Power, Politics, Corruption and Prayer: What is 'The Family'?

Washington, D.C. is home to numerous organizations and institutions created to broker deals and funnel power from one place (or policy) to another. Many of these organizations operate more or less openly, while others pride themselves on their discretion and ability to stay out of the public eye. The Family is one of the latter -- a secretive group founded in 1935 as a religiously-motivated movement to bring its interpretation of Christianity to the halls of Congress and beyond. But what exactly is the Family? More importantly, what exactly are they up to? Join the guys as they peer behind the curtain.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Mm

(00:24):
hello and welcome back to the show. My name is Noel.
Our close compatriot Matt is on adventures, but it will
be returning soon. They called me Ben. We are joined
with our super producer Paul Michig, controlled decond and most importantly,
you are you. You are here that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know. In the course of

(00:45):
the research for today's episode, it hit me and maybe
it hit you guys as well, uh, that there are
so many groups that refer to themselves as the family.
The original title for today's episode it was going to
be what is the family? But we had to be
more specific because you know, different groups call themselves the family.

(01:09):
Our families call themselves the family, are not even to
mentioned like bluegrass groups like the Carter Family, or like
the Handsome Family, or what Happen Manson family right cults
as well. For a lot of listening today, this kind
of moniker sounds cultish. Today's stories a little bit different.
It could touch on cults, It could touch on secret societies.

(01:32):
It's kind of in the eye of the beholder, and
we'd like your opinion on it. So we are going
on a journey strap in. Here are the facts. Political influence, right,
big money, A lot of stuff happens with it. It
comes from a plethora of organizations, some of which are
more transparent than others. Plethora, by the way, means an overabundance,

(01:54):
so much of something that it's too much. And here
in the United States, special interest groups use lobbyists to
gain legislative support. And I can't believe it. No, we
still have not done an episode on lobbyists or lobbying,
even though it's a weird thing. It's come up, for sure,
like a piece of mail here and there. But I
think it's might be time for a deep time. And

(02:15):
some of our fellow listeners on our Facebook community page
Here's where it Gets Crazy also pointed out we have
yet to do an mk Ultra episode. That's not possible.
I it's maybe it's one of those things where we're
having a bit of a Mandela effect because it's come
up in so many things. Uh, most recently and UH
we touched vaguely in the same sphere In our interview

(02:36):
with Russell Targ, it also came up with Targ that
maybe it'd be fun to do an mk Ultra esque
episode with him as a guest talking about LSD research
in general. Yep, yep, yep, with Sydney Gottlieb r right,
because they worked together in the United States with this,

(02:57):
with this lobbying thing. For anyone who's not familiar with
in the US, it is legal for a an individual
or a group of people, whether that's UM, whether that's
a local community activist group, or whether it's something big
like the Koke Brothers, it's legal for them to try

(03:18):
to convince members of Congress to vote for things that
they think will make themselves where the country better off.
And since mind control is not really a universally accepted thing,
it's technically legal for them to use that as well.
I guess. So now some people will falsely claim that
one lobby now they're they're hundreds and hundreds of these.

(03:39):
Some people will say that one lobby or another in
particular exerts undue influence on the United States government. Typically,
these claims are meant to paint the agenda of giving
group as inherently corrupt, smear tactics, smear tactics exactly somebody,
And and this goes across the political spectrum. Somebody will say, well,

(04:00):
you know, the n r A secretly runs the US government,
or they'll say a pack secretly runs the US government.
But if we talk about pure traceable and that's important funding.
The biggest lobbies as of ten are not geopolitical, and
they're not really pushing a lot of the hot button

(04:21):
issues that are so popular and divisive in the public eye.
You know, it's not gun controller gun rights, it's not
pro life or pro choice. As a matter of fact,
it's not anything about partnerships with a foreign country. The
biggest lobbying dollars come predominantly from the medical industry. Yeah,
it's like it's like that great quote from the Wire.
You follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug deals,

(04:42):
but you start to follow money and you don't know
where that rabbit hole is gonna take you. Perfect yes,
and in so astute, honestly, the top five we have
a list. The top five are the US Chamber of Commerce. Right,
you recognize the Chamber of Commerce. It's a business trade group.
You probably have one in your city. Right when there's

(05:02):
one even here in Atlanta, the Metro Atlantic Chamber of Commerce.
Then there's the National Association of Realtors, which is a
little surprising, but there's a lot of money in real estate.
And then the other three are all healthcare or medicine related.
You got your Blue Cross, Blue Shield, you got your
American Hospital Association, and you've got your Pharmaceutical Research and

(05:25):
Manufacturers of America, all very innocuous sounding names. And people
have listened to our previous episode on the opioid crisis,
Will will probably look askance at that last one, the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. That's what I'm saying.
There's so straightforward, innocuous sounding names that have the potential

(05:45):
to be the top of the umbrella of some very
nefarious activities. Not a conspiracy theory, absolutely a fact. People
are going to jail or at least paying serious money
for crimes there. Yeah, yeah, And the big question is
will they be the right people right? Will they be
the brains of the operation just some patsies and just
some patsies, some scapegoats. We also see the emergence of

(06:08):
super packs. These are political action committees. They've opened the
door for massive amounts of money. But again, for the
most part, without making an entire episode about lobbying just yet.
For the most part, this is all very legal and
very cool. There are other more secretive groups, however, influencing
American politicians. These groups have agendas that may be unfamiliar

(06:31):
to most American citizens. Their cash and their influence are
also much more difficult to trace. They're not necessarily filing
a lot of reports. It's tough to follow the money.
And this might sound like a fanciful conspiracy theory, but
according to journalist Jeff Charlotte, at least one of these
shadowy groups is very much real, incredibly effective, and quite

(06:56):
possibly dangerous. Let's meet the Emily after a word from
our sponsors, why not. Here's where it gets crazy. So
the Family they've got another name too, right, Yeah, they're
called like the what is it? The Fellowship, not of

(07:18):
the Ring necessarily it was low hanging fruit there, Yeah,
I know, the Fellowship. Um. They are in fact a
nonprofit evangelical Christian organization. But the issue is their members
regularly denied that this group exists in the first place.
In a book called The Family, The Secret Fundamentalism at
the heart of American power. Jeff Charlotte really digs deep

(07:41):
into the secret and puts it as such. Quote. They
believe they are most effective if they don't seek publicity
and they minister to those who they consider what they
call the up and up or key key men in
positions of influence, if they minister to them privately beyond
the public eye. So to hear Charlotte describe vibe their tactics,

(08:01):
they tend to manage to direct ministry as opposed to open,
publicly observable ministry, directly to folks who they consider. They
have these terms like up and out or key men
in other words, people in positions of influence or power. Um,
if they minister them in private, beyond the public eye,

(08:23):
that gives them. Uh, it's a weird situation. It's like
a direct line to these individuals as opposed to them
having to attend a church that could be observed and
reported on. Is that right then? Would yeah? Yeah, absolutely,
because it depends on who we It depends on the
key man in question, and again these overwhelmingly going to

(08:47):
be dudes, key dudes. What we found is that until
Jeff Charlotte wrote this expose, you would be hard pressed
to find a lot of information about the family. But
now thing to him, we have it. The family's origin
dates all the way back to the nineteen thirties. N. Five.
There's a preacher named Abraham Veri Day and he experiences

(09:10):
what he believes as a vision from God. So God
speaks to Abraham and says, Christianity, it's been getting it
wrong for two thousand years. It's been getting it wrong, Abraham,
because it's got an undue focus on the poor in
the week and the down and out. What's all this
focus is unlike helping the poor and ministering to the

(09:32):
to the downtrodden of the world. No, no, no no, no,
no no, I say to you, Abraham, not that Abraham,
this Abraham, Abraham V Abraham V. What God actually wants
for for you to do, Abraham, um and those who
you deem worthy, is to minister to what he refers
to God as the up and out or the key

(09:53):
men right, the movers, the shakers, the geopolitical bakers, as
it were. So he partners up with a businessman named
Walter Douglas and they begin a weekly breakfast meeting. It
starts with nineteen executives, and during this time they do pray.
They have breakfast, and they pray for divine intervention to

(10:14):
redeem Seattle and crush the unions as the True God
would want them. To fast forward a little bit, a
little bit later, uh right now. The Family's most public
gathering is the famous National Prayer Breakfast. You've heard about
this all the time. It happens the in the on
the first Thursday of every February. It's been attended by

(10:38):
multiple US presidents, every president since Eisenhower's gone. They created
this as a recruiting device for their organization. Back in
the nineties and fifties. They were planning it, and their
goal was to normalize this idea of prayer at the
center of American political life, specifically Christian prayer, and they

(10:59):
wanted this be so normal that people would take it
for granted. The first National Prayer Breakfast occurred in nineteen
fifty three and Eisenhower attended, albeit reluctantly. He owed a
debt to Billy Graham because Billy Graham had worked with
the Family to swing the evangelical vote for Eisenhower. And

(11:19):
that's back when Southern evangelicals didn't vote Republican. So he
went and his idea was, look, I'm paying off a favor.
I don't want any press. I don't want this to
become a thing essentially, but become a thing. It did. See,
the family had tried this before with both Truman and

(11:41):
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and they both said no. But it
became a tradition because one president said yes, and now
it's the same. It's the family's only public event and
it is a p R cavalcades president saying yes. No, no,
I mean not really. I guess it's just the the

(12:04):
way that politics work here currently. If one president says
yes to something faith based, especially Christian based, and another
president says, I'm not doing it. But now, wouldn't you
say that this is sort of the beginnings of the
power of the evangelical vote that is now such an
important base in Republican circles. It's definitely, it's definitely a

(12:26):
facet of it. No religious vote, the religious vote is
not necessarily a uniform block. It can swing in different directions,
of course, of course. But yeah, this is this is
a huge um, a huge piston in the engine of elections.
Not to install anyone's intelligence. But should we really quickly
define what makes evangelical Christianity sure different than just standard Christianity? Sure?

(12:48):
I mean I I've always thought of it as just
being a more uh strict adherence to the Gospels and
just like a little bit more of a I don't know,
pedantic sounds like an negative world, but I guess it
just means a little bit almost like strict constructionism of
the Constitution, you know, where you take everything literally and
that face value is that is that your understanding then?

(13:10):
So from an outsider's perspective, it's the difference is Protestantism
is just being in protest against the Roman Catholic Church.
The evangelical perspective stresses personal conversion, right like being born again?

(13:30):
Ah ha, right, got it? Now, please write to us.
I know we have several religious studies scholars and experts
here in the audience, so it would be great to
hear the breakdown of the of the nuances here, right,
And I'm sure it's something that has evolved over time,
as as has the voting party of choice for this book,

(13:50):
as as mentioned here. Yeah, yeah, good point. So the
thing about this National Prayer Breakfast is that, as the
family has described, it is a recruiting device. The actual
breakfast does happen on that first Thursday, but it is
surrounded by a week long, um deluge of lobbying events.

(14:14):
We're talking three thousand dignitaries who come from all around
the world and from all sorts of corporate interest. They
all pay. Get that. I thought this is a pretty
low price. I think we could actually go, you guys,
if we all, if we all make it a thing. Um.
They pay four hundred and twenty five dollars each to
attend for the breakfast. But it comes with a breakfast, right,

(14:34):
I know, Yeah, it does come with a breakfast. I
don't know if it's a buffet thing. I don't know
if there's like salmon, Are there eggs, benedict? Is it
gonna be? Is there a bagel bar? Will there be
an omelet? Station? Four is a lot, you know, And
I've been to some swank buffet's. I actually I would
prefer a buffet if I'm paying four d twenty five dollars,

(14:55):
you know, because because I would try to eat fo
get some crab legs on there. Yeah, so this this
is just for the ticket to the buffet, and for
most people the breakfast is just that you have some
muffins and some praying. But a lot of people stay
on for days and days of seminars organized around the

(15:17):
message that they think Jesus Christ, the the actual Jesus
Christ has for particular industries. Yeah. Yeah, the key industry is,
no doubt right exactly. Uh the industry is I suppose,
I don't know. This is interesting. This is sure sounds
like a central leader who had this one on one

(15:38):
with God and then a sort of allowing himself to
be the conduit to God between God and his followers,
and he gets to decide what God's agenda is. Uh,
let's see if if that's the direction that's going. Um,
it sure sounds like it. So we have, um, the
oil industry being a biggie right Um. And the defense industry,

(16:00):
defense contractors and and many others also hold events. Um,
we've got foreign dignitaries that are just thirsty for access
to all of these powerful, powerful arms manufacturers, the energy industry.
Let me adam. Let's say you're Boeing, right, or you're

(16:21):
a working member of Congress, and Boeing is big in
the state or district, you represent, but the optics of
and you want to sell some stuff, but the the
optics towards your voters would would would just be um
fatal to your political career if they saw you selling
or facilitating the cell of some sort of technology. To

(16:44):
like a dictator, the gentleman must remain neutral, right right,
right right? Do you see your time? The gentleman seats,
I do not. I love I love parliamentary procedure. It
so hard I have tried to hitch it in my
personal life. I don't think too you guys, just in
conversation at the bar, it would be a lot of fun. Yeah,

(17:07):
I would like the gentlemen's time has expired. Does the
gentleman seed his time? The gentleman does not seed his time.
It would be a lot of fun. I say that now,
But we'd have to take it out on the road
and try it, and probably shouldn't do it during a
live show. We should just do it we're hanging out.
But anyhow, yes, you're absolutely right. They the group's real

(17:30):
strength lies in its influential members working too facilitate this networking,
but also to push their agenda, which will get to
in a second. Critics will tell you that the MPB
or National Prayer Breakfast is used by the Family to
essentially circumvent the State Department. The meetings read like a

(17:51):
Rhodes gallery. Charlotte called it a who's who of nasty figures,
people who might not otherwise be able to go have
a conversation with an arms manufacturer or um nuclear power,
a nuclear power conglomerate. Right. So they have this vision

(18:13):
as as you, as we established earlier, they have this
vision of Jesus as a strong man, as a dictator,
Jesus Christ, that is, and of helping not the sheep,
but helping the wolves because they're more powerful. And the
family believes that anyone who has in power like that,

(18:34):
or those those people who are dictators and such, that
they are there because they are supposed to be, that
they have been anointed by God to be in charge,
and so they want to broker power. And this is
this is weird, right, But these dictators and you can
you can find list of suspected and confirmed members. These

(18:55):
dictators in many cases are the same people that the
US publicly shuns, including including the Russian government that came
to head quite recently. It turns out that the National
Prayer Breakfast is home to a Russian connection. Do you
think they offer a little borshed on the on the

(19:17):
on the buffet? You know what. The hardest thing for
me to find in all the research here, and I
don't know if you found it yet either. I couldn't
find the menu. And when we're talking about the buffet,
I started. I try not to not to mess around
too much on the computer when we're recording. Nope, but
I had to try to search again and I could
not find the menu. Serious, and it's haunting me because

(19:39):
what if you're paying for dollars just for muffins? I
just typed in who caters the National Prayer? Oh good,
that's the way to go at it. Let's see. Ah,
now we've got who attends, who spoke. I don't care
about any of that. I want to know who caters it. Uh. Nope, Man,

(20:00):
that is the most closely guarded secrets surrounding this entire event. Man,
we should do an episode entirely on the menu at
the National Prayer Breakfast. Well, let us have to use
our imagination. I'm hoping that it's a little bit a
cut above like Shawney's Breakfast Buffet. You know, and I'm hoping, yeah,
I'm hoping for seafood. And I'm hoping they have some
international choices for their foreign dignitaries, because that's that would
only be fair, That would only be fair. Yeah, especially

(20:23):
when considered cultural dietary restrictions and source. And also the
fact that like our idea of breakfast, I may have
to get it on a high horse here. But we've
had this conversation. Breakfast food, you know, here is such
a specific thing. In other countries. They like regular food
for breakfast, like an Asian country especially, it's all like,
you know, rice and noodles and things of any any
other time of the day. And I support that wholeheartedly. Yeah,

(20:44):
me too, Me too. I mean, if Edward Bernese had
not come along, breakfast in the US would be a
much different affair. But let's get back to this Russian connection.
So remember Maria Boutina recently came up in the news
as being and agent of a foreign government. According to
the affidavit from the Department of Justice, she used the

(21:06):
National Prayer breakfast twice to uh to set up some
back door diplomacy between members of the US government and
members of the Russian power structure. She even brought prayer
breakfast organizers with her to Moscow, where Charlotte suspects that
they they brainstormed the guest list for the Russian delegation.

(21:31):
They saw her as access to and from the Family's perspective,
we have to understand this is sort of the work
that they pursue. They feel they are right in doing this.
Tensions are high between the US and Russia, and the
family sees itself as a power broker but also a peacemaker.
So they think these two uh strong men, for lack

(21:53):
of better phrasation, meat and hammer things out and that
then Jesus Christ or God will shape these things to
what is appropriate and Christian. So as far as they're concerned,
they were not helping a Russian spy. They were helping
bring peace between two worthy and strong leaders. They again

(22:15):
believe that if you were in power, you are supposed
to be there. You're in power because God put you there,
never mind the voters. It's dangerous attitude. Really is in
a slippery slope, my friend. So we mentioned their agenda
right now, what what exactly is there is their agenda? Well,
according to our writer Pal Charlotte. The family believes that

(22:37):
most Christians tend to misread, misinterpret the New Testament, and
that at the heart of Christ's message was a message
of not not peace, not kindness to the poor and downtrodden,
but power, pure, abject unbridled power. Not love, no power

(22:57):
right right love through power assive read, very aggressive read
of Christ. Because we think of Jesus as this kind
of barefoot hippie. Well, I mean, we know he had
in a temper with like flipping over the tables and
the money changes and all that, and we knew that
he meant business. But he's always been like kind of
made out to seem like more of a you know, uh,

(23:17):
affecting change through non violence kind of way, and more
like changing hearts and minds rather than wielding some sort
of iron fist right right, helping the poor and downtrodden,
the lepers, those outcasts from society. No no, no, no, no,
no, no no, no no no, say the members of the family.
And then, according to an article by Lisa Guetta in
The l A Times, the group wants to take this

(23:39):
family global, a family of friends that will spread their
agenda across the world. And when we when we see
a global family of friends, we have to realize that,
like many organizations, we can think of it being arranged
in concentric circles or domains. So, according to former nix

(24:00):
Neate and Watergate fell in Charles W. Coulson, the family
numbered uh in the nineteen seventy nine family numbered about
twenty thou people, although the number of dedicated associates around
the globe was much smaller, maybe as much as a
three hundred and fifty in two thousand and six. So

(24:21):
you can buy a ticket to the prayer breakfast and
it doesn't make you like a member of the organization,
right exactly? I would imagine do you apply to become
a member? Do you have to be invited? Is it
very closed door policy? I think you need to be
in power for them to have interest. It got to
be a key people. Yeah, yeah, it's it's not for
somebody who just came for the salmon, which is again
would be me right. So it's almost more of a

(24:44):
Builderberg or by Trilateral Commission kind of situation, right close, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's similar. So they have a closely guarded database of
these associates, members and keyban, but they don't issue cards,
they collect no official dues, and members are asked not
to speak about the group or its activities. Um a

(25:05):
member the Family's inner circle once said to the group's
chief South African operative, the movement is simply inexplicable to
people who are not intimately acquainted with it. The first
rule of breakfast Club. You don't talk about breakfast Club literally,
the first rule. Yes. Yes. So they say that their

(25:29):
initiatives have always been misunderstood by outsiders and that they
learned the hard way to never commit to paper any
discussions or negotiations. There are no such things as confidential
memos because if you write something down, it will inevitably leak.
So they urge people not to put anything relating to

(25:49):
any of the work they're doing on paper unless you
know the reciprian well enough to put. Please destroy after
reading at the top of the page. Not exactly free
and clear transparency. See they ought to do it. Inspect
your gadget style. That's message well self destruct. Yes, that
would be pretty cool. Yes they should. So they are

(26:12):
longtime leader Doug co who ministered in private and lead
the organization kind of behind the scenes. He had a
pretty rare interview in two thousand one, and he said,
if I told you who has participated and who participates
until this day, you would not believe it. You'd say,
you mean that scoundrel, that despot. He passed away in

(26:35):
twenty seventeen. But the practice continues, the institution exists. And
this leads us to a question. Is this legal? I mean,
on the surface, it's not necessarily illegal. Right. People should
be able to get together and at breakfast have a chat,

(26:57):
and people constantly network, and sure, this secrecy is creepy,
but there are hundreds of religious groups working to bring
their values to a wider audience, you know what I mean.
There's uh, you know, they're they're all. There's spaghetti dinners
across the world, their breakfast meetings in and at churches
all the time, and a lot of nonprofits and charities

(27:18):
have religious roots as well. With this in mind, the
family is not really unique, right, Yeah, I mean I
have a question for you man. We you mentioned the
name of Coulson, right, is the name of their their
high level are the names of their high level people,
their board or whatever you wanna call it. Is that
public information or do they keep that pretty much pretty

(27:39):
under wraps? Too. They keep a lot of it pretty tight.
We do know that membership includes people are serving in
the US government, like Pence is a member being Commander
in chief. Donald Trump and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton
all attended the National Prayer Breakfast. But how intimately involved
were they? We know Hillary Clinton for a long long

(28:02):
time received personal ministry services from Doug co. So that
that's the part that we have to emphasize here. The
family itself, their mission fuels politicized with a trend towards
you know, what they see as strong, powerful authoritarians, but
there fan club goes across all sides of the political

(28:25):
My question is, what is this personal ministry business? What
does that look like? Is that like hitting a house call? Yeah,
I mean, I don't know, man, it's a closed door thing.
You know, it's the come into my office, close the door.
Let's pray together about the best way to help raytheon
make a sale. You know, I don't know, I don't know.

(28:46):
I'm being a little glib, but but we should talk
about what the critics say and where this institution operates.
After a word from our sponsor, we're back. So here's

(29:07):
the thing. A lot of critics say, what's your take
on this? A lot of critics say that there's more
than breakfast going on. It's not just a Meg's Benedict.
They are you saying they have lunch items as well?
Then not in public behind the closed doors, though there
could be sandwiches that could be like a deli tray.

(29:28):
Some soups are off barbecue. I love the idea of
this being an exclusively food based organizations. I love that too.
Uh So, the fear is that they may be influencing
politicians and voters have no control over their behavior. Whatever.
That's what that's what the critics say. But I mean,
isn't that like we're talking about lobbying. Isn't that what
lobbying is in general? Right? We don't have access to

(29:52):
the lobbyist because they're paid by the corporations to interface
directly with politicians, and we can sort of say, hey,
politics atitions, please let me write you're a letter and
my congressman, please don't be swayed by the siren song
of lobbyists. But that's something I take this. I don't
know I see exactly what you're saying, though, Like if
we if we got together and we crowdfunded five dollars

(30:16):
from each of us and everyone listening. Then we we
could make a donation to a politician and then get
their attention to say here's what I think you should
do about a certain issue. Yeah, but Ben, even you
saying that it requires a donation goes against the entire system.
It's there supposed to listen to our phone calls, whether
we give them money or not. That's what I'm saying.

(30:38):
I think we're on the same page. I think our
glibness are our glibnesses are aligned. We've earned this citizens,
and I think so where where do they operate? Though?
Do they do they just stay in d C? No,
I think not, Ben, because they need to branch out.
They need to wield these powers beyond washing in d C.

(31:00):
And where do they do this. That's a very important question,
especially in a modern nation that prizes the separation of
church and state. We haven't even talked about that because
that's the thing too. Lobbying is one thing, but at
least that doesn't necessarily go against the separation of church
and state. This, on the other hand, very very weird
gray area, especially when it has such across the aisle

(31:21):
kind of support you know, at least in terms of
like the optics of it. So here the question to
the Family's supporters, this organization as an ability to bridge
political gaps and unite antagonistic groups through a mutual spiritual understanding. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's the thing. We have examples of the kind

(31:46):
of scandals they've encountered. They're most well known probably for now.
It came about in two thousand and nine. Some investigators
claimed the family had, through their key men, influenced Uganda's
anti homosexuality legislation. This was this is a series of
laws that allowed the death penalty for people who, you know,

(32:13):
we're attracted to the same sex, or also for quote
harboring a known homosexual. So let's say you've got a
friend or a family member and they are gay, and
you live in Uganda, and they say they're coming to
kill me because of my sexual orientation, and you say,

(32:33):
that's fine, just hide here and we'll wait till the
soldiers leave. If they are found, then the way the
law was written, uh the way the law was proposed,
then not only the person they were searching for, but
the person hiding that person would be put to death.
That legislation was recently changed, I believe, yes, yeah, yeah,

(32:57):
but they were instrumental in pushing it through. Not to
mention that if you I just typed in. There's a
website called Focus on the Family. UM. I don't know
if it's their direct website, but it's definitely affiliated with them,
And they have a resource page called when a loved
One Says I'm Gay Research List, and it has things
like titles like bringing Home the Prodigals, uh is God

(33:19):
Anti gay? And other questions about homosexuality. Um. The secret
thoughts of an unlikely convert an English Professor's journey into
Christian faith. It it feels largely like there is a negative,
inherently negative spin on the treatment of LGBT individuals in
the church. Yeah. Absolutely. The thing is that because they're

(33:42):
pushing this power based authoritarian agenda, of course they will
naturally tend to gravitate toward UH despots, towards dictators, but
they see this as an effort of reconciliation. They also,

(34:03):
for instance, they helped persuade South African Zulu chief both
Alasy to avoid civil war with Nelson Mandela and their
defenders such as former President George W. Bush have praised
their work, and they say, yeah, they're out of the
public sphere, but they're making the world a better place
because they're stopping war. And this leads us to the

(34:26):
question just how much influence does the family wield in Washington,
d C. You know, like you said. The supporters say
it can bridge political gaps and unite antagonistic groups. But
to the critics, this kind of combination of political power
and religious zeal historically leads to disaster and there are

(34:52):
some very strong precedents for that throughout human civilization. And
for critics, the most important and most frightening part of
the entire equation is that citizens everywhere it can be
affected by this secretive legislation process without having any input
upon it, like Uganda may just be the tip of

(35:14):
the proverbial iceberg. Uh. There there are other things like
um the youth Core, which is a network of Christian
youth groups that attract teenagers and then later steer them
to Jesus. And this this youth core is active in
places like Russia, Ukraine, Romania, India, Pakistan, Uganda of course

(35:38):
now Paul Bhutan, Ecuador, Honduras and Peru. This is big stuff.
We might not hear about it a lot here in
the States other than that national prayer breakfast, but powerful
geopolitical things are happening outside of the public eye. And
at this point we know the family is still working
quietly behind the scenes in the US and abroad, but

(35:59):
on what specifically for now, that's something they don't want
you to know. I have to ask you, though, do
you think this kind of thing should be legal or illegal?
It feels like a loophole to me. I mean, it
feels like extra legal in a lot of ways, because
lobbying is not is not illegal, but we are supposed

(36:22):
to have separation of church and state, and it feels
like hiding behind the guys of like this feel good
kind of let's bridge the gap between the aisle, when
it also has this legacy that sort of forces participation
because of not wanting to offend the evangelical voter base.
And it just feels kind of inherently like dirty money.

(36:46):
I don't I don't like it. I don't like it
one but especially when you consider their ideology and they're
very exclusionary attitude towards um, lgbt Q or the poor
exactly mean, it's It's just it feels like a very
like Tom Cruise's character in Uh Magnolia, kind of pyramid scheme,

(37:07):
reinterpretation of something that you know. Say what you will
about Christianity. I think at its heart there is goodness.
There is a sort of do one too others mentality,
and people use it in all kinds of horrible ways.
But I think at it's heart there's a good message.
There is some in some parts of the Bible. It
feels to me like a little bit of a bastardization
of that and turning it into a tool to manipulate

(37:28):
people more than more than even some forms of Christianity. Well,
tell us what you think. We hope that you enjoyed
this episode, and we want to hear from you. Have
you encountered other secretive organizations like this and how much
influence do they actually wield. You can let us know
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(37:49):
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I believe operating under the account k Kylie Jenner. Kylie Jenner. Yeah,

(38:13):
I had no idea that was It's true, but it
makes sense when you think about it. Do you have
any idea how much money he gets for one single
Instagram post? It's outrageous. That's what he's doing right now,
He's off negotiating Instagram post. Yeah, some kind of facial cleanser.
So if you would like to call us directly, we'd
love to hear from you. We have a phone number.
It's one eight three three std W y t K.

(38:39):
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