook
and stuck.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So okay, the skills they do start, yeah at that age.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, that big said, can you break down what exactly
your job generally entails, because I feel like there are
a lot of misconceptions that the media has fetas about this, oh.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
One hundred misconceptions just you know.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
Jen kind of touched on this talking about her her
previous career in sales and it being a very male
dominated industry. It's the same is true for the private
detective field. It is and I hate to say it,
and I don't really mean this in a bad way.
It just turned out that way. It's really was meant
to be a good old boys club, so to speak.
You know, I think that the biggest misconception uh that
(11:40):
people have, Well, actually there's like two. There's a fantasy
one where you are magnum p I or a Colombo.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Or you're a guy and you drive a hot.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
Car, or you're wearing a trench coat and you have
a cigar and you're peering through the bushes, or you're
you're you know, you're, you're whatever. And I think that
that's the first miss conception.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's got to be a guy, and it's got to
fit one of those one of those scenes. You have
to have that look.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
Or you're from prior law enforcement, you've had law enforcement experience,
you are a cop, you're a detective, you're on the beat,
whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That that's what makes a great gum shoe, and it's
really not.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
It's somebody that is able to be resourceful tenacious.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's what makes a great private detective.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
And a lot of people are really shocked when I
tell them I'm a private investigator. They're like, what, Oh
my god, No, you're not. You don't look like one.
The first thing we say, you don't look like one.
I say, well, that's what makes me good.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I don't look like that, all right.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
So I think there is definitely While it is a
very male dominated field, there's women in the field that
are fantastic, and I wish there were more of them
because I've been doing this twenty years and it still
seems like we are so lagging in this industry in
terms of great women that do this.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Work, and I'd love to see more.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons why
we're starting this podcast is to get more people to understand.
And there's a lot of young females now that are
going to school and they want to get into criminology,
but they don't want to be a police officer, and
this is a great avenue for them. There's so many
(13:23):
different branches that they could take from here, right, they
can start their own business like Mary, And you know,
I just.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Feel like there's just not enough exposure into the real
lives of private investigators.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So what is the job all about?
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Right? And I find that interesting. So within this industry,
I know you've been in part of it for a while,
have you seen change? Have you seen the growth that
you think there needs to be to include more women?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Definitely?
Speaker 6 (13:51):
I mean I definitely think so with with especially with
social media, and I think that you know, I see
on LinkedIn there's a lot more women, but just in
comparison to the amount of men that do it, there
just isn't And I think people have this misconception that
you have to be you know, go to school for criminology,
(14:13):
you have to be in law enforcement, you have to
you know.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Whatever the case may be. And that's not true.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
And we kind of want to spread that word that
you could just be a girl who studied psychology and
you're really interested in human behavior and you can have
a whole business that kind of encompasses all of the
things that you're interested in.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
And people don't know that human behavior is what we
see every day.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yes, So I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Let's say I came to you, I had an issue,
I wanted to hire you. How does that look? How
does that break down? What does your job look like?
In a really general way.
Speaker 6 (14:54):
Okay, so in a general way, somebody comes to me
with a problem. Let's just say for sake of this discussion.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It's a cheating partner.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
They would reach out to me, either you know, call
the office, or they might meet me on the street
or any kind of random place where find out that
I'm a private investigator and they want to talk.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They would just reach out.
Speaker 6 (15:16):
And the first thing I'd want to do is just
discuss number one, why they think that their partner's cheating
on them. We go over the behaviors, We analyze their
routine and the things that they're doing, because I want
people to feel confident in themselves and their feelings and
their intuition. Because a lot of the times, especially when
(15:37):
someone is facing, you know, a cheating partner and they
start feeling uneasy about the relationship, everyone says, oh, you're crazy,
he's so nice, or you're crazy she's so in love with.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You that that's just crazy. Why are you thinking that?
Speaker 6 (15:50):
And anytime somebody's telling you to doubt your feelings and
that you're crazy, it's a terrible thing. So I don't
want people to feel that way, so we'll have a
discussion about why they think these things are happening. And
on the rare occasions where somebody might be feeling paranoid
or they're they're you know, feeling like something is going
(16:11):
on and you know, they're they're unsure of their feelings.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know, that could be the case that there really
is nothing going on.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
They're just you know, losing confidence in the relationship for
whatever reason, maybe.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Something that happened in their past.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
An investigation will will bring truth to that as well.
So what we would do is we would discuss those things,
the patterns, behaviors, then implement a plan for some type
of investigation strategy. And in most cases, for a cheating partner,
it's usually surveillance where we will watch them for a
number of hours or a number of days, whatever it
(16:45):
takes for my client to feel comfortable and secure that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
That person is or is not cheating.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
And typically, and this is why I tell all clients
because it's been you know, historically, how our investigations have
kind of panned out that it's some one barring the
fact that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Maybe it's a long distance relationship.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
If someone is having an affair and their partner is
living in the in the area where they live, they
will usually see that person within three days, within three
days of doing surveillance, that will happen.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And I got to tell you, and I think you
can agree with this.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
When somebody does suspect their partner of cheating and everything
is lining up and I think they're cheating, and Jen
thinks they're cheating, we see that like on the first
day it happens, it happens, so, you know, so I think.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
That's typically how it will go down, right.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
And on the opposite end of that, sometimes we're like,
they're not cheating, and we see that right away too.
Not right away, but after a few days we're and
it's starting.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
To look a little efficient.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
E's singly enough. It's not that that usually happens, and
not because our client is, you know, feeling paranoid, but
it's because our client is doing something that they shouldn't
and they're kind of pretty rejecting, if you can believe it,
on their partner. They maybe want out of that relationship
and they're like, oh God, maybe maybe an investigator will
(18:07):
help me out of this relationship and show me that
they're Cheating's that does happen.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Unfortunately, that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Well, how many of these cases, because I'm sure you
have many are typically things like affairs or what types
of cases do you generally have?
Speaker 6 (18:23):
So the majority of our cases we do a lot
of surveillance and undercover work.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
We're very heavy.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
In that that part of the the the industry, but
a lot of that has to do with personal injury cases.
We do a lot of surveillance on people that were injured,
either by a doctor or slip and fall on a
supermarket or slipping on a menu, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And you know, they're they're.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Suing somebody some stuff like that, right, and they're and
they're claiming some sort of some sort of injury, and
that needs to be fleshed out. They want to see
are they really as injured as they say they are.
And what's unique about this job, we're not looking to
get the money shot or catch the guy.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, I love.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
This job just being able to see both sides, and
both sides are helpful to everybody because we have people
on the defense who want to know how badly this
person was injured, and you know, we're thinking they're probably
going to be happy to hear that they're running marathons,
but they're also just as happy to hear they're really
(19:30):
as injured as they say.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
They are, and it alleviates a lot of questions for them.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
It helps them to develop a settlement strategy, you know,
a trial strategy, So all sides are important, So it's
a critical component to those things. So we do that
type of surveillance work, surveillance of cheating spouses. We do
a lot of post matrimonial work, which also involves a
lot of background and records research and surveillance when people
(19:56):
are collecting alimony, but they're really not entitled to that
anymore because they they are in a new relationship that
is tantamount to marriage, and in that case, the payer
is not obligated to pay alimony anymore. Child custody investigations
like high level background investigations, social media research, all of
(20:17):
those fun things.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Okay, so I saw that you actually did some for
TV as well about finding your father. Was I didn't
realize I was, I was researching. I was like, wait,
what is this interesting?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
I did find that I found that it was found
that interesting. What was your experience with that specifically?
Speaker 6 (20:50):
I loved it yeah, it was great. I mean, to
to bring people together. One father was homeless, found him
in a homeless shelter, so that I mean, it's it's
just very gratifying.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And that's that's other work that we do. We get
calls like that all the time. You want to find
their birth mother, they want to find their sister.
Speaker 9 (21:10):
What about the one that wanted us to find their ashes?
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Oh yeah, we actually, I swear we actually, Yeah, somebody
somebody had a relative's ashes and they wanted us to
try to find them to get the ashes from. Did
you no, we listen, we found cats all right.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
When i'm when i'm if, I'm not like super busy
and I really want to be creative and and want
something good to talk about and be like we'll take
that cat job, sure, why not?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
This this is okay, let's do this.
Speaker 9 (21:49):
Tives too on the side.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I love that you're all encompassing.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Yeah, well, it kind of reminds me of like my
previous job was in social work and one of the
things that you have to be like a jack of
all trades because if you have to be able to
go through this and it sounds like a part of
your job could also be like counseling. How often do
you feel like you have to be a cornerstone for
people during these really all theous difficult conversations.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So let's put it this way.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
Before I had an office administrator, I would be on
the phone with people before I knew any better, when
I was like starting this business, and I would answer
my phone and right off the bat, somebody's telling me,
you know, their entire life story and what should they do.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And of course I was like, I'm all into it.
I'm like, well, this is what you should do. How
are you feeling it?
Speaker 6 (22:37):
A lot of it is counseling, and it's to a
great extent, And while I'm not a therapist, I can
I can draw from my professional experience of my other
clients things that they did to.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Improve their life and move on or not move on.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
I mean, that's a big part of the conversation when
I have a client who again, let's go back to
to a cheating spouse, for example, depending on the outcome
of our investigation, the trajectory of their whole life may
have to change. Everything that they knew could be different
or not. And that's okay. Just because somebody is cheating
(23:15):
doesn't mean you got to pack your bags and go.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Every situation is different.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
There's a lot of context, and it takes too to
make it and to to break it. And I really
encourage people to dig deep and think about those things
and before they engage a private investiator to have a plan.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And a plan doesn't mean a plan to act.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
It could be a plan not to necessarily react right away,
but to know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That is the key.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Just to have some control that you weren't crazy, you
weren't seeing things, you weren't imagining it.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
This is what's really happening.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Barry got me this great surveillance video that just confirms
my feelings.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I'm going to put it in my back pocket it
and I'm ahead of the game. I don't have to
do anything now.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
They find some solace in that that knowing they weren't crazy,
they're in control and they can do whatever they need
to do at any point in time.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You know, I don't don't encourage.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
People necessarily take action, but I encourage them to think,
to think about a plan, to think about possible actions
based on just my my professional experience.
Speaker 8 (24:26):
And you do the same with the people that, yeah,
absolutely and you know, one of the things is just
listening to Barry speak to the people that call in.
You know, she just provides them such good advice, you know,
and she'll be honest with them too, like very honest
and I am not a good liar, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 9 (24:45):
That's the number one thing in this job is that.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
That's why I had no friends and I on our friend.
Speaker 9 (24:52):
We have to you know, we're honest.
Speaker 8 (24:54):
Obviously the people are subjects aren't sometimes, but you know,
Barry will say, listen, you know this this isn't for you,
or this is for you, and you know, if you're
thinking these things, then something must be going on or
A hard part of this job.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
Is being sensitive to people's people's feelings, you know, because
you might hear a story and that is freaking crazy.
This lady's out of her mind. And sometimes we get
people that call that that are are out there. They
have questions about people. You know, they think a dentists
implanted something in their their tooths so that they're being
(25:34):
tracked remotely there. I mean, we've had a lot of
calls like that, things about aliens. You want to be
sensitive to people, but at the same time, yeah, you know,
you have to have that tack to try to.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Send them a different avenue. So it's not something that's
kind of like the impossible for us to help you with.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
But here's somebody that, you know, here's a bugsweep guy
that you can call and that might help you.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know, you think that.
Speaker 9 (25:58):
They all think that they're being listened.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
So you know, I've seen a lot of TikTok creators,
especially one specific one that's an investigator, and I see
her doing the cameras and watching and she has a
lot of times been like there's nothing here, but you know,
really really fascinating. But with that, with the fact that
there's so many crossovers, how did you what made you
think podcasts? Yes, we need to take what we do,
(26:23):
our stories and put it on a podcast because you
are I think one of the first ones that I've
actually heard of doing this specific topic, which I love.
But with this specific like women in the industry, what
does this look like, let's have a conversation about why
it's important that private investigators exist and why you might
need one as well as how do you get involved?
So what made you say, yes, this is the platform
(26:45):
for us.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
So my thought process behind this was and you brought
up the Oxygen show Finding my Father. And ever since
I started this business, for the last i'd say fifteen years,
contacted left and right from producers, different production companies, different
networks wanting to do a TV show about women private investigators.
(27:09):
And this show all these years later, whether it featured
me or somebody else, does not exist.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It just doesn't exist.
Speaker 6 (27:18):
And the reason why is, you know, networks want to
show the real deal. They want to see surveillance, real surveillance.
There's there's no way to gauge or manage how long
it will take to get to an outcome. It could
take hours, it could take days, it could take weeks,
even any kind of years.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That you're doing. Yes, we came here, We've gone for years,
exactly right. So so that.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Always that always bothered me, that it just never got
the exposure.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And I wanted the exposure to be real.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
A lot of times, a lot of networks wanted me
to be crazy, and they wanted me to expose all
of my you know, my.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Clients and my stories. I could never do that.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
I'm a real deal private investigator. So I thought, like,
what we need an angle to expose people to this
industry where we get to tell our stories, and some
of them are crazy.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
A lot of them are crazy.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
We see a lot of crazy things that have nothing
to do with our job. But while you're sitting on
surveillance or doing whatever you're doing, you see it all
from from like drug deals to like just I don't know,
people making out, fighting everything, throw the bottles at people
in the middle of like early in the morning, fight,
(28:32):
people picking their buttons, picking their no I mean, all
kinds of terrible things, like anything that when you think
someone's not watching, should I do this, don't do it?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Somebody's probably watching you. But anyway, we see it all.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
But so I thought, like this, there's a platform that
I felt like we could be creative and have that
creative outlet and really tell people about what we do
and also how does that affect our lives?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
How does the.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
Outcome and investigation affect our client's lives. So it's not
just about the crazy stories that people want to see.
I mean, there'll be plenty of that, but it's also
the tips. It's also you know, what happened to you know,
to Pam whose husband you know, was living a double life.
We actually talk about what happened to Pam after and
how she was able to move on and how she
(29:20):
found success after being you know, a stayed home mom
without a career, and where is she now after all
the terrible things that have happened to her?
Speaker 9 (29:29):
How did she change her life.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
For the better.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
So it's it's an interesting look seeing all sides, all
sides of the story because there's always you know, the truth,
three sides, yours and mine, what's really happening. So we
kind of that's kind of the focus of our lens,
so to speak, of what we talk about.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
So when is the podcast coming out? What is all
of the details that we need to know so we
can get ahead of it, subscribe to it, all those things.
Speaker 8 (29:59):
Yes, we actually were launching on August seventh, and we
are will be on Apple and Spotify, and you can
also see a video component of our show on our
YouTube channel.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Oh okay, that's so everybody get that on your schedule
because we're not done talking. I just wanted to make
sure we put that in there, and then we're gonna
put it at the end this again, but you know,
just go ahead and get that in our minds because
we need to remember August.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Seventh, it got it, got it.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
So, you know, I find it fascinating because Pi's is
so interesting because it's not just you know, yes, you've
got the kind of like the tea bits that you're like, oh,
I want to know about this, but you also kind
of go down like almost a true crime route as well.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Do you see an overlap in that for your show?
Speaker 6 (30:43):
I think, I mean the investigation component, what it is
going through, just the strategy, going through the steps like
coming up. I mean, you always have to although you
know we're we are not biased in the sense of
we know somebody did this or we know somebody did that,
we have to have some kind of the or your
hypothesis to take us down certain roads to flush them out.
(31:04):
Is this the right Are we going down the right path?
Or we should we be going down this path instead?
And I think, you know, the strategy of how we
do that is really interesting. I mean just even steps
to find a Facebook account of somebody that's using an alias,
how we use our databases, how we flush out relatives,
how we you know, different.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Tips and tricks like using unique names.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
Like there's a lot of Samantham mcvays out there, But
we're going to find that one relative of yours who
has this really really uncommon name that nobody else could have,
and we're gonna find them really quick on Facebook, and
then we're going to start all of their friends and
we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Go down here.
Speaker 8 (31:41):
Yeah, and then all of a sudden, boom, we find
a right and it all comes together.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
So it's it's you know, there's a lot of programs
out there that say, like, oh, we could find there's nothing.
There's no AI that can do what I do. There
just isn't And they say, I'm.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Sure it's not just me.
Speaker 6 (31:59):
I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that
are good at doing that research. That makes a great
investigator because it could take hours, if not days to
do it sometimes, and it's that tenacity that that gets
the answer. There's no AI that's going to figure out
you know, Jen is actually using the Facebook page name
I Love Cats or whatever, and you know connect it
to her. You got to go through all of those
(32:20):
channels and and find the connection. So, I mean, that's
obviously a very simple investigation.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's it's it's not.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
True crime or anything, but the methodology is the same
it's it's and that's what people find interesting.
Speaker 8 (32:35):
And sometimes we don't find a picture. Sometimes we don't
find all the full information, just a little piece. Sometimes
it just doesn't Again, we just we have to go
out on the field. And it's not so much doing
investigation through our computer, but it's actually doing investigations out
on the road, not knowing where the person looks, like,
(32:57):
where they live, like, kind of just trying to put
things together.
Speaker 9 (33:01):
You know that it's a lot of work.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
That's a great point because a lot of people think like, well,
I can find out anything on the internet, and there's
some things you just can't.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You just can't, and you have.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
To go out and you have to to actually, you know,
get in the field and pound the pavement and knock
on doors and do interviews and you know, do surveillance
on people, places and things.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And that's how you get your answers.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
You got to get through the gatekeepers. I always said,
it's one of my favorite words is to think fast.
Speaker 8 (33:29):
You know, it's coming up with a quick story to
get them to answer your question. So if I knock
on a window of an apartment building, but it's security
and I said, oh, I need to see so and so,
and my grandma made some cookies for her.
Speaker 9 (33:48):
She can't come down. Oh, she's not allowed down. I'm like, please, please,
can I go up there? I have cookies for her,
you know.
Speaker 8 (33:56):
And you just have to like learn to be quick
and fast and be creative and whatever. Sometimes that cookie
thing could take you wherever.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
But on a non existing GM, I just read that
one on the fly.
Speaker 8 (34:09):
I never did my grandma's cookies, but I use my
grandma for a lot of stilling those cookies, so it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yes, oh, yes, One thing I wanted to go back to.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
We've been talking about how this has traditionally been, both
in media and in history, a male dominated industry, but
this is changing. One thing I was thinking about when
I was imagining, like if I wanted to go to
a PI, I would want to go to a woman,
Like I feel like there would be situations, especially if
(34:45):
I'm going to cry my heart out about I don't
know this guy I think is bad news. Like, I
just feel like there's certain situations where going to a
woman I would like to have that option. Do you
feel that you've seeing that do you feel that there's
maybe a different skill set? I know you said that,
(35:07):
you know, people don't think private invest hares are women,
so therefore you kind of have that going for you.
Speaker 6 (35:14):
Interestingly enough, I mostly hear that from men that want
a female investigator because they they have conjured up in
their mind it's gonna be like a cop.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It's gonna be real detective looking, and I.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
Don't want to get caught, and I want it to
be not threatening in any way.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I think it's pretty even.
Speaker 6 (35:31):
In terms of women that have expressed I feel comfortable
talking to a woman, but men are really great with it,
and I think they kind of think that I'm going
to help them in some way, or they're feeling less
threatened by me in a sense that I'm not judging
them like another guy would like, Oh, you're letting your
wife cheat on you, buddy, Like that's pretty messing up.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You're real, you know what you know?
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Like you know.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I think that.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
At the other flip side is I've had clients who
are like.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I really need to work with you. You're a woman.
I think you're going to be great.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
There is a component there are certain men that think
they're going to control me and manipulate me in some
way to do certain things or the way they think
they want the investigation to be. So it's an interesting
dynamic being a woman and being able to know, you know,
those types of clients, and I've gotten pretty astute at
like figuring out who they are. There's certain triggering words
(36:28):
that they'll say, and I'm like, we're not doing this guy,
I don't care if he wants a woman.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
There's other women you can go and find.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
It's not going to be me, but I think there
are And I again, I think I've had this express
to me more from men clients than from women, that they.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Are more comfortable working with a woman.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
And part of it, I think being their own insecurities
and the threat to the subject that we're watching.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
That they don't want to get caught.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
They're scared, they're nervous about it, and they feel more
secure having a woman do the job.
Speaker 8 (37:00):
Yes, because nobody thinks a woman exactly following.
Speaker 6 (37:03):
They don't want to they don't want that that cop feel.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I guess she's getting kids.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Give me a lot to think about.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Oh okay, Well, as you said, a lot of this
can be very you know, heartbreaking or difficult or whatever
to share, perhaps embarrassing to share This is going to
sound like a strange question, but I've heard it all
with you. I mean, yeah, sure, now that I say that,
(37:33):
this is not even going to sound strange you at all.
But like, at the end of the investigation, do you
feel like people have closure? Like what is the feeling
that they have?
Speaker 6 (37:45):
I think for the most part, yes, there is definitely
there is definitely a sense of closure For a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
We get a lot of repeats. We get a lot
of repeats, whether one way or the other.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
So even when we have a case where we caught
their part and are cheating, they come back to us
a couple years later. And that's why it's so important
when I had that initial conversation with them to say,
you know what, don't go blowing this out of the water.
Don't take this video and run to your partner and say,
oh I got you, I got you, because you might
not leave that person might.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Say I'm going to change, Everything's going to.
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Be great, and then guess what, a year later, you're
finding yourself feeling the same way. And now they know
that you've had surveillance on them before because you showed
them the video, it's going to be that much harder
to catch them next time, So I say put it in.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Your back pocket so you really figure out where things
are going.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Well, obviously y'all see a lot, a lot, a lot
as well as you've been through a lot. I know
there were points that you had probably people threatening you
and or accusing you of being the doubtful of their relationship,
as if you had something to do with it. What
do you do for yourself to and also, this is
not a nine to five job, obviously you are constantly
having to be on looking around.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
What do you do to disconnect?
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Because I can't imagine it's that easy.
Speaker 6 (39:11):
We have you know, even when we're not in the field,
they're doing investigations, so you know, we have investigators that
report to us, so we're constantly unfortunately, and as a
business owner, you know it's it's not a nine to
five You're right, So I guess the best way to
disconnect is like the one opportunity to go on vacation
with it.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Please don't call me, please good.
Speaker 8 (39:36):
Yeah, Barry and I are always working twenty four to seven, but.
Speaker 9 (39:42):
We do that because we love it.
Speaker 8 (39:43):
This is Barry's business, so obviously it's her life and
I love it, and I love Barry, and I want
to make Barry happy, and I want our business to grow.
And I really like being exactly where I am today.
Speaker 9 (40:00):
I wish I started a long time ago with her.
Speaker 8 (40:03):
But you know, when I'm home, I we're still doing
our normal on the weekends, doing our daily activities and
at the same time answering phone calls, you know, so
it's the same thing. My wife may be like, hey, what,
I'm like, hold on a second, So what do you do?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
You do anything to you like, you have hobbies that
you do.
Speaker 9 (40:26):
I mean, I like to you know, over the years,
things have changed.
Speaker 8 (40:33):
I used to be like very into like being an
athlete and doing like obstacle course races and stuff. But
now I enjoy like my time home with you know,
my wife and my step son and going to his
wrestling matches or football or you know. That's kind of
you know, I have a big family, so you know,
spending time, you know, with them and just doing little things.
(40:56):
I live near the beach, going for a walk with
my dogs. I mean, it's just a little time to
relax and then I'm back out there. But you know,
private investigation, it's it's not just a you know, an
eight hour day, right, you know, ever know where.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
You're going to end up, how long you know your
subject is going to be out and about and you
have to stay with them.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
You know, till the end.
Speaker 8 (41:18):
Yeah, I mean I think my longest hour day was
a seventeen hour day. And my longest drive following someone
was from New Jersey to Ohio.
Speaker 9 (41:30):
Oh dang, yes, And you like really don't know.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
But I can blend into any situation. The car is
packed and loaded. So if I have to follow Barry
home right now, I can spy on her. If she
changes to go out on the boat, I can.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
I will be bored, yeah, but.
Speaker 9 (41:51):
Yeah, I'll be here.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
So essentially, you just try to grasp a moment just to.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Know. I think that's how you live your life anyway.
Speaker 6 (42:03):
You know, when things are great, you go with it
and you're happy, and you've got to try and be
in that moment and prefer not to look at my
phone or anything like that, and that I'm happy for
a minute.
Speaker 9 (42:14):
Yeah, we take turns.
Speaker 8 (42:16):
We'll say okay, we'll share, we share, we share, you
get today, I'll take all the calls and we're pretty
good about that.
Speaker 9 (42:24):
So it's a good balance.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We share.
Speaker 5 (42:27):
We share well, not that I'm asking for a specific reason,
and I don't have any plots or anything. But if
I were to need to get off the grid, what
would you say? What are the steps and things I
should be doing in order for me to be not found?
Speaker 9 (42:44):
Don't have a phone and get off social media?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Get off?
Speaker 6 (42:48):
Yeah, start off slow, no social media, that's the best
way to go. And then there's obviously other companies that
can help wipe you off all of those databases that
come up, like we see Amantham McVeigh that is, you know,
twenty years old and lives in blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah. There's there's there's products out there that
can help you work through wiping that out as much
(43:09):
as possible. I I honestly, it's it's really hard. It's
really hard.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
But social media would definitely be number one.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
You know, using certain applications on your phone, obviously the
ones that have location and tracking, you want to get
rid of those.
Speaker 9 (43:23):
Get a track phone, yeah, get a track phone.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
And you could still.
Speaker 6 (43:28):
Use your you know, your your fancy phones if you want,
but you know, just don't. I wouldn't use Siri or
Snapchat or anything that has maps and things that you know,
Google that share your location, make sure those are all
shut off.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
And I would Yeah, number one.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
Social media I think is the killer, the killer of
all things.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, it's fun for a minute and then.
Speaker 6 (43:51):
It's just just sucks it down a black hole and
everybody knows everything about you that you wish that they didn't, and.
Speaker 8 (43:57):
And people that don't know about you can find us
out about it.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
We always like remark every time we have a case
where it's like this person is just blowing up their
social media, like literally telling us where they are going.
Speaker 9 (44:11):
We're going to.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
Cape May for the weekend, and we're staying in this
hotel and I'm like, you're going to.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
This hotel and came back.
Speaker 9 (44:16):
Then I'm tagging my going off. The girl is there.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
We're watching her for like three days when I got
it with her.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
Family, she's got her room, we're all set up. Every
time that happens, I'm like, this isn't going to happen again.
These people are going to get smart. No, no, nope,
everybody's dumb.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Everybody's still dumb. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 6 (44:35):
They just cannot resist. So the first way to get
off the grid. Stop stop sharing your stuff?
Speaker 9 (44:41):
Yes, social stories, you got it?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Do that now?
Speaker 8 (44:46):
Just kidding, Well, you can't find anything out about you?
Speaker 9 (44:54):
Different story, yes, honest, a way for that.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Well, thank you so much for joining us. This has
been such a fun conversation. I know that we could
talk so much more.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
So.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
If you're welcome back anytime, fantastic. Yes, if you're ever
in Atlanta, We're always around.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I've been there. I like it.
Speaker 9 (45:18):
I've never been there, so I haven't got it out
my phone.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Actually none of our cases.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Is there cases down here?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh my gosh, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
But in the meantime before we get to meet you,
do have a new podcast. The first season's on infidelity correct, Yes,
primarily primarily all right, So can you tell the good
listeners where they can find you?
Speaker 8 (45:43):
Well, you can find us on Apple and Spotify.
Speaker 9 (45:47):
We launch on August seventh, and.
Speaker 8 (45:51):
If you want to be featured on our show so
we can talk about either your story or some advice,
you can email us at the private Eyzed podcast at
gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Do y'all have social media? We can follow.
Speaker 9 (46:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (46:05):
Our live component of the show you can see on
our YouTube channel. We also have an Instagram page, and
we also have a TikTok page all at Private eye Podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Awesome and you can contact us. You can email us
at stuffan your Mom, stuff at heeartmanu dot com. You
can find us on Twitter at moms podcast, our Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We have
a tea public store, we have a YouTube page, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Special shout out to Alex, producer of the
Private Eyzed podcast who helps set this up.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
And as always, thank you to.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Our super producer Christina, our executivedruser Mya, and our contributor Joey.
Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I
Never Told You the projection of by Heart Radio for our
podcast from our Heart Radio, You can check out the
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or if you listen to
your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
I Never Told You production of I Hearted You, and
today we are so excited to be joined by Private
Investigators and new podcasters on upcoming show Private Eyes. Barry
(00:27):
and Jen, welcome so much. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yay, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yes, I'm excited too. I'm excited too.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I have to say, the thought of having you on
here is mayde consider a lot of like my digital
footprint and all of.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
These things.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I got weirdly nervous about, like I don't know who
would investigate me.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But anyway, well we know where got you are ready?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
It's like I have a podcast where I'm like telling
my whole life.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
But that was really a secret.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I know, I know, but ex said, we don't know
her fanfake author names.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
You can figure that out for me. That would be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Wait did you say you know a lot about me?
Because that's also like, but there's ten fifteen thousand of
like samanthemic vains, which I found out later.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
It was like, why is there so many that I'm
a secret?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Okay, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
All right, well can you both introduce yourselves to our audience.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
Sure, I'm Barry Kroll and I'm General's In.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, and you're both private investigators. Can you tell us
how how that came to be? How did that become
something you did?
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Okay, well I'll start with that, And so how did
how did I come to be a private investigator. It
wasn't really by design. It was not something that I
ever thought that I would do, although I kind of
I could see. Let's put it this way, when I
meet people from high school and they find out that
(02:10):
I'm doing this now, they all say they're not.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Surprised, which I don't know if I should be happy or.
Speaker 6 (02:14):
Upset about, because I was a little bit I don't
want to say stalker ish, but I was very shy
in high school, and when my girlfriend and I did
not get invited to parties or things like that, we
sometimes found ourselves just taking a walk by those places.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Listening in, finding out what's going.
Speaker 6 (02:34):
On where we weren't. And so I think I've kind
of always had that in my nature, but I certainly
didn't think I was going to make a career out
of it. So I worked for corporate for a number
of years, and when I had my son, I thought
for sure I was going to be a stay at
home mom. I just thought, it's going to be delightful.
I'm going to take naps, I'm not gonna have to
(02:56):
get up.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And do anything.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
It's going to be so great. And it wasn't like
that at all.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It was not like that. I found myself feeling very disconnected.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
I didn't have a lot of friends that had children
at the time, so I was kind of alone, and
I kind of.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Really felt I was missing work.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
I missed working, so I was lucky that my old
employer was able to It was like before hybrid was
popular and even happening.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
They allowed me to do.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Like two days at home and like one day was travel,
and that was great. It was fine until the unit disbanded,
and then I found myself without a job, and I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Really thinking of anything particular.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
And one day I was driving my son around hoping
he'd take a nap, like just driving aimlessly around town,
and I happened to notice I had this weird knack
for memorizing license plates and knowing car models and things
like that. And I saw a friend of mine driving
around town and I saw her Zoom buy and I
called her, but I said, Stephanie, wy aren't your at work?
What are you doing driving around? And she said, might
(04:02):
just go to be a private investigator already, That's.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Exactly what I'm going to do. And like, I literally
went home that.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
Afternoon and I had no expectations about what that even was.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
What did it mean to be a private investigator? So
I've made a bunch of phone calls.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
I was going through the phone book and I called
a bunch of guys and some of them hung up
on me, and some of them like, you're a girl,
you've never been in law enforcement? Click ack click. And
I was lucky enough to find a guy who happened
to be in the next town over from me, who
was basically like, I'm not really hiring anybody right now.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Can you type? And I said I can.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
And I was like, oh god, I don't want to
be a secretary, but whatever, I just want to see
what this is all about. And I said, yeah, I
can type, and he said, well that's perfect because I
have a dyslexic secretary.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And I said, well this is going to be fantastic.
I could tell already. And I went in. I met
him and he's like you know, I don't usually hire people.
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
He's like, but you're really enthusiastic. There's just something about
you that I think that you'd be really good at this.
He's like, do you want to go do surveillance this weekend?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And I was like, hell yes.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
One of the guys took me out, and that day
in the field was like the best day of my life.
And granted it was a job that like nothing happened
on the assignment and they were just sitting in the
car for hours. Maybe we filled somebody one place, and
I was sold. I was in love and I never
looked back. And then he ended up retiring. I stayed
(05:28):
with him for a long time until I qualified to
get my own license, and I ended up he wanted
to retire. He went off to Florida, and I took
over the business, kind of made it my own. And
it was a couple of years into that that Miss
Jennifer came on the scene, and that was lucky day.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
She knew me in high school, so she could buy
a vouch for the fact. Oh Barry was shy in
high school. But I'll tell you she was a couple
of grades above me and thanks.
Speaker 7 (05:59):
For letting everybody only a couple, yeah right right, So yes,
we went to the same high school and her and
her friends were like the cool girls, you know, and
in our high school, when you were a senior, you
were allowed to go to lunch.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And I was.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
Like, you know, sitting there in the lunchroom, smiling like
just thing like, oh, I love those girls are so cool.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And then they started bringing me out to lunch with them.
That's kind of how we met, and that, you know,
and that's how we met.
Speaker 8 (06:34):
And I heard all her stories and funny things about her,
what her and her friends used to do at the
parties and stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But as as we got older.
Speaker 8 (06:44):
We you know, we went our separate ways and with work, college,
her getting married and having children. But this job actually
brought us back together. I was in sales for a
really long time. I sold very large contracts and obviously
a very prominent male dominant world. Of those guys signing
(07:07):
the checks, they were all men. And I spent probably
about ten years in the industry. And as I started
noticing in the beginning, the guys would love to.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Hear my stories.
Speaker 8 (07:19):
I was a big athlete, full scholarship to play softball
at Seaton Hall University. You know, they would love that
they talked about my sports. But then as the years
were getting as I was putting in my years, I
would see the young the girls coming in. They were
getting younger, they were getting prettier, their skirts were getting shorter.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
And that just was not my vibe. As I went to.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
Different trade shows and things like that, I was noticing
that these girls were doing things or just putting themselves
in positions to get those signed contracts. And I was
sitting here in those sports stores worries. Weren't really fun
for these guys anymore. You know, they wanted more, and.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
That's not me.
Speaker 8 (08:05):
So I said, you know, I'm sick and tired of
being in sales that abuse and also setting unrealistic goals.
It just put a bad sour taste in my mouth.
I utilize social media and I just put it out there.
I says, does anybody you have a job for me.
I'm willing to do anything. I want to try something different.
Speaker 9 (08:27):
Ring, ring, Ring.
Speaker 8 (08:28):
I get a call from Barry and then here we
are nine years later, and this says, it's a dream
come true that I never dreamt.
Speaker 9 (08:38):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I love it.
Speaker 8 (08:40):
I always I couldn't picture myself doing anything else.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
It's it's just I pictured for doing it.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
I know I have very good I literally I'm like,
I could so see Jen doing this, and I think
she's going to be great. Yeah, and she's amazing. Well,
she taught me everything.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I know.
Speaker 9 (08:59):
I love this teach few things too.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
I love that, Like because with that, seeing that she
needed a job that you're like, Okay, these are.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
The skills that I saw. What what are these skills that.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
You're like, yes, this is that she's going to make
an amazing PI.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well. Number one, she said she would do anything.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
To do.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You literally have to do anything.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
And everything in this field. You know, I knew her personality.
I knew that she was a lot of fun. I mean,
we're hard working, hard, laughing over here. I mean that's
that's basically how we run the show. We're not we're
not corporate at all. We're pretty easy going that way.
But there are certain things about this type of career,
this field that aren't really negotiable that you have to
(09:42):
be able to do, and one of that is being
able to do anything. And I knew she could do anything.
And I knew that her look was fantastic. She is
able to really take on any persona pretty much, and
that's another quality that you have to have. The other
things that are really important, like having some kind of
(10:03):
instinct and being able to to do detective work so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That wasn't sure, but she was amazing.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
We hone those skills and she's great, you know, attention
to detail, all of those things that they make a
good private investigator. And number one of those skills probably
most important is tenacity. And she was a big sports
star in high school. I knew that about her. She
was a hard worker, So I mean, how could she
be great?
Speaker 9 (10:32):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I told you. I love her. She's so sweet.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Oh I love this because I hadn't really thought about
it before. But a lot of people I look back
in high school, they'd be online, you know, on Facebook
and stuck.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So okay, the skills they do start, yeah at that age.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, that big said, can you break down what exactly
your job generally entails, because I feel like there are
a lot of misconceptions that the media has fetas about this, oh.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
One hundred misconceptions just you know.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
Jen kind of touched on this talking about her her
previous career in sales and it being a very male
dominated industry. It's the same is true for the private
detective field. It is and I hate to say it,
and I don't really mean this in a bad way.
It just turned out that way. It's really was meant
to be a good old boys club, so to speak.
You know, I think that the biggest misconception uh that
(11:40):
people have, Well, actually there's like two. There's a fantasy
one where you are magnum p I or a Colombo.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Or you're a guy and you drive a hot.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
Car, or you're wearing a trench coat and you have
a cigar and you're peering through the bushes, or you're
you're you know, you're, you're whatever. And I think that
that's the first miss conception.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's got to be a guy, and it's got to
fit one of those one of those scenes. You have
to have that look.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
Or you're from prior law enforcement, you've had law enforcement experience,
you are a cop, you're a detective, you're on the beat,
whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That that's what makes a great gum shoe, and it's
really not.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
It's somebody that is able to be resourceful tenacious.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's what makes a great private detective.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
And a lot of people are really shocked when I
tell them I'm a private investigator. They're like, what, Oh
my god, No, you're not. You don't look like one.
The first thing we say, you don't look like one.
I say, well, that's what makes me good.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I don't look like that, all right.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
So I think there is definitely While it is a
very male dominated field, there's women in the field that
are fantastic, and I wish there were more of them
because I've been doing this twenty years and it still
seems like we are so lagging in this industry in
terms of great women that do this.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Work, and I'd love to see more.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons why
we're starting this podcast is to get more people to understand.
And there's a lot of young females now that are
going to school and they want to get into criminology,
but they don't want to be a police officer, and
this is a great avenue for them. There's so many
(13:23):
different branches that they could take from here, right, they
can start their own business like Mary, And you know,
I just.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Feel like there's just not enough exposure into the real
lives of private investigators.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So what is the job all about?
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Right? And I find that interesting. So within this industry,
I know you've been in part of it for a while,
have you seen change? Have you seen the growth that
you think there needs to be to include more women?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Definitely?
Speaker 6 (13:51):
I mean I definitely think so with with especially with
social media, and I think that you know, I see
on LinkedIn there's a lot more women, but just in
comparison to the amount of men that do it, there
just isn't And I think people have this misconception that
you have to be you know, go to school for criminology,
(14:13):
you have to be in law enforcement, you have to
you know.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Whatever the case may be. And that's not true.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
And we kind of want to spread that word that
you could just be a girl who studied psychology and
you're really interested in human behavior and you can have
a whole business that kind of encompasses all of the
things that you're interested in.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
And people don't know that human behavior is what we
see every day.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yes, So I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Let's say I came to you, I had an issue,
I wanted to hire you. How does that look? How
does that break down? What does your job look like?
In a really general way.
Speaker 6 (14:54):
Okay, so in a general way, somebody comes to me
with a problem. Let's just say for sake of this discussion.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It's a cheating partner.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
They would reach out to me, either you know, call
the office, or they might meet me on the street
or any kind of random place where find out that
I'm a private investigator and they want to talk.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They would just reach out.
Speaker 6 (15:16):
And the first thing I'd want to do is just
discuss number one, why they think that their partner's cheating
on them. We go over the behaviors, We analyze their
routine and the things that they're doing, because I want
people to feel confident in themselves and their feelings and
their intuition. Because a lot of the times, especially when
(15:37):
someone is facing, you know, a cheating partner and they
start feeling uneasy about the relationship, everyone says, oh, you're crazy,
he's so nice, or you're crazy she's so in love with.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You that that's just crazy. Why are you thinking that?
Speaker 6 (15:50):
And anytime somebody's telling you to doubt your feelings and
that you're crazy, it's a terrible thing. So I don't
want people to feel that way, so we'll have a
discussion about why they think these things are happening. And
on the rare occasions where somebody might be feeling paranoid
or they're they're you know, feeling like something is going
(16:11):
on and you know, they're they're unsure of their feelings.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know, that could be the case that there really
is nothing going on.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
They're just you know, losing confidence in the relationship for
whatever reason, maybe.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Something that happened in their past.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
An investigation will will bring truth to that as well.
So what we would do is we would discuss those things,
the patterns, behaviors, then implement a plan for some type
of investigation strategy. And in most cases, for a cheating partner,
it's usually surveillance where we will watch them for a
number of hours or a number of days, whatever it
(16:45):
takes for my client to feel comfortable and secure that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
That person is or is not cheating.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
And typically, and this is why I tell all clients
because it's been you know, historically, how our investigations have
kind of panned out that it's some one barring the
fact that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Maybe it's a long distance relationship.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
If someone is having an affair and their partner is
living in the in the area where they live, they
will usually see that person within three days, within three
days of doing surveillance, that will happen.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And I got to tell you, and I think you
can agree with this.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
When somebody does suspect their partner of cheating and everything
is lining up and I think they're cheating, and Jen
thinks they're cheating, we see that like on the first
day it happens, it happens, so, you know, so I think.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
That's typically how it will go down, right.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
And on the opposite end of that, sometimes we're like,
they're not cheating, and we see that right away too.
Not right away, but after a few days we're and
it's starting.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
To look a little efficient.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
E's singly enough. It's not that that usually happens, and
not because our client is, you know, feeling paranoid, but
it's because our client is doing something that they shouldn't
and they're kind of pretty rejecting, if you can believe it,
on their partner. They maybe want out of that relationship
and they're like, oh God, maybe maybe an investigator will
(18:07):
help me out of this relationship and show me that
they're Cheating's that does happen.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Unfortunately, that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Well, how many of these cases, because I'm sure you
have many are typically things like affairs or what types
of cases do you generally have?
Speaker 6 (18:23):
So the majority of our cases we do a lot
of surveillance and undercover work.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
We're very heavy.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
In that that part of the the the industry, but
a lot of that has to do with personal injury cases.
We do a lot of surveillance on people that were injured,
either by a doctor or slip and fall on a
supermarket or slipping on a menu, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And you know, they're they're.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Suing somebody some stuff like that, right, and they're and
they're claiming some sort of some sort of injury, and
that needs to be fleshed out. They want to see
are they really as injured as they say they are.
And what's unique about this job, we're not looking to
get the money shot or catch the guy.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, I love.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
This job just being able to see both sides, and
both sides are helpful to everybody because we have people
on the defense who want to know how badly this
person was injured, and you know, we're thinking they're probably
going to be happy to hear that they're running marathons,
but they're also just as happy to hear they're really
(19:30):
as injured as they say.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
They are, and it alleviates a lot of questions for them.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
It helps them to develop a settlement strategy, you know,
a trial strategy, So all sides are important, So it's
a critical component to those things. So we do that
type of surveillance work, surveillance of cheating spouses. We do
a lot of post matrimonial work, which also involves a
lot of background and records research and surveillance when people
(19:56):
are collecting alimony, but they're really not entitled to that
anymore because they they are in a new relationship that
is tantamount to marriage, and in that case, the payer
is not obligated to pay alimony anymore. Child custody investigations
like high level background investigations, social media research, all of
(20:17):
those fun things.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Okay, so I saw that you actually did some for
TV as well about finding your father. Was I didn't
realize I was, I was researching. I was like, wait,
what is this interesting?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
I did find that I found that it was found
that interesting. What was your experience with that specifically?
Speaker 6 (20:50):
I loved it yeah, it was great. I mean, to
to bring people together. One father was homeless, found him
in a homeless shelter, so that I mean, it's it's
just very gratifying.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And that's that's other work that we do. We get
calls like that all the time. You want to find
their birth mother, they want to find their sister.
Speaker 9 (21:10):
What about the one that wanted us to find their ashes?
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Oh yeah, we actually, I swear we actually, Yeah, somebody
somebody had a relative's ashes and they wanted us to
try to find them to get the ashes from. Did
you no, we listen, we found cats all right.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
When i'm when i'm if, I'm not like super busy
and I really want to be creative and and want
something good to talk about and be like we'll take
that cat job, sure, why not?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
This this is okay, let's do this.
Speaker 9 (21:49):
Tives too on the side.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I love that you're all encompassing.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Yeah, well, it kind of reminds me of like my
previous job was in social work and one of the
things that you have to be like a jack of
all trades because if you have to be able to
go through this and it sounds like a part of
your job could also be like counseling. How often do
you feel like you have to be a cornerstone for
people during these really all theous difficult conversations.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So let's put it this way.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
Before I had an office administrator, I would be on
the phone with people before I knew any better, when
I was like starting this business, and I would answer
my phone and right off the bat, somebody's telling me,
you know, their entire life story and what should they do.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And of course I was like, I'm all into it.
I'm like, well, this is what you should do. How
are you feeling it?
Speaker 6 (22:37):
A lot of it is counseling, and it's to a
great extent, And while I'm not a therapist, I can
I can draw from my professional experience of my other
clients things that they did to.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Improve their life and move on or not move on.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
I mean, that's a big part of the conversation when
I have a client who again, let's go back to
to a cheating spouse, for example, depending on the outcome
of our investigation, the trajectory of their whole life may
have to change. Everything that they knew could be different
or not. And that's okay. Just because somebody is cheating
(23:15):
doesn't mean you got to pack your bags and go.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Every situation is different.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
There's a lot of context, and it takes too to
make it and to to break it. And I really
encourage people to dig deep and think about those things
and before they engage a private investiator to have a plan.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And a plan doesn't mean a plan to act.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
It could be a plan not to necessarily react right away,
but to know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That is the key.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Just to have some control that you weren't crazy, you
weren't seeing things, you weren't imagining it.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
This is what's really happening.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Barry got me this great surveillance video that just confirms
my feelings.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I'm going to put it in my back pocket it
and I'm ahead of the game. I don't have to
do anything now.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
They find some solace in that that knowing they weren't crazy,
they're in control and they can do whatever they need
to do at any point in time.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You know, I don't don't encourage.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
People necessarily take action, but I encourage them to think,
to think about a plan, to think about possible actions
based on just my my professional experience.
Speaker 8 (24:26):
And you do the same with the people that, yeah,
absolutely and you know, one of the things is just
listening to Barry speak to the people that call in.
You know, she just provides them such good advice, you know,
and she'll be honest with them too, like very honest
and I am not a good liar, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 9 (24:45):
That's the number one thing in this job is that.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
That's why I had no friends and I on our friend.
Speaker 9 (24:52):
We have to you know, we're honest.
Speaker 8 (24:54):
Obviously the people are subjects aren't sometimes, but you know,
Barry will say, listen, you know this this isn't for you,
or this is for you, and you know, if you're
thinking these things, then something must be going on or
A hard part of this job.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
Is being sensitive to people's people's feelings, you know, because
you might hear a story and that is freaking crazy.
This lady's out of her mind. And sometimes we get
people that call that that are are out there. They
have questions about people. You know, they think a dentists
implanted something in their their tooths so that they're being
(25:34):
tracked remotely there. I mean, we've had a lot of
calls like that, things about aliens. You want to be
sensitive to people, but at the same time, yeah, you know,
you have to have that tack to try to.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Send them a different avenue. So it's not something that's
kind of like the impossible for us to help you with.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
But here's somebody that, you know, here's a bugsweep guy
that you can call and that might help you.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know, you think that.
Speaker 9 (25:58):
They all think that they're being listened.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
So you know, I've seen a lot of TikTok creators,
especially one specific one that's an investigator, and I see
her doing the cameras and watching and she has a
lot of times been like there's nothing here, but you know,
really really fascinating. But with that, with the fact that
there's so many crossovers, how did you what made you
think podcasts? Yes, we need to take what we do,
(26:23):
our stories and put it on a podcast because you
are I think one of the first ones that I've
actually heard of doing this specific topic, which I love.
But with this specific like women in the industry, what
does this look like, let's have a conversation about why
it's important that private investigators exist and why you might
need one as well as how do you get involved?
So what made you say, yes, this is the platform
(26:45):
for us.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
So my thought process behind this was and you brought
up the Oxygen show Finding my Father. And ever since
I started this business, for the last i'd say fifteen years,
contacted left and right from producers, different production companies, different
networks wanting to do a TV show about women private investigators.
(27:09):
And this show all these years later, whether it featured
me or somebody else, does not exist.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It just doesn't exist.
Speaker 6 (27:18):
And the reason why is, you know, networks want to
show the real deal. They want to see surveillance, real surveillance.
There's there's no way to gauge or manage how long
it will take to get to an outcome. It could
take hours, it could take days, it could take weeks,
even any kind of years.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That you're doing. Yes, we came here, We've gone for years,
exactly right. So so that.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Always that always bothered me, that it just never got
the exposure.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And I wanted the exposure to be real.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
A lot of times, a lot of networks wanted me
to be crazy, and they wanted me to expose all
of my you know, my.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Clients and my stories. I could never do that.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
I'm a real deal private investigator. So I thought, like,
what we need an angle to expose people to this
industry where we get to tell our stories, and some
of them are crazy.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
A lot of them are crazy.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
We see a lot of crazy things that have nothing
to do with our job. But while you're sitting on
surveillance or doing whatever you're doing, you see it all
from from like drug deals to like just I don't know,
people making out, fighting everything, throw the bottles at people
in the middle of like early in the morning, fight,
(28:32):
people picking their buttons, picking their no I mean, all
kinds of terrible things, like anything that when you think
someone's not watching, should I do this, don't do it?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Somebody's probably watching you. But anyway, we see it all.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
But so I thought, like this, there's a platform that
I felt like we could be creative and have that
creative outlet and really tell people about what we do
and also how does that affect our lives?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
How does the.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
Outcome and investigation affect our client's lives. So it's not
just about the crazy stories that people want to see.
I mean, there'll be plenty of that, but it's also
the tips. It's also you know, what happened to you know,
to Pam whose husband you know, was living a double life.
We actually talk about what happened to Pam after and
how she was able to move on and how she
(29:20):
found success after being you know, a stayed home mom
without a career, and where is she now after all
the terrible things that have happened to her?
Speaker 9 (29:29):
How did she change her life.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
For the better.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
So it's it's an interesting look seeing all sides, all
sides of the story because there's always you know, the truth,
three sides, yours and mine, what's really happening. So we
kind of that's kind of the focus of our lens,
so to speak, of what we talk about.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
So when is the podcast coming out? What is all
of the details that we need to know so we
can get ahead of it, subscribe to it, all those things.
Speaker 8 (29:59):
Yes, we actually were launching on August seventh, and we
are will be on Apple and Spotify, and you can
also see a video component of our show on our
YouTube channel.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Oh okay, that's so everybody get that on your schedule
because we're not done talking. I just wanted to make
sure we put that in there, and then we're gonna
put it at the end this again, but you know,
just go ahead and get that in our minds because
we need to remember August.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Seventh, it got it, got it.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
So, you know, I find it fascinating because Pi's is
so interesting because it's not just you know, yes, you've
got the kind of like the tea bits that you're like, oh,
I want to know about this, but you also kind
of go down like almost a true crime route as well.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Do you see an overlap in that for your show?
Speaker 6 (30:43):
I think, I mean the investigation component, what it is
going through, just the strategy, going through the steps like
coming up. I mean, you always have to although you
know we're we are not biased in the sense of
we know somebody did this or we know somebody did that,
we have to have some kind of the or your
hypothesis to take us down certain roads to flush them out.
(31:04):
Is this the right Are we going down the right path?
Or we should we be going down this path instead?
And I think, you know, the strategy of how we
do that is really interesting. I mean just even steps
to find a Facebook account of somebody that's using an alias,
how we use our databases, how we flush out relatives,
how we you know, different.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Tips and tricks like using unique names.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
Like there's a lot of Samantham mcvays out there, But
we're going to find that one relative of yours who
has this really really uncommon name that nobody else could have,
and we're gonna find them really quick on Facebook, and
then we're going to start all of their friends and
we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Go down here.
Speaker 8 (31:41):
Yeah, and then all of a sudden, boom, we find
a right and it all comes together.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
So it's it's you know, there's a lot of programs
out there that say, like, oh, we could find there's nothing.
There's no AI that can do what I do. There
just isn't And they say, I'm.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Sure it's not just me.
Speaker 6 (31:59):
I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that
are good at doing that research. That makes a great
investigator because it could take hours, if not days to
do it sometimes, and it's that tenacity that that gets
the answer. There's no AI that's going to figure out
you know, Jen is actually using the Facebook page name
I Love Cats or whatever, and you know connect it
to her. You got to go through all of those
(32:20):
channels and and find the connection. So, I mean, that's
obviously a very simple investigation.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's it's it's not.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
True crime or anything, but the methodology is the same
it's it's and that's what people find interesting.
Speaker 8 (32:35):
And sometimes we don't find a picture. Sometimes we don't
find all the full information, just a little piece. Sometimes
it just doesn't Again, we just we have to go
out on the field. And it's not so much doing
investigation through our computer, but it's actually doing investigations out
on the road, not knowing where the person looks, like,
(32:57):
where they live, like, kind of just trying to put
things together.
Speaker 9 (33:01):
You know that it's a lot of work.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
That's a great point because a lot of people think like, well,
I can find out anything on the internet, and there's
some things you just can't.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You just can't, and you have.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
To go out and you have to to actually, you know,
get in the field and pound the pavement and knock
on doors and do interviews and you know, do surveillance
on people, places and things.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And that's how you get your answers.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
You got to get through the gatekeepers. I always said,
it's one of my favorite words is to think fast.
Speaker 8 (33:29):
You know, it's coming up with a quick story to
get them to answer your question. So if I knock
on a window of an apartment building, but it's security
and I said, oh, I need to see so and so,
and my grandma made some cookies for her.
Speaker 9 (33:48):
She can't come down. Oh, she's not allowed down. I'm like, please, please,
can I go up there? I have cookies for her,
you know.
Speaker 8 (33:56):
And you just have to like learn to be quick
and fast and be creative and whatever. Sometimes that cookie
thing could take you wherever.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
But on a non existing GM, I just read that
one on the fly.
Speaker 8 (34:09):
I never did my grandma's cookies, but I use my
grandma for a lot of stilling those cookies, so it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yes, oh, yes, One thing I wanted to go back to.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
We've been talking about how this has traditionally been, both
in media and in history, a male dominated industry, but
this is changing. One thing I was thinking about when
I was imagining, like if I wanted to go to
a PI, I would want to go to a woman,
Like I feel like there would be situations, especially if
(34:45):
I'm going to cry my heart out about I don't
know this guy I think is bad news. Like, I
just feel like there's certain situations where going to a
woman I would like to have that option. Do you
feel that you've seeing that do you feel that there's
maybe a different skill set? I know you said that,
(35:07):
you know, people don't think private invest hares are women,
so therefore you kind of have that going for you.
Speaker 6 (35:14):
Interestingly enough, I mostly hear that from men that want
a female investigator because they they have conjured up in
their mind it's gonna be like a cop.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It's gonna be real detective looking, and I.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
Don't want to get caught, and I want it to
be not threatening in any way.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I think it's pretty even.
Speaker 6 (35:31):
In terms of women that have expressed I feel comfortable
talking to a woman, but men are really great with it,
and I think they kind of think that I'm going
to help them in some way, or they're feeling less
threatened by me in a sense that I'm not judging
them like another guy would like, Oh, you're letting your
wife cheat on you, buddy, Like that's pretty messing up.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You're real, you know what you know?
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Like you know.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I think that.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
At the other flip side is I've had clients who
are like.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I really need to work with you. You're a woman.
I think you're going to be great.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
There is a component there are certain men that think
they're going to control me and manipulate me in some
way to do certain things or the way they think
they want the investigation to be. So it's an interesting
dynamic being a woman and being able to know, you know,
those types of clients, and I've gotten pretty astute at
like figuring out who they are. There's certain triggering words
(36:28):
that they'll say, and I'm like, we're not doing this guy,
I don't care if he wants a woman.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
There's other women you can go and find.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
It's not going to be me, but I think there
are And I again, I think I've had this express
to me more from men clients than from women, that they.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Are more comfortable working with a woman.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
And part of it, I think being their own insecurities
and the threat to the subject that we're watching.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
That they don't want to get caught.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
They're scared, they're nervous about it, and they feel more
secure having a woman do the job.
Speaker 8 (37:00):
Yes, because nobody thinks a woman exactly following.
Speaker 6 (37:03):
They don't want to they don't want that that cop feel.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I guess she's getting kids.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Give me a lot to think about.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Oh okay, Well, as you said, a lot of this
can be very you know, heartbreaking or difficult or whatever
to share, perhaps embarrassing to share This is going to
sound like a strange question, but I've heard it all
with you. I mean, yeah, sure, now that I say that,
(37:33):
this is not even going to sound strange you at all.
But like, at the end of the investigation, do you
feel like people have closure? Like what is the feeling
that they have?
Speaker 6 (37:45):
I think for the most part, yes, there is definitely
there is definitely a sense of closure For a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
We get a lot of repeats. We get a lot
of repeats, whether one way or the other.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
So even when we have a case where we caught
their part and are cheating, they come back to us
a couple years later. And that's why it's so important
when I had that initial conversation with them to say,
you know what, don't go blowing this out of the water.
Don't take this video and run to your partner and say,
oh I got you, I got you, because you might
not leave that person might.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Say I'm going to change, Everything's going to.
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Be great, and then guess what, a year later, you're
finding yourself feeling the same way. And now they know
that you've had surveillance on them before because you showed
them the video, it's going to be that much harder
to catch them next time, So I say put it in.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Your back pocket so you really figure out where things
are going.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Well, obviously y'all see a lot, a lot, a lot
as well as you've been through a lot. I know
there were points that you had probably people threatening you
and or accusing you of being the doubtful of their relationship,
as if you had something to do with it. What
do you do for yourself to and also, this is
not a nine to five job, obviously you are constantly
having to be on looking around.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
What do you do to disconnect?
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Because I can't imagine it's that easy.
Speaker 6 (39:11):
We have you know, even when we're not in the field,
they're doing investigations, so you know, we have investigators that
report to us, so we're constantly unfortunately, and as a
business owner, you know it's it's not a nine to
five You're right, So I guess the best way to
disconnect is like the one opportunity to go on vacation
with it.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Please don't call me, please good.
Speaker 8 (39:36):
Yeah, Barry and I are always working twenty four to seven, but.
Speaker 9 (39:42):
We do that because we love it.
Speaker 8 (39:43):
This is Barry's business, so obviously it's her life and
I love it, and I love Barry, and I want
to make Barry happy, and I want our business to grow.
And I really like being exactly where I am today.
Speaker 9 (40:00):
I wish I started a long time ago with her.
Speaker 8 (40:03):
But you know, when I'm home, I we're still doing
our normal on the weekends, doing our daily activities and
at the same time answering phone calls, you know, so
it's the same thing. My wife may be like, hey, what,
I'm like, hold on a second, So what do you do?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
You do anything to you like, you have hobbies that
you do.
Speaker 9 (40:26):
I mean, I like to you know, over the years,
things have changed.
Speaker 8 (40:33):
I used to be like very into like being an
athlete and doing like obstacle course races and stuff. But
now I enjoy like my time home with you know,
my wife and my step son and going to his
wrestling matches or football or you know. That's kind of
you know, I have a big family, so you know,
spending time, you know, with them and just doing little things.
(40:56):
I live near the beach, going for a walk with
my dogs. I mean, it's just a little time to
relax and then I'm back out there. But you know,
private investigation, it's it's not just a you know, an
eight hour day, right, you know, ever know where.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
You're going to end up, how long you know your
subject is going to be out and about and you
have to stay with them.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
You know, till the end.
Speaker 8 (41:18):
Yeah, I mean I think my longest hour day was
a seventeen hour day. And my longest drive following someone
was from New Jersey to Ohio.
Speaker 9 (41:30):
Oh dang, yes, And you like really don't know.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
But I can blend into any situation. The car is
packed and loaded. So if I have to follow Barry
home right now, I can spy on her. If she
changes to go out on the boat, I can.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
I will be bored, yeah, but.
Speaker 9 (41:51):
Yeah, I'll be here.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
So essentially, you just try to grasp a moment just to.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Know. I think that's how you live your life anyway.
Speaker 6 (42:03):
You know, when things are great, you go with it
and you're happy, and you've got to try and be
in that moment and prefer not to look at my
phone or anything like that, and that I'm happy for
a minute.
Speaker 9 (42:14):
Yeah, we take turns.
Speaker 8 (42:16):
We'll say okay, we'll share, we share, we share, you
get today, I'll take all the calls and we're pretty
good about that.
Speaker 9 (42:24):
So it's a good balance.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We share.
Speaker 5 (42:27):
We share well, not that I'm asking for a specific reason,
and I don't have any plots or anything. But if
I were to need to get off the grid, what
would you say? What are the steps and things I
should be doing in order for me to be not found?
Speaker 9 (42:44):
Don't have a phone and get off social media?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Get off?
Speaker 6 (42:48):
Yeah, start off slow, no social media, that's the best
way to go. And then there's obviously other companies that
can help wipe you off all of those databases that
come up, like we see Amantham McVeigh that is, you know,
twenty years old and lives in blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah. There's there's there's products out there that
can help you work through wiping that out as much
(43:09):
as possible. I I honestly, it's it's really hard. It's
really hard.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
But social media would definitely be number one.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
You know, using certain applications on your phone, obviously the
ones that have location and tracking, you want to get
rid of those.
Speaker 9 (43:23):
Get a track phone, yeah, get a track phone.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
And you could still.
Speaker 6 (43:28):
Use your you know, your your fancy phones if you want,
but you know, just don't. I wouldn't use Siri or
Snapchat or anything that has maps and things that you know,
Google that share your location, make sure those are all
shut off.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
And I would Yeah, number one.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
Social media I think is the killer, the killer of
all things.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, it's fun for a minute and then.
Speaker 6 (43:51):
It's just just sucks it down a black hole and
everybody knows everything about you that you wish that they didn't, and.
Speaker 8 (43:57):
And people that don't know about you can find us
out about it.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
We always like remark every time we have a case
where it's like this person is just blowing up their
social media, like literally telling us where they are going.
Speaker 9 (44:11):
We're going to.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
Cape May for the weekend, and we're staying in this
hotel and I'm like, you're going to.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
This hotel and came back.
Speaker 9 (44:16):
Then I'm tagging my going off. The girl is there.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
We're watching her for like three days when I got
it with her.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
Family, she's got her room, we're all set up. Every
time that happens, I'm like, this isn't going to happen again.
These people are going to get smart. No, no, nope,
everybody's dumb.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Everybody's still dumb. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 6 (44:35):
They just cannot resist. So the first way to get
off the grid. Stop stop sharing your stuff?
Speaker 9 (44:41):
Yes, social stories, you got it?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Do that now?
Speaker 8 (44:46):
Just kidding, Well, you can't find anything out about you?
Speaker 9 (44:54):
Different story, yes, honest, a way for that.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Well, thank you so much for joining us. This has
been such a fun conversation. I know that we could
talk so much more.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
So.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
If you're welcome back anytime, fantastic. Yes, if you're ever
in Atlanta, We're always around.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I've been there. I like it.
Speaker 9 (45:18):
I've never been there, so I haven't got it out
my phone.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Actually none of our cases.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Is there cases down here?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh my gosh, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
But in the meantime before we get to meet you,
do have a new podcast. The first season's on infidelity correct, Yes,
primarily primarily all right, So can you tell the good
listeners where they can find you?
Speaker 8 (45:43):
Well, you can find us on Apple and Spotify.
Speaker 9 (45:47):
We launch on August seventh, and.
Speaker 8 (45:51):
If you want to be featured on our show so
we can talk about either your story or some advice,
you can email us at the private Eyzed podcast at
gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Do y'all have social media? We can follow.
Speaker 9 (46:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (46:05):
Our live component of the show you can see on
our YouTube channel. We also have an Instagram page, and
we also have a TikTok page all at Private eye Podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Awesome and you can contact us. You can email us
at stuffan your Mom, stuff at heeartmanu dot com. You
can find us on Twitter at moms podcast, our Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We have
a tea public store, we have a YouTube page, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Special shout out to Alex, producer of the
Private Eyzed podcast who helps set this up.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
And as always, thank you to.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Our super producer Christina, our executivedruser Mya, and our contributor Joey.
Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I
Never Told You the projection of by Heart Radio for our
podcast from our Heart Radio, You can check out the
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or if you listen to
your favorite shows
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