CLASSIC: The Search For Bigfoot

For centuries, cultures around the world have told tales of "wild men" lurking in the woods, and reports of these creatures continue in the modern day. So what exactly is Bigfoot? Join the guys as they interview David Bakara, the creator of Expedition: Bigfoot, to learn more about his search for the creature and the inspiration behind his museum. They don’t want you to read our book.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've returned with another classic episode. This one pairs nicely
with our previous classic, where we asked whether there are
any large unknown animals out there that have yet to
be discovered. We focused on the most famous cryptid uh
in history, really Bigfoot. This one where you interview are

(00:21):
Pal David Baker. Oh, yes, the creator of Expedition Bigfoot,
which if you're ever traveling through North Georgia, we highly
recommend you check out. Yeah. It's like Epcot Center level
um Museum of Oddities and fascinating Bigfoot related. One of
my favorite parts of that thing, by the way, is
the recordings section where you can actually put headphones on

(00:43):
and listen to alleged Bigfoot sighting. That's the one. Yes, Yeah,
let's get right into it. From umos to psychic powers
and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You
can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't
want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show.

(01:15):
My name is Matt, my name is No. They call
me Ben. You are you? And that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. Let's travel back in
time briefly for a second. Can I do my waynes World?
Grip please do big perfect yea, yeah, yeah, We're there now,
We're there, We're there, We're we're near Ela j Georgia.

(01:36):
Several months back when the three of us, along with
our compatriot Christopher Haciotis, traveled to see Expedition Bigfoot with
an exclamation mark, do you remember? Do you remember? Guys?
How could I forget? And if you were not lucky
enough to be with us when we made that first

(01:57):
expedition to Expedition Bigfoot, never feared because we made a documentary, right,
short documentary available for free on Amazon Prime, where we
interviewed the creator of Expedition Bigfoot, David Bickhara himself. That's correct, man.
He told us some incredible stories. I mean, some of

(02:19):
that stuff about Bigfoot going across the highway and truckers
seeing it, Bigfoot shimmering in and out. It was incredible stuff. Again,
if you haven't seen it, go there now. And it
was sort of like a shallow, sort of a toe
dip into the Bigfoot waters. But today we are lucky
enough to have the very same David Bokara in the
studio with us to take a deep dive into said waters. Hello,

(02:42):
all right, today, sir, I'm great, great to be back
with you. Oh yeah, thank you so much for I mean,
because one of the things that a lot of folks
wrote to us about after they saw the documentary, as
they asked us where the podcast was going to be,
where was where was the audio version and of this.
So we want to thank you so much for taking

(03:03):
the time to come and talk with us and our
audience today. We have a couple of questions for you,
and mainly what we'd like to do is uh, learn
more about your story, learn more about your quest learn
more about expedition Bigfoot, And I guess the most the
most logical place to start is uh, if no one

(03:25):
had ever heard a bigfoot or YETI or an abominable snowman,
skunk gape or skunk ape. Yeah, and they asked you,
what is Bigfoot? What would you say? Bigfoot has been
here for a long time to be very difficult to
think at this point to find somebody that had not
heard about him. But I could answer your questions by

(03:46):
saying you could pick up about any book on folklore
in your local community. I can almost guarantee you that
a Bigfoot like creature is gonna pop up in there.
They're really all over every small town. They've been writing
a bottom since they're late eighteen hundreds. Easily you can
find them at all kinds of books. But it's any
Harry helmeted that Rome's North America and every continent on

(04:11):
the planet you can find. They all have different names
for them. They've been writing a bottom for hundreds of years.
You can find them at artwork from the early European period.
The Germans French had all kinds of wood carvings depicting
the wild man, so they've been here for a very
long time. It's probably gonna be pretty hard to find
somebody that hasn't heard about the big hairy man of

(04:31):
the woods. Aren't there even Native American sculptures and masks
that were made of a creature of this sort? Yeah? Absolutely,
and um, it's funny when you look at it. It's
the only mask you look at and Native American art
that always has pursed lips. When you see a mask
with purse lips, it's almost always gonna be a sasquatch

(04:52):
of the Harry type creature. Because they always spoke of
these things making strange whooping sounds or howling sounds. So
almost every time me see the face mask of a sasquatch,
they'll have purse lips. So these organisms, despite being considered
cryptids right or unidentified animals by a lot of the

(05:14):
academy for lack of a better word, uh, these organisms
have been uh acknowledged or described in uh not just folklore,
but anecdotes and stories going back across multiple cultures and continents.
Oh yes, yeah, absolutely, Um, the Himalayas have been talking

(05:34):
about him to every continent has them. I think if
people ever really delved, it took an hour, actually thirty
minutes out of the day because everything is so available
on Google on the internet. Now, if you just typed,
simply typed in bigfoots of the World, you'd be there
for two days reading that. Oh trust me you will,
especially if you're about to make a documentary about Bigfoot.

(05:55):
Oh wow, it's a rabbit hole. So many zoologists or
biologists or cryptozoologists tend to describe creatures or organisms in
terms of their diet or you know, like the almost
like the specs of the creature, like the diet, the behavior,

(06:16):
which I think will be a big part of this interview.
And um, the the physical range or territory. Is there
is there any information that you have encountered regarding diet
or range. The diet closely resembles that of a grizzly
bear or black bear. Um. I think that's how they've
managed to narrow or best guestimate the population, which would

(06:39):
be a minimum of up to about ten thousand in
North America. Loan, because we figure with their size, their
metabolism would be similar to that of a bear, which
would require approximate ten thousand calories a day. They are
prevalent all over the coastline of the United States. Not
the only place you would see much less reports of

(06:59):
them would be in the desert and in the in
the midwest of the United States. Okay, the flat lands.
M h. I got a question for you. So you
talk about how their metablism is similar to a bear
and their stature would be similar to a bear. How
do you discount the notion that maybe people that say
they were seeing a big foot weren't seeing some other
creature like a bear that it can stand on two legs.

(07:21):
Oh yeah, I'm sure a few of the sidings that
people that that think they saw a big foot probably
was a bear, because a bear can't stand on two feet,
and I think somebody from the city or somebody that
isn't familiar with bears could get that could be mixed
up like that. But I want a hunter who's hunting
bears reports seeing one. Um, I'm quite sure that he

(07:41):
knows the difference between a standing bear and uh an
eight or nine or ten foot long sasquatch. Bears have
very short arms when they're standing U sasquatch when they
stand up with their hands hang below their knees, and
sasquatch is a very strange, very unique form of locomotion.
They can run incredibly fast on two legs, and then

(08:03):
they can transition to four legs and run even faster.
And as far as I know, I know of in
no other animal that can transition from quadruped to biped
and then back down again. Talk a little bit about
some of the more let's say mystical abilities I guess,
or more um, supernatural abilities that have been ascribed to

(08:24):
some big foot sightings. You mentioned things like teleportation even
or some sort of psychic abilities to manipulate things. Can
you talk about that a little bit? Yeah? Sure, UM,
Now I've personally never experienced any of these things before,
but I do not discount them just because I have
not experienced them. I've stood in front of some wonderfully

(08:44):
honest sincere witnesses. Some of them, even though the event
happened years before, they start to relive it and they'll
they'll start to cry. Um, it's it's just amazing when
you start to relive that kind of fear, you can
see it. It's funny. One of the Indian legends about
the Sasquatch was when these young Sasquatch had become adults,

(09:04):
that their test was they had to stand in front
or run in front of somebody walking on a trail
and wave their arms in front of that person, whether
it be a hiker or traveler, and that person could
not see them. That was that was a right of adulthood.
That's when you could do that, you were graduated in adulthood.
And that's an old Indian legend. Like a camouflage of sorts,

(09:26):
I've seen some videos online that supposedly are some kind
of creature that is blending in like The Predator, I mean,
very very much like you see from the movie The Predator. Yeah, exactly. Um,
And there are creatures that do something like that in
nature that we know of and have been cataloged. Um
it I don't know of any I No, I don't

(09:48):
know of any ape. I don't know of any hominid
they could do that. But you know, who's to say
that biology doesn't exist. Well, exactly, there's the cuttle fish
and the octopus can both mimic their surroundings. They change
the structure and the texture of their skin, and they
use the they can change the pigment the color to
exactly match the background, which is really all these things

(10:10):
are doing. They're not really disappearing. I mean I have
had people say they do disappear, but nobody has any
proof of that. But people do say that they mimic
their surroundings. We can almost see through them unless they're moving.
When the movie you can see them. So there's there
is some science behind the generality that these things can
mimic their surroundings and you can't see them. But um,

(10:33):
there's a lot of good people that there's and there's
a few good videos out now where people have got
some of this behavior. So what you're actually looking at
is is something moving in the woods, and when it's stopped,
it's almost invisible. When it starts to walk again, you
can clearly see a bipedal creature walking and it's just
sort of bending the light so you're not getting a

(10:54):
clear exact view of what's behind it, but it's pretty
darn closed. But what I said, when they stand still
and visit bull, but when they move you can see them.
That's interesting because full disclosure, I am not a biologist,
so I don't want to get too too deep into this,
but um, it's fascinating that you bring up the abilities
of uh an octopus or a cuddle fish, because the

(11:19):
the cells that manipulate coloration on those creatures are called chromatophores,
and I think I don't know of any mammal that
as crematophors. I think the coloration carrying cells are melanocytes,
which is about all I know, as I'm sure biologists

(11:40):
trying to in my head when I'm thinking about that,
it would be akin to the skin cells I want
to say on a mammal, which you know, if you've
got a lot of hair around that skin, it's hard
for me to fathom being able to camouflage the hair
itself unless they also have some kind of specialized cells
on them. Um. Yeah, that's fascinating, man. We we also

(12:02):
before we get as you can tell, we have a
lot of questions. We have no no dearth of questions here.
But one of the things that we really wanted to
explore with you today is your inspiration for creating this museum.
The thing that got us, I think when we first

(12:23):
well before we even got into the door, you know
where there's the setups with this uh, this very adventurous
music playing and it's cinematic uh, and it's compelling, and
it's sort of uh immersed this instantly, and it made
us wonder, like from the jump, what inspired you? When

(12:46):
I was twelve years old, I went and saw that
movie like so many other folks did, The Legend of
Boggy Creek Charles Pierce Steps is actually the first film
he'd ever made, and um, I think it gross like
twenty six million dollars, which is practically I've heard of,
uh concerning what a shoestring budget was. He even have
to pay actors and used mostly their witnesses. I think

(13:06):
that's what made the film so credible was that a
lot of people portrayed in the film where the actual
witness that had happened to so it wasn't really a movie.
It was more of a docu drama. And everything in
the in the movie basically happened just the way he
laid it out, except for some minor changes. So my brother,
after we saw that movie, I think we were really
moved because the building was based on a true story

(13:29):
and the more we thought about, the more amazed I was.
I was growing up in Florida. We had the Everglades
just outside of us. My dad used to take us
air voting and whatnot. I just thought bizarre. I mean,
those things could be in the Everglades because it's so
similar to what Arkansas is, like the swamps in Arkansas.
So we just consumed everything we could as children, and
I mean everything, every TV show, every article, um over

(13:53):
the years. So that was my inspiration was that movie
Charles B. Pearson. He really did me a favorite because
here's this fella made this movie which if he would
have told anybody was making they would have said, my god,
you're wasting your money and your time. And here this
guy makes it his first movie and it's a huge
box office success. Because I think that people were lined

(14:14):
up to see this movie. There's some sort of very
built in curiosity about these creatures that most people wouldn't
even consciously acknowledge. But if you you put a movie
up like that, or it touches something, and I think
so there is a there's an innate curiosity about these

(14:34):
people just want to know. Just to jump in on
the the curiosity and the the thought of a big foot,
I think somewhere it taps into the fear of perhaps
not being the apex predator, that humans are currently on
the planet, that there is something bigger out there than us,

(14:55):
stronger than us, um that maybe has abilities beyond what
we can do, that we maybe couldn't even fight off.
And you know what's interesting about that is that the
shore over them over like the global statistic view, uh
Man is the most successful apex predator in has terms

(15:16):
of numbers, but in certain regions of the world, for
instance Far Eastern Siberia, being one man is not the
apex predator because the tigers are still around. Yeah, but
you still have technology, so like you yeah, okay, all right,
but you know, I think that's an interesting perspective and

(15:36):
I think it's valuable for this because it's very easy
for Uh, it's very easy for our species to exist
in sort of a bubble, you know what I mean.
Most people, uh, and this myself included. Most people are
not out hunting the food they eat, right, They're going
to a grocery store, and most people are as a result.

(16:00):
That's just one example. Most people are a little bit
further and further detached from the natural world, you know.
So I always thought it was fascinating when when people
would say, you know, when people would talk about apex predators,
But it sounds like Mr Piccard, It sounds like you're
saying that a bigfoot would not necessarily be a predatory creature, right,

(16:26):
Like it's because if it has the diet of a bear,
it's omnivorous, right, it would be omnivorous for sure. But
you can't define these creatures by normal zoological terms and classifications.
I've heard stories of There's one in particular story. I
fella wasn't hunting for hog from a tree stand and

(16:47):
he could see this family of hogs come under his stand,
probably seventy yards away. So I'm gonna get me. I'm
gonna get me a nice, a nice sow, or maybe
a nice little picklet. And as he's watching these things,
he's getting for a shot. And then you see something
jump to a tree off to the left, and it
jumps to another tree, and now he's not watching the
pigs anymore. He's watching this big hairy shape jump from

(17:10):
tree to tree. Wasn't walking, it was jumping from tree
to tree, hide behind the tree. Finally leaped into the
middle of these, grabbed a great big boar hog by
the leg, bashed it against a tree, then grabbed another
one with the other hand and stuffed and under his arms.
So he's got a live one squeal and under his arm,
he's got a big board he just beat to death,

(17:32):
sticks into his other arm, and then turns around and
looks at this guy in the tree as if that's
how you hunt pigs. Mine You see how it kind
of mixed it's it's it's all mixed up. It just
doesn't hardly make any sense their stories after stories like that,
where these things know you're in a tree stand or
they'll know you're hunting and they'll just kind of push

(17:53):
your buttons. So um, yeah, I mean, this could go
on and on with a very strange be behavior that
is not just doesn't go along with our classifications. So
in the in the in the museum, one thing that
we all noticed and spent a lot of time on
is that are the wealth of anecdotes right, the wealth

(18:17):
of witness testimonies, and there are also uh some recreated
scenes right in the museum. And I was wondering if
you could tell us in the audience a little bit
more about what can be found in the museum. You know,
that's a great question because like some museums, they they're
going to present thanks to you in one specific idea

(18:41):
or some fashion, and I work, well, we work hard
not to do that where I want to present everything
to you. I'm just gonna lay it out in front
of you because these creatures and their behavior so complex.
I'm getting ready to add six more exhibits back in
the conference room, and I'm making sure to mix them
up so that you're not just seeing a hair sample.

(19:02):
We're trying to present behavior to you that makes you
really think, wow, these things that they just they just
don't act like an animal. So if it's a little disturbing,
someone's a little scary. Um, I don't have anything in
there where they're hurting people I'll tell you what. I'll
just I'll kind of chet and I'm gonna tell you
one of these I'm working on as a fell out
in Falk, Arkansas. And um, he had a hundred twenty

(19:24):
pound Corsi dog. I mean it's sort of like a
pit bull on steroids because there's just tough, tough. These
things can take a bear down. And uh, this dog
at his was had just had babies, had just had puppies.
He lives out very close to the swamp, very far
out of town, and he had working in his back

(19:47):
gard went to and here's a growl coming from the
swamp and his little dog pound course, she bows all up.
She's getting ready to grab this thing, but she knows
she's got puppies in this little pin behind her. So, uh,
this gentleman has all kinds of bigfoot. He's already seen
two bigfoots in the area over the years. Lived there,
raised there his whole life. So he ends up leaving

(20:11):
going to town. Him his wife have they run to
town to get something. The dog goes back in her pen.
He goes to town. He comes back a few hours later,
just before dark. He said, as soon as I pulled
into my into my driveway. I knew that something was wrong,
he said. I couldn't put my finger up, but I
knew something was wrong. Say I get out my car,
went right to my right to this little area ten
by ten metal ship that I had built for the dog,

(20:33):
and something had barged its way, just tore right through
the galvanized steel, grabbed my huw pound dog that is
meaner than snot this, she is so mean, grabbed it
by her rear right leg and beat her against a
tree on both sides until all her bones were sticking out.
It actually ripped her rare quarter almost completely out man

(20:55):
and then of course it had stomped all her puppies
to death too, So whatever it was didn't eat her.
It just beat her against a tree five to six
ft up in a tree. I don't know what in
the world's gonna do that. I don't know any bear
or a human that's going to do that, but it's
one of those getting ready to go out there get
a piece of this of this pen to display. It's

(21:15):
quite possible that the way we're looking at it was
a horrible mean act. Maybe this bigfoot had a child
in the area and was not able to leave. And
in this and this dog, she wasn't penned up. She
was only in the pen to take ere her publish,
but she was free to roam during the day. It's
quite possible that this Bigfoot or whatever it was, was
a purely instinctual protective behavior. So we don't understand it.

(21:39):
But it's one of those things. I'm gonna ready to
go out. I'm going to get a piece of this gate.
It's gonna be mounted up there with the story. So
it's a little disturbing. But it's a complex story. And
I think I would be cheating people if I just
if I just laid it out to you as some
sort of a fairy tale. It's not a fairy tale.
And and it makes people think, Uh, there's lots of
other exhibits coming. I don't want to tell you. I

(22:00):
want you to come in and see them because they're
extremely surprising. Um. But that that's the kind of stuff
that we like. The people too, We want that, we
want those gears rolling. I mean, this is an interesting
jumping off point where we see Bigfoot so much in
pop culture. Obviously. One use of the mythology is in
horror movies, where you have like a stalker ish Bigfoot

(22:20):
that's like killing teens at a summer camp and I'll
at Jason Vorhees or something like that. And there's tons
of super schlocky movies. Uh, but Boggy Creek there were
several sequels, and then they're obviously ones that are more
focusing on Bigfoot as some sort of like you know,
murderous creature. Um. But it seems to me like you
feel like it's a much more compassionate, potentially compassionate, like

(22:43):
human like creature that protects it's young and isn't necessarily
out to overtly harm anybody unless it's involving, you know,
protecting its family. All right. Um. A good friend of mine,
Mark d Worth, who was an Ohio investigator for the
bof Furrow, he published her a report not too long
ago about a gentleman who's just retired from the bar.

(23:06):
He's a lawyer, and um, he never came out with
his story until after he retired for obvious reasons. And
when he was camping with his family in Kentucky when
he was about six seven years old, he became separated
from his family out in the woods and he was
crying and stumble around trying to get back to the campsite,
and he said, a giant Harry ape One picked me up,

(23:28):
carryving me back to the campsite. My parents weren't there.
They were out in the woods looking for me. And
he says that this I can't remember the exact if
this thing howled or it screamed, but that, but that
she dropped him off of that campsite. And the parents
came running back and he was there, and he said,
I told my parents that it was a giant Harry
ape Win picked me up and carried me, brought me
back here, and they all said, well, it must have

(23:50):
been a bear. He always said, no, mommy, it was
not a bear. So he kept that story to himself
until after he retired. He went on record when I
was very young saying that he remembers exactly what it
looked like and what it smelled like. It was not
a bear. It was a giant Harry woman that actually
saved him. So again here's another example to complete opposite

(24:13):
sides at the spectrum. And it's just another way, just
another reason that when a lot of people get into this,
you just can't walk away from it. It's the greatest
mystery and the heart. The more you dig, the more
complex it gets. You never really get a whole lot
more answers where you can nail it down, it just
gets more interesting. And speaking of digging, speaking of vocalizations noises,

(24:35):
we are going to continue exploring Bigfoot with David Pakara,
the creator of Expedition Bigfoot. After a word from our sponsor,
and we're back with David bakera of Expedition Bigfoot, the

(24:59):
curator and creator of the museum. Now, David, I want
to get into something that is highlighted at the museum,
and it's called the Sierra Sounds, and let's let's talk
about what exactly that is. So Ron Moore had spent
three years, uh he's an entrepreneur out in uh northern California,

(25:21):
and he's spent used to go hunting with these gentlemen
way out in this remote area and the Sierras couldn't
drive to it. You had to you had to take
horseback for miles and miles to this very treacherous trail
to get up to this area where they had a
small little it was not even a shack. They just
took a bunch of deadfall and stacked it up, kind
of made like a little shelter to get him out

(25:41):
of that, to get him out of the weather. And
they would spend a week there hunting. They had little
camp there. Every time they come they bring a little
bit more, a little bit more. They had a little
camp where they could cook up and they would hunt deer,
and it was like a kind of guy's getaway. It
wasn't very big at the shack, probably wasn't more than
ten by ten. It was just a little mean to Really,
I'm looking at it right now. It's like a little

(26:02):
wooden box with like a ladder kind of looking thing
on the slide of like a hatch, just a big log.
They roll out of the way to get in, and
then to shut it, they just roll it back into place.
And after a few years, uh, these fellows started hearing
some very strange noises and vocalizations coming. Something was coming
into the camp, rattling the pots around, and then they
started finding some very strange footprints. Finally realized what probably

(26:25):
was going on. So they had contacted a fella named
al Berry who was a reporter for one of the
local newspapers there, and now they told all the story
and he was like, this is these guys are hoaxing.
This can't be really happening. There's just no way. He said,
I'll go, but I'm just I know they're just jerking
me around. So he probably at the top of the

(26:45):
line sony recording equipment. They get out there, they set
up runs. I think he ran the microphone out to
some food some seventy or eighty feet away from the
from the shack, and uh, I'll be darned if he
didn't spend a couple of he's recording these things. It's
funny when you listen to them, when you listen to
the sounds, and you can get the DVD is available

(27:06):
at from Ron moorehead from his website. Actually, let's do
some of that right now. There are a few available
on YouTube. Let's hear some grace yea oh man. It's

(27:37):
like you first hear it and my my, my mind
immediately goes to it's some sort of like turkey pig
hybrid thing. But then it starts doing something completely different
and goes into these vocalizations that are distinctly human and
the kinds of things you can only make by opening
and closing your mouth in a certain shape, you know,
and it's very other worldly. I mean I tend to,
you know, be a little bit skeptical about some of

(28:00):
this kind of stuff, But man, that is a compelling
sounding recording. Not heard anything like that kind of gives
me shivers. For me, it's the quality, like you're saying, David,
that it makes me. It makes me feel iffy about
it because it sounds so good. It sounds like it's
so close to where whatever is being you know, whatever
microphone they're using. It sounds like it's pretty darn close.

(28:20):
It's not up on a ridge or something and you're
like shooting way down there unless you've got some like,
really really incredible equipment. So what you just heard, ladies
and gentlemen, as as David was describing, are the famous
Sierra Sounds, largely considered by many people investigating Bigfoot to
be some of the strongest evidence, right, strongest audio evidence. Sure,

(28:45):
and just face value. I think you can hear it
and you realize it's something very strange. But there's a
nice gentleman by the name of Scott Nelson out in Minnesota,
I believe, whose son was doing a high school report
and the Sierra Sounds and he's a retired Navy cryptolinguist,
so that's what he did. He used to sit in
the subn marines off the coast of Russian China, and

(29:07):
he's dropping our conversation. So you have to pick up
little pieces of it and form whole sentences because sometimes
they go in out. So I don't know how many
different languages he speaks, but he's an expert. And he's
in the other room working on something, and he hears
his son playing these sounds on his computer. Comes he says,
what are you listening to? He says, oh, this is
something called cr sounds. Supposedly Bigfoot's howling at each other.

(29:30):
He says, play that again. He just happened to be
in the right place at the right time. Just play
it again. Son plays again. He says, let me see that,
pulls it in front of me, starts playing it over
and go and he says, that's a language. Those that
these things aren't ground at each other. He said, he
said when he ran him through a filter, slowed them down.
He says, my god, these things they have their own language.

(29:51):
So here, this poor guy goes from being totally disuninterested
third party just happened to be when they're when his
son was playing with it, listening to on his computer.
He wrote a whole book, our whole series of papers
on this language. He can actually repeat some of these
words almost like you're hearing it. He says, I have
no idea what I'm saying. I'm just repeating. But he

(30:11):
says he had to slow them down to just so
he could say the words. These things actually speak twice
as fast as we can speak. So um so here
you have a Navy cryptolink was saying. He was a specialist, says,
this isn't sounds. These are language. It makes me think
of some stuff you'd hear in like Star Wars, for example,
where you've got characters that have this sort of nonsensical

(30:32):
sounding language, but there are distinct like phonemes and kind
of word patterns and shapes or whatever, and specifically patterns,
And you can hear that in the recording that we
just played, where it's not nonsense. There's a sort of
rhyme and reason to it, especially once it gets going
and starts getting into the more of those guttural tones,
and there's a motion in it too. I find like

(30:52):
it does it does not sound completely breathed of any
kind of feeling. It's got this like kind of quality
of like really trying to communicy cap to it. Whether
or not you understand the language or not, I think
you get that sense. I think the Mike. I'm pretty
sure that at some points that Mike was sitting over
a pile of leftover food. So when you're hearing a
lot of is these things arguing over who gets what? Wow?

(31:14):
And this brings up something else that we want to
ask you about on air, because in our original conversations
you talked about some of the long distance communication methods
that these life forms would use, specifically knocking on wood.
Could you tell us a little bit about that, Yeah, sherl.

(31:35):
So a lot of the bf ROW members, a lot
of Bigfooters now are are employing wood knocking techniques because
when these things are out the woods, you hear what
sounds like wood knox being associated with them. So there's
all kinds of theories floating around. One of them is
maybe these things doing wood knocks when they when they
sense the human being. Why so when we're doing what knocks,

(31:58):
were defeating our own which is a pretty ironic theory,
And I'm almost to the point where I think it's
got some validity to it. So yeah, so, and some
people think they do it these wood knocks to echolocate
each other. Hey, I'm over here to do a wood knock. Over,
I'm over here. A third one over here. Sometimes that
you think they sounds like they're doing a rock clacks.

(32:19):
And some folks have actually observed them making these sounds
with their mouth, so we think they're doing wood knocks,
but they're actually making these sounds with their mouth. They're
amazing the sounds that maybe things they can mimic. It's
very possible that's exactly what's going on. Because if you
do a wooden knock, if you're in the woods and
it's two o'clock more, I have the stick in my hand,
I do a good, clear woodknock. How in the world

(32:41):
can I get a reply wood knock within two seconds?
I would dare anybody stand out the woods, find me
a stick and make a wood knock. They're almost all rotten.
I've done it before. I member walking out watching how
they go do a wood knock. Oh, this is no good,
This is no oh, nope, this one's smacking. And I
think and I thought to myself one time, my goodness,
how can they be doing this because I can't even

(33:02):
find us. That might take me seven or eight minutes
to find something well enough. And then I got to
break it off because it's ten ft long. I I
make a club out of it. So there's definitely some
validity that theory where these things are making that's those
sounds with their mouth. So one of the other big
questions that people would have if they're if they're coming

(33:22):
into this from you know, square one, would be, uh,
we would go back to the idea of like physical evidence, right,
So one of the big questions would be if there
are creatures this large from a population North America of
thirty to ten thou if if they're that many, then

(33:43):
one of the questions would be where where our bones?
Would you know, where's fecal matter? Um? Where are evidence
of for instance, like um guerrillas tend to make nests, right.
So one of the questions that people have asked us
before is what happens to this stuff or does this

(34:05):
stuff exists? You know, like is there is there something
there to find? What a great question because it's something
that serious bigfooters asked themselves, probably in private. Why am
I not finding more stuff? So the people that come
into the museum and said, I just I don't, I
just you know, I want to believe I just I

(34:25):
just don't understand how they can, and they're actually it's
a very honest question. We really should be finding more stuff.
Why aren't that We've we've dug up giant skeletons, you know,
as they were building the infrastructure the United States late
nineteenth century twentieth century, they dug up all kinds of
giants skeletons, but they didn't find any giant fossils. Why

(34:50):
do we not find these things in the fossil records?
If there's thousands of them now, there should be hundreds
of thousands of them buried out there. We should be
digging up a lot more fossils. Other than a teeth
from the Gigantopathecus and giganti Pathecus Blackie and China and
Russia found in some caves. It's really all we have.
We're trying to reconstruct the whole species from a few

(35:10):
molar I think a partial jaw. So, yes, there were
we do have evidence of giant apes. But these apes,
these Gigantopathecus were never proven to be bipedal. There were
just basically that giant apes that walked around like big
monkeys on all fours. These things the primary walk around
on on two feet now, so we're not sure if

(35:32):
they're the same thing. There. What a great question. I
don't know. I have my theories as to why we're
not finding more stuff, A lot of stuff. A lot
of people can walk by things in the woods and
not realize what it is. Oh, look, elk are nesting.
There could be big foots. I mean so a lot
of the their habitats may look like another animal, so
unless you're looking for them, you might not recognize what

(35:54):
you're seeing. People find structures, and it was all the
time they send us pictures of these big hut like things.
I had a guy kind of museum told me he
found one that was almost ten ft tall. He could
walk in and not hit his head on it. It's huge.
It's stunk in there. Um. He said he was too,
he was so afraid to go in it. And he
was with a friend of his and he sent me pictures,

(36:16):
show me pictures on his phone, and he said nothing
was acted. It was everything. It makes broken, and it
had all kinds of leaves and matter to make like
a little hot out of it. So did a big
foot make it? I don't know, but this guy was convinced.
Why would somebody make something so big that was a
lot of effort put in there? And then people find
these little structures like uh, like tps where it really

(36:37):
doesn't afford any kind of protection from the elements whatsoever.
We wonder if there's some kind of a blind where
they hide in them to break up their silhouette for
game on the edge of a game trail. But then again,
on the other hand, do you hear people say these
seeings stink? If I can smell these things at fifty ft,
I'm sure a deer is gonna smell it and and
and avoid them. And you know, maybe they use these

(36:57):
little structures as markers for other big foot. Hey, this
is my territory. So but what a great question. We
really should be finding more things, uh overt evidence of
their existence out in the woods. They don't farm, they
don't use tools, they don't raise anything. These things just
live hand to mouth daily. Yet they're intelligent. So at

(37:21):
some point, some some juncture in a bigfooter's life. You
have to start thinking outside the box and some things
that people may have told you in the in the
past that you just kind of laughed off, you didn't
take it seriously, that you start to like go back
to some of that stuff. And that's where a lot
of researchers are doing now, not most of them, I'd

(37:43):
say a lot of them, not most of them. So
it's um Ron Moore had felt that wrote there the
serious Sunds. He just came up with a brand new
book called Quantum Bigfoot where he discusses quantum physics and
strength theory and possibility of um of other universes and
other reality being just within arm's reach of us, but
we're unable to see them, but other things are able

(38:05):
to cross through the veil. Well, this comes back to
some of the things that we were talking about earlier,
where potentially there are there are reports of these creatures
having some sort of supernatural abilities. So if that was
the case, maybe you know, allah the elders in the
Dark Crystal movie, when they die, they just sort of
manage into star stuff and they're gone. You know, I mean,

(38:28):
I'm just spitball in here, but you know, it's just
I guess what I'm getting at is, like, you know,
we find new fossils, that's not a thing that is
is beyond the realm of possibility. Has found the a
new Homo sapien fossil and Morocco that like lengthened our
conception of the timeline of man. But there's a lot
of human remains that are found constantly, So to find

(38:49):
to to go so long with these creatures still supposedly
existing and not find any you know, displayable fossil strikes
me as a little odd. So so I have two
quick things. The first one is have you ever heard
of the staircases in the woods theories? Okay? So what
if what if these things are somehow coming down from

(39:13):
some other dimension with these staircases, you guys, Oh, that's
that's it. Could you explain for famili with this and
I just I just nodded, But for for anyone who
isn't familiar, could you break that downway to heaven there? Okay?
So these are accounts of, you know, a story written
down by somebody when they were walking through the woods

(39:35):
they saw a staircase in the middle just of the
woods somewhere and this range is the locations for this
range all over the place, and allegedly it's like a
staircase that you would find in any house, but it
just stops and it's just in the middle of the woods.
It's not like it was attached to another house and
it was broken down and it looks like it's broken.
It's strangely intact and looks pristine. Um And you know

(39:56):
the stories there there, these are fables and the story goes,
you know, don't or go near those things because that's
how people disappear in the woods to go those staircases. Well,
regardless of what you believe. Let's be honest, guys, if
you're walking in the woods and you see a staircase
by itself, why would you walk up it? Just I
mean from from like if it's been in the woods.

(40:18):
From a physical safety standpoint. My theories that it's a
like a fishing line with a little hook. It's just
to get your curiosity up, so we'll try and go
in there. But it's a trap. Oh that sounds like
you never go up the stairs in the woods, you know,
come on, but sorry, My my second thing, really fast

(40:39):
is just just to throw this out there, we're talking
about finding giant human skeletons. So if you go online
and you look into that very much, um like I
did after we had our conversations earlier on, it appears
that according to skeptical sites like Snopes and other places
like that, they say that's completely untrue. What what would

(40:59):
you a to somebody who says that, you know, we
didn't find humans giant human skeletons, Well, why would guess
as Snopes is saying, we didn't find it because we
don't have them. Okay, but we we know for a
fact that that almost all of these newspaper articles where
they take up these giants, and I have to emphasize
these these were giant human skeletons. Nowhere in the description

(41:20):
of these things do they say they were like ape
like or that the arms hung real low. All of
the descriptions of them were just giant human skeletons, and
some with double rows of teeth, which just doesn't make
any sense whatsoever. And the Smithsonian always almost all of
these end of the same way that they contact the Smithsonian,

(41:40):
and the Smithsonian says, well, we're gonna send somebody down
and collect those bones. We'll take a look at them
for you, and then they just evaporated after that. The
Smithsonian would never comment on them. They wouldn't say they
got them. And they're just so many. It's not one
or two or three or four. There's probably in the newspaper.
I mean, it's so I mean, I know that newspaper

(42:00):
sometimes they print things that aren't true, but once or twice,
maybe times the same subject. I kind of find that
hard to believe. So the Smithsonian's definitely got them. And
like I tell people, I'm not it's possible that these
things are hidden from us for a good reason. It's possible.
I'm now I can't say that, you know, we are.

(42:22):
We'd be better if we knew about them. It's possible
that we wouldn't. So it wouldn't it be ironic not
the closer you get to the answer to these creatures,
the less people you could tell a bottom It wouldn't
it be even more ironic that if somebody took you
to the side into a dark room and said, oh,
I'm gonna tell you everything you want to know, and
he told you the secret to Bigfoot, and when you

(42:44):
walked out of that room you realize you couldn't tell
anybody that you just had to live with it, because
either the answer is to disturbing or it sounds so
crazy and you have no proof that they're not going
to believe you, so it wouldn't be all that. Once
you did have it, there's nobody to tell you just
have to live with it. And that is the perfect

(43:06):
set up for the final part of our interview, the
Secret Bigfoot responding to the more skeptically minded or or
the critics or the people who are saying what gives.
We'll be back after a word from our sponsor, and

(43:33):
we're back continuing our Bigfoot discussion with David Bakara of
Expedition Bigfoot. My question is something we haven't discussed in
terms of why we're not finding the bones. I was
just kind of doing a little googling, and one perspective
is that we don't know how the lifespan of these
creatures could be, and if they are some kind of

(43:53):
you know, what's the word, I'm looking for supernatural creatures,
maybe they live a really long time, and that's part
of why we haven't found the new bones. And also
they are apparently, you know, from all accounts, very rare.
Can you respond to that and someone. I don't know
anybody that has conventure the lifespan of one of these things.
I do know that are reports of old ones that um,

(44:17):
we we're seeing. Somebody was fella was choppolwood in Florida,
and this is back in the forties or fifties, and
one had walked out of the woods and it must
have been drawn to the sound of wood shopping. And
he said, and he said, this thing was gray from
what wh't white? It was gray, and it was he
was wheezing to catch its breath. It actually had to

(44:38):
put his arm on a tree and catch his breath
a little bit. Then after a few seconds it started
to move on again. So that's about the only proof
I have that they get old. I would even venture
to guess the whole they get. I mean, they have
no form of modern medicine that we have. UM. I
do know that the reports of the of the fee males.

(45:00):
As soon as the baby is born, they take it
down to the nearest creak and wash it off. And
some of those creeks are extremely cold, like too cold
for us to to uh to survive in. So it's
possible that's something that the mortality rate of the young
ones isn't particularly high or you know, possible they don't
live long. So that's that's a good question. No, I

(45:21):
don't really know. I don't think anybody really knows. But
we do know they get old. We do know they
start off as babies, because there's plenty of reports of
of young ones. It just gets my imagination kind of churning, like,
what if they live hundreds of years and they're being
so few of them. That could be a potential reason
for not finding more remains. And the fact that you know,

(45:42):
the woods, the forests have a way of dealing with decomposition,
and scavengers carry pieces off in various directions. It could
I don't know. Well, yeah, this climate has a lot
to do with the preservation of any physical remains, and
forests are hungry, hungry biomes, so it's it takes a
lot of consistent, assiduous work to maintain any human structure. Uh,

(46:07):
if you leave a body in the forest. I don't
want to get too dark, but anyone who's checked out
our previous episodes on National Parks knows that hundreds of
people just sort of disappear. We forget how large the
woods are in North America on this continent especially, And
I've got to say before the break one thing that

(46:29):
that really uh got my gears turning, David, when you
talked about someone going into a shadowy side room. It
always reminds me of one of those things that almost
everybody assumes happens when with with presidents, right like, Oh,
I'm going to reveal all these classified secrets. I'm going
to uh approve every f o I A or Freedom

(46:53):
of Information Act request and uh and then they get elected.
The joke is alway is you know, someone sits them
down and says, congratulations, Mr President, here are the things
we will tell you. And if you tell anyone and
then you know, maybe they slide a picture of Kennedy

(47:14):
across the desk or something. And I know that's I
know that can be paranoid or alarm is. But a
lot of a lot of truth is often told in jest.
And we wanted to ask, do do you think that
there is a concerted effort to suppress evidence or or
incredible testimony of Bigfoot? Oh? Absolutely, Oh, there certainly is.

(47:37):
And like I said before, it might be for a
good reason. I don't think Bigfoot is for everybody. I've
met a lot of folks through my life, a lot
of folks that come through the museum. These folks there
is there are no way ready to accept the reality
of a giant Harry hammetted roaming our woods. They impervious
for the most part, to our small arms that can

(47:59):
outrun a car. No, I don't think people most people
aren't ready for it. So um, there's definitely a considered
effort to keep it quiet. There's a lot of folks
that the professionals that were threatened to with their job.
Do you like working here in this biology department? Yeah?
I do you like your paycheck? Yes? I do? Then
stop talking about Bigfoot. So um lots some sometimes they

(48:22):
tiptoe around it. Sometimes they'll go right to them and say,
just stop talking about Bigfoot. There's no doubt that there
is a conservative effort to keep these things squashed down.
But for those that choose to keep digging, I think
you should continue to do so. I mean I do,
and I've got a lot of friends that do. But
you have to know in the back of your mind
that you're not going to go up on a mountain

(48:44):
and scream the answer to Bigfoot. To all the unwilling
people you're there's only going to be a very small
amount of people that you can share this with. And
depending on what that information is, where you go next
with that. I don't know where you're going next with it,
but I'm venture and to guess that that it's going
to be so disturbing that you you can't tell your

(49:05):
mother and your father, and your brother and sisters. If
they're not an interestent Bigfoot, you're not gonna be able
to tell him. And you wouldn't want to tell them.
Let them have their normal life, go to work, watch
the ball games on the weekends, go to the kids,
tea ball against They don't need to know about this stuff.
So I've had people call me and tell me, Hey,
I think I've got a big foot on my property
and I've got a big thirty YT six. I'm a

(49:25):
good hunter. If I shoot this thing and I call you,
will you help me? We'll bring it. And I said,
I said, not only do I not want you to
call me, I said, lose my email address. Do not
call me if you've got a body one hens, because
if you think that the powers of being gonna let
you to drag a dead Bigfoot body out into the
world to prove to all these unwilling people. They don't

(49:47):
want to know Bigfoot's reel. Stop do you go as
far as you want to with Bigfoot? If he's in
your yard, you've got one that you feed, take it
as part of you see what you can get out
of it. Said, don't try to drag the whole world
into it, because reality, most people they just don't want
to know the reality, and frankly, I can't blame them.

(50:08):
So that to me is a massive conundrum because the
one thing that would prove Bigfoot is a body, right,
That is the one thing that everyone would be forced
to say, Okay, this thing is real, and every skeptic
there's ever been, if you have enough scientists, look at
the thing, do an autopsy. You know, all the genomic

(50:29):
research realized, Wow, this thing is real. But you know,
being afraid of the consequences of finding one of those things.
Trying to put those two concepts together is, uh, that's fascinating.
What do you think even if you're just spitballing, what
do you think that secret is? That would be so scary?

(50:53):
Like do you know? Or do you think you know?
But I can say that that at some point and
person's life, if you're looking into these and a certain
a lot of researchers get to this point, you're gonna
You're gonna come to a ye in the road. What
are you gonna do? Do you want to get the
proof that these things are real? Or do you want
to go to the left? Do you want to learn

(51:13):
where they come from? What they're doing here? How many?
Why are they here? Why do they do the things
they do? You're either gonna have to let the proof
thing go. Just let it go, man, because you know
most of your friends know, you know, the higher ups
in the government know it's real. So most of the
people that read accepted, they already know Bigfoot's real. So
that's already done. Now let's get onto the real work.

(51:35):
Let's find out why are they here, what are they
doing here? How do they get here? Why don't we
find them in the fossil records? Why aren't we why
don't we find more events? All these things we discussed,
it really leads to something to um Seth. Breed Love
just released a new film called The moth Man of
Point Pleasant Sweet. So I've been following The Mothman phenomenon

(51:57):
because very similar to Bigfoot. Actually same, but it's very similar.
And uh I sat and watched some of his witnesses,
and it's just like watching a Bigfoot witness. They're telling
you what they saw. It wasn't a fleeting shadow. It
was chasing them down in their car. It was flying
over their car. These were just regular honest people telling you.
You swear they were telling you Bigfoot story, but they're

(52:18):
telling you instead this thing was flying chasing it with
glowing red eyes, which actually Bigfoot has been described as
having glowing red eyes, having nothing to do with light,
it just makes them glow. So you have to take
some of these creature stories that have gone through our folklore,
which maybe aren't folklore, that have very solid witness reports, evidence, footprints,

(52:39):
and you have to start to ask yourself, where in
the hell are these things coming from? And you you'll
arrive to a very unpleasant and unconventional answer that they're
not from here. They don't live here. There's no moth man,
and we don't have a mothman breeding system thing out
in the woods suwhere these things aren't mating. They don't
live here. And in I'm starting to entertain the thought

(53:02):
that Bigfoot's they're not here all the time, They're just
here some of the time. And rona more hit is
hidden nail when he talked about these quorantum physics, about
these certain animals being able to cross veils of reality
or dimensions. People call it supernatural, some call it woo,
some call it um, they have other names for it.
But all it really is is just science. We don't

(53:23):
understand yet. It's all it is. It's and and everything
is every science that we understand now. At some point
in the past it was it was woo or supernatural.
It was science. We didn't understand that. People were afraid
of it. People were burned to the steak because people
we're talking about things that they understood that the rest
of the world didn't. You're a witch, were burning you,
which is pretty much what's going on now with a

(53:44):
lot of of professionals talking about Bigfoot. So it's just
science we don't understand yet. And um, I don't have
my thumb on it yet. I'm still digging. I've got theories.
I've got some really good friends, very smart friends, that
have their theory. We kind of have this little brain.
If this brain mal we all get together and share
ideas and we all learned from each other. But but

(54:07):
like I said, I really think that the closer you
get to the answer to this, the less people you
have to tell. And I really appreciate what you say
about science we don't understand yet. It's one of I
think it refers to one of the Arthur C. Clark
quotes that we we find ourselves going back to a
time and again on the show, which is um science

(54:29):
past a certain threshold is indistinguishable from magic, you know,
to the average person and to and to UM. There's
a nice dovetail between what you just said and Knowle's
earlier questions about lifespan, because if it if it is
life form that is somehow out of phase with reality

(54:50):
as we know it, then it may also be encountering
time in a different scale. That's just me spitballing, like
I just I'm winging it on, not completely agree. So
I do want to ask also, you mentioned Uh, you
mentioned another cryptid, and I wanted to step outside of
just the context of Bigfoot into um this sords zoology

(55:13):
in general. Do you think there are other um quote
unquote cryptids that have a credible chance or or a
possibility of being real organisms and if so, which ones?
Oh my god, there's just so many. Um. I definitely

(55:34):
think there's uh this flying humanoid phenomenon that's been happening
for been a reporter for past sixty seven years. I
think there's a lot of ability to that, especially when
you sit down, if you get a chance to watch
that movie and you hear these people like, oh my god,
just that right there, Yes, flying humanoid creatures. If them
things are real, let's face it. I mean that just

(55:56):
kicks the barn doors wide open. Well. Actually got to
visit the Mothman Museum endpoint. Pleasant. Not nearly as impressive
as your joint. I have to say, Hey, it's not
shade man, it's just true. We actually didn't get to
tour the facility. It was they let us in to
buy some merch but it kind of got to peek
back in and it was just like one little room,
but really interesting town and like a similar kind of

(56:21):
passion from the guy that ran the store. Um. But
there's this bizarre little statue of the Mothman right outside.
It looks kind of like a Masters of the Universe
actually figure from the eighties but like a sculpted like
twelve pack and like a weird but there's a lot
of time, but yeah, it is. It is a very
iconic figure there, you know. And it was one of

(56:43):
the full disclosure. We were on a road trip. It
was this whole situation, but we we couldn't pass up
the chance to go to Point Pleasant. And I think
I think it's divided. I don't know how how you felt,
but I think there are people who feel it is
touristy or ironic, and then there are people who genuinely believe, uh,

(57:05):
many of whom are probably long time residents of Point
Plus because it's like you say, these accounts are very passionate.
You know, someone's not. They have no reason to make
this up other than I mean, it would put them
in a light they maybe you don't even want to
be seen and if they didn't have a reason to
actually put it out there. But ultimately, in the end,
they're just accounts, right. So that's that's the hard the

(57:25):
thing about finding actual proof or physical proof, that's what
makes it so difficult. Yeah. I think one of the
great little face that's the great little off stories about
them off Man is when they talk about these men
in black. Yes, they were visiting these these people in
the Men in Black visit UFO witnesses. They also visit
Bigfoot witnesses. So it doesn't seem be like a whole armor.

(57:47):
These guys. I mean they always show up two at
a time. And um, just recently some video was released
of two of them entering a business building. We need
to talk to a guy. They actually have photographs of
them coming the same thing, all wearing all black. But
a lot of good people said these guys were just
very strange. Um, they would leave people out in the

(58:07):
field when they wouldn't change the story. They just left
him there. And so um, just that that we act
about cryptids. I mean, I don't know our and the
black cryptids. I don't think they're human. I think there's
some kind of weird hybrid. But they're they're definitely here
to keep the lid on the Pandora's box. And that's
really what it is. It's the where where the lid

(58:28):
is on Pandora's box, and there are people to make
sure that lid stays on there, because you kick that
lid off of there, all hell's gonna break loose. And
I don't think anybody, including me, wants that that to happen.
So um, yeah, you really have to be careful about
about what you say, the kind of information, and who
you tell. That's why some people come in. Hey, this

(58:48):
is my brother Jim from Milwaukee. He thinks this whole
thing is ridiculous. Would you convince him that it's not? No,
because he likes he just likes that's the way he
likes it. Or guess the way we're gonna leave it.
Ben mentioned the tourism aspect of like that Mothman museum
and you know it cut it in some ways relates

(59:08):
to expedition big Foot as well. It's a destination that
gives you a reason to visit a place that you
might not visit otherwise. Right, So, um, how do you
how do you think or how does it affect you
when you hear people talk about oh, that's just a
tourist destination or something like that. I'll tell you something

(59:29):
when we when we first opened up, my wife was
prepared for the onslaught of naysayers. She actually wanted me
to prompt her and to like, Okay, what do they
say this honey, and what do they see this hole?
And then then what do I say. I say, honey,
just just let's just see what happens when do you
open the doors. Doesn't this is not somebody running through
all kinds of weird scenarios that aren't gonna happen. So well,

(59:51):
since we opened up the doors, let me tell you something.
I'll bet you nine people that come in they're there
are already people that they're either on the fence or
they think they're real, which completely knocked me and my
wife off the We're like, are you kidding me? I
think maybe two people have come in. We did twenty

(01:00:14):
four thousand visitors in the first eleven months last year.
I've got two people I can't remember. I'm just saying,
how to be somebody. I but somebody had to come
in and say this whole thing is nonsense. So I'm
gonna say at least two two people came in. But
for the most part, people come in, they're excited. They
love this kind of stuff because there's so few of

(01:00:35):
these things out there anymore. Back in the fifties and
sixties or our mom's and dads were driving and there's
all kinds of neat, little roadside attractions. People love that
kind of stuff cat you out of the normal hum drums,
same old thing. So there's so much room. I wish
somebody else would open up another one. Who put up
another Mothman museum or a lizardman museum or a UFO museum.

(01:00:57):
I think people love that kind of stuff. It's in
his escape and it's got to be a family museum.
That's why g rated movies are still the biggest money maker,
and on the movie industry it's always g They're always
the biggest money grossers because people want to do something
with their family. I want to go somewhere with my
mom and my sister and my my and my two grandkids.
So this is this and other opportunities should be made

(01:01:20):
available to go and have fun with the whole family.
You have to hike up a mountain. Grandma, grandpa, mom,
dad and the grandkids could all do it together. We
need more places like this and places they give homage to,
you know, history and folklore and mythology. I love like
any of that kind of stuff that continues those traditions.
That's that's fun. Have you ever heard of a book

(01:01:41):
or TV series called American Gods? Because the three of
us have been watching the series and you never heard
of this. Okay, it's fantastic. Neil Gaiman, guy, he's an author,
and it's in this story. One of the concepts that
central to the plaw in the theme is that God's

(01:02:03):
exist in this In this instance, we're talking about everything
from Odin to Leprecauns and Faye people too. Yeah, ef frets,
all this kind of stuff. It's mythological in a way,
but one of the main tenance is that they only
exist because people believe in them. But they really do
exist because people believe in them. And I wonder if

(01:02:24):
Bigfoot in some way is like this because we believe
because you know, some people believe it is a truly
a thing. Is this going way way at this interesting?
Pretty wild man? No? I love it, No, no, I mean,
but but maybe it's if we want to ground it
more in some sort of pseudo reality. Maybe it's about

(01:02:46):
whether or not they choose to come back or not.
Right like so we're talking about they're blipping in and
out of this reality or you know, this dimension. Maybe
that is there, there's some some force that keeps them
coming back and be it's some palpable version of what
you're talking about and maybe it's just like they go
to wherever they're originally from and say, I just get

(01:03:07):
back from Earth, the search for intelligent life continues, or
they just get bored and they're hanging out here because
it's a little different. I have one I have one
big question that I think a lot of people have
on their mind right now. And I wish we could
get to more stuff, but I know we may be
close to the end of the show. Uh So the

(01:03:30):
question that if it's okay with you, guys, I would
like for us to close on, is to ask you
what is the future of Bigfoot? What? Because we had
mentioned before, um, you know, there were concerns from some
of your colleagues in the community about the effect of
human encroachment upon natural environments, and uh I would like

(01:03:53):
to hear your opinion of where you see both the
search for Bigfoot and the organs them itself. Well, there's
a lot of new shows that there's a couple. There's
actually one new show out tailing Bigfoot. I'm not sure
if it's still in the air where they want to
procure a specimen so they can prove to the world
it's real. There's a group out in Texas right now,
called the Texas Bigfoot Conservacy that's doing the same thing.

(01:04:14):
They're trying to procure a specimen to a shooting ko
one bringing out show the whole world it's real. But
my personal opinion is that what we should do is
just continue what we're doing. Stop. That's the last thing
we should do, is to prove to the whole world
that these things are real. I've said the same thing
to my friends. I'm I'm gonna say it right now.

(01:04:35):
The first thing that's going to happen if on the
one million out of a thousand chance that this thing
ever was ever proven to be real. Number one first
thing that can happen is they're gonna cut off our
access to them. No more citizens, scientists, leave this up
to the professionals, so you won't be able to go
out there was and try to associate with these things,
or find them or learn more. The government's gonna cease

(01:04:57):
control over the whole thing by just saying that they're
protected species. You can't. And you go on the woods
and you're looking for you're harassing them. You want to
feed up your harassing them, You make it woo knocks
and rock lacks. You're harassed and I'm knocking off. So
the worst thing you can do has proved the world
the real because the first thing that's gonna happen, we
won't be able to have access. Right now, we're pretty

(01:05:18):
much unfettered access to them. So the future is just
trying to learn more about them. Don't worry about the evidence,
learn more about them because it's extremely complex. So um,
hopefully we don't. We're not. We're not gonna have anymore
proving Bigfoot is real. TV shows, I think hopefully we
have a new show that comes out where it's they're

(01:05:40):
not worried about the proof about trying to get one
on film. That that when you start getting to the behavior,
why do they do that? I'm gonna lift this sound
they left me a dead rabbit, or I lift out
a bag of apples and left me a mouse wrapped
up in the leaves or something. Get that stuff on film.
I think people would be just as curious about that
because try and spending years trying to get him on film, Well,

(01:06:01):
that's a waste of time. Man. It's very difficult, just
from from killing big Foot's but they're little taglines right
up about it says they're determined to stop. Well, first
of all, it's the Gulf Coast Bigfoot Organization, which you
had mentioned, the one of the Bigfoot field researchers organization,

(01:06:21):
that's one of the other main ones. So these guys
want to stop these nuisance bigfoot from attacking people's homes
and property. Uh and including the missions harvesting a specimen
one rogue mail will be taken to prove once and
for all to science that these creatures exist. A rogue mail,
They're gonna take him down a rogue I think a
lot of people have been a rogue mail at some

(01:06:43):
top point in their life. David big Harreth, thank you
so much for coming on the show. I know that
we have um just scratched the surface of something that
you have spent decades investigating. And not only do we
appreciate your time time, but we'd like to ask uh.
One thing that we like to do on the show

(01:07:04):
is recommend places where the people in our audience can
go to for more information. And you've cited a couple
of books, but is there any other literature or any
other resource that you'd like to recommend to people to
One of my favorite series of books is by Tom Powell,
author Tom pollas th H O M P O W
E l L. He's a long time one of the

(01:07:27):
founding members of the b F R OH. He's done
some a lot of very important work and if you read,
he's got three books out right now. One of my
favorites is Um the Locals God. That just excellent book.
Just reading that one book is a matter of because
there's so many you just can't read them all. I
think just reading that one book, we'll give you a

(01:07:47):
honest fourth right and objective you into the Bigfoot phenomenon. Fantastic.
Thank you so much. And where can people Where can
people find more information about you? David mccarat and Expedition Bigfoot.
You can find us on the web at the Expedition Bigfoot.
We've got an app, a website and a Facebook page

(01:08:09):
you can all people post all kinds of pictures on.
There's funny a lot of museums don't let people take pictures,
but people are so excited. It's the first thing they ask,
can you take pictures? I just didn't have the heart
to tell him no, so I and uh, I think
people are relieved it. Yes, you can come in. There's
all kinds of pictures post on us. You have an
idea as to what you can expect. There's nothing scary
in there. A lot of kids come in. It's funny

(01:08:29):
because we have the music plane and they get nervous.
You can see the trepidation as soon as they crossed
the threshold, like they take two steps and they stop, like,
I don't worry. It's just a museum. There's nothing gonna
scare you back there. But it's extremely interesting. I was
gonna say that one we took a picture with that
one black what it was. It was just like, yeah,

(01:08:53):
it was like a knife with a tall black guy. Swatch.
That is very intimidating, not scary intimidating. Well, it's just
you know, it's got presence, right, Uh. It owns the
room and the And where are you guys located? We're
on Highway five fift nineteen thirty four Highway five fifteen
and Cherry Log, which is about four miles south of
Blue Ridge, about eight miles north of l Ja. And

(01:09:17):
this concludes our episode today, but not our show. We
hope that you enjoyed today's episode, and we hope that
while you are online. Uh, go ahead and check check
us out to give us a give us, drop, drop
us a line, an online missive of some sort um.
And you know, if you happen to make it to

(01:09:39):
UH Expedition Bigfoot, send us some cool selfies with the
big hairy man ape thing and exactly. Oh and if
you have stories about your own uh inflatable encounters in
the wild, we are all ears or this case eyes
because we would be reading the email who I am
within it on the end the show. Somebody step in

(01:10:01):
and save me. Okay, So if you do have any
kind of experience, especially a detailed one, send it to
both us and to David at Expedition Bigfoot, because there's
this this big wall in the museum that just has
personal accounts. A lot of times it will be a
drawing that someone made of their experience, what they saw
with a you know the whole story right now. We're

(01:10:23):
a response team too. If somebody has a siding here
ongoing siding in their yard or on their property, we
have a team that will go out there and UH
investigate it. Awesome. We're not going to prove it's real,
because we already know it's real, but we will help
you understand it, and that's the end of this classic episode.
If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

(01:10:46):
you can get into contact with us in a number
of different ways. One of the best is to give
us a call. Our number is one eight three three
st d w y t K. If you don't want
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(01:11:07):
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