June 4, 2025 • 54 mins
Bridget Todd shines some light on the trial of Sean “Diddy” Combs, the common tropes used against women that are playing out online in terms of it and the ways that power structures allowed this to happen.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I've never told you protection by her radio and today
we are so happy to once again be joined by
the fabulous, the fantastic Bridgete Todd. Welcome Bridget, Thanks for
(00:27):
having me.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Always a pleasure to hang out with.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
You, gals, Yes, it always is, and we know you're
so busy, so we're so happy we can make this
work even when the topics at hand are not so great.
But before we get into that loaded question, as always,
how have you been, Brigitte?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh, things are okay.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's pride here in d C, DC celebrating the fiftieth
anniversary of Pride in DC. So it's world pride being
celebrated here in d C. So it's been a more
even with looming large figure who also lives in DC,
we're still trying to away to have a good time
here or something.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Things have been a little cheery. How are you to
doing it?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think we're I'm doing I'm doing well. I'm going
to find a doctor, Bridget And this is news for me.
I haven't been to the doctor forever, but I'm going
to go. I'm going to take that Steph and also
I've just been having fun with.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Friends, So what has been keeping you from going to
the doctor. Just we don't have to talk about.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
The way you started that felt like we had an
intervention with you or so NI any time, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
No, no, no, I just I think a lot of people,
unfortunately can relate. I haven't had a good experience going
to the doctor, and so I and I also wait
and till I'm like absolutely convinced maybe I might actually
be on death door before I'm going. But I've actually
(02:10):
had like two panic attacks recently that I thought I
was on death stoor and I still didn't go, And
I was like, this is probably a sign. This is
you should really you should really go and check and
make sure these are actually big texts. But yeah, you know,
steps baby steps ahead.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
And I have to say, like, nothing makes me feel
more like I am being the adult, grown woman I am,
like when I take care of the medical thing I've
been avoiding for a long time and I finally make
that appointment.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So just think, just focus on that.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
How good you're gonna feel once you actually book the appointment,
talk to a medical professional. You know you're gonna be
treating yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Right, Yes, I Thank you, Brigitte. This has been a
long time coming to be on this, but uh, I'm
going to do it, and I'm going to take it
as a positive. I'm doing it.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Hm, it's self.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Care Annie, Yeah, hold you accountable on this.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I like that this is like an intervention again. Yeah,
I think, Uh, for me and for doctors, it's always
the fear that I'm gonna go and they're gonna tell
me there's nothing wrong with me and I'm making things
up in my head.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
It's one of those things that it's like, doesn't really
make sense, but at the same time, but you know
the history of doctors and what they say to women
in general. You know how that goes. We know how
that goes.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
But yeah, for myself, is that actually nice day. It's
been a nice day for a few days. The rain
has stopped in Atlanta for a little bit. It's gotten cool.
I have a little mini garden, Bridget I have a
little mini garden, and I've gotten at least five cherry tomatoes.
Oh my gosh, very proud of this.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
How it's so when having your own garden, it'll be
so much work and so much money and so much effort.
And you're like, oh, I got one blueberry.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I was like, I held onto it, took little pictures.
It was like, it is the cutest, most perfect tomato ever.
I will say it was a starter plant from Costco,
not a sponsor. Yeah, I love Costco. But I'm still
proud of it. I still feel like we did it
even though it was already kind of there before we
bought it.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, I was a tomato.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Like those tomato plants don't want tom fool you like,
they're actually lay pretty labor intensive in terms of kind
of foods that you can grow on a small garden.
So you actually started with a high bar. So the
fact that you got any kind of thing that you
could eat at all, it's really you know, you should
feel good about that five.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So you know, I count that as a win over here.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I think that is a win. But this is probably
one of the most depressing transitions I've ever made, speaking
of not believing women. We do have a topic today
that is full of that kind of those kind of
tropes that we hear a lot, and it's a lot
(05:09):
to go through. So bridget what are we talking about today?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I have to give a pretty big trigger warning because
it is the Sean Diddy Comb's trial. As folks probably know,
he was arrested back in twenty twenty four, because currently
the trial is ongoing. As soon as he was arrested,
as soon as I saw the news, I thought, oh,
this is about to be a storm of like disinformation,
half truth, is online, gendered tropes, all the things that
(05:38):
we know kind of go hand in hand with this
kind of thing. And I've actually been following how this
has been playing out since his arrest, and so now
that the trial is happening, I feel like it's a
great time to sort of get into all of it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yes, and all of it encompasses quite a lot, and
I think for some people people that can feel kind
of like easy to dismiss because he feels kind of,
at least to me, like that was a long time ago,
that guy. But actually no, and actually it does matter
(06:13):
a lot. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh? Absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So it seems like every day there's a new celebrity
wrongdoing story out there in the news. But I would
argue that this trial is more than this one celebrity
did something bad for a few reasons. One that it's
a colmb's is a very very powerful figure. Again, if
you're a younger listener, you might think of him as
a little bit of a throwback, but he is definitely
(06:37):
more than a musician. He is one of the most
powerful figures in Hollywood. His influence reaches far beyond entertainment.
From media. He used to have a TV He used
to be the owner of a TV news channel called Revolt,
which is still around, but they have My understanding is
that that Diddy is no longer at the helm that
had a pretty important partnership with NBC's Universal and Comcast.
He's very influential, involved in politics, used to have a
(06:59):
very sort of well regarded voting initiative, very involved in tech.
Fun fact is that he was when Elon Musk decided
to take over Twitter. Shawn Comes is one of his
early investors, and I was reading a book about this,
and early on some of the black leadership was like, ooh,
we're a little bit worried about how Elon Musk might
(07:19):
moderate racial slurs on the platform. And to kind of
quell concerns about this, he was like.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Elon Musk was like, oh, well, do you know Diddy
Puff and I are personal friends. We text a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Kind of like doing the I have a black friend,
and that black friend is Shawn Combs, right, and so
I share that to share Shawn Colmes was this is
this incredibly influential person who sits at the crossroads of
all these different types of power that goes so beyond music.
I've been rewatching old episodes of the Real Housewives of
New York, like first season, second season, third season. The
(07:54):
amount of times that Seawn Holmes comes up on this
show about sort of well to do New York white
ladies who are all wealthy when they go to the Hamptons,
they're like, oh, you're going to the diddy party later. Like,
he is such a figure in so many different circles,
and that's clearly intentional, right, Like, that's clearly a way
for him to sort of become this powerful figure that
(08:16):
no one would ever believe these horrible things about because
he hobnobs with such you know, powerful wealthy people. And
so I would argue that this story with Combs, it's
really not just about celebrity scandals. It's really about power,
how it's held, how it's protected, and how social media
can really be used to shape the narrative and also
(08:37):
reinforce really harmful attitudes and tropes that silence victims and
then shield the elite from accountability when they do something wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, and I have been reading about these statistics around
bots that are used in cases like this and just
building up this social media anger and presenting usually a
very misogynistic viewpoint to get people to believe like, oh,
(09:06):
this is the truth and this is what everyone thinks,
so you should think that as well. And this is
not the first time we've seen this in big celebrity cases.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And it's interesting that you mentioned bots because there's been
so much reporting an analysis after the fact with the
Johnny Depp amber Herd trial about the way that specifically
bots were used in an effort to shape public opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I would argue very successfully.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But again, that was another example of like a highly
coordinated PR campaign with this big digital component that was
really about sort of turning the public opinion against amber
Heard that really relied on these misogynistic tropes and really
kind of gave a platform to people who will take
any excuse to tear down a woman in public. I mean,
(09:52):
I'll be curious to see how the trial with Sean
Combs plays out.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I feel like the ways that we're.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Seeing this trial play out online, I would actually argue
that like most people have gleaned that Sean Combs has
done something wrong, Like it's not taking the way that
I think it used to take when people would sort
of have these online smear campaigns.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
It's interesting because cases like these have always had been rumors,
you know, like the truth is kind of insinuated from jump,
but you always hear like the rumors at hand. There
are things that have been mentioned. As a person who
was in social work, one of the things that we
would talk about often is when we see campaigns or
when we see trials that go into civil lawsuits and
(10:46):
everybody that like whole beginning jump of people being like
defensive and being like, oh, they're just trying to get money.
And I remember that being a thing for Cassie as well,
Like when she was spart coming out, She's like, why
didn't they go the police? You know that aged old
like really bad take on that ideal that it was
something really bad, he would have been arrested by now, right,
And it feels interesting that this type of case has
(11:09):
come into such a way that people are just having
to really question that conversation about like, oh, it's not
just rumors.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, there have definitely been rumors about this for
a long time. And to your point, Sam, like, according
to the government, the reason why shn Colms has been
able to avoid arrest for this long is precisely what
he's being charged with. That he used his influence and
his businesses and his power and his money to silence
victims and essentially engage in a sex trafficking, fraud and
(11:38):
corrosion ring. So the things that he is being charged
with these being charged with civil charges from mostly women
and some men, who are accusing him of a wide
range of sexual crimes, and five criminal counts, one of racketeering,
one of conspiracy, two counts of sex trafficking by force,
fraud or coercion, and two counts of transportation to engage
in prostitution. So those five criminal charges are what the
(12:01):
bulk of this trial is about. So basically, the government
says that Sean Combs has been using its business enterprise
to conduct a criminal sex trafficking and kidnapping ring, and
that he was using money and power to intimidate victims
and to cover up these crimes.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
For a really long time. One thing that I just
want to like.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Say super clearly is that if there was one narrative
I've seen sort of being pushed in this trial is
that he is being accused of being freaky, Like, oh,
he's being like the reason why he's being on trial
right now is because of freaky sex parties, party gatherings
that he would call quote freak offs. But I want
to be very clear, he is not facing charges for
(12:41):
being freaky or having freaky sex or freaky parties, and
not for nothing. Everybody knows that real freaky people create
a culture of consent, so that wouldn't even.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Be what this is. He is being accused of being.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
The ring leader of this like massive criminal enterprise that
involved subjecting people to a pattern of physical and sexual abuse,
according to federal prosecutors, and so investigators are saying that
over a span of years, Combs would apply his victims
with drugs and even resort to violence and intimidation to
force them into these days long sex sessions. He did
(13:13):
not act alone, according to federal prosecutors. However, no one
else has been criminally charged in this case. Yet, according
to the government, Combs allegedly had assistants, managers, and security
staff who would make sure that women and male sex
workers were present at these hotel days long sex sessions,
and that the hotels would be staged and stocked with
(13:33):
supplies like lubricant and baby oil. Which do we remember
another man accused of gross behavior who also allegedly had
a thing for baby oil.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Where baby oi oil not go?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yes, unfortunately, Hugh Heckner.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I mean, I'll take this opportunity to remind folks that
baby oial should not be used as a sexon lubricant.
And if you are using baby oil as a sexual lubricant,
it's no good for anybody. And it just it just
I find it so curious that both of these men
accused of sexual misconduct and sexual crimes apparently both had
(14:15):
a thing for baby oil.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I don't know what's going on there.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Somebody can write an interesting essay about what's going on there,
But don't you find that curious?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
I wonder if it's like to me, I'm like, it
just seems like misinformation. They're inability to actually research what
isn't isn't effective and just go on this lorics look
at this like they accidentally sent stumbled upon it my mind,
like they are just like, oh, baby oil, Yeah, yeah, Okay,
this does it. And just for anybody who does use that,
(14:45):
go see a doctor.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean I use oil cleanser on my face when
I when I'm wearing face paint or sunscreen.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I don't want to think about what that does.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Internally, right, Like, no, not a good thing to be
used for sexual lubricant.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Oh, I feel like the best it's a sad spectrum
because I think the best answer would be misinformation and
the worst answer would be knowing that it causes pain
and or just some infantilizing. With the baby oil part.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's also my thinking that there must be some kind
of you know, association with baby oil, and like, I
don't know, something is going on there.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Something is going on there, and it had been happening,
as Samantha said, there had been rumors, there have been
people kind of talking about what was going on here,
but it took some people speaking up being vocal about
it before we're finally getting this trial. So can you
(15:51):
talk about that?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So, the person who was sort of the main voice
at the center of a lot of what's going on
is R and B Singer.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Cassie Ventura.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Was in a personal and professional relationship with Sean Combs
for over a decade, and her civil lawsuit was the
watershed suit that preceded all the other charges. In November
twenty twenty three, Cassie filed a federal lawsuit against Comb's
alleging years of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. Her lawsuit
also named Combs's businesses so bad Boy Entertainment, bad Boy Records,
(16:21):
Epic Records, and Comb's Enterprises. After only a day so
she came forward with these charges. It was like hours later.
They settled these charges out of court, but her willingness
to come forward really opened the floodgates for a dozen
other lawsuits against Combs and so Cassie's lawsuit alleged that
this was just the beginning of Combs's coercion and abuse, which.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
She says I took over her life.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
You know, Sam, you were talking about kind of rumors
and whispers. I'm a music person, I'm an R and
B person, and I remember when Cassie first came on
the scene, there was a little bit of a feeling
of you know, she had this one great debut album.
Then there was a very long time until she released
another album, and there was a question of like, oh,
it seems strange that her career didn't take off more
(17:07):
considering that she's in a personal and professional partnership. Was
one of the most important names in music. People will
be like, what's going on with her career? Well, this
lawsuit really gives us a little bit of a glimpse
into what might have been going on, because she says
that her abuse by Combs essentially took over her life.
He would force her to take illicit drugs and force
her to participate in these days long sex sessions with
(17:31):
male sex workers, where Combs would film her and physically
assault her. The lawsuit said that when he would attack
her physically these this was often witnessed by Combs as
staff like employees of.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Bad Boy Entertainment, and she would scream out.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
You know, there's a very compelling piece of testimony she
gave where she's crying on a plane and she says,
doesn't anybody see this? And nobody intervenes, and so she
says that that's basically what she was up against four.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Years and we don't.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Actually we have to take Cassie's word for it, because
we saw evidence of this with our own eyes. Earlier
this year, CNN published footage of Combs attacking Cassie in
a hotel lobby. Prosecutors alleged that there was a male
sex worker still in their hotel room at the time
of their surveillance video recording. Cassie testified that this video
was shot in a by hotel security.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Footage when she was in the middle of one of
these sessions in their.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Hotel and she was just like, I got to get
out of here and left. And in this video you
see her walk out of a hotel room, hit the
elevator button.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Combs comes into.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
The scene and really attacks her, knocks her down and
drags her back into the room.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's horrifying to watch. So initially, when.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Cassie came forward, Combs was doing exactly Annie what you
were saying, where he said, Oh, she's just lying, she
just wants a pay day, YadA, YadA, YadA. Well, then
this footage came out and he basically would I guess.
I guess they were like, oh, we gotta settle this one.
I can no longer pretend like this didn't happen. The
reason why that footage took so long to become public.
(19:07):
Was that Diddy allegedly paid off hotel security to keep
that footage buried until we saw it on CNN.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
It was really interesting because I remember when Gussie first
came out with that lawsuit and there were so many
people co going and defending Diddy and talking about how
she was just all about the money and why she
doing this now that she's gotten like broke since leaving
him or whatever whatnot. But I too, growing up in
the R and B Era and the loving PDD and
(19:35):
the whole crew, Like remember when she first came out
with her first song and then watched her become his girlfriend,
I guess. And then as I was really huge into
like making of the band, I loved Dannity Kane had
that first album, still remember it really well, and then
saw Dawn with that, I was like, wait a minute,
what's happening? And this was so freshly after j Low
(19:57):
that it just seemed odd. The timing was weird. He
was doing way too much, seemingly, and I remember thinking
Cassie was like, you're actually kind of good. Why aren't
you singing? Oh exactly, You're just now his girlfriend. Like
that was such an odd jump. And also seeing Dawn
because during that time, I remember there was a lot
of drama.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yes, So I also watched all the iterations of Making
the Band and Don Richards.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Of Danny Kin.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So Danny Kane was the girl music group that was
formed in the third iteration of MTV's Making the Band,
which was a show where Diddy would put together a
music group and then if they worked out, they would
get signed to his record label.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And so Don Richards from Danny Kane.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I so before Cassie ever came forward, Don had been
speaking out about what a bad guy did he was,
And I feel like she was really.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Treated like a crazy psycho.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
People would be like, oh, this woman is so difficult,
Like did he gave gave her a chance?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And this is how she repays him?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Like I feel like that's really how people framed her.
And I mean, well, we see who was telling the truth,
because down went from just speaking up about this to
having people tell her that she was crazy or making
it up, to testifying in a federal court during this trial.
So yeah, we see how crazy she was. Like obviously
(21:22):
she wasn't making this up because here we are having
a federal court court case about it.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Aubrey also was painted as a villain, and she was
like at the very beginning and everybody was calling her
the drama queen and why the group failed was because
of Aubrey. But then like as again comes about because
she played They played her as the diva cache, they
played her as the over the top princess and big
(21:46):
villain in this conversation too, And she was the loudest
one before, like especially watching down being on on Sean
Combe's arms. She was like, this is weird, this is
not cool. They did all these things, and it turned
out she was the only one that did not sign
the NDA out of the group. So she was very,
(22:07):
very loud about. She didn't ever accuse, but she was
just like, this is not what you think it is.
And she was really loud about that.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
She put out a thing in People magazine, And to
be clear, she was not subpoenaed or called to testify
in the current trial, but she put out a piece
in People magazine, I think just a couple of days
ago where she said, I have been speaking the truth
about Diddy for twenty years, and you're absolutely right. The
way that she was so easily painted as a delusional
drama queen diva, and it's like, oh, well, we see
(22:37):
who was delusional because one of us is going in
front of a federal court right now and it's not
Aubrey Hodet.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Okay, right right.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
There's so much to be said in this case. It
was again following up the initial part was like they're
all lying, they're just trying to pay. And Dinny was
doing a kind of good job in painting Cassie as
that as well. I remember, like for the first like
second until that video was released, people were like, yeah,
(23:04):
this is another he said, she said, and she's causing
this drama again all these things, and then as it
comes about and that video comes out, everybody's like, oh
never mind, Oh never mind. And then you don't really
know because they did settle that case out of court
and it was so quick and everybody's like, oh, yeah,
she got her pay, she got her pay. We don't
know what, we know, something's gone down. And then trying
(23:27):
to figure out what was in that that was so
even more damning than that one video that There's a
lot to be said about what was in her testimony.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Her testimony has been heartbreaking, some of them, I mean
I and she's not the only person who's testified, has
been a lot of people testifying. But essentially, she says
that she was forced into these drug fueled sexual encounters
with male escorts. That I mean, the things that she
says went on during these events, I mean, I won't
get into all of it here, but it is well,
(23:56):
just call it unpleasant. And that importantly Holmes would film
this and then use those videos as a way to
further extort her into complying. And so her mother, Regina Ventura,
testified that at one point, did he essentially blackmailed her
mom into paying him twenty thousand dollars. Now, mind you
(24:19):
Didny is a very wealthy man. You have Cassie Ventura's
mother being forced to pay him twenty thousand dollars because
he was angry that for a brief while Cassie left
him and started a brief relationship with rapper Kid Cuddy,
and did he a parent allegedly told Cassie Venturer's mother, Regina,
if you do not pay me twenty thousand dollars, I
(24:41):
will release these TAPESA one of the releases.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
He said, was going to be on Christmas Day.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
So Cassie's mom and her husband said they had to
take out a home equity loan to fulfill that payment
to Colmbs because it was the only way they can get.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
The money right.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And so it is so not only was her testimony
completely heartbreaking, you know when it comes to these sort
of gendered tropes that were seeing play out online, the
way that people are responding to what Cassie is saying,
it is also difficult because you know when people say
why didn't she leave, It's like, well, he was extorting
(25:15):
her mom, right, Like we saw a video of her
trying to leave and he physically attacks her and dragged
her back into the room. So when people ask these
questions of like, well, why didn't she leave, it's.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Like I could, I could understand why.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
That would be difficult, Like he physically would not let
her Sam. Cassie was nineteen when they met and Diddy
was thirty seven, so she was a child when they met.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And it's just it breaks my heart that she.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Cross paths with someone who was such a powerful abuser
for so long. Like some of the testimonies she gives
is the way that he impacted her career, that she
would do things and say things just to keep him calm,
because he basically had the power to blow up her life,
her professional life, her family life, and so she talks
(26:07):
about how she basically would say and do anything just
to keep him from doing something erratic, doing something dangerous,
hurting her family. One of the pieces of testimony that
I also found pretty compelling is that the rapper kid
Cutty at one point she briefly left Diddy and started
a brief relationship with him, and he testified that when
this happened, did he broke into his home unwrapped Christmas
(26:30):
gifts so we're under his Christmas tree, and locked his
dog into a bathroom, and then shortly thereafter his car
was firebombed, right, and so he went to Ditty's.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
He believes Diddy did this.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
He went to Diddy's hotel room to talk about it,
and according to this testimony, he said that it was
pretty clear that Diddy was not going to let Cassie
sort of be free and have a relationship with somebody else,
and that essentially they broke off their relationship because Cassie
said it was not safe for them to truck, try
to be with each other, try to do anything because
this was the means that Diddy would go to control
(27:04):
her behavior and prevent her from seeing somebody else. And
so yeah, when people get into this, this this, I mean,
the trompe is really tired.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
As it is. But when people ask like, why didn't.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
She leave, that's a pretty good reason why someone won't leave. Firebombings,
twenty thousand dollars payoffs from your mom putting her house
at collateral for a loan to pay off a millionaire,
Like I can understand why she didn't.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Leave, right, I mean honestly, not that I'm not saying
this is a thing, but like when people are dying
around him, his like peer group, including his ex wife,
including a partner, including several other people. I know these
are all alleged, and there's a lot of rumors about that.
Just that's enough. Even if the whle he said was
(27:49):
do you notice what happens to these people, whether it's
a threat or whether it's just yeah, bad karma or
bad whatever he wants to say, that'd be enough. That'd
be enough to be like, I'll stick around, It's okay.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, I can only imagine how terrifying that would be
and the feeling of, you know, when she briefly was
in a relationship with kid Cutty. She testified that Shan
Colmbs told her that she and kid Cutty were putting
themselves at physical risk by doing this, and he said, specifically,
(28:23):
it won't be at my hands, but you will, like
something bad will happen to you. And you know, diddyou
is someone who does have people close to him that
have met bad means, I'll put it that way, and
so I can understand.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Why this is how she felt.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I mean, that would be really, really terrifying, and so yeah,
it just goes to show that that trope, for so
many reasons, doesn't really apply, and it just flies in
the face of what we know about abuse. You know,
abusers often are using emotional manipulation, they're isolating people, they're
controlling their partners. You also can feel more connected to
(28:59):
your abuse because he's like trauma bonded because you met
him when you were nineteen a child.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Cassie testifies to that.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
She says that a lot of the times that during
their relationship, when he would do this behavior that was
so horrible to her.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It was confusing because.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
You know, they had been in a relationship for over
a decade, so she still felt affection and love for him,
and I can only imagine how confusing that would be.
So this kind of fear of physical violence or other
forms of retribution, we know keeps victims of abuse trapped
in relationships. And yeah, Cassie speaks to the way that
this was a huge motivating factor for.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Her, as we've been speaking to this whole time. Unfortunately,
this is not necessarily new, these tropes, and I think
a lot of women when there's a big trial like this,
(29:55):
we kind of brace ourselves because we know we're gonna
see these things play out. And now that we're seeing
kind of changing technology around bots and AI, perhaps it's
gotten intensified. But you also said some of it it's
a little a little different. So what are some of
(30:16):
these other tropes that we're seeing.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah, well there's a good old fashioned gold digger trope
which has come up quite a bit during this trial.
Combs's lawyer said this in his opening statement, quote, when
you hear from the witnesses who testify here, who will
tell you that they were victimized, and you ask yourself,
what is your motive?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
For many of them, the answer is simple money.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And so he referred to Cassie's civil suit seeking damages
against Combs as a money grab.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
The defense lawyer.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Then asked this question of the jury, quote, how many
millions of reasons is this witness swearing to tell the
truth and nothing but the truth have to lie. But
you know, we've talked about this before. Cassie already settled
her civil suit with Diddy.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
He's settled. Like, she filed that suit by two pm
and by three pm.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They were like, let's just here's here you go. You're right,
let's just not And so first of all, come on, now,
like you wouldn't do You wouldn't do that, You would
not settle so quickly if this was some sort of
a financial extortion situation. And at this point that civil
suit was already settled, So why would she continue to
do this? If this were like all about money? That
(31:25):
civil suit has already been settled. And I guess that's
always the first thing people say when this kind of
thing happens is, oh, it's a money grab. In what
way are all of these people who are testifying making money?
Like one of the people who testifies is Cassie's former
good friend who said that, like, you know, many years ago,
(31:46):
did he attacked her trying to figure out who Cassie
was cheating with. I'm putting cheating in quotes because who
knows what was going on? And she testified that did
he held a wooden coat hanger up to her throat
and was like strength her and that she when she
told Cassie about it, Cassie was like, oh, something big
of a deal, Like you're exaggerating what happened, YadA YadA, YadA,
(32:07):
and it ruined their friendship. She signed it, She signed
an NDA, and she was like, I never spoke to
either of them again.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
She in her testimony, she was like, I just want
to go on with my life. Somebody like that.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
What would she have to gain financially from testifying to
what happened? Right, Like, she has not spoken to either
of these people in.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
A very long time. She signed an NDA. She was
silent for years.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
What will these have financial impetus for somebody to blow
up their life by testifying?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Financially there isn't one.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
There are others who have testified that didn't get anything
and are looking pretty ugly because we know when this
type of trap, especially when there's a lot of abuse
as well as trauma as well as kind of like
the whole Stockholm syndrome. They become a part of the
problem as well, which is a whole different conversation and
like a layered onion that you have to get into
because there could be charges because of this. Of course,
(32:58):
there's probably plea deals for to flying against p Diddy
slash Shawn Combs, but the actuality is like when they
start talking about these are the things I had to
do for him, it doesn't look good, like there's no
reason to do those for themselves.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yes, staf former staffers of Diddy who say, oh yeah,
I remember him attacking Cassie physically her crying out, saying
somebody help me.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
And I just looked the other way.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Who would be paying them to say these things publicly
if they didn't actually happen. Like the people who say this,
I'm so curious for them to finish the thought of
like being paid by who Who is the person who
was like writing the check? So they were doing these
things because they were on staff being paid by Diddy.
Who would be paying them now to speak up about
what they did when these things make them look terrible?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, And I also think it's interesting that Cassie's so young.
When Sean Combs met her, and we were automatically like
framing it in the way, she must have been in
it for the money instead of thinking about like the
opposite side of it. We were like, oh no, she
(34:07):
this like a nineteen year old must have been thinking
about this money though.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Annie, So I have like a perhaps unpopular opinion about this,
and I will stand by and defend. I fully understand
that a nineteen year old and a thirty seven year
old being consentually together is not illegal if it's above
the age of consent. But come on, now, what about
a thirty seven year old man have to be doing?
(34:33):
Like what would a thirty seven year old adult be
doing with a nineteen year old? Like, I don't care
what anybody says. I'm not saying it's against the law,
but I am saying, like if my thirty seven year
old friend was like, hey, meet my new girlfriend. She's nineteen,
I don't have an opinion about that. I fully understand
this is it's not breaking the law. I'm still going
on the record and saying I don't love it, and
(34:54):
then that we should be looking at that thirty seven
year old man like what's going on that you're trying
to start a relationship with a nineteen year old, right?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I mean he kind of proved what he was doing
and it had nothing to do with love or being,
you know, being so head over heels about someone. It
was to show off and show control, which is what
he did. Like I remember clearly at one of the
MTV Awards and her coming out again with Dawn on
Shawn Combs's arms and then being having to be dressed
(35:22):
up in him, like showing them off as again as
if his property and being like, look what I did,
like trying to change her image. I remember her initial
video to when she was in her early twenties and
being established with Shawn Combs, like how her so much
of her change and it was him taking credit as
much as he was taking credit for these bands that
(35:43):
he supposedly created in their images and making sure that people,
including the audience and including all of the crowd, knew
that it was his ownership and that that's what he
was the proudest of. And people took that as a thing.
They really were like, Yeah, yeah, he's the man, because
he's not only this guy, but he can control these
young girls and he can get him. You know, it
(36:04):
was played out and he was very proud of that,
and we see that often in these kind of dynamics
in general.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah, So when this when the charges were first popping up,
people found this old interview with the rapper Young Jack,
who was talking about being out with Cassie and Diddy,
and that Diddy, according to him, jumped up on a
bar during a party in twenty eighteen and said, quote, Yo, Cassie, tomorrow,
I want you to shave the side of your head,
(36:32):
and that Young Jack says that he recalls being shocked
by this request. He turned to Cassie and asked if
she was were they going to go through with it,
and Cassie reportedly responded, well, whatever Sean wants me to do,
I'm going to do. And so as you remember that,
I mean, Cassie is a gorgeous woman. So it kind
of I don't mean it almost weirdly backfired because it
(36:52):
started a trend. And this was like women were wearing
the half shaved head because it was like, oh, Cassie
looks so good, I'll never forget go into a hair
stylist and asking for that, and she was like, honey,
you're no Cassie, but I.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah. She was like, I don't think it's a good
look for you.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I'm not gonna She refused to do it, and so
according to young Jack, Cassie did shave the side of
her head and sent him a picture the next day
to prove it right. And so the reason why he
maybe wanted to be with somebody so young was because
he was looking for somebody moldable that he could control,
and then he could make a show of controlling like that,
(37:28):
like not just controlling her behind closed doors, making a
show of how much control he had over these things
that are so intimate, like the way that black women
wear our hair, Like that's a that's a very intimate
emotional thing, and I can imagine somebody wanting to make
a show out of that. They can control you down
to these things that are so tied to our identities
(37:49):
and who we are, like our hair.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Right, I mean the whole I've got her name. She
was the choreographer for making the band. They got into
a huge fight, oh yeah, and then they had to
cut it real quick. But like it showed his true
side and true characteristics of him being really controlling and
over the top with his anger issues slash control issues.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I'm so glad you brought this up. And I have
to like, I'm a little complicit in this myself, because,
as I said, I watched every season of Making the Band.
There was a time where it was iconic television. And
if you watch that show, you remember that he made
the band walk all the way from Lower Manhattan to
Brooklyn and back to get him a slice of cheesecake
(38:32):
in the middle of the night, which, like, I've made
that walk, it is a long walk, and that when
they brought the cheesecake to him, he didn't even eat it.
And I remember watching this and being like, Wow, he's
really teaching them a lesson.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
This is great TV. It wasn't great TV.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
It was controlling behavior of a power hungry narcissist.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And it's interesting to me.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
The way that these things, looking back on these things now,
they seem so much darker. I mean, obviously I didn't
know what was going on with Diddy then, I had
not heard those allegations.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I was in and You're high.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
But the way that his controlling, over the top behavior
was glamorized and sold back to us as this is
how the industry really is like, these people who want
to be in the music industry need to understand and
get on board.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
But the way that did he wants to do things.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
I cringe thinking about how I consumed that as entertainment
when I was younger.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
All right, and I had small hopes that I could
be a part of a band. Maybe I could be
I could sing, and I can dance and train like that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yes, we that was glamorized to the point where you
they had you watching it, wish wishing you could walk
to Brooklyn for Cheesecakeman, this monster.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I'll do I'll do it, you know.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
With all of this in conversation though, and I've had this,
I've had this specific topic with a lot of different women,
especially when it comes to like domestic violence and uh
intimate violence when we talk about when it comes to
the racial aspect of this as well. I have talked
to several different black women who are so strong talking
about they never wanted to report it, They never wanted
(40:11):
to talk about it because if they did, they would
put one more black man under a system that we
know is going to be unfair from jump, like, there's
no doubt about it. But then on top of because
when you look at the comparison of the white man
versus black men who are going to be severely punished
and who is going to be the scapegoat of all
of everything, Like, there's this level of moment where they're like,
(40:33):
do I really want to do this? Am I a
part of the system if I actually tell the truth
and try to get justice. There's a whole level on that.
And Sean Combs has become like R Kelly too was
one of those like, yeah, you're just doing this because
he's black type of conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Absolutely, and I feel that any time like a famous
man end of sentence, but also famous black men especially
is it is a tough conversation because you know, I
do think in the black community there's this attitude that
we are supposed to protect powerful abusers because they are black.
And I think what they are what folks who are
(41:10):
upholding is what they're really saying is that not that
we want better for all for everybody, everybody dess better. No, No,
what they're actually saying is black men should be able
to abuse people with impunity the same way that powerful
white men do. And that and that is that that
is the future that they want and so like that
feels or looks like progress to them, and that's not
(41:31):
what I want. I want a future where no man
is allowed to do this kind of thing without consequences
and being held accountable. But I think that's what they're
actually saying, right There is a I don't want to
get into a whole thing, but there is a famous
black man who I cannot stand, and I have many
reasons why I can outstand him, but one of the
reasons why I can outstand him is that he has
(41:51):
a whole flew of sexual misconduct allegations in his past
and that nobody ever really brings them up that much.
And when I post about it on social media every
single time, there is at least one and usually more
people in my comments being like, well, Trump get gets
away with it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
You know, they like the Trump president.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
And what they're really saying is like, our guys, black
men should be able to break the law and be
horrible without consequences, just like white men, and that it
is not a future that I want. That it's not
what a quality looks like to me. That is not
what progress looks like to me. And I think it's
interesting that you bring up r Kelly, because it is
a thing that we see, you know, men who are
(42:32):
powerful who are also abusers. Oftentimes they are doing things
that make you think of them in a positive light,
precisely so that they can, you know, create the conditions
where they can keep doing things without accountability.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Right.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
In an episode that we did of my podcast, There
Are No Girls on the Internet, we were covering Epstein,
and one of the things about Epstein was that he
would do these things to ingratiate himself in the upper
echelons of the tech world, like making big donations to
MIT's renowed Media Lab and other respected institutions, to shield
himself from his vast crimes. Right, so Bill Cosby did
(43:09):
the same thing. R Kelly did the same thing, did he?
You know, he was known for this iconic white party
that was like a who's who of a list celebrities.
He donates to all the right causes. He gave a
million dollars to his alma mater, Howard University here in DC.
All of these things that are basically meant to shield
him from being called out. And even his attorney said
this in a statement when when Cassie was first coming
(43:31):
forward with the relegations. His attorney said, Sean did Hey
Combs is a music icon, self made entrepreneur, loving family man,
and proven philanthropists who have spent the last thirty years
building an empire, adoring his children, and working to uplift
the black community. So basically, it's I've done all these
great things for my community.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
How could I ever be an abuser? And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Exactly why they do these things, and so that when
someone comes and says, he did this horrible thing to me,
they can point to this record of you know, philanthropy
and uplifting a community to say that, no, he did it.
That's exactly I mean, it's such an old playbook. It's
exactly what his attorney did.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
It's so gross because it is it's that whole level
of like his good days outweigh his bad days. We
just need to sacrifice some of these people for the
betterment of the community. And that's been a thing everywhere
in the church, even like we look at the amount
of abuse that happens within churches and within you know, priesthoods,
(44:28):
they are so willing to not only do so they
don't look bad, but they also because but they've done
really well and they've done good for the community and
actually not remembering. But these are the underlying issues that
this is who he really is, whether you want to
believe it or not. The abuse and the control is
who he is. He just has a great amount of
money to be able to prove otherwise.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah, I mean we saw.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
It's it's funny that you say this because when he
really when that video of him attacking Cassie from the
hotel surveillance put it came forward, he made one but
before things is really snowballed and it was like, okay,
this is there's nothing you can say.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
He made one of those grainy videos.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
That a celebrity makes where he was like, listen, that
person that you saw in that video, that's not who
I am. And it's like, actually, was who you are?
It wasn't your clone. Okay with you, homie, Like that's you.
You do these things.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We saw what you do. Like, don't try to tell
me that wasn't you. You've grown this and that that's you.
We see who you are. You've shown us we are
who you are.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yes, And it's also interesting bringing up the religious aspect
just in terms of I feel like this whole idea
of younger people. But women in this case can't. They
can't control themselves, and men, grown men can't control themselves
around them, and so really, whose fault is this? This
(45:54):
is like kind of another troupe, like literally the adult man.
But that's something we see online is sort of this
idea of like, oh, but she she was she was
consenting though she kind of wanted this whole thing, or
like she.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Was fast, you know, And yes, I just I guess
that's my sort of overall point is that we have
all of these ready made tropes and excuses that are
so repeatable that really, I mean, they just absolve men
of their own behavior and I'm just so sick of it,
(46:32):
and yeah, it just it has to change. And I
think that it's not surprising to me that we're seeing
all of this kind of stuff play out in court
because did He obviously has hired lawyers to say these things.
I get it, but we don't people don't have to
repeat them on the internet. Right, I'm not gonna begrudge
did He getting the best you know, lawyer that he
(46:53):
can to truck. You know, it isn't until we've been guilty.
Totally get it, But that doesn't mean that we should
be giving credence to these tropes that are so gendered
and so misogynistic that absolve people of their wrongdoing. I
think that's my bigger point is that the way that
these tropes are so easily and often repeated online whenever
there's a high profile case like this, I believe it
(47:14):
trickles down into our everyday lives. And so when someone
who's not an A lister like Cassie is accusing someone
who is not an A lister like Diddy of this
kind of wrongdoing, I think the same way that that
we're poised and primed to hear these tropes like this
play out in a high profile celebrity case, it's going
to happen in these cases that are not high profile
celebrities as well, and so we should really when we
(47:36):
hear them, we should program ourselves to check them and
then push back on them because so often they're just
not true.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yes, yes, so many problems. Well, what's next with the trial?
Speaker 3 (47:52):
So the trial is ongoing, and according to Rolling Stone,
Combs is already working on a pardon from President Trump
if he's convicted. Several long time friends and allies of
Combs have began making connections with Trump's team with the
hopes of laying the groundwork for presidential pardon if Combs
is in fact found guilty on the charges par rolling Stone.
Combs's team is hoping to appeal to Trump by drawing
(48:14):
a comparison between their shared stories two successful businessmen allegedly
targeted by federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New
York with baseless accusations of sexual assault. Combs and Trump
have reportedly maintained a friendly personal relationship for over a decade,
and just recently Trump was asked about this, and he said,
you know, nobody's asked if I'll pardon, did he But
(48:35):
if he doesn't get a fair trial, I'll certainly look
at it.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
So I honestly, you never know, it might work.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Oh, it probably will, Like I I just didn't he already, Yeah,
I remember correctly. There was a segment when he's like
trying to prove that he knows black people. Yes, like
I know buff Daddy.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're friends.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Trump
to have another name to throw out when he's trying
to say all these different black people you know, one
of my favorite quotes, of his favorite quotes of is
when he was like, I have a wonderful relationship with
the Blacks, And I remember thinking, like, that's how you
know you have a bad relationship when you call that,
when you call us the blacks?
Speaker 4 (49:13):
You know, Oh my god, sure am I trying to
kill a lot of them? It's all good. Wow. And
this is the saddest part is I feel like puffs lawyers.
I keep calling him puff because why not is that
this is probably the best route for them going to
(49:35):
get in a pardon.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
I mean, we could do a whole episode about this.
Trump just pardoned to other reality stars the Chris Lies
for tax evasion. I again, I think it's a good play.
I think if I were on Diddy's team and I
was being paid to ensure that he did not face accountability,
(49:57):
I would say, yeah, honestly, the chargest thing. Let's just
let that play out. Let's take it to the top.
President Trump, I think, I mean, I honestly do think
if he is convicted of these charges, I would not
be surprised if Trump actually did pardon him. Because Joe
Exotic from Tiger King has been begging Trump for a pardon.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
He did not get that pardon.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
And I think that the thing is Trump likes the celebrity,
the convicted celebrities who are like project wealth in a
way that.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Sean Kings does. Wealth and influence in power. That's what
he likes, right.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
I think he just pardoned the a sheriff in Virginia,
and his constituents are very pissed about that. They're like, no, yeah,
part is like what you think you were.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Of course he did, like he's a fellon himself. Of
course He's like, oh yeah, criminals people.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
This is my consistuents, these are my people.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
And I think going back to your point earlier about
watching this show and seeing p Diddy at the time
being like, hey, walk into walk this far with cheesecake
and I'm not going to eat it, and we were like, yeah,
I feel like you could make a pretty easy jump
to Trump being on the Apprentice and having that behavior
(51:17):
and being real terrible. And I was being like, but
he knows what he's doing, not me, but you know,
in general people and now look who's president.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
I have long believed that the overlap between the rise
of reality TV fame and the rise.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Of political power of people like Trump.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
That is, I mean, that's there's a thread there.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I guess I'll put it that way. I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yes, well again, we would love to keep talking because
so many other questions come to mind, And I know
you've spoke about this on your own podcast right about
AI and how it's kind of yes contribut to this.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
So if folks want to hear more about the way
that this trial is playing out online, we did a
whole episode of my podcast, There Are No Girls on
the Internet about the intersection of Diddy, conspiracy theories and AI.
Spoiler alert, AI is being used to turbocharge incorrect, inaccurate
information and narratives about this trial. If you have seen
(52:24):
a story online saying that they played a video.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Of prints during the trial, that's not true.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
If you heard if you heard that Ashton Cutcher testified,
that's not true. President Obama, Oprah, that's not true all AI.
Listen to the podcast for more.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
It is. It is truly wild.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
Oh no, it's going to be like a Pizzagate type
of thing.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Yes, oh no, I mean, if you ask the Internet,
every celebrity under the sun somehow is all in the
courtroom testifying, and then no other like, no reputable news
outlet is writing about it.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Right?
Speaker 4 (52:56):
And there are eating children?
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Wow, well, thank you Bridget. Listeners definitely go check that out.
But Bridget, where can the listeners find you In the meantime.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
While listen to my podcast.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
There are our girls on the internet and you can
follow me on social media on Instagram at Bridget Marie
and DC, on TikTok at Bridget Marie and DC, and
on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
There are no girls on the internet.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yes, and please go do that listeners. If you have
not already, if you would like to contact us, you can.
Our email is Hello at stuff Wenever Told You dot com.
You can find us on Blue Sky. I'm also a
podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I Never
Told You, prost on YouTube. You have a te public store,
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books. Thanks as always here at super Duced
Christina or executive producer My Ander, contributor Joey. Thank you
(53:46):
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told
You Production I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio ap
Apple podcasts where you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
No Yeah,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I've never told you protection by her radio and today
we are so happy to once again be joined by
the fabulous, the fantastic Bridgete Todd. Welcome Bridget, Thanks for
(00:27):
having me.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Always a pleasure to hang out with.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
You, gals, Yes, it always is, and we know you're
so busy, so we're so happy we can make this
work even when the topics at hand are not so great.
But before we get into that loaded question, as always,
how have you been, Brigitte?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh, things are okay.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's pride here in d C, DC celebrating the fiftieth
anniversary of Pride in DC. So it's world pride being
celebrated here in d C. So it's been a more
even with looming large figure who also lives in DC,
we're still trying to away to have a good time
here or something.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Things have been a little cheery. How are you to
doing it?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think we're I'm doing I'm doing well. I'm going
to find a doctor, Bridget And this is news for me.
I haven't been to the doctor forever, but I'm going
to go. I'm going to take that Steph and also
I've just been having fun with.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Friends, So what has been keeping you from going to
the doctor. Just we don't have to talk about.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
The way you started that felt like we had an
intervention with you or so NI any time, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
No, no, no, I just I think a lot of people,
unfortunately can relate. I haven't had a good experience going
to the doctor, and so I and I also wait
and till I'm like absolutely convinced maybe I might actually
be on death door before I'm going. But I've actually
(02:10):
had like two panic attacks recently that I thought I
was on death stoor and I still didn't go, And
I was like, this is probably a sign. This is
you should really you should really go and check and
make sure these are actually big texts. But yeah, you know,
steps baby steps ahead.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
And I have to say, like, nothing makes me feel
more like I am being the adult, grown woman I am,
like when I take care of the medical thing I've
been avoiding for a long time and I finally make
that appointment.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So just think, just focus on that.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
How good you're gonna feel once you actually book the appointment,
talk to a medical professional. You know you're gonna be
treating yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Right, Yes, I Thank you, Brigitte. This has been a
long time coming to be on this, but uh, I'm
going to do it, and I'm going to take it
as a positive. I'm doing it.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Hm, it's self.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Care Annie, Yeah, hold you accountable on this.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I like that this is like an intervention again. Yeah,
I think, Uh, for me and for doctors, it's always
the fear that I'm gonna go and they're gonna tell
me there's nothing wrong with me and I'm making things
up in my head.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
It's one of those things that it's like, doesn't really
make sense, but at the same time, but you know
the history of doctors and what they say to women
in general. You know how that goes. We know how
that goes.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
But yeah, for myself, is that actually nice day. It's
been a nice day for a few days. The rain
has stopped in Atlanta for a little bit. It's gotten cool.
I have a little mini garden, Bridget I have a
little mini garden, and I've gotten at least five cherry tomatoes.
Oh my gosh, very proud of this.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
How it's so when having your own garden, it'll be
so much work and so much money and so much effort.
And you're like, oh, I got one blueberry.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I was like, I held onto it, took little pictures.
It was like, it is the cutest, most perfect tomato ever.
I will say it was a starter plant from Costco,
not a sponsor. Yeah, I love Costco. But I'm still
proud of it. I still feel like we did it
even though it was already kind of there before we
bought it.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, I was a tomato.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Like those tomato plants don't want tom fool you like,
they're actually lay pretty labor intensive in terms of kind
of foods that you can grow on a small garden.
So you actually started with a high bar. So the
fact that you got any kind of thing that you
could eat at all, it's really you know, you should
feel good about that five.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So you know, I count that as a win over here.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I think that is a win. But this is probably
one of the most depressing transitions I've ever made, speaking
of not believing women. We do have a topic today
that is full of that kind of those kind of
tropes that we hear a lot, and it's a lot
(05:09):
to go through. So bridget what are we talking about today?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I have to give a pretty big trigger warning because
it is the Sean Diddy Comb's trial. As folks probably know,
he was arrested back in twenty twenty four, because currently
the trial is ongoing. As soon as he was arrested,
as soon as I saw the news, I thought, oh,
this is about to be a storm of like disinformation,
half truth, is online, gendered tropes, all the things that
(05:38):
we know kind of go hand in hand with this
kind of thing. And I've actually been following how this
has been playing out since his arrest, and so now
that the trial is happening, I feel like it's a
great time to sort of get into all of it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yes, and all of it encompasses quite a lot, and
I think for some people people that can feel kind
of like easy to dismiss because he feels kind of,
at least to me, like that was a long time ago,
that guy. But actually no, and actually it does matter
(06:13):
a lot. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh? Absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So it seems like every day there's a new celebrity
wrongdoing story out there in the news. But I would
argue that this trial is more than this one celebrity
did something bad for a few reasons. One that it's
a colmb's is a very very powerful figure. Again, if
you're a younger listener, you might think of him as
a little bit of a throwback, but he is definitely
(06:37):
more than a musician. He is one of the most
powerful figures in Hollywood. His influence reaches far beyond entertainment.
From media. He used to have a TV He used
to be the owner of a TV news channel called Revolt,
which is still around, but they have My understanding is
that that Diddy is no longer at the helm that
had a pretty important partnership with NBC's Universal and Comcast.
He's very influential, involved in politics, used to have a
(06:59):
very sort of well regarded voting initiative, very involved in tech.
Fun fact is that he was when Elon Musk decided
to take over Twitter. Shawn Comes is one of his
early investors, and I was reading a book about this,
and early on some of the black leadership was like, ooh,
we're a little bit worried about how Elon Musk might
(07:19):
moderate racial slurs on the platform. And to kind of
quell concerns about this, he was like.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Elon Musk was like, oh, well, do you know Diddy
Puff and I are personal friends. We text a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Kind of like doing the I have a black friend,
and that black friend is Shawn Combs, right, and so
I share that to share Shawn Colmes was this is
this incredibly influential person who sits at the crossroads of
all these different types of power that goes so beyond music.
I've been rewatching old episodes of the Real Housewives of
New York, like first season, second season, third season. The
(07:54):
amount of times that Seawn Holmes comes up on this
show about sort of well to do New York white
ladies who are all wealthy when they go to the Hamptons,
they're like, oh, you're going to the diddy party later. Like,
he is such a figure in so many different circles,
and that's clearly intentional, right, Like, that's clearly a way
for him to sort of become this powerful figure that
(08:16):
no one would ever believe these horrible things about because
he hobnobs with such you know, powerful wealthy people. And
so I would argue that this story with Combs, it's
really not just about celebrity scandals. It's really about power,
how it's held, how it's protected, and how social media
can really be used to shape the narrative and also
(08:37):
reinforce really harmful attitudes and tropes that silence victims and
then shield the elite from accountability when they do something wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, and I have been reading about these statistics around
bots that are used in cases like this and just
building up this social media anger and presenting usually a
very misogynistic viewpoint to get people to believe like, oh,
(09:06):
this is the truth and this is what everyone thinks,
so you should think that as well. And this is
not the first time we've seen this in big celebrity cases.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And it's interesting that you mentioned bots because there's been
so much reporting an analysis after the fact with the
Johnny Depp amber Herd trial about the way that specifically
bots were used in an effort to shape public opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I would argue very successfully.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But again, that was another example of like a highly
coordinated PR campaign with this big digital component that was
really about sort of turning the public opinion against amber
Heard that really relied on these misogynistic tropes and really
kind of gave a platform to people who will take
any excuse to tear down a woman in public. I mean,
(09:52):
I'll be curious to see how the trial with Sean
Combs plays out.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I feel like the ways that we're.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Seeing this trial play out online, I would actually argue
that like most people have gleaned that Sean Combs has
done something wrong, Like it's not taking the way that
I think it used to take when people would sort
of have these online smear campaigns.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
It's interesting because cases like these have always had been rumors,
you know, like the truth is kind of insinuated from jump,
but you always hear like the rumors at hand. There
are things that have been mentioned. As a person who
was in social work, one of the things that we
would talk about often is when we see campaigns or
when we see trials that go into civil lawsuits and
(10:46):
everybody that like whole beginning jump of people being like
defensive and being like, oh, they're just trying to get money.
And I remember that being a thing for Cassie as well,
Like when she was spart coming out, She's like, why
didn't they go the police? You know that aged old
like really bad take on that ideal that it was
something really bad, he would have been arrested by now, right,
And it feels interesting that this type of case has
(11:09):
come into such a way that people are just having
to really question that conversation about like, oh, it's not
just rumors.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, there have definitely been rumors about this for
a long time. And to your point, Sam, like, according
to the government, the reason why shn Colms has been
able to avoid arrest for this long is precisely what
he's being charged with. That he used his influence and
his businesses and his power and his money to silence
victims and essentially engage in a sex trafficking, fraud and
(11:38):
corrosion ring. So the things that he is being charged
with these being charged with civil charges from mostly women
and some men, who are accusing him of a wide
range of sexual crimes, and five criminal counts, one of racketeering,
one of conspiracy, two counts of sex trafficking by force,
fraud or coercion, and two counts of transportation to engage
in prostitution. So those five criminal charges are what the
(12:01):
bulk of this trial is about. So basically, the government
says that Sean Combs has been using its business enterprise
to conduct a criminal sex trafficking and kidnapping ring, and
that he was using money and power to intimidate victims
and to cover up these crimes.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
For a really long time. One thing that I just
want to like.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Say super clearly is that if there was one narrative
I've seen sort of being pushed in this trial is
that he is being accused of being freaky, Like, oh,
he's being like the reason why he's being on trial
right now is because of freaky sex parties, party gatherings
that he would call quote freak offs. But I want
to be very clear, he is not facing charges for
(12:41):
being freaky or having freaky sex or freaky parties, and
not for nothing. Everybody knows that real freaky people create
a culture of consent, so that wouldn't even.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Be what this is. He is being accused of being.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
The ring leader of this like massive criminal enterprise that
involved subjecting people to a pattern of physical and sexual abuse,
according to federal prosecutors, and so investigators are saying that
over a span of years, Combs would apply his victims
with drugs and even resort to violence and intimidation to
force them into these days long sex sessions. He did
(13:13):
not act alone, according to federal prosecutors. However, no one
else has been criminally charged in this case. Yet, according
to the government, Combs allegedly had assistants, managers, and security
staff who would make sure that women and male sex
workers were present at these hotel days long sex sessions,
and that the hotels would be staged and stocked with
(13:33):
supplies like lubricant and baby oil. Which do we remember
another man accused of gross behavior who also allegedly had
a thing for baby oil.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Where baby oi oil not go?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yes, unfortunately, Hugh Heckner.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I mean, I'll take this opportunity to remind folks that
baby oial should not be used as a sexon lubricant.
And if you are using baby oil as a sexual lubricant,
it's no good for anybody. And it just it just
I find it so curious that both of these men
accused of sexual misconduct and sexual crimes apparently both had
(14:15):
a thing for baby oil.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I don't know what's going on there.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Somebody can write an interesting essay about what's going on there,
But don't you find that curious?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
I wonder if it's like to me, I'm like, it
just seems like misinformation. They're inability to actually research what
isn't isn't effective and just go on this lorics look
at this like they accidentally sent stumbled upon it my mind,
like they are just like, oh, baby oil, Yeah, yeah, Okay,
this does it. And just for anybody who does use that,
(14:45):
go see a doctor.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean I use oil cleanser on my face when
I when I'm wearing face paint or sunscreen.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I don't want to think about what that does.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Internally, right, Like, no, not a good thing to be
used for sexual lubricant.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Oh, I feel like the best it's a sad spectrum
because I think the best answer would be misinformation and
the worst answer would be knowing that it causes pain
and or just some infantilizing. With the baby oil part.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's also my thinking that there must be some kind
of you know, association with baby oil, and like, I
don't know, something is going on there.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Something is going on there, and it had been happening,
as Samantha said, there had been rumors, there have been
people kind of talking about what was going on here,
but it took some people speaking up being vocal about
it before we're finally getting this trial. So can you
(15:51):
talk about that?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So, the person who was sort of the main voice
at the center of a lot of what's going on
is R and B Singer.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Cassie Ventura.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Was in a personal and professional relationship with Sean Combs
for over a decade, and her civil lawsuit was the
watershed suit that preceded all the other charges. In November
twenty twenty three, Cassie filed a federal lawsuit against Comb's
alleging years of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. Her lawsuit
also named Combs's businesses so bad Boy Entertainment, bad Boy Records,
(16:21):
Epic Records, and Comb's Enterprises. After only a day so
she came forward with these charges. It was like hours later.
They settled these charges out of court, but her willingness
to come forward really opened the floodgates for a dozen
other lawsuits against Combs and so Cassie's lawsuit alleged that
this was just the beginning of Combs's coercion and abuse, which.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
She says I took over her life.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
You know, Sam, you were talking about kind of rumors
and whispers. I'm a music person, I'm an R and
B person, and I remember when Cassie first came on
the scene, there was a little bit of a feeling
of you know, she had this one great debut album.
Then there was a very long time until she released
another album, and there was a question of like, oh,
it seems strange that her career didn't take off more
(17:07):
considering that she's in a personal and professional partnership. Was
one of the most important names in music. People will
be like, what's going on with her career? Well, this
lawsuit really gives us a little bit of a glimpse
into what might have been going on, because she says
that her abuse by Combs essentially took over her life.
He would force her to take illicit drugs and force
her to participate in these days long sex sessions with
(17:31):
male sex workers, where Combs would film her and physically
assault her. The lawsuit said that when he would attack
her physically these this was often witnessed by Combs as
staff like employees of.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Bad Boy Entertainment, and she would scream out.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
You know, there's a very compelling piece of testimony she
gave where she's crying on a plane and she says,
doesn't anybody see this? And nobody intervenes, and so she
says that that's basically what she was up against four.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Years and we don't.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Actually we have to take Cassie's word for it, because
we saw evidence of this with our own eyes. Earlier
this year, CNN published footage of Combs attacking Cassie in
a hotel lobby. Prosecutors alleged that there was a male
sex worker still in their hotel room at the time
of their surveillance video recording. Cassie testified that this video
was shot in a by hotel security.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Footage when she was in the middle of one of
these sessions in their.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Hotel and she was just like, I got to get
out of here and left. And in this video you
see her walk out of a hotel room, hit the
elevator button.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Combs comes into.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
The scene and really attacks her, knocks her down and
drags her back into the room.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's horrifying to watch. So initially, when.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Cassie came forward, Combs was doing exactly Annie what you
were saying, where he said, Oh, she's just lying, she
just wants a pay day, YadA, YadA, YadA. Well, then
this footage came out and he basically would I guess.
I guess they were like, oh, we gotta settle this one.
I can no longer pretend like this didn't happen. The
reason why that footage took so long to become public.
(19:07):
Was that Diddy allegedly paid off hotel security to keep
that footage buried until we saw it on CNN.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
It was really interesting because I remember when Gussie first
came out with that lawsuit and there were so many
people co going and defending Diddy and talking about how
she was just all about the money and why she
doing this now that she's gotten like broke since leaving
him or whatever whatnot. But I too, growing up in
the R and B Era and the loving PDD and
(19:35):
the whole crew, Like remember when she first came out
with her first song and then watched her become his girlfriend,
I guess. And then as I was really huge into
like making of the band, I loved Dannity Kane had
that first album, still remember it really well, and then
saw Dawn with that, I was like, wait a minute,
what's happening? And this was so freshly after j Low
(19:57):
that it just seemed odd. The timing was weird. He
was doing way too much, seemingly, and I remember thinking
Cassie was like, you're actually kind of good. Why aren't
you singing? Oh exactly, You're just now his girlfriend. Like
that was such an odd jump. And also seeing Dawn
because during that time, I remember there was a lot
of drama.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yes, So I also watched all the iterations of Making
the Band and Don Richards.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Of Danny Kin.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So Danny Kane was the girl music group that was
formed in the third iteration of MTV's Making the Band,
which was a show where Diddy would put together a
music group and then if they worked out, they would
get signed to his record label.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And so Don Richards from Danny Kane.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I so before Cassie ever came forward, Don had been
speaking out about what a bad guy did he was,
And I feel like she was really.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Treated like a crazy psycho.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
People would be like, oh, this woman is so difficult,
Like did he gave gave her a chance?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And this is how she repays him?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Like I feel like that's really how people framed her.
And I mean, well, we see who was telling the truth,
because down went from just speaking up about this to
having people tell her that she was crazy or making
it up, to testifying in a federal court during this trial.
So yeah, we see how crazy she was. Like obviously
(21:22):
she wasn't making this up because here we are having
a federal court court case about it.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Aubrey also was painted as a villain, and she was
like at the very beginning and everybody was calling her
the drama queen and why the group failed was because
of Aubrey. But then like as again comes about because
she played They played her as the diva cache, they
played her as the over the top princess and big
(21:46):
villain in this conversation too, And she was the loudest
one before, like especially watching down being on on Sean
Combe's arms. She was like, this is weird, this is
not cool. They did all these things, and it turned
out she was the only one that did not sign
the NDA out of the group. So she was very,
(22:07):
very loud about. She didn't ever accuse, but she was
just like, this is not what you think it is.
And she was really loud about that.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
She put out a thing in People magazine, And to
be clear, she was not subpoenaed or called to testify
in the current trial, but she put out a piece
in People magazine, I think just a couple of days
ago where she said, I have been speaking the truth
about Diddy for twenty years, and you're absolutely right. The
way that she was so easily painted as a delusional
drama queen diva, and it's like, oh, well, we see
(22:37):
who was delusional because one of us is going in
front of a federal court right now and it's not
Aubrey Hodet.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Okay, right right.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
There's so much to be said in this case. It
was again following up the initial part was like they're
all lying, they're just trying to pay. And Dinny was
doing a kind of good job in painting Cassie as
that as well. I remember, like for the first like
second until that video was released, people were like, yeah,
(23:04):
this is another he said, she said, and she's causing
this drama again all these things, and then as it
comes about and that video comes out, everybody's like, oh
never mind, Oh never mind. And then you don't really
know because they did settle that case out of court
and it was so quick and everybody's like, oh, yeah,
she got her pay, she got her pay. We don't
know what, we know, something's gone down. And then trying
(23:27):
to figure out what was in that that was so
even more damning than that one video that There's a
lot to be said about what was in her testimony.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Her testimony has been heartbreaking, some of them, I mean
I and she's not the only person who's testified, has
been a lot of people testifying. But essentially, she says
that she was forced into these drug fueled sexual encounters
with male escorts. That I mean, the things that she
says went on during these events, I mean, I won't
get into all of it here, but it is well,
(23:56):
just call it unpleasant. And that importantly Holmes would film
this and then use those videos as a way to
further extort her into complying. And so her mother, Regina Ventura,
testified that at one point, did he essentially blackmailed her
mom into paying him twenty thousand dollars. Now, mind you
(24:19):
Didny is a very wealthy man. You have Cassie Ventura's
mother being forced to pay him twenty thousand dollars because
he was angry that for a brief while Cassie left
him and started a brief relationship with rapper Kid Cuddy,
and did he a parent allegedly told Cassie Venturer's mother, Regina,
if you do not pay me twenty thousand dollars, I
(24:41):
will release these TAPESA one of the releases.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
He said, was going to be on Christmas Day.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
So Cassie's mom and her husband said they had to
take out a home equity loan to fulfill that payment
to Colmbs because it was the only way they can get.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
The money right.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And so it is so not only was her testimony
completely heartbreaking, you know when it comes to these sort
of gendered tropes that were seeing play out online, the
way that people are responding to what Cassie is saying,
it is also difficult because you know when people say
why didn't she leave, It's like, well, he was extorting
(25:15):
her mom, right, Like we saw a video of her
trying to leave and he physically attacks her and dragged
her back into the room. So when people ask these
questions of like, well, why didn't she leave, it's.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Like I could, I could understand why.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
That would be difficult, Like he physically would not let
her Sam. Cassie was nineteen when they met and Diddy
was thirty seven, so she was a child when they met.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And it's just it breaks my heart that she.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Cross paths with someone who was such a powerful abuser
for so long. Like some of the testimonies she gives
is the way that he impacted her career, that she
would do things and say things just to keep him calm,
because he basically had the power to blow up her life,
her professional life, her family life, and so she talks
(26:07):
about how she basically would say and do anything just
to keep him from doing something erratic, doing something dangerous,
hurting her family. One of the pieces of testimony that
I also found pretty compelling is that the rapper kid
Cutty at one point she briefly left Diddy and started
a brief relationship with him, and he testified that when
this happened, did he broke into his home unwrapped Christmas
(26:30):
gifts so we're under his Christmas tree, and locked his
dog into a bathroom, and then shortly thereafter his car
was firebombed, right, and so he went to Ditty's.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
He believes Diddy did this.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
He went to Diddy's hotel room to talk about it,
and according to this testimony, he said that it was
pretty clear that Diddy was not going to let Cassie
sort of be free and have a relationship with somebody else,
and that essentially they broke off their relationship because Cassie
said it was not safe for them to truck, try
to be with each other, try to do anything because
this was the means that Diddy would go to control
(27:04):
her behavior and prevent her from seeing somebody else. And
so yeah, when people get into this, this this, I mean,
the trompe is really tired.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
As it is. But when people ask like, why didn't.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
She leave, that's a pretty good reason why someone won't leave. Firebombings,
twenty thousand dollars payoffs from your mom putting her house
at collateral for a loan to pay off a millionaire,
Like I can understand why she didn't.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Leave, right, I mean honestly, not that I'm not saying
this is a thing, but like when people are dying
around him, his like peer group, including his ex wife,
including a partner, including several other people. I know these
are all alleged, and there's a lot of rumors about that.
Just that's enough. Even if the whle he said was
(27:49):
do you notice what happens to these people, whether it's
a threat or whether it's just yeah, bad karma or
bad whatever he wants to say, that'd be enough. That'd
be enough to be like, I'll stick around, It's okay.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, I can only imagine how terrifying that would be
and the feeling of, you know, when she briefly was
in a relationship with kid Cutty. She testified that Shan
Colmbs told her that she and kid Cutty were putting
themselves at physical risk by doing this, and he said, specifically,
(28:23):
it won't be at my hands, but you will, like
something bad will happen to you. And you know, diddyou
is someone who does have people close to him that
have met bad means, I'll put it that way, and
so I can understand.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Why this is how she felt.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I mean, that would be really, really terrifying, and so yeah,
it just goes to show that that trope, for so
many reasons, doesn't really apply, and it just flies in
the face of what we know about abuse. You know,
abusers often are using emotional manipulation, they're isolating people, they're
controlling their partners. You also can feel more connected to
(28:59):
your abuse because he's like trauma bonded because you met
him when you were nineteen a child.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Cassie testifies to that.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
She says that a lot of the times that during
their relationship, when he would do this behavior that was
so horrible to her.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It was confusing because.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
You know, they had been in a relationship for over
a decade, so she still felt affection and love for him,
and I can only imagine how confusing that would be.
So this kind of fear of physical violence or other
forms of retribution, we know keeps victims of abuse trapped
in relationships. And yeah, Cassie speaks to the way that
this was a huge motivating factor for.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Her, as we've been speaking to this whole time. Unfortunately,
this is not necessarily new, these tropes, and I think
a lot of women when there's a big trial like this,
(29:55):
we kind of brace ourselves because we know we're gonna
see these things play out. And now that we're seeing
kind of changing technology around bots and AI, perhaps it's
gotten intensified. But you also said some of it it's
a little a little different. So what are some of
(30:16):
these other tropes that we're seeing.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah, well there's a good old fashioned gold digger trope
which has come up quite a bit during this trial.
Combs's lawyer said this in his opening statement, quote, when
you hear from the witnesses who testify here, who will
tell you that they were victimized, and you ask yourself,
what is your motive?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
For many of them, the answer is simple money.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And so he referred to Cassie's civil suit seeking damages
against Combs as a money grab.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
The defense lawyer.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Then asked this question of the jury, quote, how many
millions of reasons is this witness swearing to tell the
truth and nothing but the truth have to lie. But
you know, we've talked about this before. Cassie already settled
her civil suit with Diddy.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
He's settled. Like, she filed that suit by two pm
and by three pm.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They were like, let's just here's here you go. You're right,
let's just not And so first of all, come on, now,
like you wouldn't do You wouldn't do that, You would
not settle so quickly if this was some sort of
a financial extortion situation. And at this point that civil
suit was already settled, So why would she continue to
do this? If this were like all about money? That
(31:25):
civil suit has already been settled. And I guess that's
always the first thing people say when this kind of
thing happens is, oh, it's a money grab. In what
way are all of these people who are testifying making money?
Like one of the people who testifies is Cassie's former
good friend who said that, like, you know, many years ago,
(31:46):
did he attacked her trying to figure out who Cassie
was cheating with. I'm putting cheating in quotes because who
knows what was going on? And she testified that did
he held a wooden coat hanger up to her throat
and was like strength her and that she when she
told Cassie about it, Cassie was like, oh, something big
of a deal, Like you're exaggerating what happened, YadA YadA, YadA,
(32:07):
and it ruined their friendship. She signed it, She signed
an NDA, and she was like, I never spoke to
either of them again.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
She in her testimony, she was like, I just want
to go on with my life. Somebody like that.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
What would she have to gain financially from testifying to
what happened? Right, Like, she has not spoken to either
of these people in.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
A very long time. She signed an NDA. She was
silent for years.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
What will these have financial impetus for somebody to blow
up their life by testifying?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Financially there isn't one.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
There are others who have testified that didn't get anything
and are looking pretty ugly because we know when this
type of trap, especially when there's a lot of abuse
as well as trauma as well as kind of like
the whole Stockholm syndrome. They become a part of the
problem as well, which is a whole different conversation and
like a layered onion that you have to get into
because there could be charges because of this. Of course,
(32:58):
there's probably plea deals for to flying against p Diddy
slash Shawn Combs, but the actuality is like when they
start talking about these are the things I had to
do for him, it doesn't look good, like there's no
reason to do those for themselves.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yes, staf former staffers of Diddy who say, oh yeah,
I remember him attacking Cassie physically her crying out, saying
somebody help me.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
And I just looked the other way.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Who would be paying them to say these things publicly
if they didn't actually happen. Like the people who say this,
I'm so curious for them to finish the thought of
like being paid by who Who is the person who
was like writing the check? So they were doing these
things because they were on staff being paid by Diddy.
Who would be paying them now to speak up about
what they did when these things make them look terrible?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, And I also think it's interesting that Cassie's so young.
When Sean Combs met her, and we were automatically like
framing it in the way, she must have been in
it for the money instead of thinking about like the
opposite side of it. We were like, oh no, she
(34:07):
this like a nineteen year old must have been thinking
about this money though.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Annie, So I have like a perhaps unpopular opinion about this,
and I will stand by and defend. I fully understand
that a nineteen year old and a thirty seven year
old being consentually together is not illegal if it's above
the age of consent. But come on, now, what about
a thirty seven year old man have to be doing?
(34:33):
Like what would a thirty seven year old adult be
doing with a nineteen year old? Like, I don't care
what anybody says. I'm not saying it's against the law,
but I am saying, like if my thirty seven year
old friend was like, hey, meet my new girlfriend. She's nineteen,
I don't have an opinion about that. I fully understand
this is it's not breaking the law. I'm still going
on the record and saying I don't love it, and
(34:54):
then that we should be looking at that thirty seven
year old man like what's going on that you're trying
to start a relationship with a nineteen year old, right?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I mean he kind of proved what he was doing
and it had nothing to do with love or being,
you know, being so head over heels about someone. It
was to show off and show control, which is what
he did. Like I remember clearly at one of the
MTV Awards and her coming out again with Dawn on
Shawn Combs's arms and then being having to be dressed
(35:22):
up in him, like showing them off as again as
if his property and being like, look what I did,
like trying to change her image. I remember her initial
video to when she was in her early twenties and
being established with Shawn Combs, like how her so much
of her change and it was him taking credit as
much as he was taking credit for these bands that
(35:43):
he supposedly created in their images and making sure that people,
including the audience and including all of the crowd, knew
that it was his ownership and that that's what he
was the proudest of. And people took that as a thing.
They really were like, Yeah, yeah, he's the man, because
he's not only this guy, but he can control these
young girls and he can get him. You know, it
(36:04):
was played out and he was very proud of that,
and we see that often in these kind of dynamics
in general.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah, So when this when the charges were first popping up,
people found this old interview with the rapper Young Jack,
who was talking about being out with Cassie and Diddy,
and that Diddy, according to him, jumped up on a
bar during a party in twenty eighteen and said, quote, Yo, Cassie, tomorrow,
I want you to shave the side of your head,
(36:32):
and that Young Jack says that he recalls being shocked
by this request. He turned to Cassie and asked if
she was were they going to go through with it,
and Cassie reportedly responded, well, whatever Sean wants me to do,
I'm going to do. And so as you remember that,
I mean, Cassie is a gorgeous woman. So it kind
of I don't mean it almost weirdly backfired because it
(36:52):
started a trend. And this was like women were wearing
the half shaved head because it was like, oh, Cassie
looks so good, I'll never forget go into a hair
stylist and asking for that, and she was like, honey,
you're no Cassie, but I.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah. She was like, I don't think it's a good
look for you.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I'm not gonna She refused to do it, and so
according to young Jack, Cassie did shave the side of
her head and sent him a picture the next day
to prove it right. And so the reason why he
maybe wanted to be with somebody so young was because
he was looking for somebody moldable that he could control,
and then he could make a show of controlling like that,
(37:28):
like not just controlling her behind closed doors, making a
show of how much control he had over these things
that are so intimate, like the way that black women
wear our hair, Like that's a that's a very intimate
emotional thing, and I can imagine somebody wanting to make
a show out of that. They can control you down
to these things that are so tied to our identities
(37:49):
and who we are, like our hair.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Right, I mean the whole I've got her name. She
was the choreographer for making the band. They got into
a huge fight, oh yeah, and then they had to
cut it real quick. But like it showed his true
side and true characteristics of him being really controlling and
over the top with his anger issues slash control issues.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I'm so glad you brought this up. And I have
to like, I'm a little complicit in this myself, because,
as I said, I watched every season of Making the Band.
There was a time where it was iconic television. And
if you watch that show, you remember that he made
the band walk all the way from Lower Manhattan to
Brooklyn and back to get him a slice of cheesecake
(38:32):
in the middle of the night, which, like, I've made
that walk, it is a long walk, and that when
they brought the cheesecake to him, he didn't even eat it.
And I remember watching this and being like, Wow, he's
really teaching them a lesson.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
This is great TV. It wasn't great TV.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
It was controlling behavior of a power hungry narcissist.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And it's interesting to me.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
The way that these things, looking back on these things now,
they seem so much darker. I mean, obviously I didn't
know what was going on with Diddy then, I had
not heard those allegations.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I was in and You're high.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
But the way that his controlling, over the top behavior
was glamorized and sold back to us as this is
how the industry really is like, these people who want
to be in the music industry need to understand and
get on board.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
But the way that did he wants to do things.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
I cringe thinking about how I consumed that as entertainment
when I was younger.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
All right, and I had small hopes that I could
be a part of a band. Maybe I could be
I could sing, and I can dance and train like that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yes, we that was glamorized to the point where you
they had you watching it, wish wishing you could walk
to Brooklyn for Cheesecakeman, this monster.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I'll do I'll do it, you know.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
With all of this in conversation though, and I've had this,
I've had this specific topic with a lot of different women,
especially when it comes to like domestic violence and uh
intimate violence when we talk about when it comes to
the racial aspect of this as well. I have talked
to several different black women who are so strong talking
about they never wanted to report it, They never wanted
(40:11):
to talk about it because if they did, they would
put one more black man under a system that we
know is going to be unfair from jump, like, there's
no doubt about it. But then on top of because
when you look at the comparison of the white man
versus black men who are going to be severely punished
and who is going to be the scapegoat of all
of everything, Like, there's this level of moment where they're like,
(40:33):
do I really want to do this? Am I a
part of the system if I actually tell the truth
and try to get justice. There's a whole level on that.
And Sean Combs has become like R Kelly too was
one of those like, yeah, you're just doing this because
he's black type of conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Absolutely, and I feel that any time like a famous
man end of sentence, but also famous black men especially
is it is a tough conversation because you know, I
do think in the black community there's this attitude that
we are supposed to protect powerful abusers because they are black.
And I think what they are what folks who are
(41:10):
upholding is what they're really saying is that not that
we want better for all for everybody, everybody dess better. No, No,
what they're actually saying is black men should be able
to abuse people with impunity the same way that powerful
white men do. And that and that is that that
is the future that they want and so like that
feels or looks like progress to them, and that's not
(41:31):
what I want. I want a future where no man
is allowed to do this kind of thing without consequences
and being held accountable. But I think that's what they're
actually saying, right There is a I don't want to
get into a whole thing, but there is a famous
black man who I cannot stand, and I have many
reasons why I can outstand him, but one of the
reasons why I can outstand him is that he has
(41:51):
a whole flew of sexual misconduct allegations in his past
and that nobody ever really brings them up that much.
And when I post about it on social media every
single time, there is at least one and usually more
people in my comments being like, well, Trump get gets
away with it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
You know, they like the Trump president.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
And what they're really saying is like, our guys, black
men should be able to break the law and be
horrible without consequences, just like white men, and that it
is not a future that I want. That it's not
what a quality looks like to me. That is not
what progress looks like to me. And I think it's
interesting that you bring up r Kelly, because it is
a thing that we see, you know, men who are
(42:32):
powerful who are also abusers. Oftentimes they are doing things
that make you think of them in a positive light,
precisely so that they can, you know, create the conditions
where they can keep doing things without accountability.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Right.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
In an episode that we did of my podcast, There
Are No Girls on the Internet, we were covering Epstein,
and one of the things about Epstein was that he
would do these things to ingratiate himself in the upper
echelons of the tech world, like making big donations to
MIT's renowed Media Lab and other respected institutions, to shield
himself from his vast crimes. Right, so Bill Cosby did
(43:09):
the same thing. R Kelly did the same thing, did he?
You know, he was known for this iconic white party
that was like a who's who of a list celebrities.
He donates to all the right causes. He gave a
million dollars to his alma mater, Howard University here in DC.
All of these things that are basically meant to shield
him from being called out. And even his attorney said
this in a statement when when Cassie was first coming
(43:31):
forward with the relegations. His attorney said, Sean did Hey
Combs is a music icon, self made entrepreneur, loving family man,
and proven philanthropists who have spent the last thirty years
building an empire, adoring his children, and working to uplift
the black community. So basically, it's I've done all these
great things for my community.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
How could I ever be an abuser? And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Exactly why they do these things, and so that when
someone comes and says, he did this horrible thing to me,
they can point to this record of you know, philanthropy
and uplifting a community to say that, no, he did it.
That's exactly I mean, it's such an old playbook. It's
exactly what his attorney did.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
It's so gross because it is it's that whole level
of like his good days outweigh his bad days. We
just need to sacrifice some of these people for the
betterment of the community. And that's been a thing everywhere
in the church, even like we look at the amount
of abuse that happens within churches and within you know, priesthoods,
(44:28):
they are so willing to not only do so they
don't look bad, but they also because but they've done
really well and they've done good for the community and
actually not remembering. But these are the underlying issues that
this is who he really is, whether you want to
believe it or not. The abuse and the control is
who he is. He just has a great amount of
money to be able to prove otherwise.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah, I mean we saw.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
It's it's funny that you say this because when he
really when that video of him attacking Cassie from the
hotel surveillance put it came forward, he made one but
before things is really snowballed and it was like, okay,
this is there's nothing you can say.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
He made one of those grainy videos.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
That a celebrity makes where he was like, listen, that
person that you saw in that video, that's not who
I am. And it's like, actually, was who you are?
It wasn't your clone. Okay with you, homie, Like that's you.
You do these things.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We saw what you do. Like, don't try to tell
me that wasn't you. You've grown this and that that's you.
We see who you are. You've shown us we are
who you are.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yes, And it's also interesting bringing up the religious aspect
just in terms of I feel like this whole idea
of younger people. But women in this case can't. They
can't control themselves, and men, grown men can't control themselves
around them, and so really, whose fault is this? This
(45:54):
is like kind of another troupe, like literally the adult man.
But that's something we see online is sort of this
idea of like, oh, but she she was she was
consenting though she kind of wanted this whole thing, or
like she.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Was fast, you know, And yes, I just I guess
that's my sort of overall point is that we have
all of these ready made tropes and excuses that are
so repeatable that really, I mean, they just absolve men
of their own behavior and I'm just so sick of it,
(46:32):
and yeah, it just it has to change. And I
think that it's not surprising to me that we're seeing
all of this kind of stuff play out in court
because did He obviously has hired lawyers to say these things.
I get it, but we don't people don't have to
repeat them on the internet. Right, I'm not gonna begrudge
did He getting the best you know, lawyer that he
(46:53):
can to truck. You know, it isn't until we've been guilty.
Totally get it, But that doesn't mean that we should
be giving credence to these tropes that are so gendered
and so misogynistic that absolve people of their wrongdoing. I
think that's my bigger point is that the way that
these tropes are so easily and often repeated online whenever
there's a high profile case like this, I believe it
(47:14):
trickles down into our everyday lives. And so when someone
who's not an A lister like Cassie is accusing someone
who is not an A lister like Diddy of this
kind of wrongdoing, I think the same way that that
we're poised and primed to hear these tropes like this
play out in a high profile celebrity case, it's going
to happen in these cases that are not high profile
celebrities as well, and so we should really when we
(47:36):
hear them, we should program ourselves to check them and
then push back on them because so often they're just
not true.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yes, yes, so many problems. Well, what's next with the trial?
Speaker 3 (47:52):
So the trial is ongoing, and according to Rolling Stone,
Combs is already working on a pardon from President Trump
if he's convicted. Several long time friends and allies of
Combs have began making connections with Trump's team with the
hopes of laying the groundwork for presidential pardon if Combs
is in fact found guilty on the charges par rolling Stone.
Combs's team is hoping to appeal to Trump by drawing
(48:14):
a comparison between their shared stories two successful businessmen allegedly
targeted by federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New
York with baseless accusations of sexual assault. Combs and Trump
have reportedly maintained a friendly personal relationship for over a decade,
and just recently Trump was asked about this, and he said,
you know, nobody's asked if I'll pardon, did he But
(48:35):
if he doesn't get a fair trial, I'll certainly look
at it.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
So I honestly, you never know, it might work.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Oh, it probably will, Like I I just didn't he already, Yeah,
I remember correctly. There was a segment when he's like
trying to prove that he knows black people. Yes, like
I know buff Daddy.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're friends.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Trump
to have another name to throw out when he's trying
to say all these different black people you know, one
of my favorite quotes, of his favorite quotes of is
when he was like, I have a wonderful relationship with
the Blacks, And I remember thinking, like, that's how you
know you have a bad relationship when you call that,
when you call us the blacks?
Speaker 4 (49:13):
You know, Oh my god, sure am I trying to
kill a lot of them? It's all good. Wow. And
this is the saddest part is I feel like puffs lawyers.
I keep calling him puff because why not is that
this is probably the best route for them going to
(49:35):
get in a pardon.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
I mean, we could do a whole episode about this.
Trump just pardoned to other reality stars the Chris Lies
for tax evasion. I again, I think it's a good play.
I think if I were on Diddy's team and I
was being paid to ensure that he did not face accountability,
(49:57):
I would say, yeah, honestly, the chargest thing. Let's just
let that play out. Let's take it to the top.
President Trump, I think, I mean, I honestly do think
if he is convicted of these charges, I would not
be surprised if Trump actually did pardon him. Because Joe
Exotic from Tiger King has been begging Trump for a pardon.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
He did not get that pardon.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
And I think that the thing is Trump likes the celebrity,
the convicted celebrities who are like project wealth in a
way that.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Sean Kings does. Wealth and influence in power. That's what
he likes, right.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
I think he just pardoned the a sheriff in Virginia,
and his constituents are very pissed about that. They're like, no, yeah,
part is like what you think you were.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Of course he did, like he's a fellon himself. Of
course He's like, oh yeah, criminals people.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
This is my consistuents, these are my people.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
And I think going back to your point earlier about
watching this show and seeing p Diddy at the time
being like, hey, walk into walk this far with cheesecake
and I'm not going to eat it, and we were like, yeah,
I feel like you could make a pretty easy jump
to Trump being on the Apprentice and having that behavior
(51:17):
and being real terrible. And I was being like, but
he knows what he's doing, not me, but you know,
in general people and now look who's president.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
I have long believed that the overlap between the rise
of reality TV fame and the rise.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Of political power of people like Trump.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
That is, I mean, that's there's a thread there.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I guess I'll put it that way. I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yes, well again, we would love to keep talking because
so many other questions come to mind, And I know
you've spoke about this on your own podcast right about
AI and how it's kind of yes contribut to this.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
So if folks want to hear more about the way
that this trial is playing out online, we did a
whole episode of my podcast, There Are No Girls on
the Internet about the intersection of Diddy, conspiracy theories and AI.
Spoiler alert, AI is being used to turbocharge incorrect, inaccurate
information and narratives about this trial. If you have seen
(52:24):
a story online saying that they played a video.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Of prints during the trial, that's not true.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
If you heard if you heard that Ashton Cutcher testified,
that's not true. President Obama, Oprah, that's not true all AI.
Listen to the podcast for more.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
It is. It is truly wild.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
Oh no, it's going to be like a Pizzagate type
of thing.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Yes, oh no, I mean, if you ask the Internet,
every celebrity under the sun somehow is all in the
courtroom testifying, and then no other like, no reputable news
outlet is writing about it.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Right?
Speaker 4 (52:56):
And there are eating children?
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Wow, well, thank you Bridget. Listeners definitely go check that out.
But Bridget, where can the listeners find you In the meantime.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
While listen to my podcast.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
There are our girls on the internet and you can
follow me on social media on Instagram at Bridget Marie
and DC, on TikTok at Bridget Marie and DC, and
on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
There are no girls on the internet.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yes, and please go do that listeners. If you have
not already, if you would like to contact us, you can.
Our email is Hello at stuff Wenever Told You dot com.
You can find us on Blue Sky. I'm also a
podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I Never
Told You, prost on YouTube. You have a te public store,
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books. Thanks as always here at super Duced
Christina or executive producer My Ander, contributor Joey. Thank you
(53:46):
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told
You Production I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio ap
Apple podcasts where you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
No Yeah,
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