SMNTY Interviews: E. Jean Carroll

The fabulous author and journalist E. Jean Carroll joins us to talk about her lawsuits against Donald Trump, her book 'Not my Type: One Woman vs. a President' and the power of laughter.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
One Never told you a productive by Heart Radio. Before
we get into today's episode, just a quick content warning
or we're just going to be discussing some topics around

(00:26):
sexual assaults. I feel like Donald Trump is kind of
a warning in it himself. But the book we're talking
about today at large does go into it. Highly recommend
you read it. Don't. We barely touch the surface. There's
so much that we didn't get to talk about in
this conversation, so go check it out, but just know
that that is something that is in there. And today

(00:49):
we are so excited to be joined by journalist and
author of the New York Times best selling book Not
My Type One Woman Versus A President, Ejene Carroll.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yay exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yes, I'm just glad to see that you are here.
I hear you've been on jury duty.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I yes, I was.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
I actually tried to look up the case because I
did get dismissed. They didn't like me enough or they
were afraid of me, one of the two things.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
So I got dismissed.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
What was the case? What was the case?

Speaker 4 (01:22):
It was malicious murder, and a lot of felonies with that.
So it was a shooting that happened here in Decatur
slash Atlanta. So I was it was going to be
at least a five day trial, We're pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
But no, at least yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
So I was like, hey, so our jury, Yeah, our
initial jury questioning took two days and they didn't even
finish with us. They were just like, okay, wow, we
got at least forty something out of the sixty. We'll
see if we can pick from there. So it was
it was definitely a lot longer than I anticipated. And
that was actually my first time at being present. I

(02:00):
usually get dismissed before. So after the questioning, I don't
think they liked the fact that I said I was
on a podcast for.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Into social feminism.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
No immediate dismissal, immediate, right, So what else did they ask?

Speaker 4 (02:14):
You asked me about that? It was really kind of
funny because you know how they ask about jobs. They're
like podcast, you know, with like kind of a doubt,
And I was like, yeah, I understand, it's a job,
I promise, But I had experienced as a social worker
in like the Department of General Justice as well as
investigating the abuse.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
So they were like, yeah, all of that, we're just.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Going to go no unless oh boy, oh no. The
prosecutor was extremely smart, I want to put you on
the jury.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
I don't know if they argued about me.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
There was a lot of I bet you they did. Yeah. Yeah.
What was the racial makeup of the people who showed
up for jury duty.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
It was actually pretty mixed in race, because I think
there was like the least amount was Asian people and
Latina people, but there was a lot of very heavy
like black community base, especially in that area, as well
as white. So essentially I think it's good more more
black community than any other demographic. Yeah, decatury kind of

(03:20):
it kind of hits that way, right. But yeah, and
I see what you're doing. I see you're questioning me
and using your interview skills over here. This is not
this is not this episode, ma'am.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
No, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's just jurors are fascinating.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
They are. You're right, it was. It was interesting.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
I was kind of both of those, like, I don't
have time for this, and the thought of being on
this type of trial really makes me a little anxious,
So I didn't want to be on it, But at
the same time, I'm still curious and I kind of
want to know how that played out, and especially knowing
the jurors, like we had enough time to all talk
about our thoughts, and I was.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Like, Oh, this is going to be an interesting makeup.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm interested in jurors. Of course, because we before first
trial against Donald Trump, we had something called mock jury's.
Oh really, this is jury X is a big, big
cases where a lot is at stake, And there was
a lot at stake because I had sued the sitting
president of the United States, right, and so it's my

(04:19):
jories of where you present your arguments to twenty seven
typical jurors to see if your arguments are working. You know,
you don't quite, yeah, you know. So we put on
an entire trial in front of twenty seven typical New
York is in a big ballroom in downtown New York.

(04:43):
We put on witnesses, we had videotapes, we had someone representing,
We had Donald Trump represented by one of our lawyers
who played Joe Talker Big Oh, the great criminal defense lawyer.

(05:05):
And the case went. We thought the arguments were brilliant,
and then the twenty seven typical New York jerors met
to discuss the cases, and they were divided into three
of nine each. And here's what they decided. They all
agreed that, yes, two people could end up in a

(05:27):
dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman. Yes, and yes, they agreed
that two people could involve involve themselves in something sexual
in a dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman in nineteen ninety six.
And they agreed that the two people in the dressing
room and Bergdorf Goodman were Donald Trump and EJ. And Carroll.

(05:50):
But what they all thought was that I was begging
him for it, all of them pretty much, Wow, pretty much,
all the men pretty much Now it was that it
was because I was They saw me on videotape and

(06:13):
a deposition I was too old, too dissiccated, too much
of an old crone that they couldn't imagine what it
was like in nineteen ninety six. Sequence is, So then
we had to redo my hair like it was in
ninety six, to the makeup like it was in ninety six.
I wore clothes that I actually owned and wore in
nineteen ninety six. And so that's what we did. And

(06:35):
we found out our arguments were way off. We thought
we were doing a case for all women, right, We thought,
you know this is going to be where this is.
You know, powerful men may not always be believed perhaps
a woman has a story. Oh no, uh uh no.

(06:56):
The gender divide is as strong as ever in this country.
We found out. And Robbie Kaplan, the great you know,
legal mind of her generation, my attorney said, from now on,
this case is not for all a woman, Jean, this
case is about you and Donald Trump. And he lied, right.

(07:19):
So that's why I'm so fascinated with Jerry's Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense. I mean, I mean, isn't
It's just fascinated.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
It is.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
We had the best case of the world. They didn't.
They didn't see it because I'm too old, too old,
too ugly.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
So yeah, and you did an amazing job in opening
this because yes, you essentially had that as an introduction
for this amazing book before we start, because we did
mention who you were and what we're specifically talking about today.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
But and I think people you really don't need that
big of an introduction.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
The minute I saw your name in our email, I
was like, yes, yes, yes, we need to talk to
her and me, But can you introduce yourself to our
listeners just in case?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Well, how do you do? How do you do? I'm
Eg and Carol. I'm a journalist, the journalist for fifty years.
I was an advice columnist for Elle for twenty seven years,
and I've led a really fascinating, wonderful and incredible life.

(08:26):
I was missed cheerleader USA, and I happen to suit well, okay,
I happen to be the only person on the planet
to have beaten Donald Trump twice.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
The balloons are amazing. I'm so in love with that, guest.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Listeners, there balloons happening in the back ground.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Oh, there's so much to your life story that I
really there's so many things that we could talk about,
and I really hope we can be friends enough that
you want to come on to our show again so
that we can have a deep dive about your life
and all the things that you've experienced just alone and
like your vice columns, and because you were kind of
the beginning with the many others to like talk about

(09:16):
what it is to have a call based on people
asking you for your advice. You talk about therapists asking
you for your advice, So we want to have you
on for so much more. So please, if you have
any free time and you want to hang out with
two lonely girls in the South, we need to come
back on for more.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
But now, why, why would anybody want to come on
the show of two women who have decided to do
a podcast every single day of the week.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Why would you do every day? That's a great question,
that is true.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
One must ponder that before accepting our offer.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Wow, do you fill one of the spaces up again?

Speaker 2 (10:02):
It's amazing. It's a huge accomplishment. Then people get addicted
to you and then they've got to hear it. You know,
you become part of their day. So that's in a
way very wise, very yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Know, kind of like the whole jury divide.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
I think there's a love and hate for us.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Let me ask you, do you run out of things
to say? We have yet?

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Yeah, And I think with the way in the state
of the world, Oh, there's other things. At least we
can update because we have to constantly update because of
the way things have changed so quickly, and as long
as we have the freedom to do so, we will.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Much like having you on the show, which we are
so privileged to have you on this show. But yeah,
like right now.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
We have to kind of go into the darkness, if
you will. But there's plenty there in that darkness. I
don't want a hard time and trying to find the
optimistic point of view.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
So it must be amazing that you had to really
start turning towards the dark because I know you two
don't necessarily that's not your life vision. No, no, no,
it's not.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
I've been doing this. I've been on this podcast either
as a producer or editor since twenty ten.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Way minute, I didn't start as a host.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Until like, I think twenty eighteen, Wow, but I was producing, editing,
and so seeing like the timeline of how things have
changed in this space has been really really.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Wild, particularly the road that women have taken since twenty ten. Yes, yes, indeed.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, one thing we wanted to talk about before we
get into your book more in depth is that you
do have this really varied writing career for SNL. You're
a contributing editor for Playboy, the Advice column ask Egene,
numerous books. You've had a lot of adventures doing it.
How did you get into writing?

Speaker 2 (12:11):
H When I was twelve, I sent off my first
pitch letter to the series of Robot catalogs. I had
an idea for a story. I just I was raised
in a house full of magazines. One of the high
points in my childhood was my father coming home waving

(12:34):
Time magazine and saying, they've published my letter in Time Magazine.
And the whole street where we lived was like, Oh
my god, Tom Carrol's got his letter publishing Time Magazine.
So I thought, wow, this is pretty exciting being in

(12:55):
a magazine, right, So that's sort of what I wanted
to do. And I spent twenty five years after pitching
the series in Roebuck Caalog at d Asy Joe, took
me twenty five years to get in my first magazine.
Twenty five years. Can you imagine the hideous ambition drive

(13:19):
lust to be a magazine that would drive some poor
woman twenty five years through no, no, no, no, the
blizzard of nos from New York editor. I never got
a yes. I never got a yes. And then in Esquire,
a woman named Marilyn Johnson picked my poor Manila envelope

(13:45):
off the top of their slush pile. And Esquire at
the time was the just the most brilliant literary magazine
in the country, and their slushpile. I have pictures of
were five and six feet tall. That's how tall they're
sus strong and she having to pick it off and
she called me and they accepted it. So that's all

(14:07):
I needed to get in, you know, Once I was in,
You know, once you're in, you're in. And I got
my big size of loving shoe in that Esquire door,
and that's all I needed.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
I love that. Like, there's so many questions.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
I have a feeling this is going to be a
long interview because every time you kept give us like
such great storytelling information, I have like more questions that
come off of that. So so hopefully we can get
through this from the hour.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
A lot it to us. If not, I'm telling you
we want you to come back. But all of that
to say, how did you deal? What's twenty five? What
made you keep going?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Within?

Speaker 4 (14:48):
Like having twenty five years of a projection? Because I'm
one of those that, like you hurt my feelings, I
might just leave that life be enough for me of
a rejection, but you pushed through and that's a dedication
in itself.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
How what made you keep going.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
The glamorous life of a magazine writer was is almost
unimanageable today. To work for a magazine meant you had
the ticket. They would send you anywhere in the world
to write about people you had never met, would never
see again, about some subjects you knew nothing about, and
they would send you away and you would get it

(15:25):
was the life was so adventuresome and so glamorous that
I couldn't help but want to just be right in
the middle of everything. And it turned out to be true.
It turned out to be it turned out. I mean,
I mean the off days in you know, the eighties,

(15:48):
at the peak of magazine Glamour, running down the boulevards
at three point thirty in the morning, you know, getting
eating a French onion soup at four in the morning,
you know, just going just it's just you just banging
on life. It's ship ringing every bell. And there are
several books out right now about the Glamour's eighties magazine,

(16:12):
the Graydon Carter biography, there's one now about Condie ask
coming out. But it really was. It was romantic and uh,
you know it was. It was a stupendous stupendous Unfortunately
Now do you know what our new magazines are. Our

(16:34):
new magazines are now podcasts. That's what the new magazines are.
That's it that the podcasts have taken over. Well, I
think it's pretty cool. I think it's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
So interesting format.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
I will say for sure I want the Glamorers part
because I think your life story, your career story.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Where's your HBO series? You need one.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
You need it just to tell the people out there
and if someone does pick it up, I want I
want a personage.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
I need it.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
I need here.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Thank you. That's smart.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
That's smart. I'm there, my name, I'll here, y'all.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Okay again, Like I said, I have a feeling we're
going to have so much to talk about, and I'm
going to try to focus.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
I promise, I'm going to try to focus in.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
Your book, not my type one woman versus a President, which,
by the way, what a title delves into your two
lawsuits against Donald Trump. So before we get into the specifics,
could you break down the lawsuits so we and the
audience are all on the same page. Annoying, especially what
you thought of with the lawsuit and everything else.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Could you break that down for us?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Very simple in nineteen ninety six, Donald Trump and I
ran into each other in front of Bergdorf Goodman. Burgdorf
Goodman is a luxury department. It's not a department store.
It's a specialty shore. It's like no other store on
the base of the earth. It's a mansion at seven floors,
and it's just brillant. He asked me to help him

(18:14):
find a gift for a friend. I was delighted. That
was my job. That's my business. I advise people. So
it turned very dark when we got to the sixth floor,
and it was so bad that I stayed silent about

(18:37):
it for almost thirty years. And then the Weinstein story
hit the cover of the New York Times, remember that,
and the waves of women standing up and telling their story.
I just said, well, I am the biggest hypocrite of

(19:02):
all time. God damn it. That's seventy game five. I'm
not going to be silent any longer. And I told
my story. He when it hit. It was on the
cover of New York magazine when it hit for three
straight days from the White House. He called me a liar,

(19:25):
and he said I was a liar twenty six different times.
I knew there would be a ruckus I had. I
was no, I was not at all prepared for what
for that? And at a party at Molly Jong Fast,
who you should also have on your podcast. She just
wrote a great book about her mother. I ran into

(19:46):
George Conway, of all people, and George was the first
person to actually tell me about possibly something called a lawsuit.
George was, of course as a famous lawyer in his
own right. He went to he was, you know, five

(20:08):
bigger capitin from Harvard. He went to Yale Law School,
he started the Lincoln Project, and he explained to me
what a lawsuit is. Nobody'd ever really taken the time,
and he said, actually he wrote a piece about it
in the Washington Post that George was a famous Republican
by the time at the party, he had written a

(20:33):
big op ed in the Washington Post to his fellow
Republicans saying, if you believe Jannita Broaderick, remember why Nita
Brodrick is a woman who claimed that President Clinton had
raped her. So George's op ed piece was, if you
believe Jannita Broadrick, you gotta believe Egene Caroll because she

(20:55):
has a better case, a stronger case. So I went
over to think and then that's when he explained that
I had a lawsuit, and it was I never thought
of lawsuits. I was not thinking of loss of Other
people are saying are you going to sue? Are you

(21:17):
going to sue? And I it would just it would
not mean anything because I didn't even know what that meant.
So he said, and I may be able to help.
Think of someone to help you. And the next day
here's an email saying introductory email and there were two

(21:37):
words Robbie kaplan. It was like a bomb going off,
because you know, Robbie at that time was just trouncing
the Nazis in Charlottesville. She'd open the way to gay
rights in America with windsor she was really, she really

(21:58):
is one of the great legal minds is ever practice
law in the whole United States. So we met two
days later and that was it. I knew the minute
I shook her hand that this is what I wanted
to do. So we sued him for defamation. We sued
the sitting president for defamation. That started a long trip

(22:20):
and suit him for defamation. He asked the DOJ to
step in and to pay his legal bills and represented
him well. That case was stopped. A second case, I
sued him again for sexual abuse because New York State
passed something called the Adult Survivors Act. So then midnight

(22:46):
on Thanksgiving I sued him again for sexual assault. So
now we have two suits. Okay, the one with sexual
assault and defamation went first. That we won unanimous juror
said Trump was liable for sexual abuse and defamation. We
totally won that. Two days later, after we won, Trump

(23:08):
went on the CNN town hall and re said and
redid everything. He had just paid me five million dollars
because he said in the person. So I sued him
again and that became. That was added to the first suit.
So the second trial was only about damages. We had

(23:31):
proved there was sexual assault, so we didn't need what now.
It was about damage done to me. And that was
the big trial, and he misbehaved every single It was
wonderful just to see him in court. Oh my god,
the apercot makeup, the hair done up like Barbara Stanwick

(23:55):
in bull Offire, I mean, the antics. It was an fretto.
It was just after each day's trial he would go
out and say, this is a travesty of judgment. I deserve.
I deserve the damage she hurt me. Why you know why? Why? So?
So that was the second trial, and that one we won.

(24:18):
And he's being made to pay eighty three point three
million dollars for his lives and the damage he did
to me because he killed my reputation.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
He just killed it, right, And I know just last
month he lost the appeal to that, which is even
more glorious to.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
No, he always loses the appeals. He loses every single aval.
He must be exhausted from losing. I mean he must.
He just must see Robbie Caplan's face and just fake
from bear because he cannot. He cannot win this case.
He cannot win it. He's exhausted the appeals on the
first truck, the five million dollars draft, he's lost all that.

(24:58):
The only thing he can do now is go to
the Supreme Court. He has sixty days to go and
he hasn't gone yet, So I don't know what he's
I don't think. Well, wait a minute, Annie Samanthy, what
do you think do you think this Supreme Court is
going to want to hear a case where the President
of the United States, who they all apparently worship, sexual

(25:23):
abuse of women. Do do you think they want to
hear that case?

Speaker 4 (25:27):
I want to hear, yeah, I mean would they hear
I don't because there's too much.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
I don't Trump, You're trying to get me in trouble.
There's a lot to be said that this Supreme Court,
especially the way is stacked, is there purposely and for
a reason, and it's for Trump's advantage. So I think,
like I would hesitate saying that, I don't think they

(25:55):
would want to hear it, but I don't think they
would completely dismiss it. So who knows. Who knows? Because
also we're not legal. I'm not a legal person, so.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
That you know, but you're but you're a highly intelligent person.
It doesn't make sense that during these Epstein days that
they would hear anything.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
And that's the other question to that is if he
does well that open it up, because you mentioned that
in your book and about the fact that you had
that as like in your back pocket. That could be
like if he was smart about it, I would think
that he especially because he's I feel like he's done
everything he can try to suppress that information. So this

(26:33):
seems like if you were But then again, I don't
know the level of intelligence.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
I don't kindly that I'm good.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Trouble well, maybe that the level of intelligences they may
want to help him when right.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Right, Well, also, like I said, the level of touches
are like, this may give you an avenue to open
up all of that moot questions.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
About oh it would not yes, exactly, it would not
be smart. Because their own argument, I here, do you
know what Trump's argument is on this case? Tell me,
oh boy, you're not gonna believe it. You are not
gonna believe it. Trump is saying because one of my witnesses.

(27:17):
Remember I had eleven witnesses at the first trial, which
is unusual because there are usually never any witnesses when
sexual assault takes places. Well, we had eleven witnesses. One
of those witnesses was Jessica Leads and you remember her.
She was the woman who he assaulted on the airplane

(27:41):
in nineteen eighty Okay, and he's always denied it, and
there are cases that she should not have been a witness.
Are you ready for this? You better grip your desks.
You got a grip, because I don't want you to

(28:02):
fall to the floor.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Their argument is she should not have been allowed to
be a witness because when he assaulted her in nineteen eighty,
assaulting a woman on an airplane was not a crime
in nineteen eighty.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
A feeling you're gonna say that because in the air Yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
My gosh, I thought it was gonna be that she
should have had her own case, which is also pretty damy.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
I can I feel like that.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's thinking, that's how that so.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
So this is why I say I go back and forth,
like I would say, rationally he should not, but then again,
his ego as well as the fact that yes, he's
he will continue to lose to you in order to
try to win, which is also a thing.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
But right now, cool, that's that's I like that. I
like that. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm just saying that
there's so much to.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
That that that's like he is one of those and
then his team whatever whatnot.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
He's got the mess lawyers in the country. You know,
he's maybe trying to get more money from Yeah, they
they're all now Alena Habba is now as you know,
attorney general. You know, Joe Takapina goes on to his
attorneys are all okay, Alena Habba Esquire doesn't know Diddley
squat about the law. Okay, we understand that, we understand that.

(29:34):
But she's brilliant. She's a great politician, mark my words.
She will be running percentate soon. She is. And she's
got the stuff. She's got beauty, brains, confidence, she can
do it all. She just doesn't know anything about the
law anything.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
Uh, you know, it doesn't sound like a requirement needed
for any of those some decisions at this point in time.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
There's a lot of things about Trump's, like people in
his orbit that I'm like, this is just you want
someone who looks a certain way and who loves you.
And so a lot of what I was reading in
the book I felt was less about the law and
more that they were trying to play on people's ideas

(30:30):
about sexual assault or people's ideas like these things they
know have worked, but they're not like actually using a
good law case, like they're just playing to these ideas
and the jury. Which one of the things that stuck
out to me is you do start the book and

(30:50):
you say, you know, I want you to be as
discombobulated as I was during this whole process and you
can just see scripts of the questions you got asked,
and it was very telling of what they were trying
to paint, the story they were trying to tell. And
I think the title you know, not my type. You

(31:11):
talked about that a little bit more a little bit earlier,
but that's something we've discussed. We've been very open about
our own experiences with sexual assaults, and one of the
things with mine was that the first, one of the
first things I thought was, no one's going to believe
me because I'm not pretty enough.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
I never believe it.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
And you talk about that in the book where you
say you wrote, nobody's going to believe an eighty year
old woman was ever attractive enough to assault. So can
you talk about that and why you titled the book that.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, the title is It's just too delicious because he
was sitting at the what's the famous desk called the
what's his the resolute desk. Yeah, he was sitting at
the resolute desk when reporters from the Hill ask him
about this assault and he said to the reporters from

(32:09):
the White House, as President, she's not my type. Okay,
Then missus Robbie Kaplan gets him in a deposition. She's
at Mary Largo and he's on camera and everybody's recording him,

(32:30):
and she gets in to say several times that he
has been shown a photograph of me. She tells him
three times she is about to show him a photograph
of the plaintip e Gen Carrol. She's fair, but she's

(32:50):
like Odesssius. She just lays trap after a trap, and
like the cyclops, poor old Trump is gonna fall in
to most of other things. So, after telling him three
times she's gonna show, she shoves a nice black and
white photo across to him. He's got four people in it.

(33:11):
She says, can you identify the people in this photograph?
Immediately he says, that's John Johnson. Why John Johnson is
on TV? That's the first person. He's my ex husband,
great guy. Then he slides past Ivana. He says, I
don't know who that is, and then he points right

(33:32):
at me. He says that's Marla, and Mama said you're
saying that. Mom. He says, yes, yeah, that's my wife.
Then Haba lips in says no, that's Carol, and then

(33:53):
Trump says uh huh, nod and nods, and then he
says about seven seconds later, the photo is blory. The photo,
of course, is as clear as just It's just crystal
and clear. So it was odd. If you see pictures
of Marla and me from the time we are, it's

(34:17):
difficult to tell us apart. I mean, it's really a
strange thing. So most attorneys at that point would have said, look,
it's over, you've got no case. I mean, that's it.
That's but he of course went on and so the

(34:37):
not my type thing is so he says not my type,
and then he says, yes, that's smart. So of course
I'm going to title the book not my Type because
he's not my type. He is not my type. And
I don't think he's your type. Anny, I don't think
he's your type. Samantha, I don't think he's our type,

(34:58):
do you. No, I don't know. We need to hear
from your listeners. We need to hear from listeners. Is
down Trump your type? I don't know, it's down Trump
your tribe. Seriously, I'm a little nauseated.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
We can't talk about this in context of its human No.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
No, can I just say for the listeners. I have
them on camera. They're both looking like they're well, I
don't know. They're holding their hands over their mouths. I
don't know. You're trying to get.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Us in trouble for real, for real?

Speaker 2 (35:38):
What you no? Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Well okay, so you already talked about your your mock
jury and like the outcome of that child and how
it was like, okay, now we have to change our argument.
As a part of this, you tried to recreate how
you looked at the time. You even hunted down the
hairstylist who gave.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
You the bob.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
You recreated outfits, right, Can you explain why that was
so important?

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I had to give the jury of an echo of
the woman that was attacked in Brodors. They couldn't see
it from me just sitting there. So we had to
create the look, the same look that I had in
nineteen ninety six, And so when they held up pictures
of me in nineteen ninety six, they could really put

(36:45):
it together with the woman who was sitting at the
plaintiff's table. Because we were against a force so large
and so powerful, the only thing that could fight that
bors was fact. And that's what that's what we use. Fact.

(37:06):
She is Okay. They could see Okay, there's a dim
echo of the woman that we're talking about here. That's
what we had to go with.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
That's such an odd situation in prepping for our trials
is that you have to play or look the part
in order to be of course, a believed, be even
heard at any point in time into that you have
to go through the most invasive questions that seems nonsensical

(37:37):
half the time, like why are we even talking about this?
My personal life has nothing to do with that specific incident.
And at one point, I know the Trump team asked
you about.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Your lovers, like they needed to go through.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
A whole list and even descriptors of people. And by
the way, we just recently had an episode about Zubale Zoo.
So when Ben Vereen came on your list, I was like, wait,
what wait what.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
I did?

Speaker 4 (38:04):
I was like, I was like, what ben En, I'm
just talking about him anyway, moving on with a wow.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
I was just like, it just made me. That made
me my fuck. And you were able to respond with detail.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Unfortunately, because they kept asking you things like all of
that seems so over the top in any like, this
has nothing to do with anything. But with all of that,
a how were you able to go through and honestly
do this type of interview uh with the humor that

(38:39):
you were able to insert into this book, because that
in itself made me die a little bit, just the
thought of having to replay, like tell about my personal
life to talk about a really horrific incident A I'm like,
wait what and then you did it with such finesse
in the book, but also just being able to do

(39:00):
it seemingly respectfully to them and just what it wasn't
like to go through that type of questioning.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Talking about my lovers was one of the most fabulous moments.
I got to enjoy it. I loved it. I love
talking about my lovers. Love it. You want to talk
about my lovers of Lena Square, let's talk.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
About you literally gave the accolades.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
I started off with a gold medal, Olympic world record
holding butterfly jam. You know, so it was It was
the one moment in that deposition when I felt I
was flying with happiness, said, lifted the whole room. It
was fantastic. It was just yeah, she asked me questions.

(39:52):
Elena Hobba asked, why asked me questions like that? To
shame me to you million to make me look like
a fluozy, but you know, it made no sense. Why
is she asking me about my lovers when they say
he wasn't even there, when they say it didn't even happen.

(40:16):
So the minute she's starting to ask me about my lovers,
I know that she knows that she knows he was
there right at Bergvios. So that really the absurdity of
the trump So the book is comic, a high high comedy,
because it's absurd if he wasn't there, why are they

(40:43):
asking me why I didn't scream? Did that make sense?
Didn't make sense? Is it absurd? Yes? Is it funny? Yes,
it's funny. You know, you don't tear a part of woman,
you know, for not screaming when he wasn't there. So yeah,

(41:03):
that's why the book is fine.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
Right, And the level of like humor that you do
put in this does kind of also reflecting like the
moments of seeing what's going on that you can't help
but just laugh about the absurdity of it all. And
that's one of the things that really really push you
about in that moment of like you not realizing the
ill intent that was about to happen, and we like,

(41:29):
we talk about this all the time, and we've gotten
criticized by listeners, by men specifically saying that we as
a host giggle too much because we do talk about
a lot of serious things, and our response is to
kind of laugh at it because we can't do anything else.
It feels like it feels like if we don't laugh
at it, we might fall apart. Or it just feels
like we have to look at the absurdity beyond what's

(41:50):
right in front of us, because if we don't, none
of it would make sense. Not that it makes sense anyway,
but at least we can find a little like calming
in laughter, which has a lot.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Of keep it up and keep it up, keep it
up there, so one thing that's one of our great weapons. Exactly,
they don't like to be laughed at. Exactly, Keep laughing, ladies,
keep laughing, go for it. Keep it up. That you're
being criticized as a good sign, that's a good sign.
Do not stop with the giggling, and do not stop

(42:21):
with the laughing, please. It's a show of strength and
confidence that you can laugh, shows that you are not
looking dead, like you know what's happening. Is flattening out
the country. Because if you're laughing, that is a good sign.
It's a sign of strength. Do not stop it, Jesus.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Come on, take this audio clip and put it somewhere
in my like affirmations. But this is this is something
Trump's lawyer made a big deal about, and they tried
to try to use against you that you laughed instead
of screening. Why do you think they focus so much
on that. Maybe you just said it because it is
a strength, But why do you think they focused so
hard hoping that that would discredit you somehow.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Well, they've now set winning back fifty years, fifty years
taking away our rights. So of course their argument is
going to come from the seventeenth century or this fifteenth century,
or from the Bible. Actually they're going to go two
thousand years back, and I better have being screamed or

(43:27):
I'm lying. That is one of the oldest arguments. Actually,
it's in the Bible. So it's just the Republican way
of seeing women. And Joe Tacapino in one of the
great criminal defense lawyers. He got asap Rocky Off, he
got Michael jacksonaw acquitted, he got the Sopranos killer killer off.

(43:51):
He got the guy who bludgeoned Natalie Holloway down in
a rub but got him out of jail for like
nine years. He's one of the great criminal defense lawyers.
Donald Trump of course hires him because Donald Trump Trump
has committed a crime, so criminal defense lawyer. And I

(44:12):
think that Joe Taccapino was smart enough not to do
this old argument because Joe has daughters. Joe knows better.
I think Trump was telling him what to argue. I
think Trump was telling him from what I hear reported
about Trump, you know, telling his a lawyer. Well, actually

(44:32):
I heard him every single day telling Elena Hobbit what
to say, what to do, So I think he must
have done that with Joe Tacopina. And I think that
was Trump's argument. I don't think that was Joe Tacopina's argument.
I think Joe Tacopina was doing what his client wanted
him to do. U they beat up I mean for
not going to the police. Oh my god, has he

(44:53):
ever met a woman? I mean, a woman knows if
she goes to the police, some man may retaliate. Correct,
the woman may lose her job. Correct, she may not
be able to feed her family. I mean, that's why
you don't go to the police. There's they want. She

(45:13):
didn't want her family to find out who's the police
will be talking to everybody her life is basically you
go to the police, forget your life going on ever again.
But if you don't go to the police, if you
stay quiet, no they don't know about it, and your
life can go on. These are the decisions that women
are forced in the making when they're assaulted. It's it's

(45:34):
and then to be banged on for not going to
the police. I just I was amazed at the ignorance.
But it's not ignorance. It's a you of women.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
Right right, And it's still in today with like, if
she really was scared, if she really did go through
these things, you would go to the police. In the Yeah,
have you seen the police state? They probably wouldn't even
taken that case. They probably would have just been like, oh,
we'll take care of it and let you walked out.
Like the amount of like question and especially the fact
that it's happening today in nineteen ninety six, what were

(46:07):
you wearing.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
What were you doing?

Speaker 4 (46:08):
Did you go in with him alone? Just saying that
you were at the store with him would probably be like, no,
you don't have a case, and I would have dismissed it.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
There's nothing.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
The minute I read those sentences from him, I was angry.
I was like, what the hell are you talking about?
Do you not know about like the amount of cases
that actually never go in front of the court ever
when they are reported.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Oh no, it's only out of a thousand cases. It's
out of a thousand, it's only that go to trial
and the man is convicted. I think out a thousand,
I think five. Yeah, convicted, I think single digit number
for sure. Yeah. No, it's it's shock.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Yeah, exactly exactly, which is which is amazing because we've
had episodes when we talked about Me Too era, like
that's kind of how we started as a duo, talking
about you know, triggers and trauma warnings and why things
like this, especially in the METWO era, was important. But
we also talked about the importance of civil lawsuits and
how they are most of the time the only way

(47:08):
to get any justice anyway. In the sexual assault cases,
they're sexual haress.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
But nobody has enough money to do the thing.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
And they don't even know how to do that. Yeah,
there's so much to that conversation about why.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
And then also just in the like ideal of suing
immediately gets pitched as she's a gold digger, she's a
money immediately immediately, but like a case like yours has
changed the trajectory, especially with you being so loud about
how this is about.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Reclaiming my name and how important that is.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Just alone, that was really the only thing, and in
the end it did. It did as Robbie Kaflin figured out,
it would hurt him to give a bunch of money, right,
particularly if we gave the money away to help women exactly.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
The fact that he's losing on such a large platform,
large scale is beautiful to see because it takes more
and more to be like see, no people are understanding
how bad this really was, and the fact that he
can't let it go is also something that shows like
how much of an ego and the sociopathy is.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, it's impossible for women because difficult to sue a
powerful man because a powerful man will always be believed
over the woman, always, always, in every situation. Then if
she decides to sue him, he will sue her back
for defamation for millions of dollars. Then the woman gets

(48:46):
frightened because she does not have millions of dollars, and
she will you know. It's that's what's that's why this
doesn't happen unless you have somebody, unless you run into
George Conway at a party, unless you could you know,

(49:07):
it's really because Donerald Trump and my friend who I
told almost immediately after the attack, Carol Martin, the great
New York's anchor woman who's an icon in New York.
Tacopina beat up on her. Bad. Don't beat up on
Carol Martin. Don't put Carol Martin on the stand. No,

(49:32):
do not do that. Do not put Carol Martin on
the stand. He walked in at anyway, she was a
woman I told almost immediately afterwards, and she said, don't
go to the police. He's got two hundred lawyers. He
will bury you. Yeah, so Tacopina of course had to

(49:53):
ask her all about that. But yeah, it's just that
men had lawyers. Women don't have lawyers. Unless you're Cheryl
Shamburg or somebody. You may have a lawyer or two.
But so it's a hard situation. It's a hard situation.
It is.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
And one of the things that was in the book frustrating.
But also I think all of us we're living through
this right now, is that it's not a surprise. We've
seen this pattern of behavior with Trump. He pretty much
told us in the infamous Excess Hollywood tape, like what
kind of person he is? When I was reading your
book and I was like, no, I've heard about that case.

(50:36):
I didn't realize that, Like I was like, oh my gosh,
we know this about him, and it's just it wasn't
enough to prevent him from becoming president twice, and so
it can feel very disheartening. But you did win against him.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Twice, Like, that's right, that's my baby. How did it feel?

Speaker 1 (51:01):
I know you talked about it in the book, but
how did that feel when you were waiting for the
verdicts and then after you got the.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Verdicts, Well, waiting for the verdicts, I felt sort of
the weight. Well, first of all, it's impossible, but I
feel the weight of all And I know many of
these are the twenty three, the twenty seven to forty
three women who all have said come forward. It's not

(51:27):
just me, not just the access how I would taking,
it's all the other women who've accused him. So I
felt that, but the waiting, it's impossible to win a
sexual assault case because there's no witnesses. We happen to
have a lot of witnesses. Then we went out, the

(51:48):
jury left. Judge Lewis a Kaplan who should be on
the Sistine Chapel as God himself. One of the most
terrifying men I have ever seen my life. Conservative by
the book Break No Rules. In his courtroom, he and

(52:08):
a line of hobba, oh my god. He actually said,
right before the jury went out, uh, bringing up missus habba,
you are within minutes of going to lock up. Because
she she actually asked him, she said, your honor, I

(52:28):
don't like to be spoken to that way. To Judge
Leuwis anyway. So when the jury goes out and you've
presented your case in the first one, in the first trial,
where we worked so hard and prepared so hard, we
actually presented a very strong case. But Takapina is one

(52:50):
of the great attorneys in the country and very persuasive
with a jury, very persuisive. However, our jury was not
a Manhattan jury, even though you'll read it a thousand
million times on Twitter, they wanted New York, the Manhattan year. No,
it was an upstate jury full of people from the

(53:15):
Trump counties. Robbie tried to get one of them taken
off the jury because he was such a follower of
Tim Poole as a conservative who had actually talked about
me several times on his podcast and wanted a liar.
I was on Robbie trying to get Judge Katherln here
again he follows the rule. Judge Kaplan had a private

(53:38):
interview with this jury and said, can you fairly render
a bridiqu in this case? And the man said yes
he could. Judge Caplin says he stays on the jury.
So we really thought we were going to get a
hung jury. We've got Trumpers on the jury, and we

(54:01):
had exactly the kind of jury that we didn't want.
We had six men, and they're the guys who all
said that she's too ugly in the mock trial, and
we had three women. So it was pretty terrifying. So
we go out at lunchtime. We're in a big, marble,

(54:22):
beautiful room where we were waiting. Your voice echoes gorgeous
is in the Federal Court room, which is the Mother Court.
We're in the mother Court of the United States of America,
the first court that held session even before the Supreme Court.
So it's really it's a historic place. And I'm a

(54:45):
wreck and I keep asking. This team of attorneys is
just brilliant, and I keep asking each one, when do
you think the jury will come back? And it was
obvious that they had eleven questions to answer in this trial,
a loving question. So my team, the entire team, believed

(55:08):
that would take days. And the team was uh, not
only thought it would, they were certain of it because
my team had the team was so brilliant. We had
uh a clerk for just Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. We
had one of the clerks for Justice Kennedy. We had

(55:33):
a clerk for the Who's now clerking was so my ore.
This is the level of the team we had. And
their their thing was Genie's gonna take days. Just go
calm down. So I went into our little witness room.
I was taking a nap and bang the door opens.

(55:56):
Ferd Exam, Well, can you imagine I'm nearly had a
heart attack? Days and days is going to take days
and days? I got a loving questions to answer? Are
they have to take days and day you And the
man who opened the door was the Duke of Ferra,

(56:18):
Mike Farra, the great Mike Fharra, who presented our case
so perfectly, and who wrung the jury's heart. Man, he
you know, just banged on them. Because Takaped kept saying,
because I laughed, because I went to a couple of
parties that I couldn't have been sexually saul it. Mike

(56:38):
Farra had lost his wife to cancer, and he said,
when something bad happens in your life, just that mean
you can't go on with your life. You can't go
on and enjoy your life. You can't. You can't can't
go on with your career and go to work. You
can't go on with it. Uh what is this? What

(57:00):
is that what Joe Tacopina is saying. So his final
argument was it was brilliant. So he's one who opens
and he looks frightened to death. And when I saw
that the Duke of Rar looked frightened, I mean I
was seized with terror. So we staggered back in the
courtroom and Judge Katherlin said, had you chosen a leader?

(57:23):
And the woman stands up. One of the three women
so that was a good sign, and the verdict came in.
It was, without a doubt, the happiest moment of my life.
It was you could feel the people in the courtroom
just a sind with joy, and I understand that news

(57:49):
whipped around the world, boom boom, boom. And there was
an off Broadway play in production at the time and
in a very series seen and from what I hear,
and a producer ran out on stage said Carol One,
and everything stopped and the house lights flashed on and off.

(58:11):
That's what it was like in New York. Now, it
was it was impossible. We did it. It was incredible.
And Robbie and I were in the car after the
great win, you know, making our way through the press
and the white balls and everything. We got in the car.

(58:31):
We went through Chinatown and then up through Soho and
then through the village and Robbie's on her phone just
yacking her brains out, calling everybody she knows, getting congratulations
over there. And I am sitting in the other corner
of the car looking out and I'm thinking, Donald Trump,

(58:52):
this is your town, baby, and I just beat the
bat of you. So it was. It was an incredible
it was incredibly right.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
I love so much of this, and honestly, one of
the things that we were told that we need to
ask you about why you're fabulous. But honestly, just in
the first ten minutes, I kind of knew why you're fabulous,

(59:25):
just from your book.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
I absolutely know why you're fabulous. And I want to.

Speaker 4 (59:29):
Like just bathe in your aura because it is fabulous.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Okay, I want that to be noted.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
But also you kind of already mentioned this earlier, and
I think it's important because this good closure to this
interview is you were awarded five million in the first
trial and then eighty three point three million in a second.
But as you had eluded, this wasn't for you. It
was for women, It was for the victims. It was

(59:59):
for those who are survivors. Can you kind of talk
about with getting this money, what you're going to do
with it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Well, I love to talk about it, but it's changing
every day when I think, you know, when I first started,
I thought, well, we'll get women's reproduction right back, that's
how we're going to spend the money. And now every
day there's some sort of tragic development with the immigrants

(01:00:26):
and with the arts and with everything being taken away
so rapidly. I just don't know what it's just going
to have to We're going have to see, We're going
to have to take a look see where it can
best be spent. What do you think, What do you
think a chunk of it goes to the lawyers? Of course,

(01:00:47):
of course they deserve it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's tricky all. I guess it
would also depend, as you're saying, we are living in
a very rapidly changing environments, so when you actually get it, yeah,
and looking at where it could be best implemented. But

(01:01:11):
as you said, like I do love the idea of
giving it to things Trump hates.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
That's a very fun if he hates it. If he
hates it, that's what I was going to give it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
I think definitely you got to go for like the
queer community as well as a reproductive community, as well
as sexual assault survivors, Like those three are a really
good way because obviously those are things that he absolutely have.
That's part of the reason he won with the immigration
as well, Like those are the things he went on,
So going after things that he's trying to disassemble.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Right, I think on the cake.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah, particularly when you think that you know the numbers
of women who have been sexual assault in this because
he was so high sky high that people don't even
can't even begin to grasp how many people. I mean,
because number one, the reporting is not that's not accurate.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Oh no.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
And just recently when we were talking about DEI and
the fact that he's like, oh, this is all DEI.
But the actuality is it actually hurts nonprofits like violence shelters,
sexual assault, assault awareness stuff like those things that people
were like adamantly like, yes, we need to help women
who are in domestic violent situations, we need a god,

(01:02:20):
but they don't care enough to say that those other
things that they think is happening is actually taking money
away from that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
So stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
It's definitely so I am. I'm an old lady. I
beat Donald Trump twice. So it makes no sense to
me that the Ivy League universities and the big media
companies and the big corporations are been in the need

(01:02:49):
of Donald Trump because they're frightened at him, right, I
don't that I don't understand. So what I'm worried about
is if their word this is why people across the
land are being quiet, that aren't moving, aren't standing up,
are raising their voices because he's got everybody bowguarded. Right,

(01:03:15):
So I'm going back to one of the oldest things mankind.
It's the old old idea older than actually older than mankind.
It's called signaling. When a population is being attacked or oppressed,

(01:03:35):
there are ways for individuals to signal their support from
one another. Right, we don't have that signal. Mega has
the red hats. We don't have them. So I suggest
that we all take an item which can picklocks, which

(01:03:56):
can open handcuffs, which when straightened out, becomes a lethal weapon,
which stands for holding things together and unity. I'm suggesting
we all start wearing the paper clip as a signal

(01:04:18):
of our support for the anti trumpers as against the president.
I it's very simple. So I we're in this paper clip.
We all put on a paper clip. We can see
our sisters and brothers who are also not liking what's
going on in the country. We don't have the Maga hat,

(01:04:41):
but we have this sly, subtle, sneaky and at work.
If you're going to get in trouble, put it on
your pantcup or put it on your strap, out of
your back. What do you think.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
I like it multifunctional, that's going to be.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Well, Samantha. I want you to start wearing it right
now and and when you start wearing it, because we
need influencers to do it, and you too, got a
lot of influence. So if you will every day put
on a paper clip. You got one at Holm, you
probably got one there where you are and behind you.

(01:05:20):
I know you've got a paper clip in there somewhere.
That's the question. It's a mess back there. I'm I
think the paper clup. We need to recognize each other
and this is just subtle. You know, we got start
doing it. I like it, And for your listeners, clip
it on, babes, clip it on. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
I'm also really mad that Donald Trump ruined red hats.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Yeah, anybody is over.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Even if even if it doesn't say and I'm like,
this isn't fair. He shouldn't have gotten to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
You ruined the whole thing. He actually ruined the America flag,
to be fair.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
He's not ruining the paper clip.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
That question.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
This is a big This is a big symbol from
the World War Two. Yeah, this is what they wore
to show resistance to the Nazi occupation and wore paper
clips sell let's do it. Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Okay, Another thing I have to ask you, because you
do like? What is it about podcasts that you like?
Because you mentioned it before being a powerful tool? And
why do you have one?

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
St No, No, I'm a good guest, but I'm not
a host. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
You have your whole column that was asked.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
So I think you, I think you need to do
a podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
People ask you questions. Come on once a week, once
a week.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
I couldn't. I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
You know what you started at the top and you
were asking those questions.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
You're already there, You're already there.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
I can't know. No, I love the guests. I love
being a guest. I could not do it. First of all,
Almost half the questions that I answered in the twenty
some thirty years of writing an advice I change now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
They just we could revisit those questions.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Not me, man, No, no, I'm out of the advice business.
All I say now is yeah, do it?

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
Hey, that might be exactly what we need. That or
the fabulousness are you telling us yes?

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Do this?

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
Do it?

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Joy mankind do it?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Do it? That's it, that's all. Yeah, that's all we
need to do.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Yeah, that's a good podcast. I'm just there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Well, let us know if you decided to do it. Yes, and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Always, always, always, we would love to have you back.
There's so much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
We'd like to talk about. You guys are a gas
when you are a delight. Where can the good listeners
find you? You've got a lot going on, a lot
of books, a podcast, well, first of all work and
they find you because they can't find me unless they
can find you. So where are they finding you?

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
That's it. I feel like I've been a kind some
kind of mind trap question because if they're not listening.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
I know what's happening. I know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Well, listeners, you can find EJ. Carrol on a wonderful
episode of stuff I've Never told you, which is available
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
That's it that you can give me on the bookstore,
not my type and on substack e Gen Girl subset. Yes,
the world is on substack. Now are you guys on subseack?
Not yet? What podcast?

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Every day?

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
You literally do not have time to be on substack.
You don't have time.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
She has two podcasts, So I know that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
That would crazy and I don't understand it. I'm with you. Well,
you had to be very good at it, so you
do what you're good at. That's so do two of them.
Hell yeah, yeah, you do two of them. That's good.
So this is good. So you'll you'll you'll call me anytime,

(01:09:10):
please if.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
You give us that invitational Billy, you want to call
him this month? What about this month? So don't don't
open it too high, because I'm gonna need to be
in your fabulousness.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Oh, thank thank you, thank you thing. And also you
get a fill time you got here on here every day.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
It's more than just that, but yes, true, so much more.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for
being here.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
It's been a delight, it's been amazing, it's been fabulous.
Thank you so again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
Please go check out Eugene Carol and this book. It's
it's really really fantastic and her writing style is really wonderful.
So go check it out. If you would like to
contact us, you can. You can email us at hello
at stuff iever told you dot com. You can also
find us on Blue Sky. I'm also a podcast or
on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.

(01:10:02):
We're us on YouTube and we have a new place
you can get merch called Cotton Bureau, so check that out,
and we have a buck you can get where you
get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Chustena,
our executive producer and a contributor.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Joey, thank you, and thanks to you for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Stuff I Never Told You is production by Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
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