September 20, 2023 • 57 mins
In the wake of Trump's loss in the 2020 election, he and his cronies attacked two Black women poll workers, Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss, baselessly claiming they had tampered with votes. Bridget Todd breaks down why this was so effective, the online eco-system that amplified it, and the ramifications.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan
never told you your production of iHeartRadio, And welcome back
to Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You know, my voice is like I just realized as
I'm talking to you, my voice went down.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I got by sexy sick voice.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, oh jeez, I almost said welcome back to Samantha
and the intro.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
So this is gonna be fun.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
But it is a momentous occasion because not only is
Samantha back from COVID, we are joined by the splendid,
splendiferous Brigit Todd. Always a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Oh, I'm so happy to be back. I'm happy Samantha's back.
This is your inaugural recordings since being out from COVID.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Feeling, you know, Like I said, I've got the voice,
but I'm telling much better. This is the first time
I've ever had COVID, So that was an experience.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Not cool with your best.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, public service, like, if you can, if you're in
the crowd, do it.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I would recommend it, recommend would recommend.
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
But oh y'all, I didn't get to ask you because
I got to complain a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Oh, that's the benefit of you know, you got to
wait the plus side of getting COVID.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Then the benefit is to complain.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I've been waiting to tell you all the als.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
I almost died complaining and watching lots of TV.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, that was my big when I got COVID. I remember,
like I went to shock at first, and I was like,
but the soup though.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I couldn't need anything hardly. No, Yeah, that's like legitimately
like this sucks.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well that was the because I didn't have like I
sneezed a lot. That was my symptom for like two days.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Was that's so weird. Well, how are y'all? I hope
you were healthy?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Yes, I am good.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I'm getting actually the updated COVID vaccine to day vaccine
because Bridget who unfortunately has technical difficulties and we can't see.
We're going to Las Vegas this week.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
That's right for the iHeart Music Festival. Look out, Las Vegas.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Look out.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Threatening I mean like not like okay.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
We're gonna like do engaging podcasts in your city, Las Vegas,
and look out for that, not.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Like okay, okay, yeah, we're doing some podcasts there. It's
gonna be fun. Samantha is going on a birthday vacation time.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, I am missing out, like the first time in
the years that they asked us to do something.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm going to go to the
opposite but thanks for asking.
Speaker 6 (03:01):
I'll be on the other coast.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I like that, but thanks for asking. But yes, I'm
excited to see Bridget in person. And yeah, I'm trying
to not get COVID there, so we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, because you have more, you have other Plians coming out.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I do.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I'm going to Orlando because I love a good haunted
house and I love the Last of Us and there's
a Last of Us Haunted house, so's.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
It's like Last of Us themed.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah, yes, my god, you're gonna that's that's up all
that's like made in a lab for you, and I know,
I know it is.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I've already seen like TikTok videos that I've had to
send her to like oh my god responses.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
I might die of excitement.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh my god, how are you, Bridget.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
Yes, I'm doing well, looking forward to Vegas. Also hoping
I don't get sick.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Yeah, just I think I just need to like stay
in until my flight, just like, don't leave my house
just because now I'm now I'm like very nervous, but
hopefully it'll be all good. And yeah, I'm excited to
hear more about this last of us haunted house after
you go give us a full report. Oh oh, I
(04:14):
love scary well, I like that. I like titillated. There
there can be a line where it's like too scary,
so it has to be. It's a little bit of
a finding the right balance vibe for me. I enjoy
spooky things. I enjoy hobble mean, I enjoy haunted houses,
but if it's too scary, then I'm like no longer
enjoying it.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
So it has to be just the right mits.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So you don't mind being chased.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
I don't mind being chased. I went to a haunted
house last Halloween, and for some reason, you know, the
like performers who chase you. There was a guy with
a chainsaw who for some reason was like, I'm going
to chase her, and I.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Spent the whole one.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
I spent the whole haunted house. I basically was like.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Like worked out. Essentially, this guy was chasing me the
whole time.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
See I used to dude, there's like a key to
get them to pick you. There's a couple like if
you want them to pick you as the person. And
I used to like play that up because I liked
being scared so much.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
What do you do if you want to be picked?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Uh? There are a couple of things. One of the
big ones is where color. They can see pretty well
in the dark. Another one is I don't usually do
this one, but if you're like really funny being scared,
if you're like really over the top being scared, they
will target.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This is why I don't go to them because I
know my my reaction will say everything and then they'll
pick on me.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And I'm gonna fight somebody.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
You know, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I'm a fight or fight girl and apparently I fight.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Hey, hey, at least you know it.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm not fast enough, it depends.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It depends.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I tip somebody.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I have faith in you.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I'm maneuver my way.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I said that, this is my thing is like if
I would have to do the like trips some I'm sorry,
I would be the villain and set someone up to
I can survive.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Intead.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Old host Caroline and I get along really well because
we have our apocalypse plan is that she's just going
to give up.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So that's my decoy to survive, using her giving.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Up to be a final girl. No matter what, I'm
taking it to the end of this, of this situation.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I'm like, I will not be the minority that gets killed.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I like that. You've got a plan. We have to
make sure I'm with Carolina. I think that's the first plan.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yes, Happylloween.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
We do have a quite horrifying thing to discuss today.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Horrifying or is it like survivor exciting?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Well, yeah, but transition wise, this is a very scary
thing to talk about.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
You gotta play along with my transition.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
That I've lived for. Your masterful transitions are so good.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I will lay awake at night and be like, how
can I do this? Just so you know, there's a
lot of work going on behind the curtains here.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
She's been staring at this waiting for it.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, oh, all the time. But yes, can you tell
us what we are talking about today, Bridget Yes.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
So, folks probably by now have seen in the news
that former President Trump and eighteen of his associates are
facing charges for violating Georgia's Racketeering, Influence and Corrupt Organizations
or REICHO act, basically when you are doing some like
organized crime like mob style activities. Georgia, as I'm sure
(07:44):
y'all know, take that very seriously. And these are related
to schemes to try to keep Trump in office after
he lost the election. So a big piece of these
charges stem from the way that Trump and his associate
Rudy Giuliani basically claimed that two black women poll workers,
a mother daughter duo, Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss had
(08:04):
tampered with votes. Now that has been time and time again,
like on the official record, these women have been cleared
of wrongdoing, and that did not stop Trump and Juliani
from baselessly, repeatedly and publicly putting them in danger by
lying about them. And so I really see this story
as like a culmination of so many of the things
(08:26):
that I talk about on my own pod. You know
what happens when racism and sexism just run unchecked online
and really creates the conditions for dangerous lies about black
women to find a welcome home where they can be
amplified and legitimized. In this case, those lies threatened democracy
for all of us. And so I think that there's
(08:47):
so much really meaty reporting going on about what's happening
with these charges related to Trump, But I think it's
important that the story of these women does not go
overlooked or does not go missed, because at its heart,
it is about how these people used their positions and
their power to baselessly smear like two people who hadn't
(09:09):
done anything wrong. And so I just think their story
and their testibility, it's just important to me to keep
making sure that we really center that and that it
doesn't get lost.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Right because, as we've talked about before, as I am
in Fulton County, that is where I vote a lot
of the times, it's mostly black women who are volunteering
at these voting places and making it run so smoothly
and doing all of these things. And to hear about
this about two people who were wanting to help their
(09:41):
community and did nothing wrong but being used as scapegoats
and that getting amplified in the online space and then
being kind of chased away from it, like, it's really
upsetting because that is such an important job. It's so
important to voting, and it's just just because these guys
(10:06):
are are jerks and liars. We're looking for someone people
that they could blame, that people would get behind them.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Blaming is really upsetting.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Yeah, and you put that exactly right.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I think that I'm really drawn to the humanity of
Ruby and Shay, but it's really it's really not just
about them and their story, because these attacks on election workers,
poll workers who are like largely women, like that's you know,
a thing, So it's definitely gendered. These attacks on them
are also attacks on democracy because if people like, if
(10:41):
you saw the way that Ruby and Shay were treated
and how other election workers were treated, threatened, harassed, lied about, targeted,
why would you want to do that work?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
That work is not well paid.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
It's not work that is like put on a pedestal
or like well protected or given a lot of respect.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
It used to be, and it should be, but I'm
for it's not.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
And so if regular people who are interested in like
just helping our civic process.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Move forward and move smoothly.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
If those people are like, I don't want to do
this work anymore? Would I want to do this? And
the only people who are invested and interested in doing
this work are extremists. It's not good for democracy, and
so it's all like, we'll talk about some of the
findings from how this has impacted elections writ large. But yeah,
if election centers have to close because no one wants
(11:31):
to work them, that means that less people are going
to be able to access those polling places. Polling places
end up shutting down. The wheels of democracy are not
able to move as smoothly as they should, and democracy
is like a pretty tenuous thing. I think I never
really thought about it before, how fragile it is. How
you definitely need things to be moving smoothly, and it
(11:51):
doesn't really take much.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
To have the whole system come crashing down.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Right, to give some context about what Fulton County is,
because we talk about Fulton County and not many of
the people outside of Georgia know what that means. We
have the funny song that talks about that's not Atlanta.
(12:15):
Fulton County is Atlanta, which is heavily populated with a
lot of black votes and largely amount of black communities,
one of the bluest areas, one of the reasons why
we turn blue in the first place, and after all
of the voting rights stuff that happened with our governor
trying to take away so many things, including not allowing
to give out water, not allowing people to sit, all
(12:38):
of these things. It was pointedly for places like Fulton
County again, especially with all the jerrymandrig and such. And
it's quite funny that people who are making such big
threats and pointing at Fulton were not from Fulton. They
are literally from outskirts where other places have been proven
to have campaign election fraud, typically from again Republican side
(13:03):
from the twenty twenty election that we saw, and it
was very, very very targeted for that very reason. They needed,
as you said, to target black women because we know
that for the past decades of election it has been
black women who have turned the votes and really have
made a difference in places like Georgia, which no one
(13:23):
ever saw ever turning blue at.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Any point in time.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
And so it in that context this is a fight.
It literally was a place to start a war when
it came to elections.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
I've always thought it has got to be so exhausting
to live in Fulton County because it's just like it's
you're just trying to live your life and exists, and
all these different institutional forces and like powerful figures are
trying to stop you from doing that at every turn.
And I just can't imagine what it's like to be
to live someplace that it's just like constantly the subject
(13:59):
of conversation and scrutiny and trickery.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
It's just like it's got to be exhausting.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, bridget one of the first conversations you and
I ever had when we met, what's it in twenty nineteen, No,
I guess it was way before then, in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You literally I asked you if you would move to Atlanta,
and you said, we already had our own stuff at Washington.
I don't I don't know if I can do it
again in Atlanta. Yeah, you have to get involved in
you it real quickly, because when you were talking about
Abram's thing at that time, and you were like, I
don't know if I can do that again.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
Yeah, that was my whole thing.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
There was a time where I was like, I think
I might have to move to Atlanta, and just the
idea of like, and not that DC doesn't have its problem,
but it's just like I think I have the energy.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I would have to start again.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I don't know if I can, and rightly so, it
is exhausting. And again because the crux of the work
has been done by the black community, black women. The
organization Fair Fight was created by Stacy Abrams after her
first election, and we know so many things had happened
at that point, and I'm still very bitter about that
(15:08):
point and really caused so much that we did become
a focal point. Georgia, specifically Fulton County became a focal
point to this point that Shay and Ruby got targeted
because they needed to find two people that they can
make as suspicious as possible that is on the side
that has been making this huge turnaround.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
So I'm so glad that you put it that way.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
And this is something that I think has kind of
I would say, gotten missed, but I would say has
just sort of been implied, and I think that we
should just.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Like say it as is.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
I believe that the reason why the attacks on Ruby
and Shay were so effective and like took hold is
because they are black women.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
I think that you're exactly right.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
They needed somebody to pin the Georgia loss on, and
I think that there's it's not a surprise that the
people they would after were these two black women. And
I think that the way that race and gender and
class intersected to make them these these like effective targets
(16:13):
for this kind of smear campaign. I don't think that
we have like fully unpacked what that means and why
it was effective. Even in reporting that I think is
really good, like reporting that I respect, I just think
it relies on us to confront some uncomfortable truths about
our society. And I don't think that we have fully
contended with what happened to Ruby and Shay, why it
(16:33):
was effective, and how it was allowed to be amplified
by people like social media platforms and media outlets and
all of that. So yeah, I just think like it's
something we really got to talk about and something that
I think that we really got to take a lot
of important lessons and truths from. So if folks don't
know Ruby and Shae were election workers in Fulton County, Georgia,
(16:54):
a state that Trump lost in twenty twenty, get ready
for me to say.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
That over and over again, because it is a fact.
So you might recall.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
I'm sure that y'all recall that in Georgia, he Trump
pressured the secretary say to like find votes for him
to rewrite history. Shay had actually been an election worker
in Georgia for a long time. Listening to her talk
about it, she describes it as something that she had
really done in an effort to support her community and
just like something that she felt like was her civic duty.
(17:22):
You know, she has talked about how like her community
has a lot of older black folks in it, like elders,
and that she saw doing this work as an election
worker as part of service to like the elders in
her community. So was really just like wanted to do
her civic good. During twenty twenty, Fulton County was meant
to have a shortage and election workers because of COVID,
(17:44):
so Shae recruited her then sixty two year old mom, Ruby,
a retired nine to one to one operator, to also
serve as an election worker. So this is something that
I think is very sad like. In their testimony, Shay
has talked about how she feels quite a bit of
guilt for recruiting her mother into this work. Of course,
(18:06):
not knowing how could she know that Trump and Juliani
would attack them in this way.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
But she she has described feeling quite a bit of
guilt at.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Getting her mom involved in this, which just really really
breaks my heart.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
When, and I know we're going to talk about this,
but when like the whole family gets drawn into this
thing that you think you're doing. They were doing this
like civic duty, feeling really like, this is what.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
I want to do for my community, and that is
democracy at work.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That is like, oh, I want to make this happen
and it's really important to me and to have that
to feel guilty about that, because there are these other undemocratic,
like maascist forces who threaten and who make you feel
unsafe and make your loved ones feel unsafe. Like it
(19:01):
is heartbreaking, it is it's disgusting that this is what happens.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
It really is.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
And so basically, on December third, twenty twenty, a lawyer
working for the Trump campaign obtained security video of election
night from State Farm Arena in Georgia. So the video
just shows like election workers in general, including Ruby and Shay,
just like doing their jobs right, like nothing untoward is
going on. The lawyer brought the video to the Georgia
(19:28):
State Senate Committee, saying that he thought it showed someone
who had the name Ruby across her shirt somewhere finding
a suitcase of ballots from underneath the table. Now all
of this is just a complete lie. The video just
shows them working normally. The election workers were told to
like pack it up for the night, so they put
the ballots away.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
They didn't put them in suitcases.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
They put them in like the normal ballots where ballots
are always kept. And later in the night they were
told to go ahead and restart the count, don't wait
till the morning, and so that's what they did. The
video is just like normal election worker business. But I
think the presence of like just these two black women
was enough for this person to be like, something's going
(20:08):
on here.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
I need to flag this.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So the video starts making its way online through this
cottage industry of like extremist blogs and media sites. Once
it's in that online pipeline, it's basically everywhere like it
doesn't matter. By the time that it starts making the rounds,
it has already been thoroughly debunked by Georgia Secretary of State.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
None of that matters.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
It's already like in this pipeline and it's going to
be amplified despite the fact that it's already been proven alive.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
So this is where we.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Meet a big vector of lies and like dissemination of
these lives about Ruby and Shay the Gateway Pundit, which
is an extremist right wing media site. Research from the
University of Washington Center for an Informed Public found that
The Gateway Pundit was the second most prolific purveyor of
election misinformation on Twitter during twenty twenty. So they are
(20:58):
like a big source of incorrect, inaccurate information about our elections.
And once they get that video, they publish an article
under the headline huge all caps video footage from Georgia
show suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under table after
all caps supervisor told GOP poll workers to leave tabulation center.
(21:23):
So again that's just like a completely misleading claim. But
the way that they framed it is like we found
this bombshell video evidence of the smoking gun of votes
being hampered with and the election being stolen from Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Which is so hilarious because Fulton County was never Donald Trump,
like it's never been read like everybody else who lives
in Georgia are like what no, wait, and it reminds
me honestly, I watched it for like a few seasons,
but a setup of a Scandal episode actually the grainy
security video where they just like redline something and you're like,
(22:06):
oh my god, there it is and they're like no wait,
they're just boxes.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
What's happening.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
The proof And it's so funny.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
There's a thing that happens online where anything can look
nefarious if it's.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Like grainy video and you write in all.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Caps on it, like any it's just like a video
of people like moving around in an empty office building,
and it's like they're like all caps like busted.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Like anything looks nefarious when you when you frame it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
That way, and then you're like wait for it. You're
like wait, wait for what? Wait for what?
Speaker 6 (22:36):
We look at it?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
See. My My like association with this is ghost videos,
which I don't believe in ghosts, but I watch ghost
videos and they'll be like there it is, and I'm
like where and they'll circle something and I'm.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Like I'm blaming on my eyeside. I'm like it must
be there, like they circle something.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I really don't see anything there, but.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, it's really interesting because obviously all they needed they knew.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
This is why I say it. So the scale video.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
They're like, if we can just pull this video of
these grainy subjects with boxes and then circle the boxes,
people will believe this, and they it worked.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It literally began the like I'm like, wow, this is
a bad like Shonda Rhime's episode. What is happening?
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It truly is, And so the Gateway Pundit continued taking
their nose from a bad episode of scandal.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
They called Ruby out by name.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Ruby is somebody who really likes to wear like she
talks about how she was very proud of her name
before all this happened, and so she likes to wear
personalized shirts and hats and things that have her name
on it. So the Gateway Pundit called her out by name,
writing on the site her name is Ruby Freeman and
she made the mistake of advertising her purse on her
desk the same night she was involved in voter fraud
(23:51):
on a massive scale all caps. Her t shirt says
Lady Ruby and her purse Sesslave Ruby, which is her company.
This is not a smart move. Her company is called
l Ruby's Unique treasures. It's on her LinkedIn page. Maybe
the Georgia Police or Bill Barr's DOJ may want to
pay Ruby Freeman a visit. The article concludes with images
of Ruby over the banner that says crook gets caught.
(24:14):
They play this video on a n N, which is
a kind of I guess you could call it like
a far right news network. And that is really when
it like really blows up. So once the video gets
on to own, that is when Trump starts amplifying it
(24:35):
on his own Twitter, that is when Fox News starts
talking about it, and that is when the campaign of
harassment really gets scary for these women. Just three days later,
after Trump starts amplifying it on Twitter, Ruby calls nine
to one one to report people showing up at her home,
which is terrifying. And I think it's really important to
(24:56):
point out the ways that racism and misogyny work to
fuel these lives. I just do not believe that had
Ruby and her daughter not been black women, and that
if we did not have a digital media climate that
is like ready and poised and willing to validate and
amplify the worst racist lies about black women who we
(25:16):
know are disproportionately harmed by conspiracy theories and disinformation and harassment.
I don't think it would have taken off like it did.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
This kind of reminded me of when we did our
episode on Megan Markle. There was all of this outrage
about like, look, she's making all this money from podcasting,
which is just complete nonsense. But I feel like that
going back to that quote of like, oh she's advertising
her company, Look how crass, Like it just I felt
(25:57):
like there was a through line of you know, for
black women so ready to be like that's disgusting, like
like for.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Things that are totally commonplace, but it's like when it's
a black woman doing it and it's said in this
like manner that is clearly meant to convey like judgment,
it just I mean, people are just willing, like the
Megan and Markle stuff, Like I remember reading like, oh,
she ate avocado toast, Like it doesn't matter what it is.
It's not really about the substance of what she's done,
(26:30):
or her behavior or what she said or anything of substance.
It's just like it's just like pulling from this societal
distrust of her identity. And that's what I think really
helped these attacks on Shay and Ruby take hold.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
I do not think that had.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
They been white women or men that they that these
attacks would have been as amplified and have taken off
the way that they did.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
I just I just don't.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
And and part of the evidence is the way that
the people who were her asking them and attacking them,
we're doing it in a way that is so clearly racialized.
Like Rudi Giuliani in a phone call, he looked at
the tape and he said, these women are quite obviously
surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of
heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's obvious to anyone who's
(27:18):
a criminal investigator or a prosecutor that they're engaged in
surreptitious illegal activity. Again, that day, they're walking around Georgia lying.
They should have been questioned already, They're places of work,
their homes should have been searched for evidence of ballots,
evidence of USB ports, evidence of voter fraud. So he's
accusing these women of passing USB ports back and forth
(27:39):
as if they're vials of cocaine or heroin, which, like,
tell me, that is not meant to be a racist
dog whistle, but in reality, these women were just giving
each other a piece of candy. They were like, Oh,
I had a piece of candy in my hand and
I was passing it to my mom.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
And that's what that like.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
From that totally innocuous movement, Giuliani said that they were
passing USB ports, is that they were vials of heroin
or cocaine, like like, truly, truly beyond the pale of
just delusional lies.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I love that the melting man is the one accused,
and there's so many things that this is. This is
for real. I don't know what's happening, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I have to say in this whole thing that when
I remember what was happening at this point, I don't
think I remembered their names. I just remember people being accused,
and it was specifically two black women that though eventually
the Secretary of State, who got a lot of praise
and he shouldn't have as well as our governor, eventually
(28:39):
started defending them, but not until after they were docked.
It was an interesting setup of like they allowed this
to happen. To see again, at the very least they
stood up, but enough to be like yes, our votes
are fine. There's nothing incredulous about this. There's nothing incriminating
in here after the fact. But during this time, they
(29:02):
didn't do They're like, I remember, like they're just saying
they're investigating. That was that was They kept everything kind
of to the side, not agree, not saying anything, and
until they started getting harassed, their life was being threatened,
and they're like, okay, okay, okay, well now we need.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
To put us up to this.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But they allowed this to escalate to that point again
because they did not care about protecting them either, like
for what they did later shore, But I feel like
there should have been charges for their negligence.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
But hey, yeah, I mean by then, they had thoroughly
internally debunked this video and they quietly released like statements eventually,
but they knew, we know that they knew the entire
time that Shaye and Ruby had done nothing wrong and
they had been investigated.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
And so I'm with you in my book, was just
my opinion.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
You don't get a ton of credit for quietly eventually
being like, actually, they didn't do anything wrong and we've
already to like debunk this video when they were being
like physically threatened by armed psychopaths.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Right, And I think it's obvious that they could see
the evidence. But how racist this was, how sexist and racist,
like how this all came from misogynoire. But they just
couldn't say that because then they would have to say
that their party is exactly what we see them as.
And so therefore they were just quietly defending them, not
(30:29):
truly helping. It's it's obvious also that they allowed those perpetrators,
and I'm going to call them perpetrators at this point,
Giuliani and Trump to continue this tirade even after the
fact that they did not do anything to stop them
from harassing.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
In that the infamous call that Trump made to Georgia's
Secretary of State rad Raethensberger asking him to find votes,
Donald Trump calls Ruby out by name. In that call,
he says, we had at least eighteen thousand that's on
tape them counted very painstakingly, eighteen thousand voters having to
do with Ruby Freeman. She's a vote scammer, a professional
(31:06):
vote scammer, and hustler.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah. So, like he was the head.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Of that party, was calling Ruby by her first and
last name and lying about her and blaming her for
his election laws.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
It's terrifying.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
And again I also think, like to your point, Samantha,
it's complicated to talk about.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
But I think that one of the reasons.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
Why this lie took off the way it did is
because of the visual of Ruby and Shay. Right Like,
sites like Gateway Pundit are really good at knowing what
is going to resonate with their audience, what is going
to stoke something inside them that is going to motivate
them to click and share and have an emotional response.
And if you go back and look at what the
(31:51):
Gateway Pundit was publishing about Ruby and Shay, it is
highly visual. They posted so many images of these women online.
On election night, Ruby and Shay were wearing like blonde
extensions that contrast with their darker complexions. Literally, it's like
how my hair is styled. Right now, I'm wearing I'm
wearing blonde extensions. And they Ruby owned a fashion shop
(32:13):
and so her personal style is like a big part
of how she shows up to the world. She likes
bedazzled shirts, she likes to have her name on her
shirt or her hat. These are people who have a
very distinctive look and I believe the reason why the
Gateway Pundit posted so many images of the women were
basically to be like, look how black these women are look?
(32:34):
How like, look how they look? Because they knew that
these images, these visuals of these black women, they could
say anything they wanted because because they were weaponizing this
already pre existing disdain for black women.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
And so I think that like they knew what they
were doing.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
That is why you see these images used over and
over and over again of them like with like crooked
stamped across their head. I think they I think they
knew that that was going to be what like moved
their audience, and I think they weaponized that to make
this lie stickier.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, it follows along with what Trump has been saying
about Lanta, especially when he was going after John Lewis
before his death.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
He always does this like, oh, if I were in Atlanta,
I would be worried about the crime, like just.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like yeah, he would go after it and trying to
set it up as if it was just this horrible,
stricken place because it was made up of a large
largely black communities, which is like no, that's why it's
so productive and wealthy right now, like, I'm not really
sure what you're trying to point out, because Atlanta is
(33:39):
one of the more successful areas of Georgia.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Huh m.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
And he had been setting that up and that played
right into this whole scandal, because again, here's a woman
who has her own business and she's doing fine, and
it's so well enough that she helps volunteer.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
Yeah, and I think like him and his cronies knew
that like just evoking the idea that that black women
were involved in the vote counting process in.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Georgia would be enough proof.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
I'm putting that in quotes, not like actual proof, but
like their proof that something nefarious was going on. They
basically told their supporters, like, black women were involved in
this voting process, so that should be evidence enough that
that Atlanta or Georgia is like rigged against me.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
I think that was really the argument that they were
trying to imply.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Right, and again it just aims it towards his already base,
who is very loud exactly.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
So, yeah, I think that these attacks really weaponize and
rely on tropes about black women being inherently untrustworthy, which
we see time and time again with things like online
harassment and disinformation.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
So this a'll led to.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Like a flood of really scary racist death threats and
harassment against Ruby and Shay online and folks watched the
January sixth commission their testimony really just like, I think
every American should watch it because.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
It really is.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Horrifying and also heartbreaking to hear them describe what they
went through. But this is Shae talking about what it
felt like to know that her mom was now involved
in this. Shae at her during the January sixth testimony, said,
I felt horrible. I felt like it was all my fault.
Like if I never would have decided to be an
election worker, I could have done anything else, but that's
what I decided to do. And now people are lying
(35:32):
and spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mom. I'm
her only child going to my grandmother's house. I'm her
only grandchild, and my kid is just I just feel
so bad. I felt bad for my mom, and I
felt horrible for picking this job and for being the
one that always wants to help, always there, never missing
that one election. I just felt like it was my
fault for putting my family in this situation. It is
(35:54):
really heartbreaking. Ruby talks about how she had been so
proud of her nickname and her name, Lady Ruby, that's
the name of her business, that she is definitely a
staple in Georgia. Everybody knew Ruby as Lady Ruby, and
she always wore that shirt with her name on it.
And because of all of this campaign of lives and harassment,
Ruby talks about how she once was this like pillar
(36:18):
of the community and now is afraid to use her
own name, her name that she used to wear as
a badge of honor. Like, I get emotional just thinking
about what that would have.
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Been like for these women.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
And how threatening it sounds like that was to their
own sense of identity, their own sense of safety, their
own sense of being able to show up in their
communities that was like really important to them, that was
just taken away because of these people lied. Like it
just really upsets me. H.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, And I think one of the things to keep
in mind too, is that these were two women who
were just trying to help their community. They were not
looking for this, obviously, but weren't looking for like fame
or attention or they were just trying to help their community.
And then it got blown up and it became this
whole thing where now, yeah, you can't use the name
(37:15):
you were so proud of, or you feel guilty about
doing something good for your community.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
But there was like a whole.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Organized effort that ended up getting targeted towards them exactly.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
And so let's talk a bit about who were some
of the players in that effort. So in addition to
the like mixed bag of Trump cronies that you've heard about,
you know, Rudy Giuliani, folks like that, Ruby and Shay
were also being harassed and threatened by a woman named
Trevion Kuti. Trevion was formally a publicist for the R
and B singer slash convicted sex criminal r Kelly, So
(37:51):
she definitely like knows how to pick the men to
associate with. She had some kind of association with Kanye
West at some point point, who you may recall, ran
for president himself alongside Trump in twenty twenty before becoming
a vocal Trump supporter. NBC News it's not totally clear
what her association with Donald Trump is. NBC News reported
(38:14):
that in a biography of her on a website for
the Women's Global Initiative, a business networking group, she identified
herself as a member of the Young Black Leadership Council
under President Donald Trump.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
She says that she was secured.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
As Kanye West's publicist in twenty eighteen and now serves
as his director of Operations. But importantly, Kanye West camp
says that she was not associated with Kanye West. But
Kanye's camp is like, we don't know her there, like
we she is not associated with us, so like don't
know what to tell you. So, in any event, regardless
of whether or not she is truly associated with Kanye
(38:51):
West or Donald Trump, what went down is this Trivion
showed up at Shayan and Ruby's door, and the women,
after being harassed and targeted, understandable just like called the police.
The police show up, and they all end up going
to a police station together to talk. Trivion told them
that she was visiting them at the direction of a
high profile individual who warned that if Ruby and Shay
(39:13):
did not confess to voter fraud, they would be arrested
in forty eight hours. According to Rolling Stone, the body
cam footage of the conversation shows Trivion telling the women,
I cannot say what specifically will take place. I just
know that it will disrupt your freedom and the freedom
of one or more of your family members. You are
a loose end for a party that needs to tidy up,
(39:34):
which is like a real weird thing to tell somebody
to be honest with you, that's like a very weird
thinges say, yeah, so I will say Travion has said, like, oh,
they're getting it wrong.
Speaker 6 (39:45):
I was trying to help these women. That's not a threat.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
So like that's her defense, is that, like she was
genuinely trying to offer support to these women. That's what
she says. You tell me what you what you think.
But like that's her defense. Then she calls a man
by the name of Harrison Floyd of Black Voices for Trump,
puts him on speakerphone, and Floyd says that he can
offer the women protection. But according to that body cam audio,
(40:11):
he said that Ruby and Shay would have to confess
to voter fraud. If she did, he would offer her
legal protection, but if she declined, then her and her family.
Speaker 6 (40:19):
Would be arrested.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
So Floyd worked for the Trump campaign formally as the
executive director of the of Black Voices for Trump, but
he told Rachel Maddow that he sent Trevion to the
Women's House as a private citizen, not as an employee
of the Trump campaign. He also in those calls said
that like he has people that can keep her safe
if she confessed all of that. I should say, like,
(40:42):
I'm including what these people are saying as their defense
or like how they explain their behavior. I don't really
believe any of these people, but like this is what
they said about like why they.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
Did the things that they did.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
So I just think people should know their side of
the story, even though I don't believe any of this.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Again, I just this is such a bad setup of
so many like gang movies.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
That you were like, what is happening? Like this reminds me.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Of what would have happened in Chicago in the early
mob days. Like they create a problem and a threat,
but will protect you if you confess these things. And
you're thinking, at what point does Floyd and Couty not
realize they're bound to be thrown under the bus like
they are the scapegoats now?
Speaker 6 (41:29):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
So yes and Floyd, especially because folks might remember that
when all the other defendants in the Trump Raiko case
got arrested in Georgia, most of them just like bombed
out right away Floyd because when they initially the FBI
initially had like served him at his apartment, they like
(41:51):
he got into some kind of like physical scuffle with
the FBI, and so that led to like a warrant
for his arrest. And so when he turned himself in
for these trump Rycho charges, he actually was not able
to bond out like everybody else was like in and out.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, it was bad.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I didn't realize it was for that, and BT dubs
the Rico charges here in Georgia is partially rachel.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
So it's quite funny to me that they got that.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's complicated.
Speaker 6 (42:23):
But like, I just can't believe I thought this was
a good idea.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
I can't believe that they were like, yes, I will
get myself arrested for this man. I will get like
pretty serious charges for this man. I will break the
law for this man, and that will be fine for me.
That will go well for me. I will be in
their club, I will be taken care of, I will
be protected. I cannot believe that somebody would think that. So, yeah,
just really says a lot about the judgment there I
(42:47):
guess right.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Again, I'm like, there's nothing about this group of people
who would help you as.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
We Yeah, yeah, they have a long history of throwing
people under the bus, going completely broke, right.
Speaker 6 (42:59):
If they're not gonna throw are you under the bus? Yes,
you're not special, I will say.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
One side note is that Trivion KOUTI I think that
people should She's very active on Instagram. I think that
if folks listening are curious for more information about her,
I really implore them to look at her Instagram.
Speaker 6 (43:20):
Her Instagram, I think is.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
Very telling about what kind of person she is, right, So, yeah,
folks are interested in like cause like when I first
was reading about this, I was like, what kind of perth?
Like she SuDS like a interesting person. Let me look
her up. And her Instagram really confirmed that she's someone
who is like hashtag overload, Like every post is like
so like, honestly, I can't really even describe it. I mean,
(43:45):
if folks are curious, they should look her up on Instagram.
And I don't think you will be disappointed at what
you see. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, her association with r Kelly, Because if I know
one thing in Atlanta, black women do not side with
r Kelly, Like that's so rare.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
An event in Atlanta when they played remixed Magnition and
black women were like, boom, turn this off.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
Yeah until the DJ turns it off.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Like yeah, every debate that I've ever seen, uh, and
like it would be on our neighbor pages all of that,
it was always men or white people who were and
white people were smart enough to stay out of it for.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
The most part.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yeah, they were like, Okay, we're not we're not part
of this.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
But every black woman that you saw was going after anyone.
So for her to be a supporter at any point,
you're like, hmmm, really, yeah, that's that's not.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
That's the sign right there.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
So this whole conversation between Trevion and Harrison Floyd and
rubinha went down on January fourth, twenty twenty one, just
two days before January six It honestly sounds like Trump's
associates just wanted to get a forced confession out of
these women as a means to stop the transition of power.
Speaker 6 (45:20):
So on January sixth, when pro.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Trump extremists and goons were storming the Capitol, they were
also surrounding the Women's home with bullhorns, but luckily they
had already fled for their safety. But this is where
it gets even scarier. Trump supporters actually tried to force
their way into Shay's elderly grandmother's home to make a
citizen's arrest. I honestly cannot even fathom how terrifying it
(45:45):
would be to have a mob of angry, potentially armed
people show up at your elderly grandmother's home and with
the intent to force their way in and citizens arrest her. Like,
I don't even I mean, I can't, I don't even
have words, like, I don't even know.
Speaker 6 (46:03):
I can't think of anything more horrifying than that.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Right, Once again, she had nothing to do with any
of the elections, So this is just the hostage at
this point.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Essentially, Yes, and like and I think it goes back
to a lot of the things that we that we
talk about on the show. When we deal with things
like harassment campaigns, it is rarely just the woman. So
it's usually a woman at the center of a harassment
campaign like this.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
It is rarely just that one woman.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
Is It is her and her family, her and her parents,
her and her kids, her and her partner and it's
an effort to I think, terrify women and other marginalized
people from participating in civic.
Speaker 6 (46:43):
And public life.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
If like, I'm one person, if I'm going to face
these kinds of attacks, I wouldn't love it.
Speaker 6 (46:50):
But like, okay, that's me. Fine.
Speaker 5 (46:52):
If it's me and my elderly parents, me and my child,
me and my partner, me and my community, you might
think twice about your behavior if you felt like you
were putting the people that you loved at risk. And
so this is a specific tactic in order to frighten
women out of civic and public life, and.
Speaker 6 (47:13):
I think it's effective.
Speaker 5 (47:14):
It really it's upsetting that it works, but I can
understand why women don't want to put their families at
risk in this way.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
After that election, I volunteered at a few polls, and
I even thought about trying to work at the elections.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
And they were in desperately. They were begging people to come.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
And this was after several of the voter sites had
been shut down by our governor, so they'd already been
transitioned into like maybe four stations out of those six,
and they were trying desperately to find people because they
were having such a struggle.
Speaker 5 (47:49):
Yeah, so that's not surprising to me. It's actually become
a common problem. According to research from the Brendan Center,
nearly one in three local election officials no at least
one election worker who has left the job, partly due
to safety concerns, increased threats, and intimidation. Ruby herself said
that she could never see herself working another election again
for the rest of her life, which again I don't
blame her. In this most recent election, we had a
(48:11):
shortage of poll workers, which of course leads to anti
democratic outcomes like short staffing polling precincts like you just described,
Sam that force people to wait in longer lines to vote.
These shortages of poll workers can also cause some locations
to either close or be consolidated with other polling centers,
making it more challenging for voters to access new polling places.
(48:33):
All of this can lead to disenfranchisement and reduce trust
and elections, especially among communities of color and other marginalized
communities who already face barriers to voting. And so it
is a widespread issue when you go to vote, if
people have been intimidated out of being part of that process,
that is an attack on our democracy, and it harms
(48:56):
all of us, not just the women who are attacked
and find themselves the targets.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Right, and that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I remember voting kind of soon after this for a
local election, and you could almost feel it. You could
feel that everyone was more unsure about about the process
and everyone was more on edge, and at one point,
like the power flickered and you could just see people
looking around like, oh, like I can't trust this anymore.
(49:22):
And the damage that has been done to these specific
women does speak to so much more. It speaks to
this doubt and people not feeling safe to work at poles.
And I think who works at poles, Like, if I
go in and it's like a bunch of kind of
(49:43):
burly white dudes that I might think are Trump supporters,
I'm not gonna feel as good about voting, Like I'm
not gonna feel as safe as about voting. And it's
just like a trickles, it's everywhere. It's got a ripple effect.
We're talking about kind of a specific thing, but it's
such a larger.
Speaker 6 (49:59):
Issue, absolutely, and it's absolutely gendered.
Speaker 5 (50:03):
Eighty percent of election officials are women, so these are
women being attacked and it's harming all of us.
Speaker 6 (50:09):
And it shouldn't be like that.
Speaker 5 (50:10):
When you go to vote, when the lights flicker, you
shouldn't have to worry like, oh no, what's about to happen?
Like this is the foundation in the cornerstone of our
democracy and it shouldn't it shouldn't be like that. Right, So,
we deserve better than a system that is able to
weaponize racism and sexism and lies to disenfranchise us. We
deserve so much better. And you know that kind of
(50:31):
brings us to today. So Ruby and Shay sued the
right wing website The Gateway Pundit and its owners for
defamation he publishing stories that instigated a deluge of intimidation, harassment.
Speaker 6 (50:42):
And threats. And they also settled a suit.
Speaker 5 (50:44):
With one American news network. And honestly, I hope they
get every penny. Hope they get so much money and
then thumb. Earlier this month, a federal judge ruled that
Rudy Giuliani is liable for defaming these women.
Speaker 6 (50:56):
He'll have to pay their legal fees.
Speaker 5 (50:58):
He's already paid about ninety thousand dollars and there's going
to be another trial to determine how much you will
have to pay in additional damages.
Speaker 6 (51:04):
It could be in the millions.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
And so I'm pleased that these women are getting some
semblance of justice. Like, I think that's great, but I
do also think that no amount of money can make
right what they went through. They only wanted to serve
their communities and do civic good during a pandemic, and
the president and his associates put their lives at risk
(51:28):
because of that. You know, they testified and spoke off
about what they experienced and putting themselves even more at risk.
And so what they did was heroic. They are absolutely
American heroes. But black women should not have to be
put in such a great danger for a country that
is going to weaponize their own identities against them, right,
And so yeah, I think that what they did is
(51:49):
really heroic, But I wish they never had to do
that in the first place.
Speaker 6 (51:54):
I wish that they were able to just do their.
Speaker 5 (51:56):
Jobs and live their lives and try to support democracy
they were doing without facing these kind of attacks, because
not only does it hurt them, it hurts us all.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, I hope they get all the money as they deserve.
I'm I'm glad that Guliani actually admitted that he was wrong.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
We shouldn't even have a get to that point.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
Technically, what he admitted was I am so broke that
I can no longer afford to contest these allegations. So
he didn't admit wrongdoing, but he did. He was like,
I don't have the money to continue.
Speaker 6 (52:26):
To contest fees.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
So okay, sure I read that wrong, but then well
believe it. Of that, I'm glad he's.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Getting all his money taken away. That's delightful. And we
know he's never getting any money that he was supposed
to get from Trump, so that's even matter.
Speaker 5 (52:40):
It's like begging Trump to pay his legal his legal fees. Also,
even if Trump was like, I'll pay your legal fees,
he doesn't pay anyway, So like, what does that even
look like?
Speaker 6 (52:48):
Like he doesn't pay his bill.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
I think he actually owes Julianni for the years of
representing him. Uh that like he just doesn't pay, which
everybody's like, you know, that's not a thing, which I
still love to think about the fact people love him
as a businessman Trump and roll them. I'm like, all
his businesses go bankrupt. I don't understand what you're talking about.
Literally in Atlanta, he tried to build a whole apartment
(53:11):
and it went bankrupt.
Speaker 6 (53:13):
It's easy to be a savvy businessman where you just
don't pay.
Speaker 5 (53:16):
Anybody that you owe money to. Like, if I didn't
pay any of my bills, I'd probably be rich.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I love the whole file bankruptcy thing, which he's done
so many times. And he can because he doesn't need credit,
so he's like, I'll just keep borrowing money. Yeah, And
I hate that this is their legacy, Like that's the
thing that I know they did what they had to
do because they're going to protect themselves and protect their
loved ones.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
But the fact that they had to be put.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
To this point going through so much stress and then
just hiding because I remember when they did high. They
later left Atlanta and went to South Georgia, and even
there they're just like what if they find us?
Speaker 5 (53:52):
Yeah, it breaks my heart. My heart goes out to
these women. I think about them often. Yeah, I think
about them a lot. I wish them nothing but peace
and prosperity and abundance for the rest of their lives,
because Lord knows they deserve it.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
They deserve it, and they've done so much, especially for
the state of Georgia with what we're seeing, and we
love to see the fact that thinks in part to
them to coming out and speaking out.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
We get to see mug shots.
Speaker 5 (54:23):
Oh if you if you haven't seen Trevion's mugshot, I
definitely suggest taking a look at that too.
Speaker 6 (54:28):
That's what I'll end there. Just a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
And we should also note that it is DA Fanny Willis,
who is a black woman who really decided like, yeah,
we're not gonna let this sit.
Speaker 5 (54:43):
No, I don't think I knew like much about her
until this, until this started, so like, yeah, I know it.
Speaker 6 (54:51):
Chaps.
Speaker 5 (54:51):
Trump's asked that so many of the people who are
like trying to hold him accountable or black women, I know,
chat ye.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
And he really hoped that Georgia would pull a Florida
where Kemp would kick the DA off. But Camp was like, nah,
I'm not messing with her. You got If I mess
with Atlanta, it might be over for me. And he
realizes that.
Speaker 6 (55:16):
Don't mess with Atlanta because the South's got something to say.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Look, they know that he barely made it buy some Uh,
I'm going to say Gray areas past aprams, but like
Fulton County, will be the one that takes him out
if he's not.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
Careful and you're here a Willis's, she doesn't please.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
We always love having you so much, Fridget. I feel
like we could just go on and on and on
and talk about all these different things.
Speaker 5 (55:44):
This is such a pleasure you always let you always
let me, Like when I've got a b in my
bonnet about something, you all always give me a platform.
Speaker 6 (55:51):
So I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
We love bees and bonnets. Virgets bees and bonnets.
Speaker 6 (55:58):
Oh that's look at that. I had to save that one.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yes, yes, well, thank you, thank you for always being
in delight and doing this research and making sure people
know these important things.
Speaker 4 (56:14):
We know you're very busy, so we really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (56:16):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (56:17):
Where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 5 (56:19):
Well, you can check out my podcast. There are no
girls on the internet. You can find me on Instagram
at Bridget Marie and DC or on Twitter at Bridget
Marie and you can see me and Annie in Las
Vegas if you're there, check come check us out.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
Yes, I will wear not pajamas for.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Are you gonna low key cosplay? Scully? Hello?
Speaker 1 (56:45):
I actually have a friend who cosplays a Scully and
she has the bench. Maybe she'll let me. Okay, that's
a good idea. That's a good idea. Okay, well that's
a spoiler for what we might be talking about. But yes,
thank you, thank you, thank you, bridget. If you would
like to find us, you can. You can emailus a
stuff Adia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
(57:06):
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on
Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told you. We
have a tea public store. We also have a book.
You can get it at stuff you should read Books
dot com or wherever you get your books. Thanks, it's
always to our super producer Christina, our executive ducer Maya,
and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Thank you and I'm sorry, oh no, thanks.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
To you for listening Stuff I've Never Told whose production
of IRT Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the art radio app Apple Podcasts,
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan
never told you your production of iHeartRadio, And welcome back
to Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You know, my voice is like I just realized as
I'm talking to you, my voice went down.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I got by sexy sick voice.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, oh jeez, I almost said welcome back to Samantha
and the intro.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
So this is gonna be fun.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
But it is a momentous occasion because not only is
Samantha back from COVID, we are joined by the splendid,
splendiferous Brigit Todd. Always a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Oh, I'm so happy to be back. I'm happy Samantha's back.
This is your inaugural recordings since being out from COVID.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Feeling, you know, Like I said, I've got the voice,
but I'm telling much better. This is the first time
I've ever had COVID, So that was an experience.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Not cool with your best.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, public service, like, if you can, if you're in
the crowd, do it.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I would recommend it, recommend would recommend.
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
But oh y'all, I didn't get to ask you because
I got to complain a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Oh, that's the benefit of you know, you got to
wait the plus side of getting COVID.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Then the benefit is to complain.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I've been waiting to tell you all the als.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
I almost died complaining and watching lots of TV.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, that was my big when I got COVID. I remember,
like I went to shock at first, and I was like,
but the soup though.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I couldn't need anything hardly. No, Yeah, that's like legitimately
like this sucks.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well that was the because I didn't have like I
sneezed a lot. That was my symptom for like two days.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Was that's so weird. Well, how are y'all? I hope
you were healthy?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Yes, I am good.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I'm getting actually the updated COVID vaccine to day vaccine
because Bridget who unfortunately has technical difficulties and we can't see.
We're going to Las Vegas this week.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
That's right for the iHeart Music Festival. Look out, Las Vegas.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Look out.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Threatening I mean like not like okay.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
We're gonna like do engaging podcasts in your city, Las Vegas,
and look out for that, not.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Like okay, okay, yeah, we're doing some podcasts there. It's
gonna be fun. Samantha is going on a birthday vacation time.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, I am missing out, like the first time in
the years that they asked us to do something.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm going to go to the
opposite but thanks for asking.
Speaker 6 (03:01):
I'll be on the other coast.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I like that, but thanks for asking. But yes, I'm
excited to see Bridget in person. And yeah, I'm trying
to not get COVID there, so we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, because you have more, you have other Plians coming out.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I do.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I'm going to Orlando because I love a good haunted
house and I love the Last of Us and there's
a Last of Us Haunted house, so's.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
It's like Last of Us themed.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah, yes, my god, you're gonna that's that's up all
that's like made in a lab for you, and I know,
I know it is.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I've already seen like TikTok videos that I've had to
send her to like oh my god responses.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
I might die of excitement.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh my god, how are you, Bridget.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
Yes, I'm doing well, looking forward to Vegas. Also hoping
I don't get sick.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Yeah, just I think I just need to like stay
in until my flight, just like, don't leave my house
just because now I'm now I'm like very nervous, but
hopefully it'll be all good. And yeah, I'm excited to
hear more about this last of us haunted house after
you go give us a full report. Oh oh, I
(04:14):
love scary well, I like that. I like titillated. There
there can be a line where it's like too scary,
so it has to be. It's a little bit of
a finding the right balance vibe for me. I enjoy
spooky things. I enjoy hobble mean, I enjoy haunted houses,
but if it's too scary, then I'm like no longer
enjoying it.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
So it has to be just the right mits.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So you don't mind being chased.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
I don't mind being chased. I went to a haunted
house last Halloween, and for some reason, you know, the
like performers who chase you. There was a guy with
a chainsaw who for some reason was like, I'm going
to chase her, and I.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Spent the whole one.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
I spent the whole haunted house. I basically was like.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Like worked out. Essentially, this guy was chasing me the
whole time.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
See I used to dude, there's like a key to
get them to pick you. There's a couple like if
you want them to pick you as the person. And
I used to like play that up because I liked
being scared so much.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
What do you do if you want to be picked?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Uh? There are a couple of things. One of the
big ones is where color. They can see pretty well
in the dark. Another one is I don't usually do
this one, but if you're like really funny being scared,
if you're like really over the top being scared, they
will target.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This is why I don't go to them because I
know my my reaction will say everything and then they'll
pick on me.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And I'm gonna fight somebody.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
You know, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I'm a fight or fight girl and apparently I fight.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Hey, hey, at least you know it.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm not fast enough, it depends.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It depends.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I tip somebody.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I have faith in you.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I'm maneuver my way.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I said that, this is my thing is like if
I would have to do the like trips some I'm sorry,
I would be the villain and set someone up to
I can survive.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Intead.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Old host Caroline and I get along really well because
we have our apocalypse plan is that she's just going
to give up.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So that's my decoy to survive, using her giving.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Up to be a final girl. No matter what, I'm
taking it to the end of this, of this situation.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I'm like, I will not be the minority that gets killed.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I like that. You've got a plan. We have to
make sure I'm with Carolina. I think that's the first plan.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yes, Happylloween.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
We do have a quite horrifying thing to discuss today.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Horrifying or is it like survivor exciting?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Well, yeah, but transition wise, this is a very scary
thing to talk about.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
You gotta play along with my transition.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
That I've lived for. Your masterful transitions are so good.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I will lay awake at night and be like, how
can I do this? Just so you know, there's a
lot of work going on behind the curtains here.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
She's been staring at this waiting for it.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, oh, all the time. But yes, can you tell
us what we are talking about today, Bridget Yes.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
So, folks probably by now have seen in the news
that former President Trump and eighteen of his associates are
facing charges for violating Georgia's Racketeering, Influence and Corrupt Organizations
or REICHO act, basically when you are doing some like
organized crime like mob style activities. Georgia, as I'm sure
(07:44):
y'all know, take that very seriously. And these are related
to schemes to try to keep Trump in office after
he lost the election. So a big piece of these
charges stem from the way that Trump and his associate
Rudy Giuliani basically claimed that two black women poll workers,
a mother daughter duo, Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss had
(08:04):
tampered with votes. Now that has been time and time again,
like on the official record, these women have been cleared
of wrongdoing, and that did not stop Trump and Juliani
from baselessly, repeatedly and publicly putting them in danger by
lying about them. And so I really see this story
as like a culmination of so many of the things
(08:26):
that I talk about on my own pod. You know
what happens when racism and sexism just run unchecked online
and really creates the conditions for dangerous lies about black
women to find a welcome home where they can be
amplified and legitimized. In this case, those lies threatened democracy
for all of us. And so I think that there's
(08:47):
so much really meaty reporting going on about what's happening
with these charges related to Trump, But I think it's
important that the story of these women does not go
overlooked or does not go missed, because at its heart,
it is about how these people used their positions and
their power to baselessly smear like two people who hadn't
(09:09):
done anything wrong. And so I just think their story
and their testibility, it's just important to me to keep
making sure that we really center that and that it
doesn't get lost.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Right because, as we've talked about before, as I am
in Fulton County, that is where I vote a lot
of the times, it's mostly black women who are volunteering
at these voting places and making it run so smoothly
and doing all of these things. And to hear about
this about two people who were wanting to help their
(09:41):
community and did nothing wrong but being used as scapegoats
and that getting amplified in the online space and then
being kind of chased away from it, like, it's really
upsetting because that is such an important job. It's so
important to voting, and it's just just because these guys
(10:06):
are are jerks and liars. We're looking for someone people
that they could blame, that people would get behind them.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Blaming is really upsetting.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Yeah, and you put that exactly right.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I think that I'm really drawn to the humanity of
Ruby and Shay, but it's really it's really not just
about them and their story, because these attacks on election workers,
poll workers who are like largely women, like that's you know,
a thing, So it's definitely gendered. These attacks on them
are also attacks on democracy because if people like, if
(10:41):
you saw the way that Ruby and Shay were treated
and how other election workers were treated, threatened, harassed, lied about, targeted,
why would you want to do that work?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
That work is not well paid.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
It's not work that is like put on a pedestal
or like well protected or given a lot of respect.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
It used to be, and it should be, but I'm
for it's not.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
And so if regular people who are interested in like
just helping our civic process.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Move forward and move smoothly.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
If those people are like, I don't want to do
this work anymore? Would I want to do this? And
the only people who are invested and interested in doing
this work are extremists. It's not good for democracy, and
so it's all like, we'll talk about some of the
findings from how this has impacted elections writ large. But yeah,
if election centers have to close because no one wants
(11:31):
to work them, that means that less people are going
to be able to access those polling places. Polling places
end up shutting down. The wheels of democracy are not
able to move as smoothly as they should, and democracy
is like a pretty tenuous thing. I think I never
really thought about it before, how fragile it is. How
you definitely need things to be moving smoothly, and it
(11:51):
doesn't really take much.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
To have the whole system come crashing down.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Right, to give some context about what Fulton County is,
because we talk about Fulton County and not many of
the people outside of Georgia know what that means. We
have the funny song that talks about that's not Atlanta.
(12:15):
Fulton County is Atlanta, which is heavily populated with a
lot of black votes and largely amount of black communities,
one of the bluest areas, one of the reasons why
we turn blue in the first place, and after all
of the voting rights stuff that happened with our governor
trying to take away so many things, including not allowing
to give out water, not allowing people to sit, all
(12:38):
of these things. It was pointedly for places like Fulton
County again, especially with all the jerrymandrig and such. And
it's quite funny that people who are making such big
threats and pointing at Fulton were not from Fulton. They
are literally from outskirts where other places have been proven
to have campaign election fraud, typically from again Republican side
(13:03):
from the twenty twenty election that we saw, and it
was very, very very targeted for that very reason. They needed,
as you said, to target black women because we know
that for the past decades of election it has been
black women who have turned the votes and really have
made a difference in places like Georgia, which no one
(13:23):
ever saw ever turning blue at.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Any point in time.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
And so it in that context this is a fight.
It literally was a place to start a war when
it came to elections.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
I've always thought it has got to be so exhausting
to live in Fulton County because it's just like it's
you're just trying to live your life and exists, and
all these different institutional forces and like powerful figures are
trying to stop you from doing that at every turn.
And I just can't imagine what it's like to be
to live someplace that it's just like constantly the subject
(13:59):
of conversation and scrutiny and trickery.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
It's just like it's got to be exhausting.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, bridget one of the first conversations you and
I ever had when we met, what's it in twenty nineteen, No,
I guess it was way before then, in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You literally I asked you if you would move to Atlanta,
and you said, we already had our own stuff at Washington.
I don't I don't know if I can do it
again in Atlanta. Yeah, you have to get involved in
you it real quickly, because when you were talking about
Abram's thing at that time, and you were like, I
don't know if I can do that again.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
Yeah, that was my whole thing.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
There was a time where I was like, I think
I might have to move to Atlanta, and just the
idea of like, and not that DC doesn't have its problem,
but it's just like I think I have the energy.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I would have to start again.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I don't know if I can, and rightly so, it
is exhausting. And again because the crux of the work
has been done by the black community, black women. The
organization Fair Fight was created by Stacy Abrams after her
first election, and we know so many things had happened
at that point, and I'm still very bitter about that
(15:08):
point and really caused so much that we did become
a focal point. Georgia, specifically Fulton County became a focal
point to this point that Shay and Ruby got targeted
because they needed to find two people that they can
make as suspicious as possible that is on the side
that has been making this huge turnaround.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
So I'm so glad that you put it that way.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
And this is something that I think has kind of
I would say, gotten missed, but I would say has
just sort of been implied, and I think that we
should just.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Like say it as is.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
I believe that the reason why the attacks on Ruby
and Shay were so effective and like took hold is
because they are black women.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
I think that you're exactly right.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
They needed somebody to pin the Georgia loss on, and
I think that there's it's not a surprise that the
people they would after were these two black women. And
I think that the way that race and gender and
class intersected to make them these these like effective targets
(16:13):
for this kind of smear campaign. I don't think that
we have like fully unpacked what that means and why
it was effective. Even in reporting that I think is
really good, like reporting that I respect, I just think
it relies on us to confront some uncomfortable truths about
our society. And I don't think that we have fully
contended with what happened to Ruby and Shay, why it
(16:33):
was effective, and how it was allowed to be amplified
by people like social media platforms and media outlets and
all of that. So yeah, I just think like it's
something we really got to talk about and something that
I think that we really got to take a lot
of important lessons and truths from. So if folks don't
know Ruby and Shae were election workers in Fulton County, Georgia,
(16:54):
a state that Trump lost in twenty twenty, get ready
for me to say.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
That over and over again, because it is a fact.
So you might recall.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
I'm sure that y'all recall that in Georgia, he Trump
pressured the secretary say to like find votes for him
to rewrite history. Shay had actually been an election worker
in Georgia for a long time. Listening to her talk
about it, she describes it as something that she had
really done in an effort to support her community and
just like something that she felt like was her civic duty.
(17:22):
You know, she has talked about how like her community
has a lot of older black folks in it, like elders,
and that she saw doing this work as an election
worker as part of service to like the elders in
her community. So was really just like wanted to do
her civic good. During twenty twenty, Fulton County was meant
to have a shortage and election workers because of COVID,
(17:44):
so Shae recruited her then sixty two year old mom, Ruby,
a retired nine to one to one operator, to also
serve as an election worker. So this is something that
I think is very sad like. In their testimony, Shay
has talked about how she feels quite a bit of
guilt for recruiting her mother into this work. Of course,
(18:06):
not knowing how could she know that Trump and Juliani
would attack them in this way.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
But she she has described feeling quite a bit of
guilt at.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Getting her mom involved in this, which just really really
breaks my heart.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
When, and I know we're going to talk about this,
but when like the whole family gets drawn into this
thing that you think you're doing. They were doing this
like civic duty, feeling really like, this is what.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
I want to do for my community, and that is
democracy at work.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That is like, oh, I want to make this happen
and it's really important to me and to have that
to feel guilty about that, because there are these other undemocratic,
like maascist forces who threaten and who make you feel
unsafe and make your loved ones feel unsafe. Like it
(19:01):
is heartbreaking, it is it's disgusting that this is what happens.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
It really is.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
And so basically, on December third, twenty twenty, a lawyer
working for the Trump campaign obtained security video of election
night from State Farm Arena in Georgia. So the video
just shows like election workers in general, including Ruby and Shay,
just like doing their jobs right, like nothing untoward is
going on. The lawyer brought the video to the Georgia
(19:28):
State Senate Committee, saying that he thought it showed someone
who had the name Ruby across her shirt somewhere finding
a suitcase of ballots from underneath the table. Now all
of this is just a complete lie. The video just
shows them working normally. The election workers were told to
like pack it up for the night, so they put
the ballots away.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
They didn't put them in suitcases.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
They put them in like the normal ballots where ballots
are always kept. And later in the night they were
told to go ahead and restart the count, don't wait
till the morning, and so that's what they did. The
video is just like normal election worker business. But I
think the presence of like just these two black women
was enough for this person to be like, something's going
(20:08):
on here.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
I need to flag this.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So the video starts making its way online through this
cottage industry of like extremist blogs and media sites. Once
it's in that online pipeline, it's basically everywhere like it
doesn't matter. By the time that it starts making the rounds,
it has already been thoroughly debunked by Georgia Secretary of State.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
None of that matters.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
It's already like in this pipeline and it's going to
be amplified despite the fact that it's already been proven alive.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
So this is where we.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Meet a big vector of lies and like dissemination of
these lives about Ruby and Shay the Gateway Pundit, which
is an extremist right wing media site. Research from the
University of Washington Center for an Informed Public found that
The Gateway Pundit was the second most prolific purveyor of
election misinformation on Twitter during twenty twenty. So they are
(20:58):
like a big source of incorrect, inaccurate information about our elections.
And once they get that video, they publish an article
under the headline huge all caps video footage from Georgia
show suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under table after
all caps supervisor told GOP poll workers to leave tabulation center.
(21:23):
So again that's just like a completely misleading claim. But
the way that they framed it is like we found
this bombshell video evidence of the smoking gun of votes
being hampered with and the election being stolen from Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Which is so hilarious because Fulton County was never Donald Trump,
like it's never been read like everybody else who lives
in Georgia are like what no, wait, and it reminds
me honestly, I watched it for like a few seasons,
but a setup of a Scandal episode actually the grainy
security video where they just like redline something and you're like,
(22:06):
oh my god, there it is and they're like no wait,
they're just boxes.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
What's happening.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
The proof And it's so funny.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
There's a thing that happens online where anything can look
nefarious if it's.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Like grainy video and you write in all.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Caps on it, like any it's just like a video
of people like moving around in an empty office building,
and it's like they're like all caps like busted.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Like anything looks nefarious when you when you frame it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
That way, and then you're like wait for it. You're
like wait, wait for what? Wait for what?
Speaker 6 (22:36):
We look at it?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
See. My My like association with this is ghost videos,
which I don't believe in ghosts, but I watch ghost
videos and they'll be like there it is, and I'm
like where and they'll circle something and I'm.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Like I'm blaming on my eyeside. I'm like it must
be there, like they circle something.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I really don't see anything there, but.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, it's really interesting because obviously all they needed they knew.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
This is why I say it. So the scale video.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
They're like, if we can just pull this video of
these grainy subjects with boxes and then circle the boxes,
people will believe this, and they it worked.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It literally began the like I'm like, wow, this is
a bad like Shonda Rhime's episode. What is happening?
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It truly is, And so the Gateway Pundit continued taking
their nose from a bad episode of scandal.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
They called Ruby out by name.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Ruby is somebody who really likes to wear like she
talks about how she was very proud of her name
before all this happened, and so she likes to wear
personalized shirts and hats and things that have her name
on it. So the Gateway Pundit called her out by name,
writing on the site her name is Ruby Freeman and
she made the mistake of advertising her purse on her
desk the same night she was involved in voter fraud
(23:51):
on a massive scale all caps. Her t shirt says
Lady Ruby and her purse Sesslave Ruby, which is her company.
This is not a smart move. Her company is called
l Ruby's Unique treasures. It's on her LinkedIn page. Maybe
the Georgia Police or Bill Barr's DOJ may want to
pay Ruby Freeman a visit. The article concludes with images
of Ruby over the banner that says crook gets caught.
(24:14):
They play this video on a n N, which is
a kind of I guess you could call it like
a far right news network. And that is really when
it like really blows up. So once the video gets
on to own, that is when Trump starts amplifying it
(24:35):
on his own Twitter, that is when Fox News starts
talking about it, and that is when the campaign of
harassment really gets scary for these women. Just three days later,
after Trump starts amplifying it on Twitter, Ruby calls nine
to one one to report people showing up at her home,
which is terrifying. And I think it's really important to
(24:56):
point out the ways that racism and misogyny work to
fuel these lives. I just do not believe that had
Ruby and her daughter not been black women, and that
if we did not have a digital media climate that
is like ready and poised and willing to validate and
amplify the worst racist lies about black women who we
(25:16):
know are disproportionately harmed by conspiracy theories and disinformation and harassment.
I don't think it would have taken off like it did.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
This kind of reminded me of when we did our
episode on Megan Markle. There was all of this outrage
about like, look, she's making all this money from podcasting,
which is just complete nonsense. But I feel like that
going back to that quote of like, oh she's advertising
her company, Look how crass, Like it just I felt
(25:57):
like there was a through line of you know, for
black women so ready to be like that's disgusting, like
like for.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Things that are totally commonplace, but it's like when it's
a black woman doing it and it's said in this
like manner that is clearly meant to convey like judgment,
it just I mean, people are just willing, like the
Megan and Markle stuff, Like I remember reading like, oh,
she ate avocado toast, Like it doesn't matter what it is.
It's not really about the substance of what she's done,
(26:30):
or her behavior or what she said or anything of substance.
It's just like it's just like pulling from this societal
distrust of her identity. And that's what I think really
helped these attacks on Shay and Ruby take hold.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
I do not think that had.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
They been white women or men that they that these
attacks would have been as amplified and have taken off
the way that they did.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
I just I just don't.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
And and part of the evidence is the way that
the people who were her asking them and attacking them,
we're doing it in a way that is so clearly racialized.
Like Rudi Giuliani in a phone call, he looked at
the tape and he said, these women are quite obviously
surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of
heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's obvious to anyone who's
(27:18):
a criminal investigator or a prosecutor that they're engaged in
surreptitious illegal activity. Again, that day, they're walking around Georgia lying.
They should have been questioned already, They're places of work,
their homes should have been searched for evidence of ballots,
evidence of USB ports, evidence of voter fraud. So he's
accusing these women of passing USB ports back and forth
(27:39):
as if they're vials of cocaine or heroin, which, like,
tell me, that is not meant to be a racist
dog whistle, but in reality, these women were just giving
each other a piece of candy. They were like, Oh,
I had a piece of candy in my hand and
I was passing it to my mom.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
And that's what that like.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
From that totally innocuous movement, Giuliani said that they were
passing USB ports, is that they were vials of heroin
or cocaine, like like, truly, truly beyond the pale of
just delusional lies.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I love that the melting man is the one accused,
and there's so many things that this is. This is
for real. I don't know what's happening, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I have to say in this whole thing that when
I remember what was happening at this point, I don't
think I remembered their names. I just remember people being accused,
and it was specifically two black women that though eventually
the Secretary of State, who got a lot of praise
and he shouldn't have as well as our governor, eventually
(28:39):
started defending them, but not until after they were docked.
It was an interesting setup of like they allowed this
to happen. To see again, at the very least they
stood up, but enough to be like yes, our votes
are fine. There's nothing incredulous about this. There's nothing incriminating
in here after the fact. But during this time, they
(29:02):
didn't do They're like, I remember, like they're just saying
they're investigating. That was that was They kept everything kind
of to the side, not agree, not saying anything, and
until they started getting harassed, their life was being threatened,
and they're like, okay, okay, okay, well now we need.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
To put us up to this.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But they allowed this to escalate to that point again
because they did not care about protecting them either, like
for what they did later shore, But I feel like
there should have been charges for their negligence.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
But hey, yeah, I mean by then, they had thoroughly
internally debunked this video and they quietly released like statements eventually,
but they knew, we know that they knew the entire
time that Shaye and Ruby had done nothing wrong and
they had been investigated.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
And so I'm with you in my book, was just
my opinion.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
You don't get a ton of credit for quietly eventually
being like, actually, they didn't do anything wrong and we've
already to like debunk this video when they were being
like physically threatened by armed psychopaths.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Right, And I think it's obvious that they could see
the evidence. But how racist this was, how sexist and racist,
like how this all came from misogynoire. But they just
couldn't say that because then they would have to say
that their party is exactly what we see them as.
And so therefore they were just quietly defending them, not
(30:29):
truly helping. It's it's obvious also that they allowed those perpetrators,
and I'm going to call them perpetrators at this point,
Giuliani and Trump to continue this tirade even after the
fact that they did not do anything to stop them
from harassing.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
In that the infamous call that Trump made to Georgia's
Secretary of State rad Raethensberger asking him to find votes,
Donald Trump calls Ruby out by name. In that call,
he says, we had at least eighteen thousand that's on
tape them counted very painstakingly, eighteen thousand voters having to
do with Ruby Freeman. She's a vote scammer, a professional
(31:06):
vote scammer, and hustler.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah. So, like he was the head.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Of that party, was calling Ruby by her first and
last name and lying about her and blaming her for
his election laws.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
It's terrifying.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
And again I also think, like to your point, Samantha,
it's complicated to talk about.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
But I think that one of the reasons.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
Why this lie took off the way it did is
because of the visual of Ruby and Shay. Right Like,
sites like Gateway Pundit are really good at knowing what
is going to resonate with their audience, what is going
to stoke something inside them that is going to motivate
them to click and share and have an emotional response.
And if you go back and look at what the
(31:51):
Gateway Pundit was publishing about Ruby and Shay, it is
highly visual. They posted so many images of these women online.
On election night, Ruby and Shay were wearing like blonde
extensions that contrast with their darker complexions. Literally, it's like
how my hair is styled. Right now, I'm wearing I'm
wearing blonde extensions. And they Ruby owned a fashion shop
(32:13):
and so her personal style is like a big part
of how she shows up to the world. She likes
bedazzled shirts, she likes to have her name on her
shirt or her hat. These are people who have a
very distinctive look and I believe the reason why the
Gateway Pundit posted so many images of the women were
basically to be like, look how black these women are look?
(32:34):
How like, look how they look? Because they knew that
these images, these visuals of these black women, they could
say anything they wanted because because they were weaponizing this
already pre existing disdain for black women.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
And so I think that like they knew what they
were doing.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
That is why you see these images used over and
over and over again of them like with like crooked
stamped across their head. I think they I think they
knew that that was going to be what like moved
their audience, and I think they weaponized that to make
this lie stickier.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, it follows along with what Trump has been saying
about Lanta, especially when he was going after John Lewis
before his death.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
He always does this like, oh, if I were in Atlanta,
I would be worried about the crime, like just.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like yeah, he would go after it and trying to
set it up as if it was just this horrible,
stricken place because it was made up of a large
largely black communities, which is like no, that's why it's
so productive and wealthy right now, like, I'm not really
sure what you're trying to point out, because Atlanta is
(33:39):
one of the more successful areas of Georgia.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Huh m.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
And he had been setting that up and that played
right into this whole scandal, because again, here's a woman
who has her own business and she's doing fine, and
it's so well enough that she helps volunteer.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
Yeah, and I think like him and his cronies knew
that like just evoking the idea that that black women
were involved in the vote counting process in.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Georgia would be enough proof.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
I'm putting that in quotes, not like actual proof, but
like their proof that something nefarious was going on. They
basically told their supporters, like, black women were involved in
this voting process, so that should be evidence enough that
that Atlanta or Georgia is like rigged against me.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
I think that was really the argument that they were
trying to imply.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Right, and again it just aims it towards his already base,
who is very loud exactly.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
So, yeah, I think that these attacks really weaponize and
rely on tropes about black women being inherently untrustworthy, which
we see time and time again with things like online
harassment and disinformation.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
So this a'll led to.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Like a flood of really scary racist death threats and
harassment against Ruby and Shay online and folks watched the
January sixth commission their testimony really just like, I think
every American should watch it because.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
It really is.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Horrifying and also heartbreaking to hear them describe what they
went through. But this is Shae talking about what it
felt like to know that her mom was now involved
in this. Shae at her during the January sixth testimony, said,
I felt horrible. I felt like it was all my fault.
Like if I never would have decided to be an
election worker, I could have done anything else, but that's
what I decided to do. And now people are lying
(35:32):
and spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mom. I'm
her only child going to my grandmother's house. I'm her
only grandchild, and my kid is just I just feel
so bad. I felt bad for my mom, and I
felt horrible for picking this job and for being the
one that always wants to help, always there, never missing
that one election. I just felt like it was my
fault for putting my family in this situation. It is
(35:54):
really heartbreaking. Ruby talks about how she had been so
proud of her nickname and her name, Lady Ruby, that's
the name of her business, that she is definitely a
staple in Georgia. Everybody knew Ruby as Lady Ruby, and
she always wore that shirt with her name on it.
And because of all of this campaign of lives and harassment,
Ruby talks about how she once was this like pillar
(36:18):
of the community and now is afraid to use her
own name, her name that she used to wear as
a badge of honor. Like, I get emotional just thinking
about what that would have.
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Been like for these women.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
And how threatening it sounds like that was to their
own sense of identity, their own sense of safety, their
own sense of being able to show up in their
communities that was like really important to them, that was
just taken away because of these people lied. Like it
just really upsets me. H.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, And I think one of the things to keep
in mind too, is that these were two women who
were just trying to help their community. They were not
looking for this, obviously, but weren't looking for like fame
or attention or they were just trying to help their community.
And then it got blown up and it became this
whole thing where now, yeah, you can't use the name
(37:15):
you were so proud of, or you feel guilty about
doing something good for your community.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
But there was like a whole.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Organized effort that ended up getting targeted towards them exactly.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
And so let's talk a bit about who were some
of the players in that effort. So in addition to
the like mixed bag of Trump cronies that you've heard about,
you know, Rudy Giuliani, folks like that, Ruby and Shay
were also being harassed and threatened by a woman named
Trevion Kuti. Trevion was formally a publicist for the R
and B singer slash convicted sex criminal r Kelly, So
(37:51):
she definitely like knows how to pick the men to
associate with. She had some kind of association with Kanye
West at some point point, who you may recall, ran
for president himself alongside Trump in twenty twenty before becoming
a vocal Trump supporter. NBC News it's not totally clear
what her association with Donald Trump is. NBC News reported
(38:14):
that in a biography of her on a website for
the Women's Global Initiative, a business networking group, she identified
herself as a member of the Young Black Leadership Council
under President Donald Trump.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
She says that she was secured.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
As Kanye West's publicist in twenty eighteen and now serves
as his director of Operations. But importantly, Kanye West camp
says that she was not associated with Kanye West. But
Kanye's camp is like, we don't know her there, like
we she is not associated with us, so like don't
know what to tell you. So, in any event, regardless
of whether or not she is truly associated with Kanye
(38:51):
West or Donald Trump, what went down is this Trivion
showed up at Shayan and Ruby's door, and the women,
after being harassed and targeted, understandable just like called the police.
The police show up, and they all end up going
to a police station together to talk. Trivion told them
that she was visiting them at the direction of a
high profile individual who warned that if Ruby and Shay
(39:13):
did not confess to voter fraud, they would be arrested
in forty eight hours. According to Rolling Stone, the body
cam footage of the conversation shows Trivion telling the women,
I cannot say what specifically will take place. I just
know that it will disrupt your freedom and the freedom
of one or more of your family members. You are
a loose end for a party that needs to tidy up,
(39:34):
which is like a real weird thing to tell somebody
to be honest with you, that's like a very weird
thinges say, yeah, so I will say Travion has said, like, oh,
they're getting it wrong.
Speaker 6 (39:45):
I was trying to help these women. That's not a threat.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
So like that's her defense, is that, like she was
genuinely trying to offer support to these women. That's what
she says. You tell me what you what you think.
But like that's her defense. Then she calls a man
by the name of Harrison Floyd of Black Voices for Trump,
puts him on speakerphone, and Floyd says that he can
offer the women protection. But according to that body cam audio,
(40:11):
he said that Ruby and Shay would have to confess
to voter fraud. If she did, he would offer her
legal protection, but if she declined, then her and her family.
Speaker 6 (40:19):
Would be arrested.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
So Floyd worked for the Trump campaign formally as the
executive director of the of Black Voices for Trump, but
he told Rachel Maddow that he sent Trevion to the
Women's House as a private citizen, not as an employee
of the Trump campaign. He also in those calls said
that like he has people that can keep her safe
if she confessed all of that. I should say, like,
(40:42):
I'm including what these people are saying as their defense
or like how they explain their behavior. I don't really
believe any of these people, but like this is what
they said about like why they.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
Did the things that they did.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
So I just think people should know their side of
the story, even though I don't believe any of this.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Again, I just this is such a bad setup of
so many like gang movies.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
That you were like, what is happening? Like this reminds me.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Of what would have happened in Chicago in the early
mob days. Like they create a problem and a threat,
but will protect you if you confess these things. And
you're thinking, at what point does Floyd and Couty not
realize they're bound to be thrown under the bus like
they are the scapegoats now?
Speaker 6 (41:29):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
So yes and Floyd, especially because folks might remember that
when all the other defendants in the Trump Raiko case
got arrested in Georgia, most of them just like bombed
out right away Floyd because when they initially the FBI
initially had like served him at his apartment, they like
(41:51):
he got into some kind of like physical scuffle with
the FBI, and so that led to like a warrant
for his arrest. And so when he turned himself in
for these trump Rycho charges, he actually was not able
to bond out like everybody else was like in and out.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, it was bad.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I didn't realize it was for that, and BT dubs
the Rico charges here in Georgia is partially rachel.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
So it's quite funny to me that they got that.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's complicated.
Speaker 6 (42:23):
But like, I just can't believe I thought this was
a good idea.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
I can't believe that they were like, yes, I will
get myself arrested for this man. I will get like
pretty serious charges for this man. I will break the
law for this man, and that will be fine for me.
That will go well for me. I will be in
their club, I will be taken care of, I will
be protected. I cannot believe that somebody would think that. So, yeah,
just really says a lot about the judgment there I
(42:47):
guess right.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Again, I'm like, there's nothing about this group of people
who would help you as.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
We Yeah, yeah, they have a long history of throwing
people under the bus, going completely broke, right.
Speaker 6 (42:59):
If they're not gonna throw are you under the bus? Yes,
you're not special, I will say.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
One side note is that Trivion KOUTI I think that
people should She's very active on Instagram. I think that
if folks listening are curious for more information about her,
I really implore them to look at her Instagram.
Speaker 6 (43:20):
Her Instagram, I think is.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
Very telling about what kind of person she is, right, So, yeah,
folks are interested in like cause like when I first
was reading about this, I was like, what kind of perth?
Like she SuDS like a interesting person. Let me look
her up. And her Instagram really confirmed that she's someone
who is like hashtag overload, Like every post is like
so like, honestly, I can't really even describe it. I mean,
(43:45):
if folks are curious, they should look her up on Instagram.
And I don't think you will be disappointed at what
you see. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, her association with r Kelly, Because if I know
one thing in Atlanta, black women do not side with
r Kelly, Like that's so rare.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
An event in Atlanta when they played remixed Magnition and
black women were like, boom, turn this off.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
Yeah until the DJ turns it off.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Like yeah, every debate that I've ever seen, uh, and
like it would be on our neighbor pages all of that,
it was always men or white people who were and
white people were smart enough to stay out of it for.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
The most part.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yeah, they were like, Okay, we're not we're not part
of this.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
But every black woman that you saw was going after anyone.
So for her to be a supporter at any point,
you're like, hmmm, really, yeah, that's that's not.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
That's the sign right there.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
So this whole conversation between Trevion and Harrison Floyd and
rubinha went down on January fourth, twenty twenty one, just
two days before January six It honestly sounds like Trump's
associates just wanted to get a forced confession out of
these women as a means to stop the transition of power.
Speaker 6 (45:20):
So on January sixth, when pro.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Trump extremists and goons were storming the Capitol, they were
also surrounding the Women's home with bullhorns, but luckily they
had already fled for their safety. But this is where
it gets even scarier. Trump supporters actually tried to force
their way into Shay's elderly grandmother's home to make a
citizen's arrest. I honestly cannot even fathom how terrifying it
(45:45):
would be to have a mob of angry, potentially armed
people show up at your elderly grandmother's home and with
the intent to force their way in and citizens arrest her. Like,
I don't even I mean, I can't, I don't even
have words, like, I don't even know.
Speaker 6 (46:03):
I can't think of anything more horrifying than that.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Right, Once again, she had nothing to do with any
of the elections, So this is just the hostage at
this point.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Essentially, Yes, and like and I think it goes back
to a lot of the things that we that we
talk about on the show. When we deal with things
like harassment campaigns, it is rarely just the woman. So
it's usually a woman at the center of a harassment
campaign like this.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
It is rarely just that one woman.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
Is It is her and her family, her and her parents,
her and her kids, her and her partner and it's
an effort to I think, terrify women and other marginalized
people from participating in civic.
Speaker 6 (46:43):
And public life.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
If like, I'm one person, if I'm going to face
these kinds of attacks, I wouldn't love it.
Speaker 6 (46:50):
But like, okay, that's me. Fine.
Speaker 5 (46:52):
If it's me and my elderly parents, me and my child,
me and my partner, me and my community, you might
think twice about your behavior if you felt like you
were putting the people that you loved at risk. And
so this is a specific tactic in order to frighten
women out of civic and public life, and.
Speaker 6 (47:13):
I think it's effective.
Speaker 5 (47:14):
It really it's upsetting that it works, but I can
understand why women don't want to put their families at
risk in this way.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
After that election, I volunteered at a few polls, and
I even thought about trying to work at the elections.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
And they were in desperately. They were begging people to come.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
And this was after several of the voter sites had
been shut down by our governor, so they'd already been
transitioned into like maybe four stations out of those six,
and they were trying desperately to find people because they
were having such a struggle.
Speaker 5 (47:49):
Yeah, so that's not surprising to me. It's actually become
a common problem. According to research from the Brendan Center,
nearly one in three local election officials no at least
one election worker who has left the job, partly due
to safety concerns, increased threats, and intimidation. Ruby herself said
that she could never see herself working another election again
for the rest of her life, which again I don't
blame her. In this most recent election, we had a
(48:11):
shortage of poll workers, which of course leads to anti
democratic outcomes like short staffing polling precincts like you just described,
Sam that force people to wait in longer lines to vote.
These shortages of poll workers can also cause some locations
to either close or be consolidated with other polling centers,
making it more challenging for voters to access new polling places.
(48:33):
All of this can lead to disenfranchisement and reduce trust
and elections, especially among communities of color and other marginalized
communities who already face barriers to voting. And so it
is a widespread issue when you go to vote, if
people have been intimidated out of being part of that process,
that is an attack on our democracy, and it harms
(48:56):
all of us, not just the women who are attacked
and find themselves the targets.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Right, and that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I remember voting kind of soon after this for a
local election, and you could almost feel it. You could
feel that everyone was more unsure about about the process
and everyone was more on edge, and at one point,
like the power flickered and you could just see people
looking around like, oh, like I can't trust this anymore.
(49:22):
And the damage that has been done to these specific
women does speak to so much more. It speaks to
this doubt and people not feeling safe to work at poles.
And I think who works at poles, Like, if I
go in and it's like a bunch of kind of
(49:43):
burly white dudes that I might think are Trump supporters,
I'm not gonna feel as good about voting, Like I'm
not gonna feel as safe as about voting. And it's
just like a trickles, it's everywhere. It's got a ripple effect.
We're talking about kind of a specific thing, but it's
such a larger.
Speaker 6 (49:59):
Issue, absolutely, and it's absolutely gendered.
Speaker 5 (50:03):
Eighty percent of election officials are women, so these are
women being attacked and it's harming all of us.
Speaker 6 (50:09):
And it shouldn't be like that.
Speaker 5 (50:10):
When you go to vote, when the lights flicker, you
shouldn't have to worry like, oh no, what's about to happen?
Like this is the foundation in the cornerstone of our
democracy and it shouldn't it shouldn't be like that. Right, So,
we deserve better than a system that is able to
weaponize racism and sexism and lies to disenfranchise us. We
deserve so much better. And you know that kind of
(50:31):
brings us to today. So Ruby and Shay sued the
right wing website The Gateway Pundit and its owners for
defamation he publishing stories that instigated a deluge of intimidation, harassment.
Speaker 6 (50:42):
And threats. And they also settled a suit.
Speaker 5 (50:44):
With one American news network. And honestly, I hope they
get every penny. Hope they get so much money and
then thumb. Earlier this month, a federal judge ruled that
Rudy Giuliani is liable for defaming these women.
Speaker 6 (50:56):
He'll have to pay their legal fees.
Speaker 5 (50:58):
He's already paid about ninety thousand dollars and there's going
to be another trial to determine how much you will
have to pay in additional damages.
Speaker 6 (51:04):
It could be in the millions.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
And so I'm pleased that these women are getting some
semblance of justice. Like, I think that's great, but I
do also think that no amount of money can make
right what they went through. They only wanted to serve
their communities and do civic good during a pandemic, and
the president and his associates put their lives at risk
(51:28):
because of that. You know, they testified and spoke off
about what they experienced and putting themselves even more at risk.
And so what they did was heroic. They are absolutely
American heroes. But black women should not have to be
put in such a great danger for a country that
is going to weaponize their own identities against them, right,
And so yeah, I think that what they did is
(51:49):
really heroic, But I wish they never had to do
that in the first place.
Speaker 6 (51:54):
I wish that they were able to just do their.
Speaker 5 (51:56):
Jobs and live their lives and try to support democracy
they were doing without facing these kind of attacks, because
not only does it hurt them, it hurts us all.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, I hope they get all the money as they deserve.
I'm I'm glad that Guliani actually admitted that he was wrong.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
We shouldn't even have a get to that point.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
Technically, what he admitted was I am so broke that
I can no longer afford to contest these allegations. So
he didn't admit wrongdoing, but he did. He was like,
I don't have the money to continue.
Speaker 6 (52:26):
To contest fees.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
So okay, sure I read that wrong, but then well
believe it. Of that, I'm glad he's.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Getting all his money taken away. That's delightful. And we
know he's never getting any money that he was supposed
to get from Trump, so that's even matter.
Speaker 5 (52:40):
It's like begging Trump to pay his legal his legal fees. Also,
even if Trump was like, I'll pay your legal fees,
he doesn't pay anyway, So like, what does that even
look like?
Speaker 6 (52:48):
Like he doesn't pay his bill.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
I think he actually owes Julianni for the years of
representing him. Uh that like he just doesn't pay, which
everybody's like, you know, that's not a thing, which I
still love to think about the fact people love him
as a businessman Trump and roll them. I'm like, all
his businesses go bankrupt. I don't understand what you're talking about.
Literally in Atlanta, he tried to build a whole apartment
(53:11):
and it went bankrupt.
Speaker 6 (53:13):
It's easy to be a savvy businessman where you just
don't pay.
Speaker 5 (53:16):
Anybody that you owe money to. Like, if I didn't
pay any of my bills, I'd probably be rich.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I love the whole file bankruptcy thing, which he's done
so many times. And he can because he doesn't need credit,
so he's like, I'll just keep borrowing money. Yeah, And
I hate that this is their legacy, Like that's the
thing that I know they did what they had to
do because they're going to protect themselves and protect their
loved ones.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
But the fact that they had to be put.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
To this point going through so much stress and then
just hiding because I remember when they did high. They
later left Atlanta and went to South Georgia, and even
there they're just like what if they find us?
Speaker 5 (53:52):
Yeah, it breaks my heart. My heart goes out to
these women. I think about them often. Yeah, I think
about them a lot. I wish them nothing but peace
and prosperity and abundance for the rest of their lives,
because Lord knows they deserve it.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
They deserve it, and they've done so much, especially for
the state of Georgia with what we're seeing, and we
love to see the fact that thinks in part to
them to coming out and speaking out.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
We get to see mug shots.
Speaker 5 (54:23):
Oh if you if you haven't seen Trevion's mugshot, I
definitely suggest taking a look at that too.
Speaker 6 (54:28):
That's what I'll end there. Just a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
And we should also note that it is DA Fanny Willis,
who is a black woman who really decided like, yeah,
we're not gonna let this sit.
Speaker 5 (54:43):
No, I don't think I knew like much about her
until this, until this started, so like, yeah, I know it.
Speaker 6 (54:51):
Chaps.
Speaker 5 (54:51):
Trump's asked that so many of the people who are
like trying to hold him accountable or black women, I know,
chat ye.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
And he really hoped that Georgia would pull a Florida
where Kemp would kick the DA off. But Camp was like, nah,
I'm not messing with her. You got If I mess
with Atlanta, it might be over for me. And he
realizes that.
Speaker 6 (55:16):
Don't mess with Atlanta because the South's got something to say.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Look, they know that he barely made it buy some Uh,
I'm going to say Gray areas past aprams, but like
Fulton County, will be the one that takes him out
if he's not.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
Careful and you're here a Willis's, she doesn't please.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
We always love having you so much, Fridget. I feel
like we could just go on and on and on
and talk about all these different things.
Speaker 5 (55:44):
This is such a pleasure you always let you always
let me, Like when I've got a b in my
bonnet about something, you all always give me a platform.
Speaker 6 (55:51):
So I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
We love bees and bonnets. Virgets bees and bonnets.
Speaker 6 (55:58):
Oh that's look at that. I had to save that one.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yes, yes, well, thank you, thank you for always being
in delight and doing this research and making sure people
know these important things.
Speaker 4 (56:14):
We know you're very busy, so we really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (56:16):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (56:17):
Where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 5 (56:19):
Well, you can check out my podcast. There are no
girls on the internet. You can find me on Instagram
at Bridget Marie and DC or on Twitter at Bridget
Marie and you can see me and Annie in Las
Vegas if you're there, check come check us out.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
Yes, I will wear not pajamas for.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Are you gonna low key cosplay? Scully? Hello?
Speaker 1 (56:45):
I actually have a friend who cosplays a Scully and
she has the bench. Maybe she'll let me. Okay, that's
a good idea. That's a good idea. Okay, well that's
a spoiler for what we might be talking about. But yes,
thank you, thank you, thank you, bridget. If you would
like to find us, you can. You can emailus a
stuff Adia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
(57:06):
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on
Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told you. We
have a tea public store. We also have a book.
You can get it at stuff you should read Books
dot com or wherever you get your books. Thanks, it's
always to our super producer Christina, our executive ducer Maya,
and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Thank you and I'm sorry, oh no, thanks.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
To you for listening Stuff I've Never Told whose production
of IRT Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the art radio app Apple Podcasts,
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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