July 25, 2023 • 42 mins
For most fans, the music industry can be a relatively obscure enterprise — we might know our favorite singers, MCs or bands, but often we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes as managers, labels and government agencies attempt influence, spread or suppress the music you hear. In this episode Ben, Matt and Noel meet with J. Prince, the founder of Rap-A-Lot records, to learn more about what the music industry does — and does not — want its listeners to know.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the show everyone, as you know, Matt Nol
and me the one they call Ben or all big,
big fans of hip hop, And in celebration of the
fiftieth anniversary of hip hop, we decided to air one
of the most fascinating conversations that I think we've had
in the course of this show with a man of
(00:22):
luminary in the world of hip hop named Jay Prince,
whom some people may be familiar with.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You might be familiar with. Him started a record company
you might be familiar with. We'll get into that in
the episode. He's a legend, let's just say. And we
got to talk to him in twenty eighteen, I believe
it was, guys in October because of something called the
A three C Festival, And actually we got a hook
up from our good friend Ramsey.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
M hmm, yeah, And so A three C is a
big festival here in Atlanta, and even for them, it
was a huge opportunity for that festival to have the
legendary Prince appear. As you said, Matt, he is the
founder of Rap a Lot Records. He's probably he may
be from people outside the world of hip hop. He
(01:09):
may be best known for introducing Drake to Lil Wayne.
He signed Drake to Young Money Entertainment, and he is
a person who commends a tremendous amount of respect, not
just in Texas, but throughout the United States and abroad.
(01:29):
In this conversation, I was re listening, you know, we
had some we had some moments where I remember looking
at across the studio at you, thinking, oh, when you
said so, do you have a pig farmy?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, for anyone that doesn't know, there have been rumors
circulating on the internet for let's say a decade or
and a half decade or two maybe about j Prince
a certain island and a pig farm and his enemies.
But you know, come on, they're just rumors, right.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I do remember Ja Prin's being a very generous interview
subject and a very fascinating figure and obviously a character
who looms large in the world of hip hop.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, and it was immensely fascinating to because I had
grown up hearing about this guy, right, And it's immensely
fascinating to speak with someone who, as you said, was
so generous and very very forthcoming with questions about government
conspiracies against people in the music industry, specifically in the
(02:42):
world of hip hop, very much outgoing with the nuts
and bolts of how things work in the music industry,
and then also pulls back the curtain to show us
a lot of stuff that some music execs might not
want you to know, about how the money can roll around,
(03:04):
about how people can help or retaliate against one another.
And it's not just I would say, and this is
not talking, This is not bragging about us. This is
bragging about the Jade Prince's buildings. As a storyteller and communicator,
I would say that it's kind of a snapshot of
(03:25):
modern American mythology in a way, like the way he's
exploring these stories. Also want to shout out the book
that he wrote, The Art and Science of Respect.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Drake wrote the forward, and.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Hey, one of the reasons we're even putting this episode
out right now is because the world at this moment
and for this month has been celebrating what's being called
the anniversary of hip hop, fifty years of this thing
that we all love called hip hop. And you know,
at times it may feel a little core or weird
(04:00):
to say, hey, it's the anniversary of hip hop, but
it is pretty amazing just to look back and celebrate
the people who shaped music as we know it today.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, it's also like a uniquely like jazz, you know,
it's a uniquely American tradition, an American phenomenon, you know
that started as a very regionalized thing with you know,
sort of like parties in the street in New York
and you know, B boy culture and of course you know,
(04:31):
djaying and all of that stuff, and then it's just
sort of organically ballooned into this absolute phenomenon and like
you know, cultural megalith that it is today, you know,
with rappers like Drake like having you know, more appearances
in the Top forty Hit Parade than like any artist
of all time. I mean, it's just absolutely insane on
such a short timeline.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Too agreed and well said, and so without further ado,
we present to you our classic conversation with the hip
hop legend James Prince Jay Prince.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
My name.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Is Noman, they call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We are joined with our returning guest superproducer, Casey Pegram.
Most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes
this stuff they don't want you to know. Today we
are diving into something that many of you and your
fellow conspiracy realists have asked us to do for a
number of years. We're touching on the concepts of conspiracy
(05:57):
and music.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
The music industry is cutthroat, it's brutal. It's often described
as a zero sum game. But wait, Matt, Noel, Ben,
you might be saying, none of you are kings of
a music empire.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
We're not even really that cultured, right.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So, as we know on this show, the best way
to get closest to the truth is to go to
a primary source. And luckily, with a three C happening
this weekend, we were able to get one of the
primary sources for the music industry as a whole.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, somebody who has been at the top of his
game for a long long time within this industry.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And I guess the best way to introduce the person
we're interviewing today would be through just a little bit
of background. Noel, would you do the honors.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yes, So today we interview a guy who I was
not intensely familiar with by name alone.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
His name is James Prince or Prince.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
But when you start digging into his legacy and his
past as a music mogul and trendsetter and just all
around forward thinking guy, you realize that he laid some
of the groundwork for many of the hip hop record
labels that we know today, especially from the nineties and
early two thousand, things like Cash Money Records, No Limit Records,
(07:23):
these kind of singular forces of owned and operated independent
hip hop record labels that then were able to connect
up with majors or at least major distribution companies in
a way that they were still able to set the
tone in the rules, but they used the parts that
they needed from the bigger players without totally cowtowing to
their every women desire like we know can be such
(07:46):
a problem with big record labels, and we talk a
lot about that with mister Prince. But he founded a
label called Wrap a Lot Records in I think nineteen
eighty five.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And then the first album was dropped in eighty.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
Seven, that's right.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And he did this when he was at the time
working at a used car lot that he owned and operated,
and he did it to get his brother, who was
a rapper who went by the name rap a Lot,
to get him to keep him from becoming a victim
of the situation that they lived in in Houston, Texas,
in a neighborhood.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
Called the Fifth Ward.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
And he talks a lot about that, and so he
kind of assembled a group called the Ghetto Boys. The
most famous of their tracks that I'm aware of showing
my age and my squareness, but is Damn it Feels
Good to Be a Gangster, which is prominently huge song
but also prominently featured an amazing scene in the movie
Office Space.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
He also he also managed Devin the Dude. If you're
if you're a fan of that, he is a great
song called that I Got High. Actually, Devin the Dude
has a bunch of tras. I'm going to go listen
to him after this interview. But I think that's an
excellent way to show the context because one of the
most important things is he did this by himself.
Speaker 6 (08:59):
Yeah right, he did is by himself.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
He was always kind of hustling and investing and looking
for ways to make a buck, and in doing that
and in all of these various endeavors throughout his life,
not to mention the fact that he was a very
successful and continues to be boxing manager. Yeah, managed a
little guy they named of Floyd Mayweather.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, So this guy's been around and in that in
those journeys that he's been through in his life, he's
seen some stuff. Specifically some stuff they they the record industry,
the music industry, the government, the government.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
The boxing industry, all of these people.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Do not want you to know.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So let's you know, don't take our word for it.
Let's hear from him.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
Let's jump right in.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Our guest today is James Prince. He's the founder of
Rap Records, a legend in the music business and beyond.
His memoir, The Art and Science of Respect is available
now as you're listening to this. You can get the
book today on Amazon, or you can head over to
Apple Music and listen to James Prince read the entire
work in audiobook format. Thank you for coming on the show, sir.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Oh yeah, it's a privileged and honor to be here.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What do we call you, James?
Speaker 7 (10:11):
You call me James Jay Prince.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
I'm gonna go with Prince.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Is that okay? Yeah, okay in studio where we're recording,
this is called Prince.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
This is the Prince Didi Wow, Well here I am
living and living indeed for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Sir, I want to go ahead. We've been listening. We
were talking about on Apple Music. You can listen to
excerpts from each of the chapters in your book, and
I wanted to just start out by talking to us
about creating goals in your life and everybody's life, making
plans and then overcoming challenges as you're making your way.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
Yeah, no, it it's really important, you know, to create
a goal. And then you know, I have a formula
that's called what, when, where, and how that gives me
clarity on accomplishing that very goal that I'm trying to attain.
And you know that's important. You know, it's important to
have structure and discipline in your life to be able
(11:04):
to accomplish these goals. So you know, I don't know
what my life would be without it, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And you also discuss leaders, followers, and loaners, and can
you just tell everybody kind of where you found yourself
and how you've evolved.
Speaker 7 (11:21):
Yeah, I mean, I'm from fifth Ward. I'm from. Fifth
Ward is a place in Houston, Texas, and I always
found myself in a position where, you know, even walking
to school, you know, I had to make up my
mind if I was going to be a leader, a follower,
or loner because I witnessed these type of individuals in
(11:44):
the hood that I'm from, and I chose to be
a leader in spite of all the pressures, and you know,
the temptation and different things I was surrounded with that
tried to force me to follow them. You know what
I mean. It's like organizations, believe it or not, that
exist in the hood that try to pressure you to
(12:05):
follow them. And in spite of all of those obstacles,
I chose to be a leader because you know, I
understand that in order to be a great leader, you
have to be a good follower as well. But that's
following things of the light, not the dark.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
So you talk a.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Lot about how when you grow up you were constantly
felt like you were being circled by sharks that were
trying to get at you and take away what you had,
and so much about the rap game is about turf
and about owning certain blocks or you know, all of
the things that kind of trickle down from the things
you hear about anything growing up in an area like this.
You started an independent label, you know, with Wrap a
(12:41):
Lot Records that sort of set the tone for a
lot of the labels we know, like No Limit Records,
Cash Money, these indie labels that had bigger distribution deals
but put out tons of content all the time. You
sort of set the model for that. But this is
not something that the record industry as we know today,
or certainly as you knew it back then, is really
a fan of How were you able to kind of
(13:02):
like push back against the model of the standard record
deal the record industry and for your own way in
a way that people picked up and kind of carried
on and still due to this day.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
Well, you know, the models, the majors, the powers that
be didn't embrace me. I wasn't welcome to the table
in the beginning. So I had no choice but to
do it my way. And I'm glad I had opportunity
to do it my way because you know, I learned
how to do it my way in the hood, and
I learned the importance, you know, my hustle always being
(13:35):
you know, to you know, put product out there, you
know what I mean, to make money. If other words,
I never liked the major system dropping one album a
year or two albums every two or three years. It
never made sense to me, you know, I felt like
a lot of money was being left on the table.
So my objective was, you know, I had a lot
(13:57):
of artists. I wanted them all to eat. So I'm like,
we have an opportunity that may not be here long,
so let's milk it while we have it. And that
was my whole model behind putting a bunch of product out.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And with that insight into the music industry. We have
a lot of fans of you and your artists listening
to the show today, and there are a ton of
things that they are probably not aware of when they
listen to a song, when they purchase an album. It's
often said that there are forces in the music industry
(14:33):
operating behind the scenes, and most fans and most listeners
are not aware of those And this gets into territory
that some people might call conspiratorial. You know, it's no
secret that prominent people of color who are at the
top level in various industries, including entertainment, but almost any
(14:55):
industry have been persecuted by the same government that says
it is here to protect people over your over your
time and in your experience building this empire. Have you
seen this actually happened to people, to entertainers, to musicians.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
To you Yeah.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
You know, I was about to say that I was
a victim of that myself, you know, and I witnessed, uh,
in my hood. I witnessed a lot of my friends
associates be victims, but I thought they were victims because
of you know, being in the ghetto or being in
the hood. You know, I found myself being a victim
(15:35):
of the very same thing. And then I realized that
this was bigger than just being in the hood.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (15:42):
You know, I was attacked by every alphabet letter you
can think of, you know, for a long time, you
know what I mean. And mainly, you know, I feel
it was because of my success, our content, of the
songs that we wrote and put out, you know, back
(16:03):
when I started rap a lot. You know, this was
at a time where you know, rap wasn't as popular,
so our swagger, our movement you know, with crowds and
everything was a threat and people was discriminating against it.
You know, we got kicked out of office buildings over
and over again because of how the artists dressed. You know,
(16:25):
they felt like they didn't have suits on, and you know,
it was different and it was new. You know, it's
not everybody looking out of the eyes of what's taking
place today. But imagine, you know, in the beginning, all
of these new styles taking place, these new movements, you know,
you know, black guys and nice vehicles. It caused a
(16:48):
lot of problems, and I became like enemy number one,
you know, and to the extent where you know, I
feel like they were trying to kill me because the
DA had a gay that I call consider hit man
because he had killed eight people. You know, they put
him on me and his sidekick, Chad Scott, the other
(17:08):
DA agent you know, the was roll Cops that you know, actually,
Chad Scott just got indicted a few months ago, you know,
ten indictment charges of the very things that I put
the spotlight on, you know, over a decade ago. They're
just catching up with him with a lot of these
different things. So it was real.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And that's Chad Scott in Detective Shoemaker, right, John Schumacher,
Jack Schumacher, you know from what we understand Chad Scott
had a record of various like punishments from the DA
for his behavior beforehand.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Is that correct?
Speaker 7 (17:47):
Yeah, that's true. When I went and had a meeting
in Washington, d C. With a lot of these guys,
you know, I told him, this guy that stole rap
a lot pieces threatened my life, you know what I mean.
He had done all of these things, and before I
can make it home good, they found a rap at
pieces in his locker, in his discs or he read
(18:08):
like chains. Yeah, so they reprimanded him, and I think
put Shoemarck on a disk job. But was that enough.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I read in this article from The Advocate out of
New Orleans that Chad Scott was the guy who is
the basis for Denzel Washington's character and training day where he,
you know, would like basically kind of run his own
mini gang operation from the position of power of being
a police officer or a law enforcement official, I guess
(18:45):
a DA agent, and that gives you a lot of access,
right And I think one of your artists did a
disk track about him, and he was a fond of
playing it at full blast when he were to make
big drug arrests. Or whatever.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 7 (18:58):
Yeah, No, this guy, you know, he was a clown
when he was in Houston, and he became what I
consider a bigger clown in Louisiana. You know, he was,
but he learned all of that from somewhere, and he,
you know, the head guy in charge at the time
with Jack Schumacher, an officer that used his weapon over
(19:19):
eight times, eight times the better, which is totally abnormal
for any officer. I guarantee you if you do research,
it's hard to find an officer that used his weapon
so many times. So my investigators had an opportunity a
lot of people don't notice, to interview his lieutenant who
(19:39):
he was under, that had retired, and the lieutenant you
know quoted, I never trust this guy. You know, his
stories would change all the time around these killings, you know.
And when they pulled me over in the dark that night,
you know, I felt like it was a hit because
they that's the first time ever been pulled over, one time,
(20:01):
to be pulled over, to be told to pull over again,
and the direction they gave me to go was dark.
You know why you want to pull me over in
the dark? Where two vehicles was already there, which was
Chad Scott, and I don't know who was in the
green jeep, but I chose to pull over to the
(20:21):
service station where it was light. And it was a
bogus you know, they say I was swerving, as if
I was drunk or something. You know, they do that
a lot in the hood to justify why they pull
us over. I wasn't swerving.
Speaker 6 (20:35):
You know.
Speaker 7 (20:35):
They wanted me to pull in that dark to do
something because they know I'm a licensed gun holder and
that's the first thing off, so ask me, where are
your guns? So and a lot of the killings that
Jack Schumacher done, it was always a weapon there and questionable.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well we're seeing so much of that now, I mean
in a big way where it's always an excuse to
take lethal action when someone maybe has a gun or
is trying to reach for a gun that they're just
trying to show you they.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Have, or as a cell phone or as a cell phone.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I mean, it's just always kind of the first go
to thing for an excuse to do that.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
And eight sure does seem like an awful lot to me.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
There's another question there too, is that frequency of dirty
shootings accelerating or people just hearing more about the ones
that had been occurring. You know, are there more skeletons
in the close There's.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So much more accountability, right with the Internet being what
it is and all of that. So absolutely, I think
that's good. And obviously we are not anti police law enforcement,
we show at all, none of us are. But it's
just you can't deny that there's certain patterns that are
that are interesting and very troubling.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I would say we're anti corruption for sure. Unfortunately, corruption
is historically a problem. We found a quote from an
earlier interview that you did where you talked about a
conspiracy taking place to kill off and destroy all future
black entrepreneurs. And in this interview you say, this is
(22:10):
they wanted to prevent people from doing the same thing
that you and rap a Lot and Cash Money and
various other peers in the space had also done. And
then you say, and I was right, have you have
you seen examples of this and do you feel like
it's accelerating, do you feel like it's lessening, do you
feel like it's a it's a constant thing.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, I witnessed this and I made that statement
years ago before everything has taken place the way it
have right now. You know, I saw it coming because
I saw, you know, artists in the same position that
we were in, and the offers from the majors. You know,
(22:52):
they took those type of offers off the table. You know,
we're no longer. And I spoke with key Indi Visuals
that was in the companies with the majors, and they
straight up say, that's ober. We're not giving those type
of deals up anymore. So they regress to the three
sixty deals, you know what I mean. And when I
(23:12):
was coming through.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Free sixty deals, meaning they like own everything about you.
Then you like, you pay them back or they give
you an advance, and then you're kind of working like
indentured servitude almost.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
Yeah, that three sixty they're gonna eat everywhere you eating,
which they criticized when I came through. They criticized me
for managing or being able to get a percentage of
management from an artist that I put out. You know,
they created this after I took an artist that nobody
wanted anything to do with. We created a buzz and
(23:43):
had success. The majors with some of the key individuals.
You can't manage and promote an artists at the same
time and turn around and done a three sixty deal
the same deal. I was, you know, not to the
extent of the way they're even doing it, but the
(24:03):
management side of it, I couldn't you know they oh
that was like seeing so you know, I witnessed them,
you know, change their mind. Don't want to see another
j Prince, master P, cash Money, Tony Trapa with that
distribution deal, with marketing, including the whole infrastructure of the
(24:25):
deals have changed, and I saw it before it got here.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And I guess it's true. The closest thing I can
see to that is like a Jay Z for example.
I mean, like that's the highest profile dude that's running
every aspect of his business and promoting other artists and
you know, has his label and is also an artist himself.
But I don't see a lot of examples of like
the old way, like you know, Puff Daddy and guys
like yourself and master P. You just didn't seem like
(24:51):
there's much opportunity for that to happen anymore. But is
that maybe kind of not the worst thing in the world,
because you have all these artists being empowered by the Internet,
and being able to put themselves out and it's sort
of this like democracy of like people's attention. If you're
really good, you can succeed on your own without a label.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
Well, you definitely can succeed on your own, but you know,
by no means is that something that they wouldn't want?
You know, everybody would want access to that kind of power.
And you know, speaking of jay Z Tom, they kind
of under the old law, as I would say in
my era, so that dea was earned like way back then,
(25:29):
but they trying to prevent that from this day fall.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And when we say they, I think something that would
surprise a lot of fans of any type of music
is that at the top, from what I understand with
the majors, there's a relatively small group of people that
are making these calls to green light something or to
end end someone's success. Just is that an active thing
(25:58):
that they do. Is there really some sort of like
maybe a room almost like this one where where I
mean a much nicer room.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yes, there are more cigars in the right where.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
People get together and they say we're gonna shut We're
gonna shut these people down.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
I think I told this story in my book, I
wrote about a story where, you know, I called myself
going to create a situation where the majors was gonna.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
A bid war.
Speaker 7 (26:30):
And I went to I think Capital Records, and I'm
interviewing with a guy, you know, to tell him what
I wanted. And I left Capital and went over to
Janet to speak with Irvin Azoff. And I'm trying to
use this offer that I got against Irvin Azoff to
(26:52):
only you know, witness that Irvin Azoff knew everything that
was offered to me over the Capital.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
So you're like floating this set to kind of do
a little test to see what they know.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
Yeah, which kind of blew my mind. So at that
point I understood it. Right then, Okay, these guys are
working together. You know, there's a network, a system in
place where they're sharing information. And I witnessed this on
so many different levels. But you know, it's interesting and
it's a surprise to those that don't know, and you know,
(27:28):
they can shut you down. I'll give you another example
about David Geffen. You know, because you know the Ghetto Boys,
we wanted to release a record with the same lyrical
content as he was releasing, you know, with other artists
with Rick Rubin, and he chose not to release our
(27:49):
record and basically gave Rick Rubin the freedom to, you know,
go and do another deal elsewhere. And if you know,
the lyrical content was the same as the other rock
and roll on Well.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Geffen was actually asked about that in an NPR piece
and he specifically cited some lyrics about violence towards women
that he had a problem with that were kind of
a little on the gory side, and he.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
Said that was his position on it.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
But I understand, like with death metal and heavy metal
and stuff, there's there's lyrics that are interpreted all kinds
of ways too. But what do you say to that
that it was specifically about violence towards women.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Yeah, I think he full of it, and uh, you know,
but it was his company to do what he wanted
to do. But you know, it's it's almost as as
if you're against a movie where violence take place against women.
You know, it's all at the end of the day,
it's all a joke, you know what I mean. It's
not what I mean by joke. Nobody in that particular song.
(28:49):
If you listen to the song that he's referring to,
it was like a vampire movie type of song or something.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
You know, can I can I jump to some real
fast You were a boxing promoter for a time, were right,
not boxing manager, manager manager, so the others you're still
a boxing manager. So are you excited about any of
this stuff coming up on Saturday, like some of the
(29:19):
big the big UFC fight stuff into the UFC.
Speaker 7 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's gonna be a good fight. Uh.
I don't know who's gonna win. But I like UFC
as well as box They're both great.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And uh, you know, Connor McGregor just had his He
tried his hand at boxing, right and goes so great.
Speaker 7 (29:39):
So there's well it depends that it was best.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
It was the best of his life, right. But you know,
in the same vein in that world, there's a lot
of stuff they don't want you to know, similar to
the music industry. Is there anything you can share with
us about that that whole world?
Speaker 7 (29:58):
Well, just understand that boxing and the music game it's
too cutthroat businesses. And with that being said, you know,
when you're dealing with cutthroat situations, you know, I give
you an example and I wrote about it in the
book Me and Don King. Don King had this fighter
(30:18):
by the name of James Page, who you know wasn't
being treated fairly at all. You know, he had a
deal with with Showtime where two million a fight was
coming his way because of you know, James Page. And
you know James Page was only getting a hundred and
(30:39):
some thousand of that money. So you know, I went
to Don King. I'm like, hey, man, you know this
ain't right.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
We have to eat.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
You know, I'm representing this guy now, so you know,
show some respect and allows us to eat a little more.
And King said to me, brother, if you want him
to eat, then you need to go and figure out
a way for him. You know, this is what I
understood that, and I made some for nest moves, which
(31:10):
caused me to get sued by Don King for like
twenty million dollars, you know, because he felt like I
had took his fighter in which I did and created
a better opportunity. I got him the biggest payday that
he had ever made. To make a long story short,
you know, I worn that laws suit and you know
(31:32):
the headlines read the Prince, the Thrones, the King, which
you know caused my business to try him to a
different level.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Think that's a good headline.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And often in both of these businesses which you just
described as cutthrough, often we see various artists, various even
boxers of fighters referring or maybe I should say, deferring
to you to your opinion to take. Do you see these,
(32:06):
especially these younger people want to follow in your footsteps?
Do you see them learning from you?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Or I guess what of asking is. Do you see
them listening?
Speaker 7 (32:16):
Yeah? Yeah, most definitely. When I speak, they normally listen.
A lot of them reach out to me all the time,
which you know caused me to want to write the
book The Art and Science of Respect because of the
demand of questions that I be asked all the time.
And yeah, they definitely listening. And you know that they
(32:40):
are wiser, you know, because of the information they have
access to. You know, a lot of them are weaker,
but wiser. Yeah, you know. But yeah, I actually like
some of the things that they are doing. You know,
I think that they are more content ownership, is concerned,
(33:01):
more alert and on God than than I would generation.
So yeah, they some of them listen.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Speak speaking of that, you're here in town in Atlanta
for the A three C Conference and festival festival in conference,
excuse me, and you're gonna be speaking about your book
and about a lot of these lessons that you've learned
and what people are learning from you. And uh, this
episode comes out today's Friday. You can go right now
to a three C festival dot com and check out
(33:32):
what's going on. There's still a few days left. You
can go do some things this weekend, so check that
out for sure.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
We got a couple quick, rapid fire questions for you,
just to close this thing out.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
What's it like owning an island? How's that working out
for you? Oh?
Speaker 7 (33:45):
Man, that's a that's a beautiful feeling to be in
a place like this, surrounded by water. And I never
saw a darkness that exists the way it exists around water.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
And oh because there's no light pollution.
Speaker 7 (34:02):
Yeah, the stars are beautiful.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Do you have a secret hideout on your eye? Yes?
Speaker 7 (34:07):
I do.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
How much like what do we have to do to
come hang out with you sometime?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Oh man?
Speaker 7 (34:17):
You know, just just ring me, stop giving me a call,
and we'll make it happen.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
All right, Cool, I'm gonna take you up on that
one more.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
What you got oh, yeah, sure, there are a lot
of rumors about you man, obviously. Yeah, do you have
a pig farm of some sort?
Speaker 7 (34:34):
No, No, I don't have a pig farm, but I
do have a rants with a lot of black angles,
cattle and horses on.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, so we no pigs, well that one, yes, no pigs.
James Prince, thank you so much for taking the time
to come by our studio and fill us in on
a lot of things that the music industry may be
he doesn't want artists and fans to know.
Speaker 7 (35:02):
Right, absolutely, Hey, thank you all for having me.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Courtesy message was awesome.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
Thank you so good.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
All right, we're back here with just the three of
us in the studio. That was pretty intense.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
Huh. That was intense in a lot of levels.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
I mean, mister Prince rolled in with a sizable posse,
and that was amazing and slightly intimidating, but ultimately cool
because they were all super cool, kind, nice people, as
was mister Prince himself, very generous with his time.
Speaker 6 (35:31):
It was a bit of a crunch and we I
felt like we covered most of the bases that we
wanted to.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Absolutely, we didn't really talk about how j Prince is
kind of a scary figure in a way, at least
according to a lot of rumors and a lot of
the legends about him.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
I had a great time speaking with him.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Reminds me of some people that in my family that
were older the meat that I grew up with. And
obviously has been asked some of these questions before, but
I think it's important, especially if you're listening to this
and you want to pursue a career in the music industry.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I think it's important to know a.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Lot of this stuff because, as we had brought up
before in the earlier interview, the music industry is notorious
for doing terrible things to people who are pursuing a
career in music in one way or another. And that's
stuff with Don King one hundred thousand dollars out of
(36:30):
two million that blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Dude, I know well, and I didn't want to get
too deep into it, but the same thing is happening
with big, big organizations like the UFC and their fighters,
where they're making just millions and millions of dollars and
the fighters get paid like fifty to two hundred k,
sometimes less unless you're Connor McGregor.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
That's you're Connor McGregor.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
And you know it might not surprise some people that
there are remors flitting around about this guy, you know,
having to maybe crack some heads in his day or
have them cracked on his behalf because you don't get
to the top as a one man show by being
a sweetheart to everyone.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, the most dangerous person. Let's
go to a weird analogy here talking about bread and
making bread, some of the old sayings here, I am interested.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Okay, well, no, the idea paint the picture for us.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The idea is that you can eat bread. That's great, right,
if you know how to make bread, you can feed yourself.
And if you can make bread like in your house,
that's great. You can feed a couple of your friends
and your family. But if you build a bread factory,
give me like a bakery, a bread factory where you
(37:42):
can literally start feeding everyone sure in your area, that
makes you a very dangerous person because the people that
usually sell the bread, they can't sell it anymore because
you're making it, probably at a little cheaper price, and
you're giving it. Maybe you're giving some way just that
whole idea of being controlled by an outside.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Force versus owning the means of production.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, not to get too cart that, Yeah, that's what
I'm saying. Was that stupid though?
Speaker 6 (38:10):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
And that's a big part about his struggle with the
record industry too, is because this is a guy that
kind of came in built his own model where he
owns the means of production, he does it himself, or
he leagues up with just the bits of the bigger
distros and labels that he needs and then says, I
don't need the rest of this, you know. Yeah, And
that is a model that's kind of coming back around
now in terms of independent labels doing well in terms
(38:34):
of individual artists more owning the means of production, in
terms of being able to afford to press their own
stuff more cheaply, or release it digitally or make money touring.
And I guess the issue is there's maybe not millions
and billions to be made as much anymore as there
were in the old days, except for a very small
elite group of people that are still largely controlled by
(38:55):
the big record labels. But it's still interesting to see
that evolution and see how he looks at the way
things are now.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
It just sounds like he doesn't have a.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Completely bad outlook on it, but it also doesn't sound
like he's a huge fan of the current digital you know,
artist driven right.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, there there were a ton of questions that we
didn't get to, and we wanted to make sure we
got to the things that were more in the in
the realm of cover ups, the things that would be
helpful to you and your fellow listeners. But we left
the interview with several questions still there. Oh, I wanted
(39:35):
to take time to say, Oh, what do you think
of this scientific artist? What do you think of this person?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I wanted to ask him honestly about Kanye in his
recent SNL appearance, there's this whole Yeah, he gave this
whole speech at the end after the show stopped being performance.
Well it was it was the third performance. Ah, like
at the end where you know, everybody comes out on
stage and everything. Kanye did another song and they had
to cut it off because it was like one oh
(40:02):
two or something. It ends at one o'clock in the morning,
and then he gave just a really long speech. Anyway,
if you haven't watched that yet you can find it online.
There's some interesting stuff in there that I think we
should probably explore, having to do with accusations about Democrats
setting up the black community to fail.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Right, Yes, I do remember that part.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
You can see the speech on YouTube, but it might
be in a bootleg version. I think SNL cut it
for their West Coast.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Chris Rock actually filmed a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Seriously, so let us know what you think about cover
ups in the music industry, about the ways in which
the US government or other governments may persecute musicians or entertainers.
You know, how do governments navigate or negotiate with cultural
(40:53):
power centers? Yeah, you know, and we want to hear
your thoughts. We also want to give you a brief
reef spoiler. We are going to have some more music
industry episodes along the way. You might be surprised by
who writes your favorite pop song? Oh that's all we
got for that.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
That's a good spoiler. Should we just go ahead right
now while we have a chance and just call out
the culture kings, like officially, what do you mean and
just say we heard it, We heard what you said,
that's all.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Oh yeah, I'm having fun with that.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
We heard what you said.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
And this aggression will not stand.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
No, no, it will not Oh no.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
But we love you guys, and you know we look
forward to putting out the episode that we just did together.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, and Matt loves you.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I'm playing so yeah. Jai, Chies, Edgar that's their names.
Thanks so much for the Thanks so much for the
shout out, Thanks for the call out. Great to be
on the air, and we're talking with you soon. In
the meantime, you can find.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can
get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
One of the best is to give us a call.
Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you
don't want to do that, you can send us a
good old fashioned email.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to the show everyone, as you know, Matt Nol
and me the one they call Ben or all big,
big fans of hip hop, And in celebration of the
fiftieth anniversary of hip hop, we decided to air one
of the most fascinating conversations that I think we've had
in the course of this show with a man of
(00:22):
luminary in the world of hip hop named Jay Prince,
whom some people may be familiar with.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You might be familiar with. Him started a record company
you might be familiar with. We'll get into that in
the episode. He's a legend, let's just say. And we
got to talk to him in twenty eighteen, I believe
it was, guys in October because of something called the
A three C Festival, And actually we got a hook
up from our good friend Ramsey.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
M hmm, yeah, And so A three C is a
big festival here in Atlanta, and even for them, it
was a huge opportunity for that festival to have the
legendary Prince appear. As you said, Matt, he is the
founder of Rap a Lot Records. He's probably he may
be from people outside the world of hip hop. He
(01:09):
may be best known for introducing Drake to Lil Wayne.
He signed Drake to Young Money Entertainment, and he is
a person who commends a tremendous amount of respect, not
just in Texas, but throughout the United States and abroad.
(01:29):
In this conversation, I was re listening, you know, we
had some we had some moments where I remember looking
at across the studio at you, thinking, oh, when you
said so, do you have a pig farmy?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, for anyone that doesn't know, there have been rumors
circulating on the internet for let's say a decade or
and a half decade or two maybe about j Prince
a certain island and a pig farm and his enemies.
But you know, come on, they're just rumors, right.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I do remember Ja Prin's being a very generous interview
subject and a very fascinating figure and obviously a character
who looms large in the world of hip hop.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, and it was immensely fascinating to because I had
grown up hearing about this guy, right, And it's immensely
fascinating to speak with someone who, as you said, was
so generous and very very forthcoming with questions about government
conspiracies against people in the music industry, specifically in the
(02:42):
world of hip hop, very much outgoing with the nuts
and bolts of how things work in the music industry,
and then also pulls back the curtain to show us
a lot of stuff that some music execs might not
want you to know, about how the money can roll around,
(03:04):
about how people can help or retaliate against one another.
And it's not just I would say, and this is
not talking, This is not bragging about us. This is
bragging about the Jade Prince's buildings. As a storyteller and communicator,
I would say that it's kind of a snapshot of
(03:25):
modern American mythology in a way, like the way he's
exploring these stories. Also want to shout out the book
that he wrote, The Art and Science of Respect.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Drake wrote the forward, and.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Hey, one of the reasons we're even putting this episode
out right now is because the world at this moment
and for this month has been celebrating what's being called
the anniversary of hip hop, fifty years of this thing
that we all love called hip hop. And you know,
at times it may feel a little core or weird
(04:00):
to say, hey, it's the anniversary of hip hop, but
it is pretty amazing just to look back and celebrate
the people who shaped music as we know it today.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, it's also like a uniquely like jazz, you know,
it's a uniquely American tradition, an American phenomenon, you know
that started as a very regionalized thing with you know,
sort of like parties in the street in New York
and you know, B boy culture and of course you know,
(04:31):
djaying and all of that stuff, and then it's just
sort of organically ballooned into this absolute phenomenon and like
you know, cultural megalith that it is today, you know,
with rappers like Drake like having you know, more appearances
in the Top forty Hit Parade than like any artist
of all time. I mean, it's just absolutely insane on
such a short timeline.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Too agreed and well said, and so without further ado,
we present to you our classic conversation with the hip
hop legend James Prince Jay Prince.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
My name.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Is Noman, they call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We are joined with our returning guest superproducer, Casey Pegram.
Most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes
this stuff they don't want you to know. Today we
are diving into something that many of you and your
fellow conspiracy realists have asked us to do for a
number of years. We're touching on the concepts of conspiracy
(05:57):
and music.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
The music industry is cutthroat, it's brutal. It's often described
as a zero sum game. But wait, Matt, Noel, Ben,
you might be saying, none of you are kings of
a music empire.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
We're not even really that cultured, right.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So, as we know on this show, the best way
to get closest to the truth is to go to
a primary source. And luckily, with a three C happening
this weekend, we were able to get one of the
primary sources for the music industry as a whole.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, somebody who has been at the top of his
game for a long long time within this industry.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And I guess the best way to introduce the person
we're interviewing today would be through just a little bit
of background. Noel, would you do the honors.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yes, So today we interview a guy who I was
not intensely familiar with by name alone.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
His name is James Prince or Prince.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
But when you start digging into his legacy and his
past as a music mogul and trendsetter and just all
around forward thinking guy, you realize that he laid some
of the groundwork for many of the hip hop record
labels that we know today, especially from the nineties and
early two thousand, things like Cash Money Records, No Limit Records,
(07:23):
these kind of singular forces of owned and operated independent
hip hop record labels that then were able to connect
up with majors or at least major distribution companies in
a way that they were still able to set the
tone in the rules, but they used the parts that
they needed from the bigger players without totally cowtowing to
their every women desire like we know can be such
(07:46):
a problem with big record labels, and we talk a
lot about that with mister Prince. But he founded a
label called Wrap a Lot Records in I think nineteen
eighty five.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And then the first album was dropped in eighty.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
Seven, that's right.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And he did this when he was at the time
working at a used car lot that he owned and operated,
and he did it to get his brother, who was
a rapper who went by the name rap a Lot,
to get him to keep him from becoming a victim
of the situation that they lived in in Houston, Texas,
in a neighborhood.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
Called the Fifth Ward.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
And he talks a lot about that, and so he
kind of assembled a group called the Ghetto Boys. The
most famous of their tracks that I'm aware of showing
my age and my squareness, but is Damn it Feels
Good to Be a Gangster, which is prominently huge song
but also prominently featured an amazing scene in the movie
Office Space.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
He also he also managed Devin the Dude. If you're
if you're a fan of that, he is a great
song called that I Got High. Actually, Devin the Dude
has a bunch of tras. I'm going to go listen
to him after this interview. But I think that's an
excellent way to show the context because one of the
most important things is he did this by himself.
Speaker 6 (08:59):
Yeah right, he did is by himself.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
He was always kind of hustling and investing and looking
for ways to make a buck, and in doing that
and in all of these various endeavors throughout his life,
not to mention the fact that he was a very
successful and continues to be boxing manager. Yeah, managed a
little guy they named of Floyd Mayweather.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, So this guy's been around and in that in
those journeys that he's been through in his life, he's
seen some stuff. Specifically some stuff they they the record industry,
the music industry, the government, the government.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
The boxing industry, all of these people.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Do not want you to know.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So let's you know, don't take our word for it.
Let's hear from him.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
Let's jump right in.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Our guest today is James Prince. He's the founder of
Rap Records, a legend in the music business and beyond.
His memoir, The Art and Science of Respect is available
now as you're listening to this. You can get the
book today on Amazon, or you can head over to
Apple Music and listen to James Prince read the entire
work in audiobook format. Thank you for coming on the show, sir.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Oh yeah, it's a privileged and honor to be here.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What do we call you, James?
Speaker 7 (10:11):
You call me James Jay Prince.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
I'm gonna go with Prince.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Is that okay? Yeah, okay in studio where we're recording,
this is called Prince.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
This is the Prince Didi Wow, Well here I am
living and living indeed for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Sir, I want to go ahead. We've been listening. We
were talking about on Apple Music. You can listen to
excerpts from each of the chapters in your book, and
I wanted to just start out by talking to us
about creating goals in your life and everybody's life, making
plans and then overcoming challenges as you're making your way.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
Yeah, no, it it's really important, you know, to create
a goal. And then you know, I have a formula
that's called what, when, where, and how that gives me
clarity on accomplishing that very goal that I'm trying to attain.
And you know that's important. You know, it's important to
have structure and discipline in your life to be able
(11:04):
to accomplish these goals. So you know, I don't know
what my life would be without it, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And you also discuss leaders, followers, and loaners, and can
you just tell everybody kind of where you found yourself
and how you've evolved.
Speaker 7 (11:21):
Yeah, I mean, I'm from fifth Ward. I'm from. Fifth
Ward is a place in Houston, Texas, and I always
found myself in a position where, you know, even walking
to school, you know, I had to make up my
mind if I was going to be a leader, a follower,
or loner because I witnessed these type of individuals in
(11:44):
the hood that I'm from, and I chose to be
a leader in spite of all the pressures, and you know,
the temptation and different things I was surrounded with that
tried to force me to follow them. You know what
I mean. It's like organizations, believe it or not, that
exist in the hood that try to pressure you to
(12:05):
follow them. And in spite of all of those obstacles,
I chose to be a leader because you know, I
understand that in order to be a great leader, you
have to be a good follower as well. But that's
following things of the light, not the dark.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
So you talk a.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Lot about how when you grow up you were constantly
felt like you were being circled by sharks that were
trying to get at you and take away what you had,
and so much about the rap game is about turf
and about owning certain blocks or you know, all of
the things that kind of trickle down from the things
you hear about anything growing up in an area like this.
You started an independent label, you know, with Wrap a
(12:41):
Lot Records that sort of set the tone for a
lot of the labels we know, like No Limit Records,
Cash Money, these indie labels that had bigger distribution deals
but put out tons of content all the time. You
sort of set the model for that. But this is
not something that the record industry as we know today,
or certainly as you knew it back then, is really
a fan of How were you able to kind of
(13:02):
like push back against the model of the standard record
deal the record industry and for your own way in
a way that people picked up and kind of carried
on and still due to this day.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
Well, you know, the models, the majors, the powers that
be didn't embrace me. I wasn't welcome to the table
in the beginning. So I had no choice but to
do it my way. And I'm glad I had opportunity
to do it my way because you know, I learned
how to do it my way in the hood, and
I learned the importance, you know, my hustle always being
(13:35):
you know, to you know, put product out there, you
know what I mean, to make money. If other words,
I never liked the major system dropping one album a
year or two albums every two or three years. It
never made sense to me, you know, I felt like
a lot of money was being left on the table.
So my objective was, you know, I had a lot
(13:57):
of artists. I wanted them all to eat. So I'm like,
we have an opportunity that may not be here long,
so let's milk it while we have it. And that
was my whole model behind putting a bunch of product out.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And with that insight into the music industry. We have
a lot of fans of you and your artists listening
to the show today, and there are a ton of
things that they are probably not aware of when they
listen to a song, when they purchase an album. It's
often said that there are forces in the music industry
(14:33):
operating behind the scenes, and most fans and most listeners
are not aware of those And this gets into territory
that some people might call conspiratorial. You know, it's no
secret that prominent people of color who are at the
top level in various industries, including entertainment, but almost any
(14:55):
industry have been persecuted by the same government that says
it is here to protect people over your over your
time and in your experience building this empire. Have you
seen this actually happened to people, to entertainers, to musicians.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
To you Yeah.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
You know, I was about to say that I was
a victim of that myself, you know, and I witnessed, uh,
in my hood. I witnessed a lot of my friends
associates be victims, but I thought they were victims because
of you know, being in the ghetto or being in
the hood. You know, I found myself being a victim
(15:35):
of the very same thing. And then I realized that
this was bigger than just being in the hood.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (15:42):
You know, I was attacked by every alphabet letter you
can think of, you know, for a long time, you
know what I mean. And mainly, you know, I feel
it was because of my success, our content, of the
songs that we wrote and put out, you know, back
(16:03):
when I started rap a lot. You know, this was
at a time where you know, rap wasn't as popular,
so our swagger, our movement you know, with crowds and
everything was a threat and people was discriminating against it.
You know, we got kicked out of office buildings over
and over again because of how the artists dressed. You know,
(16:25):
they felt like they didn't have suits on, and you know,
it was different and it was new. You know, it's
not everybody looking out of the eyes of what's taking
place today. But imagine, you know, in the beginning, all
of these new styles taking place, these new movements, you know,
you know, black guys and nice vehicles. It caused a
(16:48):
lot of problems, and I became like enemy number one,
you know, and to the extent where you know, I
feel like they were trying to kill me because the
DA had a gay that I call consider hit man
because he had killed eight people. You know, they put
him on me and his sidekick, Chad Scott, the other
(17:08):
DA agent you know, the was roll Cops that you know, actually,
Chad Scott just got indicted a few months ago, you know,
ten indictment charges of the very things that I put
the spotlight on, you know, over a decade ago. They're
just catching up with him with a lot of these
different things. So it was real.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And that's Chad Scott in Detective Shoemaker, right, John Schumacher,
Jack Schumacher, you know from what we understand Chad Scott
had a record of various like punishments from the DA
for his behavior beforehand.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Is that correct?
Speaker 7 (17:47):
Yeah, that's true. When I went and had a meeting
in Washington, d C. With a lot of these guys,
you know, I told him, this guy that stole rap
a lot pieces threatened my life, you know what I mean.
He had done all of these things, and before I
can make it home good, they found a rap at
pieces in his locker, in his discs or he read
(18:08):
like chains. Yeah, so they reprimanded him, and I think
put Shoemarck on a disk job. But was that enough.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I read in this article from The Advocate out of
New Orleans that Chad Scott was the guy who is
the basis for Denzel Washington's character and training day where he,
you know, would like basically kind of run his own
mini gang operation from the position of power of being
a police officer or a law enforcement official, I guess
(18:45):
a DA agent, and that gives you a lot of access,
right And I think one of your artists did a
disk track about him, and he was a fond of
playing it at full blast when he were to make
big drug arrests. Or whatever.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 7 (18:58):
Yeah, No, this guy, you know, he was a clown
when he was in Houston, and he became what I
consider a bigger clown in Louisiana. You know, he was,
but he learned all of that from somewhere, and he,
you know, the head guy in charge at the time
with Jack Schumacher, an officer that used his weapon over
(19:19):
eight times, eight times the better, which is totally abnormal
for any officer. I guarantee you if you do research,
it's hard to find an officer that used his weapon
so many times. So my investigators had an opportunity a
lot of people don't notice, to interview his lieutenant who
(19:39):
he was under, that had retired, and the lieutenant you
know quoted, I never trust this guy. You know, his
stories would change all the time around these killings, you know.
And when they pulled me over in the dark that night,
you know, I felt like it was a hit because
they that's the first time ever been pulled over, one time,
(20:01):
to be pulled over, to be told to pull over again,
and the direction they gave me to go was dark.
You know why you want to pull me over in
the dark? Where two vehicles was already there, which was
Chad Scott, and I don't know who was in the
green jeep, but I chose to pull over to the
(20:21):
service station where it was light. And it was a
bogus you know, they say I was swerving, as if
I was drunk or something. You know, they do that
a lot in the hood to justify why they pull
us over. I wasn't swerving.
Speaker 6 (20:35):
You know.
Speaker 7 (20:35):
They wanted me to pull in that dark to do
something because they know I'm a licensed gun holder and
that's the first thing off, so ask me, where are
your guns? So and a lot of the killings that
Jack Schumacher done, it was always a weapon there and questionable.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well we're seeing so much of that now, I mean
in a big way where it's always an excuse to
take lethal action when someone maybe has a gun or
is trying to reach for a gun that they're just
trying to show you they.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Have, or as a cell phone or as a cell phone.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I mean, it's just always kind of the first go
to thing for an excuse to do that.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
And eight sure does seem like an awful lot to me.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
There's another question there too, is that frequency of dirty
shootings accelerating or people just hearing more about the ones
that had been occurring. You know, are there more skeletons
in the close There's.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So much more accountability, right with the Internet being what
it is and all of that. So absolutely, I think
that's good. And obviously we are not anti police law enforcement,
we show at all, none of us are. But it's
just you can't deny that there's certain patterns that are
that are interesting and very troubling.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I would say we're anti corruption for sure. Unfortunately, corruption
is historically a problem. We found a quote from an
earlier interview that you did where you talked about a
conspiracy taking place to kill off and destroy all future
black entrepreneurs. And in this interview you say, this is
(22:10):
they wanted to prevent people from doing the same thing
that you and rap a Lot and Cash Money and
various other peers in the space had also done. And
then you say, and I was right, have you have
you seen examples of this and do you feel like
it's accelerating, do you feel like it's lessening, do you
feel like it's a it's a constant thing.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, I witnessed this and I made that statement
years ago before everything has taken place the way it
have right now. You know, I saw it coming because
I saw, you know, artists in the same position that
we were in, and the offers from the majors. You know,
(22:52):
they took those type of offers off the table. You know,
we're no longer. And I spoke with key Indi Visuals
that was in the companies with the majors, and they
straight up say, that's ober. We're not giving those type
of deals up anymore. So they regress to the three
sixty deals, you know what I mean. And when I
(23:12):
was coming through.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Free sixty deals, meaning they like own everything about you.
Then you like, you pay them back or they give
you an advance, and then you're kind of working like
indentured servitude almost.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
Yeah, that three sixty they're gonna eat everywhere you eating,
which they criticized when I came through. They criticized me
for managing or being able to get a percentage of
management from an artist that I put out. You know,
they created this after I took an artist that nobody
wanted anything to do with. We created a buzz and
(23:43):
had success. The majors with some of the key individuals.
You can't manage and promote an artists at the same
time and turn around and done a three sixty deal
the same deal. I was, you know, not to the
extent of the way they're even doing it, but the
(24:03):
management side of it, I couldn't you know they oh
that was like seeing so you know, I witnessed them,
you know, change their mind. Don't want to see another
j Prince, master P, cash Money, Tony Trapa with that
distribution deal, with marketing, including the whole infrastructure of the
(24:25):
deals have changed, and I saw it before it got here.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And I guess it's true. The closest thing I can
see to that is like a Jay Z for example.
I mean, like that's the highest profile dude that's running
every aspect of his business and promoting other artists and
you know, has his label and is also an artist himself.
But I don't see a lot of examples of like
the old way, like you know, Puff Daddy and guys
like yourself and master P. You just didn't seem like
(24:51):
there's much opportunity for that to happen anymore. But is
that maybe kind of not the worst thing in the world,
because you have all these artists being empowered by the Internet,
and being able to put themselves out and it's sort
of this like democracy of like people's attention. If you're
really good, you can succeed on your own without a label.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
Well, you definitely can succeed on your own, but you know,
by no means is that something that they wouldn't want?
You know, everybody would want access to that kind of power.
And you know, speaking of jay Z Tom, they kind
of under the old law, as I would say in
my era, so that dea was earned like way back then,
(25:29):
but they trying to prevent that from this day fall.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And when we say they, I think something that would
surprise a lot of fans of any type of music
is that at the top, from what I understand with
the majors, there's a relatively small group of people that
are making these calls to green light something or to
end end someone's success. Just is that an active thing
(25:58):
that they do. Is there really some sort of like
maybe a room almost like this one where where I
mean a much nicer room.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yes, there are more cigars in the right where.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
People get together and they say we're gonna shut We're
gonna shut these people down.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
I think I told this story in my book, I
wrote about a story where, you know, I called myself
going to create a situation where the majors was gonna.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
A bid war.
Speaker 7 (26:30):
And I went to I think Capital Records, and I'm
interviewing with a guy, you know, to tell him what
I wanted. And I left Capital and went over to
Janet to speak with Irvin Azoff. And I'm trying to
use this offer that I got against Irvin Azoff to
(26:52):
only you know, witness that Irvin Azoff knew everything that
was offered to me over the Capital.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
So you're like floating this set to kind of do
a little test to see what they know.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
Yeah, which kind of blew my mind. So at that
point I understood it. Right then, Okay, these guys are
working together. You know, there's a network, a system in
place where they're sharing information. And I witnessed this on
so many different levels. But you know, it's interesting and
it's a surprise to those that don't know, and you know,
(27:28):
they can shut you down. I'll give you another example
about David Geffen. You know, because you know the Ghetto Boys,
we wanted to release a record with the same lyrical
content as he was releasing, you know, with other artists
with Rick Rubin, and he chose not to release our
(27:49):
record and basically gave Rick Rubin the freedom to, you know,
go and do another deal elsewhere. And if you know,
the lyrical content was the same as the other rock
and roll on Well.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Geffen was actually asked about that in an NPR piece
and he specifically cited some lyrics about violence towards women
that he had a problem with that were kind of
a little on the gory side, and he.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
Said that was his position on it.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
But I understand, like with death metal and heavy metal
and stuff, there's there's lyrics that are interpreted all kinds
of ways too. But what do you say to that
that it was specifically about violence towards women.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Yeah, I think he full of it, and uh, you know,
but it was his company to do what he wanted
to do. But you know, it's it's almost as as
if you're against a movie where violence take place against women.
You know, it's all at the end of the day,
it's all a joke, you know what I mean. It's
not what I mean by joke. Nobody in that particular song.
(28:49):
If you listen to the song that he's referring to,
it was like a vampire movie type of song or something.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
You know, can I can I jump to some real
fast You were a boxing promoter for a time, were right,
not boxing manager, manager manager, so the others you're still
a boxing manager. So are you excited about any of
this stuff coming up on Saturday, like some of the
(29:19):
big the big UFC fight stuff into the UFC.
Speaker 7 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's gonna be a good fight. Uh.
I don't know who's gonna win. But I like UFC
as well as box They're both great.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And uh, you know, Connor McGregor just had his He
tried his hand at boxing, right and goes so great.
Speaker 7 (29:39):
So there's well it depends that it was best.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
It was the best of his life, right. But you know,
in the same vein in that world, there's a lot
of stuff they don't want you to know, similar to
the music industry. Is there anything you can share with
us about that that whole world?
Speaker 7 (29:58):
Well, just understand that boxing and the music game it's
too cutthroat businesses. And with that being said, you know,
when you're dealing with cutthroat situations, you know, I give
you an example and I wrote about it in the
book Me and Don King. Don King had this fighter
(30:18):
by the name of James Page, who you know wasn't
being treated fairly at all. You know, he had a
deal with with Showtime where two million a fight was
coming his way because of you know, James Page. And
you know James Page was only getting a hundred and
(30:39):
some thousand of that money. So you know, I went
to Don King. I'm like, hey, man, you know this
ain't right.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
We have to eat.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
You know, I'm representing this guy now, so you know,
show some respect and allows us to eat a little more.
And King said to me, brother, if you want him
to eat, then you need to go and figure out
a way for him. You know, this is what I
understood that, and I made some for nest moves, which
(31:10):
caused me to get sued by Don King for like
twenty million dollars, you know, because he felt like I
had took his fighter in which I did and created
a better opportunity. I got him the biggest payday that
he had ever made. To make a long story short,
you know, I worn that laws suit and you know
(31:32):
the headlines read the Prince, the Thrones, the King, which
you know caused my business to try him to a
different level.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Think that's a good headline.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And often in both of these businesses which you just
described as cutthrough, often we see various artists, various even
boxers of fighters referring or maybe I should say, deferring
to you to your opinion to take. Do you see these,
(32:06):
especially these younger people want to follow in your footsteps?
Do you see them learning from you?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Or I guess what of asking is. Do you see
them listening?
Speaker 7 (32:16):
Yeah? Yeah, most definitely. When I speak, they normally listen.
A lot of them reach out to me all the time,
which you know caused me to want to write the
book The Art and Science of Respect because of the
demand of questions that I be asked all the time.
And yeah, they definitely listening. And you know that they
(32:40):
are wiser, you know, because of the information they have
access to. You know, a lot of them are weaker,
but wiser. Yeah, you know. But yeah, I actually like
some of the things that they are doing. You know,
I think that they are more content ownership, is concerned,
(33:01):
more alert and on God than than I would generation.
So yeah, they some of them listen.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Speak speaking of that, you're here in town in Atlanta
for the A three C Conference and festival festival in conference,
excuse me, and you're gonna be speaking about your book
and about a lot of these lessons that you've learned
and what people are learning from you. And uh, this
episode comes out today's Friday. You can go right now
to a three C festival dot com and check out
(33:32):
what's going on. There's still a few days left. You
can go do some things this weekend, so check that
out for sure.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
We got a couple quick, rapid fire questions for you,
just to close this thing out.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
What's it like owning an island? How's that working out
for you? Oh?
Speaker 7 (33:45):
Man, that's a that's a beautiful feeling to be in
a place like this, surrounded by water. And I never
saw a darkness that exists the way it exists around water.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
And oh because there's no light pollution.
Speaker 7 (34:02):
Yeah, the stars are beautiful.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Do you have a secret hideout on your eye? Yes?
Speaker 7 (34:07):
I do.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
How much like what do we have to do to
come hang out with you sometime?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Oh man?
Speaker 7 (34:17):
You know, just just ring me, stop giving me a call,
and we'll make it happen.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
All right, Cool, I'm gonna take you up on that
one more.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
What you got oh, yeah, sure, there are a lot
of rumors about you man, obviously. Yeah, do you have
a pig farm of some sort?
Speaker 7 (34:34):
No, No, I don't have a pig farm, but I
do have a rants with a lot of black angles,
cattle and horses on.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, so we no pigs, well that one, yes, no pigs.
James Prince, thank you so much for taking the time
to come by our studio and fill us in on
a lot of things that the music industry may be
he doesn't want artists and fans to know.
Speaker 7 (35:02):
Right, absolutely, Hey, thank you all for having me.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Courtesy message was awesome.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
Thank you so good.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
All right, we're back here with just the three of
us in the studio. That was pretty intense.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
Huh. That was intense in a lot of levels.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
I mean, mister Prince rolled in with a sizable posse,
and that was amazing and slightly intimidating, but ultimately cool
because they were all super cool, kind, nice people, as
was mister Prince himself, very generous with his time.
Speaker 6 (35:31):
It was a bit of a crunch and we I
felt like we covered most of the bases that we
wanted to.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Absolutely, we didn't really talk about how j Prince is
kind of a scary figure in a way, at least
according to a lot of rumors and a lot of
the legends about him.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
I had a great time speaking with him.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Reminds me of some people that in my family that
were older the meat that I grew up with. And
obviously has been asked some of these questions before, but
I think it's important, especially if you're listening to this
and you want to pursue a career in the music industry.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I think it's important to know a.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Lot of this stuff because, as we had brought up
before in the earlier interview, the music industry is notorious
for doing terrible things to people who are pursuing a
career in music in one way or another. And that's
stuff with Don King one hundred thousand dollars out of
(36:30):
two million that blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Dude, I know well, and I didn't want to get
too deep into it, but the same thing is happening
with big, big organizations like the UFC and their fighters,
where they're making just millions and millions of dollars and
the fighters get paid like fifty to two hundred k,
sometimes less unless you're Connor McGregor.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
That's you're Connor McGregor.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
And you know it might not surprise some people that
there are remors flitting around about this guy, you know,
having to maybe crack some heads in his day or
have them cracked on his behalf because you don't get
to the top as a one man show by being
a sweetheart to everyone.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, the most dangerous person. Let's
go to a weird analogy here talking about bread and
making bread, some of the old sayings here, I am interested.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Okay, well, no, the idea paint the picture for us.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The idea is that you can eat bread. That's great, right,
if you know how to make bread, you can feed yourself.
And if you can make bread like in your house,
that's great. You can feed a couple of your friends
and your family. But if you build a bread factory,
give me like a bakery, a bread factory where you
(37:42):
can literally start feeding everyone sure in your area, that
makes you a very dangerous person because the people that
usually sell the bread, they can't sell it anymore because
you're making it, probably at a little cheaper price, and
you're giving it. Maybe you're giving some way just that
whole idea of being controlled by an outside.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Force versus owning the means of production.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, not to get too cart that, Yeah, that's what
I'm saying. Was that stupid though?
Speaker 6 (38:10):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
And that's a big part about his struggle with the
record industry too, is because this is a guy that
kind of came in built his own model where he
owns the means of production, he does it himself, or
he leagues up with just the bits of the bigger
distros and labels that he needs and then says, I
don't need the rest of this, you know. Yeah, And
that is a model that's kind of coming back around
now in terms of independent labels doing well in terms
(38:34):
of individual artists more owning the means of production, in
terms of being able to afford to press their own
stuff more cheaply, or release it digitally or make money touring.
And I guess the issue is there's maybe not millions
and billions to be made as much anymore as there
were in the old days, except for a very small
elite group of people that are still largely controlled by
(38:55):
the big record labels. But it's still interesting to see
that evolution and see how he looks at the way
things are now.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
It just sounds like he doesn't have a.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Completely bad outlook on it, but it also doesn't sound
like he's a huge fan of the current digital you know,
artist driven right.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, there there were a ton of questions that we
didn't get to, and we wanted to make sure we
got to the things that were more in the in
the realm of cover ups, the things that would be
helpful to you and your fellow listeners. But we left
the interview with several questions still there. Oh, I wanted
(39:35):
to take time to say, Oh, what do you think
of this scientific artist? What do you think of this person?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I wanted to ask him honestly about Kanye in his
recent SNL appearance, there's this whole Yeah, he gave this
whole speech at the end after the show stopped being performance.
Well it was it was the third performance. Ah, like
at the end where you know, everybody comes out on
stage and everything. Kanye did another song and they had
to cut it off because it was like one oh
(40:02):
two or something. It ends at one o'clock in the morning,
and then he gave just a really long speech. Anyway,
if you haven't watched that yet you can find it online.
There's some interesting stuff in there that I think we
should probably explore, having to do with accusations about Democrats
setting up the black community to fail.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Right, Yes, I do remember that part.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
You can see the speech on YouTube, but it might
be in a bootleg version. I think SNL cut it
for their West Coast.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Chris Rock actually filmed a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Seriously, so let us know what you think about cover
ups in the music industry, about the ways in which
the US government or other governments may persecute musicians or entertainers.
You know, how do governments navigate or negotiate with cultural
(40:53):
power centers? Yeah, you know, and we want to hear
your thoughts. We also want to give you a brief
reef spoiler. We are going to have some more music
industry episodes along the way. You might be surprised by
who writes your favorite pop song? Oh that's all we
got for that.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
That's a good spoiler. Should we just go ahead right
now while we have a chance and just call out
the culture kings, like officially, what do you mean and
just say we heard it, We heard what you said,
that's all.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Oh yeah, I'm having fun with that.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
We heard what you said.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
And this aggression will not stand.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
No, no, it will not Oh no.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
But we love you guys, and you know we look
forward to putting out the episode that we just did together.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, and Matt loves you.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I'm playing so yeah. Jai, Chies, Edgar that's their names.
Thanks so much for the Thanks so much for the
shout out, Thanks for the call out. Great to be
on the air, and we're talking with you soon. In
the meantime, you can find.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can
get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
One of the best is to give us a call.
Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you
don't want to do that, you can send us a
good old fashioned email.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
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