April 30, 2025 • 43 mins
On the face of it, Evie magazine appears to be a publication aimed towards women focusing on things like relationships and pop culture. However, digging deeper reveals an extremist conservative ideology. Bridget Todd joins us to break it down and discuss why it matters.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you your production by Heart Radio, and today
we are once again so happy to be joined by
the wonderful, the outstanding Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for having me so excited to be back.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Before we started recording, we were reminiscing about our local malls.
And now I have like mall or Mall Madness. It's
like nostalgia overload, looks.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
We actually Annie bought me that game because it was
one of my childhood games, Mall Madness, and we've.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Talked about we have to play this game.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I realized I do not remember I'll play. When we
opened it, I was like, wait, what we have to
buy things? I know that, but how do you buy things?
And sometimes you can use cat and sometimes you get declined.
I don't remember. Bridget.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
You should come down. We'll have a game night.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yes, I'll bring dream Phone. That was my game, so
you have dream Home.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I have a blind date because any purchase that we
need to do that the mom. Okay, come down, sweep.
I have a Sweet Balley High game and a Babysitters game.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Come on. I'm very much evening of my dreams.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Listen, I just have to brag, Bridget I won our
dated game twice.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, we played a blind date together and I was like,
I don't know what's happening, but she ended up winning.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is it a game of strategy or like skill or
sort of like luck?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Wait, Samantha, no strategy. I realized that this guy didn't
like football, so maybe he would be into this character.
I think they should update it so you can have
queer characters.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
That's my I bet they have an update. Have we?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
How we locked by that, We talked about all of
the old games that were very gendered and the ones
that we remembered, but likes things like mal Madness really
popped up. My brother actually really enjoyed that game too,
but he wouldn't admit it. But every time he see
me pull it out and I would play by myself, Yes,
I was that kid. Uh, he would ask to join me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Sometimes there's something to be said about the games that
were coming out at that time that had like the
very specific technology that could be used for nothing else.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, yeah, like dream phone, like the I'm going far
back into the recesses of my memory here, so might
not be totally right, but it came with like a
clunky plastic phone, yes, that you would put to your
ear and it would be like he's not wearing a
hat and you would figure out like whoo, who had
a crush on you based on like what this phone
would tell you.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I think the brand girls talk who did that? The
date one as well as truth or dare like that
was their brand. They also had like magazines, I believe,
but yeah, they they made sure to catalyze on only
their games.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh man, memory a real like gendered media empire.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Was it was?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
But you know that is that conversation we've had repeatedly,
like all the industries that if they specifically go after
women most of the times or young girls, they know
as a moneymaker. If we talked about that, I was
like with games, if we actually talked about that with
magazines too.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, so that's actually a perfect segue into what I
want to talk about. And by the way, like I
didn't even connect this, but I was a voracious reader
of magazine, any kind of girl magazine in the nineties
I was getting I got all of them. I also
loved a good catalog. I still have Delia's catalogs, and
(03:49):
I thumbed through like it was a real like time
to be a girl who liked to consume media. And
something that I find really interesting is the way that
today those same like media spaces can really be used
to expose women to ideology that you might not even
like on the face, really recognize. We talked a little
(04:11):
bit about this in the episode that you and I
all did with about Candice on how she is so
good at using like a political conversations about celebrity to
really radicalize women. And in that same vein we have
to talk about this magazine called EV Magazine. I think
(04:31):
you have you all, what's what's your familiarity with EV?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Right? So when I saw this was coming to our conversations,
at first I was like, wait, why does this look familiar?
And then I realized in our ten to twenty part
episode of Religious Trauma and Women that we actually used
some of their publication and it was one of those
as I was like, because I was not familiar when
(04:56):
I first pulled up into this article because we were
talking about you knowcurity, culture and sexuality and women and
all of these things within Christianity, especially Western Christianity, and
it was this whole like bed it was twisting the
narrative a little bit about like, you know, people being
too sexualized has really really gone away from us and
(05:16):
made it so over the top that is no longer
enjoyable or da da da. And at first you're like, yeah,
this could make sense, and then as I read more
and more like wait, who is this publication and it's
Evy and I went through it, I was like, oh, oh,
this is oh wow. They really have dug deep in
this whole like relevance culture within Christianity to bring out
(05:38):
something that doesn't feel like like it's preaching on you,
but it has an agenda. And I was like, wow,
So we were familiar because in that same like of course,
we wanted to talk about that conversation. So I had
to give a caveat to our listeners and be like, hey,
so this publication is specifically very Christian oriented and it's
published by very conservative peace people, and they don't you
(06:01):
don't know that until much later into reading things in here.
So that's how I was like, Okay, so we used
them before. They're an interesting publication.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, and what you just described is really part and
parcel of the experience of reading ev online. You know,
you might be like, oh, well, this is this is
a reasonable take, like oh, I agree with that, and
then you're.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Like, wait a minute, this is actually I'm not so sure.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Let's take a look at like who is behind this
publication and they're what they're about. So this whole conversation
comes off the heels of a really media profile with
the founder of ev magazine in the New York Times.
So a lot of what I'm going to be talking
about comes from that piece by Katie j and Baker.
If you've not seen ev, evie is a I guess
(06:46):
a women's media outlet. If you have seen their content
on the internet, you probably think of it as a
publication that focuses on pop culture wellness and relationships for
a female audience. But it has the distinct conservative perspective
that Samantha, as you rightly clocked, might not be so
obvious at first glance.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And this is a problem.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I'll get sort of more into why, I'm sure in
this conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yes, and this was something we were Smith and I
were just discussing about how there's all these like back
doors into getting radicalized, like content that you think, oh,
cyoga content and then it's got this other thing. It's
like lures you in. So it's important to look into Okay,
what what is the agenda? Who is behind it? So
(07:38):
can you tell us Bridget a little bit more about
those things.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So Evie was founded by a husband wife duo, thirty
three year old Brittany Hugo Boom with her husband Gabriel.
They describe it as a kind of anti Cosmo magazine.
They said they want to be the one stop shop
for femininity. That's from Brittany Hugo Boom, who is the
public face of the business.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
How the story of how.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Ev came to be in the world as a kind
of a familiar one for anybody who has ever sharted
a magazine or wanted to, you know, publish something. Brittany
said that she was a model for brands like Adidas,
and during that time she loved fashion and she loved
pop culture magazines like l This was in the twenty tens,
and that was, you know, as somebody who was a
voracious reader of women's media, Like it was just a
(08:26):
particular time for women's media, especially online. You had sites
like Jess Bell and The Cut that were these explicitly
feminist spaces that also did a lot of coverage on
like pop culture, women's health, and politics. So like the
women's media ecosystem at that time really did a good
job of blending feminism with pop culture and politics. But
(08:47):
Britney really felt overlooked by this kind of coverage. She
said that she had a hard time finding positive coverage
in this in this media climate about things like traditional marriage.
And I will pause there and say, like, I don't
want to discount Britney's experience. I feel like in the
twenty tens, I read a lot of content about motherhood
(09:10):
and marriage. Like I don't know if we were coming
up in the same media ecosystem. I will just say,
like my personal experiences that I do think there's a
lot of coverage about marriage out there. I don't think
that that's like a third rail topic that is not
being discussed in the culture. But that's what Brittany says anyway.
So thus the idea for EV magazine was born. A
(09:33):
stylish publication rooted in celebrating quote femininity. This is from
the New York Times.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Quote.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It will be as escapist and aspirational as any other
mainstream women's magazine except Evie covers girls who would not
be politicians in power suits, but the type of women
who might compete in beauty pageants. Two weeks after giving
birth to their eighth child, which their most recent cover girl,
Utah influencer Hannah Nielman aka Ballerina Farm actually did. The
(10:01):
magazine's name is a riff. I'm a first woman in
the Bible quote Eve screwed the world, Hugo Boom said,
and this is a new Eve who will save the world.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So if you're talking some like pretty deep.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Religious vibes on that one, that you would be right.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I I am not, okay. So I figured out finally
where that where we used it, and it was actually
for our women in magazine. We were talking about that
earlier about how how how I'd mentioned like gender things
such as women's magazines really made a lot of money
and realizing after they started like the Housewife magazine, they
jumped into young girl magazines and teaching them how to
(10:41):
be wives and partners and such. But even magazine was
in that conversation because they do they talk about the
whole level of like, have we over sexualized girls so
much that we are causing young girls to have complexes
in not being sexual enough like all of these things,
which was like, you know, sometimes we do that conversation
about having balance in this And then again, like I said,
(11:04):
I was like, wait, this sounds like a great idea,
and then you start looking at the ads and then
you start reading more into it, and the ads were
like return to femininity, and I was like, oh, okay,
which sounds like the whole level of like we're going
to correct the evils of women by making you real feminine.
But when we say feminine we mean submissive. But it
(11:26):
is something that we have to credit them that they're
making they understand what makes money.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
When I read that New York Times profile, I was
really struck by how savvy they were, how media savvy
they were, how smart they were, Like in terms of
business decisions, fair right on the money. I don't happen
to like or agree with the ideology they push, but
in terms of like do they have the potential to
make a.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Lot of money, I think the answer is yes.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And Sam, you really cock something that it's even difficult
to really parse. But I think that one of the
reasons why they found some success is that they do
speak to issues that are like they like they kind
of have a point in some ways, right, Like it
is a totally valid conversation to say, like, oh, well,
(12:12):
you know, in a climate where women are told that
it's good to be sex positive and like it's good
to like, you know, embrace your sexuality, which is all great,
what does what does that do to like younger women
and girls? Is it an impacting them in a negative way?
These are great questions to ask, and I'm happy that
people are asking them, And like the kind of work
(12:33):
that you all do here on sminty Is is a
great example of that.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But the way that ev takes this like reasonable.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Conversation and then like completely goes to the extreme with it.
And that's why you should really be getting involved in
like purity culture, and that's why your real value as
a woman is about like you know, who you give
yourself to. Like, like it almost kind of swings back
around this incredibly rigid under standing of women and girls
(13:02):
and so the way that they're able to really occupy
that space of like, well, this is a reasonable question,
but then take it so far afield that you're like.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Well that is not a reasonable conclusion.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I think it's savvy that they did hone in on Hey,
I know, I know we can be like feminism is
bad and here's why. Like they also did that where
they're like, Okay, by being feminists, what you're saying is
you're anti woman, which then it's just like a whole
(13:39):
mind honestly.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, some of the positions that are advocated for in
ev are just like very extreme when it comes to
women and girls, right, Like, you know, things.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Like women shouldn't it's not it's not good for women
to be working.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Things like that, things that are like anybody would look
at that and be like, well, that is a very
extreme perspective. This is what dislikes Glossy Poppy magazine is
advocating for right and it's just like a very very
conservative and traditional perspective on gender to the point of being,
in my opinion extreme. Hears a little bit from the piece,
(14:17):
they say Evie sees themselves as an opposition to what
they've called modern feminism. Femininity does not mean feminism, which
Hugo Boom doesn't define as equal rights, but as a
self hating movement that is anti family and anti male,
one that shames women who choose conventional roles despite running
two companies. She's particularly critical of what she calls girl
(14:39):
boss feminism. Her interpretation of that term, which went from
broadly celebrated to roundly dismissed in the twenty tens, is
that it encourages women to be just like men to
succeed in corporate fields. Such messaging, she says, has made
women anxious, lonely, and unfulfilled. Instead, she believes faith's family
and love, not casual sex, careerism or ideological activist the
(15:00):
supply the greatest satisfaction. So exactly what you just said, Annie, Like,
it's these attitudes that say that they are meant to
celebrate women, but then what they're actually the actual conclusion
is incredibly anti women, right like, And notice how they
put that, you know, ideological activism. No, no, no, that's not
(15:21):
going to make women happy. Like okay, so I shouldn't
advocate for things I believe.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And got it. I mean, you can just see how
quickly this turns into anti trans narrative. Not fear of
being erasing women, which is a whole kind of laughable thing.
(15:47):
Is like feminism is in itself, is like embracing women,
like being acknowledged as women as a person as well
as trans women are women, so they're being women.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
So how is that?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Like there's so many like this level of like almost irony,
but that it works. And I don't know because the
few pieces, like I said, I read, they're very like
subtle about it. They don't want to come out full
force of showing that they are very very conservative because
they are trying to bring in all those leaders kind
of that same level of like when we talk about
(16:21):
yoga and crunching life turning into being conservative as well
as like the Chadwife, because the initial idea is this aesthetic,
which this magazine has that esthetic totally.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
And I mean this is a little bit of a
non sequitor, but I personally have to be real careful
because like I am someone who cares a lot about nutrition, right,
Like I am right now trying to you know, up
my physical health through nutrition and exercise. I when you
are like searching Instagram or TikTok for that kind of content,
(16:57):
the way algorithms are like, oh you like nutrition, huh, well,
how would you like some? And then it's just extremist rhetoric,
extremist rhetoric, extremist rhetoric. So like I have to be
really careful because like I do care about nutrition, and
it definitely these algorithms clocked it if like that is
an interest of yours. We need to be surfacing you
(17:18):
up ever increasing extreme content and like next thing, you know,
it's like and then certainly you're anti vacts and then
certainly you're anti trans It's like, whoa, I'm just trying to,
you know, get more protein in my diet and.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Relax, right, I just want to like be healthy.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I don't know what would just happened.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I don't need you to tell me that all these chemicals,
which are just nutrients are killing me. What's happening exactly.
I think they really landed on something with these pages, though,
that they are able to use what we kind of
always have seen, Like the magazines in general have always
(17:56):
been about teaching girls to be better somehow, or that
you're not good enough if you're not if you want
to hit these goals, this is what you need to do.
And EV's like that perfect layout for that.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, And I think that especially, you know, it doesn't
surprise me that the founder of EV really sees herself
as in opposition to like the girl boss era of
the twenty tens, and I think was really serving women,
women like myself, who.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Were looking for something and.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
They and I think this kind of girl boss feminism
filled that gap and tried to be like, well, is
what you're looking for a corner office and lots of money,
because like here's.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You could have that.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And I this is where I have to say, like
I kind of agree with Hugo Woman a little bit.
I think that like in the twenty tens, feminism and
the conversation around women and like our liberation really got
co opted by this kind of lean in girl boss vibe,
where wealthy white women were really given the mic and
they used that mic could tell us that like liberation
(19:00):
was having a corner office, kicking butt at work, having
the money to pay someone else to watch your kids
while you slay in the boardroom, blah blah blah blah blah,
and that was really empty. And I think ten years later,
I would argue that we are still reeling and feeling
the fallout from how empty of a promise of liberation
(19:20):
that ended up being. But I think nothing has really
stepped in to fill that gap. And so then you
have media outlets like Evie responding to this actual need
in a marginalized community, a community of women saying like, okay, well,
kicking butt at work did not really lead to liberation,
so what will you know. There is a truism about
extremist content that like they are so good and identifying
(19:44):
existing actual gaps that people need filled and then filling
those gaps with their ideological content.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
It's so funny that when you read and see this
level of cyclical actions like the you've been told so hard,
it kind of is that layer of like us not
looking at what society has done to us in general,
and telling us the only way you can succeed is
you have to give one hundred and fifty percent of
yourself to this. And if you don't fail, your failure
(20:14):
is on you because you didn't try hard enough. But
you can't be called successful until you get these markers.
And these markers are the standard by society and capitalism.
So this is what it is. And if you are successful,
either you're going to be penalized in one way or another,
being told that you are greedy or over the top
or two ambitious, or you're going to be penalized because
(20:36):
we're you're going to fail in this moment and saying
that you doing these things has made you obnoxious and
impossible be around, Like it's such a context, but it's
the setup of society in that level. But at the
same time, as you were saying, like grifters and those alike,
social media have realized, hmm, we need to come back
around because people are starting to really get frustrated because
(20:57):
they can't hit that mark and they're exhausted.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, and I in that I completely agree with everything
that you've just said. And in that climate, I can
understand why a publication like EV telling women like, listen,
aren't you exhausted? Just check out of this whole thing altogether,
Like just get married, leave your job, have kids, let
him work, let him figure it all out, and you
(21:21):
just rich reat from public life like that is Ultimately
what I think that EVE is telling an entire generation
of women is that you should only.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Exist in the domestic.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
And I don't want to discount the fact that there's
real power in the domestic for women like that, that
there is power in that, no shame in that at all.
But I think that what they're saying is like women
don't belong in workplaces, women don't belong in boardrooms, women
don't belong in civic and public life, and that's.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Simply not true. And so I think that.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Eve is setting up this alternative of like, instead of
all of those things that exhaust us as women, why
not embrace these have a soft life.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Like I'm sure you've seen.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
That kind of content all over your TikTok, right, And
I think google Boom says this pretty much explicitly in
this piece. She says, I think more women want a
soft life, a beautiful life, than feeling all this pressure
to do all these things. And I can't help but
really see that as in opposition to the reality that
you just laid out, Sam that like, yeah, it does.
(22:24):
It is hard to deal with all of these pressures
to you know, be ambitious but not too ambitious, make
money but not too much money.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Work.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
But then it's a lot I like, I'm I really
deeply do understand why this kind of attitude and message
is very enticing, especially right now in a time of
like uncertainty and chaos and rising costs and things like that.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Oh, and you actually pulled out something that I was
trying to look into for a Monday many I don't
have enough information, but the whole like the soft life
transitioning into red pill and manisphere content and what that looks.
I was like, Oh, there it is, but I like,
there's not. We're still on the cusp of understanding it.
Like people are recognizing that as a side, Like this
(23:09):
is that same like trail that happened again with the
crunchy lifestyle slash natural lifestyle slash yoga lifestyle into red
pill content. That soft life is that same level. If
you start watching who is to pulling it out and
who is talking about the most, You're like, oh, but
it's such an interesting level because it does offer you
(23:31):
something like is it the dream for me to not
have to work at all and worry about things and
sit and watch k dramas all day and maybe go
out to do some zumba and yoga? Yeah, have maybe
someone cooked for me instead of me cooking myself all
the nasty foods that I'm like, I'm just gonna snack today,
Like that level of like comfort of like this ideal
(23:52):
that used to be the way, but which is not
true at all. Because again, when we have a conversation
about like the good old days when the men women
got to stay at home and women being like, yeah,
I'd rather be at home too, if everything was equal.
But that's not the case. And as you said before,
like people who are in the domestic life, who are
stay at home moms, it's a hard job.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
It's hard. That's not a soft life. That's like, have
you ever been.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Around toddlers, people who are raising toddlers and not getting
a break from it because they don't do any wage
earning work outside of the house. They're not living a
soft life.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
No we God forbid they have any kind of medical
needs or if they have.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Like school needs.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
You have to be at all these activities constantly, and
you have to show up to do like act volunteering
there what dear God.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
So this is that is exactly That is exactly my
main beef with Evy, Right, they are selling women a lie,
a fantasy where we're in retreating from public life and
just like existing in the domestic is this soft, easy
moneyed fantasy the kind of life that women and should
be after.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
But as you said, one staying at home as a.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Companion, they sometimes and it's not soft and glamorous at all,
even like the people who perform trad wife on Instagram
probably like like, you never see those women cleaning toilets
or cleaning baby puke off of their shirt, which is
sometimes the reality of staying at home. But in addition
to that, not working, not making or managing your own money,
(25:25):
not participating in civic and public life, is not a
recipe for safety and security. It is incredibly risky to
the people that do this. The data is incredibly clear
that when women stop working, whether they have a kid
or they're a caretaker for somebody and they leave the workforce,
when they re enter the workforce, they are going to
make a lot less.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So if and when they.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Do go back to work, the data is super clear
they're going to be making less right. And so if
you don't work or never work, and you just depend
on your partner for everything, what happens if your partner
passes away, what happens if you if your partner becomes
disabled or sickke and they can't work. There are so
many ways that this life is incredibly risky and insecure.
(26:06):
And the content would have you believe like, oh, this
is going to be soft and.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Glamorous and lovely.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I wouldn't even have a problem with this kind of
content so much if it told women the truth, if
it was like, hey, don't work, but also put away
a little money for yourself, or don't work, but make
sure that you keep an eye on your finances and
understand them in case something happens. Like if they were
more realistic and honest about the life that they are selling,
I wouldn't even have a big problem with them. But
(26:31):
they are not doing that. They're selling a very enticing
but dangerous lie.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yes, And as we've been mentioning throughout, they're doing it
in a way that at first you don't realize where
you're like, oh, yeah, I can relate to this. Yeah,
But then you start to think about it, like, okay, wait,
what what did I just read?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah? This is from that New York Times piece.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
At first glance, evis nonpartisan, publishing content about daily topics
such as award winning red carpets.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And styling skinny genes.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
But readers who click past hot girl health trends and
Adam Brody appreciation posts will find articles that promote positions
that are friend even within conservative circles. Criticisms of no
salt divorce, and in vitro fertilization for example, package and
a fun and approachable format. A typical Evy headline Amy
from Love is Blind is right to be hesitant about
(27:26):
birth control. Also they're like super they're super sussa about
birth control.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
We'll talk more about that in a minute.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But yeah, and so this is actually part of a
pretty concerning trend. Media spaces that at first glance seem
a political are actually very political. That is becoming much
more common online media matters. That an analysis that really
showed how right leaning spaces dominate the online ecosystem with
content that appears a political at first.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
The analysis was based on.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Three hundred and twenty online shows with a right leaning
or left leading ideological bent. They found that right leaning
shows dominate the online ecosystem with substantially larger audiences on
both politics and news shows and supposedly non political shows
that they determined often platformed ideological content or guests.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And here's the kicker.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
The analysis, which looked entirely at shows with an ideological bent,
found over a third self identify as non political, even
though seventy two percent of those shows were determined to
be right leaning. Instead, these shows describe themselves as comedy, entertainment, sports,
or put themselves in supposedly other non political categories. So basically,
(28:37):
these online spaces that are incredibly influential get to be like, oh,
we're not political, we're not political, we're just talking about celebrity,
gossip and entertainment. But actually they're incredibly political in specifically
seventy two percent of these cases right leaning ideological bents.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes. And one of those things that really scares me
about that in this whole conversation is like evy going
back to the name being like women were wrong and
are the source of all evil. Like when I was
a kid, I heard that like Bible story and I
believed it, and so like I feel like it's it's
(29:16):
leaning into a lot of stuff many of us internalized
growing up of this is the natural way of things, right,
this is women stay home, And they're they're kind of
selling like the let's get back to the natural way
and it'll be easier, it'll be nicer for you. When
(29:37):
all this stuff was like built, it was societally made,
but they're selling it as like no, we're going against
the natural order and they're doing it through look at
the celebrity pop culture story.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, and they're also that also makes sense as to
why they also sell milkmaide style dresses. They also were like,
you know what traditional women might want to do, spend
two hundred dollars on a like frilly dairy dress that
the Cut describes as designed in the French countryside. It's
said to be inspired by the quote hardworking dairy maids
(30:18):
of the seventeenth century Europe and as handmade with quote
luxurious organic cotton and one hundred percent feminine energy. So
it's like, yeah, it's very much like tied up in
this kind of quote natural feminine. Honestly, the second that
I hear in any person or online place say something
like oh this has like the divine feminine, I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Bull.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Like as soon as I hear that, I'm like, oh
really Okay.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
In the back of my head, I'm like, so child
labor is what you're talking about. That's the amount energy
where they get SI paid two cents an hour.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Sweet.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Nothing says luxurious feminine energy like sane labor practices.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
That's what I've always wanted. They get that from us anyway,
So stay at home moms who don't get paid it
is like the same life.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
I guess that's the feminine energy.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
So in addition to all of this, more problematically, they
also have a fertility app. So you're always telling you
how they're really not cool with birth control.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
They have a fertility app called twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
The app is backed by tech billionaire and like Mega
Trump thunder Peter til I had to say, like, I
simply do not advocate for anyone using apps like this,
just in general, but especially not one backed by somebody
like Teal. I could do a whole episode. This is
where I will talk all day. I'll just say google him.
Uh he is like us, Like he's like if mister
(31:57):
Burns was a real person and also gay, Like that's how.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I would describe him. And there's so much to stay there.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
But yeah, less he was still better and like he
had morals. Les Luthor had morals compared to him.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, he is not He's a not only is he
a bad dude, he's also bad in some like ways
that if I talked about them here, you would be
like that sounds like something out of a comic book,
but it's real. Yeah. So he's one of the fund
one of the funders of their fertility app. They grew
interested in the women's fertility app space because many women.
(32:34):
Hugo Boom said, uh or that she knew we're having
trouble getting pregnant, and she said that she wanted to
develop a product that would quote empower women to understand
our bodies. Through some fortuitous networking, they ended up having
a meeting with Peter Teal and they asked him to
invest in a wellness app based on the typical twenty
eighth day menstruation cycle.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
And Teal was like, is no one else doing this?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And it was like, no, no one else and he
was like, Okay, well sounds like a good idea. A
spokesperson for TIL confirmed that he invested two million dollars
in the app and they raised three point two million
dollars in total. The app pushes a message that hormonal
birth control is bad for you, Goodbye toxicity. One advertisement
read for the birth control detox supplements it sells through
(33:18):
the app. I'm gonna say on my tech podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
There are no girls on the Internet.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I work with the producer who has a lot of
experience directly writing and reviewing privacy policies for digital health app.
So I asked him to take a look at twenty
eighth privacy policy.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And it wasn't great. Here's a go rundown of what
he told me.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
He said the privacy policy doesn't emphasize going out of
their way to.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Protect users privacy.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Their section on third party tracking basically says that third
parties will have access to your personal data, but disavows
any responsibility for what those third parties do with that
personal data, so doesn't fill them with confidence. They put
a lot of responsibility on the end user. For example,
you can set your browser to refuse all or some
browser cookies, or alert you and cookies.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Are being sent.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
He says, if they sincerely wanted to respect users right
to privacy rather than capture the value of their data
while disavowing any risk, twenty eight would describe strong, proactive
steps that they're taking to protect users personal data. Instead,
this privacy policy is all about mitigating their risk by
shifting it on to unspecified third parties and by shifting
(34:25):
it onto the user themselves. So, especially in a climate
where people are being criminalized for information like this, I
would not recommend anybody trust any of their sensitive intimate
data to an app without a very robust privacy policy
in place. I especially would not recommend that anybody give
(34:45):
that data to somebody that's connected to Peter Teel who
is connected to Donald Trump, Like that is just not
something I would recommend.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
No Smindy signs off on that. So that's concerning. We've
got a lot of concerning things we've gone over. But
just to bring the point home, Bridget, what is what
(35:15):
is the big deal with EV and why is it
so problematic?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah? I mean, I think it's very problematic because listen,
there is nothing wrong with like online content that speaks
to all different kinds of women, all different kinds of
women's experiences and perspectives.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
To me, the whole point.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Of being a feminist is that it allows for women
to choose paths and perspectives that work for them.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
However, EV I find problematic because it is designed to
sell that lie I was talking about earlier, that lie
that makes women not being in the public and civic
sphere look glossy and glamorous, which isn't just wrong. It
can be dangerous, It can be hurtful. And even though
that is dangerous, it's also very enticing. Very I can
(36:02):
understand why that's appealing, especially in a climate right now
where everything.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Is confusing, everything is chaotic.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I can understand the desire for women to be like,
I just want my soft life at home. From that
piece quote, even critics of evy acknowledged the appeal of
its messaging. It's a perfectly pretty gateway drug to ideologies
which exist to protect the privilege and further disenfranchise the marginalized.
That's from Sarah Peterson, the author of the book Mo Influenced.
(36:28):
And I would say something that makes it even more
concerning to me is that when something is happening, and
it's happening in a space that has sort of been
relegated to women people, there's not really a lot of
eyes on it. There's an automatic assumption that it's like
just a fluffy, poppy space and what happens there doesn't
really matter to anybody, or is not of any consequence
to anybody. It's And so I think that because the
(36:52):
kind of people who care about extremism and media and
all of that might not be looking at a space
like ev online too hard, precisely because it speaks to women.
That means that EVE can advocate for positions that even
even conservatives would say are extreme and not really have
a lot of people pushing.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Back right, And so I think it's a really really.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Effective way of potentially radicalizing women into a pretty extreme ideology.
So we absolutely need to be paying attention to what
is happening in these online spaces. And probably my biggest
personal beef is that she's lying to us.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
She is lying to women.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
She has a very a very belittling attitude about women,
and that comes through so clearly in this piece.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
So the founder that I've been talking.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
About, Brittany Hugo Boom, she runs a media and tech
company that she says gets half a million eyeballs across
social media, while also saying, well also telling you other
women that, oh, you don't have we don't have the
aptitude to do exactly what it is that she is
doing successfully and making money from. When asked about women
(38:01):
running businesses and the piece, she said quote, I think
when most women try to do that, they fail, then
they feel upset about it when it's not really in
their nature. This is how she feels about women, And like,
I know that to be a lie.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
The reason why I know it to be a lie.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Is because she's doing it so like she knows it's
a lie too. She is lying to you to make
a buck, and that is ultimately my big beef with
this publication.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
I think the conversation is always kind of funny. It's
that whole level of when marginalized communities have to compete
with each other and so they're gonna do everything they
can to get out their competition, instead of realizing that
the supremacy of men and white men are the actual competition.
And she's like, yeah, don't do this because you're not
going to be as good as I am. Obviously because
(38:49):
I'm white, I can't run a business. I'm white, I'm Christian,
and I got a Christian husband.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
He knows well, Like it's really.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Fascinating because the again, when we had that conversation about
women in magazines, the influence of magazines is deep, is deep,
and it runs for years and years and years and years.
When we talk about a good housewife, we talked about
southern living like that those are core memories for me,
specifically about my mother and then from my mother's generation
(39:19):
that to them was the perfect life. So kind of
again that cyclical point of being like we need to
go back to the Southern living standard of housekeeping, which
means that women stay home and that is their full achievement,
is how they maintain their home. And it's interesting because
EVI is kind of bringing that back and understanding how
(39:40):
to indoctrinate young women, just like we've talked about young
men and podcasts. This is one of those forms of
understanding that, Okay, in order to radicalize young women, we're
going to do this, and we're going to do this
in the way of like reminding them of the good
old days that they don't know anything about. They have
a fantasy of whether it's watching Little House on the
(40:00):
Prairie or hearing about Little House on the Prairie, whatever
what not, and we're going to use that to tell
them they're going to fail, so why not try it
this way?
Speaker 3 (40:08):
And you could see why that would be a really
compelling story.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Like like ing.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Again, like I have to be at somebody who a
lot of my I mean, I'm not a tradwife, but
I have a lot of treadwife interests and hobbies Like
I like preserving things, I like cooking from scratch, I
like gardening, I like all of that.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Like I can understand.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I just really see the ways that, especially right now,
we are selling women this very enticing lie that if
they actually buy, like buy, that it is incredibly dangerous.
Like there was a whole trend of like real treadwives,
women who really like left their left the working world
and got married and had kids and then like you know,
(40:52):
really relied on their their spouse for everything, talking about
how damaging it was for them and their children, like
there are real steaks women do this. And so I
don't think there's nothing wrong with being a stay at
home mom, a stay at home parent. Absolutely nothing wrong
with that, but we should not be glamorizing that without
also telling the truth about the reality of what that
(41:13):
looks like and the ways that can put you at
risk and what you should be doing to mitigate those.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Risks, right especially when we know right now lawmakers are
really trying to turn back that clock in that level
of taking rights away from women, making sure they can't vote,
taking their financial abilities as well, Like we're seeing that
is happening right now as they're trying to introduce this
intossentate to in order to go back to that, in
(41:41):
order to take away rights from women. And when we
were like Okay, cool. Some women obvious like well, like
they're like this this could be self life.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I mean we have to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
I have seen this, like threads of this attitude picking
up steam online with like younger and younger women. There's
that whole trend of like young girls wearing shirts that
are like, oh too pretty to work and things like that,
Like that might seem cute, but really, like really take
a step back and think, like, what is it that
we're advocating for. Are we advocating for systems that are
(42:14):
actually going to protect like like put us at risk
or protect us? Like I think that we, you know,
we we rightly talk a lot about the radicalization of
men and boys, we should also be talking about the
radicalization of women and girls through online content, because yeah,
I just think that we're setting up a generation of
women and girls to really put themselves at risk and
(42:37):
may not maybe not even realize the ways in which
they're doing that.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yes, absolutely, and that's something Samantha and I have been
talking about a lot lately. So as always, Richie, every
time you come on, we're like, we have a million
other things where you need to talk about. So thank
you so much. For taking the time and bringing these
topics to us. We really appreciate it. Where can the
(43:01):
good listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
You can listen to my podcast. There are no our
girls on the internet.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
New season is dropping on May fourteenth, so please check
it out. Yeah, they can follow me on Instagram at
bridget Marie and DC Yes.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
And can't wait can't wait to do this again? Listeners
go check Bridget out on the podcast Excited for the
new season on social media or on other episodes of
Stuff We Never Told You and Yes. If you would
like to contact us you can. You can email us
a hello, a stuff Wenever Told You dot com. You
can find us on Blue skyte Mom Stuff podcast or
on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff We Never Told You
for also on YouTube. We have te piplet store and
(43:36):
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always start at superroducer Christina, executive
producer My and a contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks
to you for listening stuff on over told you this
prediction of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,
you can check out the I Heart Radio ap Apple
podcast or where we listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you your production by Heart Radio, and today
we are once again so happy to be joined by
the wonderful, the outstanding Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for having me so excited to be back.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Before we started recording, we were reminiscing about our local malls.
And now I have like mall or Mall Madness. It's
like nostalgia overload, looks.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
We actually Annie bought me that game because it was
one of my childhood games, Mall Madness, and we've.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Talked about we have to play this game.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I realized I do not remember I'll play. When we
opened it, I was like, wait, what we have to
buy things? I know that, but how do you buy things?
And sometimes you can use cat and sometimes you get declined.
I don't remember. Bridget.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
You should come down. We'll have a game night.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yes, I'll bring dream Phone. That was my game, so
you have dream Home.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I have a blind date because any purchase that we
need to do that the mom. Okay, come down, sweep.
I have a Sweet Balley High game and a Babysitters game.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Come on. I'm very much evening of my dreams.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Listen, I just have to brag, Bridget I won our
dated game twice.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, we played a blind date together and I was like,
I don't know what's happening, but she ended up winning.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is it a game of strategy or like skill or
sort of like luck?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Wait, Samantha, no strategy. I realized that this guy didn't
like football, so maybe he would be into this character.
I think they should update it so you can have
queer characters.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
That's my I bet they have an update. Have we?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
How we locked by that, We talked about all of
the old games that were very gendered and the ones
that we remembered, but likes things like mal Madness really
popped up. My brother actually really enjoyed that game too,
but he wouldn't admit it. But every time he see
me pull it out and I would play by myself, Yes,
I was that kid. Uh, he would ask to join me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Sometimes there's something to be said about the games that
were coming out at that time that had like the
very specific technology that could be used for nothing else.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, yeah, like dream phone, like the I'm going far
back into the recesses of my memory here, so might
not be totally right, but it came with like a
clunky plastic phone, yes, that you would put to your
ear and it would be like he's not wearing a
hat and you would figure out like whoo, who had
a crush on you based on like what this phone
would tell you.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I think the brand girls talk who did that? The
date one as well as truth or dare like that
was their brand. They also had like magazines, I believe,
but yeah, they they made sure to catalyze on only
their games.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh man, memory a real like gendered media empire.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Was it was?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
But you know that is that conversation we've had repeatedly,
like all the industries that if they specifically go after
women most of the times or young girls, they know
as a moneymaker. If we talked about that, I was
like with games, if we actually talked about that with
magazines too.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, so that's actually a perfect segue into what I
want to talk about. And by the way, like I
didn't even connect this, but I was a voracious reader
of magazine, any kind of girl magazine in the nineties
I was getting I got all of them. I also
loved a good catalog. I still have Delia's catalogs, and
(03:49):
I thumbed through like it was a real like time
to be a girl who liked to consume media. And
something that I find really interesting is the way that
today those same like media spaces can really be used
to expose women to ideology that you might not even
like on the face, really recognize. We talked a little
(04:11):
bit about this in the episode that you and I
all did with about Candice on how she is so
good at using like a political conversations about celebrity to
really radicalize women. And in that same vein we have
to talk about this magazine called EV Magazine. I think
(04:31):
you have you all, what's what's your familiarity with EV?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Right? So when I saw this was coming to our conversations,
at first I was like, wait, why does this look familiar?
And then I realized in our ten to twenty part
episode of Religious Trauma and Women that we actually used
some of their publication and it was one of those
as I was like, because I was not familiar when
(04:56):
I first pulled up into this article because we were
talking about you knowcurity, culture and sexuality and women and
all of these things within Christianity, especially Western Christianity, and
it was this whole like bed it was twisting the
narrative a little bit about like, you know, people being
too sexualized has really really gone away from us and
(05:16):
made it so over the top that is no longer
enjoyable or da da da. And at first you're like, yeah,
this could make sense, and then as I read more
and more like wait, who is this publication and it's
Evy and I went through it, I was like, oh, oh,
this is oh wow. They really have dug deep in
this whole like relevance culture within Christianity to bring out
(05:38):
something that doesn't feel like like it's preaching on you,
but it has an agenda. And I was like, wow,
So we were familiar because in that same like of course,
we wanted to talk about that conversation. So I had
to give a caveat to our listeners and be like, hey,
so this publication is specifically very Christian oriented and it's
published by very conservative peace people, and they don't you
(06:01):
don't know that until much later into reading things in here.
So that's how I was like, Okay, so we used
them before. They're an interesting publication.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, and what you just described is really part and
parcel of the experience of reading ev online. You know,
you might be like, oh, well, this is this is
a reasonable take, like oh, I agree with that, and
then you're.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Like, wait a minute, this is actually I'm not so sure.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Let's take a look at like who is behind this
publication and they're what they're about. So this whole conversation
comes off the heels of a really media profile with
the founder of ev magazine in the New York Times.
So a lot of what I'm going to be talking
about comes from that piece by Katie j and Baker.
If you've not seen ev, evie is a I guess
(06:46):
a women's media outlet. If you have seen their content
on the internet, you probably think of it as a
publication that focuses on pop culture wellness and relationships for
a female audience. But it has the distinct conservative perspective
that Samantha, as you rightly clocked, might not be so
obvious at first glance.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And this is a problem.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I'll get sort of more into why, I'm sure in
this conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yes, and this was something we were Smith and I
were just discussing about how there's all these like back
doors into getting radicalized, like content that you think, oh,
cyoga content and then it's got this other thing. It's
like lures you in. So it's important to look into Okay,
what what is the agenda? Who is behind it? So
(07:38):
can you tell us Bridget a little bit more about
those things.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So Evie was founded by a husband wife duo, thirty
three year old Brittany Hugo Boom with her husband Gabriel.
They describe it as a kind of anti Cosmo magazine.
They said they want to be the one stop shop
for femininity. That's from Brittany Hugo Boom, who is the
public face of the business.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
How the story of how.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Ev came to be in the world as a kind
of a familiar one for anybody who has ever sharted
a magazine or wanted to, you know, publish something. Brittany
said that she was a model for brands like Adidas,
and during that time she loved fashion and she loved
pop culture magazines like l This was in the twenty tens,
and that was, you know, as somebody who was a
voracious reader of women's media, Like it was just a
(08:26):
particular time for women's media, especially online. You had sites
like Jess Bell and The Cut that were these explicitly
feminist spaces that also did a lot of coverage on
like pop culture, women's health, and politics. So like the
women's media ecosystem at that time really did a good
job of blending feminism with pop culture and politics. But
(08:47):
Britney really felt overlooked by this kind of coverage. She
said that she had a hard time finding positive coverage
in this in this media climate about things like traditional marriage.
And I will pause there and say, like, I don't
want to discount Britney's experience. I feel like in the
twenty tens, I read a lot of content about motherhood
(09:10):
and marriage. Like I don't know if we were coming
up in the same media ecosystem. I will just say,
like my personal experiences that I do think there's a
lot of coverage about marriage out there. I don't think
that that's like a third rail topic that is not
being discussed in the culture. But that's what Brittany says anyway.
So thus the idea for EV magazine was born. A
(09:33):
stylish publication rooted in celebrating quote femininity. This is from
the New York Times.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Quote.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It will be as escapist and aspirational as any other
mainstream women's magazine except Evie covers girls who would not
be politicians in power suits, but the type of women
who might compete in beauty pageants. Two weeks after giving
birth to their eighth child, which their most recent cover girl,
Utah influencer Hannah Nielman aka Ballerina Farm actually did. The
(10:01):
magazine's name is a riff. I'm a first woman in
the Bible quote Eve screwed the world, Hugo Boom said,
and this is a new Eve who will save the world.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So if you're talking some like pretty deep.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Religious vibes on that one, that you would be right.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I I am not, okay. So I figured out finally
where that where we used it, and it was actually
for our women in magazine. We were talking about that
earlier about how how how I'd mentioned like gender things
such as women's magazines really made a lot of money
and realizing after they started like the Housewife magazine, they
jumped into young girl magazines and teaching them how to
(10:41):
be wives and partners and such. But even magazine was
in that conversation because they do they talk about the
whole level of like, have we over sexualized girls so
much that we are causing young girls to have complexes
in not being sexual enough like all of these things,
which was like, you know, sometimes we do that conversation
about having balance in this And then again, like I said,
(11:04):
I was like, wait, this sounds like a great idea,
and then you start looking at the ads and then
you start reading more into it, and the ads were
like return to femininity, and I was like, oh, okay,
which sounds like the whole level of like we're going
to correct the evils of women by making you real feminine.
But when we say feminine we mean submissive. But it
(11:26):
is something that we have to credit them that they're
making they understand what makes money.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
When I read that New York Times profile, I was
really struck by how savvy they were, how media savvy
they were, how smart they were, Like in terms of
business decisions, fair right on the money. I don't happen
to like or agree with the ideology they push, but
in terms of like do they have the potential to
make a.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Lot of money, I think the answer is yes.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And Sam, you really cock something that it's even difficult
to really parse. But I think that one of the
reasons why they found some success is that they do
speak to issues that are like they like they kind
of have a point in some ways, right, Like it
is a totally valid conversation to say, like, oh, well,
(12:12):
you know, in a climate where women are told that
it's good to be sex positive and like it's good
to like, you know, embrace your sexuality, which is all great,
what does what does that do to like younger women
and girls? Is it an impacting them in a negative way?
These are great questions to ask, and I'm happy that
people are asking them, And like the kind of work
(12:33):
that you all do here on sminty Is is a
great example of that.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But the way that ev takes this like reasonable.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Conversation and then like completely goes to the extreme with it.
And that's why you should really be getting involved in
like purity culture, and that's why your real value as
a woman is about like you know, who you give
yourself to. Like, like it almost kind of swings back
around this incredibly rigid under standing of women and girls
(13:02):
and so the way that they're able to really occupy
that space of like, well, this is a reasonable question,
but then take it so far afield that you're like.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Well that is not a reasonable conclusion.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I think it's savvy that they did hone in on Hey,
I know, I know we can be like feminism is
bad and here's why. Like they also did that where
they're like, Okay, by being feminists, what you're saying is
you're anti woman, which then it's just like a whole
(13:39):
mind honestly.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, some of the positions that are advocated for in
ev are just like very extreme when it comes to
women and girls, right, Like, you know, things.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Like women shouldn't it's not it's not good for women
to be working.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Things like that, things that are like anybody would look
at that and be like, well, that is a very
extreme perspective. This is what dislikes Glossy Poppy magazine is
advocating for right and it's just like a very very
conservative and traditional perspective on gender to the point of being,
in my opinion extreme. Hears a little bit from the piece,
(14:17):
they say Evie sees themselves as an opposition to what
they've called modern feminism. Femininity does not mean feminism, which
Hugo Boom doesn't define as equal rights, but as a
self hating movement that is anti family and anti male,
one that shames women who choose conventional roles despite running
two companies. She's particularly critical of what she calls girl
(14:39):
boss feminism. Her interpretation of that term, which went from
broadly celebrated to roundly dismissed in the twenty tens, is
that it encourages women to be just like men to
succeed in corporate fields. Such messaging, she says, has made
women anxious, lonely, and unfulfilled. Instead, she believes faith's family
and love, not casual sex, careerism or ideological activist the
(15:00):
supply the greatest satisfaction. So exactly what you just said, Annie, Like,
it's these attitudes that say that they are meant to
celebrate women, but then what they're actually the actual conclusion
is incredibly anti women, right like, And notice how they
put that, you know, ideological activism. No, no, no, that's not
(15:21):
going to make women happy. Like okay, so I shouldn't
advocate for things I believe.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And got it. I mean, you can just see how
quickly this turns into anti trans narrative. Not fear of
being erasing women, which is a whole kind of laughable thing.
(15:47):
Is like feminism is in itself, is like embracing women,
like being acknowledged as women as a person as well
as trans women are women, so they're being women.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
So how is that?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Like there's so many like this level of like almost irony,
but that it works. And I don't know because the
few pieces, like I said, I read, they're very like
subtle about it. They don't want to come out full
force of showing that they are very very conservative because
they are trying to bring in all those leaders kind
of that same level of like when we talk about
(16:21):
yoga and crunching life turning into being conservative as well
as like the Chadwife, because the initial idea is this aesthetic,
which this magazine has that esthetic totally.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
And I mean this is a little bit of a
non sequitor, but I personally have to be real careful
because like I am someone who cares a lot about nutrition, right,
Like I am right now trying to you know, up
my physical health through nutrition and exercise. I when you
are like searching Instagram or TikTok for that kind of content,
(16:57):
the way algorithms are like, oh you like nutrition, huh, well,
how would you like some? And then it's just extremist rhetoric,
extremist rhetoric, extremist rhetoric. So like I have to be
really careful because like I do care about nutrition, and
it definitely these algorithms clocked it if like that is
an interest of yours. We need to be surfacing you
(17:18):
up ever increasing extreme content and like next thing, you know,
it's like and then certainly you're anti vacts and then
certainly you're anti trans It's like, whoa, I'm just trying to,
you know, get more protein in my diet and.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Relax, right, I just want to like be healthy.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I don't know what would just happened.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I don't need you to tell me that all these chemicals,
which are just nutrients are killing me. What's happening exactly.
I think they really landed on something with these pages, though,
that they are able to use what we kind of
always have seen, Like the magazines in general have always
(17:56):
been about teaching girls to be better somehow, or that
you're not good enough if you're not if you want
to hit these goals, this is what you need to do.
And EV's like that perfect layout for that.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, And I think that especially, you know, it doesn't
surprise me that the founder of EV really sees herself
as in opposition to like the girl boss era of
the twenty tens, and I think was really serving women,
women like myself, who.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Were looking for something and.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
They and I think this kind of girl boss feminism
filled that gap and tried to be like, well, is
what you're looking for a corner office and lots of money,
because like here's.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You could have that.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And I this is where I have to say, like
I kind of agree with Hugo Woman a little bit.
I think that like in the twenty tens, feminism and
the conversation around women and like our liberation really got
co opted by this kind of lean in girl boss vibe,
where wealthy white women were really given the mic and
they used that mic could tell us that like liberation
(19:00):
was having a corner office, kicking butt at work, having
the money to pay someone else to watch your kids
while you slay in the boardroom, blah blah blah blah blah,
and that was really empty. And I think ten years later,
I would argue that we are still reeling and feeling
the fallout from how empty of a promise of liberation
(19:20):
that ended up being. But I think nothing has really
stepped in to fill that gap. And so then you
have media outlets like Evie responding to this actual need
in a marginalized community, a community of women saying like, okay, well,
kicking butt at work did not really lead to liberation,
so what will you know. There is a truism about
extremist content that like they are so good and identifying
(19:44):
existing actual gaps that people need filled and then filling
those gaps with their ideological content.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
It's so funny that when you read and see this
level of cyclical actions like the you've been told so hard,
it kind of is that layer of like us not
looking at what society has done to us in general,
and telling us the only way you can succeed is
you have to give one hundred and fifty percent of
yourself to this. And if you don't fail, your failure
(20:14):
is on you because you didn't try hard enough. But
you can't be called successful until you get these markers.
And these markers are the standard by society and capitalism.
So this is what it is. And if you are successful,
either you're going to be penalized in one way or another,
being told that you are greedy or over the top
or two ambitious, or you're going to be penalized because
(20:36):
we're you're going to fail in this moment and saying
that you doing these things has made you obnoxious and
impossible be around, Like it's such a context, but it's
the setup of society in that level. But at the
same time, as you were saying, like grifters and those alike,
social media have realized, hmm, we need to come back
around because people are starting to really get frustrated because
(20:57):
they can't hit that mark and they're exhausted.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, and I in that I completely agree with everything
that you've just said. And in that climate, I can
understand why a publication like EV telling women like, listen,
aren't you exhausted? Just check out of this whole thing altogether,
Like just get married, leave your job, have kids, let
him work, let him figure it all out, and you
(21:21):
just rich reat from public life like that is Ultimately
what I think that EVE is telling an entire generation
of women is that you should only.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Exist in the domestic.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
And I don't want to discount the fact that there's
real power in the domestic for women like that, that
there is power in that, no shame in that at all.
But I think that what they're saying is like women
don't belong in workplaces, women don't belong in boardrooms, women
don't belong in civic and public life, and that's.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Simply not true. And so I think that.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Eve is setting up this alternative of like, instead of
all of those things that exhaust us as women, why
not embrace these have a soft life.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Like I'm sure you've seen.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
That kind of content all over your TikTok, right, And
I think google Boom says this pretty much explicitly in
this piece. She says, I think more women want a
soft life, a beautiful life, than feeling all this pressure
to do all these things. And I can't help but
really see that as in opposition to the reality that
you just laid out, Sam that like, yeah, it does.
(22:24):
It is hard to deal with all of these pressures
to you know, be ambitious but not too ambitious, make
money but not too much money.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Work.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
But then it's a lot I like, I'm I really
deeply do understand why this kind of attitude and message
is very enticing, especially right now in a time of
like uncertainty and chaos and rising costs and things like that.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Oh, and you actually pulled out something that I was
trying to look into for a Monday many I don't
have enough information, but the whole like the soft life
transitioning into red pill and manisphere content and what that looks.
I was like, Oh, there it is, but I like,
there's not. We're still on the cusp of understanding it.
Like people are recognizing that as a side, Like this
(23:09):
is that same like trail that happened again with the
crunchy lifestyle slash natural lifestyle slash yoga lifestyle into red
pill content. That soft life is that same level. If
you start watching who is to pulling it out and
who is talking about the most, You're like, oh, but
it's such an interesting level because it does offer you
(23:31):
something like is it the dream for me to not
have to work at all and worry about things and
sit and watch k dramas all day and maybe go
out to do some zumba and yoga? Yeah, have maybe
someone cooked for me instead of me cooking myself all
the nasty foods that I'm like, I'm just gonna snack today,
Like that level of like comfort of like this ideal
(23:52):
that used to be the way, but which is not
true at all. Because again, when we have a conversation
about like the good old days when the men women
got to stay at home and women being like, yeah,
I'd rather be at home too, if everything was equal.
But that's not the case. And as you said before,
like people who are in the domestic life, who are
stay at home moms, it's a hard job.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
It's hard. That's not a soft life. That's like, have
you ever been.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Around toddlers, people who are raising toddlers and not getting
a break from it because they don't do any wage
earning work outside of the house. They're not living a
soft life.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
No we God forbid they have any kind of medical
needs or if they have.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Like school needs.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
You have to be at all these activities constantly, and
you have to show up to do like act volunteering
there what dear God.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
So this is that is exactly That is exactly my
main beef with Evy, Right, they are selling women a lie,
a fantasy where we're in retreating from public life and
just like existing in the domestic is this soft, easy
moneyed fantasy the kind of life that women and should
be after.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
But as you said, one staying at home as a.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Companion, they sometimes and it's not soft and glamorous at all,
even like the people who perform trad wife on Instagram
probably like like, you never see those women cleaning toilets
or cleaning baby puke off of their shirt, which is
sometimes the reality of staying at home. But in addition
to that, not working, not making or managing your own money,
(25:25):
not participating in civic and public life, is not a
recipe for safety and security. It is incredibly risky to
the people that do this. The data is incredibly clear
that when women stop working, whether they have a kid
or they're a caretaker for somebody and they leave the workforce,
when they re enter the workforce, they are going to
make a lot less.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So if and when they.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Do go back to work, the data is super clear
they're going to be making less right. And so if
you don't work or never work, and you just depend
on your partner for everything, what happens if your partner
passes away, what happens if you if your partner becomes
disabled or sickke and they can't work. There are so
many ways that this life is incredibly risky and insecure.
(26:06):
And the content would have you believe like, oh, this
is going to be soft and.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Glamorous and lovely.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I wouldn't even have a problem with this kind of
content so much if it told women the truth, if
it was like, hey, don't work, but also put away
a little money for yourself, or don't work, but make
sure that you keep an eye on your finances and
understand them in case something happens. Like if they were
more realistic and honest about the life that they are selling,
I wouldn't even have a big problem with them. But
(26:31):
they are not doing that. They're selling a very enticing
but dangerous lie.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yes, And as we've been mentioning throughout, they're doing it
in a way that at first you don't realize where
you're like, oh, yeah, I can relate to this. Yeah,
But then you start to think about it, like, okay, wait,
what what did I just read?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah? This is from that New York Times piece.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
At first glance, evis nonpartisan, publishing content about daily topics
such as award winning red carpets.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And styling skinny genes.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
But readers who click past hot girl health trends and
Adam Brody appreciation posts will find articles that promote positions
that are friend even within conservative circles. Criticisms of no
salt divorce, and in vitro fertilization for example, package and
a fun and approachable format. A typical Evy headline Amy
from Love is Blind is right to be hesitant about
(27:26):
birth control. Also they're like super they're super sussa about
birth control.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
We'll talk more about that in a minute.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But yeah, and so this is actually part of a
pretty concerning trend. Media spaces that at first glance seem
a political are actually very political. That is becoming much
more common online media matters. That an analysis that really
showed how right leaning spaces dominate the online ecosystem with
content that appears a political at first.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
The analysis was based on.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Three hundred and twenty online shows with a right leaning
or left leading ideological bent. They found that right leaning
shows dominate the online ecosystem with substantially larger audiences on
both politics and news shows and supposedly non political shows
that they determined often platformed ideological content or guests.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And here's the kicker.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
The analysis, which looked entirely at shows with an ideological bent,
found over a third self identify as non political, even
though seventy two percent of those shows were determined to
be right leaning. Instead, these shows describe themselves as comedy, entertainment, sports,
or put themselves in supposedly other non political categories. So basically,
(28:37):
these online spaces that are incredibly influential get to be like, oh,
we're not political, we're not political, we're just talking about celebrity,
gossip and entertainment. But actually they're incredibly political in specifically
seventy two percent of these cases right leaning ideological bents.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes. And one of those things that really scares me
about that in this whole conversation is like evy going
back to the name being like women were wrong and
are the source of all evil. Like when I was
a kid, I heard that like Bible story and I
believed it, and so like I feel like it's it's
(29:16):
leaning into a lot of stuff many of us internalized
growing up of this is the natural way of things, right,
this is women stay home, And they're they're kind of
selling like the let's get back to the natural way
and it'll be easier, it'll be nicer for you. When
(29:37):
all this stuff was like built, it was societally made,
but they're selling it as like no, we're going against
the natural order and they're doing it through look at
the celebrity pop culture story.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, and they're also that also makes sense as to
why they also sell milkmaide style dresses. They also were like,
you know what traditional women might want to do, spend
two hundred dollars on a like frilly dairy dress that
the Cut describes as designed in the French countryside. It's
said to be inspired by the quote hardworking dairy maids
(30:18):
of the seventeenth century Europe and as handmade with quote
luxurious organic cotton and one hundred percent feminine energy. So
it's like, yeah, it's very much like tied up in
this kind of quote natural feminine. Honestly, the second that
I hear in any person or online place say something
like oh this has like the divine feminine, I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Bull.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Like as soon as I hear that, I'm like, oh
really Okay.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
In the back of my head, I'm like, so child
labor is what you're talking about. That's the amount energy
where they get SI paid two cents an hour.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Sweet.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Nothing says luxurious feminine energy like sane labor practices.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
That's what I've always wanted. They get that from us anyway,
So stay at home moms who don't get paid it
is like the same life.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
I guess that's the feminine energy.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
So in addition to all of this, more problematically, they
also have a fertility app. So you're always telling you
how they're really not cool with birth control.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
They have a fertility app called twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
The app is backed by tech billionaire and like Mega
Trump thunder Peter til I had to say, like, I
simply do not advocate for anyone using apps like this,
just in general, but especially not one backed by somebody
like Teal. I could do a whole episode. This is
where I will talk all day. I'll just say google him.
Uh he is like us, Like he's like if mister
(31:57):
Burns was a real person and also gay, Like that's how.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I would describe him. And there's so much to stay there.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
But yeah, less he was still better and like he
had morals. Les Luthor had morals compared to him.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, he is not He's a not only is he
a bad dude, he's also bad in some like ways
that if I talked about them here, you would be
like that sounds like something out of a comic book,
but it's real. Yeah. So he's one of the fund
one of the funders of their fertility app. They grew
interested in the women's fertility app space because many women.
(32:34):
Hugo Boom said, uh or that she knew we're having
trouble getting pregnant, and she said that she wanted to
develop a product that would quote empower women to understand
our bodies. Through some fortuitous networking, they ended up having
a meeting with Peter Teal and they asked him to
invest in a wellness app based on the typical twenty
eighth day menstruation cycle.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
And Teal was like, is no one else doing this?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And it was like, no, no one else and he
was like, Okay, well sounds like a good idea. A
spokesperson for TIL confirmed that he invested two million dollars
in the app and they raised three point two million
dollars in total. The app pushes a message that hormonal
birth control is bad for you, Goodbye toxicity. One advertisement
read for the birth control detox supplements it sells through
(33:18):
the app. I'm gonna say on my tech podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
There are no girls on the Internet.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I work with the producer who has a lot of
experience directly writing and reviewing privacy policies for digital health app.
So I asked him to take a look at twenty
eighth privacy policy.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And it wasn't great. Here's a go rundown of what
he told me.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
He said the privacy policy doesn't emphasize going out of
their way to.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Protect users privacy.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Their section on third party tracking basically says that third
parties will have access to your personal data, but disavows
any responsibility for what those third parties do with that
personal data, so doesn't fill them with confidence. They put
a lot of responsibility on the end user. For example,
you can set your browser to refuse all or some
browser cookies, or alert you and cookies.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Are being sent.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
He says, if they sincerely wanted to respect users right
to privacy rather than capture the value of their data
while disavowing any risk, twenty eight would describe strong, proactive
steps that they're taking to protect users personal data. Instead,
this privacy policy is all about mitigating their risk by
shifting it on to unspecified third parties and by shifting
(34:25):
it onto the user themselves. So, especially in a climate
where people are being criminalized for information like this, I
would not recommend anybody trust any of their sensitive intimate
data to an app without a very robust privacy policy
in place. I especially would not recommend that anybody give
(34:45):
that data to somebody that's connected to Peter Teel who
is connected to Donald Trump, Like that is just not
something I would recommend.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
No Smindy signs off on that. So that's concerning. We've
got a lot of concerning things we've gone over. But
just to bring the point home, Bridget, what is what
(35:15):
is the big deal with EV and why is it
so problematic?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah? I mean, I think it's very problematic because listen,
there is nothing wrong with like online content that speaks
to all different kinds of women, all different kinds of
women's experiences and perspectives.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
To me, the whole point.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Of being a feminist is that it allows for women
to choose paths and perspectives that work for them.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
However, EV I find problematic because it is designed to
sell that lie I was talking about earlier, that lie
that makes women not being in the public and civic
sphere look glossy and glamorous, which isn't just wrong. It
can be dangerous, It can be hurtful. And even though
that is dangerous, it's also very enticing. Very I can
(36:02):
understand why that's appealing, especially in a climate right now
where everything.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Is confusing, everything is chaotic.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I can understand the desire for women to be like,
I just want my soft life at home. From that
piece quote, even critics of evy acknowledged the appeal of
its messaging. It's a perfectly pretty gateway drug to ideologies
which exist to protect the privilege and further disenfranchise the marginalized.
That's from Sarah Peterson, the author of the book Mo Influenced.
(36:28):
And I would say something that makes it even more
concerning to me is that when something is happening, and
it's happening in a space that has sort of been
relegated to women people, there's not really a lot of
eyes on it. There's an automatic assumption that it's like
just a fluffy, poppy space and what happens there doesn't
really matter to anybody, or is not of any consequence
to anybody. It's And so I think that because the
(36:52):
kind of people who care about extremism and media and
all of that might not be looking at a space
like ev online too hard, precisely because it speaks to women.
That means that EVE can advocate for positions that even
even conservatives would say are extreme and not really have
a lot of people pushing.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Back right, And so I think it's a really really.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Effective way of potentially radicalizing women into a pretty extreme ideology.
So we absolutely need to be paying attention to what
is happening in these online spaces. And probably my biggest
personal beef is that she's lying to us.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
She is lying to women.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
She has a very a very belittling attitude about women,
and that comes through so clearly in this piece.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
So the founder that I've been talking.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
About, Brittany Hugo Boom, she runs a media and tech
company that she says gets half a million eyeballs across
social media, while also saying, well also telling you other
women that, oh, you don't have we don't have the
aptitude to do exactly what it is that she is
doing successfully and making money from. When asked about women
(38:01):
running businesses and the piece, she said quote, I think
when most women try to do that, they fail, then
they feel upset about it when it's not really in
their nature. This is how she feels about women, And like,
I know that to be a lie.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
The reason why I know it to be a lie.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Is because she's doing it so like she knows it's
a lie too. She is lying to you to make
a buck, and that is ultimately my big beef with
this publication.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
I think the conversation is always kind of funny. It's
that whole level of when marginalized communities have to compete
with each other and so they're gonna do everything they
can to get out their competition, instead of realizing that
the supremacy of men and white men are the actual competition.
And she's like, yeah, don't do this because you're not
going to be as good as I am. Obviously because
(38:49):
I'm white, I can't run a business. I'm white, I'm Christian,
and I got a Christian husband.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
He knows well, Like it's really.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Fascinating because the again, when we had that conversation about
women in magazines, the influence of magazines is deep, is deep,
and it runs for years and years and years and years.
When we talk about a good housewife, we talked about
southern living like that those are core memories for me,
specifically about my mother and then from my mother's generation
(39:19):
that to them was the perfect life. So kind of
again that cyclical point of being like we need to
go back to the Southern living standard of housekeeping, which
means that women stay home and that is their full achievement,
is how they maintain their home. And it's interesting because
EVI is kind of bringing that back and understanding how
(39:40):
to indoctrinate young women, just like we've talked about young
men and podcasts. This is one of those forms of
understanding that, Okay, in order to radicalize young women, we're
going to do this, and we're going to do this
in the way of like reminding them of the good
old days that they don't know anything about. They have
a fantasy of whether it's watching Little House on the
(40:00):
Prairie or hearing about Little House on the Prairie, whatever
what not, and we're going to use that to tell
them they're going to fail, so why not try it
this way?
Speaker 3 (40:08):
And you could see why that would be a really
compelling story.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Like like ing.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Again, like I have to be at somebody who a
lot of my I mean, I'm not a tradwife, but
I have a lot of treadwife interests and hobbies Like
I like preserving things, I like cooking from scratch, I
like gardening, I like all of that.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Like I can understand.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I just really see the ways that, especially right now,
we are selling women this very enticing lie that if
they actually buy, like buy, that it is incredibly dangerous.
Like there was a whole trend of like real treadwives,
women who really like left their left the working world
and got married and had kids and then like you know,
(40:52):
really relied on their their spouse for everything, talking about
how damaging it was for them and their children, like
there are real steaks women do this. And so I
don't think there's nothing wrong with being a stay at
home mom, a stay at home parent. Absolutely nothing wrong
with that, but we should not be glamorizing that without
also telling the truth about the reality of what that
(41:13):
looks like and the ways that can put you at
risk and what you should be doing to mitigate those.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Risks, right especially when we know right now lawmakers are
really trying to turn back that clock in that level
of taking rights away from women, making sure they can't vote,
taking their financial abilities as well, Like we're seeing that
is happening right now as they're trying to introduce this
intossentate to in order to go back to that, in
(41:41):
order to take away rights from women. And when we
were like Okay, cool. Some women obvious like well, like
they're like this this could be self life.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I mean we have to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
I have seen this, like threads of this attitude picking
up steam online with like younger and younger women. There's
that whole trend of like young girls wearing shirts that
are like, oh too pretty to work and things like that,
Like that might seem cute, but really, like really take
a step back and think, like, what is it that
we're advocating for. Are we advocating for systems that are
(42:14):
actually going to protect like like put us at risk
or protect us? Like I think that we, you know,
we we rightly talk a lot about the radicalization of
men and boys, we should also be talking about the
radicalization of women and girls through online content, because yeah,
I just think that we're setting up a generation of
women and girls to really put themselves at risk and
(42:37):
may not maybe not even realize the ways in which
they're doing that.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yes, absolutely, and that's something Samantha and I have been
talking about a lot lately. So as always, Richie, every
time you come on, we're like, we have a million
other things where you need to talk about. So thank
you so much. For taking the time and bringing these
topics to us. We really appreciate it. Where can the
(43:01):
good listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
You can listen to my podcast. There are no our
girls on the internet.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
New season is dropping on May fourteenth, so please check
it out. Yeah, they can follow me on Instagram at
bridget Marie and DC Yes.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
And can't wait can't wait to do this again? Listeners
go check Bridget out on the podcast Excited for the
new season on social media or on other episodes of
Stuff We Never Told You and Yes. If you would
like to contact us you can. You can email us
a hello, a stuff Wenever Told You dot com. You
can find us on Blue skyte Mom Stuff podcast or
on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff We Never Told You
for also on YouTube. We have te piplet store and
(43:36):
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always start at superroducer Christina, executive
producer My and a contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks
to you for listening stuff on over told you this
prediction of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,
you can check out the I Heart Radio ap Apple
podcast or where we listen to your favorite shows,
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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