CLASSIC: Missing in National Parks

In 2015 alone more than 300 million people visited the US national park system. Some stayed for a few hours, others for a few days - and, occasionally, some never make it out. Join the guys as they take a closer look at the fact, fiction and conjecture surrounding disappearances in national parks.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, this is a crazy one, and I think it's
fair to say that there are some episodes that really
stick with us. You don't always find the answer, but
sometimes you find a clear problem. And it's true Uncle
Sam keeps no track of how many people go missing
every year, every day in national parks. I mean, to

(00:22):
be fair, is there a budget for that? You know,
you know, there's gotta be a waiver, you sign, there's
there's signs with the skull and crossbones. You enter at
your own risk. It's kind of on you. But you know,
there's often times people take advantage of that, and there's
foul play as well. Guys. Guys were talking about some
of the most beautiful places on Earth, Glacier National Park, Yosemite. Man,

(00:44):
how are people going missing in these parks? And why
Some people might be committing something called pseudo side or
attempting to fake their death and start a new life.
Some people might be victims of foul play. And there's
some crazier theories out there as well. Gosh, when do
we do this? Originally we we first did this episode

(01:06):
and then we interviewed later the America's Authority on the
statistics here. Yeah, this is almost exactly six years ago
that we recorded this episode. Wow, our old anyhow, this
is our classic episode missing in national parks. It is real,
it is true, and we hope you enjoy it. Stay

(01:28):
safe out there. From UFOs to psychic powers. Since government conspiracies,
history is riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back
now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

(01:50):
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Noel. I am Ben. You argue hopefully, and
that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Let's let's get into this with a personal story first.
Do you guys have any experiences and parks. Yeah, I've
been to several national parks with the family over the years.

(02:12):
Took a trip out to the Grand Canyon which was
really nice with a couple of friends. Never um, never,
never done anything insane though at these places usually it's
just hiking on, you know, for a day and then
go back to a campsite, or just go back to
the car and heading home or to a hotel. Actually,

(02:32):
in my my hometown, outside of my hometown, Augusta, Georgia,
there is a national park called Finnasy Swamp Nature Park,
and I had something of a spiritual awakening there. Let's
say there's a little area where you walk out onto
this dock um, this kind of like winding bridge that
goes over the swamp, and you end up on this

(02:54):
sort of like floating little pier out in the middle
of the swamp, and it's just like covered neon green,
you know, muck, And there were just thousands of tiny
little blue insects that they call no sums, you guys
know what these in the South. I'm not sure what
they call them elsewhere, but they're they're very tiny, and

(03:14):
they are blue, and they are very easy to breathe in.
And they were just clouds of them all around my head,
and every time I breathed in, I felt like they
were there going inside me. Did they it's probably a few, Probably,
they're very small. Yeah, that's sort of derailed my spiritual awakening,
but it was beautiful aft to that point. So I

(03:36):
also have had experiences in parks. There is a park
here in George and the Atlanta metro area called Arabia Mountain. Yes,
I was just talking to a friend about that. So,
as she said, it looks like you're walking on the
surface of the moon. Yeah, it's it's different. It's part
of the basaltic extrusion that formed Stone Mountain, which is

(03:57):
another strange place to visit and also a park. Uh.
The reason that we're talking about this today is because
the US has an amazing system of public land. And
despite the political changes that the country undergoes every you know,

(04:19):
for eight or two or six years or whatever, regardless
of how the tied shifts, people seem to in general
as a culture respect and want to keep this stuff wild.
And every so often you'll hear stories about uh, government
agencies privatizing it or allowing businesses to do this that

(04:42):
or the third there. But the fact remains, Uh, the
fact remains that the U. S National Park System is
an amazing institution. I almost got to go on a
road trip to Yellowstone when I was in high school.
My parents wouldn't let me go because the trust the
guy and slightly older guy. We knew who would be driving,

(05:03):
and they were pretty sure that we were going to
do a lot of drugs, try to sleep around with
some fellow campers and stuff, all of which but I'm
sure would have been true had I gone. But had
I gone, I would also be one of the proud
visitors to the first ever national park in the US,

(05:25):
which is Yellowstone, right, founded by Alysses Grant on March one,
eighteen seventy two. It actually predates the National Park Service,
not to be confused with Jellystone, which which clearly derived
you know its name from Yellowstone. Absolutely, yeah, that's all
it's coming together. So noel, the National Park Service has

(05:47):
been said Yellowstone predated the actual National Park Service because
that was created by Woodrow Wilson on August twenty five,
nineteen sixteen, several several years after Yellowstone was established. Circle
Woodrow Wilson's from my hometown of Augusta, Georgia. Whoa crazy?
The Woodrow Wilson boyhood home is historic site. There have

(06:08):
you been there? Name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
It's fun to stay it is. Do you think one
can only hope for the kind of success that makes
people reconstruct and preserve your boyhood home? Oh? Man, wouldn't
that be great? People will be so unimpressed with mine
really is born in a year? No? No, all right,

(06:34):
so we have a It would be cool though. There's
plenty of room for a your or nomadic existence in
the National Park System today, Ladies and gentlemen, this is huge.
It has four and ten areas and when there's a
reason we use the word areas. And there are more
than eighty four million acres all told. Yeah, and this

(06:56):
goes throughout every state in the contiguous United States. The
content mental us and expands out to the District of Columbia,
which is still inside the United States but not exactly
a state. Uh, the American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, and
even the Virgin Islands. And it was why are we
calling these areas just parks? So some of them aren't

(07:19):
exactly parks. Right. You've got something like a monument that's
been erected somewhere. The surrounding area of that monument might
be considered an area of a of the National Park System.
Let's say a battlefield where a battle from the Civil
War took place. Something like that. That isn't necessarily a
park of any kind in itself, for a nature preserve,

(07:40):
but the area needs to be maintained. Yeah. This also
includes lake shores, seashores, scenic rivers, trails, and oddly enough,
the White House. Yeah, the White House. The area of
the White House is also considered one of the areas
under the purview of the National Park Service. So like

(08:01):
when they mow the lawn at the White House, those
are like our I feel like trying to get away, like, well, yeah,
we'll do put the lawn mowing and under here. That's
where the budget will come from. Perhaps perhaps, or perhaps
if you work for the Park Service you can write
in and tell us a little bit about that. Either way,
this is a runaway success. In two thousand and fifteen alone,

(08:25):
how many people went to National parks was upwards of
three hundred and seven million. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a
ton of people's. It's a son of people. And um,
this isn't something we really discussed in advance, but bringing
it up to the modern day, um, pretty interesting story.
I heard NPR a few weeks ago, specifically about Joshua
Street National Park, and it applies to pretty much all

(08:46):
of them. How there are so many historic structures at
these parks, like from cabins to just different, um, different
buildings that are falling into horrible disrepair, not to mention
the amount of money and effort it requires to maintain
the grounds, cutting back foliage and things like that and
just you know, just you own a house man, you

(09:07):
know how much of a pain it is just to
keep up your yard. Can you imagine having to do
it for acres and acres and acres of National park land.
So apparently these parks today have these intense lists of
problems and things, but there's just not enough money to
cover the cost. Well yeah, I mean, like you said,
it's crazy expensive, and I guess when you're looking at
a budget, it might be difficult to you know, convince

(09:30):
someone that this is where a priority is. Yeah. The
National Park Service is part of the Bureau of the Interior,
and for following you know, the budgetary money. Uh, it's
composed of more than twenty two thousand employees paid employees
and two hundred and twenty thousand or so volunteers. Wow,

(09:52):
that's that's who gets the work done. And I just
found the statum from the story. I just wanted to
throw this out there and we can go, Um, there
is a, according to to this m p R piece,
nearly twelve billion dollar maintenance backlog of work that needs
to be accomplished, but there just isn't the money in
the budget for the park. So I just thought that
was interesting. I mean, some people would say that the

(10:15):
the US is lucky that the parks still exists. Other
people would say that there's something completely different to this story,
that there's something different going on. And we'll get to
that in just a moment, but first a quick words.

(10:47):
Here's where it gets crazy. So out of the what
was it, no? Upwards of three hundred and seven million,
seven two seven thousand precise, So you've got the number. Yeah,
Well three of those were US and listeners. Odds are
that some of those people were also you. And if
you're like many of these people, you visit for a day,

(11:09):
hike a few hours, maybe a weekend, maybe take a
couple of weeks and go down a river, or get
really into some strange throw Walden stuff and or Emerson stuff.
And then sometimes people just don't come out at all.
People disappear in national parks, and they disappear for different reasons.

(11:34):
There are some people who disappear who do it on purpose.
Oh yeah, I just don't want to live off I
don't want to live on the grid anymore, right, I
mean I've had that inclination a couple of times in
my life. I think we all have there's something so
tempting about just you know, disappearing walking into the forest,

(11:55):
never to return, hopping a train to the great horizon.
You know, I have to admit, when we started this
show back in oh eight, when we started production, uh
midway through two thousand nine, I really felt like, oh
my gosh, dude, we have to get off the grid
right now, all of us, anyone who is awake right
now needs to leave, go to the woods and just

(12:17):
learn how to farm. They make it really difficult for
you to do that, just I mean, just in terms
of like dealing with city government, you know, logistics. I mean,
I actually saw the story court rules living off the
grid is illegal out of Cape Coral, Florida, where basically
someone has sort of like a tiny house situation out
in the woods and um unplugged for municipal services, and

(12:40):
that was ruled by a court in Cape Coral to
be illegal. Um, a magistrate judge actually said that this
individual is not allowed to live on our own private
property without being hooked up to the city's water systems
and health and human And that's the thing. There's always
some some reason, you know, and I think it's absurd,
but um, it's interesting, and you know that hands maybe

(13:01):
disappearing is the only way to do it right, and
we'll we'll do an episode about how to disappear if
we have it yet. It's pretty fascinating. I think Stuff
you Should Know did a piece about living off the
grid if you would like to check that out listeners.
So for people who willingly disappear, people who become modern hermits.
There's an example of a guy named Daniel Solo Swalo

(13:25):
who quit using money in two thousand and then moved
to some canyons near a place called Arches National Park.
And he's been living in these different caves, tucked into
these nooks of sandstone. Uh and he just doesn't want
to practice anything related to money. You can read some

(13:45):
great um you can read some great stories about him
on the Atlantic, and of course, uh an internet search
will show you some of his various trials, travails, his
ups and downs. There's a great article on the Atlantic
that you shared Ben that it kind of goes through
his beliefs almost and why he's doing it. It's it's

(14:07):
pretty interesting. Talks a lot about capitalism and and oh,
some people temporarily reside in national parks. Such as members
of the Rainbow family gatherings, you know, which is another
fascinating topic. And in either of these above cases, yes,
ladies and gentlemen, it is absolutely possible that some individuals

(14:28):
in these situations may be running from the law or
from other institutions, maybe an abusive spouse, or in some
cases breaking it. Because let's say you're an active you're
an active member of a militia, or your a felon

(14:49):
who is on the run with some priors, you can disappear.
It's way easier to disappear in America than people make
you think. It's not easy eat by any stretch, sure,
and it's much easier to disappear in let's say, oh
Woods or an isolated area than it would be in
the middle of the city where you have to go
procure things or something. Yeah, they mentioned all the closed

(15:12):
circuit cameras that exist in a situation, traffic cameras, things
like that that aren't out there. You know, you might
have the occasional park ranger snooping around, you know, trying
to make sure you're not stealing any picnic baskets. But
you know, barring picnic basket theft, probably we're gonna we're
gonna get into some pic nic basket theft. So, for instance,

(15:35):
some people might move nomadically from one site to the next,
people who travel for alternative community or intentional community kind
of gatherings, but they might still have little interaction with
the mainstream world, which the rainbow gatherings is referred to
as Babylon. I need to learn more about the rainbow gatherings.

(15:57):
You can go. I'm sure they'd be happy to see you.
I might have to try it out, guys. A lot
of hula hooping, right, I imagine there's some hula hooping involved,
probably not competitive though it's just hula hooping for hula
hooping sake. They don't seem like the most competitive group
of people. But if anybody's been to a rainbow gathering,
we'd like to hear about it, right with your experience,
I am teasing. I have always just in the past
associated it with like um news, people that like follow

(16:22):
bands or something like like the graf being sort of
that same kind of scene. But I could be entirely wrong, Oh,
I could totally I could completely see that. So in
those cases, people might have a largely off the grid
or disappeared life, but interact with the mainstream world sporadically
or as needed. And this goes to the picnic basket example. Yes,

(16:45):
this goes to the wild Man of Central Maine. His
real name is Christopher Thomas Knight. Again, awesome article on
this dude. I think it's in g Q. Yes, Uh,
it's okay. So I just want to say, first off,
this guy I kind of want to be him. But

(17:07):
then as you continue reading on, no, no, maybe not,
Maybe that's a bad idea. Uh. This gentleman when he
when he was twenty years old, just took off into
the woods. He said it was around the time because
he didn't know what year it was when he was
asked by the people who apprehended him, eventually he was captured. Yes,
so this guy was living in the woods, and what
he would do is he would break into let's say

(17:29):
a cabin that's on property somewhere with people camp seasonally, sure, exactly,
and just take whatever he could from there, or break
into let's say, you break into a yurt or you know,
a larger facility where food is stored, and would break
in there, take what he needed and then continue on
and possibly even like a shed where they keep um

(17:54):
boats or things like that, or like equipment. I mean
the guy, the guy was pretty masterful with tools, being
able to get into things, and you know a lot
of times keys are stored in a place like that
where it's a facility used by a park service or
he was legendary in the area. He was known as
a well man of central Maine, as mentioned before. When
he was arrested and finally hot he was sentenced to

(18:15):
seven months in jail and probation and at the time
of this recording, he is slowly rehabilitating into society as
a brother. Yeah, what was the story though when he
when he was when he was discovered, was he just
like he had to kind of be reintegrated more like
ultimately he just was not He had not been around
people at all first, and they suspect that he may

(18:38):
uh that he may be somewhere on the Asburger's autism spectrum,
but there at this point, I don't know if that's
confirmed or if it's just the amount of time living
in a solid in such solitude that has affected his
behavior in a way that they might confuse with that.
Do we know what led him to this life? Was
it homelessness with I mean, I'm I'm interested. I don't

(19:01):
believe it was homelessness. Uh, this this decision though it
seemed like it was a snap and Pulse maybe had
just had it with people, like when Forrest Coomp just
wanted to run right right, or when everybody in the
r M video just gets out of their car. That's
a powerful moment. I always think of that moment. One
time I did try it in a bad and bad

(19:22):
traffic I got out of my car and I stood there,
but no one. No one walked out with me. So
next time you're in traffic fakes, if you happen to
see noelan matter, I get out of a car, hop
out long enough to say hi. So the thing that
sticks with me about this story is the wild Man
of Maine, is that he was a legendary being that

(19:43):
existed in this area where people would talk about him,
would say, oh, you better lock up tight, you know,
the wild Man of Maine might be coming around or
drops yeah, don't leave anything out wild man amate And
then he became a reality, and he's a myth that
became real which never pretty never hurt anybody. We mean
that we know yeah, exactly, there's no evidence. So other

(20:05):
people have disappeared fatally in national parks. And these are
people you know, who break their leg in a remote place,
take a bad fall, are murdered. Perhaps because again it's
an isolated area, droughting is huge, which ties into possibly
the Smiley Face Killer a different type of show naming

(20:27):
episode in the future. Some of these disappearances remain unexplained
to this day. There's a How Stuff Works article on
ten mysterious disappearances in national parks. Uh. Just for one example,
in a seventy three year old man named John Divine, uh,
mysteriously disappeared in the Olympic National Park in northern Washington State.

(20:49):
That's interesting because he's not the first hiker that's disappeared
from there. Over the past twenty five years. At least
four that we know of have disappeared. And yeah, and
he was with a friend when he went missing. Uh.
There there's a lot of strange stuff to his story,
that's right. So what's the cause? What? What is the
single cause or one of the causes? What are what

(21:11):
what's making this happen? What gives to answer that question? Uh?
We checked out some work recommended to us by you uh,
written by an author named David Politis. Yeah, and he
actually wrote a series of books about these disappearances of
the missing four one one series about different regions and
different situations. One is Western U s And Canada. There's

(21:34):
another one on the Eastern United States, one on North
America and beyond. Then there is one called The Devils
in the Details as well. And he's also written quite
a few books about the cryptid known as Bigfoot. Right. Yes,
that's something that in some cases will some sources feel

(21:54):
that damages his credibility, right, because for a lot of people,
if you write a thing about a cryptid, especially cryptod
of that size or that popularity, then they will tend
to look askance at any other work you do for
the record. In the Missing for one one series, while
Politis makes imply some stuff about a crypto, he never

(22:16):
says these people were clearly killed by yetti. So at
some point when Mr Politis kind of got on this
route of wow, there seemed to be a lot of
people that go missing in national parks. Yeah, a park
ranger asked him to look into it, Yes, and he
tried to find more information, and he seemed to hit

(22:38):
a couple of brick walls. So it led him further
and further down this road of trying to explain what
happens to all these people and is there some kind
of common thread that links them together? Right? Have they
nailed down a theory? So here's some possible causes for
these rashes of disappearances in no particular order. First, as
we mentioned accidents, it's gonna happen. Let's let's walk through

(23:01):
these and the pros and cons of both. So, uh,
a pro at least in terms of the likelihood of
accidents occurring. The woods are huge, many people are not
familiar with them, and you're in isolated areas where a
slip on the path can make you break your leg,
or if you have a head injury and you're in

(23:22):
the backyard of nowhere, then it is it is possible
that that that could be it for you if you
don't have a method of contacting someone else. That's why,
you know, if you go into a wilderness, you should
always always have at the very least someone back in
the civilization who expects to hear from you by a

(23:43):
certain amount of time. Yeah, but even that might not
save you because there these areas are so vast, and
one big con for the likelihood of accidents would be
that we know not all of these things are just
human error accidents. We there have been attacks, you know,
animals have attacked people, people have been murdered, you know,

(24:05):
bodies have been found mangled and stuff like that. You know,
I forgot. Actually another national park that I've been too
part of is a site in the Chattahoochee National Forest
um called Anna Ruby Falls, which is beautiful, glorious, but
you go there, there are a lot of little nooks
with signs basically saying don't step here or you will
die instantly. And you see it and you're like, yeah, yeah,

(24:28):
I would die, like that would happen. And I mean,
and it's like that all over these spots, and it's wet,
it's slippery, there's you know, a waterfall, and there's and again,
like I was talking about earlier, the infrastructure and some
of these spots not exactly up to par a lot
of times. So you've got to think that there are
opportunities for people to maybe be going into an area
after hoursing around, maybe they fell over a rail, maybe

(24:51):
you know, a slat and a bridge broke. There's a
lot of possibilities. And I know they do try to
cordon off these areas where you can't get to them,
but people can be pretty tenacious. Heck, maybe they just
got lost. You know. That's one of the most terrifying
things is how easily someone can get lost in the woods.
It's not that search parties do a bad job, it's
just that the game is rigged. It's really difficult. So

(25:23):
another thing, another likelihood possibility. Animals you knows of attack people.
There aren't that many types of large animal that would
attack something like a person. Yeah, and it's gonna vary
per region where you're where you're talking about the the
animals out in California that you might have to worry
about are going to be a little different than the

(25:44):
animals you have to worry about if you're let's say
the Everglades in Florida, like how well like talking about
a bear, perhaps we're talking about a gator. Oh yeah,
out in Colorado. I just remember Joe Rogan talking about
an attack on his dog from I believe a mountain
lion or coyote or couis wolves as well. So we

(26:05):
know those creatures exist. We know that in some cases
they will attack human beings. One of the cons to
this is that animal attacks, as far as we know,
the official record seemed to be fairly rare in comparison
to other people. And then you know, you can often
find some sort of evidence, you know, bones or something.

(26:28):
As soon as you die, no matter how you die,
as soon as you die in the wild, there's an
army of creatures, scavengers, predators, microorganisms that fall upon the
sweet sweet buffet that used to be you. Nat your
eyes and your tongue and your other soft parts. And
then other people come in and excuse me, other creatures

(26:49):
come in your pile of bones in a nifty north
face jacket. That last personal detail, I guess we didn't
need to add another. Like I was just, I was
just I got stuck on sweet sweet buffet that used
to be you. It's like that. Apparently a lot of
times they start with your feet. Oh yeah, I was

(27:09):
reading an article about like the bacteria in feet is
pleasing to carry in. I'd always heard even more disturbing,
perhaps that they start at your soft bits like your face,
your tongue, your genitals. Well, there there are other possibilities

(27:29):
besides that, which would be crime. Oh yeah, a drug
deal gone bad. This makes me think of the fantastic
episode of The Sopranos called The Pine Barrens, wherein I
kind of forget what happens exactly what the crime was,
but somebody ends up getting it. So the Pine Barrens
are actually, um, they're for too as several different things.

(27:52):
The Pinelands and New Jersey pine Lands are a National
park area in New Jersey that is about one point
one million acres, just to give you the scope of
some of these types of areas. And like I said
in the episode, the whole crux is that they are
trying to hide a body, and it's clearly considered a
pretty solid place to do a thing like that. You know, yeah,

(28:13):
you've heard the I mean you out there have probably
heard the Pine Barrens mentioned in pulp fiction and other
uh not the movie pulp fiction, just throughout pulp fiction. Uh,
when involving the mafia, especially in New Jersey. Yeah, it's
a seems like a prime spot, although that would not
account necessarily for missing visitors. You know, what were you

(28:34):
saying then about like some drug deals gone bad? Like
maybe that's where they would meet to do the drug
deal because it's such a rural area where there's maybe
not gonna be many people around. Something goes bad, nobody
ever leaves. Some an accident happens on a camping trip.
You want to fake your death or you want to
commit suicide. You want it to be a new person,
which we should do that episode here. Another thing to

(28:55):
think about here is abduction, like child abduction. Uh. There
was one ace in that article, the house stuff Works
article that tend mysterious disappearances. A kid believe it believe
his name is David Gonzalez. Uh. He was he was
going to his car to get some cookies out of
the car. Mom was like fifty yards away, and then

(29:15):
all of a sudden, kids gone. Can't find them, and
I think they saw a truck like leaving really fast
out of the park area. But anyway, it's just that
kind of thing. That kind of thing must happen, right.
It seems like a perfect place to target someone who's
isolated and not in their own element. Right. And the

(29:37):
thing here is that whatever these causes, maybe paul I
D's uh does not specifically trace it to one thing
yet that they say they're narrowing down suspects. Whatever the
cause of this may be. Uh. This author and his
supporters argue that there are clusters of information here three
types of clusters, one in cluster in terms of geography, like,

(30:00):
for instance, UH, Yosemite National Park is one of the
clusters that he sites, with forty six something disappearances occurring somewhere.
The bodies were later found somewhere nobody was recovered. He
also says that there are clusters in terms of chronology.
Certain times of the year or certain years people seem

(30:21):
to discipline more frequently, and then there's a type of
person who disappears more frequently, the very young, the elderly,
And according to these books, UH, many times when people
are recovered they have some of the same um. They
have some things in common. For instance, they have wounds,

(30:42):
light wounds are clothing storn. They have little to know
memory of the event. They're located further than one would
imagine they could travel on their own. That being said, UH,
Paul IDs believes there is a conspiracy afoot of some sort,
that the National Park is the National Park Service is

(31:03):
not being on the up and up right. Yeah, When
when he tried to get more information, as we mentioned earlier,
from the National Park System through Freedom of Information Act requests.
He seemed to be stonewalled a bit, at least that's
what he thought at first, until he realized, Wait, there
isn't a lot of good record keeping when it comes

(31:24):
to missing people in these areas. Um, everything as simple
as names and dates and times. It's just not It wasn't,
at least at the time being collected. And he also
claims that he had several Freedom of Information Act requests
that were denied when when he asked for more information.

(31:46):
At this point, uh, At this point, this author is
continuing their investigation into the possible causes of of these disappearances.
I will say that, given that there are more than
a thousands or so cases that he has catalogs, I

(32:07):
would say it's difficult to imagine that these are all
attributable to a single cause. I would go so far
as to say it's impossible that they're all the exact
same thing. I'm hesitant to say impossible, but I would
be surprised. I would buy a lot and probably I
would buy a lottery ticket. Yes, if it turned out

(32:29):
that kind of math works. So at this point, you no,
I don't buy That is like a rule of ben
bowl rule. No, I'll buy a lottery ticket from someone
who's a present. Fun. Now, have you ever gotten lottery
tickets as a stocking stuffer? I have me too. It's
really sad stocking stuff. Well, when you get a roll

(32:51):
of them and you win, you win another ticket from
a role Anyway, I'm sorry. The potential is there. Okay,
it may be tiny, but potential. So yeah, so we're
at a point now where this investigation, led by Polites continues.
Some of the more skeptical in uh the the world

(33:13):
of this conversation have pointed out that, of course there's
a reason it's called the wilderness. People get lost, people
get hurt, people miscalculate, people can unfortunately die, and that
can be a completely mundane explanation. However, Polites and other
investigators as well believe that there is something more afoot,

(33:37):
that there is a cover up on the part of
Uncle Sam. So, without claiming to know what could or
could not be causing these disappearances, instead, the author does
say that there is an active stonewalling occurring. Is that
the crazy user, Yeah, that's a that's a very good point.

(33:59):
We want to know what you think do people disappear
in national parks? Is there? What do you think the
cause of it is? Do you think that there could
be some sort of cryptid involved To me, that's a
little bit tough to conjecture, especially if it's something that
would be the size of a primate, you know what

(34:20):
I mean? Can I give you a story about that
bench lead people's minds down this road here on the
website Vistamic Vistramic journeys dot com. This is a group
of people who have looked at the Missing four on
one books and kind of taken exact places where people

(34:40):
allegedly went missing and then taking a panoramic photo of
the spot where they supposedly went missing. And there's one
story on here about a dude named Christopher Tompkins who
was on an isolated road in Georgia walking behind several
other guys. They were working together, and one of the

(35:01):
other gentlemen claims to have turned around and Christopher was
no longer there. As they were walking along this road,
they ended up finding parts of his clothing. One of
his boots was where like right behind them. They found
some of his clothing on a barbed wire fence a
little ways away, and they found some more of his clothing,
another boot even further away from that, And this all

(35:24):
took place within a matter of minutes less than that.
And I know that's one of those situations where it
makes me kind of go, well, how in the heck
did that happen without something really big either carrying him
away unless he just got super excited and ran like
a large bird for instance, maybe or a drone. Yes,
the possibilities stretched forward. You we would like to hear

(35:47):
from you, So let us know. Do you think these
people disappeared due to mundane causes? Do you think that
there is something um, something more organized at work. And
let's also keep in mind that given the in terms
of the number of people who attend these parks, relatively

(36:07):
few so far as we know, are actually going missing.
So let us know. And then if you just have
a story about something creepy that you have found in
a national park, were encountered, and you are comfortable telling us,
we'd love to hear that too, it might make it
to the air. Speaking of listeners, I think it's time

(36:29):
for she shot at Conners. Our first shout out comes
from Augustina who says someone from Panama would like you
to talk about the Panama papers. Also a shout out
would be cool. Shout out to you, Augustina, and we
are on act surprised. Yes, as soon as it came out,
you know, all three of us were just attached to

(36:51):
our computers. Gasp. Second shout out goes to Evelyn Raoul,
a photographer who listens to the show while she's re
touching images. Quote, I think Tyson stole your opening. Go
listen to the opening of Star Talk. It sounds suspiciously similar. Mmmmmmm, yeah,
I don't know. I haven't checked that out, but I
appreciate the tip and retouching images. Huh changing history once

(37:16):
the thing about Stalin the kids stays in the picture.
Of course, we're kidding evil and big shout out to
you and thank you so much writing I'm gonna check
out this Star Talk. The start talking out pretty about
it is good and I don't recall the theme, but
I need to give another listen. It's new to me.
You guys know, I'm I'm not out and about. Uh So.
Our last shout out of the day of the week

(37:37):
really goes to Simon. Simon wrote in uh to say
commenting on our A M A and above Top Secret.
So is us Gully, Harvey Oswald and the Illuminates with
their breakout hit Roswell. That ends well because we released
a picture of the four of us and we thought, hey,

(37:57):
this looks kind of like a band. Yeah, we were
around Scully like she was the lead and we were
the Illuminates. We're working on the mixtape. Yeah, simon, you
know we're working on the mixtape. You can pay for
it in uh, stolen Nazi gold or ben bucks or
ben bucks. Those two things, well, you gotta convert your
stolen Nazi gold to ben bucks. I mean, that's just

(38:20):
how the economy, the exchange right in your face. Actually
it's it's rigged. I can't believe we started out with
such an idealistic currency and then three weeks in we've
become the monsters we were fighting in the first become
the monsters we fought in the first place. Yeah, we're
mostly kidding about that, but if you would like a

(38:41):
shout out, let us know. If you'd like to see
that picture, you can find us on Twitter and it's
on our Facebook as well. I believe both of those
are conspiracy stuff. And if you want to hear every
podcast that Noel, Matt and I have ever ever done,
then check out our website Stuff they Don't Want You
to Know dot Com where you can hear those podcasts
for breath. And that's the end of this classic episode.

(39:03):
If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,
you can get into contact with us in a number
of different ways. One of the best is to give
us a call. Our number is one eight three three
std w y t K. If you don't want to
do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at I heart radio dot com. Stuff

(39:25):
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