The Death of Jeffrey Epstein

Earlier this year the guys traced the rise of the enigmatic financier and child abuser Jeffrey Epstein, discovering a quagmire of crime, corruption and cover-ups implicating some of the world’s most powerful individuals. It seemed Epstein’s connections effectively placed him above the law - at least, that is, until renewed public scrutiny and criminal investigations found Epstein arrested once again and, this time, placed in a real prison. Many speculated Epstein would never go to trial. On August 10th, he was found dead in what the media described as an “apparent suicide”. So what happened? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back

(00:24):
to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel.
They call me Ben. We are joined in spirit with
our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know going to be completely transparent,
because transparency is important to us on this show and

(00:45):
hopefully important to those of us listening along. We are
not in the studio today. Now we're in a hotel
in Orlando. Is it a motel or hotel or a
holiday and it's a little resort. He Actually there's a
lazy river outside a pretty dope water slide situation that
we have not had a chance to enjoy yet, but

(01:06):
maybe after this I heard good things about the water slide.
It's true as a series of circumstances have found us
here in Orlando, but we also found ourselves compelled to
update a very important topic that you have doubtlessly read
about in the news recently. And you have known about

(01:30):
since at least January. If you are a long time
listener of our show, perhaps we can sum it up thus, Lee,
I don't know, you want to do some foreshadowing. New
York Times. Yes, so yesterday as we're recording this, New
York Times opinion columnist Ross do do thought? Do thought?
I think that's how you say it. He wrote a

(01:52):
piece called Jeffrey Epstein and When to Take Conspiracies seriously interesting. Yeah,
and we highly recommend that you read this just for
of all. But here is just a little bit of
a taste. Yeah, a couple of pretty quotable quotes here.
This is just so so validating for us as a show.
I love this. Uh. The challenge in thinking about a

(02:12):
case like the suspicious suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, the supposed
billionaire who spent his life acquiring sex slaves and serving
as a procure to the ruling class, can be summed
up in two sentences. Most conspiracy theories are faults, but
often some of the things they're trying to explain are real. Yeah,
it's pretty intense and that's all you really need to know.

(02:33):
That's just how he gets into the article. But he
goes on to explain essentially what we do on this
show exactly this this Those last two sentences could kind
of be a thesis statement or a mission statement for
this show. Um. So many of the things we talked
about are a mix of provable things and completely what
things that you would wildly conjecture on, whether they're real

(02:55):
or faults or trumped up. To explain things by kind
of using reverse logic to impose and narrative on things
that we maybe don't fully understand, whether it's the end
workings of the government or UFOs or anything like that.
The you know, um, behind the scenes dirty dealings of
the rich and powerful. But with this Epstein case, to

(03:16):
your point, Bend, we covered about a year ago. Everything
we covered in that episode pretty much proved to be true,
and so this is an update on our earlier episode
about the disgraced financier and uh proven child abuser Jeffrey Epstein.
Given the graphic and troubling nature of this story, this

(03:38):
episode may not be appropriate for all audiences. Things get
pretty dark. They get dark pretty quickly. Without replaying the
entire episode in which we explore Epstein's biography and the
high level outline of his crimes and his m O.
We can simply say that he was often advertising himself

(04:00):
as an enigmatic hedge fund manager. The problem was that
his clients, however many existed, were secret. And the weird
thing is hedge fund managers leave a large traceable footprint
if they are actually hedge fund manager, and yet the
source of much of his wealth remains kind of a mystery.
Even the amount of his wealth. It means because in

(04:22):
the quote that you just read, right, billionaire is in
uh in air quotes. Right. So let's let's go ahead,
and if you haven't listened to that first episode, uh,
pause this and check it out, because this is valuable information.
We'll hang on, We'll be right here. Great, okay, so
we're all caught up. Here are the facts. On January

(04:46):
fourth of this year, when we released this episode How
Jeffrey Epstein Broke the Law and Got Away, we explored
the rise and fall of this mysterious money man, Jeffrey Epstein.
He was famous in financial circles for his secret list
of clients, a few of whom were publicly identified, the
founder of Victoria's Secret being one. He was also famous

(05:09):
in his social circle for being a massage fanatic constantly
surrounded by women and children. You'll hear this referred to
in the media as underage girls, right or young women.
To be very very clear, the gamut age range we're

(05:30):
talking about here is does include like children were fourteen.
This guy was a serial offender and showed no signs
of letting up on his behavior. In fact, to due
largely to the efforts of a journalist named Julie Brown
and her team at the Miami Herald, that the national

(05:53):
public was even aware of this In the mainstream, epstein
story made national headlines, and a Herald identified eighty victims
and located around sixty. The spooky thing is that they
all had the same story. When they were either teenagers
or children, Epstein and his crew had recruited them to

(06:14):
participate in sexual activity, including forcing them to have sex
with other people at his commands, a lot of times
very old men. Jared Dershwitz one Alan Derschwitz. I mean,
that's what makes this extra disturbing is the fact that
he was grooming these people to essentially the term that

(06:38):
was using that op ed was become sex slaves. And
we've heard some things come out in the news too
recently about how he intended to receive the human race
by impregnating as many women as possible, like with his
in his image kind of you know, just a complete
psychopath and megalomaniac, just absolute degenerate and would never go

(07:04):
to jail ordinarily. Right. Well, that's why, that's why we
made that episode, right because we we realized that he
had gotten away with it. We put it in the title, Um,
you know, thankfully as we're going to continue on here,
he didn't get away with it, or at least, uh,
he was going to be held account Uh, you know,

(07:25):
that's very optimistic. It's it seemed as though it was
actually happening this, Yeah, agreed. So what we're talking about
here is legal troubles kick into high gear in the
early two thousand's, way before The Herald begins writing about it.
In July of two thousand and six, the FBI began
investigating Epstein and something called Operation Leap Year. Operation Leap
Year resulted in an indictment in June of two thousand seven.

(07:49):
It was like fifty three pages long, never made it
to a grand jury. And that's when a guy named
Alexander Acosta comes into play easily. One of the other
main villains in this story. Yes, yeah, he was at
the time the U S. Attorney for the Southern District
of Florida, and he agreed to a very unusual plea

(08:10):
deal with Epstein. The deal was that they would grant
him immunity from all federal criminal charges for his crimes.
They would also grant immunity for four co conspirators that
he had that were named, and additionally, anybody else, anybody else,

(08:32):
they'd be considered a co conspirator. Potential co conspirators would
also go unnamed and receive immunity. If that's not just
giving a straight up pass, I don't know what is.
It's it's importent, and I think he was. There was
a time even during the proceedings where he was allowed
to go to work right twelve hours. He could be

(08:55):
gone right and his prison door. After his sentence, his
prison door wasn't. He was able to use his own driver.
He formed a foundation shortly before he was in this
work release program and dissolved it right after, so he
would go to the office for his foundation every day. Also,
the tricky thing about this is that the victims were
not notified of this plea deal, so they had no

(09:18):
say in it. According to the Miami Herald, when this
non prosecution agreement occurs, it shuts down the FBI probe
into whether there were more victims, whether there were more conspiratories.
The name alone is laughable. A non prosecution agreement basically
means you're fine where you're you're free. We're gonna leave

(09:38):
you alone. Yeah. For a terrible, terrible comparison, imagine if
you are part of a club where you recreationally go
out and hop in a car and try to run
over children, and then when you get caught, they say, okay, well,
you know sometimes people drive on the sidewalk and we're

(10:01):
not gonna We're not gonna identify you, we're not gonna
identify your buddies who are in the car. We'll just
let him keep driving. And we're not even going to
reach out to the parents of the children that you
ran over. Exactly exactly. But there's a renkal here already,
because when after after Acosta agrees to this, he becomes
a higher up in the current presidential administration, and later

(10:25):
when he is faced with this huge WTF moment, right uh,
he says that he was more or less forced to
offer a lenient plea deal, which is a very diplomatic
way to put that. He was told by someone that
Epstein quote belonged to intelligence, was quote above his pay grade,

(10:47):
and that he should leave it alone. But Acosta took
a die for this eventually didn't like he got He
got some come up and for for his part in
all of this. That's right, that's right now, because he
was the Labor Secretary under the Trump administration, and in
July he announced his, uh, his resignation that he was

(11:10):
gonna walk away from it. I don't know if that's
the sort of thing you can walk away from. But
here's here's the rest of the way this works out.
Speaking that work release stuff. On June thirty two, eight
he pled guilty to a state charge. One of two
of the way they phrase it is procuring for prostitution

(11:30):
a girl below age eighteen, for which he sentenced eighteen
months in prison. Most sex offenders in Florida are sent
to state prison. Epstein instead was housed in a private
wing of the Palm Beach County Stockade, and after three
and a half months, he was allowed to leave the
jail on work release. For twelve hours day, six days

(11:51):
a week. Also, just think about how they phrase that sentencing.
They're calling these victims sex workers, you know what I mean,
they're signing agency to children. It makes me really sad.
You know. The whole thing is I mean, I think
this is one of them. I thought when we did
that episode it was one of the most disturbing things
we had discussed, because on the one hand, you don't

(12:13):
want you can look at a guy like Epstein who
represents this unattainable level of opulence and privilege, right, and
you can you can view it through the lens of man.
What if every rich, powerful man is a secret sex predator?
You know what I mean? Um, it makes you It

(12:34):
made me think of the next um guy. No, yeah,
for sure. I mean it's just like, you know, given
complete agency to do what thou wilt, are these men
going to exercise their every you know, debauched kind of impulse? Right?
Is it going to be a real like Marquis Dissad

(12:55):
kind of story where people just push a limit to
see whether it exist? I think when I'm the point
I'm getting aft though, is No, It's that's not the
case likely true, It's easy to look at a monster
like this and what he represents and apply that across
the board to like all rich and powerful men, especially
in the me two times that we're living in where

(13:16):
so many of these folks are finally having to answer
for what they've done. But no, I think they are
rich and powerful men that are that are not you know,
child sex predators. Yeah there, I'm sure there are quite
a few people who are. Like their idea of something
you know, wrong and taboo is like sneaking a milkshake

(13:38):
when it's not cheat day on their diet, right, and
their personal trainer is going to be really mad. But
people are People are just people, right, no matter how
deified or vilified they are. This guy is a monster,
and he had the means to pursue his goals. He
also paid the Sheriff's office a hundred and twenty eight

(13:59):
grand from a nonprofit to pay for the cost of
his prison circumstances or is stockade circumstances like extra amenities
and things or what. Yeah, he had access to the
attorney room where there was a TV installed for him.
You know, they dedicated that wing of the county stockade
to him. His office was monitored the office of the

(14:21):
foundation he set up in Dissult was monitored by what
we're called permit deputies, and he directly paid for their overtime.
These guys were required to wear suits, not uniforms, and
they checked in welcomed guests at the front desk. For
a time, he is essentially a freeman until there is
renewed scrutiny into the case and he's ultimately arrested in

(14:46):
New Jersey on sex trafficking charges on July six, twenty nineteen.
Was justice around the corner, right, So leading up to that,
I mean, he this this whole boogie jail situation, I
think he said been lasted around eighteen months and then
it was just back to business as usual, you know,
making piles of cash and presumably even bringing in more

(15:08):
victims you know, into this into this sex ring quite possibly.
And again it goes down to the means, if somebody
does not have this social or financial clout, then they're
not going to, you know, have a private island, They're
not going to have a Lolita Express. They're certainly not
going to get a non prosecution agreement. This guy seems

(15:31):
set to get away until that, until he is re
arrested on July six, and he is he is a
high value target for at least factions of the government,
the ones who are against child abuse. I did, I was.
I thought that was a united front, but that appears
to not entirely be the case. That's a that's one

(15:53):
way to phrase it, ben who are are not against it?
What specific led to the quote unquote renewed interests because
I was so surprised about was that everything we talked
about in that first episode, it was all the same
stuff that came back around, Like there wasn't anything new,
Like what that I'm aware of? Maybe correct me if
I'm wrong, but like, what was it that that, you know,

(16:16):
that kind of poked the bear and got things started again.
Julie Brown and the Miami Herald, That's exactly what it was.
And what's what's strange is that when we were talking
about this may have been just the three of us
off air, we based on Jimmy Saville. We we were

(16:37):
all pretty certain that this guy would never make it
to trial. You know, there's too much there's too much murkiness.
And in fact, there was what appeared to be a
possible suicide attempt perpetrated. On July twenty three of this year,
he was found unconscious, I believe, on the floor of
his cell with bruising around his neck. Yeah, And there

(16:59):
were ushions about whether or not it was a self
inflicted injury on his neck, or if maybe his cell
mate had done it. Lots and lots of questions. But
it put him on suicide watch, and it made him,
I mean kind of obviously somebody who's done all of

(17:20):
these things and then made the connections within the high
levels of society that you would want to watch this
guy closely. So that occurred on July. That's I mean
July six to July three. That's not a lot of time.
From that amount of time, he was arrested, put into jail,
then attempted suicide at least allegedly. Then this weekend, at

(17:43):
six thirty am on August two, thousand nineteen, Jeffrey Epstein
was found dead in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional
Center that it's also known as the m c C,
the one that's in New York City. That's a very
uh uh if we're talking about this facility, it is
locks down to the extreme, and he was found dead

(18:05):
there apparently from suicide. So what happened? We'll explore this
after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy,
strapping friends and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realists, we are heading

(18:28):
down a deep rabbit hole. It should be no surprise
that many people, including the FBI and the Department of Justice,
are calling for investigations into Epstein's demise. At this point,
an autopsy has been conducted, more than one actually, but
not yet released to the public. There are a lot
of facts that are going to come to light in

(18:49):
the coming days, and this therefore will be an imperfect update.
So we are attempting to We're attempting to gather what
we know now with the understanding that there will most
definitely be new things unfolding. There isn't just one conspiracy
theory in play here. There are many. Um. For example,

(19:12):
you know we've we look at the broad categories of it.
There is number one, the idea that Jeffrey Epstein did
not take his own life. Even mainstream print publications and
uh mass media news networks are referring to it as
an apparent suicide. Yeah, and there's something to be said
here when we if we think back to that New

(19:33):
York Times article, the op ed at the beginning, Uh,
it is not inconceivable that somebody that he was connected
to would want him dead rather than be able to speak,
especially in a trial, especially when there's discovery that's going
to occur, right for evidence discovery basically um and depending

(19:55):
on what they find in his home and all of
these things, you can imagine that buddy he worked with,
and when I say it worked with, I mean procured
a children for or maybe just young women for. So
not not in a hedge fund managing capacity exactly. Let's
talk a little bit about some of those documents that
were unsealed right before he supposedly took his own life,

(20:18):
further implicating many more high level potential sex offenders that
he may have helped connect with underage women. Yeah, allegations
right from Virginia Robert's last name g I U F
F R E f uh. So we do have to
say that at this point these are these are allegations,

(20:39):
but they do exist in a legal sense. The documents
differ from some earlier some earlier information because they name
some new people. They named New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson,
former U s Senator George Mitchell. Uh. They name members
of the royal family, Prince Andrew and it. It certainly

(21:02):
feeds into this narrative that there was some foul play
at work here because I believe, you know, he said
he was taken off suicide watch, but he did have
guards who were supposed to look check in on him.
And new reports show that these guards actually falsified reports
that they checked in on him when they in facted

(21:23):
not for the entire day. Uh, And he was dead
for several hours before he was found. You know, that's
pretty fishy, but we were We don't even have to
get into the speculative tearrit story. There's enough real, real
juicy information here on its own. Um back to the
idea of folks who flew on that plane, the Lolita Express.

(21:46):
We know from flight documents that both Bill Clinton and
Donald Trump flew on that plane, in addition to uh,
the philosopher Stephen Pinker, just some very odd associates of man.
And then you know, we have to also think about
the level of access very wealthy or powerful people will have.

(22:08):
Because someone met that guy at a party doesn't mean
they were part of his circle. You know what I
mean part of his crimes. They may have just donated
to the same nonprofit or something like that. However, we
do we do see the rise of a lot of
very disturbing and valid questions, such as his cell mate,
which was transferred out of the cell the like the

(22:31):
day of the death or very shortly beforehand. And we
also see, you know, the suicide watch is a big
question for everybody's suicide watch is supposed to require seven
monitoring UH also active physical checkens, UH, psychic vals, things
like that, and those were not happening at the time

(22:52):
of his death. And there are questions about even if
his own attorneys had asked to take him off of
suicide Watch and stop all the surveillance from happening on him.
So let's let's go back to the idea that he
did not take his own life but was murdered, the
idea that there was homicide somebody wanted to prevent news

(23:13):
coming out, somebody with the means to exert this sort
of influence. And it's interesting because in right wing circles,
right wing US political circles, UH, the theory that you'll
see thrown around the most is that the Clinton family
had Epstein murdered. Uh. The idea goes back to, uh,

(23:34):
the belief that you know, you've seen the hashtag Clinton
body count or something. The idea goes back to the
concept that the Clinton family has murdered multiple people. You'll
hear seth Rich shout it out on that. Um maybe
shouted out stuff the right word, but that's just one
of many culprits. You know, they'll say Massad did it,

(23:56):
the case Royals did it, and the Clinton body count thing.
I mean, we didn't have pisode on that. When we
did you know, during the election, we did Clinton conspiracies
and Trump conspiracies, and that stuff is pretty baseless. I mean,
there we we couldn't find much evidence to sink your
teeth into that that actually took place, that the Clinton's
actually had people killed. I agree, yes, there's no solid evidence.

(24:18):
Obviously they wouldn't be walking around if there was any
solid evidence that the Clinton's had been murdering anyone, uh,
together or separately. There there are a lot of somewhat
peculiar instances of people either going missing or dying around
the Clintons, which is why some of some of this

(24:39):
continues to proliferate. This idea, and I we even have
Donald Trump tweeting about the Clinton body count in reference
to Jeffrey Epstein. He also has another quote pertaining to
Epstein from before this went down, where he's essentially saying, yeah,
Jeffrey is a good friend of mine and he likes
them young wink wink, nudge, nudge. And it's so crazy

(25:03):
to me that Trump would perpetuate. I mean, I don't know,
maybe it's like a smoke screen since he's potentially implicated too,
because both of them were you know, we're on the plane.
But yeah, he we retweeted this post from this guy
Terence Kay Williams, who is confirmed on Twitter. I think
he's like kind of a conspiracy theorist type dude. But
um it says died of suicide on seven suicide watch.

(25:25):
Yeah right, how does that happen? Hashtag Jeffrey Epstein had
information on Bill Clinton and now he's dead. I see
hashtag Trump body count trending. But we know who did
this RT. If you're not surprised, I'm sorry, say what
you will about Trump Again. We tried to get too
political on the show, but what an irresponsible thing to

(25:45):
to do. Well, he's he's also connected to this story, Like,
how odd is that he did kick Epstein out of
marrow lago at some point it's true. Also, yeah, it's
I think there's a very out argument to be made
that maybe one should also be concerned about the cost
the possible co conspirators and their activities or the victims. Uh,

(26:10):
there are many of them, and it's it's strange because
this is only the beginning. There's also this idea that's
not quite homicide, that Epstein was allowed to take his
own life, right, that someone maybe maybe using attorney client privilege,
someone got a message to him and said something about
his family, something like that, and then the guards are

(26:34):
paid to look away, or you know, a break happens
at a certain time, at the same time in yeah,
the cellmates, the cellmates schedaddled, and then you know, maybe
just uh, the implements required or the time required just
happens and he's expecting it. But this is this is

(26:54):
something I wanted to ask you guys about. This is
weird if it is true that instead of a hedge
fund manager, this man was essentially a concierge of child
abuse and procuring children for these older men to abuse.
If that's true, would he not have some sort of

(27:15):
dead hand or kill switch system that that seems to
be like the only insurance that would work. This is
the idea of some sort of dossier that would be
deployed to the authorities in the event of his untimely
death exactly. I think we talked about this last time.
He essentially would have the most potent and perfect black

(27:37):
male like ready for all of these powerful people because
part of the reason that he was able to wiggle
out of, you know, the clutches of the law in
the first place, was because of like his brutally aggressive
legal team. You know, I mean, he did not pull
any punches. He was protecting himself to the hilt. So yeah,
it's a little odd that who knows, maybe it has

(28:00):
and deployed and we just haven't heard about it yet.
But I guess the point being what you're saying, I
think is that it wouldn't make sense for them to
bump him off if he had something, If he had
something like that, unless it was taken care of, unless
they needed the time between getting him getting arrested and
the authorities going through all this stuff, maybe they discovered

(28:21):
what they were looking for. He also had lead time
and almost well in several cases where his property was searched.
That's why Palm Beach they didn't find hard drives, they
didn't find you know, CDs with video footage. What did
they find though, benout a fan of this, a fan
of this, and a fan is it's a very weird

(28:41):
flex the things they found. Oh yes, yes, okay. So
in Palm Beach they found all the wires in which
one would you know which that you'd use to hook
up recording apparatus and video. And then in Manhattan in
a safe they found a they found a fake passport. Now,
passport fraud works differently. Apparently if you are a millionaire

(29:06):
or possibly a billionaire, we would go to jail for that.
He was able to kind of explain it away though
authorities right. His lawyer argued that this passport came from
a friend due to concerns for Epstein's physical safety where
he was when he was traveling in places where there
was you know, a lot of anti Semitism. So he

(29:27):
had an Austrian passport, his picture, a different name, and
enlisted his residency of Saudi Arabia. We would be under
the jail. He also had, uh, he also had several
thousand in cash, I can't remember, forty grand or something
like that. Yeah, and then he he had a bag
of forty eight loose diamonds. Loose diamonds, which is conflict

(29:50):
territory currents. Absolutely. And we also haven't talked about the
drone footage of his island, private island in the Virgin Islands. Um. Yeah,
because he's he's a he's an island owning territory. He
is a bond villain level wealth. Yeah. And there's a
temple on the island, or what appears to be a temple.

(30:11):
Let's go ahead and call it a sex temple. It's
very very strange. That island is probably cleaned out sanitizer
under investigation by the authorities now, but I believe that
law enforcement. You can see on the drone footage they'd
started blacking out windows and stuff. I can't remember if
we talked about this last time or not, but I
just find this fascinating and very strange. On that island,

(30:35):
there are photographs of an event. He was a big
fan of hanging out with scientists and physicists. One of
his closest aids referred to him as having the mind
of a physicist, and um there was he would do
these scientific conferences on that very island where a lot
of this these alleged you know, abuses were said to

(30:56):
have taken place, and it included people like Stephen Hawking, Uh,
Nobel Laureates, you know, David Gross, Frank Vilchick, physicists, uh,
Jim Peebles, Alan Gooth, Kip Thorne, Lisa Randall. Again, he's
obviously giving money to their causes. It makes sense for
them to schmooze. This was before that the original allegations

(31:19):
came out, So not throwing any of them the bus.
But one of these scientists who absolutely is standing accused
of having forced sex with an underage girl is m
I T. Professor Marvin Minsky, who was a close friend
of Epstein and it was a very important figure in
the development of artificial intelligence. Right. Minsky died in twenty sixteen,

(31:41):
was known associate of Epstein, and in that seen deposition
which is where the recent unsealed documents come from, she
names him as one of the many prominent scientists with
ties to him, as she also names Dershowitz and Alan
dersh which has the strangest, most bizarre sort of denials

(32:06):
or justifications. He's saying things like, oh yeah, I got
a massage, but don't worry. It was from an old,
unattractive person, you know what I mean. And there were
a lot of kids around, but nothing weird happened. It's
difficult to parse this, but just just for a snapshot
of how much speculation is proliferating right now. And do

(32:29):
you want to mention a third category of theory that
I ran into, which is that Jeffrey Epstein somehow committed
pseudo side the fancy word for faking one's own death
and escaped by a long shot. This is the least
plausible idea, but this is just the beginning. Will pause

(32:49):
for a word from our sponsor and then maybe dig
into more of the speculation, the footage, the group's involved,
the timeline of the death. We have returned. The reality

(33:10):
of the situation as it stands now means that we
are not working with all of the information and it
will continue to come out. But there are things that
we have to hit upon here. You know, one one
very creepy, disturbing quote was that acoust of quote from
earlier that somebody belongs to intelligence, What does that even mean?

(33:33):
What is that implying? It's the implication that they are
an asset or they are contracting out. So so for instance,
like in the in the intelligence community, for just making
up an example, let's say that you are you are
trying to conduct an operation in a country where that's

(33:54):
unfriendly to your intelligence agency, and you need to have
plausible deniability. So you're not actually doing stuff. You know,
you're not actually in the streets launching and coup and
overthrowing the government. However, you have some connections with a
local student union and they are protesting for democracy or
better access to lithium or whatever, and that's that. That's

(34:17):
the kind of thing. So somebody can work with an
intelligence um outfit and not themselves be a member of
the FBI or the or whatever. So the implication there
is that if we're going absolutely crazy, there's no hard
proof of this yet, the implication there is that he
was uh practicing honey pot techniques or hunting traps if

(34:40):
you want to call him that sort of like what
the Steel dossier UM that Trump that you know, supposedly
existed on trump UM would have been in terms of
the Russian government setting honeypot traps for foreign dignitaries and
then using uh, you know, compromand on them to blackmail them. Yeah,
compromat with a K, which is such a crazy great word.

(35:01):
But the it's so odd that it seems so easy
to find the weird inclinations of you know, powerful people.
And perhaps it's a measure of gradients, you know, I
if we're being dystopian, what do you think about the
possibility of this scenario. What if after after a certain
amount of success, like real genuine merit, right, what if

(35:25):
you reach some social or financial threshold of influence and
power where to join the Inner circle you are required
to do certain things, right, like you are required perhaps
and this is very I have no proof of this.
I'm just asking there's a thought experiment like let's say

(35:46):
you're you are up for partnership or you're going to
join this you know, international bank whatever, and they say, okay,
Well to get into the inner circle, something we all
have to do, you know what I mean? Like black
mirror example would be having sexual congress with an animal. Right, Uh,
this is it? Something like this and it has to

(36:08):
be filmed and people who are in charge to get
to keep that just in case you start doing something
they don't like, right, and intelligence communities have done stuff
like this before, this extortion, this blackmail. It changes with
the age, the time and place. Like in countries where
homosexuality was outlawed, intelligence communities would collect that dirt on

(36:33):
people and say, you know, vote this way or do
this thing if you don't want your secret revealed. The
difference here being that homosexuality is very much not a crime,
and it's very much not a choice people make. It's
who they are and they should have the right to
live their lives. And this one was using child abuse.

(36:53):
If if that's the case. If that's the case, then
the argument becomes that Epstein has had a backer, a
state actor of some sort or a faction within a
state actor that was enabling his access and reaping the rewards.
But back to your question, Matt, the thing that really,

(37:17):
the thing that really horrifies me is the idea that
at some point the people who were if this were
some kind of intelligence operation, the people who are doing
this to children. Again, if it's all true, they agreed
to do it, you know what I mean, they consented

(37:38):
at least I don't know what what brings a person
to that point. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's
all conspiratorial. It has a it feels, at least in
my gut, like there was something like this occurring. I
cannot prove it um that that the United States or

(37:59):
some into eligence group was using him directly to do
this thing as a tool, as like you were saying, then,
as somebody who can go into a country, not as
a state actor, not as an official agent or something
like that, but has the wealth and influence to make
things happen. And he also has this ability to get
you what you want for your messed up fantasies, and

(38:23):
you will use that against you simultaneously. Absolutely, uh And
speaking of getting you what you want, this is really interesting.
We talked about some co conspirators, and you know, the
question is like, what's next. Okay, so we've got Epstein
is clearly out of the picture. Any prosecution against him
is kind of moot, but it's certainly not moot as
far as the victims are concerned. As far as the

(38:44):
fallout for some of these co conspirators, one of whom
is a British socialite and longtime pal of Epstein's by
the name of Ghislon Maxwell, who's fifty seven years old,
and ever since, UH the kind of renewed interest in
the case, has apparently been hiding out in a mansion
in Manchester by the Sea, Massachusetts, UH, an oceanfront property

(39:08):
owned by her CEO tech CEO boyfriend Scott Borgerson, who
kind of does all the running around and walking over
her dog and getting groceries, and she very rarely leaves
the property. UM. She was named in that very same
deposition h that we've been quoting from and fought tooth
and nail to keep those pages, those two thousand pages

(39:30):
UM from that defamation lawsuit against her by Virginia Guffrey,
who was, you know, the one who was deposed and
gave all this information with these new individuals that were connected,
UM did not want that unsealed. And it is very
clearly someone that had something to do with this very
very real crime. I think no one's questioning that this happened,

(39:50):
that that this man was responsible for these crimes. I don't.
I know, he wasn't tried, but I just don't I
feel like he's being referred to as a pedophile. I mean, unequivocally.
Maybe that's not fair. Maybe that's trying him in the
court of public opinion, because he definitely but he already
got tried in the courts, and they just kind of
push it away. But that's so confusing to me, Like

(40:11):
there wasn't even a verdict rendered, right, uh, in the
original one. Yeah, he was found guilty on that one count,
which on the account of soliciting a minor for prostitution.
Because like we said earlier, though even the way that
is framed really really is incredibly disrespectful to the victims.

(40:32):
It's not like they consented at all. You know. It
also goes do you know Dershowitz. Alan Dershowitz was scheduled
to do a mock trial in which he would defend
Biblical child traffickers. This is true, Yeah, at a place
called Temple Emmanuel Striker Center in New York. It was

(40:53):
originally gonna happen in November and got canceled because of
this sort of stuff. He would be acting as defense
in the People versus Joseph's brothers. This is an annual
mock trial hosted by the Center based on stories from
the Torah, and the idea here was that they would

(41:14):
argue in front of the U. S. District Court judge
a person named Ronnie Abrams, and Abrams would decide whether
the brothers of Joseph, who appear in Genesis and the
Torah and Bible, should be held guilty for selling young
Joseph as a slave to some kind of sick like
legal thought experiment. So strange. Well, there is some good

(41:35):
news ish, I guess. Senator Ben Sass, Republican from Nebraska,
just this week um urged William Barr, the Attorney General,
who himself was dubious of the the apparent suicide, said
that we need to launch an investigation whether or not
that's just optics. It's hard to say, you know, Um,
but Sas is calling to quote unquote rip up that

(42:00):
non prosecution deal from two thousand and eight and hold
his co conspirators accountable. Wow, that's real. They were just
given the past right like they weren't. Even there's no
black mark on their record as far as the law
is concerned, you know, no no legal ramifications. And they're
alive and well, living in million dollar palatial estates, you know,

(42:25):
by the sea exactly. And we have to wonder, look,
whether you think you're the most skeptical person has ever
set foot upon this crazy experiment of ours called Earth,
or whether you think the things that the mainstream considers
the most out there are the most true. The fact remains,

(42:45):
something very very rotten is present. Something happened and is
happening right, And we felt obligated to make this this
update you. But we will probably have to keep looking
into this because stories like this, as strange as it sounds,

(43:07):
they can disappear well. And at the very least, this
very strange handling of a very serious crime in the
original case, it's kind of being treated like not that
big a deal. You know what I mean? I know,
I know exactly what you mean. Um, well, it makes
me want to go back to that New York Times
article for just one more minute, you guys. Uh to

(43:29):
the end, I'm gonna read a quote from this article again.
This makes so much sense to me. Okay, So imagine
right now, if we didn't know anything about Jeffrey Epstein,
we just knew what was on the surface about him.
He's some billionaire hedge fund manager guy that manages a
bunch of rich people's money. Um, that's all we know

(43:52):
about him. Right. Then imagine that Let's say we're sitting
in a hotel bar or something. Somebody walks up to
us and here's here's the quote. Um, imagine being told
all we know about him that he wasn't just a billionaire,
but a man mysteriously made and mysteriously protected who were
in a pedophile island with a temple to an unknown

(44:13):
god and plotted his own boys from Brazil endgame in
plain side of his Harvard d c. House of windsor Pals.
It's it would be insane. You would not believe that
for a second, that idea of a conspiracy theory feeling
so out there. It's perfectly represented there. But it's but

(44:35):
it's true. Oh no. But we've talked on the show
multiple times about how the term conspiracy theory itself is
so reductive and it's it's literally there's a word for it.
Then you might you might remember, um, just of of
like when you're trying it's that cognitive dissonance maybe, or
like when terminating cliche exactly, thank you, Yeah, for sure.
This is is this idea that by calling something that

(44:56):
you're dismissing its veracity on all levels, and you're you're
like basically belittling the person that's trying to discuss this
with you too, crackpot territory. And that's a really important
part to us about this show, is that we do
try to look at all sides and we talk about
these things for a reason, because even if you know
things are largely false, it's an interesting part of the

(45:19):
human condition to like look for answers and try to
even if it's in kind of a weird, reverse engineered way.
But this is a perfect example of a thing that
is absolutely provable on so many levels and absolutely represents
things that are happening in the shadows all the time.
I would say, I suggest that we since we can't
answer all the questions yet and maybe hopefully will be

(45:42):
able to one day, uh, I suggest we end on
one last question. If there was comproment, if there was
video or photographic footage or evidence of these crimes occurring,
like physically we could see, you know, these named co

(46:03):
conspirators and others engaging in these crimes. Who has the footage?
That would be one of the most explosive and powerful
things to possess. We know that somehow Epstein got hipped
to a search in advance at least once. So where
did it go? Did you destroy it? Is it somewhere else?

(46:24):
I bet it's backed up in multiple countries, in multiple banks.
I bet you that's where it is. That's just complete speculation,
but I can imagine him traveling around and putting it
in like a deposit box, building redundancy. Let's call this

(46:50):
breaking news. So we recorded the episode on Epstein yesterday,
which which just heard uh, and then it stayed with
us because we said it would be an imperfect update.
And I owe Matt and Noll an apology because I
started texting guys uh like four something in the morning

(47:14):
as more news broke. And so now we've gotten together,
I think we've all had about a collective four our
four hours of sleep. Yeah, Ben is not joking. It
really was four in the morning, and the stuff that
he was sending us was so explosive we realized we
absolutely had to add it to this episode. Yeah, the

(47:34):
three of us um as soon as we woke up
would have probably received tons of notifications about this stuff,
and we didn't want this episode to come out without
it because you see, uh, Jeffrey Epstein's bodyguard in Palm Springs.
A guy named Igor Zeno V former UFC fighter, former

(47:55):
UFC fighter, mysterious Russian m M A fighter. Uh, just
became the subject of a huge amount of scrutiny because
there is a text interview with him that was released
and is frankly chilling and damning. And Matt, you went
through and found excerpts of this thing. I did just

(48:18):
for a little more context. It's a phone call that
happened between this this journalist and Igor, and it's in
reference to her an update to a previous phone call
that they had in two thousand fifteen, and Igor like
apparently took forever to try and track him down. Nobody
has been able to get ahold of this guy. But
because this journalist had an inn already through speaking to

(48:41):
him in I guess Igor picked up the phone call.
And that journalist is M. L. N Stell who you know.
If that name pops up as a suicide, I would
also not believe it. Well, here's why. Let's let's get
into some of the quotations here. So, as we said,
this is in reference to a previous conversation. Now in

(49:03):
this version the twenty nineteen conversation, the journalist one more time.
What's her name? That is M. L. Nastell in E
S T E L okay. So Nastell is noticing that
Igor is being extremely evasive in the previous things that
he had stated in So I'm gonna let's read a
couple of things here. So this is Nastell, the journalist

(49:26):
in our conversation in you described his relationship with teenage girlfriends.
Quote so many time I tried to stop him. I
tried to tell him my opinion about that. He don't
listen to me. That's the reason why I'm not working
for him no more. I make him do that to
let me go. Do you remember saying that? And so
before we get to his response, wouldn't be clear that

(49:48):
because this is a phone call, Uh, the journalists made
the decision not to try to correct any grammar. No paraphrasing,
no paraphrasing. This is exactly the physical record of what
he gore said. So his response and the second interview
is it's not the teenage girls. I never see the
teenage girls. I tell you, I never see teenage girls

(50:10):
plenty of times what I work for him, I never
see anything on proper or teenage girls around him. That's
what I say. And again that quote from earlier from
the journalist is exactly what was stated the last time
they spoke. And he's now denying, why don't we go
on just a little bit. Doesn't even field attention here,
So he's so the journalist says, so now you say

(50:30):
you only saw him with women older than eighteen twenty all,
what I say. He has always been with girlfriends. And
there was a couple girls. I don't remember their names.
She was twenty five and worked for him as assistant,
maybe twenty five or twenty three whatever. I don't know
the age. Okay, but you definitely told me that last
time we talked. No, no, it's not that he working

(50:53):
like work release on other stuff. And I just tell him,
you know, he would order his girlfriends around, and I
told him, calmed down, it's not just teenage girls. I
never see teenage girls in my life at his house.
That's what it is. That's a misunderstanding completely. Uh. And
then he goes on and it's true. I think that's

(51:15):
really important. It's true. Without hearing the intonation of the conversation,
we can maybe find ourselves reading some tea leaves. So basically,
he's backpedaling on the age like he unequivocally in the
first comment said I tried to stop him with a
teenage girl as it was weird, and then got the
amount of times he says teenage girls. In the second one,

(51:37):
the rebuttal or with I guess that where he kind
of pulls back. It sounds so much like he's got
something to hide or as a talking point. Yeah, So
we have to remember he was functioning as bodyguard and
driver sometimes and combat trainer and combat trainer in light
combat at least according at least according to Igor. But
he lived on in a guesthouse uh on a property

(52:00):
of Epstein. For a long time. He would drive Epstein
to locations where he would stay in the car. Epstein
would leave for a couple of hours and come back. Now,
most of this is during the time that Epstein was
in jail, but he was getting those twelve hour releases
where he would go and have these meetings and Igor
would just shuttle him around. So I want to go
to a different part of this too. So several times

(52:25):
in this interview the journalist is literally quoting verbatim back
to uh Igor. And there's this one part that really
stands out. And it's an old quote that he says,
all right. Uh, the journalists is saying, I understand this
is sensitive. Igor saying it's not sensitive, it's just kind
of a little incorrect. And then the journalist goes in

(52:48):
hard and says, it's exactly what you said. I can
send it to you. Here's something else you said. It
could be tricky. You know, normally he meaning Epstein always
checks his newspapers. Nothing about me. I say, no, He say,
they forget about me. And what I mentioned Epstein was
being exposed from messieing with teenage girls. You said, I'm
not surprised at all. I'm just surprised how low he

(53:11):
can be outside the real world. Someday is going to
call him and it will be real jail. He has
so much money he can pay it off me personally.
If I caught him with my daughter or something like that,
I'm not going to go to police. I do something
else much worse. That guy could try to assume me
and manipulate the situation with his money. That's the American way.

(53:32):
I know he's screwed up a lot of fashion girls. Also,
that's a different story. Why would he be so candid
like that, whether with a reporter. I guess he thought
it was untouchable, you know, like nothing would come of
it because nothing had. But that changed. No, I mean
would I would think he would consider, you know, especially
what he's saying about how powerful and rich Epstein is,

(53:53):
how he's he's untouchable. Why would he go out on
a limb like that about his employer and put himself
in the line of fire like well, he was he
was an employee, right. You can only speculate what Epstein
might have on him or something like that, But who
knows that kind of thing. In this case, it's just
a guy talking about his employer who was in a

(54:14):
lot of legal trouble. That's what I'm imagining. But I
see the motivation to like, it doesn't sound like good
housekeeping or good employee employer hygiene. Uh. But we have
to remember, legally speaking, we don't. This guy doesn't have
attorney client privilege or anything. I'm sure there might be
some sort of n d A, you know, or some equivalent.

(54:37):
But it gets really, it gets really spooky. And you
can read the entirety of the phone call, at least
for now, in the transcript form on n y mag
dot com. But let's let's look at another segment of this,
because this does escalate. Right now, we just have a
guy who sounds like he's trying to walk back some
some smack he was talking. But this next part is

(54:59):
very differ it. Yeah, it's just before we get into
really odd to me that he would walk it back
after he's dead, Like it seems like he would have
less to lose letting his original statements ride, and wasn't
the dangerous one that exactly there's something else going on here.
So he goes, I'm not afraid beyond that, just he
is dead. I don't want anything to be uncorrect. There's

(55:21):
too much in here. You know already he's dead, and
just like freaking people just leave him alone. Then the
journalist asked, hold on, when did you find out he died?
Saturday or Sunday or whenever? What did you think when
you found that out? What did I think? Yeah? Are
you sure you want to hear what I'm going to think? Yes,

(55:42):
somebody helped him to do that. You think somebody helped
him kill himself? Yeah? Okay, why listen? You know that's
going a little too deep. I mean, I'm just trying
to understand that maybe you'd be happy he was dead,
or you would be upset. I don't know, are you
even feeling anything? A nuts said, I mean, I didn't
have anything against him, like a bad thing. You know,

(56:03):
I don't care about his life completely. I don't give
let's say, like crap about how he died, how we live,
or how he's managed, how he's managed. How many years
did you live in his house? Five or six years
in Palm Beach, that's a long time. Yeah, you don't
have any emotion after learning he died. Did you think

(56:24):
it would happen to him? It's unexpectable. Well, it's like,
well I realized others tried to talk to you. Did
he ever offer money? Uh? Did he anybody ever try
to silence? You? Know? I get that, but you and
I have a history at this point. One thing he
told me, for instance, okay, one thing you told me
is he got a head's up to when the authorities

(56:44):
were going to come to his house the night before. Listen,
what you say is between you and me. You told
me he would get phone calls the night before at
eight o'clock the police are going to come. He would
get a heads up from the local police. We've got
some silence and serious silence here. You told me that, Igor,
Do you want me to read the quote back to you. Well,

(57:05):
you can read whatever you want right now, don't just
you can put yourself in big trouble. Who Yeah, that's
what he said, you can put yourself into Well. I
don't know if it's a threat from him. I mean
it sounds like he's a little scared, more of a
warning and it goes on because the journalists, this journalist
is top notch. Yeah, like here he is reading the quote.

(57:27):
You said, he always do something wrong. There was some
nights in question, there was at home arrest and police
before they come to the house, they call him and
tell him they're coming in at eight o'clock in the morning.
It's all corruption, you know, it's all bulle listen, don't
put yourself in trouble. Seriously, Okay. Pause. So that is

(57:48):
a huge implication there, or a huge accusation. Is a
huge statement saying that the local police. We talked about
this in the episode, how he would get a heads
up and know, like to clean things out of the
house if they were if the authorities were coming over
in the morning. This is what the bodyguard who lived
with him is saying is happening. Yeah, which is not

(58:09):
you know, not smoking gun proof, but is very chilling,
circumstantial proof. And then from here on Igor attempts to
persuade this journalist to drop it, to let this stuff go.
And we left off where he says, don't put yourself
in trouble. Seriously, but the reporter, just like you know,

(58:32):
a more a eel clamping down continues. We talked about this.
I understand, we got this. I'm telling you to give
you a chance to remember because we talked about this stuff.
I know it's hard. I don't know what you mean
about put myself in trouble. Let that go, seriously, let
that go. Why is it so important? Are you worried

(58:54):
about the local cops? Listen, you're really smart, and I'm
not going to offer that over the phone right now. Okay,
you're really smart. You have no idea? Please, what do
you mean by that? I can't explain you. I can't
explain you over the phone any of this. You said
that last time, and we didn't talk for years. You
can tell the world who this guy was. You were

(59:16):
with him for a long time. You know what I mean, silence.
I totally understand that you think he could have had
help committing suicide. First of all, I have to go
right now. I have another client still training people. Yes,
but just be careful. I am not kidding. What's your

(59:36):
emails so I can send him do any kind of
that stuff? Just don't play it seriously? Can you tell
me why I can't? I can't. I ask you one
more question? Go ahead. Have you been talking to anyone
in the government, the FBI? Have they come to you.
There's a long pause here. Um, great, talking to you serious?

(01:00:00):
Will we talk later? Really? Bye? All right bye? That's insane.
That was four am last night. Where as we're reading
through all of that. Um, it's bonkers, man. Whoa so
again not full proof, no, but chilling, chilling stuff and
especially all the better. You better watch it. Seriously, Let

(01:00:22):
that go. Let it go. Man, that's like some movie
stuff right there. I mean, well, that is a dangerous dude.
This is a This is an m M A fighter
who was good at his job. There's a picture of
him too, so he is kind of enigmatic. We don't
have a lot of information on him yet, but we
have another quick update. We found those those prison guards

(01:00:43):
that we mentioned, who I think, as you have mentioned all,
they had been asleep and falsified records on the night
of the death, or that at the time of the
death at the very least they did not check on
him at all and claimed that they did. I was
the sleep thing confirmed. Apparently, Yes, apparently they were not
only sleeping on their job literally they were also not

(01:01:07):
the regular guards. They were temporary guards who had been
assigned UH. And it feels weird to say, you know,
it's my first few days of work like some guy,
I probably don't know that well, but I'm comfortable enough
for both of us to snuggle up and take a snooze.
I mean, maybe people have just a very different sense
of boundaries, especially with what's at stake. And we did

(01:01:27):
talk about a little bit about how within the United
States UH system of prisons, there's a lot of being
overworked as employees. So like taking an app I don't know,
it's not completely out of out of bounds of reason,
but at the same time, for two at the same
time and right when they were temporarily brought on on

(01:01:48):
the day of this event. Yeah, I mean, it sure
seems like there was some manipulation going on. Maybe they
were brought in because they were in the know, you know,
like there they weren't gonna ask questions. I don't know
who knows, but so that certainly continues to make the
mind real. And then we got the autopsy results back. Well,

(01:02:09):
we got part of partial and this is this is
the other thing we found. Uh in the wee hours
of the morning. A report from the Washington Post cited
two people familiar with the findings of one of the autopsies,
and it shows that Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in
his neck bones, including what's called as high woid bone.

(01:02:31):
That's sort of a like a picture of horseshoe and
if you're a dude, it's located in your adam's apple.
And the Post says, quote, such breaks can occur in
those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according
to forensic experts and studies on the subject, but they
are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation. Yeah.

(01:02:54):
And I and let's not forget that other attempt or.
He had bruising around his neck. And I don't know
that we mentioned this in the in the main part
of the episode, but there were shrieks heard coming from
his cell. You know, you don't. I didn't even know
that you don't. You don't shriek when you're hanging yourself,
when you're being strangled, or when you're being attacked. And
I had a really great conversation um with Jack O'Brien.

(01:03:17):
We're actually just f y I pepin the card. We're
in Orlando for this podcast convention podcast movement, and I
have been lucky not to get to hang with some
of the West Coast folks from from our network. And Jack,
who does the Daily Zeite Guys Fantastic show, was really
interested in this and we all spoke to him about
it briefly. But um, he made the point of this
is a guy who has demonstrated zero remorse, who has

(01:03:40):
been able to wiggle his way out of every situation
that he's been in because of his sheer wealth and
opulence and in connections. Right, I would say absolutely all
of that combined. This is not a man who kills
himself out of shame. This is a man who waits
it out and sees what's gonna happen and sees what

(01:04:00):
kind of out he can get. You know, it doesn't
make any sense. Yeah, he was already shamed. If the
shame was going to do it for him, why didn't
he do it? Why didn't he kill himself before? He
also doesn't have a big family that we know of,
children that we know of, because the typical mob or
criminal tactic would be to coerce suicide by threatening ones

(01:04:25):
loved ones, right, But they that leverage doesn't seem to exist.
I was on the Daily Zeite Guys Jack and Miles
podcast talking about epstein Um a little bit more and
they made the same point again, but before this information
came out. You know, in this show, we're very careful
to be very clear with all of our fellow listeners

(01:04:48):
if we're giving out our opinion rather than facts, and
you know, I have to be honest. This is just
my opinion, and I definitely don't speak for everybody. But
this is rotten. Something is not right. This guy did
for for one or two of these circumstances to happen. Sure, okay, right,

(01:05:09):
overworked prison guards are not at their job, right, or
maybe someone with suicidal ideation is misdiagnosed by an overworked psychologist,
right or psychiatrist. But for all these different things that
happen at once at the same time. It's it can't
be a coincidence. I feel like I'm Charlie Day and

(01:05:32):
always stunny in Philadelphia in the mail room, pointing its
stuff with a bunch of red string here. But I
don't think it's off base. Who is Peppe? Who is pepe?
He doesn't even exist? There is no Pepe How many
time I don't know, I don't think I don't remember this. See,
I don't know who Peppen is either. Um. No, that's

(01:05:52):
the thing, and that's why that that OpEd that we
led led the show with. I think it's so interesting
because this idea of a conspiracy theory or a conspiracy
theorist is like a thought terminating cliche. Um, this is this.
These are two very real things. Conspiracies where people collude together,
you know, for an end, a common end, and theory
is a way of discussing open mindedly, hopefully in our case,

(01:06:15):
those potential collusions. And this is just a clear cut
case where these theories that we're putting out there are
absolutely plausible. Yeah, I wouldn't even call this conspiracy theorized.
And at this point it's much more like investigative true crime,
following the bread crumbs and putting together in the puzzle. Okay,
not back to the thing from yesterday. We want to

(01:06:37):
hear from you. Let us let us know what you
think about this story. Is it's a story that will
somehow fade from the news. Is this just another chapter?
What would be along continuing saga? And do you believe
this idea about ties with intelligence agencies? And if so, uh,
do you also believe that there's a situation where he

(01:07:01):
captured footage? And do you think there are other situations
in the past that we should be looking into that
are kind of like that that have occurred. Maybe we
just don't know about it yet. Send it our way.
You can find us on Twitter and Facebook where we're
Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram or Conspiracy Stuff Show. You can
hang out at our community page on Facebook called Here's

(01:07:22):
where it Gets Crazy. You can have discussions about this
and all other topics there with your fellow conspiracy realists.
That page was going nuts when this news dropped. Yeah,
check out all the memes. It's it's pretty interesting stuff.
You can give us a call. We are one eight
three three st d w y T k Leave a message,
tell us what you think. Make sure to tell us

(01:07:43):
if you do or do not want your name on
the air, or you know, just any specifics. Three minute
cut off. Try to keep it within three to do
it tight three. Yeah, y'all keep leaving messages. There are hundreds,
hundreds and hundreds for us to let me rephrase that.
If it needs to be longer than a tight three,
you can call back and do a continuation. Sometimes these

(01:08:04):
stories take longer than three minutes, and it's unfortunately a
limitation of this voicemail service that we have, But we
definitely want to hear from you, and a lot of
you have already h sent us messages via voicemail about
Jeffrey Epstein and thank you, thank you for writing to us.
We do also want to let anyone listening know that

(01:08:24):
if you have found yourself in an abusive situation, who
knows someone who needs help, You are not alone. Neither
are they. There are twenty four seven crisis resources and hotlines.
You could call one eight hundred six five six hope
that's six five six four six seven three to speak

(01:08:46):
with counselors twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.
That's fantastic Thank you for doing that, Ben. And if
you don't want to do any of the communication with
us and you just want to send us a good
old fashioned email, we are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com.

(01:09:20):
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