August 17, 2022 • 66 mins
These days, it's common knowledge that governments hide any number of things from the public -- but how deep does the rabbit hole go? According to Bob Lazar, the US government has been hiding the existence of extraterrestrials for decades (if not longer). In today's episode, Ben and Matt explore Lazar's claims, his critics -- and the vast conspiracy Bob believes exists, largely unknown to the public, in the modern day.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is not joining
us today, but he will be returning shortly. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Paul Mission controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you. You
are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't
want you to know? Now, Matt, you and I and
(00:47):
planning this episode, we I think each individually experienced a
series of deja vu moments. Would you agree? Yes, this
is a topic that fells as though we've done four
episodes on it because of how often we've spoken about
this and how deep our personal research has gone into
(01:09):
this subject and person. Yet we do have some personal
skin in the game here on a number of fronts
to be completely transparent. Uh, but you know, let's start here.
It's true. Governments do cover things up, governments do spin
alternate narratives, and that you don't have to be uh,
(01:32):
A died in the world true believer or a skeptic
to accept that as fact, because like gravity, it's real.
At least governments do attempts right attempt to try to
cover up some stuff. Uh, and it happens constantly. In
today's episode, we are exploring the story of a controversial man,
(01:55):
a figure who claims he has firsthand knowledge of a
cover up so asked, so sophisticated, and so incredible that
even to speak about it openly may put people in
physical danger. His name Bob Lazar. Here are the facts,
and again, this deja vu is going to be hitting
(02:16):
me the entire time we're talking about this. We're just
going to scratch the surface. This is kind of an
introduction to the front door of the rabbit Hole, and
we want to hear from you. At the end, Matt,
riddle me this. Who is Bob Lazar. Bob Lazar is
this subject of Joe Rogan interview that I think is
(02:38):
one of the top episodes that's ever come out, along
with our friend Jeremy Corbell. So if you know about him,
it is likely that perhaps you only know about Bob
Lazar because of that interview, because of the popularity of
that show. But Bob Lazar, it's a real person, a
human being, just like you and me and Ben Okay,
(03:02):
So moments are Bobbazar's full name is Robert Scott Lazar.
He was born January in nineteen fifty nine, just a
couple of years older than my parents. Um. He is
in Florida where he was born. He had some parents,
Phyllis and Albert. He went to junior college at this
(03:22):
place called the Pierce Junior College in Los Angeles, and
according to Bob, like to his own words, he has
a master's in physics from m I T. Perhaps the
most prestigious technology focused school on the planet. He also,
according to his own words, has a master's in electronic
technology from cal Tech, another rather prestigious university. Yeah. And
(03:48):
note here, folks, how how we're framing that Matt Matt saying,
we know he went to Pierce Junior College. Uh and
we know that he says he has those uh degrees
from m I T and cal Tech. Here's the thing
you're going to deal with. Any time you look into
(04:09):
the case of Bob Lazar, you're gonna find that details
can get a bit murky. Uh So right now, for now,
we're going to stick with what can be universally inarguably
proven matters of acknowledged fact. It is true. It is
a fact that in Bob Lazar was working for a
(04:29):
company that was a contractor providing support staff for a
place called Los Alamos Mason Physics Facility. It's part of
the Los Alamos National Laboratory. And you know, as you
can tell from the name, it's located in Los Alamos,
New Mexico. It's a real place. It is not housed
(04:52):
in Area fifty one, which we'll get to, but is
instead in a place called Technical Area fifty three, which
is also aware of the creepy name. So close to,
so close, so close. When it was built, it was
the world's most powerful linear accelerator. So think of CERN
(05:16):
something like CERN, but as a straight line rather than
a loop. And this is a big deal. This is
a good science. It's legitimate. It opened in June of
nine two, so when Bob joins up in two, this
facility is about ten years old. They've been at it
for a while. It's not their first rodeo. No, it's
(05:37):
not just quickly, let's just talk about particle accelerators. Because
at that time, in good God and in the seventies
and eighties, particle accelerators. That's some of the peak science
that's occurring, right at least when when you're speaking about
the science of the very small science of the sub
atomic and trying to understand what does an adam break
(05:59):
down into. That's intense, cutting edge stuff. So it shouldn't.
I mean we don't. I don't know exactly what his
contract work was through that contractor for that facility doing
that work, but in order to be working there at
that facility, you do have to know what you're doing
if you're actually involved in the science. Yeah, no chumps
(06:20):
in the squad. As as we say here that that
applies at an even more extreme level when you get
to the rarefied air of this sort of science. And
I love the point you're making that because this seems
like pretty awesome work, right, It's it's also it's it's
bleeding edge science at this time. And it's also the
(06:42):
kind of experimentation that doesn't seem fraught with moral quandary. Right,
we're just learning more about the universe that we're not,
you know, experimenting on animals or people, which the US
has done before. Unfortunately, not every thing is trumpets and
angel farts. For our pal Bob. A few years later
(07:06):
in you see public records of a bankruptcy filing in
Las Vegas and during that time. Uh. In those descriptions,
Lazar list his occupation as a self employed film processor.
So at some point he parts ways with Los Alamos uh,
(07:30):
and then he starts his own business company that is
around today called United Nuclear Scientific Supplies. United Nuclear Scientific
Supplies or United Nuclear for short. Is like it's an
online site. It's a it's a mail order thing. You
can go to that website right now and you can
(07:52):
order all kinds of interesting stuff. We are pulling it
up right now just so you and and everybody listening
along can take a look. Uh. The first thing you
see on the website, it's definitely like a more old
school online store. The first thing you see is a
(08:12):
list of miscellaneous nuclear items. Uh, Matt, this is where
we get to play with our proxies and see if
you and I are in different search bubbles. Oh well,
it checked my It checked my browser before it allowed
me in. So that's interesting. The same thing. But you
and I, You and I's uh maybe not the normal browsers.
(08:35):
Well I do, hey man, I'm on safari right now,
I'll tell you. I'm on Safari and I'm seeing a
Geiger counter test card a bunch of items that are
created to be They appear to be radioactive marbles and
Fiesta wear. But I'm also seeing thorium nitrate on sale,
which is interesting. Wait, I'm seeing uranium high purity uranium
(09:00):
sample for collectors in display. The purity is ninety eight
and it's only fifty bucks. Yeah, but it's not a
lot of it. You know why am I trying to
make it sound more reasonable? Yeah, uranium acetate, uranium dioxide,
uranium metal, three gram sample, all the hits. You know,
(09:22):
they've got yellow cake on this sucker, uranium peroxide for
only fifteen bucks. Yeah, again, it's not a ton of it.
Though you're not ordering ms. Maybe there's a price break.
I don't know. Maybe you could write and ask if
there's a price break. But as we'll see, with good reason,
Lazar and the staff of United Nuclear might be a
(09:44):
little suspicious of someone saying, hey, I saw the yellow cake.
Can we move weight on this? You know, how how
much is the whole cake? I'm attempting to purchase twenty
grams of yellow cake right now? Let's see, uh says
new customers can create an account. I wonder if you
(10:05):
have to put in some kind of associated you know,
university or company information, or you could just as a
regular old person buy yellow cake. This is scary. I
don't like this. I'm leaving. Well, you can also buy mugs,
you know, like it's not you know, it's it's not
all science get stuff. But yeah, you can buy gallium.
(10:28):
You can get some cool stuff like liquid metal alloy,
which is gallium indium in ten. That's neat. You know,
it looks very t two thousand, but it's not as
dangerous for you as mercury um, which isn't sane much anyway.
That part we can prove. Yeah, that part we can prove.
United Nuclear Scientific Supplies is a real thing. It's around today.
(10:51):
They send a bunch of scientific equipment, chemical substances to students,
to instructors, to scientists, of course, and interestingly enough, also
to law enforcement professionals. I imagine a lot of the
law enforcement connection or business comes from things like radiation
(11:13):
detection kits of some sort. There's nothing wrong with this
at all. By the way, this is all legal, and
a lot of people in the audience today will rightly say, well,
starting your own business, guys, that's something people call the
American dream or part of it. Yeah, once you can,
you know, buy a house from under some headge fund,
(11:37):
you can start your own company. That's the next step, right.
But not for nothing do we say Bob Lazar is
considered pretty controversial. If you've heard of him, odds are
that you have not heard about You've not heard about
him as the guy who will sell you shards of uranium.
(11:58):
We're going to get to the big controversies and the
reasons you've heard this name in the past, but before
we do, let's look at some of the smaller controversies.
So Matt, earlier we talked about how Lazar claims to
have attended M I T and Cal TAP in a
couple of different times in the past. He stated this,
(12:18):
those institutions have no official record of his attendance, and this,
like already, we're seeing the narratives start to diverge. Because
if you are a hardcore supporter of Lazar and you
believe the entirety of his claims, then you won't be
(12:41):
surprised that people who agree with you say a shadowy
government force or shadowy institutions some sort has erased his records.
Just to be clear, there are ufologists who do not
agree with Lazar, and one of them is a guy
named Stanton free Hman. Stanton Friedman did some digging, did
(13:03):
some due diligence, and concluded that it was incredibly unlikely
that someone or some force could have erased the entirety
of someone's attendance at an institution, at least during this time.
I'm sure it was much easier back during you know,
the eighteen hundreds or something. Well, especially to get a
(13:24):
master's degree. Right. There are a lot of people at
even the most prestigious colleges and universities getting or on
track to get a bachelor's degree, right, And then there
are many fewer attempting to get a master's degree, and
then way many fewer attempting to get a doctorate. Right.
So it's just if as you whittle those down, it's
(13:45):
less and less likely that one of those upper echelon
tiers can be completely expunged. Right. Yeah, again, rarefied Air,
it's difficult to get there, as any of our fellow
listeners with a master's degree or pat is well aware.
Uh So, another thing. Lazarre has described himself as working
(14:07):
as a physicist during his time at Los Alamos, and
there are people who dispute that as well. One notable
person would be Donald R. Prothero. Again, it seems that
Lazar really did work at this site, but per Prothero,
his position as a technician for a contractor means that
(14:32):
he did not directly work for Los Alamos, which means
that the lab would not reasonably have a record of him.
And this has led to confusion in the press. If
you go through any of the any of the usual
outlets over the past few years, of past few decades, actually,
(14:52):
you will see some calling him like the Smithsonian will
call him a self proclaimed physicist, and other other outlets
will simply refer to him as a physicist. So already
you know there's some murky, shaky stuff. But the the
million dollar question, the element one fifteen question here is
(15:15):
why are we talking about him now? Well it all
goes back to Jeremy Corbel. Dude, I don't know how
and why, but Jeremy has found himself right at the
center of this story. And another guy that we're about
to bring up, George Knapp, who who was a broadcaster
in Las Vegas. He has been for a long time.
(15:37):
He put out a report in May of nineteen eighty nine.
It was a satellite link coming out of lv Nevada.
And boy was this a strange report. Oh yeah, it
has all the makings of a wonderful modern folklore. A
physicist self proclaimed for Otherwise halls George Knapp and speaks
(16:02):
to him using a pseudonym, disguising his true identity, and
he says that there are nine alien disc Yes, folks,
alien is an extraterrestrial vehicles, nine alien vehicles held near
Groom Lake by a small faction of the US government
(16:23):
that functions autonomously. This caller uses the name Dennis, and
later the story goes the public discovers that Dennis is
again just the pseudonym, and Dennis is actually the name
of Bob Lazar's old boss at the base. A few
(16:45):
weeks later, Pop Blazar goes on camera and he goes public.
He uses his real name and as Coast to Coast
a m puts it. He has been the subject of
worldwide curiosities, reculation and controversy ever since. Why well, you're
(17:05):
gonna pause for word from our sponsors and then we'll
tell you here's where it gets crazy. Then. I can't
believe bab Lazzar used the dentist system so early ahead
of his time, for sure. Yeah, the first known case,
(17:29):
uh describe energize, uh numinate. I'm trying to come up
with a non Reynolds dentnist system. Yeah, he did use
the dentist pseudonym. That part is true and clearly the
inspiration for Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Uh. He also in
(17:51):
his report is what puts Area fifty one on the
map of pop culture. I'm keep in mind at this
time to be absolutely are the US government has not
officially confirmed anything about Groom Lake or Area fifty one,
and they will not for several decades. Actually. Uh, this
(18:13):
interview with George Knapp is the kind of stuff that
would absolutely galvanize anybody who's a fan of the X Files,
anybody like Like, if you ever see this on YouTube
clip or you check out video versions of our show,
you'll know that Matt Nolan I are huge, huge fans
(18:35):
of the X Files. In fact, Matt regularly records with
a kick ass poster of the X Files in every shot.
Just Scully's eye looking red at you and molders never
looking away. Yeah. Now we're huge fans, and no, I
just have to hit that point one more time. They
(18:56):
already said been Area fifty one wasn't known thing. It
was known in maybe a few circles or rumors of it,
but it wasn't talked about like like, this is a
big deal to have somebody coming forward talking about this
place that is secret, where there are government experiments and
(19:16):
allegedly flying saucers, and and part of that is incontrovertibly true.
There is an Area fifty one. There is a Groom
Lake right, there are uh classified government projects and they
definitely were over the years. So he goes a little
more specific and says he's worked at a top secret
(19:38):
military base called S four near Papus Lake and that
his job there is to reverse engineer crashed extraterrestrial vehicles.
If his claims held up under scrutiny, if they could
be conclusively proven, this would be an unprecedented did moment
(20:00):
in history. This would be proof that there is intelligent
life beyond the confines of Earth or this dimension, or
however you want to put it. There's really no way
to articulate how big this news would be, dude. I mean,
we're talking about taking apart an extraterrestrial vehicle in order
(20:23):
to understand how the tech works, so that the United
States government or some contractor of the government could build
things that would run on that same technology. If that
were happening, right, actually happening and successfully, then the US
military would potentially be unstoppable, which it already you know,
(20:47):
is the most dangerous advanced military on earth that we
know of. Uh. This, so this gives a lot of
questions to people, right, even folks who consider themselves very
much skeptical, they're hearing this or they're watching this broadcast
and they're thinking, huh, what is out there? Exactly right,
(21:10):
I've never been, or even more tantalizing, I have been.
I saw signs that turned me away, and those signs
looked serious and matt As you know, even even today
in the US and arete, the military is not playing around.
(21:31):
We have a couple of friends contacts, we're not going
to name them on air, but they have attempted to
go to Area fifty one and their experience was super
not good. So yeah, I do have to disagree with
you minorly been because our military is kind of playing
around uh in Taiwan today as we're recording this. I
(21:55):
mean there's some there's some messed up stuff happening on
today on day August five as we record this. We
should put that in. Yeah, we should do you know what,
we should do a future episode on military drills because
I know it's confusing to a lot of people. Right, Uh,
where are they just firing missiles to the north east
(22:19):
and south of Taiwan? That's weird? Why are they surrounding
the area and just shooting stuff? Why is calling something
to drill the equivalent of going just saying yeah, you know,
like ad just saying just playing, I'm just playing with it.
But you're right, you're right, Um, I think we should
do an episode examining the role of military drills. It's cut, Ben,
(22:42):
It's kind of like the equivalent of it, like a
dad that gets really angry or something back in the
nineteen seventies and instead of hitting anybody in the house,
just goes out of starting outside and starts beating up
the garage door or something and just showing you their force.
Just Uh. The one I heard was taking a baseball
bat and just smacking it against a tree. There you go,
(23:05):
That's exactly it. I do that all the time. So
what's a good exercise. Uh? So Lazar is now a
known entity. He's gone public, he shed the pseudonym. He's
speaking with George Knapp. He reaches an even larger audience
when he goes on one of I think our favorite
(23:27):
radio shows growing up, the legendary Coast to Coast AM.
Coast to Coast AM, if you've never checked it out
is a for many years, it has been the number
one radio show about things like conspiracies, allegations of the paranormal,
and so on. Lazar speaks to Art Bell and in
(23:48):
the interest of full disclosure. Coast to Coast a M
is part of the larger I Heart network and they
have some podcasts on the network which Paul Mission Contry
role and I work on so and I remember hearing
this interview. Um, Lazar is a hit. His story resonates
(24:11):
with the audience, and so from the ninety nineties through
the early two thousand's, Bob Lazar becomes a recurring guest
on Coast to Coast. He also starts traveling to UFO
meetups and conventions, where he speaks about his story. In
the meantime, while all this is happening, George Knapp uh
(24:33):
the re border who originally interviews Lazar. George Knapp becomes
a recurring voice on Coast to Coast and then he
becomes a guest host. He also starts producing and appearing
in UFO documentaries. So that's the background that has all proven.
Now let's get to you know, let's get to the chicken.
(24:56):
Let's get to the red meat. What did Bob Lazar
specifically claim and what does he claim today? We went
directly to the source to find out. Yeah, that's right.
So Lazar claims back in the day when he was
working and doing this stuff, he was flown from Las
Vegas and this place called McCarron Airport about a d
(25:16):
twenty five miles north to area fifty one where the
testing facility facilities are where Los Alamos is, and when
he's there, he says he didn't see one. He says
he saw nine of these you know, interstellar spacecraft, these
extra terrestrial craft that were housed in this specific facility
(25:37):
called S four we mentioned earlier, and he has stated
that he believes, like Bob Lazar believes this is his
own belief that for a decade since before he was there,
So I guess nineteen late nineteen seventies, these craft had
been sitting in there, and they had been attempted to
be reverse engineered by multiple people, by scientists, by contractors
(25:58):
that are flown in to do actually what he's doing now, Yeah, yeah,
And he he will go on to call these craft
reticulate spacecraft. And he says there's interesting stuff here. This
again directly from his website, his own words. We don't
want to mischaracterize them. He says that he was briefed
(26:19):
on quote, technical information of alien interactions. There's an interesting
wrinkle because in the next sentence there's something that confused
me a little. It says, since only the technical information
was corroborated to be true during his time in the program,
he being Bob, could only assume the historic information was
(26:42):
also true. I'm a little unclear on what that means.
What is the difference between the technical and historical information.
Does it mean, for instance, that he received diagrams, blueprints,
you know, basic scientific explanations, and then also heard stories
about what had happened before he got there, and then
(27:05):
therefore took that as fact. That's like the most reasonable
assumption anyway, Leave that alone. There's juicier stuff. Oh yeah.
Bob claims that he not only was messing around with
the spacecraft, he's saying that the government was also keeping
the drivers the pilots of those spacecraft, or at least
(27:26):
a few of them for a time. Right. He says
that there were extraterrestrial creatures of some sort aliens that
were on site, and he refers to them as the kids,
and he says that's what they were referred to by
the other people working there. Yeah, which automatically for any
UFO enthusiasts conjurors, pictures of little great men, right, the
(27:50):
big eyes almost not their nose, big heads, short stature.
That's that's at least what most of our minds go to.
And Perlazar, there was an arrangement between the aliens and
the humans. The aliens would conduct their own research at
this site in their own area, and they would do
(28:13):
so in exchange for hardware, fuel, materials, and training. Yet,
at some point in the past, Lazar reveals the kids
and their human hosts beefed up. They had a conflict,
and this would result in the death of over forty
human personnel, including the scientists that the aliens were instructing
(28:36):
the extraterrestrials. The story goes ghosted. They left the scene,
and they left behind those nine spacecraft, promising they would return,
like as in like we're coming back to finish the
job or yeah, we'll see you soon unclear, you know,
asta Leavista baby. Maybe maybe something like hey, it's not you,
(29:00):
it's me. Needs some space. You know, we just killed
you know, a lot of you. But uh do We're
coming back, so we'll give you some time, you know,
think about why you made us do this. See's okay.
I don't know. We might unfairly be characterizing this relationship
as a basent, but that's again that's the story, and
(29:23):
you can see it on his website. Uh. He also
goes on and Matt, I think this was fascinating to
us back in the day. He said that he had
hands on experience working with these craft, these alien vehicles,
in particular the propulsion system. This claim is interesting because, uh,
(29:44):
unrelated to a lot of this. In an earlier interview,
Lazar claims he had invented a water powered car. I
believe there is no hard evidence of that at this time.
He also claims when he's talking about his time working
with this program, he claims that he and other colleagues
(30:06):
got this huge info dump, this UH crash course in
the secret history of the world and the Solar System. UH.
The takeaway from this now, granted, Matt, you and I
and NOL have not ourselves been subject to these debriefings,
(30:27):
are party to them, but the takeaway is that for
the last ten thousand years, again according to Bob, these
extraterrestrials have been externally correcting human evolution, and for the
last fifteen years, at the time you received this briefing,
they engaged in a direct technology exchange with the human
(30:49):
scientists at the S four facility. The technology exchange part
is pretty interesting because you have to wonder what kind
of technology could humans have that aliens would be interested in. Seriously,
a microwave, Let's see what eighty nine or I guess
(31:09):
sevent nine. Pizza that's it, dude, Pizza casity is certain
types of sandwich sauce, that's it. That's it. Kept Sayson No,
because you if if these vehicles can travel to Earth
(31:30):
through the vast distances, especially from Reticuli, which is a
binary star system a far far away. If you could
get here through with those you know, vehicles, or even
a larger vehicle, much larger vehicle, taking a bunch of
these tiny ones across that vast distance of space and time.
Then Yet, no technology that we've got on this planet
(31:52):
is going to be awesome unless you're talking about culture
as a technology. Music. Maybe we had some, really, I mean,
we did have some pretty awesome music at that time
that came out of the sixties. M hmmm, I don't know,
I don't know. Maybe that's what it was. It was
an exchange of incredible technology that became these smartphones that
(32:14):
we all have right now. Uh, that's what we got,
and they got led Zeppelin. Oh yeah, no, okay, wait no,
that's the answer. Yeah, so uh yeah. Also one one
thing to say, the quiet part out loud. Uh. One
thing that's not often acknowledged in these conversations is that, yes,
(32:37):
technology suppression is real. Uh. It's maybe not as insidious
as it's often characterized, but it is true that there
is technology well ahead of the curve in various fields
that the public doesn't have access to yet. Uh. Smartphones
were around before the public knew they were around, so
(32:59):
that but that part is true. And that's again it's
not necessarily sinister. It's just R and D can take
a while, you know. Uh. But that doesn't prove what
Bob Lazar is saying. He also goes on to outline
and this is folks, this is literally the homepage of
the website. He goes on to outline the purported mechanics
(33:23):
of these craft because again he says, he focused on
working with the propulsion system and he claims the power
source is element one fifteen. This, this is not the
same thing as the element one fifteen on the Human
periodic Table. Our civilization knows element one fifteen as muscovium. Uh.
(33:46):
This was first created in two thousand three, uh, and
it was added to the periodic table in So what
that means is at the time that Bob Aar was
talking about this as a power source, element fifteen was
not official on the human periodic Table. I mean, that's
(34:10):
that's intense, right, it would be. But again, the element
one fifteen he's talking about is not the element one
fifteen we're talking about. He's talking about something completely different. Yeah,
oh yeah, there's another thing that Bob goes into when
it comes to the tech things like when at least
(34:30):
how these aircraft function, the spacecraft, and he talks about
things like gravity amplifiers as a way to move into
like make the ships do the kinds of movement that
has allegedly been observed by like Navy pilots and stuff
and some of the videos that we've seen in recent years. Um,
(34:52):
there's what it is, some process to move craft inside
and outside of Earth's atmosphere. So like if you imagine
and turing the atmosphere of a planet, like diving into
an ocean or something, right from the air to the ocean,
it's like from space into the atmosphere. Um, and you've
you can hear Bob make these claims. You can see
it written in several places. So this is I mean,
(35:16):
that's really what he claimed. Yeah, yeah, the the idea
of the science behind trans medium propulsion, Yes, exactly. Uh,
this is a lot to take it, you know. And
at this point, again to be objective, we have to
note no other scientists, nor any official governmental or military
organization has directly corroborated these specific claims, at least not publicly.
(35:42):
If anyone had, again, this would immediately become the biggest
story in human history. For several years after he went public,
Lazarre functioned in a kind of way for liminal space.
He was a very all known character in ufology circles,
(36:04):
but you probably wouldn't have known much about him unless
you were already plugged into that sphere and that community. Right,
if you are a UFO enthusiasts during this time, someone
says Bob Lazar, and you immediately have an opinion. If
you are not someone who looks into the world of
UFOs and the allegations of that phenomenon, then Bob Lazar
(36:28):
is just a name to you. But this all changes
a few years back. There is a renaissance of the
case of Bob Lazar, and it is I would say
it is primarily due to uh documentary made by our
pal and recurring guests on our show, Jeremy Corbell. Oh yes,
(36:49):
it's you can watch it right now. It's titled Bob
Lazar Colin Area One and Flying Saucers. It was put
out and then there are a lot of appearances like
we like we mentioned at the top of this episode
on Rogan in other places where Bob and Jeremy talked
openly about the claims that Bob has made and about
(37:12):
the process of making this documentary and like Jeremy attempting
to you know, be as objective as he can while
also investigating Bob, like investing in Bob and and just
letting Bob tell the story. Yeah, yeah, and Uh. Jeremy
Corbell also works closely with George Knapp, who conducted that
original interview in so this documentary which you can see
(37:38):
and in multiple online platforms, this documentary introduces a new
global audience to the case of Bob Lazart and I
I really like the way you describe you describe it
in that, but it's it's something you should check out
yourself and get back to us or get back to
Jeremy with four feedback. Uh. Leads a lot of people,
(38:02):
some skeptics, some with their own pre existing ideas about
U A P or UFOs to weigh in with their
own interpretations. As you can imagine, many people found this
documentary for one reason or another controversial, and they didn't
all agree in what they saw as controversial about this.
(38:23):
So we leave it to you to let us know
what you think in that regard. But right now, We're
going to take a break for a word from our sponsors,
and we'll come back and ask one of the bigger questions,
what can we prove we returned. Uh, this is a
(38:46):
little bit of deep water. We're going to be objective here,
as we always say, as Matt and Nolan I are
always pointing out, you have to look at the source.
That's why we're giving you information directly from Bob Lazar's website.
And we also want to avoid character assassination, unearned smearing
(39:06):
of character, especially if it's unrelated to the claims we uh,
we just explored. But there is some stuff that is
frankly baggage for Lazar. It's not related necessarily to his
claims regarding extraterrestrials. No, but it what it what it
(39:28):
does is it's it's it's like stuff that would come
up on a report about you if you were applying
for a lease, right or a new loan, Like this
is stuff that would show up in a in a report.
So we we do kind of have to I think
we do have to talk about it. Yeah, I agree,
I agree with you. Man Um. All right, So first things, First,
(39:51):
institutions that he has said he worked with or studied
at either can't confirm his specific claim or they have
no record of him being there. We can we can
say conclusively he did attend Pierce Junior College, but after that,
with the cal Tech and the m I T degrees,
(40:13):
there simply appears to be no record. Second, he was
on the wrong side of the law a few times.
Once in Bob Lazar was arrested for allegedly aiding and
abetting a prostitution ring. Those charges were later reduced to
something called felony pandering. He pled guilty and got a
(40:38):
hundred and fifty hours of community service. So we never
did hard time or anything like that. But I have
no idea. I don't want to make light of it. Um.
But yeah, it's got this implication that there's just regular pandering,
(40:59):
for there's misdemeanor pandering. I've got an article that says,
what is pandering and why is it a crime in Georgia? Okay,
r I p your search history, but go on that's
doing this. It's from the Family Law and Criminal Defense
Attorneys of Lankford and more Law. It says the definition
(41:20):
of pandering is to gratify or indulge, and usually someone
is pandering when they are simply saying what they think
you want them to say. Hold on, huh, what we
might have to put a pin in this one. It's
listened as a sexual offense, says under Georgia Criminal Code
(41:41):
pandering by compulsion by dress or coercion causing a person
to perform an active prostitution. Okay, all right, that's a
little more. The criminal connection is a little more clier there. Okay, okay, alright,
so we've got that figured out. It was hurting me. Yeah, no, no,
we did the right thing. And again, Mike condolence says,
(42:03):
to your search history. So there there is a story
in a narrative regarding this event. In Supporters of Lazarre
will claim that this was all an attempt to smear
his character, to call into question his reliability. Still, the
(42:30):
case is officially on the books, and that's not even
the big incident. Because third, there's the government rate. Well
there are two government rates. Then these also really happened. Yeah, well,
we we talked about the story. We looked at its
website and the contents and the things you can buy,
and you can imagine that the government might have taken
(42:51):
issue with old United Nuclear scientific a couple of times.
Remember this is this is a store that sells things
like yell okay, like the thing it was held up.
Remember that one time yellow literal amounts it's funny size
yellow cake. It's like the Halloween candy version of yellow cake. Yes. Um,
(43:16):
So the store operated, I guess operates at least at
the time when there was a raid, it was operating
out of New Mexico, UM and then it changed to
operate out of Michigan, and at least according to our
records been we believe it's run out of Oregon right now.
In en they announced moving to Oregon. UH. In two
(43:38):
thousand three, a rate occurred. The Consumer Product and Safety
Commission executed a raid, which I was not aware they
would do, because he had sold some chemicals that were
typically used in the manufacture of illegal fireworks, and he
(44:00):
sold these Two federal agents. Lazar, in an interview, said
that during the raid he heard some fishy stuff because
the swat team said, and this is a quote, this
is total b s. It's nothing like they told us
in the briefing. So, according to federal court records associated
(44:23):
with this raid. A few years later, in two thousand six,
Lazar officially pleads guilty to violating the Federal Hazardous Substances Act,
and this is you know, this is not like murdering someone.
He gets a seven thousand five dollar fine and is
sentenced to three years federal probation, which is not a
(44:44):
walk in the park, but it's better than incarceration. Well,
it's not a walk in the park. But I have
to say I kind of on the side of the
Consumer Product and Safety Commission a little bit here, just
after looking at the site and what what it's offering
in I feel like at least somebody needs to be
keeping a close eye on those chemicals and substances that
(45:05):
are on sale. Um. But you know, a raid keeping
an eye on things and rating a facility. Those are
two very different things, right, Yeah, And it's not really uh,
you know, a question of morality at that point. It's
that's a pretty clear law, right unless again, you believe
this is part of a cover up or a smear campaign,
(45:25):
or you believe that the FEDS were after is something different.
In t seventeen, United Nuclear is rated again by local
police in Michigan. I believe in coordination with the FBI,
uh Lazar and his advocates. I think this was very suspicious,
(45:45):
both in the timing and in the official explanation the
Lazar and Jeremy has said this to Jeremy Corbell has
also said things along this line. Lazar maintained that the
FBI was attempting to recover samples of something that Lazar
(46:07):
may or may not have taken from Area fifty one.
That would be element one fifteen, again not muscovium. The
idea is, or the theory, is that Lazar was under
government surveillance and has been for quite a while, and
that this raid was the latest in a decades long
(46:28):
harassment campaign, character assassination campaign against Lazar by the US government.
And and here, Matt, I think we can we can
refer to an excellent piece about this by a journalist
named Tim McMillan writing for Vice. Tim went and obtained
(46:49):
the official records of the raid, and he spoke with
law enforcement all who would speak with him. And from
those records that this journalist finds it isn't seen that
the raid had much to do with aliens. But it
makes for a strange story all its own. Again, we
see competing narratives. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't seem to have
(47:11):
to do with aliens, but it does seem to have
to do with technology that Bob claims came from aliens, right,
because it, like you said, it goes back to that
element one fifteen, which Bob claims this element, when you
apply radiation to it or expose it to radiation, this
element creates its own gravitational field, which would be mind
(47:32):
blowing and incredible if true. Uh. And if true, the
FEDS and other government agencies would probably want to have
their hands on it, because, as we've talked in the past,
the government is very much compartmentalized. There's not great communication
between departments often and between intelligence agencies and you know,
(47:53):
d O J and and all kinds of things like that.
I'm not saying it isn't great at times when when
the communications need to be fully on, but often there's
a bit of working in the dark when it comes
to what what other agencies are doing. True, one hand
may not know the actions of the other hand. That's
(48:15):
that's simply a fact. That's a really good point too. Um. Yeah,
So again, this idea, this idea that the raid may
have an ulterior motive, especially at second rate, it all
goes back to this purported element one fifteen, and Lazar
(48:38):
will be um he has some interesting things to say
about this. Uh. He did once describe this element as
quote a super heavy unique element. When it's exposed to radiation,
it produces its own gravitational field, its own anti gravitational field,
and that's what's used to lift and propel the draft.
(49:01):
It is suggested, but not explicitly stated, that when Lazar
left employment he stole some amount of this substance, and
that he may have it today. If you look at
the philip we're saying official a lot in here, but
if you look at the confirmed element one fifteen, good
(49:21):
old muscovium, you see that it's it's probably a very
difficult thing to store. It has a half life of
a little more than half a second point six five
of a second. So it's like once you actually created,
that thing decays and and is no longer element With fifteen,
I mean you think green beans and bananas go bad quickly.
(49:44):
They got nothing on muscovium U. So like, don't buy
that unless you're cooking it that night. It's the case
that came up. But but yeah, so the thinking is
that the government wants this stuff back and that's why
law enforcement rated Lazar's business, But the official records seemed
(50:06):
to indicate that instead this raid was in connection with
a homicide. So we've got reports that come from Michigan
State Police Sergeant Detective Thomas, and according to these reports,
there was a death that occurred in connection with the
United Nuclear in t like the end of as a
(50:29):
person named Janelle Struzel s t r u z L
and Struzel was at least cording this report poisoned died
of thallium toxicity. And thallium is one of these things
that United Nuclear probably may we are unsure had its
hands on or had available right, thallium sulfate. It's a colorless, odorless,
(50:53):
tasteless substance and it is sometimes referred to as the
quote poisoner's poison because of how toxic it is and
how difficult it is to detect once it's been deployed. Yeah. Yeah,
So the idea is that where the belief was that
Janelle Struzel's husband, a romantic partner, had poisoned her with
(51:17):
thallium sulfate, and Lazar's company sells valium, so the police
were there to learn more about who he may have
sold this material too. It's important to note Lazar was
not and has never been listed as a suspect in
this in this homicide at all. They just wanted to see,
(51:41):
at least from their side, they wanted to see if
they could connect the dots a chain of command for
this poison or substance used as such. And Lazar says
sometime in March, a woman had provided him with an
element collection from her brother who had past and he
said that he took possession of this and he agreed
(52:03):
to sell it on his website. According to the official
reports and to Lazar himself, thallium was one of the
elements in that collection, and he says, thallium is something
we never carried before. It was donated to us by
the family of an element collector that died. So now
we've had now we have this collection of stuff basically
(52:25):
we would we would not ordinarily carry. Right. So he
is fully cooperating with law enforcement. By the way, the
entire time, he's fully compliant. He's not trying to you know,
He's not like the viral clips on YouTube of someone
saying by being detained, being detained bro everything they asked
(52:47):
for he gave it to him. Uh. In May later
that year, Jeremy Corbelle was speaking with a couple of
news outlets, as particularly a British outlet called Express, and
he said, said, there's a quote he said, we believe
the official intent of the raid was a cover story,
and that they were looking for a piece of the
fuel source for the extraterrestrial craft Lazar once worked on
(53:11):
for the United States government at area. So then we see,
you know, we see the other side. We see these
allegations that maybe, surprise, surprise, the government is and being
completely honest about their intentions. Uh. They Lazar and corbell
both say this was part of a sustained surveillance campaign. Uh.
(53:34):
And in the documentary that Matt you you mentioned just
a bit ago, you can see them discuss the possibility
of Lazar having possession of something like this, and the
police search occurred very shortly after this conversation, according to
Bob and Jeremy, right, yeah, And it's really weird. In
(53:57):
the documentary, at least, Jeremy and Bob report that the
the the investigators, the people actually came to to raid
the facility were they were able to again, according to
these two guys. They were able to repeat back much
of the same conversation that Jeremy and Bob were having
(54:17):
where they were discussing this element one fifteen in private, right,
So it says though there was some kind of ongoing
investigation into either Bob or Jeremy or both of them,
right right exactly, and something way beyond the idea that
your your phone might listen to you and then target
Facebook at or something like that or I don't know,
(54:39):
an Instagram add whatever whatever has the most sad. So
active surveillance is what they're talking about. And that's not
out of the realm of possibility. That is something that
the US government can has and can do, has doing
and is doing right now as we record. So everybody say, hey,
does it there in this one? Yeah, Steve our hapless
(55:02):
a s a intern over there at the Puzzle Palace
Hope College is going well, man, and thanks for tuning
in as always, even though it's your job. So it
looks like, according to the statements from the Michigan Police,
they had already gotten search warrants a day before Jeremy
(55:24):
and Bob are having this conversation. So we see these
two competing narratives, the idea that the FEDS were tracking
down thallium as it might have been connected to a homicide,
and the idea that the raids official purpose was a
cover up to obtain something much more unusual. As we said,
Lazarre fully cooperates. Uh, he doesn't believe the official reasoning
(55:45):
about thallium, but he says, you know, anything they asked
for he gave them, he complied. He also noted that
it seemed the FEDS were much more interested in getting
access to his businesses can puters rather than finding thallium. Uh.
There is there is a thing though, and this is interesting.
(56:08):
I don't think this hard proof. Uh. Someone goes on
Reddit shortly after and they say that they work at
United in Nuclear and that the raid was due to
this case of thallium poisoning and so so at least
one person claiming to be an employee claims that the
(56:30):
official story is legit. And this is you know, ah,
where do we go from here? Well, well, the thing is, like,
you have to decide what you're gonna believe here, Right,
do you believe the story coming from Bob? Do you
believe the story coming from the official reports on the investigation.
The uh, the story about thallium is a legitimate reason
(56:53):
there was a death, a murder, right, homicide that needs
to be investigated where there they need to investigate the
origin of the murder weapon, which was a poison, right
or or you believe that you will. In order to
believe Bob's story about the reason the raid occurred, you
have to believe that Bob worked at this secret facility
(57:16):
S four right near Area one, that he worked on
extraterrestrial craft, that extra terrestrial craft was there, that he
was able to take some of the element that causes
that craft to be able to fly and was hiding
it at his facility, and the government wanted that element.
(57:36):
So there's a lot that you have to believe in
order to believe that statement. Right. In the other instance,
you all you have to do is believe that someone
writing a report about an FBI raid and a murder
told the truth. So it's just it's a tough it's
a tough thing to not be skeptical about. I think, yeah, no,
that's a very good point, and we'll put uh. The
(57:59):
other thing is government raids always seem suspicious, they're expensive,
The FEDS don't do them for frenzies necessarily. Uh. It's
also strange that the thing that keeps getting me is
that if Bob Lazar and this is not a ding
on the character of the person at all, But the
(58:20):
question is, if these claims are wholly or even partially true,
then how is this guy still out and about walking,
speaking public, living a day to day life of as
a civilian. Uh. Lazarre seems to be pretty careful about
some things. He said that if he did have a
sample of element one fifteen, he would absolutely not reveal it,
(58:45):
despite knowing this would confirm his story and also absolutely
rock the foundations of modern chemistry. So I don't understand
that last bit. I don't. Well, maybe it's a worry
about physical danger, you know, from their side, if we're
assuming that perspective. Uh, look, if it wasn't clear, folks,
(59:06):
and we're going a little long here. Skeptics hate this guy. Uh,
they object to him. You can find no, uh no
shortage of investigations that call into questions some of these claims.
Some ufologists like Stanton Friedman, who he mentioned earlier, also
don't particularly cotton to him, and a lot of experts
(59:28):
in various stem fields have dismissed his claims and explanations
as pseudo science, but again there are some seemingly true
parts of the story. He did work for that contractor.
He also UH and props to Jeremy Corbel here uh
Lazar describes as security device employed at Area fifty one
(59:49):
when he supposedly worked there, and it was a hand
scanner that would measure the length bone length and use
that to confirm someone's I identity. Jeremy did find evidence
for photographic evidence that a device like this was being
used during the late nineteen eighties to secure, you know,
(01:00:12):
top secret facilities. But again on the other side, skeptics
will point out that this device, which is called the
Identimat two thousand, thousand thousand, was public knowledge by the
early to mid nineteen seventies. That part is also true.
The Identimat three thousand is just me and I go, yep,
it's you. Yeah, we've got top security here and stuff
(01:00:35):
they don't want you to know. So also we have
to note that again Lazarre came forward before Area fifty
one officially existed. UH this I don't think it was
until like two thousand thirteen ors, So that can declassify.
CIA documents confirmed the existence and location in the place.
(01:00:57):
But again, as we said at the top, this is
just scrap seen the surface. We welcome you to the
deja vu moments we have experienced every time we're talking
about Bob Lazar, and we may need to return to
the case in the future, definitely. I would just point
out that Google Maps, at least in my experience, unearthed
area fifty one much earlier, which is such a surreal
(01:01:21):
thing because you know, you work for Uncle Sam and
you're supposed to pretend it doesn't exist, even if even
if you have like relatives or kids or your kids
friends who are coming up to you with a print
out of a Google map. You know, uncle Jim, what's this?
There's nothing there in the desert. It's just a lake
(01:01:46):
bed by men in black like not working. Okay, yeah,
you don't what that. That's a piece of paper, that's
what that is. Who wants pizza? So just change the subject, right,
That's pretty easy with kids. This this is the thing.
We're left with questions now. One, if the story is true, logically,
(01:02:08):
why is Bob blaz Are being allowed to live an
ordinary day to day life. His supporters will say that
he is not living in an ordinary life. He is
intensely surveiled at all times. Right, That's that's one of
the claims. But then if the story is untrue, why
is it garnered so much attention? Is it just because
(01:02:29):
people like the story, they like the X files of it. Um,
it's a cool story no matter what, whether it's true
or not true. And and that's the thing. It goes
back to the truth. I mean, most importantly, I think
you and I can agree, and hopefully you listening at home,
it seems like someone is not telling the truth. Whether
(01:02:51):
that's the FEDS or whether that's Bob Lazar himself. There's
clearly something they don't want you to know. But what
is that exactly depends on who you ask. So now
we're asking you, fellow conspiracy realist, what do you think?
Can you explain it to us? Can you send us
element please? Please? There are there are so many books
(01:03:14):
about Bob Lazar's life and story that you can read
right now if you're into it, by the way, and
we highly recommend you do that and then write to us,
find us on social media, call us whatever you want
to do, and tell us about that. Also, before you
even contact us. Consider buying our book Stuff they Don't
want you to know. It's coming out in October. You
(01:03:35):
can preorder it right now. And we talk about UFOs
extensively U A P and the phenomena in that book.
So if you're interested in this topic, I highly recommend
you purchase Stuff they Don't want you to know, written
by Ben Bullen and Matt Frederick and Noel Brown and
association with UH case A DA Production and UH, you know,
(01:03:59):
I really like the way Noel put it. We're talking
about this earlier, he said, this could get annoying if
we're talking about this too much, uh, even though our
lives are at stake. Noel pointed out that this is
kind of like UH, public radio Pledge drive rules, right,
stop talking about it as soon as UH and if
(01:04:22):
you want to UH, if you want to talk with
us about something else, or if you want to talk
with us about the book. A lot of people won
the sweepstakes are getting their signed posters now. Thank you
for playing along, folks, Congratulations on the scribbles that are
all of our signatures, and big, big thanks as always
(01:04:43):
to Nick Turbo Benson. Please check out his art. He's amazing.
We're very lucky to work with him. But if you
want to talk about anything and you don't sip the
social meds, you can give us a phone call right now.
Be careful. Sometimes the ABYSS calls back. Yes, it often does.
(01:05:04):
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(01:05:24):
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(01:05:50):
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From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is not joining
us today, but he will be returning shortly. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Paul Mission controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you. You
are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't
want you to know? Now, Matt, you and I and
(00:47):
planning this episode, we I think each individually experienced a
series of deja vu moments. Would you agree? Yes, this
is a topic that fells as though we've done four
episodes on it because of how often we've spoken about
this and how deep our personal research has gone into
(01:09):
this subject and person. Yet we do have some personal
skin in the game here on a number of fronts
to be completely transparent. Uh, but you know, let's start here.
It's true. Governments do cover things up, governments do spin
alternate narratives, and that you don't have to be uh,
(01:32):
A died in the world true believer or a skeptic
to accept that as fact, because like gravity, it's real.
At least governments do attempts right attempt to try to
cover up some stuff. Uh, and it happens constantly. In
today's episode, we are exploring the story of a controversial man,
(01:55):
a figure who claims he has firsthand knowledge of a
cover up so asked, so sophisticated, and so incredible that
even to speak about it openly may put people in
physical danger. His name Bob Lazar. Here are the facts,
and again, this deja vu is going to be hitting
(02:16):
me the entire time we're talking about this. We're just
going to scratch the surface. This is kind of an
introduction to the front door of the rabbit Hole, and
we want to hear from you. At the end, Matt,
riddle me this. Who is Bob Lazar. Bob Lazar is
this subject of Joe Rogan interview that I think is
(02:38):
one of the top episodes that's ever come out, along
with our friend Jeremy Corbell. So if you know about him,
it is likely that perhaps you only know about Bob
Lazar because of that interview, because of the popularity of
that show. But Bob Lazar, it's a real person, a
human being, just like you and me and Ben Okay,
(03:02):
So moments are Bobbazar's full name is Robert Scott Lazar.
He was born January in nineteen fifty nine, just a
couple of years older than my parents. Um. He is
in Florida where he was born. He had some parents,
Phyllis and Albert. He went to junior college at this
(03:22):
place called the Pierce Junior College in Los Angeles, and
according to Bob, like to his own words, he has
a master's in physics from m I T. Perhaps the
most prestigious technology focused school on the planet. He also,
according to his own words, has a master's in electronic
technology from cal Tech, another rather prestigious university. Yeah. And
(03:48):
note here, folks, how how we're framing that Matt Matt saying,
we know he went to Pierce Junior College. Uh and
we know that he says he has those uh degrees
from m I T and cal Tech. Here's the thing
you're going to deal with. Any time you look into
(04:09):
the case of Bob Lazar, you're gonna find that details
can get a bit murky. Uh So right now, for now,
we're going to stick with what can be universally inarguably
proven matters of acknowledged fact. It is true. It is
a fact that in Bob Lazar was working for a
(04:29):
company that was a contractor providing support staff for a
place called Los Alamos Mason Physics Facility. It's part of
the Los Alamos National Laboratory. And you know, as you
can tell from the name, it's located in Los Alamos,
New Mexico. It's a real place. It is not housed
(04:52):
in Area fifty one, which we'll get to, but is
instead in a place called Technical Area fifty three, which
is also aware of the creepy name. So close to,
so close, so close. When it was built, it was
the world's most powerful linear accelerator. So think of CERN
(05:16):
something like CERN, but as a straight line rather than
a loop. And this is a big deal. This is
a good science. It's legitimate. It opened in June of
nine two, so when Bob joins up in two, this
facility is about ten years old. They've been at it
for a while. It's not their first rodeo. No, it's
(05:37):
not just quickly, let's just talk about particle accelerators. Because
at that time, in good God and in the seventies
and eighties, particle accelerators. That's some of the peak science
that's occurring, right at least when when you're speaking about
the science of the very small science of the sub
atomic and trying to understand what does an adam break
(05:59):
down into. That's intense, cutting edge stuff. So it shouldn't.
I mean we don't. I don't know exactly what his
contract work was through that contractor for that facility doing
that work, but in order to be working there at
that facility, you do have to know what you're doing
if you're actually involved in the science. Yeah, no chumps
(06:20):
in the squad. As as we say here that that
applies at an even more extreme level when you get
to the rarefied air of this sort of science. And
I love the point you're making that because this seems
like pretty awesome work, right, It's it's also it's it's
bleeding edge science at this time. And it's also the
(06:42):
kind of experimentation that doesn't seem fraught with moral quandary. Right,
we're just learning more about the universe that we're not,
you know, experimenting on animals or people, which the US
has done before. Unfortunately, not every thing is trumpets and
angel farts. For our pal Bob. A few years later
(07:06):
in you see public records of a bankruptcy filing in
Las Vegas and during that time. Uh. In those descriptions,
Lazar list his occupation as a self employed film processor.
So at some point he parts ways with Los Alamos uh,
(07:30):
and then he starts his own business company that is
around today called United Nuclear Scientific Supplies. United Nuclear Scientific
Supplies or United Nuclear for short. Is like it's an
online site. It's a it's a mail order thing. You
can go to that website right now and you can
(07:52):
order all kinds of interesting stuff. We are pulling it
up right now just so you and and everybody listening
along can take a look. Uh. The first thing you
see on the website, it's definitely like a more old
school online store. The first thing you see is a
(08:12):
list of miscellaneous nuclear items. Uh, Matt, this is where
we get to play with our proxies and see if
you and I are in different search bubbles. Oh well,
it checked my It checked my browser before it allowed
me in. So that's interesting. The same thing. But you
and I, You and I's uh maybe not the normal browsers.
(08:35):
Well I do, hey man, I'm on safari right now,
I'll tell you. I'm on Safari and I'm seeing a
Geiger counter test card a bunch of items that are
created to be They appear to be radioactive marbles and
Fiesta wear. But I'm also seeing thorium nitrate on sale,
which is interesting. Wait, I'm seeing uranium high purity uranium
(09:00):
sample for collectors in display. The purity is ninety eight
and it's only fifty bucks. Yeah, but it's not a
lot of it. You know why am I trying to
make it sound more reasonable? Yeah, uranium acetate, uranium dioxide,
uranium metal, three gram sample, all the hits. You know,
(09:22):
they've got yellow cake on this sucker, uranium peroxide for
only fifteen bucks. Yeah, again, it's not a ton of it.
Though you're not ordering ms. Maybe there's a price break.
I don't know. Maybe you could write and ask if
there's a price break. But as we'll see, with good reason,
Lazar and the staff of United Nuclear might be a
(09:44):
little suspicious of someone saying, hey, I saw the yellow cake.
Can we move weight on this? You know, how how
much is the whole cake? I'm attempting to purchase twenty
grams of yellow cake right now? Let's see, uh says
new customers can create an account. I wonder if you
(10:05):
have to put in some kind of associated you know,
university or company information, or you could just as a
regular old person buy yellow cake. This is scary. I
don't like this. I'm leaving. Well, you can also buy mugs,
you know, like it's not you know, it's it's not
all science get stuff. But yeah, you can buy gallium.
(10:28):
You can get some cool stuff like liquid metal alloy,
which is gallium indium in ten. That's neat. You know,
it looks very t two thousand, but it's not as
dangerous for you as mercury um, which isn't sane much anyway.
That part we can prove. Yeah, that part we can prove.
United Nuclear Scientific Supplies is a real thing. It's around today.
(10:51):
They send a bunch of scientific equipment, chemical substances to students,
to instructors, to scientists, of course, and interestingly enough, also
to law enforcement professionals. I imagine a lot of the
law enforcement connection or business comes from things like radiation
(11:13):
detection kits of some sort. There's nothing wrong with this
at all. By the way, this is all legal, and
a lot of people in the audience today will rightly say, well,
starting your own business, guys, that's something people call the
American dream or part of it. Yeah, once you can,
you know, buy a house from under some headge fund,
(11:37):
you can start your own company. That's the next step, right.
But not for nothing do we say Bob Lazar is
considered pretty controversial. If you've heard of him, odds are
that you have not heard about You've not heard about
him as the guy who will sell you shards of uranium.
(11:58):
We're going to get to the big controversies and the
reasons you've heard this name in the past, but before
we do, let's look at some of the smaller controversies.
So Matt, earlier we talked about how Lazar claims to
have attended M I T and Cal TAP in a
couple of different times in the past. He stated this,
(12:18):
those institutions have no official record of his attendance, and this,
like already, we're seeing the narratives start to diverge. Because
if you are a hardcore supporter of Lazar and you
believe the entirety of his claims, then you won't be
(12:41):
surprised that people who agree with you say a shadowy
government force or shadowy institutions some sort has erased his records.
Just to be clear, there are ufologists who do not
agree with Lazar, and one of them is a guy
named Stanton free Hman. Stanton Friedman did some digging, did
(13:03):
some due diligence, and concluded that it was incredibly unlikely
that someone or some force could have erased the entirety
of someone's attendance at an institution, at least during this time.
I'm sure it was much easier back during you know,
the eighteen hundreds or something. Well, especially to get a
(13:24):
master's degree. Right. There are a lot of people at
even the most prestigious colleges and universities getting or on
track to get a bachelor's degree, right, And then there
are many fewer attempting to get a master's degree, and
then way many fewer attempting to get a doctorate. Right.
So it's just if as you whittle those down, it's
(13:45):
less and less likely that one of those upper echelon
tiers can be completely expunged. Right. Yeah, again, rarefied Air,
it's difficult to get there, as any of our fellow
listeners with a master's degree or pat is well aware.
Uh So, another thing. Lazarre has described himself as working
(14:07):
as a physicist during his time at Los Alamos, and
there are people who dispute that as well. One notable
person would be Donald R. Prothero. Again, it seems that
Lazar really did work at this site, but per Prothero,
his position as a technician for a contractor means that
(14:32):
he did not directly work for Los Alamos, which means
that the lab would not reasonably have a record of him.
And this has led to confusion in the press. If
you go through any of the any of the usual
outlets over the past few years, of past few decades, actually,
(14:52):
you will see some calling him like the Smithsonian will
call him a self proclaimed physicist, and other other outlets
will simply refer to him as a physicist. So already
you know there's some murky, shaky stuff. But the the
million dollar question, the element one fifteen question here is
(15:15):
why are we talking about him now? Well it all
goes back to Jeremy Corbel. Dude, I don't know how
and why, but Jeremy has found himself right at the
center of this story. And another guy that we're about
to bring up, George Knapp, who who was a broadcaster
in Las Vegas. He has been for a long time.
(15:37):
He put out a report in May of nineteen eighty nine.
It was a satellite link coming out of lv Nevada.
And boy was this a strange report. Oh yeah, it
has all the makings of a wonderful modern folklore. A
physicist self proclaimed for Otherwise halls George Knapp and speaks
(16:02):
to him using a pseudonym, disguising his true identity, and
he says that there are nine alien disc Yes, folks,
alien is an extraterrestrial vehicles, nine alien vehicles held near
Groom Lake by a small faction of the US government
(16:23):
that functions autonomously. This caller uses the name Dennis, and
later the story goes the public discovers that Dennis is
again just the pseudonym, and Dennis is actually the name
of Bob Lazar's old boss at the base. A few
(16:45):
weeks later, Pop Blazar goes on camera and he goes public.
He uses his real name and as Coast to Coast
a m puts it. He has been the subject of
worldwide curiosities, reculation and controversy ever since. Why well, you're
(17:05):
gonna pause for word from our sponsors and then we'll
tell you here's where it gets crazy. Then. I can't
believe bab Lazzar used the dentist system so early ahead
of his time, for sure. Yeah, the first known case,
(17:29):
uh describe energize, uh numinate. I'm trying to come up
with a non Reynolds dentnist system. Yeah, he did use
the dentist pseudonym. That part is true and clearly the
inspiration for Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Uh. He also in
(17:51):
his report is what puts Area fifty one on the
map of pop culture. I'm keep in mind at this
time to be absolutely are the US government has not
officially confirmed anything about Groom Lake or Area fifty one,
and they will not for several decades. Actually. Uh, this
(18:13):
interview with George Knapp is the kind of stuff that
would absolutely galvanize anybody who's a fan of the X Files,
anybody like Like, if you ever see this on YouTube
clip or you check out video versions of our show,
you'll know that Matt Nolan I are huge, huge fans
(18:35):
of the X Files. In fact, Matt regularly records with
a kick ass poster of the X Files in every shot.
Just Scully's eye looking red at you and molders never
looking away. Yeah. Now we're huge fans, and no, I
just have to hit that point one more time. They
(18:56):
already said been Area fifty one wasn't known thing. It
was known in maybe a few circles or rumors of it,
but it wasn't talked about like like, this is a
big deal to have somebody coming forward talking about this
place that is secret, where there are government experiments and
(19:16):
allegedly flying saucers, and and part of that is incontrovertibly true.
There is an Area fifty one. There is a Groom
Lake right, there are uh classified government projects and they
definitely were over the years. So he goes a little
more specific and says he's worked at a top secret
(19:38):
military base called S four near Papus Lake and that
his job there is to reverse engineer crashed extraterrestrial vehicles.
If his claims held up under scrutiny, if they could
be conclusively proven, this would be an unprecedented did moment
(20:00):
in history. This would be proof that there is intelligent
life beyond the confines of Earth or this dimension, or
however you want to put it. There's really no way
to articulate how big this news would be, dude. I mean,
we're talking about taking apart an extraterrestrial vehicle in order
(20:23):
to understand how the tech works, so that the United
States government or some contractor of the government could build
things that would run on that same technology. If that
were happening, right, actually happening and successfully, then the US
military would potentially be unstoppable, which it already you know,
(20:47):
is the most dangerous advanced military on earth that we
know of. Uh. This, so this gives a lot of
questions to people, right, even folks who consider themselves very
much skeptical, they're hearing this or they're watching this broadcast
and they're thinking, huh, what is out there? Exactly right,
(21:10):
I've never been, or even more tantalizing, I have been.
I saw signs that turned me away, and those signs
looked serious and matt As you know, even even today
in the US and arete, the military is not playing around.
(21:31):
We have a couple of friends contacts, we're not going
to name them on air, but they have attempted to
go to Area fifty one and their experience was super
not good. So yeah, I do have to disagree with
you minorly been because our military is kind of playing
around uh in Taiwan today as we're recording this. I
(21:55):
mean there's some there's some messed up stuff happening on
today on day August five as we record this. We
should put that in. Yeah, we should do you know what,
we should do a future episode on military drills because
I know it's confusing to a lot of people. Right, Uh,
where are they just firing missiles to the north east
(22:19):
and south of Taiwan? That's weird? Why are they surrounding
the area and just shooting stuff? Why is calling something
to drill the equivalent of going just saying yeah, you know,
like ad just saying just playing, I'm just playing with it.
But you're right, you're right, Um, I think we should
do an episode examining the role of military drills. It's cut, Ben,
(22:42):
It's kind of like the equivalent of it, like a
dad that gets really angry or something back in the
nineteen seventies and instead of hitting anybody in the house,
just goes out of starting outside and starts beating up
the garage door or something and just showing you their force.
Just Uh. The one I heard was taking a baseball
bat and just smacking it against a tree. There you go,
(23:05):
That's exactly it. I do that all the time. So
what's a good exercise. Uh? So Lazar is now a
known entity. He's gone public, he shed the pseudonym. He's
speaking with George Knapp. He reaches an even larger audience
when he goes on one of I think our favorite
(23:27):
radio shows growing up, the legendary Coast to Coast AM.
Coast to Coast AM, if you've never checked it out
is a for many years, it has been the number
one radio show about things like conspiracies, allegations of the paranormal,
and so on. Lazar speaks to Art Bell and in
(23:48):
the interest of full disclosure. Coast to Coast a M
is part of the larger I Heart network and they
have some podcasts on the network which Paul Mission Contry
role and I work on so and I remember hearing
this interview. Um, Lazar is a hit. His story resonates
(24:11):
with the audience, and so from the ninety nineties through
the early two thousand's, Bob Lazar becomes a recurring guest
on Coast to Coast. He also starts traveling to UFO
meetups and conventions, where he speaks about his story. In
the meantime, while all this is happening, George Knapp uh
(24:33):
the re border who originally interviews Lazar. George Knapp becomes
a recurring voice on Coast to Coast and then he
becomes a guest host. He also starts producing and appearing
in UFO documentaries. So that's the background that has all proven.
Now let's get to you know, let's get to the chicken.
(24:56):
Let's get to the red meat. What did Bob Lazar
specifically claim and what does he claim today? We went
directly to the source to find out. Yeah, that's right.
So Lazar claims back in the day when he was
working and doing this stuff, he was flown from Las
Vegas and this place called McCarron Airport about a d
(25:16):
twenty five miles north to area fifty one where the
testing facility facilities are where Los Alamos is, and when
he's there, he says he didn't see one. He says
he saw nine of these you know, interstellar spacecraft, these
extra terrestrial craft that were housed in this specific facility
(25:37):
called S four we mentioned earlier, and he has stated
that he believes, like Bob Lazar believes this is his
own belief that for a decade since before he was there,
So I guess nineteen late nineteen seventies, these craft had
been sitting in there, and they had been attempted to
be reverse engineered by multiple people, by scientists, by contractors
(25:58):
that are flown in to do actually what he's doing now, Yeah, yeah,
And he he will go on to call these craft
reticulate spacecraft. And he says there's interesting stuff here. This
again directly from his website, his own words. We don't
want to mischaracterize them. He says that he was briefed
(26:19):
on quote, technical information of alien interactions. There's an interesting
wrinkle because in the next sentence there's something that confused
me a little. It says, since only the technical information
was corroborated to be true during his time in the program,
he being Bob, could only assume the historic information was
(26:42):
also true. I'm a little unclear on what that means.
What is the difference between the technical and historical information.
Does it mean, for instance, that he received diagrams, blueprints,
you know, basic scientific explanations, and then also heard stories
about what had happened before he got there, and then
(27:05):
therefore took that as fact. That's like the most reasonable
assumption anyway, Leave that alone. There's juicier stuff. Oh yeah.
Bob claims that he not only was messing around with
the spacecraft, he's saying that the government was also keeping
the drivers the pilots of those spacecraft, or at least
(27:26):
a few of them for a time. Right. He says
that there were extraterrestrial creatures of some sort aliens that
were on site, and he refers to them as the kids,
and he says that's what they were referred to by
the other people working there. Yeah, which automatically for any
UFO enthusiasts conjurors, pictures of little great men, right, the
(27:50):
big eyes almost not their nose, big heads, short stature.
That's that's at least what most of our minds go to.
And Perlazar, there was an arrangement between the aliens and
the humans. The aliens would conduct their own research at
this site in their own area, and they would do
(28:13):
so in exchange for hardware, fuel, materials, and training. Yet,
at some point in the past, Lazar reveals the kids
and their human hosts beefed up. They had a conflict,
and this would result in the death of over forty
human personnel, including the scientists that the aliens were instructing
(28:36):
the extraterrestrials. The story goes ghosted. They left the scene,
and they left behind those nine spacecraft, promising they would return,
like as in like we're coming back to finish the
job or yeah, we'll see you soon unclear, you know,
asta Leavista baby. Maybe maybe something like hey, it's not you,
(29:00):
it's me. Needs some space. You know, we just killed
you know, a lot of you. But uh do We're
coming back, so we'll give you some time, you know,
think about why you made us do this. See's okay.
I don't know. We might unfairly be characterizing this relationship
as a basent, but that's again that's the story, and
(29:23):
you can see it on his website. Uh. He also
goes on and Matt, I think this was fascinating to
us back in the day. He said that he had
hands on experience working with these craft, these alien vehicles,
in particular the propulsion system. This claim is interesting because, uh,
(29:44):
unrelated to a lot of this. In an earlier interview,
Lazar claims he had invented a water powered car. I
believe there is no hard evidence of that at this time.
He also claims when he's talking about his time working
with this program, he claims that he and other colleagues
(30:06):
got this huge info dump, this UH crash course in
the secret history of the world and the Solar System. UH.
The takeaway from this now, granted, Matt, you and I
and NOL have not ourselves been subject to these debriefings,
(30:27):
are party to them, but the takeaway is that for
the last ten thousand years, again according to Bob, these
extraterrestrials have been externally correcting human evolution, and for the
last fifteen years, at the time you received this briefing,
they engaged in a direct technology exchange with the human
(30:49):
scientists at the S four facility. The technology exchange part
is pretty interesting because you have to wonder what kind
of technology could humans have that aliens would be interested in. Seriously,
a microwave, Let's see what eighty nine or I guess
(31:09):
sevent nine. Pizza that's it, dude, Pizza casity is certain
types of sandwich sauce, that's it. That's it. Kept Sayson No,
because you if if these vehicles can travel to Earth
(31:30):
through the vast distances, especially from Reticuli, which is a
binary star system a far far away. If you could
get here through with those you know, vehicles, or even
a larger vehicle, much larger vehicle, taking a bunch of
these tiny ones across that vast distance of space and time.
Then Yet, no technology that we've got on this planet
(31:52):
is going to be awesome unless you're talking about culture
as a technology. Music. Maybe we had some, really, I mean,
we did have some pretty awesome music at that time
that came out of the sixties. M hmmm, I don't know,
I don't know. Maybe that's what it was. It was
an exchange of incredible technology that became these smartphones that
(32:14):
we all have right now. Uh, that's what we got,
and they got led Zeppelin. Oh yeah, no, okay, wait no,
that's the answer. Yeah, so uh yeah. Also one one
thing to say, the quiet part out loud. Uh. One
thing that's not often acknowledged in these conversations is that, yes,
(32:37):
technology suppression is real. Uh. It's maybe not as insidious
as it's often characterized, but it is true that there
is technology well ahead of the curve in various fields
that the public doesn't have access to yet. Uh. Smartphones
were around before the public knew they were around, so
(32:59):
that but that part is true. And that's again it's
not necessarily sinister. It's just R and D can take
a while, you know. Uh. But that doesn't prove what
Bob Lazar is saying. He also goes on to outline
and this is folks, this is literally the homepage of
the website. He goes on to outline the purported mechanics
(33:23):
of these craft because again he says, he focused on
working with the propulsion system and he claims the power
source is element one fifteen. This, this is not the
same thing as the element one fifteen on the Human
periodic Table. Our civilization knows element one fifteen as muscovium. Uh.
(33:46):
This was first created in two thousand three, uh, and
it was added to the periodic table in So what
that means is at the time that Bob Aar was
talking about this as a power source, element fifteen was
not official on the human periodic Table. I mean, that's
(34:10):
that's intense, right, it would be. But again, the element
one fifteen he's talking about is not the element one
fifteen we're talking about. He's talking about something completely different. Yeah,
oh yeah, there's another thing that Bob goes into when
it comes to the tech things like when at least
(34:30):
how these aircraft function, the spacecraft, and he talks about
things like gravity amplifiers as a way to move into
like make the ships do the kinds of movement that
has allegedly been observed by like Navy pilots and stuff
and some of the videos that we've seen in recent years. Um,
(34:52):
there's what it is, some process to move craft inside
and outside of Earth's atmosphere. So like if you imagine
and turing the atmosphere of a planet, like diving into
an ocean or something, right from the air to the ocean,
it's like from space into the atmosphere. Um, and you've
you can hear Bob make these claims. You can see
it written in several places. So this is I mean,
(35:16):
that's really what he claimed. Yeah, yeah, the the idea
of the science behind trans medium propulsion, Yes, exactly. Uh,
this is a lot to take it, you know. And
at this point, again to be objective, we have to
note no other scientists, nor any official governmental or military
organization has directly corroborated these specific claims, at least not publicly.
(35:42):
If anyone had, again, this would immediately become the biggest
story in human history. For several years after he went public,
Lazarre functioned in a kind of way for liminal space.
He was a very all known character in ufology circles,
(36:04):
but you probably wouldn't have known much about him unless
you were already plugged into that sphere and that community. Right,
if you are a UFO enthusiasts during this time, someone
says Bob Lazar, and you immediately have an opinion. If
you are not someone who looks into the world of
UFOs and the allegations of that phenomenon, then Bob Lazar
(36:28):
is just a name to you. But this all changes
a few years back. There is a renaissance of the
case of Bob Lazar, and it is I would say
it is primarily due to uh documentary made by our
pal and recurring guests on our show, Jeremy Corbell. Oh yes,
(36:49):
it's you can watch it right now. It's titled Bob
Lazar Colin Area One and Flying Saucers. It was put
out and then there are a lot of appearances like
we like we mentioned at the top of this episode
on Rogan in other places where Bob and Jeremy talked
openly about the claims that Bob has made and about
(37:12):
the process of making this documentary and like Jeremy attempting
to you know, be as objective as he can while
also investigating Bob, like investing in Bob and and just
letting Bob tell the story. Yeah, yeah, and Uh. Jeremy
Corbell also works closely with George Knapp, who conducted that
original interview in so this documentary which you can see
(37:38):
and in multiple online platforms, this documentary introduces a new
global audience to the case of Bob Lazart and I
I really like the way you describe you describe it
in that, but it's it's something you should check out
yourself and get back to us or get back to
Jeremy with four feedback. Uh. Leads a lot of people,
(38:02):
some skeptics, some with their own pre existing ideas about
U A P or UFOs to weigh in with their
own interpretations. As you can imagine, many people found this
documentary for one reason or another controversial, and they didn't
all agree in what they saw as controversial about this.
(38:23):
So we leave it to you to let us know
what you think in that regard. But right now, We're
going to take a break for a word from our sponsors,
and we'll come back and ask one of the bigger questions,
what can we prove we returned. Uh, this is a
(38:46):
little bit of deep water. We're going to be objective here,
as we always say, as Matt and Nolan I are
always pointing out, you have to look at the source.
That's why we're giving you information directly from Bob Lazar's website.
And we also want to avoid character assassination, unearned smearing
(39:06):
of character, especially if it's unrelated to the claims we uh,
we just explored. But there is some stuff that is
frankly baggage for Lazar. It's not related necessarily to his
claims regarding extraterrestrials. No, but it what it what it
(39:28):
does is it's it's it's like stuff that would come
up on a report about you if you were applying
for a lease, right or a new loan, Like this
is stuff that would show up in a in a report.
So we we do kind of have to I think
we do have to talk about it. Yeah, I agree,
I agree with you. Man Um. All right, So first things, First,
(39:51):
institutions that he has said he worked with or studied
at either can't confirm his specific claim or they have
no record of him being there. We can we can
say conclusively he did attend Pierce Junior College, but after that,
with the cal Tech and the m I T degrees,
(40:13):
there simply appears to be no record. Second, he was
on the wrong side of the law a few times.
Once in Bob Lazar was arrested for allegedly aiding and
abetting a prostitution ring. Those charges were later reduced to
something called felony pandering. He pled guilty and got a
(40:38):
hundred and fifty hours of community service. So we never
did hard time or anything like that. But I have
no idea. I don't want to make light of it. Um.
But yeah, it's got this implication that there's just regular pandering,
(40:59):
for there's misdemeanor pandering. I've got an article that says,
what is pandering and why is it a crime in Georgia? Okay,
r I p your search history, but go on that's
doing this. It's from the Family Law and Criminal Defense
Attorneys of Lankford and more Law. It says the definition
(41:20):
of pandering is to gratify or indulge, and usually someone
is pandering when they are simply saying what they think
you want them to say. Hold on, huh, what we
might have to put a pin in this one. It's
listened as a sexual offense, says under Georgia Criminal Code
(41:41):
pandering by compulsion by dress or coercion causing a person
to perform an active prostitution. Okay, all right, that's a
little more. The criminal connection is a little more clier there. Okay, okay, alright,
so we've got that figured out. It was hurting me. Yeah, no, no,
we did the right thing. And again, Mike condolence says,
(42:03):
to your search history. So there there is a story
in a narrative regarding this event. In Supporters of Lazarre
will claim that this was all an attempt to smear
his character, to call into question his reliability. Still, the
(42:30):
case is officially on the books, and that's not even
the big incident. Because third, there's the government rate. Well
there are two government rates. Then these also really happened. Yeah, well,
we we talked about the story. We looked at its
website and the contents and the things you can buy,
and you can imagine that the government might have taken
(42:51):
issue with old United Nuclear scientific a couple of times.
Remember this is this is a store that sells things
like yell okay, like the thing it was held up.
Remember that one time yellow literal amounts it's funny size
yellow cake. It's like the Halloween candy version of yellow cake. Yes. Um,
(43:16):
So the store operated, I guess operates at least at
the time when there was a raid, it was operating
out of New Mexico, UM and then it changed to
operate out of Michigan, and at least according to our
records been we believe it's run out of Oregon right now.
In en they announced moving to Oregon. UH. In two
(43:38):
thousand three, a rate occurred. The Consumer Product and Safety
Commission executed a raid, which I was not aware they
would do, because he had sold some chemicals that were
typically used in the manufacture of illegal fireworks, and he
(44:00):
sold these Two federal agents. Lazar, in an interview, said
that during the raid he heard some fishy stuff because
the swat team said, and this is a quote, this
is total b s. It's nothing like they told us
in the briefing. So, according to federal court records associated
(44:23):
with this raid. A few years later, in two thousand six,
Lazar officially pleads guilty to violating the Federal Hazardous Substances Act,
and this is you know, this is not like murdering someone.
He gets a seven thousand five dollar fine and is
sentenced to three years federal probation, which is not a
(44:44):
walk in the park, but it's better than incarceration. Well,
it's not a walk in the park. But I have
to say I kind of on the side of the
Consumer Product and Safety Commission a little bit here, just
after looking at the site and what what it's offering
in I feel like at least somebody needs to be
keeping a close eye on those chemicals and substances that
(45:05):
are on sale. Um. But you know, a raid keeping
an eye on things and rating a facility. Those are
two very different things, right, Yeah, And it's not really uh,
you know, a question of morality at that point. It's
that's a pretty clear law, right unless again, you believe
this is part of a cover up or a smear campaign,
(45:25):
or you believe that the FEDS were after is something different.
In t seventeen, United Nuclear is rated again by local
police in Michigan. I believe in coordination with the FBI,
uh Lazar and his advocates. I think this was very suspicious,
(45:45):
both in the timing and in the official explanation the
Lazar and Jeremy has said this to Jeremy Corbell has
also said things along this line. Lazar maintained that the
FBI was attempting to recover samples of something that Lazar
(46:07):
may or may not have taken from Area fifty one.
That would be element one fifteen, again not muscovium. The
idea is, or the theory, is that Lazar was under
government surveillance and has been for quite a while, and
that this raid was the latest in a decades long
(46:28):
harassment campaign, character assassination campaign against Lazar by the US government.
And and here, Matt, I think we can we can
refer to an excellent piece about this by a journalist
named Tim McMillan writing for Vice. Tim went and obtained
(46:49):
the official records of the raid, and he spoke with
law enforcement all who would speak with him. And from
those records that this journalist finds it isn't seen that
the raid had much to do with aliens. But it
makes for a strange story all its own. Again, we
see competing narratives. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't seem to have
(47:11):
to do with aliens, but it does seem to have
to do with technology that Bob claims came from aliens, right,
because it, like you said, it goes back to that
element one fifteen, which Bob claims this element, when you
apply radiation to it or expose it to radiation, this
element creates its own gravitational field, which would be mind
(47:32):
blowing and incredible if true. Uh. And if true, the
FEDS and other government agencies would probably want to have
their hands on it, because, as we've talked in the past,
the government is very much compartmentalized. There's not great communication
between departments often and between intelligence agencies and you know,
(47:53):
d O J and and all kinds of things like that.
I'm not saying it isn't great at times when when
the communications need to be fully on, but often there's
a bit of working in the dark when it comes
to what what other agencies are doing. True, one hand
may not know the actions of the other hand. That's
(48:15):
that's simply a fact. That's a really good point too. Um. Yeah,
So again, this idea, this idea that the raid may
have an ulterior motive, especially at second rate, it all
goes back to this purported element one fifteen, and Lazar
(48:38):
will be um he has some interesting things to say
about this. Uh. He did once describe this element as
quote a super heavy unique element. When it's exposed to radiation,
it produces its own gravitational field, its own anti gravitational field,
and that's what's used to lift and propel the draft.
(49:01):
It is suggested, but not explicitly stated, that when Lazar
left employment he stole some amount of this substance, and
that he may have it today. If you look at
the philip we're saying official a lot in here, but
if you look at the confirmed element one fifteen, good
(49:21):
old muscovium, you see that it's it's probably a very
difficult thing to store. It has a half life of
a little more than half a second point six five
of a second. So it's like once you actually created,
that thing decays and and is no longer element With fifteen,
I mean you think green beans and bananas go bad quickly.
(49:44):
They got nothing on muscovium U. So like, don't buy
that unless you're cooking it that night. It's the case
that came up. But but yeah, so the thinking is
that the government wants this stuff back and that's why
law enforcement rated Lazar's business, But the official records seemed
(50:06):
to indicate that instead this raid was in connection with
a homicide. So we've got reports that come from Michigan
State Police Sergeant Detective Thomas, and according to these reports,
there was a death that occurred in connection with the
United Nuclear in t like the end of as a
(50:29):
person named Janelle Struzel s t r u z L
and Struzel was at least cording this report poisoned died
of thallium toxicity. And thallium is one of these things
that United Nuclear probably may we are unsure had its
hands on or had available right, thallium sulfate. It's a colorless, odorless,
(50:53):
tasteless substance and it is sometimes referred to as the
quote poisoner's poison because of how toxic it is and
how difficult it is to detect once it's been deployed. Yeah. Yeah,
So the idea is that where the belief was that
Janelle Struzel's husband, a romantic partner, had poisoned her with
(51:17):
thallium sulfate, and Lazar's company sells valium, so the police
were there to learn more about who he may have
sold this material too. It's important to note Lazar was
not and has never been listed as a suspect in
this in this homicide at all. They just wanted to see,
(51:41):
at least from their side, they wanted to see if
they could connect the dots a chain of command for
this poison or substance used as such. And Lazar says
sometime in March, a woman had provided him with an
element collection from her brother who had past and he
said that he took possession of this and he agreed
(52:03):
to sell it on his website. According to the official
reports and to Lazar himself, thallium was one of the
elements in that collection, and he says, thallium is something
we never carried before. It was donated to us by
the family of an element collector that died. So now
we've had now we have this collection of stuff basically
(52:25):
we would we would not ordinarily carry. Right. So he
is fully cooperating with law enforcement. By the way, the
entire time, he's fully compliant. He's not trying to you know,
He's not like the viral clips on YouTube of someone
saying by being detained, being detained bro everything they asked
(52:47):
for he gave it to him. Uh. In May later
that year, Jeremy Corbelle was speaking with a couple of
news outlets, as particularly a British outlet called Express, and
he said, said, there's a quote he said, we believe
the official intent of the raid was a cover story,
and that they were looking for a piece of the
fuel source for the extraterrestrial craft Lazar once worked on
(53:11):
for the United States government at area. So then we see,
you know, we see the other side. We see these
allegations that maybe, surprise, surprise, the government is and being
completely honest about their intentions. Uh. They Lazar and corbell
both say this was part of a sustained surveillance campaign. Uh.
(53:34):
And in the documentary that Matt you you mentioned just
a bit ago, you can see them discuss the possibility
of Lazar having possession of something like this, and the
police search occurred very shortly after this conversation, according to
Bob and Jeremy, right, yeah, And it's really weird. In
(53:57):
the documentary, at least, Jeremy and Bob report that the
the the investigators, the people actually came to to raid
the facility were they were able to again, according to
these two guys. They were able to repeat back much
of the same conversation that Jeremy and Bob were having
(54:17):
where they were discussing this element one fifteen in private, right,
So it says though there was some kind of ongoing
investigation into either Bob or Jeremy or both of them,
right right exactly, and something way beyond the idea that
your your phone might listen to you and then target
Facebook at or something like that or I don't know,
(54:39):
an Instagram add whatever whatever has the most sad. So
active surveillance is what they're talking about. And that's not
out of the realm of possibility. That is something that
the US government can has and can do, has doing
and is doing right now as we record. So everybody say, hey,
does it there in this one? Yeah, Steve our hapless
(55:02):
a s a intern over there at the Puzzle Palace
Hope College is going well, man, and thanks for tuning
in as always, even though it's your job. So it
looks like, according to the statements from the Michigan Police,
they had already gotten search warrants a day before Jeremy
(55:24):
and Bob are having this conversation. So we see these
two competing narratives, the idea that the FEDS were tracking
down thallium as it might have been connected to a homicide,
and the idea that the raids official purpose was a
cover up to obtain something much more unusual. As we said,
Lazarre fully cooperates. Uh, he doesn't believe the official reasoning
(55:45):
about thallium, but he says, you know, anything they asked
for he gave them, he complied. He also noted that
it seemed the FEDS were much more interested in getting
access to his businesses can puters rather than finding thallium. Uh.
There is there is a thing though, and this is interesting.
(56:08):
I don't think this hard proof. Uh. Someone goes on
Reddit shortly after and they say that they work at
United in Nuclear and that the raid was due to
this case of thallium poisoning and so so at least
one person claiming to be an employee claims that the
(56:30):
official story is legit. And this is you know, ah,
where do we go from here? Well, well, the thing is, like,
you have to decide what you're gonna believe here, Right,
do you believe the story coming from Bob? Do you
believe the story coming from the official reports on the investigation.
The uh, the story about thallium is a legitimate reason
(56:53):
there was a death, a murder, right, homicide that needs
to be investigated where there they need to investigate the
origin of the murder weapon, which was a poison, right
or or you believe that you will. In order to
believe Bob's story about the reason the raid occurred, you
have to believe that Bob worked at this secret facility
(57:16):
S four right near Area one, that he worked on
extraterrestrial craft, that extra terrestrial craft was there, that he
was able to take some of the element that causes
that craft to be able to fly and was hiding
it at his facility, and the government wanted that element.
(57:36):
So there's a lot that you have to believe in
order to believe that statement. Right. In the other instance,
you all you have to do is believe that someone
writing a report about an FBI raid and a murder
told the truth. So it's just it's a tough it's
a tough thing to not be skeptical about. I think, yeah, no,
that's a very good point, and we'll put uh. The
(57:59):
other thing is government raids always seem suspicious, they're expensive,
The FEDS don't do them for frenzies necessarily. Uh. It's
also strange that the thing that keeps getting me is
that if Bob Lazar and this is not a ding
on the character of the person at all, But the
(58:20):
question is, if these claims are wholly or even partially true,
then how is this guy still out and about walking,
speaking public, living a day to day life of as
a civilian. Uh. Lazarre seems to be pretty careful about
some things. He said that if he did have a
sample of element one fifteen, he would absolutely not reveal it,
(58:45):
despite knowing this would confirm his story and also absolutely
rock the foundations of modern chemistry. So I don't understand
that last bit. I don't. Well, maybe it's a worry
about physical danger, you know, from their side, if we're
assuming that perspective. Uh, look, if it wasn't clear, folks,
(59:06):
and we're going a little long here. Skeptics hate this guy. Uh,
they object to him. You can find no, uh no
shortage of investigations that call into questions some of these claims.
Some ufologists like Stanton Friedman, who he mentioned earlier, also
don't particularly cotton to him, and a lot of experts
(59:28):
in various stem fields have dismissed his claims and explanations
as pseudo science, but again there are some seemingly true
parts of the story. He did work for that contractor.
He also UH and props to Jeremy Corbel here uh
Lazar describes as security device employed at Area fifty one
(59:49):
when he supposedly worked there, and it was a hand
scanner that would measure the length bone length and use
that to confirm someone's I identity. Jeremy did find evidence
for photographic evidence that a device like this was being
used during the late nineteen eighties to secure, you know,
(01:00:12):
top secret facilities. But again on the other side, skeptics
will point out that this device, which is called the
Identimat two thousand, thousand thousand, was public knowledge by the
early to mid nineteen seventies. That part is also true.
The Identimat three thousand is just me and I go, yep,
it's you. Yeah, we've got top security here and stuff
(01:00:35):
they don't want you to know. So also we have
to note that again Lazarre came forward before Area fifty
one officially existed. UH this I don't think it was
until like two thousand thirteen ors, So that can declassify.
CIA documents confirmed the existence and location in the place.
(01:00:57):
But again, as we said at the top, this is
just scrap seen the surface. We welcome you to the
deja vu moments we have experienced every time we're talking
about Bob Lazar, and we may need to return to
the case in the future, definitely. I would just point
out that Google Maps, at least in my experience, unearthed
area fifty one much earlier, which is such a surreal
(01:01:21):
thing because you know, you work for Uncle Sam and
you're supposed to pretend it doesn't exist, even if even
if you have like relatives or kids or your kids
friends who are coming up to you with a print
out of a Google map. You know, uncle Jim, what's this?
There's nothing there in the desert. It's just a lake
(01:01:46):
bed by men in black like not working. Okay, yeah,
you don't what that. That's a piece of paper, that's
what that is. Who wants pizza? So just change the subject, right,
That's pretty easy with kids. This this is the thing.
We're left with questions now. One, if the story is true, logically,
(01:02:08):
why is Bob blaz Are being allowed to live an
ordinary day to day life. His supporters will say that
he is not living in an ordinary life. He is
intensely surveiled at all times. Right, That's that's one of
the claims. But then if the story is untrue, why
is it garnered so much attention? Is it just because
(01:02:29):
people like the story, they like the X files of it. Um,
it's a cool story no matter what, whether it's true
or not true. And and that's the thing. It goes
back to the truth. I mean, most importantly, I think
you and I can agree, and hopefully you listening at home,
it seems like someone is not telling the truth. Whether
(01:02:51):
that's the FEDS or whether that's Bob Lazar himself. There's
clearly something they don't want you to know. But what
is that exactly depends on who you ask. So now
we're asking you, fellow conspiracy realist, what do you think?
Can you explain it to us? Can you send us
element please? Please? There are there are so many books
(01:03:14):
about Bob Lazar's life and story that you can read
right now if you're into it, by the way, and
we highly recommend you do that and then write to us,
find us on social media, call us whatever you want
to do, and tell us about that. Also, before you
even contact us. Consider buying our book Stuff they Don't
want you to know. It's coming out in October. You
(01:03:35):
can preorder it right now. And we talk about UFOs
extensively U A P and the phenomena in that book.
So if you're interested in this topic, I highly recommend
you purchase Stuff they Don't want you to know, written
by Ben Bullen and Matt Frederick and Noel Brown and
association with UH case A DA Production and UH, you know,
(01:03:59):
I really like the way Noel put it. We're talking
about this earlier, he said, this could get annoying if
we're talking about this too much, uh, even though our
lives are at stake. Noel pointed out that this is
kind of like UH, public radio Pledge drive rules, right,
stop talking about it as soon as UH and if
(01:04:22):
you want to UH, if you want to talk with
us about something else, or if you want to talk
with us about the book. A lot of people won
the sweepstakes are getting their signed posters now. Thank you
for playing along, folks, Congratulations on the scribbles that are
all of our signatures, and big, big thanks as always
(01:04:43):
to Nick Turbo Benson. Please check out his art. He's amazing.
We're very lucky to work with him. But if you
want to talk about anything and you don't sip the
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Be careful. Sometimes the ABYSS calls back. Yes, it often does.
(01:05:04):
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