January 4, 2022 • 55 mins
When US forces finally tracked down terrorist leader Osama Bin Laden -- living in Pakistan, likely with support of the ISI -- he was killed and, according to the official story, buried at sea. So why doesn't everyone believe this is true? When did Osama Bin Laden actually die?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So let's paint a picture for you, fellow conspiracy realist.
It's September. Your pals Matt and Ben are finally addressing
a question that I think personally bothered both of them
at this time. Osama bin Laden by this point was dead.
(00:21):
But when did he die? Well? He died ten years
after the nine eleven attacks. Two one, and uh where
where was his body? What happened to his body? I
was buried at sea? Huh yeah, right, yeah. I feel
like we need more information here. Um. I feel like
(00:44):
it's not a hot take to say that many people
even today don't agree with the official narrative. So in
this classic episode, we are looking at the official story,
and then we're looking at some of the allegations that
there be maybe more to the tail from UFOs two,
(01:05):
ghosts and government cover ups. History is riddled with unexplained events.
You can turn back now or learn the stuff they
don't want you to now. Hello, welcome back to the show.
My name is Matt and I'm Ben, And as always
we are joined by our super producer Noll, the politico Brown.
(01:27):
Uh no in I hope is he is doing well?
I think he's doing He's got a nod. He's got
a nod. So that's a positive nod or a bit
of a shrug. As you know, our nicknames or our
super producer are often hints or allusions to the nature
of the episode. I guess for anyone who doesn't read
(01:50):
the title who says, I just want to plunge in, uh,
just playing this episode. I'm just playing this episode, jumping
into the great beyond the podcasting world. Uh, this is
an episode that is heavily political. We're not really taking
any sides other than to say that I think we
(02:11):
can all agree it is not good to kill people.
That's a fairly basic, basic assumption that we're gonna agree
with you that, regardless of someone's self described political leaning
or identification, they can agree with. So, Matt, with that disclaimer,
what are we talking about today. We are talking about
(02:34):
kind of the the guy that was held up as
the boogeyman when I was going through high school and
college up until around two thousand eleven. Right, yeah, and
I appreciate your use of the phrase boogeyman. We are
talking about Osama bin Laden and Osama related conspiracies, or
(02:55):
should I say Laden related conspiracies. So this figure is
shrouded in mystery and opprobrium and controversy even today, as
our as our audience knows, both inside and outside of
the States, this is the anniversary or the week anniversary
(03:20):
of the September eleventh attacks. And just for refresher, what
are those? That is when the World Trade Center in
New York City as well as the Pentagon in Washington,
d C. Were attacked and another plane went down in
Pennsylvania right as spot on. So originally and often we
(03:44):
have heard that Osama bin Laden was involved with these
attacks to one degree or another or associated with them.
Very quickly after it occurred. There were people on the
news mentioning this man's name very quickly, and and it
(04:05):
was thought to be terrorism. If you watch go back
and watch the tapes, and you know, there are specials
on every year now that go back through all of
the footage that occurred, and there are people speculating about
terrorism almost immediately after it occurred, not not even on
the news, just people on the street right. And there
are also, of course, as you've noticed, with any large
(04:27):
catastrophic event in US history, from the attack on Pearl
Harbor to the assassination JFK or MLK to this event.
There are numerous people and groups who disagree with the
official version of events from the day the from the
(04:49):
day the planes hit to two thousand eleven when Ben
Laden passes away. And there are also a lot of
people who are probably angry that even talking about this
right now, um, because we're going to be discussing some
of the more fringe ideas. But the thing that Ben
and I want you to know is that we are
(05:09):
looking at facts that we that can be proven, and
then also telling you what people believe. And then I,
like the show does every week, we just want you
to think about it and come up with your own
belief structure around this. And and I'm sorry, I'm gonna
go ahead and do this because of course we are
doing this uh live well live for us record when
(05:31):
you hear it. But I want to do this one
more time. Uh picking up at the end where I
said leading up to Osama bin Ladden, leading up to
two thousand eleven when Osama bin Laden died or did
he did he? Did? He did he? Uh? So that's
that's a hint to some of the stuff coming up.
So first we have to start at the beginning. Who
(05:54):
is Osama bin Laden, because for such a well known name,
a lot of people don't know very much about him
other than as you said, Matt, he was a boogeyman
from people growing up. Yes, so the man we know
as Osama bin Laden, who was known in the west
at least in that way, is actually Osama bin Mohammed
bin Awad bin Laden. He was born on March tenth,
(06:16):
nineteen fifty seven, in Riyada, Saudi Arabia. His mother was Syrian,
his father, Mohammed Awad bin Laden, was from South Yemen.
Uh Osama bin Laden was the seventh son of fifty
brothers and sisters, all told big family huge. The father
(06:37):
is a success story. Started impoverished, worked his way up
to become the owner of the largest construction company in
Saudi Arabia, and during this time his father became very
closely the royal family due to his involvement in palace
construction another you know, royalty related buildings, and I can
see how that would make them buddy buddy in that regard.
(06:59):
Um and Osama bin Laden grew up in a strictly
religious environment. He went to school in Jadah and according
to some official sources, he only traveled to a couple
of countries around the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan.
And that's according to these sources, for his entire life,
that's where he existed. So the reason that we mentioned
(07:22):
that is that you will often hear stories that he
secretly went to Switzerland one reason or another, or that
he secretly traveled to another country, maybe in the West,
maybe he went to you know, you'll you'll hear wild stuff,
or at least maybe a more fair way to say
it is unsubstantiated stuff. He adopted the beliefs and precepts
(07:43):
of the month Muslim Brotherhood during his time in school,
and you probably heard of the Muslim Brotherhood in different
news reports about events in the Middle East. Yet at
this time he was not involved in violent or terrorists
like activities. So to see what cha anged, we will
consult an excellent timeline provided to us by the good
(08:06):
folks at Frontline as well as some others, which means,
of course, this is a timeline of official events or
at least proven events. Cast your memory back December twenty six,
nineteen seventy nine, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, a boiling
point in the proxy war there between Russia and the West.
(08:27):
Ben Laden leaves his home in Saudi Arabia to join
the Afghan resistance, the Mujadin. Yeah, and he's about I
think twenty two at this time, so you know, twenty
two year old. You can imagine I guess those our
college age years for us in the West at least.
Um he's going out and joining a resistance movement. Now
(08:49):
we get to nineteen. This is when bin Lan officially
established al Qaeda. This is you've you've heard of them
many many times. They're an organization of X Mujahadeen and
other supporters, so the people who were fighting in Afghanistan,
right and during that interim s eight he did become
(09:11):
a successful fighter, working his way up from a resistance
fighter to a guerrilla commander. So when he establishes al Qaeda,
he was also successful at raising funding, which will we'll
talk about as well. Uh this, let's let's go through
just a few of the events that he was tied to.
(09:32):
Um okay, so real quick. In eighty nine, the Soviets
pull out of Afghanistan, bin Lad comes back to Saudi Arabia.
People love him. He's a hero, but he gets involved
in movements against the monarchy, which you know doesn't doesn't
go over well in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia. He's
(09:52):
kicked out. Uh moves back to Afghanistan then to stand
because at the time Stanna allowed any Muslim into the
country without a visa. And then if we fast forward
a little bit later, Uh, a bomb explodes in a
hotel in Aidan, Yemen. Right, Yeah, this is a place
(10:13):
where the United States troops had been staying. They were
on route to humanitarian humanitarian mission in Somalia. The bomb
killed two Austrian tourists and the U. S soldiers apparently
had already left once once this attack occurred, and there
were two yu many Muslim militants who were apparently trained
in Afghanistan who were injured in the blast as well.
(10:35):
They they're later arrested and US intelligence agencies alleged this
was the first terror attack involving Bin Ladden and his associates. Right,
and as we go through this, we're going to hear
more more statements like attacks involving Ben Laden or he
is associated or linked to it. So in February six,
(10:58):
the World Trades are bombing a hers. Later October of
the same year, eighteen US troops are killed in Mogadishu,
and people are People begin suspecting that bin Laden and
his followers trained and armed the men who killed the troops.
They also believe intelligence analysts over the years become more
(11:22):
and more certain that bin Laden isn't just leading terrorist groups.
He's financing different training camps, training camps in I think Sudan,
Northern Sudan. Now. In April nineteen ninety four, Saudi Arabia
takes note of all this stuff and says, you're getting
out of here. They revoked in law and citizenship and
(11:44):
they make moves to even freeze all of his assets,
at least the ones in Saudi Arabia because of his
support for some of these Muslim fundamentalist groups and uh
so he is establishing through he's establish wishing more training
camps around the Saudi Arabian border. In August of nineteen
(12:06):
he writes a letter. He writes a letter to the
King of Saudi Arabia, and he calls for a campaign
of guerrilla attacks in order to drive US forces out
of the kingdom. And for the next few years, we're
going to skip over some of the developments just a
quick laundry list for Saudi men accused bombing the Saudi
(12:27):
National Guard training center and the capitol are beheaded before
their execution, they claim to have read letters from bin Laden.
President Clinton signs a top secret order that authorizes the
CIA to use any and all means to destroy the
bin Laden network, as this is seen increasingly as a
threat to US forces or US personnel or citizens abroad. Yeah,
(12:53):
they even set up a grand jury, a secret grand
jury investigation into Bin Lawden in August of nine. They
then later in August of that year, nineteen six but
Lawdon signed and issued declaration of Jihad where he he
basically set out the organizational goals of these groups that
he had set up. Um They were to drive US
(13:14):
forces from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula, overthrow the government of
Saudi Arabia, liberate Muslim holy sites, and support Islamic revolutionary
groups around the world. He also in this declares that
Saudi's have the right to strike at u S troops
inside the Persian Gulf. Al right, and uh N US
(13:37):
backed multinational mercenary force allegedly is formed with the aim
abducting and killing Ben Laden. Obviously it does not work.
So then Lawdon does something uh, issuing a joint declaration
with several other groups where they try to form a
(13:58):
world Islamic Front. UH. Then let's go to nineteen. There's
a grand jury investigation of bin Laden, charging him with
the conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the US. And
this is where prosecutors charge that bin Laden heads a
terrorist organization called al Qaeda. UH. And you know, we
(14:20):
can go through some of these dates quick. He does
interviews with ABC Nightline. UH. He later does interviews with
Time UH and a second interview with ABC. And during
this time he is eventually becoming a not maybe not
public enemy number one, but one of the let's say
(14:41):
top fifteen for the US. When the U. S. Attorney's
Office files its most complete indictment of Osama bin Laden
in nineteen at the time, the grand jury charges the
him and eleven other people for conspiring to kill American nationals.
So this is a real thing, a global conspiracy if
(15:04):
you will to UH, to fight against or to assassinate
American nationals or Western nationals, and multiple times been land
states during his public appearances. You could call them that
that the U S. Should not be in the Holy Land. Yeah.
(15:25):
And I noticed something in looking at all of this
been that one of Osama bin Law's main targets was
the government and the the leadership within Saudi Arabia. And
it made me think about our Petro dollar episode and
the deal set up within Saudi Arabia Arabia with the
United States to trade in U S. Dollars. And I
(15:47):
don't know, I was interested to know maybe Osamavan Lawton
is learning about this larger financial set up, global financial
set up as he's you know, in the Mujahadeen and
getting older. I'm interested to know how much that influenced. Well.
You also, many conservative Muslims object to the Saudi Arabian
(16:12):
the Wabbi idea, right uh, and see it as a
means of propping up again political support for the ruling
House of sad Okay And I want to take a
second here before we continue, because we're talking a lot
about terrorist groups that are uh Islamic, right, But the
(16:34):
truth of the matter is that there are numerous terrorist
groups and and they're not all Islamic, something that mainstream
news in the West will try to slip past people,
but it is true. There are Christian terrorist groups, There
are Jewish terrorist groups, there are Hindi terrorist groups. There
(16:55):
are so many groups like that. And with as with
any other religion, the vast majority religious practitioner demographic is
not composed of violent, crazed people, right. It's composed of
people who have a belief system that to some degree
(17:19):
regulates or defines their life for the way they interact
with the world, and that and that's it. And the
Islamophobia that creeps into the West is entirely disingenuous. You're
absolutely right. The extremism is very different and should be
separated from religion. Right, there are two very different things.
(17:40):
The extremist ideas of any group are not necessarily religious
at their core. So with that being said, let's go
to the official story of the death. According to the
official narrative of Osama bin Laden is killed in a
compound on a second two thousand eleven in Abbatbad, Pakistan.
(18:04):
Seal Team six invades the compound. They're doing a project
called Operation Neptune Spear, which was meant to allegedly apprehend
Osama bin Laden. They used stealth helicopters, one of which
Rex And is later taken probably to China for some
(18:25):
reverse engineer accounts different on what happened. You will often
hear that bin Laden resisted or as followers resisted, there
was a firefight and he was killed. But either way,
according to the official story, he was killed in the compound,
(18:45):
and after that they transported his body to Afghanistan for
identification and it turned out that it was him, and
it was also earlier DNA evidence he used to confirm
this before they went in. And they took him to
the U. S. S. Carl Vincent, which which is the
site where they controversially and allegedly gave him a burial.
(19:09):
Let's see adhering to Islamic beliefs. Now, also let me say,
let me interrupt myself to make that correction. I believe
Neptune Spear was a kill or apprehend missions. So that
means if there was no resistance, they would take them alive.
Got you, now, Ben, Here's where it gets crazy. A
(19:31):
lot of people, a lot of people don't believe at
least part of that story. Many people don't believe any
of that story, not even the part where Osama bin
Laden died in two thousand and eleven. The they some
people even think that the entire role of Osama bin
Laden is some kind of story that's meant to be
(19:52):
told and told and re told, but is actually not true. Now,
this is going to be a huge debate depending on
depending on who you talk to, either way it goes.
But here are some of the the big ideas, the
big conspiracies that surround the life of Osama bin Laden.
The first one is that Osama bin Laden was actually
(20:15):
a CIA operative, that that he was you know, when
he was working when he was fighting with the Mujahadeen,
he was actually trained by the CIA to uh start
and lead groups. Right. So um, they believe that Osama
bin Laden and his groups received funding from Saudi Arabia
(20:36):
and the United States, and that al Qaeda is actually
a part of this and is a creation of the CIA. Right.
The primary crux that debate being whether this was a
willful creation or an inadvertence creation, where it says, you know,
let's fight communism by arming the locals and telling them
(20:58):
that they are uh they have the religious motivation or
there somehow spiritually mandated to fight this war against these invaders.
What could possibly go wrong? And let's train this guy
to be a leader like an excellent leader of these
guys to fight back in a resistance movement. And on
(21:18):
CNN you can see a clip from the Larry King
Show where Bandar ben Sultan, one of the diplomats for
Saudi Arabia, says, uh in the mid eighties, if you remember,
we and the United Saudi Arabia and the United States
were supporting the Mushadin to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets.
Osama bin Laden came to thank me for my efforts
(21:41):
to bring the Americans, our friends to help us against
the atheist, he said, the communist. Isn't that ironic? Larry
King says, how ironic? In other words, he came to
thank you for helping bring America to help him. And
what's strange about this? Well, I guess I should say
the opposite of strange, what's completely expected. The Central Intelligence
(22:04):
Agency in the US officials refute this, arguing that they
only supported native Afghanistan Mujadin, so not that not in
any way um bringing foreign fighters in or encouraging them.
And you can read similar statements from other people involved,
including the former head of the I s I Pakistan's
(22:26):
intelligence agency. There's this other idea that Osama bin Laden
worked for the US right up to September eleven. A
person named Sybil Edmonds, who you've heard of before, I'm sure,
said that the U S outsourced terror operations to al
Qaeda and the Taliban for years and years and years.
(22:48):
Uh right, uh. And according to some French sources, CIA
agents met with bin Laden two months before nine eleven,
who was already wanted for the bombing of the USS
coal at that time, and then allegedly two days before
nine eleven, two days he called his step mom and said,
(23:10):
in two days you're going to her big news, and
you're not going to hear from me for a while. So,
in other words, Ben, it seems as though American forces,
the US Department of Defense, and the CIA had several
many opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden, and yet they
failed to do so, or at least they did not
(23:32):
do so they chose not to. Perhaps even even after
nine eleven, the U S military intentionally allowed Ben Lauden
to evade capture. It sounds pretty crazy, right right, And
for people who believe that the Great Game continues, this
sort of intentional encouragement of instability seems completely plausible. However,
(23:56):
of course you have to point out, if we're being fair,
that uh, instability might be useful to a certain point, Uh,
but complete anarchy and chaos is not. So that that's
the big crux of that idea. How involved? If it all,
(24:16):
was Osama bin Laden with v C I A. If so,
what degree of importance did they hold to each other?
And to what degree was the US somehow participating in
this proxy war? Was it just training to local Afghanistan mujerdine,
(24:36):
as the CIA and other officials maintain, or was it
more active? And that's just one. There's there's another. There's
another death related belief, and that's that when people claimed
that bin Laden was assassinated in two thousand and eleven,
it was entirely made up and never happened, and that
(25:00):
Osama bin Laden actually died years before in two thousand
and one. Yes, been some people believe that Osama bin
Lawden actually died ten years prior to his official death
in two thouleven. They think he died in two thousand one.
They think it was either from illness from a long
(25:23):
something going wrong with his lungs or I've heard things
about kidney problems and having to be on dialysis. They
also believe that he may have been killed in an
American bombing. Now, these aren't these aren't I hate to
say it, but fringe sources that are talking about this,
these are these aren't nuts. These are government officials. And
(25:46):
if if they are nuts, spend they are at least
government officials, right. I think that's pretty fair of you
to say. We're talking about people like General Tommy Frank's,
former American military commander for Afghanistan, or former Press sident
of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharev, who, as we mentioned on
the video, you might remember from a strange and awkward
(26:08):
interview on The Daily Show back when John Stewart was
heading a personal hero of yours, Matt uh the you
don't like him, No, I am a big fan, um.
But the officials, uh, the officials that we're talking about,
these generals, they seem to base this speculation, this conclusion
on just the amount of bombing in the Toura Bora Mountains.
(26:31):
So they hadn't actually seen a body or anything, at
least going to the New York Times, and that is right,
ladies and gentlemen, The New York Times reported on this too.
Back in December two thousand and one. Another source of
the Pakistan Observer went on they they quoted a Taliban
leader who said that Assamban Lawdon died of quote a
serious lung complication back in December. Yeah, and they also
(26:55):
that Pakistan Observer article adds more information and alleged funeral.
And of course, uh, it seems like it's my role
in this episode too. Not my favorite role, but it's
got to be done. Uh, it's my role in this
episode to point out the other sides of the story.
This is very close to wartime propaganda. So some people
(27:18):
have doubted this, thinking that I s I. Pakistan's intelligence
agency supplied purposely misleading information with the idea of throwing
the US war. When I say war machine, I don't
mean anything other than an enormous and efficient thing. Some
people believe that I s I. Pakistan's intelligence agency purposefully misled, uh,
(27:44):
misled the public, with the idea being that if the
US forces could be convinced that Osama bin Lanham was dead,
they might be thrown off ben Laden's trail. And so
people who believe this, I to you, I mean, because
this is a lot to think about if someone dies
(28:04):
in two thousand and one, then how could you even
assuming you could pull it off by by doing some
massive conspiracy and cover up for a decade. Why would
you do that? Why would you go to all that trouble.
That is a tough question to answer, Ben, but it
might go back to the idea that we said at
the top of a boogeyman. I can see it being
(28:27):
beneficial on either side. So from from Pakistan side, wanting,
you know, wanting to have this this at least he's
a kind of a leader, an asset for intelligence and
for strategy. Having this person at least believed to be
dead and then using him on the inside, I can
see that being advantageous. Inversely, I can see it being
(28:49):
advantageous to want to make people believe that he is
still alive, because it creates the specter of the evil
that you're fighting in all of these places. Right at least,
it's good for morale for your troops, it's good for
even the people inside your country or other people that
you're trying to inspire to fight these wars for you,
(29:10):
I can imagine it being highly advantageous either way. I
see what you're saying, yeah, people who believe this theory
that in Loton died in two thousand one typically ascribe
the motivation to things like that. You know that it
might be for political maneuvering, like the hostage crisis in Iran,
that it might be due to uh an economically driven
(29:30):
desire for war to continue because some people do make
a lot of money off of it. Although that's a
that seems a little bit far fetched for me, not
that there would be people who would want work to
continue so much as that there would need to be
one person upon whom that decision hinges. I think it's
very easy to create a situation wherein a war is
(29:55):
quote unquote necessary. Um, I'm sure. I think it's just
helpful to have an iconic image or name or something
that can be repeated over and over again. Sure. Yeah,
that begins to serve as sort of an autonomy. Right.
So there's also a the idea of uncertainty. You wouldn't
want to report that someone was dead if you didn't
(30:17):
really think they were dead, because what a coup that
is to come back from the dead and the public eye.
So it could just be that people didn't know for sure.
It could be you know that that there was an
advantage politically speaking for the timeline. So that's that's what
(30:37):
people who believe he died in two thousand one. I
actually believe. And I think that Benezier Bhutto may have
made some public statements about that too before her assassination. Yes,
I would if I were you and you have not
seen this, I would look up Benezier Bhutto Osama bin
Laden I think maybe died two thousand one. Where she
(30:58):
is conducting or she is being interviewed and she says
she states, at least according to the video, that Osama
bin Lan died in two thousand one. But is she
just referring to this information that was coming out of Pakistan?
You know? I mean there are a lot of questions
and you will read, you can read multiple sources that
will go either way. Um, and it's tough to figure
(31:21):
out what's true. They're like, what is she actually referring to?
And we'd love to hear what you think on this listeners,
So if if you're hearing something, whether on this point
or any of the earlier points or later stuff we
talked about, and you'd like to weigh in, uh, we'd
love to hear your perspective. Of course, if you are
(31:41):
a member of a military force, whether in the US
and Pakistan somewhere else, Uh, we'd like to hear perspective.
We believe it is invaluable. And if you are not
in the military, of course, we still want to hear
from you and hear what you have found in the
course of or delved into this rabbit hole. And speaking
(32:03):
of rabbit holes, we have come to probably the most
widely reported in the mainstream media disagreement with the official narrative,
and it starts with a guy named Seymour Hirsh, legendary
journalist Seymour Hirsh. Now you might remember this, gentleman. I'm
sure you probably saw the actual article pop up on Reddit.
(32:25):
That's how I first came across it. Um. He's a
guy who wrote about the Myli massacre and the cover
up in Vietnam. He also wrote about the Abo Grabe
prisoner abuse. Um, there was an article that blew up
all over London review of books. He's well known, a
very well known and I would say in maybe prestigious writer.
(32:48):
He's somebody who was held up. Seymour Hirsh. I believe
is somebody who was held up as being an authority
in a lot of places. Well, he's gone through a
cycle of being derided and then lauded after you know,
enough time passes. He says that the raid did happen
that night on May second, two thousand and eleven. It
just didn't go down the way people think. The US
(33:12):
official position is that the I, S I and the
top grass in Pentagon had no idea, somehow had no
idea that Osama bin Laden was living in that compound
all along. They did what they just they've met got,
which is um very similar to very similar to Hitler
(33:33):
surviving World War Two and then Parliament finding out that
he had a flat somewhere in London. So this is
what Hersch says happens happened. He said a walk in
asset alerted the CIA. A walk in asset. It is
a very difficult proposition for the CIA because walkin asset
(33:56):
could easily be a double agent or someone who is
sincere but was misled. And we're literally saying a walk
in asset this is this is a person who walks
into an official place and says, hey, I have information
I want to share with you, right walks into the
embassy and says, I want to talk with someone, and
(34:18):
all of a sudden, you're learning a lot more about
that consular attache or the person who's the head of
janitorial services turns out to have a couple of extra
job duties of which were not aware. So after this
asset alerts the CIA and they managed to verify the information.
Herst says that the Pakistani and American government struck a
(34:41):
deal and that they would stage this raid. So the
Pakistan was going to give up, give up in Laden,
and they were going to make it seem as though
it were unilateral action on the part of the US.
One thing I just really quickly want to go back to.
I was interested in the reasons if this were true.
(35:03):
Why in the heck would Pakistan, if they knew that
he was there, to keep him there. And what what
I seem to find is that it was some kind
of like, hey, we've got Osama bin lawden U jihadist
groups or the groups that want to, you know, overthrow
governments and create havoc. We've got this guy, We're protecting him.
(35:25):
You don't have to you know, it's okay, you don't
have to hurt us. However, if they were keeping it secret,
they wouldn't be telling anybody that, right, so it would
only be it Osama bin Lawden's connections. I guess to say, hey,
don't attack Pakistan. I don't know. I was just trying
to wrap my head around the reasoning behind it. I mean,
it's a it's a heck of a poker chip. Yeah,
(35:47):
I mean, to be crass about it. It's also it's
also quite possible that at this point in Lawden had
little to know actual control over over the situation. Right,
So a lot of you'll you'll hear people disagree about
the degree of influencer control he had. Was he just
(36:07):
releasing tapes saying continue on, carry on my wayward son,
or was he was he instead, um, you know, actively
plotting things and telling people show up on this day
at this time, meet this guy and plan the attack
from there. And if so, to what degree. The problem
(36:30):
is that a lot of this stuff remains classified. We
can tell you about some things that were allegedly declassified,
which will do in a little bit. Here's one of
the here's the next series of things that hers says
that lead other journalists to attack him and say that
he was a quote unquote conspiracy theorist meaning you know,
(36:53):
meaning as an insult, as a don't pay attention to
this guy when terminating cliche. Right when you think of him,
think of reptilian hybrids or whatever. So uh. He her
says bin Lad was never meant to survive the raid.
He was supposed to be killed, and that he also
(37:14):
been laden, that is, did not receive an Islamic burial
at sea, did not receive a burial at sea at all.
That this was a fabrication. A lot of the body
was riddled with bullets, uh, and some pieces were thrown
out of the helicopter as they flew to Afghanistan, and
one consultant, one anonymous source told Hersch that the CIA
(37:37):
took the body once the remains landed in that country.
And all of this leads us to the the next thing.
This is something that I am very interested in. This
is the This is relating to the audio and visual
evidence of Osama bin Laden speaking into a camera or
(38:00):
being interviewed on camera, or talking into a mic and
giving orders and or um, I guess just rallying the troops. Um.
There was a lot of media that was created over
the years by Osama bin Laden or allegedly by Osama
bin in Laden, because a lot of people believe that
(38:23):
some of the videos that you may remember, some of
the iconic ones, were actually not Osama bin Laden. One
of the true the things that we can definitely point
to as hey, this is this is absolutely fact, is
that they're German experts looked at a bin Laden confession
video from I think it was, was it two thousand
one or two thousand two, think it's two thousand one, um,
(38:47):
where they were saying that the video was itself incorrectly translated. Um.
They're not disputing that it was actually Osama bin Laden,
but they were saying that it was perhaps purposefully uh
not translated correctly. So in that case, they're saying that
it was him, Uh it was. The video is one
(39:08):
where he's in a circle of followers. People had called
it a quote unquote damning admission of guilt. But according
to uh, according to the German experts, they're the tapes
tampered with contains translation errors and this is this is
the one that is supposedly him saying yes, nine eleven,
(39:29):
we did nine eleven. Basically, the the the the errors
that they're mentioning. You can read about in more detail
if you just search for German experts. I think it
came under Spiegel German experts Sabin Laden confession incorrectly translated,
(39:50):
and you'll find it and you can find the discussion
about it. Um. I would say, if you want to
play a dangerous game and you do not uh, do
not yourself speak German, you can all always put your
faith in Google Translate and the best. So there's another
guy named Neil from Actor Factor who believes that a different,
(40:13):
uh different tape of Osama bin Laden was manufactured from
various earlier audio visual appearances. And the person who says
that this was such a compilation is a fellow named
Neil Crowit's a digital image forensics expert. He looked at
(40:33):
the tape from September seven, two thousand seven, and said
it was full of visual and audio splices, not just
that but low quality and it was a likely fake.
And then there's also a I think it's a two
thousand two audio tape that was attributed allegedly to beIN
lawden Um. There's some there's groups with scientists there that
(40:55):
we're saying this is fake it's not actually Osama bin Lawden.
And there's a Guardian article that you can read. Um,
you might be able to search two to al Qaeda
a tape perhaps or if you would be able to
find it. Yeah, and we can tell you a little
bit about it. So there is a thing called the
Institute of Linguistics and Phonetics in Paris and UH they
(41:21):
found that based on the phonetic testing, the Al Jazeera
tape was genuine. This this tape was delivered to Al
Jazeera in two thousand two, is Matt said. American experts
also thought it was been laden, but the quality of
the tape is pretty poor, so people aren't completely sure.
(41:43):
But researchers at a place called the dal Mole Institute
for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence believe the message was recorded by
someone else. They built a computer model of Osama bin
Laden's voice, and they based it on an hour of
actual recordings and then using voice recognition systems that they
(42:04):
were that were being developed for banking security. These Swiss
scientists tested that uh synthetic model or that creative model
against twenty known recordings of the actual bin Laden system
correctly identified as voice. In nineteen of them, and that
means there's a five percent risk of error in their
(42:27):
conclusion that the latest tape was a fake. Mm hmm,
so it You know, it's a little different too, because
it's not a bunch of people listening to it and
then mapping out something. It picks up things that the
human or the human ear probably doesn't record. Now Here
is the really weird thing, you guys, because they're they're
(42:47):
all kinds of theories out there about videos that were
solid Latin impersonators. Oh. Man, You'll hear people writing online
or just see people writing online. Man. Oh, someone in
lot looks really different in two thousands seven than he
did in two thousand one or two thousand six, or
even you know the latest later later videos. Um that
his appearance seems to change drastically over all of these videos. Um. Well,
(43:11):
here's the thing. The CIA actually did. Uh. At least
they had the idea to create a propaganda video of
Osama bin Laden um And according to Jeff Stein, they
actually did create it. Um, at least according to the
people that he spoke to, a propaganda video. Correct. Yes,
I'm just gonna go to the article that Jeff Stein
(43:34):
wrote for It's a blog called Spy Talk that he
wrote for um Washington Post. He's speaking. It's called CIA
units wacky idea depict Saddam as gay. This was written
in two thousand ten, in May specifically, and he's talking
about the Iraq Operations Group and they were kicking around
(43:56):
ideas to like ways to discredit Saddam Hussein, to produce
videos that would make Sam look really bad. Uh. They
would be grainy looking videos, perhaps taken from a cell
phone or from just a really low quality camera that
would not actually be set on doing compromising things like
making They were talking about making a sex tape, possibly
(44:16):
with a teenage boy, um, and then flooding a rock
with the videos. They also talked about making a fake
television program with fake news bulletins talking about how Sam
Mussein was going to step down and he was going
to have his son come into power. UM. So then
about halfway down the article he talks about how the agency.
(44:40):
I guess he's referring to the CIA here. Uh. They
did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden
and his cronies sitting around the campfire, swinging bottles of
liquor and savoring their conquests with boys. One of the
former CIA officers are called chuckling at the memory. Uh,
that's a that's a little strange to me that they
(45:00):
even had that idea, although I can see I can
see why that would be maybe a strategic move. It
doesn't require any guns right at that point, It doesn't
require any assets going in. It just you'd make some
videos and then send them around. I think of a
lot of people wouldn't believe that though, primarily for the
(45:21):
consumption of alcohol. Yeah, you're not supposed to do that, right,
And there's no judgment in brainstorming, So I'm sure this
idea is just the tip of the propaganda iceberg that
we are hearing about. There's one other conspiracy that we
should mention about Osama bin Laden that a lot of
people in the West might not have heard. But it's
(45:42):
it's fairly it has been fairly popular in the past
in some other countries, and that is the idea that
Osama bin Laden, like Elvis Tupac, Kurt Cobain or Jim Morrison,
is somewhere somehow. Oh, Michael Jackson as well. I'll live
and just hasn't been apprehended, will return to fight another day. Uh,
(46:06):
this this theory for you know, for a lot of people,
seems like, well, how how plausible is it? Why would he?
Why would someone do all this stuff and then disappear
right to what end? And it doesn't seem like bin
Laden would be the kind of person who would just
(46:29):
disappear without continuing some sort of fight. But I feel
like it's important for us to note that. And with that,
those are some of the more once the where we're
using the video Matt persistent conspiracy theories regarding Osama bin Laden,
(46:49):
both as the career and terrorism, as well as his
death at the hands of Seal Team six or in
two thousand one and from bombing by US forces, from
Marfan syndrome, from lung complications, et cetera. And I would
love to hear from someone who knows more or has
(47:12):
some has some proof, or has something entirely different. But wait,
speaking hearing, do you do you hear? That's it? Just?
Am I having a stroke? Or is it? I'm pretty
sure it's a stroke? The nope, there it is. Well
that can leave one thing. Where are you sure you're
(47:33):
not having a stroke? Oh? Do you know? Maybe is
this my new death experience? Talking to you right now,
you've got a little twitching on that. Either worried about you.
It's been a rough week. I'm worried about me too.
Then who are you talking to? What's that? I didn't
say anything? Oh god, I smell toast. I smell bitter almonds.
(47:56):
All right, Well, I'm not having a stroke, Matt. You're
not null. You're good. I'm having some kind of event,
but I don't know if it's a stroke. All right,
you want to soldier through, so so you know it's
up to you. Do you want to? You want to
talk about this episode you get something different on your mind.
You know, I've always got things floating around, man. But
(48:16):
if you if you want to, you want to keep
this going, feel free. I kind of want to know
just what's on your mind. My exploded car largely, Uh,
that's you know, a little personal for the podcast. Probably No, no, no,
well we should we should say it wasn't when we
say explosion, it wasn't a car bomb. It was not
a nor bomb. No, it was just it's time to die.
(48:39):
Is it official? Now? It's official. It's very official. YEA
dead cart, a dead car. Well, it's cool. Let's look
to the future. Let's do what what are you planning
on doing for transportation? Um, well, in the short term,
I have a very dear friend who has an extra car.
You let me use so I don't have to make
a snap decision and you know, buy something random just
(48:59):
to have have something. So that's good. So I'm feeling
pretty good about that. But just you know, in general,
it's just a little bit of a downer, surman. I
liked that car a lot, and I was only in
it a couple of times. Yeah, that you know of,
Oh god, sorry, it's seen. It's time in the sun.
Oh man. I feel like there there should be a
(49:22):
good night, sweet Prince goodbye to a car song we
could play I don't know, motoring. Yeah, sure, so well,
we do have another up like uplifting event we could
talk about nat UMNTT got a lot of email and
tweets about the earlier announcement from last week. Yeah. There
(49:46):
there is several really lovely emails that we've received so far. Um,
it does feel weird that you're reading them to Ben.
I forget something like, oh man, Ben's having to read
this advice about my kid. I'm sorry, dude. Oh no,
it totally makes sense. I don't feel like it's my
place to respond. Oh, no, you're you should not respond
(50:06):
to Diana and I are actually going to go through
and respond to them in our adventures for the next
couple of weeks and in your own time, because there
are there are a couple that are fantastic, like, so
much more information than I could have ever asked for,
helpful information. Catch people up on what what you asked
for last last weeks in case they don't know. Well.
(50:29):
I was basically like, Hey, there's a baby coming, I'm scared.
Help that's what That's what I said. And I we
got some messages from people who you know, have had
experience with children, and some of the best stuff was
just how to how to cope with your relationship, Like,
you're my relationship with my wife while we are trying
(50:51):
to take care of this baby and we're both terrified
and stressed out and lacking sleep. No, you have a
kid as well. Did you give any advice to Matt?
We have talks, you know, and I don't tweet them
at him or send them to him via email, but
you know, we occasionally run into each other in the
hall and have a little moments where we talk about
child wearing stuff. How old your daughter? She's six six,
(51:14):
a good age. I feel like kids when they're when
before they get to the double digits, there's this age
where you and I have talked about this off air.
There's this age where they just seem so much more
intelligent than adults. I thought you were going to save
and they actually are. No, you could say that about
some adults, perhaps myself included, So I don't feel bad
(51:34):
saying that. Yeah, my kids creepy smart. She's like the
girl in the Bad Seed. You know, I'm afraid she's
gonna push me down the stairs, and I'm not looking
at I'm kidding. She's she's really smart now. She is.
She is, but again that there's always something going on
in there, and I'm always not I'm not always a
hundred percent aware of what it is, so I have
to bring something up. Really fascist we're talking about kids.
So I I went to Kroger the other day. I
(51:54):
think already told you about this, but I'm sorry. I
went to Kroger the other day to get some food.
We're stalking up frozen things so that we can just
make them really easily. When we're both having downtime, and
when I was being checked out, it was a twenty
year old woman who was actually checking me out in
an eighteen year old woman who was doing the bagging,
and they were having when I walked up, they were
(52:16):
having a long conversation about kids these days. Uh, they're
always on their cell phones. They got no respect. I
mean it was it was a crazy conversation for very
young people to be having, and specifically they were discussing
these kids. I mean no, they said, oh, man, I
didn't get my cell phone until I was in middle school.
(52:37):
And I just went, oh, wow, Yeah, I don't think
it was that like I was gonna guys, I just couldn't.
I just it was so funny to me to hear
that happening already, And I was trying to imagine what
your daughter and my son are gonna be. Like. Yeah,
it's weird with her because I mean, she's really good
(52:57):
at operating those devices. I don't let her mess with
them like all the time, but she likes to play Minecraft,
and I have Minecraft on my phone, so I let
her mess with that. But um, and she'll occasionally I'll
text her mom and I'll get a text back. That's
clearly her. Yea, so she gets it. But you know,
she's not her own phone or anything obviously, but she
knows how to work that stuff. She knows how to
(53:18):
send pictures, she knows, she knows how to take selfies.
There was one time where she changed my Facebook profile
pictures secretly to a picture of her, Like I said,
creep creepy, smart, you gotta nip this in the butt.
That that's pretty, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, And I guess
if we, if we had to speculate, there are a
few things that we could think children in the future
(53:41):
would look back on as ridiculous or I can't believe
they did that kind of antiquated things. And one of
the biggest, in my opinion, might be having to use
your hands to interface with electronics. Yeah, interface anything with
your manually. That seems like, why would you do that?
Remember that seeing him back to the future to or
Marty mcflies using the shoot him Up arcade game and
(54:04):
the kids go, you have to use your hands? Yeah,
I ever understood that joke when I was younger, and
then like now, it's just so obvious. We're all going
to have implants. It's on the way guys, Yeah, you
can get Google in your head for free as long
as you listen to the advertisements that play in your
mind like you're hearing voices. You just have to think
(54:27):
that you agree to the contract. You don't actually have
to sign anything. You just go yep, just just the
sub vocalize no. Uh, well, that sounds like an episode
for another day again. We would I would love to
hear from everybody with your opinions on the death of
Osama bin Lan. Do you believe the official narrative? Do
(54:51):
you think something else happened? And if so what? You
can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter.
You can check out the earlier episodes we allud to
two on our website as well as our YouTube channel.
And and that's the end of this classic episode. If
you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you
(55:12):
can get into contact with us in a number of
different ways. One of the best is to give us
a call. Our number is one eight three three st
d w y t K. If you don't want to
do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at I Heart radio dot com. Stuff
they Don't want you to Know is a production of
i heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
(55:34):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
So let's paint a picture for you, fellow conspiracy realist.
It's September. Your pals Matt and Ben are finally addressing
a question that I think personally bothered both of them
at this time. Osama bin Laden by this point was dead.
(00:21):
But when did he die? Well? He died ten years
after the nine eleven attacks. Two one, and uh where
where was his body? What happened to his body? I
was buried at sea? Huh yeah, right, yeah. I feel
like we need more information here. Um. I feel like
(00:44):
it's not a hot take to say that many people
even today don't agree with the official narrative. So in
this classic episode, we are looking at the official story,
and then we're looking at some of the allegations that
there be maybe more to the tail from UFOs two,
(01:05):
ghosts and government cover ups. History is riddled with unexplained events.
You can turn back now or learn the stuff they
don't want you to now. Hello, welcome back to the show.
My name is Matt and I'm Ben, And as always
we are joined by our super producer Noll, the politico Brown.
(01:27):
Uh no in I hope is he is doing well?
I think he's doing He's got a nod. He's got
a nod. So that's a positive nod or a bit
of a shrug. As you know, our nicknames or our
super producer are often hints or allusions to the nature
of the episode. I guess for anyone who doesn't read
(01:50):
the title who says, I just want to plunge in, uh,
just playing this episode. I'm just playing this episode, jumping
into the great beyond the podcasting world. Uh, this is
an episode that is heavily political. We're not really taking
any sides other than to say that I think we
(02:11):
can all agree it is not good to kill people.
That's a fairly basic, basic assumption that we're gonna agree
with you that, regardless of someone's self described political leaning
or identification, they can agree with. So, Matt, with that disclaimer,
what are we talking about today. We are talking about
(02:34):
kind of the the guy that was held up as
the boogeyman when I was going through high school and
college up until around two thousand eleven. Right, yeah, and
I appreciate your use of the phrase boogeyman. We are
talking about Osama bin Laden and Osama related conspiracies, or
(02:55):
should I say Laden related conspiracies. So this figure is
shrouded in mystery and opprobrium and controversy even today, as
our as our audience knows, both inside and outside of
the States, this is the anniversary or the week anniversary
(03:20):
of the September eleventh attacks. And just for refresher, what
are those? That is when the World Trade Center in
New York City as well as the Pentagon in Washington,
d C. Were attacked and another plane went down in
Pennsylvania right as spot on. So originally and often we
(03:44):
have heard that Osama bin Laden was involved with these
attacks to one degree or another or associated with them.
Very quickly after it occurred. There were people on the
news mentioning this man's name very quickly, and and it
(04:05):
was thought to be terrorism. If you watch go back
and watch the tapes, and you know, there are specials
on every year now that go back through all of
the footage that occurred, and there are people speculating about
terrorism almost immediately after it occurred, not not even on
the news, just people on the street right. And there
are also, of course, as you've noticed, with any large
(04:27):
catastrophic event in US history, from the attack on Pearl
Harbor to the assassination JFK or MLK to this event.
There are numerous people and groups who disagree with the
official version of events from the day the from the
(04:49):
day the planes hit to two thousand eleven when Ben
Laden passes away. And there are also a lot of
people who are probably angry that even talking about this
right now, um, because we're going to be discussing some
of the more fringe ideas. But the thing that Ben
and I want you to know is that we are
(05:09):
looking at facts that we that can be proven, and
then also telling you what people believe. And then I,
like the show does every week, we just want you
to think about it and come up with your own
belief structure around this. And and I'm sorry, I'm gonna
go ahead and do this because of course we are
doing this uh live well live for us record when
(05:31):
you hear it. But I want to do this one
more time. Uh picking up at the end where I
said leading up to Osama bin Ladden, leading up to
two thousand eleven when Osama bin Laden died or did
he did he? Did? He did he? Uh? So that's
that's a hint to some of the stuff coming up.
So first we have to start at the beginning. Who
(05:54):
is Osama bin Laden, because for such a well known name,
a lot of people don't know very much about him
other than as you said, Matt, he was a boogeyman
from people growing up. Yes, so the man we know
as Osama bin Laden, who was known in the west
at least in that way, is actually Osama bin Mohammed
bin Awad bin Laden. He was born on March tenth,
(06:16):
nineteen fifty seven, in Riyada, Saudi Arabia. His mother was Syrian,
his father, Mohammed Awad bin Laden, was from South Yemen.
Uh Osama bin Laden was the seventh son of fifty
brothers and sisters, all told big family huge. The father
(06:37):
is a success story. Started impoverished, worked his way up
to become the owner of the largest construction company in
Saudi Arabia, and during this time his father became very
closely the royal family due to his involvement in palace
construction another you know, royalty related buildings, and I can
see how that would make them buddy buddy in that regard.
(06:59):
Um and Osama bin Laden grew up in a strictly
religious environment. He went to school in Jadah and according
to some official sources, he only traveled to a couple
of countries around the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan.
And that's according to these sources, for his entire life,
that's where he existed. So the reason that we mentioned
(07:22):
that is that you will often hear stories that he
secretly went to Switzerland one reason or another, or that
he secretly traveled to another country, maybe in the West,
maybe he went to you know, you'll you'll hear wild stuff,
or at least maybe a more fair way to say
it is unsubstantiated stuff. He adopted the beliefs and precepts
(07:43):
of the month Muslim Brotherhood during his time in school,
and you probably heard of the Muslim Brotherhood in different
news reports about events in the Middle East. Yet at
this time he was not involved in violent or terrorists
like activities. So to see what cha anged, we will
consult an excellent timeline provided to us by the good
(08:06):
folks at Frontline as well as some others, which means,
of course, this is a timeline of official events or
at least proven events. Cast your memory back December twenty six,
nineteen seventy nine, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, a boiling
point in the proxy war there between Russia and the West.
(08:27):
Ben Laden leaves his home in Saudi Arabia to join
the Afghan resistance, the Mujadin. Yeah, and he's about I
think twenty two at this time, so you know, twenty
two year old. You can imagine I guess those our
college age years for us in the West at least.
Um he's going out and joining a resistance movement. Now
(08:49):
we get to nineteen. This is when bin Lan officially
established al Qaeda. This is you've you've heard of them
many many times. They're an organization of X Mujahadeen and
other supporters, so the people who were fighting in Afghanistan,
right and during that interim s eight he did become
(09:11):
a successful fighter, working his way up from a resistance
fighter to a guerrilla commander. So when he establishes al Qaeda,
he was also successful at raising funding, which will we'll
talk about as well. Uh this, let's let's go through
just a few of the events that he was tied to.
(09:32):
Um okay, so real quick. In eighty nine, the Soviets
pull out of Afghanistan, bin Lad comes back to Saudi Arabia.
People love him. He's a hero, but he gets involved
in movements against the monarchy, which you know doesn't doesn't
go over well in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia. He's
(09:52):
kicked out. Uh moves back to Afghanistan then to stand
because at the time Stanna allowed any Muslim into the
country without a visa. And then if we fast forward
a little bit later, Uh, a bomb explodes in a
hotel in Aidan, Yemen. Right, Yeah, this is a place
(10:13):
where the United States troops had been staying. They were
on route to humanitarian humanitarian mission in Somalia. The bomb
killed two Austrian tourists and the U. S soldiers apparently
had already left once once this attack occurred, and there
were two yu many Muslim militants who were apparently trained
in Afghanistan who were injured in the blast as well.
(10:35):
They they're later arrested and US intelligence agencies alleged this
was the first terror attack involving Bin Ladden and his associates. Right,
and as we go through this, we're going to hear
more more statements like attacks involving Ben Laden or he
is associated or linked to it. So in February six,
(10:58):
the World Trades are bombing a hers. Later October of
the same year, eighteen US troops are killed in Mogadishu,
and people are People begin suspecting that bin Laden and
his followers trained and armed the men who killed the troops.
They also believe intelligence analysts over the years become more
(11:22):
and more certain that bin Laden isn't just leading terrorist groups.
He's financing different training camps, training camps in I think Sudan,
Northern Sudan. Now. In April nineteen ninety four, Saudi Arabia
takes note of all this stuff and says, you're getting
out of here. They revoked in law and citizenship and
(11:44):
they make moves to even freeze all of his assets,
at least the ones in Saudi Arabia because of his
support for some of these Muslim fundamentalist groups and uh
so he is establishing through he's establish wishing more training
camps around the Saudi Arabian border. In August of nineteen
(12:06):
he writes a letter. He writes a letter to the
King of Saudi Arabia, and he calls for a campaign
of guerrilla attacks in order to drive US forces out
of the kingdom. And for the next few years, we're
going to skip over some of the developments just a
quick laundry list for Saudi men accused bombing the Saudi
(12:27):
National Guard training center and the capitol are beheaded before
their execution, they claim to have read letters from bin Laden.
President Clinton signs a top secret order that authorizes the
CIA to use any and all means to destroy the
bin Laden network, as this is seen increasingly as a
threat to US forces or US personnel or citizens abroad. Yeah,
(12:53):
they even set up a grand jury, a secret grand
jury investigation into Bin Lawden in August of nine. They
then later in August of that year, nineteen six but
Lawdon signed and issued declaration of Jihad where he he
basically set out the organizational goals of these groups that
he had set up. Um They were to drive US
(13:14):
forces from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula, overthrow the government of
Saudi Arabia, liberate Muslim holy sites, and support Islamic revolutionary
groups around the world. He also in this declares that
Saudi's have the right to strike at u S troops
inside the Persian Gulf. Al right, and uh N US
(13:37):
backed multinational mercenary force allegedly is formed with the aim
abducting and killing Ben Laden. Obviously it does not work.
So then Lawdon does something uh, issuing a joint declaration
with several other groups where they try to form a
(13:58):
world Islamic Front. UH. Then let's go to nineteen. There's
a grand jury investigation of bin Laden, charging him with
the conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the US. And
this is where prosecutors charge that bin Laden heads a
terrorist organization called al Qaeda. UH. And you know, we
(14:20):
can go through some of these dates quick. He does
interviews with ABC Nightline. UH. He later does interviews with
Time UH and a second interview with ABC. And during
this time he is eventually becoming a not maybe not
public enemy number one, but one of the let's say
(14:41):
top fifteen for the US. When the U. S. Attorney's
Office files its most complete indictment of Osama bin Laden
in nineteen at the time, the grand jury charges the
him and eleven other people for conspiring to kill American nationals.
So this is a real thing, a global conspiracy if
(15:04):
you will to UH, to fight against or to assassinate
American nationals or Western nationals, and multiple times been land
states during his public appearances. You could call them that
that the U S. Should not be in the Holy Land. Yeah.
(15:25):
And I noticed something in looking at all of this
been that one of Osama bin Law's main targets was
the government and the the leadership within Saudi Arabia. And
it made me think about our Petro dollar episode and
the deal set up within Saudi Arabia Arabia with the
United States to trade in U S. Dollars. And I
(15:47):
don't know, I was interested to know maybe Osamavan Lawton
is learning about this larger financial set up, global financial
set up as he's you know, in the Mujahadeen and
getting older. I'm interested to know how much that influenced. Well.
You also, many conservative Muslims object to the Saudi Arabian
(16:12):
the Wabbi idea, right uh, and see it as a
means of propping up again political support for the ruling
House of sad Okay And I want to take a
second here before we continue, because we're talking a lot
about terrorist groups that are uh Islamic, right, But the
(16:34):
truth of the matter is that there are numerous terrorist
groups and and they're not all Islamic, something that mainstream
news in the West will try to slip past people,
but it is true. There are Christian terrorist groups, There
are Jewish terrorist groups, there are Hindi terrorist groups. There
(16:55):
are so many groups like that. And with as with
any other religion, the vast majority religious practitioner demographic is
not composed of violent, crazed people, right. It's composed of
people who have a belief system that to some degree
(17:19):
regulates or defines their life for the way they interact
with the world, and that and that's it. And the
Islamophobia that creeps into the West is entirely disingenuous. You're
absolutely right. The extremism is very different and should be
separated from religion. Right, there are two very different things.
(17:40):
The extremist ideas of any group are not necessarily religious
at their core. So with that being said, let's go
to the official story of the death. According to the
official narrative of Osama bin Laden is killed in a
compound on a second two thousand eleven in Abbatbad, Pakistan.
(18:04):
Seal Team six invades the compound. They're doing a project
called Operation Neptune Spear, which was meant to allegedly apprehend
Osama bin Laden. They used stealth helicopters, one of which
Rex And is later taken probably to China for some
(18:25):
reverse engineer accounts different on what happened. You will often
hear that bin Laden resisted or as followers resisted, there
was a firefight and he was killed. But either way,
according to the official story, he was killed in the compound,
(18:45):
and after that they transported his body to Afghanistan for
identification and it turned out that it was him, and
it was also earlier DNA evidence he used to confirm
this before they went in. And they took him to
the U. S. S. Carl Vincent, which which is the
site where they controversially and allegedly gave him a burial.
(19:09):
Let's see adhering to Islamic beliefs. Now, also let me say,
let me interrupt myself to make that correction. I believe
Neptune Spear was a kill or apprehend missions. So that
means if there was no resistance, they would take them alive.
Got you, now, Ben, Here's where it gets crazy. A
(19:31):
lot of people, a lot of people don't believe at
least part of that story. Many people don't believe any
of that story, not even the part where Osama bin
Laden died in two thousand and eleven. The they some
people even think that the entire role of Osama bin
Laden is some kind of story that's meant to be
(19:52):
told and told and re told, but is actually not true. Now,
this is going to be a huge debate depending on
depending on who you talk to, either way it goes.
But here are some of the the big ideas, the
big conspiracies that surround the life of Osama bin Laden.
The first one is that Osama bin Laden was actually
(20:15):
a CIA operative, that that he was you know, when
he was working when he was fighting with the Mujahadeen,
he was actually trained by the CIA to uh start
and lead groups. Right. So um, they believe that Osama
bin Laden and his groups received funding from Saudi Arabia
(20:36):
and the United States, and that al Qaeda is actually
a part of this and is a creation of the CIA. Right.
The primary crux that debate being whether this was a
willful creation or an inadvertence creation, where it says, you know,
let's fight communism by arming the locals and telling them
(20:58):
that they are uh they have the religious motivation or
there somehow spiritually mandated to fight this war against these invaders.
What could possibly go wrong? And let's train this guy
to be a leader like an excellent leader of these
guys to fight back in a resistance movement. And on
(21:18):
CNN you can see a clip from the Larry King
Show where Bandar ben Sultan, one of the diplomats for
Saudi Arabia, says, uh in the mid eighties, if you remember,
we and the United Saudi Arabia and the United States
were supporting the Mushadin to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets.
Osama bin Laden came to thank me for my efforts
(21:41):
to bring the Americans, our friends to help us against
the atheist, he said, the communist. Isn't that ironic? Larry
King says, how ironic? In other words, he came to
thank you for helping bring America to help him. And
what's strange about this? Well, I guess I should say
the opposite of strange, what's completely expected. The Central Intelligence
(22:04):
Agency in the US officials refute this, arguing that they
only supported native Afghanistan Mujadin, so not that not in
any way um bringing foreign fighters in or encouraging them.
And you can read similar statements from other people involved,
including the former head of the I s I Pakistan's
(22:26):
intelligence agency. There's this other idea that Osama bin Laden
worked for the US right up to September eleven. A
person named Sybil Edmonds, who you've heard of before, I'm sure,
said that the U S outsourced terror operations to al
Qaeda and the Taliban for years and years and years.
(22:48):
Uh right, uh. And according to some French sources, CIA
agents met with bin Laden two months before nine eleven,
who was already wanted for the bombing of the USS
coal at that time, and then allegedly two days before
nine eleven, two days he called his step mom and said,
(23:10):
in two days you're going to her big news, and
you're not going to hear from me for a while. So,
in other words, Ben, it seems as though American forces,
the US Department of Defense, and the CIA had several
many opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden, and yet they
failed to do so, or at least they did not
(23:32):
do so they chose not to. Perhaps even even after
nine eleven, the U S military intentionally allowed Ben Lauden
to evade capture. It sounds pretty crazy, right right, And
for people who believe that the Great Game continues, this
sort of intentional encouragement of instability seems completely plausible. However,
(23:56):
of course you have to point out, if we're being fair,
that uh, instability might be useful to a certain point, Uh,
but complete anarchy and chaos is not. So that that's
the big crux of that idea. How involved? If it all,
(24:16):
was Osama bin Laden with v C I A. If so,
what degree of importance did they hold to each other?
And to what degree was the US somehow participating in
this proxy war? Was it just training to local Afghanistan mujerdine,
(24:36):
as the CIA and other officials maintain, or was it
more active? And that's just one. There's there's another. There's
another death related belief, and that's that when people claimed
that bin Laden was assassinated in two thousand and eleven,
it was entirely made up and never happened, and that
(25:00):
Osama bin Laden actually died years before in two thousand
and one. Yes, been some people believe that Osama bin
Lawden actually died ten years prior to his official death
in two thouleven. They think he died in two thousand one.
They think it was either from illness from a long
(25:23):
something going wrong with his lungs or I've heard things
about kidney problems and having to be on dialysis. They
also believe that he may have been killed in an
American bombing. Now, these aren't these aren't I hate to
say it, but fringe sources that are talking about this,
these are these aren't nuts. These are government officials. And
(25:46):
if if they are nuts, spend they are at least
government officials, right. I think that's pretty fair of you
to say. We're talking about people like General Tommy Frank's,
former American military commander for Afghanistan, or former Press sident
of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharev, who, as we mentioned on
the video, you might remember from a strange and awkward
(26:08):
interview on The Daily Show back when John Stewart was
heading a personal hero of yours, Matt uh the you
don't like him, No, I am a big fan, um.
But the officials, uh, the officials that we're talking about,
these generals, they seem to base this speculation, this conclusion
on just the amount of bombing in the Toura Bora Mountains.
(26:31):
So they hadn't actually seen a body or anything, at
least going to the New York Times, and that is right,
ladies and gentlemen, The New York Times reported on this too.
Back in December two thousand and one. Another source of
the Pakistan Observer went on they they quoted a Taliban
leader who said that Assamban Lawdon died of quote a
serious lung complication back in December. Yeah, and they also
(26:55):
that Pakistan Observer article adds more information and alleged funeral.
And of course, uh, it seems like it's my role
in this episode too. Not my favorite role, but it's
got to be done. Uh, it's my role in this
episode to point out the other sides of the story.
This is very close to wartime propaganda. So some people
(27:18):
have doubted this, thinking that I s I. Pakistan's intelligence
agency supplied purposely misleading information with the idea of throwing
the US war. When I say war machine, I don't
mean anything other than an enormous and efficient thing. Some
people believe that I s I. Pakistan's intelligence agency purposefully misled, uh,
(27:44):
misled the public, with the idea being that if the
US forces could be convinced that Osama bin Lanham was dead,
they might be thrown off ben Laden's trail. And so
people who believe this, I to you, I mean, because
this is a lot to think about if someone dies
(28:04):
in two thousand and one, then how could you even
assuming you could pull it off by by doing some
massive conspiracy and cover up for a decade. Why would
you do that? Why would you go to all that trouble.
That is a tough question to answer, Ben, but it
might go back to the idea that we said at
the top of a boogeyman. I can see it being
(28:27):
beneficial on either side. So from from Pakistan side, wanting,
you know, wanting to have this this at least he's
a kind of a leader, an asset for intelligence and
for strategy. Having this person at least believed to be
dead and then using him on the inside, I can
see that being advantageous. Inversely, I can see it being
(28:49):
advantageous to want to make people believe that he is
still alive, because it creates the specter of the evil
that you're fighting in all of these places. Right at least,
it's good for morale for your troops, it's good for
even the people inside your country or other people that
you're trying to inspire to fight these wars for you,
(29:10):
I can imagine it being highly advantageous either way. I
see what you're saying, yeah, people who believe this theory
that in Loton died in two thousand one typically ascribe
the motivation to things like that. You know that it
might be for political maneuvering, like the hostage crisis in Iran,
that it might be due to uh an economically driven
(29:30):
desire for war to continue because some people do make
a lot of money off of it. Although that's a
that seems a little bit far fetched for me, not
that there would be people who would want work to
continue so much as that there would need to be
one person upon whom that decision hinges. I think it's
very easy to create a situation wherein a war is
(29:55):
quote unquote necessary. Um, I'm sure. I think it's just
helpful to have an iconic image or name or something
that can be repeated over and over again. Sure. Yeah,
that begins to serve as sort of an autonomy. Right.
So there's also a the idea of uncertainty. You wouldn't
want to report that someone was dead if you didn't
(30:17):
really think they were dead, because what a coup that
is to come back from the dead and the public eye.
So it could just be that people didn't know for sure.
It could be you know that that there was an
advantage politically speaking for the timeline. So that's that's what
(30:37):
people who believe he died in two thousand one. I
actually believe. And I think that Benezier Bhutto may have
made some public statements about that too before her assassination. Yes,
I would if I were you and you have not
seen this, I would look up Benezier Bhutto Osama bin
Laden I think maybe died two thousand one. Where she
(30:58):
is conducting or she is being interviewed and she says
she states, at least according to the video, that Osama
bin Lan died in two thousand one. But is she
just referring to this information that was coming out of Pakistan?
You know? I mean there are a lot of questions
and you will read, you can read multiple sources that
will go either way. Um, and it's tough to figure
(31:21):
out what's true. They're like, what is she actually referring to?
And we'd love to hear what you think on this listeners,
So if if you're hearing something, whether on this point
or any of the earlier points or later stuff we
talked about, and you'd like to weigh in, uh, we'd
love to hear your perspective. Of course, if you are
(31:41):
a member of a military force, whether in the US
and Pakistan somewhere else, Uh, we'd like to hear perspective.
We believe it is invaluable. And if you are not
in the military, of course, we still want to hear
from you and hear what you have found in the
course of or delved into this rabbit hole. And speaking
(32:03):
of rabbit holes, we have come to probably the most
widely reported in the mainstream media disagreement with the official narrative,
and it starts with a guy named Seymour Hirsh, legendary
journalist Seymour Hirsh. Now you might remember this, gentleman. I'm
sure you probably saw the actual article pop up on Reddit.
(32:25):
That's how I first came across it. Um. He's a
guy who wrote about the Myli massacre and the cover
up in Vietnam. He also wrote about the Abo Grabe
prisoner abuse. Um, there was an article that blew up
all over London review of books. He's well known, a
very well known and I would say in maybe prestigious writer.
(32:48):
He's somebody who was held up. Seymour Hirsh. I believe
is somebody who was held up as being an authority
in a lot of places. Well, he's gone through a
cycle of being derided and then lauded after you know,
enough time passes. He says that the raid did happen
that night on May second, two thousand and eleven. It
just didn't go down the way people think. The US
(33:12):
official position is that the I, S I and the
top grass in Pentagon had no idea, somehow had no
idea that Osama bin Laden was living in that compound
all along. They did what they just they've met got,
which is um very similar to very similar to Hitler
(33:33):
surviving World War Two and then Parliament finding out that
he had a flat somewhere in London. So this is
what Hersch says happens happened. He said a walk in
asset alerted the CIA. A walk in asset. It is
a very difficult proposition for the CIA because walkin asset
(33:56):
could easily be a double agent or someone who is
sincere but was misled. And we're literally saying a walk
in asset this is this is a person who walks
into an official place and says, hey, I have information
I want to share with you, right walks into the
embassy and says, I want to talk with someone, and
(34:18):
all of a sudden, you're learning a lot more about
that consular attache or the person who's the head of
janitorial services turns out to have a couple of extra
job duties of which were not aware. So after this
asset alerts the CIA and they managed to verify the information.
Herst says that the Pakistani and American government struck a
(34:41):
deal and that they would stage this raid. So the
Pakistan was going to give up, give up in Laden,
and they were going to make it seem as though
it were unilateral action on the part of the US.
One thing I just really quickly want to go back to.
I was interested in the reasons if this were true.
(35:03):
Why in the heck would Pakistan, if they knew that
he was there, to keep him there. And what what
I seem to find is that it was some kind
of like, hey, we've got Osama bin lawden U jihadist
groups or the groups that want to, you know, overthrow
governments and create havoc. We've got this guy, We're protecting him.
(35:25):
You don't have to you know, it's okay, you don't
have to hurt us. However, if they were keeping it secret,
they wouldn't be telling anybody that, right, so it would
only be it Osama bin Lawden's connections. I guess to say, hey,
don't attack Pakistan. I don't know. I was just trying
to wrap my head around the reasoning behind it. I mean,
it's a it's a heck of a poker chip. Yeah,
(35:47):
I mean, to be crass about it. It's also it's
also quite possible that at this point in Lawden had
little to know actual control over over the situation. Right,
So a lot of you'll you'll hear people disagree about
the degree of influencer control he had. Was he just
(36:07):
releasing tapes saying continue on, carry on my wayward son,
or was he was he instead, um, you know, actively
plotting things and telling people show up on this day
at this time, meet this guy and plan the attack
from there. And if so, to what degree. The problem
(36:30):
is that a lot of this stuff remains classified. We
can tell you about some things that were allegedly declassified,
which will do in a little bit. Here's one of
the here's the next series of things that hers says
that lead other journalists to attack him and say that
he was a quote unquote conspiracy theorist meaning you know,
(36:53):
meaning as an insult, as a don't pay attention to
this guy when terminating cliche. Right when you think of him,
think of reptilian hybrids or whatever. So uh. He her
says bin Lad was never meant to survive the raid.
He was supposed to be killed, and that he also
(37:14):
been laden, that is, did not receive an Islamic burial
at sea, did not receive a burial at sea at all.
That this was a fabrication. A lot of the body
was riddled with bullets, uh, and some pieces were thrown
out of the helicopter as they flew to Afghanistan, and
one consultant, one anonymous source told Hersch that the CIA
(37:37):
took the body once the remains landed in that country.
And all of this leads us to the the next thing.
This is something that I am very interested in. This
is the This is relating to the audio and visual
evidence of Osama bin Laden speaking into a camera or
(38:00):
being interviewed on camera, or talking into a mic and
giving orders and or um, I guess just rallying the troops. Um.
There was a lot of media that was created over
the years by Osama bin Laden or allegedly by Osama
bin in Laden, because a lot of people believe that
(38:23):
some of the videos that you may remember, some of
the iconic ones, were actually not Osama bin Laden. One
of the true the things that we can definitely point
to as hey, this is this is absolutely fact, is
that they're German experts looked at a bin Laden confession
video from I think it was, was it two thousand
one or two thousand two, think it's two thousand one, um,
(38:47):
where they were saying that the video was itself incorrectly translated. Um.
They're not disputing that it was actually Osama bin Laden,
but they were saying that it was perhaps purposefully uh
not translated correctly. So in that case, they're saying that
it was him, Uh it was. The video is one
(39:08):
where he's in a circle of followers. People had called
it a quote unquote damning admission of guilt. But according
to uh, according to the German experts, they're the tapes
tampered with contains translation errors and this is this is
the one that is supposedly him saying yes, nine eleven,
(39:29):
we did nine eleven. Basically, the the the the errors
that they're mentioning. You can read about in more detail
if you just search for German experts. I think it
came under Spiegel German experts Sabin Laden confession incorrectly translated,
(39:50):
and you'll find it and you can find the discussion
about it. Um. I would say, if you want to
play a dangerous game and you do not uh, do
not yourself speak German, you can all always put your
faith in Google Translate and the best. So there's another
guy named Neil from Actor Factor who believes that a different,
(40:13):
uh different tape of Osama bin Laden was manufactured from
various earlier audio visual appearances. And the person who says
that this was such a compilation is a fellow named
Neil Crowit's a digital image forensics expert. He looked at
(40:33):
the tape from September seven, two thousand seven, and said
it was full of visual and audio splices, not just
that but low quality and it was a likely fake.
And then there's also a I think it's a two
thousand two audio tape that was attributed allegedly to beIN
lawden Um. There's some there's groups with scientists there that
(40:55):
we're saying this is fake it's not actually Osama bin Lawden.
And there's a Guardian article that you can read. Um,
you might be able to search two to al Qaeda
a tape perhaps or if you would be able to
find it. Yeah, and we can tell you a little
bit about it. So there is a thing called the
Institute of Linguistics and Phonetics in Paris and UH they
(41:21):
found that based on the phonetic testing, the Al Jazeera
tape was genuine. This this tape was delivered to Al
Jazeera in two thousand two, is Matt said. American experts
also thought it was been laden, but the quality of
the tape is pretty poor, so people aren't completely sure.
(41:43):
But researchers at a place called the dal Mole Institute
for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence believe the message was recorded by
someone else. They built a computer model of Osama bin
Laden's voice, and they based it on an hour of
actual recordings and then using voice recognition systems that they
(42:04):
were that were being developed for banking security. These Swiss
scientists tested that uh synthetic model or that creative model
against twenty known recordings of the actual bin Laden system
correctly identified as voice. In nineteen of them, and that
means there's a five percent risk of error in their
(42:27):
conclusion that the latest tape was a fake. Mm hmm,
so it You know, it's a little different too, because
it's not a bunch of people listening to it and
then mapping out something. It picks up things that the
human or the human ear probably doesn't record. Now Here
is the really weird thing, you guys, because they're they're
(42:47):
all kinds of theories out there about videos that were
solid Latin impersonators. Oh. Man, You'll hear people writing online
or just see people writing online. Man. Oh, someone in
lot looks really different in two thousands seven than he
did in two thousand one or two thousand six, or
even you know the latest later later videos. Um that
his appearance seems to change drastically over all of these videos. Um. Well,
(43:11):
here's the thing. The CIA actually did. Uh. At least
they had the idea to create a propaganda video of
Osama bin Laden um And according to Jeff Stein, they
actually did create it. Um, at least according to the
people that he spoke to, a propaganda video. Correct. Yes,
I'm just gonna go to the article that Jeff Stein
(43:34):
wrote for It's a blog called Spy Talk that he
wrote for um Washington Post. He's speaking. It's called CIA
units wacky idea depict Saddam as gay. This was written
in two thousand ten, in May specifically, and he's talking
about the Iraq Operations Group and they were kicking around
(43:56):
ideas to like ways to discredit Saddam Hussein, to produce
videos that would make Sam look really bad. Uh. They
would be grainy looking videos, perhaps taken from a cell
phone or from just a really low quality camera that
would not actually be set on doing compromising things like
making They were talking about making a sex tape, possibly
(44:16):
with a teenage boy, um, and then flooding a rock
with the videos. They also talked about making a fake
television program with fake news bulletins talking about how Sam
Mussein was going to step down and he was going
to have his son come into power. UM. So then
about halfway down the article he talks about how the agency.
(44:40):
I guess he's referring to the CIA here. Uh. They
did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden
and his cronies sitting around the campfire, swinging bottles of
liquor and savoring their conquests with boys. One of the
former CIA officers are called chuckling at the memory. Uh,
that's a that's a little strange to me that they
(45:00):
even had that idea, although I can see I can
see why that would be maybe a strategic move. It
doesn't require any guns right at that point, It doesn't
require any assets going in. It just you'd make some
videos and then send them around. I think of a
lot of people wouldn't believe that though, primarily for the
(45:21):
consumption of alcohol. Yeah, you're not supposed to do that, right,
And there's no judgment in brainstorming, So I'm sure this
idea is just the tip of the propaganda iceberg that
we are hearing about. There's one other conspiracy that we
should mention about Osama bin Laden that a lot of
people in the West might not have heard. But it's
(45:42):
it's fairly it has been fairly popular in the past
in some other countries, and that is the idea that
Osama bin Laden, like Elvis Tupac, Kurt Cobain or Jim Morrison,
is somewhere somehow. Oh, Michael Jackson as well. I'll live
and just hasn't been apprehended, will return to fight another day. Uh,
(46:06):
this this theory for you know, for a lot of people,
seems like, well, how how plausible is it? Why would he?
Why would someone do all this stuff and then disappear
right to what end? And it doesn't seem like bin
Laden would be the kind of person who would just
(46:29):
disappear without continuing some sort of fight. But I feel
like it's important for us to note that. And with that,
those are some of the more once the where we're
using the video Matt persistent conspiracy theories regarding Osama bin Laden,
(46:49):
both as the career and terrorism, as well as his
death at the hands of Seal Team six or in
two thousand one and from bombing by US forces, from
Marfan syndrome, from lung complications, et cetera. And I would
love to hear from someone who knows more or has
(47:12):
some has some proof, or has something entirely different. But wait,
speaking hearing, do you do you hear? That's it? Just?
Am I having a stroke? Or is it? I'm pretty
sure it's a stroke? The nope, there it is. Well
that can leave one thing. Where are you sure you're
(47:33):
not having a stroke? Oh? Do you know? Maybe is
this my new death experience? Talking to you right now,
you've got a little twitching on that. Either worried about you.
It's been a rough week. I'm worried about me too.
Then who are you talking to? What's that? I didn't
say anything? Oh god, I smell toast. I smell bitter almonds.
(47:56):
All right, Well, I'm not having a stroke, Matt. You're
not null. You're good. I'm having some kind of event,
but I don't know if it's a stroke. All right,
you want to soldier through, so so you know it's
up to you. Do you want to? You want to
talk about this episode you get something different on your mind.
You know, I've always got things floating around, man. But
(48:16):
if you if you want to, you want to keep
this going, feel free. I kind of want to know
just what's on your mind. My exploded car largely, Uh,
that's you know, a little personal for the podcast. Probably No, no, no,
well we should we should say it wasn't when we
say explosion, it wasn't a car bomb. It was not
a nor bomb. No, it was just it's time to die.
(48:39):
Is it official? Now? It's official. It's very official. YEA
dead cart, a dead car. Well, it's cool. Let's look
to the future. Let's do what what are you planning
on doing for transportation? Um, well, in the short term,
I have a very dear friend who has an extra car.
You let me use so I don't have to make
a snap decision and you know, buy something random just
(48:59):
to have have something. So that's good. So I'm feeling
pretty good about that. But just you know, in general,
it's just a little bit of a downer, surman. I
liked that car a lot, and I was only in
it a couple of times. Yeah, that you know of,
Oh god, sorry, it's seen. It's time in the sun.
Oh man. I feel like there there should be a
(49:22):
good night, sweet Prince goodbye to a car song we
could play I don't know, motoring. Yeah, sure, so well,
we do have another up like uplifting event we could
talk about nat UMNTT got a lot of email and
tweets about the earlier announcement from last week. Yeah. There
(49:46):
there is several really lovely emails that we've received so far. Um,
it does feel weird that you're reading them to Ben.
I forget something like, oh man, Ben's having to read
this advice about my kid. I'm sorry, dude. Oh no,
it totally makes sense. I don't feel like it's my
place to respond. Oh, no, you're you should not respond
(50:06):
to Diana and I are actually going to go through
and respond to them in our adventures for the next
couple of weeks and in your own time, because there
are there are a couple that are fantastic, like, so
much more information than I could have ever asked for,
helpful information. Catch people up on what what you asked
for last last weeks in case they don't know. Well.
(50:29):
I was basically like, Hey, there's a baby coming, I'm scared.
Help that's what That's what I said. And I we
got some messages from people who you know, have had
experience with children, and some of the best stuff was
just how to how to cope with your relationship, Like,
you're my relationship with my wife while we are trying
(50:51):
to take care of this baby and we're both terrified
and stressed out and lacking sleep. No, you have a
kid as well. Did you give any advice to Matt?
We have talks, you know, and I don't tweet them
at him or send them to him via email, but
you know, we occasionally run into each other in the
hall and have a little moments where we talk about
child wearing stuff. How old your daughter? She's six six,
(51:14):
a good age. I feel like kids when they're when
before they get to the double digits, there's this age
where you and I have talked about this off air.
There's this age where they just seem so much more
intelligent than adults. I thought you were going to save
and they actually are. No, you could say that about
some adults, perhaps myself included, So I don't feel bad
(51:34):
saying that. Yeah, my kids creepy smart. She's like the
girl in the Bad Seed. You know, I'm afraid she's
gonna push me down the stairs, and I'm not looking
at I'm kidding. She's she's really smart now. She is.
She is, but again that there's always something going on
in there, and I'm always not I'm not always a
hundred percent aware of what it is, so I have
to bring something up. Really fascist we're talking about kids.
So I I went to Kroger the other day. I
(51:54):
think already told you about this, but I'm sorry. I
went to Kroger the other day to get some food.
We're stalking up frozen things so that we can just
make them really easily. When we're both having downtime, and
when I was being checked out, it was a twenty
year old woman who was actually checking me out in
an eighteen year old woman who was doing the bagging,
and they were having when I walked up, they were
(52:16):
having a long conversation about kids these days. Uh, they're
always on their cell phones. They got no respect. I
mean it was it was a crazy conversation for very
young people to be having, and specifically they were discussing
these kids. I mean no, they said, oh, man, I
didn't get my cell phone until I was in middle school.
(52:37):
And I just went, oh, wow, Yeah, I don't think
it was that like I was gonna guys, I just couldn't.
I just it was so funny to me to hear
that happening already, And I was trying to imagine what
your daughter and my son are gonna be. Like. Yeah,
it's weird with her because I mean, she's really good
(52:57):
at operating those devices. I don't let her mess with
them like all the time, but she likes to play Minecraft,
and I have Minecraft on my phone, so I let
her mess with that. But um, and she'll occasionally I'll
text her mom and I'll get a text back. That's
clearly her. Yea, so she gets it. But you know,
she's not her own phone or anything obviously, but she
knows how to work that stuff. She knows how to
(53:18):
send pictures, she knows, she knows how to take selfies.
There was one time where she changed my Facebook profile
pictures secretly to a picture of her, Like I said,
creep creepy, smart, you gotta nip this in the butt.
That that's pretty, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, And I guess
if we, if we had to speculate, there are a
few things that we could think children in the future
(53:41):
would look back on as ridiculous or I can't believe
they did that kind of antiquated things. And one of
the biggest, in my opinion, might be having to use
your hands to interface with electronics. Yeah, interface anything with
your manually. That seems like, why would you do that?
Remember that seeing him back to the future to or
Marty mcflies using the shoot him Up arcade game and
(54:04):
the kids go, you have to use your hands? Yeah,
I ever understood that joke when I was younger, and
then like now, it's just so obvious. We're all going
to have implants. It's on the way guys, Yeah, you
can get Google in your head for free as long
as you listen to the advertisements that play in your
mind like you're hearing voices. You just have to think
(54:27):
that you agree to the contract. You don't actually have
to sign anything. You just go yep, just just the
sub vocalize no. Uh, well, that sounds like an episode
for another day again. We would I would love to
hear from everybody with your opinions on the death of
Osama bin Lan. Do you believe the official narrative? Do
(54:51):
you think something else happened? And if so what? You
can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter.
You can check out the earlier episodes we allud to
two on our website as well as our YouTube channel.
And and that's the end of this classic episode. If
you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you
(55:12):
can get into contact with us in a number of
different ways. One of the best is to give us
a call. Our number is one eight three three st
d w y t K. If you don't want to
do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at I Heart radio dot com. Stuff
they Don't want you to Know is a production of
i heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
(55:34):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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