Citizenship and the Census

Every ten years, the United States conducts the census, a crucial survey of the country’s population meant to help Uncle Sam figure out how to plan infrastructure and distribute funding over the coming decade. In recent years, people have argued for and against including a question about citizenship on the census for any number of reasons ... including accusations of conspiracy. Tune in to learn more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome

(00:25):
back to the show. My name is Matt, my name
is they call me Ben. We are joined as always
with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond Most importantly,
you are you. You are here, and that makes this
stuff they don't want you to know. Let's begin today's
episode a little bit differently. We received an email. We

(00:46):
receive a lot of emails. Some of the best suggestions
for show topics come from our favorite part of the show,
your fellow listeners. This email comes to us from a
guy will call Jonathan B because that is his name.
Jonathan B. Says, good evening, gentlemen. I have two ideas
that I have genuine questions about, and it would honestly

(01:08):
like an open minded answer to I feel you guys
give a fair perspective and I'd like to hear your
thoughts on these matters. And Jonathan's email goes on for
a while, but he had one point that we wanted
to investigate today. In this episode, and it is the
U S citizenship question on the U S Census. Jonathan's

(01:28):
questions are why is this uh scene as offensive and
wrong to ask? And what about those who believe the
questions should be on there? How were their voices heard?
You know, these are pretty good questions, right. I think
a lot of people who have been paying attention from
two thousand eighteen two thousand nineteen, as we gear up
to the census, have heard at least about this debate,

(01:52):
and it brings us to some basic questions for everybody listening. Uh,
We're mainly going to be focusing on the United States today. However,
if you live in any country in the world, their
thoughts are there something like a census in your neck
of the global woods? Like you guys participated in the
last census, which was here, right? Yeah, I guess so.

(02:17):
I love I love that I needed to provide how
many people, including babies live at my current residents. I
think I did that. Was it like mandatory? Are I
gonna get in trouble? So? Like not doing your taxes? Wait,
you didn't do your census. I don't know. Like no
one came to me, no one brought me. When was
I supposed to like find it myself. I think you
get something in the mail. Okay, I guess I'm not

(02:39):
a good citizen. Was that? Was that? From the jump? Well,
it's it's tough because it's it's a matter of hurting
so many cats where a species where legitimately more than
twelve people can't seem to get along, right. That's why
we cut juries off at twelve. And now we're asking million,

(03:00):
hundreds of millions of people to answer questions, and we're
trying to get all our ducks in the roads. It's
a herculean, impossible task. And the census is a pretty
unique experience right here in the States. We've been pretty
pro census since all the way back in seventeen nine
at first census. UH. The census is mandated by the Constitution.

(03:23):
It was instituted by George Washington, and UH Ever, since
that point, our country has conducted one of these things
every ten years, every decade. As a matter of fact,
as we record today's episode, it is twenty and Uncle
Sam is once again gearing up for the census. However,
this time around, UH, it's it's become a little bit different.

(03:46):
As you could tell from Jonathan's earlier email. The census
has become a hotbed of controversy, and at least more
so than in the past. Actually, and it's become the
subject of no small amount of criticism as well as,
of course conspiratorial allegations. But to look at them, controversy
about the citizenship question on a census, we have to

(04:09):
start at the beginning. What the heck is a census? Actually, well,
here are the facts. Before we hit the facts. Well,
maybe this is a fact. It makes sense that the
census is having a really rough time. It's just going
through changes right now. It makes sensus. It makes sense
us because it's twenty three. It's number twenty three, it's

(04:29):
turning twenty three. It's like early twenties. You know. Really,
it can rent a car, No, not quite five. It
can't be president yet. Yeah, but you know it's it's
learning a lot about itself, I would say. And we're
and it really is interesting this episode. I'm really happy
that we're doing this. Just want to put that out there.
This is the kind of thing it is tough to

(04:51):
talk about. As was said by our you know, our
listener who who wrote to us there, we're gonna we're
gonna talk about some things that make us and you
and everyone in the world a little uncomfortable, but it's important. Well,
we didn't make you a little uncomfortable, we wouldn't be
doing our job right. A little just a little uncomfortable.
There you go. So let's let's get to the fact.

(05:12):
Just do it. Uh. The concept of a census is
in fact ancient. At least nine separate cynthuses UH censuses
Yeah are mentioned in the Bible. Historians don't quite agree
on when the first North American sensus occurred. Some argue
that the first one it was in fifteen seventy six,

(05:32):
two hundred years before America gained independence from the British UH.
Spanish King Philip the Second, who wanted information on some
of his colonies and what taxes they paid reasonable UH,
sent American Indians through what is now Mexico with a
list of one hundred questions. Slightly less reasonable. The Indians
spoke no Spanish, of course, so they recorded the answers

(05:54):
in hieroglyphics and made maps the same exact way. Very
interesting process us here. Others claim it occurred in Canada,
then known as New France, was connected by Jean talon On,
behalf of the French king. Talon apparently himself went door
to door during the winter of sixteen sixty five through
sixty six and counted three thousand, two hundred and fifteen

(06:17):
people of European descent. There's an important point here because
you'll notice when we talk about the disagreement over the
first census in North America, both of those possible predecessors
to the U S Census are also European in nature.
So it's quite possible say that the population of Cohokia

(06:38):
or something had their own version of a census, or
one of the empires in Mesoamerica. These are the ones
we know about because we have documentation. Can I jump
back to the Bible really fastly? I feel like we
just hit it, and then when I because we're about
to talk about why in the United States of the
census exists and what it's about. Right, the reasoning behind
having one in the Bible, at least, it appears from

(07:02):
a lot of the verses and the stories in which
those verses are contained, that the census was used to
keep track of certain populations, right, I mean all populations,
but very specifically certain tribes of Israelites are in there,
and it's the way it's spoken about in those verses.
It seems like attempting to make sure that those numbers

(07:23):
don't get too high or the or at times make
sure those numbers are rising, or make sure that those
people are located in the right region or not moving
into a neighborhood where they're not desired. Yeah, it's it's weird.
And also, did you, I know you like Mitchell and
Webb the Mitchell Web. Look, do you remember that sketch
about the Good Samaritan? Yes, I yes, I do. It's

(07:47):
so ridiculous. We see a little bit of the prevalent
uh and uh widespread discrimination racism in the Bible, just
based on on that sketch, which was written by atheists.
But it is still pretty hilarious. But yeah, I just
want to put that up there before we jump into
in the US, how uh, well, at least on paper

(08:08):
or in you know, um in actionable terms. The reasoning
behind the census, for sure. Yet, make no mistake the
first census in the US, as innocuous as it may
seem now, the first census was entirely meant to figure
out how many dudes were eligible to join the army.
How many people can we put on the ground with

(08:32):
guns in the trenches. How many people can we send
to die? Well, yeah, and where they are within the territory,
so like, how many men can be deployed from this area?
Right right? And this was a big project. Six and
fifty U s. Marshals took eighteen months to figure this out.
And they were flying by the seat of their pants

(08:53):
or their horses were running by the seat of their
hooves because they had They were literally taking guys quill
pens and whatever scrap of paper they could find. That
was the process, and going house to house and being
and asking, uh, asking like six questions, which we're all
did not age well. They aged like milk has read.

(09:14):
It would say, from questions like how many people in
your household are white freemen under over sixteen? How many
are white freemen in general? How many are white free women? Okay,
how many your free people? And then how many your slaves?
It was like that kind of stuff. No household income question,

(09:36):
no um, none of the more nuanced questions that exist today.
This whole project took more than a year, eighteen months.
It cost forty five thousand dollars. That's about one point
to five so one point to six million in today's cash,
And that sounds expensive until you compare it with the

(09:58):
cents is the one happening this year net month? In fact,
it is projected to cost fifteen point six billion dollars. Yeah, yeah,
it works out to a little bit less than a
hundred dollars per household. That's insane, is it? I mean
I don't I don't want to poopoo on the census

(10:19):
party anything, but is it really that valuable? Are there
not better ways to do it? To like do Nielsen's
like the way you do for television eating Nils are horrible,
I know, but it's at least you don't have to
go door to door. I mean you can get like
is it does it have to be like really precise?
Like when are we using this information for you're talking
about sample size of like as in Nielsen? I mean,

(10:42):
how do you blanket everything? Right? If you're because we're
talking about a little bit later maybe, but if right now,
if you're going to propose to do it electronically, you'd
have to guarantee that at least one person from each
household has access to the internet, a machine that can
access that in or that UH has the understanding, like

(11:03):
the full understanding of who all lives in that house,
you know, the income, the all the questions that are
included in the census. Um. I mean, it's obviously going
to go there, and it's gonna have to go there
at some point, I think, But right now, if you
try to do that, you would get a sample size.
It's a good point, man, It's it's also a good

(11:24):
point that the technology is outdated. There is in theory
and opportunity to get a better answer, But it sounds
like the I want to address the first question you
asked their knowl which is is this worth it? That's it.
That's a great question. The answer is yes, but maybe
not in the way people think. So. Now the census

(11:45):
is less concerned with figuring out who they can take
from a house and put on a battlefield and more
concerned with political power in the In the United States,
the main purpose of the census is to figure out
how many seats each state receives in the U s
House of Representatives. Since nineteen eleven, there have been four

(12:07):
hundred and thirty five seats in the House. Each state
gets at least one. Even if you're really small state
like Delaware in terms of population, you get one. But wait,
you might be saying, aren't there big differences between how
many representatives are in each state? And isn't that a
little screwy? Yes, you're correct on both both counts films.

(12:27):
Yes there's a big difference, and yes it is screwy.
Because these extra representational seats are apportioned by population or
assigned by population, the most populous states get the most seats.
That's why you have a huge state like California with
fifty three seats in the House representatives. And then you know,
like Delaware, Sorry not picking on you, Delaware, Alaska, and

(12:50):
South Dakota only have one representative. That's the legal purpose,
and that's where a lot of the conspiracy actually hinges today,
and the Constitution describing the census just listed as a
quote enumeration of inhabitants. But it's evolved into something else
along the way as our our methodologies and our metrics

(13:14):
get more and more sophisticated. Now this gives us a
window into the habits of people living in the United States. Uh,
and it tells us a whole lot about them. That's right.
I mean it does do kind of the same thing
in theory that the Nielsen pole does, um, in terms
of getting a demographic snapshot, right, it's a little bit

(13:34):
more of a looking for trends kind of situation. Right,
So we might be trying to see where the population
is growing, where it's declining, are people moving, how many
people live in the big cities, how many children are
there in average households. And then there's some controversial ones
that potentially are a little bit of a divisive how
these these might be used, um, what is the racial

(13:57):
and ethnic breakdown of particular regions and overall and all
this is important for a few reasons. It's great for
quiz shows like Jeopardy. Uh, these stats are handy and
and what the podcast industry a few years ago used
to call snack of bill Go ahead and cringe with
us to that one. Uh. Second reason it's important is

(14:18):
that federal and state governments heavily rely on census data
to budget for social welfare programs. Isn't it crazy to
get an update every ten years? Every ten years, sorry
for ten years, We're gonna use these statistics. We'll get
back to you, right, we'll get some updates here and there.
So if you're born the year after the census, you're

(14:40):
just got out in the wild for a decade. But
this is this is important too, because I want to
hit on that term. For some reason, the term social
and the term welfare have both become uh seen as
like bad words, right sure, but social welfare is part

(15:03):
of the duty of a state in one degree or another.
Some states in the past have have approached it differently,
like theocracies awards certain rights to people who follow the
state religion while punishing others. Uh. There have been more
nationalistic states, you know that only grant certain rights to

(15:24):
certain ethnicities. But if you look at every state, every
state in history, they have some form of what we
would call social welfare. It's sort of like if you
are in a country club, think of a country like
a country club. You paid dues in a set schedule.
Those are your taxes, and in return for that you

(15:46):
get certain things like protection from say another country club
that for some reason as an army or you know
what I mean, Or you get to use the golf course,
stuff like that. There there are perks to being a
member of it. Right, It's a club you a dues.
So it's mostly so you can get into darkened room
with other people of your social strata they're in a

(16:07):
different industry maybe, and steeple your fingers. Right. So it
is true that cities and private industry alike they use
these figures to do things like planning hospital expansions where
we've seen a lot of kids being born, let's put
some money into like you know, New York is exploding,
we need more maternity wards or something like that. And

(16:29):
that's just an example we're making up. But that pretty
much tracks where do we need to prepare for new
housing developments, Where do we need to build more schools? Yeah,
and that's a huge deal, and it has nothing to
do in this way. It has nothing to do with
performance necessarily, of like how a school is doing, how
a group of teachers are doing, or students are doing

(16:49):
on standized testing. That's a whole other thing. In this case,
it's just how many people are in this area and
how many schools are there? Butts and seats, right, that's it.
And this is a huge amount of hash. So we
said we named a pretty crazy number for the cost
of the census in it's gonna be over fifteen billion,
or as you said, old but a billion dollars. Yeah,

(17:11):
how how could that be worth it? Well, yeah, we
have to consider it's it's investing almost sixteen billion dollars
to figure out what to do with the more than
six hundred and seventy five billion dollars that federal and
state governments put towards public service and infrastructure. So this

(17:33):
data is crucial. It is so profoundly important. And that's
why everybody who lives in the US right now, everybody
who lives here, regardless of your immigration status, regardless of
your citizenship status, everyone is technically required by law not
only to fill out the census form, but to not

(17:56):
lie on it. Basically, I must have done it. I
must have just blanked it out because it was such
a benign activity. Yeah, I should have looked at it
as like doing my you know, social duty though, like
in the same way that you know, jury duty. Right,
But was a weird year. It just kind of happened
and then it was over, and I don't remember much
of it, honestly. Well, you would distinctly remember both of

(18:17):
you doing the census. It was did someone come to
your door? Did you get something in the mail. What
was the process like for you guys it was mail
or for me? Okay, well, I I remember because I
have I have certain there's no gotcha answers on the
census or there weren't um so that might be part
of why you don't remember it. But I remember any
government form like that because there are answers. There are

(18:40):
things I have to like legally put in that are
different enough that I remember when I write them down,
just because just because it's you know, it's one of
those things where you have to like check other and
then like you have to explain yourself. Have those These days,
I fill out things by hands, so and frequently that
alone would be like a memory jogger, you know. I

(19:03):
just have to say, remember, we are, you know, ostensibly
three white males, you know, mostly in this room, who
are like doing okay financially and all these things. Like
it's a different experience for us than it is for
a lot of other people. Sure, right, I mean, just
making sure to put out there just if you're talking

(19:23):
about my wife who's Cuban, it becomes a very strange
thing and what you're talking about having to kind of
clarify some things you know that there aren't. It's not
just a standard market box. And it's always a weird
it's always a weird feeling when you get a form
from a government or a large institution that says, explain yourself,

(19:45):
what's your whole deal? Are you? Are you? Are you white?
Are you Latin X? What kind which you know? What
I mean? Like those questions, Uh, those questions can seem
really off putting, especially this stuff about race or ethnicity,
you know, and there are a lot of people who
would legally put other especially you know, in the like

(20:09):
we have to consider now in many more people have
DNA test results. There are many more people who would
have normally checked just one one thing. You know, it's
going to be so interesting. And then they and now
they're like, well, I am definitely not just one thing,
because race is such a social construct to begin with.

(20:32):
So that's great, as like as the census approaches, so wow,
this is this is the thing though, this is the law.
Everybody who lives here, regardless of whether or not you
have your citizenship, you're supposed to fill this out. The
idea being that this this is a team effort, and

(20:52):
this helps us figure out where to put our where
best to put our collective dudes that we've been paying
all the time, aside from hospitals, aside from schools and
all that other stuff. There is a sinister side to
the census, but we'll get to that in a moment. First,
let's look at the census today. After a quick word

(21:14):
from our sponsor, and we're back. So the census today
this year, at least, it's already started. If you were
worried about the census for one reason or another, put
your worries in present tense, because it's happening now. On

(21:36):
January one, the U. S Census Bureau started counting populations,
and they actually started in the remote wilderness of Alaska,
specifically a rural Alaskan village called Tuksuk Bay or t
o k s o o Ka Bay. And this won't
hit the majority of Americans until mid March next month.

(22:00):
That's when households across the nation, including yours if you
live here, quite possibly, we'll start receiving invitations to complete
the census. You can respond a couple of different ways.
You can respond online, you can respond in the mail.
Uh they want to give you multiple avenues to let

(22:23):
them know who you are and what your deal is, right, Yeah,
it really is a fun season that we're in. You guys,
we get to fill out the Census and then immediately,
if you haven't yet, scrambled to get your taxes filed.
Oh yeah, that's right. I uh. You know what I
wish they would do on the Census is make it
just I know this sounds irresponsible. Make it just a
little more fun. Have some randomly distributed wild card questions,

(22:46):
like hypothetical like if you were an animal, what animal
would you be? You know, an VS section or a
mad lib right right? Yeah? And then maybe because it's
the Census, don't let people just right in the animal.
Just have them a choice of like seven animals that
have that are not particularly popular choices. You know, if

(23:06):
if the next Batman movie could contain any villain, what
would it be? And why allender Man? That would be
appropriate for the census in tax season? Count do you
guys remember are you familiar with DC comics calendar Man? Yeah,
there's a real calendar man. I look about. He has
no superpowers. He like an accountant by day. Like, no,

(23:27):
he has a costume that's just calendars. What's a superpower
can like he doesn't. He knows exactly what happened every
day of every year at any moment. He's an inventor.
He's a calendar themed inventor. So many DC villains have
no powers, They just have weird costumes and then they
have a thing they love. Like I was so surprised

(23:48):
that Captain Boomerang made it into Suicide Squad. Yeah, dude,
his whole thing is that he is he is a
Bogan stereotype. You know what a bogan is. It's an Australian.
I forget the redneck. Yeah, chav that that that that
has nothing to do with the census. Uh, Captain Bomber
And let us know your your weirdest DC villain. Let

(24:09):
us know who you think would be in a Batman movie.
And let us know what you think about the idea
of some mad libs or some hypothetical some fun questions
on the Census. What happens next? So we're at mid March.
People are starting to get the letters and now the
Census Bureau has to deal with one of the biggest
problems they will deal with in the course of their investigation,

(24:31):
which is finding people who have slipped through the system
or live on the edges of it. So that's why
they'll spend three days projected March thirty April first attempting
to count the number of people who are currently experiencing homelessness.
Only three days. Isn't that crazy? Only three days? The

(24:56):
number of people involved must be staggering. So they'll go
to shelters, They'll go to soup kitchens, mobile food vans,
they'll go to places on the streets. You know, every
city or town does have a place where you see
people who have to sleep rough. They tend to congregate there,
maybe for shelter or something. I wonder if they employ
any kind of social services assistance. I mean, I know

(25:16):
a lot of those organizations are so strapped for you know,
um resources already. I kind of think not. But I
also do think that just your average census worker going
into situations like that, that could be some potential for
some you know, tricky situations, I would think, right, Like, imagine,
imagine you are a census worker. You're a college student

(25:40):
who just found a cool temporary job, and you're in
l A. Uh and you're not You're not from l
A for some reason, You're you're unfamiliar with the territory
and you have to go to skid row, you know
what I mean, You probably want someone who has on
the ground experience and familiarity. I think that's a very
good point. Or just approaching a rural home somewhere in

(26:00):
Iowa or something, you know, or in Georgia. You know,
Georgia has a lot of separatist groups. The Sovereign State
of the Sovereign Nation of Georgia is one of my favorites.
That you know what they got in trouble for. Actually,
out of all their stuff, they got in trouble for
printing their own license plates and their own ideas. Yeah, oh, man,

(26:21):
but but but really, you know, walking onto someone's property
where there are laws in states that say you can
fire a weapon at someone and your property. Um, it's yeah,
that's a terrifying thought. Sticking a dog on you, for instance,
or maybe even accidentally. I had a you know, I

(26:41):
had an old associate who took a job in two
thousand ten working for the Census because he liked the
hourly pay and he had some war stories. Man, he
had to he had to drive out into the Boonies
and met a few people who were convinced that the
Census was a sign of the end times. Government over
each that there were things in the Book of Revelations

(27:04):
and their version of the Bible that we're tracking with
what was happening now, specifically with the census, and how
social Security numbers are, the number of the beasts and
things like that. You know bar codes, man, exactly, Yeah,
like the UPC thing. So so here we go. These
these people are trying their best, and then people working

(27:25):
for the Census Bureau are not. They are not participating
in some sort of vast, overarching conspiracy, or at least
not consciously. The person at your door right right, It's
it's just like if you have a problem with, um,
what's the most hated company in the world right now
or in the U S. It's Comcast, right every year,

(27:49):
survey show every every year Comcast has been the number
one most hated company. It's so funny, is it. I
think it's because the customer service or just like perceptions
of greed. No, it's customer service. I've never had a
problem with Comcasts. I would agree with you, I think
ninety five percent of the time. But it is one

(28:11):
of the only companies where I've had a terrible experience
one time. There's even a thing. I'm not to be
like a Comcast apologist, but like my my internet went
down the other day. There's even a thing where you
can look for outages in your area and actually use
your phone to restart your modem and it fixed it instantly.
So I'm as far as I'm concerned, Comcast is a okay. Yeah,
well they did change their name to Exfinity because the

(28:31):
heat got to remember that after they after they I
can't remember which year it was that set them over
the threshold, but they won worst Company in the US
like after some amount of years. So maybe it's just
that when people have problems with them, they're very bad.
But yeah, So the reason I bring up Comcast is,
you know, even if you have a problem with your

(28:53):
telecom company, you have to be a human being or
an impersonate one for a minute and realize that the
person you're talking to on the phone has nothing to
do with your problem. You know, they're being paid there
to keep the people who are causing your problem from
having to deal with you directly. That's what they are.

(29:15):
Their infantry being thrown into the front lines. So I
feel like there's some kind of thing matching up there
with the census and allocating how many fighters there are. Gosh,
you know, well that's a look. I'm not saying anything
about my personal opinion, Comcast. I'm just saying the results

(29:37):
of what of what has happened. Right, So it's true,
you have to be human. The people asking these questions
are not out to get you. They don't want to
ruin your life. By April one, April Fool's Day, us
the census days observed nationwide. How crazy is that? Yeah,
on April Fool's Day is when the census is observed. Well, this,

(30:00):
this is the This is like the milestone date where
every home should have received an invitation to participate in
the census, and like every census before it, to the
points we made earlier, the census is not going to
be perfect. You know, man, when you call it an invitation,
it does sound a little more fun. It's like getting
invited to a party or something. The senses invitation makes

(30:22):
you feel special. Uh yeah, no, it's true. And this
one in particular has got some uh some kind of
sticky sticky wickets wrapped up in it. Then then it's true.
We know already going in that like every other census,
not everyone is going to be counted for one reason
or another. In the US, there's a very large population

(30:43):
in people who live pretty much off the grid. You know,
folks who go from uh and just pulling examples here,
I'm not stereotyping win but like folks who go from
one rainbow gathering to another, or one burning man kind
of event to another, and and live be in a
vehicle or live in a campsite there, probably they have

(31:05):
a very high chance being missed by the census. Someone
who's living in a hotel for an extended period of time,
we're moving around in hotels. I don't know if you've
ever been to a fish concert, but there's a lot
of people that go to those, so many of those
have not been counted. A ton of people could just
be at fish concerts perpetually while the census arrives at
their place of residents wherever. Maybe here's my here's my

(31:28):
pitch for a for a new Netflix mini series. It's
it's the crack team of Census Bureau specialists who have
to find those people at fish concerts, tracking tracking them down,
following fish trying to get the census questions. Yeah, we'll
do it kind of like the wire with his gritting

(31:48):
noir thing and will but we'll invent our own slang
for it. So it's like, you know, people like you.
You have to be a NATS squad if you're either
a problematic brill veteran or you've been busted down in
the organization because of some slight and they're like, oh,
we're gonna send you off to count fish heads. That's

(32:09):
really great. Idris elba is running the office, They're cool, Yeah,
I can let him keep the British accent for some reason. Oh,
then it becomes really sinister that it's like it's somehow
great Britain infiltrating and trying to gather intel, like you're
always a step ahead, man. I love that. And then

(32:29):
we could have what was that uh monarchical couple who
moved uh Megan Mark arc Yeah and the Prince one
of those guys, Yeah, yeah, Harry or William got a
I got I think it was Harry. Yeah. Maybe they
could have a cameo. You know, we could we could

(32:51):
go a couple of different directions. It's like a door
opens at some point and uh Idris Elba it's like
what and and it's the Prince and he's like, do
you have the data? We need to know how many
free white males? And then he says, your Highness, your

(33:12):
prince Ness, Uh, we don't use those questions anymore. Oh
my gosh. It all goes back to Brexit. They're trying
to gather as many people of British descent back to
the island. It's Brexit. But but yeah, I mean jokes aside.
The census does sound like a great idea, not for nothing.
Have thousands of other civilizations and states used this in

(33:35):
the past. It makes sense, But like you said earlier, guys,
it's becoming increasingly controversial. As a matter of fact, people
on both sides of the political divide in this country
allege there is something rotten about the entire thing, especially
this year. Why we'll tell you after a word from

(33:57):
our sponsor, here's where it gets crazy. So the census
has been um the subject of not one but several
conspiracies over over its time in the United States, but

(34:18):
in particular UM has really been a doozy. It's seen
the rise of a new phenomenon competing allegations. So here
here's what it boils down to. Much of these allegations
hinge on the so called citizenship question, which is just
what it sounds like, as simple as that. It's are

(34:38):
you a citizen of the United States? Yeah, which seems
on his face like such an easy question. Yes, or
you know, but it's there's a lot wrapped up in
that question. There's a lot of nuance there, certainly is,
especially when you take into account current events over the
past well, let's say, five six years. Sure, you know,
for a lot of people who maybe we're uh just

(35:00):
born in this country, had citizenship because the wate citizenship
works in the US is not the way it works
everywhere in the world. You if you are born on
this soil in this country, then you are automatically a citizen, uh,
no other concerns. Right in some other countries, that is

(35:20):
not the case at all. So in the US, for
many people, it seems like yeah, okay, fine, yeah, I'm
a citizen. I mean, don't ask me to tell you
where my Social Security card is because who keeps track
of that thing? But but yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm here.
But for many other people, you know, we have We
have a lot of students, right, We have a lot
of people who are in the course of getting their

(35:42):
citizenship right and are definitely here as legal residents. We
also have a lot of people who were maybe brought
over into this country at a young age when they
had did not have the ability to consent, but this
is the only home they've ever known. So even if
they're not, uh technically a citizen, they are very much

(36:03):
a resident. Where are they supposed to go? You know
what I mean? And it's difficult to differentiate if you
if you looked if you took one person who was
brought to the United States when they were let's say
two years old, one year old, and then somebody who
was born in the United States, if you look at
those two people and just sit them in a room together,

(36:26):
I have a feeling it would be very, very difficult
to figure out which which person was born in the
United States unless you directly ask them. Yeah, that's the thing.
So much of what buys people historically are going to
be things like family ties. Not that I mean maybe
the sitcom, but also just the actual family ties of

(36:46):
blood and sort of relationship or religion and things like that.
What is The one of the bold things about the
United States as a geopolitical proposition is this this concept
of people being able to say we're American. We're very different,

(37:06):
but we're united by this one thing. And it's interesting
because we can see that evolved throughout history. It used
to be called instead of the United States, uh, the
these United States. It used to be more plural, and
people would be much more likely to describe themselves as,
say a Virginian or a Floridian than they would to

(37:28):
say that they were an American. Right, And so this
this concept of an idea means that people are bound
by culture. Now, so to your example of taking you know,
person named person be same down and talking with them,
you know, they probably they probably are very much aware
of the same things. They probably like a lot of

(37:49):
the same stuff, and they definitely participate in the collective
memory of big events, right, Like they're aware of the
moon landing even if they don't think it happened, or
they're aware of you know, nine eleven, or who won
the Super Bowl last year? You know what I mean. Absolutely,
So let's get to like why why the the political

(38:13):
left and right are having such a hard time and
squabbling over all this stuff. Yeah, Okay, So in the
months leading up to this year, the census year, politicians
on both left and the right, we're fighting over the
concept of adding any question pertaining the citizenship because remember,

(38:33):
you know, all that all that's legally required when the
census is that all people living in the country answer
to it, even if they aren't citizens. Your citizenship should
not affect you when it comes to the census also, right,
Like you could be a non citizen but also be
working under a visa temporary worker reviews or something like that,

(38:56):
and then you would have to answer no. It's a
very vague question that without given the proper uh context,
could be very misleading and perhaps used in a divisive manner.
I guess so, yeah, because what if you accidentally answer
and accurately dependent We know what framing is a huge
part of how questions are answered. But we also know

(39:17):
this country has a lot of silly requirements in general.
Like consider the fact that as far as the I R.
S Is concerned, it doesn't matter if you sell illegal drugs,
You're just supposed to report it on your taxes. Is
that weird? It's very weird, And they're like, look, guys.
It's just it's the banality of bureaucracy, right, the idea

(39:40):
that that one department of the federal government would say, look, man,
move all the hair when you want. We're the accountant people,
just tell us, tell us what the profit is because
we want thirty to it. Yeah. No, you're right, and
you know, hopefully the I R. S doesn't come around
and say, Mr Decan that this is an awful lot

(40:02):
of one hundred dollar Venmo charges or what is what
are you doing with this applebee It is Applebee's. I
knew it. It's all Applebee's gift cards specifically, that is
Paul's life is just literally run by Applebee's. I have
to I know we're to do in an episode. I'm
so sorry. In honor of Paul Deck and my wife

(40:24):
and son and I tried to go to an Applebee's
where we thought there was one, and we did. We
made the mistake of not checking Google Maps or anything.
We were like, Okay, we're gonna go to this particular
area that's kind of close to where we are. It
turned out it was a Chilie's and we we had
to eat at the Chili's. You guys, I gotta tell
you that, man, I was picturing and even sadder result
because I actually prefer Chili's over Applebee's. I'm gonna put

(40:47):
that out there. Paul's giving me the stink guy. But
what if it had been like an abandoned, sad, derelict
Applebee's with tumbleweeds rolling through, just littered with chicken wing
bones and skeletons of small children. I mean that would
be I mean great. Yeah, I'd probably just start rolling

(41:07):
and like when I say that, I mean camera rolling
around children. Uh, you mean turning on the camera. Yeah, sure, no,
it would be cool. You're neer have been explorer, you'd
be into that. Yeah, man, I mean candy flipping in
and Applebee's has always been a dream of mine. Um no, no,

(41:27):
but no. But seriously, we turned out it was an
Applebee's and it got turned it. Uh yeah, see shifting
demographics right and trends. There you go. So maybe Applebee's
are proliferating somewhere else. Oh man, Well we fulfilled our
Applebee's mentioned. Thanks again to Corporate for sponsoring the show

(41:52):
and Global Illumination Unlimited, of course, the only, the only
force with the power and the pull to make endless
apps affordable for the common man. Not so true. And
kids eat free like way more than you'd think so.
Uh So, yes, the census. It is weird because ostensibly

(42:14):
this seems like a We can understand how people might
think this would be a small thing to fight over,
but the link can also understand why people might think
it's a uh, there's something else at play when for
the individual it could be dire. There could be dire exactly,
And there is a ton of misinformation and disinformation floating

(42:37):
around this issue in general. Here's the gist, the lay
of the land. Uh. The forces on what we would
call the political right of the US want generally want
a citizenship question, and the forces on the political left
generally don't. Uh. This went all the way to the

(42:58):
Supreme Court. The Supreme Court agreed. I don't know if
you'd say they agreed with the left or the right.
They agreed with the Constitution, and they ruled against the
citizenship question in June of At the time, the presidential
administration balked at this ruling and sought to keep it
in Uh. They were kicking around the idea of doing

(43:19):
an executive order for this, but ultimately did not. Here's
here's the idea. The political left say that this is
a cynical, illicit move by the political right and that
it's not on the up and up. They say the
whole reason this is happening is because of the right
is conspiring to gain more congressional power. We have a

(43:41):
quote from Reuter's that breaks it down pretty well. States
with high numbers of immigrants and Latino residents, led by
New York State, sued to block the citizenship question. They
said it would cause an undercount of their populations and
disproportionately hurt their regions by costing them U s House
of representative seats and millions of dollars in federal funding.

(44:02):
Immigrant advocacy groups said the government's plan aimed to discriminate
against non white immigrants. So we'll dig into that in
a second. Let's go to the other side of the argument.
This comes from US Commerce Secretary Wilburt Ross, and then
it goes something like this. Wilbert Ross argues that reinstating

(44:22):
a citizenship question, which had existed on smaller questionnaires sent
two smaller subsets of the population in the past, would
produce better data on enforcement of the Federal Voting Rights
Act protecting the electoral power of minorities. So on that side,
they're saying, this will give a better understanding of the

(44:47):
of the population of the US, and this will allow
us to do a better job with the Federal Voting
Rights Act. And then Ross also has what I would
say is a fairly weak argument, which is every everybody
else is doing an argument and says, you know, plenty
of other countries asked this question on their census, which
is true, but it doesn't it doesn't necess The problem

(45:09):
is it doesn't necessitate. What one country does does not
mandate the actions of another country. It's like when your
mom Aliyes, asked you just because your friends put a
citizenship question on their census, are you gonna do it too? Well,
it is an interesting point there, and and it's causing
me a bit of a I'm having an issue with

(45:29):
this internally as we're talking about I can see what
you're saying, where you get what you're getting anything, well,
just where depending on where you're you're lying on what
you're arguing. It does feel like if you did have
better data on the voters and people who are being
affected by voter suppression, then you could help to fix

(45:50):
that problem, but you could also identify people to suppress votes, um, simultaneously.
It's that weird thing of by observing you're going to
change the whole thing, like by taking the census alone.
It's also it's it's technology, it's dual purpose technology. It's
it's a question of trust and good faith. You know,
you're building the same kind of center fuges you use

(46:15):
to create nuclear power, can create nuclear weapons. Let's be real, though,
I mean, the backlash and the controversial reality controversiality of
this is largely because of the state of politics right now.
It seems divisive because people are interpreting it as a direct,

(46:35):
uh I think request from our current president who has
made some slight, pretty divisive statements about how he feels
about immigration and how he feels, you know, the quality
of human that he considers to be, uh coming over
to our country. Right. Yeah, I mean, not no judgment
either way. I'm just saying he has made these comments,

(46:55):
and I think a lot of people on the left,
especially are associating this question with le figure out how
to root out illegals. Absolutely, I mean, that's that's absolutely
one of the concerns right, because we know that the
immigration policies have been a hot button topic for this
administration since day one. Now want to point out that

(47:18):
there were people who didn't agree with Secretary Ross uh.
One group that did not agree with him was the
actual Census Bureau UH. They found that a question about
citizenship would lead to less accurate rather than more accurate reporting,
because their estimates found that something like six point five
million people would not respond to the census if they

(47:41):
knew this question was on there, massively skewing data for
the same reason, because they're thinking, given the activity of
ICE and other law enforcement agencies, am I just raising
my hand to say, discriminate against me or kicked me
out of the country, or you know, like what happens
if few what happens if you're here on a student visa,

(48:03):
which is completely above the board and legal by all
the laws in the land, and you say, Okay, I
am not a citizen, I'm a student here on a visa.
I'm studying neuroscience or sports medicine or art history or
something like that, right, or computer engineering, whatever your and
then later shortly thereafter, the administration changes some law which

(48:26):
means your student visa is null and void, and you
were planning to be here to finish school, but now
you're being deported, you know what I mean. That's like,
that's completely hypothetical. There are a lot of ifs involved.
There a lot of ifs thence but you can understand
where people are coming from. The Other thing here I'm
still going down a mildly conspiratorial route, is that let's

(48:49):
say you did have something like six point five million
people not responding to the census because of the citizenship question.
If you did get it on there, you could just
take that six point five million people or households, you know,
because you would know the address where the census was
sent to, and you knew you would know that it

(49:10):
was not responded to. You could use that as identifying
potentially either you know, people who are extaining in protests
or people who are actually perhaps have an issue. That's right,
And I mean, you know, if you think about, like
we talked about the sort of antiquated nature of the
let's not even call it technology. It's basically just human

(49:32):
beings and paper and the mail. It'spparently. I mean, you know,
there's obviously a web portal that you could use to register.
But it's such blunt instrument technology it doesn't seem like
it's very precision targeted that you know, you could be
hard to glean that much specifics about what you're talking about,
but I guess you could. You could turn the screw
a little bit and and uh you know, and and

(49:53):
and consider targeting people who did not uh participate and
and say oh instantly that means they're here illegally. And
then we can send ICE to their door saying Homeland
Security and ICE need to always have a bigger budget
the next year. Right, Well, every that's the thing. Every
government organization needs a bigger budget every year. I think

(50:15):
we've talked about this in the past, right, just to
reiterate the weird thing about at least the US government
and the way budgets work. So regardless of budget cuts,
what you're whatever group you're naming, uh, most US departments
from what we understand, have to spend the entirety of
their budget by the end of the fiscal year because

(50:36):
if they don't, then their budget gets cut, uh cut
to like take the gap away for the next year.
Can't roll it over like roll over minutes on a
c N T no, no, you can't roll. It's the
whole point. If you didn't need that much money, you're
not gonna get it next year. It's tough world. If
you needed more money and you had to spend every
single time you had and we really could have used

(50:56):
another two twenty million, two billion. Okay, I'm gonna I'm
gonna tell you guys a secret. I don't know if
I ever mentioned this on there. This is this is
an open secret. This is not anything that's going to
get anybody black bagger killed. This is just kind of
Joseph Heller Kurt Vonnegut level hilarious. Public schools are are
ultimately getting destroyed on purpose by private industry officerry. But no, no,

(51:21):
there is a day, a single day in the year
uh where people in the military industry clamor to spend
the last of the budget there in charge of And
the day ends on mid at like midnight Pacific coast time.

(51:47):
And so this day is this day is famous in
the industry. It make a mistake, It very much is
an industry day is famous in the industry such that people,
very important, high level people will just put aside a
few hours when it gets around like ten PM because

(52:08):
they know they're gonna get calls and there, and it's
gonna be from their peers, and they see how they
can move the money around because no one wants to
get caught out. It's like a weird game of musical chairs,
you know what I mean, very expensive game of musical chairs,
or a cake walk with a billion dollar cake. Very
expensive chairs for sure. Yeah, so let's go back to this.

(52:31):
So we already know that the financial situation is a
little bit absurd. But back to the Supreme Court, we
know that these this idea, the Census Bureau essentially says
this could mean six point five million people go missing
from the census. The courts also disagree with Ross's reasoning.

(52:52):
Interestingly enough, for anybody who finds themselves being overly partisan.
This was a ruling by Chief Justice John Robert, who
himself is a conservative judge. He's he's not going to
be overly biased, at least not ostensibly so, just because
an idea is coming from the conservative side, he ruled
against this citizenship question for liberal judges joined him. Justice

(53:16):
has joined him. And then he also noted, this is
interesting in there in there, uh, in their decision, they
know you know what's weird, Wilbur is that you have
seemed determined to specifically add the citizenship question, like that
has been your main thing since your first day at
the Commerce Department. Implication being don't you have other stuff

(53:38):
to do? Why is it just this one issue? Right?
So it's common for maybe a local politician to run
on one issue, let's fix the pothole on Fourth Street,
But it's not common for a secretary of an entire
or it shouldn't be common for a secretary of an
entire department to do this too biopically focus on this
one thing. And that's when that's when a guy, Uh,

(54:01):
that's when a guy named Thomas Hofeller or Huffler comes
into play. He died. He was a Republican strategist and
redistricting expert, a jerry manderer extraordinaire, and he was one
of the biggest cheerleaders of adding the citizenship question to
the census. Uh. He was instrumental in it, even way

(54:23):
back in ten where he did a study and concluded
that this would adding this question would be quote and
we're quoting him, We're not We're not spending this. This
is what this man said. He said we need assistantship
question because it would be quote advantageous to Republicans and
non Hispanic whites in redrawing electoral districts based on census data.

(54:48):
So it appears that at least in one case, what
the political left was saying when they said it was
a grab for power and also representatives, it appears backed
up by at least one guy, the guy who was
in charge of so many plans for district for district design.
The current administration dismissed this as a conspiracy theory, and

(55:13):
the court, we should note, while shooting down the citizenship question,
they did not address the idea of the ultimate argument
is minimizing the influence of non white residents or voters
or maximizing of the the white residents. Right, That's that's
that's the argument. And it got cloudy because there was

(55:33):
a ton of misinformation. There were radio pundits who were
alleging that the preceding presidential administration, the Obama administration, had
removed the question from the census in two thousand and ten.
That's at best misleading, right, But we but but why
why was it such a big news item for this census?

(55:56):
But not then if it was removed as well, Like,
how do we even find out about a question before
it comes out if someone doesn't kind of want you
to know about it, right, Because there's a lot of
people want it to be on there, and there's a
lot of people who don't want it to be on there. Uh,
and they're they're both alleging that the other party is
conspiring to do stuff. So it's strange because again, to

(56:20):
be clear, there have been citizenship questions before. I think
from eight through nineteen fifty according to the Census Bureau,
there were questions or forms that ask citizenship information. And
then there are other forms that are not the quote

(56:40):
unquote big sensus, but they're smaller versions of it, and
they've asked questions too. But this thing hasn't really been
around for for a long time at this point. Uh,
the Trump administration has decided not to defe not to
fight the decision any further. The sense this question has

(57:01):
been confirmed, it's officially removed, but social media would have
you believed differently. You will see a ton of things
coming from what seems to be both sides saying that
the citizenship question is still on the census. That is
just not true. It's not true, is it? Is it

(57:22):
the age of weaponized information? I would argue yes, it's
also you know, a clear lack of critical thinking. But
we have people like timils and the Associate director for
Field Operations at the Census Bureau, on record multiple times saying, yeah,
it's it's not happening. Stop stop freaking out, guys. He

(57:43):
didn't say, stop freaking out, it's not happening. Yeah, exactly. UM.
If you if you are skeptical of what we're saying here,
you know that because you've read it on social media,
you think, oh, the scent the question is either definitely
going to be there or whatever social post you happen
to see, you can always go to Census c E
N s U S dot gov. Through there you can

(58:05):
find essentially what what is a sample census survey for
this is going to come to your door if it
hasn't already, if you're in Alaska, um, or whenever you're
hearing this perhaps has come to your door already, but
you could you can go online and find what it's
going to look like. Yeah. Yeah, And you know one
thing is for sure, citizenship question aside this decade census

(58:30):
is going to have a huge number of problems. We
barely talked about the apocalyptic conspiracy right, uh here, just
a few other things. Politicians are very worried that the
Bureau is under prepared and very worried that the technology
being implemented won't work. And after you see the way
that different electronic voting systems and strategies have have gone

(58:55):
to put over the years, when you see all the
problems that happen with things like having an app for
a primary and so on. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty easy
to understand why there would be a lot of people
saying this is this is a recipe for disaster. Are
we gonna do one on the caucus tobac us? That
would be a lot of fun. Yeah, I wonder how

(59:16):
it's gonna shake out. You know, it's crazy, honestly, what's happening?
I haven't heard anything. Well, they are deciding South Carolina
based on oiled up arm wrestling. Yeah, WHOA, I really
need to check my news app more often it was
it was Joe snake bite, Biden's idea. He goes by

(59:36):
snake bite, Which Doe do you use the one that
the Clinton Foundation designed? Because that's that's the one, you
should be using the Clinton Foundation News as Appeah? Is
it really? No? I don't know. Did I make this up? Wasn't?
Wasn't there there was a connection with the Clinton's and
the app that. Yeah, I I used the Clinton Foundation

(59:57):
email server. Uh yeah, that's a all I miss. You
know what I missed with a self destruct button built up?
I miss? Uh my primary news source for U S
news what used to always be called a suite when
they were still open. They were just so much more
well informed than I was. You know, you would just
call a random, sweetish person. They would break stuff down.

(01:00:17):
They're also good at saying it very gently, you know,
in a way that doesn't like get your stress levels
up right. Yeah, I mean it's like, yeah, wow, I
just heard about all these natural disasters that are happening
in our country. Dear sweetish stranger, could you tell me more?
And they, you know, they gently said, they're like you
also see you know, hey, hey, what we're talking about this?

(01:00:40):
Can we briefly just mentioned something that some people have
written to us, and we've seen some reviews on the
old Apple podcasts app about what was it, uh political
ads showing up in this show? Oh yeah, we did
not have a say in that. When we found out
about those, we went and got them pulled post haste. Uh,

(01:01:00):
this this show is not this show is not a
show for political advertisements. We we think stupidity tends to
be distributed unfortunately. But as as we also know, tis
the season and a certain a certain former New York
mayor has really been pumping some some pony bones into

(01:01:22):
the old ad machine. And you may have heard one
or two from him by accident, but we we've taken
care of that. And we you know, to to our
our boss's credits are our company's credits. We are almost
always able to vet those. These just kind of snuck through. Um,
it was no one's fault. In particular, it's Bloombird's fault.
I'll say that. Yeah, that wasn't gonna name names, but

(01:01:43):
that's all on the table. So I I don't under Okay,
I don't understand no coming in hot because we just
learned about this, and Paul, please just give us the second.
I do not you all my time. I don't. I
don't understand. How would you spend that much money on
these ads when you have no ends being president? Like
statistically there's not a model where it works out unless

(01:02:05):
multiple other candidates, including the person who's currently in office,
all somehow die. That's the only way for a cabinet position.
Maybe b Yeah, we talked to off Air. I said,
you know, the only calculus that makes sense is if
he's able to do a backroom sale of any votes
he gets to broker that as a trade off for

(01:02:27):
a cabinet position of some sort of votes. I don't understand.
So like if you so, if he grew, for instance,
of voting population people who were pro Bloomberg voters, and
then he you know, he definitely didn't have a shot
at getting a dem nomination or didn't run as an
independent or anything something, and then he said, I'm going

(01:02:50):
to you know, I'm gonna throw all my votes to
you know, insert here, the Richard Simmons Harvey Keitel fran
Dresser who has a new show. By the way, Rand Dresser.
I've carried it torch for the longest time for the Nanny.
You know, rewatched it did not age well, did not
age well. I can only imagine, but but you know,

(01:03:12):
then he would say, then Bloomberg would say, hey, I've
got you know, celebrity endorsements like friend Dresser, I've got
you know, like three or five percent of the vote
or ten percent of the vote or whatever. I'll throw
them to you if you make me secretary of bloom
Burgery or whatever. But again, throw them, you mean, just
endorse this candidates, right, but then also take his massive

(01:03:34):
war chest from his campaign and maybe start donating it.
You know, the email, the email listen you've generated in
the phone numbers, all it's just all it's all monetize herble.
You just send it all out there, you know. I
just really quickly, um selfishly, and for no reason other
than for my own delight, I very much want Bernie

(01:03:57):
Sanders to become the next president United States because I
want to watch SNL. I knew you were going to
for the for the foreseeable future in the next four
years or however long it is, um with Larry David
just on the screen all the time. So because it's
like a whole New Curb season, which is out right, Yeah,
you think he'd carry that torch the way that that

(01:04:20):
Alec Baldwin has. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's probably a
contractual thing to also, you know, they are actually related.
They are cousins. That's right. I didn't know I found that.
I didn't believe it either, but it's cousins. Just didn't
like yeah, yeah, oh you're blowing my mind right now. Well,
I mean that great impression didn't come out of nowhere. Man.

(01:04:43):
But this so this we're putting a light spin at
the end because this is a serious issue. You know,
we we tend to be pretty mindful when we report
on things that are ongoing. This is beyond ongoing. This
hasn't happened yet. Really, this is happening next month. Uh,
the we can confirm officially that the Census Bureau says

(01:05:04):
there will not be a citizenship question on the census. Uh.
Your social media of choice and this is just my opinion,
needs to do a much better job of fact checking
and uh and stopping some of this kind of copy
pasta that proliferates because it's misinforming people. And the only

(01:05:26):
way that a crazy experiment like the United States works,
and sorry, my patriotism is showing here is when the
people are informed. And in a world of information warfare,
which make no mistake, is in full swing and has
been then one of the most powerful resources of any

(01:05:46):
republic is being crippled. And one of the most powerful
resources of any republic historically has been an informed public.
And how long will we have that? I just I
didn't want to add anything to that. That was awesome.
I don't know. I mean, I mean, it's not a
rhetorical question. How long somebody in Vegas is taking bets

(01:06:07):
on this right now? I guarantee it were do right,
I mean, just historically we're do No. Yeah, we're in
that two year mark. Yeah. Oh man, oh gosh, we're
past it, right, yep, yep, We're overdue. Oh well, so
before it all burns down, we would like to hear
from you. We want to know your take. We spent

(01:06:29):
a lot of time on the citizenship question, but we
also want to hear your favorite census conspiracies and maybe
not even necessarily in this country, but or in this time,
but in other times than in other parts of the world.
Let us know. You can find us on Facebook and
find us on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter.
We love to recommend our Facebook group page. Here's where

(01:06:51):
it gets crazy. You can also find us as individual
human people of the Internet. I am at how now
Noel Brown exclusively on Instagram. Yeah, I Matt Frederick Underscore
I Heart and you can find me on Instagram where
I'm at ben Bowling. You can see some of my
latest misadventures in other countries. I got successfully in and

(01:07:13):
out of Japan again. That was that was somewhat unexpected
but cool. You remember when we said we couldn't tell
you about We're been Oh yeah, yeah, well it's on Instagram.
If you want to find an appen bully as it
does it on your grid. I thought it was only
on your story it is. Yeah. Yeah, it was fitted
up my first on stage appearance in Japan, which was
not on a jumbo tron. I was on stage. Wait no,

(01:07:35):
but I saw a video though, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was on the video and then I was on
the You were actually on stage? Was this whole thing?
This was that pearl Land the San Rio Paradise Amusement Park. Yeah,
it's a long story. It's if if you've ever been
to Rock City and thought, you know this, whoever made
this needed to do more acid than Samualo. Pearl Land
is for you. Wait, I'm were you chosen like out

(01:07:58):
of the audience or you have a history of that. Yeah. Wow,
well it's it's a story for another day. You're also
a quintessentially American looking dude. I'm just gonna point that out. Yeah,
there's that, you know. I think that had a fact
that part to play. Uh. You can also if you
don't like the social means for one reason or another,

(01:08:19):
you can also call us worth. Let's be honest and
call Matt directly directly to which. By the way, by
the way, man, how many times do you nol and
I have to volunteer to be on the voicemail ring.
I sent it to you guys, and yeah, I'll send

(01:08:40):
it again. Already done your pet. Okay, I'll dig back
and find it. Because you shouldn't be you should not
be shouldering that cross alone. It's all good. I we
okay putting this out there, Nolan, I, while you were
in Japan did a listener voicemail episode. I only went
through about fifty sixty voicemails to get the batch that

(01:09:03):
we ended up using. That that's still kind of a lot. Well,
and we didn't use all of them. Um, we certainly
didn't use all fifty. We we boiled down to like
ten maybe. Um in that time that day until right
now we've received another forty voicemails, So I'm like, uh,
then I wanted to say too, And we typically do

(01:09:25):
these when someone's out of town or something, but we
had a really good time doing it and if and
found that it was a pretty great organic way to
just like talk about a bunch of different stuff. And
I personally had a had a blast doing and I
think I would put forth maybe we should do them
a little more often, make them more more regular, to
cut into that backlock, because there's a lot of goods. Actually,
I mean, I'm on the research side because I think

(01:09:47):
that I think that it's good to have some more
substantive stuff. But I see what you're saying about the
listener mail and I'm totally down. Yeah, yeah, I would
love to do more, just because everyone who was calling
in just has wonderful, really interesting things to say. So
uh yeah, let's do that. Our number is one, eight
three three st d W y t K. Give us

(01:10:09):
a call three minutes. You got You can leave more
than one if you wish, or you know, just leave
one nice and short one. Those are the best because
they work really well in an episode for us. All
right here here we go. If you don't want to
do that stuff, you can always send us a good
old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com.

(01:10:45):
Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production
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