September 14, 2021 • 36 mins
On December 9th, 1965, multiple witnesses saw a bright object shoot through the sky and - allegedly - land in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. So what actually happened? Find out in this classic episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So a lot of things happened in the nineteen sixties.
It was a tumultuous, tumultuous time in the US and
throughout the world. And one of the things that a
lot of people don't know about the nineteen sixties is
that it was also a time of pretty prominent UFO sightings. Yeah,
(00:20):
you're you know, around fifteen, maybe a little more years
away from the Roswell incident. People are aware of what
you know, the words to use when describing seeing something strange,
and oh my goodness, we've got a special sighting for
you today. That's right. On December nine of nineteen sixty five,
(00:42):
we have reports of multiple witnesses seeing a bright and
shiny object shooting through the sky and apparently landing in
a little town called Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. Let's find out what
happened from UFOs, two ghosts and government cover ups. History
is riddled within explained events. You can turn back now
(01:02):
or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Hand
I'm Ben and today we are well, at least in
the room. We don't have super producer told with us. Yes,
ladies and gentlemen, our super producer Noel E. T. Brown
(01:25):
has moved on to a better place. He's he's directly outside.
He's directly outside, still on this show, watching us through
a nifty new window because he is moving on up.
But you know what, Matt, even though he's outside, something
tells me that he can hear us. Call it, call
(01:47):
it faith. Call it the pair of headphones I see
him wearing. And and the fact that he's nodding when
we say stuff, Oh, that is weird. He he did
respond in real time. Is it coincidence? Is it an accident?
Is there something else out there? Some other explanation? And
speaking of amazing segues. Today we're working on UFOs, right,
(02:11):
that's correct, specifically an incident that took place in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania that has baffled people ever since the day that
had occurred. Yeah, it's tantalized people. It is irritated skeptics
and ufologists alike, because even today spoiler alert, most people
(02:32):
don't agree about what happened, including uh surviving eyewitnesses. So
what we're going to do is explore the facts of this,
some of the ways that this changed, and in the end,
asked what you think, because this is a fascinating case.
But but okay, so Matt, just just the facts. What
what happened? At around four pm on December nine, nine,
(02:57):
residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, around forty miles outside of Pittsburgh,
saw something bizarre, unexpected, and frightening. A ball of fire
shot through the sky. This thing, reportedly acorn shaped, appeared
to make a controlled crash, slowing down before it hit
the ground. Now, this isn't just one person that's giving
(03:19):
this report to a police officer or something. You know,
it's called calling nine one, Hey, I saw this crazy thing.
This event had hundreds of witnesses. Yet because numerous people
saw it, and the question would be what what was it?
Because we know that these people all saw something, they
didn't just collectively pretend that something happened around five pm
(03:42):
in December night. But was it a military craft, wayward meteorite,
something else? That's right? It to me, just after hearing
the description, it sounds like what we've seen before on
numerous videos, with the meteorite breaking up as it's going
through the atmosphere. Right, because going through the atmosphere is
(04:05):
that no better Roses it's a heck of a trip
and most meters meteorites burn up, right. So this story,
we'll explore the evolution of this story. But for a while,
people thought the case was largely closed until that is,
the nineteen nineties, and listeners, some of you may remember
(04:26):
a show called Unsolved Mysteries. Do you remember that when
met Oh, I definitely do. I loved it. I remember
I remember seeing it on. I guess it must have
been re runs by then, but it came on after
these reruns of ALF, and that was very it was
appropriate to me, it made sense to my my kid mind.
Uh So when when Unsolved Mysteries ran this episode on
(04:48):
Caxburg or this segment rather, uh, the what should we say? Um,
we're a family show, so we'll just say the poop
hit the fan almost immediately. And despite numerous in contradictory reports,
aspects of this instant remain unexplained today. So let's look
at the initial reports, how the subsequent explanations changed, as
(05:10):
well as words from the skeptics, words from those who
were convinced that this was some sort of extra terrestrial object,
and of course the eyewitnesses. That's right, and some of
the people who witnessed this. They claim that they actually
made it to the area or at least close area
to where this thing, whatever it is, impacted, and according
(05:32):
to some of the statements, they came upon a large
metallic acorn shaped object that was just in the ground
that had hit and it was one piece of solid metal.
Uh I think one person said bronze gold in color.
And it didn't have any kind of rivets in it
or anything like that. Didn't have seems, it didn't appear
(05:54):
to be created out of a bunch of man made materials,
you know, the way you would see an aircraft. Sure
like an aircraft at that time would have visible rivets.
You could see clear marks of construction. It's interesting because
one of the witnesses will several actually claim they saw
markings that resembled Egyptian hieroglyphics and Matt, this reminds me, Yeah,
(06:15):
it reminds me of the Oh though the Roswald Crash
reports that we did some videos on I'm gonna go
ahead and say that we didn't see any clear photographs
of this thing at least you and I haven't found any,
but some reportedly reputedly allegedly exists let's go back to
(06:39):
a witness statement. There's a guy who was by the
time when his interview came around, he was a retired
machinist named Jim Romansky, and at the time of the event,
he was an eighteen year old volunteer firefighter. He said
he saw the object and looked like it was liquid
metal poured into a mold. And we can we can
(07:00):
look more at this later, but let's introduce one of
the most important witnesses for this story. A name you
need to remember is John Murphy. Now, at the time,
he was a brand new director of w h j
B in nearby Greensburg, which is it's a radio station,
exactly a radio station, gentlemen, And remember John Murphy. Now,
(07:24):
he received word of this event from a listener, which
is kind of cool, right, that idea that you're sitting
there doing your job as as you know, on the air,
and then what this thing, mysterious thing crashed and you're
stuck in a room, and you know, you're trying to
get in as much information as you can. I can.
I am so jealous of John Murphy in this instance. Well, yeah,
(07:47):
people still will call radio stations, and so he's the director.
I imagine he's sitting somewhere very much where you're sitting old,
directing things. Right. Okay, yeah, he really can hear us.
So back to the story, Yes, he He receives a
call from a listener named Francis Kelp. She reports that
(08:07):
something crazy had happened. Uh, the sky is falling, well
maybe not all of it, but some of it, well
maybe not some of it, but one flaming object has
fallen near her home. She said that she and her
kids approached this thing and they got about a half
mile away from it, and they saw what she described
as a four pointed star. So what Murphy do? Well,
(08:28):
first of all, let's just point out that a four
pointed star is a very different description than we've heard before, right, yeah,
for all the other stuff, right, Okay, So she calls
the Pennsylvania State Police and they asked her to meet
and lead them to where she found this thing. Now
back to John Murphy. He called the the Pennsylvania State
(08:48):
Police after he heard of this, and he asked Kelp
the the lady that we just said who went out
and saw the thing, to meet and then lead them
to where she saw it. Then Urphy himself drives out
to check it out. And here's the thing, we don't
know who made it there first. Was it Murphy, was
it the cops? Yeah? His wife. Murphy's wife, Bonnie Murphy,
(09:11):
said that she believes her husband made it out there first.
But as far as whether how true that is, we
we don't know. We do know that Murphy interviewed Francis
Kalpener kids at the scene um and he also ran
into state police officials Carl Metz and Paul Shipco, and
(09:32):
after they walked out of the woods, they were evasive
to Murphy, or he found them evasa when he asked
what they had seen, and they all they said was
that the military would be involved. So Murphy did what
so many of us have probably done when when we're
not happy with our interactions with an organization. He escalated it. Yeah.
(09:54):
So Murphy, however, was not one to be cowed or intimidated,
and he called uh mets and ship Co's boss. He
called the state police captain, whom my belief was named
Dousa d U s s A. Uh Dousa responded pretty
favorably and invited Murphy to come to the police office
(10:15):
in Greensburg to hear the official statement from the FEDS.
Members of the Army and the Air Force were there,
and we have a their official statement to quote at
least right the Pennsylvania State Police have made a thorough
search in the woods. We are convinced that there is
nothing whatsoever in the woods. Nothing We found nothing, not
(10:38):
even trees or wildlife. Yep, zilch zip nothing to see here, yep,
zip zitch not a surf. Uh. So Murphy Murphy takes
this statement, and obviously he doesn't believe it. He overhears
officers talking about a pulsating blue light, and when he
learns that they're going to return to the site, he
(11:00):
asked them if he can come with them, uh, and
they say yes. But when they get to the woods,
he's not allowed in there. The military has reportedly cordoned
off the area, you know, put the tape up, put
some guards around the perimeter, restricted access. And then several
witnesses say that they saw a large flatbed truck leaving
(11:22):
the same spot with a conical object of some sort
under the tarp, after which the military began to leave
as well. Man, so put yourself in Murphy's shoes here,
What do you do? You think that these guys are
hiding something that, you know, depending on what it is,
could have huge consequences on all of mankind perhaps or
(11:45):
maybe even just your country if it's another country's thing
that fell out of the sky. Uh, what do you do? Well,
Murphy decides that he's going to work on a radio
special called Object in the Woods, and he's interviewing witnesses.
He's talking to as many people as he can and
putting it on air. Now, a few days before this
(12:07):
special aired, witnesses began calling Murphy and requesting that he
chop out the parts that they were in. And you
know why why would they want that? Well, they were
fearing that the army, whoever is really in control of
the situation, maybe just the police, would somehow retaliate against
(12:28):
them for even talking about this thing. Now, after the
show men in suits visited Murphy, they went to his office.
They spoke in this back room for about half an hour.
They took his taped interviews when they left, and Murphy
refused to talk about this incident again. Now, that's pretty crazy,
(12:51):
right that that sounds like something you would write in
a script. Sure, it sounds it sounds very similar to
numerous men in black stories and anecdotes. It's it's true, though, Matt.
People do get visited, especially back then, people would get
visited by the Feds, just men in nondescript suits. You know,
(13:15):
it did happen. Murphy's wife, Bonnie noted that his his
research and the documents that they have been keeping were
gone as well, and she never saw the photographs that
Murphy took because he refused to speak about this incident. Allegedly,
(13:36):
he gave a copy of the unedited full documentary to
a man named Stan Gordon, but this unedited version of
the documentary has also disappeared. Uh. Stan Gordon is someone
who will come up later when we talk about the
modern day. Uh. He is someone who you can check
(13:57):
out if you believe there is some rotten in Denmark
or should I say rotten in Cakesburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah. So
let's look at some of these initial public statements. Huh okay, Well,
the first one the Spokesman Review. They published a story
on December ten called UFO Starts Many Fires and in
(14:19):
this piece they claim that the the objects set a
bunch of fires, or it started a bunch of fires
when it when it landed and or crashed. There were
lots of bursts of light that occurred when this when
this thing came down, and also a lot of smoke
before hitting the earth. Now in this in this story,
this is a fairly short article which you can look
(14:41):
up for yourself online and you'll see reports of different
fires happening around different parts of the Pennsylvania area and
outside of it. There's a report of somebody describing this
as a volleyball shaped object or volleyball size. But we
also have to keep in mind that for someone on
(15:02):
the ground with a fast moving object and a bright one,
it can be very difficult for us to have a
true understanding of the size of the object and the
distance of the object. And this is something that's going
to come up with some of the skeptical statements as well.
Another funny thing happens. The Air Force changes the official
(15:22):
report to state that instead of not find anything in
the woods, a meteorite fell to earth. Most people accepted
this explanation. The case seemed closed for decades. However, that
wasn't the last time the story would change. Yeah, that's true. Man.
In the As we said, this story hit the public
(15:44):
eye and the public mind a new things to the
folks at Unsolved Mysteries, and this was controversial in the area. Yeah,
at the time, people who lived in Caxburg really you know,
they were divided. Some people he didn't like the attention
that this was bringing to their fairly small town. And
(16:05):
you know, uh, I think there was even a petition
that was gathered together and signed by a lot of people. Sure, yeah,
some of whom just didn't want the show of filmed.
They weren't alive when it happened. They had never claimed
to be witnesses, but they didn't want Unsolved Mysteries or
television types stirring up more out of towners and violating privacy.
(16:30):
I imagine it is interesting because it seems like it
would be, I don't know, a boom to your small
town if oh, there's a UFO store there. Now, this
this tourist industry that sprouts out around these things is
is definitely in swing there After the show, more witnesses
came forward, and will call them self identified witnesses because
(16:52):
they don't have a lot of confirmation, so these are anecdotes.
One one person was United States Air Force officer who
apparently tasked with guarding this flatbed truck we mentioned earlier
and told it was bound for Right Patterson Air Force Base.
Another one was a building contractor who apparently transported a
(17:13):
load of six quote special bricks whatever, whatever the heck
that is to a hangar inside right Patterson this is
an air Force space. And he looked inside and he
claims that he saw this bell shaped device with uh
some some men wearing these you know, the white radiation
(17:35):
suits on TV before the radiation protection suits. Yeah, and
he said, these guys are looking at it, going all
over it, just trying to figure out either either studying
it or something. And they start escorting the mountain. Tell him,
they say, he just saw an object that in twenty
years would become common knowledge. And we do know, Okay,
I have to say this in point of fairness, Matt.
(17:58):
We do know that, especially in terms of aircraft, uh,
that is completely possible twit years, not just for the
United States to do it, but for other countries, you know, China, Russia,
probably several European countries have that capability. Um, but the
United States is one of the biggest in the game.
(18:20):
So as soon as this happens, as soon as unsolved
Mysteries runs this thing. Uh numerous other shows began focusing
on Kecksburg, and they're tantalizing the UFO believers with things
that are not quite answers, and they're doubtlessly irritating the
heck out of you know, like the overly emotional skeptics.
And and uh so the question is what what exactly landed?
(18:43):
We have several possibilities, right. The first one, like we
said at the top, and then was the official story
for a while, there a meteorite, right yeah, and that's
clearly possible. I mean, eighteen thousand to eighty four thousand
meteorites that are larger than ten grams hit Earth every year. Yeah.
(19:04):
And then if you look at something like the Geminid
meteor shower, I mean it was in progress at the time.
Of course, astronomer Louis Winker from Penn State, he doesn't
think anything could have survived the passage through the atmosphere
to the ground, at least that would match up what
people saw at the expert incident. Right. Yeah, then there's
(19:24):
we'll go ahead and throw it out there. There's the
possibility of an unidentified non man made object. And this
one of the big things that people use as proof
of this is that there is proof of um secrecy,
(19:44):
shifting stories, official sources, contradicting one another. But again, the
big question is if there really was an extraterrestrial thing,
then how on or off Earth could it be kept
secret for so long? That's asking a lot, especially if
people already you know, especially if we have a guy
(20:05):
who's working on a documentary, if we have all these
other people coming forward and saying stuff, Um, yeah, you
have to wonder what what else? That is an extraordinary claim.
But there are other claims that people put a little
bit more, give a little bit more consideration too. Perhaps
what if what if this thing was a Russian satellite,
specifically the Venus Cosmos satellite. Yes, now that is an
(20:30):
excellent question, and that's still one of the front running theories. Uh.
There is a Soviet satellite spacecraft expert named James Oberke,
who I think we've mentioned in a couple of other
shows before. He is he is a UFO skeptic um,
but he also believes that he's also skeptical or was
for a while about this Cosmos nineties six satellite because
(20:53):
he said, like the timing might not match up but
later he came up with a possible explanation. He said
that the cosmos have been set to re enter the
atmosphere and crashing Canada thirteen hours before, and so that
would put it at, you know, around three in the morning.
After three in the morning. Uh. He has an interview
in Omni magazine where he says that maybe what entered
(21:15):
the area at that time instead was a rocket booster,
and that the probe itself fell to Earth and crashed
in Kecksburg. But this leads us down a really interesting
thing that I wanted to give a shout out too,
because the Russian and American forces at this time had
sort of a handshake agreement with you know, if some
(21:37):
if one of if the U S satellite falls in
something under the Russian sphere of influence. Notice I don't
just say Russia. Um, if something falls in the U. S.
Sphere of influence, then we will get it and we
will give it back to you. Um. However that is
that may not have always been the case, but it
would explain massive secrecy because the Force apparently had a
(22:02):
secret operation called Project moon Dust, and their purpose was
to get any foreign space probes that crashed. So their
purpose was kind of too secretly get get around this,
this uh informal agreement. I would just like, can point
something out here. I can't imagine someone from you know,
(22:25):
fairly middle of nowhere Kexsburg, Pennsylvania, seeing a ship that
has a bunch of cyrillic written on it might just
associate it with something that is not a I hate
to say this because it sounds like I'm saying some
of the witnesses were either not intelligent or just didn't
(22:46):
understand what Russian looked like. But perhaps they didn't. It
is possible. I mean, you know, a lot of people
aren't reading cyrillic as a you know, as a percentage
of our population, even today in the United States. You know,
that's why being able to read and speak Russian is
such an incredibly valuable skill. Were any foreign language really
(23:08):
a lot of a lot of It's true, man, a
lot of us here in the United States are not polyglots,
so me but yeah, I can imagine, or you know,
you could always say, well, what if Russia was getting
Soviet Union was getting tricky and putting hieroglyphs on their
satellites just for fun. Sure, it's yeah, it is It
(23:31):
is totally possible. Um. The the other thing here is
there's a possibility that it was a secret United States
project that crashed in the ground. That is so possible
that could happen today. Let's just go ahead and just
to depict other things that are secret that the United
States could have crashed to the ground somewhere. X thirty
(23:53):
seven B an unmanned spacecraft that just goes out in
space and hangs out for days. But what does it do? Ben?
You know? That is such a great it is such
a great question. Uh, Matt's Matt is buzzing my chops
a little bit because I went through a period where
I would come up to your desk pretty much every day,
(24:14):
and even though it was clear that neither of us
knew what the X thirty seven B was doing, I
would kind of harass both of us. I mean, it
was fun, it was a trouble shooting something that is
impossible to solve. But what what does it? Anyway, that's
the story for a different show, and hopefully that news
will come out soon. So there's another possibility that I
(24:39):
read about on a more more skeptical sided site, which
well we'll talk about the end. That just says, note
this Hecksburg incident, this was all the confusion. Nothing landed.
There was a Great Lakes fireball at the same time.
And then due to the problems of perception that humans
have on the ground looking the sky, that people thought
(25:01):
it was closer than it was, it wasn't actually anything there.
I don't know if I don't know how how much
I believe that because of some later statements. So let's
go to the modern day where we meet a sharp
(25:22):
journalist from New York City named Leslie Keene. Leslie Keene
filed an f o I, a Freedom of Information Act
requests with NASA, and she ended up in a lawsuit
against NASA. And this was with the Sci Fi Channel.
So let's be clear about this. She had a she
had a big supporting patron behind her that enabled this
(25:43):
kind of uh David against Goliath thing. Uh. In December
two thousand five, NASA said that they examined metallic fragments
from this object and claimed that it was a Russian satellite,
that it really was a Russian satellite. The NASA spokesman
said that, by the way, we lost the records of this. Yeah,
(26:06):
we just can't find them. Yeah, yeah, we can't and
if they if they said, if this was true, then
you know, they said they lost it in the ninety nineties.
Uh And in their in their statement they say that
what they can't track UFOs, So what they did was
(26:27):
to take a look at whatever did fall and give
their expert opinion, their best guess. Right, um, but the like,
we don't know how much that bears out because as
part of this work on the sci Fi show, uh
Leslie Keene had people check the orbital paths of all
known satellites and other records from the period in sixty
(26:48):
and the experts she had checking said that it was
absolutely impossible for any part of the Cosmos Venus probe
to have accounted for either the fireball or any object
at Kattsburg. And these experts said, furthermore, there were no
other man made satellites or other objects that re entered
the atmosphere that day, well according to the official records,
(27:13):
right yeah. And then speaking of records, they note people
have noted, you know the same thing, you and I
are not being here, Like, how questionable is it that
NASA could lose records? I think, you know, I think
that if it really is a Russian satellite in the
mid in the middle of the Cold War, a Russian
(27:36):
satellite fell to the United States, right, and now we're
decades and decades away from this event. It's strange that.
I mean, Okay, Matt, I will say, maybe the records
were honestly lost, but if they were purposely lost, if
they were destroyed, Uh, what prevents NASA from saying, yeah,
(27:57):
we destroyed them, Like what what prevents that from coming
to light? Is their statute of limitations? Is it something
that still impacts national security? Yeah? And what happens what
are the consequences of, oh, man, we misplaced some documents.
Are there any consequences? I I can't imagine that there
would be any, because you know, it was a clerical
(28:18):
error or this happened. Yeah, that's a that's a good question,
and it it may well be that more information emerges
about this and solidifies what what we do know or
what witnesses are saying. But now it's time for us
to follow up on some of our earlier mentioned players.
What happened to John Murphy, Well, apparently he never spoke
(28:42):
about whatever conversation that he had with the men in
suits let's call them, um like he he just never
even talked about it to anybody that that we have
record of. After the airing of the heavily censored documentary
that he made, yeah, a few a few years after,
right nineteen exactly, he went on to vacation. He went
(29:05):
to Ventura, California, and unfortunately, when he was out there,
he was killed in a hit and run accident. And
after his death, his wife, who we mentioned earlier, Bonnie Murphy,
said that her husband really did have photos of an object,
but that they were confiscated these photos. She's saying something
(29:28):
really did land. The state police confiscated it, and he
was threatened with grave consequences, grave enough and believable enough
at least that he was silenced on this for life.
That's very intense. I can imagine, as someone with the
family that if someone threatened my family, then you would
(29:51):
I would have to think very long and hard about
my you know, my moral high ground or my instincts
to want to go at for the truth for something
like this. That's scary to me. Well, it's it's a situation,
you know, if if that kind of stuff occurs, When
that stuff kind of occurs, we know it's a situation
(30:13):
that is not unique that really has happened in the past,
um and not necessarily you know, with one one particular
country or one particular government or administration. Uh, this stuff
is happening today to journalists across the world from myriad reasons.
Don't report on corruption in uh was Venezuela yet And
(30:37):
they're they're different, There are different things. Being a journalist
is a is a very risky and stressful lifestyle, I understand.
But we do have some further reading. We've only been
able to look at I guess a little bit beneath
the surface of Cacksburg, and we want to hear from you.
Do you think this is a meteorite? Do you think
(30:58):
this is four in technology? And if so, how foreign?
USSR China non terrestrial? So let's go towards just to
end on some uh some further reading here. I'll start
with just the skeptical thing. We mentioned that some of
the skeptical sides had claimed this, uh, this event and
(31:22):
Kexburg was confused with the Great Lakes fireball, And that's
from a site called debunker dot com and they say
that the Kexburg crash itself is sensationalism and They have
some great sources if you want to check this out.
One of them they cited an issue of Sky and
Telescope magazine, where a professor of geophysics and geology named GW.
(31:46):
Weather Hill says the following the fireball was observed by
many people in Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and to a
lesser extent in the neighboring states. In newspaper accounts, a
great many suppose as impact sites were reported both in
southwestern Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. Fragments were claimed to have
(32:07):
fallen in Ohio and Michigan. These imagined happenings arose from
the impossibility of estimating the distance of an object in
the sky. Almost everyone who saw the fireball thought it
was much closer than it really was. When it disappeared
behind a house or a tree, many people thought it
had fallen only a few hundred yards beyond. And that's
(32:31):
that's a really important thing, because the weather Hill is
bringing up two concepts here. The first, we know it's true,
it is credibly difficult, maybe impossible, with the naked eye
to estimate the distance of an object in the sky. Uh. Secondly,
you know some people thought it was much closer and
really was. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, he's seeing nowhere
(32:54):
numerous possible crash sites from debris right, so not one Cacksburg,
but none who knows how many. Um this this is interesting,
but you know, of course, we want to present that
side of the argument and see what you think about it.
If you want to get some in depth information on
something that explores Kecksburg in um more of a conspiratorial
(33:18):
side of the story and goes into much more depth
than the mainstream TV shows, then do check out the
work of stand Gordon if you if you look at
some of his stuff, which you can find available online,
we would love to hear your views. Tell us what
you think happened on the afternoon of December nine in Kesburg, Pennsylvania,
(33:41):
or what didn't happen. So find us on Twitter, guys,
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dude or lady. Oh, before we go, Ben, one more thing,
(34:03):
we wanted to address Oh yes, we wanted to thank
everybody who checked out our one of our recent audio
podcast on race and policing in the United States specifically,
and we received some great feedback on this, both in
terms of constructive criticism and in terms of valid pointers
(34:25):
for where to head next. One of the best points,
at least in my opinion, was that we were talking
about arrest rates and incarceration rates, but we weren't talking
about the rates of the crimes that were committed, uh,
in in the same way. So we heard this and
we would like to explore this. Uh, we're gonna look
(34:45):
at crime. We have some stuff that touches on it. Earlier,
you know, we've talked about militarization of police. We've talked
about the gradualization. Yeah, and we've also explored I don't
know if we've done it in this show, but some
others shows we've explored some of the problems of having
a bigger society and whether people are hardwired to only
(35:07):
be able to consider a couple of a smaller number
of people human beings. It's called the Dunbarns number. Was
that brain stuff? I think that was an episode you
did of brain Stuff. It was on brain Stuff. We
should also check it out there. We're going to head out.
There is another thing that we'd like to cover in
more depth later. I don't know when we'll get to it,
but that is the Brazilian version of Operation Blue Book.
(35:31):
We hope you stay tuned for that, and we hope
you check out our video coming up later on this
week is your Government building UFOs. And that's the end
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(35:52):
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(36:13):
favorite shows.
So a lot of things happened in the nineteen sixties.
It was a tumultuous, tumultuous time in the US and
throughout the world. And one of the things that a
lot of people don't know about the nineteen sixties is
that it was also a time of pretty prominent UFO sightings. Yeah,
(00:20):
you're you know, around fifteen, maybe a little more years
away from the Roswell incident. People are aware of what
you know, the words to use when describing seeing something strange,
and oh my goodness, we've got a special sighting for
you today. That's right. On December nine of nineteen sixty five,
(00:42):
we have reports of multiple witnesses seeing a bright and
shiny object shooting through the sky and apparently landing in
a little town called Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. Let's find out what
happened from UFOs, two ghosts and government cover ups. History
is riddled within explained events. You can turn back now
(01:02):
or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Hand
I'm Ben and today we are well, at least in
the room. We don't have super producer told with us. Yes,
ladies and gentlemen, our super producer Noel E. T. Brown
(01:25):
has moved on to a better place. He's he's directly outside.
He's directly outside, still on this show, watching us through
a nifty new window because he is moving on up.
But you know what, Matt, even though he's outside, something
tells me that he can hear us. Call it, call
(01:47):
it faith. Call it the pair of headphones I see
him wearing. And and the fact that he's nodding when
we say stuff, Oh, that is weird. He he did
respond in real time. Is it coincidence? Is it an accident?
Is there something else out there? Some other explanation? And
speaking of amazing segues. Today we're working on UFOs, right,
(02:11):
that's correct, specifically an incident that took place in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania that has baffled people ever since the day that
had occurred. Yeah, it's tantalized people. It is irritated skeptics
and ufologists alike, because even today spoiler alert, most people
(02:32):
don't agree about what happened, including uh surviving eyewitnesses. So
what we're going to do is explore the facts of this,
some of the ways that this changed, and in the end,
asked what you think, because this is a fascinating case.
But but okay, so Matt, just just the facts. What
what happened? At around four pm on December nine, nine,
(02:57):
residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, around forty miles outside of Pittsburgh,
saw something bizarre, unexpected, and frightening. A ball of fire
shot through the sky. This thing, reportedly acorn shaped, appeared
to make a controlled crash, slowing down before it hit
the ground. Now, this isn't just one person that's giving
(03:19):
this report to a police officer or something. You know,
it's called calling nine one, Hey, I saw this crazy thing.
This event had hundreds of witnesses. Yet because numerous people
saw it, and the question would be what what was it?
Because we know that these people all saw something, they
didn't just collectively pretend that something happened around five pm
(03:42):
in December night. But was it a military craft, wayward meteorite,
something else? That's right? It to me, just after hearing
the description, it sounds like what we've seen before on
numerous videos, with the meteorite breaking up as it's going
through the atmosphere. Right, because going through the atmosphere is
(04:05):
that no better Roses it's a heck of a trip
and most meters meteorites burn up, right. So this story,
we'll explore the evolution of this story. But for a while,
people thought the case was largely closed until that is,
the nineteen nineties, and listeners, some of you may remember
(04:26):
a show called Unsolved Mysteries. Do you remember that when
met Oh, I definitely do. I loved it. I remember
I remember seeing it on. I guess it must have
been re runs by then, but it came on after
these reruns of ALF, and that was very it was
appropriate to me, it made sense to my my kid mind.
Uh So when when Unsolved Mysteries ran this episode on
(04:48):
Caxburg or this segment rather, uh, the what should we say? Um,
we're a family show, so we'll just say the poop
hit the fan almost immediately. And despite numerous in contradictory reports,
aspects of this instant remain unexplained today. So let's look
at the initial reports, how the subsequent explanations changed, as
(05:10):
well as words from the skeptics, words from those who
were convinced that this was some sort of extra terrestrial object,
and of course the eyewitnesses. That's right, and some of
the people who witnessed this. They claim that they actually
made it to the area or at least close area
to where this thing, whatever it is, impacted, and according
(05:32):
to some of the statements, they came upon a large
metallic acorn shaped object that was just in the ground
that had hit and it was one piece of solid metal.
Uh I think one person said bronze gold in color.
And it didn't have any kind of rivets in it
or anything like that. Didn't have seems, it didn't appear
(05:54):
to be created out of a bunch of man made materials,
you know, the way you would see an aircraft. Sure
like an aircraft at that time would have visible rivets.
You could see clear marks of construction. It's interesting because
one of the witnesses will several actually claim they saw
markings that resembled Egyptian hieroglyphics and Matt, this reminds me, Yeah,
(06:15):
it reminds me of the Oh though the Roswald Crash
reports that we did some videos on I'm gonna go
ahead and say that we didn't see any clear photographs
of this thing at least you and I haven't found any,
but some reportedly reputedly allegedly exists let's go back to
(06:39):
a witness statement. There's a guy who was by the
time when his interview came around, he was a retired
machinist named Jim Romansky, and at the time of the event,
he was an eighteen year old volunteer firefighter. He said
he saw the object and looked like it was liquid
metal poured into a mold. And we can we can
(07:00):
look more at this later, but let's introduce one of
the most important witnesses for this story. A name you
need to remember is John Murphy. Now, at the time,
he was a brand new director of w h j
B in nearby Greensburg, which is it's a radio station,
exactly a radio station, gentlemen, And remember John Murphy. Now,
(07:24):
he received word of this event from a listener, which
is kind of cool, right, that idea that you're sitting
there doing your job as as you know, on the air,
and then what this thing, mysterious thing crashed and you're
stuck in a room, and you know, you're trying to
get in as much information as you can. I can.
I am so jealous of John Murphy in this instance. Well, yeah,
(07:47):
people still will call radio stations, and so he's the director.
I imagine he's sitting somewhere very much where you're sitting old,
directing things. Right. Okay, yeah, he really can hear us.
So back to the story, Yes, he He receives a
call from a listener named Francis Kelp. She reports that
(08:07):
something crazy had happened. Uh, the sky is falling, well
maybe not all of it, but some of it, well
maybe not some of it, but one flaming object has
fallen near her home. She said that she and her
kids approached this thing and they got about a half
mile away from it, and they saw what she described
as a four pointed star. So what Murphy do? Well,
(08:28):
first of all, let's just point out that a four
pointed star is a very different description than we've heard before, right, yeah,
for all the other stuff, right, Okay, So she calls
the Pennsylvania State Police and they asked her to meet
and lead them to where she found this thing. Now
back to John Murphy. He called the the Pennsylvania State
(08:48):
Police after he heard of this, and he asked Kelp
the the lady that we just said who went out
and saw the thing, to meet and then lead them
to where she saw it. Then Urphy himself drives out
to check it out. And here's the thing, we don't
know who made it there first. Was it Murphy, was
it the cops? Yeah? His wife. Murphy's wife, Bonnie Murphy,
(09:11):
said that she believes her husband made it out there first.
But as far as whether how true that is, we
we don't know. We do know that Murphy interviewed Francis
Kalpener kids at the scene um and he also ran
into state police officials Carl Metz and Paul Shipco, and
(09:32):
after they walked out of the woods, they were evasive
to Murphy, or he found them evasa when he asked
what they had seen, and they all they said was
that the military would be involved. So Murphy did what
so many of us have probably done when when we're
not happy with our interactions with an organization. He escalated it. Yeah.
(09:54):
So Murphy, however, was not one to be cowed or intimidated,
and he called uh mets and ship Co's boss. He
called the state police captain, whom my belief was named
Dousa d U s s A. Uh Dousa responded pretty
favorably and invited Murphy to come to the police office
(10:15):
in Greensburg to hear the official statement from the FEDS.
Members of the Army and the Air Force were there,
and we have a their official statement to quote at
least right the Pennsylvania State Police have made a thorough
search in the woods. We are convinced that there is
nothing whatsoever in the woods. Nothing We found nothing, not
(10:38):
even trees or wildlife. Yep, zilch zip nothing to see here, yep,
zip zitch not a surf. Uh. So Murphy Murphy takes
this statement, and obviously he doesn't believe it. He overhears
officers talking about a pulsating blue light, and when he
learns that they're going to return to the site, he
(11:00):
asked them if he can come with them, uh, and
they say yes. But when they get to the woods,
he's not allowed in there. The military has reportedly cordoned
off the area, you know, put the tape up, put
some guards around the perimeter, restricted access. And then several
witnesses say that they saw a large flatbed truck leaving
(11:22):
the same spot with a conical object of some sort
under the tarp, after which the military began to leave
as well. Man, so put yourself in Murphy's shoes here,
What do you do? You think that these guys are
hiding something that, you know, depending on what it is,
could have huge consequences on all of mankind perhaps or
(11:45):
maybe even just your country if it's another country's thing
that fell out of the sky. Uh, what do you do? Well,
Murphy decides that he's going to work on a radio
special called Object in the Woods, and he's interviewing witnesses.
He's talking to as many people as he can and
putting it on air. Now, a few days before this
(12:07):
special aired, witnesses began calling Murphy and requesting that he
chop out the parts that they were in. And you
know why why would they want that? Well, they were
fearing that the army, whoever is really in control of
the situation, maybe just the police, would somehow retaliate against
(12:28):
them for even talking about this thing. Now, after the
show men in suits visited Murphy, they went to his office.
They spoke in this back room for about half an hour.
They took his taped interviews when they left, and Murphy
refused to talk about this incident again. Now, that's pretty crazy,
(12:51):
right that that sounds like something you would write in
a script. Sure, it sounds it sounds very similar to
numerous men in black stories and anecdotes. It's it's true, though, Matt.
People do get visited, especially back then, people would get
visited by the Feds, just men in nondescript suits. You know,
(13:15):
it did happen. Murphy's wife, Bonnie noted that his his
research and the documents that they have been keeping were
gone as well, and she never saw the photographs that
Murphy took because he refused to speak about this incident. Allegedly,
(13:36):
he gave a copy of the unedited full documentary to
a man named Stan Gordon, but this unedited version of
the documentary has also disappeared. Uh. Stan Gordon is someone
who will come up later when we talk about the
modern day. Uh. He is someone who you can check
(13:57):
out if you believe there is some rotten in Denmark
or should I say rotten in Cakesburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah. So
let's look at some of these initial public statements. Huh okay, Well,
the first one the Spokesman Review. They published a story
on December ten called UFO Starts Many Fires and in
(14:19):
this piece they claim that the the objects set a
bunch of fires, or it started a bunch of fires
when it when it landed and or crashed. There were
lots of bursts of light that occurred when this when
this thing came down, and also a lot of smoke
before hitting the earth. Now in this in this story,
this is a fairly short article which you can look
(14:41):
up for yourself online and you'll see reports of different
fires happening around different parts of the Pennsylvania area and
outside of it. There's a report of somebody describing this
as a volleyball shaped object or volleyball size. But we
also have to keep in mind that for someone on
(15:02):
the ground with a fast moving object and a bright one,
it can be very difficult for us to have a
true understanding of the size of the object and the
distance of the object. And this is something that's going
to come up with some of the skeptical statements as well.
Another funny thing happens. The Air Force changes the official
(15:22):
report to state that instead of not find anything in
the woods, a meteorite fell to earth. Most people accepted
this explanation. The case seemed closed for decades. However, that
wasn't the last time the story would change. Yeah, that's true. Man.
In the As we said, this story hit the public
(15:44):
eye and the public mind a new things to the
folks at Unsolved Mysteries, and this was controversial in the area. Yeah,
at the time, people who lived in Caxburg really you know,
they were divided. Some people he didn't like the attention
that this was bringing to their fairly small town. And
(16:05):
you know, uh, I think there was even a petition
that was gathered together and signed by a lot of people. Sure, yeah,
some of whom just didn't want the show of filmed.
They weren't alive when it happened. They had never claimed
to be witnesses, but they didn't want Unsolved Mysteries or
television types stirring up more out of towners and violating privacy.
(16:30):
I imagine it is interesting because it seems like it
would be, I don't know, a boom to your small
town if oh, there's a UFO store there. Now, this
this tourist industry that sprouts out around these things is
is definitely in swing there After the show, more witnesses
came forward, and will call them self identified witnesses because
(16:52):
they don't have a lot of confirmation, so these are anecdotes.
One one person was United States Air Force officer who
apparently tasked with guarding this flatbed truck we mentioned earlier
and told it was bound for Right Patterson Air Force Base.
Another one was a building contractor who apparently transported a
(17:13):
load of six quote special bricks whatever, whatever the heck
that is to a hangar inside right Patterson this is
an air Force space. And he looked inside and he
claims that he saw this bell shaped device with uh
some some men wearing these you know, the white radiation
(17:35):
suits on TV before the radiation protection suits. Yeah, and
he said, these guys are looking at it, going all
over it, just trying to figure out either either studying
it or something. And they start escorting the mountain. Tell him,
they say, he just saw an object that in twenty
years would become common knowledge. And we do know, Okay,
I have to say this in point of fairness, Matt.
(17:58):
We do know that, especially in terms of aircraft, uh,
that is completely possible twit years, not just for the
United States to do it, but for other countries, you know, China, Russia,
probably several European countries have that capability. Um, but the
United States is one of the biggest in the game.
(18:20):
So as soon as this happens, as soon as unsolved
Mysteries runs this thing. Uh numerous other shows began focusing
on Kecksburg, and they're tantalizing the UFO believers with things
that are not quite answers, and they're doubtlessly irritating the
heck out of you know, like the overly emotional skeptics.
And and uh so the question is what what exactly landed?
(18:43):
We have several possibilities, right. The first one, like we
said at the top, and then was the official story
for a while, there a meteorite, right yeah, and that's
clearly possible. I mean, eighteen thousand to eighty four thousand
meteorites that are larger than ten grams hit Earth every year. Yeah.
(19:04):
And then if you look at something like the Geminid
meteor shower, I mean it was in progress at the time.
Of course, astronomer Louis Winker from Penn State, he doesn't
think anything could have survived the passage through the atmosphere
to the ground, at least that would match up what
people saw at the expert incident. Right. Yeah, then there's
(19:24):
we'll go ahead and throw it out there. There's the
possibility of an unidentified non man made object. And this
one of the big things that people use as proof
of this is that there is proof of um secrecy,
(19:44):
shifting stories, official sources, contradicting one another. But again, the
big question is if there really was an extraterrestrial thing,
then how on or off Earth could it be kept
secret for so long? That's asking a lot, especially if
people already you know, especially if we have a guy
(20:05):
who's working on a documentary, if we have all these
other people coming forward and saying stuff, Um, yeah, you
have to wonder what what else? That is an extraordinary claim.
But there are other claims that people put a little
bit more, give a little bit more consideration too. Perhaps
what if what if this thing was a Russian satellite,
specifically the Venus Cosmos satellite. Yes, now that is an
(20:30):
excellent question, and that's still one of the front running theories. Uh.
There is a Soviet satellite spacecraft expert named James Oberke,
who I think we've mentioned in a couple of other
shows before. He is he is a UFO skeptic um,
but he also believes that he's also skeptical or was
for a while about this Cosmos nineties six satellite because
(20:53):
he said, like the timing might not match up but
later he came up with a possible explanation. He said
that the cosmos have been set to re enter the
atmosphere and crashing Canada thirteen hours before, and so that
would put it at, you know, around three in the morning.
After three in the morning. Uh. He has an interview
in Omni magazine where he says that maybe what entered
(21:15):
the area at that time instead was a rocket booster,
and that the probe itself fell to Earth and crashed
in Kecksburg. But this leads us down a really interesting
thing that I wanted to give a shout out too,
because the Russian and American forces at this time had
sort of a handshake agreement with you know, if some
(21:37):
if one of if the U S satellite falls in
something under the Russian sphere of influence. Notice I don't
just say Russia. Um, if something falls in the U. S.
Sphere of influence, then we will get it and we
will give it back to you. Um. However that is
that may not have always been the case, but it
would explain massive secrecy because the Force apparently had a
(22:02):
secret operation called Project moon Dust, and their purpose was
to get any foreign space probes that crashed. So their
purpose was kind of too secretly get get around this,
this uh informal agreement. I would just like, can point
something out here. I can't imagine someone from you know,
(22:25):
fairly middle of nowhere Kexsburg, Pennsylvania, seeing a ship that
has a bunch of cyrillic written on it might just
associate it with something that is not a I hate
to say this because it sounds like I'm saying some
of the witnesses were either not intelligent or just didn't
(22:46):
understand what Russian looked like. But perhaps they didn't. It
is possible. I mean, you know, a lot of people
aren't reading cyrillic as a you know, as a percentage
of our population, even today in the United States. You know,
that's why being able to read and speak Russian is
such an incredibly valuable skill. Were any foreign language really
(23:08):
a lot of a lot of It's true, man, a
lot of us here in the United States are not polyglots,
so me but yeah, I can imagine, or you know,
you could always say, well, what if Russia was getting
Soviet Union was getting tricky and putting hieroglyphs on their
satellites just for fun. Sure, it's yeah, it is It
(23:31):
is totally possible. Um. The the other thing here is
there's a possibility that it was a secret United States
project that crashed in the ground. That is so possible
that could happen today. Let's just go ahead and just
to depict other things that are secret that the United
States could have crashed to the ground somewhere. X thirty
(23:53):
seven B an unmanned spacecraft that just goes out in
space and hangs out for days. But what does it do? Ben?
You know? That is such a great it is such
a great question. Uh, Matt's Matt is buzzing my chops
a little bit because I went through a period where
I would come up to your desk pretty much every day,
(24:14):
and even though it was clear that neither of us
knew what the X thirty seven B was doing, I
would kind of harass both of us. I mean, it
was fun, it was a trouble shooting something that is
impossible to solve. But what what does it? Anyway, that's
the story for a different show, and hopefully that news
will come out soon. So there's another possibility that I
(24:39):
read about on a more more skeptical sided site, which
well we'll talk about the end. That just says, note
this Hecksburg incident, this was all the confusion. Nothing landed.
There was a Great Lakes fireball at the same time.
And then due to the problems of perception that humans
have on the ground looking the sky, that people thought
(25:01):
it was closer than it was, it wasn't actually anything there.
I don't know if I don't know how how much
I believe that because of some later statements. So let's
go to the modern day where we meet a sharp
(25:22):
journalist from New York City named Leslie Keene. Leslie Keene
filed an f o I, a Freedom of Information Act
requests with NASA, and she ended up in a lawsuit
against NASA. And this was with the Sci Fi Channel.
So let's be clear about this. She had a she
had a big supporting patron behind her that enabled this
(25:43):
kind of uh David against Goliath thing. Uh. In December
two thousand five, NASA said that they examined metallic fragments
from this object and claimed that it was a Russian satellite,
that it really was a Russian satellite. The NASA spokesman
said that, by the way, we lost the records of this. Yeah,
(26:06):
we just can't find them. Yeah, yeah, we can't and
if they if they said, if this was true, then
you know, they said they lost it in the ninety nineties.
Uh And in their in their statement they say that
what they can't track UFOs, So what they did was
(26:27):
to take a look at whatever did fall and give
their expert opinion, their best guess. Right, um, but the like,
we don't know how much that bears out because as
part of this work on the sci Fi show, uh
Leslie Keene had people check the orbital paths of all
known satellites and other records from the period in sixty
(26:48):
and the experts she had checking said that it was
absolutely impossible for any part of the Cosmos Venus probe
to have accounted for either the fireball or any object
at Kattsburg. And these experts said, furthermore, there were no
other man made satellites or other objects that re entered
the atmosphere that day, well according to the official records,
(27:13):
right yeah. And then speaking of records, they note people
have noted, you know the same thing, you and I
are not being here, Like, how questionable is it that
NASA could lose records? I think, you know, I think
that if it really is a Russian satellite in the
mid in the middle of the Cold War, a Russian
(27:36):
satellite fell to the United States, right, and now we're
decades and decades away from this event. It's strange that.
I mean, Okay, Matt, I will say, maybe the records
were honestly lost, but if they were purposely lost, if
they were destroyed, Uh, what prevents NASA from saying, yeah,
(27:57):
we destroyed them, Like what what prevents that from coming
to light? Is their statute of limitations? Is it something
that still impacts national security? Yeah? And what happens what
are the consequences of, oh, man, we misplaced some documents.
Are there any consequences? I I can't imagine that there
would be any, because you know, it was a clerical
(28:18):
error or this happened. Yeah, that's a that's a good question,
and it it may well be that more information emerges
about this and solidifies what what we do know or
what witnesses are saying. But now it's time for us
to follow up on some of our earlier mentioned players.
What happened to John Murphy, Well, apparently he never spoke
(28:42):
about whatever conversation that he had with the men in
suits let's call them, um like he he just never
even talked about it to anybody that that we have
record of. After the airing of the heavily censored documentary
that he made, yeah, a few a few years after,
right nineteen exactly, he went on to vacation. He went
(29:05):
to Ventura, California, and unfortunately, when he was out there,
he was killed in a hit and run accident. And
after his death, his wife, who we mentioned earlier, Bonnie Murphy,
said that her husband really did have photos of an object,
but that they were confiscated these photos. She's saying something
(29:28):
really did land. The state police confiscated it, and he
was threatened with grave consequences, grave enough and believable enough
at least that he was silenced on this for life.
That's very intense. I can imagine, as someone with the
family that if someone threatened my family, then you would
(29:51):
I would have to think very long and hard about
my you know, my moral high ground or my instincts
to want to go at for the truth for something
like this. That's scary to me. Well, it's it's a situation,
you know, if if that kind of stuff occurs, When
that stuff kind of occurs, we know it's a situation
(30:13):
that is not unique that really has happened in the past,
um and not necessarily you know, with one one particular
country or one particular government or administration. Uh, this stuff
is happening today to journalists across the world from myriad reasons.
Don't report on corruption in uh was Venezuela yet And
(30:37):
they're they're different, There are different things. Being a journalist
is a is a very risky and stressful lifestyle, I understand.
But we do have some further reading. We've only been
able to look at I guess a little bit beneath
the surface of Cacksburg, and we want to hear from you.
Do you think this is a meteorite? Do you think
(30:58):
this is four in technology? And if so, how foreign?
USSR China non terrestrial? So let's go towards just to
end on some uh some further reading here. I'll start
with just the skeptical thing. We mentioned that some of
the skeptical sides had claimed this, uh, this event and
(31:22):
Kexburg was confused with the Great Lakes fireball, And that's
from a site called debunker dot com and they say
that the Kexburg crash itself is sensationalism and They have
some great sources if you want to check this out.
One of them they cited an issue of Sky and
Telescope magazine, where a professor of geophysics and geology named GW.
(31:46):
Weather Hill says the following the fireball was observed by
many people in Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and to a
lesser extent in the neighboring states. In newspaper accounts, a
great many suppose as impact sites were reported both in
southwestern Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. Fragments were claimed to have
(32:07):
fallen in Ohio and Michigan. These imagined happenings arose from
the impossibility of estimating the distance of an object in
the sky. Almost everyone who saw the fireball thought it
was much closer than it really was. When it disappeared
behind a house or a tree, many people thought it
had fallen only a few hundred yards beyond. And that's
(32:31):
that's a really important thing, because the weather Hill is
bringing up two concepts here. The first, we know it's true,
it is credibly difficult, maybe impossible, with the naked eye
to estimate the distance of an object in the sky. Uh. Secondly,
you know some people thought it was much closer and
really was. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, he's seeing nowhere
(32:54):
numerous possible crash sites from debris right, so not one Cacksburg,
but none who knows how many. Um this this is interesting,
but you know, of course, we want to present that
side of the argument and see what you think about it.
If you want to get some in depth information on
something that explores Kecksburg in um more of a conspiratorial
(33:18):
side of the story and goes into much more depth
than the mainstream TV shows, then do check out the
work of stand Gordon if you if you look at
some of his stuff, which you can find available online,
we would love to hear your views. Tell us what
you think happened on the afternoon of December nine in Kesburg, Pennsylvania,
(33:41):
or what didn't happen. So find us on Twitter, guys,
find us on Facebook. We are at conspiracy stuff on
both of those. Uh, you can go to our website
stuff they don't want you to know dot com. We've
got all of our audio podcasts like this there. Hopefully
you're listening to this on there if you are, Thanks,
dude or lady. Oh, before we go, Ben, one more thing,
(34:03):
we wanted to address Oh yes, we wanted to thank
everybody who checked out our one of our recent audio
podcast on race and policing in the United States specifically,
and we received some great feedback on this, both in
terms of constructive criticism and in terms of valid pointers
(34:25):
for where to head next. One of the best points,
at least in my opinion, was that we were talking
about arrest rates and incarceration rates, but we weren't talking
about the rates of the crimes that were committed, uh,
in in the same way. So we heard this and
we would like to explore this. Uh, we're gonna look
(34:45):
at crime. We have some stuff that touches on it. Earlier,
you know, we've talked about militarization of police. We've talked
about the gradualization. Yeah, and we've also explored I don't
know if we've done it in this show, but some
others shows we've explored some of the problems of having
a bigger society and whether people are hardwired to only
(35:07):
be able to consider a couple of a smaller number
of people human beings. It's called the Dunbarns number. Was
that brain stuff? I think that was an episode you
did of brain Stuff. It was on brain Stuff. We
should also check it out there. We're going to head out.
There is another thing that we'd like to cover in
more depth later. I don't know when we'll get to it,
but that is the Brazilian version of Operation Blue Book.
(35:31):
We hope you stay tuned for that, and we hope
you check out our video coming up later on this
week is your Government building UFOs. And that's the end
of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or
questions about this episode, you can get into contact with
us in a number of different ways. One of the
best is to give us a call. Our number is
(35:52):
one eight three three st d w y t K.
If you don't want to do that, you can send
us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at
i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you
to know is a production of I heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(36:13):
favorite shows.
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.