December 11, 2025 • 40 mins
If you're not from Nova Scotia, you may have never heard of Africville -- it was a small community in Halifax. The larger government of Halifax seemed content to pretend Africville simply didn't exist. After the infamous Halifax Explosion of the early 1900s, the government changed their tactic, and aggressively conspired to erase Africville from history.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Friends and neighbors.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome to our classic episode. If you
were not from Nova Scotia, you maybe never heard of
a place called Africville. We sure did not, oh until
this episode.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Well sir, yeah, and what we learned from this episode
is that it's a small community in Halifax that the
larger government of Halifax seemed just fine with them pretending
didn't exist. Yeah, it existed for about one hundred and
twenty years and then a tragedy occurred and zilch.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So what happened, whether or whence Africville, Nova Scotia, That
is the subject of our classic episode. Thank you for
joining us. Let's roll the tape.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff. They don't want you to know.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
A production of our grading. Hello and welcome back to
the show. My name is Noel.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Our writer die compatriot Matt Frederick is on adventures, but
will be returning post haste. They called me Ben. We're
joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control decades.
Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Peak
behind the curtain here as we begin Mission Control, Noel
(01:38):
and I have all returned from a vacation of sorts. Now.
As you know, Noel, despite our constant haranguing, mission Control
prefers to be the non audible power behind the stuff
they don't want you to know, thrown but assures.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, Ben, that phrase literally flashed across my mind before
you said it. Paul is indeed the power behind the throne.
I love that you said that. That's you read my mind. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So we want you to know that. Paul has assured
us that he had adventures of his own stories for
another day. And Noel, I wanted to check in with
you before we continue. How is your time?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Was your time off? It was good? Oh? Thanks Ben? Yeah.
I mean, like I've mentioned before, I just moved into
a new place and had been kind of, you know,
doing it in dribs and drabs getting it all set
up and got some furniture delivered. But I was able
to really focus and get the majority of the place
really livable. And I'm speaking to you from my now
fully ensconced studio with all my little toys and guitars,
(02:40):
and I got a drum kit in here now on
a couch and a living room's nice. My bedroom still
full of boxes, but yeah, no, I just go in
there to sleep. So it's like it's I don't feel
compelled to hurry along with that one.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
How about you, Ben, Yeah, I've had some you don't like, Paul,
have had some story for Another Day adventures, some of
which might come into play in future episodes, and don't
want to spoil quite yet. But it's all fine, because
everybody emerged more or less.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
One segue I was thinking about for this episode is
that when we move physically, we also move symbolically, and
it's a powerful act. It makes us aware of how
much stuff we have and how much stuff we've lost.
And as any longtime listener of our show knows, fellow
conspiracy realists, you are aware by now that the human
(03:34):
species has a profound and troubling history of losing communities, cities,
entire civilizations sometimes, and these sometimes become the subject of
later legends and myths, only to be rediscovered centuries or
millennia later. Today, we're exploring something different because our collective
(03:55):
history is also full of cities or communities or neighborhoods
that went missing, not due to pandemics, not due to
natural disasters or so called acts of God, but instead
due to purposeful acts of human beings. This is the
story of a destroyed community, and unlike the story of
the se Techaw or the City of Troy or other
(04:16):
communities of old, this story is much much more recent
than most people would like to admit, and odds are
it's safe to assume that a lot of people haven't
heard of this. We didn't hear this story, Noel, until
we received an excellent email from fellow conspiracy realist Looping Band.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, so why don't we get right into it?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yes, here are the facts.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So, as you hear Ben say at the beginning of
every one of our episodes, we know and have seen
firsthand that history is riddled with unexplained events, and often
history is also riddled with kind of crappy, obscured events,
things that authorities, people in power, from the federal government
(05:05):
to your local school you know, superintendent, would rather keep
you in the dark about. In the United States, a
great example would be this idea of Black Wall Street
and the Tulsa massacre of nineteen twenty one. Ben, this
is something that you turned me onto, this idea of
black wall streets, and something I was very much not
(05:27):
familiar with. But a lot of people across the planet
and the US itself only learned of this massacre because
of the series Watchmen on HBO that we've talked about
at length on the show, and the Tulsa massacre plays
a very important role in the story. Ben, can you
tell us a little bit about what went down?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, and no, I think this is a great way
to get into the crazy part of today's topic. So
here's what happened on a high level. After World War One, Tulsa, Oklahoma,
became known for its affluent African American community. This community
thrived against massive, brutal, systemic oppression. Most of the ten
(06:08):
thousand black residents of Tulsa lived in one neighborhood, the
Greenwood District, and because of its incredibly successful business district,
it became known as Black Wall Street. But astute listeners,
you'll notice that we are speaking in past tense. So, Noel,
what happened to Black Wall Street? Why aren't we speaking
(06:30):
in present tense?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Now? Yeah, it's exactly what you described at the top
of the show ben it was essentially eradicated from existence
because of the influence of those that would prefer it
have never existed in the first place. On May the
thirtieth of nineteen twenty one, a young black man named
Dick Roland was writing in an elevator in the Drexel
(06:51):
building at Third in Maine there in Tulsa, along with
the elevator operator, because that was a thing back then,
and that person was a white woman by the name
of Sarah Page. And the actual details of what is
alleged to have occurred between these two people very There's
(07:12):
a lot of hearsay, but ultimately we are told of
accounts of some sort of incident and this spread like
wildfire within Tulsa's white community. And it's the same way
like you see now, you know, especially when it's negative,
people are so quick to spread these fake news stories.
(07:35):
And I say fake news not in the loaded way
that maybe is used rhetorically by certain members of our government,
but actual fake news that's written and intended to obscure
or to deceive. And if it's negative or it's about
if it's something that supports your narrative, people are very
quick to just boom, click share. You gotta be really careful.
(07:57):
You got to do your homework before you become that person.
You don't want to be that person. But a lot
of people here in Tulsa were that person and spread
this story all across the community. And every time it
was told, like a like a sick game of telephone,
it became worse and more exaggerated and more egregious, the
details more lurid, and the police White, of course, arrested
(08:22):
Dick roll In the very next day, and that same day,
May thirty first, the Tulsa Tribune ran and absolutely bonkers
and of course biased a report of the events.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, So in the elevator incident, the bare bones report
seems to be that this young man could have done
something as simple as accidentally bump into the elevator operator
or he stepped on her foot or something like that.
But as you said, Noel, over a span of just
(08:55):
a few hours, really this turned into like a a
full on lurid story of assault. And this sparked a
confrontation between armed groups gathered around the courthouse. The local
authorities barricaded Roland at the top floor of the courthouse,
and these groups, as you can imagine, were divided by race,
(09:17):
but they were also divided by aim. The white mob,
which was getting bigger and bigger as time went on,
wanted to murder Roland that day, but they were met
by a group of twenty five armed black men, many
of whom were veterans from World War One. These veterans
were not antagonizing this mob, It's important to note this. Instead,
(09:39):
they were going to the local authorities, the sheriff, and
they said, you know, there's a very real and immediate
threat of this mob taking this kid and torturing him
and then killing them. We are here to help you.
The sheriff said no, and then then we can only
imagine the sheriff had to eat his words because that
(10:00):
white mob turned their attention away from the courthouse and
they tried to break into the National Guard armory nearby.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, and then you had these two kind of contingents colliding.
When a reformed group of seventy five armed black men returned,
the white mob, which was about fifteen hundred strong, clearly
outnumbering the black group, and the group seeking to protect
Roland had to retreat to the Greenwood District, that area
(10:29):
where many of these affluent black members of the community lived.
So In June first of nineteen twenty one, members of
the white mob, along with so many hangers on and
opportunists and looters, white looters, sacked the Greenwood District and
attempted to completely eradicate it, burning into the ground. The
(10:50):
governor at the time, Robertson, declared a state of martial law.
This is all sounding early familiar. Unfortunately, given the current
state of a events here in the United States. The
National Guard was called in. They assisted firemen and putting
out the flames. They arrested some of the African Americans
(11:12):
from these absolutely you know, bloodthirsty vigilantes what they referred
to themselves as, as though they were seeking some sort
of out you know, wild west outlawed twisted justice. And
then they imprisoned every single black resident of Tulsa that
hadn't already been arrested. That's over six thousand people who
(11:35):
were held against their will for up to eight days
at a convention center on the fair grounds of the town.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's right, and needless to say, these people who were arrested,
who were you know, innocent of crimes, were denied, you know,
the basic things one would expect incarceration in theory, you know, food, water,
restroom facilities, and so on. Let's look at the aftermath.
All of this means that within only twenty four hours
(12:08):
after this pandemonium erupted, thirty five city blocks were in
total ruin. Over eight hundred people were treated for injury,
which means of course that many more were injured and
unable or unwilling to seek medical attention. The death toll
was estimated at the time to be thirty six, but
(12:28):
today historians believe around three hundred people died, if not more.
Thousands lost their livelihoods and homes this massacre. Oddly enough,
even though thousands of people had their lives rereparably damaged,
this massacre was not really reported in the national media,
definitely not an accurate way, and today it remains one
(12:51):
of the worst again officially acknowledged incidents of racial violence
in US history. But it's just one example.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, and there are others, and one of them is
the topic of today's episode, and it's something we like,
we said at the top of the show, neither of
us were familiar with a community in Halifax, Nova Scotia,
known as Africville.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
So what happened to Africville. We'll explore this after a
word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. If
you were like us and you're from the United States,
odds are you may have never heard of Africville. Like
(13:37):
you said, No, this community was located in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.
It was founded in the early eighteen hundreds. It's often
described as one of the first free black communities outside
of the African continent. By nineteen sixty, it was raised
to the ground.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Series.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
It didn't happen as quickly as the Tulsa massacre, but
it happened.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So what gives?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
What's the what's the history of this community?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, I've seen it referred to as well as as
like a settlement, which is interesting because I mean, it
really was sort of a very self sufficient community, but
they did depend on some services from the city of Halifax.
We'll get into what that relationship kind of deteriorated into
(14:33):
in just a second. But from eighteen forty to eighteen sixty,
Nova Scotia was actually the last stop on the underground railroad.
So while Africville was certainly a better place for many
than where they had come from. It was still poor
and still quite oppressed. The local government never provided them
(14:54):
with basic amenities sewage, you know, water, electricity and snow plowing,
because let's not forget this is in the Great White North.
And the community reached its population peaked by nineteen seventeen.
Only about four hundred people lived there during the time
of a very important event in the history of Halifax
(15:16):
Nova Scotia, the Halifax explosion, which took place on December
sixth of nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
No, yeah, this is insane. So it's a tail of
two ships instead of the tail of two cities.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
The SS mont Blanc is a French cargo ship. It's
carrying hazmat hazardous materials we call them today. It's carrying
a bunch of explosives. It collides with a Norwegian vessel
called the ss Imo or Emo Imo. I hope it
wasn't the Emo, but that would be funny though. What happened, though,
(15:51):
was anything but humorous. When this friendship collides with this
Norwegian ship, it happens in a straight connecting Upper Hall
Facts Harbor to something called the Bedford Basin. A fire
breaks out on the French ship it ignites the cargo,
and this causes a massive explosion, the equivalent of two
point nine kilo tons of T and T. It kills
(16:14):
around two thousand people and at least nine thousand other
people are injured. Africville is located on the southern shore
of the Bedford Basin, and due to topology in the area,
it's partially shielded from the direct blast, but that doesn't
mean it's completely shielded. Multiple structures in this area are
(16:37):
destroyed or so heavily damaged that they're unusable. And you know,
to the point about self sufficiency that you made earlier, Nol,
it makes sense because a lot of these buildings were
constructed by the people who are living in them.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That's right. And I saw a great documentary If you
just google Africville on YouTube, it's the longest thing that
comes up. It's like thirty five minute documentary that the
Canadian Broadcasting Service may. It feels like it was in
the late seventies or something. It's got that look, but
it starts off interviewing like multi generational families that lived
in Efricville and like grew up there. Because again it
was nineteen seventeen. It had a history, and people say
(17:13):
when people ask you, the question put to these former residents,
when people ask you where you're from, what do you say,
and they say Africville. They don't say Canada, they don't
say Nova Scotia, they don't say Halifax. They say Africville.
Because it really had this identity all of its own,
and they were proud of it. They were proud of
their community. They like you said, Ben, they did the
(17:35):
best that they could with what they had. They built
their own homes. But in the greater community outside of Africville,
it was unfairly characterized as a slum. There was this
kind of notion that it was hated by the members
of the community. But when you actually talk to people,
and the people have seen interviewed in this documentary, no
(17:56):
one says that. It's just the people in power that
say that. It's a narrative they try I had to
create to justify what they ultimately what they ultimately did,
which we'll get to. So the local government in question
here had already begun arguing the community should be destroyed
to make room for industrial development. Oh, all of a sudden,
(18:17):
they realized they've got some prime real estate and something
better to do with it that could maybe enrich the
community more in their eyes in a way that was meaningful.
And so in the wake of this disaster, the people
of the community didn't get anything in the way of
recovery assistance. They also got no police or fire protection,
and they still had to pay taxes. And other parts
(18:38):
of the city, yeah, received tons of help in terms of, like,
you know, recovering from this horrific event. And after the explosion,
the city of Halifax itself continued what you could describe
as systematic efforts to make Africville a bad place to
live and then demonizing it, you know, with this rhetoric
and this idea of it being a slum and we
(18:58):
have to do something about it. But it was basically
like them commenting on what they themselves had wrought upon
this community, right.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm being too charitable with could be described
as systematic effort there, because it is, and it was
to dovetail in the earlier point you were making about
the discrepancy between what the people who lived their experience
(19:26):
and what the city's official line was and had always
been just follow the money, you know what I mean,
whether it's a war, whether it's a moral crusade. Follow
the money. Ultimately, there's a financial motive there, and this
was an opportunity. I want to be very clear. No
one's saying that the Halifax explosion itself was planned or
(19:50):
you know, even meant to in any way effect the
people of Affortville, but the city of Halifax certainly took
advantage of the opportunity. They started aggressively making this a
bad place to live. Beforehand, they were degrading Africville through
(20:13):
what I would describe as willful, purposeful neglect. But now
they started being more aggressive and assertive and belligerent about it.
They built a hospital for World War two veterans, but
not just any World War two veterans, specifically World War
two veterans with various contagious diseases. And there's no real
(20:34):
hygienic practice at the time. So this exposes the community
to this. But that's not the only thing they were
exposed to.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, it's like adding insult to injury. Halifax decided, oh,
this would be a great site for a toxic waste dump. Wow,
they're really laying and on.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Thick and you can see the residents, one of whom
we'll meet later. In this episode, the residents often had
to go through this dump for honestly, just scavenge to
find things to sell.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
It's it's very rough situation.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That's right. And there actually is footage of this, all
of this in the documentary that I mentioned. I highly
recommend checking it out because it's all you know, you
can see the dump. It's this is not hyperbole. It's
literally a sludgy, toxic, you know mess. Also, you know,
it's it's sort of a catch all dump. You got
your toxic stuff, you got your like, you know, scrap metal,
(21:33):
you know. But you're right, I mean they were so
put upon and unable to turn a living people were
you know, there's there's a there's a gentleman in the
in the in the in the dock who says, I
was seeing my brothers, you know, scavenging in the dump
every day and it was just you know, painful, and
that level of pain led to folks starting to just leave.
(21:55):
It's time to move on, and you know, it was
it was when the rats started showing up that things
really took a turn. The gentleman you mentioned, ben Eddie Carvery,
who grew up there. There's a quote we have from
him that is pretty disturbing and it really gives you
a sense of what it would have been like to
live in this place at the time.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, Eddie Carvery, who is in you can see a
multiple documentaries. He grew up there, as you said, Noel,
and he witnessed first hand the successful efforts of Halifax
to depopulate Africville. In this quote describing the rats, he says,
the hospital would just dump their raw garbage on the dump,
(22:41):
bloody body parts, blankets and everything. We were subject to that,
and then they would burn this dump every so often.
There would be walls of fire and toxic smoke, and
we used to run through that fire to get the
metals before they melted because we scavenged the dump. We
had to. You had to do that too survive.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
In a way.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
You know, what this reminds me of is the practice
of ship breaking. There are places in you know, everybody's
kind of aware of large water going vessels, cargo ships
and stuff. When those things are decommissioned, sometimes they are
physically broken down by people who like the boat is
(23:22):
run aground, and then people have to go through and
scavenge and break it down. And they're like paid per
kilo and typically will end up contracting horrible medical conditions
from exposure to stuff like this. I mean this may
be even worse because of the burning, right, Like the
smoke means that you don't have to be at the site.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, you get a wicked case of tetanus or worse,
you know. And yeah, like we were alluding to earlier,
the rats just became an absolute nightmare, an utter infestation
that the population ballooning, and Halifax was having none of
it in terms of helping. The residents of Affickville found
(24:07):
themselves in just an absolute, like nightmarish perfect storm for
a plague. I mean really just absolutely biblical horrible stuff.
When the rats began to infiltrate white neighborhoods. Mind you,
the city finally stepped in to address the problem by
(24:27):
dousing the dump at Africville in rat poison. Cool. But
now it's like, how do you make a toxic waste
dump worse? You'd cover it in rat poison? Shit, I
don't know. This is just this is a real, real
saga here.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Meanwhile, the larger government of Canada is completely ignoring what's
happening here. By the way, and we're not unless we
sound like we're picking on Canada. This isn't a more
obscure case or was it the time, But make no mistake,
things like this are happening in multiple countries around the world,
right and and to your point, now the population is
(25:09):
breathing this poison in Uh. You know, numerous people are
saying like even if we even if we try to
avoid the dump, this is still getting all over our
air or clothing. And now we see something that happens
in a lot of small communities with exposure to these
kind of chemicals. Uh, the real dangerous effects are things
(25:31):
that people might not have seen at the time, even
the people spreading the rat poison. It's it's a it's
a problem that crops up like agent orange years after
the fact, right years after exposure, we start noticing people
getting cancer.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, it reminds me of the Santa Susana nuclear research
site in the episode we did not terribly long ago. Yeah,
you don't find out about that stuff until way later,
and at the time you don't really associate it with
with that with your with your with your environment. At
this time especially might not have even been something that
people were widely aware of, but there it is. And
(26:06):
so when the rats am the toxic dump weren't enough
to get residents to leave, Halifax decided that the area
was officially an uninhabitable slum, which is a term that
they're already using just in you know, passing referring to
the place like with these meetings, and the city began
(26:27):
to just tear the neighborhood down and force the remaining
residents to relocate. In sixty four mainteen sixty four, the
neighborhood was entirely demolished and members of the community received
You know, it's like if if a developer comes in
and wants to buy your house, you know that might
be one deal. This is going to be, you know,
(26:50):
based on all kinds of factors, and it's going to
be a variety of different amounts of compensation, likely not
fair at all. And some of the houses were bulldozed
with people still inside them.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, think about that. So we always hear that old
figure of speech in real estate what matters location and
location and location in that order. So the City of
Halifax has done everything it can to make this location terrible.
So if they pay people or compensate them for their
property based on the market value of the property. Well,
(27:26):
that market value has been destroyed. And bulldozing houses with
people inside them doesn't sound like something that should be
happening in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
But there we are.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
This has been that. Here's where it gets crazy part.
But this is all factual. None of this is speculation
zero percent. We're going to pause for word from our sponsor,
and then let's explore the aftermath because the story of
Africville is not quite over.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
And we're back. Since Africville was destroyed, Eddie Carvery, former resident,
began protesting. He started his protest on the original site
of the neighborhood in nineteen seventy, living in what later
was renamed to Seaview Park, and he stayed there on
(28:24):
and off for over twenty five years before making international news.
When G seven visited Halifax in nineteen ninety five, the
city tried to get rid of him, as well as
his brother Victor.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah. Yeah, so the Carvery brothers, Eddie and Victor have
been have been struggling with a lot of things. You know,
if you see the if you see some of the
video footage of the Eddie is definitely sort of the
last man standing in the protest and has been waging
(28:58):
this protest for as you said, decades, and at times
he's been sleeping rough just in the area because he
wants to keep it there in the in the location,
the former location of Africville. And eventually the brothers did
move and lived more off of the site of Africville,
(29:22):
but they continued to travel to the community and protest
like literally pretty much every day where the community school
once stood. If you want to learn more about Eddie Carvery,
you can check out these documentaries we've mentioned. You can
also check out John Tattrey's work. It's called The Hermit
(29:43):
of Africville. It was published in twenty ten. And that's
to me, that's one of the craziest things. The timeline
about this history tried to forget this for a long time.
You know, we're looking back at at the turn of
the nineteenth century and now we're well into the twenty
(30:04):
first century and this is still continuing. People haven't been
compensated for their land, let alone their medical conditions. Eddie
Carvery was for a large part of his entire life,
he was just trying to get people to listen to
what was happening, which speaks to I think it speaks
(30:24):
highly to his character, but it is a resounding condemnation
of the government of Halifax.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I just want to restate too. I think we said
it at the top pretty well, but just when these
black settlers came over, you know, to this part of Canada,
it wasn't like they immediately, you know, created this settlement.
They were forced to because they weren't accepted in the
rest of the community in the surrounding area, so they
(30:52):
had to They were kind of pushed onto what would
be considered less desirable land. And then of course when
the tide turned and all of a sudden, you know,
there's a use for this land. It's like, okay, sorry,
I know we're the ones who put you here in
the first place, but you know, we need what you're
living on, and we're going to make your life a
(31:13):
living hell. And there's really great writing about this as
well in Canadian Museum for Human Rights website, just kind
of a timeline and the story of Africville, And you know,
I just want to paint a picture too of like
what life really was like when it was at its best. Everyone.
You know, again, this is like a long standing community,
and people described it as, you know, feeling no sense
(31:36):
of isolation. There's a quote on this Canadian Museum for
Human Rights site from a former Affricville resident saying, quote,
you weren't isolated at any time living in Africville. You
always felt at home. The doors were always open. That
is one of the most important things that has stayed
with me throughout my life. And you know, you can
see photographs of like the Country Store, and just like
(31:59):
it just seemed kind of like, at the time, an
idyllic situation that they kind of had to create for themselves.
And yeah, some of the houses are kind of ramshackle
and look a little bit like shanty kind of houses,
but it was obvious that they took great pride in
it and that they did the repairs with everything they
had at their disposal and did the best they could.
(32:19):
And then the idea of demonizing it as being some
kind of slum is just a real misnomer to me.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And you know, Halifax has acknowledged Africville after its destruction,
primarily in twenty ten, the same year the Hermit of
Africaville published, the Mayor of Halifax officially apologized to the
former residents of the neighborhood. You know, this is an
(32:50):
important active symbolism, right. This was Mayor Peter Kelly. He said,
you lost your homes, your church, all the polics and
which you gathered with your family and friends to share
and mark the milestones of your lives. For all of that,
we apologized. But here's what he did. So they did
put some money behind us. The government of Halifax promised
(33:15):
three million dollars to build a replica church and what
they called an interpretive center. But the people who are
at the crowd when this apology was presented and this
funding was announced, they were loudly complaining. They said, you know,
nobody asked us we were residents of Africville or we
were descended from people from Africville. This settlement, I don't know.
(33:38):
It seems like too many people it was a token
gesture because nobody who lost their home is getting any
further compensation for that loss. You know, I can see
that being a valid point. I think it's all too
easy for people who aren't involved in a situation to say, well,
acknowledgment is important and something's better than nothing. But is
(34:01):
that a symbolic statement? You know, more than an actual one.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
No, I absolutely think you're right, Ben. It's also to
kind of too little, too late, you know, and you know,
in a lot of ways. But in again, there is
sort of a silver lining here. Even beyond that. In
twenty twelve, the Africville Church was rebuilt and Carvery moved
his protest to that area, and Carvery, against all odds,
(34:27):
continues his protest today.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, And to be fair, we don't know how long
this will last, but at the time of this recording,
he's still protesting. The takeaway from this is that not
every conspiracy is, you know, someone trying to hide space
age technology. Not every conspiracy is necessarily, you know, like
(34:52):
a secret genetic research program or cryptid or paranormal activity.
All too often conspiracies are real, and they're motivated by
things like racism or real estate. Right, they're motivated by
a profit of some sort, and that seems to be
the case with Africville. And as we said at the top,
(35:15):
at this point the story continues. We don't know whether
there will be further action by the government of Halifax,
you know, the president administration or a future administration, And
we don't know whether there will be any sort of
further compensation for the survivors of the neighborhood, of the community,
(35:35):
and we pass the torch to you. Thank you as
always for tuning in what other cities or communities have
been destroyed in this manner let us know about the
hidden history in your neck of the Global woods, because
one of the strangest and most disturbing things about these
sorts of stories is we can guarantee you most people
(35:56):
have not heard of them, and that's probably by design.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, you know, let's not forget that. Like the definition.
I had to kind of look this up because we
get so wrapped up in the buzzworthiness of conspiracy. And
again the way it's all, it's been demonized and used
this kind of a thought terminating cliche as you say, Ben,
But a conspiracy, at the end of the day, is
a secret plan made by a group to do something
unlawful or harmful. Uh, And that's that's what this is.
(36:21):
This is, you know, cut and dry conspiracy, not theory.
And but you know is that then you have to
bring up the question of what is lawful if they
voted unanimously to do this, you know, on a on
a city council, a government body. Is it lawful? Whose laws?
You know? I don't know. I don't want to sound
(36:42):
like I'm grandstanding here, but I certainly think that if
a closer look was was paid to this, you could
definitely find some evidence of wrongdoing and of this not
being lawful. It reminds me of the way Native Americans
were treated, you know, like they're they have this land
that they settled, and then all of a sudden, oh, sorry,
(37:04):
we own the land. This notion of owning the land
is such a you know, capitalistic kind of idea, and
it's something that's just doesn't feel very natural. But yet
here we are, so yeah, I don't know. I'm interested
to see where this goes. I'm not particularly hopeful that
anything positive is going to come of it, but I'm
(37:27):
really glad we found out about it, and want to
thank the listener for letting us know. Because you don't
think about this stuff happening in Canada. You think of
Canada as being like this, you know, really positive, hunky
Dory place, neighbors to the north, the kinder gentler, you know,
weed smoking, you know, hockey players. But there's tons of
racism in Canada.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I mean you can look it up and see, Like
I saw a video of someone being attacked on a
bus in Canada by some racist gentleman, and it's everywhere.
It's insidious and it's not something that is to go
away without you know, shedding the light on it.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
The Highway of Tears, the forced dissimilation of First Nations peoples.
Yet the list goes on. You know, no country is perfect,
and it's our It's part of I think our purpose
as people living today, regardless of what country we live in,
(38:23):
to hold those in power accountable.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
We would like to.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Hear your stories, let us know about your local hidden history.
Wherever you're at in the world. You can find us
on Facebook. You can find us on Instagram. You can
find us on Twitter. We like to recommend our Facebook
group Here's where it gets crazy, where you can find
our favorite part of the show, the most important part,
that's your fellow listeners. You can also while you're online,
(38:48):
find us as individuals.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, you sure can if you wish. I am at
how Now Noel Brown on Instagram and you can.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Find me on Twitter at Ben BULLINHSW. You can also
find me on Instagram at Ben Bolin and of course
if you have complaints, corrections or general gripes, we have
a dedicated email line for that. That is Jonathan Strickland
at iHeartMedia dot com. But we also have a phone number,
don't we we do.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
It's one eight three three std WYTK. Leave us a message.
You might be surprised to hear that this segment of
our show is going to be making a stunning reappearance
in a very real way very soon, meaning that you
could be your voice could be a part of Stuff
they Don't Want You to Know episodes. It's a three
(39:37):
minute time limit. You can call back and continue and
we just stitch them together and just you know, if
you don't want us to use your name, just make
sure to let us know. But we we love to
hear from you and really enjoyed doing the listener mail
episodes and looking forward to bringing that back very soon.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
And as I like to say, if none of that
quite bad for badgers, you can only send us an email.
It's a good old fashion one.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
We are conspiracy se it iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they
(40:20):
Don't Want You to Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Friends and neighbors.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome to our classic episode. If you
were not from Nova Scotia, you maybe never heard of
a place called Africville. We sure did not, oh until
this episode.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Well sir, yeah, and what we learned from this episode
is that it's a small community in Halifax that the
larger government of Halifax seemed just fine with them pretending
didn't exist. Yeah, it existed for about one hundred and
twenty years and then a tragedy occurred and zilch.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So what happened, whether or whence Africville, Nova Scotia, That
is the subject of our classic episode. Thank you for
joining us. Let's roll the tape.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff. They don't want you to know.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
A production of our grading. Hello and welcome back to
the show. My name is Noel.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Our writer die compatriot Matt Frederick is on adventures, but
will be returning post haste. They called me Ben. We're
joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control decades.
Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Peak
behind the curtain here as we begin Mission Control, Noel
(01:38):
and I have all returned from a vacation of sorts. Now.
As you know, Noel, despite our constant haranguing, mission Control
prefers to be the non audible power behind the stuff
they don't want you to know, thrown but assures.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, Ben, that phrase literally flashed across my mind before
you said it. Paul is indeed the power behind the throne.
I love that you said that. That's you read my mind. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So we want you to know that. Paul has assured
us that he had adventures of his own stories for
another day. And Noel, I wanted to check in with
you before we continue. How is your time?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Was your time off? It was good? Oh? Thanks Ben? Yeah.
I mean, like I've mentioned before, I just moved into
a new place and had been kind of, you know,
doing it in dribs and drabs getting it all set
up and got some furniture delivered. But I was able
to really focus and get the majority of the place
really livable. And I'm speaking to you from my now
fully ensconced studio with all my little toys and guitars,
(02:40):
and I got a drum kit in here now on
a couch and a living room's nice. My bedroom still
full of boxes, but yeah, no, I just go in
there to sleep. So it's like it's I don't feel
compelled to hurry along with that one.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
How about you, Ben, Yeah, I've had some you don't like, Paul,
have had some story for Another Day adventures, some of
which might come into play in future episodes, and don't
want to spoil quite yet. But it's all fine, because
everybody emerged more or less.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
One segue I was thinking about for this episode is
that when we move physically, we also move symbolically, and
it's a powerful act. It makes us aware of how
much stuff we have and how much stuff we've lost.
And as any longtime listener of our show knows, fellow
conspiracy realists, you are aware by now that the human
(03:34):
species has a profound and troubling history of losing communities, cities,
entire civilizations sometimes, and these sometimes become the subject of
later legends and myths, only to be rediscovered centuries or
millennia later. Today, we're exploring something different because our collective
(03:55):
history is also full of cities or communities or neighborhoods
that went missing, not due to pandemics, not due to
natural disasters or so called acts of God, but instead
due to purposeful acts of human beings. This is the
story of a destroyed community, and unlike the story of
the se Techaw or the City of Troy or other
(04:16):
communities of old, this story is much much more recent
than most people would like to admit, and odds are
it's safe to assume that a lot of people haven't
heard of this. We didn't hear this story, Noel, until
we received an excellent email from fellow conspiracy realist Looping Band.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, so why don't we get right into it?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yes, here are the facts.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So, as you hear Ben say at the beginning of
every one of our episodes, we know and have seen
firsthand that history is riddled with unexplained events, and often
history is also riddled with kind of crappy, obscured events,
things that authorities, people in power, from the federal government
(05:05):
to your local school you know, superintendent, would rather keep
you in the dark about. In the United States, a
great example would be this idea of Black Wall Street
and the Tulsa massacre of nineteen twenty one. Ben, this
is something that you turned me onto, this idea of
black wall streets, and something I was very much not
(05:27):
familiar with. But a lot of people across the planet
and the US itself only learned of this massacre because
of the series Watchmen on HBO that we've talked about
at length on the show, and the Tulsa massacre plays
a very important role in the story. Ben, can you
tell us a little bit about what went down?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, and no, I think this is a great way
to get into the crazy part of today's topic. So
here's what happened on a high level. After World War One, Tulsa, Oklahoma,
became known for its affluent African American community. This community
thrived against massive, brutal, systemic oppression. Most of the ten
(06:08):
thousand black residents of Tulsa lived in one neighborhood, the
Greenwood District, and because of its incredibly successful business district,
it became known as Black Wall Street. But astute listeners,
you'll notice that we are speaking in past tense. So, Noel,
what happened to Black Wall Street? Why aren't we speaking
(06:30):
in present tense?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Now? Yeah, it's exactly what you described at the top
of the show ben it was essentially eradicated from existence
because of the influence of those that would prefer it
have never existed in the first place. On May the
thirtieth of nineteen twenty one, a young black man named
Dick Roland was writing in an elevator in the Drexel
(06:51):
building at Third in Maine there in Tulsa, along with
the elevator operator, because that was a thing back then,
and that person was a white woman by the name
of Sarah Page. And the actual details of what is
alleged to have occurred between these two people very There's
(07:12):
a lot of hearsay, but ultimately we are told of
accounts of some sort of incident and this spread like
wildfire within Tulsa's white community. And it's the same way
like you see now, you know, especially when it's negative,
people are so quick to spread these fake news stories.
(07:35):
And I say fake news not in the loaded way
that maybe is used rhetorically by certain members of our government,
but actual fake news that's written and intended to obscure
or to deceive. And if it's negative or it's about
if it's something that supports your narrative, people are very
quick to just boom, click share. You gotta be really careful.
(07:57):
You got to do your homework before you become that person.
You don't want to be that person. But a lot
of people here in Tulsa were that person and spread
this story all across the community. And every time it
was told, like a like a sick game of telephone,
it became worse and more exaggerated and more egregious, the
details more lurid, and the police White, of course, arrested
(08:22):
Dick roll In the very next day, and that same day,
May thirty first, the Tulsa Tribune ran and absolutely bonkers
and of course biased a report of the events.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, So in the elevator incident, the bare bones report
seems to be that this young man could have done
something as simple as accidentally bump into the elevator operator
or he stepped on her foot or something like that.
But as you said, Noel, over a span of just
(08:55):
a few hours, really this turned into like a a
full on lurid story of assault. And this sparked a
confrontation between armed groups gathered around the courthouse. The local
authorities barricaded Roland at the top floor of the courthouse,
and these groups, as you can imagine, were divided by race,
(09:17):
but they were also divided by aim. The white mob,
which was getting bigger and bigger as time went on,
wanted to murder Roland that day, but they were met
by a group of twenty five armed black men, many
of whom were veterans from World War One. These veterans
were not antagonizing this mob, It's important to note this. Instead,
(09:39):
they were going to the local authorities, the sheriff, and
they said, you know, there's a very real and immediate
threat of this mob taking this kid and torturing him
and then killing them. We are here to help you.
The sheriff said no, and then then we can only
imagine the sheriff had to eat his words because that
(10:00):
white mob turned their attention away from the courthouse and
they tried to break into the National Guard armory nearby.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, and then you had these two kind of contingents colliding.
When a reformed group of seventy five armed black men returned,
the white mob, which was about fifteen hundred strong, clearly
outnumbering the black group, and the group seeking to protect
Roland had to retreat to the Greenwood District, that area
(10:29):
where many of these affluent black members of the community lived.
So In June first of nineteen twenty one, members of
the white mob, along with so many hangers on and
opportunists and looters, white looters, sacked the Greenwood District and
attempted to completely eradicate it, burning into the ground. The
(10:50):
governor at the time, Robertson, declared a state of martial law.
This is all sounding early familiar. Unfortunately, given the current
state of a events here in the United States. The
National Guard was called in. They assisted firemen and putting
out the flames. They arrested some of the African Americans
(11:12):
from these absolutely you know, bloodthirsty vigilantes what they referred
to themselves as, as though they were seeking some sort
of out you know, wild west outlawed twisted justice. And
then they imprisoned every single black resident of Tulsa that
hadn't already been arrested. That's over six thousand people who
(11:35):
were held against their will for up to eight days
at a convention center on the fair grounds of the town.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's right, and needless to say, these people who were arrested,
who were you know, innocent of crimes, were denied, you know,
the basic things one would expect incarceration in theory, you know, food, water,
restroom facilities, and so on. Let's look at the aftermath.
All of this means that within only twenty four hours
(12:08):
after this pandemonium erupted, thirty five city blocks were in
total ruin. Over eight hundred people were treated for injury,
which means of course that many more were injured and
unable or unwilling to seek medical attention. The death toll
was estimated at the time to be thirty six, but
(12:28):
today historians believe around three hundred people died, if not more.
Thousands lost their livelihoods and homes this massacre. Oddly enough,
even though thousands of people had their lives rereparably damaged,
this massacre was not really reported in the national media,
definitely not an accurate way, and today it remains one
(12:51):
of the worst again officially acknowledged incidents of racial violence
in US history. But it's just one example.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, and there are others, and one of them is
the topic of today's episode, and it's something we like,
we said at the top of the show, neither of
us were familiar with a community in Halifax, Nova Scotia,
known as Africville.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
So what happened to Africville. We'll explore this after a
word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. If
you were like us and you're from the United States,
odds are you may have never heard of Africville. Like
(13:37):
you said, No, this community was located in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.
It was founded in the early eighteen hundreds. It's often
described as one of the first free black communities outside
of the African continent. By nineteen sixty, it was raised
to the ground.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Series.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
It didn't happen as quickly as the Tulsa massacre, but
it happened.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So what gives?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
What's the what's the history of this community?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, I've seen it referred to as well as as
like a settlement, which is interesting because I mean, it
really was sort of a very self sufficient community, but
they did depend on some services from the city of Halifax.
We'll get into what that relationship kind of deteriorated into
(14:33):
in just a second. But from eighteen forty to eighteen sixty,
Nova Scotia was actually the last stop on the underground railroad.
So while Africville was certainly a better place for many
than where they had come from. It was still poor
and still quite oppressed. The local government never provided them
(14:54):
with basic amenities sewage, you know, water, electricity and snow plowing,
because let's not forget this is in the Great White North.
And the community reached its population peaked by nineteen seventeen.
Only about four hundred people lived there during the time
of a very important event in the history of Halifax
(15:16):
Nova Scotia, the Halifax explosion, which took place on December
sixth of nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
No, yeah, this is insane. So it's a tail of
two ships instead of the tail of two cities.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
The SS mont Blanc is a French cargo ship. It's
carrying hazmat hazardous materials we call them today. It's carrying
a bunch of explosives. It collides with a Norwegian vessel
called the ss Imo or Emo Imo. I hope it
wasn't the Emo, but that would be funny though. What happened, though,
(15:51):
was anything but humorous. When this friendship collides with this
Norwegian ship, it happens in a straight connecting Upper Hall
Facts Harbor to something called the Bedford Basin. A fire
breaks out on the French ship it ignites the cargo,
and this causes a massive explosion, the equivalent of two
point nine kilo tons of T and T. It kills
(16:14):
around two thousand people and at least nine thousand other
people are injured. Africville is located on the southern shore
of the Bedford Basin, and due to topology in the area,
it's partially shielded from the direct blast, but that doesn't
mean it's completely shielded. Multiple structures in this area are
(16:37):
destroyed or so heavily damaged that they're unusable. And you know,
to the point about self sufficiency that you made earlier, Nol,
it makes sense because a lot of these buildings were
constructed by the people who are living in them.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That's right. And I saw a great documentary If you
just google Africville on YouTube, it's the longest thing that
comes up. It's like thirty five minute documentary that the
Canadian Broadcasting Service may. It feels like it was in
the late seventies or something. It's got that look, but
it starts off interviewing like multi generational families that lived
in Efricville and like grew up there. Because again it
was nineteen seventeen. It had a history, and people say
(17:13):
when people ask you, the question put to these former residents,
when people ask you where you're from, what do you say,
and they say Africville. They don't say Canada, they don't
say Nova Scotia, they don't say Halifax. They say Africville.
Because it really had this identity all of its own,
and they were proud of it. They were proud of
their community. They like you said, Ben, they did the
(17:35):
best that they could with what they had. They built
their own homes. But in the greater community outside of Africville,
it was unfairly characterized as a slum. There was this
kind of notion that it was hated by the members
of the community. But when you actually talk to people,
and the people have seen interviewed in this documentary, no
(17:56):
one says that. It's just the people in power that
say that. It's a narrative they try I had to
create to justify what they ultimately what they ultimately did,
which we'll get to. So the local government in question
here had already begun arguing the community should be destroyed
to make room for industrial development. Oh, all of a sudden,
(18:17):
they realized they've got some prime real estate and something
better to do with it that could maybe enrich the
community more in their eyes in a way that was meaningful.
And so in the wake of this disaster, the people
of the community didn't get anything in the way of
recovery assistance. They also got no police or fire protection,
and they still had to pay taxes. And other parts
(18:38):
of the city, yeah, received tons of help in terms of, like,
you know, recovering from this horrific event. And after the explosion,
the city of Halifax itself continued what you could describe
as systematic efforts to make Africville a bad place to
live and then demonizing it, you know, with this rhetoric
and this idea of it being a slum and we
(18:58):
have to do something about it. But it was basically
like them commenting on what they themselves had wrought upon
this community, right.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm being too charitable with could be described
as systematic effort there, because it is, and it was
to dovetail in the earlier point you were making about
the discrepancy between what the people who lived their experience
(19:26):
and what the city's official line was and had always
been just follow the money, you know what I mean,
whether it's a war, whether it's a moral crusade. Follow
the money. Ultimately, there's a financial motive there, and this
was an opportunity. I want to be very clear. No
one's saying that the Halifax explosion itself was planned or
(19:50):
you know, even meant to in any way effect the
people of Affortville, but the city of Halifax certainly took
advantage of the opportunity. They started aggressively making this a
bad place to live. Beforehand, they were degrading Africville through
(20:13):
what I would describe as willful, purposeful neglect. But now
they started being more aggressive and assertive and belligerent about it.
They built a hospital for World War two veterans, but
not just any World War two veterans, specifically World War
two veterans with various contagious diseases. And there's no real
(20:34):
hygienic practice at the time. So this exposes the community
to this. But that's not the only thing they were
exposed to.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, it's like adding insult to injury. Halifax decided, oh,
this would be a great site for a toxic waste dump. Wow,
they're really laying and on.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Thick and you can see the residents, one of whom
we'll meet later. In this episode, the residents often had
to go through this dump for honestly, just scavenge to
find things to sell.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
It's it's very rough situation.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That's right. And there actually is footage of this, all
of this in the documentary that I mentioned. I highly
recommend checking it out because it's all you know, you
can see the dump. It's this is not hyperbole. It's
literally a sludgy, toxic, you know mess. Also, you know,
it's it's sort of a catch all dump. You got
your toxic stuff, you got your like, you know, scrap metal,
(21:33):
you know. But you're right, I mean they were so
put upon and unable to turn a living people were
you know, there's there's a there's a gentleman in the
in the in the in the dock who says, I
was seeing my brothers, you know, scavenging in the dump
every day and it was just you know, painful, and
that level of pain led to folks starting to just leave.
(21:55):
It's time to move on, and you know, it was
it was when the rats started showing up that things
really took a turn. The gentleman you mentioned, ben Eddie Carvery,
who grew up there. There's a quote we have from
him that is pretty disturbing and it really gives you
a sense of what it would have been like to
live in this place at the time.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, Eddie Carvery, who is in you can see a
multiple documentaries. He grew up there, as you said, Noel,
and he witnessed first hand the successful efforts of Halifax
to depopulate Africville. In this quote describing the rats, he says,
the hospital would just dump their raw garbage on the dump,
(22:41):
bloody body parts, blankets and everything. We were subject to that,
and then they would burn this dump every so often.
There would be walls of fire and toxic smoke, and
we used to run through that fire to get the
metals before they melted because we scavenged the dump. We
had to. You had to do that too survive.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
In a way.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
You know, what this reminds me of is the practice
of ship breaking. There are places in you know, everybody's
kind of aware of large water going vessels, cargo ships
and stuff. When those things are decommissioned, sometimes they are
physically broken down by people who like the boat is
(23:22):
run aground, and then people have to go through and
scavenge and break it down. And they're like paid per
kilo and typically will end up contracting horrible medical conditions
from exposure to stuff like this. I mean this may
be even worse because of the burning, right, Like the
smoke means that you don't have to be at the site.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, you get a wicked case of tetanus or worse,
you know. And yeah, like we were alluding to earlier,
the rats just became an absolute nightmare, an utter infestation
that the population ballooning, and Halifax was having none of
it in terms of helping. The residents of Affickville found
(24:07):
themselves in just an absolute, like nightmarish perfect storm for
a plague. I mean really just absolutely biblical horrible stuff.
When the rats began to infiltrate white neighborhoods. Mind you,
the city finally stepped in to address the problem by
(24:27):
dousing the dump at Africville in rat poison. Cool. But
now it's like, how do you make a toxic waste
dump worse? You'd cover it in rat poison? Shit, I
don't know. This is just this is a real, real
saga here.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Meanwhile, the larger government of Canada is completely ignoring what's
happening here. By the way, and we're not unless we
sound like we're picking on Canada. This isn't a more
obscure case or was it the time, But make no mistake,
things like this are happening in multiple countries around the world,
right and and to your point, now the population is
(25:09):
breathing this poison in Uh. You know, numerous people are
saying like even if we even if we try to
avoid the dump, this is still getting all over our
air or clothing. And now we see something that happens
in a lot of small communities with exposure to these
kind of chemicals. Uh, the real dangerous effects are things
(25:31):
that people might not have seen at the time, even
the people spreading the rat poison. It's it's a it's
a problem that crops up like agent orange years after
the fact, right years after exposure, we start noticing people
getting cancer.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, it reminds me of the Santa Susana nuclear research
site in the episode we did not terribly long ago. Yeah,
you don't find out about that stuff until way later,
and at the time you don't really associate it with
with that with your with your with your environment. At
this time especially might not have even been something that
people were widely aware of, but there it is. And
(26:06):
so when the rats am the toxic dump weren't enough
to get residents to leave, Halifax decided that the area
was officially an uninhabitable slum, which is a term that
they're already using just in you know, passing referring to
the place like with these meetings, and the city began
(26:27):
to just tear the neighborhood down and force the remaining
residents to relocate. In sixty four mainteen sixty four, the
neighborhood was entirely demolished and members of the community received
You know, it's like if if a developer comes in
and wants to buy your house, you know that might
be one deal. This is going to be, you know,
(26:50):
based on all kinds of factors, and it's going to
be a variety of different amounts of compensation, likely not
fair at all. And some of the houses were bulldozed
with people still inside them.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, think about that. So we always hear that old
figure of speech in real estate what matters location and
location and location in that order. So the City of
Halifax has done everything it can to make this location terrible.
So if they pay people or compensate them for their
property based on the market value of the property. Well,
(27:26):
that market value has been destroyed. And bulldozing houses with
people inside them doesn't sound like something that should be
happening in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
But there we are.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
This has been that. Here's where it gets crazy part.
But this is all factual. None of this is speculation
zero percent. We're going to pause for word from our sponsor,
and then let's explore the aftermath because the story of
Africville is not quite over.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
And we're back. Since Africville was destroyed, Eddie Carvery, former resident,
began protesting. He started his protest on the original site
of the neighborhood in nineteen seventy, living in what later
was renamed to Seaview Park, and he stayed there on
(28:24):
and off for over twenty five years before making international news.
When G seven visited Halifax in nineteen ninety five, the
city tried to get rid of him, as well as
his brother Victor.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah. Yeah, so the Carvery brothers, Eddie and Victor have
been have been struggling with a lot of things. You know,
if you see the if you see some of the
video footage of the Eddie is definitely sort of the
last man standing in the protest and has been waging
(28:58):
this protest for as you said, decades, and at times
he's been sleeping rough just in the area because he
wants to keep it there in the in the location,
the former location of Africville. And eventually the brothers did
move and lived more off of the site of Africville,
(29:22):
but they continued to travel to the community and protest
like literally pretty much every day where the community school
once stood. If you want to learn more about Eddie Carvery,
you can check out these documentaries we've mentioned. You can
also check out John Tattrey's work. It's called The Hermit
(29:43):
of Africville. It was published in twenty ten. And that's
to me, that's one of the craziest things. The timeline
about this history tried to forget this for a long time.
You know, we're looking back at at the turn of
the nineteenth century and now we're well into the twenty
(30:04):
first century and this is still continuing. People haven't been
compensated for their land, let alone their medical conditions. Eddie
Carvery was for a large part of his entire life,
he was just trying to get people to listen to
what was happening, which speaks to I think it speaks
(30:24):
highly to his character, but it is a resounding condemnation
of the government of Halifax.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I just want to restate too. I think we said
it at the top pretty well, but just when these
black settlers came over, you know, to this part of Canada,
it wasn't like they immediately, you know, created this settlement.
They were forced to because they weren't accepted in the
rest of the community in the surrounding area, so they
(30:52):
had to They were kind of pushed onto what would
be considered less desirable land. And then of course when
the tide turned and all of a sudden, you know,
there's a use for this land. It's like, okay, sorry,
I know we're the ones who put you here in
the first place, but you know, we need what you're
living on, and we're going to make your life a
(31:13):
living hell. And there's really great writing about this as
well in Canadian Museum for Human Rights website, just kind
of a timeline and the story of Africville, And you know,
I just want to paint a picture too of like
what life really was like when it was at its best. Everyone.
You know, again, this is like a long standing community,
and people described it as, you know, feeling no sense
(31:36):
of isolation. There's a quote on this Canadian Museum for
Human Rights site from a former Affricville resident saying, quote,
you weren't isolated at any time living in Africville. You
always felt at home. The doors were always open. That
is one of the most important things that has stayed
with me throughout my life. And you know, you can
see photographs of like the Country Store, and just like
(31:59):
it just seemed kind of like, at the time, an
idyllic situation that they kind of had to create for themselves.
And yeah, some of the houses are kind of ramshackle
and look a little bit like shanty kind of houses,
but it was obvious that they took great pride in
it and that they did the repairs with everything they
had at their disposal and did the best they could.
(32:19):
And then the idea of demonizing it as being some
kind of slum is just a real misnomer to me.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And you know, Halifax has acknowledged Africville after its destruction,
primarily in twenty ten, the same year the Hermit of
Africaville published, the Mayor of Halifax officially apologized to the
former residents of the neighborhood. You know, this is an
(32:50):
important active symbolism, right. This was Mayor Peter Kelly. He said,
you lost your homes, your church, all the polics and
which you gathered with your family and friends to share
and mark the milestones of your lives. For all of that,
we apologized. But here's what he did. So they did
put some money behind us. The government of Halifax promised
(33:15):
three million dollars to build a replica church and what
they called an interpretive center. But the people who are
at the crowd when this apology was presented and this
funding was announced, they were loudly complaining. They said, you know,
nobody asked us we were residents of Africville or we
were descended from people from Africville. This settlement, I don't know.
(33:38):
It seems like too many people it was a token
gesture because nobody who lost their home is getting any
further compensation for that loss. You know, I can see
that being a valid point. I think it's all too
easy for people who aren't involved in a situation to say, well,
acknowledgment is important and something's better than nothing. But is
(34:01):
that a symbolic statement? You know, more than an actual one.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
No, I absolutely think you're right, Ben. It's also to
kind of too little, too late, you know, and you know,
in a lot of ways. But in again, there is
sort of a silver lining here. Even beyond that. In
twenty twelve, the Africville Church was rebuilt and Carvery moved
his protest to that area, and Carvery, against all odds,
(34:27):
continues his protest today.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, And to be fair, we don't know how long
this will last, but at the time of this recording,
he's still protesting. The takeaway from this is that not
every conspiracy is, you know, someone trying to hide space
age technology. Not every conspiracy is necessarily, you know, like
(34:52):
a secret genetic research program or cryptid or paranormal activity.
All too often conspiracies are real, and they're motivated by
things like racism or real estate. Right, they're motivated by
a profit of some sort, and that seems to be
the case with Africville. And as we said at the top,
(35:15):
at this point the story continues. We don't know whether
there will be further action by the government of Halifax,
you know, the president administration or a future administration, And
we don't know whether there will be any sort of
further compensation for the survivors of the neighborhood, of the community,
(35:35):
and we pass the torch to you. Thank you as
always for tuning in what other cities or communities have
been destroyed in this manner let us know about the
hidden history in your neck of the Global woods, because
one of the strangest and most disturbing things about these
sorts of stories is we can guarantee you most people
(35:56):
have not heard of them, and that's probably by design.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, you know, let's not forget that. Like the definition.
I had to kind of look this up because we
get so wrapped up in the buzzworthiness of conspiracy. And
again the way it's all, it's been demonized and used
this kind of a thought terminating cliche as you say, Ben,
But a conspiracy, at the end of the day, is
a secret plan made by a group to do something
unlawful or harmful. Uh, And that's that's what this is.
(36:21):
This is, you know, cut and dry conspiracy, not theory.
And but you know is that then you have to
bring up the question of what is lawful if they
voted unanimously to do this, you know, on a on
a city council, a government body. Is it lawful? Whose laws?
You know? I don't know. I don't want to sound
(36:42):
like I'm grandstanding here, but I certainly think that if
a closer look was was paid to this, you could
definitely find some evidence of wrongdoing and of this not
being lawful. It reminds me of the way Native Americans
were treated, you know, like they're they have this land
that they settled, and then all of a sudden, oh, sorry,
(37:04):
we own the land. This notion of owning the land
is such a you know, capitalistic kind of idea, and
it's something that's just doesn't feel very natural. But yet
here we are, so yeah, I don't know. I'm interested
to see where this goes. I'm not particularly hopeful that
anything positive is going to come of it, but I'm
(37:27):
really glad we found out about it, and want to
thank the listener for letting us know. Because you don't
think about this stuff happening in Canada. You think of
Canada as being like this, you know, really positive, hunky
Dory place, neighbors to the north, the kinder gentler, you know,
weed smoking, you know, hockey players. But there's tons of
racism in Canada.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I mean you can look it up and see, Like
I saw a video of someone being attacked on a
bus in Canada by some racist gentleman, and it's everywhere.
It's insidious and it's not something that is to go
away without you know, shedding the light on it.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
The Highway of Tears, the forced dissimilation of First Nations peoples.
Yet the list goes on. You know, no country is perfect,
and it's our It's part of I think our purpose
as people living today, regardless of what country we live in,
(38:23):
to hold those in power accountable.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
We would like to.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Hear your stories, let us know about your local hidden history.
Wherever you're at in the world. You can find us
on Facebook. You can find us on Instagram. You can
find us on Twitter. We like to recommend our Facebook
group Here's where it gets crazy, where you can find
our favorite part of the show, the most important part,
that's your fellow listeners. You can also while you're online,
(38:48):
find us as individuals.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, you sure can if you wish. I am at
how Now Noel Brown on Instagram and you can.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Find me on Twitter at Ben BULLINHSW. You can also
find me on Instagram at Ben Bolin and of course
if you have complaints, corrections or general gripes, we have
a dedicated email line for that. That is Jonathan Strickland
at iHeartMedia dot com. But we also have a phone number,
don't we we do.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
It's one eight three three std WYTK. Leave us a message.
You might be surprised to hear that this segment of
our show is going to be making a stunning reappearance
in a very real way very soon, meaning that you
could be your voice could be a part of Stuff
they Don't Want You to Know episodes. It's a three
(39:37):
minute time limit. You can call back and continue and
we just stitch them together and just you know, if
you don't want us to use your name, just make
sure to let us know. But we we love to
hear from you and really enjoyed doing the listener mail
episodes and looking forward to bringing that back very soon.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
And as I like to say, if none of that
quite bad for badgers, you can only send us an email.
It's a good old fashion one.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
We are conspiracy se it iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they
(40:20):
Don't Want You to Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
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