November 5, 2025 • 52 mins
Was the 13th Amendment a grift? What was it like living through the Atlanta child murders? In the first part of an historic, wide-ranging conversation, Ben and Matt welcome the legendary MC, activist, and Atlanta community leader Killer Mike to discuss his new podcast Conversate, some of America's most dangerous conspiracies, the importance of local organizing, and the fragile nature of democracy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Folks, fellow conspiracy realists. Before we get started today, we
thought it important to let you know this is an
explicit series.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A little bit, a.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Little bit, a lot of bit, you know what I mean. Tomato, Tomato.
We are very much against censorship. We try to keep
things pg. Thirteen, But for this, Matt, we had to
make an acception.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yes, just be aware who you're listening to. It around
and if you're feeling a bit weak of the stomach.
If not, then carry.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Forth from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
A production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Noel is on adventures, but will be returning shortly.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the
Tennessee pal Facin, as well as our guest superproducer Ramsey
Ram jams Yunt. Ramsey's in the house. Now, look, folks,
we have something extraordinary for you this evening. It's a
thank you for everyone who waited for us to return
from the High Seas. True story okay, oh better yet
(01:28):
went along with us. So tonight we're having a wide
ranging conversation exploring everything from Tuskegee to the Thirteenth Amendment, WikiLeaks,
hip hop programming, so much more. Get this, folks, We're
not doing it alone. I can't believe this is a
true story. Matt. We are joined live and direct in
person with the activists, the musician, the legendary MC and
(01:52):
creator of the hit new podcast Conversation with Killer Mike Michael.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I do here. How you doing?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Man's insane that you're sitting right next to us in
real life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm happy to be here, and you guys know, my god,
Man Ramsey gets me. We do Hey, man, I think
we should do this. We mob out to do.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
But we've been sitting back admiring your work for I
can't even tell you how many years. Man, thank you
and and just everything you do, your solo work, RTJ,
your your the work you've done in the sphere especially. Look,
we were feeling I don't want to speak for everybody,
but some of us were feeling the burn very hard
at a time.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's my guy, Jeseuz, my god.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So just you know, going back and just watching your
work for a long time. Yeah, I was going to
take it back to Georgia State really quickly shore mine,
of course. Okay, So when my friends and I graduated
the film program there at Georgia State, which was, in
our opinion, one of the best film programs out there,
we loved it. We learned so much. We started a
small production company and one of the first things we
(02:56):
shot was this little cooking show that was, you know,
we're shooting a pilot for it, trying to get it off,
and it was gonna be in Atlanta based cooking show.
And the first person that we shot on that show
is this guy who went by Kujo, and we were like,
but at the time, for me, I have no idea
who this person is. I think he's just going by
(03:16):
a cool name from a scary movie that maybe dogs
I didn't know who he was. You know, I'm a
small town Georgia kid out in the suburbs.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Him up like.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
This around we are, we're getting ready for camera, we're
lighting in, we're just doing all this stuff. And then
because of that though, I learned what Goodie Mob was,
and because of that, I learned about everything that happened
in Rico's basement. I learned about all of y'all and
and all of that, and I just wonder what your
maybe most positive takeaway is from working in a collective
(03:49):
like that when you're starting out when and I call
it a collector just because it seems like there's a
lot of effort that goes in from everybody, for every
you know, for everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I was Big Boys, punk ass friend, you know what
I mean? You know, between he had more house than
Homecoming was just past a few days to go spell
House spelled with the more House. I met the sea
Low Reddick, not Seelo from Goodie Mob, but the se
Low Reddick who was best friends with Big Boys from
the time they had been in you know, elementary school,
and we ran with his brother James. That's how I
(04:19):
met Big Boy. So I felt this lucky to be
around these guys as anybody in the world. The first
person that put his arms around me, how they've done
your family? Se Low Goodie he was a member of
Goodie Mob also, So I just felt honored to be
in the league. So whenever asked to do something fun
it I wouldn't even help care in the bag that's
water shot wrap, you know what. I mean I was.
I just felt happy. And Kujo went to my rival
(04:41):
high school and I went to He was older than
me when I went to Frederick Douglas High School. He
went to bend Rony Mags. And I'm a strong believer
that you're as good as your rival. So you need
a good rival high school to be your rival because
it makes you want to be better at academics, arts programs,
sports and everything else. So I believe there's a great
symbiotic relationship between two schools. But I just love those
guys man for after me, and I felt blessed to
(05:02):
be a part of collective because I had literally grown
up a fan, you know, while they were developing and growing.
I was the one of those day one thing. And
so I feel very honored to be a part of
the Dunja Man. That's amazing, And.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You've also been kind of creating your own collectives over time.
You're a great You're a great connector with people, and
that's where Okay, so we've got a couple of spoilers
for you and this conversation as we conversate, one of
your newest projects is of course, conversation Killer Mike. Typically
we begin with a little more background about our guests,
(05:34):
and not to be too atlantic about it, but I
kind of assume everybody already knows.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So working at it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, with success. So maybe start by telling us a
little bit about the providence of the origin story of
your newest project of conversation, Like how did you guys
start brainstorming?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I met this guy named Ramsey. He aggravated the shit
out of me about how my voice was needed in
the podcast world and how valuable it could be because he,
like you, described me as a connector. He's like, you know,
you're here in Atlanta, man, and you know so many
people and now the casual like come to my party
kind of know, but like literally jinguly connected to people.
(06:16):
You know, we could we could really use you. And
I'm just like, I don't know what the fuck are
you talking about. It's this weird, cool looking white guys
telling me you could do it, and I'm just like, man,
I don't what is it. I don't even understand podcasts.
And I see other people start to do it, to
start to take off. I know, I like listening to Joe.
I like listening to Joe Rogan, and you know, Joe
(06:36):
Budden's I like that, But I didn't think people really
cared to hear about me on a regular basis or
from me on a regular basis. I just knew when
I had a chance to talk, at least try to
leave people in the room more connected than not. You
know what I'm saying, Or I said on Shannon Sharp's
podcast recently, like listen and converse with one another, right,
or conversate with one another to understand the other perspective.
(06:57):
But understanding doesn't necessarily mean agreement. It just means I
understand now, I understand I may not have understood before.
So I grew with Ramsey kind of peeking it on
me a few times a year, a relationship with Ramsey
and which prowning into a friendship because he could see
further down the road and me, and he understood that
as much as we benefit from having you as a rapper,
you know, much as you benefit from having you care
(07:19):
about politics on a level hyper locally business, that we'd
really benefit if you got a chance to talk to
a bigger world. And I finally just broke town and
said fuck it all right, and let's do it. And
Ramsey's like, I'll do the hard part. I'll go get
the equipment. I'll make sure we can we can have,
you know, decent lunch at each one of them. But
let's start conversing with people. Let's conversate. And I'm glad
(07:40):
that I trusted my instincts because a lot of times
you may have a skill and you may not. It's
just it's just you, so you don't think of it
as a skill. Just I have the ability to talk.
I sit down on the plane. I still do the talks.
In third grade. Third grade, we took got on the
plane and told Eastern Company called Eastern before Delta was
the biggest in the world. It was like you sat
down and they taught you sit down and introduce yourself
(08:02):
to the person next to you. They and at that time,
I argue with people about this all the time. You
they tell you to put your bags opposite you so
you can see your bags. Okay, So I still do
that because I'm old and when people try to say,
stop fucking with my bags, so I need to see
my shit. But I'll introduced myself and that's how I've
met everyone, from people like Laura, Lenny. You know what
I'm saying, I'm just like, oh, you play on the bitch,
(08:24):
see my wife fucking loves you, and then I end
up playing with her best friend. I want to show
now the lowdown, you know what I mean. Ramsey was
one of those people I'm glad to introduced yourself to me,
and I got introduced on it because he saw something
in and around me that I couldn't see. Not that
I ain't believe it, I just didn't see it. And
my brother put it together and we're I think we're
some in the teams now in terms of episodes, but
(08:44):
I'm new. I like it because I'm genuinely curious. I
don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and I'm willing
to be coached. And I think that's my greatest asset.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know, talking it because she really Charlemagne, the God.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
The Same gave me the quote I will live with
wherever black. If you have a problem in society, you
can't just shit a ride a complaint because the retort
from anybody it's the most villainous ship I've heard. So
what the fuck are you gonna do about it? If
you don't like what the fuck I'm doing, What the
fucker you wanna do about it. It means I have
to work hard, get stronger, develop an alternative, and climb
(09:20):
the mountain, or the fuck you're gonna shut the fuck
up like a mother. And I'm just sitting there talking.
I'm just like, this is dope, Like this is this
is getting one of the greatest mayors this city's ever
had to tell how it really is. He says, how
many deals have really just been homeboys sitting around talking.
We got a coupletra billion to build a port in
(09:43):
Savannah because of his relationship, but with Barack Obama, Like,
if the funk you talking about we worried about these ports?
What about these ports? These ports directly affect working class
men in Georgia. That matters to me from you know. So,
I just thought that that was fucking incredible getting a
chance to talk to Charlemagne in a room like we
talked his friends oftentimes on the phone. And that is
amazing because I've seen his career progress from South Carolina
(10:05):
to taking over the biggest, you know, biggest artment space
in New York. So I love it. I get to
converse with my friends and people I may not know.
I get to understand different perspective, even if I don't
agree with I get to understand it. So it's something
I think I'm gonna do for a while.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You know, people, well, we can't wait to hear more.
We listened to the Casini Read episode specifically for one reason.
I don't know if Ramsey ever told you a story
about this. I don't know if you were there, Ramsey, No,
you were not there. We've worked at this company since six.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We can't get real jobs.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, so but you know, we were interns when we
started out, and you know we're now executive producers and
doing all this thing. But we've watched the company that
I heard podcasts now Owns changed so much. And one time,
a long time ago, we were at south By Southwest
and at that time a video writer, video producer. I know,
(10:58):
I think I was an editor and I wasn't even
invited along. So I was back here in Atlanta. But
everybody's at south By Southwest. They were given an opportunity
because it was a special Atlanta gathering at south By Yeah,
to either interview Kasim Read or you and the management
shows Casim Read and everybody on production team was like,
you know, it was.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
We were like the little kids who get pissed when
drives the cars.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, so they could have interviewed us together, right, I
had campaign for Cassine and they had been here about
a long time.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think it was schedules or whatever didn't work out.
It was just, you know, we were lower.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, I bet we would have been.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's one of those things we were trying. And I'm
sure the statute has passed so we can talk about
this story. But it's one of those things where you
probably find yourself explaining this to people who aren't from
Atlanta as well. What would I like to say to
anybody coming from out of town or out of the country,
is you have to understand about this city. The moment
you land in the airport, everybody here is gonna talk
(12:02):
to you as though you're vaguely related.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I watched some woman this
morning complain about how fucked up at what she had
moved from Houston to Atlanta, how rude and people weren't
in I was like, yeah, she loves in suburbs. I
was like, that's bitch outside twenty five because what's crazy
about Atlanta. Everybody does treat you like you vaguary related
or like they know you or know some one that does.
(12:25):
And I love this city because even if someone sucks
up and cuts you off, they rolled out and one,
hey man, my band. Man, I'm late man, trying to
get up to the Miss Jane Mount. Sorry, you get
on a genuine my band. So there's a there's still
a Southern hospitality in in even our rudeness, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
But I feel like that might be a specific situation
for you and they realize who you are there.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh I've seen I've seen them ast all the playoffs too. Man.
You know I love this city, man, I love it
still subject we still, in my opinion, our small town
operating as a big city.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Okay, yes, sir, you know, okay, I want to talk
about this. So myself and a few other people got
the opportunity in twenty seventeen to make a show called
Atlanta Monster. Yes, and it was all about Wayne Williams
talked to the cities. You did you talked really well?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I did an interview with so we were while an hour.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, no joke, okay, because we worked directly with paying
to make the shows for the US.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Just talked about it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh that's okay. So well, I don't want to take
anyway from anything away from that interview, but I just
wonder if you could just tell us because you were
like what a child as a kid.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, when it was late seventies, early eighties, Atlanta has
always been a city with lots of black people. In
the seventies, with white flight happening, Atlanta became a predominantly
black city. And under the reign of Atlanta's first black mayor,
who was Maynard Jackson on the second term, a proliferation
(13:57):
of murders in particularly with children from the inner city,
and there's a proliferation of anxiety and fear and what
was happening. I had friends whose mothers moved them up
to Connecticut. Hat a cousin who ended up moving with
his great grandmother out in Los Angeles. We were stayed.
But the culture of childhom and this is the last
key kids time. This is when moms had got out
(14:18):
and started working, and oftentimes you would be letting yourself
in and out. Kids weren't really looked after. Jen Nexters
talk about an exciting way, and Lord knows the exciting
but we'd go outside. Parents would know where we were for hours,
and these little black boys start disappearing, and no one
could answer why, who what happened? No one could answer
(14:41):
if it was the clan it was, if it was
government doing experiments on children, No one knew what happened.
A guy named Wane Williams, who was from my side
of the town, from the west side of Atlanta and
actually went to the same high school Frederic lenhol was
high school, ended up being convicted of killing two adults.
Some people argue the murders never stopped. Some people argue
(15:03):
they did with the lock up of him. Some people say, well,
the black prostitutes start being killed. No one said or
did any think about that. But it was very scared
and time. And the weird thing about the time, though,
is what kind of liberated us kids who had grown
up in this air fear and be home by the
time the lights come up and light night lights come
on and only moving packs of like four or five
six boys together. So I see the water boys, It
(15:23):
reminds me of that time. Now you see the boys
on the corner. We had to at that time moving
units like that because you didn't want to be caught
by yourself, even out to the point. One of my
I tell this when I talked to paint on Our
on the conversation podcasts of Mind. There was a time
where me and my cousin were walking from school together
and a funeral home hers stops, and two guys get
(15:47):
out dressed like Lamont Sandford from Sandford and the Sun. Yeah,
you know, and with the glass and the afroll and
beckons us to come, you know, as though they're lost
or something. What And man, we wait half a second,
we start screaming, running out and answers up the road
just because I'm like, we knew most of the funeral
homes along the Martha King Here corridor. My grandmother had
worked for Dawson Funeral. I'm just like, nah, I what
(16:09):
the fuck, get the fuck out out and trusted and
those guys scooted on the fuck out of there. So
I don't know what that was or wasn't, but I
know that the times made you, as a child more alert,
kept your head on the swivel. And what liberated it,
weirdly enough, was the plague of the In my opinion,
reagular administration backed cocaine proliferation and crack era. With the
(16:29):
crack era freed us as keyids up because when the
proliferational crack hit inner cities and it stopped being cocaine
and freebasing, something that was done added after discos and stuff,
and started to hit front streets at the car washings
and the housing projects. There was just people in the
streets then, and even though it was wilder and weirder
(16:51):
because of drugs, it felt safer Woa, because people were
out now. Even during the Atlanta child murders, you'd have
adults stand out on driveways and in their front yard
make sure you got home. But the crack era Man
and the Martyr Train when they finally opened up, gave
us a train. We were fucking free, man. We were
just it was it was just packs of kids that
would be jumping on trains going downtown came in for
(17:12):
fucking hours. But there was a real freedom in it.
And even that brought us all sets of monsters into minds.
But you know, I brought a certain demise of the community.
But the monster and the fear of the Atlanta mission
and murder kind of dissipated with the lock up of
Wane and with the freedom that interestingly enough, the drug
air brought on Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Man, and we'll pause here for a word from our sponsors.
But don't you worry.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
We'll be right back, and we're back with Killer Mike.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
You know, it's it's no secret that we're tremendous fans
of your work.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
In music, I would say, more importantly, one thing that
comes along earlyast personally as a as a fan of
the city, imperfect as it may be, one of the
most powerful things we've seen you do throughout your career
is community, is activism and positive change. And when we
(18:13):
you know, look, if you're a fan of hip hop, folks,
it's very easy, especially people who don't know much about
hip hop, it's very easy for them to dismiss the
work or to dismiss what is being explored. And one
of the things that continually is a thread through your collaborations,
through your solo work, through your team ups, is always
(18:35):
this message of telling the truth of economic uplift, of
the things your history textbooks might not have told us
if we were growing up. So I'm setting up some
stuff here. I'm sorry Matt if I'm going a little long.
I'm trying not to fanboy. But one thing when we
were all brainstorming our conversation today one thing that immediately
(18:55):
stood out as we said, well, Michael, what do you
want to talk about? Won't get to hang out? And
the top thing on the list, you said, the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, yeah, okay,
So I'm just gonna I'm gonna read the clip of
the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, I'm not gonna do a voice.
I really want to, but this is serious. So the
(19:15):
thirteenth Amendment says, neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as
a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been
duly convicted, shall exist within the United States deep breath,
or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have
the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, all right, slavery is very much alive A well,
you know, I say, of America.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, can you tell us about the loophole there in
the thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I didn't realize. Andy got I watched if you
guys have not watched doing the dirty work, Andrew Young,
Rachel Maddow, executive produced at John Holtebryant helped put this
thing together. First of all, shouts out that John Hoples
a friendly mentor. Rachel thank you for being a napkin
and an ally. Reverend Al Sharpton Houses event at Clark
last week, Andy Young was there to talk about doing
the dirty work. And doing the dirty work was him
(20:05):
being a negotiator with and foreign at the direction of
doctor King for the SELC partnering with Snick and John Lewis.
Was before John came on to SELC. Andy had a
hell of a run, you know, in terms of having
to do the dirty work while while people were you know,
mobilizing people. I didn't realize that he had gotten in
trouble for essentially saying similar that they were political prisoners
(20:30):
in the United States that had tons of them. Him
and Carter, you know, Carter hand picked him the ambassador.
That was one of the things where Carter's president had said,
God damn it, now, you can't make the country look bad,
so we gotta figure this one out. But Banandi told
the truth, Black people, working class people, and poor people
period are political prisoners more than not in this in
(20:52):
this country because slavery and involuntary servitude shouldn't exist, except
that's a big one. Accept and if you're a poor
white boy in the Lower Appellachian northern Alabama, you're the accept.
You're a poor white boy from Middle Georgia and Florida,
(21:14):
you're the accept. If you're a poor white woman eastern Alabama, Mississippi,
you're the accept because we may need to use your
body for six or seven years, similar to the way
they use the Irish as indentured service. Similar to those ways,
you're the accept. And I said, if you're poor and white, now,
if you're poor and black, you're the accept for the
(21:36):
rest of your fucking life, if we can get you.
I just interviewed a man named ak Bar Pray who
had been a drug distributor in New Jersey. He gets
locked up in nineteen ninety with a lifetime sentence. Now,
other people who have gotten locked up who don't look
like him don't get lifetime sentences. And I asked him,
(21:56):
you know, what do you think you deserve? Or one?
When I calls asks he's ho twenty there's a man
who's responsible enough to say okay. Under the louder the guidelines,
I would have ate twenty years. He was locked up
thirty six years in three months. He was given a
release date April nineteenth. I believe, well, what April up
twenty nineteen, and then right at then they told him, oh,
(22:17):
we made a mistake. Holy sh and I don't know
how to fuck He didn't go kill itself, you know
what I'm saying. But here he is now seventy seven
year old man and his only mission for the rest
of his life is to make sure other boys don't
put themselves in a position and women don't put themselves
in a position to be locked up for the rest
of life. So we do have a system of slavery
in this country. And you know when you have private
prisons thanks to raign that are allowed to proliferate and say, okay,
(22:40):
we're gonna build a private prison in Bubble Funck, Georgia.
Whether they're no jobs, this is gonna guarantee three hundred jobs.
This helps transform it and keep this economy. But we
have to stay eighty four percent in bed capacity. So
how can you guarantee an eighty four percent feel rate
if you don't have a loophole in that make sure
I can feel it, you know. So now petty crimes
(23:03):
become major crimes. Five grams of cocaine crack cocaine, and
he goes five hundred grams five hundred folks. You got
don't know, man, when you start talking about five grams,
isn't even worth two hundred bucks. Five hundred grams as
a half a kilo? Wow? You know? So there is
there is a grand conspiracy to keep slavery alive in
this country because bullshit laws allows this country to lock
(23:28):
up poor and I usually say it hurts us worse
than first black people, but poor people in general are
allowed to be used as free labor, and we should
all be concerned with that because it gives reason to
justify prisons, and especially private prisons. So when you talk
about that prison that our president was clicking his heels
about down in Florida that's surrounded by alligators, the fucked
(23:50):
up part about it is that prison, no matter what
Fox News says, it's going to house a lot of
poor white folks too. It's not poor white folks in Florida, right.
And at the same time, I'm seeing a black girl,
well a young woman on there saying, hey, man, if
you a CEO, will have the credentials to be a COO.
They're starting pay is higher than other places. So sit here.
So now you get a position where facilitily race aside.
(24:14):
Class becomes the issue because as a CEO, that's a
good job. Shit, you in the middle of fucking nowhere, Florida,
You all of a sudden make fifty sixty seventy grand
a fucking year for watching a bunch of poor people
no one gives a fuck about, and put alligators around them.
Even it's gonna be hard not to like capitalism. Then
you know what I'm saying, you won't.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Have shit going on. Hey, I'm from Ice. That much
money I'm getting you for signing up?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, for chasing down people who look like you or
just may be of the same you know, economic status
you are. So it's a time in this country. But
I hope and wish that people in our country start
to understand that not only Thirteenth Amendment classes it's racist.
It gets incentive for us to keep a slave population
in this country. And we don't do it redemptive. We
don't we unlike we used to. At times, we're not
(25:00):
sending in people for prison sentences and bringing out better people,
people who've had a chance to have some psychological diagnoses
and find out what's really going on, People who may
have gotten a chance to learn dis from the structure,
don't get out of enough time that they're young enough
to use it to be They don't have trades programs
in school, they don't even have you know, exercise equipment
(25:22):
and federal presents anymore. So it's a very weird thing
that we're using people's labor, and we use prisons for
cheap labor too, And you know, it's just very weird
to me that in this country, this republic that's so
proud of freedom in our propaganda, that we don't push
for freedom on at home, you know, on this clay.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
It's a suspicious I would say, yeah, I think it's
wuked up too, but it's very suspicious that it's just
kind of there's a there's a pretending, a collective pretending
that we all do like it's not there somehow.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, it's in the South. It's especially fucked up because
we're taught to be polite.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, we're taught to be polite. You know, there's some
things you just don't talk about until the rich Auntes
fucking son go to jail. Then everybody's talking about it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Okay, So I don't know if this is related at all,
but I think it might be at least because of
the history of the place. On the west side of
two eighty five, on the banks of the Chattahoochee River,
there's this huge abandoned lot that was once the Chattahoochie
Break Company.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
My grandfather worked for them.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
What does yeah, what does it represent for you? And
because I think at least back in the day they
used to least labor.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
My grandfather was on the Changang for a while. He
had told me about it that he had told me
in Matterson. When they say slavery, stop and my grandfather's
pirst person says, huh shit, they must not know about
shell cropping and chin Gangsin.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, I fucking chang gang.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
There were when you wi these Georgia State roads, when
you bought from the Chatahooche Break Company other companies, that
was that was forced labor, that the state was leasing
men out to their blood, sweat and tears that earned
all this equity for other people, always money for other people,
but nothing was the prison a pre pension plan. And
even beyond that, when you look at places like Cabbage Town,
(27:04):
there's this huge fucking warehouse using rule Georgians that they
brought up, paying them not in the US treasury bills
but in meal money, and then and then tripling the
price of goods they would only buy from the meal store.
So they don't give a fuck. In case you motherfuckers
don't know, they don't give a fuck about you niggas
or crackers, because the same people made both names. There's
(27:28):
a planner class here. What they call that. We hear
parents grandparents says that means master. It's a nice word
for master. That means there's I don't give a fuck
how much money I have as a rapper. My last
name is not Cox. If your last name is Cox
and fucking Georgia, you're not getting a ticket, Yeah you're not.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
You might get pulled over and apologize.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
And apologized to and GSP, don't apologize to nobody. You
know what I'm saying, George Charlie popping up apologizer. They
pulled me on what time? Said, man, we knew this
is your call. Just call them so cool and let
me the fuck go. I'm sitting there stone as fuck,
like God, damn just close. Don't ever be to be
on the cocks, because the cocks of what's got damn
money probably on the state. Like, we have to realize
(28:11):
that there is a difference and we have to start
looking past our differences to solve the bigger difference. Yeah,
you know, we have to stop. I'm from Comings, I'm
from Athams' man. I'm sure our mother's had about the
same amount of power. The question becomes, when do we
unite that power and just say we can't do this anymore.
We need to change the thirteenth Monument.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
And how would we how how would that collective action work,
especially when so many of the means of communication are controlled.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah. Powerful, but we're gonna have to get back to
those ten or fifteen people in each other's living rooms
and then in your church settings, and then you gets churches,
and I say that this, most people live around people
who look like them, unless they're searching for a diversity
or just everybody so broke the gotta looked at you.
So you know that they are conversations that are going
on in Atlanta, West Atlanta, and conversations going on in commons.
(29:02):
We know those people aren't just going to get together
unless it's at the model of fucking outlets. They're trying
to get in and out of there. But let's have
those conversations. Technology gives us the ability to have those conversations,
but let's filter through organizations we trust, whether it's a
local five oh one, C three or church. Then let's
have these church I remember being young and you'd have
these church meetups, and you know, the Presbyterian churches were
great about it about reaching out to black churches, and
(29:24):
then they'd have these fellow meetups, and shit, we need
to start doing this. So we just have honest dialogue.
And out of that dialogue you have conversation, you create
an understanding. It does not mean agreement, but you at
least have understanding. And through that understanding, I believe you
can start saying, well, what are the things that affect
us both now? Right now, the Supreme Court is about
to make a judgment or hear marijuana and guns. I'm
(29:45):
a big proponent of marijuana and I'm a big proponent
for guns. You should not give up your Second Amendment rights.
With that said, the fucking Court should not force you
to give up your Secondmendment rights because you smoke marijuana.
Forty percent of all gun involved violence and shooting our
alcohol involved. There is no goddamn plan on banning tequila
if you own a three fifty seven mag's just not
(30:07):
This is fucking Georgia. Most shiving guns go together. That
I'm never gonna did a fucking commercial with guns. Shouts
out the gun, shouts out to governor, kill right does
the gun? And I was like, I felt that commercial
dad daughters like you, but he's not gonna call the
band the gun. But in Georgia right now, if you
go to get a Georgia medical license, then you're gonna
have to evoke your well, we don't need him anymore
(30:27):
to have to giving up your concealed carry license. I
don't get I don't think we should make stoners don't
want to kill anyone Supreme courts. Stoners ain't trying to
kill anyone SOLDI as trying to shield the fuck out,
get high, go to sleep. Why you're gonna say what happened?
So when you think of it, though, if I think
of it, if I'm a tyrant and I want to
see Benillavant, you know, I do something that ss banilla
and I keep people laughing on Twitter and ship. But
what's the good way to d arm half the population
(30:49):
if half the population smokes marijuana? You revoked the right
to own a gun by saying because you smoke, Manuaza,
it's your choice.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
It doesn't feel like there's a specific demographic.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Young progressive people were willing to look past writing that's
nistening and say, these are the things we have in common,
like the fred Hampton crowd. And so I think we
as Americans have to get to the point where we
are fred Hampton like. And I thought that we will
sit now, speak, create understanding with and organize with others
who have a common interest, even if they don't look
like us.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And that also involves confronting.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Again.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I keep going back to the show we were sold
in our textbooks, you know, as products of public school.
It goes back to the idea of honestly, unflinchingly confronting
those uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh guys, time to pay some bills. We're gonna hear
some mads. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
One thing we talked about briefly before we started rolling
was I want to go back to your family history. Yeah,
you know, having roots in Alabama. You mentioned that you
of a personal relationship with the Tuskegees.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yes, my grand my great grandfather, Nah Black man his
father or grandfather was using the experiment. I don't think
my family got one hundred bucks in retribution or or
you know, or money's for I think it. I think
my cousin talked about it in some book that I
didn't read. It was like twelve or fifteen bucks. I
don't think it was at That's what you know. My
great grandfather, my great grand mother and father. I knew
(32:25):
my great grandmother died when I was nine years old.
So when I said I kne him, I kne him.
They sent us down, slept in their house. Fucking pick
got eggs from under the chickens, We got water from
the well. Like knew these people. And to know that
these people were related to someone that was using the
experiment that they ended, I don't think ending until seventy two, seventy,
you know, so it was forty years easy. But to
know that, and our farm is only two miles from
(32:47):
the school from Tusky University. To know that I have
that history, to know that on my father's side we're
owned by were owned by the laws by Crawford Longs
family father's side, but yeah, we were owned by them, yep.
So for you know, my father's fucking fair skinned man
with curly hair. So somebody was fucking and those weren't
(33:09):
voluntary fucks. So you know that you're a private the
rape on that side, This country's been an interesting country,
and I'm a patriot. I love this Republican what could
potentially be of it. But with that said, I can
never ignore the fact when I hear dumb motherfuckers talking
about how I didn't experience slavery. It was so long ago,
it was far. My great grandmother's mother was enslaved. She
(33:30):
taught her mother to read, she taught her children to read.
I knew that woman until I was nine, held her hands,
sat on her lap as de mentor robbed of who
she was, and she went from calling me Michael the
Feller and slowly withered away in front of my grandmother's
I knew her, I knew her husband, my great grandfather N. H.
Black Man. The farm they brought with both their names
on the DS is in my phone. I look at
it every single day when I pray and think about
(33:51):
me and my wife and what we're trying to grow.
So I know my parents were both born in apartheid.
Born in nineteen fifty five, nineteen fifty nine. They were
born into a world where they couldn't had their parents
not being people who are highly respected, they could have
not walked in front doors at some of the stores
that I tend today. So it's just like, Man, get
the fuck out of here. I don't I don't want
to hear you know, what was so long agoing? Was
(34:11):
that because these things affect African American steal and.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
It's never really that long ago. I think it's it's
something that you know, it's something that I think a
lot of people in the United States for for else,
a lot of white people honestly prefer not to really
think about.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, it's the politeness. It it's don't it's the same
reason you allow children to be abused in your church
or home. You don't do anything about it because it's
ugly and it's messing and it stinks. But you got
to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Because history is closer than it looks in that.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Man, I want to switch gears for just a second.
What I'm going to read a lyric for you, because
I think it's something that you were and it was
it was a little while ago, and we chose these
carefully by the way it speaks to something that recently
happened in the news, just like a current events thing. Okay,
(35:09):
here he goes, and I'm sitting down doing hard time,
pissing in a metal bowl, eating shit from a lunch line.
In here. Nobody knows you by your name, just another
number living under bitch ass rules of a broken game.
They put me in here to die and left me
angry and alone for the crime of being old. They
threw me in this nursing home.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
What's it? What's all is it?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
It's from South Park?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh, and it's.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
So good, by the way, season twenty one, gotta check
it out. Do you have any thoughts on what happened
or what is happening with South Park with you know,
some of the late night hosts, with the First Amendment,
with what's going on with any of that kind of
control or anything.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I know that our First Amendment rights are constantly under
attack from the government. Yeah, that that's what I know,
that that that they're constantly under attack. And I would
advise people to start thinking past this hurts my feelings,
so it should be banned, and start to think who
(36:16):
am I not allowed to criticize at all?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
That's dangerous, tho, Michael, You.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Got to say, who can I not talk about? And
why can I not talk about it? Why is this
president so so vicious in his attack backs and point aus?
Why can't I criticize him? Why can't I? Why can't
I criticize some groups and not other groups? Why can't I?
Why can't I be vocal and honest about any and everything?
And why do I want others to be silenced and
(36:47):
not me? What I've seen today, the greatest danger is
in if I don't agree with you, I want you silence,
no matter what side you are. You know what I'm saying.
I don't give a fuck what you're saying. I give
a fuck that you have the right to say say it. Yeah,
what you're saying, I don't give a fuck. I got
some shit I'm gonna say after you say that stupid
shit you say. So I'm not bothered by a lot
(37:08):
of the people who don't agree with what I'm saying.
I'm not bothered by what they're saying because my thing
is if Elija Muhammad city years ago, if you take
a glass of water that's dirty, you put it there.
You don't offer people in alternative. They're gonna have to
drink it. They're gonna, well, you need water for substance.
But if I put a clean water right next to it,
and people are gonna be attractive. And so it's simply
(37:30):
my job to put my version of what I think
the best water is out there and in the public
or pubicler be pulled to on the side. But I'm
very worried when people that I see myself an alliance
agreeance with I, you know, philosophically, start to say I
want that other side of silence. Yes, that that that
starts to spook me. Chompsky talks about it. Yeah, to
(37:50):
watch the old man when he talks about it. He
pissed a lot of people off, for this is the truth.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
He doesn't miss it.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, if you don't want, he does it. If you
don't want the same rights that you have for your
most bitter than me, and you don't you don't really
care about those, right.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, we traveled, you know, you've traveled quite a bit.
And one thing that hits us often is, you know,
here in the United States, it can be quite expensive
to ever get out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so
a lot of people don't have the opportunity to know
that the First Amendment right is something that is super fragile,
(38:23):
always under attack. I love the fact that someone as
dumb as me can wake up, have a bad day,
talk some shit, and not get black bags into a van.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Come Eric Nelson, my friend, man who wrote lyrics on Trial,
Wrap on Trial. Read that book, guys, and get more
familiar area. We're going to put some type of cross
country talk together where he he sees how Facebook posts
are getting guys, three four, five, six, seven, eight years Facebook.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Oh yeah, like the Charlie Kirk stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that kind of shit. Like
you know, I'm you know people. I called my daughter
and I said, hey, you know, people want to be
coming to your campus to try to incite you to
get a debate. I said, just ignore it, go to class,
have your talk with your friends, do some organizing. I
don't want you to become political father on someone's page
(39:16):
simply because they want to get you riled up. And
the best way to effectively show someone that I truly
believe in the First Amendment is to simply say, go
go here. This is a black campus. You can talk
all that Charlie kirks you if you want to. We
got classes to go to. Nobody's gonna pay you much attention, Bubba.
We'll see you at the end of the day when
no one's engaged you. I don't have a reason to
fucking engage you. I already know I don't agree with you,
(39:38):
but I already know you don't know what the fuck
you're talking about. You're just saying things to incite people,
and I give you that. You know the stokely Carmichael
called me to her said, you know the powers not
in your ability to call me nigga. Fuck you called
me nigga. The powers in it if you tell me
when nigga, you can't do it and your power is effective.
See nin nigga, you can't vote if I keep walking
to vote, but vote, I don't give a buck with you.
(40:00):
But when you can put state patrol in front of
that boating room and say nigga, you can't vote, oh,
then niggas got to heck up. Then we got to
go to war with you under state patrol because now
you're denying me my right by use of force. Then
the word nigga has has someone wait to it because
you're preventing me through an armor of government. And that's
what people. Don't stop giving your power to government. Be uncomfortable.
(40:22):
Just go ahead and be fucking uncomfortable because I'm in
the UK. I'm stolen as a motherfucker, and I know
to shut the fuck up because they have hate speech
laws there, and I'm like, yeah, I'm an American. I
don't give a fuck about the monarchy, you hate speech laws.
I don't give you know what I like. I like
your breakfast because my grandfather ate beans and fucking blood
(40:44):
putting from breakfast too. But yeah, you guys ain't got
it fucking right. That's why we fucking left, you know
what I mean? In Americans need to realize that, like,
don't become your fucking parents.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, yeah, you fuck out, Bubba. We have to that
sometimes on the show too, where I think we pulled
it back a little bit over the years, where we
would say, you know, we have a lot of British friends,
we love everybody. Yeah, but also you guys know you're
a tribal system and on archipelago.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Right, it's very strange.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
It's weird, like what are your qualifications for being the king?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
It's also weird how yes, yes, yeah, Like like Michael
Jackson touched princes down in Prinsident and the old boy
husband ever got mad, right, I might should have fucked her,
Like the fuck you mean?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I can't? Bits got too laughs too arms, just like me.
I'm Michael fucking Jackson. I mean, I'm very serious in that,
Like we don't understand and what I'm saying. We are
talking to.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Oh also Dylan Ramsey, we're keeping it.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah yeah, keeping that hard. That's all wrong, okay. But
as Americans, both both privileged and unprivileged, both have and
have nots, we are freer in in theory in terms
of this republic on paper that any other society on earth.
You are wealthy with those freedoms, use them before you
before you voluntarily give them away. You know, I remember
(42:14):
telling after the American said, before you jump on the
no gun ship, you show you're probably on farm. You shooting,
go shooting me a little bit.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Don't see a place where you can't do that.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, you fucking get you get killed
for three grands of marijuana. Jeff sentenced for three grands
of fucking weed, Like what the fuck? Like, you gotta
think about this ship man, ship's fucked up out here. Man,
you got those beautiful bodies for my wife For the time,
I said, what the fuck do you want to go
to Bolly for? So the we don't do. We're gonna
(42:47):
meditate with Russell Simmons. There's no weed there, I said,
we can go to fucking Destined and get house fucking
koba weed be out the deck stays smoking the rest
of the weed. Yeahn't because give it back to you. Yeah,
it's like, yeah, party, you don't have enough, like yeah,
fucking Destined Like it's like, bro, you We truly have
an amazing country. We have an amazing country if you
(43:11):
drive from coast to coast in terms of what it
looks like, the different geography you gotta see, we got
an amazing country in the terms of the things you
can see in people, you can experience, the place you
can experience from the houses of the hot coast. We
have an amazing country. Take some time to if you
can't get out the country, to get around the country.
Take some time to converse with people who don't look
(43:31):
like you. You know who don't I have a friend.
Man's names Mike Man oh Gi, Mike and Ohio. I
met Mike on a plane coming from the on coming
from one of the car auctions man, and we just
have become buddies. He's a great old man and that's
time we talk. He said, I don't imagine you have
the same political abuse house, Like you'd be fucking surprised
on the guns Mike, like he owns millions of dollars
in fucking old muscle cars and shit, and find lf
(43:53):
like how the buck did you get rich? Like I
know how I got Negro rich service, how you're fucking rich?
And you were overalls? And he's like I was in college.
I wasn't very much interested. So I started drawing out
some stuff out of improved farm equipment, almost like this
large farm equipment company. She's rich and shit. I've grown
as a human from knowing him because we have a
(44:14):
common interest in old cars. But he has so much
wisdom and energy to give and poor to me. This
kid that he doesn't even know which way I vote,
but he doesn't give a fuck. He just cares that
I get to enjoy the American dream. He loved the
fact that I'm a father and a dad and that
I'm respectful. I love the fact that he breaks every
old white man stereotype, you know, beyond like he dresses
(44:35):
like an old white guy, looks like an old white guy.
You know what I'm saying. I might be the only
rapper he listens to, but you walk in fucking his garage.
He has, fucking man, it's got like half a million
dollars and whiskeys from across the world. I'm just like,
he's one of the most renaissance man I've ever met.
Yet he just looks like any guy walking out of
the appellation with a bottle of shine. And if we
don't start to value that about him ourselves, James Balbin
(44:57):
talk about is having to come to a recording because
ain't going to pick up and move back to Africa.
Whites ain't definitely ain't feel I know, the Scott's and
Irish ain't going back. They're like, fuck that we worked
hard in the first seven years. Bee, we're here. If
we don't take some time to re establish who we
are as individuals. What makes you feel good? Your family,
your communities. But realize that America's like these quills said
my great grandmother used to make. My great grandmother would
(45:18):
have us in the summers, come down and bring your
old clothes. So you brought your old blue jeans, your
old sweaters and stuff. And then she would just take
the next few days. She just cut all the shit
up in the squares, triangles, whatever, and then she starts sewing.
And by the time we were leaving or people were
leaving my grandmother's house, everyone we have a blanket. But
your blanket wasn't just your shit. It was your cousin's patchwork.
(45:41):
It was your patch it was other cousin, you know
what I mean. And we still have these blankets. My
sisters and now another family member still have these. That's
what this country is. We're not a big bowl of
suit where everybody kind of dissipates with the boiling water
boils down who you are. We're not that, you know.
We're not a salad where people can just kind of
pick out the parts they don't like and don't like,
and you know, you just eat the parts of Like us,
(46:02):
we are quilt. Some parts there that quilts going to
be dinom so she put a softer thing on the
other side. Some parts of the piece are going to
be a piece of your polo shirt that was your favorite,
your mom hated it, you know what I mean, There's
going to be parts of your fucking dad's old playboys
shirt on their and shit. But if it really is
a connector all I've wanted to be, what's a thread
that kept that connection going? Because as much in as
(46:24):
many differences as we have in this country, there's some
things that make us uniquely American that are so beautiful.
Bautist Republic, we have not truly exercised him our First
Amendment rights to one of them. These guys are some
assholes sometimes, but I watch to kind of kill time
the First Amendment auditors. The auditors, come on, come on,
all right, those these guys that go out on the
(46:44):
fucking curve and they just fucking start filming shit. Yeah,
Oh they're ballsy motherfuckers.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Man.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
They film banks, they film hospitals, they go to police
stations to film because it's legal. Your First Amendment rights
gives you the right the symbol freedom of religiend, freedom
of press, and freedom of spirit, truth gathering school, noized government.
So you can sit down on the sidewalk, you can
film all day. Cops come hey, you know what I'm telling
what you're doing? No, because it's your first Amendment right
not to Well, all right, let me see you I
(47:13):
D No. If you can't articulate reasonable suspicion or an
actual crime I've done, I'm not required to give you
a D. This is the best way to teach the Amendments.
I'm like, why doesn't this happen in schools? Why the
fuck could man to read? The way I learned civics
was Miss Ellison, who was a fucking tyrant. She was
(47:33):
a shape like a little bowling ball. She had a
fucking three stooges haircut like fucking Larry you know, whichever
one's going to have, and she had a peg leg.
It was impossible not to laugh, right, Why dare you
do it? This motherfuck was? My mother had her at
fifteen while pregnant with me. Oh wow, she told my mother,
(47:55):
and my mother laughed at her. Okay, okay, we'll see
you again. My mother had to take the Sibby's class
back over as a singer.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
When my mother found out I had Miss Ellison's the
civic teacher, she told me, you shut the fuck up. Yeah,
and you sit at the front of the class and
you don't say a fucking word. What the fuck are
you talking about. I'm like this, CI, I have an
understanding of what I mean. Miss Elison said, what's your name?
I said, her name is Michael. She says, Michael. What
(48:24):
said Michael? Render? My mother's main last name was Cluntz.
She said, I no, no, what's your mother's name? I said,
her mother's name is Denise Denise? What I said, her
name is Denise Smith? What was her name when she
went here? I said, what name is u? Zella? Zella class? Oh?
Go ask your mama about me? Wow, somewhere home as
my mom els exactly crazy, brother, And she's like, you
(48:48):
shut the fuck up. You said the funning class, You
shut the fuck I came the next day and Miss
Elton I said, it's back calling out home and she
went in to see me. Shut the fuck up. Miss
Ellison said, Michael. I said, yes, ma'am. She says, and
it's the class not quiet. She says, did you talk
(49:08):
to your mother? I said, yes, ma'am. What she tell you?
She told me to sit at the front of the
class and to shut up. She said, well, there's a
spot for you here. I walked my ass up, sat
next to Shari read so me and Shari Read. I
was just like, God, damn, this bitch got a target
on my back. Brother. And for the rest of that semester,
(49:33):
that woman taught me why to love America in terms
of how principle it could be because she was a tyrant.
She was a tyrant. I knew I deserved that a
in that class. I knew Shari Read was reading off
my fucking paper. That lady gave me a B plus.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
Shit it on me, but do you feel it?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
But I understood her wanting me to understand the Bill
of Rights, the Amendments, what this republic promise, and the
way she exercise that when she showed me what titalitarianism
was because in her classroom she was an absolute dictator.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Not a democracy.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
It was not a democracy in that class. And it
made me love the potential of what this could be.
And she tested. She bring me up in front of
class explain to these other people what that means because
she knew I had to understand. She knew I got it,
but she didn't give me a break me in. At
the end she said, what do you think you deserved?
I said, I deserve eight Yeah, yeah, I should have
said hey. Plus she brought me down to ay. That
(50:28):
brought me down to be plus I was mad, I
was dyslectric, so my writing might have been fucked up.
But she that conditioning, you know, along with later reading
Chomskin things like that, really conditioned me to love the potential.
But what we are has to be maintained. It's not
something that's static and just we can just accept it is.
(50:49):
It has to be the line has to be pushed
on a constant and consistent basis.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Democracy is like any other muscle. If you don't use.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
It, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
And hold the phone, don't run the jewels just yet, Dylan,
we get a sound effect, all right, that's perfect. We've
had such an amazing exploration here that we're actually making
this a two part interview and through the magic of editing, Matt,
you and I don't know exactly where this part of
(51:20):
the interview stops.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
We have no idea. Oh we're sitting here with baited
breath just like you. Is there going to be more?
They say there's gonna be more. I hope there's more.
We talked a lot more.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
We sure did, and we would love to hear from
you folks, so please tune in to part two of
our interview on conversation with none other than the legendary
Killer Mike. In the meantime, we'd love to hear your thoughts,
so you can find us online Conspiracy Stuff, Conspiracy Stuff
show anywhere there's an at sign something like that, I'll
(51:51):
get you there. You can also call us on the phone.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Our number is one eight three three std wy TK
Oh my ai God. We haven't been able to do
that in a while. Thank you, Ben. That's our phone number.
You can call it. It's a voicemail system. When you
call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let us
know if we can use your name and message on
the air. If you'd like to instead send us an email,
(52:15):
you can.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
We are the entities the red piece of correspondence we received.
Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back,
what do we mean? There's one way to find out.
Join us here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Folks, fellow conspiracy realists. Before we get started today, we
thought it important to let you know this is an
explicit series.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A little bit, a.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Little bit, a lot of bit, you know what I mean. Tomato, Tomato.
We are very much against censorship. We try to keep
things pg. Thirteen, But for this, Matt, we had to
make an acception.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yes, just be aware who you're listening to. It around
and if you're feeling a bit weak of the stomach.
If not, then carry.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Forth from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
A production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Noel is on adventures, but will be returning shortly.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the
Tennessee pal Facin, as well as our guest superproducer Ramsey
Ram jams Yunt. Ramsey's in the house. Now, look, folks,
we have something extraordinary for you this evening. It's a
thank you for everyone who waited for us to return
from the High Seas. True story okay, oh better yet
(01:28):
went along with us. So tonight we're having a wide
ranging conversation exploring everything from Tuskegee to the Thirteenth Amendment, WikiLeaks,
hip hop programming, so much more. Get this, folks, We're
not doing it alone. I can't believe this is a
true story. Matt. We are joined live and direct in
person with the activists, the musician, the legendary MC and
(01:52):
creator of the hit new podcast Conversation with Killer Mike Michael.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I do here. How you doing?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Man's insane that you're sitting right next to us in
real life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm happy to be here, and you guys know, my god,
Man Ramsey gets me. We do Hey, man, I think
we should do this. We mob out to do.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
But we've been sitting back admiring your work for I
can't even tell you how many years. Man, thank you
and and just everything you do, your solo work, RTJ,
your your the work you've done in the sphere especially. Look,
we were feeling I don't want to speak for everybody,
but some of us were feeling the burn very hard
at a time.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's my guy, Jeseuz, my god.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So just you know, going back and just watching your
work for a long time. Yeah, I was going to
take it back to Georgia State really quickly shore mine,
of course. Okay, So when my friends and I graduated
the film program there at Georgia State, which was, in
our opinion, one of the best film programs out there,
we loved it. We learned so much. We started a
small production company and one of the first things we
(02:56):
shot was this little cooking show that was, you know,
we're shooting a pilot for it, trying to get it off,
and it was gonna be in Atlanta based cooking show.
And the first person that we shot on that show
is this guy who went by Kujo, and we were like,
but at the time, for me, I have no idea
who this person is. I think he's just going by
(03:16):
a cool name from a scary movie that maybe dogs
I didn't know who he was. You know, I'm a
small town Georgia kid out in the suburbs.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Him up like.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
This around we are, we're getting ready for camera, we're
lighting in, we're just doing all this stuff. And then
because of that though, I learned what Goodie Mob was,
and because of that, I learned about everything that happened
in Rico's basement. I learned about all of y'all and
and all of that, and I just wonder what your
maybe most positive takeaway is from working in a collective
(03:49):
like that when you're starting out when and I call
it a collector just because it seems like there's a
lot of effort that goes in from everybody, for every
you know, for everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I was Big Boys, punk ass friend, you know what
I mean? You know, between he had more house than
Homecoming was just past a few days to go spell
House spelled with the more House. I met the sea
Low Reddick, not Seelo from Goodie Mob, but the se
Low Reddick who was best friends with Big Boys from
the time they had been in you know, elementary school,
and we ran with his brother James. That's how I
(04:19):
met Big Boy. So I felt this lucky to be
around these guys as anybody in the world. The first
person that put his arms around me, how they've done
your family? Se Low Goodie he was a member of
Goodie Mob also, So I just felt honored to be
in the league. So whenever asked to do something fun
it I wouldn't even help care in the bag that's
water shot wrap, you know what. I mean I was.
I just felt happy. And Kujo went to my rival
(04:41):
high school and I went to He was older than
me when I went to Frederick Douglas High School. He
went to bend Rony Mags. And I'm a strong believer
that you're as good as your rival. So you need
a good rival high school to be your rival because
it makes you want to be better at academics, arts programs,
sports and everything else. So I believe there's a great
symbiotic relationship between two schools. But I just love those
guys man for after me, and I felt blessed to
(05:02):
be a part of collective because I had literally grown
up a fan, you know, while they were developing and growing.
I was the one of those day one thing. And
so I feel very honored to be a part of
the Dunja Man. That's amazing, And.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You've also been kind of creating your own collectives over time.
You're a great You're a great connector with people, and
that's where Okay, so we've got a couple of spoilers
for you and this conversation as we conversate, one of
your newest projects is of course, conversation Killer Mike. Typically
we begin with a little more background about our guests,
(05:34):
and not to be too atlantic about it, but I
kind of assume everybody already knows.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So working at it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, with success. So maybe start by telling us a
little bit about the providence of the origin story of
your newest project of conversation, Like how did you guys
start brainstorming?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I met this guy named Ramsey. He aggravated the shit
out of me about how my voice was needed in
the podcast world and how valuable it could be because he,
like you, described me as a connector. He's like, you know,
you're here in Atlanta, man, and you know so many
people and now the casual like come to my party
kind of know, but like literally jinguly connected to people.
(06:16):
You know, we could we could really use you. And
I'm just like, I don't know what the fuck are
you talking about. It's this weird, cool looking white guys
telling me you could do it, and I'm just like, man,
I don't what is it. I don't even understand podcasts.
And I see other people start to do it, to
start to take off. I know, I like listening to Joe.
I like listening to Joe Rogan, and you know, Joe
(06:36):
Budden's I like that, But I didn't think people really
cared to hear about me on a regular basis or
from me on a regular basis. I just knew when
I had a chance to talk, at least try to
leave people in the room more connected than not. You
know what I'm saying, Or I said on Shannon Sharp's
podcast recently, like listen and converse with one another, right,
or conversate with one another to understand the other perspective.
(06:57):
But understanding doesn't necessarily mean agreement. It just means I
understand now, I understand I may not have understood before.
So I grew with Ramsey kind of peeking it on
me a few times a year, a relationship with Ramsey
and which prowning into a friendship because he could see
further down the road and me, and he understood that
as much as we benefit from having you as a rapper,
you know, much as you benefit from having you care
(07:19):
about politics on a level hyper locally business, that we'd
really benefit if you got a chance to talk to
a bigger world. And I finally just broke town and
said fuck it all right, and let's do it. And
Ramsey's like, I'll do the hard part. I'll go get
the equipment. I'll make sure we can we can have,
you know, decent lunch at each one of them. But
let's start conversing with people. Let's conversate. And I'm glad
(07:40):
that I trusted my instincts because a lot of times
you may have a skill and you may not. It's
just it's just you, so you don't think of it
as a skill. Just I have the ability to talk.
I sit down on the plane. I still do the talks.
In third grade. Third grade, we took got on the
plane and told Eastern Company called Eastern before Delta was
the biggest in the world. It was like you sat
down and they taught you sit down and introduce yourself
(08:02):
to the person next to you. They and at that time,
I argue with people about this all the time. You
they tell you to put your bags opposite you so
you can see your bags. Okay, So I still do
that because I'm old and when people try to say,
stop fucking with my bags, so I need to see
my shit. But I'll introduced myself and that's how I've
met everyone, from people like Laura, Lenny. You know what
I'm saying, I'm just like, oh, you play on the bitch,
(08:24):
see my wife fucking loves you, and then I end
up playing with her best friend. I want to show
now the lowdown, you know what I mean. Ramsey was
one of those people I'm glad to introduced yourself to me,
and I got introduced on it because he saw something
in and around me that I couldn't see. Not that
I ain't believe it, I just didn't see it. And
my brother put it together and we're I think we're
some in the teams now in terms of episodes, but
(08:44):
I'm new. I like it because I'm genuinely curious. I
don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and I'm willing
to be coached. And I think that's my greatest asset.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know, talking it because she really Charlemagne, the God.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
The Same gave me the quote I will live with
wherever black. If you have a problem in society, you
can't just shit a ride a complaint because the retort
from anybody it's the most villainous ship I've heard. So
what the fuck are you gonna do about it? If
you don't like what the fuck I'm doing, What the
fucker you wanna do about it. It means I have
to work hard, get stronger, develop an alternative, and climb
(09:20):
the mountain, or the fuck you're gonna shut the fuck
up like a mother. And I'm just sitting there talking.
I'm just like, this is dope, Like this is this
is getting one of the greatest mayors this city's ever
had to tell how it really is. He says, how
many deals have really just been homeboys sitting around talking.
We got a coupletra billion to build a port in
(09:43):
Savannah because of his relationship, but with Barack Obama, Like,
if the funk you talking about we worried about these ports?
What about these ports? These ports directly affect working class
men in Georgia. That matters to me from you know. So,
I just thought that that was fucking incredible getting a
chance to talk to Charlemagne in a room like we
talked his friends oftentimes on the phone. And that is
amazing because I've seen his career progress from South Carolina
(10:05):
to taking over the biggest, you know, biggest artment space
in New York. So I love it. I get to
converse with my friends and people I may not know.
I get to understand different perspective, even if I don't
agree with I get to understand it. So it's something
I think I'm gonna do for a while.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You know, people, well, we can't wait to hear more.
We listened to the Casini Read episode specifically for one reason.
I don't know if Ramsey ever told you a story
about this. I don't know if you were there, Ramsey, No,
you were not there. We've worked at this company since six.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We can't get real jobs.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, so but you know, we were interns when we
started out, and you know we're now executive producers and
doing all this thing. But we've watched the company that
I heard podcasts now Owns changed so much. And one time,
a long time ago, we were at south By Southwest
and at that time a video writer, video producer. I know,
(10:58):
I think I was an editor and I wasn't even
invited along. So I was back here in Atlanta. But
everybody's at south By Southwest. They were given an opportunity
because it was a special Atlanta gathering at south By Yeah,
to either interview Kasim Read or you and the management
shows Casim Read and everybody on production team was like,
you know, it was.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
We were like the little kids who get pissed when
drives the cars.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, so they could have interviewed us together, right, I
had campaign for Cassine and they had been here about
a long time.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think it was schedules or whatever didn't work out.
It was just, you know, we were lower.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, I bet we would have been.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's one of those things we were trying. And I'm
sure the statute has passed so we can talk about
this story. But it's one of those things where you
probably find yourself explaining this to people who aren't from
Atlanta as well. What would I like to say to
anybody coming from out of town or out of the country,
is you have to understand about this city. The moment
you land in the airport, everybody here is gonna talk
(12:02):
to you as though you're vaguely related.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I watched some woman this
morning complain about how fucked up at what she had
moved from Houston to Atlanta, how rude and people weren't
in I was like, yeah, she loves in suburbs. I
was like, that's bitch outside twenty five because what's crazy
about Atlanta. Everybody does treat you like you vaguary related
or like they know you or know some one that does.
(12:25):
And I love this city because even if someone sucks
up and cuts you off, they rolled out and one,
hey man, my band. Man, I'm late man, trying to
get up to the Miss Jane Mount. Sorry, you get
on a genuine my band. So there's a there's still
a Southern hospitality in in even our rudeness, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
But I feel like that might be a specific situation
for you and they realize who you are there.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh I've seen I've seen them ast all the playoffs too. Man.
You know I love this city, man, I love it
still subject we still, in my opinion, our small town
operating as a big city.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Okay, yes, sir, you know, okay, I want to talk
about this. So myself and a few other people got
the opportunity in twenty seventeen to make a show called
Atlanta Monster. Yes, and it was all about Wayne Williams
talked to the cities. You did you talked really well?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I did an interview with so we were while an hour.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, no joke, okay, because we worked directly with paying
to make the shows for the US.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Just talked about it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh that's okay. So well, I don't want to take
anyway from anything away from that interview, but I just
wonder if you could just tell us because you were
like what a child as a kid.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, when it was late seventies, early eighties, Atlanta has
always been a city with lots of black people. In
the seventies, with white flight happening, Atlanta became a predominantly
black city. And under the reign of Atlanta's first black mayor,
who was Maynard Jackson on the second term, a proliferation
(13:57):
of murders in particularly with children from the inner city,
and there's a proliferation of anxiety and fear and what
was happening. I had friends whose mothers moved them up
to Connecticut. Hat a cousin who ended up moving with
his great grandmother out in Los Angeles. We were stayed.
But the culture of childhom and this is the last
key kids time. This is when moms had got out
(14:18):
and started working, and oftentimes you would be letting yourself
in and out. Kids weren't really looked after. Jen Nexters
talk about an exciting way, and Lord knows the exciting
but we'd go outside. Parents would know where we were for hours,
and these little black boys start disappearing, and no one
could answer why, who what happened? No one could answer
(14:41):
if it was the clan it was, if it was
government doing experiments on children, No one knew what happened.
A guy named Wane Williams, who was from my side
of the town, from the west side of Atlanta and
actually went to the same high school Frederic lenhol was
high school, ended up being convicted of killing two adults.
Some people argue the murders never stopped. Some people argue
(15:03):
they did with the lock up of him. Some people say, well,
the black prostitutes start being killed. No one said or
did any think about that. But it was very scared
and time. And the weird thing about the time, though,
is what kind of liberated us kids who had grown
up in this air fear and be home by the
time the lights come up and light night lights come
on and only moving packs of like four or five
six boys together. So I see the water boys, It
(15:23):
reminds me of that time. Now you see the boys
on the corner. We had to at that time moving
units like that because you didn't want to be caught
by yourself, even out to the point. One of my
I tell this when I talked to paint on Our
on the conversation podcasts of Mind. There was a time
where me and my cousin were walking from school together
and a funeral home hers stops, and two guys get
(15:47):
out dressed like Lamont Sandford from Sandford and the Sun. Yeah,
you know, and with the glass and the afroll and
beckons us to come, you know, as though they're lost
or something. What And man, we wait half a second,
we start screaming, running out and answers up the road
just because I'm like, we knew most of the funeral
homes along the Martha King Here corridor. My grandmother had
worked for Dawson Funeral. I'm just like, nah, I what
(16:09):
the fuck, get the fuck out out and trusted and
those guys scooted on the fuck out of there. So
I don't know what that was or wasn't, but I
know that the times made you, as a child more alert,
kept your head on the swivel. And what liberated it,
weirdly enough, was the plague of the In my opinion,
reagular administration backed cocaine proliferation and crack era. With the
(16:29):
crack era freed us as keyids up because when the
proliferational crack hit inner cities and it stopped being cocaine
and freebasing, something that was done added after discos and stuff,
and started to hit front streets at the car washings
and the housing projects. There was just people in the
streets then, and even though it was wilder and weirder
(16:51):
because of drugs, it felt safer Woa, because people were
out now. Even during the Atlanta child murders, you'd have
adults stand out on driveways and in their front yard
make sure you got home. But the crack era Man
and the Martyr Train when they finally opened up, gave
us a train. We were fucking free, man. We were
just it was it was just packs of kids that
would be jumping on trains going downtown came in for
(17:12):
fucking hours. But there was a real freedom in it.
And even that brought us all sets of monsters into minds.
But you know, I brought a certain demise of the community.
But the monster and the fear of the Atlanta mission
and murder kind of dissipated with the lock up of
Wane and with the freedom that interestingly enough, the drug
air brought on Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Man, and we'll pause here for a word from our sponsors.
But don't you worry.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
We'll be right back, and we're back with Killer Mike.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
You know, it's it's no secret that we're tremendous fans
of your work.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
In music, I would say, more importantly, one thing that
comes along earlyast personally as a as a fan of
the city, imperfect as it may be, one of the
most powerful things we've seen you do throughout your career
is community, is activism and positive change. And when we
(18:13):
you know, look, if you're a fan of hip hop, folks,
it's very easy, especially people who don't know much about
hip hop, it's very easy for them to dismiss the
work or to dismiss what is being explored. And one
of the things that continually is a thread through your collaborations,
through your solo work, through your team ups, is always
(18:35):
this message of telling the truth of economic uplift, of
the things your history textbooks might not have told us
if we were growing up. So I'm setting up some
stuff here. I'm sorry Matt if I'm going a little long.
I'm trying not to fanboy. But one thing when we
were all brainstorming our conversation today one thing that immediately
(18:55):
stood out as we said, well, Michael, what do you
want to talk about? Won't get to hang out? And
the top thing on the list, you said, the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, yeah, okay,
So I'm just gonna I'm gonna read the clip of
the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, I'm not gonna do a voice.
I really want to, but this is serious. So the
(19:15):
thirteenth Amendment says, neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as
a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been
duly convicted, shall exist within the United States deep breath,
or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have
the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, all right, slavery is very much alive A well,
you know, I say, of America.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, can you tell us about the loophole there in
the thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I didn't realize. Andy got I watched if you
guys have not watched doing the dirty work, Andrew Young,
Rachel Maddow, executive produced at John Holtebryant helped put this
thing together. First of all, shouts out that John Hoples
a friendly mentor. Rachel thank you for being a napkin
and an ally. Reverend Al Sharpton Houses event at Clark
last week, Andy Young was there to talk about doing
the dirty work. And doing the dirty work was him
(20:05):
being a negotiator with and foreign at the direction of
doctor King for the SELC partnering with Snick and John Lewis.
Was before John came on to SELC. Andy had a
hell of a run, you know, in terms of having
to do the dirty work while while people were you know,
mobilizing people. I didn't realize that he had gotten in
trouble for essentially saying similar that they were political prisoners
(20:30):
in the United States that had tons of them. Him
and Carter, you know, Carter hand picked him the ambassador.
That was one of the things where Carter's president had said,
God damn it, now, you can't make the country look bad,
so we gotta figure this one out. But Banandi told
the truth, Black people, working class people, and poor people
period are political prisoners more than not in this in
(20:52):
this country because slavery and involuntary servitude shouldn't exist, except
that's a big one. Accept and if you're a poor
white boy in the Lower Appellachian northern Alabama, you're the accept.
You're a poor white boy from Middle Georgia and Florida,
(21:14):
you're the accept. If you're a poor white woman eastern Alabama, Mississippi,
you're the accept because we may need to use your
body for six or seven years, similar to the way
they use the Irish as indentured service. Similar to those ways,
you're the accept. And I said, if you're poor and white, now,
if you're poor and black, you're the accept for the
(21:36):
rest of your fucking life, if we can get you.
I just interviewed a man named ak Bar Pray who
had been a drug distributor in New Jersey. He gets
locked up in nineteen ninety with a lifetime sentence. Now,
other people who have gotten locked up who don't look
like him don't get lifetime sentences. And I asked him,
(21:56):
you know, what do you think you deserve? Or one?
When I calls asks he's ho twenty there's a man
who's responsible enough to say okay. Under the louder the guidelines,
I would have ate twenty years. He was locked up
thirty six years in three months. He was given a
release date April nineteenth. I believe, well, what April up
twenty nineteen, and then right at then they told him, oh,
(22:17):
we made a mistake. Holy sh and I don't know
how to fuck He didn't go kill itself, you know
what I'm saying. But here he is now seventy seven
year old man and his only mission for the rest
of his life is to make sure other boys don't
put themselves in a position and women don't put themselves
in a position to be locked up for the rest
of life. So we do have a system of slavery
in this country. And you know when you have private
prisons thanks to raign that are allowed to proliferate and say, okay,
(22:40):
we're gonna build a private prison in Bubble Funck, Georgia.
Whether they're no jobs, this is gonna guarantee three hundred jobs.
This helps transform it and keep this economy. But we
have to stay eighty four percent in bed capacity. So
how can you guarantee an eighty four percent feel rate
if you don't have a loophole in that make sure
I can feel it, you know. So now petty crimes
(23:03):
become major crimes. Five grams of cocaine crack cocaine, and
he goes five hundred grams five hundred folks. You got
don't know, man, when you start talking about five grams,
isn't even worth two hundred bucks. Five hundred grams as
a half a kilo? Wow? You know? So there is
there is a grand conspiracy to keep slavery alive in
this country because bullshit laws allows this country to lock
(23:28):
up poor and I usually say it hurts us worse
than first black people, but poor people in general are
allowed to be used as free labor, and we should
all be concerned with that because it gives reason to
justify prisons, and especially private prisons. So when you talk
about that prison that our president was clicking his heels
about down in Florida that's surrounded by alligators, the fucked
(23:50):
up part about it is that prison, no matter what
Fox News says, it's going to house a lot of
poor white folks too. It's not poor white folks in Florida, right.
And at the same time, I'm seeing a black girl,
well a young woman on there saying, hey, man, if
you a CEO, will have the credentials to be a COO.
They're starting pay is higher than other places. So sit here.
So now you get a position where facilitily race aside.
(24:14):
Class becomes the issue because as a CEO, that's a
good job. Shit, you in the middle of fucking nowhere, Florida,
You all of a sudden make fifty sixty seventy grand
a fucking year for watching a bunch of poor people
no one gives a fuck about, and put alligators around them.
Even it's gonna be hard not to like capitalism. Then
you know what I'm saying, you won't.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Have shit going on. Hey, I'm from Ice. That much
money I'm getting you for signing up?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, for chasing down people who look like you or
just may be of the same you know, economic status
you are. So it's a time in this country. But
I hope and wish that people in our country start
to understand that not only Thirteenth Amendment classes it's racist.
It gets incentive for us to keep a slave population
in this country. And we don't do it redemptive. We
don't we unlike we used to. At times, we're not
(25:00):
sending in people for prison sentences and bringing out better people,
people who've had a chance to have some psychological diagnoses
and find out what's really going on, People who may
have gotten a chance to learn dis from the structure,
don't get out of enough time that they're young enough
to use it to be They don't have trades programs
in school, they don't even have you know, exercise equipment
(25:22):
and federal presents anymore. So it's a very weird thing
that we're using people's labor, and we use prisons for
cheap labor too, And you know, it's just very weird
to me that in this country, this republic that's so
proud of freedom in our propaganda, that we don't push
for freedom on at home, you know, on this clay.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
It's a suspicious I would say, yeah, I think it's
wuked up too, but it's very suspicious that it's just
kind of there's a there's a pretending, a collective pretending
that we all do like it's not there somehow.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, it's in the South. It's especially fucked up because
we're taught to be polite.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, we're taught to be polite. You know, there's some
things you just don't talk about until the rich Auntes
fucking son go to jail. Then everybody's talking about it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Okay, So I don't know if this is related at all,
but I think it might be at least because of
the history of the place. On the west side of
two eighty five, on the banks of the Chattahoochee River,
there's this huge abandoned lot that was once the Chattahoochie
Break Company.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
My grandfather worked for them.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
What does yeah, what does it represent for you? And
because I think at least back in the day they
used to least labor.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
My grandfather was on the Changang for a while. He
had told me about it that he had told me
in Matterson. When they say slavery, stop and my grandfather's
pirst person says, huh shit, they must not know about
shell cropping and chin Gangsin.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, I fucking chang gang.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
There were when you wi these Georgia State roads, when
you bought from the Chatahooche Break Company other companies, that
was that was forced labor, that the state was leasing
men out to their blood, sweat and tears that earned
all this equity for other people, always money for other people,
but nothing was the prison a pre pension plan. And
even beyond that, when you look at places like Cabbage Town,
(27:04):
there's this huge fucking warehouse using rule Georgians that they
brought up, paying them not in the US treasury bills
but in meal money, and then and then tripling the
price of goods they would only buy from the meal store.
So they don't give a fuck. In case you motherfuckers
don't know, they don't give a fuck about you niggas
or crackers, because the same people made both names. There's
(27:28):
a planner class here. What they call that. We hear
parents grandparents says that means master. It's a nice word
for master. That means there's I don't give a fuck
how much money I have as a rapper. My last
name is not Cox. If your last name is Cox
and fucking Georgia, you're not getting a ticket, Yeah you're not.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
You might get pulled over and apologize.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
And apologized to and GSP, don't apologize to nobody. You
know what I'm saying, George Charlie popping up apologizer. They
pulled me on what time? Said, man, we knew this
is your call. Just call them so cool and let
me the fuck go. I'm sitting there stone as fuck,
like God, damn just close. Don't ever be to be
on the cocks, because the cocks of what's got damn
money probably on the state. Like, we have to realize
(28:11):
that there is a difference and we have to start
looking past our differences to solve the bigger difference. Yeah,
you know, we have to stop. I'm from Comings, I'm
from Athams' man. I'm sure our mother's had about the
same amount of power. The question becomes, when do we
unite that power and just say we can't do this anymore.
We need to change the thirteenth Monument.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
And how would we how how would that collective action work,
especially when so many of the means of communication are controlled.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah. Powerful, but we're gonna have to get back to
those ten or fifteen people in each other's living rooms
and then in your church settings, and then you gets churches,
and I say that this, most people live around people
who look like them, unless they're searching for a diversity
or just everybody so broke the gotta looked at you.
So you know that they are conversations that are going
on in Atlanta, West Atlanta, and conversations going on in commons.
(29:02):
We know those people aren't just going to get together
unless it's at the model of fucking outlets. They're trying
to get in and out of there. But let's have
those conversations. Technology gives us the ability to have those conversations,
but let's filter through organizations we trust, whether it's a
local five oh one, C three or church. Then let's
have these church I remember being young and you'd have
these church meetups, and you know, the Presbyterian churches were
great about it about reaching out to black churches, and
(29:24):
then they'd have these fellow meetups, and shit, we need
to start doing this. So we just have honest dialogue.
And out of that dialogue you have conversation, you create
an understanding. It does not mean agreement, but you at
least have understanding. And through that understanding, I believe you
can start saying, well, what are the things that affect
us both now? Right now, the Supreme Court is about
to make a judgment or hear marijuana and guns. I'm
(29:45):
a big proponent of marijuana and I'm a big proponent
for guns. You should not give up your Second Amendment rights.
With that said, the fucking Court should not force you
to give up your Secondmendment rights because you smoke marijuana.
Forty percent of all gun involved violence and shooting our
alcohol involved. There is no goddamn plan on banning tequila
if you own a three fifty seven mag's just not
(30:07):
This is fucking Georgia. Most shiving guns go together. That
I'm never gonna did a fucking commercial with guns. Shouts
out the gun, shouts out to governor, kill right does
the gun? And I was like, I felt that commercial
dad daughters like you, but he's not gonna call the
band the gun. But in Georgia right now, if you
go to get a Georgia medical license, then you're gonna
have to evoke your well, we don't need him anymore
(30:27):
to have to giving up your concealed carry license. I
don't get I don't think we should make stoners don't
want to kill anyone Supreme courts. Stoners ain't trying to
kill anyone SOLDI as trying to shield the fuck out,
get high, go to sleep. Why you're gonna say what happened?
So when you think of it, though, if I think
of it, if I'm a tyrant and I want to
see Benillavant, you know, I do something that ss banilla
and I keep people laughing on Twitter and ship. But
what's the good way to d arm half the population
(30:49):
if half the population smokes marijuana? You revoked the right
to own a gun by saying because you smoke, Manuaza,
it's your choice.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
It doesn't feel like there's a specific demographic.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Young progressive people were willing to look past writing that's
nistening and say, these are the things we have in common,
like the fred Hampton crowd. And so I think we
as Americans have to get to the point where we
are fred Hampton like. And I thought that we will
sit now, speak, create understanding with and organize with others
who have a common interest, even if they don't look
like us.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And that also involves confronting.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Again.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I keep going back to the show we were sold
in our textbooks, you know, as products of public school.
It goes back to the idea of honestly, unflinchingly confronting
those uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh guys, time to pay some bills. We're gonna hear
some mads. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
One thing we talked about briefly before we started rolling
was I want to go back to your family history. Yeah,
you know, having roots in Alabama. You mentioned that you
of a personal relationship with the Tuskegees.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yes, my grand my great grandfather, Nah Black man his
father or grandfather was using the experiment. I don't think
my family got one hundred bucks in retribution or or
you know, or money's for I think it. I think
my cousin talked about it in some book that I
didn't read. It was like twelve or fifteen bucks. I
don't think it was at That's what you know. My
great grandfather, my great grand mother and father. I knew
(32:25):
my great grandmother died when I was nine years old.
So when I said I kne him, I kne him.
They sent us down, slept in their house. Fucking pick
got eggs from under the chickens, We got water from
the well. Like knew these people. And to know that
these people were related to someone that was using the
experiment that they ended, I don't think ending until seventy two, seventy,
you know, so it was forty years easy. But to
know that, and our farm is only two miles from
(32:47):
the school from Tusky University. To know that I have
that history, to know that on my father's side we're
owned by were owned by the laws by Crawford Longs
family father's side, but yeah, we were owned by them, yep.
So for you know, my father's fucking fair skinned man
with curly hair. So somebody was fucking and those weren't
(33:09):
voluntary fucks. So you know that you're a private the
rape on that side, This country's been an interesting country,
and I'm a patriot. I love this Republican what could
potentially be of it. But with that said, I can
never ignore the fact when I hear dumb motherfuckers talking
about how I didn't experience slavery. It was so long ago,
it was far. My great grandmother's mother was enslaved. She
(33:30):
taught her mother to read, she taught her children to read.
I knew that woman until I was nine, held her hands,
sat on her lap as de mentor robbed of who
she was, and she went from calling me Michael the
Feller and slowly withered away in front of my grandmother's
I knew her, I knew her husband, my great grandfather N. H.
Black Man. The farm they brought with both their names
on the DS is in my phone. I look at
it every single day when I pray and think about
(33:51):
me and my wife and what we're trying to grow.
So I know my parents were both born in apartheid.
Born in nineteen fifty five, nineteen fifty nine. They were
born into a world where they couldn't had their parents
not being people who are highly respected, they could have
not walked in front doors at some of the stores
that I tend today. So it's just like, Man, get
the fuck out of here. I don't I don't want
to hear you know, what was so long agoing? Was
(34:11):
that because these things affect African American steal and.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
It's never really that long ago. I think it's it's
something that you know, it's something that I think a
lot of people in the United States for for else,
a lot of white people honestly prefer not to really
think about.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, it's the politeness. It it's don't it's the same
reason you allow children to be abused in your church
or home. You don't do anything about it because it's
ugly and it's messing and it stinks. But you got
to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Because history is closer than it looks in that.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Man, I want to switch gears for just a second.
What I'm going to read a lyric for you, because
I think it's something that you were and it was
it was a little while ago, and we chose these
carefully by the way it speaks to something that recently
happened in the news, just like a current events thing. Okay,
(35:09):
here he goes, and I'm sitting down doing hard time,
pissing in a metal bowl, eating shit from a lunch line.
In here. Nobody knows you by your name, just another
number living under bitch ass rules of a broken game.
They put me in here to die and left me
angry and alone for the crime of being old. They
threw me in this nursing home.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
What's it? What's all is it?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
It's from South Park?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh, and it's.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
So good, by the way, season twenty one, gotta check
it out. Do you have any thoughts on what happened
or what is happening with South Park with you know,
some of the late night hosts, with the First Amendment,
with what's going on with any of that kind of
control or anything.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I know that our First Amendment rights are constantly under
attack from the government. Yeah, that that's what I know,
that that that they're constantly under attack. And I would
advise people to start thinking past this hurts my feelings,
so it should be banned, and start to think who
(36:16):
am I not allowed to criticize at all?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
That's dangerous, tho, Michael, You.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Got to say, who can I not talk about? And
why can I not talk about it? Why is this
president so so vicious in his attack backs and point aus?
Why can't I criticize him? Why can't I? Why can't
I criticize some groups and not other groups? Why can't I?
Why can't I be vocal and honest about any and everything?
And why do I want others to be silenced and
(36:47):
not me? What I've seen today, the greatest danger is
in if I don't agree with you, I want you silence,
no matter what side you are. You know what I'm saying.
I don't give a fuck what you're saying. I give
a fuck that you have the right to say say it. Yeah,
what you're saying, I don't give a fuck. I got
some shit I'm gonna say after you say that stupid
shit you say. So I'm not bothered by a lot
(37:08):
of the people who don't agree with what I'm saying.
I'm not bothered by what they're saying because my thing
is if Elija Muhammad city years ago, if you take
a glass of water that's dirty, you put it there.
You don't offer people in alternative. They're gonna have to
drink it. They're gonna, well, you need water for substance.
But if I put a clean water right next to it,
and people are gonna be attractive. And so it's simply
(37:30):
my job to put my version of what I think
the best water is out there and in the public
or pubicler be pulled to on the side. But I'm
very worried when people that I see myself an alliance
agreeance with I, you know, philosophically, start to say I
want that other side of silence. Yes, that that that
starts to spook me. Chompsky talks about it. Yeah, to
(37:50):
watch the old man when he talks about it. He
pissed a lot of people off, for this is the truth.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
He doesn't miss it.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, if you don't want, he does it. If you
don't want the same rights that you have for your
most bitter than me, and you don't you don't really
care about those, right.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, we traveled, you know, you've traveled quite a bit.
And one thing that hits us often is, you know,
here in the United States, it can be quite expensive
to ever get out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so
a lot of people don't have the opportunity to know
that the First Amendment right is something that is super fragile,
(38:23):
always under attack. I love the fact that someone as
dumb as me can wake up, have a bad day,
talk some shit, and not get black bags into a van.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Come Eric Nelson, my friend, man who wrote lyrics on Trial,
Wrap on Trial. Read that book, guys, and get more
familiar area. We're going to put some type of cross
country talk together where he he sees how Facebook posts
are getting guys, three four, five, six, seven, eight years Facebook.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Oh yeah, like the Charlie Kirk stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that kind of shit. Like
you know, I'm you know people. I called my daughter
and I said, hey, you know, people want to be
coming to your campus to try to incite you to
get a debate. I said, just ignore it, go to class,
have your talk with your friends, do some organizing. I
don't want you to become political father on someone's page
(39:16):
simply because they want to get you riled up. And
the best way to effectively show someone that I truly
believe in the First Amendment is to simply say, go
go here. This is a black campus. You can talk
all that Charlie kirks you if you want to. We
got classes to go to. Nobody's gonna pay you much attention, Bubba.
We'll see you at the end of the day when
no one's engaged you. I don't have a reason to
fucking engage you. I already know I don't agree with you,
(39:38):
but I already know you don't know what the fuck
you're talking about. You're just saying things to incite people,
and I give you that. You know the stokely Carmichael
called me to her said, you know the powers not
in your ability to call me nigga. Fuck you called
me nigga. The powers in it if you tell me
when nigga, you can't do it and your power is effective.
See nin nigga, you can't vote if I keep walking
to vote, but vote, I don't give a buck with you.
(40:00):
But when you can put state patrol in front of
that boating room and say nigga, you can't vote, oh,
then niggas got to heck up. Then we got to
go to war with you under state patrol because now
you're denying me my right by use of force. Then
the word nigga has has someone wait to it because
you're preventing me through an armor of government. And that's
what people. Don't stop giving your power to government. Be uncomfortable.
(40:22):
Just go ahead and be fucking uncomfortable because I'm in
the UK. I'm stolen as a motherfucker, and I know
to shut the fuck up because they have hate speech
laws there, and I'm like, yeah, I'm an American. I
don't give a fuck about the monarchy, you hate speech laws.
I don't give you know what I like. I like
your breakfast because my grandfather ate beans and fucking blood
(40:44):
putting from breakfast too. But yeah, you guys ain't got
it fucking right. That's why we fucking left, you know
what I mean? In Americans need to realize that, like,
don't become your fucking parents.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, yeah, you fuck out, Bubba. We have to that
sometimes on the show too, where I think we pulled
it back a little bit over the years, where we
would say, you know, we have a lot of British friends,
we love everybody. Yeah, but also you guys know you're
a tribal system and on archipelago.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Right, it's very strange.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
It's weird, like what are your qualifications for being the king?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
It's also weird how yes, yes, yeah, Like like Michael
Jackson touched princes down in Prinsident and the old boy
husband ever got mad, right, I might should have fucked her,
Like the fuck you mean?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I can't? Bits got too laughs too arms, just like me.
I'm Michael fucking Jackson. I mean, I'm very serious in that,
Like we don't understand and what I'm saying. We are
talking to.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Oh also Dylan Ramsey, we're keeping it.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah yeah, keeping that hard. That's all wrong, okay. But
as Americans, both both privileged and unprivileged, both have and
have nots, we are freer in in theory in terms
of this republic on paper that any other society on earth.
You are wealthy with those freedoms, use them before you
before you voluntarily give them away. You know, I remember
(42:14):
telling after the American said, before you jump on the
no gun ship, you show you're probably on farm. You shooting,
go shooting me a little bit.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Don't see a place where you can't do that.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, you fucking get you get killed
for three grands of marijuana. Jeff sentenced for three grands
of fucking weed, Like what the fuck? Like, you gotta
think about this ship man, ship's fucked up out here. Man,
you got those beautiful bodies for my wife For the time,
I said, what the fuck do you want to go
to Bolly for? So the we don't do. We're gonna
(42:47):
meditate with Russell Simmons. There's no weed there, I said,
we can go to fucking Destined and get house fucking
koba weed be out the deck stays smoking the rest
of the weed. Yeahn't because give it back to you. Yeah,
it's like, yeah, party, you don't have enough, like yeah,
fucking Destined Like it's like, bro, you We truly have
an amazing country. We have an amazing country if you
(43:11):
drive from coast to coast in terms of what it
looks like, the different geography you gotta see, we got
an amazing country in the terms of the things you
can see in people, you can experience, the place you
can experience from the houses of the hot coast. We
have an amazing country. Take some time to if you
can't get out the country, to get around the country.
Take some time to converse with people who don't look
(43:31):
like you. You know who don't I have a friend.
Man's names Mike Man oh Gi, Mike and Ohio. I
met Mike on a plane coming from the on coming
from one of the car auctions man, and we just
have become buddies. He's a great old man and that's
time we talk. He said, I don't imagine you have
the same political abuse house, Like you'd be fucking surprised
on the guns Mike, like he owns millions of dollars
in fucking old muscle cars and shit, and find lf
(43:53):
like how the buck did you get rich? Like I
know how I got Negro rich service, how you're fucking rich?
And you were overalls? And he's like I was in college.
I wasn't very much interested. So I started drawing out
some stuff out of improved farm equipment, almost like this
large farm equipment company. She's rich and shit. I've grown
as a human from knowing him because we have a
(44:14):
common interest in old cars. But he has so much
wisdom and energy to give and poor to me. This
kid that he doesn't even know which way I vote,
but he doesn't give a fuck. He just cares that
I get to enjoy the American dream. He loved the
fact that I'm a father and a dad and that
I'm respectful. I love the fact that he breaks every
old white man stereotype, you know, beyond like he dresses
(44:35):
like an old white guy, looks like an old white guy.
You know what I'm saying. I might be the only
rapper he listens to, but you walk in fucking his garage.
He has, fucking man, it's got like half a million
dollars and whiskeys from across the world. I'm just like,
he's one of the most renaissance man I've ever met.
Yet he just looks like any guy walking out of
the appellation with a bottle of shine. And if we
don't start to value that about him ourselves, James Balbin
(44:57):
talk about is having to come to a recording because
ain't going to pick up and move back to Africa.
Whites ain't definitely ain't feel I know, the Scott's and
Irish ain't going back. They're like, fuck that we worked
hard in the first seven years. Bee, we're here. If
we don't take some time to re establish who we
are as individuals. What makes you feel good? Your family,
your communities. But realize that America's like these quills said
my great grandmother used to make. My great grandmother would
(45:18):
have us in the summers, come down and bring your
old clothes. So you brought your old blue jeans, your
old sweaters and stuff. And then she would just take
the next few days. She just cut all the shit
up in the squares, triangles, whatever, and then she starts sewing.
And by the time we were leaving or people were
leaving my grandmother's house, everyone we have a blanket. But
your blanket wasn't just your shit. It was your cousin's patchwork.
(45:41):
It was your patch it was other cousin, you know
what I mean. And we still have these blankets. My
sisters and now another family member still have these. That's
what this country is. We're not a big bowl of
suit where everybody kind of dissipates with the boiling water
boils down who you are. We're not that, you know.
We're not a salad where people can just kind of
pick out the parts they don't like and don't like,
and you know, you just eat the parts of Like us,
(46:02):
we are quilt. Some parts there that quilts going to
be dinom so she put a softer thing on the
other side. Some parts of the piece are going to
be a piece of your polo shirt that was your favorite,
your mom hated it, you know what I mean, There's
going to be parts of your fucking dad's old playboys
shirt on their and shit. But if it really is
a connector all I've wanted to be, what's a thread
that kept that connection going? Because as much in as
(46:24):
many differences as we have in this country, there's some
things that make us uniquely American that are so beautiful.
Bautist Republic, we have not truly exercised him our First
Amendment rights to one of them. These guys are some
assholes sometimes, but I watch to kind of kill time
the First Amendment auditors. The auditors, come on, come on,
all right, those these guys that go out on the
(46:44):
fucking curve and they just fucking start filming shit. Yeah,
Oh they're ballsy motherfuckers.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Man.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
They film banks, they film hospitals, they go to police
stations to film because it's legal. Your First Amendment rights
gives you the right the symbol freedom of religiend, freedom
of press, and freedom of spirit, truth gathering school, noized government.
So you can sit down on the sidewalk, you can
film all day. Cops come hey, you know what I'm telling
what you're doing? No, because it's your first Amendment right
not to Well, all right, let me see you I
(47:13):
D No. If you can't articulate reasonable suspicion or an
actual crime I've done, I'm not required to give you
a D. This is the best way to teach the Amendments.
I'm like, why doesn't this happen in schools? Why the
fuck could man to read? The way I learned civics
was Miss Ellison, who was a fucking tyrant. She was
(47:33):
a shape like a little bowling ball. She had a
fucking three stooges haircut like fucking Larry you know, whichever
one's going to have, and she had a peg leg.
It was impossible not to laugh, right, Why dare you
do it? This motherfuck was? My mother had her at
fifteen while pregnant with me. Oh wow, she told my mother,
(47:55):
and my mother laughed at her. Okay, okay, we'll see
you again. My mother had to take the Sibby's class
back over as a singer.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
When my mother found out I had Miss Ellison's the
civic teacher, she told me, you shut the fuck up. Yeah,
and you sit at the front of the class and
you don't say a fucking word. What the fuck are
you talking about. I'm like this, CI, I have an
understanding of what I mean. Miss Elison said, what's your name?
I said, her name is Michael. She says, Michael. What
(48:24):
said Michael? Render? My mother's main last name was Cluntz.
She said, I no, no, what's your mother's name? I said,
her mother's name is Denise Denise? What I said, her
name is Denise Smith? What was her name when she
went here? I said, what name is u? Zella? Zella class? Oh?
Go ask your mama about me? Wow, somewhere home as
my mom els exactly crazy, brother, And she's like, you
(48:48):
shut the fuck up. You said the funning class, You
shut the fuck I came the next day and Miss
Elton I said, it's back calling out home and she
went in to see me. Shut the fuck up. Miss
Ellison said, Michael. I said, yes, ma'am. She says, and
it's the class not quiet. She says, did you talk
(49:08):
to your mother? I said, yes, ma'am. What she tell you?
She told me to sit at the front of the
class and to shut up. She said, well, there's a
spot for you here. I walked my ass up, sat
next to Shari read so me and Shari Read. I
was just like, God, damn, this bitch got a target
on my back. Brother. And for the rest of that semester,
(49:33):
that woman taught me why to love America in terms
of how principle it could be because she was a tyrant.
She was a tyrant. I knew I deserved that a
in that class. I knew Shari Read was reading off
my fucking paper. That lady gave me a B plus.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
Shit it on me, but do you feel it?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
But I understood her wanting me to understand the Bill
of Rights, the Amendments, what this republic promise, and the
way she exercise that when she showed me what titalitarianism
was because in her classroom she was an absolute dictator.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Not a democracy.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
It was not a democracy in that class. And it
made me love the potential of what this could be.
And she tested. She bring me up in front of
class explain to these other people what that means because
she knew I had to understand. She knew I got it,
but she didn't give me a break me in. At
the end she said, what do you think you deserved?
I said, I deserve eight Yeah, yeah, I should have
said hey. Plus she brought me down to ay. That
(50:28):
brought me down to be plus I was mad, I
was dyslectric, so my writing might have been fucked up.
But she that conditioning, you know, along with later reading
Chomskin things like that, really conditioned me to love the potential.
But what we are has to be maintained. It's not
something that's static and just we can just accept it is.
(50:49):
It has to be the line has to be pushed
on a constant and consistent basis.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Democracy is like any other muscle. If you don't use.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
It, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
And hold the phone, don't run the jewels just yet, Dylan,
we get a sound effect, all right, that's perfect. We've
had such an amazing exploration here that we're actually making
this a two part interview and through the magic of editing, Matt,
you and I don't know exactly where this part of
(51:20):
the interview stops.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
We have no idea. Oh we're sitting here with baited
breath just like you. Is there going to be more?
They say there's gonna be more. I hope there's more.
We talked a lot more.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
We sure did, and we would love to hear from
you folks, so please tune in to part two of
our interview on conversation with none other than the legendary
Killer Mike. In the meantime, we'd love to hear your thoughts,
so you can find us online Conspiracy Stuff, Conspiracy Stuff
show anywhere there's an at sign something like that, I'll
(51:51):
get you there. You can also call us on the phone.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Our number is one eight three three std wy TK
Oh my ai God. We haven't been able to do
that in a while. Thank you, Ben. That's our phone number.
You can call it. It's a voicemail system. When you
call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let us
know if we can use your name and message on
the air. If you'd like to instead send us an email,
(52:15):
you can.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
We are the entities the red piece of correspondence we received.
Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back,
what do we mean? There's one way to find out.
Join us here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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