What's Happening with Roe v. Wade?

With the onslaught of state heartbeat laws in the US, Anney and Samantha check in on abortion laws and Roe v Wade.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, this is Annie and this is Samantha, and welcome
to stuff. I never told you a production of I
Heart Radios how starts all right, listeners. Um, I know,
we promised we were going to do like a bunch

(00:24):
of lighthearted topics as a break um, and we've just
completely failed or backed out on that promise. Um bagging out.
We're just postponing because we are going to do a
little more lighthearted but unfortunately, Yeah, things keep coming up
and you just can't ignore them. It was like the
world is falling apart right now. It does feel that way. Um. Yeah.

(00:47):
The other day when I was researching this topic and
the in sales woman, so one of my co workers
came up and he was like, gonna tell me some
silly joke, and he took one look at my face
and said, are you okay? So, yes, there's all going
on in the world. Um, and we really can't put
off talking about abortion and all of these restrictions around
abortion that are happening in our laws any longer. So um,

(01:11):
sugar warnings for this before we get into it. Um.
Some sexual assault, rape, incest, and of course abortion, abortion, miscarriage. Um. Yeah,
so you've probably heard about some of these. It's not
in the news at all. Oh yeah, every day everyday

(01:31):
conversations or Facebook or any of the social media, it's
not at all, right, Um, And we know this is
an emotional issue for a lot of people. Um, And
we're trying really to focus on the laws here, right.
And and just a reminder, yes, abortion is a hard,
hard topic and the reason we're having this conversation because

(01:54):
there's not only many misconceptions still floating about that. We
want to make sure that while having this conversation we
can later us some of the misconception that continues to
happen and continue to be spread unfortunately. Yes, and um,
And a future episode possibly right after this one, but
recording schedules are fun. Um, we'll be talking about crisis

(02:15):
pregnancy centers as well. So another thing to worth mentioning
is that a lot of this is in flux. As
we recorded, things are happening very rapidly. Wishing it never
happens in our legal system. How interesting it does for this.
But yeah, so if you if you listen to this
and something is incorrect or has changed, just no, Um,

(02:39):
as we record this, it's been about a week since
Alabama passed um their their law, which we'll get into
in a second, and we aren't going to go too
much into the history. There are some past episodes of
this very show for that, but just a friendly reminder
that Republicans, which is the party of less government on paper,

(02:59):
that's what they issay, recognized that this was an emotional
issue that they could use to attract evangelicals the moral majority.
In the eighties, in percent of surveyed Republicans believed it
was a private matter between women and their doctors. Reagan,
who once signed one of the most liberal laws around
abortion when he was governor of California nineteen sixty seven,

(03:19):
changed his tune in the nineteen eighty presidential election and
he brought up the issue of rights for unborn fetuses UM.
Then he then came the crack epidemic, and then came
the unfounded racist belief that black mothers who were on
cracker giving birth to a generation of dangerous and or
damaged children. And this reinforced the idea that the wants

(03:42):
or needs of the fetus were in direct conflict with
that of the mother, and the mother in this case
did not deserve society's protection. Unlady alike with UM creator
founder Kristin Conger and Caroline Irvan Pass co host UM.
They have a great episode on abortion with the experiences

(04:03):
of three women. And like I said, we've done past
episodes about the history UM, and we recently did an
episode on Ireland's vote if you want kind of a
more international take, and UM also home abortions. So there's
there's a lot of media out there to consume if
you would like more information after this, and if you're
wondering why it seems so much of these laws banning

(04:24):
abortion are happening now, it's because Republicans are hoping that
they can get a case to the Supreme Court to
overturn Roe v. Wade, which they think they can overturn
now that they have gorst In Kevinaugh as justices right
and as in fact, that's been kind of some of
the platforms for the now UM presiding legislative people such

(04:46):
as our governor in Georgia, Kemp. That was one of
his biggest platform was to try to get this overturn.
So this has been in the workings for a little while.
Unfortunately we're seeing it all that happen. And uh, some
of us who feeled is and injustice have feared that
this would happen. Yeah, oh absolutely. According to the Gutmacher

(05:08):
Institute thirty eight, if the restrictions passed around abortion were
enacted between twenty ten and twenty sixteen, which makes up
one third, about one third of all restrictions passed since
Roe v. Wade in ninety three. So this is like increasing.
It's not just in your head as they say. And
also the abortion rate is decreasing. Inteen, there were an

(05:32):
estimated nine hundred thousand abortions US, about fourteen point six
abortions per one thousand pregnancies. That same year, the US
had one thousand, six hundred seventy one facilities that provided abortions.
I have actually seen a lot of debate about that number,
but somewhere around there um. But still it's not an
uncommon experience. One in four women will have an abortion

(05:52):
before the age of forty five. During one month in seventeen,
there were two hundred thousand searches on self abortion in
months um and for some more numbers, nearly one million
known pregnancies in the U s and in miscarriages are
still birth um. The same it has been for around
thirty years. Most of the time the cause isn't determined.

(06:15):
For women who have or are going through a miscarriage,
that trauma is made worse when they are accused of homicide,
which is what some of these restrictions um entail. And
for doctors, this puts them in the position of collecting
evidence as opposed to providing care right which has been
around Twitter. I've seeing several different stories where they talk
about parents who wanted children having a miscarriage and having

(06:39):
to go through that type of trauma and then having
to sit still while the doctor gathers pretty much whatever's
there bodily issues and all of the fluids and such,
and gathering up for evidence to do autopsies to make
sure it wasn't the person's fault this miscarriage happened, which
is I can only imagine, like it's just horrifying. Yeah,

(07:01):
And if the personhood of a fetus was established, legal
abortion would be a thing of the past because they
would be protected by the fourteenth Amendment UM and even
some forms of birth control right. The law in Ohio
actually could eliminate medical coverage for birth control, and the
language within the Georgia bill makes it very vague with
definitions of non therapeutic abortions, which includes drugs or devices

(07:25):
used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum, which
means any drug that blocks fertilization and implantation, and this
could include i U D s and pills, which is
really problematic in itself because that's so far ahead of
even being created, something being created, and you're starting to wonder,
how is this going to be illegal? Yeah, I had
a one of my best friends moms, believed that UM

(07:49):
birth control was essentially abortion, right. I actually had a
debate with a good friend of mine about this as well,
and the fact that she felt, um, I guess flushing,
I'm fertilized was literally abortion and had a really big
issue with that, and we had this hope back and forth,
like why why what? Like it doesn't even make sense
because then what you're saying to me is essentially a miscarriage.

(08:11):
These were I mean, and for those who want these children,
it absolutely could be. The athlete named this as what
is to them their child who they lost, and that
is heartbreaking and I think that should be absolutely validated
and acknowledge. But we understand that it's not exactly. That
is not as blanket as this is a human being

(08:32):
of source, whatever whatnot. The law in Ohio was also
written by Janet Porter, a woman who thinks some of
sexuality is a choice and is the president and founder
of Faith to Action Haven for anti LGBTQ plus sentiment
the Southern poverty loss in her classifies them as a
hate group. She lost her radio talk show when she
verged on Christian supremacy. For nine years, she lobbied on

(08:56):
the outside of the abortion debate, as her six week
ban was vitoed twice and it wasn't even supported by
the Ohio Right to Life. She was also a birther
Um and said of Roy Moore, I have known him
for twenty years because of his stand for the Ten Commandments.
So if there was ever a man who was innocent,
he's like the least likely man in America to do
the things they accused him of. Now that we have

(09:18):
that sentiment, we know Roy Moore's holiest of all. Oh goodness,
no nope, um, And quick note about the whole x
weeks pregnant thing, because I think there is a lot
of confusion around this. This is an estimate, Um. It's
done based on when women had their last period called
l M p UM and we all probably a lot

(09:40):
of us listening. No, you can have a regular periods.
Things change in your life, like very it's for me,
it's been rare in my life to meet someone who's
very regular. But right, I know they exist. Just saying
it's not as scientific thing as I think a lot
of people believe it to be. And we're going to
be talking a lot about so called heartbeat bills, and

(10:02):
this typically means six weeks. Doctors argue the term is
medically inaccurate because the heart chambers have not formed yet.
Around twenty four weeks is when a pregnancy is considered viable,
and that's kind of when Roe v. Wade, that's what
it protects. The US has one of the highest, if
not the highest, pregnancy mortality rate of any industrialized country.

(10:24):
Is something we don't talk about a lot in this
conversation as well. UM and the rates are often highest
in the states that are passing these strictest abortion laws.
Abortion has been shown to be savior than childbirth. Say
this because pregnancy is not something to be entered into lightly.
UM and also we leave out a lot Um, trans people,

(10:46):
they can get pregnant, and you just to put that
out there. We are trying to speak more of people
being pregnant and not women because of that language in itself,
that trans men still can be pregnant and should also
be a of this conversation as well. UM. I know
there's been many things where we leave specific people out

(11:08):
and it's not inclusive, and this is part of the
problem in general, I think, well, obviously because we're excluding
the rights of anyone who's prebagnant to get this bill
out anyway, right, yeah, um, and we're about to move
into you some specific state laws. But first, UM, just
to kind of give an example of what this can

(11:32):
look like. UM. In a woman in Virginia passed out
and when she woke up, she found her fetus still
born next to her. It had been dead inside of
her for three days. She wrapped up the fetus and
put it in a garbage bag and then went to
get medical attention, and her dad, who didn't realize what
was in the bag, threw it away and she was
convicted of concealing a dead body and sentenced to five

(11:55):
months in prison, and the appeal, her lawyer argued that
the fetis was never alive, so it could not be dead. Eventually, though,
the woman was pardoned, but a court upheld the decision
and made the argument that a fetus was the dead
body of a person. And this is really important into
the whole conversation of what is happening right now, because
we're talking about not just banning something, but actually criminalizing

(12:19):
individuals as well, and that is really really problematic and
dangerous for the onset of people who are going to
be prosecuted, or how they could be prosecuted, or again,
maybe what race may be more likely to be prosecuted,
because that is a conversation that has to happen. Yes,
And but it's also important because essentially what opponents of

(12:42):
abortion are trying to do is established the personhood of
a fetus. So one of the proposals of the tax
bill put forth by Congress had a provision about fetis personhood. Um.
And then here's some quick overview stats and then we'll
get into some specifics. Eleven states restrict coverage of abortions
by private insurance. Thirty three states and Washington, d c.

(13:04):
Have rules prohibiting state funding for abortions, except when federal
money is available, and only then for cases of life
endangerment or rape and incest. Forty five states allow individual
healthcare providers to refuse to participate in an abortion. Okay,
so let's look at some state laws, starting with Iowa.

(13:25):
So this one was permanently blocked, but it's worth mentioning
it was a heartbeat bill that was quickly struck down.
Republican Senator Rick Bertrand said of it, we created an
opportunity to take a run at Roe v. Wade. That
state has many other restrictions around abortions, like requiring ultrasounds
even against a patient's will, requiring that the parents of

(13:47):
a minor are notified, and requiring the governor's sign off
on all Medicaid approved abortions even in the case of rape, incest,
fetal anomaly, or life endangerment. Then there's North Dakota. This
one was also permanently blocked. North Dakota passed a quote
fetal heartbeat law in the strictest in the country at

(14:09):
the time, but it was blocked from taking effect. Then
last year in Mississippi, that state passed a law prohibiting
abortion after fifteen weeks of pregnancy. It was challenged and
struck down soon after, But it didn't end there. And
March the governor signed a Heartbeat bill, and this is
set to go into effect as recording this July. The

(14:31):
Center for Reproductive Rights has requested a judge to block
it before it goes into effect. Then there's Kentucky. This
one is temporarily blocked. Kentucky Senator and Republican Paul Rand
introduced the Life at Conception Act. This act sought to
ban all abortions and protect and give fetuses full protection
under the Fourteenth Amendment quote at the moment of fertilization.

(14:56):
Kentucky also passed along seen that required doctors show an
ultra a sound to women seeking an abortion and describe
it in detail, and play the fetal heartbeat, even against
the patient's wishes. It was later struck down by a
federal court. In Kentucky passed House Bill four or five
four in an attempt to put an end to common

(15:17):
second trimester procedures dilation and evacuation pregnancy d n e
a K partial birth. It made performing these a Class
D felony, but the patient was protected. A federal judge
struck it down, saying it would be a substantial obstacle
in the way of getting an abortion, and Kentucky's governor appealed.
Of the eleven percent of abortions that take place during

(15:39):
the third trimester, the DNA accounts for of them. The
American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have labeled it as
evidence based and medically preferred. And then there's Senate Bill nine,
the Heartbeat Bill, and this is the band on abortions
as soon as a heartbeat can be detected. It was
blocked and House Bill one for eight trigger bill that

(16:00):
will ban all abortions in the state if ro Vwright
is overturned. Senate Bill five signed that one bans abortion
after the nineteenth week of pregnancy. Abortion, by law, is
not covered under insurance Republic employees. So there's a lot
happening in Kentucky, right There's a lot of attempts and
things being passed. It's been a back and forth the

(16:22):
entirety of our lives, I mean, honestly, and since the
beginning of row versus wait has been a constant struggle
and it continues to be a constant struggle. We had
thought we made progress five years ago, yeah, oh um.
And then Ohio, which we kind of touched on a
little bit. UM. This one goes into effect July. In

(16:43):
two thousand eleven, Ohio tried to pass the first feetal
heartbeat bill and have now passed it. And one of
the pushes for this bill was to be sued by
anti abortions groups in order to repeal row versus wait,
which has been kind of the theme throughout Yes Yes, UM.
Then that brings us to state. A state of Georgia
does not go into effects until January. UM. Always like

(17:05):
to put that out there so it doesn't deter people
who go get abortions if you need them. UM. A
couple of weeks ago, Governor Bryant Kemp signed Georgia's HB
for eight one, also called the Living Fairness and Equality
Act l I f a UM, which is a heartbeat
bill out allowing abortion at six weeks even in the
case of rape and ancest It's the sixth state to

(17:27):
pass the sixth week law, follow North Dakota, Kentucky, Ohio, Iowas.
To be on top of that, it widens the definition
of natural persons to include unborn child. It allows for
potential criminal prosecution for both doctor and patient. The a
c l U and the Center for Reprojective Rights have
both stated their plans to challenge it in court and

(17:50):
then like not even a week later Alabama UM. Late
Alabama voters passed an initiative that read, quote nothing in
this Constitution and secures or protect a right to abortion
or requires the funding of an abortion, and that policy
has to quote recognize and support the sanctity of unborn
life and the rights of unborn children. It makes no

(18:12):
exceptions for incest and rape and makes it a felony
for doctors up to ninety nine years of jail time
to perform them unless life engagement is at play. And
as we talked about at lengthen our Trauma series, sexual
assault takes away someone's control over their own body, and
healing is about giving them back that control. Forcing someone

(18:33):
who has been raped to carry a forced pregnancy to
term removes that control and compounds the trauma. A provision
along the same lines in Tennessee was upheld in federal
Appeals Court UM, and honestly, I was gonna throw in
there this could cause trauma for rape victims who do
have children, because we saw one I think the eleven

(18:53):
year old who had to share custody with her rapist
for that child, which is another back and forth that
we need to have a versation about who gives control
of what. And not only did we allow UM someone
to take control of this youth who had gone through
this traumatic event, but now we have the perpetrated controlling
are even more because of this entity that's between them.

(19:15):
Oddly enough, even pet Robertson has condemned this legislation as
being unjust and over the top. So you have a
lot of people who are all about UM pro life
choices as in like the political stances, who are like
this may have gone a little too far. Yeah, well,
that's the thing is, it's like it's politics. It's disingenuous.

(19:36):
They just want to get it to the Supreme Court, right,
And I think you must have the one most extreme
in order to get as much as you can. So
if you're negotiating for a tactic, go the other extremes
so you can get the more right well and then
reapp Missouri, which as we record this actually as we
were writing the outline right, um Missouri passed a bill

(19:57):
banning abortion after eight weeks UM that is on its
way to the Republican Governor's desk. It has no exceptions
for rape and incest, only for medical emergencies. It's expected
the governor will sign it, since he tweeted, thanks to
the leaders in the House and Senate, we are one
vote away from passing one of the strongest hashtag pro
life pills in the country. Standing for life, protecting women's health,

(20:20):
and advocating for the unborn, which, by the way, protecting
women's health. I'm not really sure how it does that,
as well as no one's covering these costs, that's the
other part. But whatever, And I'm guessing most of y'all
already know the comment made by Representative Barry Hovas and
his about the whole consensual rape, which was a fun,
fun conversation and then the so called apology saying he misspoke.

(20:43):
But with our previous episode with Justin Boardman and d A. Samantha,
we know this is a common mindset which causes for
many people to not trust victims, and here not trust
people who could possibly be pregnant. We have another conversation
about not believing victims, and you have this whole what
consensual rape? What the hell is that it can't be
ripe for it's if it's consensual, which he did say that,

(21:05):
and he said he misspoke or in there somehow I'm like,
I didn't need to be or any of this, and
once again justifying the whole thing as being and this
is not stranger rapes and so therefore is it really right? Right?
And one more time, yes, yes it is. If a
parson said no, that's rape. Yeah, just because they're on

(21:29):
a date doesn't mean that they have to get they
have to have sex with somebody just because you paid
for a PHASI did, or you don't go them sex,
I'm done man um. So this Missouri law, doctors caught
violating it could be sentenced to five to fifteen years
in prison and have their license revote. Right, And as
you saw with Georgia and Alabama and many other places,

(21:50):
doctors will be prosecuted, can be prosecuted for assisting and
places like Georgia, if you go outside of the state,
that's still um he still could be charged if you're
if you're a citizen of the of Georgia I guess
in a resident of Georgia and you go to another
state that allows for a warship, you can be prosecuted
for those same charges as if you were in the state. Yeah,

(22:13):
and I saw a lot of um comparisons. To imagine
or think about how many states where it's legal to
gamble and you go to you go to that state
to gamble, and then you don't come back to your
hope state expecting to be arrested. UM. Anyway, we have
some more for you listeners, but first we're gonna stop

(22:34):
for a quick break for word from our sponsor, and
we're back, Thank you sponsor. UM. One thing before we
go into some of this some more state facts. Texas, Florida, Arkansas,

(22:59):
and Utah have also passed laws and restrictions around abortion.
And on a side note, is also worthy to take
note that Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, and
West Virginia only have one abortion clinic in their states,
so it's obviously that these states don't have much access
to begin with. At least thirty eight states have laws

(23:21):
that treat fetus as potential victims of a crime apart
from the separate mothers, so they're like a separate entity.
Crimes pregnant women can be charged with and this is
from the New York Times is a very helpful article.
Fetal assault, depraved heart murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, feticide,
child abuse, delivery of controlled substance, chemical endangerment of a fetus,

(23:43):
reckless energery to a child, concealing a birth or death,
abuse of a corpse, neglect of a minor, attempted procurement
of a miscarriage, and reckless homicide, and that abuse of
corpse charged by the way was a law originally put
on the books to prevent necrophilia or destruction of a
body um or at least provide means to punish those acts,

(24:03):
but it is now used by prosecutors to punish women
for having a miscarriage. There are rare cases of pregnant
women being charged with a crime after falling down the stairs,
being in a car accident, eating poppy seed bagels, or
taking jugs prescribed by their doctors um And there are
laws that require still mores get a birth certificate and

(24:25):
that to nine women say and end of life decisions
laws like this and the ones being enacted now that
give more rights to a fetus while at the same
time stripping rights from women, like the right to consent
to surgery, or to hold your baby after it's born,
or receive treatment for a medical condition. As far as
end of life decisions, thirty one states have laws that
do that on the books. Twelve of those disallowed doctors

(24:48):
from following a woman's wishes when it comes to removing
life support even in the early stages of pregnancy. In
nineteen other states, even given a living will, women can't
make decisions around their own end of life if a
viable fetus is in the mix. Some have language specifying
even in cases of extreme pain. And I really wonder
how this is going to affect when it comes to

(25:09):
the idea of domestic violence and or control with a partnership,
because I know a lot of there has been a
big debate about um, who has the right over a fetus,
and then who if the father can have more say
than a woman and all of that, and this could
be a big contingent of power that not necessarily about
the child or the fetus. It's more so about control

(25:32):
over that woman. And this is a really dangerous precedent
that could happen, whether it's a woman's choice or not,
and binding them into a hard situation. Again, and remember
many times in domestic violence situations and or um child
abuse situations. If the wife or the woman or the
partner rather is a victim and doesn't do anything to say,

(25:54):
prevent a charm of harm from a child, prevent harm
from a child, they can be also prosecuted for neglect
or endangerment. And I know at least several of these
cases that I've seen or worked with, the partner who
is the victim is a victim, and it's disregarded oftentimes
more than anything else. And so you have to think

(26:14):
about how hard is this going to be even the
future responses for DV types of situations. Yeah, there's a
lot of stuff I think that gets left out in
this whole conversation. There's a lot of other things going on. Um.
Some activists think that both Row versus Wade and Plant
parented versus Casey have legal loopholes in them protecting the

(26:37):
legal right to an abortion, but also the interest the
state has in protecting a fetus's potential life. But most
of these laws that put the life of the fetus
at the pain and risk of life of the woman
don't protect the fetus or the pregnant party like they
don't succeed in either right, UM, most of these laws

(26:57):
are new maybe around and asked, Many anti abortion activists
say that punishing a grieving woman for having an unintentional
miscarriage is a small price to pay if they can
abolish abortion. From conservative activists and founding president of the
Heritage Foundation, Paul wi Rich, I believe that if you
have to choose between new life and existing life, you

(27:19):
should choose new life. The person who has had an
opportunity to live at least has been given that gift
by God should make way for new life on earth. Yeah.
We I won't go into how messed up that comment is,
but I think I do want to put this out
there too, because I know some of the conversations that
I have, especially coming around about abortion and UM pro

(27:42):
life probably choice, those two conversations that happen. We're talking
a lot about the fact that the male politicians, white
male politicians seem to have one interest, and I think
they do. I think there are a lot of them
who have whole other ideas and controlling women in general.
But I do believe that there are those out there
who are very passionate in saying they want to save

(28:04):
lives UM, and I'm not going to disregard that as
something that's out there. I get that, I get that
in your um, in people's minds that this is a
baby and they want creation, and they have examples of
people who are unwanted pregnancies to begin with end up
being who have benefited others and have been helpful, have
done amazing things. And I'm not disregarding that at all.
We're not saying that that's not something to consider and

(28:27):
being passionate about. But what we're talking about is more
along the lines of this is dangerous, This is a
dangerous precedent, and not only UM, the fact that people
are not trusting people who can be pregnant, which to me,
I trust my nieces and my you know, and myself
and I will date the choice that is best for me. UM,

(28:47):
as well as the fact that there are just whole
ideas about people, especially late term um abortions, which by
the way, is not typical and the only time that
truly really happens is because of medical conditions. UM. Just
hearing the heartbreaking stories that I've heard from people, UM

(29:08):
who wanted these these children or this child couldn't because
of whatever medical problems that occurred, and just watching them
grieve over that, and then sitting here watching them discuss
this type of arguments and this type of um laws
coming into fect, how it could actually affect them, and

(29:28):
how it's traumatizing to see them being placed in the
port of like, oh, you're against life, when all they
really wanted was to create this life and love this
child and into their home and bring them into their home.
And I think that's really problematic that we ignore that
and seem to be flippidly saying, oh, they did this
on purpose, yeah, you know. And I think that's another
part of the conversation. We want life. I treasure life.

(29:52):
That is my job. Like I try to care for
the because that come into the world without any help
and who have been pushed back or abused or neglected
or you know, completely disregarded because they are now old
enough to care for themselves, and why won't they type
of conversations, This is what I do. This is what

(30:13):
I'm passionate about, and I want to be there for them,
and I want to help them and advocate for them.
But the truth of the matter is this whole idea
of it just being pro life versus you know, anti life.
If you want to say that way, that's not true,
that's not the conversation. And just easily saying you're murdering babies.
We get that. No one wants to murder babies. Let's
just put that out there. That's not a thing. That's

(30:35):
not a thing. But at the same time, this is
the bigger issue. This is a bigger point. Who are
we criminalizing Why are we criminalizing them? How does this
affect individual women to being healthy and honest and upfront
about what they need, how to get the care that
they need. Like again, I know this is all like

(30:56):
kind of a rant right now, but I don't want
it to be said that is just oh, yeah, we
we don't like babies. Yeah, this is not I don't
know how else to say it. There's not that's not
a thing, I know. And that's why a lot of
people are trying to relabel it as bro choice and
anti choice. Um right, yeah, And I mean we didn't

(31:20):
go into it too much because, like I said, there's
so much content and I'm sure a lot of you
know it, but yeah, late term, a lot of the
miss out there their myths like and also we've heard
story after story, and we even did one specifically when
we did the Ireland episode UM of women being taken

(31:41):
to hospitals and like having extreme long, difficult miscarriages because
they weren't allowed to have an abortion um and the
babies UM. And then in the case of the one
in Ireland, she died as well. So this is dangerous, right,

(32:01):
This is absolutely dangerous as well as the fact that
and to put it bluntly, and I'm so sorry for
those who have gone through this to have a a
stillborn still inside of you and have trying to carry
that the full term. It's already traumatic. It's already tramatic
to have to give birth to uh, something that is
no longer living that you love automatically. Let's just go

(32:23):
ah and put that there. And these laws are problematic
in itself because of things like that. Yeah. And one
other thing that um, I find really upsetting, and I
know a lot of people do, is that there aren't
any support systems in place oftentimes for raising these children UM. Right.

(32:44):
And again I say this as a person who works
and worked with foster care systems. The argument that many
people have is that no one truly supports the foster
care system, more kids in out of home placements, and
it's very true we don't have enough funding to help
these kids. We do the bare minimum. Hey Christmas, Christmas
time comes around and all of the churches give free gifts,

(33:05):
which is wonderful. Please we appreciate that, thank you very much. However,
they need they need more than just gifts around Christmas time.
They need family atmosphere they need and when I say family,
someone who could care for them. But it's hard to
love those who don't know how to be loved. Let's
try that. And because people are being told you need
to have these children and single moms, you are miracle workers.

(33:27):
I want to go ahead and put that out there.
You have a job, probably for those who have one
job trying to figure out how to care for a
kid taken to school and not neglect them. If you
don't have a support system, you're already screwed. What that
buy that? I mean like a family or they care
free child care. That is problematic too. And then we
talk about again when we talk about the foster care system,

(33:50):
there's so many kids ages eight and older who have
no home because they're troubled, they have had issues because
of things that they have gone through. And I can
guarantee you any of these kids you meet are going
to have to have intensive counseling. It's really cute, these
little integreen gables, fairy tales that happened, or you know,

(34:13):
any the orphan who are all just ready to be
picked up and love you. It is gonna be amazing.
That doesn't happen people. That's not misleading is wrong. Um,
And I know how I've scared many people away from
being a foster parent because I get really honest and
I'm like, you need to be ready for this, because

(34:34):
one of the hardest things that I see in the
system is because who are not wanted. And when I
say that, I mean kids who are passed around from
foster care to foster care, group home to group home,
from family person one person to the next, and they
learn very quickly how little they're worth. Yeah, So if
you're really pro life, what does that look like? And

(34:56):
I don't mean because you want to be given the
sainthood and for bringing a child into your home. That's
not how this works. This is this is difficult and
whatever you think you're going through, that child has gone
through even more and that's the thing is how do
we help How do we help a system that does
not benefit people who are in bad situations who are

(35:17):
trying to make a life for that child, whether it's
a single parent trying to figure this out and trying
to get the job that they want, trying to go
back to school, or trying to keep their job and
not being able to be afforded helping these kids. Or
when you have a school system that is so punitive
that at any types of trouble they kick them out,
so therefore the kids have nowhere to go even after

(35:39):
the fact. There's so many things wrong with the system.
And and and I'm going off again, However, this is part
of the problem here, is like we want to talk
about birthing children. Got you that happened? Now? What? Yeah?
And we're talking about restricting food stamps and what they
can get with food stamps. We're talking about doing drug

(35:59):
screams for those people so they can't get food stamps,
or we're talking about wick and cutting back on some
of that health care. We're talking about the fact that
we're taking away insurance for people. How does that help
those who live and those who are alive? Mm hmm.
What do we do? Why haven't we focused on that

(36:20):
because we're placing more value and the people that have
not been born yea yeah. Um. And another part of
this argument that we won't go too much into, but
it is very important, is the fact that um, like
restrictions around getting birth control or insurance pro writing birth control,
so um, the difficulty of preventing an unwanted pregnancy so

(36:43):
that you will never have to get to this abortion
because we're even having to have a definition of what
is abortion with birth control exactly. And then we talked
about there's already a conversation about making education abstinence only
once get Oh yeah, there's so my scause. I think
I just ignored it all together except for health classes
we had to sign for emission form. I think that

(37:06):
was it. Um. As well as the fact that the
administration once again is pulling back um, birth control as
preventive medicine. Yeah, but at medication is still free for all.
Fantastic Yes. Um, A rectile dysfunction is what I mean here,
because I got corrected once about it probably meaning eating disorders. Um. Yeah,

(37:29):
So so there's that as well. UM. And then there's
also the conversation We had around racism with this because
I saw a popular argument that our population is declining
because of abortion. And no, just no, Um, it's going
down for a lot of reasons. Hardly anyone can afford
to have kids. There's no maternity leave or affordable childcare. Um.

(37:53):
Those are just off the top of my head, like
a lot of reasons. Um. And it's not aborgins, it's
not abortions. Um. And also this is a pretty white statistic. Um,
we care when white women aren't having kids, but inversely,
we don't want women of color, people of color having kids.
And by we, I mean people in this country using
like the role. We're not not us um. And there's

(38:16):
a long dark history of forcibly sterilizing women of color,
eugenics and abortions that we definitely need to come back
and revisit. Right. And then a few years ago we
had that incident in which the judge forced that upon
a black woman, saying either you go ahead and get
sterilized or you go to jail, as if that's a choice,

(38:37):
and that was given to a woman of color. Right,
And and here here's what I'm gonna say. This is
an outright attack on people of color. I'm gonna put
that as a statement. Let's be clear, the pre row
legalities targeted poor or women of color, including refugees and
black people, and where and is more likely to be
charged and criminalized under the new laws and policies. And

(38:57):
with that, it's already recorded. The maternity more city rate
is much higher for people of color, three times more
likely than any other race um according to the CDC.
So I think when I say it's an attack, it's
an attack because you see people who talk about welfare
are of that stuff. When we see all of the
languages within the legal talks, it neglects women of color,

(39:21):
black people specifically in all of their conversations. Essentially, Yeah,
and it's no coincidence that this is happening in states
that have done their best to redistrict and restrict voting rates. Right,
And there's been many comments involving Stacy Abrams and the
current issues prevailing our system with suppressing voters. And as
we speak, there are now forms of voting that could
very easily be corrupted. The new ways of new tallying

(39:45):
systems and the computer systems we're talking about is very
dangerous about what who and what is neglected. Yeah. Yeah,
So there is a lot at play in this conversation,
and because it is emotional, I think a lot of
times it just boils down to you know, I don't
want abortion or I do want abortion, but you've got

(40:07):
to think about all of this other stuff as connected
to it. UM. And we do have a little bit
more for your listeners, but first we have one more
quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back.

(40:30):
Thank you sponsor. So, UM, we did wanna have kind
of in our concluding segment maybe what you can do
I think options, UM. But before that, I just want
to say that this is really about control UM and
women not being seen as people but as baby production factories. UM.

(40:53):
And with some of the statements and extreme possible consequences
that they also show a lack of concern for women
situation that they're facing. The quote from Alabama bill sponsor
Senator Clyde Shambliss demonstrates this because when he was asked
about why the bill didn't apply to the destruction of
fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization, he said, the
egg in the lab does not apply. It's not in

(41:15):
a woman. She is not pregnant. So I mean that's
pretty clear that if you if he really believes that
conception is at the moment of fertization, like the bill argues,
it's what I'm trying to say, don't you've literally said
it's not in a woman. So um, ways that you
can get involved, vote, vote. I know we've kind of

(41:39):
like put it through on the water well. I mean,
and if you go and look at your stays, you
can see what seats are coming up. Run. Yeah, I
love that idea. If you have a passion, run, um.
I think that that is something that is important. And
if you have the you know, the clean background check
um cleanish kandish cleanish will say. And also if you

(42:03):
don't want to run, you can support someone right you
believe in. You can be involved in their campaign, you
can help organize um, you can donate, you can always donate.
You can speak up. I know there was it was
trending on Twitter, just like share your experiences, and they
were trying to get men to be share their experiences
as well. It sucks that the onus is always on

(42:24):
marginalized folks to tell our stories so that people will
treat us like human beings right. Yeah. Um, a lot
of states have specific organizations you can volunteer for or
donate to as well, so I would check that out right,
And as we spoke about earlier, there's still there's still
access to abortion care all over the country and none
of these laws have completely come into effect yet. Um,

(42:47):
so volunteer. There are many clinics who need people to
be escorts. We already know it's scary en't have to
go forward and make significant decisions in regards who wants body,
but to have hate and intimidation surround you. Honestly, I
can't even imagine that trauma uh having an allied support
in just everyday life. I know that something that is
benefited and was wanted and is asked for. And that's

(43:09):
the way. One way that you could actually be there
in the fight is to be a hand, to be
a literal shield them as they walk to do something
that may be already incredibly difficult and a huge life
decision for them. And if not, it maybe just something
they can have someone to talk to and just be
there with them, because not everyone has that support system, right,

(43:30):
I know, I say it all the time, but sex djucation,
it's clear that a lot of the dude is making
these laws have no idea how the female body works.
Example after example of them trying to still don't understand
some of the female body parts. So like that explanation
of like the topic pregnancy. Oh my god. UM, so

(43:50):
it's maybe too late for them. We should get them
all in our room and just be like with you. Um.
And just also in Georgia, there's a mass discussion in
the entertainment industry and how they should proceed. Obviously, Georgia
has become a big hub for a lot of the
entertainment production companies to come through and film here, and

(44:12):
a few of our production companies have already pulled out. Um.
And I know several actors have already stated they would
not be a part of any film or project that
filmed in the states that have these new legislations. So
Jason Bateman's already made a statement that if the Georgia
law passes any of the um blocks that he would
not be filming here. The Ozarks is one of those
that is filmed here. Um. But so I have a

(44:36):
like uh when it comes to stuff like that, because
I understand why bands are necessary and protesting like that
is necessary, but for those who live in this community,
like you and myself, we need allies. So when people
just abruptly leave, we lose allies, we lose any kind
of stance that we really have, and we start backtracking.
And I would say, in the last few elections, I've

(44:56):
gotten a little more hopeful because we feel like I
feel like we're progressing in a big way. Um. But
then you look at people like Jordan Pill and j
j Abrams who has a different approach which they're about
to start filming here as well, and instead of pulling out,
they said they would be donating their whole um profits
to UH fund against these legilations. So I think that's
even bigger, Like we're gonna have someone behind us with

(45:19):
a little more money, because get our individual sales don't
have the money that a lot of the politicians and
a lot of these UM lobbyists do. So having people
like that saying they're gonna give us money to help
fight it, that's to me a better way, maybe because
I live here and I want to proceed to fight
for it instead of just letting it be UM. But yeah,

(45:42):
it's a really hard situation. How how would you how
does someone handle this without being over the top. And
of course there's also the debate that um, I know
the right the conservatives have said that the that the
entertainment industry has its benefit this at all any way
to begin with, it's just the way for them to
let save money. And that's kind of true for sure.
But we've also got an uptake go on um jobs, Yeah,

(46:04):
we did an episode on that a while back, because
I do work in the entertainment and and like, yeah,
the numbers are squidgy, but I would I would argue
that we have made money. It's just hard to say
how much. Um, And yeah we have. We have jobs,
we have new infrastructure in place. Yeah, it's I think
it's worth saying. As at the top of the Planned Parenthood,

(46:27):
I believe it says, um, abortion is still safe and
it's still legal, Like, um, these are all its influx.
It's happening very quickly. It This fight is in no
way over right, um, and we do we need allies
and um and it's not just the seuth no obviously,
as we are looking around and the new bills are happening. UM,

(46:48):
I like how it's been kind of specified as if
it's just a southern issue in southern country people, but
it's not. It's the thing everywhere. And as people about
any of these kind of morginalized issues is global. It
is um and we are now highlight get more and
more because of the newest administration. However that it should

(47:11):
be seeing this is everyone's fight, is not just one
state fight. Yeah, and this this about brings us today
into this episode. I know that people have very strong
feelings about it, so I hope that we can continue
the conversation and get some of the There's so much,

(47:35):
there's so many things to tackle here. But I I
think that this community, the people who listen to this show,
I'm always so inspired, UM buy them hearing them. So
we would love to hear from you. Um, what are
you doing in your state or in your country? Because
we have international listeners. You know this has been very
United States specific, but UM, if you would like to

(47:59):
email us you kind and at our new email Stuff
Media Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. All email
you send to the old one will still get there eventually.
You can also contact us on social media. We are
on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You and on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our

(48:20):
super producer Andrew Howard and Andrew, and thanks to you
for listening Stuff I'm Never Told to use projection of
I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from
I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple
podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows