Women in Coding with Skillcrush

Startup entrepreneur and computer coding evangelist Adda Birnir talks with Caroline and Cristen about feminism, why women should learn to code and how she started Skillcrush to teach coding to the female masses. Media files

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you from how stupp
works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen. Today we are playing for you
an interview with Otto Bernier, who is the CEO of
learned to code website skill Crush. And it's pretty awesome,

(00:25):
as I can attest because I actually took classes from
the Lovely auDA and skill Crush, and we wanted to
talk to her a little bit about coding because of
the issue of women in technology and more in general,
women in stem fields. We did a four part series
you might have heard of it on women in stem science, technology, engineering,

(00:47):
and mathematics, and we wanted to dig a little bit
more into the t of that series. That's right because
in that episode focusing on women in technology, we talked
about in general, how, for instance, women earn only eighteen
percent of the computer and information science degrees and we

(01:07):
make up a minority of the computing professions. And it's
people like Otta, though, who are these coding evangelists who
are not only educating but also energizing women and girls
to get excited about coding because of all of the
potential professional benefits that come with it, because folks, if

(01:30):
you are interested in a growth industry sector, coding is
absolutely that. And as we mentioned in that technology podcast,
the interesting thing is in the history of computing in technology,
programming was originally considered women's work because they thought that
it was at first like a low level clerical job,

(01:52):
hence good for women, but it was gradually masculinized. And
now there is this massive need to get more women
and also younger girls engaged with coding because of how
many coders and programmers and developers we will need as

(02:14):
the Internet becomes even more a part of our mobile lives.
Right because the numbers are taking such a dive in
terms of women in these fields, in nine of all
undergraduate computer and information science bachelor's degrees went to women. Now,
according to the Department of Labor, only eighteen percent do.

(02:37):
And so as the basically as the coding industry, as
uh computer and information science blows up and expands, there's
gonna be all of these jobs that need to be filled.
But with the number of women in this field declining,
that's gonna leave a whole lot of empty seats, won't it. Yeah, exactly,
And um, there are right now only of computer programs

(03:00):
in the United States who are women, twenty two point
one percent who are software developers, and thirty seven percent
of whom are web developers. So obviously there is this
massive gender gap in computing and encoding in particular, which
is why people like autibor Near and services like skill
Crush are so crucial. And Caroline has had personal experience

(03:26):
with skill crushes services, which is actually how we got
in touch with Auta to begin with. Right. Yeah, I
decided that I needed a life skill another one. Why
not because I couldn't learn to juggle. So I decided
to try to learn to build a website. And I
found skill Crush. And not to gush, but Otta herself

(03:46):
is wonderful and the skill Crush website itself is very intuitive,
very helpful. Their program is pretty darn great. They kind
of gear themselves towards young professional women or or really
professional women of any age who feel like they just
don't have the time to learn. Yeah, and so we
wanted to talk to Auta not just about coding and

(04:06):
skill Crush, but also get her perspective on women in technology,
why it's so crucial that more women get involved with it,
And she also has insight into being a digital entrepreneur
as well, so we had lots to talk to Auto
about and we really appreciate her taking the time to
chat with us. Yeah, so here is our chat with Otto.

(04:28):
We hope you enjoy. If you could just tell us
who you are and what you do. My name is
Automer and I am the founder and CEO of skill Crush,
which is an online learning platform. Awesome. Well, Otta, could
you tell us a little bit about your background, both

(04:48):
a little bit personally and what led you into the
tech field. My first foray into technology really came when
I was working on an online magazine and I had
gotten a job as the photo editor, mostly because I
had I knew how to use Photoshop, which I knew
from being a digital photography major in college, and um,
my job. It sounds fancy, but it was really just

(05:09):
two crop images and upload them into the content manasiment
system for the online magazine all day long, and it
was super boring and luckily I um got really good
at it, so I was able to do it in
like a third of the time that I had to
do it in, which left me a lot of time
to sort of look around and see what everyone else
was doing at this magazine. And I was really lucky

(05:30):
that they had stuck me. They just sort of by
chance put me in the production department, so the editorial department.
And basically what was happening was that, you know, you're
at this online magazine and there's this thing that drives
everything and it's like this like engine that keeps the
lights on um and it published as to the web
every day, and I was just I became fascinated with

(05:53):
like what that was, like what did it look like?
Like what like how is it that we were able
to produce this magazine? Like if we had been a
print magazine, like you would have like seen a big
printing press, so it would have been like shooting up papers,
but you don't have that when it's online, and you know,
and I would look at these guys who were sort
of in the corner and they were all like, you know,
curiously typing away, but I didn't know what they were

(06:15):
typing or what it looked like, or you know, it's
like it's like where was it, Like where was this
thing that was like you know, this the engine? And
it just became fascinated and it was and I think
that that sort of fascination is like part of what
it is so fun about technology, but it's also what's
really what makes it really challenging and I think really
off putting to a lot of people because it's unlike

(06:36):
like an engine, where you can sort of pop the
hood you can see the car engine. When it comes
to code and technology, you can't really see anything like
it's all it all sort of you know, compiles down
into like electronical signals, and it's not something that we
can visualize and touch and feel and sort of assemble
and understand how the pieces come together. So I think
that's that. You know, that was sort of the like

(06:58):
where I was really because I was like, where where
is this code? Like? What is code? What does it
look like? Where does it exist? Um? Where do I
find it? How do you see it? How do you
edit it? Like? How do you know which part to edit? Like?
It was just this like huge mystery to me that
I didn't understand um, And so I basically started to
ask all those questions of you know, where is it,
what does it look like? Like, how do I see it?

(07:20):
How do I edit it? And um? You know, it
was really lucky that one of my managers basically took
pity on me and started answering all my questions and
started showing me coulde um and then started eventually letting
me actually like you know, write a little bit of myself.
And that was really my first introduction into the technology industry.
So how long did it take you to go from

(07:42):
that point of just curiosity and starting to understand what
code is to being proficient at writing it? So there's definitely, um,
there's sort of many different layers along the continuum of
you know, started like the first time I ever saw
code to like being quote unquote proficient. And one of
the things that I think that a lot of people

(08:03):
who haven't started to learn technology skills really like they
think that it's um going to take a really long
time to get to the point where they have practice
like knowledge that's good enough to be practical and useful
to them. So honestly, like probably within like you know,

(08:24):
I mean, I guess like from when I started to
learn how to write code at all to when I
started putting that that those learnings into practice was like
really only a couple of days. At that point. I
couldn't have built a website from scratch, but I could edit,
and um, you know, the magazine publish all these email newsletters,
and so what I was doing was sort of editing

(08:44):
the content in email newsletters, um, and really getting paid
to learn. And it was immediately useful, like it just
like the Italian is a little bit of knowledge was
super useful in terms of my understanding. Like I remember,
I had this manager who kept yelling at me because
I kept mean the image files incorrectly. And then finally,
and she kept telling me this, and I kept forgetting

(09:05):
and I kept you know, naming them incorrectly again, and
she looked being mad at me, and finally one day
she explained to me that the reason was because the
code had the image file names written very specifically, and
so if I didn't write them in the same exact way,
it wouldn't find the image and so that she was
having to go back and rename all my image files.

(09:25):
And it was such a revelation to me because I
was like, oh, now I get it, Like You've given
me a reason for why this is useful, and I
feel like that's that's the kind of thing that kept happening.
It was like all of a sudden I started to
understand these rules, like I started to get why you
had to name things in a certain way and why
you had to organize them in a certain way, because
I started to understand what how things were organized on

(09:47):
the inside and why it really mattered those decisions. And
so even the tiniest little bit of knowledge was super usual,
like from day one, and then um, when I started
to actually learn how to build websites from scratch, it
probably took like a couple of weeks to where it
was really useful information. Um, you kind of have to
play around with it, I think for a while and
get your brop you head around it. But um, honestly,

(10:09):
probably than a month I had built a website and
was talking my services to other people, and not for
a lot of money, granted. But one thing I told
my students over Nuver again is that you know, like
the number, like the goal number one through like nine
is get it to work, and everything else after that
is just the cherry on the top. A month is
so fast too. But it's a lot faster than I

(10:32):
thought you were going to say. Yeah, I mean, look
like it's not like I was like some coding like
wonder kid with a don't, but I had enough knowledge
to take advantage of to be able to actually do
something that was useful and that I can show for myself. Well,
So at what point did you go from you know,
building website and working at this magazine to creating the

(10:55):
startups plural that you created? So, um, I I worked
at the online magazine, and then I worked at a
design agency, and then I was unemployed for a while.
So it took probably like from the time when I
first started to understand all the technology stuff um Adobin
magazine to when I actually started the company was about

(11:16):
two years the first company, and the first company was
the design consultancy, so we basically designed and built websites
mostly produce organizations. UM. So that took about two years,
and that was sort of that came on the heels
of sort of about a year and a half of
freelance work for me. So I had been working for
clients freelance on the side UM while I had a

(11:38):
full time job. And then after about a year or
a year and a half of that, I decided took
a full time and you know, and it wasn't at
the time, like I didn't really think that I was
starting a company. I just thought I was kind of
going to expand my freelance career um, and it largely
just came out of a lack of other options. Just great,

(12:01):
Like I you know, like I have, so much of
my career has been just a reaction to like what's
been going on in the economy and sort of the
lack of really interesting and exciting opportunities. So um, you know,
I've created my own opportunities. And what's really amazing is
that because I had these technical skills, I've really been
able to do that successfully. I think one of the
coolest things too, about your career path is how you're

(12:21):
now taking what you learned and kind of stumbled on
and are now empowering other women in particular with it.
And so if you could just talk a little bit
about that idea for skill Crush and why make it
focused on women in particular? Sure, So, I mean, let
me first just talk about like what the inspiration for

(12:43):
skill Crush was. I had a really conversation with the
friend of mine about is actually just yesterday which I
will tell you about, which is I was sort of
describing to her, like why I think it's so important
that people learn digital technical skills and what you have
to gain from it. And we were sort of laughing
because it was it's kind of like, I think it's
kind of this opportunity that everyone has at this moment

(13:04):
right now just kind of cut the line, like we're
in this moment where like all like everything is in
a state of enormous flux because um, things are changing
so rapidly and it's having such an enormous impact on
every industry. And like for me, like I really saw
this play out in the media industry, but it's now
starting to play out in education and healthcare and all
these different fields. And what I saw, you know, in

(13:27):
two thousand was that if I was willing to like
think about media from a technical perspective, I really got
to cut the line. Like I got to go from
being you know, this like little peon who was like
begging some editor to publish me to um, you know,
just like opportunities just like doors were flying open like
all of a sudden. I was working for profiblok on

(13:48):
the New York Times, the huffing the post and building
them web app locations, um. And that was that really
happened in the matter of just like a year, a
year and a half, and it was entirely just because
there was there's such an enormous knee for people who
are technically capable in these fields, and there's such a
lack of qualified candidates. And the thing is, though, this
isn't an issue of like you can cut the line

(14:10):
and cut in front of a bunch of people, Like
there is no lack of opportunity, Like it's like everyone
can cut the line. Like everyone can go from kind
of like you know, slowly climbing some corporate ladder to um,
really like getting you know, really exciting more seeing your
positions where they get a lot of power just because um,
it's just because it's just it's like the wild West,

(14:32):
and nobody really understands what's going on, so anyone who
does understand what's going on has such an advantage. UM.
And the thing that I was seeing, you know, in
these companies, was that the people who seem to sort
of see that and see the opportunity and really be
taking advantage of it, we're just proportionately men. And it's
not that women aren't really insightful and can't see that

(14:53):
kind of thing, but for whatever combination of reasons, I
think that women have been taught that technology and science
and math and all those fields are um, you know,
difficult and scary and boring and non creative and um
you know, like involved, like I think with computer science,
and I think that women, a lot of us women
have internalized that computer science means like you know, robots

(15:19):
and sitting in basement by yourself, being smelly, um, not
talking to anyone for days at a time, like you know,
typing ones and zeros, which is not which you know
may have been what it looked like at one point
in time, but at this point in time, when when
when technology and the digital spaces like is growing so
rapidly and there's so much happening like that isn't at
all the kings that it's incredibly creative, it's incredibly forward thinking.

(15:41):
It's about thinking about really constructively and interesting you know,
world problems and figuring out how to solve them with technology. Um,
it's really about making of all the better place. It's
about Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's like everything
one would normally hope for and like an exciting growing career,
and um, unfortunately, I think women are just held back

(16:02):
by this kind of cultural myth that we have internalized,
and I just thought that was I just was watching
it play out in these companies and it was really unfortunate.
And the truth this is that women still make less
than men on average. Um what's exciting is that that
gap is much much smaller in technology. But at the
same time, like, if women don't take advantage of this

(16:24):
opportunity now and sort of get in on their ground floor,
like we have a lot to lose. And so that's
kind of where my mission for scille Fresh comes from.
Like it's it's not the skill pressure is exclusively for women,
but um, I just sort of looked at the competitive
landscape and saw that there were quite a few sites
who were, you know, sort of teaching these skills and
talking about this opportunity to people, but their audiences were

(16:47):
overwhelmingly male. And I just felt that, you know, someone
has to sort of sing the siren song to the ladies,
and so that this is my personal uncle. I like
that the sirens song of of lady coders. Yeah, it's
not even you know, it's about being a coder, but
it's also not necessarily being a coder. Ray it's just
about understanding what this all looks like like what is

(17:10):
this engine? What does it look like? It doesn't mean
you literally have to be dissembling and putting it back together,
although I think that you should have enough skills that
should you end up, you know, like stranded on the
side of a road at two a up on the
Internet Highway, um, that you can if you have to.
But um, it's really just about like understanding how this
all comes together from like a like a really like

(17:32):
fundamental perspective and and not like a sexual perspective. Like
it's not about you know, a website quote unquote, it's
about like, okay, a server is like you know, you know,
it's in this place, and this is how it connects,
and these are the programming languages that use it, and
I know you know how to hire someone to write
that programming language, and I know how to identify a

(17:53):
bug if there's a bug, and all of that well. Um.
In our Women in Stem series, you know, we talked
about startups versus more established, older corporate companies and how
those environments can kind of depend on the people who
work there. And one of the things that we touched
on was the difference in how welcoming or not welcoming

(18:14):
those environments can be for women. And so you know,
as as a woman who jumped in there into the
startup universe, what do you think of you know, how
it is out there for women in that in that arena. Yeah,
So this is a really an interesting question because I
think that the startup scene has like a proposation of
being very sort of fatty and you know, beer pawing

(18:35):
and you know, video games from late night and all
bed that is absolutely part of it. But what the
benefit of the startup scene is that it's being created
as we speak, and so there's a lot more opportunity
to sort of you know, come in with a fresh
perspective and really implement that. And so what's interesting is
that although you know, most companies are started, most sort

(18:57):
of high growth tech companies are started by men, and
most BC friending goes to men, and there's a lot
of sort of inequalities in that space. Um. You know,
the place where women really do the worst is actually
on technical teams in large corporations. Um. And that's actually
where you see the worst gender ratios. And I think
that has to do with the fact that those are

(19:17):
sort of very um, old school places that have a
very old school mentality that is very not friendly to
women and isn't able to change quickly. But what's great
about startups is that, yes, there are the startups where
it is a very masculine culture, but there are also
startups that are working really hard to attract women to
their companies, and there's just in general, Like I think

(19:38):
it's like, you know, in this moment of creation, you
have a lot more opportunity to create sort of the
new reality or what you want to see. Um, So
I think that, you know, I think that although like
I said, like there are sort of weird gender n
with the play out in the startup seeing like the
benefit you have if you create your own company is
that you get to make it whatever you want to be.
So um, in my experience, like you know, with my

(20:02):
own like I think about like the clients I've worked with,
Like I just have had so much freedom and flexibility.
So if I didn't like a client, you fire them.
That was like a great moment for us when we
fired our first client. Um, it was weird and counterintuitive,
but it's fantastic. You know, you can make those sorts
of choices that like, you know, if you're working at
a big company, like you can't decide to fire the
client because they're sexually harassing, for example, like that's not

(20:24):
an option for you, or if it is in the option,
you know you have to go through like a hundred
layers of bureucucy to accomplish something like that. But in
the startup you don't. You can make that decision. So
I think that there is a lot of reason for
women for like, the startup seemed to be a really
really friendly place for women, and I think it's just
about women sort of entering it and mass and making

(20:46):
sure that that happens. Um. Well, I know that you
were part of a PBS video talking about women in tech,
and I want to crib one of the questions that
they asked you because it's a fantastic question. Um And
they wanted to know how you thought that the world
would change with more women in technology if I'm getting
that correct, So, so, how will the world change? Yeah?

(21:09):
I love this question. Um. So, I think like one
of the problems I see in the technology industry right now,
and this is something that I hope to combat with
skill Crush, is that there is an over fetishization of
technical skills and sort of technology for the sake of technology,
And so I think there's, um, you know, there is
a little bit of the cult of the developer, you know,
like the Rooming Ninja and the rock Star and like

(21:32):
all this kind of like oh, they're so good at code, um,
and you have people sort of spending on all this
time and energy and money, um, you know, perfecting these
technological beats, but that are effectively solving problems that nobody
really has right. So, yes, like the code is really
beautifully written and it runs really fast, but like, you know,
who needs another photo sharing app or what have you.

(21:54):
And so I think there's a lot of energy that
and talent that's sort of being wasted being applied to
something that isn't really worthwhile. And um, I don't think
that there are I wouldn't want to say that, like
men are incapable of understanding like what is a worthwhile
pursuit or worthwhile use of their time or or anything
like that. But I think that women in general tend
to have a slightly better sense of like what are

(22:17):
real problems that really need solving and what are problems
that are kind of nice to have and I think
that in general, you know, what happens when you have
an industry where, um, you know, one group really dominates
is that you just have kind of like you have
group think, right, and you have like blind spots that
they can't help but have. And so one of the
opportunities with you know, women coming into TACH is that

(22:39):
they can really start to expand the conversation and start
to think about um, you know, issues that maybe the
people who are currently in the tech community just like
aren't even aware of that can be solved with technological
solutions and really, um, I think you know, my friend
says like, it's like, let's solve bigger problems. And I
think that one of the great things that we will
see as this industry diverse advise is that I think

(23:01):
that the um, you know, the impact it will have
will be much much greater, and I think that it
will start to solve a much more converse out of problems.
And I think it will really um you know, I
think I really do believe that I can really make
the world a better place and um and I think
that women will play a big role in that. We're
wondering how your feminist perspective, How do you think feminism

(23:25):
and gender influence your professional work in particular? So, I think,
I mean feminism it's like my religion, right, Like, I
think feminism affects everything I do, um in terms of
how it obviously, you know, feminism has obviously played a
huge role in my thinking about skill crash and sort
of identifying the indequalities that are at play in the

(23:46):
technology industry and then thinking constructively about ways to solve them,
you know, for me, like I know that as a teenager,
the things that made such a big difference in my
life and sort of like you know, it made me
so happy, made me feel like there was hope in
the world. Um were I would? You know, we're a
lot of sort of the interesting and sort of at
their work by a different feminists that came before me.

(24:09):
And a really good example of this is girl dot com,
which was a you know, supposed to be like an
online web portal for teenage girls and um, I actually
didn't ever or I didn't see the web page until
much later, but they published a book called Deal with It,
and it's just like the most hilarious take on like,
you know, puberty and your period and your boobs and

(24:30):
sex that has ever been created. And it's this amazing
book that has all these totally ridiculous illustrations in it,
um that are really super explicit and like like kind
of X rated, but like you know, and like the
way that it is appropriate for you know, educational quote
quote educational book. And it just was like, you know,
my thirteen year old self was like, oh, thank God,

(24:50):
someone understands me, because like, I just want to know
what all this stuff is. But I wanted to be
sort of you know, given to me in in finding
crazy colors and like wacky way, like you don't want
to you don't want to look at those clinical like
you know, this is how sex happens books. Um. And
it was just so inspiring and I feel like it's
basically inspired everything I've done since and um, and that's

(25:11):
including Skill Crash. So I just think that, you know,
like what I'm trying to do is say, like I
think that there is like it's like there's these technology
skills and then there's like lots of cool things happening
in the world, and there aren't enough people who are
sort of you know, building the bridge between the two
that are explaining like, here's how you can take these
technology concepts and skills and apply them to like real

(25:33):
world problems that are really um useful and exciting and
that will you will care about in your life. And UM,
I know that that doesn't sound like a feminist pursue,
but for me, it's all about thinking, like, here's this
group of women who I know who are really intelligent
and smart and doing these really exciting things, but they're
not taking advantage of these skills that are available to them,
that really have the ability to like be like rocket fuel,

(25:56):
you know, to their careers and their work. And so
for me, it's all thinking, like, how do I bridge
that gap in a way that's gonna speak to that
audience specifically, because that is an audience that I'm really
excited about, you know, empowering these skills, um, and that
is entirely a feminist from my perspective. And I also
just believe in, you know, laughing. So that's where the

(26:16):
comedy comes in, and I try to try to make
it funny. I don't know if it actually is, but
I think there's such an intersection though, of feminism today
and technology, because over and over and over again with
the podcast. It circles back to themes of either activist
communities that spark up online like uh you know formerly um,

(26:37):
like LGBTQ communities that have found each other online. All
of these initiatives for girls and women happening online. This
is how we're talking to each other, this is how
we're learning that. Oh, other people are experiencing these kinds
of things as well. And I think it's so powerful,
and it's so much fueled by technology, you know, And
I just I mean, and I think that's amazing about

(26:58):
technology is it just opens up a world. I mean
it just like, Okay, so one of the things that
I remember reading Bitch magazine there was like it was
like chat rooms for like paraplegic like lesbian feminists, and
I was like, thank god, they have a place finally,
you know, like only the Internet could make that possible. Um.
But you know this, I mean, I we worked for

(27:19):
years with a guy who was paralyzed from the neck
down and was our developer, and it's just it's just
amazing to see what the Internet is able to enable
people to do. So people who previously would have had
such a difficult time being employed and sort of being
able to have their voice be heard, can participate in
these conversations. And you're right, like you can connect with
people from I mean like like cool fresh we connect

(27:41):
with like you know, crazy Zamy coding feminists in Australia
and like how awesome is that? Like I don't you know.
So it's just it really does it. It just expands
your ability to communicate and commune with people, um in
this really terrible way. It was interesting to see because
um as Auta knows, I took the skill Crush class
and it was interesting to see as a student, like

(28:03):
the different types of women who were communicating with one another.
You know, they were taking coding classes for all different reasons.
They were all different ages, they were from all over
the place, and it was actually really welcoming and it
was really welcoming and funny and lighthearted environment to learn
code in. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is that
like there's just there's no reason why it has to

(28:23):
be like dark and not friendly, right, But unfortunately a
lot of the community and the stuff that's been built
has been that and I think that people take like
people sort of make the leap that that is because
it is that way, Like that technology sort of like
inherently is you know, dark and scary and technical or whatever.
But I don't think so. I think that just has

(28:44):
to do with the personality of a group of people
who sort of were the first of doctors and that
and their personality has been kind of like imprinted on
technology writ large. And I think that, um, that is
not sustainable. It's not it's not functional. As technology becomes
a big and bigger industry and it becomes more and
more important, and so you know, like the way I

(29:04):
think about skill crashes, that like this stuff has to
go mainstream someday, like it's really good, like for in
order for the American economy not to like crumble and
fall off into like you know, half into the Pacific
and happen to the Atlantic. Um, it's gonna happen. Like
people are gonna have to understand what the hell is
going on, and they're not going to be able to
access the current materials to learn that information. So you know,

(29:26):
so we need sort of this like big upswelling of
people who are able to kind of translate things into
a more friendly, inviting, fun kind of material that people
can learn from. Well, I do know though that we
have a lot of younger listeners as well, and girls
learning how to code is something that comes up obviously
a lot in this conversation about women in stems. So

(29:48):
if we do have middle school, high school girls who
are listening, I mean skill crush something that they could
hop onto as well and start learning. I mean, is
or is there sort of a age minimum there's I
think you know, legally it has to be like thirteen
or you have to have a parents for mashion. So
let me say that, um No, I don't think that

(30:09):
there is an age my amum, or an age maximum.
I mean, we've had people as young as twelve with
her mother's permission, and as old as sixty six. As
far as I know, they may have been even older,
but they didn't just tell me. Um. I do really
believe that skill fresh you can have a really broad appeal. Um.
You know, I think that there are also like there's
tons and tons of resources. There's tons of stuff like

(30:31):
better is more cured towards kids, so um, you know
sort of there's this programming which is called scratch that's
very visual all that is cured towards kids. Um, there's
Daisy Dinosaur, which is an iPad app that some friends
of mine make. That's really amazing. That's for an even
younger group of kids. UM. I would say, like the
one piece of the vices I'd like to give younger
women who are listening, UM, is that you have to

(30:54):
remember when it comes to coding, that it doesn't matter
how long it takes you or how difficult you find it.
It's just about out if you're able to do it.
Like if you're able to build a website, it doesn't
matter if it takes you a week or a month
or a year. Um. The only hum that matters is
that you're able to do it. So it's really important
not to get discouraged and not to feel like because
it's taking you longer than someone else, that you're bad

(31:14):
at it, or that you're not meant for this. Um.
None of those things actually matter. And UM, it's really
all just about finding, you know, how it fits into
your life and how you can have fun with it
and figuring it out. Yeah. Well, um, thank you again
for coming on. Is there any any parting words that
you would give to listeners of all ages about either

(31:35):
women in tech or coding skill crush anything like that?
Any any final myth busting about women in technology. Um,
you know, in terms of myth busting, like the number
one concerned I hear from people or that then it's
sort of the top level concerns I always hear from
people is that they think they're too old, too busier,
too I think actually stupid is the right way to
put it. But they sort of like don't think that

(31:55):
they have the technical chops to do it. Um. And
you know, first thing is that coding is not mathematical,
So people have this idea that there's a lot of
math involved. So Caroline, you tell us like, was there
a lot of math involved? Was still crush? No, not
that I was aware of. You're hiding him from you. Now, Yeah,
there's not a lot of math involved. If it is,

(32:17):
it's it's simple sort of arithmetic and you know, long
division things like that. But the computer does it all
for you. You You just need to be able to set
up the the equations. Um. There is no age limit.
So we have had women's all those sixty six and
they have done great in the program. And in terms
of being too busy, the thing is that you know
you very well, maybe the very balilously person and I

(32:39):
can't really speak to that, but even just a little
bit of knowledge can make such a big difference. So
I really encourage you to take whatever time you have
and learn what you can in that time and then
otherwise just like to like repeat like like the importance
of the web and the Internet is only going to
grow like it's not. This is like, you know, there's
no risk to you, you know, sort of like you know,

(33:02):
putting a lot of time resources into this and that
to not pay off like it's going to pay off hugely,
and um, the opportunity you know, if you look at
so we put out this info graphic that was about
the short fall in UM it's basically like the number
of open positions that they project. Um. Yes, by the
year they project that there's going to be over a
million open jobs in being technology fields, and they project

(33:27):
that there will only be about three thousand people with
computer science degrees to fill those jobs. So that means
that there's a shortfall of about you know, seven positions
that are gonna be open that won't have anyone who's
sort of traditionally qualified to fill those those positions. And
what what that means is that there's a huge opportunity

(33:47):
for people to fill those positions. Um. And by and large,
you know, people in the technology fields make around double
the national average for salaries, so this is it's more money. Um.
Technolo oology companies were most likely to allow people to
work remotely and have flessible work schedules. Um, there's a
huge freelance market for people who have technology skills, which

(34:10):
means you have a lot more autonomy and fossibility to
a career like I just there's so much opportunity, there's
so much money, there's so much freedom, there's so much creativity,
there's so much flexibility available in this market. And if
you want to be more employable, if you want to
make more money, if you want to have more control
over your career, like, this is really the industry to
get into. And um, these skills are totally learnable and hey,

(34:33):
you've got what seven six or seven years until so
they should be enough time. Yeah. I can build a
website or two in six years. Yeah, we can be
coding podcasters, code as we podcast Yeah. Yeah, that'll don't
really get us in the door, I'm sure. Um, well,
this has been great, AUTA, thanks so much. Yeah, thanks

(34:53):
for talking to us. Can you, um let people know
where they can find out more about you about skill Crush.
Pop out to our website. It's skill crush dot com,
um s k I L c r U s h
um you know side to make sure to decide it
for our ten date email boot camp. It's sort of
our you know, ten day quickly do it in five

(35:15):
minutes a day. Learn all the important technical terms that
you'll that you need to know so that you understand
what you're choosing between. And it's a great um I
think primary introduction to everything that is the way great. Well,
thank you so much, appreciate it. Thank you so again.
We want to thank Otto Bernier, founder and CEO of

(35:35):
skill Crush, so much for taking the time to talk
with us about her journey into coding. For me, it's
inspirational to hear about entrepreneurial women like her who are
really forging the way for other women, helping us all out. Yeah,
I mean, I think she's a great example of somebody
who really not sound cheesy, but really took the initiative.

(35:58):
You know, she was her career half was going in
one direction. She was seeing that the economy was you know, crumbling,
and she really just took the reins of her own
future in her own career and made it into what
she wanted it to be. Yeah, and we should also
mention that skill Crush is part of an entire community
of coding organizations like Girls who Code, Women Code dot Org,

(36:20):
and Black Girls Code that are specifically designed to train
up female coders. So it's really neat to see how
other women like Otta are reaching out to girls and
women to help fill that technology gender gap. And I
hope that we have some coders and programmers and web
developers listening right now because we'd love to hear from

(36:42):
you as well. Mom Stuff at discovery dot com is
where you can send your letters if you have any insight.
Have you ever been a female coder on a team?
What was it like where you were you the lone woman?
There often anecdotes about that, but with the work that
Atta and other people are doing, the lone female coder

(37:04):
will hopefully be an anecdote of a bygone tech era.
So right to us mom Stuff at discovery dot com.
You can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast and find
us on Facebook and leave us a message there. And
we've got a couple of messages to share with you
when we come right back from a quick break and
now back to our letters. So we've got a couple

(37:27):
of letters here to share from our episode on child Prodigies,
and we have a letter here from Megan. She writes, Hi, ladies,
I love your episode on child Prodigies and I had
so much to say about it. I'm fifteen, a high
school sophomore, and while I wasn't a child prodigy, I
grew up in the enrichment and gifted programs my school offered.

(37:49):
You mentioned the stress that comes with the gifted label,
and I certainly can attest to that. There is a
certain expectation that comes with being in those programs. For example,
students in my school had to have at least an
eighty five average, and it can be very overwhelming. There's
also the expectation that you should be the smartest student,
no matter what class you're in, and to help the
other students comprehend the subject. Looking back, it seems pretty

(38:13):
damaging to make a twelve year old field dumb for
not pushing themselves to understand material two or three grade
levels above them. However, most of my peers, including myself,
were bored with regular classes, and we're thankful for the
challenge that the gifted programs presented. So thanks for that insight, Megan,
and good luck making those grades. That is a lot

(38:34):
to put on a younger person, but it sounds like
you're doing great. Okay. I have a letter here from Amanda.
She says, I'm sorry to say I was no prodigy,
but with an average i Q of one forty one,
I qualified as genius and was immediately sequestered off into
gifted classes for grade three through twelve. Just the year before.
In my second grade class, my teacher told my mom

(38:54):
she thought I needed to be in special Ed because
I never talked and didn't do my class work. Surprise,
I was bored. Now that I'm a mom, I will
admit that I do expect more from my children than
those of others. But it's also very tricky because I
know what pitfalls there are and want to help them
avoid them. For example, I was tucked awayne gifted classes
so long that when I finally took a j R. O.
T C class my freshman year of high school, I

(39:15):
blurted out, you don't know how to spell that. My
little brother just learned that in fourth grade. When my
squad leader asked how to spell something. Needless to say,
I had never learned how to be patient and explain
things to people. Because of this, I've decided to not
let my first grader skipograde just yet, even though she
easily could, because I want her to be able to
learn the social skills of being in a classroom and
having to be around people of varying learning styles and speed. Instead,

(39:39):
I tutor her at home and integrate learning into everything
we do. She still gets to be challenged learning about
the different cells of the body while her class is
still learning the difference between living and non living objects
like a scooter versus a lion. Yes, that really was
a question they were at Anyway, I hope this was
at least a little insightful. Keep up the good work.
You're my favorite of all the how stuff Works podcasts,

(40:01):
and I love your new videos. So thank you, Amanda.
We appreciate your sharing your story and thanks for listening,
and thanks to everybody who's tuned in written in mom Stuff.
Discovery dot Com is where you can send us letters.
You can also follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts,
Who're on Tumbler as well as stuff mom Never told
You dot tumbler dot com. You can also find us

(40:24):
on Facebook. Of course, please like us while you're at it,
and you can also head over and like our videos
there at YouTube dot com slash stuff mom, Never told You,
and don't forget to subscribe for more on this and
thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.

(40:49):
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