Critics allege the rehabilitative program known as Narconon is a front for Scientology. Masons chime in to confirm that yes, you can get kicked out of the Masons. The disappearance of former cruise line worker Rebecca Coriam remains unsolved to this day. All this and more in this week's listener mail.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Nolan. They call
me Ben. We are joined as always with our super
producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you
are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. This is our listener
mail segments. So every week we find at least three
(00:47):
pieces of correspondence from the most important part of this show,
your fellow listeners. We've got some, We've got some doozies
here today, and as we've said in the past, we
get this massive amount of correspondence via email, via social accounts,
via our good old telephone number one eight three three
(01:09):
st d W y t K and Matt. I believe
that our our first piece of listener mail to day
is in fact a message, right it is. It's a
message from Atlanta, and let's just play it. Um Hi guys, um,
I'm wanna and I was listening to hear last or
one of your latest listener mails, and you were talking
(01:31):
about the cruise industry, and I was making a really
interesting thing to look into for your listeners and to
bring awareness to it's the disappearance of Rebecca COLOREUM. She
disappeared in UM from a cruise ship which are has
since been realized to sort of use palpable hugs of
human trafficking. And I think that aspect of cruise ships
(01:56):
and stuff could make for an really interesting, cool episode
thanks to what the show by and there we go.
We we have been talking about cruises quite a bit
in the recent past. I think our interest was first
peaked when we were just learning about UM, the the trap,
(02:17):
the viral in infectious trap that a cruise ship can
become when out at sea and just a single infected
person gets on board UM. And you know it then
became I guess, our interest in what the industry overall
has been doing for many years about law when you're
on international waters UM and just some of some of
(02:40):
the industries UM regular habits about how they keep costs
down UM really interesting stuff. But we have not talked
specifically about any disappearances. I don't think, Ben, unless I'm wrong.
We talked in the asked about. We've explored some cases
(03:03):
of people who went missing in international waters while not
necessarily on a cruise ship. But just like that episode
of Always Sunny in Philadelphia, you know, the the rules
are different on the high seas, and I really love
that you pointed that out. We have not talked about
Rebecca Quarium, who disappeared in March of two thousand eleven
(03:26):
March twenty. She was a crew member on a ship
called the Disney Wonder. And I do think that this
could warrant a a full episode because it already has
some of the commonalities we've seen in other controversial missing cases. Uh.
Number one, there are a lot of theories. Number two,
(03:47):
there's a lot of valid criticism of the subsequent investigation. Then,
of course we have to realize that without having done
the kind of research would need to do to make
a full episode this, we have to realize that this
gets very close to us messing with the Big Mouse
Disney Disney Wonder, that's Big Mickey, that's the Big Mickey
(04:08):
mob Man. The Mouse will come for you. It reminds
me of that show Succession that was on HBO, not
The Big Scandal. No spoilers but yeah, it's a thing.
Well there. Yeah, there's a massive corporation that has an
arm that is essentially their cruise line arm of their company,
and you can only imagine that this would be a
(04:28):
public relations nightmare. UM, So I would say the company
that owns this cruise liner where something may or may
not have happened, would have an incentive to keep it
as quiet as possible or as needed to be for
the investigation to continue along. I'm assuming I'm assuming others
(04:50):
maybe looking on at what's occurring here, what occurred, how
the investigation moved forward with a more skeptical eye when
it comes to the actions of the company. Um, there
is a lot to cover in this topic. I would
say there's a there's a pretty extensive timeline that begins
(05:10):
around five am on March that you were talking about
their ben which was a Tuesday that it actually saw
Rebecca on the phone. It's a CCTV camera just you
can watch her being upset, having an argument of some kind,
or being just looking like she is upset by what
is being said on that phone call. And then she
(05:33):
ended up not showing up for work, not not showing
up for her post the next morning, and that was
that she's been gone ever since, and people have gone
overboard in the past. But here's the thing to set
the stage right. The most likely, the most likely disappearance
with someone on the ocean in a boat is going
(05:54):
to be somehow that person going overboard. Uh, the seas
were calm Uh. There there are tons of discrepancies here too.
Just for anyone who's not familiar with the case. You
quickly find weird stuff like there were flip flops in
a room that were the wrong size. That doesn't prove anything,
but it's weird. It doesn't seem like you would have
(06:14):
committed suicide. But we don't know what's on that phone call. Uh,
we do know that people have not been happy with it.
One other screwy thing is jurisdiction, right, because I think
this ship is flagged in the Bahamas, correct, So the
initial law enforcement has to be carried out by law
(06:34):
enforcement in the Bahamas. Yeah. Where does the human trafficking
angle come in? The human trail? Oh? What where our
color m Atlanta was talking about cruise lines potentially being
a source of human trafficking, and you know, I do
not currently have the raw data for that or the
(06:57):
evidence to support that claim. But any time you've got
a massive ship that is traveling around through international waters
to to other countries, and there are people boarding the ship,
there are people getting off the ship. Um, there's certainly
opportunity right now that makes sense. Well, yeah, consider, I
(07:18):
mean consider the employment practices can become so sticky when
you are hiring people from one country to work on
a ship of a different country to go into international waters.
And as you said, Matt, make many stops along the way,
it's not impossible for things to go awry. Like this
(07:39):
is the transportation sector, right It's the entertainment sector, sure,
but it's also the transit sector. And the transit sector
is rife with opportunity for traffickers, like uh, sex trafficking
maybe in the way that you might see it occur
in Las Vegas, like the to put a fine point
on it, Uh, the John's are the people who think
(08:03):
they're engaging in some kind of consensual sex work, maybe
actually involved with someone who is being forced or core
coerced to be there. But I do want to point out,
without too much of a spoiler, I think it wasn't
too long ago that Rebecca Quarium's girlfriend at the time
(08:23):
said that she said that, in her opinion, Rebecca took
a lot of drugs and then maybe deliberately leaped off
the boat. But that's still like not officially proven, right
yeah there, yeah, yeah, not at all. Um. You really
have to look at her parents who have been fighting
(08:44):
battles in and out of court since March of with
with both Disney Cruise Line, with the Disney Company I
guess and their their cruise line arm as well as
just attempting to find out more information from the various
investigators that have been working on the case. UM. I
don't want to spoil too much here, but as of
(09:06):
twixten the the company did settle with the the family.
Uh yeah, so so there was money paid. I I
don't I highly doubt that any wrongdoing was you know,
was admitted. There no no admission of guilt. That's that's
(09:30):
a settlement. Is also you know, it's not necessarily a
sketchy thing. Again, I think now we're all being careful
because we do want a full episode and we don't
want to spoil it, but but to be very very transparent. Um,
when a corporation or even a celebrity, for instance, reaches
an out of court settlements, then what they're doing is
(09:54):
they're they're paying the person off, paying the the aggrieved
party off, but they're doing it outside of court, meaning
there is no legal admission of guilt and the case
will be considered settled and no further legal proceedings will occur,
at least in that in that specific instance, you know
(10:16):
what I mean, Like we see criminal cases get go
to mistrial or get dismissed and then a civil case
is successful. So there, what's also like, not without precedent,
the idea of people disappearing from cruise ships. I just
found like a market Watch article from two thousand seventeen UM,
so the stats will be a little higher by now.
But since two thousand, according to this article, around three
(10:38):
hundred people have gone overboard from cruise ships and ferries um.
And that's according to data collected by Ross Klein, as
professor in the School of Social Work at Memorial University
of Newfoundland and Canada. And of those folks, like, there
are you know several many that are still still missing,
presumed dead. So it's you know, it's a thing that happened.
(11:00):
People drink a lot on cruise ships, and they can
just topple overboard of their own volition, I guess, but
you know, on their own doesn't necessarily mean that there's
foul play. And I was wondering too, like do cruise
ships ever like piggyback and carry cargo as well? And
apparently that's not really a thing. So I'm wondering, like
where on the ship would human trafficking, you know, victims
(11:23):
be held. I mean, I'm assuming, of course there's gonna
be internal cargo for the things that they need to
make all the meals and you know, whatever else services
are provided on on the cruise ship. But I'd be
interested to see what the stats are for, you know,
proving that human trafficking takes place on you know, commercial
cruise lines. It's tough. I mean, it's it's it's a
(11:45):
tough stat to pull in an accurate way because to
your question, many of the to your first question, many
of those human trafficking victims are in some cases gonna
look like any other, uh, any other passenger. That's a
good point. They're being controlled by, you know, their their
main abuser or trafficker who is putting them up um
(12:09):
under any number of ruses and The truth about the
matter is if you are if you are a company
operating ships that take hundreds and hundreds of people on
a boat regularly, you are going to have a difficult
time giving each single individual a background check other than
(12:29):
making sure that their credit card works and that they
uh that they can legally travel to whatever country you're
taking them too. So it's it's tough. It's tough, and
it's it's a problem that we know. Um, it's a
problem that we know the industry has taken steps to address,
(12:49):
but it's a it's a herculean effort. Uh. On a
brighter note, I I know I mentioned this, like every
two or three years, if you want to travel across
the ocean and you don't want to go out and
cruise ship, and you're flexible with your time, you can
get a really affordable ticket on a cargo ship and
it'll just be like you and the crew people maybe
(13:13):
two other people who love unorthodox travel and uh maybe
maybe you'll work on that novel, who knows, uh, but
you you have to bake in like to to two
to six weeks of flexibility on either side. Yikes. I
imagine just getting like, for whatever reason, getting stuck outside
(13:36):
in a bay somewhere in this giant cargo ship because
you're not allowed to dock yet, and there's some kind
of trade dispute occurring, and you just then you just
live there on a cargo ship. That's your life now,
which would be great if guys, if we could record
on the cargo ship, that would be pretty neat. I'm
still working that out. There's some technical difficulties. Well, Ben,
(13:59):
I mean you'll recall and not the two distant past,
we were recording pretty regularly in what felt like a
shipping container, so we'd be perfectly at home, uh in
such a situation. I mean, I'm in that now, actually
doing it. Guys. This isn't hours though I am on
(14:19):
a cargo ship. Don't be mad at me. I thought
you would say, I thought, do I tell you what
I was on the boat? I thought you might say, no,
I was wondering what that sloshing sound. I was, yeah, Well,
I just wo Just to bring it back to Rebecca Quarnium,
you guys, and without spoiling too much, I think this
should be an episode that we cover in the future.
(14:40):
And this is what I want to leave you with.
This is from a Hollywood Reporter article that is discussing
the I guess the result of the court case that
went through UM. This is a quote from Jim Walker,
a Miami based attorney who represented aquariums in the United
(15:01):
States throughout this case. He says, the case has been resolved.
They're pursuing an inquest in the UK, but I'm not
supposed to talk about the case. So that's interesting right
now Here Here is another quote, this one from British
parliamentarian at least in Chris Matheson. Here's his quote. My
(15:24):
worst fear is that Rebecca Quarium was murdered. It's a
possibility and it needs to be investigated properly. The more
you look into this, the more it smells rotten, the
more it smells like a crime has taken place. So
UM terrible, like absolutely horrifying and terrible for the Koium
family and for Rebecca Chorium herself. However, for you know,
(15:48):
the possibilities here of uncovering something that we can really
dig into, that we can talk about on this show
and maybe expose some stuff going on and problems, like
you're speaking to knowl It feels like this topic is
right before it so I'm excited to dig in more.
Thank you so much Lanta for calling and letting us
know about this. Yes, great, thank you, and thank you
(16:10):
to everybody who's written in response to our our earlier
exploration of cruise ships. There's there's a lot beneath the
surface there, you know. Um, we can't wait to dig in.
And one of the one of the most amazing things
here is is just how much firsthand experience we've been
learning about in your correspondencies with us. Uh, we're getting
(16:35):
an inside peak and we want to We want to
go further down the rabbit hole, as is our want.
Speaking of inside peaks, we also we received a number
of correspondencies from people who reached out. I had no
idea this many people would talk to us about this,
people who reached out to tell us how you can,
(16:57):
in fact get booted from one of our favorite secret societies.
We'll tell you more about this after a quick word
from our sponsors and we're back. Uh. Yeah, So the
question has arisen, Will where where did this come up?
(17:18):
Fellas the idea of getting booted from the Mason's Do
you remember how that came about? Wasn't that on a
news episode or what was That's Garrison Courtney, who was
pretending to be a deep cover ci apy and built
built a bunch of high ranking government officials out of millions.
He got close. The people he called were so important
(17:38):
that he got close to signing some multibillion dollar contracts,
which would have also given him full legal immunity. At
one point, he claimed to be hooking someone up in
contact with an ambassador that he said he knew through
the Freemasons. When the marketing question finally spoke to said ambassador,
(18:00):
it turned out that the only thing that ambassador knew
was that this con man, Garrison Courtney, had been kicked
out of the Mason's uh. And I think that's where
the three of us started asking ourselves, Well, the four
of us started asking ourselves, how do how do you
get kicked out of the Masons. I think it's interesting question,
and also the way it occurred to us as interesting
(18:22):
because because of the paths that we, uh, we sort
of follow with some of these stories. You know, secret
societies have a certain air of sinisterness to them, and
I think it's certainly possible to ascribe that same thing
to the Freemasons. But at the end of the day.
There's a lot of information out there about the Freemasons,
and you know, anyone can be nominated to be a member,
(18:44):
and you can even go to your local chapter and
petition to to be a member. We'll talk about that
in a second, but, uh, the idea that you know,
somehow Masons are these like high level you know, evil types,
are criminal masterminds or something. At least that's where my
mind goes, like, how do you get kicked out of
(19:04):
an organization that's already pure evil? But that's definitely not
the case. The Masons do a lot of good work
for the community, as we know, like the Shriners. There's
an off shoot of the Mason's sponsor all of these
children's hospitals, and you know, you could argue it's just
a front for all of their nefarious underground dealings, but
you know, it's it's an interesting thing to think about.
(19:24):
And it's also a very long tradition of Freemasonry, as
we know, and there's certainly been some shadowy figures that
have been connected to it over the years, but also
some very prominent and uh and upstanding figures might have
been connected to it, one of which I would argue
is our anonymous email email or um. He even doesn't
(19:45):
even give a name. He just has a very clandestine
email address using letters and numbers that I don't know
what it necessarily is pointing to, if it's initials or weapons.
Quite a lot of numbers. But he has this to
say about the question. Uh at end here, Hi, guys,
I was in the Freemasons for just over five years,
and in that time I climbed offices in the Blue
(20:06):
Lodge as well as obtained the rank of Nights templar
okay in the York Right, as well as the thirty
second degree in the Scottish Rite. The quickest way to
get booted out was by being convicted of a crime.
Falons aren't allowed in and getting one will put you out.
Misdemeanors are hidden miss demeanors, that's mine largely depending on
(20:33):
who you know. You can be ejected for non payment
of dues. That was a question that came up, but
I've never known that to happen. There were guys that
hadn't paid for years. Generally, anything over a year past
duo will mean you're getting letters. I never had access
to the quote upper Echelon's but I did know people
who were from my time in It all seems like
(20:55):
traditional frat things. The main secret is the secrecy and
elitism itself. Any other secrets are handshakes, code words, and
ritual things. I think, repeating phrases, acting out scenes, things
like that no one would really care about. If you
attend a public session that is held once a year
in most places, you will witness what happens at even
(21:18):
the highest levels really interesting information. UM, I wouldn't be
surprised if small cliques form within the lodge who may
get into things that the public wouldn't like. But I
think you could say this for any group of considerable size.
I'm willing to answer any questions the best of my ability. Anonymous,
(21:38):
Hey check this out. Wait, wait, let me get it's
all frame. But do you guys remember this one? Yeah?
For the Yeah there it is one of the YouTube crowd.
Is there no help for the widow's son? Uh? But
I don't feel like we're compromising any any Masonic organizations
(22:01):
in the crowd by saying that this is the age
of the internet. Well, and neither it is our anonymous emailer.
He seems to think that anybody going to one of
these public gatherings would would witness a lot of the
same stuff. And then maybe it's not as hush hush
as one might think. Um, and that the ritualism of
the organization is the notion of this secrecy, but it's
(22:22):
maybe not as ironclad as one might think. Did no,
did you see that we got an We got another
email really recently about this. I just want to read
just this title other one from from another current Mason.
This person says, sometimes a brother will decide that he
is no longer interested in being involved, maybe he learned
that we don't control the world, or he's sick of
(22:45):
eating green beans at dinner. When he can then issue
him what is called a dem it, which is a
letter stating that he left of his own accord and
there are no claims against him. It's like an honorable discharge,
is what this person. Yeah, this idea of like what
what amounts to an amicable breakup is is pretty refreshing.
(23:07):
That's that's a good thing that a lot of more
secretive organizations don't really have. I also want to shout
out someone who who wrote a great letter to us
about this from from Maine. UH and some of our
our personal contacts who have been involved in freemasonry, who
(23:27):
have talked to us about it. Um. The point that
you make, Anonymous that I really appreciate it. I think
we all appreciated, was that the idea of collusion and
conspiracy is likely to form in groups of any size,
and it is likely to be the result of a
small clique or faction within a larger community working towards
(23:52):
their own ends, and the larger community may know nothing
about this. Like uh, like think about this. Think about
a small town corruption rampant in America historically, right, there's
there's gonna be there's gonna be a mob in you know, uh,
some equivalent of a mob in three Toe, Arkansas, just
(24:13):
as much as in Chicago or New York City. They
might just not be Italian, they might not call themselves
a mob, but the sheriff and the mayor and whomever
probably run the town. So with that in mind, and
these smaller communities especially, it's completely possible that they would
all happen to be members of the same social network,
whether that's the Rotarians or the Lions Club or yes,
(24:36):
the Freemasons, And then would they meet at the Lions Club?
Was like at the Toastmasters or whatever at the Freemasons
uh lodge, they're able to meet under the cover of
that organization, and then they just gotta go to another
room have a little what we would call a breakout session,
and they're like, Okay, how how are we going to
(24:56):
fix this election? You know what I mean. It's the
same thing we talked about with all these secret societies,
Like we we had this conversation with with John Hodgman.
If I'm not mistaken about the book and Snake, Uh
secret society at Harvard or where was it? Where where
is that organ Yale? That's right, and that's sort of
the deal is at any of these there's going to
(25:18):
be an opportunity to mingle with high level people with
which you could potentially collude if both so on into
doing so um and uh. But it doesn't mean necessarily
the entire organization is inherently corrupt or based on overthrowing
the you know, the status quo in some former fashion. Yeah,
(25:38):
we've also learned is that you don't need a secret
society for any of that. You just need. All you
need is a country club that's exactly own a giant
country club somewhere near Boca Raton. Maybe I don't know,
you go to Boca or I don't know. It could
be in in the heart of Atlanta, could be anywhere. Really,
(25:59):
just oh and operate a country like right. I've got
to say too to anonymous and to the other folks
who have written in to give us some excellent information
about freemasonry, which which I greatly appreciate. Um. My immediate
question now and it was so hard not to email
(26:19):
everybody about this is Uh. There's a line you read
from our anonymous are anonymous listener Noel where it's like,
misdemeanors are hit and miss or as you said, misdemeanor. Yeah,
and largely it depends on nepotism, right, the end result
of whether or not one can stay with the organization.
(26:40):
That's fine. A lot of these organizations do operate primarily
on nepotism. As a matter of fact, I would say
nepotism is one of the number one things holding the
species back overall. Unfortunately, meritocracy is too often a myth,
but nepotism aside. I wonder what the misdemeanors are are
the misdemeanors solely of moral aptitude, as you'll hear sometimes
(27:02):
on a customs form or like, I would love if
there was, for some reason something incredibly specific and something
that seemed relatively meaningless or innocuous to us non Masons
on the outside. And I wonder if that's like the
number one crime in freemasonry. I hope to God it's
stamp fraud for some reason. They're like the one thing
(27:24):
that will you know, sometimes you hit people with a
car and sometimes they die. That's an accident. Accidents happen.
But if you make fake stamps, perhaps perhaps coin forgery, Yes,
that would be another good, real specific way poins are
fitter exactly. I love that I've seen. I've seen the
(27:45):
signs at all the gas stations. Don't ask for a
coin change. Um. I did find an article written by
a Mason master Mason by the name of Matthew Arnold
McIntosh on a website called w V. Mason's dot org,
and the headline as high Moral Standards of Freemasons. And
he goes through and kind of writes a treatise about
how at its heart the whole purpose of freemasonry is
(28:08):
to impart this high moral standard on its members. Um.
And then I was sort of like, Okay, how how
do I become a Mason? Didn't take long to find
a website that that gives you kind of a step
by step in the how to do so? It's Masonic
Dash Lodge, Dash of Dash Education dot com and UH.
It reads almost like an old timey pamphlet Become a Freemason?
(28:30):
Would you like to become a Freemason and belong to
the oldest and largest fraternity in the world? He has
how Uh You must first find a Masonic Lodge location
near you, contact them and ask for a petition to
join uh. And then if you become a Freemason, you
will This is like serious selling points. Join both the
oldest and largest fraternity in the world. Join a brotherhood
(28:51):
of over two million men of all ages, from all races,
religions and countries, and from all walks of life. Uh.
And then it has some pictures of some real cool
UH signet rings that you get. I guess when you
become a member? UM? Why do so many men want
to become a Freemason? And it describes the organization as
a voluntary fraternal organization composed of men of goodwill, good character,
(29:14):
and good reputation whom in most jurisdictions around the world,
believe in an almighty creator and practice the spirit of
universal brotherhood to man. A lot of man talk in
this though. Yeah, that's one of the big things. Yeah,
we need to we need to get in front of
that before someone's writing to us about this. So earlier,
(29:34):
I think one of us said, anybody can get in.
I know some of us are writing emails about that
right now. Don't worry. Pause pause your email. Uh, yes,
it's only dudes. There are associated organizations that are not
entirely just dudes, but that is that is one great
discrimination of of the masodic orders. I think also as
(29:58):
you as you mentioned earlier in old uh one need
not have a specific religion, but must have some sort
of belief in spiritual Yes, exactly. And then just just
to wrap this up, just wanted to I've got this
giant alphabetical list and I'm gonna kind of just skip
around a little bit. But uh, just some some high
(30:19):
you know, highly influential and uh big deal folks who
who were Mason's and we know this Abbott Bud uh Bud.
William Abbott of Abbott and Costello fame was a Mason
Um buzz Aldrin. It was, in fact a Mason, the
second man to walk on the moon. Let's see, we've
(30:39):
got Gerald Ford, who was a president. We know Henry Ford,
automobile pioneer, of course. Let's see. Just you, you, just you.
You throw a pin at this list and you're gonna
find somebody influential. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints a k a.
The Mormons. Isn't that interesting? I do love the idea.
(31:00):
This is infascinating to me, and I think we've already
kind of expressed why this is. But it's interesting. I
think of Masonry as being all about these clandestine kind
of rights and um, you know, rituals, and to me,
that would kind of fly on the face of being
a Christian or someone who's very closely identifies with you know.
(31:20):
But no, that's not the case. They can they their
hand in hand, and one doesn't necessarily require the other.
We talked about that, right. One of the only things
you have to have is a belief in a higher power,
and it does not matter what that higher power is
in your mind, as long as you believe that there
is one. However, Freemasons have been enemies of UM, have
(31:41):
been enemies of dogmatic, oppressive religions uh, and in the
past have been enemies of oppressive governments. I mean, look
at look at the French Revolution, look at how many
founding fathers of the United States were affiliated with Freemasonry.
It's it's kind of a there's something collegiate and salon
like about it, the idea of the free exchange of
(32:04):
concepts and being able to say, well, you know, I
I'm not on board with this whole Catholicism thing and
not go to church jail or whatever lose I like that.
Well that's what they call it. You know. It's one
of many Enlightenment organizations like the Rosa Crucians or the
(32:27):
you know, UM, there's many very what do we talk
about the Order of the Pug Remember that one the
pug one from ridiculous history or he kissed the Pugs
butts That was a French Wasn't that a French backlash
against freemac Like Freemasonry was outlawed in France, and so
they made this other organization. U Voltaire was a Freemason UM,
(32:50):
a very influential and French philosopher who wrote about oppressive
governments and oppressive systems. So uh, interesting stuff, guys, um
But yeah, I think that that does it for this one.
Did you know George Clinton was a Freemason of Parliament
funkadelic No, the third Vice President of the United States?
(33:10):
Who am I thinking out? I just did it because
I knew you would think about that, George Clinton. Sorry,
I want to he's he's a Mason of Funk. That's
I mean. I think a lot I think a lot
of people would, um well, would agree that there there's
tangible benefit uh to these organizations, both for the individuals
(33:33):
involved and for often for the communities right in which
those uh those lodges exist, like to the point about
the Shriners and funding medical care for for the medium
for children. I think I think they get vilified sometimes,
like we never did an episode on the Anti Masonic Party,
which confirms my standing theory that if you want, uh,
(33:57):
if you want something like that, like a political part
or religion, to be successful, you have to be aspirational
and offering something. You can't found a party just against something.
What do you do when that's god? You know what
I mean? Like no war, Polar Bears, club. The Polar
Bears are extinct. Uh, but we already spent all this
(34:19):
money on the on the chips and dip in the catering.
So we're still going to get together. Wow, that's really
that's really great. But example, but this is this is
something relevant at some point everybody listening right now we're
watching this, go out find a list of the former
(34:40):
Supreme Court justices within the United States that were or
are members of Free and Accepted Mason's. It's just interesting
to see, Like, when it comes to law and politics,
Ben as you as you noted earlier, a lot of
people who are in government are are a part of
(35:00):
this organization. Would I be correct in assuming that many
of them who were Freemasons would be more on the
progressive tip than conservative or is there really not much
of a line there? It's not much of a line. Honestly.
It's tough because the definition of what is or is
not considered conservative or progressive has changed so much over
(35:24):
just a few centuries, you know, Like, of course, we're
not that far away from the time when um women
voting was considered to be like this radical, extreme idea.
What's next, We're gonna blow up the moon and then later,
you know a few decades ago we thought about doing
just that. Well, the most important former Freemason to me
(35:46):
is is clearly Robert Pershing Wadlow, the tallest human on record, um,
who I believe was the guy that that you you'll
see a sculpture of outside most Ripley's, believe it or not,
locations the world over. And I think Handsome Family as
a as a beautiful heartbreaking song about him. I did
not know he was a Mason, but it makes sense also, Matt,
(36:07):
I'm sorry, I don't want to keep us going too
long on this, but to the point you raise about
the justices, I would ask, is it possible that people
at the higher levels of government or maybe higher levels
of business as well, just tend to do more extracurricular activities?
You know? Are they also like uh yeah, are they
(36:31):
like big in their h o A. Do they go
get like public notary certification because they just like the certificate?
I mean? Are they members of toastmasters as well? Rotarians?
Probably philanthropic organizations? Yeah, yeah, the whole nine, all the
good ones. It certainly is encouraged. You know, when you're
(36:51):
in school, I gotta get those extra curriculous up to
get into a good college. Well, it makes sense, but
we we're talking about the differences in our geologies within
within members of freemasony. Think about this. The first director
of the FBI, j Edgar Hoover, the guy who called
Martin Luther King Jr. I think I can't tell you
(37:11):
the exact quote, but the most dangerous man essentially within
the United States at one point in time. Um, the
person who instituted co intel pro and spying on people
who were attempting to capture their civil liberties in equality.
That guy was a freemason. Also, Uh, someone who was
(37:32):
on the other side fighting for civil rights, Reverend Jesse
Jackson was a freemason or is. It's just really interesting
to me that you can have this wide swath of
belief in things that you would fight for and the
(37:52):
presidents skull and bones. Think about that. No, that's a
good point. Also like strong thermendos and notoriously, Uh, Dixie
kratt Um the Republican senator who from from the state
of Georgia. If I'm not mistaken, I hope he's a
bad guy, bad bad guy. Um. Last one, and then
(38:13):
we definitely moved on. But there's a lot of interesting
names here to talk about. Is uh this is decided
was not aware of this? Just as like a little
bit of trivia. Uh, William Howard Taft who was not
only the President of the United States but also held
the position of Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court,
and he's the only man ever to have headed up
these two uh, two branches of US government. Only president
(38:37):
to be stuck in a bathtub as well as true
and just as a counterpoint, you know who else, Richard
pryor H Well, we'll we'll pause here. Uh. Please keep
writing to us with your inside experiences with uh, with
the Freemasons. We would love to hear about your time
(38:59):
in a Masonic order, whatever you're comfortable sharing with us.
Most importantly, let us know if for some reason it
needs to be anonymous. Let us know about pointer fitters,
and uh, let let us know about what the miss
what the like, what the red line misdemeanors are? You know?
And uh, how late can our library books be? Etcetera.
But if you want to learn a little bit more,
(39:19):
do check out our past episodes. Check out our YouTube
channel YouTube dot com slash Conspiracy Stuff, where we also
explore things like Albert Pike and a couple of other
things will be of interest to people who want to
learn more about Masonic history. And shout out to in
support Lodge, also Blue Lodge for life the Blue Lodge,
(39:43):
because that just makes me think of Twin Peaks. And
we are back to examine what is sometimes called a
life stage an organization and sometimes called a branch of
(40:06):
rather secretive. I'll just say it's Scientology. Okay, we've got this.
We've got an email. I've got an email from Cliff Sea.
I want to give this to everybody and then we'll
we'll follow up on it. Okay, so Cliff, you said hello.
Back in two thousand twelve, I went through a nark
An addiction program in the mountains of southern California. Scientology
(40:30):
uses these programs to recruit people at their lowest and
most vulnerable points. The entire program is based on teachings
by Hubbard, by which means l Ron Hubbard, the founder
of first Dianetics, and then when he got sued, the
founder of Scientology. This is a topic worth diving into,
says Cliff. But as I don't know if you will
read this, I'll just give you bullet points for now
(40:52):
in a list these, and they're fairly brutal. One, they
lock you in a cabin in the desert, telling you
that you may leave, but they will follow you with
water and only give it to you if you come back.
They will not call your family or help during the
first month. If you decide to wander off into the
desert too, they say they have medical staff. This is
(41:12):
staff they have trained and ordained as doctors and nurses. Next,
they force you to sit silently staring into another person's
eyes for five hours without movement, and then continue for
five more hours with your eyes closed. If you flinch
or start to doze off, you start again. If you
question scientology, they move you to isolation until you promise
(41:33):
to stop. They charge families tens of thousands of dollars,
constantly asked for more money, and say that we don't
actually do scientology here. They monitor your phone calls under threats,
so you cannot say otherwise, and then Cliff concludes. As
with most rehab programs, they want you to take responsibility
(41:55):
for your actions, but they blatantly take advantage of this
to make you feel like a You are low life,
and they scientology are the only solution. Having said all this,
says Cliff, it probably does help some people, but in
my honest and clean for many years not thanks to
them opinion. They scare people away from rehabilitation and make
(42:15):
folks think it is a form of prison. I know
this is something that maybe we have heard about before,
but I don't know if we've talked about Narconon on
the air with each other. Have we? We haven't have
we I can't remember a time unless it was No.
I don't think our drugs in the military would have
covered it, or our hallucinogens in medical research. No. I
(42:39):
think this might be the first. Yeah. So it's weird
because both the Church of Scientology and Narconons say that
it's a secular program. It's completely independent of the religious
teachings of Scientology. But it seems like many people, many
people are disillusioned with Narconon or have family members who
(43:00):
have gone through that program. They they argue the opposite.
They say it's a front group for Scientology with the
ultimate name of recruiting people. What do you guys think
about that? Well, is it actually in any way associated
with Scientology? Yes, it is. Yeah, it is like officially
as an Organizationally, it's parent company is something called the
(43:24):
Association for Better Living and Education Way for Able and
Able is owned and controlled by the Church of Scientology.
So it's like a subsidiary of a subsidiary, which means
they could argue, you know, of course that we exist
independent of that. We just have our our roots there. Yeah,
if you go to scientology dot org, they have a
(43:46):
whole section on drug rehabilitation and prevention. And that's the
thing that's that's what makes Scientology a bit you know, insidious,
is they they they appeal to people at their lowest
either professionally or they're trying to get a foothole. I
moved to Hollywood and you know, they're trying to like
become an actor or a screenwriter or whatever. And that's
the story you always here. But this is even more predatory,
(44:08):
whereas people that are truly at their lowest points and
perhaps come from wealthy families or are able to pay
the money that it tastes because rehab ain't cheap. UM.
I always assumed Narconon was like Alanon, and then it
was just another type of meeting that you go to UM.
And then it was like a family situation that it
(44:29):
wasn't like rehab exactly. But this is really news to me.
Alanon um Alcoholics Anonymous rather, I'm sorry that's different too,
But yeah, yeah, Alanon's separate from Alcoholics Anonymous, but I
think it was UM. I don't think they're in co
hoots or in uh conflict with one another. And I
(44:51):
think Narconon So Alanon's founded in nineteen fifty one, right,
Narconon was founded in nineteen sixties six, So without sounding conspiratorial,
is it possible that Hubbard made a similar name, you know,
on purpose as a marketing or brand recognition thing. And
(45:13):
the more I've read about Narconon, the more I see
problems with just their treatment. In an official for the
Church of Scientology said that Narconon's rehabilitation programs are based
entirely on the tenants and teachings of scientology. And you
know what that means, no psychotherapists, psychologists. Yeah, that's something
(45:37):
that I wish you would have gotten into with UM
with Mike on that so we didn't really talk about
the aversion to psychologists and and and psychiatry. And I
could probably guess why it is because it gives you
agency over people gas lighting you, and and the tools
to cope with abusers. Yeah, that's just my two sets.
(46:00):
Someone why that might be. Of course, there's there's there's
a whole mythology wrapped up in it within the teachings
of scientology. It's fascinating stuff. I had no idea about
this connection though, Like with Narconon and scientology zero oh yeah, yeah.
If you look at their website, I was just I
went to narconon dot org and I was looking around
trying to find something that says scientology on it on
(46:23):
their main page. I did a quick little apple F
for scientology and you know where I found it? Nowhere.
It's not on there. It's not on that front page.
It does not say scientology anywhere, at least in something
that is searchable, And I can't find it anywhere in
like an image or something, you know, maybe just be
(46:44):
invented in an image. But if you go all the
way to the bottom under our history, our technology, and
you go to about Narconon, then you do a little
apple F for scientology. There, you know what you find,
zero identifiable mentions of scientology. But if you go all
(47:06):
the way down again underneath there's a subheading under about
Narconon Global Mission fifty years saving lives blah blah blah
blah blah blah. Oh here it is l Ron Hubbard. Uh,
there we go. There, we got them talk about talk
about the stuff they don't want you to know, right'.
(47:28):
I've wanted to do, you know, peep behind the curtain.
I wanted to do for a number of years an
episode on problems with rehabilitation programs throughout history and Arknon
has been in my like on my radar for a while.
But it's tricky because we want to make sure that
we're not first off, we're not giving people medical advice
(47:51):
or legal advice, and secondly that we're not like, I
don't want us to do anything that would stop someone
who needs help. I'm going to a rehabilitation center. You know,
that's that's such an important thing. But also, you know
the thing about Narconon, Like, here's one of the weirdest
things about them in terms of their treatment. Have you
guys heard of nias like nias and bombs. This is
(48:16):
where some of that comes from. M Yeah, there would
dose somebody with four thousand milligrams a day of niacin uh,
and this is meant to This is like part of
a vitamin mineral supplement regimen that is supposed to address
(48:37):
pre existing nutritional deficiencies, uh and help help you offset
nutrient loss through sweating. But the niacin thing goes back
to Hubbard because he believed niason would increase. I think
it's free fatty acid and um, like the mobilization of
free fatty acid. And then it will help you get
(49:01):
rid of toxins. So so they would, uh, they would
dose you up with these massive amounts of nias and
and niacin. Like any other particular substance, it's got a
diminishing return, you know what I mean. If you have
too much niacin, it can be dangerous for you. I've
(49:23):
heard people talk about using niacin to like spoof a
P test, you know, for drugs. Don't know, I don't
know if that actually works or not, but it you know,
in the same way that you're talking about the idea
that it I think what it does is it like
causes you to sweat like crazy and causes like the
capillaries on your skin to sort of expand and you
get really red. Um. That's my understanding. It's it's interesting,
(49:46):
though I don't know if it actually works or not.
Though it does flush you, it does give you a
flush to your skin. It's also banned in Quebec and
France because of this. You'll see one health agency in
Cabec specifically that said they had to shut down an
arcnon uh and Scientology based rehab center because four separate
(50:08):
clients have been taken to the hospital due to the
methods used there. Uh. This is stuff like having people
with addictions go cold turkey off something you know, no
methodone or step downs, etcetera. And then these long detox
sessions in saunas that are meant to help you sweat
out drugs, and then uh, you know, they pump you
(50:32):
up with a ton of vitamins which may not always
be healthy for you. It's also quite expensive, so there's
a question about the profit motive. But yes, in response
to Cliff's email here, Yeah, it very much seems that
it very much seems that these two organizations, Narconon and
(50:53):
the Church of Scienceology are related. The question is how
independent are they? Uh And and Cliff, do you and
other folks who have had experience with Narconon feel that
their ultimate goal was to recruit you into scientology or
to help you get clean. Can I read the official
I found it. I found it on their website. Okay,
(51:13):
so this is at Narconon, which is it's not spelled
the way you may think it should be spelled. It
is n A R C O N O N dot org.
Just so everyone knows, slash drug dash rehab. Okay, this
is where you're going, says since nineteen sixty six, superior results,
long term effectiveness. The Narconon program is based on the
(51:37):
discoveries and writings of L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of
Scientology religion. However, Narconon is non religious, and a person
does not become a scientologist by doing the program. Mr
Hubbard was a humanitarian whose works include discoveries in the
fields of education, mental health, and criminal reform, as well
as drug rehabilitation. He began his research into drugs during
(51:59):
the nineteen season seventies, when recreational drug use had reached
epidemic proportions. He developed technologies to overcome the adverse effects
of virtually every type of drug. Wanting to help those
lost to addiction, Mr Hubbard made his discoveries broadly available,
and the result was the establishment of Narconon. See they
(52:19):
said it, they know what's up. The question is just
how separate those organizations are, you know what I mean? Like,
I can't be the only person who uh found out
late night after after a series of poorly informed partying
decisions that uh, Pizza Hutt and Taco Bell are run
(52:40):
by the same organization, you know what I mean, they
literally split the building in half. That blew my mind.
And the song about it is quite good too. Uh
So maybe maybe that's what That's one of the big questions,
Like when someone is helping a loved when go into
a program like Narconon, would they make the same decision
if they were aware of its connections to the organization
(53:03):
known as Scientology. I mean, that's not a ding on
either of those organizations. That's just a question of why
that message is not front and center on the website.
Because Matt, Matt, You're you're really good. You you like
have a nose for digging into stuff. We all do.
So if it took you that long, I feel like
(53:24):
it was. There are a lot of people who would
miss it, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, yeah,
it was not easy to find that fascinating and there
we leave it. Thank you so much, Lana, thank you
anonymous former mason, uh multiple anonymous former Mason's and and
thank you Cliff for writing in. We can't wait to
(53:46):
hear more from you all. I think that we have
found we have found rich fodder for several full episodes
in the future, assuming of course, that Big Mickey doesn't
get us. That's always a possibility. Or you know, as
as you said, fair Map, Big Rehab, we would love
to hear from you, specifically you. We get a lot
(54:08):
of We get a lot of folks who contact us
and say, you know, I know you always say that
you're talking to me, but I never had a reason
to write them before. Uh. Yeah, I really have to
have a reason, just you know, give us an idea
to share, share your experiences. Uh. And for anyone who
is struggling with substance of one or one sort or another. Uh,
(54:31):
there are multiple resources available to help you. Narconon is
not the only one in the game. Uh so, so
do check it out, do reach out. You're not alone
and you are worth the effort. Yes, and specifically you
anonymous person who called and left a message about a
curse and possibly something that occurred where there was a
(54:56):
murder and a trial. You know who you are. I
texted you and I called you. I just I need
to get a little more information from you in order
to actually talk about it on this show. So if
you're out there, look at your text so there might
be a weird one and respond to it police and
if you'd like to respond to us. Of course, we
try to be easy to find. You can find us
(55:17):
on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter, you can
find us on Instagram. We like to recommend Here's where
it Gets Crazy, which has for the second time in
a row, been confirmed to be the best page on
the entirety of Facebook by us. Ye just on on
this show. Yeah, that's great, Here's where it Gets Crazy.
(55:38):
To go there now. But what if you hate social media?
Can you go to YouTube? Because YouTube is kind of
not social media, just kidding it is, but YouTube dot
com slash conspiracy stuff. What if you don't like videos
they're fun or the internet, then you can what I
don't know, call call phone, you call it up. Oh yeah,
(55:58):
you're right, you're right. Yeah, just like that person one
eight three three std w y t K. That's our number.
You'll hear Ben. That's how you'll know you're in the
right place. Leave a message and we would love to
hear anything and everything, any kind of story, any kind
of idea. Just talk to us, please. And if none
of that quite Jostle's your apostles, can I say that
(56:20):
on air apostles? All right? None of that quite Jostle's
r apostles. Uh. And you're not you're not on board
with phone calls, We get it, you're not on board
with social media totally. We get that. We have one
last way that you can always contact us, whether or
not you're a freemason, whether or not you approve of
an arcing, on, whether or not you've ever been on
(56:41):
a cruise ship. Just send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com m H.
(57:04):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Nolan. They call
me Ben. We are joined as always with our super
producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you
are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. This is our listener
mail segments. So every week we find at least three
(00:47):
pieces of correspondence from the most important part of this show,
your fellow listeners. We've got some, We've got some doozies
here today, and as we've said in the past, we
get this massive amount of correspondence via email, via social accounts,
via our good old telephone number one eight three three
(01:09):
st d W y t K and Matt. I believe
that our our first piece of listener mail to day
is in fact a message, right it is. It's a
message from Atlanta, and let's just play it. Um Hi guys, um,
I'm wanna and I was listening to hear last or
one of your latest listener mails, and you were talking
(01:31):
about the cruise industry, and I was making a really
interesting thing to look into for your listeners and to
bring awareness to it's the disappearance of Rebecca COLOREUM. She
disappeared in UM from a cruise ship which are has
since been realized to sort of use palpable hugs of
human trafficking. And I think that aspect of cruise ships
(01:56):
and stuff could make for an really interesting, cool episode
thanks to what the show by and there we go.
We we have been talking about cruises quite a bit
in the recent past. I think our interest was first
peaked when we were just learning about UM, the the trap,
(02:17):
the viral in infectious trap that a cruise ship can
become when out at sea and just a single infected
person gets on board UM. And you know it then
became I guess, our interest in what the industry overall
has been doing for many years about law when you're
on international waters UM and just some of some of
(02:40):
the industries UM regular habits about how they keep costs
down UM really interesting stuff. But we have not talked
specifically about any disappearances. I don't think, Ben, unless I'm wrong.
We talked in the asked about. We've explored some cases
(03:03):
of people who went missing in international waters while not
necessarily on a cruise ship. But just like that episode
of Always Sunny in Philadelphia, you know, the the rules
are different on the high seas, and I really love
that you pointed that out. We have not talked about
Rebecca Quarium, who disappeared in March of two thousand eleven
(03:26):
March twenty. She was a crew member on a ship
called the Disney Wonder. And I do think that this
could warrant a a full episode because it already has
some of the commonalities we've seen in other controversial missing cases. Uh.
Number one, there are a lot of theories. Number two,
(03:47):
there's a lot of valid criticism of the subsequent investigation. Then,
of course we have to realize that without having done
the kind of research would need to do to make
a full episode this, we have to realize that this
gets very close to us messing with the Big Mouse
Disney Disney Wonder, that's Big Mickey, that's the Big Mickey
(04:08):
mob Man. The Mouse will come for you. It reminds
me of that show Succession that was on HBO, not
The Big Scandal. No spoilers but yeah, it's a thing.
Well there. Yeah, there's a massive corporation that has an
arm that is essentially their cruise line arm of their company,
and you can only imagine that this would be a
(04:28):
public relations nightmare. UM, So I would say the company
that owns this cruise liner where something may or may
not have happened, would have an incentive to keep it
as quiet as possible or as needed to be for
the investigation to continue along. I'm assuming I'm assuming others
(04:50):
maybe looking on at what's occurring here, what occurred, how
the investigation moved forward with a more skeptical eye when
it comes to the actions of the company. Um, there
is a lot to cover in this topic. I would
say there's a there's a pretty extensive timeline that begins
(05:10):
around five am on March that you were talking about
their ben which was a Tuesday that it actually saw
Rebecca on the phone. It's a CCTV camera just you
can watch her being upset, having an argument of some kind,
or being just looking like she is upset by what
is being said on that phone call. And then she
(05:33):
ended up not showing up for work, not not showing
up for her post the next morning, and that was
that she's been gone ever since, and people have gone
overboard in the past. But here's the thing to set
the stage right. The most likely, the most likely disappearance
with someone on the ocean in a boat is going
(05:54):
to be somehow that person going overboard. Uh, the seas
were calm Uh. There there are tons of discrepancies here too.
Just for anyone who's not familiar with the case. You
quickly find weird stuff like there were flip flops in
a room that were the wrong size. That doesn't prove anything,
but it's weird. It doesn't seem like you would have
(06:14):
committed suicide. But we don't know what's on that phone call. Uh,
we do know that people have not been happy with it.
One other screwy thing is jurisdiction, right, because I think
this ship is flagged in the Bahamas, correct, So the
initial law enforcement has to be carried out by law
(06:34):
enforcement in the Bahamas. Yeah. Where does the human trafficking
angle come in? The human trail? Oh? What where our
color m Atlanta was talking about cruise lines potentially being
a source of human trafficking, and you know, I do
not currently have the raw data for that or the
(06:57):
evidence to support that claim. But any time you've got
a massive ship that is traveling around through international waters
to to other countries, and there are people boarding the ship,
there are people getting off the ship. Um, there's certainly
opportunity right now that makes sense. Well, yeah, consider, I
(07:18):
mean consider the employment practices can become so sticky when
you are hiring people from one country to work on
a ship of a different country to go into international waters.
And as you said, Matt, make many stops along the way,
it's not impossible for things to go awry. Like this
(07:39):
is the transportation sector, right It's the entertainment sector, sure,
but it's also the transit sector. And the transit sector
is rife with opportunity for traffickers, like uh, sex trafficking
maybe in the way that you might see it occur
in Las Vegas, like the to put a fine point
on it, Uh, the John's are the people who think
(08:03):
they're engaging in some kind of consensual sex work, maybe
actually involved with someone who is being forced or core
coerced to be there. But I do want to point out,
without too much of a spoiler, I think it wasn't
too long ago that Rebecca Quarium's girlfriend at the time
(08:23):
said that she said that, in her opinion, Rebecca took
a lot of drugs and then maybe deliberately leaped off
the boat. But that's still like not officially proven, right
yeah there, yeah, yeah, not at all. Um. You really
have to look at her parents who have been fighting
(08:44):
battles in and out of court since March of with
with both Disney Cruise Line, with the Disney Company I
guess and their their cruise line arm as well as
just attempting to find out more information from the various
investigators that have been working on the case. UM. I
don't want to spoil too much here, but as of
(09:06):
twixten the the company did settle with the the family.
Uh yeah, so so there was money paid. I I
don't I highly doubt that any wrongdoing was you know,
was admitted. There no no admission of guilt. That's that's
(09:30):
a settlement. Is also you know, it's not necessarily a
sketchy thing. Again, I think now we're all being careful
because we do want a full episode and we don't
want to spoil it, but but to be very very transparent. Um,
when a corporation or even a celebrity, for instance, reaches
an out of court settlements, then what they're doing is
(09:54):
they're they're paying the person off, paying the the aggrieved
party off, but they're doing it outside of court, meaning
there is no legal admission of guilt and the case
will be considered settled and no further legal proceedings will occur,
at least in that in that specific instance, you know
(10:16):
what I mean, Like we see criminal cases get go
to mistrial or get dismissed and then a civil case
is successful. So there, what's also like, not without precedent,
the idea of people disappearing from cruise ships. I just
found like a market Watch article from two thousand seventeen UM,
so the stats will be a little higher by now.
But since two thousand, according to this article, around three
(10:38):
hundred people have gone overboard from cruise ships and ferries um.
And that's according to data collected by Ross Klein, as
professor in the School of Social Work at Memorial University
of Newfoundland and Canada. And of those folks, like, there
are you know several many that are still still missing,
presumed dead. So it's you know, it's a thing that happened.
(11:00):
People drink a lot on cruise ships, and they can
just topple overboard of their own volition, I guess, but
you know, on their own doesn't necessarily mean that there's
foul play. And I was wondering too, like do cruise
ships ever like piggyback and carry cargo as well? And
apparently that's not really a thing. So I'm wondering, like
where on the ship would human trafficking, you know, victims
(11:23):
be held. I mean, I'm assuming, of course there's gonna
be internal cargo for the things that they need to
make all the meals and you know, whatever else services
are provided on on the cruise ship. But I'd be
interested to see what the stats are for, you know,
proving that human trafficking takes place on you know, commercial
cruise lines. It's tough. I mean, it's it's it's a
(11:45):
tough stat to pull in an accurate way because to
your question, many of the to your first question, many
of those human trafficking victims are in some cases gonna
look like any other, uh, any other passenger. That's a
good point. They're being controlled by, you know, their their
main abuser or trafficker who is putting them up um
(12:09):
under any number of ruses and The truth about the
matter is if you are if you are a company
operating ships that take hundreds and hundreds of people on
a boat regularly, you are going to have a difficult
time giving each single individual a background check other than
(12:29):
making sure that their credit card works and that they
uh that they can legally travel to whatever country you're
taking them too. So it's it's tough. It's tough, and
it's it's a problem that we know. Um, it's a
problem that we know the industry has taken steps to address,
(12:49):
but it's a it's a herculean effort. Uh. On a
brighter note, I I know I mentioned this, like every
two or three years, if you want to travel across
the ocean and you don't want to go out and
cruise ship, and you're flexible with your time, you can
get a really affordable ticket on a cargo ship and
it'll just be like you and the crew people maybe
(13:13):
two other people who love unorthodox travel and uh maybe
maybe you'll work on that novel, who knows, uh, but
you you have to bake in like to to two
to six weeks of flexibility on either side. Yikes. I
imagine just getting like, for whatever reason, getting stuck outside
(13:36):
in a bay somewhere in this giant cargo ship because
you're not allowed to dock yet, and there's some kind
of trade dispute occurring, and you just then you just
live there on a cargo ship. That's your life now,
which would be great if guys, if we could record
on the cargo ship, that would be pretty neat. I'm
still working that out. There's some technical difficulties. Well, Ben,
(13:59):
I mean you'll recall and not the two distant past,
we were recording pretty regularly in what felt like a
shipping container, so we'd be perfectly at home, uh in
such a situation. I mean, I'm in that now, actually
doing it. Guys. This isn't hours though I am on
(14:19):
a cargo ship. Don't be mad at me. I thought
you would say, I thought, do I tell you what
I was on the boat? I thought you might say, no,
I was wondering what that sloshing sound. I was, yeah, Well,
I just wo Just to bring it back to Rebecca Quarnium,
you guys, and without spoiling too much, I think this
should be an episode that we cover in the future.
(14:40):
And this is what I want to leave you with.
This is from a Hollywood Reporter article that is discussing
the I guess the result of the court case that
went through UM. This is a quote from Jim Walker,
a Miami based attorney who represented aquariums in the United
(15:01):
States throughout this case. He says, the case has been resolved.
They're pursuing an inquest in the UK, but I'm not
supposed to talk about the case. So that's interesting right
now Here Here is another quote, this one from British
parliamentarian at least in Chris Matheson. Here's his quote. My
(15:24):
worst fear is that Rebecca Quarium was murdered. It's a
possibility and it needs to be investigated properly. The more
you look into this, the more it smells rotten, the
more it smells like a crime has taken place. So
UM terrible, like absolutely horrifying and terrible for the Koium
family and for Rebecca Chorium herself. However, for you know,
(15:48):
the possibilities here of uncovering something that we can really
dig into, that we can talk about on this show
and maybe expose some stuff going on and problems, like
you're speaking to knowl It feels like this topic is
right before it so I'm excited to dig in more.
Thank you so much Lanta for calling and letting us
know about this. Yes, great, thank you, and thank you
(16:10):
to everybody who's written in response to our our earlier
exploration of cruise ships. There's there's a lot beneath the
surface there, you know. Um, we can't wait to dig in.
And one of the one of the most amazing things
here is is just how much firsthand experience we've been
learning about in your correspondencies with us. Uh, we're getting
(16:35):
an inside peak and we want to We want to
go further down the rabbit hole, as is our want.
Speaking of inside peaks, we also we received a number
of correspondencies from people who reached out. I had no
idea this many people would talk to us about this,
people who reached out to tell us how you can,
(16:57):
in fact get booted from one of our favorite secret societies.
We'll tell you more about this after a quick word
from our sponsors and we're back. Uh. Yeah, So the
question has arisen, Will where where did this come up?
(17:18):
Fellas the idea of getting booted from the Mason's Do
you remember how that came about? Wasn't that on a
news episode or what was That's Garrison Courtney, who was
pretending to be a deep cover ci apy and built
built a bunch of high ranking government officials out of millions.
He got close. The people he called were so important
(17:38):
that he got close to signing some multibillion dollar contracts,
which would have also given him full legal immunity. At
one point, he claimed to be hooking someone up in
contact with an ambassador that he said he knew through
the Freemasons. When the marketing question finally spoke to said ambassador,
(18:00):
it turned out that the only thing that ambassador knew
was that this con man, Garrison Courtney, had been kicked
out of the Mason's uh. And I think that's where
the three of us started asking ourselves, Well, the four
of us started asking ourselves, how do how do you
get kicked out of the Masons. I think it's interesting question,
and also the way it occurred to us as interesting
(18:22):
because because of the paths that we, uh, we sort
of follow with some of these stories. You know, secret
societies have a certain air of sinisterness to them, and
I think it's certainly possible to ascribe that same thing
to the Freemasons. But at the end of the day.
There's a lot of information out there about the Freemasons,
and you know, anyone can be nominated to be a member,
(18:44):
and you can even go to your local chapter and
petition to to be a member. We'll talk about that
in a second, but, uh, the idea that you know,
somehow Masons are these like high level you know, evil types,
are criminal masterminds or something. At least that's where my
mind goes, like, how do you get kicked out of
(19:04):
an organization that's already pure evil? But that's definitely not
the case. The Masons do a lot of good work
for the community, as we know, like the Shriners. There's
an off shoot of the Mason's sponsor all of these
children's hospitals, and you know, you could argue it's just
a front for all of their nefarious underground dealings, but
you know, it's it's an interesting thing to think about.
(19:24):
And it's also a very long tradition of Freemasonry, as
we know, and there's certainly been some shadowy figures that
have been connected to it over the years, but also
some very prominent and uh and upstanding figures might have
been connected to it, one of which I would argue
is our anonymous email email or um. He even doesn't
(19:45):
even give a name. He just has a very clandestine
email address using letters and numbers that I don't know
what it necessarily is pointing to, if it's initials or weapons.
Quite a lot of numbers. But he has this to
say about the question. Uh at end here, Hi, guys,
I was in the Freemasons for just over five years,
and in that time I climbed offices in the Blue
(20:06):
Lodge as well as obtained the rank of Nights templar
okay in the York Right, as well as the thirty
second degree in the Scottish Rite. The quickest way to
get booted out was by being convicted of a crime.
Falons aren't allowed in and getting one will put you out.
Misdemeanors are hidden miss demeanors, that's mine largely depending on
(20:33):
who you know. You can be ejected for non payment
of dues. That was a question that came up, but
I've never known that to happen. There were guys that
hadn't paid for years. Generally, anything over a year past
duo will mean you're getting letters. I never had access
to the quote upper Echelon's but I did know people
who were from my time in It all seems like
(20:55):
traditional frat things. The main secret is the secrecy and
elitism itself. Any other secrets are handshakes, code words, and
ritual things. I think, repeating phrases, acting out scenes, things
like that no one would really care about. If you
attend a public session that is held once a year
in most places, you will witness what happens at even
(21:18):
the highest levels really interesting information. UM, I wouldn't be
surprised if small cliques form within the lodge who may
get into things that the public wouldn't like. But I
think you could say this for any group of considerable size.
I'm willing to answer any questions the best of my ability. Anonymous,
(21:38):
Hey check this out. Wait, wait, let me get it's
all frame. But do you guys remember this one? Yeah?
For the Yeah there it is one of the YouTube crowd.
Is there no help for the widow's son? Uh? But
I don't feel like we're compromising any any Masonic organizations
(22:01):
in the crowd by saying that this is the age
of the internet. Well, and neither it is our anonymous emailer.
He seems to think that anybody going to one of
these public gatherings would would witness a lot of the
same stuff. And then maybe it's not as hush hush
as one might think. Um, and that the ritualism of
the organization is the notion of this secrecy, but it's
(22:22):
maybe not as ironclad as one might think. Did no,
did you see that we got an We got another
email really recently about this. I just want to read
just this title other one from from another current Mason.
This person says, sometimes a brother will decide that he
is no longer interested in being involved, maybe he learned
that we don't control the world, or he's sick of
(22:45):
eating green beans at dinner. When he can then issue
him what is called a dem it, which is a
letter stating that he left of his own accord and
there are no claims against him. It's like an honorable discharge,
is what this person. Yeah, this idea of like what
what amounts to an amicable breakup is is pretty refreshing.
(23:07):
That's that's a good thing that a lot of more
secretive organizations don't really have. I also want to shout
out someone who who wrote a great letter to us
about this from from Maine. UH and some of our
our personal contacts who have been involved in freemasonry, who
(23:27):
have talked to us about it. Um. The point that
you make, Anonymous that I really appreciate it. I think
we all appreciated, was that the idea of collusion and
conspiracy is likely to form in groups of any size,
and it is likely to be the result of a
small clique or faction within a larger community working towards
(23:52):
their own ends, and the larger community may know nothing
about this. Like uh, like think about this. Think about
a small town corruption rampant in America historically, right, there's
there's gonna be there's gonna be a mob in you know, uh,
some equivalent of a mob in three Toe, Arkansas, just
(24:13):
as much as in Chicago or New York City. They
might just not be Italian, they might not call themselves
a mob, but the sheriff and the mayor and whomever
probably run the town. So with that in mind, and
these smaller communities especially, it's completely possible that they would
all happen to be members of the same social network,
whether that's the Rotarians or the Lions Club or yes,
(24:36):
the Freemasons, And then would they meet at the Lions Club?
Was like at the Toastmasters or whatever at the Freemasons
uh lodge, they're able to meet under the cover of
that organization, and then they just gotta go to another
room have a little what we would call a breakout session,
and they're like, Okay, how how are we going to
(24:56):
fix this election? You know what I mean. It's the
same thing we talked about with all these secret societies,
Like we we had this conversation with with John Hodgman.
If I'm not mistaken about the book and Snake, Uh
secret society at Harvard or where was it? Where where
is that organ Yale? That's right, and that's sort of
the deal is at any of these there's going to
(25:18):
be an opportunity to mingle with high level people with
which you could potentially collude if both so on into
doing so um and uh. But it doesn't mean necessarily
the entire organization is inherently corrupt or based on overthrowing
the you know, the status quo in some former fashion. Yeah,
(25:38):
we've also learned is that you don't need a secret
society for any of that. You just need. All you
need is a country club that's exactly own a giant
country club somewhere near Boca Raton. Maybe I don't know,
you go to Boca or I don't know. It could
be in in the heart of Atlanta, could be anywhere. Really,
(25:59):
just oh and operate a country like right. I've got
to say too to anonymous and to the other folks
who have written in to give us some excellent information
about freemasonry, which which I greatly appreciate. Um. My immediate
question now and it was so hard not to email
(26:19):
everybody about this is Uh. There's a line you read
from our anonymous are anonymous listener Noel where it's like,
misdemeanors are hit and miss or as you said, misdemeanor. Yeah,
and largely it depends on nepotism, right, the end result
of whether or not one can stay with the organization.
(26:40):
That's fine. A lot of these organizations do operate primarily
on nepotism. As a matter of fact, I would say
nepotism is one of the number one things holding the
species back overall. Unfortunately, meritocracy is too often a myth,
but nepotism aside. I wonder what the misdemeanors are are
the misdemeanors solely of moral aptitude, as you'll hear sometimes
(27:02):
on a customs form or like, I would love if
there was, for some reason something incredibly specific and something
that seemed relatively meaningless or innocuous to us non Masons
on the outside. And I wonder if that's like the
number one crime in freemasonry. I hope to God it's
stamp fraud for some reason. They're like the one thing
(27:24):
that will you know, sometimes you hit people with a
car and sometimes they die. That's an accident. Accidents happen.
But if you make fake stamps, perhaps perhaps coin forgery, Yes,
that would be another good, real specific way poins are
fitter exactly. I love that I've seen. I've seen the
(27:45):
signs at all the gas stations. Don't ask for a
coin change. Um. I did find an article written by
a Mason master Mason by the name of Matthew Arnold
McIntosh on a website called w V. Mason's dot org,
and the headline as high Moral Standards of Freemasons. And
he goes through and kind of writes a treatise about
how at its heart the whole purpose of freemasonry is
(28:08):
to impart this high moral standard on its members. Um.
And then I was sort of like, Okay, how how
do I become a Mason? Didn't take long to find
a website that that gives you kind of a step
by step in the how to do so? It's Masonic
Dash Lodge, Dash of Dash Education dot com and UH.
It reads almost like an old timey pamphlet Become a Freemason?
(28:30):
Would you like to become a Freemason and belong to
the oldest and largest fraternity in the world? He has
how Uh You must first find a Masonic Lodge location
near you, contact them and ask for a petition to
join uh. And then if you become a Freemason, you
will This is like serious selling points. Join both the
oldest and largest fraternity in the world. Join a brotherhood
(28:51):
of over two million men of all ages, from all races,
religions and countries, and from all walks of life. Uh.
And then it has some pictures of some real cool
UH signet rings that you get. I guess when you
become a member? UM? Why do so many men want
to become a Freemason? And it describes the organization as
a voluntary fraternal organization composed of men of goodwill, good character,
(29:14):
and good reputation whom in most jurisdictions around the world,
believe in an almighty creator and practice the spirit of
universal brotherhood to man. A lot of man talk in
this though. Yeah, that's one of the big things. Yeah,
we need to we need to get in front of
that before someone's writing to us about this. So earlier,
(29:34):
I think one of us said, anybody can get in.
I know some of us are writing emails about that
right now. Don't worry. Pause pause your email. Uh, yes,
it's only dudes. There are associated organizations that are not
entirely just dudes, but that is that is one great
discrimination of of the masodic orders. I think also as
(29:58):
you as you mentioned earlier in old uh one need
not have a specific religion, but must have some sort
of belief in spiritual Yes, exactly. And then just just
to wrap this up, just wanted to I've got this
giant alphabetical list and I'm gonna kind of just skip
around a little bit. But uh, just some some high
(30:19):
you know, highly influential and uh big deal folks who
who were Mason's and we know this Abbott Bud uh Bud.
William Abbott of Abbott and Costello fame was a Mason
Um buzz Aldrin. It was, in fact a Mason, the
second man to walk on the moon. Let's see, we've
(30:39):
got Gerald Ford, who was a president. We know Henry Ford,
automobile pioneer, of course. Let's see. Just you, you, just you.
You throw a pin at this list and you're gonna
find somebody influential. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints a k a.
The Mormons. Isn't that interesting? I do love the idea.
(31:00):
This is infascinating to me, and I think we've already
kind of expressed why this is. But it's interesting. I
think of Masonry as being all about these clandestine kind
of rights and um, you know, rituals, and to me,
that would kind of fly on the face of being
a Christian or someone who's very closely identifies with you know.
(31:20):
But no, that's not the case. They can they their
hand in hand, and one doesn't necessarily require the other.
We talked about that, right. One of the only things
you have to have is a belief in a higher power,
and it does not matter what that higher power is
in your mind, as long as you believe that there
is one. However, Freemasons have been enemies of UM, have
(31:41):
been enemies of dogmatic, oppressive religions uh, and in the
past have been enemies of oppressive governments. I mean, look
at look at the French Revolution, look at how many
founding fathers of the United States were affiliated with Freemasonry.
It's it's kind of a there's something collegiate and salon
like about it, the idea of the free exchange of
(32:04):
concepts and being able to say, well, you know, I
I'm not on board with this whole Catholicism thing and
not go to church jail or whatever lose I like that.
Well that's what they call it. You know. It's one
of many Enlightenment organizations like the Rosa Crucians or the
(32:27):
you know, UM, there's many very what do we talk
about the Order of the Pug Remember that one the
pug one from ridiculous history or he kissed the Pugs
butts That was a French Wasn't that a French backlash
against freemac Like Freemasonry was outlawed in France, and so
they made this other organization. U Voltaire was a Freemason UM,
(32:50):
a very influential and French philosopher who wrote about oppressive
governments and oppressive systems. So uh, interesting stuff, guys, um
But yeah, I think that that does it for this one.
Did you know George Clinton was a Freemason of Parliament
funkadelic No, the third Vice President of the United States?
(33:10):
Who am I thinking out? I just did it because
I knew you would think about that, George Clinton. Sorry,
I want to he's he's a Mason of Funk. That's
I mean. I think a lot I think a lot
of people would, um well, would agree that there there's
tangible benefit uh to these organizations, both for the individuals
(33:33):
involved and for often for the communities right in which
those uh those lodges exist, like to the point about
the Shriners and funding medical care for for the medium
for children. I think I think they get vilified sometimes,
like we never did an episode on the Anti Masonic Party,
which confirms my standing theory that if you want, uh,
(33:57):
if you want something like that, like a political part
or religion, to be successful, you have to be aspirational
and offering something. You can't found a party just against something.
What do you do when that's god? You know what
I mean? Like no war, Polar Bears, club. The Polar
Bears are extinct. Uh, but we already spent all this
(34:19):
money on the on the chips and dip in the catering.
So we're still going to get together. Wow, that's really
that's really great. But example, but this is this is
something relevant at some point everybody listening right now we're
watching this, go out find a list of the former
(34:40):
Supreme Court justices within the United States that were or
are members of Free and Accepted Mason's. It's just interesting
to see, Like, when it comes to law and politics,
Ben as you as you noted earlier, a lot of
people who are in government are are a part of
(35:00):
this organization. Would I be correct in assuming that many
of them who were Freemasons would be more on the
progressive tip than conservative or is there really not much
of a line there? It's not much of a line. Honestly.
It's tough because the definition of what is or is
not considered conservative or progressive has changed so much over
(35:24):
just a few centuries, you know, Like, of course, we're
not that far away from the time when um women
voting was considered to be like this radical, extreme idea.
What's next, We're gonna blow up the moon and then later,
you know a few decades ago we thought about doing
just that. Well, the most important former Freemason to me
(35:46):
is is clearly Robert Pershing Wadlow, the tallest human on record, um,
who I believe was the guy that that you you'll
see a sculpture of outside most Ripley's, believe it or not,
locations the world over. And I think Handsome Family as
a as a beautiful heartbreaking song about him. I did
not know he was a Mason, but it makes sense also, Matt,
(36:07):
I'm sorry, I don't want to keep us going too
long on this, but to the point you raise about
the justices, I would ask, is it possible that people
at the higher levels of government or maybe higher levels
of business as well, just tend to do more extracurricular activities?
You know? Are they also like uh yeah, are they
(36:31):
like big in their h o A. Do they go
get like public notary certification because they just like the certificate?
I mean? Are they members of toastmasters as well? Rotarians?
Probably philanthropic organizations? Yeah, yeah, the whole nine, all the
good ones. It certainly is encouraged. You know, when you're
(36:51):
in school, I gotta get those extra curriculous up to
get into a good college. Well, it makes sense, but
we we're talking about the differences in our geologies within
within members of freemasony. Think about this. The first director
of the FBI, j Edgar Hoover, the guy who called
Martin Luther King Jr. I think I can't tell you
(37:11):
the exact quote, but the most dangerous man essentially within
the United States at one point in time. Um, the
person who instituted co intel pro and spying on people
who were attempting to capture their civil liberties in equality.
That guy was a freemason. Also, Uh, someone who was
(37:32):
on the other side fighting for civil rights, Reverend Jesse
Jackson was a freemason or is. It's just really interesting
to me that you can have this wide swath of
belief in things that you would fight for and the
(37:52):
presidents skull and bones. Think about that. No, that's a
good point. Also like strong thermendos and notoriously, Uh, Dixie
kratt Um the Republican senator who from from the state
of Georgia. If I'm not mistaken, I hope he's a
bad guy, bad bad guy. Um. Last one, and then
(38:13):
we definitely moved on. But there's a lot of interesting
names here to talk about. Is uh this is decided
was not aware of this? Just as like a little
bit of trivia. Uh, William Howard Taft who was not
only the President of the United States but also held
the position of Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court,
and he's the only man ever to have headed up
these two uh, two branches of US government. Only president
(38:37):
to be stuck in a bathtub as well as true
and just as a counterpoint, you know who else, Richard
pryor H Well, we'll we'll pause here. Uh. Please keep
writing to us with your inside experiences with uh, with
the Freemasons. We would love to hear about your time
(38:59):
in a Masonic order, whatever you're comfortable sharing with us.
Most importantly, let us know if for some reason it
needs to be anonymous. Let us know about pointer fitters,
and uh, let let us know about what the miss
what the like, what the red line misdemeanors are? You know?
And uh, how late can our library books be? Etcetera.
But if you want to learn a little bit more,
(39:19):
do check out our past episodes. Check out our YouTube
channel YouTube dot com slash Conspiracy Stuff, where we also
explore things like Albert Pike and a couple of other
things will be of interest to people who want to
learn more about Masonic history. And shout out to in
support Lodge, also Blue Lodge for life the Blue Lodge,
(39:43):
because that just makes me think of Twin Peaks. And
we are back to examine what is sometimes called a
life stage an organization and sometimes called a branch of
(40:06):
rather secretive. I'll just say it's Scientology. Okay, we've got this.
We've got an email. I've got an email from Cliff Sea.
I want to give this to everybody and then we'll
we'll follow up on it. Okay, so Cliff, you said hello.
Back in two thousand twelve, I went through a nark
An addiction program in the mountains of southern California. Scientology
(40:30):
uses these programs to recruit people at their lowest and
most vulnerable points. The entire program is based on teachings
by Hubbard, by which means l Ron Hubbard, the founder
of first Dianetics, and then when he got sued, the
founder of Scientology. This is a topic worth diving into,
says Cliff. But as I don't know if you will
read this, I'll just give you bullet points for now
(40:52):
in a list these, and they're fairly brutal. One, they
lock you in a cabin in the desert, telling you
that you may leave, but they will follow you with
water and only give it to you if you come back.
They will not call your family or help during the
first month. If you decide to wander off into the
desert too, they say they have medical staff. This is
(41:12):
staff they have trained and ordained as doctors and nurses. Next,
they force you to sit silently staring into another person's
eyes for five hours without movement, and then continue for
five more hours with your eyes closed. If you flinch
or start to doze off, you start again. If you
question scientology, they move you to isolation until you promise
(41:33):
to stop. They charge families tens of thousands of dollars,
constantly asked for more money, and say that we don't
actually do scientology here. They monitor your phone calls under threats,
so you cannot say otherwise, and then Cliff concludes. As
with most rehab programs, they want you to take responsibility
(41:55):
for your actions, but they blatantly take advantage of this
to make you feel like a You are low life,
and they scientology are the only solution. Having said all this,
says Cliff, it probably does help some people, but in
my honest and clean for many years not thanks to
them opinion. They scare people away from rehabilitation and make
(42:15):
folks think it is a form of prison. I know
this is something that maybe we have heard about before,
but I don't know if we've talked about Narconon on
the air with each other. Have we? We haven't have
we I can't remember a time unless it was No.
I don't think our drugs in the military would have
covered it, or our hallucinogens in medical research. No. I
(42:39):
think this might be the first. Yeah. So it's weird
because both the Church of Scientology and Narconons say that
it's a secular program. It's completely independent of the religious
teachings of Scientology. But it seems like many people, many
people are disillusioned with Narconon or have family members who
(43:00):
have gone through that program. They they argue the opposite.
They say it's a front group for Scientology with the
ultimate name of recruiting people. What do you guys think
about that? Well, is it actually in any way associated
with Scientology? Yes, it is. Yeah, it is like officially
as an Organizationally, it's parent company is something called the
(43:24):
Association for Better Living and Education Way for Able and
Able is owned and controlled by the Church of Scientology.
So it's like a subsidiary of a subsidiary, which means
they could argue, you know, of course that we exist
independent of that. We just have our our roots there. Yeah,
if you go to scientology dot org, they have a
(43:46):
whole section on drug rehabilitation and prevention. And that's the
thing that's that's what makes Scientology a bit you know, insidious,
is they they they appeal to people at their lowest
either professionally or they're trying to get a foothole. I
moved to Hollywood and you know, they're trying to like
become an actor or a screenwriter or whatever. And that's
the story you always here. But this is even more predatory,
(44:08):
whereas people that are truly at their lowest points and
perhaps come from wealthy families or are able to pay
the money that it tastes because rehab ain't cheap. UM.
I always assumed Narconon was like Alanon, and then it
was just another type of meeting that you go to UM.
And then it was like a family situation that it
(44:29):
wasn't like rehab exactly. But this is really news to me.
Alanon um Alcoholics Anonymous rather, I'm sorry that's different too,
But yeah, yeah, Alanon's separate from Alcoholics Anonymous, but I
think it was UM. I don't think they're in co
hoots or in uh conflict with one another. And I
(44:51):
think Narconon So Alanon's founded in nineteen fifty one, right,
Narconon was founded in nineteen sixties six, So without sounding conspiratorial,
is it possible that Hubbard made a similar name, you know,
on purpose as a marketing or brand recognition thing. And
(45:13):
the more I've read about Narconon, the more I see
problems with just their treatment. In an official for the
Church of Scientology said that Narconon's rehabilitation programs are based
entirely on the tenants and teachings of scientology. And you
know what that means, no psychotherapists, psychologists. Yeah, that's something
(45:37):
that I wish you would have gotten into with UM
with Mike on that so we didn't really talk about
the aversion to psychologists and and and psychiatry. And I
could probably guess why it is because it gives you
agency over people gas lighting you, and and the tools
to cope with abusers. Yeah, that's just my two sets.
(46:00):
Someone why that might be. Of course, there's there's there's
a whole mythology wrapped up in it within the teachings
of scientology. It's fascinating stuff. I had no idea about
this connection though, Like with Narconon and scientology zero oh yeah, yeah.
If you look at their website, I was just I
went to narconon dot org and I was looking around
trying to find something that says scientology on it on
(46:23):
their main page. I did a quick little apple F
for scientology and you know where I found it? Nowhere.
It's not on there. It's not on that front page.
It does not say scientology anywhere, at least in something
that is searchable, And I can't find it anywhere in
like an image or something, you know, maybe just be
(46:44):
invented in an image. But if you go all the
way to the bottom under our history, our technology, and
you go to about Narconon, then you do a little
apple F for scientology. There, you know what you find,
zero identifiable mentions of scientology. But if you go all
(47:06):
the way down again underneath there's a subheading under about
Narconon Global Mission fifty years saving lives blah blah blah
blah blah blah. Oh here it is l Ron Hubbard. Uh,
there we go. There, we got them talk about talk
about the stuff they don't want you to know, right'.
(47:28):
I've wanted to do, you know, peep behind the curtain.
I wanted to do for a number of years an
episode on problems with rehabilitation programs throughout history and Arknon
has been in my like on my radar for a while.
But it's tricky because we want to make sure that
we're not first off, we're not giving people medical advice
(47:51):
or legal advice, and secondly that we're not like, I
don't want us to do anything that would stop someone
who needs help. I'm going to a rehabilitation center. You know,
that's that's such an important thing. But also, you know
the thing about Narconon, Like, here's one of the weirdest
things about them in terms of their treatment. Have you
guys heard of nias like nias and bombs. This is
(48:16):
where some of that comes from. M Yeah, there would
dose somebody with four thousand milligrams a day of niacin uh,
and this is meant to This is like part of
a vitamin mineral supplement regimen that is supposed to address
(48:37):
pre existing nutritional deficiencies, uh and help help you offset
nutrient loss through sweating. But the niacin thing goes back
to Hubbard because he believed niason would increase. I think
it's free fatty acid and um, like the mobilization of
free fatty acid. And then it will help you get
(49:01):
rid of toxins. So so they would, uh, they would
dose you up with these massive amounts of nias and
and niacin. Like any other particular substance, it's got a
diminishing return, you know what I mean. If you have
too much niacin, it can be dangerous for you. I've
(49:23):
heard people talk about using niacin to like spoof a
P test, you know, for drugs. Don't know, I don't
know if that actually works or not, but it you know,
in the same way that you're talking about the idea
that it I think what it does is it like
causes you to sweat like crazy and causes like the
capillaries on your skin to sort of expand and you
get really red. Um. That's my understanding. It's it's interesting,
(49:46):
though I don't know if it actually works or not.
Though it does flush you, it does give you a
flush to your skin. It's also banned in Quebec and
France because of this. You'll see one health agency in
Cabec specifically that said they had to shut down an
arcnon uh and Scientology based rehab center because four separate
(50:08):
clients have been taken to the hospital due to the
methods used there. Uh. This is stuff like having people
with addictions go cold turkey off something you know, no
methodone or step downs, etcetera. And then these long detox
sessions in saunas that are meant to help you sweat
out drugs, and then uh, you know, they pump you
(50:32):
up with a ton of vitamins which may not always
be healthy for you. It's also quite expensive, so there's
a question about the profit motive. But yes, in response
to Cliff's email here, Yeah, it very much seems that
it very much seems that these two organizations, Narconon and
(50:53):
the Church of Scienceology are related. The question is how
independent are they? Uh And and Cliff, do you and
other folks who have had experience with Narconon feel that
their ultimate goal was to recruit you into scientology or
to help you get clean. Can I read the official
I found it. I found it on their website. Okay,
(51:13):
so this is at Narconon, which is it's not spelled
the way you may think it should be spelled. It
is n A R C O N O N dot org.
Just so everyone knows, slash drug dash rehab. Okay, this
is where you're going, says since nineteen sixty six, superior results,
long term effectiveness. The Narconon program is based on the
(51:37):
discoveries and writings of L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of
Scientology religion. However, Narconon is non religious, and a person
does not become a scientologist by doing the program. Mr
Hubbard was a humanitarian whose works include discoveries in the
fields of education, mental health, and criminal reform, as well
as drug rehabilitation. He began his research into drugs during
(51:59):
the nineteen season seventies, when recreational drug use had reached
epidemic proportions. He developed technologies to overcome the adverse effects
of virtually every type of drug. Wanting to help those
lost to addiction, Mr Hubbard made his discoveries broadly available,
and the result was the establishment of Narconon. See they
(52:19):
said it, they know what's up. The question is just
how separate those organizations are, you know what I mean? Like,
I can't be the only person who uh found out
late night after after a series of poorly informed partying
decisions that uh, Pizza Hutt and Taco Bell are run
(52:40):
by the same organization, you know what I mean, they
literally split the building in half. That blew my mind.
And the song about it is quite good too. Uh
So maybe maybe that's what That's one of the big questions,
Like when someone is helping a loved when go into
a program like Narconon, would they make the same decision
if they were aware of its connections to the organization
(53:03):
known as Scientology. I mean, that's not a ding on
either of those organizations. That's just a question of why
that message is not front and center on the website.
Because Matt, Matt, You're you're really good. You you like
have a nose for digging into stuff. We all do.
So if it took you that long, I feel like
(53:24):
it was. There are a lot of people who would
miss it, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, yeah,
it was not easy to find that fascinating and there
we leave it. Thank you so much, Lana, thank you
anonymous former mason, uh multiple anonymous former Mason's and and
thank you Cliff for writing in. We can't wait to
(53:46):
hear more from you all. I think that we have
found we have found rich fodder for several full episodes
in the future, assuming of course, that Big Mickey doesn't
get us. That's always a possibility. Or you know, as
as you said, fair Map, Big Rehab, we would love
to hear from you, specifically you. We get a lot
(54:08):
of We get a lot of folks who contact us
and say, you know, I know you always say that
you're talking to me, but I never had a reason
to write them before. Uh. Yeah, I really have to
have a reason, just you know, give us an idea
to share, share your experiences. Uh. And for anyone who
is struggling with substance of one or one sort or another. Uh,
(54:31):
there are multiple resources available to help you. Narconon is
not the only one in the game. Uh so, so
do check it out, do reach out. You're not alone
and you are worth the effort. Yes, and specifically you
anonymous person who called and left a message about a
curse and possibly something that occurred where there was a
(54:56):
murder and a trial. You know who you are. I
texted you and I called you. I just I need
to get a little more information from you in order
to actually talk about it on this show. So if
you're out there, look at your text so there might
be a weird one and respond to it police and
if you'd like to respond to us. Of course, we
try to be easy to find. You can find us
(55:17):
on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter, you can
find us on Instagram. We like to recommend Here's where
it Gets Crazy, which has for the second time in
a row, been confirmed to be the best page on
the entirety of Facebook by us. Ye just on on
this show. Yeah, that's great, Here's where it Gets Crazy.
(55:38):
To go there now. But what if you hate social media?
Can you go to YouTube? Because YouTube is kind of
not social media, just kidding it is, but YouTube dot
com slash conspiracy stuff. What if you don't like videos
they're fun or the internet, then you can what I
don't know, call call phone, you call it up. Oh yeah,
(55:58):
you're right, you're right. Yeah, just like that person one
eight three three std w y t K. That's our number.
You'll hear Ben. That's how you'll know you're in the
right place. Leave a message and we would love to
hear anything and everything, any kind of story, any kind
of idea. Just talk to us, please. And if none
of that quite Jostle's your apostles, can I say that
(56:20):
on air apostles? All right? None of that quite Jostle's
r apostles. Uh. And you're not you're not on board
with phone calls, We get it, you're not on board
with social media totally. We get that. We have one
last way that you can always contact us, whether or
not you're a freemason, whether or not you approve of
an arcing, on, whether or not you've ever been on
(56:41):
a cruise ship. Just send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com m H.
(57:04):
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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