March 4, 2022 • 45 mins
There's a lot about the current state of dating we need to ditch, especially when it comes to the dangers women face in the dating world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steph.
I never told your production of I Heart Radio. So
for today's episode, we're going to do something a little different,
a little lass research or conversational, because we have some
(00:26):
vacationing happening here. Believe it or not, I know, right
February vacation time. I went to the beach with my mom.
I had a lovely time, but hilariously enough, she told
me she was trying to be very motherly and caring.
It was like, I think you need more vitamin D.
(00:47):
You don't go out enough during the pandemic. So I did,
and I stood at this place and she was like,
this is the best place, and I got suffered. So
if I look ridiculous, Samantha, that's why I don't mean
to insult you. Uh huh. You just look like got
freckled a little bit. I'm sorry, friend, that's that's fine.
(01:07):
You should have seen me when it first happened. Okay,
she laughed. My mom kept laughing every time I entered
the room, and then she felt bad for laughing at me.
But it was totally fair because it looked ridiculous. Not
that you would not want to be a lobster. But
I'm like, you still look pretty white to me. Okay, okay,
so except for like you got bing to freckles a
little bit. If you've got a little bit of hand
on the nose, I see it. I see it. Yeah.
(01:28):
My partner when he gets burned, I laugh all the time,
because usually he always gives burned when he thinks he's
fine and then he gets burned, and I'm like, I
told you so, so I have every right to laugh
at you because I told you so. This is typically.
I'm like, you earned this laughter in ridicule because you
did this to yourself type of situation. My vacation quote unquote,
(01:50):
which was for two days, was hopped up on some
diazepam and then some coding tyl and all because I
got my teeth extracted. You'll have bad teeth. I think
we've talked about this before, because we talked about the
entol appointments and caring for ourselves and then the pandemic,
and we're not gonna, definitely not going. I have started
my journey and fixing what is really bad teeth. Apparently,
(02:11):
the dentist who was actually a father of a very
good friend of mine so he was very kind of like,
please don't judge me. My teeth are bad. I was
malnourished until I was eight years old, bad calcium deficiencies,
so many things, lived in an orphanage. Try to tell
this whole story. And he's like a spine, it's fine.
Your teeth are great. Your teeth are great. Um. And
then he went and did X rays. He's like, Okay,
(02:32):
your teeth aren't great. We need to do these following things.
And I'm petrified of the dentist because I did have
to go to the dentist so often when I first
came into the US, I had to have a whole
specialist loss of teeth ticking out all those things. Um.
And I know it's pretty common for most people, I think,
to have somewhat of a fear of dentists. I'm sorry, dentists,
we love you, but ye, at the same time, we
(02:53):
fear you. But yeah, it's even still a little sword today.
But I've been very cautious and like doing all the
seeing and not too much when seeing and making sure
it's plotting all these things. But yeah, that was my
two day off. Yeah, right right, it's not quite the same.
(03:17):
I guess your sunburn in comparison to my teeth being extracted. Yeah,
but I've got you're going on this journey. I hope it. Yeah,
so far, so good. He really was like, you know,
for everything you've gone through and the fact that you've
not been to the dentist in years, you look pretty good.
The dental Hygena's there. She was wonderful, and she was like,
(03:38):
you need a water pick, and y'all life changing, not
a sponsor, life changing. I had one spot with my gums.
It's always swollen and always like really gross. My gums
are always bloody no matter what, after flossing, after brushing
my teeth, and I do this every day, so don't
judge me. It took me a long time to figure
it out, but you know, and I would just accept that.
(03:59):
Let my guns were grow. Of saying that I had
all kinds of problems with my teeth, you know, I
just accepted that. I would, you know, forever bleed. And
then the water pick. It took me a while to
figure out how to do it, and after like literally
three or four days, it just started clearing up. I
was like, oh my god, the stintal hidgena. She is
my hero. And I told her immediately because I went,
(04:19):
like I went for cleaning. The next week, I went
for the extraction, and she was like, how are how
are you doing? I was like, oh my god, and
I did and I was saying I love you. She no,
I love you. We had a whole exchange because I
felt like she told me this world opening secret with
this water pick. But just just so you know, that's awesome.
Oh the love forming everywhere, love forms everywhere. I'm into it?
(04:46):
Or does it? Or does it? Oh gosh, I'll get
into that in a second. Yeah. So this episode is
inspired actually by a separate trip I took recently with
a a good group of friends of mine where by
the way, there was a kincake, as it is our tradition,
and I they were teasing me about Star Wars related stuff,
(05:09):
of course, and I was like, I can find this
baby in this kincake. And I just ran my hand
over it, over the top and I stopped and I
was like, it's right here. That baby was right there.
You special, thank you, thank you, Samantha. They didn't seem
to see it that way, but that's thet you ad.
(05:32):
You told me about this at which point you were like,
you'll not that because I was like, you found the baby,
and You're like, well, yeah I did. I did. And
I can't believe they don't mean they don't believe that
means I'm for sensitive all right, whatever, I'm sorry, not
magic either, I'll accept. Okay, it's all good. But we
(05:55):
got to talking about bad dates that we had been on.
I texted you and I was like, we need to
talk about this because so many of them. I just
thought to myself, why why, why would anyone think this
is acceptable behavior. So we were just going to talk
(06:16):
about some of those things and some of our experiences.
But with that, we want to say, like we're focusing
on mostly funny things, funny bad dates, but we are
going to talk about some of the darker side of that,
because for a lot of women, a bad date is
not funny. It is scary and dangerous. And I heard
a lot of that when I was asking around around
(06:38):
my my female group of friends, of like, yeah, sure,
we've got these funny experiences, but a lot of them
are not funny at all, right at all? And in fact,
I became very outraged that this is sort of an accepted,
like I've always known that it's not like a surprise
to me, but I was just getting angry and angrier
(07:01):
that everybody, every woman I talked to you have this
truly horrendous like just I can't. It makes me very
mad that this is dating right, this is dat I
find it funny because you and I have talked about
this often, about the fact that it's to the point
(07:22):
that you and I are both like, Okay, we're good.
We're good and for me, I do have a partnership.
For me though, I think this is why our listeners
are like, I think you're a romantic and I get it,
but in the sense of like, as much as I
adore my partnership and we do work well, and the
circumstances that we have come to our good for us
(07:45):
and we are fine, there's definitely things that we need
to work on. There's a lot of miscommunication and we
are very I figured out where the same It's an
air sign and I feel like this could be telling
and we'll talk about that later in that if this
was not to work out, and in my mind, because
I've never been in this long of a relationship ever,
(08:08):
this is my first really long term relationship like and
again I say long term. Typically I would say beyond
eight months is a long term relationship for me, but
we have gone beyond that. We've gone into like four
to five. Maybe I don't really know because we don't
know a beginning date. This is how pay romantic I
probably am. We don't have dates, we don't celebrate things
like that. That's not a thing for me. So we've
(08:30):
been around for like four ish years together, maybe five years,
so we're going to really have about this. But even still,
we're not permanent. In my mind, nothing is permanent. Maybe
I'm just way too like Buddhist mindset in this, like
nothing is truly permanent. And even though I'm in a
partnership and I am very giving and I want to
(08:51):
include him and everything. So if I'm grocery shopping, I
always come back with a snack for him because I'm
always thinking about what can I get you, what can
I But I do that with you as well. If
you're coming over, I'm gonna go buy you something specific
for you. So I feel like if we live together,
I would still be doing this with you as well,
if that ever came to the point. But all of
(09:12):
that to say, it still doesn't mean it's gonna be permanent,
you know what I mean. So in my mindset, if
we were to break up, man, this is long winded.
In my mind, if we were to break up or
it does end, I don't want to try again. I
think it's like, Okay, I've had my run. I'm good single, single,
worse for me, singles cheaper true y I Oh my goodness,
(09:39):
You've touched on so many things I want to talk about.
Number one, the Jedi and attachment, which we are going
to talk about later, but you're kind of voicing the
whole thing. Number two. So when I was listening to
my friends talk about their experience dating, because I haven't
dated in a long time, Like I've gone on accidental dates,
but I have not purposefully dated in forever. So I
(10:01):
was hearing them tell their stories, and that was one
of my thoughts, is like, this is not worth it. No,
this is not worth it. And most of my friends
in this particular group, there's only one that's still trying.
But I have to too. In this set of data
points that I collected, which was, you know, pretty small,
(10:22):
but they're like, I'm done with it. I don't find
it fulfilling. I don't feel like I need it and
it's not worth it. And I want to say, like,
that is very personal case, and I know that having
fulfilling relationships is very important to everybody, even if that's
romantic or not romantic. But to hear that from people
(10:44):
who I've known for a long time, that tells me
the state of dating is not good, right, that's bad.
Like we're having women opt out of it by high margins.
And I know there have been reports on it a
lot recently where they're like, nobody is dating, no one
wants kids? Why? And I'm like, I got a lot
of examples. Right, you just need to talk to people, right,
(11:07):
just just talk to people about their experiences. And you know,
we've definitely talked about it in reference to political leaning,
So we've talked about it in reference to pandemics and
the quarantine shoot, even talking about the actual belief of
the pandemic that has separated a lot of people. I
feel like, and again, I know it's everywhere because California
(11:29):
and New York have also had to deal with this.
Maybe it's because we see more controversial people trying to
make things happen. But in the South is even more
divisive in Georgia of how often I would look in
my when I was dating, and like the twenty six
election happened, I was dating at that point in time
(11:49):
and any time. I think we've talked told the story
in all of these dating sites that if you said moderate,
you're automatically off my list. And I would look at
every white guy that came up on my page, looked
at what do they believe? If they didn't have politics
on there, you're also automatically out because I feel like
you did that on purpose for a written and if
(12:10):
you're from outside of Atlanta. I was super super cautious
outside of Atlanta and Savannah, honestly, and I was like, hm, hmmm,
you need to show you need to be able to
say this out loud, and if you don't, then there's
a reason and I can't have it. And that was
a huge, huge point. And I know we've talked about that.
I know Kristen and Caroline talked about that before us.
(12:33):
There's a huge hard red line now between what we
think it's acceptable and what wasn't acceptable. And I think
it's the same way for the conservative dating pool. If
you have anything I know one of the biggest triggering
words as people who put their pronouns um and that's
a sign to them as I've seen, so I think
it's on both lines where we're like, hell, no, cannot
(12:56):
make exceptions. This is the end, and that are like,
I have my own money, woman, with my own money
and career, I'm good. I'll just get a dog, thank you.
(13:22):
I mean, this is gonna be a lighter episode in
terms of research and both content, because as we said,
it could get really dark. But I've been thinking about
that a lot lately, where that sense of entitlements that
a lot of men feel when they're dating and I
have okay, I've got a text bread ready to go listeners, Like,
(13:45):
I was shocked that it's one thing to know it
until like hear it from your friends and think, how
could this person? How I think that this is okay.
It's one of those things where I feel like a
lot of men think they're entitled two sex, specifically in dating,
(14:08):
and a lot of women are like, you're treating as
like I'm fine by myself, and then that makes these
men feel angrier. Right, So I feel like it's a
really vicious cycle where you know if you go all
the way up to the in cell level of women
are denying me this and then it goes to violence.
(14:29):
But women are like on the other side, like, you're
not right, You're terrible date, but I don't feel comfortable
with you, We're safe with you, we're happy with you.
So I'm just going to opt out because I don't
need it. So we're it's like we're creating something that's
very toxic in a lot of ways with these messages
and on that darker side because I am the negative
(14:51):
of the bunch. I think a part of this when
we talk about all of that really scared just just
scary dates. We don't even want to try anymore because
we've been scared. There's some things that's like I'm uncomfortable.
But we're also coming out loud and saying these men
that you were talking about are toxic. They may come
off as cool, but they're not. So I am finding
(15:11):
the joy slash the positivity and that women are acknowledging
and finally coming to the point of like, oh my god, yeah,
that was a really toxic way of dating. That was gaslighting.
Like knowing these terms and being able to acknowledge what
that was, what type of date that was talking about. Oh,
it's a red flag when a dude comes here and
talks about how his ex girlfriend was quote unquote crazy,
(15:33):
and that's a red flag. Thank you for letting me
know and being able to connect with each other's on
social media like I love the west elm dude, do
you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, And then they
were able to share don't date this dude, west down
Caleb is bad. Like it was hilarious to see it unfold,
(15:55):
but it truly is like this is kind of a positive. Yes,
we're joking about it, but at the same time, it's
true we try to let women know and that whole
narrative of women against women are slowly at least like darkening,
and we were able to see the light of it.
I'll be like, huh, that's not a good thing. And
then you should be supporting each other. So that is
a positive. But also why I think that we're a
(16:16):
little more cautious and dating because we are sharing with
each other. This is a red flag. This dude is
a red flag. Watch out for this, Yes, And I
think I think that's a positive sign as well. And
I think that even were that we're having this conversation
of you know, bad dates that we've had with presumably
mostly men in this particular conversation, but it does make
(16:40):
me sad because I had one friend who sent me
a list of her like bad dates and I was like, oh,
I'm thinking about do you know, maybe do an episode
on this, and she's like, well, you should probably know.
Ultimately they ended in these really horrific ways, like it
was funny but then right horrifically, and she said, she said,
(17:03):
but I've learned a lot. That just broke my heart,
Like you shouldn't. There should not be a situation where
we're talking about women and marginalized people. You have to learn,
like that's the lesson, that's just a part of it.
And I felt that too. I thought that, and I
have felt that, and I hate that. I think that's awful.
(17:26):
I do too. Recently, I just saw, my god, my
references in TikTok is overwhelming. But that is my thing now.
A conversation in which this dude, very much, you're burly,
I live in the mountains, aren't I cool? Fifty something
year old man yelling at another dude who was doing
(17:46):
some of the work say like, these are the things
that women have to look out for, and these are
the things that we should change his men. So I
love that content, right, But the dude was like, hey, man,
you're making this worse. You're kind of the CRT argument,
which we should talk about later, not this episode. Uh
says you know, you're teaching women to be afraid of men.
You're telling people to be afraid. And then he was
like you know, the dude who was a good ally
(18:09):
and listener. I was like, no, no, dude, that's that's wrong.
This is why you're wrong, and trying to correct me, like, no,
women are not taught to be scared because we're telling
them something new is not something new. They've taught this
and learned us throughout the years and have to advise
each other to protect themselves. And if we were truly men,
like you're saying that we are men as quote unquote protectors,
(18:31):
we wouldn't have to have this conversation. Also, by the way,
what we're protecting women from our men? Right, So like
both of those conversations and I'm like, yeah, exactly, Like
this conversation is that we are afraid of men, especially
when we're talking about this in very heteronormative sis conversation,
(18:55):
and therefore have learned lessons on how to protect ourselves
from men. When we're not able to fully protect ourselves
and try to get justice, we are told it is
our fault because we have not learned lessons and protecting
ourselves from men. So I found this whole narrative and
very interesting, and I'm like, yeah, this is cyclical. We
(19:16):
need to come back to what the problem is men.
And I get it not all men. I don't give me,
I don't give. I don't give any kind of flying whatsoever.
Stick it up your ass, don't care. That's how I
feel about this when we had this conversation. What it
comes down to is women who date men are afraid
of men because of the situations that they have been
(19:38):
put by men. And therefore, when we try to protect
ourselves or at least get our justice, we are being
told that we're not being womanly enough in order to
let the men have what they want even if we
are in fear, and that they are the ones that
will protect us to let us know when we should
be fearful, as told by the patriarchy, which again is well, yes, yes, agreed, agreed, agreed,
(20:01):
and and it's so many of the things that I
heard from people was like very victim blaming to themselves,
like I shouldn't have done this, I should have known better.
But I'm like, this is still And I asked, who
thought he could do this to you? And that was okay, Right.
That's the part that hurts me the most in these
(20:24):
conversations is they always interject in telling their stories with
I shouldn't have done this. I know, I shouldn't have
warned this, I shouldn't have said this, I shouldn't have gone.
I shouldn't even done this, whether it's being alone with them,
whether it's assuming that you could walk down the street
alone with them, whether it's saying goodbye yeah and not
(20:44):
trying to be nice and being told if I'm not nice,
then I'm a bit and I don't want to be
seen as a bit or. And and you and I
have talked about this, engaging in a sexual activity that
you did not want to right, because they will not leave. Um,
are you're afraid of violence which is not consent? Right?
(21:08):
Are you just given? After saying no so many times? Yes, yes? Oh?
It makes me so mad, Like if this is what
dating is. We've got to much work to do, we
have so much to do, and we have gone down
that dark road. But once again, I do want to
(21:29):
come back into this positivity. And like, even though your
friend has gone through so many bad situations to things,
she has not given in and just settled And I
love that. And also she's still trying, which is to
me the biggest strength I can see because I have
a good friend of mine as well, um, and she's
(21:52):
a lesbian and she's been dating and dating and dating.
She doesn't have this same horrific but just not finding
someone who is compatible to her, and she has gone
on so many days and she's so hopeful and she's
so beautiful, and I'm like, how do you do this?
And she's just like, I think it's still I think
I'll find someone. I think it'll be okay. I really
hope that happens. I believe that for her because she
(22:12):
believes that and she deserves it, yeah, point blank, and
is an amazing person and deserves that happiness. But that's
exactly like I admire people's hopefulness in this darkness. Yeah,
And I say darkness very blankly because I again like
I said, if this were to win, my partnership is over.
(22:34):
I'm done. I'm done. I'm going to get two more dogs. Yeah,
And I think that's been another part of it that's
been kind of heartbreaking for me. And I know we're
going to revisit an upcoming happy hour that's going to
be mostly Star Wars based, of course, of course, and
fan fiction based, but actually, like a few Sex and
the City episodes I've seen, I often think of the
(22:57):
one of the ones I saw was I don't really
remember the context, but Charlotte was saying in an event
like I'm trying to find nick, I can't find someone.
I'm trying to find someone in the person at the
event said you need to put yourself out there, and
carry said, oh, she she's out there, like she has
put herself out there. Wait have we seen that episode yet? No?
This is when I've seen. This is when I've seen
(23:19):
like one of the three that I've seen, And I
think about that often, and I think about that with
my friend, where I'm like, to me, it's not very important.
So sometimes I feel like I can be like I
don't think cold is the right word, but kind of
just like um, but to her, this is so important,
(23:41):
like finding somebody, and she really wants that, and this
is the situation she has to deal with. Right, just
really upsets me. Right, I agreed. I think that that's
that's someone that the conversations you know that we've had
my friends who are seeking, Really, do you feel like
(24:01):
there's a part of the missing and whatever else. I
may think as a person, as a woman, as any
of these things, her feelings are valid, and if that's
what she feels, then okay, I will support her, m
h and hope for the best for her. And if
I find someone, I'm like, hey, I've got you someone,
I will be that person because that's what she wants.
(24:24):
And that's okay. Once again, any of these things. So
as as you and I are happy in our womanhood, selfness, individualness,
I would not. I can't say I'm single. I'm not single,
but in my selfness I am happy either way. I
would never say that everyone wants that. Um As In fact,
(24:44):
I had this conversation with my knees, my beautiful niece Gracie.
Hello again, I keep shouting around, don't I, But she
and I just recently had this whole conversation about dating,
and she was like, you know, I dated a lot
and she just graduated college. She's a young un I
love her to death. I love her, lover her lover.
And she was like, I think I'm done. I've dated
a lot through my college and through my high school years.
(25:06):
I feel like I've gotten that out of the way
and now I'm happy to be here. And I'm like,
you know what, I love that for you. I love
that for you. It took me till twenty three to
start dating, twenty two to start dating, and then I
almost quit twenty seven. M it's a little older than her,
so I think I went through my face because I
was like, oh, this is happy, fun, fun fun. I'm
over it. But yeah, she she is kind of getting
(25:29):
to that point as well, and watching her friends dating,
dating around and she's adorable by the way she's newly
single and like out there figuring out her life and
I love that for her and trying to find herself
and like she's now finding herself as independent. How long
that'll last, we don't know. And if she does change
her mind, that's beautiful too, and that's what we got
(25:51):
to look at. Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny. Because people
have asked me for advice on relations ships, and it's
funny to me because I'm kind of learning I don't
ask me for advice. I think it's smart. I don't
know about that. They don't, and it's okay. I would
(26:12):
say the same about me. But I think where I've
always landed is personally, I'm somebody who's not looking. But
if it happened to come my way, I'd be open,
you know, like, yeah, I don't. It's not something that
it like occupies my brain, as I know it does
for some of my friends, and I'm not judging that
(26:33):
at all, but also like i'd be open to it
if I happen to be I think this could work.
That's sort of where I am. Yeah, the natural beds,
and I know we talked a lot about individual hood
because again, like I said, I'm not single, so I
can't say singleness. We will also have a conversation about
happy marriages and happy, happy togetherness, so I don't think
(26:54):
we're one sided on this level. Like I said, I
am in a couple hood. I often tell any that
we're in a throuble. As my partner said, because you
came over for our Valentine's Days, Like it's like you
two are in a relationship. Just look at him, yep,
and just moved on. So I mean that's the thing
part of this conversation too, is relationships can look different ways.
(27:17):
It doesn't have to be this one way. But he
is as happy as I am in this and that
level of like commandre that we have as a group.
Because that sounded very like one sided, it's not, and
there's nothing necessarily romantic or sexual about it. But it's
beautiful and it's a relationship and I love this. Yeah,
I say, I'm happy with that me too. And I
(27:39):
think that's a key point that I'm hearing, Like when
we joke about the compound commune that I know some
of you have written in about it, it's touching on
what we're talking about though, wherein we have these relationships
where we feel safe and comfortable and known with other
women are just friends, and that's I see more and
(28:01):
more women turning that way, and it's unfortunate in this
sense that yes, this is a toxic dating soup, heteronormative
dating soup, and I don't want because I want people
to be happy and find you know, whoever it is,
(28:21):
but I have so many friends who are like you
know what, I got my good lady friends, so that's fine.
We can just be together absolutely, like my whole thing
has been. Again, we've talked about this before, I'll reiterate
because our age group, and I'm putting you with my
age group, even though we're not of the same generation.
It's okay that we have come to the point where
(28:46):
family slash children slash couplehood is not always what is
perfect or the main relationship for us and our goals,
and that has changed vastly. My mom, whom I love,
got married at a very very very young age, and
her only friend literally were her children and her husband
(29:06):
for a little while, and then she finally reconnected after
some of her children left. Several of our children left
to her own sister, which they were always close, but
they just just didn't have a time obviously, as she
had so many children and was young trying to care
for her family. And then it came to the point
that she ended up having another close relationship with her
and is now a part of this giant lady's Bible study.
(29:28):
That's a whole different conversation, but she has a group
she has a group of friends that she sees outside
of her husband, and because her children are alone no
longer there and she's no longer the caregivers to raising children,
her relationship has changed. But it took a long time
to be able to get to that point because her
focus was her family and that's what she wanted because
(29:48):
her family life was difficult growing up, and then she
kind of created one that she wanted of her own
and it did. It wasn't wonderful, but it was pretty
close to what she had envisioned. Her my sister are
very very close. She would talk about how they are
best friends, and they really were, and then I came
in with all of my issues and could not connect
to her, and she couldn't figure out why because she
(30:11):
desperately had a fantasy of our relationship. It wasn't happening.
But all that kind of broke away for her when
my sister got married and left and started her own family,
so she started to reevaluate that friendship group that she
didn't have. And I really think that's the difference is
that I have come to the point that I was like,
I have not been married. Marriage is not my goal
(30:32):
in life, as in fact, even at forty something, marriage
is frightening to me. I'm like, why, what's the purpose,
what's the point. I'm very happy and established where I am.
If I have someone to share my life, that's wonderful,
but it doesn't need to be on paper or a name,
or in monetary sharing or any of that. Because I
also am very happy in my friend group. Again, this
(30:53):
may have something to do in the reactive attachment disorder.
That's a whole different conversation, which I don't trust parental figures,
a couple of figures, male species in general, Like I'm
gonna put that out there because I was very traumatized
by men in general. So therefore I trust women, and
I trust women in my friend group explicitly for the
(31:13):
longest time, and I valued that as my family. And
I'm sure so many of y'all understand that agree with that,
because there's something to that familiarity of growing together. Of course,
there's some things that are the stereotypical things that have
happened in relationships and we've had to grow out of
because we realized, hey, this is the patriarch, try to
(31:34):
keep us down. Let's not play into this anymore. And
once we discovered that I found this established group which
are and our focus was different. Our focus was different
from our mothers, from our parents, from our grandparents, and
and learning that I don't necessarily want children and that's okay,
I don't necessarily want your nuclear family, which, by the way,
(31:55):
I just saw an article about how that has become unpopular. Now,
oh really, Yeah, so that's a whole different conversation. And
the fact that we have chosen to establish ourselves as
people as individuals, and when I say we, I mean
women and folks who identify as women. That's what we
(32:18):
are looking at today is to actually be okay and
being happy in ourselves for ourselves. One of the things
(32:40):
that we're kind of skirting around. We're talking about it,
but we can't go in depth on it in this
particular episode. But is this kind of what we talked
about in deb cod Like there's their ranged marriage trope,
Like we realized there is a gender and balance at play,
and so a lots of women are opting out again
(33:05):
because it is and has been historically skewed towards benefiting
men more and not like financially, but also just like
who's doing that the childcare and like all those things.
And so it's been interesting with my mom because her
husband died and hearing her talk about like I've just
(33:26):
I don't want to date anymore. I don't want to
date anybody ever again because it's nice to just think
about me, which sounds selfish, but she took her her
whole life was about exactly. But I think she feels
guilty about it, like, no, you're you spent your whole
life thinking about other people. Take your do your puzzle.
(33:52):
She loves puzzles. Okay, I still say your mom and
I need to hang out because we would just blew
puzzles and she's awesome. But yeah, and that's this is
the thing I will say. I think this is the
other part to that is the reason we're talking about
all of this. We are talking about bad days and
bad experiences, and yes, we promised we are going to
share some and I hope y'all will respond and share
(34:14):
some about your stories with us, because we do want
to hear I try to do this on Twitter, y'all
let me know, do you'll if you're on Twitter, do
you see our stuff? Because I have a feeling we've
been banned because we're not very good at Twitter. Let
us know if you ever see our stuff. We don't
post a lot. But I just wondered anyway, but did
I ever tell you this? So in my dating thing
(34:34):
and in my unit, I've talked about that, we had
both thought we would have babies at that point. We
would be in our nuclear family, We would be supporting
our husband's y'all. This is for real and be a
part of that family life that we are now I
am now so petrified of because I'm like, why is that? Nope,
I'm good. But people who do it are beautiful, by
(34:56):
the way. This is no shame a shade on them,
because I do love babies. I do love babies, and
then I give them back on what you're gonna have
it back. But the people who are a part of
that family, I love them and they are so beautiful.
We love y'all, moms. We do, We really do. But
all of that to say, when I was in this
(35:16):
world of I need to start dating, I actually kept
a log of my days. I tell you this, like
I started like a short story level uh, describing my dates.
Oh did I ever tell you that? No? Oh, dear though,
oh girl, And I will say Lanna has their own
(35:37):
uh west elm Caleb. I believe because my dating group
we all kind of talked about one dude, which is
quite funny. Um, I'm wonder, I mean, there has to
be so many of those, right, I actually have a
question about this. I yes, as I said, I've never
dated online. Is there I'm assuming there's a function where
(35:57):
you can be like, this person is terrible, get them
off of here? So the only function that you can
truly report no, Okay, see, I'm so I'm so out
because I have not been on a dating site for again,
twe seventeen was probably my last. I kind of want
to log in now. I just want to know my
(36:19):
last dates and at that point in time, and we've
talked about it before, because we've talked about Bumble, Bumble
was the only one that would actually ban people from
their site for harassment or dick pis. I don't know
if if policies have changed. We also know that Bumble
came after tenders creators split and the dude from Tinder
(36:40):
really went after the woman who helped create Bumble and
tender um gaslighting her, threatening her, harassing her, and then
she finally left filed a suit from them and created
Bumble on her own, which is a multimillion dollar side
as well, and it is based on women taking charge,
which still have a hard time with because I am
(37:02):
still really insecure. Um, I was very insecure on that.
So I think that was at that point in time.
Different sites had different UH stipulations, so and I don't
know how many exists today because I'm sure there's so many,
(37:22):
and I've told before. I remember Plenty of Fish was
so overwhelming, and it maybe because yes on Asian and
the amount of Asian fetishism within it was overwhelming. But
I remember I started one day because someone had told
me they had success. I opened up my own profile.
Within that day, I had, I want to say, like
(37:45):
over three hundred messages and I had never been so
overwhelmed in my life that I shut that down so
quickly and never got back on again. Obviously, he's they're
not a sponsor because they weren't as a sponsor Chinge
at one point. I'm who was a sponsor right at
that point, not sponsoring this show was overly complicated, and
(38:08):
I think I think they have changed since then, But
essentially was it hinged on whether or not you had
mutual friends, which I actually really did appreciate, but then
you started to understand a little more like, oh no,
I don't want to ask them normal on this dating
site because there was still that weird like, I don't
judge me for being on a dating site type of thing.
(38:30):
So Hinge was a little more like and so therefore
if you said not to too many, you just kind
of right out of people. I ran out of people.
Oh no, yea Hinge Tender scared me a lot because
it was known for the hookup site. I did date
one person. I think I went on one day with
him and it was a good date. Nothing came out
(38:52):
of it, so that was that bumble. I did made
a couple of people, but because I do not have
the self confidence to actually strike up a conversation and
be with the sure wasn't very successful. Although bumble and
I'm I'm assuming other sites had to had the option
to make friends and networking, so I did like that. Yeah,
I didn't really appreciate that. Again, women creators, but I
(39:18):
will say, okay, Cupid, which also was a sponsor, was
my favorite. And I did say this, this is not
a sponsored episode, even though they were a sponsor once
upon a time because the questions if I went to
and look at four specific questions that were very like
obviously racial, like one of the questions where would you
date outside of your race? That wasn't automatic? And and
(39:40):
if people who said yes to me like they picked
me as it said someone they liked, which it shows,
but said that said no on that what that meant
immediate block like things like they were asking heavy duty questions,
very specific questions. And I really appreciated those questionnaires because
I went looked it up and based on whether or
(40:01):
not we would match on those so so that all
of those sites are very very different. Yeah, it seems
exhausting to me, but again I understand some people have
told me it's like fun like a gametrition Did you
ever have you? Did you enjoy dating? Okay, so there
(40:22):
was a moment that I really did enjoy. There were
times that I really were was excited after the initial
day and I was connected with someone, It felt nice,
It felt good to be able to come together. You
kind of already knew our interests, so we already had
a common ground. And because I've only honestly, I've only
really dated off of dating sites. I went on one
(40:45):
blind date, never again. The partner I date I am
with today. We met because we're neighbors, so that was
also off of online. He's also the younger than me,
so would not have been in my pick because you
have to do an I'm very yeah, so we would
have never met on dating sites. That's interesting, But all
(41:06):
of that to say, I did enjoy those moments of
being able to have a conversation get to know people, like,
if it was fun, it was really fun. If it
wasn't fun, it was really bad, Like it was just
those There was really no middle ground I did go on.
I guess there was a middle ground, and that I
always tried to go on a second date with someone
that did immediately offend me, right because I didn't want
(41:32):
to be overly picky, but typically right, Okay, I feel
like for me, I've never enjoyed dating, but I did,
and this is a whole different conversation. I did enjoy
feeling like someone was attracted to me. I did enjoy
(41:55):
the thought that like people were interested men specifically, although
some women up in there um that I liked, But
I really didn't want to do the actual dating part.
Other than I like having fun with people. Fun dab
like for me is like literally, let's play a board
game or like fun. But you've had crushes, like legitimate
(42:18):
crushes on people to face? Yeah, yes, I crush hard actually,
but it's usually pretty like a bright flare and it
goes away pretty quickly. And I've had some that were
lasted longer. And I tried to envisualize, like what would
our relationship look like and would there be a physical
part to it? And it was very difficult for me
(42:40):
to envision, but I did like thinking about it. It
was kind of a fun day dream of what if,
what if it would work? Do you have a rush
today on anyone that we know, a real person? Yes,
a real person. I do not, but I will tell
(43:01):
you I've had them. I get him on. I just
like people. It's weird, like I I generally have had
a crush on almost everyone I don't know passes. Yes,
I just get I get like a huge crush. I'm like,
oh my my god, dude, I can't believe they're giving
(43:22):
me the time of jay. I love them so much.
I think they're the best, Like I get them and
and then they generally passed. But I do. I experience
crushes a lot. Actually, well, I love and admire you
in general. Yeah, time you too, My goodness. All right, So,
the original idea for this episode was to be a very,
(43:45):
as we said at the top, lightly research, fun conversational thing.
It turns out Samantha and I have a lot to
say about that. We've been through some things and we've
seen something apparently, have a lot of all of you,
I'm sure, and a lot of the people who contacted
us and told us their stories, and we just wanted
to give this the proper context because we understand that
(44:09):
bad date can mean a lot and what we meant
to go for with something very funny, but we can't
ignore that it's often not that for women. So with
that being said, originally we were just going to have
kind of like a brief thing about dating and then
a conversation about bad dates. We haven't gotten to that
(44:29):
part yet, and it's already quite long, so we're going
to split this into a two parter, uh and tune
in for the second part to hear more about our
thoughts on dating and some of our very our very
own specific bad dating stories, which we have quite a few.
To choose from Yes, so tune in for part two.
(44:51):
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode,
and as always, we would love to hear from you.
If you've got thoughts, bad dating stories you want to share,
please send them our away. Our email is Stuffitie and
mom Stuff at iHeart me dot com. You can find
us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You or
on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks It's always to
our super producer Christina. Oh yeah, we need all of
the stories. Maybe we can begin a part three, right Christina. Yes, yes, Christina,
(45:17):
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
You s production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast
on my heart radio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or where you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steph.
I never told your production of I Heart Radio. So
for today's episode, we're going to do something a little different,
a little lass research or conversational, because we have some
(00:26):
vacationing happening here. Believe it or not, I know, right
February vacation time. I went to the beach with my mom.
I had a lovely time, but hilariously enough, she told
me she was trying to be very motherly and caring.
It was like, I think you need more vitamin D.
(00:47):
You don't go out enough during the pandemic. So I did,
and I stood at this place and she was like,
this is the best place, and I got suffered. So
if I look ridiculous, Samantha, that's why I don't mean
to insult you. Uh huh. You just look like got
freckled a little bit. I'm sorry, friend, that's that's fine.
(01:07):
You should have seen me when it first happened. Okay,
she laughed. My mom kept laughing every time I entered
the room, and then she felt bad for laughing at me.
But it was totally fair because it looked ridiculous. Not
that you would not want to be a lobster. But
I'm like, you still look pretty white to me. Okay, okay,
so except for like you got bing to freckles a
little bit. If you've got a little bit of hand
on the nose, I see it. I see it. Yeah.
(01:28):
My partner when he gets burned, I laugh all the time,
because usually he always gives burned when he thinks he's
fine and then he gets burned, and I'm like, I
told you so, so I have every right to laugh
at you because I told you so. This is typically.
I'm like, you earned this laughter in ridicule because you
did this to yourself type of situation. My vacation quote unquote,
(01:50):
which was for two days, was hopped up on some
diazepam and then some coding tyl and all because I
got my teeth extracted. You'll have bad teeth. I think
we've talked about this before, because we talked about the
entol appointments and caring for ourselves and then the pandemic,
and we're not gonna, definitely not going. I have started
my journey and fixing what is really bad teeth. Apparently,
(02:11):
the dentist who was actually a father of a very
good friend of mine so he was very kind of like,
please don't judge me. My teeth are bad. I was
malnourished until I was eight years old, bad calcium deficiencies,
so many things, lived in an orphanage. Try to tell
this whole story. And he's like a spine, it's fine.
Your teeth are great. Your teeth are great. Um. And
then he went and did X rays. He's like, Okay,
(02:32):
your teeth aren't great. We need to do these following things.
And I'm petrified of the dentist because I did have
to go to the dentist so often when I first
came into the US, I had to have a whole
specialist loss of teeth ticking out all those things. Um.
And I know it's pretty common for most people, I think,
to have somewhat of a fear of dentists. I'm sorry, dentists,
we love you, but ye, at the same time, we
(02:53):
fear you. But yeah, it's even still a little sword today.
But I've been very cautious and like doing all the
seeing and not too much when seeing and making sure
it's plotting all these things. But yeah, that was my
two day off. Yeah, right right, it's not quite the same.
(03:17):
I guess your sunburn in comparison to my teeth being extracted. Yeah,
but I've got you're going on this journey. I hope it. Yeah,
so far, so good. He really was like, you know,
for everything you've gone through and the fact that you've
not been to the dentist in years, you look pretty good.
The dental Hygena's there. She was wonderful, and she was like,
(03:38):
you need a water pick, and y'all life changing, not
a sponsor, life changing. I had one spot with my gums.
It's always swollen and always like really gross. My gums
are always bloody no matter what, after flossing, after brushing
my teeth, and I do this every day, so don't
judge me. It took me a long time to figure
it out, but you know, and I would just accept that.
(03:59):
Let my guns were grow. Of saying that I had
all kinds of problems with my teeth, you know, I
just accepted that. I would, you know, forever bleed. And
then the water pick. It took me a while to
figure out how to do it, and after like literally
three or four days, it just started clearing up. I
was like, oh my god, the stintal hidgena. She is
my hero. And I told her immediately because I went,
(04:19):
like I went for cleaning. The next week, I went
for the extraction, and she was like, how are how
are you doing? I was like, oh my god, and
I did and I was saying I love you. She no,
I love you. We had a whole exchange because I
felt like she told me this world opening secret with
this water pick. But just just so you know, that's awesome.
Oh the love forming everywhere, love forms everywhere. I'm into it?
(04:46):
Or does it? Or does it? Oh gosh, I'll get
into that in a second. Yeah. So this episode is
inspired actually by a separate trip I took recently with
a a good group of friends of mine where by
the way, there was a kincake, as it is our tradition,
and I they were teasing me about Star Wars related stuff,
(05:09):
of course, and I was like, I can find this
baby in this kincake. And I just ran my hand
over it, over the top and I stopped and I
was like, it's right here. That baby was right there.
You special, thank you, thank you, Samantha. They didn't seem
to see it that way, but that's thet you ad.
(05:32):
You told me about this at which point you were like,
you'll not that because I was like, you found the baby,
and You're like, well, yeah I did. I did. And
I can't believe they don't mean they don't believe that
means I'm for sensitive all right, whatever, I'm sorry, not
magic either, I'll accept. Okay, it's all good. But we
(05:55):
got to talking about bad dates that we had been on.
I texted you and I was like, we need to
talk about this because so many of them. I just
thought to myself, why why, why would anyone think this
is acceptable behavior. So we were just going to talk
(06:16):
about some of those things and some of our experiences.
But with that, we want to say, like we're focusing
on mostly funny things, funny bad dates, but we are
going to talk about some of the darker side of that,
because for a lot of women, a bad date is
not funny. It is scary and dangerous. And I heard
a lot of that when I was asking around around
(06:38):
my my female group of friends, of like, yeah, sure,
we've got these funny experiences, but a lot of them
are not funny at all, right at all? And in fact,
I became very outraged that this is sort of an accepted,
like I've always known that it's not like a surprise
to me, but I was just getting angry and angrier
(07:01):
that everybody, every woman I talked to you have this
truly horrendous like just I can't. It makes me very
mad that this is dating right, this is dat I
find it funny because you and I have talked about
this often, about the fact that it's to the point
(07:22):
that you and I are both like, Okay, we're good.
We're good and for me, I do have a partnership.
For me though, I think this is why our listeners
are like, I think you're a romantic and I get it,
but in the sense of like, as much as I
adore my partnership and we do work well, and the
circumstances that we have come to our good for us
(07:45):
and we are fine, there's definitely things that we need
to work on. There's a lot of miscommunication and we
are very I figured out where the same It's an
air sign and I feel like this could be telling
and we'll talk about that later in that if this
was not to work out, and in my mind, because
I've never been in this long of a relationship ever,
(08:08):
this is my first really long term relationship like and
again I say long term. Typically I would say beyond
eight months is a long term relationship for me, but
we have gone beyond that. We've gone into like four
to five. Maybe I don't really know because we don't
know a beginning date. This is how pay romantic I
probably am. We don't have dates, we don't celebrate things
like that. That's not a thing for me. So we've
(08:30):
been around for like four ish years together, maybe five years,
so we're going to really have about this. But even still,
we're not permanent. In my mind, nothing is permanent. Maybe
I'm just way too like Buddhist mindset in this, like
nothing is truly permanent. And even though I'm in a
partnership and I am very giving and I want to
(08:51):
include him and everything. So if I'm grocery shopping, I
always come back with a snack for him because I'm
always thinking about what can I get you, what can
I But I do that with you as well. If
you're coming over, I'm gonna go buy you something specific
for you. So I feel like if we live together,
I would still be doing this with you as well,
if that ever came to the point. But all of
(09:12):
that to say, it still doesn't mean it's gonna be permanent,
you know what I mean. So in my mindset, if
we were to break up, man, this is long winded.
In my mind, if we were to break up or
it does end, I don't want to try again. I
think it's like, Okay, I've had my run. I'm good single, single,
worse for me, singles cheaper true y I Oh my goodness,
(09:39):
You've touched on so many things I want to talk about.
Number one, the Jedi and attachment, which we are going
to talk about later, but you're kind of voicing the
whole thing. Number two. So when I was listening to
my friends talk about their experience dating, because I haven't
dated in a long time, Like I've gone on accidental dates,
but I have not purposefully dated in forever. So I
(10:01):
was hearing them tell their stories, and that was one
of my thoughts, is like, this is not worth it. No,
this is not worth it. And most of my friends
in this particular group, there's only one that's still trying.
But I have to too. In this set of data
points that I collected, which was, you know, pretty small,
(10:22):
but they're like, I'm done with it. I don't find
it fulfilling. I don't feel like I need it and
it's not worth it. And I want to say, like,
that is very personal case, and I know that having
fulfilling relationships is very important to everybody, even if that's
romantic or not romantic. But to hear that from people
(10:44):
who I've known for a long time, that tells me
the state of dating is not good, right, that's bad.
Like we're having women opt out of it by high margins.
And I know there have been reports on it a
lot recently where they're like, nobody is dating, no one
wants kids? Why? And I'm like, I got a lot
of examples. Right, you just need to talk to people, right,
(11:07):
just just talk to people about their experiences. And you know,
we've definitely talked about it in reference to political leaning,
So we've talked about it in reference to pandemics and
the quarantine shoot, even talking about the actual belief of
the pandemic that has separated a lot of people. I
feel like, and again, I know it's everywhere because California
(11:29):
and New York have also had to deal with this.
Maybe it's because we see more controversial people trying to
make things happen. But in the South is even more
divisive in Georgia of how often I would look in
my when I was dating, and like the twenty six
election happened, I was dating at that point in time
(11:49):
and any time. I think we've talked told the story
in all of these dating sites that if you said moderate,
you're automatically off my list. And I would look at
every white guy that came up on my page, looked
at what do they believe? If they didn't have politics
on there, you're also automatically out because I feel like
you did that on purpose for a written and if
(12:10):
you're from outside of Atlanta. I was super super cautious
outside of Atlanta and Savannah, honestly, and I was like, hm, hmmm,
you need to show you need to be able to
say this out loud, and if you don't, then there's
a reason and I can't have it. And that was
a huge, huge point. And I know we've talked about that.
I know Kristen and Caroline talked about that before us.
(12:33):
There's a huge hard red line now between what we
think it's acceptable and what wasn't acceptable. And I think
it's the same way for the conservative dating pool. If
you have anything I know one of the biggest triggering
words as people who put their pronouns um and that's
a sign to them as I've seen, so I think
it's on both lines where we're like, hell, no, cannot
(12:56):
make exceptions. This is the end, and that are like,
I have my own money, woman, with my own money
and career, I'm good. I'll just get a dog, thank you.
(13:22):
I mean, this is gonna be a lighter episode in
terms of research and both content, because as we said,
it could get really dark. But I've been thinking about
that a lot lately, where that sense of entitlements that
a lot of men feel when they're dating and I
have okay, I've got a text bread ready to go listeners, Like,
(13:45):
I was shocked that it's one thing to know it
until like hear it from your friends and think, how
could this person? How I think that this is okay.
It's one of those things where I feel like a
lot of men think they're entitled two sex, specifically in dating,
(14:08):
and a lot of women are like, you're treating as
like I'm fine by myself, and then that makes these
men feel angrier. Right, So I feel like it's a
really vicious cycle where you know if you go all
the way up to the in cell level of women
are denying me this and then it goes to violence.
(14:29):
But women are like on the other side, like, you're
not right, You're terrible date, but I don't feel comfortable
with you, We're safe with you, we're happy with you.
So I'm just going to opt out because I don't
need it. So we're it's like we're creating something that's
very toxic in a lot of ways with these messages
and on that darker side because I am the negative
(14:51):
of the bunch. I think a part of this when
we talk about all of that really scared just just
scary dates. We don't even want to try anymore because
we've been scared. There's some things that's like I'm uncomfortable.
But we're also coming out loud and saying these men
that you were talking about are toxic. They may come
off as cool, but they're not. So I am finding
(15:11):
the joy slash the positivity and that women are acknowledging
and finally coming to the point of like, oh my god, yeah,
that was a really toxic way of dating. That was gaslighting.
Like knowing these terms and being able to acknowledge what
that was, what type of date that was talking about. Oh,
it's a red flag when a dude comes here and
talks about how his ex girlfriend was quote unquote crazy,
(15:33):
and that's a red flag. Thank you for letting me
know and being able to connect with each other's on
social media like I love the west elm dude, do
you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, And then they
were able to share don't date this dude, west down
Caleb is bad. Like it was hilarious to see it unfold,
(15:55):
but it truly is like this is kind of a positive. Yes,
we're joking about it, but at the same time, it's
true we try to let women know and that whole
narrative of women against women are slowly at least like darkening,
and we were able to see the light of it.
I'll be like, huh, that's not a good thing. And
then you should be supporting each other. So that is
a positive. But also why I think that we're a
(16:16):
little more cautious and dating because we are sharing with
each other. This is a red flag. This dude is
a red flag. Watch out for this, Yes, And I
think I think that's a positive sign as well. And
I think that even were that we're having this conversation
of you know, bad dates that we've had with presumably
mostly men in this particular conversation, but it does make
(16:40):
me sad because I had one friend who sent me
a list of her like bad dates and I was like, oh,
I'm thinking about do you know, maybe do an episode
on this, and she's like, well, you should probably know.
Ultimately they ended in these really horrific ways, like it
was funny but then right horrifically, and she said, she said,
(17:03):
but I've learned a lot. That just broke my heart,
Like you shouldn't. There should not be a situation where
we're talking about women and marginalized people. You have to learn,
like that's the lesson, that's just a part of it.
And I felt that too. I thought that, and I
have felt that, and I hate that. I think that's awful.
(17:26):
I do too. Recently, I just saw, my god, my
references in TikTok is overwhelming. But that is my thing now.
A conversation in which this dude, very much, you're burly,
I live in the mountains, aren't I cool? Fifty something
year old man yelling at another dude who was doing
(17:46):
some of the work say like, these are the things
that women have to look out for, and these are
the things that we should change his men. So I
love that content, right, But the dude was like, hey, man,
you're making this worse. You're kind of the CRT argument,
which we should talk about later, not this episode. Uh
says you know, you're teaching women to be afraid of men.
You're telling people to be afraid. And then he was
like you know, the dude who was a good ally
(18:09):
and listener. I was like, no, no, dude, that's that's wrong.
This is why you're wrong, and trying to correct me, like, no,
women are not taught to be scared because we're telling
them something new is not something new. They've taught this
and learned us throughout the years and have to advise
each other to protect themselves. And if we were truly men,
like you're saying that we are men as quote unquote protectors,
(18:31):
we wouldn't have to have this conversation. Also, by the way,
what we're protecting women from our men? Right, So like
both of those conversations and I'm like, yeah, exactly, Like
this conversation is that we are afraid of men, especially
when we're talking about this in very heteronormative sis conversation,
(18:55):
and therefore have learned lessons on how to protect ourselves
from men. When we're not able to fully protect ourselves
and try to get justice, we are told it is
our fault because we have not learned lessons and protecting
ourselves from men. So I found this whole narrative and
very interesting, and I'm like, yeah, this is cyclical. We
(19:16):
need to come back to what the problem is men.
And I get it not all men. I don't give me,
I don't give. I don't give any kind of flying whatsoever.
Stick it up your ass, don't care. That's how I
feel about this when we had this conversation. What it
comes down to is women who date men are afraid
of men because of the situations that they have been
(19:38):
put by men. And therefore, when we try to protect
ourselves or at least get our justice, we are being
told that we're not being womanly enough in order to
let the men have what they want even if we
are in fear, and that they are the ones that
will protect us to let us know when we should
be fearful, as told by the patriarchy, which again is well, yes, yes, agreed, agreed, agreed,
(20:01):
and and it's so many of the things that I
heard from people was like very victim blaming to themselves,
like I shouldn't have done this, I should have known better.
But I'm like, this is still And I asked, who
thought he could do this to you? And that was okay, Right.
That's the part that hurts me the most in these
(20:24):
conversations is they always interject in telling their stories with
I shouldn't have done this. I know, I shouldn't have
warned this, I shouldn't have said this, I shouldn't have gone.
I shouldn't even done this, whether it's being alone with them,
whether it's assuming that you could walk down the street
alone with them, whether it's saying goodbye yeah and not
(20:44):
trying to be nice and being told if I'm not nice,
then I'm a bit and I don't want to be
seen as a bit or. And and you and I
have talked about this, engaging in a sexual activity that
you did not want to right, because they will not leave. Um,
are you're afraid of violence which is not consent? Right?
(21:08):
Are you just given? After saying no so many times? Yes, yes? Oh?
It makes me so mad, Like if this is what
dating is. We've got to much work to do, we
have so much to do, and we have gone down
that dark road. But once again, I do want to
(21:29):
come back into this positivity. And like, even though your
friend has gone through so many bad situations to things,
she has not given in and just settled And I
love that. And also she's still trying, which is to
me the biggest strength I can see because I have
a good friend of mine as well, um, and she's
(21:52):
a lesbian and she's been dating and dating and dating.
She doesn't have this same horrific but just not finding
someone who is compatible to her, and she has gone
on so many days and she's so hopeful and she's
so beautiful, and I'm like, how do you do this?
And she's just like, I think it's still I think
I'll find someone. I think it'll be okay. I really
hope that happens. I believe that for her because she
(22:12):
believes that and she deserves it, yeah, point blank, and
is an amazing person and deserves that happiness. But that's
exactly like I admire people's hopefulness in this darkness. Yeah,
And I say darkness very blankly because I again like
I said, if this were to win, my partnership is over.
(22:34):
I'm done. I'm done. I'm going to get two more dogs. Yeah,
And I think that's been another part of it that's
been kind of heartbreaking for me. And I know we're
going to revisit an upcoming happy hour that's going to
be mostly Star Wars based, of course, of course, and
fan fiction based, but actually, like a few Sex and
the City episodes I've seen, I often think of the
(22:57):
one of the ones I saw was I don't really
remember the context, but Charlotte was saying in an event
like I'm trying to find nick, I can't find someone.
I'm trying to find someone in the person at the
event said you need to put yourself out there, and
carry said, oh, she she's out there, like she has
put herself out there. Wait have we seen that episode yet? No?
This is when I've seen. This is when I've seen
(23:19):
like one of the three that I've seen, And I
think about that often, and I think about that with
my friend, where I'm like, to me, it's not very important.
So sometimes I feel like I can be like I
don't think cold is the right word, but kind of
just like um, but to her, this is so important,
(23:41):
like finding somebody, and she really wants that, and this
is the situation she has to deal with. Right, just
really upsets me. Right, I agreed. I think that that's
that's someone that the conversations you know that we've had
my friends who are seeking, Really, do you feel like
(24:01):
there's a part of the missing and whatever else. I
may think as a person, as a woman, as any
of these things, her feelings are valid, and if that's
what she feels, then okay, I will support her, m
h and hope for the best for her. And if
I find someone, I'm like, hey, I've got you someone,
I will be that person because that's what she wants.
(24:24):
And that's okay. Once again, any of these things. So
as as you and I are happy in our womanhood, selfness, individualness,
I would not. I can't say I'm single. I'm not single,
but in my selfness I am happy either way. I
would never say that everyone wants that. Um As In fact,
(24:44):
I had this conversation with my knees, my beautiful niece Gracie.
Hello again, I keep shouting around, don't I, But she
and I just recently had this whole conversation about dating,
and she was like, you know, I dated a lot
and she just graduated college. She's a young un I
love her to death. I love her, lover her lover.
And she was like, I think I'm done. I've dated
a lot through my college and through my high school years.
(25:06):
I feel like I've gotten that out of the way
and now I'm happy to be here. And I'm like,
you know what, I love that for you. I love
that for you. It took me till twenty three to
start dating, twenty two to start dating, and then I
almost quit twenty seven. M it's a little older than her,
so I think I went through my face because I
was like, oh, this is happy, fun, fun fun. I'm
over it. But yeah, she she is kind of getting
(25:29):
to that point as well, and watching her friends dating,
dating around and she's adorable by the way she's newly
single and like out there figuring out her life and
I love that for her and trying to find herself
and like she's now finding herself as independent. How long
that'll last, we don't know. And if she does change
her mind, that's beautiful too, and that's what we got
(25:51):
to look at. Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny. Because people
have asked me for advice on relations ships, and it's
funny to me because I'm kind of learning I don't
ask me for advice. I think it's smart. I don't
know about that. They don't, and it's okay. I would
(26:12):
say the same about me. But I think where I've
always landed is personally, I'm somebody who's not looking. But
if it happened to come my way, I'd be open,
you know, like, yeah, I don't. It's not something that
it like occupies my brain, as I know it does
for some of my friends, and I'm not judging that
(26:33):
at all, but also like i'd be open to it
if I happen to be I think this could work.
That's sort of where I am. Yeah, the natural beds,
and I know we talked a lot about individual hood
because again, like I said, I'm not single, so I
can't say singleness. We will also have a conversation about
happy marriages and happy, happy togetherness, so I don't think
(26:54):
we're one sided on this level. Like I said, I
am in a couple hood. I often tell any that
we're in a throuble. As my partner said, because you
came over for our Valentine's Days, Like it's like you
two are in a relationship. Just look at him, yep,
and just moved on. So I mean that's the thing
part of this conversation too, is relationships can look different ways.
(27:17):
It doesn't have to be this one way. But he
is as happy as I am in this and that
level of like commandre that we have as a group.
Because that sounded very like one sided, it's not, and
there's nothing necessarily romantic or sexual about it. But it's
beautiful and it's a relationship and I love this. Yeah,
I say, I'm happy with that me too. And I
(27:39):
think that's a key point that I'm hearing, Like when
we joke about the compound commune that I know some
of you have written in about it, it's touching on
what we're talking about though, wherein we have these relationships
where we feel safe and comfortable and known with other
women are just friends, and that's I see more and
(28:01):
more women turning that way, and it's unfortunate in this
sense that yes, this is a toxic dating soup, heteronormative
dating soup, and I don't want because I want people
to be happy and find you know, whoever it is,
(28:21):
but I have so many friends who are like you
know what, I got my good lady friends, so that's fine.
We can just be together absolutely, like my whole thing
has been. Again, we've talked about this before, I'll reiterate
because our age group, and I'm putting you with my
age group, even though we're not of the same generation.
It's okay that we have come to the point where
(28:46):
family slash children slash couplehood is not always what is
perfect or the main relationship for us and our goals,
and that has changed vastly. My mom, whom I love,
got married at a very very very young age, and
her only friend literally were her children and her husband
(29:06):
for a little while, and then she finally reconnected after
some of her children left. Several of our children left
to her own sister, which they were always close, but
they just just didn't have a time obviously, as she
had so many children and was young trying to care
for her family. And then it came to the point
that she ended up having another close relationship with her
and is now a part of this giant lady's Bible study.
(29:28):
That's a whole different conversation, but she has a group
she has a group of friends that she sees outside
of her husband, and because her children are alone no
longer there and she's no longer the caregivers to raising children,
her relationship has changed. But it took a long time
to be able to get to that point because her
focus was her family and that's what she wanted because
(29:48):
her family life was difficult growing up, and then she
kind of created one that she wanted of her own
and it did. It wasn't wonderful, but it was pretty
close to what she had envisioned. Her my sister are
very very close. She would talk about how they are
best friends, and they really were, and then I came
in with all of my issues and could not connect
to her, and she couldn't figure out why because she
(30:11):
desperately had a fantasy of our relationship. It wasn't happening.
But all that kind of broke away for her when
my sister got married and left and started her own family,
so she started to reevaluate that friendship group that she
didn't have. And I really think that's the difference is
that I have come to the point that I was like,
I have not been married. Marriage is not my goal
(30:32):
in life, as in fact, even at forty something, marriage
is frightening to me. I'm like, why, what's the purpose,
what's the point. I'm very happy and established where I am.
If I have someone to share my life, that's wonderful,
but it doesn't need to be on paper or a name,
or in monetary sharing or any of that. Because I
also am very happy in my friend group. Again, this
(30:53):
may have something to do in the reactive attachment disorder.
That's a whole different conversation, which I don't trust parental figures,
a couple of figures, male species in general, Like I'm
gonna put that out there because I was very traumatized
by men in general. So therefore I trust women, and
I trust women in my friend group explicitly for the
(31:13):
longest time, and I valued that as my family. And
I'm sure so many of y'all understand that agree with that,
because there's something to that familiarity of growing together. Of course,
there's some things that are the stereotypical things that have
happened in relationships and we've had to grow out of
because we realized, hey, this is the patriarch, try to
(31:34):
keep us down. Let's not play into this anymore. And
once we discovered that I found this established group which
are and our focus was different. Our focus was different
from our mothers, from our parents, from our grandparents, and
and learning that I don't necessarily want children and that's okay,
I don't necessarily want your nuclear family, which, by the way,
(31:55):
I just saw an article about how that has become unpopular. Now,
oh really, Yeah, so that's a whole different conversation. And
the fact that we have chosen to establish ourselves as
people as individuals, and when I say we, I mean
women and folks who identify as women. That's what we
(32:18):
are looking at today is to actually be okay and
being happy in ourselves for ourselves. One of the things
(32:40):
that we're kind of skirting around. We're talking about it,
but we can't go in depth on it in this
particular episode. But is this kind of what we talked
about in deb cod Like there's their ranged marriage trope,
Like we realized there is a gender and balance at play,
and so a lots of women are opting out again
(33:05):
because it is and has been historically skewed towards benefiting
men more and not like financially, but also just like
who's doing that the childcare and like all those things.
And so it's been interesting with my mom because her
husband died and hearing her talk about like I've just
(33:26):
I don't want to date anymore. I don't want to
date anybody ever again because it's nice to just think
about me, which sounds selfish, but she took her her
whole life was about exactly. But I think she feels
guilty about it, like, no, you're you spent your whole
life thinking about other people. Take your do your puzzle.
(33:52):
She loves puzzles. Okay, I still say your mom and
I need to hang out because we would just blew
puzzles and she's awesome. But yeah, and that's this is
the thing I will say. I think this is the
other part to that is the reason we're talking about
all of this. We are talking about bad days and
bad experiences, and yes, we promised we are going to
share some and I hope y'all will respond and share
(34:14):
some about your stories with us, because we do want
to hear I try to do this on Twitter, y'all
let me know, do you'll if you're on Twitter, do
you see our stuff? Because I have a feeling we've
been banned because we're not very good at Twitter. Let
us know if you ever see our stuff. We don't
post a lot. But I just wondered anyway, but did
I ever tell you this? So in my dating thing
(34:34):
and in my unit, I've talked about that, we had
both thought we would have babies at that point. We
would be in our nuclear family, We would be supporting
our husband's y'all. This is for real and be a
part of that family life that we are now I
am now so petrified of because I'm like, why is that? Nope,
I'm good. But people who do it are beautiful, by
(34:56):
the way. This is no shame a shade on them,
because I do love babies. I do love babies, and
then I give them back on what you're gonna have
it back. But the people who are a part of
that family, I love them and they are so beautiful.
We love y'all, moms. We do, We really do. But
all of that to say, when I was in this
(35:16):
world of I need to start dating, I actually kept
a log of my days. I tell you this, like
I started like a short story level uh, describing my dates.
Oh did I ever tell you that? No? Oh, dear though,
oh girl, And I will say Lanna has their own
(35:37):
uh west elm Caleb. I believe because my dating group
we all kind of talked about one dude, which is
quite funny. Um, I'm wonder, I mean, there has to
be so many of those, right, I actually have a
question about this. I yes, as I said, I've never
dated online. Is there I'm assuming there's a function where
(35:57):
you can be like, this person is terrible, get them
off of here? So the only function that you can
truly report no, Okay, see, I'm so I'm so out
because I have not been on a dating site for again,
twe seventeen was probably my last. I kind of want
to log in now. I just want to know my
(36:19):
last dates and at that point in time, and we've
talked about it before, because we've talked about Bumble, Bumble
was the only one that would actually ban people from
their site for harassment or dick pis. I don't know
if if policies have changed. We also know that Bumble
came after tenders creators split and the dude from Tinder
(36:40):
really went after the woman who helped create Bumble and
tender um gaslighting her, threatening her, harassing her, and then
she finally left filed a suit from them and created
Bumble on her own, which is a multimillion dollar side
as well, and it is based on women taking charge,
which still have a hard time with because I am
(37:02):
still really insecure. Um, I was very insecure on that.
So I think that was at that point in time.
Different sites had different UH stipulations, so and I don't
know how many exists today because I'm sure there's so many,
(37:22):
and I've told before. I remember Plenty of Fish was
so overwhelming, and it maybe because yes on Asian and
the amount of Asian fetishism within it was overwhelming. But
I remember I started one day because someone had told
me they had success. I opened up my own profile.
Within that day, I had, I want to say, like
(37:45):
over three hundred messages and I had never been so
overwhelmed in my life that I shut that down so
quickly and never got back on again. Obviously, he's they're
not a sponsor because they weren't as a sponsor Chinge
at one point. I'm who was a sponsor right at
that point, not sponsoring this show was overly complicated, and
(38:08):
I think I think they have changed since then, But
essentially was it hinged on whether or not you had
mutual friends, which I actually really did appreciate, but then
you started to understand a little more like, oh no,
I don't want to ask them normal on this dating
site because there was still that weird like, I don't
judge me for being on a dating site type of thing.
(38:30):
So Hinge was a little more like and so therefore
if you said not to too many, you just kind
of right out of people. I ran out of people.
Oh no, yea Hinge Tender scared me a lot because
it was known for the hookup site. I did date
one person. I think I went on one day with
him and it was a good date. Nothing came out
(38:52):
of it, so that was that bumble. I did made
a couple of people, but because I do not have
the self confidence to actually strike up a conversation and
be with the sure wasn't very successful. Although bumble and
I'm I'm assuming other sites had to had the option
to make friends and networking, so I did like that. Yeah,
I didn't really appreciate that. Again, women creators, but I
(39:18):
will say, okay, Cupid, which also was a sponsor, was
my favorite. And I did say this, this is not
a sponsored episode, even though they were a sponsor once
upon a time because the questions if I went to
and look at four specific questions that were very like
obviously racial, like one of the questions where would you
date outside of your race? That wasn't automatic? And and
(39:40):
if people who said yes to me like they picked
me as it said someone they liked, which it shows,
but said that said no on that what that meant
immediate block like things like they were asking heavy duty questions,
very specific questions. And I really appreciated those questionnaires because
I went looked it up and based on whether or
(40:01):
not we would match on those so so that all
of those sites are very very different. Yeah, it seems
exhausting to me, but again I understand some people have
told me it's like fun like a gametrition Did you
ever have you? Did you enjoy dating? Okay, so there
(40:22):
was a moment that I really did enjoy. There were
times that I really were was excited after the initial
day and I was connected with someone, It felt nice,
It felt good to be able to come together. You
kind of already knew our interests, so we already had
a common ground. And because I've only honestly, I've only
really dated off of dating sites. I went on one
(40:45):
blind date, never again. The partner I date I am
with today. We met because we're neighbors, so that was
also off of online. He's also the younger than me,
so would not have been in my pick because you
have to do an I'm very yeah, so we would
have never met on dating sites. That's interesting, But all
(41:06):
of that to say, I did enjoy those moments of
being able to have a conversation get to know people, like,
if it was fun, it was really fun. If it
wasn't fun, it was really bad, Like it was just
those There was really no middle ground I did go on.
I guess there was a middle ground, and that I
always tried to go on a second date with someone
that did immediately offend me, right because I didn't want
(41:32):
to be overly picky, but typically right, Okay, I feel
like for me, I've never enjoyed dating, but I did,
and this is a whole different conversation. I did enjoy
feeling like someone was attracted to me. I did enjoy
(41:55):
the thought that like people were interested men specifically, although
some women up in there um that I liked, But
I really didn't want to do the actual dating part.
Other than I like having fun with people. Fun dab
like for me is like literally, let's play a board
game or like fun. But you've had crushes, like legitimate
(42:18):
crushes on people to face? Yeah, yes, I crush hard actually,
but it's usually pretty like a bright flare and it
goes away pretty quickly. And I've had some that were
lasted longer. And I tried to envisualize, like what would
our relationship look like and would there be a physical
part to it? And it was very difficult for me
(42:40):
to envision, but I did like thinking about it. It
was kind of a fun day dream of what if,
what if it would work? Do you have a rush
today on anyone that we know, a real person? Yes,
a real person. I do not, but I will tell
(43:01):
you I've had them. I get him on. I just
like people. It's weird, like I I generally have had
a crush on almost everyone I don't know passes. Yes,
I just get I get like a huge crush. I'm like,
oh my my god, dude, I can't believe they're giving
(43:22):
me the time of jay. I love them so much.
I think they're the best, Like I get them and
and then they generally passed. But I do. I experience
crushes a lot. Actually, well, I love and admire you
in general. Yeah, time you too, My goodness. All right, So,
the original idea for this episode was to be a very,
(43:45):
as we said at the top, lightly research, fun conversational thing.
It turns out Samantha and I have a lot to
say about that. We've been through some things and we've
seen something apparently, have a lot of all of you,
I'm sure, and a lot of the people who contacted
us and told us their stories, and we just wanted
to give this the proper context because we understand that
(44:09):
bad date can mean a lot and what we meant
to go for with something very funny, but we can't
ignore that it's often not that for women. So with
that being said, originally we were just going to have
kind of like a brief thing about dating and then
a conversation about bad dates. We haven't gotten to that
(44:29):
part yet, and it's already quite long, so we're going
to split this into a two parter, uh and tune
in for the second part to hear more about our
thoughts on dating and some of our very our very
own specific bad dating stories, which we have quite a few.
To choose from Yes, so tune in for part two.
(44:51):
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode,
and as always, we would love to hear from you.
If you've got thoughts, bad dating stories you want to share,
please send them our away. Our email is Stuffitie and
mom Stuff at iHeart me dot com. You can find
us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You or
on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks It's always to
our super producer Christina. Oh yeah, we need all of
the stories. Maybe we can begin a part three, right Christina. Yes, yes, Christina,
(45:17):
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
You s production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast
on my heart radio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
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Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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