February 2, 2018 • 54 mins
Sure, we worked way too hard for that pun in the title, but it's a serious question: CERN, or the European Organization for Nuclear Research is one of the world's largest, most prominent centres for scientific research. The experts at CERN use the world's largest and most complex scientific instruments to study the fundamental building blocks of matter, and over the years it's become the subject of numerous rumors, allegations, concerns and conspiracy theories. Join the guys as they delve into the fact, fiction and controversy surrounding CERN and the Large Hadron Collider.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello,
(00:24):
and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
They call me Ben. We are joined with our super
producer Paul decant uh Null is a way for the moment,
but will return soon as long as time still works
the way that we conventionally understand it. Most importantly, you
are you that makes this stuff they don't want you
(00:46):
to know. And I will get rid of this pun
at the very top, because Matt and our super producer
Paul are already so tired of hearing me say it.
Today's title is should we be Concerned? Yes, concerned? And
for some reason, ce er N is capitalized in that title,
and that reason is that we're talking about an organization that,
(01:10):
if you are like most human beings on this planet
now with an Internet connection, you have heard of CERN.
It's an organization that has constructed something that you may
have also heard of called the Large Hadron Collider. Yes, yes, sir,
the Large Hadron Collider. That's what it's most well known for.
It And yeah, that wasn't you know, was it best
(01:34):
for us to just get that point out? And I
think we had to, But I'm also in love with
the title. So okay, well, I promise I won't I
won't push it too much. Yes, you you probably remember
hearing for years now about CERN and the large Hadron Collider,
and you've probably seen some frankly garbage explanations on mainstream
(01:58):
news about how that works in non mainstream news and
probably in non mainstream news as well. And uh, you
have hopefully also checked out some wonderful, in depth explanations
about what this thing is and what it does, and
will address some of that as well. But first we
(02:19):
want to establish the certain is responsible for much more
than a single, incredibly significant series of experiments. Yeah, it's
essentially responsible for the creation of what we know as
the Worldwide Web, that WWW that you type in sometimes
when you're using a computer, you're a lot of times
not on your phone. Uh, yeah, it did that in right. Yes.
(02:43):
The Web was originally conceived by Tim Berners Lee, and
it was developed to meet this demand for automatic information
sharing between scientists and universities and institutes around the world.
Just the thing we always talk about in the past.
If you're a scientist and you're working on some research,
you just have your research and what was written down
(03:04):
and you have access to and if you can send
that information that you're working on immediately to everybody else
and you can get everybody else's changing the game. And
so this really helped research at the time when it
had a sort of rarefied or very specific set of
users and a specific set of desires. And of course
(03:26):
they all said, we this is great. We should do
this with everything, and we should have everyone check it out.
What could go wrong? Yeah, it'll be fine, right, and uh,
you know, now now the Internet is what it is,
which is also changing. And I just want to go
on record here there's nothing to it today's episode. Uh,
(03:46):
and saying that as a personal opinion, any any ideologies
or politics aside. Uh, the fccs decision to sell the
American people down the river is just that a massive
trail and it's going to be terrible. Yeah. The day
prior to recording this episode, the FCC voted to strike
(04:09):
down the net neutrality rules that were put in place
on to the Obama administration, and that essentially the Internet
has been functioning on for its the entire existence just
being open and access to information is just for anybody
who has a connection. And I would be really curious
to see whether you or Paul or Noel uh support
(04:32):
the f c c S. I guess they would call
it a quote unquote decision for the quote unquote good
because it's rare that I'm going to be so open
with an opinion about this thing. But if you, if
you have kids, you should be concerned because we often
hear from organizations around the world about the dangers of
(04:52):
inequality in an economic sense. But history has proven, and
sadly the future will prove that an inequality of access
to information is at least as dangerous as lack of
access to the coupon system we practice today. Okay, yeah, sorry,
(05:14):
I'm doing like hot takes left right on a good note, Matt.
When we were looking at some of this background for
certain it made me recall another another series that you
and I used to do, Stuff of Genius. Yeah, we
did do stuff of genius for a while there. We
looked at inventors that were lesser known and the cool
things that they created that have shaped our world and civilization.
(05:38):
And here's the thing, it's an animated show. Yeah, animated
on Final Cut Pro seven what photoshop by Matt Mattman
Frederick mostly Tyler Klang. And if you if you do
some digging, you can find episodes that Matt did the
(06:00):
voice work on as well. Right, are they still out there?
You can find them somewhere. Yeah, they exist. So do
check out stuff of Genius and let us let us
know what you think because we had we had a
lot of fun doing that one. And don't forget the
coolest stuff on the planet, which was Matt who don't
ever search for that? Okay, it's too late. Next, next,
(06:22):
the first website at CERN, Yes, exactly what you want
to talk about instead of coolest stuff on the planet. Well,
next was the computer, right Tim berners Lee, the gentleman
who was working with CERN. He created this first website
which was essentially about the web itself. This is how
you use this service. These are all the things you
(06:44):
need to do to access other people's documents, how to
set up your own server. It's like in f a Q. Yeah, exactly.
It was the world's first website. Yes. So the next
machine and that is Capital in Little e Capital xpital
t is still at certain. Isn't that correct? Yeah, really
(07:05):
cool And uh, it's been there for so long, it's
really neat that in Certain actually reinstated the website, the
original first website, to its original address and you can
go there right now if you want to to check
it out. Check it out today, folks. And that website
is info dot c r N dot c H. Check
(07:28):
it out. And and Paul, what we're talking about that
is there sort of a retro sci fi music que
you could throw in perfect he's so good at that,
you are so good at that, Paul so certain has
done a ton of things throughout the years. We mentioned
this already. We talked about the first website, awesome. We
(07:50):
talked about the collider to large Hadron collider that they
will get into later. There are other things that they
discovered through experimentation, things like things that I don't fully
understand I just to be honest with you, um, things
like w n Z bosons that I, you know, sure,
I think I kind of understand what that means, but
(08:13):
not really. And before that, they discovered neutral currents in
this thing called the gargamel bubble chamber, which sounds like
a villain of some sort, but you know, that's that's fine.
Gargamel from the Smurfs, right, Gargamel wasn't gargamel bad in
the Smurfs, The character Gargamell was bad. Yes, Uh, like
(08:35):
Gargamell itself was a heavy liquid bubble chamber detector that
was operating for nine years in the seventies. It was
trying to detect neutrinos and anti neutrinos and it found
neutral currents. And it found neutral currents. Yeah, and of
course we're we're not physicists, though most people are not
(08:57):
as it turns out, but we do know that we
we do have a grasp of some of the experiments
that CERN has conducted. And what's important to note is
that it's not just the large hit John Collider. Uh.
They also created anti hydrogen atoms, which, again, as a
(09:20):
non physicist, to me that, you know, my thought is,
why would you do that? Why? Why would you We're
family shows, so I will say, why would you fuss
with things that we're fine? You know what I mean? Well,
because we have to find out Ben, that's what science
and all this is all about. We just got to
know um smarter people than I need to know. And
(09:44):
Matt according to numerous people, CERN may be responsible for
much much much so, much more so, much more, and
will explore the fact acts surrounding CERN after a word
from our sponsors, and we're back Matt. Earlier, when we
(10:13):
were off air, you and I talked about when to
just explain what CERN was, and you were completely right,
my old friend. We should have done it at the
top of the show. I don't, I don't know if
we're right. I see there's a bit of a an
elongation that it's just keeping you on the edge of
your seat, like, what is CERN? It turns out that
(10:34):
CERN is an acronym for the Council Open polary Chech Nuclear,
which I am not pronouncing very well. Oa. What does
that mean in English? It means the European Organization for
Nuclear Research. And as we as we said before, it's
most well known for its massive thing called a large
(10:56):
hadron collider. It is not an ironic name. It's not,
you know, like a little John sort of moniker. It's
it's describing a massive particle accelerator. And you, like many people,
friends and neighbors, listeners, um demons and angels out there
in the audience, maybe wondering what the heck is a
(11:19):
particle accelerator. We're very glad you asked. So. Essentially, it's
a machine that speeds up with using magnets, giant magnets
that were they're like nineteen hundred tons or more tons.
I don't know exactly what. It's huge, these giant magnets,
they speed up and increase the energy of a beam
(11:42):
of particles, and they generate these electric fields that accelerate
these particles. It just basically continue to accelerate them going
around a large loop, and the magnetic fields that they
have surrounding kind of the track that they send these
particles around. It's just it's accelerating them and steering them
and focusing them down into a tiny little beam and
(12:05):
then they smash them together. Tight. Yeah, I told you
about this right have. Accidentally I've been falling into this scene.
You know how, sometimes words, just as concepts are, are
mimetic entities of a type, and sometimes slang from the
(12:29):
past or from a different language just sort of gets
stuck in your mind like a splinter in your finger. Yeah,
and so tight has been stuck in my head and
I am trying to tamp it down. But that was
an excellent explanation that was Okay, I think we got
through it. So there are a couple of different types
(12:49):
of these accelerators that have been used and built in
the past. One of them is a linear accelerator or
a linear accelerator, and that's where a beam of particles
travels essentially in a straight line. I mean it makes sense, right,
linear from one end to the other end. Yeah, And
with these you can have maybe two of them that
(13:10):
are on either side of this line, and you shoot
the beams at each other and they hit in the center,
and that's when you're doing your experimentation, right at that
center point where they're colliding. Yeah, that makes sense. Then
you got these circular accelerators like the large hydron collider
that have this ring essentially a circle of sorts that
(13:31):
they the particles just travel around this thing, accelerating, accelerating,
just getting faster and faster and faster and faster. They
reach a point where it's getting pretty close to stuff
we would observe with what we believe to be the
big bang, and they smash them together, and that that
point of smashing is where they do their major testing
smash point. Yeah, it's a smash point. It's pretty tight.
(13:54):
Oh no, I've spread I've spread the my my linguistic
disease to you, and I apologize. In two thousand and eight,
speaking of segways, Certain built the large Hadron Colyder. It's
not only seven kilometers in length. It is a It
is a circular accelerator, as Matt described earlier. Uh, it
(14:17):
is also the world's most powerful accelerator as we record
this now at the very end of it has a
it has the super conducting magnets, and it has a
number of other ancillary structures built to accelerate the energy
of the particles along the way and inside the accelerator
(14:40):
there are these two high energy beams, particle beams that
are traveling it close to the speed of light before
they finally hit one another. It's crazy to think about
so cool that we could even achieve that it is.
It's astonishing just to be frank with you and and
being in since I'm being since here in that point um.
(15:00):
The beams travel in opposite directions in separate pipes separate
beam pipes, which is the phrase that Certain uses beam
beam pipes. The tubes are kept at an ultra high vacuum.
They're guided around by the magnetic field produced by those
superconductive magnets. And the electromagnets themselves are built from these
(15:24):
coils of a cable that virtually conducts electricity without resistance
or loss of energy. So these are very, very efficient.
And to make these magnets, these super cool magnets that
are super cool on several levels, right right, Uh, what
(15:49):
do you have to do? Well? It has to be
the environment has to be extremely cold. The magnets themselves
have to be crazy cold. It requires the magnets ben
get have two hundred and seventy one point three degrees celsius. Uh,
that's a temperature colder than outer space. Let's say you're
on a spacewalk as an astronaut. It is colder in
(16:12):
these supermagnets, or these these supermagnets are colder than you
would be if you were standing outside in outer space.
So two hundred and seventy one degree celsius is about
five hundred and nineteen point eight degrees fahrenheit. So it's
minus that minus that, which which is insane but is
(16:34):
the nature of the business in the LHC. I guess
we can start calling it that now. Yeah, yeah, I
think we know it well enough that the LHC was
designed for a couple of different things, but one of
its primary purposes was to prove the existence of something
called the Higgs bosun. And I can tell you what
(16:57):
it is real briefly if you want, Yeah, please you.
I would love to know. All right, So there is
the god particle. It has been called the God particle.
And you and I would hang out and wonder whether
this would lead to the end of the world because
we received emails about this plenty. We're going to borrow
some quotes from an excellent article called what exactly is
(17:21):
the Higgs Boson available at how stuff works dot com
by an author named Jonathan at Mary. So to understand
what the Higgs boson is, we need to examine the
theories describing the way the cosmos works. And we'll call
it the standard model. Also not an ironic name. Sounds good.
(17:44):
So here's the gist of the standard model when it
comes to us comes to our species around the early
nineteen seventies. The idea is that the entire universe, everything
you know, and everything you or your friends will ever encounter,
or your ancestor or your descendants. Capitally, everything is ultimately
made up of twelve different sorts of particles of matter
(18:08):
and four forces. In the twelve particles, you will encounter
six things called quarks and six things called leptons. Quarks
are what comprise protons and neutrons, while the things we
call leptons include electrons and the electron neutrino. Scientists think
(18:29):
that you cannot break leptons and quarks into smaller particles.
So far, so we've got those twelve particles, and then
we have four forces that sort of captain planet together
to make the universe run. Yeah, and that's gravity, which
you're probably aware of going up and going down, but
(18:50):
there's more to it than that electromagnetic force that's what
you see in magnets. Then you've got strong and weak forces,
and these are more of the nuclear forces, um that
have to do with the way adams interact. It gets
a little intense when you're getting down into those forces
and trying to truly understand them. And that's why being
(19:11):
a particle physicist is a high paying job and a
demanding one, right and a very important one. So we've
got those, let's let's focus on those four fundamental forces.
Scientists believe that each of those forces the mat just named,
have a corresponding carrier particle, which they call a boson
(19:33):
b O, S, O, N, that acts upon matter. And
there's a cool analogy in here. Some physicists have described
to bosons as weights anchored by mysterious rubber bands to
the matter particles that generate them. So we can think
of particles constantly snapping back out of existence in an instant,
(19:56):
yet equally capable of becoming entangled with other rubb or
bands attached to other boson's. Yeah, this is easy to
understand stuff. I feel like you're I guess this is
It's just it's very It's just difficult stuff to wrap
your head around. That's all because they were also describing
(20:17):
the movement of matter through the universe rights and the forces,
the forces acting upon that matter, and the rules of
the road for those forces. If they are like chess
pieces that can only move in certain directions. Yes, yes,
so that's what they're looking for. And they've been trying
to do this for a while, right, Yes, they have been.
(20:40):
Let's travel all the way back to nineteen fifty three,
to the sixth section the sixth session of the Certain Council,
which took place in Paris, m from June twenty nine
to July one. The convention established the organization was signed.
They were subject to ratification by twelve different states. That
can mention was gradually ratified by the founding member states.
(21:04):
We're talking Belgium, Denmark, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy,
the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and Yugoslavia
and your Slavia. So one one thing that's interesting about
this is that conspiracy theories or or fringe researchers see
this international cooperation as very strong, circumstantial evidence. That's something.
(21:32):
Oh I was going to say that something's rotten in Denmark,
but Shakespeare side, that doesn't imply. But that's the you know,
some people distrust that level of geopolitical cooperation. Yeah, so
many different governing entities having their hands in this, got it?
Or you know, it could just be humans working together
to do the coolest experiments possible. I really appreciate that point, Matt,
(21:56):
and I hope that's the case. I was just going
to argue that it was probably two weeks spensive for
each of those countries to afford on their own. But yeah,
shadowy cabral interested scientists, vultronning together, everybody figuring out how
to foot the bill. Regardless. On the seventeenth of May
(22:18):
and nineteen fifty four, they first broke Earth and Geneva
officials were watching members of the Certain staff we're watching.
Construction continues until September of the same year and CERN
officially comes into being located there in Switzerland. And today
(22:41):
you can find CERTAIN. It's still the same place. You
can view it on Google Earth. It's gigantic. It's based
in a suburb near Geneva on the border between France
and Switzerland. And currently it has twenty two members eights. Uh.
(23:01):
The United States is not a full member of CERN. Nope,
Israel is the only non European full member of CERN.
It has expanded from twelve to twenty two members states.
And in addition to the large hydron collider, these physicists,
that these engineers, some of the smartest people in the world,
(23:24):
are probing the fundamental structure of the universe. Yeah, they're
they're studying the basic the basic pieces of matter, the
things that are the building blocks that create this table
and these hands handsund Yeah, it's it's like we said,
(23:46):
we keep reiterating, it's incredibly cool. They're talking about colliding
you know, particles. That's what they do. They hang around
all day, they speed up particles to the speed of
light almost, and they smash them together and they see
what happens. Because without this sort of technology, physicists would
ultimately be participating in thought experiments, right. Yeah, And a
(24:09):
lot of it still is thought experiments that they're trying
to prove one way or the other by to to
transform a guess into observable science. Right. And one of
the really interesting things that you noted earlier, Matt as
you said, this is for me where science becomes magic.
(24:31):
This is like my Arthur C. Clerk threshold. Without directly
observable science at the very edges of theoretical science, what
what we encounter is is very close to mysticism or
or articles of faith. If you're a world expert on something,
(24:54):
your best guests automatically becomes leading theory exactly and at
is ultimately what they're testing at certain it's the fundamental
laws of nature that govern all matter and all existence,
and a lot of these are you know, they're testable
and provable to a certain extent, but then when you
(25:14):
get deeper and deeper and deeper down into the sub
atomic and then even deeper levels, it's harder to know
what is real and what's not. And that's why certain
is so important. Furthermore, that's why certain from many people
it's so frightening. Yes, get into something a little stranger
(25:34):
after a word from our sponsor that I have to
ask you because you and I were working together years
and years ago when a lot of news about the
large Hadron collider and the search for the Higgs boson
(25:57):
popped up in the mainstream. Well, what was your experience
like hearing that news? And as we were learning about
this around the time, the website dig was pretty big,
and I would go there all the time and they
would have updates essentially UM, and I would watch news
(26:17):
conferences that were live with updates from cern about you know,
they're getting the UM. The LHC is preparing to run
some tests, but they're having some issues with some of
the magnets. UM, let's see. I would watch with bated
breath with some of these press conferences where they're going
to announce something, and nothing came for a long time,
(26:40):
you know, nothing official about the Higgs boson um. But
then when it did, I think it's still so out
there beyond my understanding that it's hard for me to
wrap my head around it. But I remember being excited
knowing that we at least had a better grasp on
whatever this field is, this Higgs field that connects all matter.
(27:04):
That made me really excited. Yeah, and it's it's amazing
too believe that something some of the most intelligent people
in the world have been essentially guessing at for so
long turned out to be a real thing. There's this
sort of um once the phrase used bated breath. Yeah,
(27:28):
I think that perfectly encapsulates it, because you know, there's
this there's this immense relief that every person encounters when
it turns out that the universe obeys something we can
understand for a moment, because there's a certain amount of
certainty that you can get from that. But you know, simultaneously,
(27:51):
as we're reading about this, we're hearing about it. Updates
are coming, we're also making this show, the video portion
of this show at this time, and we are you know,
we are getting letters We're getting people tweeting at us
and everything, telling us about all of the things that
CERN is doing and the large Handron collider that are
going to essentially and humanity or destroy the planet in
(28:13):
some way or at least cause havoc. Right, yes, So,
Over the years leading to and after its construction, certain
became the subject of numerous strange rumors, conspiracy theories, and
some would argue, uh, legitimate worries. So what gives. I
(28:35):
remember several of the several of the things we received,
many of which were very in depth, and one of
the ones that you brought up recently we were doing
research for this episode was the story of the time
traveling Sabbature. Oh yeah, so okay, in the days leading
up to the first proof of the Higgs boson, which
(28:57):
is two thousand twelve the exact date. Yeah, you can
find it, but we uh. I remember reading that there
were a lot of issues with the collider itself. There
was some malfunctioning occurring. I think there was something with birds,
and I couldn't find it when I looked again, but
I thought something occurred with birds. They started, uh, they
(29:19):
started speaking Aramaic and their eyes were bleeding. That was
the major part of it. But but there were there
are a bunch of small issues that were occurring, and
then parts of the collider, parts of the magnet, one
of the magnets wouldn't function correctly, so they kept putting
off and putting off and putting off the ability to
actually do this testing and then run all of the
(29:40):
diagnostics on the testing that you need to analyze the
data that you get back, because that's where you actually
find out if you found the Higgs Boson particle. Right, Yeah,
when the experiments are happening, when it's end media arrests,
they have no I mean, you can tell if things
are working, yes, but it takes some rigorous analysis afterwards
(30:03):
to find what you found. Supercomputers to go all right,
we're gonna look at all this data for a couple
of months. Yeah. Um. But as we're saying, the idea
was that perhaps there was some time traveler who had
come back to two thousand, two thousand twelve to sabotage
the large Hadron collider because it's something terrible was going
(30:26):
to happen in the immediate future because of these experiments.
So this benevolent time traveler traveler just sabotaged the magnets.
He brought some birds in, apparently to mess things up,
the weird birds that speak languages they shouldn't know, having
fun with I gotcha, I'm following you. Well. The the
(30:49):
idea there is is fascinating because it's one of the
biggest tropes of time travel, the belief that um, someone
would come from a possible future to prevent that future
occurring in the various ways in which that quickly becomes
(31:11):
a mind boggling paradox. Stephen King has a novel called
in which a character attempts to This is not much
of a spoiler. A character attempts to prevent the assassination
of President Kennedy because he's stuck in a time loop
(31:36):
on that day, or he's chosen to enter a time
loop accidentally, and he's just the groundhog days the assassination essentially,
so he has one. One thing that really stuck out
for me in the in the concept or the language
of the book, is the phrase the past is obdurate,
(31:58):
meaning that in in the book it is or in
this universe, in this story, it is possible to make
small changes, right. We can we can put a coffee
cup on the left side of a desk versus the right,
and the world spends as will. But that to enact
(32:19):
a larger change, like causing or preventing the death of
a of a person who for a moment was a
hinge upon which humanity human civilization swung, that becomes a
bigger order, uh much larger bag of badgers, and it
is either impossible or incredibly dangerous to do so. So
(32:42):
with that kind of internal logic, which again I'm completely
plagiarizing from a completely fictional book. Um in this in
this internal logic, then if a time traveler is attempting
to prevent something incre reredibly important, whether incredibly good incredibly bad,
(33:05):
then it would be a huge shift and it would
be a problem. But then we also have to think,
if somebody had the benefit of retrospect, right, couldn't they
travel back to the nineteen fifties and prevent Scern from
being built. That's probably smarter, you know, but somebody was
going to build it at some point. I mean, you've
prevented that one. You gotta think maybe a group of
(33:29):
scientists here in the United States, working with Canada and Mexico,
created our version of the LHC. We almost did, didn't we? Yeah? Yeah,
but but you know it's tough. It's that whole weird
butterfly fact thing where somebody, and especially the idea of
science itself, somebody somewhere is going to try it. And
if we if we treat this as a thought experiment,
(33:51):
one thing that is baffling and and and look, let's
be honest, most most people nowadays do not believe in
some sort of physical on linear time travel. Right. But
here's the thing, whether you believe in this idea or not.
The weirdest and for me, most disturbing aspect of this
entire concept is that if a time traveler did change something,
(34:15):
we would have no idea because our reality would just
move along. It may have already happened numerous times, right,
And you and I feel like we have been doing
this show together for a number of years, But have
we Who was actually sitting here before the timeline changed? Oh? Dude,
(34:37):
I think it was I think it was me, But
but was it? I don't know? Oh? Oh wait, who's that?
Oh it's just Paul. Okay, you're staring Matt Is. Matt
is staring at super producer Paul seeing if he can
get a reaction from him. Did you get what I
(34:58):
was looking at? You? Like, Paul, he's got that poker face.
Wow that Oh well, we've got eyebrow lifted. All right,
we're gonna we're gonna move on. I am still paying
for that punt at the top. Full disclosure. Our Christmas
holiday party was last night, so all of us, you know,
we we got down. So yeah, this morning we're recording this.
(35:22):
We're all a little loopy. I think I think that's
all right. We're having a good time in here, especially Paul,
he's having the best time. So speaking of time travel, Uh,
John Tetur, if you are listening, please feel free to
clue us in on what may or may not be
happening at certain if there's any non linear time travel involved.
(35:45):
And John t Door, since you are one of the
most famous alleged time travelers in our day and age,
we would love to invite you to our holiday party
that occurs yesterday. Oh, there were some people I didn't
know there. Yeah, there were a lot of people I
didn't know there. I guess they're wearing it disguys for
(36:06):
that thing. Uh, this is just this is just one
of the conspiracy theories or fringe beliefs about certain other stuff.
Believe it or not, is even stranger. One story involves
human sacrifice. Yeah. A video showed up online in of
what appeared to be human sacrifice occurring in the Geneva
(36:28):
facility of certain Um. It looked like some kind of
occult ritual. Um, there was a mock human sacrifice that occurred.
You can watch the video. You can see at least
parts of it online. The Guardian has a great rite
up on it if you just type some of those
search words in. Um, it looks like a woman gets
(36:49):
stabbed by these people wearing rock cloaks, black robes, and
it's conducted in front of a large statue of Eva,
the Hindu deity. Yeah. Um, it looks intense, let's say that.
But according to the Guardian and some of the sources
they used, it appears to be at least not genuine,
(37:14):
like nobody actually got hurt. It appears to be just
some people goofing around. At least that's the official thing. Yeah,
and Bohemian Grove is just a summer camp. Yeah right,
uh huh, yeah, I'm sure and sure that's what a
spokesperson for Bohemian Grove has said, Okay, look, this was
(37:36):
probably a prank. Bohemian Grove is real. Uh, these a
Certain spokeswoman told UH told the French press agency that
this these scenes were filmed on our premises, but without
official permission or knowledge. Certain does not condone this type
of spoof, which can give rise to misunderstandings about the
(37:56):
scientific nature of our work. Yeah, and it should be
known that the people responsible for pulling the prank did
have access badges, so they were there. It's not like
they didn't have permission to be on the campus. So
people who really did work at Certain at least faked
a human sacrifice. Yes, that's that's true. Yes, right, at
(38:19):
the very least they faked it for somebody's music video
or student film. I'm assuming I would like to see
the final product. Or they stab some Yep, yep, that's
what she into. Two things pretty much. Here's another one. Earthquakes. Yeah,
(38:39):
manufactured earthquakes, not purposely manufactured. But but I mean, let's
say accidentally man made. Right. Yeah. The idea is that
perhaps the LHC is causing earthquakes unbeknownst or it's like
a side it's a side effect of some of the
LHC testing that the scientists didn't expec The idea came
(39:01):
from a couple of different places, including a YouTube channel
called bp earth Watch. So CERN had an experiment called Awake,
and it was exploring the use of plasma as an
accelerant for particles, right to send particles over a distance
(39:25):
and have them retain high energy right under accelerate particles
to high energies over a distance, and one of the
experiments involved sending plasma from the LHC underground for two
fifty miles to the Grand Sasso Nuclear Physics Laboratory in Italy.
(39:45):
And for people who believe this theory, well, the argument
is this that CERNS experiments, specifically Awake, sending plasma right
underground through these long distances somehow triggered earthquakes of varying
strength and significance. The argument here it seems to dwell
(40:12):
on their interpretation of maps essentially, and it's not it's
not completely out of bounds, because we do know, for instance,
that at HARP before HARP shut its doors and they
were exciting the ionosphere, right, so we do know that
(40:34):
there can be large scale effects. But you know, if
but if people are causing earthquakes. Here's the first question
anybody would ask if they were being skeptical. If people
found out they were doing something that was causing earthquakes,
(40:56):
why the hell would they do it? Surely they wouldn't
keep doing it. Yeah, there's there's no way that people
who manufacture earthquakes and know that they're doing it, we
keep doing it. The motive is just not there. Yeah,
the motive is not there. I mean you you wouldn't
continue testing nuclear weapons underground if it caused earthquakes. Oh
(41:19):
that's right, Yeah, that totally does it. That is true. Yeah,
that's a good point because in the DPRK a k
A North Korea, underground nuclear testing does in fact cause earthquakes.
Well yeah, and another example would be, you know, if
you were shooting some kind of hydraulic mixture of chemicals
into the ground to break up the rocks so you
could get more oil out. Uh, and it just happened
(41:40):
to cause earthquakes, you wouldn't do that anymore. Oh fracking, Yeah,
that's right, we're doing that too. Oh my gosh, I
guess we're causing like two two versions of man made earthquakes.
So the idea that certain would be causing earthquake, while
not scientifically valid, is not outside the realm of ridiculous
(42:01):
actions by human beings. You know what feels a bit
outside that realm, but is so awesome. I want it
to be true that that same experiment that was being
performed at LHC awake, perhaps it was creating a portal,
or the whole point of it was to create a
portal to another dimension and or a wormhole across the universe.
(42:25):
How cool would that be? Because there are a lot
there are several YouTube channels that you can find videos
of people purporting that that's what occurred. There's some videos
of intense storms occurring above the LHC with just intense
lightning going on, and uh. The belief there is that
they opened a portal either to the underworld i e. Satan,
(42:51):
or just to you know, an extraterrestrial planet somewhere sort
of like upside down. Yeah, a dimension slightly tilted to
the left. Man. Yeah, that's cool, man, sign me up.
I'll go to another dimension. I'll go I'll go to
the missed world in that other Stephen King's story. I'll
badly travel to the upside down the Missed world seems
(43:13):
pretty scary. I don't think I would last long um
where I'd give it a go. All right, yeah man,
yeah man, here for a good time, not a long time. Okay,
explain something to me. Does the Missed and this is
kind of a spoiler, and just stop listening if you
don't want to. We're past the statute man, just five
(43:34):
years established that. So in the mist is it an
actual dimension that's being breached or that is coming into
our dimension? Or is it just something that affects the mind.
Because I started watching the show that's based on The
Missed and it seems to have a completely different understanding
of what it is than what I thought it was.
(43:55):
I believe the answer is found in the problem a
lot of producers have when they're adapting something to television, right,
which is inevitably, if a show runs long enough, it
dilutes into a soap proper esque sort of thing about
(44:16):
people's relationships. Yeah, oh, walking Dead, right? Walking Dead is
like a soap opera where everybody says everyone else's name
five times in a paragraph, and occasionally a zombie shows
up and you know they're Look, there are a lot
(44:37):
of people who love the show, and I think zombies
are really cool monsters in Atlanta and Atlanta. Yes, yeah,
this is a hometown show and there's some amazing acting
and it is just not for me. But I think
that's why the mist happens there. And to answer your question,
in the story, the miss, there's a thing. Somebody correct
me right in and correct me if I'm if I
(44:58):
get this wrong, But there's a there's a secret government project, right,
maybe Project Arrowhead or something. It's rather vague. And what
they ultimately do is they open a hole into this
dimension from which this mist pours out, and the mist
sort of functions as the natural environment for the creatures
(45:21):
from this dimension, which are all aggressive and kind of
dumb and monstrous and they hate you. And some of
them are huge, yes, and some are in like the
size of a large dinosaur. It's so cool. Okay, it's
cool too. I'm sorry I started to get into much
of that. But the thought of that occurring because of
the LHC, I think I wonder if that picture gets
(45:45):
overlaid sometimes for people they imagine something like that occurring
at l AC. Yeah, exactly. There's there's this other idea
that you introduced me to about asteroids, that the LHC
could generate a magnetic field that could somehow pull an
asteroid towards Earth if the iron content of the rock
(46:06):
was high enough. Yeah, this one doesn't hold much water,
just because of the science involved and how strong of
an electromagnetic field you know, is actually being created at
the LHC, and how strong that would have to be
to have any effect on anybody that's you know, outside
of our atmosphere. However, one thing that really could happen, Oh,
(46:31):
the one thing. Black holes, Black freaking holes, the scariest
thing that exists in our universe in my opinion, the
LHC could legitimately, in theory, produce miniature black holes, which
miniature which still function as black holes. Uh. And scientists
(46:55):
readily admit this. Yes, we've got a statement from a
CERN spoke sman and this comes from Express dot code
dot UK quote. Although powerful for an accelerator, the energy
reached in the LHC is modest by nature's standards. Cosmic rays,
particles produced by events in outer space, collide with particles
(47:16):
in the Earth's atmosphere at much greater energies than those
of the LHC. These cosmic rays have been bombarding the
Earth's atmosphere as well as other astronomical bodies. Since the
bodies were formed with no harmful consequences, these planets and
stars have stayed intact despite these higher energy collisions over
billions of years. The LHC will not generate black holes
(47:38):
in the cosmological sense. However, some theories suggests that the
formation of tiny quantum black holes maybe possible. The observation
of such an event would be thrilling in terms of
our understanding of the universe and would be perfectly safe unquote.
So don't you feel better because because you know, there
(48:03):
are other people who argue that the risk of operating
the LHC disproportionately outweighs anything um any benefits science might
gain from experiments. And this is from another spokesperson for
now fit's called lc Defense dot org. It is not
possible to know what the outcome of the experiments will be,
but even certain scientists concede there's a real possibility of
(48:23):
creating destructive theoretical anomalies such as miniture black holes. Right
and for people who are concerned about this, uh, they
believe these events have the potential to fundamentally alter matter
and destroy the planet because a miniature black hole would
be trapped in Earth's gravitational field and over seconds to
(48:44):
hours interact acquire more mass, and if the theoretical process
of hockey and radiation doesn't work as predicted or as
quickly as predicted, than the black hole might stick around.
The thing that people say is if these theoretical tiny
entities quantum black holes were created, they would wink out
(49:07):
of existence almost instantaneously to human observers. Yeah, you don't.
You would pretty much only know by observing the data afterwards. Um,
And you know, it is really interesting. Certain scientists say
that this kind of miniature black hole or quantum black
hole could have effects on other dimensions, which sounds really
(49:30):
interesting to me. So even though it's only a blipment
of existence in our three dimensional world, well I guess
four dimensions with time, but it could have effects further
on the dimensional scale, which is fascinating, especially if you
think about, you know, multiverse theory with the idea that
there we exist on a plane much like a piece
(49:51):
of paper. Thinking all these pieces of paper stacked together,
and you create a quantum black hole in the top
piece of paper, let's just say that's where we exist.
Some first, somehow that quantum black hole would go all
the way through or at least some of the way
through the rest of the papers that are stacked up together,
So you could cause a disturbance theoretically across all of
(50:12):
the multiverse. Which sounds like a bad idea. It sounds
like a strange idea. It uh. It gets us to
where today's episode concludes. Because old friend, we are on
the bleeding edge of science, and right now as we
record this, it's coming out in eighteen but we're at
(50:33):
the very end the twilight hour of and we know
that discoveries are being made, right, they're being worked towards
that will fundamentally change our understanding of the universe and
possibly our understanding of our own inner workings. And at
(50:55):
this point it is something you're telling me off air.
It's all theoretical, yeah, the good, the bad, it's all
theoretical on those tiny, tiny scales that we can barely observe.
And all we can do is try and discover more
by experimenting. And I think that's the right way to go.
We just, I would say, just humans, we have to
(51:17):
be very, very careful of that doing it because we
can rather than we need to understand. It's just so
dangerous that some of that's in those levels. It feels
so dangerous. Yeah, you know, and I I respect where
you're coming from, but you know that I'm fundamentally different
in that regard, and maybe that's why we get along
(51:39):
so well. So we are going to call it a day.
Yet again, we have recorded an episode without the world
ending in this timeline, at least, the strangest things we
have discovered are that miniature black holes are a real
thing that cern can create that is not hogwash. Uh,
(52:00):
that people do manufacture earthquakes and everybody's just pretending that's
a normal thing. It is not, and it's terrible. It's
worth the future. Historians will see it on the same
level as people committing human sacrifice because they're afraid the
sun won't go up. Money is a religion, so we
(52:25):
also know, speaking of human sacrifice, that people who worked
at certain are at least doing some weird theater stuff.
And the thing again that I find most bizarre about
this is if there were a time traveling saboture or
group of saboteurs, we would have no idea. So what
(52:49):
do you think of the experiments going on at certain Yes?
And why do you think it's become this subject of
such strange accusations over time? Is it just because of
the curiosities and the unknowns for minds like myself which
don't fully grasp what's going on? Or is it because
there really is something going on a little a little
(53:10):
fuzzy is yeah? Is certain creating fuzzy timelines? Right? Is
the Mandela effect just a ripple of cern the guys
over there again? Yes? Yeah, you know Paul? Okay, you
remember me? Right? My name is Phil, Yeah, I know, Billy.
(53:30):
We've been working together for years making sure well, Mike
and I are going to call it a day, all right,
Thank you so much for tuning in. Everybody. We hope
that you are having a wonderful start to new your
new year, and we'd like to hear from you. We
especially if you are a physicist. We would love to
hear your best analogy for the Higgs Boson and the
(53:54):
way Boson's function upon these forces. Right, And you can
find us on Instagram, You can find us on Twitter,
you can find us on Facebook. You can find every
show we have ever done on our website Deep Stuff.
They don't want you to know dot com. And if
you don't want to find us on social media, you
just want to get to us directly, you can write
(54:14):
to us. We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot
com
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello,
(00:24):
and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
They call me Ben. We are joined with our super
producer Paul decant uh Null is a way for the moment,
but will return soon as long as time still works
the way that we conventionally understand it. Most importantly, you
are you that makes this stuff they don't want you
(00:46):
to know. And I will get rid of this pun
at the very top, because Matt and our super producer
Paul are already so tired of hearing me say it.
Today's title is should we be Concerned? Yes, concerned? And
for some reason, ce er N is capitalized in that title,
and that reason is that we're talking about an organization that,
(01:10):
if you are like most human beings on this planet
now with an Internet connection, you have heard of CERN.
It's an organization that has constructed something that you may
have also heard of called the Large Hadron Collider. Yes, yes, sir,
the Large Hadron Collider. That's what it's most well known for.
It And yeah, that wasn't you know, was it best
(01:34):
for us to just get that point out? And I
think we had to, But I'm also in love with
the title. So okay, well, I promise I won't I
won't push it too much. Yes, you you probably remember
hearing for years now about CERN and the large Hadron Collider,
and you've probably seen some frankly garbage explanations on mainstream
(01:58):
news about how that works in non mainstream news and
probably in non mainstream news as well. And uh, you
have hopefully also checked out some wonderful, in depth explanations
about what this thing is and what it does, and
will address some of that as well. But first we
(02:19):
want to establish the certain is responsible for much more
than a single, incredibly significant series of experiments. Yeah, it's
essentially responsible for the creation of what we know as
the Worldwide Web, that WWW that you type in sometimes
when you're using a computer, you're a lot of times
not on your phone. Uh, yeah, it did that in right. Yes.
(02:43):
The Web was originally conceived by Tim Berners Lee, and
it was developed to meet this demand for automatic information
sharing between scientists and universities and institutes around the world.
Just the thing we always talk about in the past.
If you're a scientist and you're working on some research,
you just have your research and what was written down
(03:04):
and you have access to and if you can send
that information that you're working on immediately to everybody else
and you can get everybody else's changing the game. And
so this really helped research at the time when it
had a sort of rarefied or very specific set of
users and a specific set of desires. And of course
(03:26):
they all said, we this is great. We should do
this with everything, and we should have everyone check it out.
What could go wrong? Yeah, it'll be fine, right, and uh,
you know, now now the Internet is what it is,
which is also changing. And I just want to go
on record here there's nothing to it today's episode. Uh,
(03:46):
and saying that as a personal opinion, any any ideologies
or politics aside. Uh, the fccs decision to sell the
American people down the river is just that a massive
trail and it's going to be terrible. Yeah. The day
prior to recording this episode, the FCC voted to strike
(04:09):
down the net neutrality rules that were put in place
on to the Obama administration, and that essentially the Internet
has been functioning on for its the entire existence just
being open and access to information is just for anybody
who has a connection. And I would be really curious
to see whether you or Paul or Noel uh support
(04:32):
the f c c S. I guess they would call
it a quote unquote decision for the quote unquote good
because it's rare that I'm going to be so open
with an opinion about this thing. But if you, if
you have kids, you should be concerned because we often
hear from organizations around the world about the dangers of
(04:52):
inequality in an economic sense. But history has proven, and
sadly the future will prove that an inequality of access
to information is at least as dangerous as lack of
access to the coupon system we practice today. Okay, yeah, sorry,
(05:14):
I'm doing like hot takes left right on a good note, Matt.
When we were looking at some of this background for
certain it made me recall another another series that you
and I used to do, Stuff of Genius. Yeah, we
did do stuff of genius for a while there. We
looked at inventors that were lesser known and the cool
things that they created that have shaped our world and civilization.
(05:38):
And here's the thing, it's an animated show. Yeah, animated
on Final Cut Pro seven what photoshop by Matt Mattman
Frederick mostly Tyler Klang. And if you if you do
some digging, you can find episodes that Matt did the
(06:00):
voice work on as well. Right, are they still out there?
You can find them somewhere. Yeah, they exist. So do
check out stuff of Genius and let us let us
know what you think because we had we had a
lot of fun doing that one. And don't forget the
coolest stuff on the planet, which was Matt who don't
ever search for that? Okay, it's too late. Next, next,
(06:22):
the first website at CERN, Yes, exactly what you want
to talk about instead of coolest stuff on the planet. Well,
next was the computer, right Tim berners Lee, the gentleman
who was working with CERN. He created this first website
which was essentially about the web itself. This is how
you use this service. These are all the things you
(06:44):
need to do to access other people's documents, how to
set up your own server. It's like in f a Q. Yeah, exactly.
It was the world's first website. Yes. So the next
machine and that is Capital in Little e Capital xpital
t is still at certain. Isn't that correct? Yeah, really
(07:05):
cool And uh, it's been there for so long, it's
really neat that in Certain actually reinstated the website, the
original first website, to its original address and you can
go there right now if you want to to check
it out. Check it out today, folks. And that website
is info dot c r N dot c H. Check
(07:28):
it out. And and Paul, what we're talking about that
is there sort of a retro sci fi music que
you could throw in perfect he's so good at that,
you are so good at that, Paul so certain has
done a ton of things throughout the years. We mentioned
this already. We talked about the first website, awesome. We
(07:50):
talked about the collider to large Hadron collider that they
will get into later. There are other things that they
discovered through experimentation, things like things that I don't fully
understand I just to be honest with you, um, things
like w n Z bosons that I, you know, sure,
I think I kind of understand what that means, but
(08:13):
not really. And before that, they discovered neutral currents in
this thing called the gargamel bubble chamber, which sounds like
a villain of some sort, but you know, that's that's fine.
Gargamel from the Smurfs, right, Gargamel wasn't gargamel bad in
the Smurfs, The character Gargamell was bad. Yes, Uh, like
(08:35):
Gargamell itself was a heavy liquid bubble chamber detector that
was operating for nine years in the seventies. It was
trying to detect neutrinos and anti neutrinos and it found
neutral currents. And it found neutral currents. Yeah, and of
course we're we're not physicists, though most people are not
(08:57):
as it turns out, but we do know that we
we do have a grasp of some of the experiments
that CERN has conducted. And what's important to note is
that it's not just the large hit John Collider. Uh.
They also created anti hydrogen atoms, which, again, as a
(09:20):
non physicist, to me that, you know, my thought is,
why would you do that? Why? Why would you We're
family shows, so I will say, why would you fuss
with things that we're fine? You know what I mean? Well,
because we have to find out Ben, that's what science
and all this is all about. We just got to
know um smarter people than I need to know. And
(09:44):
Matt according to numerous people, CERN may be responsible for
much much much so, much more so, much more, and
will explore the fact acts surrounding CERN after a word
from our sponsors, and we're back Matt. Earlier, when we
(10:13):
were off air, you and I talked about when to
just explain what CERN was, and you were completely right,
my old friend. We should have done it at the
top of the show. I don't, I don't know if
we're right. I see there's a bit of a an
elongation that it's just keeping you on the edge of
your seat, like, what is CERN? It turns out that
(10:34):
CERN is an acronym for the Council Open polary Chech Nuclear,
which I am not pronouncing very well. Oa. What does
that mean in English? It means the European Organization for
Nuclear Research. And as we as we said before, it's
most well known for its massive thing called a large
(10:56):
hadron collider. It is not an ironic name. It's not,
you know, like a little John sort of moniker. It's
it's describing a massive particle accelerator. And you, like many people,
friends and neighbors, listeners, um demons and angels out there
in the audience, maybe wondering what the heck is a
(11:19):
particle accelerator. We're very glad you asked. So. Essentially, it's
a machine that speeds up with using magnets, giant magnets
that were they're like nineteen hundred tons or more tons.
I don't know exactly what. It's huge, these giant magnets,
they speed up and increase the energy of a beam
(11:42):
of particles, and they generate these electric fields that accelerate
these particles. It just basically continue to accelerate them going
around a large loop, and the magnetic fields that they
have surrounding kind of the track that they send these
particles around. It's just it's accelerating them and steering them
and focusing them down into a tiny little beam and
(12:05):
then they smash them together. Tight. Yeah, I told you
about this right have. Accidentally I've been falling into this scene.
You know how, sometimes words, just as concepts are, are
mimetic entities of a type, and sometimes slang from the
(12:29):
past or from a different language just sort of gets
stuck in your mind like a splinter in your finger. Yeah,
and so tight has been stuck in my head and
I am trying to tamp it down. But that was
an excellent explanation that was Okay, I think we got
through it. So there are a couple of different types
(12:49):
of these accelerators that have been used and built in
the past. One of them is a linear accelerator or
a linear accelerator, and that's where a beam of particles
travels essentially in a straight line. I mean it makes sense, right,
linear from one end to the other end. Yeah, And
with these you can have maybe two of them that
(13:10):
are on either side of this line, and you shoot
the beams at each other and they hit in the center,
and that's when you're doing your experimentation, right at that
center point where they're colliding. Yeah, that makes sense. Then
you got these circular accelerators like the large hydron collider
that have this ring essentially a circle of sorts that
(13:31):
they the particles just travel around this thing, accelerating, accelerating,
just getting faster and faster and faster and faster. They
reach a point where it's getting pretty close to stuff
we would observe with what we believe to be the
big bang, and they smash them together, and that that
point of smashing is where they do their major testing
smash point. Yeah, it's a smash point. It's pretty tight.
(13:54):
Oh no, I've spread I've spread the my my linguistic
disease to you, and I apologize. In two thousand and eight,
speaking of segways, Certain built the large Hadron Colyder. It's
not only seven kilometers in length. It is a It
is a circular accelerator, as Matt described earlier. Uh, it
(14:17):
is also the world's most powerful accelerator as we record
this now at the very end of it has a
it has the super conducting magnets, and it has a
number of other ancillary structures built to accelerate the energy
of the particles along the way and inside the accelerator
(14:40):
there are these two high energy beams, particle beams that
are traveling it close to the speed of light before
they finally hit one another. It's crazy to think about
so cool that we could even achieve that it is.
It's astonishing just to be frank with you and and
being in since I'm being since here in that point um.
(15:00):
The beams travel in opposite directions in separate pipes separate
beam pipes, which is the phrase that Certain uses beam
beam pipes. The tubes are kept at an ultra high vacuum.
They're guided around by the magnetic field produced by those
superconductive magnets. And the electromagnets themselves are built from these
(15:24):
coils of a cable that virtually conducts electricity without resistance
or loss of energy. So these are very, very efficient.
And to make these magnets, these super cool magnets that
are super cool on several levels, right right, Uh, what
(15:49):
do you have to do? Well? It has to be
the environment has to be extremely cold. The magnets themselves
have to be crazy cold. It requires the magnets ben
get have two hundred and seventy one point three degrees celsius. Uh,
that's a temperature colder than outer space. Let's say you're
on a spacewalk as an astronaut. It is colder in
(16:12):
these supermagnets, or these these supermagnets are colder than you
would be if you were standing outside in outer space.
So two hundred and seventy one degree celsius is about
five hundred and nineteen point eight degrees fahrenheit. So it's
minus that minus that, which which is insane but is
(16:34):
the nature of the business in the LHC. I guess
we can start calling it that now. Yeah, yeah, I
think we know it well enough that the LHC was
designed for a couple of different things, but one of
its primary purposes was to prove the existence of something
called the Higgs bosun. And I can tell you what
(16:57):
it is real briefly if you want, Yeah, please you.
I would love to know. All right, So there is
the god particle. It has been called the God particle.
And you and I would hang out and wonder whether
this would lead to the end of the world because
we received emails about this plenty. We're going to borrow
some quotes from an excellent article called what exactly is
(17:21):
the Higgs Boson available at how stuff works dot com
by an author named Jonathan at Mary. So to understand
what the Higgs boson is, we need to examine the
theories describing the way the cosmos works. And we'll call
it the standard model. Also not an ironic name. Sounds good.
(17:44):
So here's the gist of the standard model when it
comes to us comes to our species around the early
nineteen seventies. The idea is that the entire universe, everything
you know, and everything you or your friends will ever encounter,
or your ancestor or your descendants. Capitally, everything is ultimately
made up of twelve different sorts of particles of matter
(18:08):
and four forces. In the twelve particles, you will encounter
six things called quarks and six things called leptons. Quarks
are what comprise protons and neutrons, while the things we
call leptons include electrons and the electron neutrino. Scientists think
(18:29):
that you cannot break leptons and quarks into smaller particles.
So far, so we've got those twelve particles, and then
we have four forces that sort of captain planet together
to make the universe run. Yeah, and that's gravity, which
you're probably aware of going up and going down, but
(18:50):
there's more to it than that electromagnetic force that's what
you see in magnets. Then you've got strong and weak forces,
and these are more of the nuclear forces, um that
have to do with the way adams interact. It gets
a little intense when you're getting down into those forces
and trying to truly understand them. And that's why being
(19:11):
a particle physicist is a high paying job and a
demanding one, right and a very important one. So we've
got those, let's let's focus on those four fundamental forces.
Scientists believe that each of those forces the mat just named,
have a corresponding carrier particle, which they call a boson
(19:33):
b O, S, O, N, that acts upon matter. And
there's a cool analogy in here. Some physicists have described
to bosons as weights anchored by mysterious rubber bands to
the matter particles that generate them. So we can think
of particles constantly snapping back out of existence in an instant,
(19:56):
yet equally capable of becoming entangled with other rubb or
bands attached to other boson's. Yeah, this is easy to
understand stuff. I feel like you're I guess this is
It's just it's very It's just difficult stuff to wrap
your head around. That's all because they were also describing
(20:17):
the movement of matter through the universe rights and the forces,
the forces acting upon that matter, and the rules of
the road for those forces. If they are like chess
pieces that can only move in certain directions. Yes, yes,
so that's what they're looking for. And they've been trying
to do this for a while, right, Yes, they have been.
(20:40):
Let's travel all the way back to nineteen fifty three,
to the sixth section the sixth session of the Certain Council,
which took place in Paris, m from June twenty nine
to July one. The convention established the organization was signed.
They were subject to ratification by twelve different states. That
can mention was gradually ratified by the founding member states.
(21:04):
We're talking Belgium, Denmark, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy,
the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and Yugoslavia
and your Slavia. So one one thing that's interesting about
this is that conspiracy theories or or fringe researchers see
this international cooperation as very strong, circumstantial evidence. That's something.
(21:32):
Oh I was going to say that something's rotten in Denmark,
but Shakespeare side, that doesn't imply. But that's the you know,
some people distrust that level of geopolitical cooperation. Yeah, so
many different governing entities having their hands in this, got it?
Or you know, it could just be humans working together
to do the coolest experiments possible. I really appreciate that point, Matt,
(21:56):
and I hope that's the case. I was just going
to argue that it was probably two weeks spensive for
each of those countries to afford on their own. But yeah,
shadowy cabral interested scientists, vultronning together, everybody figuring out how
to foot the bill. Regardless. On the seventeenth of May
(22:18):
and nineteen fifty four, they first broke Earth and Geneva
officials were watching members of the Certain staff we're watching.
Construction continues until September of the same year and CERN
officially comes into being located there in Switzerland. And today
(22:41):
you can find CERTAIN. It's still the same place. You
can view it on Google Earth. It's gigantic. It's based
in a suburb near Geneva on the border between France
and Switzerland. And currently it has twenty two members eights. Uh.
(23:01):
The United States is not a full member of CERN. Nope,
Israel is the only non European full member of CERN.
It has expanded from twelve to twenty two members states.
And in addition to the large hydron collider, these physicists,
that these engineers, some of the smartest people in the world,
(23:24):
are probing the fundamental structure of the universe. Yeah, they're
they're studying the basic the basic pieces of matter, the
things that are the building blocks that create this table
and these hands handsund Yeah, it's it's like we said,
(23:46):
we keep reiterating, it's incredibly cool. They're talking about colliding
you know, particles. That's what they do. They hang around
all day, they speed up particles to the speed of
light almost, and they smash them together and they see
what happens. Because without this sort of technology, physicists would
ultimately be participating in thought experiments, right. Yeah, And a
(24:09):
lot of it still is thought experiments that they're trying
to prove one way or the other by to to
transform a guess into observable science. Right. And one of
the really interesting things that you noted earlier, Matt as
you said, this is for me where science becomes magic.
(24:31):
This is like my Arthur C. Clerk threshold. Without directly
observable science at the very edges of theoretical science, what
what we encounter is is very close to mysticism or
or articles of faith. If you're a world expert on something,
(24:54):
your best guests automatically becomes leading theory exactly and at
is ultimately what they're testing at certain it's the fundamental
laws of nature that govern all matter and all existence,
and a lot of these are you know, they're testable
and provable to a certain extent, but then when you
(25:14):
get deeper and deeper and deeper down into the sub
atomic and then even deeper levels, it's harder to know
what is real and what's not. And that's why certain
is so important. Furthermore, that's why certain from many people
it's so frightening. Yes, get into something a little stranger
(25:34):
after a word from our sponsor that I have to
ask you because you and I were working together years
and years ago when a lot of news about the
large Hadron collider and the search for the Higgs boson
(25:57):
popped up in the mainstream. Well, what was your experience
like hearing that news? And as we were learning about
this around the time, the website dig was pretty big,
and I would go there all the time and they
would have updates essentially UM, and I would watch news
(26:17):
conferences that were live with updates from cern about you know,
they're getting the UM. The LHC is preparing to run
some tests, but they're having some issues with some of
the magnets. UM, let's see. I would watch with bated
breath with some of these press conferences where they're going
to announce something, and nothing came for a long time,
(26:40):
you know, nothing official about the Higgs boson um. But
then when it did, I think it's still so out
there beyond my understanding that it's hard for me to
wrap my head around it. But I remember being excited
knowing that we at least had a better grasp on
whatever this field is, this Higgs field that connects all matter.
(27:04):
That made me really excited. Yeah, and it's it's amazing
too believe that something some of the most intelligent people
in the world have been essentially guessing at for so
long turned out to be a real thing. There's this
sort of um once the phrase used bated breath. Yeah,
(27:28):
I think that perfectly encapsulates it, because you know, there's
this there's this immense relief that every person encounters when
it turns out that the universe obeys something we can
understand for a moment, because there's a certain amount of
certainty that you can get from that. But you know, simultaneously,
(27:51):
as we're reading about this, we're hearing about it. Updates
are coming, we're also making this show, the video portion
of this show at this time, and we are you know,
we are getting letters We're getting people tweeting at us
and everything, telling us about all of the things that
CERN is doing and the large Handron collider that are
going to essentially and humanity or destroy the planet in
(28:13):
some way or at least cause havoc. Right, yes, So,
Over the years leading to and after its construction, certain
became the subject of numerous strange rumors, conspiracy theories, and
some would argue, uh, legitimate worries. So what gives. I
(28:35):
remember several of the several of the things we received,
many of which were very in depth, and one of
the ones that you brought up recently we were doing
research for this episode was the story of the time
traveling Sabbature. Oh yeah, so okay, in the days leading
up to the first proof of the Higgs boson, which
(28:57):
is two thousand twelve the exact date. Yeah, you can
find it, but we uh. I remember reading that there
were a lot of issues with the collider itself. There
was some malfunctioning occurring. I think there was something with birds,
and I couldn't find it when I looked again, but
I thought something occurred with birds. They started, uh, they
(29:19):
started speaking Aramaic and their eyes were bleeding. That was
the major part of it. But but there were there
are a bunch of small issues that were occurring, and
then parts of the collider, parts of the magnet, one
of the magnets wouldn't function correctly, so they kept putting
off and putting off and putting off the ability to
actually do this testing and then run all of the
(29:40):
diagnostics on the testing that you need to analyze the
data that you get back, because that's where you actually
find out if you found the Higgs Boson particle. Right, Yeah,
when the experiments are happening, when it's end media arrests,
they have no I mean, you can tell if things
are working, yes, but it takes some rigorous analysis afterwards
(30:03):
to find what you found. Supercomputers to go all right,
we're gonna look at all this data for a couple
of months. Yeah. Um. But as we're saying, the idea
was that perhaps there was some time traveler who had
come back to two thousand, two thousand twelve to sabotage
the large Hadron collider because it's something terrible was going
(30:26):
to happen in the immediate future because of these experiments.
So this benevolent time traveler traveler just sabotaged the magnets.
He brought some birds in, apparently to mess things up,
the weird birds that speak languages they shouldn't know, having
fun with I gotcha, I'm following you. Well. The the
(30:49):
idea there is is fascinating because it's one of the
biggest tropes of time travel, the belief that um, someone
would come from a possible future to prevent that future
occurring in the various ways in which that quickly becomes
(31:11):
a mind boggling paradox. Stephen King has a novel called
in which a character attempts to This is not much
of a spoiler. A character attempts to prevent the assassination
of President Kennedy because he's stuck in a time loop
(31:36):
on that day, or he's chosen to enter a time
loop accidentally, and he's just the groundhog days the assassination essentially,
so he has one. One thing that really stuck out
for me in the in the concept or the language
of the book, is the phrase the past is obdurate,
(31:58):
meaning that in in the book it is or in
this universe, in this story, it is possible to make
small changes, right. We can we can put a coffee
cup on the left side of a desk versus the right,
and the world spends as will. But that to enact
(32:19):
a larger change, like causing or preventing the death of
a of a person who for a moment was a
hinge upon which humanity human civilization swung, that becomes a
bigger order, uh much larger bag of badgers, and it
is either impossible or incredibly dangerous to do so. So
(32:42):
with that kind of internal logic, which again I'm completely
plagiarizing from a completely fictional book. Um in this in
this internal logic, then if a time traveler is attempting
to prevent something incre reredibly important, whether incredibly good incredibly bad,
(33:05):
then it would be a huge shift and it would
be a problem. But then we also have to think,
if somebody had the benefit of retrospect, right, couldn't they
travel back to the nineteen fifties and prevent Scern from
being built. That's probably smarter, you know, but somebody was
going to build it at some point. I mean, you've
prevented that one. You gotta think maybe a group of
(33:29):
scientists here in the United States, working with Canada and Mexico,
created our version of the LHC. We almost did, didn't we? Yeah? Yeah,
but but you know it's tough. It's that whole weird
butterfly fact thing where somebody, and especially the idea of
science itself, somebody somewhere is going to try it. And
if we if we treat this as a thought experiment,
(33:51):
one thing that is baffling and and and look, let's
be honest, most most people nowadays do not believe in
some sort of physical on linear time travel. Right. But
here's the thing, whether you believe in this idea or not.
The weirdest and for me, most disturbing aspect of this
entire concept is that if a time traveler did change something,
(34:15):
we would have no idea because our reality would just
move along. It may have already happened numerous times, right,
And you and I feel like we have been doing
this show together for a number of years, But have
we Who was actually sitting here before the timeline changed? Oh? Dude,
(34:37):
I think it was I think it was me, But
but was it? I don't know? Oh? Oh wait, who's that?
Oh it's just Paul. Okay, you're staring Matt Is. Matt
is staring at super producer Paul seeing if he can
get a reaction from him. Did you get what I
(34:58):
was looking at? You? Like, Paul, he's got that poker face.
Wow that Oh well, we've got eyebrow lifted. All right,
we're gonna we're gonna move on. I am still paying
for that punt at the top. Full disclosure. Our Christmas
holiday party was last night, so all of us, you know,
we we got down. So yeah, this morning we're recording this.
(35:22):
We're all a little loopy. I think I think that's
all right. We're having a good time in here, especially Paul,
he's having the best time. So speaking of time travel, Uh,
John Tetur, if you are listening, please feel free to
clue us in on what may or may not be
happening at certain if there's any non linear time travel involved.
(35:45):
And John t Door, since you are one of the
most famous alleged time travelers in our day and age,
we would love to invite you to our holiday party
that occurs yesterday. Oh, there were some people I didn't
know there. Yeah, there were a lot of people I
didn't know there. I guess they're wearing it disguys for
(36:06):
that thing. Uh, this is just this is just one
of the conspiracy theories or fringe beliefs about certain other stuff.
Believe it or not, is even stranger. One story involves
human sacrifice. Yeah. A video showed up online in of
what appeared to be human sacrifice occurring in the Geneva
(36:28):
facility of certain Um. It looked like some kind of
occult ritual. Um, there was a mock human sacrifice that occurred.
You can watch the video. You can see at least
parts of it online. The Guardian has a great rite
up on it if you just type some of those
search words in. Um, it looks like a woman gets
(36:49):
stabbed by these people wearing rock cloaks, black robes, and
it's conducted in front of a large statue of Eva,
the Hindu deity. Yeah. Um, it looks intense, let's say that.
But according to the Guardian and some of the sources
they used, it appears to be at least not genuine,
(37:14):
like nobody actually got hurt. It appears to be just
some people goofing around. At least that's the official thing. Yeah,
and Bohemian Grove is just a summer camp. Yeah right,
uh huh, yeah, I'm sure and sure that's what a
spokesperson for Bohemian Grove has said, Okay, look, this was
(37:36):
probably a prank. Bohemian Grove is real. Uh, these a
Certain spokeswoman told UH told the French press agency that
this these scenes were filmed on our premises, but without
official permission or knowledge. Certain does not condone this type
of spoof, which can give rise to misunderstandings about the
(37:56):
scientific nature of our work. Yeah, and it should be
known that the people responsible for pulling the prank did
have access badges, so they were there. It's not like
they didn't have permission to be on the campus. So
people who really did work at Certain at least faked
a human sacrifice. Yes, that's that's true. Yes, right, at
(38:19):
the very least they faked it for somebody's music video
or student film. I'm assuming I would like to see
the final product. Or they stab some Yep, yep, that's
what she into. Two things pretty much. Here's another one. Earthquakes. Yeah,
(38:39):
manufactured earthquakes, not purposely manufactured. But but I mean, let's
say accidentally man made. Right. Yeah. The idea is that
perhaps the LHC is causing earthquakes unbeknownst or it's like
a side it's a side effect of some of the
LHC testing that the scientists didn't expec The idea came
(39:01):
from a couple of different places, including a YouTube channel
called bp earth Watch. So CERN had an experiment called Awake,
and it was exploring the use of plasma as an
accelerant for particles, right to send particles over a distance
(39:25):
and have them retain high energy right under accelerate particles
to high energies over a distance, and one of the
experiments involved sending plasma from the LHC underground for two
fifty miles to the Grand Sasso Nuclear Physics Laboratory in Italy.
(39:45):
And for people who believe this theory, well, the argument
is this that CERNS experiments, specifically Awake, sending plasma right
underground through these long distances somehow triggered earthquakes of varying
strength and significance. The argument here it seems to dwell
(40:12):
on their interpretation of maps essentially, and it's not it's
not completely out of bounds, because we do know, for instance,
that at HARP before HARP shut its doors and they
were exciting the ionosphere, right, so we do know that
(40:34):
there can be large scale effects. But you know, if
but if people are causing earthquakes. Here's the first question
anybody would ask if they were being skeptical. If people
found out they were doing something that was causing earthquakes,
(40:56):
why the hell would they do it? Surely they wouldn't
keep doing it. Yeah, there's there's no way that people
who manufacture earthquakes and know that they're doing it, we
keep doing it. The motive is just not there. Yeah,
the motive is not there. I mean you you wouldn't
continue testing nuclear weapons underground if it caused earthquakes. Oh
(41:19):
that's right, Yeah, that totally does it. That is true. Yeah,
that's a good point because in the DPRK a k
A North Korea, underground nuclear testing does in fact cause earthquakes.
Well yeah, and another example would be, you know, if
you were shooting some kind of hydraulic mixture of chemicals
into the ground to break up the rocks so you
could get more oil out. Uh, and it just happened
(41:40):
to cause earthquakes, you wouldn't do that anymore. Oh fracking, Yeah,
that's right, we're doing that too. Oh my gosh, I
guess we're causing like two two versions of man made earthquakes.
So the idea that certain would be causing earthquake, while
not scientifically valid, is not outside the realm of ridiculous
(42:01):
actions by human beings. You know what feels a bit
outside that realm, but is so awesome. I want it
to be true that that same experiment that was being
performed at LHC awake, perhaps it was creating a portal,
or the whole point of it was to create a
portal to another dimension and or a wormhole across the universe.
(42:25):
How cool would that be? Because there are a lot
there are several YouTube channels that you can find videos
of people purporting that that's what occurred. There's some videos
of intense storms occurring above the LHC with just intense
lightning going on, and uh. The belief there is that
they opened a portal either to the underworld i e. Satan,
(42:51):
or just to you know, an extraterrestrial planet somewhere sort
of like upside down. Yeah, a dimension slightly tilted to
the left. Man. Yeah, that's cool, man, sign me up.
I'll go to another dimension. I'll go I'll go to
the missed world in that other Stephen King's story. I'll
badly travel to the upside down the Missed world seems
(43:13):
pretty scary. I don't think I would last long um
where I'd give it a go. All right, yeah man,
yeah man, here for a good time, not a long time. Okay,
explain something to me. Does the Missed and this is
kind of a spoiler, and just stop listening if you
don't want to. We're past the statute man, just five
(43:34):
years established that. So in the mist is it an
actual dimension that's being breached or that is coming into
our dimension? Or is it just something that affects the mind.
Because I started watching the show that's based on The
Missed and it seems to have a completely different understanding
of what it is than what I thought it was.
(43:55):
I believe the answer is found in the problem a
lot of producers have when they're adapting something to television, right,
which is inevitably, if a show runs long enough, it
dilutes into a soap proper esque sort of thing about
(44:16):
people's relationships. Yeah, oh, walking Dead, right? Walking Dead is
like a soap opera where everybody says everyone else's name
five times in a paragraph, and occasionally a zombie shows
up and you know they're Look, there are a lot
(44:37):
of people who love the show, and I think zombies
are really cool monsters in Atlanta and Atlanta. Yes, yeah,
this is a hometown show and there's some amazing acting
and it is just not for me. But I think
that's why the mist happens there. And to answer your question,
in the story, the miss, there's a thing. Somebody correct
me right in and correct me if I'm if I
(44:58):
get this wrong, But there's a there's a secret government project, right,
maybe Project Arrowhead or something. It's rather vague. And what
they ultimately do is they open a hole into this
dimension from which this mist pours out, and the mist
sort of functions as the natural environment for the creatures
(45:21):
from this dimension, which are all aggressive and kind of
dumb and monstrous and they hate you. And some of
them are huge, yes, and some are in like the
size of a large dinosaur. It's so cool. Okay, it's
cool too. I'm sorry I started to get into much
of that. But the thought of that occurring because of
the LHC, I think I wonder if that picture gets
(45:45):
overlaid sometimes for people they imagine something like that occurring
at l AC. Yeah, exactly. There's there's this other idea
that you introduced me to about asteroids, that the LHC
could generate a magnetic field that could somehow pull an
asteroid towards Earth if the iron content of the rock
(46:06):
was high enough. Yeah, this one doesn't hold much water,
just because of the science involved and how strong of
an electromagnetic field you know, is actually being created at
the LHC, and how strong that would have to be
to have any effect on anybody that's you know, outside
of our atmosphere. However, one thing that really could happen, Oh,
(46:31):
the one thing. Black holes, Black freaking holes, the scariest
thing that exists in our universe in my opinion, the
LHC could legitimately, in theory, produce miniature black holes, which
miniature which still function as black holes. Uh. And scientists
(46:55):
readily admit this. Yes, we've got a statement from a
CERN spoke sman and this comes from Express dot code
dot UK quote. Although powerful for an accelerator, the energy
reached in the LHC is modest by nature's standards. Cosmic rays,
particles produced by events in outer space, collide with particles
(47:16):
in the Earth's atmosphere at much greater energies than those
of the LHC. These cosmic rays have been bombarding the
Earth's atmosphere as well as other astronomical bodies. Since the
bodies were formed with no harmful consequences, these planets and
stars have stayed intact despite these higher energy collisions over
billions of years. The LHC will not generate black holes
(47:38):
in the cosmological sense. However, some theories suggests that the
formation of tiny quantum black holes maybe possible. The observation
of such an event would be thrilling in terms of
our understanding of the universe and would be perfectly safe unquote.
So don't you feel better because because you know, there
(48:03):
are other people who argue that the risk of operating
the LHC disproportionately outweighs anything um any benefits science might
gain from experiments. And this is from another spokesperson for
now fit's called lc Defense dot org. It is not
possible to know what the outcome of the experiments will be,
but even certain scientists concede there's a real possibility of
(48:23):
creating destructive theoretical anomalies such as miniture black holes. Right
and for people who are concerned about this, uh, they
believe these events have the potential to fundamentally alter matter
and destroy the planet because a miniature black hole would
be trapped in Earth's gravitational field and over seconds to
(48:44):
hours interact acquire more mass, and if the theoretical process
of hockey and radiation doesn't work as predicted or as
quickly as predicted, than the black hole might stick around.
The thing that people say is if these theoretical tiny
entities quantum black holes were created, they would wink out
(49:07):
of existence almost instantaneously to human observers. Yeah, you don't.
You would pretty much only know by observing the data afterwards. Um,
And you know, it is really interesting. Certain scientists say
that this kind of miniature black hole or quantum black
hole could have effects on other dimensions, which sounds really
(49:30):
interesting to me. So even though it's only a blipment
of existence in our three dimensional world, well I guess
four dimensions with time, but it could have effects further
on the dimensional scale, which is fascinating, especially if you
think about, you know, multiverse theory with the idea that
there we exist on a plane much like a piece
(49:51):
of paper. Thinking all these pieces of paper stacked together,
and you create a quantum black hole in the top
piece of paper, let's just say that's where we exist.
Some first, somehow that quantum black hole would go all
the way through or at least some of the way
through the rest of the papers that are stacked up together,
So you could cause a disturbance theoretically across all of
(50:12):
the multiverse. Which sounds like a bad idea. It sounds
like a strange idea. It uh. It gets us to
where today's episode concludes. Because old friend, we are on
the bleeding edge of science, and right now as we
record this, it's coming out in eighteen but we're at
(50:33):
the very end the twilight hour of and we know
that discoveries are being made, right, they're being worked towards
that will fundamentally change our understanding of the universe and
possibly our understanding of our own inner workings. And at
(50:55):
this point it is something you're telling me off air.
It's all theoretical, yeah, the good, the bad, it's all
theoretical on those tiny, tiny scales that we can barely observe.
And all we can do is try and discover more
by experimenting. And I think that's the right way to go.
We just, I would say, just humans, we have to
(51:17):
be very, very careful of that doing it because we
can rather than we need to understand. It's just so
dangerous that some of that's in those levels. It feels
so dangerous. Yeah, you know, and I I respect where
you're coming from, but you know that I'm fundamentally different
in that regard, and maybe that's why we get along
(51:39):
so well. So we are going to call it a day.
Yet again, we have recorded an episode without the world
ending in this timeline, at least, the strangest things we
have discovered are that miniature black holes are a real
thing that cern can create that is not hogwash. Uh,
(52:00):
that people do manufacture earthquakes and everybody's just pretending that's
a normal thing. It is not, and it's terrible. It's
worth the future. Historians will see it on the same
level as people committing human sacrifice because they're afraid the
sun won't go up. Money is a religion, so we
(52:25):
also know, speaking of human sacrifice, that people who worked
at certain are at least doing some weird theater stuff.
And the thing again that I find most bizarre about
this is if there were a time traveling saboture or
group of saboteurs, we would have no idea. So what
(52:49):
do you think of the experiments going on at certain Yes?
And why do you think it's become this subject of
such strange accusations over time? Is it just because of
the curiosities and the unknowns for minds like myself which
don't fully grasp what's going on? Or is it because
there really is something going on a little a little
(53:10):
fuzzy is yeah? Is certain creating fuzzy timelines? Right? Is
the Mandela effect just a ripple of cern the guys
over there again? Yes? Yeah, you know Paul? Okay, you
remember me? Right? My name is Phil, Yeah, I know, Billy.
(53:30):
We've been working together for years making sure well, Mike
and I are going to call it a day, all right,
Thank you so much for tuning in. Everybody. We hope
that you are having a wonderful start to new your
new year, and we'd like to hear from you. We
especially if you are a physicist. We would love to
hear your best analogy for the Higgs Boson and the
(53:54):
way Boson's function upon these forces. Right, And you can
find us on Instagram, You can find us on Twitter,
you can find us on Facebook. You can find every
show we have ever done on our website Deep Stuff.
They don't want you to know dot com. And if
you don't want to find us on social media, you
just want to get to us directly, you can write
(54:14):
to us. We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot
com
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