May 10, 2019 • 51 mins
Over the years, people have described Wikileaks founder Julian Assange as everything from a hero to a villain -- and, in recent years, a captive. From 2012 to April of 2019, Assange lived in the Ecuadorian Embassy of London, unable to leave the grounds for fear of instant arrest and possible extradition to the United States. This April he was removed from the embassy. So what happened? More importantly, what happens next?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back
(00:24):
to the show. My name is Matt, my name is
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you
are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. An update episode, We're
going topical. You are We're working with live fire. Uh
(00:45):
this peek behind the current. We typically record where endeavored
to record a few weeks in advance of publication date,
mainly because stories can change pretty rapidly in these modern
times of ours, and this episode as a result of that.
This episode may include information that becomes outdated or needs
(01:08):
an update. But for right now, we're going to We're
gonna give you the straight pop, as they probably say
somewhere in Minnesota on and unfolding events. Does anybody else
remember when wiki leaks was a daily headline. Didn't matter
where you turned, everything was Wiki leaks, right yeah, and
especially it had a bit of a resurgence there for
(01:29):
a while when the presidential election was happening in when
that that name started being bandied about again. But it
goes way back to ten roughly when it was very
very popular, right right, And it was around even before then.
It was founded in Iceland in two thousand six. And
despite the fact that you don't we hear about it
(01:51):
as much as you did, it's still soldiering along. Today's
story is not about wiki leaks. However, you want to
learn about wiki leaks, you can go look at their
own website which is still up. Uh, and we do
have an old series of videos on it, that's right,
which gets the gist of what it is, you know,
(02:13):
but not not the recent greatest hits. Instead, today we
are exploring the recent misadventures of wiki leaks founder, the
infamous and somewhat targary in looking Julian Assange. Oh, he
is a little target. I don't want to body shame.
I think I think targarians look really cool, but he
looks like one. It's more like the kind of like
platinum blonde, blue eyed kind of vibe. Right, A little
(02:37):
bit of it. It's changed, it's changed significantly. Yeah, being
grounded for years will do that. But Julian Assange, this
name is familiar to us. If you're listening to this show,
you have it is almost certainly not the first time
you've heard this name. But let's learn a little bit
about the guy behind the moniker. Who is Julie Nossange. Well,
(03:01):
for that, we have to go all the way back
to nineteen seventy one to a place called Townsville, Australia.
Isn't that where Chemical X was created and then created
the power Puff Girls? Oh my goodness, the mayor of
Townsville doesn't bring any bells because of my lack of
power Puff information, I will say, yes, okay, and I
appreciate you taking my word for it, but this is
(03:23):
a different Townsville. Well, he's carrying in Townsville. In nineteen
seventy one, Julian Assange was birthed as a baby. He
came into this world and he didn't have any documents
with him, but he was given his first documents very
soon after that, proving that he was in fact born.
Uh and uh. This is a gentleman who grew up.
He really enjoyed computers. He was good at them. He
(03:44):
ended up hacking into the databases of several organizations that
we would consider high profile sure corporations, countries, governments. In
two thousand and six, he said, you know, I should
take this to a global scale and international skill. I
should take what I'm doing by myself and open it
(04:05):
to the world. So he began work on what we
call wiki leaks today, and surprisingly he pulled it off.
He enjoyed a brief and shining moment in the spotlight.
Was he a hero speaking truth to power, a coward
and dangering lives across the planet, a straight up megalomaniac.
He was portrayed as all of these and more in
the media, and he earned the coveted Time Magazines Person
(04:28):
of the Year title in twenty Also, let's not forget
that person of the Year. It isn't necessarily an accolade.
It's not a compliment. It just means you shook some
stuff up for better or worse. Well, yeah, and and
that's exactly what he was doing. He you know that
speaking truth to power. I don't know if I necessarily
believe that, but I think all of us had moments
(04:49):
where the actions of Julian Assange were so striking. Um
of you know, hacking into the places that were hacked
or you know, leaking information that was given to the
that really spoke to bad things that were happening within
big organizations. And you know, I think that's why Time
did just what we're talking about. That's why Time did it,
(05:10):
because it was so earth shaking for sure, I mean
genuinely shook the foundations. Yeah, and he was loved and feared.
I think it is the right way to put it right, right,
he was. Indeed. The thing is that Wiki Leaks and
Assange were dogged by criticism, controversy, and conspiracy theories pretty
(05:33):
much since their inception. People would write to us all
these years ago and say, well, who do you think
is really in charge of wiki leaks in Russia? Is
it the c i A, Is it you know, MASSAD
or some other organization? And how impartial are they? Not
very as we would come to find. But two thousand
(05:54):
ten rose and fell like some Tigeria Nichorus. I guess
he flew too close to the sun of the mass
media and classified information from governments and businesses. Is the
year everything started to go wrong for Julian Assange. He
ended up seeking asylum in Ecuador, technically in Ecuador. Uh,
(06:17):
here's how it went down. We've got a timeline. I
guess we could call it how to dodge the law
in Ecuador with an asterisk. Yeah. I don't think he's
actually been to the country of Ecuador. Well, it did, technically,
it's been to the territory, sort of like being at
the airport in Paris or something like that. Have you
really been to Paris? You know? Well, well, okay, So
(06:39):
here's what I've what I believe is that everything surrounding
this situation is about motivation. Uh, motivation behind actions by
the US government, motivations of actions behind Julian Assange or whatever.
Absolutely well, yes, and also of Chelsea Manning government, exactly
(07:02):
all of them together. Like it's about the intentions and
why they're doing what they're doing. Right. So, let's so
in a April of two thousand ten, that is when
Chelsea Manning, uh, well, by this time, Chelsea Manning has
given video and information about an air strike that occurred
in two thousand seven, two wiki leaks, and in this
(07:24):
air strike there were more than ten Iraqis like civilians
and two journalists that were killed in these air strikes.
You I cannot remember the name of War, the War Tapes,
or something to this effect. You can find it through
wiki leaks. It was really brutal and there was a
(07:45):
ton of um press about this when it came out.
It was very high profile in that regard. Then in May,
Chelsea Manning, the person who leaked this stuff too Wiki leaks,
who then leaked it was arrested for doing that, for
for leaking it to wikiliks. And in August of that year,
trouble was brewing across the Atlantic. Prosecutors from Sweden ordered
(08:10):
the arrest of Julian Assange on suspected charges of sexual assault,
rape and molestation. Yes, and this is where the intentions
come into play, because you're seeing information on both are
from both sides here that in particularly from Wikiliks and
Julian Osange. They like this was an attempt to extradite
(08:34):
Julian Assange to the United States, right, get him into
get him back to a place or to a place
that would extradite him to the United States. Right, and
prosecutors in Sweden issue an international warrant for his arrest. December,
he gets arrested by the British police and the court says,
(08:56):
you know what, we're going to grant him bail and
he fights this charge. He is trying to overturn his
extradition to Sweden. It doesn't work. It's this missed in
November of twenty eleven and in twelve August of twenty twelve,
so he's got some months on the lamb. Here August,
he is officially granted asylum at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.
(09:19):
That's why we're making a big to do about calling
it technically Ecuador, because the land of the embassy is
technically sovereign soil. But it's a building. It's a building.
It's sort of like when the Communion way for just
transubstantiated into like the body of Christ or whatever. It's
like one of those guys is magical thinking, magical realism.
I think a lot of international affairs hinge on magical realism.
(09:41):
You know. Uh, like passports, that's a big thing. There's
one person who doesn't have to have a passport. It's
the Queen of the UK because the passport issued in
her name. Well, yeah, there you go, and then she's
got the tier or the crown or whatever the thing is.
It's a very big deal in over there. Um. So,
(10:03):
so in November of that year, this highly publicized event
occurs where Julian Assange uh comes like he's at the
embassy and he goes out on this balcony and he
makes a speech there about what he's doing, why he's
doing it, what the US government wants to do. Um
makes all of these things public and puts it in
his own voice and has some stunning uh, some stunning
(10:27):
hot takes on Crocodile dundee, both the first one and
the sequel. There you go, that's what they don't want
you to know. Highly important stuff. But it was his
for it was the first time anyone had got or
at least the public had seen him since he was
seeking asylum two months earlier, back in back in August.
And again like just remember that timeline two thousand ten
is when it's that arrest warrant is first issued. Two
(10:49):
years later, he gets to the bail and then ends
up in the embassy. Yeah, and he has been there, right,
this is becoming his home, the Stockholm District Court in
while he's still at the embassy. Remember, life's going on
for everyone else doing some skyping. Yeah, he's stuck in
this building. Uh, they decided that he should remain detained
(11:12):
after he requested that they review his detention order, and
then in August he promised he would leave the embassy soon.
Soon is a relative term, right, yes, it really really is. Uh,
then what happens in well, in the Ecuadorian government cuts
(11:32):
off his internet access. I had to have been a
death blow for a guy like that build his whole
life reputation online. He's got nothing, he's cut off. But yeah,
well it's because Wiki League's published her emails. Remember her emails? Yeah, yeah,
(11:53):
an absolute motherload of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign emails. The
government said is it's trying to make sure he can't
interfere in the affairs of other countries. Fair, right, I
think it's fair. We're Ecuador, we're doing you a solid,
and world superpowers are really coming down hard on us.
(12:13):
Can you stop making things worse so you're making us
look really bad? Julie as it's like if you're ever,
if you know, I don't know how wild everyone's lives are,
but it's like if you are, you know, in your
college days and you're getting a dive bar fight, and
then it's all because one of your friends is a
run in their mouths, and you are somehow single handedly uh,
(12:37):
defending yourself from like and him from like eight people
way bigger than you, and the guys in the back going. Yeah,
kick kick his ass, tell his tell his his mom
is also ugly, and you're like, dude, either help me
out or shut up, and he's not doing either of
those things. So it's without choosing a side, and without
us actually being in the room, we can say at
(13:00):
this on the surface seems like poor house guest behavior. Yeah.
It's also like if a guy staying on your couch
just starts peeing on everything. Yes, yes, I mean, and
we'll see it again because it's it. He's just not
that great of a tenant, because if anything, he gets
more erratic and peeing on everything isn't necessarily that far
(13:20):
off the markt right exactly. In uh November of UH
he is questioned again within the embassy is not leaving
the embassy. He has questioned over those sexual assault charges
in Sweden, and in April of Attorney General Jeff Sessions
(13:41):
at the time, who proceeded Attorney General Barr, says that
arresting Assange is a top priority for the US. We
want this guy under the jail. Is he going to
get get mode? I don't know. And it's unfortunate that
we live in a world where that can be a verb.
Nobody wants to get get mode. No one wants to
get get mode. But then only a month later, only
(14:02):
a month later, Sweden comes out and they're saying we're
dropping all charges against Julian A songe. Uh, that's done.
We're not gonna do this whole extradition thing that he's
worried about. Have no fear. We're dropping those charges um.
And Julian Song says, well, that's great, but I'm gonna
stay here just in case, right right, because although Swedeness
(14:24):
dropped the charges, uh, the UK still has an arrest
out for him. And he's like, all right, well, we
got Sweden off the list. Let's let me see if
I can work something out with the United Kingdom. This
is unsuccessful. February he loses his bid to get them
to drop uh, drop their arrests and charges. And then
(14:47):
in March. Oh, it's like history is repeating itself. Right,
I could work cuts off his communication entirely, say look,
you just cannot send messages at all. We tried to
stop you with the internet stuff. No no more, no
snail mail, no nothing, because you are again, dude, you
are making the bar fight worse. You are peeing on
(15:09):
our geopolitical couch. Stop. We're gonna need you to surrender
your pager as well, because not even that's too much. Well, yeah,
because he said, uh, he was sending again sending messages
they would interfere with other countries goings on. That's what
they call in the South, poking the bear. Yeah, exactly,
need to leave that bear alone, especially when you're in
(15:31):
our house, and because the bear is gonna come for us.
The bears do not discriminate, you know. And October Assange
decides to sue Ecuador because he doesn't like how they've
changed the nature of his asylum. They had they had
recently asked him to start, you know, paying rent, kicking
(15:54):
in rent and bills, and to take better care of
his cat. That is not made up. Apparently he was
letting the cat run wild. Is I guess he was
above doing kitty litter. I don't know. They let him
have a cat. They let him have a cat. What
did he have on these these poor SAPs? By the way,
I mean what, maybe we're gonna get there, but why
(16:15):
why did they why did they put up with all
of this? Well, I mean they thought they were defending journalism,
that's the stated claim. Yeah, is it really worth the
Ecuador at this point? Good lord, that's the question Ecuador
is asking. What did they decide to do? Will tell
you after a word from our sponsor, we're back. We're
(16:41):
in legal limbo. Ecuador has a problem on their hands,
and the rest of the world is champing at the
bit to get that problem off of their hands. And
this situation, as strange as it might appear, is unfortunately
not unique. We have to remember that Edwards Snowdon, when
last we checked, still side somewhere in Russia and will
(17:02):
probably not return to the US within his lifetime. And
there is a real legal and otherwise threat to anyone
who leaks, especially highly classified documents from a you know,
let's say a giant military, one of the biggest, oh wait,
the biggest, most powerful military in the world. It's uh
that you put yourself in danger and escaping trying to
(17:26):
get somewhere else where you're away from the reach of
that military and or other parties involved. It's what's going
to happen. You know, we should probably try to interview
Snowdon and Assange. What do you guys think do you
think they would they wouldn't talk to us. Well, I
know Snowdon did uh interview recently in April. He did
(17:48):
an interview on Vice, so we can talk to him.
I've seen that one. Yeah, yeah, let's ull. Hey, hey,
Paul put out some feelers. Okay, wow, cold blooded my friend.
It just Paul's got a lot to do, so he's
doing it right now. I see him. He's he's texting,
she's he's got But now it's just going straight to Ecuador.
(18:14):
So yeah, they're in this legal limbo and we have
to start seriously asking ourselves how long will this house
of cards remain remains stable? Was Julian Assange set to
live out the rest of his life within the bounds
of the Ecuadorian embassy? And remember there were police waiting
for years just for him to cross the threshold. It
(18:36):
was serious. Despite all these overtures and threats and demands
from the UK, the U, S, and Sweden, it seemed
that the countries who wanted him on trial or arrested
or dead still respected going back to that magical thinking point.
International norms too much to storm the embassy and physically
remove Asange because it would be an act of war.
(18:57):
It would be a bad look. So his life and
freedom were in Ecuador's hands and this April that support disappeared.
Here's where it gets crazy. On December sixen uh Barry Pollock,
who is an attorney for Mr Sane, he said that
his client will not be accepting a deal that was
(19:18):
at least the talks were happening right then between the
UK and Ecuador to allow Juliana Sane to be released
from the embassy and go about his business. Uh It
talks broke down. The agreement was rejected over fears that
it could be used as some kind of pretext. At
least these are fears on the behalf of Mr Sane
and his attorney that the agreement itself would be just
(19:39):
a pretext, basically a way to extradite him back to
the United States because again he's in the middle. He's
in the middle of London. He's in London, and yeah,
an Ecuador in the UK that their deal hinged on
uh one solid agreement. Ecuador said, well, whatever he's done,
right or wrong, be it as it, we do not
(20:00):
support the death penalty, so we cannot agree to put
him in your hands unless you can promise us that
no matter what happens, he doesn't die, which it was
clearly not enough. That is like a gentleman's agreement though,
like I mean, what what they demand some kind of
written like affidavit that I mean, once you hand him over.
(20:20):
It is kind of like all bets are offering. Possession
is nine tenths of the law habeas corpus and so on.
The problem is that it was it was pretty much
a handshake agreement. They may have had. I'm sure they
had documentation of it, but they no one made a
law that's just for this one guy and his team.
One of one of his lawyers said that the suggestion
(20:44):
that as long as the death penalty is off the table,
Mr Sane need not fear persecution is obviously wrong because,
as we know, their fates worse than death and arguably
being imprisoned for the rest of your life, whether in
a legitimate prison or a more dodgy place like Guantanamo Bay. Uh,
that's not a life a lot of people want to live. No,
(21:08):
not at all. So then let's go to this year
February twenty nineteen, Australia comes out and they say, hey, guys,
I want to just want everyone to know here, Julia
Sane in fact has a valid passport. It's working. He
could use that passport to return to Townsville, good old
power Puff Townsville, Australia. Um, he could go there right
(21:32):
now if we wanted to send him that way. In
the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the or
de Fat fat that's a street name. Uh. They they
went ahead and said, yes, we're confirming here that a
passport has been approved for for Mr Songe by the government.
And this passport was filed filed four by Mr san
(21:55):
So they said, whatever is happening if he makes it here,
we're just saying he could. We're just say we could
let him in. So he does have a passport. And
again passports are requisite for people who were the highest
and the lowest technically on paper. Everyone has to have
a passport and go through customs. And I still find
it's so incredible how like a document can have such power,
(22:17):
you know what I mean. It's like he's got a passport,
he's good to go. Yeah, yeah, I still get I
don't know what about you guys, but I still get
creeped out when I travel internationally because customs can vary widely.
The first time I always in England, Um, I had
to stop at customs because it wasn't enough that I said, yeah,
I have a hotel and going to They were like,
(22:38):
all right, we need the address and we need to
confirm that that's where you're going to be. The guy
was cool about it. He even called me squire, which
was just profoundly endearing. And passports are essentially a way
to restrict several things. They are a way to restrict
uh immigration of people that a country finds und desirable,
(23:00):
and that could be anything from intelligence agencies to poor people. Right.
They also function is a way for a country to
protect its sovereignty at its borders. Um. And they also
function as symbolic statements for how they feel about other countries.
You know what I mean. It's actually it's surprisingly affordable
(23:21):
to buy a passport from a like somewhat sketchy country
and still travel with it. Yes, have you done that? Well,
that's certainly like the whole go bag situation. Right, Like
if you're trying to escape or you're on the lamb
and you get some shady person who provides the service
to help you out. They either forge a passport. I
think more often than not they will buy a passport
(23:43):
from one of these countries where it's a little more
easy to come by, Is that right, man, Yeah, yeah,
you can. You can buy uh second passport from various places.
The thing is you have to you have to think
about how much how much it will cost you versus
how effective the passport will be, how you know how
(24:04):
widely accepted it is. For instance, you can get a
very expensive passport or minimum investment kind of loophole uh
In in Turkey, for instance, it's it's million dollars give
us you invest a million dollars in a country, Boom
your Turkish congratulations, help yourself to some cuisine and of
(24:27):
our delights, and some of those prices go down to
a hundred thousand dollars or even lower. But Julian Osange
had his own legitimate Australian passport, non Ecuadorian citizen, and
his Australian passport is no guarantee that he would automatically
get accepted because any transit country he went to could
(24:50):
stop him at any point and uh hand him over.
So Wiki Leaks got word of ill tidings in April
of nineteen, and they tweeted on the fifth that a
level source within the Ecuadorian state had told them Assange
would be expelled from the embassy within days or hours. Wow. Yeah,
that changes things a little bit. It's not great news
(25:10):
to hear, you know, especially if he's reading his tweets. No,
his his communications are cut off. I think it's been
reinstanted at that point. I'm not sure. I was hoping
that I could imagine him in a carrier pigeon like
getting along and it just living in the embassy with
his cat. That would be a fun relationship. Yeah, that
would be are you are you pitching a show now? Yeah,
(25:32):
that would be a fun relationship. Who can we get
to Gilbert Godfrey played the cat or is he more
of the pigeon? Yeah, he's the bird. He's good. Yeah.
It's weird because shortly thereafter, another Ecuadorian official came forward
and said there was no decision made to remove him
(25:53):
from the London building, and then on April eleven, they
did just that. Yep, that is correct. On the eleventh
of April of this year, twenty nineteen, Mr Assange gets
arrested at London's Ecuadorian embassy by Metropolitan Police officers for quote,
failing to surrender to the court. Um, can we get
(26:18):
a quick clip of this pretty monumental encounter. It'll be brief.
There you going, and you should be able to hear
him saying resist and things along that line. Because we
(26:40):
are an audio podcast, we we would like to draw
your attention to Osange's appearance as as he got pulled out,
as we said at the top of the show, the
years in the embassy and not been kind to him.
He looks in general kind of disheveled, feel emaciated, too long,
kind of weird, stringy hair, ratty beard. Yeah, and he
(27:01):
can't blame him because he's living under tremendous stress, right,
And that's one thing that was kind of irritated. Get
the comedy of it, but so many people spend time
just busting on the guy's appearance and roasting him when
it's like, hey, there's also a precedent should we arrest journalists?
Is he a journalist or is he just like a
spy master? You know? And people were like, ha ha, yeah,
(27:25):
but look a look at his beard though, what's up
with his cat? I don't know why is he skateboarding
in the halls? That was a thing. Yes, he was
a bad boy. Uh So what were these international violations?
Were they violations of existing laws that he was continuing
(27:47):
to uh engage in? Or were they violations of again
kind of this gentleman's agreement with the Ecuadorian embassy. We
know that Wiki Leaks pulled a no you move and
they said, actually Ecuador's acting illegally because they terminated his
asylum in violation of international law. Burned right, Okay, you
(28:09):
guys really bad got into that one. Uh So, the
entire time this is happening, there is a looming figure
on the horizon, a figure just over so tall that
you can see them over the Atlantic Ocean. Silhouette Godzilla
with a top hat. It's kind of a Mr Pan.
(28:30):
It's Uncle Sam, who who we go toe to toe
with Godzilla and Mr Peanut. You know, although I feel
like Uncle Sam and Mr Peanut would get along, I
think they would get along. Yeah, we think that. I
think so old Uncle Sam is. He's a straddling too
giant US aircraft carriers one ft on each, and he's
(28:53):
just surfing across the ocean towards a song. That America
song from the South Park Guys film is playing America,
the one, you know, the one, So the US is there.
They want a piece. They say, now it's the time
(29:14):
to act. So they file a charge against Julian O.
Sane and they say this guy, we charge him with
computer hacking hours after he's arrested in London. Uh, following
first they asked, They're like, oh, hey, al right, guys,
chop chop, uh tut tally hoo, whatever you say, get
this guy to us. And then also we're charging him
(29:36):
with computer hacking. And then they they drilled down into
it so specifically they're charging him for agreeing to break
a password to a classified government computer. I love the
full name of the charge. It's it's the most dry,
toast kind of like charge you can have you ever
heard of. It's conspiracy to make computer intrusion for agreeing
(29:57):
to break a password to a classified US government computer.
Wolf poetry sounds dangerous. So if he gets convicted of this,
then he would serve five years in prison, assuming that
he was not disappeared, which is a possibility. And they
say that the password was sought by Chelsea Manning. And
(30:18):
Chelsea Manning is a former Army intelligence officer, I'm sure
we're all familiar with her, who provided a sage with
a trove of these documents that Wiki Leaks published in.
According to the indictment, the one with the very sexy
charge name, uh, this constitutes one of the largest compromises
of classified information in the history of the United States. Embarrassing,
(30:43):
that's what Uncle Sam said he did. He did, he did,
say how embarrassing, and then he shot gun to bud
light and then climbed back on a Clydesdale and wrote
off into the sunsets and then that can you do
the first part of that song to get America? So
(31:04):
I love that. I don't know why I also taking
with that, but yes, So they say that he was
breaking the morays of journalism. He was not being a
traditional journalist when he agreed to help Manning crack the
password that let her access this stuff. But mores are
not enforceable by law, my friend, are they just sort
(31:24):
of bad form? Who makes the law? Well? Yeah, right,
But they said he broke the laws it's if you're
a Glenn Greenwald or another journalist, it's okay to verify
and put out stuff that people have given you, but
it's not okay for you to help them steal it. There.
That's that's when you're crossing the line and doing something
completely different than journalism. That that more is a conspiracy
(31:46):
or aiding and abetting a felony. Right, I think you're right, Yeah,
it is technically conspiracy, isn't it. So here we are,
we're twenty nine, were present day, were very were very
close to president right now, right now, Okay, we're in
the moment, guys, I'm here. What the heck is gonna happen?
He's re arrested. What happens next? We'll find out after
a quick word from our sponsor. Not guilty, y'all got
(32:14):
to feel me. A Sannge pleads not guilty at the
Westminster Magistrate's Court. But he's convicted of failing to surrender
to police on June twenty nine, two thousand twelve, when
they originally came after him. And then he will he
will be sentenced. Uh. He was sentenced in Crown Court,
where more serious crimes are heard, and then he'll also
face extradition. Hearings one on my second one on June twelve.
(32:38):
His lawyers are livid. They're unhappy with this. They say
this is a sign of terrible global trend. Yeah. Um.
A Sane's attorney, Jennifer Robinson, who's based in London, was
quoted in saying that the arrest quote sets a dangerous
precedent for all media organizations and journalists. She goes on,
(33:02):
since we've warned that Julian Assange would face extradition to
the US for his publishing activities with Wiki leaks. Unfortunately
today we've been proven right. And then she added that
after having just spoken to a Sange Um that his
message to the world was I told you so wow,
(33:22):
Oh the most endearing of messages. So endearing. It's okay,
It's okay because really, honestly, they did kind of or
they kind of knew this, and Julian Osange was warning
for a long period of time, like they're coming for me.
This is happening. Here's why. Let me give you a list,
this is what's going to happen. But you know it
did take what almost seven years? Yeah, and normally I
(33:48):
think we can all agree that I told you so
is just a super unhelpful thing to say in any
personal situation. But we should give him a pass on
this one because he did exactly what you're describing, Matt.
He did tell us so, he said so. So It's
true Wiki Leaks knew this was coming, and probably knew
for a long long time. The group had repeatedly claimed
(34:08):
that the Department of Justice in the US was building
a criminal case centered on the leaking of those emails
hacked apparently by the Russians in the twenty sixteen campaign.
And in February of this year, President Donald Trump's former
lawyer Michael Cohen, who was recently in the press for
I think recently just just agreed to start his jail
(34:30):
sentence in New York. He told a congressional hearing that
former Trump campaign advisor Roger Stone, who is great television
by the way, was in contact with the songs before
Wiki Leaks released all those emails from the d n
C in the in the Clinton campaign. Roger Stone just
(34:51):
for a second true story, he has a tattoo of
Nixon on his back. He's a apparently a wild swinger. Yeah,
very eccentric character. Say when he plays baseball. He's very erratic.
Is that what you mean? If it's anything like his
love life? Sure? So here for more on that watch
(35:12):
get me, Roger Stone. I don't know if it's still
on Netflix, but it certainly was a little while ago.
I think I think, uh, Rob over it. Behind the
Bastards did an episode on him too. You call him Rob,
I mean Rob. Sure, you guys are tig like that.
That's awesome. Okay, we all call him Mr Evans, Yeah right,
(35:37):
uh yeah, But Behind Bastard's great show. Check it out.
We'll probably have him on our show in a little
while for his newer podcast. It could happen here anyway,
Roger Stone. Uh, of course, someone's personal life shouldn't be
a basis on which to judge their professional conduct. But
that back tad is is weird. Did you look it up?
(35:58):
How was about to say, hello, weird? But I got
ding for saying that. But you know, I knew about it.
It's just I thought it was a joke, like I
thought someone in photoshop that, And then I came to
I looked a little deeper into it, like, no, he
totally has Nixon's face tattooed on his back. Sweet. Yeah,
isn't that weird? I I did. I had one of
those I call him the onion double take where you
read you read something, you're like, no way, let me
(36:20):
check that U r L. Or let me make sure
this is not the onion. Well it was. The Nixon
Presidential Library had this thing where if you got a tattoo,
especially lower back tattoo, you could get into the library
for free for the rest of your life. So I
think he went for it. Okay, so we had a
reason to do it. Uh So. Atlanta is home to
(36:41):
a festival called Shaking Knees and longtime listeners you may
remember that we were. We were excited to go when
we we kind of made a thing out of it
a few years back. Was that two years ago? Yeah,
it was a good bill just to just wrapped up
yesterday for this year. And they also wrapped up their
practice allowing you to get into the concert, to get
(37:02):
into the festival for free for the rest of your
life if you got a tattoo. Yeah, and I do
believe that your wife did that very thing. Yeah, My
wife and her best friend both got them. It was
the last possible moment to do it. It really was
that's pretty clutch. Yeah, I'm excited she's gonna get to
do that every year and hopefully shaking knees. May you
(37:22):
live forever in Atlanta or wherever we end up living
in ten years from now, shake those knees. Yeah that
sounds really weird. Uh. So here we are, and now
we're running into what we could rightly call and you'll
have to edit me here, but I can't think of
a better phrase. A cavalcado fury, because everybody is trying
(37:43):
to figure out what's going on. Who handles what, who
gets a sage at the end of the day, what
what charges? In which countries take priority? Sweden is talking
about reopening the sexual salt case and so on, uh
and the sexual assault case. Uh. The way the law
is phrased and what is considered assault uh does differ
(38:05):
from what is how how assaults has described in the
United States. And that leads some of Assange's supporters, who
many of whom already believed this is just a pretense
to get them to the US. UH. That that leads
his supporters to say that this is a trumped up charge.
And speaking of Donald Trump, UH, specter looms large specter
(38:28):
looms large. Yeah, and he he said recently, people were
of course asking the White House about this, and uh.
When he was asked by journalist about Assange, President Trump said,
I know nothing about Wiki leaks. It's not my thing.
But in October tenth, specifically, Donald Trump was quoted, and
(38:53):
this is right before the election, he was quoted as saying,
I love Wiki leaks, presumably talking about her emails, presumably
talking about the same organization. Maybe there were two, but
her emails, Oh boy, But I mean, anyway, it's interesting.
It's at least worth noting that the president of the
(39:17):
United States is both loves this organization but also knows
nothing about it. It's it's interesting, It's it would appear
to be a pretty hard contradiction, right, just and again,
these are just based on public clips, assuming they're not
deep fakes or some kind of digital uh propaganda job. Yeah, exactly.
(39:39):
Then it appears that he has either forgotten about Wiki
leaks or did not understand what he was referring to
back in Yeah, or it was just so you know,
I'm just being I'm trying my level best to be
fair about that. I think I'm being more than fair
about that. I don't know how you guys feel. He knows.
(39:59):
He yeah, it was such a renowned organization. I mean,
especially someone in his position learning all of I mean
he he'd had two years roughly to learn all of
the security stuff that is happening in the United States.
And you have to think that Wiki Leaks as an
organization is on briefings, maybe not all the time, but
(40:21):
as regularly as they published materials. I'm assuming right it had.
And clearly the US intelligence apparatus wants to shut this
guy down, right, You don't want to set a precedent
of letting things like isn't that the problem too? And
the thing that's interesting about him and makes him so
polarizing is he doesn't really have allegiances that are consistent.
(40:43):
He's kind of a loose cannon, like you can't really
predict who whose side is he on exactly side. I mean,
he's on the he's on his own side, or he's
on some kind of like the side of like idealistic
justice or something. And yet some of the things he does,
like with this little little Clinton Leeks, felt very much
like there was an agenda there. So it's confusing when
(41:05):
you're you mentioned at the top of the show man
that it's all about intent. That's a completely true. But
the problem with a guy like this is he's who's
he beholden to. No one really knows, or if if
we they do know, they're not they're not telling. He
just seems like someone who needs to be neutralized, and
everybody wants a piece because everyone has something to lose
from him doing what he's doing. Kind of you know, yeah,
it's a side conversation, but you know, they're I have
(41:27):
seen some interesting writings about Hillary Clinton in particular, and
about the tendency to perhaps want to engage in wars
overseas for strategic reasons um and part of you know,
some of the some of the like deeper state behind
(41:48):
closed doors kind of discussions that were occurring around that time.
I can imagine why a Julian Assange, who you know,
is known for leaking all of this stuff about military engagements,
would maybe feel like he's got some kind of personal
thing he's got going on there. I'm just trying to
give that perspective, trying to trying to live in their
(42:08):
shoes for a second, just for a moment, just wear
their skin for a moment. Nothing creepy. I just like
to we hear other people's skins. So I'm sorry for people,
all of your ears. What do we say to death? Noel?
So here we are. Julia Sange is currently held at
(42:29):
a high security facility called bell Marsh Prison in East London.
It's a terrible place. He argued that he should not
have to serve time, and he argued it by saying
that you know, I was essentially in prison when I
was in the embassy. That did not fly with the court.
Vice magazine wants you to know the prison he's in
is no Ritz Carlton. Bell Marsh is equipped for nine
(42:52):
hundred inmates at a time, but up to a hundred
and twenty five of the two person cells were often
crammed with three at least three inmates just one and
six said they could shower every day. Uh, there was
a shortage of prison kits. Prison kits being the toilet
trees and the clothing that you get, So it could
(43:14):
have well been a situation where he checks in or
he gets processed and they say, hey, man, where are
we at with toothbrushing and hygiene? Because you are You're
not going to get one of those till tuesdays. Just
he's like, but wait to ware of your breathe but hope. Yeah,
(43:36):
I don't know, it's not it's either way. It's not
a nice place, it's crowded, has some problems and his
as we end today's episode, his legal trials are far, far,
far from over because again his uncle Sam astride those
aircraft carriers eating something delicious that's terrible for you. As
(43:57):
my new favorite song for this episode plays Lee in
the background, it's got and he's saying are He's saying,
get Julian Osage over here, and officials in Sweden and
in a less ostentatious manner, are also saying, yeah, well,
(44:18):
you know, maybe you can stop over here on the
way because we think the guy is a monster. Yeah,
a little prosecution tour, a terrible, terrible tour. What do
you think is next for him? Though? I mean long
long term speaking tours, book deals, Ted Talks, Ted Talks.
It's a tough call. Yeah, it's a tough call. Is
he gonna be canceled? I don't know. I don't know,
(44:39):
because still when we were first off, you have to
take any allegation of sexual assault very seriously, right, um,
and it's a great question. No, I don't know what
to think. I don't it's tough to predict what will happen.
You know, is he going to be extradited? I would
say probably depends on how much time, blood, sweat, and
(45:01):
tears the US wants to put into it, and other
larger questions to loom. Well, what do you think listening today?
Is he a villain? Is he a hero? Is he?
Is he a pawn in the game of global chess?
Or is her rook? Or is he a rook? Perhaps
another you know, chess piece of some kind? Sure? Bishop, Yeah, Bishop,
(45:23):
As the bishop said to the whatever you know the
old joke, as an actor said to a bishop, What
is that about the shape of the bishop? Yeah? So
the said the actress to the bishop, as a colloquial
and vulgar British exclamation offering humor by serving as a
punch line that exposes an unintended dublon tundra. So it
(45:45):
is about the Bishop North America. The equivalent is that's
what she said. Okay, we have one other question that's
been lingering in my mind that we found the course
of the research for this, which is the following did
Pamela Anderson really try to assassinate Julian Assange with a
vegan sandwich? Let us know what you think science signs
(46:08):
point to maybe so. Uh, let's let's get to the
bottom of that one. Let's get to the bottom of
that one. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. We
do have our eye on how this situation will develop.
One thing's for sure. While legal Limbo may have worked
in the Ecuadorian embassy for nearly seven years, events are
(46:29):
probably going to progress at a faster clip from here
on out. And it may be that Assange's ultimate fate
is decided within the next twelve months. We genuinely do
not know, but we will be watching as you are watching,
and we'll have another update. If it's you know, important
enough to come along. Uh, maybe we can couch it
(46:51):
in another episode or something. Maybe we can interview him.
I don't know, Uh, what was his lawyer's name, Barry Pollock?
Are you still in contact act with Juliana Sang Are
you listening to this? Are you Barry Pollock's uh sounder
daughter for relative or maybe coworker or any of the
above for Jennifer Robinson Osange is London based attorney. Yes,
(47:13):
get right to us. Let us know. You can find
us on Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show. Where are
you guys on Instagram? I'm at Embryonic Insider for now,
I am at Ben Bowling and Matt you're at uh,
you're at Sandwich King right, yes, Sandwich Kings with a z.
Oh that's right, that's right, that's right. Sure, that's me. Yeah. Uh.
(47:37):
If you don't want to do that, you can find
us on Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff or Facebook conspiracy stuff.
You can look at our Facebook page called Here's where
it gets Crazy. Yeah, it's a lot of fun conversation
and memory and discussions. We have usually have a post
for every episode where you can kind of keep the
discussion in that field so it doesn't get out of control. Um.
All you gotta do to become a member of that
(47:58):
is name one of our names, just one, I think,
just one, or make us chuck or yeah exactly. We
save screenshots of a lot of those, and the good
ones are quite good and you will get in with
just a very clever nod. Just mentioned Badgers somewhere, oh boy, yeah,
oh yes, and Matt, what do people do if the
(48:19):
social meads are just not for them, and then it's
not their their bag badgers. Well put those social meds down,
because we have something that your phone can do. No,
it's not browsing the internet. No, it's not post Instagram things.
It can be a dumb phone. You can literally make
a phone call to us. You can leave a message,
(48:40):
give us a call. We are one eight three three
st d w y t K. Have you noticed that's
becoming affront to call people like? People just are like,
they just don't they're not about it. What is this?
What is this thing that's happening to my phone right
now as it's buzzing a numbers coming up? Throw it
out the window, come up with fire. Have a shortlist?
I think I have a shortlist of people for whom
(49:01):
I will answer the phone. It's I think it's egregious.
I think it's intrusional privacy. I gotten a little bit
of tiff with our pals over at the Daily Zeitgeist
about it, because I told him I thought phone calls
were generally overrated. It's real, friends, text I'll die on
this hill. Well I won't die on that hill, but
I will disagree with you. Sir, because that's my one
(49:23):
of my favorite ways of communicating. I also like a
good phone call catch up from time to time, but
I do not like a quick phone call that could
be accomplished with a text. I think it's like a
good old friend catch up or like that's nice to
do over the phone, that personal touch. But if it's
a business thing or like a quick thing, I don't
like it when you call me all right, don't call
(49:44):
me a definitely call hey, hey, sorry, Paul, call our
number because we we love hearing these amazing messages and
we use them in episodes as well. Yeah, and if
you get a weird phone call from a four or
four or seven seven zero or six seven eight, depending
on which randomized phone number I'm using, it's probably me
because I'm calling you back because I really enjoy doing that.
(50:07):
You're also a great person. I just want to know.
I just don't don't listen to him, but I really
enjoy calling you. Who people, anyone out there who is
listening and has like taken the time to leave us
a voicemail. Oh yeah. It's just really cool to know
there are other humans out there and it's not just
us in a box. I'm going to take a page
from the book of Matt and maybe I'll call a
(50:27):
couple of you to do it. Matt, you're one of
the last great conversationalists. Sir, I tipped my hat to you, America.
And if that is your inspiration and you have a
story that you feel we are more importantly, your fellow
listeners will immensely enjoy or just something that they should know.
(50:49):
Uh please, please don't let don't let social media be
an obstacle. If you don't care for phones, don't let
that be an obstacle. You can contact us directly right now.
All you have to do is send us a good
old an email. We are conspiracy at i heeart radio
dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is
(51:23):
a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back
(00:24):
to the show. My name is Matt, my name is
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you
are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. An update episode, We're
going topical. You are We're working with live fire. Uh
(00:45):
this peek behind the current. We typically record where endeavored
to record a few weeks in advance of publication date,
mainly because stories can change pretty rapidly in these modern
times of ours, and this episode as a result of that.
This episode may include information that becomes outdated or needs
(01:08):
an update. But for right now, we're going to We're
gonna give you the straight pop, as they probably say
somewhere in Minnesota on and unfolding events. Does anybody else
remember when wiki leaks was a daily headline. Didn't matter
where you turned, everything was Wiki leaks, right yeah, and
especially it had a bit of a resurgence there for
(01:29):
a while when the presidential election was happening in when
that that name started being bandied about again. But it
goes way back to ten roughly when it was very
very popular, right right, And it was around even before then.
It was founded in Iceland in two thousand six. And
despite the fact that you don't we hear about it
(01:51):
as much as you did, it's still soldiering along. Today's
story is not about wiki leaks. However, you want to
learn about wiki leaks, you can go look at their
own website which is still up. Uh, and we do
have an old series of videos on it, that's right,
which gets the gist of what it is, you know,
(02:13):
but not not the recent greatest hits. Instead, today we
are exploring the recent misadventures of wiki leaks founder, the
infamous and somewhat targary in looking Julian Assange. Oh, he
is a little target. I don't want to body shame.
I think I think targarians look really cool, but he
looks like one. It's more like the kind of like
platinum blonde, blue eyed kind of vibe. Right, A little
(02:37):
bit of it. It's changed, it's changed significantly. Yeah, being
grounded for years will do that. But Julian Assange, this
name is familiar to us. If you're listening to this show,
you have it is almost certainly not the first time
you've heard this name. But let's learn a little bit
about the guy behind the moniker. Who is Julie Nossange. Well,
(03:01):
for that, we have to go all the way back
to nineteen seventy one to a place called Townsville, Australia.
Isn't that where Chemical X was created and then created
the power Puff Girls? Oh my goodness, the mayor of
Townsville doesn't bring any bells because of my lack of
power Puff information, I will say, yes, okay, and I
appreciate you taking my word for it, but this is
(03:23):
a different Townsville. Well, he's carrying in Townsville. In nineteen
seventy one, Julian Assange was birthed as a baby. He
came into this world and he didn't have any documents
with him, but he was given his first documents very
soon after that, proving that he was in fact born.
Uh and uh. This is a gentleman who grew up.
He really enjoyed computers. He was good at them. He
(03:44):
ended up hacking into the databases of several organizations that
we would consider high profile sure corporations, countries, governments. In
two thousand and six, he said, you know, I should
take this to a global scale and international skill. I
should take what I'm doing by myself and open it
(04:05):
to the world. So he began work on what we
call wiki leaks today, and surprisingly he pulled it off.
He enjoyed a brief and shining moment in the spotlight.
Was he a hero speaking truth to power, a coward
and dangering lives across the planet, a straight up megalomaniac.
He was portrayed as all of these and more in
the media, and he earned the coveted Time Magazines Person
(04:28):
of the Year title in twenty Also, let's not forget
that person of the Year. It isn't necessarily an accolade.
It's not a compliment. It just means you shook some
stuff up for better or worse. Well, yeah, and and
that's exactly what he was doing. He you know that
speaking truth to power. I don't know if I necessarily
believe that, but I think all of us had moments
(04:49):
where the actions of Julian Assange were so striking. Um
of you know, hacking into the places that were hacked
or you know, leaking information that was given to the
that really spoke to bad things that were happening within
big organizations. And you know, I think that's why Time
did just what we're talking about. That's why Time did it,
(05:10):
because it was so earth shaking for sure, I mean
genuinely shook the foundations. Yeah, and he was loved and feared.
I think it is the right way to put it right, right,
he was. Indeed. The thing is that Wiki Leaks and
Assange were dogged by criticism, controversy, and conspiracy theories pretty
(05:33):
much since their inception. People would write to us all
these years ago and say, well, who do you think
is really in charge of wiki leaks in Russia? Is
it the c i A, Is it you know, MASSAD
or some other organization? And how impartial are they? Not
very as we would come to find. But two thousand
(05:54):
ten rose and fell like some Tigeria Nichorus. I guess
he flew too close to the sun of the mass
media and classified information from governments and businesses. Is the
year everything started to go wrong for Julian Assange. He
ended up seeking asylum in Ecuador, technically in Ecuador. Uh,
(06:17):
here's how it went down. We've got a timeline. I
guess we could call it how to dodge the law
in Ecuador with an asterisk. Yeah. I don't think he's
actually been to the country of Ecuador. Well, it did, technically,
it's been to the territory, sort of like being at
the airport in Paris or something like that. Have you
really been to Paris? You know? Well, well, okay, So
(06:39):
here's what I've what I believe is that everything surrounding
this situation is about motivation. Uh, motivation behind actions by
the US government, motivations of actions behind Julian Assange or whatever.
Absolutely well, yes, and also of Chelsea Manning government, exactly
(07:02):
all of them together. Like it's about the intentions and
why they're doing what they're doing. Right. So, let's so
in a April of two thousand ten, that is when
Chelsea Manning, uh, well, by this time, Chelsea Manning has
given video and information about an air strike that occurred
in two thousand seven, two wiki leaks, and in this
(07:24):
air strike there were more than ten Iraqis like civilians
and two journalists that were killed in these air strikes.
You I cannot remember the name of War, the War Tapes,
or something to this effect. You can find it through
wiki leaks. It was really brutal and there was a
(07:45):
ton of um press about this when it came out.
It was very high profile in that regard. Then in May,
Chelsea Manning, the person who leaked this stuff too Wiki leaks,
who then leaked it was arrested for doing that, for
for leaking it to wikiliks. And in August of that year,
trouble was brewing across the Atlantic. Prosecutors from Sweden ordered
(08:10):
the arrest of Julian Assange on suspected charges of sexual assault,
rape and molestation. Yes, and this is where the intentions
come into play, because you're seeing information on both are
from both sides here that in particularly from Wikiliks and
Julian Osange. They like this was an attempt to extradite
(08:34):
Julian Assange to the United States, right, get him into
get him back to a place or to a place
that would extradite him to the United States. Right, and
prosecutors in Sweden issue an international warrant for his arrest. December,
he gets arrested by the British police and the court says,
(08:56):
you know what, we're going to grant him bail and
he fights this charge. He is trying to overturn his
extradition to Sweden. It doesn't work. It's this missed in
November of twenty eleven and in twelve August of twenty twelve,
so he's got some months on the lamb. Here August,
he is officially granted asylum at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.
(09:19):
That's why we're making a big to do about calling
it technically Ecuador, because the land of the embassy is
technically sovereign soil. But it's a building. It's a building.
It's sort of like when the Communion way for just
transubstantiated into like the body of Christ or whatever. It's
like one of those guys is magical thinking, magical realism.
I think a lot of international affairs hinge on magical realism.
(09:41):
You know. Uh, like passports, that's a big thing. There's
one person who doesn't have to have a passport. It's
the Queen of the UK because the passport issued in
her name. Well, yeah, there you go, and then she's
got the tier or the crown or whatever the thing is.
It's a very big deal in over there. Um. So,
(10:03):
so in November of that year, this highly publicized event
occurs where Julian Assange uh comes like he's at the
embassy and he goes out on this balcony and he
makes a speech there about what he's doing, why he's
doing it, what the US government wants to do. Um
makes all of these things public and puts it in
his own voice and has some stunning uh, some stunning
(10:27):
hot takes on Crocodile dundee, both the first one and
the sequel. There you go, that's what they don't want
you to know. Highly important stuff. But it was his
for it was the first time anyone had got or
at least the public had seen him since he was
seeking asylum two months earlier, back in back in August.
And again like just remember that timeline two thousand ten
is when it's that arrest warrant is first issued. Two
(10:49):
years later, he gets to the bail and then ends
up in the embassy. Yeah, and he has been there, right,
this is becoming his home, the Stockholm District Court in
while he's still at the embassy. Remember, life's going on
for everyone else doing some skyping. Yeah, he's stuck in
this building. Uh, they decided that he should remain detained
(11:12):
after he requested that they review his detention order, and
then in August he promised he would leave the embassy soon.
Soon is a relative term, right, yes, it really really is. Uh,
then what happens in well, in the Ecuadorian government cuts
(11:32):
off his internet access. I had to have been a
death blow for a guy like that build his whole
life reputation online. He's got nothing, he's cut off. But yeah,
well it's because Wiki League's published her emails. Remember her emails? Yeah, yeah,
(11:53):
an absolute motherload of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign emails. The
government said is it's trying to make sure he can't
interfere in the affairs of other countries. Fair, right, I
think it's fair. We're Ecuador, we're doing you a solid,
and world superpowers are really coming down hard on us.
(12:13):
Can you stop making things worse so you're making us
look really bad? Julie as it's like if you're ever,
if you know, I don't know how wild everyone's lives are,
but it's like if you are, you know, in your
college days and you're getting a dive bar fight, and
then it's all because one of your friends is a
run in their mouths, and you are somehow single handedly uh,
(12:37):
defending yourself from like and him from like eight people
way bigger than you, and the guys in the back going. Yeah,
kick kick his ass, tell his tell his his mom
is also ugly, and you're like, dude, either help me
out or shut up, and he's not doing either of
those things. So it's without choosing a side, and without
us actually being in the room, we can say at
(13:00):
this on the surface seems like poor house guest behavior. Yeah.
It's also like if a guy staying on your couch
just starts peeing on everything. Yes, yes, I mean, and
we'll see it again because it's it. He's just not
that great of a tenant, because if anything, he gets
more erratic and peeing on everything isn't necessarily that far
(13:20):
off the markt right exactly. In uh November of UH
he is questioned again within the embassy is not leaving
the embassy. He has questioned over those sexual assault charges
in Sweden, and in April of Attorney General Jeff Sessions
(13:41):
at the time, who proceeded Attorney General Barr, says that
arresting Assange is a top priority for the US. We
want this guy under the jail. Is he going to
get get mode? I don't know. And it's unfortunate that
we live in a world where that can be a verb.
Nobody wants to get get mode. No one wants to
get get mode. But then only a month later, only
(14:02):
a month later, Sweden comes out and they're saying we're
dropping all charges against Julian A songe. Uh, that's done.
We're not gonna do this whole extradition thing that he's
worried about. Have no fear. We're dropping those charges um.
And Julian Song says, well, that's great, but I'm gonna
stay here just in case, right right, because although Swedeness
(14:24):
dropped the charges, uh, the UK still has an arrest
out for him. And he's like, all right, well, we
got Sweden off the list. Let's let me see if
I can work something out with the United Kingdom. This
is unsuccessful. February he loses his bid to get them
to drop uh, drop their arrests and charges. And then
(14:47):
in March. Oh, it's like history is repeating itself. Right,
I could work cuts off his communication entirely, say look,
you just cannot send messages at all. We tried to
stop you with the internet stuff. No no more, no
snail mail, no nothing, because you are again, dude, you
are making the bar fight worse. You are peeing on
(15:09):
our geopolitical couch. Stop. We're gonna need you to surrender
your pager as well, because not even that's too much. Well, yeah,
because he said, uh, he was sending again sending messages
they would interfere with other countries goings on. That's what
they call in the South, poking the bear. Yeah, exactly,
need to leave that bear alone, especially when you're in
(15:31):
our house, and because the bear is gonna come for us.
The bears do not discriminate, you know. And October Assange
decides to sue Ecuador because he doesn't like how they've
changed the nature of his asylum. They had they had
recently asked him to start, you know, paying rent, kicking
(15:54):
in rent and bills, and to take better care of
his cat. That is not made up. Apparently he was
letting the cat run wild. Is I guess he was
above doing kitty litter. I don't know. They let him
have a cat. They let him have a cat. What
did he have on these these poor SAPs? By the way,
I mean what, maybe we're gonna get there, but why
(16:15):
why did they why did they put up with all
of this? Well, I mean they thought they were defending journalism,
that's the stated claim. Yeah, is it really worth the
Ecuador at this point? Good lord, that's the question Ecuador
is asking. What did they decide to do? Will tell
you after a word from our sponsor, we're back. We're
(16:41):
in legal limbo. Ecuador has a problem on their hands,
and the rest of the world is champing at the
bit to get that problem off of their hands. And
this situation, as strange as it might appear, is unfortunately
not unique. We have to remember that Edwards Snowdon, when
last we checked, still side somewhere in Russia and will
(17:02):
probably not return to the US within his lifetime. And
there is a real legal and otherwise threat to anyone
who leaks, especially highly classified documents from a you know,
let's say a giant military, one of the biggest, oh wait,
the biggest, most powerful military in the world. It's uh
that you put yourself in danger and escaping trying to
(17:26):
get somewhere else where you're away from the reach of
that military and or other parties involved. It's what's going
to happen. You know, we should probably try to interview
Snowdon and Assange. What do you guys think do you
think they would they wouldn't talk to us. Well, I
know Snowdon did uh interview recently in April. He did
(17:48):
an interview on Vice, so we can talk to him.
I've seen that one. Yeah, yeah, let's ull. Hey, hey,
Paul put out some feelers. Okay, wow, cold blooded my friend.
It just Paul's got a lot to do, so he's
doing it right now. I see him. He's he's texting,
she's he's got But now it's just going straight to Ecuador.
(18:14):
So yeah, they're in this legal limbo and we have
to start seriously asking ourselves how long will this house
of cards remain remains stable? Was Julian Assange set to
live out the rest of his life within the bounds
of the Ecuadorian embassy? And remember there were police waiting
for years just for him to cross the threshold. It
(18:36):
was serious. Despite all these overtures and threats and demands
from the UK, the U, S, and Sweden, it seemed
that the countries who wanted him on trial or arrested
or dead still respected going back to that magical thinking point.
International norms too much to storm the embassy and physically
remove Asange because it would be an act of war.
(18:57):
It would be a bad look. So his life and
freedom were in Ecuador's hands and this April that support disappeared.
Here's where it gets crazy. On December sixen uh Barry Pollock,
who is an attorney for Mr Sane, he said that
his client will not be accepting a deal that was
(19:18):
at least the talks were happening right then between the
UK and Ecuador to allow Juliana Sane to be released
from the embassy and go about his business. Uh It
talks broke down. The agreement was rejected over fears that
it could be used as some kind of pretext. At
least these are fears on the behalf of Mr Sane
and his attorney that the agreement itself would be just
(19:39):
a pretext, basically a way to extradite him back to
the United States because again he's in the middle. He's
in the middle of London. He's in London, and yeah,
an Ecuador in the UK that their deal hinged on
uh one solid agreement. Ecuador said, well, whatever he's done,
right or wrong, be it as it, we do not
(20:00):
support the death penalty, so we cannot agree to put
him in your hands unless you can promise us that
no matter what happens, he doesn't die, which it was
clearly not enough. That is like a gentleman's agreement though,
like I mean, what what they demand some kind of
written like affidavit that I mean, once you hand him over.
(20:20):
It is kind of like all bets are offering. Possession
is nine tenths of the law habeas corpus and so on.
The problem is that it was it was pretty much
a handshake agreement. They may have had. I'm sure they
had documentation of it, but they no one made a
law that's just for this one guy and his team.
One of one of his lawyers said that the suggestion
(20:44):
that as long as the death penalty is off the table,
Mr Sane need not fear persecution is obviously wrong because,
as we know, their fates worse than death and arguably
being imprisoned for the rest of your life, whether in
a legitimate prison or a more dodgy place like Guantanamo Bay. Uh,
that's not a life a lot of people want to live. No,
(21:08):
not at all. So then let's go to this year
February twenty nineteen, Australia comes out and they say, hey, guys,
I want to just want everyone to know here, Julia
Sane in fact has a valid passport. It's working. He
could use that passport to return to Townsville, good old
power Puff Townsville, Australia. Um, he could go there right
(21:32):
now if we wanted to send him that way. In
the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the or
de Fat fat that's a street name. Uh. They they
went ahead and said, yes, we're confirming here that a
passport has been approved for for Mr Songe by the government.
And this passport was filed filed four by Mr san
(21:55):
So they said, whatever is happening if he makes it here,
we're just saying he could. We're just say we could
let him in. So he does have a passport. And
again passports are requisite for people who were the highest
and the lowest technically on paper. Everyone has to have
a passport and go through customs. And I still find
it's so incredible how like a document can have such power,
(22:17):
you know what I mean. It's like he's got a passport,
he's good to go. Yeah, yeah, I still get I
don't know what about you guys, but I still get
creeped out when I travel internationally because customs can vary widely.
The first time I always in England, Um, I had
to stop at customs because it wasn't enough that I said, yeah,
I have a hotel and going to They were like,
(22:38):
all right, we need the address and we need to
confirm that that's where you're going to be. The guy
was cool about it. He even called me squire, which
was just profoundly endearing. And passports are essentially a way
to restrict several things. They are a way to restrict
uh immigration of people that a country finds und desirable,
(23:00):
and that could be anything from intelligence agencies to poor people. Right.
They also function is a way for a country to
protect its sovereignty at its borders. Um. And they also
function as symbolic statements for how they feel about other countries.
You know what I mean. It's actually it's surprisingly affordable
(23:21):
to buy a passport from a like somewhat sketchy country
and still travel with it. Yes, have you done that? Well,
that's certainly like the whole go bag situation. Right, Like
if you're trying to escape or you're on the lamb
and you get some shady person who provides the service
to help you out. They either forge a passport. I
think more often than not they will buy a passport
(23:43):
from one of these countries where it's a little more
easy to come by, Is that right, man, Yeah, yeah,
you can. You can buy uh second passport from various places.
The thing is you have to you have to think
about how much how much it will cost you versus
how effective the passport will be, how you know how
(24:04):
widely accepted it is. For instance, you can get a
very expensive passport or minimum investment kind of loophole uh
In in Turkey, for instance, it's it's million dollars give
us you invest a million dollars in a country, Boom
your Turkish congratulations, help yourself to some cuisine and of
(24:27):
our delights, and some of those prices go down to
a hundred thousand dollars or even lower. But Julian Osange
had his own legitimate Australian passport, non Ecuadorian citizen, and
his Australian passport is no guarantee that he would automatically
get accepted because any transit country he went to could
(24:50):
stop him at any point and uh hand him over.
So Wiki Leaks got word of ill tidings in April
of nineteen, and they tweeted on the fifth that a
level source within the Ecuadorian state had told them Assange
would be expelled from the embassy within days or hours. Wow. Yeah,
that changes things a little bit. It's not great news
(25:10):
to hear, you know, especially if he's reading his tweets. No,
his his communications are cut off. I think it's been
reinstanted at that point. I'm not sure. I was hoping
that I could imagine him in a carrier pigeon like
getting along and it just living in the embassy with
his cat. That would be a fun relationship. Yeah, that
would be are you are you pitching a show now? Yeah,
(25:32):
that would be a fun relationship. Who can we get
to Gilbert Godfrey played the cat or is he more
of the pigeon? Yeah, he's the bird. He's good. Yeah.
It's weird because shortly thereafter, another Ecuadorian official came forward
and said there was no decision made to remove him
(25:53):
from the London building, and then on April eleven, they
did just that. Yep, that is correct. On the eleventh
of April of this year, twenty nineteen, Mr Assange gets
arrested at London's Ecuadorian embassy by Metropolitan Police officers for quote,
failing to surrender to the court. Um, can we get
(26:18):
a quick clip of this pretty monumental encounter. It'll be brief.
There you going, and you should be able to hear
him saying resist and things along that line. Because we
(26:40):
are an audio podcast, we we would like to draw
your attention to Osange's appearance as as he got pulled out,
as we said at the top of the show, the
years in the embassy and not been kind to him.
He looks in general kind of disheveled, feel emaciated, too long,
kind of weird, stringy hair, ratty beard. Yeah, and he
(27:01):
can't blame him because he's living under tremendous stress, right,
And that's one thing that was kind of irritated. Get
the comedy of it, but so many people spend time
just busting on the guy's appearance and roasting him when
it's like, hey, there's also a precedent should we arrest journalists?
Is he a journalist or is he just like a
spy master? You know? And people were like, ha ha, yeah,
(27:25):
but look a look at his beard though, what's up
with his cat? I don't know why is he skateboarding
in the halls? That was a thing. Yes, he was
a bad boy. Uh So what were these international violations?
Were they violations of existing laws that he was continuing
(27:47):
to uh engage in? Or were they violations of again
kind of this gentleman's agreement with the Ecuadorian embassy. We
know that Wiki Leaks pulled a no you move and
they said, actually Ecuador's acting illegally because they terminated his
asylum in violation of international law. Burned right, Okay, you
(28:09):
guys really bad got into that one. Uh So, the
entire time this is happening, there is a looming figure
on the horizon, a figure just over so tall that
you can see them over the Atlantic Ocean. Silhouette Godzilla
with a top hat. It's kind of a Mr Pan.
(28:30):
It's Uncle Sam, who who we go toe to toe
with Godzilla and Mr Peanut. You know, although I feel
like Uncle Sam and Mr Peanut would get along, I
think they would get along. Yeah, we think that. I
think so old Uncle Sam is. He's a straddling too
giant US aircraft carriers one ft on each, and he's
(28:53):
just surfing across the ocean towards a song. That America
song from the South Park Guys film is playing America,
the one, you know, the one, So the US is there.
They want a piece. They say, now it's the time
(29:14):
to act. So they file a charge against Julian O.
Sane and they say this guy, we charge him with
computer hacking hours after he's arrested in London. Uh, following
first they asked, They're like, oh, hey, al right, guys,
chop chop, uh tut tally hoo, whatever you say, get
this guy to us. And then also we're charging him
(29:36):
with computer hacking. And then they they drilled down into
it so specifically they're charging him for agreeing to break
a password to a classified government computer. I love the
full name of the charge. It's it's the most dry,
toast kind of like charge you can have you ever
heard of. It's conspiracy to make computer intrusion for agreeing
(29:57):
to break a password to a classified US government computer.
Wolf poetry sounds dangerous. So if he gets convicted of this,
then he would serve five years in prison, assuming that
he was not disappeared, which is a possibility. And they
say that the password was sought by Chelsea Manning. And
(30:18):
Chelsea Manning is a former Army intelligence officer, I'm sure
we're all familiar with her, who provided a sage with
a trove of these documents that Wiki Leaks published in.
According to the indictment, the one with the very sexy
charge name, uh, this constitutes one of the largest compromises
of classified information in the history of the United States. Embarrassing,
(30:43):
that's what Uncle Sam said he did. He did, he did,
say how embarrassing, and then he shot gun to bud
light and then climbed back on a Clydesdale and wrote
off into the sunsets and then that can you do
the first part of that song to get America? So
(31:04):
I love that. I don't know why I also taking
with that, but yes, So they say that he was
breaking the morays of journalism. He was not being a
traditional journalist when he agreed to help Manning crack the
password that let her access this stuff. But mores are
not enforceable by law, my friend, are they just sort
(31:24):
of bad form? Who makes the law? Well? Yeah, right,
But they said he broke the laws it's if you're
a Glenn Greenwald or another journalist, it's okay to verify
and put out stuff that people have given you, but
it's not okay for you to help them steal it. There.
That's that's when you're crossing the line and doing something
completely different than journalism. That that more is a conspiracy
(31:46):
or aiding and abetting a felony. Right, I think you're right, Yeah,
it is technically conspiracy, isn't it. So here we are,
we're twenty nine, were present day, were very were very
close to president right now, right now, Okay, we're in
the moment, guys, I'm here. What the heck is gonna happen?
He's re arrested. What happens next? We'll find out after
a quick word from our sponsor. Not guilty, y'all got
(32:14):
to feel me. A Sannge pleads not guilty at the
Westminster Magistrate's Court. But he's convicted of failing to surrender
to police on June twenty nine, two thousand twelve, when
they originally came after him. And then he will he
will be sentenced. Uh. He was sentenced in Crown Court,
where more serious crimes are heard, and then he'll also
face extradition. Hearings one on my second one on June twelve.
(32:38):
His lawyers are livid. They're unhappy with this. They say
this is a sign of terrible global trend. Yeah. Um.
A Sane's attorney, Jennifer Robinson, who's based in London, was
quoted in saying that the arrest quote sets a dangerous
precedent for all media organizations and journalists. She goes on,
(33:02):
since we've warned that Julian Assange would face extradition to
the US for his publishing activities with Wiki leaks. Unfortunately
today we've been proven right. And then she added that
after having just spoken to a Sange Um that his
message to the world was I told you so wow,
(33:22):
Oh the most endearing of messages. So endearing. It's okay,
It's okay because really, honestly, they did kind of or
they kind of knew this, and Julian Osange was warning
for a long period of time, like they're coming for me.
This is happening. Here's why. Let me give you a list,
this is what's going to happen. But you know it
did take what almost seven years? Yeah, and normally I
(33:48):
think we can all agree that I told you so
is just a super unhelpful thing to say in any
personal situation. But we should give him a pass on
this one because he did exactly what you're describing, Matt.
He did tell us so, he said so. So It's
true Wiki Leaks knew this was coming, and probably knew
for a long long time. The group had repeatedly claimed
(34:08):
that the Department of Justice in the US was building
a criminal case centered on the leaking of those emails
hacked apparently by the Russians in the twenty sixteen campaign.
And in February of this year, President Donald Trump's former
lawyer Michael Cohen, who was recently in the press for
I think recently just just agreed to start his jail
(34:30):
sentence in New York. He told a congressional hearing that
former Trump campaign advisor Roger Stone, who is great television
by the way, was in contact with the songs before
Wiki Leaks released all those emails from the d n
C in the in the Clinton campaign. Roger Stone just
(34:51):
for a second true story, he has a tattoo of
Nixon on his back. He's a apparently a wild swinger. Yeah,
very eccentric character. Say when he plays baseball. He's very erratic.
Is that what you mean? If it's anything like his
love life? Sure? So here for more on that watch
(35:12):
get me, Roger Stone. I don't know if it's still
on Netflix, but it certainly was a little while ago.
I think I think, uh, Rob over it. Behind the
Bastards did an episode on him too. You call him Rob,
I mean Rob. Sure, you guys are tig like that.
That's awesome. Okay, we all call him Mr Evans, Yeah right,
(35:37):
uh yeah, But Behind Bastard's great show. Check it out.
We'll probably have him on our show in a little
while for his newer podcast. It could happen here anyway,
Roger Stone. Uh, of course, someone's personal life shouldn't be
a basis on which to judge their professional conduct. But
that back tad is is weird. Did you look it up?
(35:58):
How was about to say, hello, weird? But I got
ding for saying that. But you know, I knew about it.
It's just I thought it was a joke, like I
thought someone in photoshop that, And then I came to
I looked a little deeper into it, like, no, he
totally has Nixon's face tattooed on his back. Sweet. Yeah,
isn't that weird? I I did. I had one of
those I call him the onion double take where you
read you read something, you're like, no way, let me
(36:20):
check that U r L. Or let me make sure
this is not the onion. Well it was. The Nixon
Presidential Library had this thing where if you got a tattoo,
especially lower back tattoo, you could get into the library
for free for the rest of your life. So I
think he went for it. Okay, so we had a
reason to do it. Uh So. Atlanta is home to
(36:41):
a festival called Shaking Knees and longtime listeners you may
remember that we were. We were excited to go when
we we kind of made a thing out of it
a few years back. Was that two years ago? Yeah,
it was a good bill just to just wrapped up
yesterday for this year. And they also wrapped up their
practice allowing you to get into the concert, to get
(37:02):
into the festival for free for the rest of your
life if you got a tattoo. Yeah, and I do
believe that your wife did that very thing. Yeah, My
wife and her best friend both got them. It was
the last possible moment to do it. It really was
that's pretty clutch. Yeah, I'm excited she's gonna get to
do that every year and hopefully shaking knees. May you
(37:22):
live forever in Atlanta or wherever we end up living
in ten years from now, shake those knees. Yeah that
sounds really weird. Uh. So here we are, and now
we're running into what we could rightly call and you'll
have to edit me here, but I can't think of
a better phrase. A cavalcado fury, because everybody is trying
(37:43):
to figure out what's going on. Who handles what, who
gets a sage at the end of the day, what
what charges? In which countries take priority? Sweden is talking
about reopening the sexual salt case and so on, uh
and the sexual assault case. Uh. The way the law
is phrased and what is considered assault uh does differ
(38:05):
from what is how how assaults has described in the
United States. And that leads some of Assange's supporters, who
many of whom already believed this is just a pretense
to get them to the US. UH. That that leads
his supporters to say that this is a trumped up charge.
And speaking of Donald Trump, UH, specter looms large specter
(38:28):
looms large. Yeah, and he he said recently, people were
of course asking the White House about this, and uh.
When he was asked by journalist about Assange, President Trump said,
I know nothing about Wiki leaks. It's not my thing.
But in October tenth, specifically, Donald Trump was quoted, and
(38:53):
this is right before the election, he was quoted as saying,
I love Wiki leaks, presumably talking about her emails, presumably
talking about the same organization. Maybe there were two, but
her emails, Oh boy, But I mean, anyway, it's interesting.
It's at least worth noting that the president of the
(39:17):
United States is both loves this organization but also knows
nothing about it. It's it's interesting, It's it would appear
to be a pretty hard contradiction, right, just and again,
these are just based on public clips, assuming they're not
deep fakes or some kind of digital uh propaganda job. Yeah, exactly.
(39:39):
Then it appears that he has either forgotten about Wiki
leaks or did not understand what he was referring to
back in Yeah, or it was just so you know,
I'm just being I'm trying my level best to be
fair about that. I think I'm being more than fair
about that. I don't know how you guys feel. He knows.
(39:59):
He yeah, it was such a renowned organization. I mean,
especially someone in his position learning all of I mean
he he'd had two years roughly to learn all of
the security stuff that is happening in the United States.
And you have to think that Wiki Leaks as an
organization is on briefings, maybe not all the time, but
(40:21):
as regularly as they published materials. I'm assuming right it had.
And clearly the US intelligence apparatus wants to shut this
guy down, right, You don't want to set a precedent
of letting things like isn't that the problem too? And
the thing that's interesting about him and makes him so
polarizing is he doesn't really have allegiances that are consistent.
(40:43):
He's kind of a loose cannon, like you can't really
predict who whose side is he on exactly side. I mean,
he's on the he's on his own side, or he's
on some kind of like the side of like idealistic
justice or something. And yet some of the things he does,
like with this little little Clinton Leeks, felt very much
like there was an agenda there. So it's confusing when
(41:05):
you're you mentioned at the top of the show man
that it's all about intent. That's a completely true. But
the problem with a guy like this is he's who's
he beholden to. No one really knows, or if if
we they do know, they're not they're not telling. He
just seems like someone who needs to be neutralized, and
everybody wants a piece because everyone has something to lose
from him doing what he's doing. Kind of you know, yeah,
it's a side conversation, but you know, they're I have
(41:27):
seen some interesting writings about Hillary Clinton in particular, and
about the tendency to perhaps want to engage in wars
overseas for strategic reasons um and part of you know,
some of the some of the like deeper state behind
(41:48):
closed doors kind of discussions that were occurring around that time.
I can imagine why a Julian Assange, who you know,
is known for leaking all of this stuff about military engagements,
would maybe feel like he's got some kind of personal
thing he's got going on there. I'm just trying to
give that perspective, trying to trying to live in their
(42:08):
shoes for a second, just for a moment, just wear
their skin for a moment. Nothing creepy. I just like
to we hear other people's skins. So I'm sorry for people,
all of your ears. What do we say to death? Noel?
So here we are. Julia Sange is currently held at
(42:29):
a high security facility called bell Marsh Prison in East London.
It's a terrible place. He argued that he should not
have to serve time, and he argued it by saying
that you know, I was essentially in prison when I
was in the embassy. That did not fly with the court.
Vice magazine wants you to know the prison he's in
is no Ritz Carlton. Bell Marsh is equipped for nine
(42:52):
hundred inmates at a time, but up to a hundred
and twenty five of the two person cells were often
crammed with three at least three inmates just one and
six said they could shower every day. Uh, there was
a shortage of prison kits. Prison kits being the toilet
trees and the clothing that you get, So it could
(43:14):
have well been a situation where he checks in or
he gets processed and they say, hey, man, where are
we at with toothbrushing and hygiene? Because you are You're
not going to get one of those till tuesdays. Just
he's like, but wait to ware of your breathe but hope. Yeah,
(43:36):
I don't know, it's not it's either way. It's not
a nice place, it's crowded, has some problems and his
as we end today's episode, his legal trials are far, far,
far from over because again his uncle Sam astride those
aircraft carriers eating something delicious that's terrible for you. As
(43:57):
my new favorite song for this episode plays Lee in
the background, it's got and he's saying are He's saying,
get Julian Osage over here, and officials in Sweden and
in a less ostentatious manner, are also saying, yeah, well,
(44:18):
you know, maybe you can stop over here on the
way because we think the guy is a monster. Yeah,
a little prosecution tour, a terrible, terrible tour. What do
you think is next for him? Though? I mean long
long term speaking tours, book deals, Ted Talks, Ted Talks.
It's a tough call. Yeah, it's a tough call. Is
he gonna be canceled? I don't know. I don't know,
(44:39):
because still when we were first off, you have to
take any allegation of sexual assault very seriously, right, um,
and it's a great question. No, I don't know what
to think. I don't it's tough to predict what will happen.
You know, is he going to be extradited? I would
say probably depends on how much time, blood, sweat, and
(45:01):
tears the US wants to put into it, and other
larger questions to loom. Well, what do you think listening today?
Is he a villain? Is he a hero? Is he?
Is he a pawn in the game of global chess?
Or is her rook? Or is he a rook? Perhaps
another you know, chess piece of some kind? Sure? Bishop, Yeah, Bishop,
(45:23):
As the bishop said to the whatever you know the
old joke, as an actor said to a bishop, What
is that about the shape of the bishop? Yeah? So
the said the actress to the bishop, as a colloquial
and vulgar British exclamation offering humor by serving as a
punch line that exposes an unintended dublon tundra. So it
(45:45):
is about the Bishop North America. The equivalent is that's
what she said. Okay, we have one other question that's
been lingering in my mind that we found the course
of the research for this, which is the following did
Pamela Anderson really try to assassinate Julian Assange with a
vegan sandwich? Let us know what you think science signs
(46:08):
point to maybe so. Uh, let's let's get to the
bottom of that one. Let's get to the bottom of
that one. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. We
do have our eye on how this situation will develop.
One thing's for sure. While legal Limbo may have worked
in the Ecuadorian embassy for nearly seven years, events are
(46:29):
probably going to progress at a faster clip from here
on out. And it may be that Assange's ultimate fate
is decided within the next twelve months. We genuinely do
not know, but we will be watching as you are watching,
and we'll have another update. If it's you know, important
enough to come along. Uh, maybe we can couch it
(46:51):
in another episode or something. Maybe we can interview him.
I don't know, Uh, what was his lawyer's name, Barry Pollock?
Are you still in contact act with Juliana Sang Are
you listening to this? Are you Barry Pollock's uh sounder
daughter for relative or maybe coworker or any of the
above for Jennifer Robinson Osange is London based attorney. Yes,
(47:13):
get right to us. Let us know. You can find
us on Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show. Where are
you guys on Instagram? I'm at Embryonic Insider for now,
I am at Ben Bowling and Matt you're at uh,
you're at Sandwich King right, yes, Sandwich Kings with a z.
Oh that's right, that's right, that's right. Sure, that's me. Yeah. Uh.
(47:37):
If you don't want to do that, you can find
us on Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff or Facebook conspiracy stuff.
You can look at our Facebook page called Here's where
it gets Crazy. Yeah, it's a lot of fun conversation
and memory and discussions. We have usually have a post
for every episode where you can kind of keep the
discussion in that field so it doesn't get out of control. Um.
All you gotta do to become a member of that
(47:58):
is name one of our names, just one, I think,
just one, or make us chuck or yeah exactly. We
save screenshots of a lot of those, and the good
ones are quite good and you will get in with
just a very clever nod. Just mentioned Badgers somewhere, oh boy, yeah,
oh yes, and Matt, what do people do if the
(48:19):
social meads are just not for them, and then it's
not their their bag badgers. Well put those social meds down,
because we have something that your phone can do. No,
it's not browsing the internet. No, it's not post Instagram things.
It can be a dumb phone. You can literally make
a phone call to us. You can leave a message,
(48:40):
give us a call. We are one eight three three
st d w y t K. Have you noticed that's
becoming affront to call people like? People just are like,
they just don't they're not about it. What is this?
What is this thing that's happening to my phone right
now as it's buzzing a numbers coming up? Throw it
out the window, come up with fire. Have a shortlist?
I think I have a shortlist of people for whom
(49:01):
I will answer the phone. It's I think it's egregious.
I think it's intrusional privacy. I gotten a little bit
of tiff with our pals over at the Daily Zeitgeist
about it, because I told him I thought phone calls
were generally overrated. It's real, friends, text I'll die on
this hill. Well I won't die on that hill, but
I will disagree with you. Sir, because that's my one
(49:23):
of my favorite ways of communicating. I also like a
good phone call catch up from time to time, but
I do not like a quick phone call that could
be accomplished with a text. I think it's like a
good old friend catch up or like that's nice to
do over the phone, that personal touch. But if it's
a business thing or like a quick thing, I don't
like it when you call me all right, don't call
(49:44):
me a definitely call hey, hey, sorry, Paul, call our
number because we we love hearing these amazing messages and
we use them in episodes as well. Yeah, and if
you get a weird phone call from a four or
four or seven seven zero or six seven eight, depending
on which randomized phone number I'm using, it's probably me
because I'm calling you back because I really enjoy doing that.
(50:07):
You're also a great person. I just want to know.
I just don't don't listen to him, but I really
enjoy calling you. Who people, anyone out there who is
listening and has like taken the time to leave us
a voicemail. Oh yeah. It's just really cool to know
there are other humans out there and it's not just
us in a box. I'm going to take a page
from the book of Matt and maybe I'll call a
(50:27):
couple of you to do it. Matt, you're one of
the last great conversationalists. Sir, I tipped my hat to you, America.
And if that is your inspiration and you have a
story that you feel we are more importantly, your fellow
listeners will immensely enjoy or just something that they should know.
(50:49):
Uh please, please don't let don't let social media be
an obstacle. If you don't care for phones, don't let
that be an obstacle. You can contact us directly right now.
All you have to do is send us a good
old an email. We are conspiracy at i heeart radio
dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is
(51:23):
a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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