January 27, 2016 • 34 mins
Why do more than half of all lady legs develop varicose and spider veins? Cristen and Caroline provide a rarely offered anatomy lesson on why they happen, how to treat them and what they have to do with menstrual belt.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From how Supports
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about a health
issue that Caroline, I have reread it over since childhood.
(00:24):
Oh god, what I know. Most children probably don't freat
over very coast veins. But my mom was adamant that
I not cross my legs because of the old wives tale,
as it turns out that if you cross your legs
you'll get very coast veins. Because and I don't know
if she'd be cool with me sharing this with the world,
(00:46):
but she has very coast veins and underwent surgery for them.
It was super painful and really uncomfortable, and she was
always embarrassed about how her legs looked. So she channeled
that insecurity and you know, straight up health concern, loving
health concern to to me. So I've always been nervous
(01:07):
about that. And I'm I just realized that I'm sitting
at the podcast table with my ankles crossed, which is okay,
not one leg over the other. Now, I'm I'm sitting
like a man spreader right now because my I T
band is messed up. So I've got one leg like
way over to the side as a way to try
to stretch it out as I sit for two hours
as we record podcasts. But what kind of surgery did
(01:29):
she have for it? You know, I'd have to go
back and ask her, But I just I remember when
she had it. It might have been a scalare therapy procedure,
which we will explain later in the podcast. But I
just remember. Um I was in elementary school, I think
when she got the surgery, and I remember her being
laid up in bed for a while afterwards because she
(01:53):
couldn't really move around much. And I was very strange
hatting my mom, you know, on bed rest, because she
was such a you know, she was always doing everything.
It was like one of the rare weeks when she
wasn't well. My mom has not vericoas veins, although I
think she has some. My mom has an interesting vascular
(02:15):
thing going on that's on her legs and on her forearms.
And I'm hoping that by virtue of the fact that
we have a large intelligent audience, maybe somebody knows the
answer to this. But her vein problem is more like
spider veins, but they're not spider veins. Literally, no dermatologist
or vein specialists that she's gone to knows what the
problem is because it's all over her legs. It started
(02:38):
in her early twenties in her feet. I have the
same thing starting in my feet when I was in
my early to mid twenties. It hasn't spread yet the
way my mom's has, but it's very interesting. And she
too went and did the square therapy, which is incredibly painful.
And my mom who um, I'll just say that she
(02:59):
has a high tolerance for certain medications. She takes like
three viged in to go get the square therapy done,
and it's still killed her. Yeah, But then the veins
ended up just coming back. I don't know if that's
because what she has isn't true spider or very coos veins,
(03:20):
or if it's just like a totally different condition, or
maybe she's you know, she's not wearing her compression stockings
long enough or what do you think our mom's would
be so annoyed right now if I knew that we
were talking about them, sure my mom would be horrified. Well,
I've also been thinking about very coos veins and spider
veins more recently because I've just been noticing more billboards
(03:44):
around town for like vein specialists. They all say you're
so vain but like nice fun um. So I've I've
always been curious about what they are, because I've known
that they're this this thing that causes discomfort and leg insecurity,
but I've never really known what exactly vericoas veins are.
(04:05):
So now we do listeners, we have, we have facts
a plenty for you, and let's start with some history,
as we often do, because here's the thing. If you
think that sclerotherapy is painful, well it's a whole lot
better than it used to be the old school treatments
(04:27):
for very coast veins, because not surprisingly, vericas veins have
been around in our human bodies since forever. Yeah, they're
cave people with cave veins. Yeah, we have records of
Hippocrates observing ver coast veins, and he thought that they
were more common among Scythians, which were a group of
(04:50):
Eurasian nomads because they rode horses all the time. Yeah, well,
my mother should probably stop riding horses to run her
errand everywhere she's got a grocery store parking, there's never
a space for the horse. There's no trough. It's just everywhere,
so inconvenient. And I don't know that Hippocrates was so
(05:13):
far off, because by the sixteenth century we'd figured out
that there was a link between vericoas veins and standing
too long, particularly standing before kings. And then I'm immediately like,
how long were people standing before kings? What were they
waiting for? I guess you had to like go, like
I'm just picturing Game of Thrones and denies Targarian and
you had to like go request something and wait in
(05:35):
line for like ever. I thought of Game of Thrones too,
and realized how you would be standing there forever. And
of course you didn't have iPhones back then. Like what
did you do? I don't know. I guess you just twitter,
just thoughts, thoughts. Maybe people were more introspective back when
they were developing vericas veins while they were waiting for
the for the king. They also um noted links between
(05:59):
vericoas veins and pregnancy, which are a thing that exists
there there is an actual link between the two. But
this whole like standing in Verica's vain thing really worries
me because as I'm reading all of this research for
this episode. Kristin I was like, we have standing desks,
oh lord, But to be fair, like we tele a
(06:19):
work also, we sit down for lunch breaks, we sit
down for meetings. So there it's like a lot of
sitting and standing like a Greek wedding. It's not necessarily
all just standing all day long. I think I make
up for it in my like Netflix binge sessions. Yeah. Well,
the thing is like we're failing ourselves either way because
you shouldn't stand all day, but you also shouldn't sit
(06:40):
all day, Like, there needs to be movements. So I
don't know, I don't know. Maybe like get a walking
desk treadmill type of thing and and watch your Netflix
that way, or maybe get a kiddie pool. Maybe we
should just be in water more. We should be swimming
and swimming desks. There we go for the waterproof laptops. Um,
(07:01):
but back to history, back back to the chime before laptops.
In sixteen o three, a super smart gentleman named Hieronymous
Fabricius talk about it, pretty snazzy name. He suspected a
vain valve issue was to blame, and that was a
pretty savvy observation. As we'll explain in just a minute,
(07:24):
But if you had vericose veins during the Middle Ages,
the kind of treatments that you might undergo would include
blood letting, cauterization, and very similar to compression tights and
stockings that you might wear today. They would wear lace
up leather stockings, so like or like you're going to
(07:46):
a leather bar. Yeah. Yeah, So that's that's something that
we could still technically do today if we wanted. They
were very on trend, and not surprisingly in more recent times,
as treat technology has improved beyond laced up leather stockings
and blood letting with things like laser treatments and scleropathy,
(08:08):
numbers of people seeking treatments for spider veins and vericoast
veins have only escalated, according to stats from the American
Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. And they're super common. That's
the thing about vericoast veins. Of women and fort of
men have some type of vein issue. Yeah, and that's
(08:32):
coming from the Department of Health and Human Services Office
on Women's Health. And up to seventy of men and
women develop spider veins, which these tend to emerge in
your forties or fifties, although hello, let's talk about me,
about of us will develop spider veins in our twenties
and thirties. And so like, as I'm reading all this stuff,
(08:54):
I did look at my legs because they tend to
form on your calves, like the back of your legs
or whatever. And I noticed like a like a blue
a little blue, teeny tiny thread like squiggle on the
back of my leg. Because spider veins don't necessarily have
to be red, they can also be blue. Saying that
very coast veins and uh yeah, it's very tiny. It's
(09:18):
like it's like a couple of millimeters long. Um. And
I immediately was like I should run around the block
or get into that kiddie pool with my lace up
leather pants. There you go, there you go. So, what's
up with the very coast veins? How are they caused
so quick? Anatomy lesson just for a refresher. Our veins
(09:42):
job is to carry blood back to the heart and
lungs for recirculation. So in the process, our foot and
leg muscles have to work really hard because they're working
coins gravity to help pump that blood back up and
we have these tiny valves in the veins open up
that allow the blood to flow towards the heart and
(10:02):
then close behind it to prevent the blood from me like, oh,
I'm gonna just cruise on back down there and flow
backward and pool. But sometimes those valves and our vein
walls can weaken, and this leads to blood leaking back
and collecting and vericose veins forming there's totally nothing gross
(10:22):
about that. I totally had no problem reading about pooling
blood Kristen in these sources. And so speaking of hormones,
as you might imagine, pregnancy has an effect on this
stuff as well. So during pregnancy, you've got more blood
going through you, you've got greater blood pressure. This is
(10:43):
exerting more pressure on your blood vessels, as you might imagine.
But then you've got the one to punch of the
progesterone relaxing your blood vessels. So suddenly boom, you've got
pregnancy induced vericas veins. And the good news is is
that pregnancy related vericas and spider veins do tend to
(11:03):
fade over time post baby, but they can also get
worse with each successive pregnancy, which I do wonder whether
that is partially why my mom had such a hard
time with vercas veins because I was her fifth child.
My mom worked so hard. Yeah, I wonder because my
(11:23):
mom was one of five. So I wonder if her
mom had him. I have no idea, but my mom
she only had me, but she does stand all the
time for her job as a flight attendant. Well, and
if her mom had him, And there's definitely an hereditary
link to Yeah, it's an escapable let's all just get
to priff. But in addition to these naturally occurring hormones
(11:45):
and pregnancy, women might also be more predisposed to developing
very coast and spider veins because of things like wearing
high heels for extended periods of time. That's linked to
both vericoas and spider veins. And we're really talking about
the higher heels and we just weren't like a kitten heel.
It's not so bad, but and it's adorable, but those
(12:08):
high heels aren't terrific for our circulation. Surprise. Yeah, high
heels in general not not so great for your physical being. Um. Also,
birth control hormones. Hello, the hormone fund never stops. As
a human person, because you know, we mentioned estrogen and
progestine weakening those vein walls, so people who take birth
(12:31):
control more likely to have verkas veins. But for some
quick myth busting relevant to a number of stuff I've
never told you listeners and myself who have tattoos and
want to get more tattoos, even if you have vericas veins,
you can still get them. That was an old myth
that like if you have ercas veins and you shouldn't
(12:53):
get tattoos, and assuming because of issues with needles and
blood and all of that, was there an assumption to
that that tattoos could contribute to vericas veins because that's
also false. Yeah, just in case you were worried, it
was probably just your mom telling me, trying to scare
you out of getting a tattoo. Stuff your mom might
have told you stuff your mom's scaremongered, Yeah, into you.
(13:18):
But vericoast veins don't just develop on your legs and feet,
even though we've talked a lot about our foot muscles
and calf muscles and all of the blood pressure and
vein valve weakening that happens in that area. But friends,
this was the most shocking aspect of this research. I'd
(13:40):
never heard of this before. This is coming from the
Mayo Clinic. You can develop vercoast veins in your volva. Yeah,
they're called vulver variscosities. Yeah, And like ver coast fans
on your legs, they tend to develop during pregnancy. Again
because cause of that additional blood volume that you produce
(14:03):
during pregnancy to nourish the developing fetus and the pressure
that that developing baby put on your pelvis and your volva,
and the veins might end up bulging. But even if
you don't, you'll probably feel it. Even if you can't
see them, you might know that you have them if
(14:26):
your doctor hasn't caught them before you do well, because
it's not just on the volva either, Kristen, I didn't
realize that hemrhoids, which a lot of pregnant women experience,
that's a varicos vein issue as well, because there's so
much pressure on the lower half of your body and
those same hormones and that same blood pressure is working.
(14:46):
So if you develop vulver vari scosities, you also might
get hemorrhoids. And if you have vulvari scosities, you will
probably feel a fullness and rusher and painful swelling in
the vulver area. No surprise, sex is very painful. Standing
and exercising only aggravates the problem as well. So what's
(15:10):
the person with vulver vericosity is to do. Get yourself
to an antique store and buy yourself an old school
minstrel belt. It's that simple, people, so simple. Yeah. Before
uh Maxi pads came conveniently with adhesive on the bottom,
we would use menstrul belts to hold up our our
(15:34):
period diapers, and doctors used to recommend wearing pads with
supportive menstrul belts to offer some compression in that area
in the same way that you know compression stockings can
relieve some of the symptoms of hir coast veins in
your legs. Sure, yeah, and now you know the same concept,
(15:57):
just minus the belt. Can just go get like a
whole bunch of pads and stick them in your pregnancy
skinny jeans and I'm sure that will be fine and comfortable. Yeah.
The article in over at Mayo Clinic said that it
would take six Maxi pads today to give you any
kind of supportive relief. But there are specially designed support garments. UM,
(16:22):
and also things that you can do like not standing
too much prop up your legs, which you know what
I say, if you're a pregnant person, you should be
propping up your legs all the time anyway, because you
deserve it. UM. Swimming helps because it relieves that pressure.
And also I sing your volva might help as well.
That's just like I felt myself get colder. Yeah, and
(16:43):
I also realized, I don't think I've ever said the
phrase I see your volva could be a new cocktail
idea where our new catchphrase stuff I've never told. It's
a way for us to tell each other to calm down, listen,
just go ice your volvo. Why don't you So when
we're talking about vericast veins that typically develop in your
feet and legs, what are the symptoms you mentioned, Caroline?
(17:08):
The coloring, Yeah, so they can be dark, purple or blue,
and that is because this is unoxygenated blood. Uh, they're bulging.
They have sort of a gnarled appearance, almost like a
tree root. I hope I'm not making this worse for people. Um,
but physically you might feel achiness, burning sensations, muscle cramping
(17:30):
and itchiness around veins. You also might experience skin ulcers
around the ankle. However, people, this is a possible sign
of vascular disease, so make sure you get thee to
a doctor a SAP if this is what you're experiencing now.
When it comes to spider veins, these are a mild
variation of vericast veins, but they aren't actually veins. Their
(17:53):
blood that's leaked out of broken capillaries near the skin
surface and discolors that tissue, and they typically show up
on the legs, but they can also develop on your face,
which I did not know. Yeah, And they tend to
be red or blue, and they're typically, according to your
health provider, just considered a cosmetic issue, although they could
(18:15):
indicate circulatory problems, which is why I'm constantly nagging my
mother if we want to give out to the complaining
episode and nagging, nagging my mother to go back to
the doctor to try to figure out her vein issues.
But so, then, what causes spider veins to happen? Well,
when it comes to spider veins and vericoas veins, the
(18:37):
root of the issue could be all sorts of things.
Circulation problems, not surprisingly hormone changes. We've already talked about
estrogen and progestine, so I think puberty, pregnancy, menopause, sun damage,
obesity can lead to them as well, because extra weight
will put additional pressure on your veins. A sedentary lifestyle,
(18:59):
which I and is linked to the poor circulation issue,
and age. The older that we get, the weaker our
vein valves become, which makes me sad for my for
my aging vein valves. You know, I'm sure they appreciate
your sympathy, Thank you. Quiet. And then there's kind of
(19:20):
the inescapable stuff well, like age, but also genetics you
might just inherit genes that might predispose you to weaker
vein walls and weaker valves. And of course things like stress,
smoking and drinking don't help either. These things that cause
inflammation and the body, they can contribute to weakening walls
(19:42):
as well. Yeah, apparently stress is a huge environmental factor
for this and so many things. The more I read
about the impact of stress, Caroline, the more stressed out
to become about my level of stress, because I feel
like I am just setting myself up for all sorts
of health problems. Yeah, we basically we all just need
to calm down. We need to ice our volvas so
(20:04):
to speak. I mean I'm including everyone, this is it's
just a turn of phrase. Yes, so ice your volva
so to speak, if you will, if you will, and
we can all relax, like a deep breath and relax.
Because speaking of which, what kind of self care can
we do to assist with vericose veins and spider vein issues?
(20:26):
So put on those compression stockings, ladies and gentlemen um
and they're different. I mean, they're different strengths basically. I
mean it's everything from stockings you get at the drug store,
which are sort of like a one pressure fits all
kind of thing. They're not incredibly compressed all the way
up to uh literally prescription strength compression stockings that you
(20:49):
can get from your dermatologists. I wonder if those are
at all related to the compression socks and gear that
you're seeing more and more runners and athletes wearing. I
would think, so, she says, based on almost nothing. Yeah,
I'm just curious, listeners, if you if you have any
hunches on that, please let me know, because I'm wondering
(21:11):
if you could get a two for be like, well,
I'm going to just get my compression socks from a
jogging and also will it improve your circulation? You should
just get like a full body, like long underwear compression
suit to wear under your clothes. Just the spanks unitar
or it could be like or you could you know,
like the tuxedo t shirts. You could have like a
suit painted onto it so you could wear your super
(21:31):
tight compression suit to work. That sounds very flattering. But
here's the thing, people, save your money and don't buy
all of those topical creams and serums and concealers promising cures,
even even fancy vitamin K creams, because topical treatments can't
(21:55):
penetrate deeply enough to do anything. They're not going to
fix the structure of your vein walls are certainly not
your vein valves, So I mean they might moisturize. Moisturize anyway, Yeah, absolutely,
And if you want to use a makeup concealer, if
you are embarrassed about the discoloration, that can happen by
(22:19):
all means my mom my mom goes crazy with the
self tanner as a way to to camouflage. I will
not offer further commentary um. According to Women's Health magazine, though,
horse chestnut oil might help reduce the swelling and redness,
but again, it will not cure the veins. It's just
kind of offering a temporary, temporary assistance. And that was
(22:42):
the first time I had ever heard of horse chestnut oil. Yeah,
I've never heard of it. Yeah, well, not to be
confused with a horse named chestnut oil. But as we
mentioned at the top of the podcast, they're also medical procedures.
There are veins actualist and they're also treatments like sclerotherapy,
(23:04):
which is considered the gold standard. Yeah, so here's what happens.
The doctor injects this chemical cocktail of salt, fatty acids,
and glycerin into the vericos or spider vein. This makes
the blood flow stop and then the veins transform into
(23:25):
scar tissue, and that scar tissue eventually fades. I have
no idea why it would be so painful, But okay,
so this procedure has a success, right, But as my
mother could tell you, it might take. It probably will
take multiple treatments for severe vein issues, and more recently
laser treatments have become more popular as well. But like
(23:49):
sclarer therapy for those severe vericose veins. It will probably
take multiple laser treatments to see noticeable difference as well.
And then you've got this thing called veins stripping. Yeah,
this is when you actually remove part of a long,
superficial vein that's causing the issue. It's an outpatient surgery. Um.
(24:11):
There's also endoscopic surgery for severe cases, and something called
ambulatory flubec to me, which is removing small vericoast veins
through skin punctures. And none of this sounds very pleasant
at all. No, But what does take me back to
the movie Sense and Sensibility Colonel Brandon Rest in peace.
(24:35):
Alan Rickman just passed is leeches? Remember leeches treatment Kate
or Kate Winslet's character anyhow, So I know you're like leeches.
What that's like some crazy outdated therapy that only Courtney
Cox uses. No, doctors in India have successfully used leeches
to reduce major swelling in eighteen vericoas vein patients. Now
(24:59):
here's the deal. So I mentioned earlier that vericos veins
are like blue and gnarly because it's unoxygenated blood. It
hasn't been able to pump back through the lungs to
get reoxygenated. Leeches love that stuff. And there's even a
farm I think it's called like bio farm or something
in England that provides thousands of leeches to healthcare providers
(25:22):
every year. Yeah. I mean this was reported on in
the New Scientists and BBC and other outlets, and I
mean eighteen patients is a pretty small studied population, but
apparently it you know, it could work. But I also
learned reading this that leech saliva has natural anesthetics in it,
(25:45):
so it hurts less when these little buggers bite you
and start sucking out all that deoxygenated blood. You seem
pretty interested in the leech treatment, super interested in this
because I it's so fascinating. We read so much about
these cookie treatments than medical things from history all the time,
and I love that this one is coming back, but
(26:06):
backed by you know, evidence and happy things like science
and stuff, and those lace up leather stockings are just
backed by good fashion sense. My apartment's about to get
so weird. So here's the thing. If you want to
prevent vericos veins and spider veins from happening, well you
can't because genetics and also hormones and things that we
(26:32):
can't entirely stop from happening, also aging, But there are
lifestyle things that you can do to at least delay
them and minimize their severity. And really this has to
do with all of this stuff our moms probably did
tell us about maintaining healthy, active lifestyles. Wearing sunscreen. My
(26:53):
mother is so adamant about me wearing sunscreen, and at
thirty one, I wish I listened to her more. I
do too. I got some super bad sunburns when I
was growing up. Over and over again, me too. But
here's the thing. You can cross your legs. That is
a myth. The external pressure caused by crossing your legs
(27:15):
might cause your veins to temporarily bulge, but it doesn't
cause vericast veins. So next time I see my mom
when it crossed my legs in front of her and
explained science, and you're gonna be like, deal with this
with this and be like, oh god, But it's again,
it's the defective valves or weakened veins that lead to
the vericoast issues. And finally, in case you need another reason,
(27:40):
don't smoke. Yeah, man, smoking is not good for your circulation,
and poor circulation predisposes you too. Vericoast things I'm smoking
is just the worst. Anyway, cut it out. And on
an unrelated note, I also learned thanks to his stuff
when I were told you video I recently made, that
smoking is also linked to breast potosis a k A.
(28:03):
Boob saggage. Whoa, I've literally never heard that word before potosis. Yeah. Well,
then it sounds like you need to get over to
YouTube dot com slash stuff mom never told you I do? Wow?
All right, learning all these all sorts of things. Well, listeners,
we want to learn some things from you. Is anyone
(28:26):
out there dealing with vericas veins and spider veins? I mean,
statistically the answer has to be yes. So we want
to hear from you. What kind of issues have you had?
What kind of treatments have you tried? Out? Mom Stuff
at how stuff works dot com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or
(28:48):
messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages
to share with you right now. Well, I have a
letter here from a listener who would like to remain
anonymous in response to the pair of episodes we did
with a practical wedding founder, Meg keene Uh. This listener says,
when my groom and I began planning, family drama immediately
started to crop up. I feel really gross about my
(29:10):
father giving me away. I find it patriarchal and demeaning.
My fiance feels the same way, which is why he
didn't ask my dad for permission, because quote, it's not
a transaction. We are both fierce feminists, so we have
a lot of opinions about the patriarchal traditions of weddings
in general. But once other people and their feelings started
getting involved, we started kicking around the idea of eloping
(29:31):
at city Hall and then having a wedding later for
everyone else. Our weddings started becoming about other people rather
than about us in our love. So we talked about
it and I laughed it off until I knew that
I was finally getting kicked off my parents health insurance.
I wanted to make sure I could put my fiancee
on my new insurance through work, since he is still uninsured,
(29:53):
and that was the nail in the coffin. While I
was worried that if my parents found out, they would
be heartbroken for getting cut out of something or the
other wedding would just be a sham. We realized that
a second ceremony is still just as important and that
we really just very desperately wanted to be married to
each other. So we went down to the courthouse just
before Christmas and got married about a cute little white
dress and a veil, and we brought two of my
(30:15):
best friends to be witnesses. I have to say it
was absolutely magical. We got Mexican food and Margarita's after
and spend a night in a hotel, and it's been
wonderful being secretly married. This also meant that we didn't
have to deal with anything we thought of as patriarchal,
and it just became about us celebrating our love in
a very tiny and private way. So now that we've
(30:35):
had our Shakespearean elopement, that's what we tell ourselves. It's
taken some of the pressure off of planning the wedding,
but in other ways it's made it harder. There's been
difficult decisions already about venues, and we can't use the
excuse of at the end of the day will be
married because we already are, and I still don't want
to be given away by my father, but he's very
sentimental and it'll mean the world to him, so of
(30:55):
course I'll do it to reconcile myself with the fact
that this is an act of him selling me. We
will not have the officiant do the whole who gives
this woman to be given away? Woman in all caps,
because anyone who says this is obviously a blustering Puritan
judge from six seventy. I've also kicked around the idea
of maybe having my husband's mom walk him down the aisle,
(31:17):
but they have a bit of a contentious relationship, so
I won't make them. But this has already started to
be a wild, stressful experience. I can't even get quotes
on flowers, how much the flowers cost. But I'm very
much looking forward to the wedding despite everything. And ultimately
I think a wedding is a party to celebrate two
people who love each other and want to make that
love legally binding. Patriarchy be damned. She then thanks us
(31:40):
for introducing her to a practical wedding, and so thank you,
anonymous listener, for writing in and sharing your story. And
to answer anonymous is question flowers cost approximately a lot.
Take it for me? So I have a letter here
from Jen, also about our chat with Meg Kane from
a Practical Wedding, She writes, I particularly enjoyed your recent
(32:03):
part one episode on Practical Weddings. Meg Kine is fantastic
and I used her website as a near constant reference
when my wife and I got married in October. I
really enjoyed getting to know the person behind the incredible
website that helped me maintain my standity during the wedding
planning process. Because the Sminty Practical Wedding episodes are primarily
(32:23):
focused on traditional heterosexual weddings, I wanted to offer an
additional resource for LGBT folks who are tying the not.
When my wife and I got engaged, my parents gave
us The Essential Guide to Gay and Lesbian Weddings, which
addressed novel issues that gay couple's face when getting married,
above and beyond the traditional pressures and norms. For example,
(32:44):
one of the sections I loved was on the rs
VP attendance rate. The guide cautioned that the typical r
s v P attendance rate may not apply to a
same sex wedding, and in fact may be much higher
because guests maybe particularly eager to demonstrate their acceptance and
or tolerance. The book is very much in the spirit
(33:05):
of a practical wedding with its acknowledgement of many ways
to do weddings, while also providing some much needed advice
for same sex couples. I wanted to share and hope
you'll help spread the word. Well, thanks so much for
sharing this resource with us, Jen and it's been so
fun hearing folks is responses to a Practical Wedding And
(33:27):
if you'd like to send us an email, Mom stuff
at how stuff works dot com is where you can
send it and for links to all of our social
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learn even more about vericos and spider veins. Cut on
over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com more
(33:51):
on this and thousands of other topics. Doesn't have stuff
works dot com. Yes,
Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From how Supports
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about a health
issue that Caroline, I have reread it over since childhood.
(00:24):
Oh god, what I know. Most children probably don't freat
over very coast veins. But my mom was adamant that
I not cross my legs because of the old wives tale,
as it turns out that if you cross your legs
you'll get very coast veins. Because and I don't know
if she'd be cool with me sharing this with the world,
(00:46):
but she has very coast veins and underwent surgery for them.
It was super painful and really uncomfortable, and she was
always embarrassed about how her legs looked. So she channeled
that insecurity and you know, straight up health concern, loving
health concern to to me. So I've always been nervous
(01:07):
about that. And I'm I just realized that I'm sitting
at the podcast table with my ankles crossed, which is okay,
not one leg over the other. Now, I'm I'm sitting
like a man spreader right now because my I T
band is messed up. So I've got one leg like
way over to the side as a way to try
to stretch it out as I sit for two hours
as we record podcasts. But what kind of surgery did
(01:29):
she have for it? You know, I'd have to go
back and ask her, But I just I remember when
she had it. It might have been a scalare therapy procedure,
which we will explain later in the podcast. But I
just remember. Um I was in elementary school, I think
when she got the surgery, and I remember her being
laid up in bed for a while afterwards because she
(01:53):
couldn't really move around much. And I was very strange
hatting my mom, you know, on bed rest, because she
was such a you know, she was always doing everything.
It was like one of the rare weeks when she
wasn't well. My mom has not vericoas veins, although I
think she has some. My mom has an interesting vascular
(02:15):
thing going on that's on her legs and on her forearms.
And I'm hoping that by virtue of the fact that
we have a large intelligent audience, maybe somebody knows the
answer to this. But her vein problem is more like
spider veins, but they're not spider veins. Literally, no dermatologist
or vein specialists that she's gone to knows what the
problem is because it's all over her legs. It started
(02:38):
in her early twenties in her feet. I have the
same thing starting in my feet when I was in
my early to mid twenties. It hasn't spread yet the
way my mom's has, but it's very interesting. And she
too went and did the square therapy, which is incredibly painful.
And my mom who um, I'll just say that she
(02:59):
has a high tolerance for certain medications. She takes like
three viged in to go get the square therapy done,
and it's still killed her. Yeah, But then the veins
ended up just coming back. I don't know if that's
because what she has isn't true spider or very coos veins,
(03:20):
or if it's just like a totally different condition, or
maybe she's you know, she's not wearing her compression stockings
long enough or what do you think our mom's would
be so annoyed right now if I knew that we
were talking about them, sure my mom would be horrified. Well,
I've also been thinking about very coos veins and spider
veins more recently because I've just been noticing more billboards
(03:44):
around town for like vein specialists. They all say you're
so vain but like nice fun um. So I've I've
always been curious about what they are, because I've known
that they're this this thing that causes discomfort and leg insecurity,
but I've never really known what exactly vericoas veins are.
(04:05):
So now we do listeners, we have, we have facts
a plenty for you, and let's start with some history,
as we often do, because here's the thing. If you
think that sclerotherapy is painful, well it's a whole lot
better than it used to be the old school treatments
(04:27):
for very coast veins, because not surprisingly, vericas veins have
been around in our human bodies since forever. Yeah, they're
cave people with cave veins. Yeah, we have records of
Hippocrates observing ver coast veins, and he thought that they
were more common among Scythians, which were a group of
(04:50):
Eurasian nomads because they rode horses all the time. Yeah, well,
my mother should probably stop riding horses to run her
errand everywhere she's got a grocery store parking, there's never
a space for the horse. There's no trough. It's just everywhere,
so inconvenient. And I don't know that Hippocrates was so
(05:13):
far off, because by the sixteenth century we'd figured out
that there was a link between vericoas veins and standing
too long, particularly standing before kings. And then I'm immediately like,
how long were people standing before kings? What were they
waiting for? I guess you had to like go, like
I'm just picturing Game of Thrones and denies Targarian and
you had to like go request something and wait in
(05:35):
line for like ever. I thought of Game of Thrones too,
and realized how you would be standing there forever. And
of course you didn't have iPhones back then. Like what
did you do? I don't know. I guess you just twitter,
just thoughts, thoughts. Maybe people were more introspective back when
they were developing vericas veins while they were waiting for
the for the king. They also um noted links between
(05:59):
vericoas veins and pregnancy, which are a thing that exists
there there is an actual link between the two. But
this whole like standing in Verica's vain thing really worries
me because as I'm reading all of this research for
this episode. Kristin I was like, we have standing desks,
oh lord, But to be fair, like we tele a
(06:19):
work also, we sit down for lunch breaks, we sit
down for meetings. So there it's like a lot of
sitting and standing like a Greek wedding. It's not necessarily
all just standing all day long. I think I make
up for it in my like Netflix binge sessions. Yeah. Well,
the thing is like we're failing ourselves either way because
you shouldn't stand all day, but you also shouldn't sit
(06:40):
all day, Like, there needs to be movements. So I
don't know, I don't know. Maybe like get a walking
desk treadmill type of thing and and watch your Netflix
that way, or maybe get a kiddie pool. Maybe we
should just be in water more. We should be swimming
and swimming desks. There we go for the waterproof laptops. Um,
(07:01):
but back to history, back back to the chime before laptops.
In sixteen o three, a super smart gentleman named Hieronymous
Fabricius talk about it, pretty snazzy name. He suspected a
vain valve issue was to blame, and that was a
pretty savvy observation. As we'll explain in just a minute,
(07:24):
But if you had vericose veins during the Middle Ages,
the kind of treatments that you might undergo would include
blood letting, cauterization, and very similar to compression tights and
stockings that you might wear today. They would wear lace
up leather stockings, so like or like you're going to
(07:46):
a leather bar. Yeah. Yeah, So that's that's something that
we could still technically do today if we wanted. They
were very on trend, and not surprisingly in more recent times,
as treat technology has improved beyond laced up leather stockings
and blood letting with things like laser treatments and scleropathy,
(08:08):
numbers of people seeking treatments for spider veins and vericoast
veins have only escalated, according to stats from the American
Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. And they're super common. That's
the thing about vericoast veins. Of women and fort of
men have some type of vein issue. Yeah, and that's
(08:32):
coming from the Department of Health and Human Services Office
on Women's Health. And up to seventy of men and
women develop spider veins, which these tend to emerge in
your forties or fifties, although hello, let's talk about me,
about of us will develop spider veins in our twenties
and thirties. And so like, as I'm reading all this stuff,
(08:54):
I did look at my legs because they tend to
form on your calves, like the back of your legs
or whatever. And I noticed like a like a blue
a little blue, teeny tiny thread like squiggle on the
back of my leg. Because spider veins don't necessarily have
to be red, they can also be blue. Saying that
very coast veins and uh yeah, it's very tiny. It's
(09:18):
like it's like a couple of millimeters long. Um. And
I immediately was like I should run around the block
or get into that kiddie pool with my lace up
leather pants. There you go, there you go. So, what's
up with the very coast veins? How are they caused
so quick? Anatomy lesson just for a refresher. Our veins
(09:42):
job is to carry blood back to the heart and
lungs for recirculation. So in the process, our foot and
leg muscles have to work really hard because they're working
coins gravity to help pump that blood back up and
we have these tiny valves in the veins open up
that allow the blood to flow towards the heart and
(10:02):
then close behind it to prevent the blood from me like, oh,
I'm gonna just cruise on back down there and flow
backward and pool. But sometimes those valves and our vein
walls can weaken, and this leads to blood leaking back
and collecting and vericose veins forming there's totally nothing gross
(10:22):
about that. I totally had no problem reading about pooling
blood Kristen in these sources. And so speaking of hormones,
as you might imagine, pregnancy has an effect on this
stuff as well. So during pregnancy, you've got more blood
going through you, you've got greater blood pressure. This is
(10:43):
exerting more pressure on your blood vessels, as you might imagine.
But then you've got the one to punch of the
progesterone relaxing your blood vessels. So suddenly boom, you've got
pregnancy induced vericas veins. And the good news is is
that pregnancy related vericas and spider veins do tend to
(11:03):
fade over time post baby, but they can also get
worse with each successive pregnancy, which I do wonder whether
that is partially why my mom had such a hard
time with vercas veins because I was her fifth child.
My mom worked so hard. Yeah, I wonder because my
(11:23):
mom was one of five. So I wonder if her
mom had him. I have no idea, but my mom
she only had me, but she does stand all the
time for her job as a flight attendant. Well, and
if her mom had him, And there's definitely an hereditary
link to Yeah, it's an escapable let's all just get
to priff. But in addition to these naturally occurring hormones
(11:45):
and pregnancy, women might also be more predisposed to developing
very coast and spider veins because of things like wearing
high heels for extended periods of time. That's linked to
both vericoas and spider veins. And we're really talking about
the higher heels and we just weren't like a kitten heel.
It's not so bad, but and it's adorable, but those
(12:08):
high heels aren't terrific for our circulation. Surprise. Yeah, high
heels in general not not so great for your physical being. Um. Also,
birth control hormones. Hello, the hormone fund never stops. As
a human person, because you know, we mentioned estrogen and
progestine weakening those vein walls, so people who take birth
(12:31):
control more likely to have verkas veins. But for some
quick myth busting relevant to a number of stuff I've
never told you listeners and myself who have tattoos and
want to get more tattoos, even if you have vericas veins,
you can still get them. That was an old myth
that like if you have ercas veins and you shouldn't
(12:53):
get tattoos, and assuming because of issues with needles and
blood and all of that, was there an assumption to
that that tattoos could contribute to vericas veins because that's
also false. Yeah, just in case you were worried, it
was probably just your mom telling me, trying to scare
you out of getting a tattoo. Stuff your mom might
have told you stuff your mom's scaremongered, Yeah, into you.
(13:18):
But vericoast veins don't just develop on your legs and feet,
even though we've talked a lot about our foot muscles
and calf muscles and all of the blood pressure and
vein valve weakening that happens in that area. But friends,
this was the most shocking aspect of this research. I'd
(13:40):
never heard of this before. This is coming from the
Mayo Clinic. You can develop vercoast veins in your volva. Yeah,
they're called vulver variscosities. Yeah, And like ver coast fans
on your legs, they tend to develop during pregnancy. Again
because cause of that additional blood volume that you produce
(14:03):
during pregnancy to nourish the developing fetus and the pressure
that that developing baby put on your pelvis and your volva,
and the veins might end up bulging. But even if
you don't, you'll probably feel it. Even if you can't
see them, you might know that you have them if
(14:26):
your doctor hasn't caught them before you do well, because
it's not just on the volva either, Kristen, I didn't
realize that hemrhoids, which a lot of pregnant women experience,
that's a varicos vein issue as well, because there's so
much pressure on the lower half of your body and
those same hormones and that same blood pressure is working.
(14:46):
So if you develop vulver vari scosities, you also might
get hemorrhoids. And if you have vulvari scosities, you will
probably feel a fullness and rusher and painful swelling in
the vulver area. No surprise, sex is very painful. Standing
and exercising only aggravates the problem as well. So what's
(15:10):
the person with vulver vericosity is to do. Get yourself
to an antique store and buy yourself an old school
minstrel belt. It's that simple, people, so simple. Yeah. Before
uh Maxi pads came conveniently with adhesive on the bottom,
we would use menstrul belts to hold up our our
(15:34):
period diapers, and doctors used to recommend wearing pads with
supportive menstrul belts to offer some compression in that area
in the same way that you know compression stockings can
relieve some of the symptoms of hir coast veins in
your legs. Sure, yeah, and now you know the same concept,
(15:57):
just minus the belt. Can just go get like a
whole bunch of pads and stick them in your pregnancy
skinny jeans and I'm sure that will be fine and comfortable. Yeah.
The article in over at Mayo Clinic said that it
would take six Maxi pads today to give you any
kind of supportive relief. But there are specially designed support garments. UM,
(16:22):
and also things that you can do like not standing
too much prop up your legs, which you know what
I say, if you're a pregnant person, you should be
propping up your legs all the time anyway, because you
deserve it. UM. Swimming helps because it relieves that pressure.
And also I sing your volva might help as well.
That's just like I felt myself get colder. Yeah, and
(16:43):
I also realized, I don't think I've ever said the
phrase I see your volva could be a new cocktail
idea where our new catchphrase stuff I've never told. It's
a way for us to tell each other to calm down, listen,
just go ice your volvo. Why don't you So when
we're talking about vericast veins that typically develop in your
feet and legs, what are the symptoms you mentioned, Caroline?
(17:08):
The coloring, Yeah, so they can be dark, purple or blue,
and that is because this is unoxygenated blood. Uh, they're bulging.
They have sort of a gnarled appearance, almost like a
tree root. I hope I'm not making this worse for people. Um,
but physically you might feel achiness, burning sensations, muscle cramping
(17:30):
and itchiness around veins. You also might experience skin ulcers
around the ankle. However, people, this is a possible sign
of vascular disease, so make sure you get thee to
a doctor a SAP if this is what you're experiencing now.
When it comes to spider veins, these are a mild
variation of vericast veins, but they aren't actually veins. Their
(17:53):
blood that's leaked out of broken capillaries near the skin
surface and discolors that tissue, and they typically show up
on the legs, but they can also develop on your face,
which I did not know. Yeah, And they tend to
be red or blue, and they're typically, according to your
health provider, just considered a cosmetic issue, although they could
(18:15):
indicate circulatory problems, which is why I'm constantly nagging my
mother if we want to give out to the complaining
episode and nagging, nagging my mother to go back to
the doctor to try to figure out her vein issues.
But so, then, what causes spider veins to happen? Well,
when it comes to spider veins and vericoas veins, the
(18:37):
root of the issue could be all sorts of things.
Circulation problems, not surprisingly hormone changes. We've already talked about
estrogen and progestine, so I think puberty, pregnancy, menopause, sun damage,
obesity can lead to them as well, because extra weight
will put additional pressure on your veins. A sedentary lifestyle,
(18:59):
which I and is linked to the poor circulation issue,
and age. The older that we get, the weaker our
vein valves become, which makes me sad for my for
my aging vein valves. You know, I'm sure they appreciate
your sympathy, Thank you. Quiet. And then there's kind of
(19:20):
the inescapable stuff well, like age, but also genetics you
might just inherit genes that might predispose you to weaker
vein walls and weaker valves. And of course things like stress,
smoking and drinking don't help either. These things that cause
inflammation and the body, they can contribute to weakening walls
(19:42):
as well. Yeah, apparently stress is a huge environmental factor
for this and so many things. The more I read
about the impact of stress, Caroline, the more stressed out
to become about my level of stress, because I feel
like I am just setting myself up for all sorts
of health problems. Yeah, we basically we all just need
to calm down. We need to ice our volvas so
(20:04):
to speak. I mean I'm including everyone, this is it's
just a turn of phrase. Yes, so ice your volva
so to speak, if you will, if you will, and
we can all relax, like a deep breath and relax.
Because speaking of which, what kind of self care can
we do to assist with vericose veins and spider vein issues?
(20:26):
So put on those compression stockings, ladies and gentlemen um
and they're different. I mean, they're different strengths basically. I
mean it's everything from stockings you get at the drug store,
which are sort of like a one pressure fits all
kind of thing. They're not incredibly compressed all the way
up to uh literally prescription strength compression stockings that you
(20:49):
can get from your dermatologists. I wonder if those are
at all related to the compression socks and gear that
you're seeing more and more runners and athletes wearing. I
would think, so, she says, based on almost nothing. Yeah,
I'm just curious, listeners, if you if you have any
hunches on that, please let me know, because I'm wondering
(21:11):
if you could get a two for be like, well,
I'm going to just get my compression socks from a
jogging and also will it improve your circulation? You should
just get like a full body, like long underwear compression
suit to wear under your clothes. Just the spanks unitar
or it could be like or you could you know,
like the tuxedo t shirts. You could have like a
suit painted onto it so you could wear your super
(21:31):
tight compression suit to work. That sounds very flattering. But
here's the thing, people, save your money and don't buy
all of those topical creams and serums and concealers promising cures,
even even fancy vitamin K creams, because topical treatments can't
(21:55):
penetrate deeply enough to do anything. They're not going to
fix the structure of your vein walls are certainly not
your vein valves, So I mean they might moisturize. Moisturize anyway, Yeah, absolutely,
And if you want to use a makeup concealer, if
you are embarrassed about the discoloration, that can happen by
(22:19):
all means my mom my mom goes crazy with the
self tanner as a way to to camouflage. I will
not offer further commentary um. According to Women's Health magazine, though,
horse chestnut oil might help reduce the swelling and redness,
but again, it will not cure the veins. It's just
kind of offering a temporary, temporary assistance. And that was
(22:42):
the first time I had ever heard of horse chestnut oil. Yeah,
I've never heard of it. Yeah, well, not to be
confused with a horse named chestnut oil. But as we
mentioned at the top of the podcast, they're also medical procedures.
There are veins actualist and they're also treatments like sclerotherapy,
(23:04):
which is considered the gold standard. Yeah, so here's what happens.
The doctor injects this chemical cocktail of salt, fatty acids,
and glycerin into the vericos or spider vein. This makes
the blood flow stop and then the veins transform into
(23:25):
scar tissue, and that scar tissue eventually fades. I have
no idea why it would be so painful, But okay,
so this procedure has a success, right, But as my
mother could tell you, it might take. It probably will
take multiple treatments for severe vein issues, and more recently
laser treatments have become more popular as well. But like
(23:49):
sclarer therapy for those severe vericose veins. It will probably
take multiple laser treatments to see noticeable difference as well.
And then you've got this thing called veins stripping. Yeah,
this is when you actually remove part of a long,
superficial vein that's causing the issue. It's an outpatient surgery. Um.
(24:11):
There's also endoscopic surgery for severe cases, and something called
ambulatory flubec to me, which is removing small vericoast veins
through skin punctures. And none of this sounds very pleasant
at all. No, But what does take me back to
the movie Sense and Sensibility Colonel Brandon Rest in peace.
(24:35):
Alan Rickman just passed is leeches? Remember leeches treatment Kate
or Kate Winslet's character anyhow, So I know you're like leeches.
What that's like some crazy outdated therapy that only Courtney
Cox uses. No, doctors in India have successfully used leeches
to reduce major swelling in eighteen vericoas vein patients. Now
(24:59):
here's the deal. So I mentioned earlier that vericos veins
are like blue and gnarly because it's unoxygenated blood. It
hasn't been able to pump back through the lungs to
get reoxygenated. Leeches love that stuff. And there's even a
farm I think it's called like bio farm or something
in England that provides thousands of leeches to healthcare providers
(25:22):
every year. Yeah. I mean this was reported on in
the New Scientists and BBC and other outlets, and I
mean eighteen patients is a pretty small studied population, but
apparently it you know, it could work. But I also
learned reading this that leech saliva has natural anesthetics in it,
(25:45):
so it hurts less when these little buggers bite you
and start sucking out all that deoxygenated blood. You seem
pretty interested in the leech treatment, super interested in this
because I it's so fascinating. We read so much about
these cookie treatments than medical things from history all the time,
and I love that this one is coming back, but
(26:06):
backed by you know, evidence and happy things like science
and stuff, and those lace up leather stockings are just
backed by good fashion sense. My apartment's about to get
so weird. So here's the thing. If you want to
prevent vericos veins and spider veins from happening, well you
can't because genetics and also hormones and things that we
(26:32):
can't entirely stop from happening, also aging, But there are
lifestyle things that you can do to at least delay
them and minimize their severity. And really this has to
do with all of this stuff our moms probably did
tell us about maintaining healthy, active lifestyles. Wearing sunscreen. My
(26:53):
mother is so adamant about me wearing sunscreen, and at
thirty one, I wish I listened to her more. I
do too. I got some super bad sunburns when I
was growing up. Over and over again, me too. But
here's the thing. You can cross your legs. That is
a myth. The external pressure caused by crossing your legs
(27:15):
might cause your veins to temporarily bulge, but it doesn't
cause vericast veins. So next time I see my mom
when it crossed my legs in front of her and
explained science, and you're gonna be like, deal with this
with this and be like, oh god, But it's again,
it's the defective valves or weakened veins that lead to
the vericoast issues. And finally, in case you need another reason,
(27:40):
don't smoke. Yeah, man, smoking is not good for your circulation,
and poor circulation predisposes you too. Vericoast things I'm smoking
is just the worst. Anyway, cut it out. And on
an unrelated note, I also learned thanks to his stuff
when I were told you video I recently made, that
smoking is also linked to breast potosis a k A.
(28:03):
Boob saggage. Whoa, I've literally never heard that word before potosis. Yeah. Well,
then it sounds like you need to get over to
YouTube dot com slash stuff mom never told you I do? Wow?
All right, learning all these all sorts of things. Well, listeners,
we want to learn some things from you. Is anyone
(28:26):
out there dealing with vericas veins and spider veins? I mean,
statistically the answer has to be yes. So we want
to hear from you. What kind of issues have you had?
What kind of treatments have you tried? Out? Mom Stuff
at how stuff works dot com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or
(28:48):
messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages
to share with you right now. Well, I have a
letter here from a listener who would like to remain
anonymous in response to the pair of episodes we did
with a practical wedding founder, Meg keene Uh. This listener says,
when my groom and I began planning, family drama immediately
started to crop up. I feel really gross about my
(29:10):
father giving me away. I find it patriarchal and demeaning.
My fiance feels the same way, which is why he
didn't ask my dad for permission, because quote, it's not
a transaction. We are both fierce feminists, so we have
a lot of opinions about the patriarchal traditions of weddings
in general. But once other people and their feelings started
getting involved, we started kicking around the idea of eloping
(29:31):
at city Hall and then having a wedding later for
everyone else. Our weddings started becoming about other people rather
than about us in our love. So we talked about
it and I laughed it off until I knew that
I was finally getting kicked off my parents health insurance.
I wanted to make sure I could put my fiancee
on my new insurance through work, since he is still uninsured,
(29:53):
and that was the nail in the coffin. While I
was worried that if my parents found out, they would
be heartbroken for getting cut out of something or the
other wedding would just be a sham. We realized that
a second ceremony is still just as important and that
we really just very desperately wanted to be married to
each other. So we went down to the courthouse just
before Christmas and got married about a cute little white
dress and a veil, and we brought two of my
(30:15):
best friends to be witnesses. I have to say it
was absolutely magical. We got Mexican food and Margarita's after
and spend a night in a hotel, and it's been
wonderful being secretly married. This also meant that we didn't
have to deal with anything we thought of as patriarchal,
and it just became about us celebrating our love in
a very tiny and private way. So now that we've
(30:35):
had our Shakespearean elopement, that's what we tell ourselves. It's
taken some of the pressure off of planning the wedding,
but in other ways it's made it harder. There's been
difficult decisions already about venues, and we can't use the
excuse of at the end of the day will be
married because we already are, and I still don't want
to be given away by my father, but he's very
sentimental and it'll mean the world to him, so of
(30:55):
course I'll do it to reconcile myself with the fact
that this is an act of him selling me. We
will not have the officiant do the whole who gives
this woman to be given away? Woman in all caps,
because anyone who says this is obviously a blustering Puritan
judge from six seventy. I've also kicked around the idea
of maybe having my husband's mom walk him down the aisle,
(31:17):
but they have a bit of a contentious relationship, so
I won't make them. But this has already started to
be a wild, stressful experience. I can't even get quotes
on flowers, how much the flowers cost. But I'm very
much looking forward to the wedding despite everything. And ultimately
I think a wedding is a party to celebrate two
people who love each other and want to make that
love legally binding. Patriarchy be damned. She then thanks us
(31:40):
for introducing her to a practical wedding, and so thank you,
anonymous listener, for writing in and sharing your story. And
to answer anonymous is question flowers cost approximately a lot.
Take it for me? So I have a letter here
from Jen, also about our chat with Meg Kane from
a Practical Wedding, She writes, I particularly enjoyed your recent
(32:03):
part one episode on Practical Weddings. Meg Kine is fantastic
and I used her website as a near constant reference
when my wife and I got married in October. I
really enjoyed getting to know the person behind the incredible
website that helped me maintain my standity during the wedding
planning process. Because the Sminty Practical Wedding episodes are primarily
(32:23):
focused on traditional heterosexual weddings, I wanted to offer an
additional resource for LGBT folks who are tying the not.
When my wife and I got engaged, my parents gave
us The Essential Guide to Gay and Lesbian Weddings, which
addressed novel issues that gay couple's face when getting married,
above and beyond the traditional pressures and norms. For example,
(32:44):
one of the sections I loved was on the rs
VP attendance rate. The guide cautioned that the typical r
s v P attendance rate may not apply to a
same sex wedding, and in fact may be much higher
because guests maybe particularly eager to demonstrate their acceptance and
or tolerance. The book is very much in the spirit
(33:05):
of a practical wedding with its acknowledgement of many ways
to do weddings, while also providing some much needed advice
for same sex couples. I wanted to share and hope
you'll help spread the word. Well, thanks so much for
sharing this resource with us, Jen and it's been so
fun hearing folks is responses to a Practical Wedding And
(33:27):
if you'd like to send us an email, Mom stuff
at how stuff works dot com is where you can
send it and for links to all of our social
media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and
podcast with our sources, including this one so you can
learn even more about vericos and spider veins. Cut on
over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com more
(33:51):
on this and thousands of other topics. Doesn't have stuff
works dot com. Yes,
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