Women Who Vape

The Oxford English Dictionary declared "vape" its 2014 Word of the Year, and it's not just men getting into vaping culture these days. Cristen and Caroline puff on how the rapidly growing e-cigarette industry is selling women on vaping and how it compares to how Big Tobacco lit up female smokers.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristin,
I'm Caroline, and today we are talking about East cigarettes
and vaping and Caroline, we are really getting in early

(00:24):
on this whole vaping thing because, unlike most Stuff Mom
Never Told You episodes, it's still so much in the
early phases of popularity that we don't even have hard
numbers as to how many lady vapors lady East cigarette
users are out there. Yeah, I know, well, but we

(00:45):
know they're out there because they're very vocal online and
forums and list serves and commenting under negative vaping press. Yeah,
and I and I know some lady too vape. I
know some fellows toovape, I know some ladies who vape.
But while I feel like most people have probably heard
of East cigarettes, not as many people might be familiar

(01:07):
with vaping. Um, so what are we talking about? Yeah,
so vaping it's part of the lingo, Kristen, some lingo
lingos slide neat, Yeah, let's refer to Urban Dictionary. Well,
it's it's basically just a term for smoking or puffing
on not really smoking an electronic cigarette and It works

(01:30):
by heating up a combination of a little bit of water,
some flavoring, uh, some some nicotine usually and the main ingredient,
which is propylene glycol and or glycerin. Yeah, and all
of this is called the juice. You may put on
some e juice sounds so gross to my brain, Yeah,

(01:52):
it doesn't. It doesn't sound very good. Although vapen on
e juice does not sound I'll be honest, it doesn't
sound appetizing, but it could. Okay, vape not a juice,
just I just slipping on gin and juice. I think
that now needs to be redone as well. And I
bet there is a gin and juice flavored e juice.

(02:12):
But that's that, Caroline. That's another podcast for a whole
different time. Um. But the way that the science of
this vaping is that this juice is heated to around
four degrees fahrenheit sorry Celsius users, um, and a heating
element in the electronic cigarette in the in the implement

(02:33):
ariostolis is that solution and then you inhale it an
unlike smoking an actual cigarette, Um, it's not necessarily as harsh.
It's obviously considered healthier because it's more vapor. I mean
it's water vapor as opposed to uh carcinogen enriched smoke. Well,

(02:57):
it's kind of water vapor. I mean it's not really
water or vaporite. There's some water in it, but there's
also it's mainly that glitzer in our glad Hall combo.
There's a lot of preservatives in there. And you know,
obviously if you're infusing it with nicotine. You people do
vape with just flavored e juice, no, no nicotine, but

(03:18):
you know you're you're still inhaling preservatives, metals and nicotine. Yeah,
and we're going to get into that question of whether
it is actually healthier because I know of people who
use them as a way to quit smoking or to
cut back on smoking. Um. I know people who do
it just because they enjoy the flavor, and people who
do it specifically as a healthier alternative to cigarettes. But

(03:43):
the fascinating thing about the cigarettes and vaping is that
it has not been around long at all. They were
actually first developed by a Chinese pharmacist, Han lick Um
in two thousand three under Dragon Night Cigarettes, and he
created it as an alternative to ye old smokes and

(04:03):
in two thousand seven, East cigarettes entered the US market,
so where it's still early enough that the FDA is
only now getting around to should we regulate this stuff?
How should we regulate this stuff? As the time we're
recording this podcast, for instance, there is no age restriction
on purchasing e cigarettes. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely on

(04:26):
the rise, because sales in the US surpassed one billion
in which was double sales, so it doubled in just
a year, and the Bloomberg Industries expects that this particular
industry will lap tobacco cigarettes sales by twenty seven. So
cigarette manufacturers are definitely keeping an eye on it. Yeah,

(04:48):
and they're getting in on the East cigarette game as well.
And when it comes to demographics, like I said at
the beginning of the podcast, it's still so early, we
don't have a lot of hard numbers on men versus women,
because in fact, a lot of the research, the demographic
focus research right now is really paying closest attention to

(05:09):
the youth market, largely because more of them are trying it.
More the kids of these days it's kids with a
z are vaping and it's again it's not age restricted,
and so the centers for Disease Control estimates that one
point seven million students in grades six through twelve, that's

(05:30):
ten percent of them in the US had tried vaping
in up from four point seven percent of students in
just two thousand eleven, and I'm sure since then the
numbers have gone up even further. And of course there's
concerns around it because of the whole gateway issue whether
kids will pick up cigarettes after they try vape bang,

(05:51):
And it kind of goes back to the whole cigarette
advertising issue, which we'll talk about more as far as
like Joe Cambell and how you can't they can't advertise
using Joe Cambell anymore because cartoon characters imagine that appealed
to children. Yeah. Well, and there's a whole health issue too.
I mean, younger kids have still developing tender, precious lungs

(06:12):
and like you think your line, it's not just water
vapor that they are inhaling. So a lot of public
health UM researchers are really looking closely at this issue. Well, so,
why why is it on the rise like so rapidly?
What is up with the rapid increase in the number
of vapors while there are all sorts of reasons. Um,

(06:36):
I think that it goes back to, for instance, why
han like developed the first one in two thousand three
to begin with as an alternative to cigarettes. There are
lots of smoking bands being enacted, um, all over the country,
all over the world, because we are realizing, oh, hey,
cigarettes are in no way, shape or form good for you,

(06:57):
nor is secondhand smoke. So but are allowed to smoke
cigarettes in places that they were. However, you can get
around if you still want to puff on something. You
can vape, and you can vape and all sorts of
dentalizing flavors. Caroline, you could also buy bubblegum cigars. That's
just my helpful, Um, is that what you puff on? Caroline? Yeah,

(07:17):
I carried around a blue bubblegum cigar at all times. Yeah,
she's cool among the kids. I really am, I really,
I really am. But yeah, So as far as the
helping people quit smoking thing, I mean that seems like
definitely a great benefit, but does it actually help people.
Studies have found that the cigarettes are as effective as

(07:37):
other smoking cessation aids. I do know that wasn't there
an issue though with like the f d A and
calling them smoking secession aids, Like, weren't you supposed to
call them something else because they haven't quite been f
d A fully in f d A vetted yet. That
sounds correct. Yeah, But so there was a twenty fourteen
study that shows you how like recent all of the

(07:59):
research into cigarettes is. But there was a study and
addiction that found that the cigarette users were six more
likely to quit smoking cigarettes than smokers who were going
cold turkey or trying patches and gum, which makes total sense.
I don't have a statistics in front of me on
the success rate of going cold turkey, um, but it

(08:21):
is to meet a person who goes cold turkey and
quits for forever on the first try. That person has
herculean willpower. It just rarely happened. And it's not only
the addiction to nicotine and tobacco, but it's even just
the feel of holding something in your hand, the way
that you use them in social situations like there. There's

(08:43):
a lot more to quitting smoking than just being like,
oh I don't I don't like the taste anymore. And
so the cigarettes have been, you know, very much touted
as a bridge between um smoking and being smoke free. Yeah,
and and it's not just an issue of helping people

(09:04):
kick the habit of smoking cigarettes. It's also, as we
mentioned earlier, a huge question in terms of public health
when it comes to whether kids are using them to
start smoking. Yeah, that's and and a lot of our
searchers with like the problem with this, the fact that
this is unregulated right now is that only time will

(09:24):
tell whether kids will transition from vaping to smoking tobacco cigarettes.
And we don't really want that to happen at all
because the jury is still out on the health factor. Yeah,
and so, I mean, obviously, as Krista mentioned, the cigarettes
are a healthier alternative if you're gonna smoke cigarettes or

(09:47):
you're gonna vape. Obviously, vaping is the lesser of two
evils because you're not actively burning tobacco leaves and inhaling
a whole bunch of nicotine and a whole bunch of
cancer causing agents and ex silling as harmful secondhand smoke. Right.
You know, although you know people who vape flavored the juice,

(10:07):
do be aware, you know, not everybody likes the smell
of artificial blueberries or or other or cotton candy. I
mean literally, like so many adventurous flavors, which to some
people probably standing around people who are vaping, that might
actually be the scent might actually be the biggest side
effect of that um. But according to tobacco epidemiologist John Spangler,

(10:33):
who was also a professor at Wake Forest School of Medicine,
he says, they are certainly a better alternative to smoking tobacco,
which is the leading cause of preventable death in the US.
And he was talking to Cosmopolitan magazine and I cite
that source because this is an issue that women are
talking about as well. Yeah, and so in terms of

(10:58):
health effects though, because there are some nicotine and tobacco
research study found that when that a Jew's cocktail is
heated to those super high temperatures, especially with the cigarettes
that come in these new variable voltage models, it can
release potentially toxic carbonyls, including formalde hyde, acitala hyde, aced tone,

(11:24):
so like the stuff that you use to take your
nail polish off and mute and all, although of course
at lower levels than comes out of cigarettes. And in
ten you see Riverside cell biologists Prude Talbot, whose name
I absolutely love, Prue Prude, Prue Talbot that sounds so
wonderfully Puritan UH found a high concentration of heavy metals

(11:46):
and silicates in the East cigarette vapor as well, and
it actually came from the heating element of the East cigarettes.
So yes, there are their chemicals and preservatives and stuff
in the vapor, yes, but there's also issues of that
super high heat and that liquid cocktail that's going on
in the cigarette heating up and releasing its own metallic

(12:07):
elements well, and even determining what someone inhales every time
they puff on their vape, which I feel like I'm
using incorrect terminology, um, but every time they inhale it is.
It's also hard to determine how much of these substances
are really going into their lungs because it's going to

(12:28):
depend on the concentration of chemicals in the juice, it's
going to depend on the voltage how hard you inhale UM. So,
for instance, as for nicotine, the amount of nicotine that
you might get into your system, the the the amount
listed for instance, even on packages might not always be accurate,

(12:51):
and you just don't know how much nicotine is being
inhaled with each pulse. So all of this to say
that it's it's it's kind of interesting to see how
researchers are only just now in the past couple of years,
grappling with how to even start figuring out what the
actual health effects are, what these things really can and

(13:13):
are doing to our bodies, because again, they haven't been
around long enough for long term studies to assess both
their first and second hand health effects, which again goes
back to why a lot of people are concerned about
the kids. Yeah, and especially since there is that whole
and we'll talk about this more in a minute too,

(13:34):
there's that whole sort of d i y culture around
the cigarettes too. There's a lot of people who make
their own, even legit manufacturers out there, all have different
designs that affect the vapor and the chemical load you inhale,
and your individual vaping habits can affect how much nicotine
or other chemicals that you potentially inhale, And so there's
a lot of variables out there that we're just not

(13:54):
sure about yet. Yeah, and at this point, I had
a feeling some listeners are wondering why we're randomly doing
a podcast about East cigarettes. What does that have to
do with women? We don't even have a precise statistic
of how many women are vaping. Well, that's because we
really wanted to after offering an introduction of what these

(14:16):
cigarettes are, because their popularity is growing exponentially. They are,
you know, they're so big at this point that Big
Tobacco is really paying attention to them and even getting
in on these kinds of products as well. And with that,
the vaping industry is targeting women. And this is such

(14:36):
a fascinating case study in how companies are are still
using very old techniques to engage women into starting up
new habits such as vaping. And this goes all the
way back to right after World War One, UM, when

(14:57):
the American Tobacco Company decided, you know what, we need
to get ladies smoking some cigarettes. How can we do that.
We need to get all these these flapper gals smoking
more of these cigarettes, see right, Well they do, Caroline.
So they hired a Mr. Edward Burnet's, who's considered the
founder of pr or as it was called at the time,

(15:19):
engineering consent to get women to smoke. Because you want
to make money, that's your primary objective, right, and so
you need more customers, and smoking was not considered the
most ladylike thing, especially for a woman in public. Perhaps
so she was at home alone in the drawing room
or something, she could smoke, but certainly not. It was

(15:40):
definitely considered inappropriate and unladylike and kind of trashy. But
there were pockets of women in New York City who
were flouting social rules. They were considered this thing you
call a feminist um and they were just not only
were they flatting like social norms and gender norms, but
they were also picking up cigarettes. They were starting to smoke,

(16:02):
because that was considered such a male habit to have,
and they were like, well, screw you were equal in
all ways, we might as well smoke too, And Burnet's
capitalized on this. Oh Bernet's was brilliant. He marketed cigarettes
as torches of freedom for women, and in nineteen nine
he famously staged this Torches of Freedom smoking demonstration during

(16:27):
the New York City Easter Day Parade, and it was
this whole thing of ladies, listen, you now have the
right to vote. You're becoming your own women, and if
you really want to be equal to men, well then
you should light up a smoke. And photos from this
parade are so fascinating because these women are just they're

(16:49):
essentially protesting and smoking and that's the way that they
are demonstrating their equality. And you have, like the male
allies to smoking alongside with them. Yeah. She, I'm cool,
She all right? Yeah. And I just I just have
to roll my eyes because and I mean, we're gonna
obviously draw parallels between this original cigarette marketing in terms

(17:11):
of drawing in women and the vaping marketing that's going
on too, But I mean this is just yet another
instance of capitalizing on social movements and sort of co
opting an entire movement of women into using it for
your own advertising and money making purposes. So just general disclaimer, people,

(17:34):
I just like to hammer home how aware you should
be of any marketing or advertising you're looking at, because
a lot of people love to capitalize on hot topics
of the day, and certainly women's rights and feminism were
a hot topic in that time, and we see that
very much too still today in what should be a
podcast for another time, with modern marketing and feminism and

(17:56):
sort of capitalizing on all of the conversations happening around
that today. Um. But in addition though to this whole
equality angle, Big Tobacco did focus their advertisements to women,
in portrayals of women in their advertisements. Um, they did
tie in female insecurities as well, because of course you

(18:17):
have to play on that to continue selling your goods.
And so as we Um talked about some in our
podcast on women in Chocolate and the fascinating marketing that
went around that was lucky strikes, reach for a lucky
instead of a suite, which the chocolate industry was really
frustrated with because they were like, Okay, well, ladies are

(18:40):
always concerned about their figure, so have a smoke, if
you're hungry, have a cigarette instead. You won't you won't
gain a thing, Caroline. And of course this is in
the context of the whole Gibson girl, our glass curvy
silhouette going out of fashion and these slim, slender flapper
silhouette being very much in vogue. Yeah, and you also

(19:01):
see with Marl bro It's advertisements that it's tobacco was
quote mild as may, so that ties in a more
feminizing element to the actual product itself, of oh, don't
worry if it's if cigarettes seemed like they'll be harsh.
Our as are mild as may prue, Oh prude, don't worry,
that's mild as may right. And of course Chesterfield Cigarettes

(19:24):
featured an illustration of a woman kind of just hanging
out with a cigarette. And it's this whole the copy
on the added so funny to me and so fascinating
because she's basically having a conversation with herself about like
should I smoke? Well, I mean I think, I guess
it's okay. I think I'll give it a shot. It's
not that bad, and she tells herself, after all, women

(19:45):
started to smoke just about the time they began to vote,
and what a convenient correlation. Um. And then Philip Morris
took it even further and just said, hey, believe in yourselves, ladies,
believe in yourselves. Light up. I don't. I don't know
what that has to do with cigarettes, but if you know,
believe in yourself, so inspirational. Yeah. Well, and of course,

(20:05):
I mean this doesn't even get us up to This
is decades before Virginia Slims famous um very like harping
on secred wave feminism of you've come a long way, baby,
you know, being like ladies. I mean, it's always been
kind of the Torches of freedom sort of thing. And
just just to drive home though, how intensive this pr

(20:27):
campaign was to really teach women how to smoke and
also to hey, believe in yourself. Um. There was a
feature in Life magazine, um showing this, uh, this woman,
this younger woman who was giving a demonstration to a
group of older women on the proper way to smoke
in public. And I just have to read this caption. Um,

(20:49):
men's pet peeves against women's smokers are messy ways of
opening packages, affected mannerisms, puffing like a steam engine, and lipsticks, mayors,
heaven goodness. And of course women's pet peeves about male
smokers were using dishes and dowsing butts under the faucet
and then dropping them in the sinks. So of course

(21:11):
women were being criticized for being messy and not feminine
and men were being criticized for just making a mess basically. Well,
also men had the lipsticks to me is on there
as well. That's another thing to talk about entirely. Um,
And all of this though, we just wanted to offer
this primer to keep in mind as we talk about

(21:31):
what the growing vaping industry is doing in terms of
marketing to women because they're pulling the same tricks out.
So we offered this refresher course to keep in mind
as we talk about how the vaping market today is
really targeting women in very similar kinds of ways. And

(21:56):
we'll talk about that when we come right back from
a quick break and now back to the show. Okay,
so right before we left off, we were talking about
the incredible efforts that the cigarette manufacturers and their PR
people went to to market cigarettes to women, because of

(22:19):
course it was considered a very unladylike to smoke at
the time until we got our whole framing of cigarettes
as torches of freedom. Yeah, they engineered our constant, that's right,
and who wouldn't want to torch of freedom? But so
when we look to vape marketing today, it's really not
that different. And well, I should preface this by saying

(22:42):
it's great to have more options, and it's great to
have alternatives to smoking a cigarette. It is always important
to keep marketing in mind and look at these things
with a critical eye. And Kristen and I looked at
this resource from Stanford that basically showed and compiled a
slew of vaping ads marketing marketing. These products on the

(23:05):
Internet and in other various places. And one of the
themes that I thought was so interesting was the whole
issue of freedom that was repeated over and over and
over again in these ads, and some I think are
even called things along the lines of like freedom or freedom. Yeah. Okay,
so we've got our torches of freedom. Now we have
like electronic freedom sticks basically. But yeah, it's that whole

(23:28):
idea that like, you're you're taking a social desire, which
is to not be oppressed by smoking bands anymore, and
to to be a free American, a free woman and
a free woman, and you're using it to market your product. Yeah,
it's it's fascinating to see how that that idea of freedom,

(23:49):
specifically you know, targeted to women has evolved. Um. And
on top of the whole freedom from smoking bands angle,
you also have health money saving because you're not buying
pack after pack. The flavors which will get into get
so hyper feminine it's mind boggling. Um. There's the celebrity endorsement.

(24:11):
I've seen, for instance, one ad with Jenny McCarthy. Um.
So another critical I don't always do as celebrities do. Um.
There's also the tech appeal, but you don't see the
tech appeal in terms of, oh, this is electronic, this
is like a cool gadget. You don't see that being
marketed to women so much, because because, of course, why

(24:34):
would women be interested in gadgets? Am I right? Ladies?
And Stanford points out that women are featured prominently in
pretty much all the cigarette advertising to appeal both to
women and men alike. So if it's meant to appeal
to men, obviously you have sexy babes and like, hey,
you could have me if only you were smoking a
coolie cigarette. And for ladies it's more like, hey, don't

(24:57):
you want to look like me? I'm smoking to be
sick ratte, I'm free. But of course there are so
many more marketing techtics that we haven't talked to, namely
the whole pinkwashing of vaping and East cigarettes in particular,
so much like as Krista mentioned, Virginia Slims and their
whole lengthening and slimming of the cigarette itself and their

(25:19):
tagline You've come a long way, baby. Now we see
sexy looking, thin pink pastel the cigarettes that are geared
specifically to women, and that's not to say that women
shouldn't have the option of having pink things. I mean,
who cares. That's great, you like pink, that's wonderful. However,
it is using feminization specifically to sell a product. Yeah,

(25:43):
and if you even just look at the brand names
of these cigarettes that are being marketed to women, it
is all I mean, it's very pink. But it also
uses lots of words such as culture goddess, vamp, vogue lady,
and vapor girl. And then of course there's the terribly
named nutrisig, which this should it nothing should ever be

(26:06):
named that ever, never, ever, because it's made worse by
the fact that their taglines eat less and satisfy your craving.
So it's it's a twenty one century version of Lucky strike. Yeah,
reach for a lucky instead of a sweet. And their
ads just show a lot of times show a woman
in a bikini lounging on the beach but probably hasn't
eaten in days because she's just puffing on ant sig.

(26:30):
And so it's to say, hey, don't you want to
look like her? No, I mean, you should never market
like non food things. And this is not even a
comment on nicotine. This is not a comment on cigarettes
or whatever, but you should not market non food items
or food replacement things as neutra anything. But I'll get
off my soapbox and pack that away now knows. I

(26:52):
mean it's an important soapbox because it's yeah, I mean
it's it's it's definitely it's definitely not an altruistic motive
of We'll put it that way. Um. There's also vape Goddess,
and vape Goddess comes in all sorts of flavors, such
as Fierce, which is tangerine, mental Ambrosia which is raspberry
citrus cream, guilty pleasure ladies who could resist it's cookies

(27:17):
and milk, and then Lotus which is honeysuckle green tea.
And I feel like my guilty pleasure flavor would takes
like a grilled cheese with bacon. Yeah, my guilty. My
guilty pleasure would be pizza rolls. Um, has anyone vaped
up pizza role eat juice? I bet that exists. We
have so many questions. We do have a lot of questions.

(27:39):
But on top of this, some companies are even offering
fashion accessories to go along with your eat cigarettes, including handbags, lanyards,
and even sneakers. And this reminds me of there's this
car and I'm forgetting the model name right now, that
was made in the fifties specifically for women, and it
was pink. Naturally. The second Mile came in lavender, and

(28:02):
it came with handbags, gloves and ellipstick case, all of these,
all of these little accessories. Well, it's all a woman
could ever want in life. Yeah, you're Eastig sneakers. Um.
But what's also fascinating too or how some of these
companies are also engaging in very ladies centric corporate responsibility

(28:24):
in quotes, initiatives such as South Beach Smoke as well
as ever Smoke donating funds for breast cancer awareness. Yes,
very easy when you're selling a pink product to tie
it in with the whole breast cancer Awareness month and
advertising for breast cancer awareness donations, which and of itself
is not a bad thing. Again, we're just talking about,

(28:46):
you know, advertising awareness. Yeah, and that does tie into
to this pinkwashing conversation. Um. But my favorite brand of
all the caroline was Catti in which brands itself as
the most feminine electronic cigarette in the world. That is
a direct quote ladies and gentlemen, and it has an
artistic rendition of a fashion model on each device. And

(29:09):
we went to the website because I had to just
see what this looked like. And it there's a section
where you could sign up for a newsletter, and I
think they even called it a lady newsletter. That's the
extent of their um, their their lady intense marketing. So

(29:29):
I mean, it's it's for us. If you were ever
I've ever thought that maybe the cigarettes were not for women,
well you were wrong. I feel like this is exactly
like the whole Bick Pen the Pen for Her controversy,
where they got the hysterical Amazon reviews like oh thank god,
I can finally write because I have a pen that's
just for me. That's for me. But it was interesting

(29:51):
too though, that Enjoy that's in j O y. Enjoy
King's e cigarettes were an official sponsor of the New
York Fashion Week, so this is another way clearly targeting
a female audience. And this was reported on in Cosmopolitan
and they quoted a rep saying they're targeting adult committed smokers.

(30:12):
And since a lot of models, hairstylists and others backstage
and fashion people alike smoke. We wanted to bring them
a less abrasive option. And I know that Mercedes is
often a fashion week sponsor. I could not imagine though
someone like Moral Bro fashion we brought to you by
Marl Brow ever happening. But because I think of this

(30:34):
perception of it being that healthier option, enjoy kind of
slips in that way. So and then if we turned
to Maria Irvin, who is the founder of vaping Vamp,
she was writing in Vape magazine about how women like
herself and a lot of other women out there, She asserts,

(30:56):
feel out of place in smoke shops. You know that
how environments like a head shop with you know, bearded
guys with dreadlocks, you know, looking at you weird because
you're a lady who walked in the door. Yeah, and listen, Caroline,
and I hold nothing against beards or dreadlocks at all.
This was more like in her description. And I will say, like,

(31:18):
there have been a number of vaping shops that have
popped up around Atlanta, maybe just in my neighborhood and
maybe I'm in a hot spot for vaping um and
they do often look very much like head shops. I
have not been into one personally. UM, But I could
understand when I was reading this post by her, it
made sense of like, oh yeah, okay, well that that

(31:39):
would that does seem like, um, the kind of atmosphere
you would encounter. Um. And she says quote e cigarettes
are perfect for women's social smokers who want to look chic,
elegant and trendy, which is kind of ironic because she
started this to help her daughter quit smoking. UM. So

(32:01):
you know, I guess it's again lesser of two evils. Um.
And when Jezebel reported on this, of course, they also
had a very skeptical eyebrow raised to the whole pink
washing factor, but they did say, you know, the sentiment
behind vaping vamps is admirable. It's the first independent e
cigarette company targeted specifically to women, and it's run by

(32:24):
a woman, and it donates parts of this proceeds to
Dress for Success, a nonprofit organization that helps financially struggling
women acquire professional attire for job interviews. So yeah, lady entrepreneurs,
we totally support that. But like you said, Caroline, I
think it's always wise to take a closer look at
that kind of marketing. And um, the jez Belle piece

(32:48):
was not surprisingly too very snarky as well, and there
were a lot of comments on that post from women
who vape and enjoy vaping who are like, we hate this,
these kinds of products, these hyper pink products, because that's
not we use at all. And especially if you, if
you're a true blue vaping connoisseur, you would never use

(33:12):
one of those eas cigarettes that looks like cigarettes. It's
more about hacking these hacking these gadgets in order to
you know, amplify the voltage the way that you wanted to, um,
get the kinds of flavors that you want, all of
that stuff. So there is this whole subculture developing around
it too, all right, That's exactly what so many of

(33:33):
those commenters also pointed out, is that there is this
whole vaping community and a lot of skeptical people. Fellow
commenters were like, vaping community. That's the silliest thing I've
ever heard. But I mean, you know, if there's something
that exists in the world, there is an online community
for it, And so a lot of people end up
trading secrets, tips, tricks, ways to sort of uh build

(33:57):
your own construct your own vaping East cigarette device, ways
to make your own juice, how to buy it, where
to buy it, um trading information about health information, uh,
safety tips, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, and there apparently,
or at least anecdotally, there are lots of women in
on it, although I will say that the biggest trend

(34:17):
pieces that I saw in Mashable, The Verge and also
really end up piece on Yahoo News as well, focus
mostly on guys who are doing these hacks and and mods.
But um, I know that there are women doing this
as well, So I mean that is kind of it
gets into the d i y culture. It gets into

(34:37):
the whole maker culture as well. I feel like that
those ven diagrams definitely intersect, and so it would make
sense that if you are more about like doing this
because it's a you know, your homebrewing and your hacking
and you're really making this thing and you're probably building
friendships around it too, I'm sure this kind of hyper feminine,

(34:58):
pinkwashed market would make you want to pull your hair
out as well. Yeah, And of course, at the same time,
there are plenty of people out there who welcome the
opportunity to purchase a pink East cigarette, you know, uh,
there was some comments somewhere where a woman was like,
I have a pink laptop and I wear pink all
the time, and so the fact that now I can

(35:20):
purchase a pink East cigarette, it's just perfect for me.
And so yeah, there's something out there for everybody. Yeah,
I mean, like note about avoiding famphobia as well. Pink
is not the enemy. It's more harping on these age
old things of like the Nutrius gigg. I feel like
that really embodies the whole thing of trying to sell
women more of this idea and this image that is

(35:43):
ultimately harmful for us, rather than harping on a color.
But before we close out, we do need to make
one mention about its health effects with women, because one
of the most commonly asked questions of the Internet when
it obviously e cigarettes is whether it's safe for pregnant women, Because, um,

(36:05):
I'm sure if that's I mean just a general question
people have, but if you are a smoker and you
get pregnant and you know obviously you know you're not
supposed to smoke, I mean, it is a natural question
to ask, like, well, these things are supposed to be healthier,
could I vape instead. Yeah. I mean, there was a
study this year that looked into the perceptions about the

(36:26):
safety of vaping, and a lot of people assumed in
the survey that vaping was definitely safer than smoking cigarettes,
and therefore it was okay to vape during pregnancy. And so, well, yes,
we've established that vaping is probably a healthier alternative to

(36:47):
smoking a cigarette. The fact is it can as any
cigarette can contain nicotine. And so if you are of
the opinion or the thought at vaping is safer than smoking,
then maybe you're more likely to do it well pregnant,
introducing nicotine to the fetus, whereas if you know cigarette

(37:08):
smoking during pregnancy is bad, you wouldn't be introducing nicotine
to the fetus. Yeah, and unfortunately the study didn't dig
specifically into the actual safety of it during pregnancy, but
the authors explicitly stated that introducing nicotine into your system
can be harmful or fetus is even at very low levels.

(37:30):
But as the FDA starts to figure out how it's
going to regulate this industry that's right now somewhat grassroots,
although big names are definitely getting in the mix. Um
I will be curious to see whether you'll have similar
kinds of Surgeon General warnings on the juice packages. Yeah,

(37:51):
and then issues of taxation and stuff like that will follow,
I'm sure yeah, and age restrictions. Um. So with this,
lady vapors, are you out there? Hello, I'm sure they're
out there, and I'm sure that they have a lot
to tell us about the community aspect of it, the
d I y aspect of it. And do you feel

(38:14):
like it is a sort of broy culture that you
have to break into almost or do you feel like
it's totally egalitarian and welcoming. Yeah? And why if you
if you do smoke any cigarette, why do you do it?
I mean, because obviously there's so many possible reasons. We
want to hear your thoughts. Mom Stuff at how stuff
works dot com is our email address. You can also
tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook.

(38:37):
And we've got a couple of messages to share with
you right now. We've got a couple of letters to
read here about our episode on vegetarianism, and this one
comes from Nicole and she writes as a vegetarian and
math teacher, I especially enjoyed learning about Pythagoras and may

(38:58):
start saying I'm following up baggarree and diet. I'm a
vegetarian for ethical and health reasons. I know I could
never kill an animal, and I don't feel comfortable outsourcing
that task. I also don't approve of how livestock is
treated and how many of our world's resources go into
meat production instead of meeting basic food needs globally. Additionally,
I find it to be healthier and a cheaper way

(39:19):
to live. I've not really gotten much flak about it.
Even when I started back in two thousand one, I
mainly met with an incredulous what do you eat? I
find this amusing, as I just eat regular foods like
most people. Spaghetti, pizza, eggs, salads, cast roles, sandwiches, soups, Caroline,
I'm hungry now. Funny story, though, I was making dinner

(39:40):
for my friend's family and decided to make strong enough
with tofu instead of beef. Their son, in his late
twenties at the time, was asleep while I cooked and
we ate. As he was enjoying his serving, he looked
over at me and said, this is really good. What
did you put in yours? He had no idea. He
was eating a vegetarian version clearly flavor trumps the act
toal ingredients. Thank you for a wonderful episode. I learned

(40:03):
tons and I'm glad to know I'm part of an
age old tradition. So thanks Nicole and Nicole you must
be an impressive vegetarian chef for making that shagen off. Okay,
I have a letter here from Brittany that is addressed
to C Squared. Hello, I like that. I like that too. Okay, so,
she says, I've been listening to Cementty for over a
year now after my best friend turned me onto it.

(40:24):
Your podcast has been one of the ways we stay
in touch despite living thousands of miles away. There's been
so many great episodes recently that I wanted to commend
you on, but the vegetarian gender episode finally prompted me
to write. All right, Brittany says, having been a loyal
vegetarian for nearly twenty years, I wasn't expecting to learn
a whole lot of new information from the episode. I've
done a fair amount of research on my own and

(40:46):
try to stay current on dietary trends and whatnot. However,
the link you discussed between vegetarianism and disordered eating was
not something I had any prior knowledge about. I found
this to be particularly intriguing as I adopted my vegetari
areanism at a young age. When I was hospitalized for anorexia,
after months of severe restriction, I began to eat again,

(41:06):
but opted to cut out all meat, poultry, fish, and eggs.
While my eating disorder has gone through periods of remission
over the last twenty years, I have not wavered on
my vegetarian diet. At no point during my various hospitalizations,
medical appointments, or nutritional counseling did anyone propose a connection
between my eating disorder and my vegetarian lifestyle. Not once.

(41:27):
Most recently, I entered what is considered one of the
top eating disorder treatment programs in the nation. While it
seemed unusual to me that a solid se of the
women in the program were also vegetarian, I did not
place much importance on the matter. Perhaps living in a
more vegetarian friendly state and having close friends and family
who were also vegetarian made me a little naive, but
I'm still shocked there was no mention made of the

(41:48):
link between vegetarianism and eating disorders. Well, I suspect that
I may have become a vegetarian eventually for ethical, environmental
and health reasons. In hindsight, my decision to make that
transition upon entering treatment at a young age, it was
likely driven by the desire to control what was going
into my body. Duh. I'm confident I will maintain my
vegetarian diet for the remainder of my life, but I'm

(42:09):
hopeful that my disordered eating will not be a constant
force in my daily life. Thank you for furthering my
knowledge and understanding about the relationship between the two. Well done, ladies,
Well done, Thank you, Brittany, and thanks to everybody who's
written into us. Mom. Stuff at how stuff works dot
com is our email address and through links to all
of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,

(42:30):
and podcast with this one and with links to that
Stanford site where you can see all of those different
kinds of lady eat cigarettes. Head on over to stuff
Mom Never Told You dot com for moralness and thousands
of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com