CLASSIC: The Secret World of Chefs, with Richard Blais and Hugh Acheson

As anyone who's worked in a kitchen or the hospitality industry can readily attest, there's an entirely different world behind the doors of every kitchen, a world that most diners and restaurant patrons never see. Join the guys as they sit down with world famous chefs Hugh Acheson and Richard Blais to learn more about what really happens behind the scenes in restaurants and cooking shows, as well as how the industry has been been affected by the coronavirus pandemic.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cast your memory back there, folks, it's twenty twenty, your
faithful correspondence here at stuff they don't want you to know.
Sit down with some legendary chefs. And it's no secret
you're Matt, I'm Ben. It's no secret that we have
both to some degree worked in hospitality in previous lives.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, very much so. I have been a server for
many a summer and also spring and winter and fall
and all that stuff. A couple of times, but mostly
in the summer. Worked at a snack kitchen. One time
out by the pool.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, I did some time as well.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Not to make it sound like a prison, but I
think this inspired us and a lot of us tuning
in at home as well. It inspired us to investigate
the inside world of restaurants and cooking and kitchens and
hospitality in general. It's the stuff the customer probably doesn't see,

(01:08):
and it's the stuff the most restaurants probably don't want
their consumers to know. So we were immensely privileged to
sit down with our pals, Richard Blaze and you AChase
it to learn like to get behind the curtain of restaurants.
And this is way before the bear To be clear,
we would have referenced the bear just like insufferably if

(01:33):
we recorded this in twenty twenty four or twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Both of these guys are incredible restaurants tours, and both
of them were dealing with the pandemic in the hospitality industry,
and it's a really interesting conversation. We hold a lot
of respect for these guys for their work, you know,
in restaurants in that field, but they're also on television
a whole bunch. If you look up the names of

(01:59):
these guys and you will see their picture and you'll realize, oh,
I've seen them on Top Chef. I've seen them, you know,
all over Food Network. I've seen them doing these things,
and in particular in Atlanta, we had seen their restaurants,
like the coffee shops. They're all of all the things
that they do like that. Since we recorded this episode,
Hugh Atchison has had to sell one or two or

(02:21):
several of his fairly big named restaurants that he's been
doing for like ten, you know, thirteen years. I think
he was at one of the restaurants that he's just sold.
And Richard Blaze has sold a ton of his things
or he's just closed down a ton of the things
that he started. So it's just really interesting to see
how I don't know, these guys in particular, have evolved

(02:44):
since going through what we were talking about in this episode.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, in this interview we have so we have two
top tier people in their profession, absolute experts, really nice
as well, even when their opinions are markedly differing. These
guys are at the top of their game, undeniably. They're

(03:09):
also more than willing to answer questions a lot of
people had but perhaps we're afraid to ask. So this
may sound like it's just you know, us trying to
hang out with celebrity chefs, but it's really not the case.

(03:29):
What we're doing is learning from firsthand sources about all
the stuff in the back of the house.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Oh yeah, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies.
History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back
now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
A production of iHeart Breeding.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
Welcome back to the show.

Speaker 6 (04:09):
My name is Matt, my name is Nol.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
They call me Ben.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
We are joined as always with our super producer Paul
Mission Control Decans. Most importantly, you are you You are
here and that makes this stuff. They don't want you
to know. This is a very special episode for us.
It's one we've been excited about for a while now.
Today we are diving into the culinary world, and as

(04:34):
anyone who has ever worked as a chef or as
a cook in front of house or more can easily attest,
there is an entirely different universe behind the kitchen doors.
It's a world and a reality that most diners and
most restaurant patrons never really see. And it should go
without saying, but we'll say it. The people in this

(04:55):
world are some of the hardest working, most driven individuals
on the planet. Today we're getting a first hand exploration
of this world with help from two luminaries of the
culinary universe, Hugh Atchison and Richard Blaze. Thank you so
much for coming on the show today, guys.

Speaker 7 (05:15):
Thanks us up.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
It's really nice to connect with you guys in this
video conference. The way we're making this recording happen right now.
You both have fabulous looking homes.

Speaker 7 (05:27):
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 8 (05:27):
Yeah, I really just have this stove and this cabinet
behind me. The rest of the houses and shambles, but
this is where I do all of my work.

Speaker 7 (05:36):
Now, well, what else.

Speaker 6 (05:37):
Do you need?

Speaker 9 (05:38):
And these are troubled times, and let me say you
also both have fabulous voices. And I want to make
sure that in this our first like what is this
a six way skype call bunker recording situation? I want
to make sure that everyone knows who's who. So if
you could each introduce yourselves just so our listeners can
track who's talking, that would be amazing. Richard, do you
want to want to go first?

Speaker 7 (05:59):
Hey?

Speaker 8 (05:59):
Everyone, this is Richard Blaze. And no one has ever
said that my voice sounds amazing and coming from you,
that is high praise.

Speaker 10 (06:07):
All right, Hugh, I'm Hugh Atchison.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yes, that's just it's just like he's just some guy
named Hugh Atchison.

Speaker 9 (06:19):
The gravitas of that name and that voice alone you
need you need not say anymore, honestly, where We're all
really really happy to have you both, and thank you
so much for having I think this is our first
ever two guest situation on stuff they don't want you
to know, isn't that right?

Speaker 5 (06:33):
Guy?

Speaker 3 (06:33):
This is yeah, yeah, this this is pretty close.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
This is new for us too, but you know, we're
in a time of new things and innovations. One one
thing we wanted to to kick off today's conversation with
is uh is the concept of celebrity, right.

Speaker 6 (06:52):
Uh, you know.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Many of us in the audience.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
We know you from your we We may know you
from your work in television, and sometimes there may be
people listening today.

Speaker 6 (07:03):
Who are you know?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I like the way you would put it earlier, Matt,
Who are who are even more familiar with your television
work than they are with maybe the day to day
food that you are creating. How how has your notoriety
affected your work as chefs? Has it like helped, has
it hindered? Has it ever gotten weird?

Speaker 8 (07:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (07:24):
I'll jump in.

Speaker 8 (07:25):
I guess Richard Blaze here, I mean one, has it
gotten weird? I mean to be honest, guys, we're on
a six way skype on a podcast right now, So yeah,
things can get weird when you're a celebrity chef. I
think it goes both ways, right, Like, the exposure certainly
creates great opportunity, It certainly helps putting people in restaurants.

(07:47):
At the same time, you know it, it creates a
tremendous amount of responsibility. Not that you can't live up
to all the time to everyone. So I think there
it's a blessing, not much of a curse. But but
but certainly there's ups and downs to it.

Speaker 10 (08:02):
Yeah, I mean, celebrity is such a strange. I don't
think any of us wanted color so celebrities. I'm just
a guy who cooks. You know, TV's occupied about me,
you know, two percent of my working life, probably even less,
so you know it. But you know, like like writing

(08:23):
a book, it just gives you a bigger footprint to
you know, get to clients and find customers and have
a following. So it definitely helps in a business angle.
But it kind of the term kind of makes me cringe.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
That's that's understandable.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
It's funny, Hugh.

Speaker 9 (08:42):
I actually knew about you outside of any of your
TV work because I lived in Athens, Georgia for many
years and knew about your wonderful restaurant five and ten
and had many friends that worked for you, and so
I knew of you more from your grassroots kind of work.
And you really are known as being super hands on
and not only you know, cooking and designing menus and

(09:02):
creating restaurant concepts, but also in culinary instruction. I actually
have seen you do a talk at the local farmers
market in front of like, you know, twenty people. It's
like a very grassroots thing that you do. And I
always really appreciate that about you. And you're all about
the DIY kind of eth ethics of being a chef
and all of these design principles. So I just wanted
to put that out there. I'm a big, big fan

(09:24):
and have known you since you were kind of, you know,
doing that stuff in Athens and've always kind of followed
you from that part of my life, been.

Speaker 8 (09:30):
A loon and you you and you doesn't want to
say it, but he's obviously a celebrity chef because I
can't book the farmers market like they're not coming over me.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
Well, this is something I want to get to you guys.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
My first job I ever had was at a private
club in Atlanta called the Pimont Driving Club, and it
was working, you know, in a kitchen there, and I
really thought, this is what I wanted to do. And
I know there are a lot of people out there
listening who have aspirations of becoming a chef or getting
into the industry in some way more so than you know,
just serving drinks or food. How what were the pathways

(10:07):
you guys took to achieve that? And is there any
advice you can give to someone who's looking to kind
of follow in your ways.

Speaker 10 (10:14):
I mean, I would definitely advise against not going into
this business right now, but there's no jobs and there
won't be any jobs, and it's gonna be a lot worse.
But you know, I got into this business because I'm
the BlackSheep of a very academic family, and at fifteen

(10:36):
I started working in restaurants. I just it was the
place where I felt at ease and where I could succeed.
And it wasn't at school, and I went to university
for a while but dropped out. But all throughout the time,
I'd just been cooking. And you know, I'd show up
when I was sixteen years old working at a French
restaurant and be you know, have forty year old chefs
be happy that I was there working side by side
with them. So it gave me a sense of inclusion

(10:57):
and success. And you know, I realized that my strange,
sarcastic personality and things like that somehow also allowed me
to be a good leader. And then mix that with
empathy and honing in on technique of the years and
just reading you know, I think it just you know,

(11:19):
it's also it's a business that is it's it's this
endless fascination for me because I can learn about food
and beverage and hospitality and design every day of my
life and never get tired of it. There's so much
to learn about food, and so when you find an
occupation that that really jazz as you like that every day,

(11:42):
it's exciting. And right now, you know, we've all changed
jobs in the last month and a half two months,
so that's exciting too, even even in a crisis situation,
which is amazing to me that the similarities between running
a restaurant, which is a very crisis and triage orient anyhow,
and then true crisis response because there's a lot of

(12:04):
affinities that chefs can bring to the table in that
regard to fix problems quickly.

Speaker 9 (12:09):
I think it's a really really great point, and I've
seen so many restaurants here in Atlanta have to pivot,
you know, very quickly to this whole very carefully thought
out to go model. Even find dining restaurants as a
brand new restaurant right around the corner from me called
Little Bear that just opened right before all this stuff hit,
and they have exclusively pivoted to curbside delivery and they

(12:33):
do a new menu every week, and you know, you
can call in and make your order that morning and
you can pick it up that night, and it's like,
you know, it's like seventy five bucks, but it's like
a spread for your whole family, and it's something very special,
and it's been really cool to see them succeed. And
obviously they're doing it with more of a skeleton crew
than they would have, you know, as a full service restaurant.
They were booked out months in advance. It's a really

(12:54):
popular spot. But that kind of innovation is really inherent
in the scrappy of being a chef. I mean they
call them like brigades, right like in the French tradition,
because it's like you're at war in a certain way,
and you have a leader and you have people that
you have to delegate to, and the whole situation is
very regimented in that way.

Speaker 6 (13:13):
Richard, do you have a.

Speaker 9 (13:14):
Can you speak to that a little bit in your
experience as to that kind of you know that that
attitude that can do, attitude that really leads people in
the culinary world to be able to like make snap
decisions and really kind of you know, just come through
in times of stress.

Speaker 8 (13:30):
Yeah, I mean, I love I Actually, I mean I'm
gonna borrow what Hugh said there for the future because
I mean being you know, every night of a service
of a restaurant, there's some sort of drama or problem
that has to be served. I mean almost every you know,
other guest or other table has some sort of pivoting
moment or situation that has to be fixed or solved.

(13:53):
And I think that, you know, again, the hospitality industry
is sort of built for this, and you know, using
the word hospitality, they're like the old sort of adage
that the customer is always right, you know, has you know,
really is the backbone of you know, being able to
consistently have to pivot every you know, seemingly couple minutes,

(14:14):
you know, to make sure that everyone is happy. So,
I mean, I think that that's ingrained in all of us.
And I think that's the other side for me. If
I if I look at my personal story, you know,
why did I fall in love with you?

Speaker 7 (14:26):
Know, cooking and being a chef.

Speaker 8 (14:27):
It was because it was one place where I could
make someone happy right away.

Speaker 7 (14:31):
I could see it on their face.

Speaker 8 (14:33):
I could I could see it in their smile, and
I got that personal gratification of it.

Speaker 7 (14:37):
And you know, quite honestly, now we have.

Speaker 8 (14:39):
The ability to you know, turn those tables in a
way and make people truly happy in moments when they
really really need it, like you know, some curb side
pickup or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
You know, that's that's well said, and I think we're
hitting on an issue that's very close to everybody's mind
right now, you know, as as we're readjusting, as as
we adapting and improvising. One thing that you both you
both hit on that really pricks my ears up is
you you both noted like one percent, like something always

(15:11):
happens right every every service there there's always going to
be something. And that's kind of a point that we
we opened with when we said, you know, somebody might
go into a restaurant and they might sit down and
to them, it seems like this is super easy. This
is like a lazy too bride down a delicious river,

(15:31):
you know what I mean, and have no idea of
what's going on behind the kitchen doors. So like with this,
with this in mind, are there things that that you guys,
as chefs and as professionals, wish the average restaurant patron
was more aware of? Like, what what kind of uh
for lack of a better word, what kind of kitchen

(15:53):
secrets do do you wish that more diners knew?

Speaker 8 (15:57):
Well, I want to let you answer this, but I
want to just follow up and think, thank you for
the inspiration, because definitely the Willy Wonka Chocolate River to
Bride will now be created at some point in one
of my restaurants.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Oh oh, that seems terrifying to me. Are you going
to have the soundtrack?

Speaker 7 (16:12):
Who we have to?

Speaker 8 (16:15):
I'd say pure imagination is the song, but I don't
want you guys have to pay for it.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Thanks Paul, look into that.

Speaker 10 (16:22):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot that goes on behind
the scenes. I think it's I think the number of
people that it takes to really ensure good hospitality and
full service is much more than people think. Behind the
scenes is usually more people than people think, and the
amount of work that goes into it is more. People

(16:44):
always have an assumption that restauranteurs and successful chefs are
are rolling in it and we're not. It's a very
very low margin business and has only gotten lower. And
you know, it's a challenge launching business, but it's when
that people do it because they love it and by

(17:04):
to drive some people to bankruptcy and things like that.
So it's never easy in that way. I mean, outside
of that, I think that people generally understand. What people
really do need to understand though about restaurants is their
satisfaction with the restaurant is really past a certain point.
It's really all in the consumer. So if you're a customer,

(17:25):
you're going to a restaurant and you're in a crappy
mood and you're with your mother in law and a
four year old, the chances of me making you abundantly
happy and a relatively find any restaurant are difficult. You're
stuck in the odds against me. So it's not my job.
I mean, I can do my job well, but the
customer's always so got a play too. You know. Richard
brought up the customers always right, and I actually I

(17:48):
don't really ascribe to that anymore. The customer is always
right when they treat us with the respect, and we
counter with professionalism and empathy and understanding, and we provide
good product and we do a good job and it's
efficient and timely. Apart from that, if the customer has
to complain about that, that's, you know, so we you

(18:12):
know so, I guess I'm just saying it's the customer's
got some responsibility in this relationship too.

Speaker 8 (18:18):
Sure the customer is always right, and so they're clearly
absolutely wrong.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Right, Yeah, Hey, guys, we're gonna pause for just a
moment here and check out a word from our sponsor.
But we'll be right back, and we're back. Let's keep
talking with Hugh Atchison and Richard Blaze. All right, I
want to jump to something that all of us have

(18:45):
been dealing with our whole lives. As soon as you
hit I guess what you would consider the adulthood marker
where you can go out to a grocery store and
gather all of the things that you or your family
needs uh to you know, survive for a certain amount
of time. You guys, as chefs and restaurant tours, I'm
assuming have spent a lot of time at grocery stores.

(19:06):
I know for sure, Richard, You've been at Whole Foods
a whole lot just from the top Chef episodes. But
there's you know, when we as an individual are going
into a place to buy procure food that we are
going to cook the way you guys would in a restaurant,
what do we need to know about where we go,

(19:29):
what strategies we use to like do the best for
ourselves for a nutrition, for our economics, Like how do
you make those decisions?

Speaker 5 (19:37):
And what should we do well?

Speaker 7 (19:39):
I think a lot of those decisions.

Speaker 8 (19:40):
It's kind of a tricky question because I think a
lot of the decisions that a chef will make is
dependent on this skill and the training that they have.
So I mean, I'll just throw one out there right
away that like, you know, not buying the most expensive
cut of meat or the most expensive fish because the
market has created or flated that price, and you know,

(20:02):
a braised stew with a piece of meat and some
oxtails and bone marrow is probably going to be more
delicious and probably the type of food you're going to
get at a restaurant like hours anyway. So one would
be it's dependent on the on the skill of of
the of the cook.

Speaker 7 (20:17):
So kind of tricky.

Speaker 9 (20:18):
So you might say a little bit, don't buy into
the hype necessarily of even a place like Whole Foods,
where you know, all of those super pricey cuts of
meat are available. And maybe there's a little bit of
marketing behind this notion that oh, we can be just
like pro chefs by buying this really expensive stuff. And
and really what's most important is maybe educating yourself and

(20:40):
upping your basic skill set in the kitchen rather than
leaning on buying expensive ingredients.

Speaker 8 (20:46):
Right, Yeah, And I would I would say, well, first
of all, you know, the hype has sustained my career,
so let's be careful what we say. But I will
say that like, one of the things that has been
fun and I use that word very carefully during this
quarantine has been cooking at home. And you know, I
hate to use the top chef ford, but doing the

(21:07):
quick fire challenge where you know, I found a package
of Senka behind my dog food bin the other day
and I don't even know sanka still made instant coffee,
and a can of tuna and some white beans, and
you know, a piece of celery that clearly should be
in the compost bin, and can I make a dish
out of that, Can I make it delicious? It's it's
kind of been fun in that sort of way, having

(21:30):
to use all the ingredients in your house or freezer
or cupboard, and that's what good chefs and great chefs
like you do.

Speaker 10 (21:36):
Anyway, what did you do with the sanka?

Speaker 7 (21:41):
I love that because that's a coffee connoisseur. I know,
I know you enough.

Speaker 8 (21:45):
My wife made is it Delanaga the too ingredient coffee
and it kind of went viral. She's got one hundred
thousand views on this, you know, too ingredient coffee.

Speaker 7 (21:55):
It was kind of kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I just want to I want to say here, Hugh,
don't think I missed this because we are in a
video call. You start, you've got a diagram.

Speaker 10 (22:04):
But yeah, I'm the only the only moron who brings
a visual aid to a podcast. But when you enter
into a grocery store, grocery stores are very scientifically uh
and economically studied as to what the layout is. You
know you're going to go in, you walk, walk past florals,
the first thing they want you to see. It's pretty whatever,

(22:24):
and then you go into produce. But the trick is
you want to stay on the exterior walls. Pretty much
as you go around a grocery store, the inner aisles
are where the crap is. So if you can stay
away from that, except for the little scouting sapper missions
into go get your olive oil and whatever in your flour,
then you're going to avoid a lot of really what

(22:46):
is prepackaged and ingredients that you never should understand or
probably shouldn't be adjusting a ton of So stick to
the exterior. But also, I think the cooking these days,
and what I want to you know, really hurt to
people often is recipes are great. I love following a
really good recipe start to finish, But what you really

(23:07):
need to do to cook well is get is envision
a lego set and you want twenty pieces. Each piece
is a technique and a skill in cooking. Then you
can just assemble them in totally different ways each time,
so then you're not held hostage to the snapper recipe
where you can't find snapper. The snappers thirty two dollars

(23:30):
a pound for filet at Whole Foods, and you can
adjust to that and use something else, because really, what
the technique you need to know in that case is
how do I properly see her fish? And so we
just need to teach America those basics again so they
can all have their lego set. Richard and I just
have a lot more lego pieces than most people do.
It's not that, you know, and we can cobble them

(23:52):
together in different ways, and we look upon things in
a very different ways, sometimes in food, and that's the
exciting part about food. But buying from scratch is kind
of key. I mean to me, the fact that it's
very heartwarming to see the dry bean shelf totally empty
because I'm like, wow, America actually knows how to cook beans.

(24:13):
So you know, I was talking to host Andres the
other day and he was like, you know, in a crisis,
I go down to Italy, I give the woman a
ten pound pack of lentils and a hammock and she
makes food. And he was like, here, you know, they
don't do that. And he's got a point, but I
think we're beating that a little bit right now. So

(24:34):
it's kind of exciting to see that. And you know,
I still want people to come to restaurants. It's kind
of how Richard and I pay our mortgages. But you know,
it's good that people are learning how to cook from
scratch again.

Speaker 7 (24:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (24:46):
One of the amazing things has been to just build
on that is the absence of flour in every single market,
Like I mean even in my household. Yeah, I'm gluten
free until quarantine, and then all rules are gone and
I'm we're baking homemade sour dough. There's no flower, there's
no yeast in the stores, and everyone is, you know,

(25:08):
home baking South What I mean, people are not gluten
free anymore. I know that some people are, of course,
but California isn't.

Speaker 10 (25:15):
Some people really do have allergies, but ninety percent of
the people who claim to have allergies no longer have allergies.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
Exactly. There'll be an email coming about that.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
So that's an episode of its own.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, So really quickly, can you tell us how you
start with sour do? I know it requires a mother?
How do you actually get your hands on a mother
and like start the sour do and making process.

Speaker 8 (25:37):
I mean there's a couple of recipes. At its essence,
it's flour and water, correct you.

Speaker 10 (25:42):
Yep, Basically it's grabbing wild yeasts out of the air.
So mother is more a kinship with vinegar and set
about the celts and or Scobi's. This would be referred
to as as starter. So once the starter is activated
and it has grabbed east from the air, it's going
to grow and expand, and at that point it needs

(26:03):
to be fed. So it's feeding off of the flour
and small additions that you're adding to it every day.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
So if you can get your hands on some flour,
you can probably make some sour dough.

Speaker 10 (26:14):
Yeah, yeast is running through the air everywhere as we talk.
Some people are yeastier than others. You can smell it
on them.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
That's That's gonna be my my out of context quote
for this episode.

Speaker 10 (26:28):
When they say Jesus has risen, they he's actually just
really yeasty.

Speaker 7 (26:33):
There we go.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
I do have a question to follow up with this.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
I love that we hit on home cooking because there
is a bit of a well, there's definitely resurgence, but
dare I say it's getting close to like a renaissance
and there are a lot of people who would you know,
ordinarily describe themselves as incapable of boiling water, who have
now like gone into their storage or wherever they kept
all the all the kitchen stuff they got for their wedding,

(26:59):
you know, decades ago, and they're breaking it out and they're,
you know, getting those cookbooks they always told themselves they
were going to read and they're actually working on this stuff.
To me, that seems pretty inspiring. There's a lot of
mageiver inventiveness to it as well. But I was wondering,
what are some of the things, like when you guys

(27:19):
as professionals, are seeing people try their hand at cooking
at home, what are some of the things that you think,
like they need to know. I'm picturing, you know, I'm picturing,
like you guys, having a camera in someone's kitchen and
being like, oh my.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
God, dude, what are you doing.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Are there any things like that in general you think
could help people cooking at home?

Speaker 8 (27:40):
I mean, I guess I can just we can start
rattling off a few I mean, I just did a
video making hash Browns at home, and it was it's
just potatoes and salt and some oil and a hot,
hot pan. And there was no trick to it. It
wasn't a fancy recipe like you was saying. It's more
of a technique. It's not a recipe and people were

(28:01):
trying it at home and you know, dming me about
that the pan wasn't working, and and really it was
it's not the pan, it's it's it's not the wand
it's the magician and it is, you know, just something
like letting the pot, letting the pan, letting the oil
get hot enough so that whatever you cook in it
doesn't stick to the pan.

Speaker 7 (28:22):
It's just the type of thing.

Speaker 8 (28:23):
Then when you're at home and there's a pan smoking
and you're about to set off your uh, you know,
your your fire alarm, that people freak out a little bit.
Whereas when you have the experience of cooking professionally, you
know the smoking point of a certain oil and that
you have, you know that the pan's going to be okay.
So little things like that where it's more. Again, everyone
thinks they need the tool, especially for me being sort

(28:45):
of known as a gadget guy. Guess what I haven't
done in the last thirty days. I haven't cooked souv'd.
I haven't used any liquid nitrogen yet. And if it,
if I do, it will be for the zombies. It
won't be an ingredient in a recipe. It will be
Synegra at all the zombies. So I think some of
it is just experience. But now people are getting that
experience and I'll send it over to you, Hugh.

Speaker 10 (29:07):
Yeah. I mean I think that people are they're coming.
America is really intrigued with food right now. They're trying.
I call it it's the rise of the Alison Roman Empire.
And I think that it's good. But I mean Americans
are still more on when it comes to food. I

(29:28):
remember when I published my first book, I did like
a pair upside down cake and so it costs her
like four eggs in the batter. And I remember having
somebody like handwrite me at postcard saying it was good,
but the eggshells were a little weird to get around
what no. I mean like people like it's like.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Well, this is why, this is why it's so important
to have magicians like you guys amongst us who can provide.

Speaker 10 (29:58):
I don't think that's a magician, that's a Logitian.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
But I guess what I mean is, I think you know,
no matter how difficult our situation that you guys are
going through, that the restaurant industry is going through, in
the hospitality industry, in general is going through. I don't
think we're ever going to lose that need for people
with your skills. And I guess I was listening to
an episode of The Passenger Hugh where you were talking

(30:24):
with Chris Wilkins of Root Baking Company here in Atlanta,
and my goodness, dude, I mean, the reality of our
situation that you laid out with.

Speaker 5 (30:34):
Him was.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Heart wrenching, just from somebody who loves food and has
enough means to every once in a while eat at
a restaurant of the caliber that you guys. You know,
the food that you guys create. I guess what I'm
what I'm trying to understand is do you think there's
a version of this the way it plays out that
innovation plays a huge role for people like you to

(31:00):
still be able to get food to consumers and make
a living in just maybe a different way.

Speaker 10 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean there is, But I worry that that
is so shallow and basic and it loses some core
aspect to what I think is most important about true restaurants,
which is hospitality. I mean, but we saw those coming
before this. I mean, Richard can attest to this too.
I mean, there are flaws in the logic of fine

(31:30):
dining and what we do every day is and we
see it on the bottom line, and that's been you know,
when we see the sweet gratification of America, it's kind
of terrifying to a lot of us. As chef says
to is that really where we're moving towards? Because I
don't want to go there?

Speaker 9 (31:48):
It just really quickly in case anyone does a not
you talking about Sweet Green is like a kind of
like sort of Chipotle health food kind of chain that's
like in California.

Speaker 6 (31:57):
Is that you're referring to.

Speaker 10 (31:58):
Yeah, and they started in Philadelphia and the gun everywhere now.
But and I'm not dissing them. I think they provide
a good service and it's a good product in the
in the end, it's just what it lacks for me
is service. It lacks the idea of a chef coming
up with an inspired dish and nailing it and you know,
really impressing that way. So we can come up with

(32:21):
a lot of different ways to do really great to
go food and stuff like that, as you know, giving
people options of restaurant caliber meals to have in their home.
I just don't want that to be everything we do anymore.
But I'm also terrified that American consumers are not going
to want to come and gather around a bar.

Speaker 8 (32:41):
Yeah, I mean it kind of has created I think
the big the big issue is that you know, one
the restaurants and food.

Speaker 7 (32:50):
Everyone everyone's a consumer.

Speaker 8 (32:52):
Of food, right, so that that's the beauty of the business.
And what we're finding right now is the ultimate issue
is that it's it's one business that can't go one
hundred percent digital, right, it can't go one hundred percent online.
You physically need to have something in front of you. You
need to put it in your body. So I mean,
I think that's the massive challenge. But what you was

(33:13):
saying already is like this has already been happening third
party delivery services for some of my places where you know,
thirty forty percent of specific locations business already. So in
one way, we've seen this coming, you know, third party delivery,
pick up to go fast, casual food, and quite honestly,
through the last you know, you know, horrendous moments. You know,

(33:37):
after nine to eleven, people had to adapt. Fine dining
took a massive hit two thousand and eight. I think
that's when the single subject you know restaurant was was
sort of born after that, So I think this is
going to create something. I'm kind of excited, although it's
going to be a challenge. What I agree with you is,
I'm kind of excited for at least the challenge of,

(33:58):
you know, can you create some sort of restaurant experience
perhaps at home, and you know it's never going to
be the same, but the challenge itself, I find somewhat inspiring.

Speaker 10 (34:11):
Just kind of dawned on me. It's like some of
those meal prep services like Blue Apron, which you know,
I think is it it's interesting idea.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
It's like, hey, watch out watch out there sponsor.

Speaker 9 (34:27):
To the point of what I was saying earlier about
not buying in the hype and and don't want to
put any of you guys's livelihood a risk. It's to
hilarious that Blue Apron and all those meal prep service
sponsor literally every podcast.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Oh I know, I know, but let it, let it fire.
I want to hear what you I want to hear
where you're coming from.

Speaker 10 (34:43):
I think Blue Apron and groups like that were becoming
untenable before this. Now that you know, they're probably the
happiest companies in the pandemic economy other than three m zoom.
So it's it's it's interesting to see how long that's
gonna last. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, what what

(35:05):
is This is going to completely change our industry, and
I mean, well, I'll come back. I mean we'll be okay.
I'm not worried about reopening. I'm worried about six months
after reopening, when the landlord's still trying to lean on
me because he wants to do a slight uptick in rent,
and I'm like, dude, we're doing sixty percent of what

(35:28):
we did last year. You can't raise the rent on
me because there's nobody who's going to open up a
restaurant here. So, you know, I think we are empowered
right now because you know what I used to hate
when bosses would ever say this to me is becoming true,
which is I you know, landlords need me right now.

(35:51):
They need me, so they have to make me happier.
That's really important. But it used to be like like
bad bosses, while we say like there's ten other people
behind you for the job, it's like, well that's actually
going to be true right now.

Speaker 6 (36:05):
No, it's really true.

Speaker 9 (36:06):
I actually I heard an interview on in PR today
about a property owner, commercial real estate owner who's tenants
who are business owners are not able to pay rent
right now. And he's like, Okay, that's that's how it's
going to be. I get it. I support you. I'm
not going to collect rent this month. But then he
in turn went to his bank and the bank isn't
giving him a break. You know, the bank isn't passing

(36:28):
on that too. I'm not no, it's a it's everyone's
getting hit. But it's fascinating to see how this is
going to play out, because eventually the banks are going
to have to play nice. It's just inevitable. Like, I,
what's what's the alternative? I don't understand. You know, a
future where the banks hardline everybody and close everything down,
you know, to see their world.

Speaker 6 (36:49):
Maybe maybe I'm being naive.

Speaker 9 (36:51):
I'm interested as business owners what you guys think about
how that aspect plays out?

Speaker 10 (36:56):
Well, I mean that aspects really interesting. I'm glad you're
speaking King as a lobbyist for developers and landlords of
the world, you have to realize that, like, our bottom
line on profitability is a lot lower than landlords and
developers so I just think there's this needs to be

(37:17):
a give and take. We've filled their coffers, We've filled
their buildings with aspiring businesses that employ people and do well.
You know, they need us and now more than ever,
and I think that they have to pony up and
be willing. I'm going to lose some skin in this.
I want to see them lose some skin.

Speaker 9 (37:37):
And I hope I didn't misrepresent that's That's really what
my point was is that eventually even the banks are
going to have to lose some skin. Everyone's going to
have to kind of get on board with this chain
of events. You know, the banks can't hardline everybody, the
real the property owners can't hardline everybody. Eventually, everybody in
this chain has to kind of be like, Okay, we're
in this together. How can we kind of prop each

(37:59):
other up and then help each other out.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
I think the one really good thing we've talked about
before on an episode here, the really good thing that
we have here, I think for humanity as a whole,
is that we do have a you know, in this scenario,
a common enemy that happens to be a microbe, you know,
or you know, a thing that is smaller than you
would be able to see with a microscope, and it's

(38:23):
affecting all of us, and it does feel like the
only way out of all of this is a tremendous
amount of empathy, which I think we, you know, as
a world, as a species, we could certainly use a
ton more of. And this is actually a way to
hopefully foster more of that. And if you know, and
if we can achieve that, then we won't have a

(38:45):
major problem with the banks because they're compounding interest anyway,
so we'll be okay.

Speaker 5 (38:51):
Maybe Now.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
The great part I wish this was visual podcast because
that was that was a fantastic.

Speaker 10 (39:05):
But thank you for that Kumba moment. I I I, yeah,
we we do have a common enemy in this, in
this in COVID and uh, we have a common enemy
at least fifty four percent of us and the blackluster
president of the United States. But I don't know. I mean,

(39:25):
I I want to see empathy. I want to see compassion.
I want to see patients and people I don't always
see it. I've seen some people angry driving around and
stuff like that, and I just want to be like
weal mellow though out.

Speaker 7 (39:42):
Now they're driving around angry.

Speaker 10 (39:43):
Yeah, yeah, I know.

Speaker 6 (39:45):
They should be home. What are they doing, idiots.

Speaker 10 (39:48):
I've been driving around a lot because I've been doing
meals for World Central Kitchen every day. So I borrowed
a van and drive around to a needy organizations in
athen and drop off food. So I see a lot
of stuff going around.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Wow, that's something that's key, And I'm really glad we're
getting to this part of the conversation because one thing
that we've seen here in the US and abroad has
been this this not just like a repurposing from a
business perspective and the way we were talking about earlier,
but a repurposing for community support. Now to a degree,

(40:28):
the stereotype about the American South is very true. Horrible
things will happen here, but you're not going to go
hungry because everybody is always going to be like trying
to help you, like throw food at you wherever you go.
And what astounded me recently here in the South, but
in the rest of the world as well, is seeing
these these initiatives that kind of grew organically but so quickly,

(40:52):
where people are, you know, doing what you're describing you.
They're saying let's let's make sure that people who are
elderly or immuno compromised and can't get outside have you know,
if not some sort of human interaction, they have something
to eat.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
And it made me, it made me.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Think about how intertwined food is with community outreach. This
sort of to your point Richard, where you said, you
know everybody is a consumer of this. What are some
like community outreach things that that you guys have seen
that you know that that I don't want to be

(41:32):
too like Pollyanna or optimistic or naive about it, but
what are some things that you've seen or you've participated
in that have inspired you in this current situation.

Speaker 8 (41:43):
Yeah, I mean for me, it's I mean, everything's been
well documented, but it's the you know, feeding and cooking
for restaurant workers and employees, you know, sending you know food,
you know, to hospitals to take care of healthcare workers.
Know you mentioned earlier Jose Andres, and you know the

(42:03):
support that I've even received on my platform to get
donations to World Central Kitchen. Yeah, I mean that's what again,
you know, cooks and chefs, because what we're trying to
do each and every day when we're not in a crisis.
Is just make people happy? You know, we sort of
turn that up, you know, a couple of levels when
when we have to, you know, bring someone joy and

(42:25):
good food and hospitality can do that.

Speaker 9 (42:28):
Okay, we'll be right back after a quick word from
our sponsor and then more with Richard and Hugh.

Speaker 6 (42:39):
Okay, we're back. Let's get right back into it with
Richard and Hugh.

Speaker 5 (42:43):
Can we switch gears for a second. Yes, Richard, you.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Said the phrase quick fire, And uh, I've always had
a question because the three guys here, we've we've been
on set before for various things, and and you know,
I'm I'm I've always had.

Speaker 5 (43:02):
A question about cooking shows. So I'm gonna use Top
Chefs as an example.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
But just because you guys have both had experience being
on that show in various capacities, I think you could
probably insert any competitive cooking show into this for this question.
But generally you will see a segment where there are
contestants chefs cooking their hearts out for you know, an
elongated period of time, and then afterwards there's a whole

(43:29):
different camera set up. There's a whole different like feeling
and area where where shooting is happening. I know for
a fact that that takes a long time to get
right and to continue moving to shoot something like that.
How do you keep that food that was just cooked
furiously by these chefs? How do you keep the integrity

(43:51):
of that food moving over to some other place and
then kind of sitting out and waiting as you go
down the line of you know, a judge's judging that food.

Speaker 8 (44:00):
I mean, you know there is we are not as
a judge. You know, you're not judging food on temperature. Usually,
temperature is the one thing that everyone is although different
shows are a little bit different, that temperature is the
one thing that everyone is understanding that, hey, this is
not at its optimal temperature right now.

Speaker 7 (44:20):
So I think that's where you're going with that.

Speaker 8 (44:23):
You know, people understand that it might have been you know,
five minutes or ten minutes or fifteen minutes that the
food or their plate sat there before it was judged,
and you know that can affect also the inside baseball
scoop there is you know, as a cook and a chef,
we know that you know, taste changes when something's hot
or when something's cold. So knowing that or knowing that

(44:45):
the type of food to cook can sometimes become an advantage,
you know. I mean there's lots of contestants, you know,
myself included probably who know that, like, oh well, a
very cold, you know, raw seafood dish might be a
good thing to serve right off the bat because it's
going to be cold. Their judges are gonna taste at first,

(45:06):
it's gonna have high acidity. It's gonna sort of, you know,
affect the palette of what that judge tastes after this dish.
So hopefully I'm not diving too deep into the game
right there. But as a judge, we all sort of
understand that, hey, you know, temperature isn't to be considered
most of the time.

Speaker 10 (45:23):
Yeah, I mean, I'll say more. I don't work with
the show anymore good either, do I quick for a
challenge starts and then it stops, and then they read
everybody rules and they reset cameras and that type of
thing happens all the time. There's other strategies involved. Richard's
actually got a classic strategy which I don't I've picked

(45:43):
up on, but I don't know if anybody else is.
I don't even know if it's his strategy on his point,
but in a scenario where we're cooking for a lot
of people and they each have to approach us for
that taste of whatever we're doing, and then they're going
to vote on mass later on. I'm always of the
mindset that, like, I just want to get it as

(46:04):
much as possible. Richard not so much, because you're never
told how many you have to serve. So Richard slow rolls.
He'll put one played up, another minute, another play up. See,
I've got twenty in front of me. I'm just like
pushing it out, going crazy, and he's like, he's exhaling,
he's fine, deep breaths him and he's just slow roll.

Speaker 8 (46:29):
Yeah, I'm the Houston astros of Top Chef. That's what
we're getting to, right.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Well, that kind of thing is just so interesting to
me when you're thinking about trying to make a television
show and put out great food, that to me is
always interesting just how you actually manage the food itself.

Speaker 8 (46:46):
No, I mean he was breaking down A big part
of the show is that, you know, Hugh's an amazing
chef who cooks in restaurants, and so you have to
sort of break yourself away from maybe the type of
chef you are in your restaurant versus the type of
chef you are on whatever show it is that you're cooking,
because you saying this right now, like, Hey, there's people
at this event. I want to feed all of them.

(47:07):
I want to get them food. I want to make
them all happy. Quite honestly, I could care about the
three sound bites of the three people who don't like it.
I only care about the four judges that are rolling
up to me in this contest, and I'm going to
pay very special care to, you know, these four six
little bites. So it goes deeper than even what you suggesting.
Not only do I slow roll it, but I preserve

(47:27):
the four six little bites for the most important people
at the most important time.

Speaker 9 (47:33):
I have always wondered, you know, in these shows where
so much drama is created by the clock and the
countdown and like oh no, I have to redo my
batter or whatever all of that stuff, is this an
accurate time line that we're seeing like as a viewer,
Like is it pretty preserved? Or are there moments where
they cheated a little bit and stop the clock and

(47:54):
that gets cut out?

Speaker 10 (47:54):
Like it's generally pretty accurate, but you get to realize,
like the dramas created edits, it's there's so many different perspectives,
you know. I mean, a show like Top Chef has
like probably eight cameras going. You're filming much longer than
the you know whatever the forty two minutes of television
is for an episode. So they've got, you know, eighteen

(48:17):
hours of tape that they're whittling down to forty two minutes.
And their angle is they want to find drama, they
want to find humor, they want to find mistakes, they
want to find burning, you know, completely botched scenarios. They
live for that.

Speaker 8 (48:33):
Richard, We're trying to watch your face. Yeah, I mean
I just feel like Hugh things. I'm a company man, now,
that's what I'm all. The facial expressions, not at all.

Speaker 10 (48:45):
But I've just always been known for being totally irreverent
and not giving a shit.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
So fair enough, fair enough, That's why this is special.

Speaker 8 (48:53):
But you is right, you know, the timing specifically on
light Top Chef, it's legitimate, and like you can jump
cut and put some music drop in anything to make
it seem pretty dramatic. But I have hosted baking shows
where it gets really exciting because you have to make
a time announcement that's like, all right, bakers, you have
six hours left, and.

Speaker 7 (49:14):
And you're like, what, like, there's.

Speaker 8 (49:15):
Not even the way you started my starter yet, right right,
I'm just gonna go walk over to the flower now,
and like, you know, if you put the right music
on it, that's that's that's dramatic.

Speaker 7 (49:25):
There we go.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
So when when we're on this point, you know, I
do think it's something that a lot of our fellow
listeners have always suspected and are probably grateful to get,
like some first hand information, as you said, Richard, a
little bit of inside baseball on some of these things,
because it's it goes to a larger point, like it's
fascinating the way that in edits, like you mentioned you

(49:50):
it's it's fascinating the way that reality can be altered
for for broadcast, you know. And I'll say even sometimes
on podcast we see this, right, and podcasts are often
like like in all of our podcasts, we're we're pretty sincere,
and we're ultimately trying to to educate. God, I feel

(50:12):
so cornball save it, but we're trying to educate right
at some point. And I just I don't think it
changes anybody's enjoyment of shows. And I have a personal story.
You guys, remember the original Iron Chef, but the guy
who like snapped the bell pepper and he's got this weird,
complicated backstory about why he's making people cook with Nato

(50:34):
and stuff.

Speaker 9 (50:36):
Is that the Chairman? Yes, yeah, are you gonna talk
about the Chairman's son?

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah, that's Iron Chef America, right, Yeah, with that guy,
he's an actor.

Speaker 9 (50:44):
Dude, I thought he was really the Chairman's son. He
was a double dragon me. That's my story.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I say, like the original Iron Chef, I grew up
thinking that it was totally this, that there was this
like Bond culinary super villain who who for some reason
was driven to these extreme lengths. And uh, you know,
I wish I still thought that, Like I didn't.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
I had no idea.

Speaker 7 (51:09):
Of stopping you.

Speaker 8 (51:09):
You can still believe in it, like it's okay, Like
it's it's believe whatever makes you feel good, especially in
these times.

Speaker 7 (51:17):
The Chairman is real.

Speaker 9 (51:18):
My my belief was even one steper move from yours,
because you're talking about the original Chairman. I didn't even
know anything about him. I just knew the son of
the Chairman, and I thought he was real, and then
and then and then I realized he was Billy from
the Double Dragon movies. But you're saying the original Chairman
is also some kind of some kind of actor.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
No, I've I've I've done a complete one eighty Richard.
You inspired me with your advice. I'm choosing to believe
it's legit, it's real. Uh, it's happening.

Speaker 8 (51:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
And you know what, there was a brief Iron Chef
America thing on TBS. I believe where in William Shatner
was the uh was the main guy? Now that one
I didn't fall.

Speaker 8 (51:57):
For, although I've known private chefs that I cooked for Shatner,
and you're not that far off.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
This is what I want to get to. This is
what yes, Yes, this is what I get to.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Well, we had John Hodgemen on the show a little
while ago, and he told us about having dinner at
a secret society.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
Oh where was it? What was it called the Snake Snake?

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, book and Snake Secret Society. Have you guys ever
found yourself found yourselves either cooking for or eating at
in a very strange place in a very strange world
that you didn't expect that nobody else could really get
in there unless you were you.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Have you got down with the illuminati.

Speaker 7 (52:38):
I think that what.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
I'm asking, I'm just asking like something strange that would
be just interesting.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
Hmm.

Speaker 8 (52:47):
I have never been invited to the ortalon party, although
I've heard of these, you know, the ortelon the small
little lad that.

Speaker 5 (52:54):
Yeah, okay, I don't know this. What is the ortilon?

Speaker 8 (52:57):
Uh man? That you're gonna have to do some research.
You guys are the experts in research. But it's a
tiny bird that you're not allowed to eat. That from
what I've heard and maybe seen once, people eat and
cherish and they basically it's a very small bird and
they eat the whole bird in one bite, and they
put a napkin over their head while they're doing it.

(53:18):
So there's a specific, incredible ritual that maybe I have
seen once when I cracked a door open that I
shouldn't have in a French restaurant.

Speaker 9 (53:27):
Whoa, there you go, there you go, Yeah, the napkin
over the head. If I've if the stuff I've read
is to be believed, is to hide your shame from God,
because it's such a decadent act to eat this tiny bird,
and it's really meant to be something that only the
bougiest of the bougie can enjoy.

Speaker 6 (53:47):
And it is in fact illegal now, but it is something.

Speaker 9 (53:50):
That was very popular I believe during the Renaissance, if
I'm not mistaken, or at least that's kind of when
it started.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
It's a hyde your sin from God so that you
don't have to live in shame.

Speaker 6 (54:00):
That's right, That's right. That makes more sense, Hugh.

Speaker 9 (54:03):
How about you any any any crazy behind the curtain
glances at you know, weird high society banquets or any
strange stuff that you've happened upon and catering or even
just like you know, guess at your restaurant without naming names.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
Just give us a little taste.

Speaker 10 (54:20):
No, I mean not really. I don't know. Maybe I
just leave it a boring existence. But no, it's not
really just And I wouldn't tell you.

Speaker 9 (54:32):
You had to have at least served Michael Stipe before.
Can we at least assume that that's the case.

Speaker 6 (54:37):
Yes, okay, great.

Speaker 10 (54:39):
But he's never done anything weird.

Speaker 6 (54:42):
He's not a weird guy. He's really nice. And pleasant.
I've seen him.

Speaker 9 (54:45):
I've seen him around town one of the multiple times.
Lovely Lovely guy.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Well, guys, I think we're we're wrapping up here, is there?
So both of you have podcasts out that are that
are pretty new. Uh, Hugh, You've got The Passenger. Can
you tell us a little bit about what's going on
with that show right now and just what it is.

Speaker 10 (55:07):
It's a travel show, so it's on hiatus because nobody's traveling,
nobody wants to hear about traveling. It's a show just
about places I go and what I see and what
I do and where you should go when you get there.
It's like just discovering that every place you go has
this heartbeat that you want to find and just I'm
your tour guide.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I would just say it's it's it's better than you
is selling it right now.

Speaker 5 (55:32):
It's a great show. I've listened to the episode.

Speaker 8 (55:35):
Now You's got That's a classic restaurant or thing you
underpromise and over deliver. He does it all the time.
I work with this guy Altin. It's an amazing podcast.
His food is amazing.

Speaker 7 (55:45):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
I would just say specifically because you're listening to this show,
I would recommend listening to the most are two most
recent episodes of The Passenger, just because it is a
very serious look at what the restaurant industry faces right now.
But but just keeping in mind that there are some

(56:06):
good things out there too. But Hugh, I think you
might be able to tell from this episode, Hugh, and
I don't need to mean to speak out of turn,
but here your outlook is a little bleak, but it's
but it's very straightforward.

Speaker 10 (56:20):
It's it's an honest, uh, negative perspective.

Speaker 11 (56:25):
I think that's what we need, that we need, we
need honestativity, and that's why here, well, you know, there's
this thing I uh I learned about recently.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Uh, someone said, I'm so tired of all this toxic positivity.
Sometimes it's okay to just be angry about something.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
And that you know, that that hit me.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
That stayed with me almost as much as my my
ill fated appearance on your podcast, Richard Food Court with
Richard Blaze. You know, it's a fantastic it's a fantastic show, uh.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
And a great segue.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Pald Nol and I had had a lot of fun.
We were able to preserve our relationship, but there were
moments where our friendship was in some dire straits over
our profoundly personal feelings.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
What is Food Court, Richard?

Speaker 8 (57:15):
Yes, food Court is my new podcast that at one
point recently hit number twenty four in the comedy category.

Speaker 7 (57:26):
I waited for some studio applause like.

Speaker 6 (57:28):
You can, guys, Hopefully we'll put it in pus.

Speaker 7 (57:31):
There you go, there you go.

Speaker 8 (57:32):
And Food Court is where we take celebrities like yourselves, chefs, actors, writers, comedians,
and they come on and they debate some serious, hard
hitting food topics like you guys did like what's better
bacon or sausage flower tortillas versus corn tortillas. So real, heavy,
heavy hitting, serious topics get debated.

Speaker 7 (57:55):
On Food Court.

Speaker 8 (57:56):
And then at the end, of course, I make a
decision that most people disagree with, and that is the
general assessment of the show. But we are having fun
doing it, and thank you so much for being a
part of it.

Speaker 7 (58:06):
Hugh. We gotta get you on the on the on
the on the, on the on an episode.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
You know what, I I've put my hat in with
your producer to be on the show because I like
happened in on a recording a little while back that you're.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
Making and I so badly want to be on the
show too.

Speaker 9 (58:22):
It's a lot of fun. Ben Ben says ill fated,
but everyone that I've talked to says they think he
made a better argument.

Speaker 6 (58:28):
I think it's just he You know, we did sauce.

Speaker 9 (58:30):
I was sausage and he was bacon, and I think
I swayed Judge Blaze with the idea that sausage is
more adaptable or it's more variety in sausage than there
is with bacon. I think that was kind of what
the kicker was. But Ben, you gave me an absolute
run for my money, and I did not think I
was going to emerge Victoria, So I wouldn't look at

(58:50):
it as a as a negative thing at all.

Speaker 7 (58:52):
Now, I'll I'll be honest, Matt, even he.

Speaker 6 (58:54):
Said he was siding with you the whole time.

Speaker 8 (58:56):
So just it was the it was the tough verdict
that I had to deliver because you guys with your
background and experience come in with information, like most of
my guests are just shooting from the hip, and you
guys came in with actual facts, and I think the
next time you come on the show, you need to
argue as a team, and we need to bring in
another celebrity duo or trio to go up against you.

Speaker 10 (59:18):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Oh wow, I.

Speaker 6 (59:20):
Would love that. Can we do Simon Majundar?

Speaker 9 (59:22):
I just saw you had him on recently, and I've
always found him to be delightfully prickly.

Speaker 6 (59:26):
I would love to go head to head with that guy.

Speaker 8 (59:28):
He is even more so now because if you go
to his Instagram page, he's not shaving during quarantine, so
he's a bald man who now has lots of hair.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I'm the I'm doing the same thing, actually, guys, I was.
I'm at the stage now where I'm impressed when I
hop on a call or something like.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
One of the first things I noticed when Hugh and Matt.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Popped up on the video call, I was like, Wow,
these guys are still shaving.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
They've got there together. Man, I need to Like.

Speaker 5 (59:55):
I heard that it was safer. That's all.

Speaker 7 (59:57):
That's all it.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Is supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
But I think I'm going to be coming out of
this looking like a character from the Old Testament.

Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
You look like a really cool college math professor. Oh thanks, guys, Like,
everyone stand on your desk. Okay, throw the textbook away.

Speaker 10 (01:00:14):
He's got the Doctor Manhattan background. Though. If you stand
up and you've got a blue penis dangling in front
of you, this is weird.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
We've had a lot of fun on this episode, but
we do know that there are a lot of people
out there who, you know, are not able to work
in a restaurant right now and make the money they
used to make. So I just want to put this
out there that the National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation has
set up something called the Restaurant Employee Relief Fund. It's

(01:00:46):
it's something that you can both donate to and hopefully
benefit from.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
If you are.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Having that experience right now and having some hardship in
the wake of the coronavirus disease, you can go to
r ef US to both donate and or seek assistance there,
and we would recommend you do that now if possible.
Please donate if you can. I know we are going
to be doing that here on our end, and if

(01:01:14):
you do need assistance, that's a good place to go.
Are there any other things you guys want to shout
out here at the end?

Speaker 8 (01:01:20):
You know, all I would say is just remember, you know,
I'll try to use a culinary sort of analogy here,
but like the forest burns down every once in a
while and usually after that morels grow, and like, we
are going to get through this, like you mentioned during
our conversation, like things are going to come back. It's
going to be different, but we will get through this,
and we will get through it together.

Speaker 10 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I'm more of the burning the forest down myself
right now, But I think that people just need to
realize it's it's not that a lot of us won't
have trouble reopening. It's that a lot of this industry
is going to have a lot of trouble six months
down the line after opening unless consumers really make a

(01:02:03):
good effort to do what they always have loved doing,
which is going out and eating good food. One way
or another, you're going to get it. There's going to
be ways to get it. We're going to come up
with those ways in a safe environment, and we just
need your buy in as eaters.

Speaker 9 (01:02:17):
You know, Hugh, I heard a great perspective today about
how that's really the case for this notion of reopening
the country, reopening the economy. You can't just flip a switch.
It's about people and thereby in in general, whether it's
spending money, whether it's going to restaurants, whether it's going
to ballgames or movies or concerts. Again, it's all about
when are people going to be, you know, comfortable enough

(01:02:39):
to resume that. It's not about what the President says.
You can't make people, you know, just magically rejoin life
the way it used to be. So there's going to
be like a kind of a pendulum swing. It's certainly
not going to be like a rebound. But I think,
you know, cautious, I try to take the pence of
cautious optimism. I'm ready for that switch to be flipped,

(01:03:00):
and I know that I'll be out there doing those things.

Speaker 6 (01:03:03):
But it's gonna be interesting to see.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
We want to thank you guys. Thank you Hugh, thank
you Richard so much for your time today. You know,
I don't know about our fellow listeners, Noel, Matt, but
I learned a lot of stuff that I didn't know,
which is, you know, that's a very low bar, So
nobody get a real big head about that. It's easy
for me to learn new things. And we are going

(01:03:28):
to we are going to call it a day. But
just because this episode is over, it doesn't mean the
show is over. You can find Hugh and Richard online.
You can learn more about their work. You can find
their new podcasts that we've talked about.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Do check them out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
We're not recommending them just because we're friends with these guys.
These are fantastic shows and a lot of work has
gone into them, so check them out. Let us know
what you think. They're available now wherever you find your podcast.
In the meantime, you can find us in the usual play.
We're all over this internet thing. We think it's a

(01:04:04):
fad that's going to going to really take off in
a few years. So we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram,
we're on Twitter. We lost our Pinterest account.

Speaker 5 (01:04:14):
Yeah, sorry about that. That was my fault, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I was inappropriately posting some things about magic, the gathering,
the copyright thing.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
You can find us on all those places where conspiracy
stuff or conspiracy stuff show. If you can call us
right now if you want to, our number is one
eight three three st d WYTK. You can leave us
a message you might get on the air, or maybe
you'll just send a message to us and we'll get
to listen to it. You might get a call back
from me. I'm kind of bored at night sometimes, so

(01:04:44):
we'll see how that plays out. Right before we end here,
are there any do you guys have any open restaurants
that are doing any kind of delivery or to go
or anything right now that we could support or that
people would want to support that you'd want to call out.

Speaker 8 (01:05:01):
Yeah, people, people in southern California and the San Diego
area can support Juniper and Ivy, which is doing a
weekly menu and curbside pickup, as well as a couple
of locations of Crackshack in San Diego and Orange County,
California as well.

Speaker 10 (01:05:17):
Me no, just doing emergency food.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Please support those restaurants if you can, and in any
restaurant really like you know where My family is trying
to do take out as much as we can afford
right now, just to support our local businesses. I'd just
recommend trying to do it as much as you can too.
If you don't want to contact us, you don't want
to do that stuff, you can always send us a

(01:05:41):
good old fashioned email.

Speaker 12 (01:05:43):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.