May 24, 2025 • 54 mins
The Price. How did the relationship between Ellie and Joel deteriorate so severely? And what is the price Joel was willing to pay to keep it, and what is Ellie willing to pay to avenge it? Cycles of violence and lies are confronted, and truths revealed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
the pin Ultimate the pin ultimate episode of our Last
(00:25):
of Us Season two reaction mini series. Again, they are
not a sponsor. Shame, it's a real shame. But here
we are doing any Way out of love because the
second Game is my favorite game of all time. They
are splitting up. I read another article recently that said
(00:47):
into three seasons, so really, yeah, this is part one.
They said the next season is going to be longer
because I believe the exact quote was the narrative bomb
of Joel dying was too hard to get away from.
So this season is like that. Okay, but they said
(01:10):
that we have more room to explore in the next
season and potentially the next But anyway, spoilers. Hopefully if
you clicked on this, because I just gave you the
biggest one, you've already caught up. You're already caught up.
But we're going to spoil the most recent episode and
(01:34):
previous episodes of the second season of the Last of
Us show, the first season, the game, first game, parts
of the second game. But I'm trying to avoid like
big game parts. So I have to tell you, I
don't even know what they're going to do half the
time anymore, So it could I don't know who knows, Yes, yes,
(01:58):
this There's all only one more episode left in this season,
so during this time we are not doing our Sex
and the City, Watch React podcast or fiction ones to
give Christina some more breathing room. But we will come
back to those in June. And yeah, normally Smith and
(02:24):
I watched these together, we didn't get to do it
this one, which is the same because you would have
laughed at how hard I cried.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I should have been there just to take pictures.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It was bad, it was bad news. But this does
bring me to a funny story that I have. I
finally got to meet up with my mom for Mother's Day.
I know, I'm so late, but we finally got to
meet up, and I told her I was honest, and
(02:58):
I said, one of the reasons I've been so busy
is for doing these last of Us watch parties and
it's just like a whole day, and so I don't
have time on Sundays to do it. Anyway. She I
told her this, and we were at a restaurant and
she like rested her head back on the booth with
(03:19):
a groan, and then put her hands in front of
her on the table and rested her forehead on her
hands and said, how could they kill him? He's so attractive?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean many people would agree with her and have
agreed with her.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I was not expecting this at all. A shocking take from.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
My mom, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I did not know she was watching it, and she
kind of she watched the last season and she loved it,
and when we got to the end, she said, oh,
it's kind of a happy ending. Joel and Ellie get
to live happily ever after together. And I stayed very silent. Betrayal.
(04:06):
I was like, well, she said, how could you not
tell me they.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Were going to do this betrayal?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
But it was so funny. And then I told her,
I said, well, you know, Pedro Pascal is coming back,
because she hadn't caught up on the most recent episode,
and she sagged in relief and was like, oh really,
And then I said, but really only for that, right,
(04:36):
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Not coming back for like more than like a couple
of flashbacks, especially like as we keep going, I bet
that'd bring him at least once a season.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I think they'll bring him in. If we were sticking
to the game, this would be it. We wouldn't, right,
I bet they'll bring him him from one more at
least one more flashback, but I don't think much more
than that. But she it was so funny. She was
talking to me all about it and all her thoughts.
(05:08):
It was a wonderful time. But I just love her.
First reaction was it.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Was to talk to you about ready to talk about it,
and then she had to give herselves a moment and
then that was the statement, I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, And there were people in the restaurant. There were
other people like looking beautiful at it. It was great.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
They were like, what's happening? People would understand, they would understand,
they would understand.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But she was very She had a moment of intense
reaction and then anger, and then we just talked about it.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So yeah, well that's where we are with this episode. Actually,
we are kind of at the eulogy. So the way
these work is Samantha gives the recap and then I
go through my thoughts. So Samantha, would you like to
give the recap?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Here we go, so we have antying opening I guess
with two children, like it took me a minute to
figure out what was going on, by the way, I
was like what, And they're like, the youngest one is
obviously brothers saying he's gonna, you know, use the belt,
He's gonna hit me all these things, and the older
ones like, no, he won't touch you, I will get hit.
So he sends him off to his room. And it
(06:18):
turns out it is younger Joel and Tommy, and obviously
the father is abusive. The father comes in, he's a sheriff.
You're like, what the hell or a police officer, and
I'm like, oh, bad news. And they had this hole
back and forth in which essentially Joel's challenging him. It's like,
you're not touching him. I'll take it he didn't do
(06:38):
anything wrong, tries to lie. The father does something unexpected
and goes like, grabs a drink, brings one for him,
and he sits down and then tells the story about
how he got punched in the face by his father,
couldn't eat for weeks and all these things, and you're like,
what the hell, And then you know a Joel responds
with and how could you do that to us if
you know how this feels. And he's like, I've never
hit y'all like that, I've never been this bad, and
(07:00):
I've done better than my father. And then he goes
on to say, when you have your own, my hope
is that you'll do better than me. Cut two, we
have birthday scene to Ellie. Very cute come in. He's
talking to Seth at one point and you see them
trading off because he gets legos and then he's like,
I want this by tomorrow and they're like what. I'm
(07:22):
sitting there like what are we getting? Amo he says
vanilla or chocolate. Vanilla is faster. He's like, fine and vanilla.
And then he also gets like a bone marrow piece
and he's working on this guitar beautifully done, and gets
a painting of or drawing which is very famous drawing
into this game and have this moment and it turns
(07:42):
out it is Ellie's fifteenth birthday. He gets her a
kate that's his Happy Birthday Eli, which is a whole thing,
but it gets so good. Ellie eats it with her
hands and talks about how good it is. He gives
her a present, which is the guitar with her drawing
on it, which is a moth, and they have a
little bit of a moment. It's very sweet moment. And
then we have this, oh yeah, before she had burned
(08:06):
her arms. This is where she's burned her arms, right,
and Tommy brings it in. She's on like painkillers and suys.
I just wanted to wear short sleeves. That's a whole
whole damn thing. And then a year later, for the
sixteenth birthday, this is where I got confused. We have
a moment and they're going exploring, and then we see
this whole cute view about how they need to go
(08:28):
exploring more often, all these things, and then he brings
her to the area after a fun conversation about birds
and bees and Jesse is mentioned here. And then as
they go up he has found the museum with dinosaurs
and astronauts, and they have this amazing scene, very heartfelt moment.
(08:48):
You love it. They love each other, having your great time.
You have the moment where she hears the takeoff in
the astronauts and gets her own helmet and beautiful and
I'm sure you're already crying by this point, right, And
it wasn't good, Okay, and moving on. We go on
to the seventeenth birthday, where it becomes a little more
(09:12):
awkward and he hears noises. He's got okay. He hears
noises in her bedroom, busts through and turns out.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
He's with.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
A girl and they've been making out. And then also
baby a tattoo was involved, and he in drugs and
he's like, you're doing all of this all at once? Why?
And then they have this like blowout, and then then
he goes away, and he goes and we see Gail
and he has a conversation about, you know, a couple
of things, including about her tattoo, which is a moth,
(09:39):
and he asks her what it is it's about, and
they come to realize it's about death when he, you know,
the father moment of like pretending I'm trying to figure
it out, and he thought it was a butterfly about
new life and all these things. But it is a
father daughter exchange. But it is getting more and more
awkward as the birthdays come as she is growing. We
jump ahead two years to nineteen and his birthday gets
(10:00):
to her after By the way, she's moved into the
garage at this point and she's practicing a whole scene
about trying to figure out what happened.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, at the hospital, right, she's written questions. She wants
to ask him about what happens.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But she doesn't quite get there yet, and we jumped
two years later and he takes her training train for
hunting and all of that stuff, and they have this
woman he kind of like, you know, he's giving her
like I would like to spend more time. This would
be nice if we could do these together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But at that point we get an emergency call about
(10:35):
something happening and he tries to go and tells her
to go back to Jackson and she's like, hell, no,
I'm not your daughter, I'm your partner. And he's like
all right, fine, and they go together and they come
uposus one Horde scene of a horse dragging a person
obviously who had died, had been eaten or gotten bitten,
one of those two things, And then come up and
we meet Eugene, the infamous Eugene, who is like, I'm okay,
(11:00):
but yeah I got bit. And at this point he's
like look, look, look, and Joel's ready, let's shoot him.
Immediately he's like, we're sorry, he's like, no, no, no,
I need to see Gil, who is his wife. He's like,
I need to see Gil. I need to talk to her.
I need to tell her something. I have to tell
her something. And Joel's like, you know I can't do that.
You're about to turn He's like no really, And then Ellie,
(11:20):
with her empathy, was like, wait, do these tests. Let's
see how long you got figures out he's got time.
She's like, I can go get the horse. You can
come my way and we can get him there before
he passes away and he can talk to he can
or before he becomes a zombie or needs to be shot,
and you can talk to he can talk to Gil.
And she's like, promise me. He's like I promise, and
like all these things. So she goes off to do
this and they have this moment and he, Eugene and
(11:44):
Joel are walking. Joel leads him to the water and
Eugene knows for what's about to happen. He's like, man,
I need to do this. He's like I'm sorry, I
can't let you. I have to protect my family. And
then he's like, what do you want to tell Gil?
And he's like, I don't want to tell Gil and
I need her to tell me that I'm okay. I
need her to talk me through this. I need her.
It was a very sweet moment, and as we like
(12:07):
pan away, we come back to Ellie coming back with
a horse and he is he has shot Eugene and
he lies and says, there was no way we could
do anything about this. You know, we had to do
this right. He was all these things, and then he's like,
we will tell Gil what she needs to hear, and
that's how it goes. And then they go back and
(12:30):
he tries to tell her all these things about how
he loved her and he was brave he shot himself,
and Ellie was not having it, and then just says
everything that he did it was a lie. And she
ends up with him saying, you swore. I've seen that
look and I know you swore, And that's kind of
how that ends. Gail gets a good slap in the
(12:50):
face of Joel, kind of deserved, honestly, and we have
a tried like we see the moment of what happened,
and she talking to him. Essentially at this point they
haven't talked about anything else, and he knows that he
is lost because he knows that she knows he's lying.
He's been lying all this time. They have another time
(13:12):
jump to that scene where she just faces him on
after the New Year's Eve incident, that all that shows
and happens, and how he is Uncle Grumpy. All the
things went down at that point, and you see him
on the porch with his coffee with his al mug,
which is also infamous in this world. And she walks up,
(13:33):
stands at him and looks like she goes to her
garage area, but doesn't turns around and comes back on
the porch and they have a heart to heart and
she asks them all the questions and he's like, She's like,
this is your last chance. You have to tell me
the truth, and which he does tell her, Yes he
did kill them, Yes they could have had a cure. Yes,
he selfishly made this decision. And he tells essentially, but
(14:01):
this is the price I will pay for what he
has done. And then he also says I would not
I would choose this again. I would choose it all
over again to save you. She says selfish, and the
end says the quote, I don't think I can ever
forgive you for this but I would like to try
cut scene and we see Ellie coming back to the theater.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And rain present day. Yep, yeah, that's what That's what
destroys me, that scene, the porch scene. I cry the
most of that scene. It wrecks me in the show,
it wrects me in the game.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So this episode is called The Price, and if you
notice in the credits, it's two figures again because it's
Joel and Ellie again. But this is, as I said,
the eulogy of Joel, this is where we're saying, like,
don't get too excited, folks, goodbye, goodbye, my friend. But
(15:15):
it is also all about cycles of It's both cycles
of progress but also cycles of just you're stuck in
the same thing. So the flashback that opens it with
young Joel and Tommy is not in the game. It's
alluded to very vaguely that their childhood was abusive, but
(15:41):
it's never made clear. It's never made specific. Tommy has
a quote where he says something like Joel's protection wasn't
worth it, and I always assumed that that meant what
they did to survive during the apocalypse, but it's possible
(16:03):
he was talking about further than that, and there's a
couple of other offhanded things where you could interpret it
in that way. But you kind of see him already
having this, you know, kind of understandable, honestly tendency to
(16:24):
lie to protect someone, to resort to violence to protect someone,
because he had started beating up the kids that were
selling drugs to Tommy. But I also think it's interesting
that his dad, who is a cop, says immediately like,
(16:46):
do you think I wouldn't find out about this? Like
it's a lie that had a lot of room to
fall apart. It was easy to verify that that was
not what happened, but he was willing to do it,
and he was willing to take the pain for it.
But also this whole idea of you know, I hope
(17:06):
you do better than me. And you do see instances
of Joel. A lot of people have written essays about
this that I've read that you see a lot of
instances of him when he's in Jackson where he's really
trying to make life instead of death, Like he's instead
(17:27):
of like doing violent things. He's carving all these like
owls statues, and he's making a guitar and he's brewing alcohol,
like he's a very like he's making things. So he
did have progress in that way, and we'll talk a
bit more about some of the other progress yet. But
(17:48):
you also see the watch, the infamous watch on his
dad's wrists, so that is being passed down. I think
it's interesting again that Ellie did not take the watch.
She took the gun, So it's sort of what are
you picking up from what's being passed down? And we
(18:09):
do see like a couple instances of characters with their children,
like Seth, who we met first as a homophobic character,
is talking about his grandkids and how they would love
the legos that Joel found and how he was a cop,
(18:30):
which is Joel visually was like oh yeah, oh no,
but like you see, he cares about his kids. And
then you see Tommy with his kid. And now you
have Joel who has really assumed the role of Ellie's father,
even though she's kind of shafing at it because like
(18:51):
at first it was all about protection and now he's
doing the like, oh you got a tattoo, very very
paternal kind of action. But the episode is told mostly
through at Ellie's birthdays. It's a series of flashbacks told
mostly through her birthdays, and it does start with her fifteenth,
(19:16):
and that's when we see I just kind of wanted
to mention I thought it was funny that Seth is
making Ellie's cake when he's homophobic, and there's kind of
that whole you know, I won't make cake for gay people,
so kind of made me laugh in the sad way.
But yes, yeah, but he's the one that makes the cake.
(19:40):
And that's when we do get the the relevation that
she has burned her arm purposefully because she wanted to
wear short sleeves, and she she says in there, it's
they're giving us a lot of hints about how reckless
(20:02):
she is, or like how she makes impulsive decisions, because
she says like I just saw it and then I
just did it, So we're seeing more of that. But
then we do have a very sweet scene where she
eats the cake with her hands, which I think is
supposed to be like she grew up in the Apocalypse
and so whatever. But then Joel plays the song the
(20:25):
whole song for her, the Pearl Jam song Future Days,
which she couldn't play in a previous episode because she's
still stuck in this trauma, but he plays that for
her and with the guitar that he made, which, by
the way, the bone that you mentioned is for the
bone bridge through guitar, So he made this guitar and
(20:49):
he has kind of a cute stumbley speech about how
much work he put into it, and she's just like, oh, God,
sure plays something for me. So they have this really
nice moment and then it jumps to the next birthday
and this is the one. This scene. Oh everyone knows.
(21:10):
Everyone knows it. Even the museum that this scene is
based on, was like, I can't believe, how amazing, how
did you do this? But anyway, he takes Ellie. Joel
takes Ellie to a museum that he found and there
is a big t Rex statue out front that Ellie
(21:33):
climbs to the top of, which, by the way, is
a missible thing. I missed it the first time I
played it, but you can climb to the top. They
did cut out I think they shot it, but they
cut out the scene where they go and look at
all the other dinosaurs. But that's where the Indiana Jones
hat easter egg that we mentioned comes from, because she
(21:54):
picks up a hat makes Joel wear them, and dinosaurs
wear them and all this stuff. But then they get
to the space exhibit, which is as we know, Ellie
loves space, and it is really sweet because it shows
he knows the things she loves the most. He knows
she has this interest in dinosaurs and this interest in space.
(22:17):
In the game, he started reading the comics she loved
Savage Starlight, which you can see posters of in her room.
But he says to her, would you like to go
to space? And then shows her this capsule that's in
the museum and says, you can't go to space without
a helmet. The helmet she chooses is from It's a
(22:41):
Gemini helmet, which is one of the helmets that was
used during the Apollo explosion that she talked about a
couple episodes ago. But so that's not the greatest symbolism.
But also Jemini means duality, and that's what a lot
of this season is about Ellie versus Abby. All of
(23:07):
these things. I hats off to everyone who's written about this.
I love it. And then he gives Ellie. He tells
her to close her eyes and gives her a tape,
a cassette tape and she puts the earbuds in, puts
(23:27):
in the tape and it is the sound of a launch,
a space launch, and she closes her eyes and she
has this really beautiful moment where she's in her imagination
and she's thinking about what it would look like to
go to space, which I think is very It's both
(23:49):
very like one of the last hang ons of her
childhood and being so interested in that, but I think
it's also very escapist because if you lived in that world,
I would see being like, you know what, if I
can go it out her space? Right, that sounds great,
but alas, you must come back down. Also, Samantha gave
(24:13):
me that tape for one of my birthdays and I
loved it.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Did you listen to it?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I didn't know if I did or not.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah. Uh So they had this beautiful moment and then
Joel asked, did I do okay? And she says, are
you kidding me? That was like the best thing ever.
And she's like kind of teared up, and he's kind
of teared up, which I think is really sweet because
he's obviously really happy that she's happy. And it's interesting
(24:48):
to me because in the the actors were told not
to play the games. I did, right, I believe Bella did.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I think young Mazino has, like he had already when
he auditioned, so some of them have, but I know
Pedro Pascal has not. He tried to, and then I
think he got too scared.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
He was too bad at it, too bad at it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah. But anyway, it's interesting because in his kind of
retelling of how why Joel was reacting this way, it
was that he was so happy. He made her happy,
and that's the best thing you can do for someone.
But I've always kind of interpreted it as he needed
(25:38):
the affirmation, like the he needed somebody to tell him, oh,
I'm doing okay. Yeah, yes, I am still doing the
right thing here in this story. And we'll talk about
that a little bit more later. I do think he
was happy for her. I think there was space for both,
but that sort of like always needing because he has
(26:02):
a bunch of other moments like that in this episode
where he's like, we should hang out more. This is
so fun, we should like. He just has a lot
of stuff like that, and then also, yeah, just a
hammer home. If you haven't heard the song Future Days,
look up the lyrics and you'll be the future days
never come out of the way. He just said that.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah, but that's like that scene is one of
the most beautiful sections of the game. It does include
another part they cut out where they go to another museum. Oh,
I am sad they cut that out now that I
think about it, because they go into the museum but
(26:52):
Joel can't get in. Ellie's small enough to get in,
and she's trying to find another way to exit, and
this bore wild boar keeps like attacking her, and it's
really scary because it's dark and you just hear this sound,
and there's all these scary messages on the wall, like
(27:14):
they let the children starve and all this stuff, and
you come out at one point from crawling and there's
just this all of these a statue of wolves surrounding
a moose and it's so symbolic and so creepy. And
then Ellie finds this the firefly emblem, and underneath it
(27:39):
said it was hope was all the lie. And then
Joel finds his way in, and it's just real awkward
because she's like, should I bring this up? And he's like,
please don't bring it up. But they kind of have
that moment in the show when she sees the fireflies
around the tree and it's like something is not right.
(28:02):
But yes, that scene is a beautiful scene, but it
does happen right after the whole Nora thing, where after
Ellie tortures Nora. It's that scene. So some people like
really hated that pacing. I liked it because it was like,
oh my god, I need a moment. Then we skip
(28:32):
to the next birthday, which is full of the teenage
stuff that you mentioned, and we get the return of
cat Kat, Ellie's X that was in the first episode,
and I was so excited because she's like a mention
in the game. She's in Ellie's journal, but you could
miss it completely if you don't read her journal. So
(28:56):
it's kind of fun to see her. But as I said,
she is the one that gave Ellie her tat too,
and I love how she was like, it will look
better once I fill it in, as if that was
why Joel was mad. But yeah, So basically, Joel came
home early to celebrate Ellie's birthday with chocolate cake this
(29:17):
time the fancy stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
The fancy one, and.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
There was Kat and Ellie seemingly having an intimate physical moment,
and Ellie has gotten the tattoo, is smoking pots and
he's just outraged and says, like all the teenage stuff
at once. Then it is interesting because of how the
(29:48):
show started, with how his dad reacted to Tommy getting the
weed and that whole thing, and how he reacts, and
he is he does feel like a very like conservative
parent here. I mean, I get it. I'm not a parent,
but I understand if you come home and all this
(30:10):
stuff that's happening, right, But they have this kind of
fight about it. He says she's experimenting with girls, which,
by the way, there was a funny scene in the
previous birthday where he was like, it's something going on
between you and Jesse and she was like oh no, no, no,
(30:30):
no no. He was like, oh, I've got a key
and I for this, and she was like, no, you
really don't. But she says it wasn't an experiment, and
he says, I'll come back when you're more yourself. She's oof, oof,
oof oof, and that's when she tries to move into
(30:51):
the garage, and this I knew was going to have
a ton of Easter eggs in it, and it did
because when she's like packing up her stuff. The album
cover the album you can see is an album that's
famous from being in Kill Bill. She's very famously pretty
(31:14):
revenge oriented story. There's a bunch of stuff like that. Also,
again shout out to the Easter egg videos that somehow
make these videos within like five hours. But anyway, that
is one of them. But he does ask about her
tattoo after they have this fight, and he kind of
(31:39):
she says it's from it's from like a dream, a
book about dream she read. He kind of surmises it
means growth and stuff, doesn't really ask her. It's just
kind of like, oh, like growth and stuff, and she's
like like change and sure. But the next day he
finds Gail the town on Arapist and she is like,
(32:04):
oh no, it means death. And if you think about
the symbolism of a moth, to me, it would be
like it's death. It's drawn to light that you can
never get a lot of people have written about how
maybe it symbolizes sort of an addiction or something like
with her addiction to getting revenge. Some people think it's
(32:25):
the like look to the light, fireflies. Yeah, kind of
whole thing. But if you look at her sketches, because
she has a lot of sketches of this moth, which
he Joel did, I think a pretty good job when
he made it in her guitar on the bridge, it says,
on those sketches, you have greater purpose. And she puts
(32:49):
that tattoo over her bite, and she has been living
with this guilt and survivor's guilt of I got this
bite and I always thought I was going to die
and then I didn't, and I've been waiting to be
the next person to die and I don't. So I
think it's very purposeful that she put it over her bite.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Also, Gail's book that she's reading, Earth Abides, I think
it's called in It It is a very it's about
the apocalypse, and in it, the last man who can
read dies, and so the idea is no one will
learn how to read once he dies. And so I
(33:33):
think the implication is once Gail dies, they aren't going
to have mental health and I'm not going to have
a therapist. Ay.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, I'm surprised anybody's doing mental health.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I know that is new new to the show, but
I do love Gail, so I'm very happy. So this
is like, I feel, this is sort of my soap box,
one of two I have too, but they're short, I promise.
I feel Joel wants Ellie to be who he wants
(34:08):
and not who she actually is. He only wanted the
answer from Gail that he wanted. He didn't actually want
the answer, He just wanted the reassurance and affirmation I
was talking about. And I think that the last of
us fandom, not all of us, obviously, but a lot
(34:28):
of it is kind of like this too. We all
liked Ellie when she was under his protection and looked
up to him, but now a lot of folks are
like this. I'm grateful, and I just sometimes I'm like,
did I wasn't really a rebellious teenager, but I feel
like a lot of people were, and you can't connect
(34:50):
with that at all. He's done his wrongs, which we'll
get into, and what he did girls like why, that's
really cool and to Eugene to his face. Yeah yeah,
and we'll get to that more too, because it was
(35:11):
really unnecessary for multiple reasons. But yes, people are often like, oh,
Joel saved your life, Ellie, what are you doing. But
she was ready to die. However you feel about that,
she was ready to die. She thought she was going
to die when she got bit, and she did say
she was waiting for her turn. Also, you can see
(35:34):
my recent episodes on Cool People Who Do Cool Stuff,
which was a two parter about vaccines. But it's frustrating
to me about how individualistic people can be about this
instead of thinking about the community. And I've been guilty
of this too for a long time. I didn't get
the flu vaccine because I was like, oh, oh, I
don't get the flu, and then somebody was like, yeah,
(35:55):
it's not about you, it's about other people who might
get the flu from you. But I mean, Joel could
have gotten a vaccine if it worked in this world,
and that's honestly about the best they were going to do.
And it's gone. I mean it's gone. So Joel keeps
(36:17):
saying like he understands, but he doesn't. He says to Ellie,
I understand that he doesn't. He says to Eugene, I
understand that he doesn't. He said that in the first
season too. You can there are different levels if I
can relate to I've had a loss and I can
relate to, but I feel like he's fundamentally actually misunderstanding
(36:38):
right or not willing to even try. And I did
forget one of the most important parallels in the last episode,
which was Joel's choice to save Ellie versus I called
her Eliza, But it's Elise, Elise's choice. Who is the
woman at the beginning who was like my son Leon,
(36:59):
we see all him and l's what he said, that's
what he asked for, and that's what we did. So
she listened to the choice he made and made this
very painful decision for the community. And that's the thing
is like the agency. I think Ellie's so angry because
(37:21):
agency is being taken from her at every turn, Choices
are being taken from her because even like you know,
Joel and Marlene. I think we're going to get more
of this in the next season. But there's kind of
a bigger thing that happened behind the decision to just
(37:42):
go ahead with the vaccine. But Marlene was like, you
know what, you're right, Let's wake her up and ask her,
and then Joel just shoots her. Shoots Marlene. So I
think that Joel loves Ellie. I believe that's true, but
(38:03):
I also think that whole thing was kind of about
him and not about Ellie, and I think her revenge
quest is more about her than it is about Joel.
But I have so many thoughts. I have something that
I have had. Somebody, at least one listener wrote into
(38:23):
me and was like, you can't understand because you don't
have a kid. I mean, I guess that's true, but
I kind of like I can be empathetic to things.
I'm not saying that would have been easy, but he
killed life thirty people, right, So But I just bring
(38:46):
that up because in the show, they added in a
line that Joel doesn't have in the game where he says,
you know you will never He tells Ellie you'll never understand,
basically imply because you don't have a kid, and until
you have a kid, you will never understand what I did.
But just just a reminder Ellie knew Marlene.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Just a reminder, like, and the story was even deeper
that the mother he knew her mother.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah yeah, connection, just just remind you, right, Yeah. But
also like I think it's I like that Dina gave
Ellie the choice that Joel took from her too. Where
she's like, I'll go back if you want. I'll go
with you if you want. But she gave that choice
(39:38):
to Ellie. But that does bring us to our infamous
Abby Abby Abby, because her choice was kind of taken
from her, but now she's made her own and it's
spiraled out into this whole thing that we're going to
be seeing all of the consequences of. But yes, this
(40:00):
does bring us two lies, the lies we tell. And
so Ellie has been stewing on this, been thinking about
there's so many holes in Joel's story. I have all
these questions. The tension is rising between them. They finally
go on patrol because he lets her. He finally is like, okay,
(40:22):
I'll let you go, and when something actually happens, he
tells her to turn around and she says, I'm not
your kid, Joel, I'm your partner. And so this is
when we get to Eugene's death because they find Eugene.
He's been bitten. He says, I got an hour, let's go,
let me talk to Gail and then you can kill me.
Like he was very he knew what was up, but
(40:44):
he wanted to hear her final words and have his
final words, and Ellie does this test and it's like, yeah,
he's got time, let's do it. And she looks at
Joel and he's like, no, I promise, we'll do it.
You go get the horses. I will walk you down.
And the thing that's really gets to me about this
(41:07):
scene is technically Joel was the only one at risk
of infection because Ellie was fine. So I were I
guess we're to assume he didn't want anyone to find
out she wasn't at risk of infection, or he's being
too overprotective, or he's just like set in his ways
(41:29):
and doesn't care, and that's it doesn't have room for
this empathy. I mean, I was even thinking about it
on my last rewatch. I was like, you know, Eugene
could have been immune. We don't know for sure, right,
I don't think he was, but he could have been.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Well. He said at one point he was cold. He
make you cold. But there could be the argument, and
I will say this that he knew bringing Eugene back.
What if he turns and then attacks Gail or Gail
does something to let him go because she doesn't want
to see him shot, and then he goes into the
(42:07):
village like there's there are other risks, but it does
seem rather cold.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Very yeah, very and he so he takes his Eugene
to a very scenic place and kills him, shoots him
in the back of the head, and then lies to
Gail and he tries to control what Ellie's gonna say, right,
(42:33):
because he's like, yeah, I had to do it, there's
no choice, and he yeah, completely makes up this whole
story for Gail, like, oh yeah, the last he just
wanted to tell you he loved you, and he did
it himself. And he keeps saying like it was the
right thing to do. Meanwhile Ellie is clearly stewing over there.
(42:55):
But anyway, this does recontextualize the conversation Gail had with
Ellie about last moments, because Gail says, you know, the
last moments shouldn't define our whole relationship, but they often do,
and now knowing she was robbed of that. But so
Ellie hears this and has had enough and tells Gail
(43:17):
what really happens, and Gail slaps Joel and then Ellie says,
you swore, which was a very purposeful choice to you
swore versus promise, because now we're referring to the fireflies
and what Joel said happened with the fireflies. And it
is also sad if you think about it, that when Eugene,
(43:42):
right before he dies, he says, I just want to
see her face, and Joel's like, oh, if you love someone,
you can always see their face.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, that was me.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And then guess what happens. The last thing Joel saw
was Ellie's face.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah. And this is a scene that got cut out
of the game, but Ellie has a lot of tense
moments with Joel where she'll say, if only they had
a cure, right, if only they had a cure, And
this is I think her survivor was guilt of, like
if only Eugene had had a cure, he could have lived.
(44:30):
This brings us to the porch scene. The infamous porch scene.
You do have a moment that's not in the game
with the POV from Joel about this party, this New
Year's party where Maria and he have a suite. But
you're like, oh, well, he'll be dead tomorrow. Conversation. Tommy's
(44:51):
like see you next year, and I'm like nope, yeah,
oh no. Uh. But the porch conversation. I can't. It
destores me every time. This is the last memory Ellie
has of Joel. This is the last memory as an
audience will probably have of Joel unless they bring it back.
(45:13):
But it says she walks by, and then she comes
back to the porch to talk to Joel after they've
had this open altercation in front of everybody in the town.
And she starts it with asking about kind of small talk,
but then she starts it with asking for independence. She's like,
(45:34):
I never want to hear you tell me about what
patrols I can do again. I never want to do
all this. And then he asked her about Dina and
the kiss that they had, and you do see his
growth here because he doesn't seem to think it's an experiment.
He's like, oh, she would be lucky to have you.
So he did grow in that way, and he did
(45:57):
agree to the patrol thing. They were supposed to patrol
together the next day.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
But then she just can't pretend. Ellie can't pretend things
are normal anymore, and so she asked him a bunch
of her questions about what happened at Salt Lake City
with the fireflies and Joel still can't even say it.
In the game, he could say it, but he never
was able to voice it out loud, to say it
out loud as Gail asked him to in the first episode,
(46:27):
he just nods and he admits that yes, there could
have been a cure, which up ended a lot of fandom,
by the way, because they're like really like yes, but anyway,
because it was kind of did we weren't sure if
he believed there could have been a cure, but in
here it's clear he believed there could have been a
(46:48):
cure and killed Marlene, killed all these the fireflies, lied
to her about it, and she Ellie basically saw the
same look in his eyes when he lied about Eugene
that he had when he lied about the firefly. So
that's that was her final piece of evidence. And she says,
(47:12):
you took that from me. I was supposed to die there,
and you took that from me. You took that from everyone,
And he says, I know, and that's the price I'll pay.
But he also says the price in his head is
that Ellie won't want to be with him around him anymore,
when literally everyone else Abby included like all of her crew.
(47:36):
The price is not what you're thinking, my friend, right,
But he does say I'll do it all over again.
I do it all over again. And this is where
Ellie calls himselfish. And I do think, like going back
to what I was saying earlier, there's no doubt in
my mind that he cares about her and she cares
(47:57):
about him at all. But I think that he's he's
so he has so much trauma from what happened to Sarah,
his daughter, that he that's all That's why he was
like the prices, you won't want to be around me anymore.
That's what he's thinking about. He just can't stand to
(48:21):
lose her. And he says, you know, when it's your return,
I hope you do better than me, just like his
dad said. And this is also interesting because in the
context of Ellie's one of the big scenes from the
previous season was when she says everyone's always left me,
everyone except for you, and her fear of being alone
(48:46):
and having this kind of intersection of where that rubs
against each other in conflict. But yeah, as you mentioned,
there's also the famous al mug he does. He has
a car think of an owl, and there's been a
lot of breakdown of what the symbolism of that might mean,
which seems to be mostly people think Joel thinks he's
(49:08):
really wise, but he's really more violent than he thinks,
is right. But yes, you can interact with that. In
the game, you basically walk through his whole house and
could pick up these items that you saw that remind
you of him, and the cup is one the museum
brochures one. Oh yeah, but that's also why she put
the coffee grounds the coffee beans on Joel's grave, which
(49:33):
is that's also something very telling of when you lose someone,
that last thing that you talk to them with or
whatever it is, it kind of resonates with you. But
he did love coffee, so I'm sure he was a
big fan. I love that was a good good thing
to put on his grave.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Well, he does say you I would be I'm embarrassed
to what I had to trade for this, So that
does imply yes, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Once again I'll say it, you've never know. The last
time you'll see someone in this episode is very much
And then yeah, that brings us back to the theater.
After Ellie has said I don't know if I can
forgive you for this, but I'd like to try. And
that's one of the most painful things is she never
(50:21):
got to try. And again, as someone who had a
bad relationship with my dad when he died, it is
it just it's hard to let go. So one thing
about the scene that's different from the game is that
it's two scenes combined. So the porch scene is combined
(50:44):
with the scene that happens in the middle after Nora,
where actually Ellie ran away to Salt Lake City and
found the evidence herself and she found like all these
old tape cassettes about what happened, and then he finds
her and then it kind of plays out similarly, and
then you get the porch scene at the end of
(51:07):
the game. When she returns to the theater. In the game,
she is covered in blood and traumatized. I guess we'll
see she's not covered in blood, but traumatized. I would say, probably,
And yeah, I mean that's what we're gonna one more
episode left. We're gonna see is Ellie doing better than Joel.
(51:30):
We don't know. I do think like this whole idea
of no one knows what they're doing and justifications is
interesting because Joel's dad was very much justifying himself, and
then Joel was doing that too. And it's also interesting
because when I did forgive my dad, it was after
he died, but when I did it was in part
(51:53):
because I knew more of his past and I was like, oh,
I can see right where this came from. And I
also just shout out to Ellie the courage of confronting someone,
because she I think it was she did know it,
(52:15):
but it was nice. Like, if you're alone in the
world and there's somebody that you like and it's going
to protect you in this kind of father daughter dynamic,
then confronting that and possibly losing that is very scary.
But anyway, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Maybe we'll see you again.
(52:42):
My mom would listen. I was crying to everybody. I'm
right there with you. This is how I cope, this
is how I cope. I'm very excited, but I am
also I'm nervous because they have so far to go
and I don't know how they're gonna end it. But
(53:04):
I did notice the Ferris wheel is in the The
Fairest Wheel is in the next week on That's like
a big point in the game. Mm, well, you'll see listeners.
We'll stay tuned for our our take on the finale.
But yes, in the meantime, please email us if you
(53:26):
would like to reach us. You can email us at
Hello at stuff Iever Told You dot com. You can
find us on lue Sky, Mopster podcast, or on Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube. We have a tea public store, and we
have a book you can get where we get your books.
Thanks and always to a super produced Christina, our executive
Brusa Maya, and our contructor Joey.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Steffan Never Told You the projection of by Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or if you
listen to your favorite shows, Love
Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
the pin Ultimate the pin ultimate episode of our Last
(00:25):
of Us Season two reaction mini series. Again, they are
not a sponsor. Shame, it's a real shame. But here
we are doing any Way out of love because the
second Game is my favorite game of all time. They
are splitting up. I read another article recently that said
(00:47):
into three seasons, so really, yeah, this is part one.
They said the next season is going to be longer
because I believe the exact quote was the narrative bomb
of Joel dying was too hard to get away from.
So this season is like that. Okay, but they said
(01:10):
that we have more room to explore in the next
season and potentially the next But anyway, spoilers. Hopefully if
you clicked on this, because I just gave you the
biggest one, you've already caught up. You're already caught up.
But we're going to spoil the most recent episode and
(01:34):
previous episodes of the second season of the Last of
Us show, the first season, the game, first game, parts
of the second game. But I'm trying to avoid like
big game parts. So I have to tell you, I
don't even know what they're going to do half the
time anymore, So it could I don't know who knows, Yes, yes,
(01:58):
this There's all only one more episode left in this season,
so during this time we are not doing our Sex
and the City, Watch React podcast or fiction ones to
give Christina some more breathing room. But we will come
back to those in June. And yeah, normally Smith and
(02:24):
I watched these together, we didn't get to do it
this one, which is the same because you would have
laughed at how hard I cried.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I should have been there just to take pictures.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It was bad, it was bad news. But this does
bring me to a funny story that I have. I
finally got to meet up with my mom for Mother's Day.
I know, I'm so late, but we finally got to
meet up, and I told her I was honest, and
(02:58):
I said, one of the reasons I've been so busy
is for doing these last of Us watch parties and
it's just like a whole day, and so I don't
have time on Sundays to do it. Anyway. She I
told her this, and we were at a restaurant and
she like rested her head back on the booth with
(03:19):
a groan, and then put her hands in front of
her on the table and rested her forehead on her
hands and said, how could they kill him? He's so attractive?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean many people would agree with her and have
agreed with her.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I was not expecting this at all. A shocking take from.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
My mom, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I did not know she was watching it, and she
kind of she watched the last season and she loved it,
and when we got to the end, she said, oh,
it's kind of a happy ending. Joel and Ellie get
to live happily ever after together. And I stayed very silent. Betrayal.
(04:06):
I was like, well, she said, how could you not
tell me they.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Were going to do this betrayal?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
But it was so funny. And then I told her,
I said, well, you know, Pedro Pascal is coming back,
because she hadn't caught up on the most recent episode,
and she sagged in relief and was like, oh really,
And then I said, but really only for that, right,
(04:36):
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Not coming back for like more than like a couple
of flashbacks, especially like as we keep going, I bet
that'd bring him at least once a season.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I think they'll bring him in. If we were sticking
to the game, this would be it. We wouldn't, right,
I bet they'll bring him him from one more at
least one more flashback, but I don't think much more
than that. But she it was so funny. She was
talking to me all about it and all her thoughts.
(05:08):
It was a wonderful time. But I just love her.
First reaction was it.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Was to talk to you about ready to talk about it,
and then she had to give herselves a moment and
then that was the statement, I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, And there were people in the restaurant. There were
other people like looking beautiful at it. It was great.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
They were like, what's happening? People would understand, they would understand,
they would understand.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But she was very She had a moment of intense
reaction and then anger, and then we just talked about it.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So yeah, well that's where we are with this episode. Actually,
we are kind of at the eulogy. So the way
these work is Samantha gives the recap and then I
go through my thoughts. So Samantha, would you like to
give the recap?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Here we go, so we have antying opening I guess
with two children, like it took me a minute to
figure out what was going on, by the way, I
was like what, And they're like, the youngest one is
obviously brothers saying he's gonna, you know, use the belt,
He's gonna hit me all these things, and the older
ones like, no, he won't touch you, I will get hit.
So he sends him off to his room. And it
(06:18):
turns out it is younger Joel and Tommy, and obviously
the father is abusive. The father comes in, he's a sheriff.
You're like, what the hell or a police officer, and
I'm like, oh, bad news. And they had this hole
back and forth in which essentially Joel's challenging him. It's like,
you're not touching him. I'll take it he didn't do
(06:38):
anything wrong, tries to lie. The father does something unexpected
and goes like, grabs a drink, brings one for him,
and he sits down and then tells the story about
how he got punched in the face by his father,
couldn't eat for weeks and all these things, and you're like,
what the hell, And then you know a Joel responds
with and how could you do that to us if
you know how this feels. And he's like, I've never
hit y'all like that, I've never been this bad, and
(07:00):
I've done better than my father. And then he goes
on to say, when you have your own, my hope
is that you'll do better than me. Cut two, we
have birthday scene to Ellie. Very cute come in. He's
talking to Seth at one point and you see them
trading off because he gets legos and then he's like,
I want this by tomorrow and they're like what. I'm
(07:22):
sitting there like what are we getting? Amo he says
vanilla or chocolate. Vanilla is faster. He's like, fine and vanilla.
And then he also gets like a bone marrow piece
and he's working on this guitar beautifully done, and gets
a painting of or drawing which is very famous drawing
into this game and have this moment and it turns
(07:42):
out it is Ellie's fifteenth birthday. He gets her a
kate that's his Happy Birthday Eli, which is a whole thing,
but it gets so good. Ellie eats it with her
hands and talks about how good it is. He gives
her a present, which is the guitar with her drawing
on it, which is a moth, and they have a
little bit of a moment. It's very sweet moment. And
then we have this, oh yeah, before she had burned
(08:06):
her arms. This is where she's burned her arms, right,
and Tommy brings it in. She's on like painkillers and suys.
I just wanted to wear short sleeves. That's a whole
whole damn thing. And then a year later, for the
sixteenth birthday, this is where I got confused. We have
a moment and they're going exploring, and then we see
this whole cute view about how they need to go
(08:28):
exploring more often, all these things, and then he brings
her to the area after a fun conversation about birds
and bees and Jesse is mentioned here. And then as
they go up he has found the museum with dinosaurs
and astronauts, and they have this amazing scene, very heartfelt moment.
(08:48):
You love it. They love each other, having your great time.
You have the moment where she hears the takeoff in
the astronauts and gets her own helmet and beautiful and
I'm sure you're already crying by this point, right, And
it wasn't good, Okay, and moving on. We go on
to the seventeenth birthday, where it becomes a little more
(09:12):
awkward and he hears noises. He's got okay. He hears
noises in her bedroom, busts through and turns out.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
He's with.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
A girl and they've been making out. And then also
baby a tattoo was involved, and he in drugs and
he's like, you're doing all of this all at once? Why?
And then they have this like blowout, and then then
he goes away, and he goes and we see Gail
and he has a conversation about, you know, a couple
of things, including about her tattoo, which is a moth,
(09:39):
and he asks her what it is it's about, and
they come to realize it's about death when he, you know,
the father moment of like pretending I'm trying to figure
it out, and he thought it was a butterfly about
new life and all these things. But it is a
father daughter exchange. But it is getting more and more
awkward as the birthdays come as she is growing. We
jump ahead two years to nineteen and his birthday gets
(10:00):
to her after By the way, she's moved into the
garage at this point and she's practicing a whole scene
about trying to figure out what happened.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, at the hospital, right, she's written questions. She wants
to ask him about what happens.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But she doesn't quite get there yet, and we jumped
two years later and he takes her training train for
hunting and all of that stuff, and they have this
woman he kind of like, you know, he's giving her
like I would like to spend more time. This would
be nice if we could do these together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But at that point we get an emergency call about
(10:35):
something happening and he tries to go and tells her
to go back to Jackson and she's like, hell, no,
I'm not your daughter, I'm your partner. And he's like
all right, fine, and they go together and they come
uposus one Horde scene of a horse dragging a person
obviously who had died, had been eaten or gotten bitten,
one of those two things, And then come up and
we meet Eugene, the infamous Eugene, who is like, I'm okay,
(11:00):
but yeah I got bit. And at this point he's
like look, look, look, and Joel's ready, let's shoot him.
Immediately he's like, we're sorry, he's like, no, no, no,
I need to see Gil, who is his wife. He's like,
I need to see Gil. I need to talk to her.
I need to tell her something. I have to tell
her something. And Joel's like, you know I can't do that.
You're about to turn He's like no really, And then Ellie,
(11:20):
with her empathy, was like, wait, do these tests. Let's
see how long you got figures out he's got time.
She's like, I can go get the horse. You can
come my way and we can get him there before
he passes away and he can talk to he can
or before he becomes a zombie or needs to be shot,
and you can talk to he can talk to Gil.
And she's like, promise me. He's like I promise, and
like all these things. So she goes off to do
this and they have this moment and he, Eugene and
(11:44):
Joel are walking. Joel leads him to the water and
Eugene knows for what's about to happen. He's like, man,
I need to do this. He's like I'm sorry, I
can't let you. I have to protect my family. And
then he's like, what do you want to tell Gil?
And he's like, I don't want to tell Gil and
I need her to tell me that I'm okay. I
need her to talk me through this. I need her.
It was a very sweet moment, and as we like
(12:07):
pan away, we come back to Ellie coming back with
a horse and he is he has shot Eugene and
he lies and says, there was no way we could
do anything about this. You know, we had to do
this right. He was all these things, and then he's like,
we will tell Gil what she needs to hear, and
that's how it goes. And then they go back and
(12:30):
he tries to tell her all these things about how
he loved her and he was brave he shot himself,
and Ellie was not having it, and then just says
everything that he did it was a lie. And she
ends up with him saying, you swore. I've seen that
look and I know you swore, And that's kind of
how that ends. Gail gets a good slap in the
(12:50):
face of Joel, kind of deserved, honestly, and we have
a tried like we see the moment of what happened,
and she talking to him. Essentially at this point they
haven't talked about anything else, and he knows that he
is lost because he knows that she knows he's lying.
He's been lying all this time. They have another time
(13:12):
jump to that scene where she just faces him on
after the New Year's Eve incident, that all that shows
and happens, and how he is Uncle Grumpy. All the
things went down at that point, and you see him
on the porch with his coffee with his al mug,
which is also infamous in this world. And she walks up,
(13:33):
stands at him and looks like she goes to her
garage area, but doesn't turns around and comes back on
the porch and they have a heart to heart and
she asks them all the questions and he's like, She's like,
this is your last chance. You have to tell me
the truth, and which he does tell her, Yes he
did kill them, Yes they could have had a cure. Yes,
he selfishly made this decision. And he tells essentially, but
(14:01):
this is the price I will pay for what he
has done. And then he also says I would not
I would choose this again. I would choose it all
over again to save you. She says selfish, and the
end says the quote, I don't think I can ever
forgive you for this but I would like to try
cut scene and we see Ellie coming back to the theater.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And rain present day. Yep, yeah, that's what That's what
destroys me, that scene, the porch scene. I cry the
most of that scene. It wrecks me in the show,
it wrects me in the game.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So this episode is called The Price, and if you
notice in the credits, it's two figures again because it's
Joel and Ellie again. But this is, as I said,
the eulogy of Joel, this is where we're saying, like,
don't get too excited, folks, goodbye, goodbye, my friend. But
(15:15):
it is also all about cycles of It's both cycles
of progress but also cycles of just you're stuck in
the same thing. So the flashback that opens it with
young Joel and Tommy is not in the game. It's
alluded to very vaguely that their childhood was abusive, but
(15:41):
it's never made clear. It's never made specific. Tommy has
a quote where he says something like Joel's protection wasn't
worth it, and I always assumed that that meant what
they did to survive during the apocalypse, but it's possible
(16:03):
he was talking about further than that, and there's a
couple of other offhanded things where you could interpret it
in that way. But you kind of see him already
having this, you know, kind of understandable, honestly tendency to
(16:24):
lie to protect someone, to resort to violence to protect someone,
because he had started beating up the kids that were
selling drugs to Tommy. But I also think it's interesting
that his dad, who is a cop, says immediately like,
(16:46):
do you think I wouldn't find out about this? Like
it's a lie that had a lot of room to
fall apart. It was easy to verify that that was
not what happened, but he was willing to do it,
and he was willing to take the pain for it.
But also this whole idea of you know, I hope
(17:06):
you do better than me. And you do see instances
of Joel. A lot of people have written essays about
this that I've read that you see a lot of
instances of him when he's in Jackson where he's really
trying to make life instead of death, Like he's instead
(17:27):
of like doing violent things. He's carving all these like
owls statues, and he's making a guitar and he's brewing alcohol,
like he's a very like he's making things. So he
did have progress in that way, and we'll talk a
bit more about some of the other progress yet. But
(17:48):
you also see the watch, the infamous watch on his
dad's wrists, so that is being passed down. I think
it's interesting again that Ellie did not take the watch.
She took the gun, So it's sort of what are
you picking up from what's being passed down? And we
(18:09):
do see like a couple instances of characters with their children,
like Seth, who we met first as a homophobic character,
is talking about his grandkids and how they would love
the legos that Joel found and how he was a cop,
(18:30):
which is Joel visually was like oh yeah, oh no,
but like you see, he cares about his kids. And
then you see Tommy with his kid. And now you
have Joel who has really assumed the role of Ellie's father,
even though she's kind of shafing at it because like
(18:51):
at first it was all about protection and now he's
doing the like, oh you got a tattoo, very very
paternal kind of action. But the episode is told mostly
through at Ellie's birthdays. It's a series of flashbacks told
mostly through her birthdays, and it does start with her fifteenth,
(19:16):
and that's when we see I just kind of wanted
to mention I thought it was funny that Seth is
making Ellie's cake when he's homophobic, and there's kind of
that whole you know, I won't make cake for gay people,
so kind of made me laugh in the sad way.
But yes, yeah, but he's the one that makes the cake.
(19:40):
And that's when we do get the the relevation that
she has burned her arm purposefully because she wanted to
wear short sleeves, and she she says in there, it's
they're giving us a lot of hints about how reckless
(20:02):
she is, or like how she makes impulsive decisions, because
she says like I just saw it and then I
just did it, So we're seeing more of that. But
then we do have a very sweet scene where she
eats the cake with her hands, which I think is
supposed to be like she grew up in the Apocalypse
and so whatever. But then Joel plays the song the
(20:25):
whole song for her, the Pearl Jam song Future Days,
which she couldn't play in a previous episode because she's
still stuck in this trauma, but he plays that for
her and with the guitar that he made, which, by
the way, the bone that you mentioned is for the
bone bridge through guitar, So he made this guitar and
(20:49):
he has kind of a cute stumbley speech about how
much work he put into it, and she's just like, oh, God,
sure plays something for me. So they have this really
nice moment and then it jumps to the next birthday
and this is the one. This scene. Oh everyone knows.
(21:10):
Everyone knows it. Even the museum that this scene is
based on, was like, I can't believe, how amazing, how
did you do this? But anyway, he takes Ellie. Joel
takes Ellie to a museum that he found and there
is a big t Rex statue out front that Ellie
(21:33):
climbs to the top of, which, by the way, is
a missible thing. I missed it the first time I
played it, but you can climb to the top. They
did cut out I think they shot it, but they
cut out the scene where they go and look at
all the other dinosaurs. But that's where the Indiana Jones
hat easter egg that we mentioned comes from, because she
(21:54):
picks up a hat makes Joel wear them, and dinosaurs
wear them and all this stuff. But then they get
to the space exhibit, which is as we know, Ellie
loves space, and it is really sweet because it shows
he knows the things she loves the most. He knows
she has this interest in dinosaurs and this interest in space.
(22:17):
In the game, he started reading the comics she loved
Savage Starlight, which you can see posters of in her room.
But he says to her, would you like to go
to space? And then shows her this capsule that's in
the museum and says, you can't go to space without
a helmet. The helmet she chooses is from It's a
(22:41):
Gemini helmet, which is one of the helmets that was
used during the Apollo explosion that she talked about a
couple episodes ago. But so that's not the greatest symbolism.
But also Jemini means duality, and that's what a lot
of this season is about Ellie versus Abby. All of
(23:07):
these things. I hats off to everyone who's written about this.
I love it. And then he gives Ellie. He tells
her to close her eyes and gives her a tape,
a cassette tape and she puts the earbuds in, puts
(23:27):
in the tape and it is the sound of a launch,
a space launch, and she closes her eyes and she
has this really beautiful moment where she's in her imagination
and she's thinking about what it would look like to
go to space, which I think is very It's both
(23:49):
very like one of the last hang ons of her
childhood and being so interested in that, but I think
it's also very escapist because if you lived in that world,
I would see being like, you know what, if I
can go it out her space? Right, that sounds great,
but alas, you must come back down. Also, Samantha gave
(24:13):
me that tape for one of my birthdays and I
loved it.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Did you listen to it?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I didn't know if I did or not.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah. Uh So they had this beautiful moment and then
Joel asked, did I do okay? And she says, are
you kidding me? That was like the best thing ever.
And she's like kind of teared up, and he's kind
of teared up, which I think is really sweet because
he's obviously really happy that she's happy. And it's interesting
(24:48):
to me because in the the actors were told not
to play the games. I did, right, I believe Bella did.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I think young Mazino has, like he had already when
he auditioned, so some of them have, but I know
Pedro Pascal has not. He tried to, and then I
think he got too scared.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
He was too bad at it, too bad at it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah. But anyway, it's interesting because in his kind of
retelling of how why Joel was reacting this way, it
was that he was so happy. He made her happy,
and that's the best thing you can do for someone.
But I've always kind of interpreted it as he needed
(25:38):
the affirmation, like the he needed somebody to tell him, oh,
I'm doing okay. Yeah, yes, I am still doing the
right thing here in this story. And we'll talk about
that a little bit more later. I do think he
was happy for her. I think there was space for both,
but that sort of like always needing because he has
(26:02):
a bunch of other moments like that in this episode
where he's like, we should hang out more. This is
so fun, we should like. He just has a lot
of stuff like that, and then also, yeah, just a
hammer home. If you haven't heard the song Future Days,
look up the lyrics and you'll be the future days
never come out of the way. He just said that.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah, but that's like that scene is one of
the most beautiful sections of the game. It does include
another part they cut out where they go to another museum. Oh,
I am sad they cut that out now that I
think about it, because they go into the museum but
(26:52):
Joel can't get in. Ellie's small enough to get in,
and she's trying to find another way to exit, and
this bore wild boar keeps like attacking her, and it's
really scary because it's dark and you just hear this sound,
and there's all these scary messages on the wall, like
(27:14):
they let the children starve and all this stuff, and
you come out at one point from crawling and there's
just this all of these a statue of wolves surrounding
a moose and it's so symbolic and so creepy. And
then Ellie finds this the firefly emblem, and underneath it
(27:39):
said it was hope was all the lie. And then
Joel finds his way in, and it's just real awkward
because she's like, should I bring this up? And he's like,
please don't bring it up. But they kind of have
that moment in the show when she sees the fireflies
around the tree and it's like something is not right.
(28:02):
But yes, that scene is a beautiful scene, but it
does happen right after the whole Nora thing, where after
Ellie tortures Nora. It's that scene. So some people like
really hated that pacing. I liked it because it was like,
oh my god, I need a moment. Then we skip
(28:32):
to the next birthday, which is full of the teenage
stuff that you mentioned, and we get the return of
cat Kat, Ellie's X that was in the first episode,
and I was so excited because she's like a mention
in the game. She's in Ellie's journal, but you could
miss it completely if you don't read her journal. So
(28:56):
it's kind of fun to see her. But as I said,
she is the one that gave Ellie her tat too,
and I love how she was like, it will look
better once I fill it in, as if that was
why Joel was mad. But yeah, So basically, Joel came
home early to celebrate Ellie's birthday with chocolate cake this
(29:17):
time the fancy stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
The fancy one, and.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
There was Kat and Ellie seemingly having an intimate physical moment,
and Ellie has gotten the tattoo, is smoking pots and
he's just outraged and says, like all the teenage stuff
at once. Then it is interesting because of how the
(29:48):
show started, with how his dad reacted to Tommy getting the
weed and that whole thing, and how he reacts, and
he is he does feel like a very like conservative
parent here. I mean, I get it. I'm not a parent,
but I understand if you come home and all this
(30:10):
stuff that's happening, right, But they have this kind of
fight about it. He says she's experimenting with girls, which,
by the way, there was a funny scene in the
previous birthday where he was like, it's something going on
between you and Jesse and she was like oh no, no, no,
(30:30):
no no. He was like, oh, I've got a key
and I for this, and she was like, no, you
really don't. But she says it wasn't an experiment, and
he says, I'll come back when you're more yourself. She's oof, oof,
oof oof, and that's when she tries to move into
(30:51):
the garage, and this I knew was going to have
a ton of Easter eggs in it, and it did
because when she's like packing up her stuff. The album
cover the album you can see is an album that's
famous from being in Kill Bill. She's very famously pretty
(31:14):
revenge oriented story. There's a bunch of stuff like that. Also,
again shout out to the Easter egg videos that somehow
make these videos within like five hours. But anyway, that
is one of them. But he does ask about her
tattoo after they have this fight, and he kind of
(31:39):
she says it's from it's from like a dream, a
book about dream she read. He kind of surmises it
means growth and stuff, doesn't really ask her. It's just
kind of like, oh, like growth and stuff, and she's
like like change and sure. But the next day he
finds Gail the town on Arapist and she is like,
(32:04):
oh no, it means death. And if you think about
the symbolism of a moth, to me, it would be
like it's death. It's drawn to light that you can
never get a lot of people have written about how
maybe it symbolizes sort of an addiction or something like
with her addiction to getting revenge. Some people think it's
(32:25):
the like look to the light, fireflies. Yeah, kind of
whole thing. But if you look at her sketches, because
she has a lot of sketches of this moth, which
he Joel did, I think a pretty good job when
he made it in her guitar on the bridge, it says,
on those sketches, you have greater purpose. And she puts
(32:49):
that tattoo over her bite, and she has been living
with this guilt and survivor's guilt of I got this
bite and I always thought I was going to die
and then I didn't, and I've been waiting to be
the next person to die and I don't. So I
think it's very purposeful that she put it over her bite.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Also, Gail's book that she's reading, Earth Abides, I think
it's called in It It is a very it's about
the apocalypse, and in it, the last man who can
read dies, and so the idea is no one will
learn how to read once he dies. And so I
(33:33):
think the implication is once Gail dies, they aren't going
to have mental health and I'm not going to have
a therapist. Ay.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, I'm surprised anybody's doing mental health.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I know that is new new to the show, but
I do love Gail, so I'm very happy. So this
is like, I feel, this is sort of my soap box,
one of two I have too, but they're short, I promise.
I feel Joel wants Ellie to be who he wants
(34:08):
and not who she actually is. He only wanted the
answer from Gail that he wanted. He didn't actually want
the answer, He just wanted the reassurance and affirmation I
was talking about. And I think that the last of
us fandom, not all of us, obviously, but a lot
(34:28):
of it is kind of like this too. We all
liked Ellie when she was under his protection and looked
up to him, but now a lot of folks are
like this. I'm grateful, and I just sometimes I'm like,
did I wasn't really a rebellious teenager, but I feel
like a lot of people were, and you can't connect
(34:50):
with that at all. He's done his wrongs, which we'll
get into, and what he did girls like why, that's
really cool and to Eugene to his face. Yeah yeah,
and we'll get to that more too, because it was
(35:11):
really unnecessary for multiple reasons. But yes, people are often like, oh,
Joel saved your life, Ellie, what are you doing. But
she was ready to die. However you feel about that,
she was ready to die. She thought she was going
to die when she got bit, and she did say
she was waiting for her turn. Also, you can see
(35:34):
my recent episodes on Cool People Who Do Cool Stuff,
which was a two parter about vaccines. But it's frustrating
to me about how individualistic people can be about this
instead of thinking about the community. And I've been guilty
of this too for a long time. I didn't get
the flu vaccine because I was like, oh, oh, I
don't get the flu, and then somebody was like, yeah,
(35:55):
it's not about you, it's about other people who might
get the flu from you. But I mean, Joel could
have gotten a vaccine if it worked in this world,
and that's honestly about the best they were going to do.
And it's gone. I mean it's gone. So Joel keeps
(36:17):
saying like he understands, but he doesn't. He says to Ellie,
I understand that he doesn't. He says to Eugene, I
understand that he doesn't. He said that in the first
season too. You can there are different levels if I
can relate to I've had a loss and I can
relate to, but I feel like he's fundamentally actually misunderstanding
(36:38):
right or not willing to even try. And I did
forget one of the most important parallels in the last episode,
which was Joel's choice to save Ellie versus I called
her Eliza, But it's Elise, Elise's choice. Who is the
woman at the beginning who was like my son Leon,
(36:59):
we see all him and l's what he said, that's
what he asked for, and that's what we did. So
she listened to the choice he made and made this
very painful decision for the community. And that's the thing
is like the agency. I think Ellie's so angry because
(37:21):
agency is being taken from her at every turn, Choices
are being taken from her because even like you know,
Joel and Marlene. I think we're going to get more
of this in the next season. But there's kind of
a bigger thing that happened behind the decision to just
(37:42):
go ahead with the vaccine. But Marlene was like, you
know what, you're right, Let's wake her up and ask her,
and then Joel just shoots her. Shoots Marlene. So I
think that Joel loves Ellie. I believe that's true, but
(38:03):
I also think that whole thing was kind of about
him and not about Ellie, and I think her revenge
quest is more about her than it is about Joel.
But I have so many thoughts. I have something that
I have had. Somebody, at least one listener wrote into
(38:23):
me and was like, you can't understand because you don't
have a kid. I mean, I guess that's true, but
I kind of like I can be empathetic to things.
I'm not saying that would have been easy, but he
killed life thirty people, right, So But I just bring
(38:46):
that up because in the show, they added in a
line that Joel doesn't have in the game where he says,
you know you will never He tells Ellie you'll never understand,
basically imply because you don't have a kid, and until
you have a kid, you will never understand what I did.
But just just a reminder Ellie knew Marlene.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Just a reminder, like, and the story was even deeper
that the mother he knew her mother.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah yeah, connection, just just remind you, right, Yeah. But
also like I think it's I like that Dina gave
Ellie the choice that Joel took from her too. Where
she's like, I'll go back if you want. I'll go
with you if you want. But she gave that choice
(39:38):
to Ellie. But that does bring us to our infamous
Abby Abby Abby, because her choice was kind of taken
from her, but now she's made her own and it's
spiraled out into this whole thing that we're going to
be seeing all of the consequences of. But yes, this
(40:00):
does bring us two lies, the lies we tell. And
so Ellie has been stewing on this, been thinking about
there's so many holes in Joel's story. I have all
these questions. The tension is rising between them. They finally
go on patrol because he lets her. He finally is like, okay,
(40:22):
I'll let you go, and when something actually happens, he
tells her to turn around and she says, I'm not
your kid, Joel, I'm your partner. And so this is
when we get to Eugene's death because they find Eugene.
He's been bitten. He says, I got an hour, let's go,
let me talk to Gail and then you can kill me.
Like he was very he knew what was up, but
(40:44):
he wanted to hear her final words and have his
final words, and Ellie does this test and it's like, yeah,
he's got time, let's do it. And she looks at
Joel and he's like, no, I promise, we'll do it.
You go get the horses. I will walk you down.
And the thing that's really gets to me about this
(41:07):
scene is technically Joel was the only one at risk
of infection because Ellie was fine. So I were I
guess we're to assume he didn't want anyone to find
out she wasn't at risk of infection, or he's being
too overprotective, or he's just like set in his ways
(41:29):
and doesn't care, and that's it doesn't have room for
this empathy. I mean, I was even thinking about it
on my last rewatch. I was like, you know, Eugene
could have been immune. We don't know for sure, right,
I don't think he was, but he could have been.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Well. He said at one point he was cold. He
make you cold. But there could be the argument, and
I will say this that he knew bringing Eugene back.
What if he turns and then attacks Gail or Gail
does something to let him go because she doesn't want
to see him shot, and then he goes into the
(42:07):
village like there's there are other risks, but it does
seem rather cold.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Very yeah, very and he so he takes his Eugene
to a very scenic place and kills him, shoots him
in the back of the head, and then lies to
Gail and he tries to control what Ellie's gonna say, right,
(42:33):
because he's like, yeah, I had to do it, there's
no choice, and he yeah, completely makes up this whole
story for Gail, like, oh yeah, the last he just
wanted to tell you he loved you, and he did
it himself. And he keeps saying like it was the
right thing to do. Meanwhile Ellie is clearly stewing over there.
(42:55):
But anyway, this does recontextualize the conversation Gail had with
Ellie about last moments, because Gail says, you know, the
last moments shouldn't define our whole relationship, but they often do,
and now knowing she was robbed of that. But so
Ellie hears this and has had enough and tells Gail
(43:17):
what really happens, and Gail slaps Joel and then Ellie says,
you swore, which was a very purposeful choice to you
swore versus promise, because now we're referring to the fireflies
and what Joel said happened with the fireflies. And it
is also sad if you think about it, that when Eugene,
(43:42):
right before he dies, he says, I just want to
see her face, and Joel's like, oh, if you love someone,
you can always see their face.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, that was me.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And then guess what happens. The last thing Joel saw
was Ellie's face.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah. And this is a scene that got cut out
of the game, but Ellie has a lot of tense
moments with Joel where she'll say, if only they had
a cure, right, if only they had a cure, And
this is I think her survivor was guilt of, like
if only Eugene had had a cure, he could have lived.
(44:30):
This brings us to the porch scene. The infamous porch scene.
You do have a moment that's not in the game
with the POV from Joel about this party, this New
Year's party where Maria and he have a suite. But
you're like, oh, well, he'll be dead tomorrow. Conversation. Tommy's
(44:51):
like see you next year, and I'm like nope, yeah,
oh no. Uh. But the porch conversation. I can't. It
destores me every time. This is the last memory Ellie
has of Joel. This is the last memory as an
audience will probably have of Joel unless they bring it back.
(45:13):
But it says she walks by, and then she comes
back to the porch to talk to Joel after they've
had this open altercation in front of everybody in the town.
And she starts it with asking about kind of small talk,
but then she starts it with asking for independence. She's like,
(45:34):
I never want to hear you tell me about what
patrols I can do again. I never want to do
all this. And then he asked her about Dina and
the kiss that they had, and you do see his
growth here because he doesn't seem to think it's an experiment.
He's like, oh, she would be lucky to have you.
So he did grow in that way, and he did
(45:57):
agree to the patrol thing. They were supposed to patrol
together the next day.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
But then she just can't pretend. Ellie can't pretend things
are normal anymore, and so she asked him a bunch
of her questions about what happened at Salt Lake City
with the fireflies and Joel still can't even say it.
In the game, he could say it, but he never
was able to voice it out loud, to say it
out loud as Gail asked him to in the first episode,
(46:27):
he just nods and he admits that yes, there could
have been a cure, which up ended a lot of fandom,
by the way, because they're like really like yes, but anyway,
because it was kind of did we weren't sure if
he believed there could have been a cure, but in
here it's clear he believed there could have been a
(46:48):
cure and killed Marlene, killed all these the fireflies, lied
to her about it, and she Ellie basically saw the
same look in his eyes when he lied about Eugene
that he had when he lied about the firefly. So
that's that was her final piece of evidence. And she says,
(47:12):
you took that from me. I was supposed to die there,
and you took that from me. You took that from everyone,
And he says, I know, and that's the price I'll pay.
But he also says the price in his head is
that Ellie won't want to be with him around him anymore,
when literally everyone else Abby included like all of her crew.
(47:36):
The price is not what you're thinking, my friend, right,
But he does say I'll do it all over again.
I do it all over again. And this is where
Ellie calls himselfish. And I do think, like going back
to what I was saying earlier, there's no doubt in
my mind that he cares about her and she cares
(47:57):
about him at all. But I think that he's he's
so he has so much trauma from what happened to Sarah,
his daughter, that he that's all That's why he was
like the prices, you won't want to be around me anymore.
That's what he's thinking about. He just can't stand to
(48:21):
lose her. And he says, you know, when it's your return,
I hope you do better than me, just like his
dad said. And this is also interesting because in the
context of Ellie's one of the big scenes from the
previous season was when she says everyone's always left me,
everyone except for you, and her fear of being alone
(48:46):
and having this kind of intersection of where that rubs
against each other in conflict. But yeah, as you mentioned,
there's also the famous al mug he does. He has
a car think of an owl, and there's been a
lot of breakdown of what the symbolism of that might mean,
which seems to be mostly people think Joel thinks he's
(49:08):
really wise, but he's really more violent than he thinks,
is right. But yes, you can interact with that. In
the game, you basically walk through his whole house and
could pick up these items that you saw that remind
you of him, and the cup is one the museum
brochures one. Oh yeah, but that's also why she put
the coffee grounds the coffee beans on Joel's grave, which
(49:33):
is that's also something very telling of when you lose someone,
that last thing that you talk to them with or
whatever it is, it kind of resonates with you. But
he did love coffee, so I'm sure he was a
big fan. I love that was a good good thing
to put on his grave.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Well, he does say you I would be I'm embarrassed
to what I had to trade for this, So that
does imply yes, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Once again I'll say it, you've never know. The last
time you'll see someone in this episode is very much
And then yeah, that brings us back to the theater.
After Ellie has said I don't know if I can
forgive you for this, but I'd like to try. And
that's one of the most painful things is she never
(50:21):
got to try. And again, as someone who had a
bad relationship with my dad when he died, it is
it just it's hard to let go. So one thing
about the scene that's different from the game is that
it's two scenes combined. So the porch scene is combined
(50:44):
with the scene that happens in the middle after Nora,
where actually Ellie ran away to Salt Lake City and
found the evidence herself and she found like all these
old tape cassettes about what happened, and then he finds
her and then it kind of plays out similarly, and
then you get the porch scene at the end of
(51:07):
the game. When she returns to the theater. In the game,
she is covered in blood and traumatized. I guess we'll
see she's not covered in blood, but traumatized. I would say, probably,
And yeah, I mean that's what we're gonna one more
episode left. We're gonna see is Ellie doing better than Joel.
(51:30):
We don't know. I do think like this whole idea
of no one knows what they're doing and justifications is
interesting because Joel's dad was very much justifying himself, and
then Joel was doing that too. And it's also interesting
because when I did forgive my dad, it was after
he died, but when I did it was in part
(51:53):
because I knew more of his past and I was like, oh,
I can see right where this came from. And I
also just shout out to Ellie the courage of confronting someone,
because she I think it was she did know it,
(52:15):
but it was nice. Like, if you're alone in the
world and there's somebody that you like and it's going
to protect you in this kind of father daughter dynamic,
then confronting that and possibly losing that is very scary.
But anyway, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Maybe we'll see you again.
(52:42):
My mom would listen. I was crying to everybody. I'm
right there with you. This is how I cope, this
is how I cope. I'm very excited, but I am
also I'm nervous because they have so far to go
and I don't know how they're gonna end it. But
(53:04):
I did notice the Ferris wheel is in the The
Fairest Wheel is in the next week on That's like
a big point in the game. Mm, well, you'll see listeners.
We'll stay tuned for our our take on the finale.
But yes, in the meantime, please email us if you
(53:26):
would like to reach us. You can email us at
Hello at stuff Iever Told You dot com. You can
find us on lue Sky, Mopster podcast, or on Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube. We have a tea public store, and we
have a book you can get where we get your books.
Thanks and always to a super produced Christina, our executive
Brusa Maya, and our contructor Joey.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Steffan Never Told You the projection of by Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or if you
listen to your favorite shows, Love
Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah
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