Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Folks, welcome back to the show. We're returning with a
classic as we get reacquainted with life on the land.
And there was a moment in twenty twenty you'll recall
Matt when we were very taken with the darker side
of protest.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Oh yes, there are a lot of protests happening around
this time for a very good reason, and there were
a lot of allegations, specifically in the news here in
the US, that those protests were turning violent very quickly
because of a contingent a group that I'm actually not
even going to say right now because I don't want
to say it into a microphone.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
No, wow, yeah, deep or black block protest tactics. The
idea here is something called the agent provocateur. It's inherently conspiratorial.
We know it's existed in other parts of the world
and other protests and other activist movements throughout history. But
(01:06):
the concept is this, Let's say you're a tyrant and
you've got a ton of people in your local population
who are kind of mad at you.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Like like seven million of them or something like on
a Saturday.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Right, right, right, and they are smart enough to know
that they want to do peaceful protests. But you need
a reason to crack down on these pleabs.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Well, like with the National Guard, I dare.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Say, well, one of the things is that if you
can't encounter the good old organic chaos that would rationalize
a crackdown, well you just create it. Why don't you
have some kind of agent who could provoke that reaction?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Oh my god, we need to get into this.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
really with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of Iheartrading.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Hello, welcome back to the show today. We are recording
this on June three, twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Noah.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Paul Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. As we record today,
cities and towns across the United States and the world
are the stage and ground for numerous peaceful protests against
(02:50):
ongoing police brutality and longstanding discrimination against the Black community
of the United States. Escalation has resulted in violence as
authorities resort to what are sometimes misleadingly called less than
lethal tactics to force these groups to disperse. We are
(03:10):
three mostly white dudes, and we stand in solidarity with
our fellow black citizens Black lives Matter. Anything said to distract, from, discredit,
or dilute that statement goes squarely against the stated principles
of this government in its founding documents, and crucially, it
goes against what it means to be a human being.
(03:33):
We don't have all the answers. It would be false
to pretend that we do. The good news is that
there are many organizations and activists out there now easy
to find, with the resources to help address injustice. And
what we can do on this show, as has always been,
our aim, is to arm you with information many, including
(03:55):
those in power, do not want you to know. With
this in mind, to give you and our fellow listeners,
crucial information about protest, what they are, how they work,
and most importantly, the tactics used by opponents, legal and
illegal to sabotage them. So here are the facts.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Well, to start off with, the act of protest is
in fact your right as a citizen of the United States,
regardless of how you might personally feel about these protests
or protests in general. It is something that from the
very onset the establishment of this country in the US Constitution,
has been a primary guiding principle for the United.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
States as a nation.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
The right to protest is literally in the first Amendment
of the Constitution, stating the obvious here for many. But
imagine that lawmakers of the time, the all two imperfect
founding fathers, as we refer to them. You know, we're
sitting in that back room debating on how to create
(05:01):
a living document. And when they wrote the first part
of the Constitution, they likely were spitballing back and forth
ways to make sure that this could be adaptable to
changing circumstances. And when they wrote that very first Amendment,
they wrote these.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Words, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom
of speech or of the press, or the right of
the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government
for a redress of grievances.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
There's definitely some dated language in there, right, and it
can be a little bit to unpack, but it's fairly direct, right,
it is fairly direct, especially for legal document. In essence,
the governments here cannot legally interfere with your religion.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
One.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I mean, that's part of why the US is a
great place to start a religion. That's a story for
another day. It also says that Uncle Sam has to
let you and the media say what you want what
they want with a massive amount of fine print there
that we've covered in some other episodes. And there there's
that most important part that you hit Matt for today's show.
(06:20):
All people have the right to assemble peaceably or peacefully
as we would say. Now, that means this is think
about this. That means that literally, if everyone in this
country decided to drop what we're doing right now, walk
outside to the nearest parks, and we decided to sing
the entire catalog of Nickelback, then the constitution is down
(06:41):
with that ridiculous decision. And that also means that if
you wish, instead of joining some nationwide Nickelback tribute, you
can publicly press the government for change.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
I mean, you know, certainly your fellow park attendees might
look at you as ants if they're not as into Nickelback.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
As you are.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
And there might even be some cops there that would
look at you funny, but they certainly wouldn't stop you
from doing it. I love the idea of redress of grievances.
That's sort of part of that dated language you were mentioning, Ben,
But it's really simple. It's the idea of expressing change
that you want to see in the status quo and
(07:25):
addressing it peacefully in a public setting, and the notion
that you should not be interfered with, as long as
that peacefully is the keyword there.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, I mean on paper, top notch right home, run
on paper. This is a series of rights that many, many,
many people and many other countries have historically not possessed.
And it's a series of rights that many countries do
not grant in the modern day. And that's because when
everyone in charge of enforcing these laws is in fact
(08:01):
obeying the laws that they are supposed to obey, this
series of rights is a profoundly powerful thing. But you know,
the old adage holds true, right, There's many a slip
TwixT the cup and the lip, and the US, again,
like many places, has a terrible abominable track record at
obeying its own laws.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And when a protest is, for one reason or another,
something that is not wanted by those in power. There
are emergency powers that can be deployed to do all
kinds of things, including right now that we're seeing, to
enforce curfews, which you know in cities across the United States,
(08:44):
there are curfews that are happening tonight, which is in
fact an hour earlier than it had been previously tonight. Again,
as we record this in Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Can I say, really really quickly, these curfews are tricky
in and of themselves because it's hard to know for
folks that are like at work. For example, like a
friend of mine was working at a restaurant. They're back
at working restaurants waiting tables, and her boss knew about
the curfew, but did not share that information with his employees,
(09:15):
and they are not allowed to have their phones on
them while they're working. So for something like a curfew
to be so heavily enforced, heavy handedly enforced, it's really
tricky when the information isn't reaching the people who need it.
And I've been moving, for example, while all of this
has been going on in Atlanta, and a couple of
(09:36):
times I didn't get the notification on my phone, and
luckily Ben you texted me and made sure I was
safe and told me what the curfew was, and I
was about fifteen minutes away from missing it. And I've
been seeing, you know, a lot of stuff in the
news about people very much getting into some difficult situations
for missing this curfew, whatever their race might be.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And curfews are only one of the tools within the
belt of the people's empower and that could be used
to quell protesting. And one of the major components to
this is that the people who are in power, who
are meant to actually enforce the laws to keep law
and order, they may have their own agendas. Specifically, they
(10:19):
may have an agenda that is in complete opposition to
the cause of the protesters.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Right right, Remember, back in the days of the nineteen
sixties protests, quite a few members of law enforcement were
themselves also members of militaristic supremacist organizations, not the right
people for the job. In other words, Also, there's trickery
(10:48):
in the enforcement of these kind of powers or the
deployment the way they're rolled out. The first Atlanta curfew,
which was at nine PM, was announced via text at
about nine thirteen PM, and protesters were also blocked from egress,
so they were going to be subject to violating a
(11:10):
curfew that they were physically unable to comply with. These
exact problems are why protests matter. These situations themselves prove
why protests should remain a fundamental right in this country
and why they are so important. They are a direct
(11:31):
method of expression that can be used when other channels
of expression have become compromised, or when they have failed,
when they have collapsed entirely. Look back at history, protests
in this country led to voting rights for women. Protests
have led to policy change, to the enactment or at
least the writing of better laws, and to the repeal
(11:54):
of horrific ones. Protests lead to more rights for more people,
at least they have the ability to do so. And
if you look at the history protests in this country,
you will see that they have often been successful. I
know that's something that you know, the mainstream media doesn't
really talk about when they talk about modern protests. It's
(12:16):
safe to pat yourself on the back when you look
at history from a distance.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Well, and we'll get into this as well, but in
the media right now, who are clearly grappling, you know,
on how to cover these protests in a measured way.
You know, typically journalism is an opinion based so it
needs to lean on facts. But the idea of what
is a protest, what is a revolt, what is a revolution,
(12:43):
what is an uprising? These things are very much front
and center in this conversation around what's going on right now,
and very quickly a protest can become something more resembling
an uprising, and that does typically involve violence and destruction
and behavior that can be demonized by those in power
(13:06):
and used to discredit a movement.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
The cold, hard fact is that protests, not always, but
generally are against something that is happening within the current
power structure, the current system, right, the status quo that exists.
And oftentimes, when there are protests, powerful people at the
tops of you know, whatever food chain you're thinking of,
(13:33):
they won't want to have that change whatever it is
that the protester is seeking, because it would mean they
would have to change the system itself, would have to
change the things that give them, you know, power, and
oftentimes money would have to change. I mean, why would
someone who is a part of that system, you know,
(13:54):
necessarily want to have that done right. I mean, it's
kind of a tricky thing to even talk about, but
giving away power and money and whatever that thing is,
those two would be the probably the highest things. That's
not something that happens very often.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Willingly no, and really quickly, just to clarify my previous comment,
when I was talking about the idea of an uprising
versus a protest, so obviously, so much of what we're
seeing right now is absolutely peaceful protest. But then you
are hearing, like I heard a woman, a black woman
on the radio the other day talking about how she
wants to just burn it all down because nothing else
(14:33):
has worked and the only way to truly enact change
is to mess with the power holder's money and to
actually do things that will that they will notice, because
it's easy to just brush off the idea of a
peaceful protest if you're one of those holders of the
power that actually can can affect change and you don't
(14:54):
want to relinquish that. It's when their money and their
property and their infrastructure is threat And this is you know,
I'm not trying to get off the subject here because
we are talking about something a little different, but that
is something that there is, you know, this notion that
peaceful protests don't always work, and some of the protests
you're talking about them that led to those changes did
(15:17):
ultimately turn into something more resembling a revolt or an uprising.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
And while the times and the circumstances may change, the
people in power for a very very long time have
commonalities in the tactics that they use to exploit and
to exploit a movement to deep power protests and to
attempt to essentially hinder the progress of the movements. Associate
(15:45):
with those protests, to put them into maybe three broad categories. One,
you want to discredit a movement if you're the person
in power who feels like, as you said, Matt, you're
your status as being one of the halves is threatened.
This takes a number of roots. For example, why not
(16:06):
associate a movement with something negative, focus media coverage on, say,
rioters and looters or property damage rather than the message
of that movement. Also launch counter protests, whether astro turfed
or whether whipped up by discrediting movements online. All protests
(16:31):
now also take place online. That's important to remember and
aim those counter protesters, whether they are paid, which is
definitely a thing, or however they get there, aim them
at the existing protests. All of that happens, and honestly,
it is highly unethical, but there are very few laws
(16:53):
constraining the use of those tactics. And that's like that
does not even count what I what I would say,
or the other two officially known and condone tactics like
smear tactics.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, and this is a this is a big one
that oftentimes isn't even known until years after because this
one involves well, really blackmail, specifically finding dirt on you know,
leaders within a movement. That is something that really does happen,
or you know, using connections within the media or you know,
(17:31):
just again with now with the access of social media,
you can do it, you know, with a single person
and start a rumor to publicly smear or gaslight or
you know, like we said.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Blackmail some leader of a movement.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And we saw this with cointelpro where the government itself
was attempting to blackmail doctor Martin Luther King.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
And it doesn't even take like dirt or blackmail necessarily.
It can be just done with rhetoric by reframing a
leader of a movement as of radical or as a
terrorist or whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Like.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
You know, people in power with a very big megaphone
and a very tall bully pulpit can just use their
words to reframe someone that has good intentions and has
a very just aim and discredit them just using words.
And that word gaslighting that you mentioned, I mean, that's
what that is is when you're making people who follow
(18:25):
them think maybe they're wrong, maybe this person actually is
a bad person, and it makes you question your own motivations.
And that's a very powerful thing that people in power
are able to do just by speaking.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Well, no, you're absolutely right, controlling how a protest is
viewed by the viewership or listenership within especially television right now,
we've seen it where you know, we see words like
protest and then also this same group of people doing
(18:57):
something described as you know, writers, same group of people
described as looters, and oftentimes it's not the same people
that are being talked about, but you know, if you
look on your screen, it looks the same.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I guess just what I'm saying is that you can
depict the way an end user of media views a
group of people specifically in protest by the language you
use around those those images.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
One of the tremendous misconceptions in the modern world today
is that there is democratization of media that is not,
in fact the case. What is collectively referred to as
the media right now has a lot in common with
a taco bell menu. I think I've made this comparison before.
If you look at, you know, the menu of a
(19:47):
drive through a Taco Bell. I'm just picking on them
because they're an excellent example. Then you will see what
twenty thirty different things on the menu. They all have
the same five to ten ingredients. These things are fingers
on a hand, and they are meant to appear separate,
and that is very much by design. There are the
(20:08):
groups who control what you see and what you hear.
They are They are far fewer of them then, you know,
people would assume that that's something that makes it so
easy to do the next category, which is to co
opt the movement. It's the next step in controlling the narrative.
This is something that you may be hearing reports of
(20:29):
in Portland recently. Why the logic is this, and it
gets slippery and illegal very quickly. Why bother attacking a
leader when you can have an agreement with one, a backdoor,
quid pro quo scratching backs kind of deal.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Furthermore, why make a deal when you can simply create
a leader to make the public moves within the protest
while also furthering your agenda. Very careful when you know
there's someone who who seems new to a community, an
activist community, and they have a lot of grand, very
(21:07):
extreme ideas, and also have a tendency to tell you
if you're a veteran activist what this is really about.
The narrative shift is real. I don't want to be alarmist,
but it happens. You can also, again, because all of
this stuff is occurring online too, you can see the
creation of fake accounts meant to push the conversation, just
(21:29):
like in the twenty sixteen election and other movements, to
try and lead a protest in a direction that people
in power wanted to go. Russia has objectively had some
great programs with this, and they're very old, like Operation
Infection it was called in the US decades and decades
(21:49):
and decades ago. It is naive to think that's not
happening now.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
But there's also a massive elephant in the room right now,
and it's one that's often ignored by the mainstream media
that we're talking about those fingers on the same hand,
those taco bell ingredients. But common knowledge to folks who
are veterans in the protest game, and that's that whenever
there's a peaceful gathering of protesters, that somehow becomes violent,
(22:17):
no matter what the scale of the violence is. Again,
it's all about those optics and the interpretation of Okay,
this is now giving us the cause to push the
button to quell said violence. These peacekeeping forces now have
a reason to pull the trigger on this idea of okay,
this is now no longer a peaceable assembly redressing grievances.
(22:42):
Now we are moving into go mode to quell that violence,
aka shut down that protest. So the big question today
is how and why do peaceful protests in cities across
the entire planet, but particularly in the US so often
result in these kinds of incidents that involve destruction of
property or violence. What is there to gain from this?
(23:06):
Why is this happening?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And we'll talk about that right after a quick word
from our sponsor.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Here's where it gets crazy. The first an important point.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is not our aim to tell anyone how to protest,
and it would be offensive to do so. This, however,
is again a mission to arm you with information, to
arm you with things people in power do not want
you to know. And one of the things that people
(23:48):
in power do not want you to know about protests
is that there are numerous bad actors. There is enormous
opportunity for people on the ground to exploit, to exploit
the actual cause, the actual motivating force of a protest
(24:09):
or a movement, for their own insidious and the farius ends.
This is not a conspiracy theory. This is a conspiracy.
Everything that you are going to hear in this episode
this point on definitely is true and it should alarm you.
We're talking about infiltration. Longtime listeners, you already know the
(24:34):
elephant in the room here is what is called the
agent provocateur. But let's get some background first.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yes, and just quick background on that search term. If
you put in agent provocateur without some other terms, you're
going to get a lingerie company.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
So just be aware of that.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Not very helpful when researching something like this. For some
of this, I kind of want to start it with
an article from the in New York Times that was
written by Jim Dwyer in two thousand and five, just
because it gives some much needed background here and this
is a fairly long quote here, but we're going to
(25:13):
go with it and then we'll build off of it.
Here's the quote. The federal courts have long held that
undercover officers can monitor political activities for a quote, legitimate
law enforcement purpose. While the police routinely conduct undercover operations
in plainly criminal circumstances the illegal sale of weapons, for example,
surveillance at political events is laden with ambiguity to retain cover.
(25:36):
In those settings, officers might take part in public dialogue, debate,
and demonstration at the risk of influencing others to alter
opinions or behavior. The authority of the police to conduct
surveillance of First Amendment activities has been shaped over the years,
not only by the law, but also by the politics
of the movement and the perception of public safety needs.
(25:57):
In a nineteen seventy one class action lawsuit, New York
City acknowledged that the police department had used infiltraders, undercover agents,
and fake news reporters to spy on quote yippies, civil
rights advocates, anti war activists, labor organizers, and black power groups.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
But all that was under like the auspices of like,
we just want to keep an eye on it in
case so that we can maintain law and order. It's
not necessarily to shut down protests, you know, on paper,
it's not necessarily to discredit any of these organizations on paper.
The idea was, we need to be able to, you know,
have our finger on the pulse of what's going on
with these types of organizations.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Right, perhaps, But the important thing here is that law
enforcement has infiltrated these groups, perhaps prior to a protest
taking place.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Just like several years ago, the FBI was caught out
because they had sent people to infiltrate Muslim community here
in the United States, and these infiltrators were attempting to
radicalize people, it's called, right, attempting to say, let's let's
(27:10):
start building some bombs, let's start committing you know, these
felonious acts. And this disturbed the members of these communities
so much that they reported the FBI's own agents to
the FBI and said, please arrest these people. Well, it's
like entrapment, right, yes, yeah, it's very it's very close.
(27:33):
There will be lawyers who disagree, but I would say
it's unethical to pretend that it's not. And this is
like an agent provocateur. Think of it like genre and subgenre.
An agent provocateur is a genre category of this phenomenon.
Not every protester is who they purport to be, as
(27:57):
noted in this earlier video we have which is a
little dated but still holds up in terms of tactics, and.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
You can find it by the way. You have to
search for Dirty Tricks Agent Provocateur and it's on the
Old House Stuff Works YouTube channel, just so everybody knows.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, yeah, these these protesters, or these people purporting to
be protesters, have a different underlying agenda, an ulterior motive,
and this is known as the agent provocateur. A couple
examples someone who is not associated with a movement but
is present to incite these acts of violence to push
(28:39):
people there. And again, this is not the same thing
as saying the only good protest is a peaceful one
where we're just presenting the facts. This is the aim
of the agent provocateur. They're the people who for some
reason want citizens and law enforcement to clash.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And these these.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Agent provocateur have their own categories as well. They are
not all the same. Some are ideologically motivated, they're unpaid.
They might be someone like an anarchist, which I think
is of course an umbrella term. I don't want to
paint a broad brush here, but there might be members
of some anarchist groups or factions of some anarchist groups
(29:19):
who say, I don't care what this protest is about,
but I do care to dismantle a system right or
to create chaos, to become an agent of chaos. You'll
also see people who are ideologically camouflaging themselves, like the
alt right Proud Boy groups you know, confirmed in the
(29:43):
Pacific Northwest, who participated in the recent protest with the
express cause of inciding violence.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
And there's also an immediate example we could point to
that just happened god a few days ago, where an
unknown person holding an umbrella and wearing a gas mask
came up and just began smashing windows when there was
a peaceful assembly occurring, and it just seemed like it
was for no reason. And you know, there were all
(30:14):
kinds of rumors on social media and a couple of
videos made of this person where he was purported, you know,
allegedly to be a police officer, then allegedly to be
an anarchist. And it's just at this point, unless you
guys have other knowledge, this person is unknown. But they
certainly they made it to where a report could go
(30:35):
out to the police then that vandalism had occurred in
this one specific area, which could potentially then send a
police force to that immediate area.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And this tactic is older than police forces. It is
much much older than you may think. It was something
that the human species figured out in ancient times. This happened,
you know, this is older than the the The reason
the term is French is it comes from modern undercover
(31:07):
operations that were instituted in France in the early eighteen hundreds.
But the reason people keep using agent provocateur tactics is
because they work. I mean, you mentioned co intel Pro earlier, Matt,
just to be specific about that. During co Intel Pro,
which has arguably never ended, maybe just changed names, the
(31:29):
way that Blackwater became Academy became X or whatever. During
co intel Pro's activities, FBI agents infiltrated groups, and they
infiltrated protests. They were supposed to be monitoring these things,
but they also disrupted and sabotaged them. These groups include
things like the ku Klux Klan, the KKK, but they
(31:53):
also include things like the American Indian Movement. They include
things like student groups that were considered dangerously left wing
by the people in power. And we know this continues
into the modern day easily.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Yeah. I mean, the ACLU called for an investigation of
possible Denver PD agents attempting to incite violence against police
during the two thousand and eight Democratic National Convention, and
someone who's a member of law enforcement or a faction
of the government could absolutely be considered an agent provocateur.
(32:31):
Undercover officers are often known to use tactics to kind
of escalate these protests, especially in the United States. Officially,
they're there to maintain the peace and protect everyone involved,
but that absolutely changes when someone associated with the law
purposefully tries to spark violence by damaging property or urging
(32:56):
peaceful protesters. To that point you made earlier ben about
the Muslim community trying to kind of entrap or incite.
I guess in trap maybe is too loaded a term.
Peaceful protesters to attack police or damage property.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And We saw an example of this in two thousand
and seven that's included in our video where in Canada
there was a pretty large peaceful protest occurring and three
men who were wearing all black and covering their faces,
and at least one of them was carrying a rock,
and they, you know, appeared to be acting very aggressive
(33:32):
towards police and they were called out by the peaceful protesters.
And you can watch videos on this right now, you
can check it out, and you can just see how
those men then crossed the police line and were it
looked like they were being arrested perhaps, but they were,
you know, just taken away to somewhere else, probably went
(33:55):
back to their post.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Who knows theatrically arrested, I would say for sure.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
And even right now, I mean, there's obviously so much
information and everyone's got a camera, you know, on their phone,
so there's there's a flood of videos and information that's
out there surrounding the protests that they're going on right now.
But I saw a video where it was someone calling
out the police for damaging their own car. It's it's
a video where you can literally see a police SUV
(34:22):
type vehicle and a gentlemen in police uniforms standing on
top of it and smashing the window themselves and and
damaging the car. You know, it was in the distance.
Perhaps it's it's easy to misconstrue what's actually going on,
but that certainly was the impression that the person making
the video had. They called them out and said, I
(34:43):
see what you're doing. I see what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
One common question would be how do piles of bricks
conveniently end up on sidewalks approaching you know, approaching a
protests And you will see people claiming that it is
in fact law enforcement that's doing that. But there's another
question here too that we need to outline. Should be
It may be painfully obvious, but we need to outline it.
(35:07):
What is the goal here for an agent provocateur? Who
are these people who are camouflaging themselves physically and ideologically
in order to perpetrate this counterintelligence, these acts of deceit. Well,
there can be more than one aim. First, the first
aim is, as as you guys mentioned earlier, to somehow
(35:31):
make incredibly violent crackdowns by law enforcement seem not just
justified but inevitable, to make them seem to be the
right sort of thing to do. The police in this
country are and have been heavily militarized in a process that,
(35:52):
by the way, occurred in step with massive defunding of education.
I'm just gonna point that out. And the second goal
would be too discredit a movement because again, like we've said,
we can't see it enough. Watch watch your local news.
And if if one thing happens that would be violent.
If one thing happens that fits the definition of you know,
(36:15):
that which bleeds is that which leads, then that is
what the media will tend to talk about. And they will, uh,
they will tend to it. Sounds like in pain with
a broadbrush, but there is a common prevalence here of
focusing on that sort of stuff, and then when that happens,
(36:36):
that is all the news cycle talks about. There's no
more talk of what what the aims of the protest were,
what kind of what kind of change would the protesters
like to see? What kind of world do we want
to live in? It's just a target get robbed.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Yeah, It's a very easy way of reframing the narrative
and bearing the lead and changing the conversation. It's a
way of hijacking that cause and turning it into demonizing
the byproducts of that cause, which may very well have
been entirely peaceful, but then are completely reframed, Like we
(37:16):
were talking about earlier, how you can discredit a movement
with purely just with rhetoric and the way that you
refer to things, and with the news cycle, and that
starts in positions of power and often filters down to
the news organizations.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I would just say, I'm in a position where I've
been looking at a lot of archival footage of the
civil rights movement in the assassination of doctor Martin Luther King,
and what you're talking about here, guys, is exactly what
you can see in the reporting that immediately follows the
nineteen sixty eight assassination of doctor Martin Luther King, where
there was such anger and fear and unrest that immediately
(37:55):
followed that assassination that there were massive protests. There was
you know, to an extent, some a bit of I
don't know how you describe it, just there were a
lot of people on the streets, and there was smashing
of windows and breaking into of stores that occurred. But
(38:15):
the framing on this, you know, very dated at this point.
Media and mass media that was coming out and reporting
about it. It's all framed on the you know quote
looting and the very similar way that you're seeing today
looting in riots.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Well, it's it's a way of saying, oh, if you're
going to behave like this, you don't deserve the change
that you so desperately seek, you know, because look at
the way you're behaving. You know, if you really deserved
this thing that you want, you would go about it
a different way. That's me speaking like as the voice
of you know, the powers that be, and that's the
(38:53):
way the conversation is attempted.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
To be steered.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
And speaking of steering the conversation, I'm going to take
us back to an aim of agent provocateurs that needs
to be said. Okay, and this is something that this
is something that is terrifying, but it is also real
at least in terms of an aim, and that is
the goal of not just strengthening a rationalization for the
(39:19):
actions of the oppositional forces, but to spark a larger conflict.
I'm not talking about, you know, making a situation where
innocent people are arrested, which agent provocateurs do I'm talking
about creating something that goes beyond the scope of a
single protest, widespread unrest and violence, a coup, a civil war.
(39:41):
There are groups. There are are groups, now you can
find them. Robert Evans has done some excellent reporting on
this where where there are groups that are openly advocating
to push things toward a civil war. I cannot recommend
his podcast, it could happen enough. I do suggest you
check it out as soon as you have the time.
(40:03):
And these are just a few examples. We have more
specific examples, including first party confessions that said, yes, I
did this, I did this on purpose. Here's why.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
In twenty eleven, The Guardian reported that a gentleman named
Patrick Howley, who was the assistant editor at the American Spectator,
actually admitted to having infiltrated and occupy Wall Street protest
that was held at the Smithsonians National Air and Space Museum,
specifically with the aim of discrediting it. And here's a
quote directly from the man himself. Quote, as far as
(40:39):
anyone knew, I was part of this cause, a cause
that I had infiltrated the day before in order to
mock and undermine in the pages of the American Spectator.
And I wasn't giving up before I had my story.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, if you continue reading on in this article, it
describes how there were guards at the protest, you know,
officers essentially, who used pepper spray on a lot of
the protesters who were attempting to enter into the museum.
And when you look at Halley's account, you know, he
continues on and condemns the protesters and this is what
(41:14):
he says. Quote, he condemns their lack of nerve to
confront authority, and he he himself wanted to escalate things
like that was kind of the point he was, was
fully determined to do that, and he rushed, he rushed
past the security guards into the museum. And it's it's
(41:35):
crazy too if you go back and you try and
find his official accounting of it or the story that
he wrote about it, because I was unable to find
an undoctored version of it. I can only find it
in this or I guess a version of it like
this in the Guardian.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
And just really quickly, The American Spectator is a far
right conservative publication.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, your pere's the magazine, Uh so altered the story
right and then pulled it, tried to pull it entirely,
but it had already been reported in papers of note
the Washington Post, had been reported in online sources that
are opposed to far right publications, places like fire Dog, Lake,
(42:20):
Daily Coasts. We mentioned the earlier example of agent provocateur
or undercovers in New York, but there's another specific instance
that resulted in actual criminal charges. This person was convicted,
they went to prison.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
An undercover motorcycle officer, an unnamed undercover motorcycle officer was
caught on video breaking into a car window and actually
assaulting the driver of a vehicle that had hit another
motorcycle and in twenty fifteen he was sent to prison
for second degree assault, coercion, riot, and criminal mischief.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
And just to continue on here, we haven't finished talking
about the different kinds of Asia provocateurs here. There are
different versions. In one of them, Ben you already mentioned,
called or a tactic at least called astroturfing.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Astroturfing is when something that appears to be a grassroots
on the ground movement or community is in fact the
creation of, often a front company or political institution that
is funneling power from the status quo into their so
(43:37):
called protest. Again, it's camouflage. Some people who appear to
protest are paid to do so, where they're being organized
by front groups that are funded by powerful corporations, powerful institutions.
There's an article I quite like and recommend from the
La Times, and this tells the story of this an
(43:59):
old one who this from twenty eighteen. It tells the
story of a firm called Crowds on Demand. Have you
guys heard of these people?
Speaker 3 (44:06):
No, Ben, I've never heard of that. What tell me
about it?
Speaker 1 (44:10):
So Crowds on Demand is firm based or was at
the time, a firm based in Beverly Hills that hires protesters.
Back in the day, you could go to its website
and you would see that it provides its clients quote protests, rallies,
flash mobs, paparazzi events, other inventive pr stunts. We provide everything,
(44:32):
including the people, the materials, and even the ideas. But
what kind of stuff have they been hired to do?
They're hiring actors to do things like lobby the City
Council of New Orleans on behalf of power plants, or
to act like fake fans for life coaches at conferences
(44:54):
in LA. It runs the gamut. There was also someone
who you know, there was a low suit filed that
said the Crowds on Demand organization does much more shady stuff.
And you know, we can make this an episode of
its own, but it has to be mentioned here.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, I agree, this is an entire episode. You have
probably read things online, either rumors or purported facts about
various powerful people using such organizations like Crowds on Demand
to get people either to political rallies or to you know,
(45:36):
stand outside of a building in Washington, DC or something.
You know, you undoubtedly have seen that stuff going around,
and let's just say we're going to continue to look
into it.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Again. These are facts. This is happening. This is a
for people who are unconcerned with the ethics. This is
a good business for them to be in. They are
a kind of what is called an opportunists. The people
who start at Crowds on Demand are opportunists. There's a
different thing that I think will qualify as opportunists in
(46:09):
this realm of navigating how protests work and how these
bad actors work in them bad actors. Then I guess
is a poor choice of words given crowds on demand.
But of course there are opportunists involved. When you see
reports talking specifically to the people who for some reason say,
(46:35):
you know, I don't support this cause because I see
it depicted as you know, associated with acts of violence.
Opportunists are real. It's part of human nature. And think
about it. If you want to rob a store, for instance,
and there is a protest going on, or unrest or
a riot in a neighborhood, right, what better time? What
(46:59):
better time to strike? Law enforcement is distracted, possibly overwhelmed,
possibly in the midst of harming civilians. Typical response times
are just going to be slower depending on your location.
And if you want to rob a store located in
the same area as a protest, you can potentially get
the power of numbers on your side.
Speaker 5 (47:20):
Then there's a lot of videos. I don't know if
opportunitists is the right word here, but of folks that
are doing graffiti, whether it's Black Lives Matter graffiti or
like you know, a cab you know, the term of
abuse for all cops or bastards and all of this
kind of graffiti that we're seeing now, there's lots of
video circulating where actual peaceful protesters are walking up to
(47:44):
these individuals doing this and saying, why are you doing this?
We didn't ask you to do this, Like people of
color are walking up to you know, maybe white marchers
or whatever who are doing this and say, who asked
you to do this? This is not helpful. And there's
a lot of these videosating where you know, folks are
getting in each other's faces because they're saying, oh, well,
I did it because I support the cause, and then
(48:07):
they're basically saying, well, this is not helping us, this
is not supporting the cause. So I don't know if
you would blump those folks in as opportunitists or if
they're just maybe overstepping I don't know, but it definitely
some folks just want to watch the world burn and
want to get out there and cause trouble. And what
better opportunity to be able to go out there and
do that than, you know, masquerading behind a cause.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
So there you have it. There are just numerous examples
of someone, some group, some individual infiltrating a peaceful protest
movement for one reason or another, for varying you know,
seeking varying outcomes, for doing so. So let's say that
(48:50):
you find yourself in the midst of a protest, peaceful
or otherwise, what do you need to do to prepare yourself.
We're going to talk about that right after a word
from our sponsor.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
And at the top of this section, it's important to
thank everybody who reached out to us or to the
show to ask about this information. We're going to run
through real quick, some basic things, some basic resources for protests. Again,
this is not in any way meant to tell anyone
(49:31):
anything about how to protest. These are safety tips that
have been time tested, right, and protests are approved. Organizations
like Amnesty International have these brilliant handy checklists that you
can and should consult before hitting the streets. This is
not the time for improvisation. Here are a few tips.
(49:54):
We've got a physical checklist, right, Some basic things you
should consider when testing clothing, right.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, ideally you want some kind of sturdy booths, some
shoes they're in.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
A stand up to having to run.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
And also be careful not to wear you know, maybe
military surplus boots that are often worn by undercovered police officers,
because you you don't want to be accused of that
for sure.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Sturdy pants are important.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Long sleeve top is going to be important, and something
you can use to cover your face of your head
in case tear gas or something else is released that's
going to make it difficult for you to breathe.
Speaker 5 (50:30):
Yeah, and you know this is almost like it reminds
me of our go bag episode. You know, these are
just very functional tips of things that maybe you wouldn't
necessarily think of, but that are going to you know,
go a long way for you. Water in a plastic
bottle seems obvious, but a squirt top if possible, because
you may be able to use that to flush out
chemicals from your eyes. That's going to be really important,
(50:51):
and that giving that stream a little more force is
going to help make that happen and flush out tear
gas potentially from your eyes, which, as it turns out,
is like a powder that is that is converted into
a mist. It's not even a liquid, So it's literally
like washing out you know, solids that have found their
way into your eyes. So the only way to do
(51:12):
that is you know, what better alternative to an eye
wash station like in a science lab than a pressure,
you know, propelled stream of water from a from a
squirt top water bottle. And also a little additive would
be to have some baking soda on hand that you
can add to that water solution three teaspoons of powder
(51:33):
for every eight and a half ounces of liquid. And
then you know, just stuff like snacks to keep your
energy up, you know, like like a kind bar, like
like you know those what are those called cliff bars?
Things like that, anything that like is very nutrient dense
in a small package.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
One quick important note about whether or not you should
bring your ID or an ID with you to a protest.
The laws may vary state by state, so be sure
to check in advance before you hit the streets. We'll
talk a little bit about this in organization, but the
one I would say one crucial point to remember is
(52:12):
to physically write a contact number on your arm for
legal assistance. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you'll
have a phone or that you'll have your phone working,
because you may be offered a chance if you're arrested
entertained to make one phone call, and if you don't
have that number with you, you may not be able to
(52:34):
find it, So write it on yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Definitely bring some kind of money in the United States,
it's going to be paper. You might need this for
some kind of emergency situation, transportation, food, whatever it is.
Just make sure you don't carry a bunch of cash,
because as we said, there are going to be undoubtedly
some opportunists around, or at least in a lot of cases,
(52:57):
there will be some who may see that as an
opportunity to take your money.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
And to be clear that that term could apply to
unethical police officers or law enforcement as.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
Well, speaking of which, you know, you want to have
a watch, you want to have paper and a pen.
You don't want to necessarily rely on your phone. But
I also saw a really interesting point where you may
want to turn off face recognition unlocking from your phone
because a bad actor law enforcement agent could just hold
(53:28):
it up to your face and then have access to
your entire your your entire contact list, any potential notes
that you have, you know, and could just go through
your whole life on your phone and use that information
against you.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
I would say perhaps a track phone would be a
good idea rather than your actual phone, because you know,
as we've talked about in previous episodes, there is tracking technology.
When there are a lot of people gathered in something
like this, especially if it's a political protest where law
enforcement of one kind or another, maybe tracking to see
who is there.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
An airplane mode doesn't really make a difference, to be
honest with you. The only thing that would make a
big difference it would be physically removing the battery or
placing a phone in a faraday cage, essentially a basic
first aid kid if you have room. Remember you're there
to support and help your fellow protesters and help your cause,
(54:27):
not there to get some kind of congratulatory selfie. Last thing,
eye protection. Don't wear contacts. These are small, very basic things.
They're there to protect you. What about an organization?
Speaker 5 (54:41):
Really quickly, just back to social media. I thought it
was very interesting how there was this blackout Tuesday situation
where people were posting these black squares on Instagram and
there was very quickly a backlash against that because people
were using the hashtag black lives matter, and it really
it is so important. These hashtags seems frivolous when you
think about, Oh, social media is all about, you know,
(55:03):
showing out and being seen and you know, kind of
lifestyle stuff. But when it comes to stuff like this,
those kinds of hashtags are how that information is organized.
So if you co opt a hashtag like black Lives
Matter for a black square, that's sort of a you know,
I don't want to call it performative, it's definitely an
act of solidarity. And I did it myself, but very
quickly people started posting, yo, don't use that hashtag because
(55:27):
you're erasing other people's actually valuable information that is using
that hashtag, and that's organized, you know, ways to search for,
you know, up to the minute information. So they created
a you know, a hashtag blackout Tuesday. So I just
think that's interesting how important social media is and all.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Of this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
Another another important basic thing to be aware of is organization.
You know, as you said at the top of this,
it's not the time for improvisation. When you set off,
have a timetable, have people who are not at the
protest aware of your location and where you plan to
be afterwards. You can also have accountability with your groups
(56:11):
that you go with. Have a meeting spot that is
outside where you think the protest will be, so you
can confirm everyone's safety, and so you can have a destination.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
And a plan.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Situational awareness that a protest is highly important. We would
recommend avoiding drugs or alcohol or anything else that's going
to impair you know, your judgment or reaction time, and
you always have to be able to react to that
danger immediately and you know, not be held back by
whatever substance you're doing.
Speaker 5 (56:42):
Not to mention, you don't want to have some contraband
on you that can be also used against you if
you are searched and then that gives you know, law
enforcement a reason to lock you up.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah, print out or obtain what's called a bust card.
This is think of like it's like a very small,
easy to carry piece of paper that bullet points out
your legal rights, some does and don't contact numbers. You know,
you can find many examples of this from different countries
(57:15):
and it's a handy thing to have. Of course, you know,
the question there is who has a printer?
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (57:20):
You may be in a situation where you find people
who are distributing these for.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Free, and lastly, just at all times to be ready
to you know, help out someone who's next to you
who is protesting. You can provide support for people in
all sorts of different ways, you know, especially if there's
somebody who you know is getting tired, who has some
kind of medical condition, who is dehydrated, or has been
injured for one reason or another. Just remember to you know,
(57:48):
be there for everyone, and also to not not let
bad actors go unnoticed.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Let's talk about something equally important, which is maybe even
more important, which is what not to do. So in
some of our conversation, you know, it's obvious that people
have different opinions and everybody has the same specific answers,
but these things are pretty solid first, and I think
this answers a lot of questions people have about what
they should or shouldn't bring. Don't carry things that you
(58:17):
cannot afford to lose. Do not assume everyone is there
for the same reason as you.
Speaker 5 (58:23):
Yeah, I think we've more than covered. That's sort of
the whole point of this episode is that there are
many reasons, many agendas that might lead people to come
to these types of events, and a lot of them
are not in your best interests. People are not aligned
with what you are there for a lot of the time,
So just never assume, and don't wear things that can
(58:45):
easily be grabbed. You know, you might want to put
your hair up in a tight bun rather than wearing it.
And pigtails or a ponytail, or something that can be
used to drag you to the ground, for example, or
you know pieces of clothing that are very baggy that
could be grabbed as well. That would be something that
you would want to avoid.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
And there are a lot of things you could put
on your body. A lot of them are moisturizers or
would be used as some kind of moisturizer, sometimes sunscreen,
mineral oils or vazolines. These things can actually trap some
of the chemicals that may be sprayed in your direction
or released and hit you and it will stick to
your skin and you know it will essentially amplify the effects.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
So do not don't do that.
Speaker 1 (59:31):
And this is difficult, but do your best to think critically.
Be aware that misinformation as well as active disinformation. Misinformation
is kind of something that's accidentally not true. Disinformation is
something that's purposely not true. That's the best way to
remember it. Both of these can proliferate at an extremely
quick rate, especially when we see lines of traditional normal
(59:56):
communication breaking down. And last, do not go alone if
you can help it.
Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
Yeah, I would say that's pretty important at the very
least if you have to go alone, make sure someone's
got your back remotely and that they know where you are,
and that you can reach somebody to let them know
if things go south.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
We hope this information is helpful. Again, there are more resources,
many many organizations that have these bus cards, that have
these checklists, that have recommendations dos and don't please do
look into these. And again, there is one main takeaway
(01:00:38):
from this episode. The conspiracy to discredit and to escalate
protests counter to the aims of a protest are real.
This stuff does happen. Agent provocateurs do exist. They're not
some sort of mythical beast. The real ones can operate
successfully and they can get away with.
Speaker 5 (01:00:59):
It and just really quick to sew up a couple
of things that we sort of foreshadowed, like you know
there Again, there's a lot of information moving very quickly,
especially right now as things have escalated with our situation
in the United States. But the notion of you know,
things like piles of bricks showing up and old model
(01:01:20):
police cars being put out like as bait or something,
a lot of that has been largely discredited. That's not
to say that it's not possible that these things are
are real. And it's also a slippery slope when you
talk about blaming a movement or a protest on external
(01:01:41):
forces that are not you know, germane to that outcry
that surrounds that particular protest. It's a way of like
kind of like neutering, you know, the power of that
movement by saying, oh, it's actually being caused, not by
the real reason that it's being caused, but by something else.
And I think we've done a good job today of
(01:02:01):
differentiating those things, but I just want to make you know,
make sure that that that's clear.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
And we have to absolutely remember that when we are
on social media, whatever platform you use, you have to
be extremely vigilant when analyzing and sharing stuff. Whatever the
post is, no matter how much you agree with it,
you just have to be careful and really analyze it.
Because there have been, as you said, there, you know,
(01:02:27):
a lot of false reports that have come out essentially
as rumors that have just spread across social media. And
you know, we kind of you mentioned the bricks. There
have been several examples posted out there that have been
proven to not have anything to do with you know,
purposeful planting for uses with protesters or during the protests
(01:02:50):
to escalate things.
Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
I made a note here just to call to call
out the one that occurred in Sherman Oaks, California, where
there were these metal.
Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
Enclosures filled with stone.
Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Ohones, and BuzzFeed News and some other people did some
you know, looking into this and found out that this
was actually a security or these were security structures for
a Jewish community building in Sherman Oaks, California, and they'd
been installed like a year ago, prior to the protests.
But that doesn't mean that every instance where bricks have
(01:03:21):
been found or some kind of projectile, heavy projectiles have
been found stashed near a protest area doesn't mean that
every one of those is just an innocuous thing. It
means you have to analyze each one of them individually.
Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Yea, especially because, as I said earlier, protests nowadays occur
in digital space. Please please please check out the earlier
work on the proliferation of bots. Russian and non Russian alike.
Foreign and domestic forces are gaming the system, They're muddying
the waters, they're altering the narrative with great success in
(01:03:57):
the past and the president is no different, and the
future probably won't be either. I have a lighthearted example
of this. My favorite current example of this phenomenon is
the K pop fans online who are flooding far right
wing hashtags with some of their favorite Korean pop. That is,
(01:04:21):
it is fantastic to see. I recommend checking that out
if you want a little bit of a pick me
up in these these incredibly terrible times. I mean, this
is these last few months have been the longest year ever.
Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Yeah, it really has been.
Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Whoever controls this whole timeline thing that we're living in
this multiverse is really piling on right.
Speaker 5 (01:04:44):
Now, cut it out, whoever you are, Geez Louise.
Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
And then just to just you know, for a final note,
and this is something that I have a lot of
questions around because again we were talking about, like with
social media, so much information is able to be kind
of hijacked and used in a way that's it's very shareable.
Therefore it is proliferated, but it could absolutely and often
is misinformation. But one final example is, you know a
(01:05:12):
lot of rumors going around, you know, on on social
media about groups such as what's referred to collectively as
antifa going out to suburban areas or rural areas to
carry out acts of violence. And I just want to
take this opportunity to clarify something that I've personally been
a little in the dark about. The notion of antifha
(01:05:33):
I understand to mean anti fascist, which sounds like a
positive thing to me, being anti fascist, but it's been
kind of commodified as a term of abuse and almost
taken on the tone of like, this is a terrorist group,
the antifa. But my understanding is that no such group
per se exists. It's not a moniker that is associated
(01:05:56):
with like a particular you know, mission, statement or group
of people. It's just kind of the amorphous collective. So
can you just talk a little bit about what antifa
means and how it's being used, just to give folks
a little perspective on that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
I would, you know, with having limited understanding of this,
I would just say that it's been used in the
media recently, and you know, in the past couple decades
to really represent any number of smaller groups that would
consider themselves perhaps anarchists or or people who are against
(01:06:33):
the the status quo systems that are set up and
just wish to see change there. But you know, it
really depends on which organization is reporting at the time
or who's talking about them.
Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
I believe that I may have mentioned this earlier. The
phrase has a lot in common with the phrase anonymous,
an earlier activist group that has recently been back in
the news. The Achilles heel of this kind of grouping
is that there is obviously no official certification to be
(01:07:09):
an anti fascist group, and the key is there is
also no official certification to claim oneself a member of anonymous.
I will say, if you want to dehumanize or vilify,
or you know, use a thought terminating cliche to get
past people's critical thinking faculties, then of course you make
(01:07:31):
a term. You make a term that is pretty short,
it's easy to understand, and that itself, while being a portmanteau,
is not you know, an existing word, or you change
it right, And this is a tactic that's employed often.
I would like to I would like to note several
things that we have not covered in this episode. We've
(01:07:53):
not covered antifa. I think the anti fascism organization, the
evolution of that term, deserves its own episode, as do
specific instances of people attempting to capitalize on a movement
or protest for their own ends. Splinter groups, you know,
militia are in there. There are a lot of Internet
(01:08:16):
warriors who are talking on a forum and a certain
amount of them are going into protests to attempt to
push their agenda. These are things that we have to
cover in a future episode and we need your help.
Speaker 5 (01:08:30):
Yeah, so let us know what you think. You can
write to us online in the various social media spots
we are Conspiracy stuff or conspiracy Stuff show on the
usual platforms Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and you can also join
our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy, where there's
a lot of real time conversation that goes on around
(01:08:52):
every episode we do and beyond.
Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
You can give us a phone call if you haven't
had your phone with you. Our number is one eight
three std WYTK. We would encourage you to call us
if possible, to either report on something you're seeing, no
matter where you are and what you're doing, or to
just give us an idea for an episode, or just
tell us tell us what you think about all of
(01:09:16):
this stuff. And if you don't want to do any
of that stuff, but you still want to contact us,
you can always send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
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