May 21, 2021 • 47 mins
As authorities continue to unravel the enigmatic, at-times disturbing life of Jeffrey Alan Lash, they dig into what little is known about his past, seeking to uncover answers. How did he get all those weapons? What about all that hard currency? In the course of their investigation, they begin to notice a pattern: Lash seemed to be targeting people, turning them into supporters of his vague mission -- and, at times, threatening them if they refused to give him funding and lodging. His claims had begun to evolve into a sort of self-perpetuated mythology, wherein he was a sort of superhuman antihero, fighting the forces of darkness in an ongoing war of which the public was unaware. Some of his followers thought he would marry them, some thought he would help them become aliens. No one was sure exactly what was going to happen next.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt, my name is no. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
set the Shadow, Nicholas Johnson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. We're doing a relatively rare two
part episode on a story that has fascinated all of
(00:48):
us and hopefully you as well. It is the strange
story of one Jeffrey Allen lash. Please do listen to
part one. We've got a lot of We were able
to do a pretty good job, fellas, mixing in some
crazy and some facts. Uh, but there's enough crazy to
go around to be to be just brutally honest with you,
(01:12):
this story, this part two is going to make a
lot more sense if you checked out part one first.
So we're gonna wait and done through the magic of podcasting,
should we should We touch on a couple of the
important characters, just so everybody is like up to speed. Yes,
(01:33):
here are the facts. Jeffrey Allen Lash dies Uh. He
is sixty years old. His body is found in an
abandoned suv in his own neighborhood, which is a very
posh neighbor, very posh community in Los Angeles, and investigators
discover a web of weird events very shortly afterwards. Two
(01:56):
of the big players we've met are Katherine nebron Goren
and also her husband for a time, Dr Gore, And
we've alluded to a couple of other folks that we're
going to meet as well. Yeah, I just want to
touch on Harlan Braun as well. Be r a u
n that is the attorney representing Catherine lebron Gorn. Gotta
(02:18):
ask real quick up front, like what how how did
this gentleman come to live and cohabitate in the situation
with Catherine and her then husband and then managed to
kind of push them apart and sort of take over
the roost as it were. Yeah, yeah, pull a cuckoo
right uh and shout out you know. Unrelated, there's a
fantastic kind of underrated sci fi film called Vivarium, which
(02:43):
I have heard nothing but great things about it, and
I have not seen it. It's so good, you guys.
It's underrated for sure. So how did he how did
he become, you know, a social cuckoo? Uh he would
have an answer for that, Nolan. His answer would be
national security of course, verbatim quote from him. Uh so,
(03:04):
so he knows, he knows the old conversational tricks. At least.
That's that's our recap. Where we left off last, we
were asking ourselves where was the money coming from? How
come his stepmother Shirley Anderson, as well as his late
father did not know the source of his income. How
come nobody seemed to know what he was really up to?
(03:27):
And was there any truth to the bizarre cryptic little
hints he was dropping. I picked him dropping these kind
of out of the blue where they're not really necessary
and conversation like he's he's at that Italian restaurant they
always go to because there were regulars there. They drove
separate cars on license plates and they paid cash for everything.
(03:48):
I wonder if like there's a server who is a
familiar face to him and they say, okay, you know, um,
we are specials today, and he's like, I don't need
the specials. That's not on the CIA, does it like
what we we know that that's just older food that
wasn't sold last week, So we don't want your specials
(04:11):
the CIA that's signed with the CIA. Yeah, I think
that's official policy. But there's a recap. So without further ado,
let's dive right back in. Here's where it gets crazy.
He does have a little bit of a paper trail.
He does have a past because he's done. Um, he's
had some brushes with the law. And he literally told
(04:31):
his attorney that we're gonna tell you this. He literally
told his attorney, Yeah, sorry, I got weird. We're gonna
do this a little different way. That's literally what this
story is. I am become weird and will operate thus Lee.
Uh yeah. This attorney represented him in two thousand nine. Uh.
He called him out on said weirdness. He described his
(04:55):
client's behavior as very strange. Uh. Lash was charged with
misdemeanor posession of a concealed weapon after being stopped by
Culver City police, presumably for not having a license plate.
But we don't know this for a fact. I'm sure
we could find out, but still I'm surprised he dedodged
that for so long. Um and that's according to court documents. UM,
(05:16):
Lash had the ammunition and the firearm in his vehicle.
But because Lash had the ammo and weapons stored correctly
in his vehicle, UM, the charge was dropped. Yeah, but
that's not the weird stuff, guys. The weird stuff is that,
according to the attorney, Lash, after I guess contacting the
(05:38):
law offices, said oh, no, no, no, I'll contact you. Yeah,
you don't need any of my information, like, none of it.
Don't worry. You've got the documents of court documents. Uh,
you don't have to contact me at all. I'm not
going to give you any information. What I'm gonna do
is call you once a day and you're gonna tell
me what's going on with my case. That's it. Because
(06:00):
I'm c I A because I am deeply weird. Once
a day seems a bit much. But the guy was
nothing if not tenacious, right, just to be candid. It's
it's also a clear move or a first move for
manipulative personality right to a point oneself. Like there's a
(06:21):
lot of conflation of client versus authority. Right. These people
are domineering. They want to be the one who knows
the most or appears to they want to be the
one who has the most mystery and they want to
be the one who controls situations. That's a very lazy
psychological sketch up my part, having never met Lash. But
(06:43):
you're you're right. He says, look, I'm just gonna call you.
I've become strange. And they say, okay, well you know
you're paying me in cash, dope. And then there's a
third lawyer who enters the free here enters the conversation.
His name is Robert Renzer. He told the local outfit
kat l A that he had represented Lash for decades,
(07:07):
for almost twenty years, and it was usually in relation
to this guy's guns. And he said, look, he's just
a guy's really private, which I respect, and he's just
really into guns. And he added some interesting stuff here.
He said, you know, as far as I know, Jeffrey
really isn't out here firing guns. May have called him
(07:28):
Jerry AND's interviews. He says he's not really out here
using a bunch of these. In fact, he prides himself
on how well maintained his firearms are. So I would
I would say, as Renser, consider more of a collector.
And then We've got a quote where he does say okay.
A lot of people would call him odd because of
(07:49):
his overwhelming desire for privacy. Some people considered him a
little weird. Yeah. For me, it's like you could tell
he's speaking on someone who's past, but he is speaking
about it's still his client, you know, in his mind.
So he doesn't want to just come out and say
I think it was crazy. He flew over the Cuckoo's
(08:12):
last long ago. Well, I think about how you, whoever
you are, imagine keeping plus guns in very good order,
well maintained. That's um imagine that. Do you guys realize
how difficult it is, especially if they're ever fired, to
(08:34):
keep a gun really well maintained. It is not an
easy it's not an easy thing. It takes work. And
now you've got twelve hundred of them in your townhouse,
and where do you put them to keep them really
well maintained? Oh man, it's just there's so many questions.
(08:55):
It's you know, it's it's funny because I think for
a lot of people who are verse of firearms, it's
it's something you may not always think about, but you
gotta break the machine down and you got to clean it.
It's there. There are rules for good firearm maintenance that
a lot of people just don't do, you know what
I mean. They might they might buy a gun and
(09:16):
they never familiarize themselves with it. They just hide it somewhere.
Um and that could that can be dangerous, be very dangerous,
very quickly. But I always like to think of cars.
If you are if you ever read the manual for
a car, it's there's stuff that no one ever does.
Like you're supposed to walk and have a four point
safety check before you get into your car. That's the
(09:39):
last time you did that. What's the last time you
were like, Hey, hold on, I need to I need
to make sure the headlights are working and the tail
lights are good. I'm driving with a doughnut on my
back tire for about a month now on the highway.
I mean, look, it's I'm gonna get it taken care of. Okay.
It's just such a hass is the hazard of being
(10:00):
an adult. You have to do things that aren't fun
and spend money and wasted don't feel like achievements. Well
here's the thing, guys, I just had another tire pop.
So this is my second one. Is Atlanta, Atlanta the
roads or garbage? Okay, done with my my road conditions, Ran,
I would just say I think that I think that
(10:21):
maintenance thing, the four point check is a generational thing.
My grandfather close to every time I got into a
car with him when he was still alive, he would
check the oil. He would walk around the vehicle like
he would He would do that, especially if we were
going further than just up the street. And here's another one.
UH did an episode this years ago, the old question
(10:45):
of like when should you change your oil? Right? Is
it every X amount of miles? Is every x amount
of months? Theoretically you know what's best for your car
is if you change the oil every time you drive.
I'm just saying they're maintenance standards for any machine that
a lot of people do not care about. And when
it came to firearms, Lash was someone who did care
(11:07):
about this stuff. Thank you for bringing us back. We
brought it back. I know it was. That was a
parkour on our part, not really. It was fun. And
you made a great point about how crappy the roads
are here in Atlanta. They literally pay a guy to
just go put metal plates out, which is like in
and of itself almost more dangerous than the freaking pottle. Yeah,
(11:29):
did I ever tell you guys about the the hubcap
anomaly that was up the street from my place. I
was trying to figure out for the longest time. I
thought it was a weird performance art thing because there
was this like growing pyramid of hub caps on the
corner of the street next to me, or very close
to it. I was walking somewhere one day and then
(11:51):
I finally found the mystery. There was a small but
deep hole in the road and like a weird curved
thing or something. But I was walking by and a
hub cap flew off like a little you know, these
are newer cars. There's a little plastic e hub caps, right,
so so their frisbees almost this thing kind of like
(12:13):
what the bump, and it fell near this pyramid of
hub caps. So I think somebody was just happening along
and kind of gathering them up. But I should have
taken a picture. It was epic. They actually fixed the road, well,
they put a metal plate on there. I think they'll
get to fixing it later. This has nothing to do
with Jeffrey lash. I'm gonna put my money that they
(12:34):
all rolled, they all hit that one whatever that one
thing was, and they all rolled to that one place,
just because that's the nature of them. That would be
beautiful if if, if hub caps, like the majority of
people seek the company of their own, you know, the
inspiring it's a very Pixar hub cap we've just created. Hey, hey, guys,
guess what transition? Hey, what's this student spy? He sure
(12:59):
wanted people who think so. But what if you were
more than a spy? That more than a spy? What
does that even mean? More than meets the eye? What
if he were an alien? So remember how he said,
you're going to Transformer Dan, if you were a Transformer Matt,
(13:20):
I was thinking about this. You're you're Optimist prime extremism
is uh, something I can't forget now ever since our
conversation Optimist Prime extremism, No, I've already forgotten it. So
you look at it, You're like, I look at we're
talking about trucks faces, vehicles with faces. He said, No,
(13:42):
when I look at a truck, I wonder if it's
Optimist Prime or something like that. But anyway, this show
was sponsored by Transformers. I think I got is that
really really really cool? Really quickly. I don't see the
benefit of being able to turn into a truck. I
just don't see the tactical benefits. Being a row Bots
seems way cooler and more versatile. Turning into a truck
(14:03):
seems like a downgrade. Well, they had to do that
because otherwise the humans would find out this y, which
is that they live among us, and they all had
to have dealer plates. That was one of the tricks
of the Transformers there it is. So we don't know
if Transformers are a sponsor of today's podcast, but let's
pause and find out together. Nope. Well, the reason I
(14:35):
think we're laughing here is because how stupidly hilarious would
it be if there was like a Transformers movie that
we didn't know about, and that was just the ad
in somebody is going to listen to this episode and
there will be some kind of Transformers integration, and I'm
so excited for you. I'm glad you heard that. Yeah,
(14:56):
that one was for you specifically. So we left on
a bit of a cliffhanger, right, an alien? What are
you talking about? Remember how we said that Catherine never
on Goren left. She's skeedattled to Oregon to ditch the
heat after lashes death, and this was per his instructions,
as she has claimed, and we said she took an
(15:18):
employee along with her. This is one Dawn vad Bunker
Don Don Marie mat Bunker. I believe she briefly went
missing in Oregon after lashes death, And a lot of
what we know about Don's position comes from her mother,
Laura vad Bunker, who was very worried about her daughter.
(15:40):
In a brief bit of good news, Dawn vad Bunker
turned out to be fine. She was just off the
grid for a little while. Yeah. And both of these women,
at least it seems, according to statements, fully believed Jeffrey
Allen Lashes stories about being a spy are working for
a government agency of some sort and needing to protect
his privacy in some way. But that's not all they
(16:02):
believed about him. According to their stories, they believed he
was a human alien hybrid. Cool, what does that even
cons So that's sort of like a human alien hybrid.
Does that mean like the spawn of an alien and
the humans relations some sort of genetically engineered lab grown creature,
(16:26):
a combination of DNA right of of some sort part
of it was human part was not. And this is
all coming from Laura ad Bunker, the mother of Dawn,
the the young younger woman who was there uh in Oregon.
She she said that this was a genuine belief that
was held by her daughter. And apparently, according to the
(16:51):
stories that they were told that they believed, uh, Jeffrey
Allen lash was sent to the earth to protect it,
to protect humanity essentially, Yeah, in some nebulous way that
he could not explicitly detail, right, which is a key
part of these sorts of trying to be diplomatic explanations.
(17:13):
I'm getting flashbacks of the story that just broke the
week that we're recording this about all mother mm hmm,
about mother love. Yeah, we uh, I guess we should
address that we when so, we record those strange news
segments about a week before they air. Un that's just
(17:35):
the system that Noel Matt's and our our our team
has worked out. So when we recorded this, UM, we
did predict that it was an unsustainable situation. We knew
something would probably happen, something does often with these organizations,
but we did not know it would happen so soon. Um,
(17:58):
and you know, ohther or not you agree with somebody's
spiritual beliefs. The truth is no one knows the answer
or no one that knows. No one has been able
to convince the rest of the world they know the answer.
So you have to think of everyone as human beings
and an exercise empathy. So our thoughts are with these
(18:18):
people during this incredibly difficult time as well as the survivors.
What are we talking about. Well, just a few days
after we mentioned the existence of the Love has One cult,
news emerged that their leader, Matt, referring to as all
Mother Mother Love Amy Carlson, had passed away and been mummified. So, yes,
(18:43):
so would be very careful. I believe what you would like,
but never hesitate to reach out if you if you
feel like you are one of your family members is
being held by one of those organizations against your will.
As a very weird time to put in that p
s A. But I think, well, it's not that we
because yeah, I don't know, some of the women involved
(19:04):
in Jeffrey Allen Lash's life were doing things that may
seem bizarre to some of us. Yeah, yeah, because you know,
it's kind of like I never thought I'd say it
this way, this is not a ding on scientology. This
is not a ding on scientology. Just repeating that for
the lawyers, for our legal team. When you hear people
(19:28):
say stuff that sounds really outlandish and you know that
they are reasonable, intelligent people, it's easy to dismiss them
because they're dismissed those beliefs because we don't know how
they arrived at that. It's always an incremental, uh, sort
of education, right, Indoctrination is a better word. So if
you hear somebody say, here are the like when we
(19:49):
learned the inner workings of Scientology and the inner belief
system of that organization thanks to wiki leaks, we thought
it was crazy, right, We thought this was very outlandish.
But we also could tell that people don't learn this
all at once. They learn it in a way that
leverages what's called the sunk cost fallacy. So at the
(20:12):
time you start hearing this other stuff, you've already been
primed for it. When she talked about earlier, and everything
seems just like a little step further. It's never a
bridge too far, and that's how you end up like
Don vad Bunker who said, yess he sent to Earth
to protect us. He's part human. He's part alien. He
(20:34):
is also working for the government. Uh and yeah, I
was originally hired by Katherine Nebron too manage some of
the properties she owned in the area. But then I
finally met Lash. She didn't meet either Katherine or Jeffrey
for a long time, she was working remotely. But when
she did, she was taken in by a story. She
(20:56):
started following a diet. We mentioned specific diets earlier, and
while you were talking about your piano teacher in part one,
Dawn gives up smoking and she starts doing the Lash diet,
heavy on raw meat. Weird raw meat too, like raw bison.
Her mom is saying she's drinking all these gross juices.
(21:17):
She told her mother that she was doing this because
Lash was helping her turn into an alien hybrid herself. That's, yes,
an interesting notion of using your diet with very earthly
foods to turn into, you know, an extraterrestrial hybrid. Then
(21:37):
again sounds outlandish, but we have to realize, you know,
this is an intelligent person. There is a context. There's
like a a chain of indoctrination that led her to that.
And that's not all she said. She she gave us
a little more information about what lashes top secret projects
were at the moment. Yeah. She said that Lash was
(21:58):
assisting the government with these operations on the computer all
night like that. He would just stay up and do
whatever he was doing on his machine. Then he would
travel to different solar systems and planets through the mechanisms
of the computer, through the chips whatever is on there,
through the networks. He would somehow astrally or otherwise travel
(22:24):
throughout the galaxy. Well, I mean, good gig, if you
can get it right. Presumably one of his twelve cars,
you know, had some sort of interdimensional travel mods. I
love it. I would like to think that I would
very much. That was fifteen. It's probably a Saturn. It
(22:45):
was so all right. Going back to these attorneys, right,
the attorneys are very much like they definitely have a
horse in the race. They have an angle. They're representing clients,
but they're also trying to stick to the letter of
the law and the things that they can prove that
they can confirm. That's why it's interesting that several of
the attorneys connected to Jeffrey Allen Lash found the idea
(23:08):
of him being a spy laughable. Ha ha ha. L
m a O, they would say. But there's an interesting
problem there. None of the attorneys related to Lash in
any way have been able to confirm that they actually
knew what it was he did for a living. But
as we said, Harland Braun did not believe that Lash
(23:28):
was selling guns or drugs, but he was also baffled.
He noted that Lash quote could have been working for anyone.
It's hard to imagine, however, that it's a total figment
of his imagination because there's so much money involved. There's
almost five million dollars worth of guns that were taken
by the police. And then this led him to conclude
(23:50):
something that I'm sure has been on all of our
minds through Part one and up to now, led him
to conclude the following. The real problem is if he
was working for a government, an agency, or foreign they
would never corroborate who American or foreign agency, they wouldn't
corroborate it. That makes a lot of sense, right, if
(24:12):
he's so deep undercover for another government or another spy
agency that's outside of the US, why would anybody admit
that that's what he was doing, especially if he was
providing them with, you know, like high level intelligence somehow.
I don't know if he was an American agent. I
(24:33):
don't know, dude. I'm really wondering, like how often agents
are like deceased agents are mentioned or even if they're undercover.
I guess if they're ever mentioned by you know, or
acknowledged by an agency. Well, it depends, you know. Because
we talked about s O V and Vietnam, they had
explicit an explicit understanding that if things went sideways, they
(24:58):
didn't exist, you know. But that's that's a foreign agent
in Vietnam. This would be a US agent in the US,
operating domestically, except when he's in space um and running
what he claimed was a really big company. Towards towards
the end leading into the events of the of July,
(25:20):
will find that he was talking to another woman and
he was a little bit more oddly enough, a little
bit more specific, like his story was the same, but
he was clearly evolving it as we moved from victim
to victim, which is what I think is happening. Just
as a spoiler, Uh, that leads us to something else.
You know, there is money, The money is real. Somebody
(25:41):
about the guns. They didn't get paid in like space stories.
So what if the cash came from a more mundane source.
There maybe another conspiracy of foot. There are indications that
Lash was if nothing else seth Can we get some
can we get some smooth music, a little bit of
(26:01):
a Litharia the ladies man and hold that, hold that
sexy music for a quick word from our sponsor, and
then we'll be back with all the juicy details. Let
me get some of this Cavasier reference. You've been listening
(26:24):
to the quiet story kidding, this is still stuff they
don't want you to know. We are back from the break.
What are we talking about with Lash? Well, he had
no shortage of lovers Paramore's girlfriends uh. And this leads
some people, including your faithful correspondent, honestly, to speculate that
he was little more than a con artist. He told
(26:45):
one of his lovers, Michelle Leon's, that he had been
in a relationship with since before. He's hanging out with Katherine.
He told her that he was a former government agent,
top secret security clearance, and he said, you know, I've
got had a rap sheet pretty much over my time.
I've performed counter terrorism operations, I've rescued hostages, I've done
(27:07):
anti harassment missions and yeah, you know, I rescued a
couple of people from cults. What of it. Now I'm
on a mission to save the world because I'm an
alien human hybrid, an alien humanoid hybrid, superspace secret spot,
and I have become strange I and I have become
I am become strange. Yeah, I would say all of
(27:28):
these things add up to definitely becoming strange. I wonder
if it's one of those things where it's like, you know,
science science fiction, of course, is where my brain goes
with this kind of stuff. But like the idea of
maybe slowly metamorphosing that's not a word, morphing into an
alien human hybrid, Like maybe he started off purely human
and then through some sort of event, you know, like
(27:49):
a Hulk type event, perhaps he was um perhaps bombarded
with some kind of you know, alien raise, and then
he received he kind of like got that DNA that's
sort of like you know, grafted onto his DNA. Oh,
I got you, I got you. Okay, so uh, some
early secret version of Crisper was used to take thank you,
(28:12):
thank you for putting science words to my absolutely outlandish
fictional proposition. It's perfect. I think we've got I think
we're onto something between this and the Elevator. We are
killing it on spec scripts and synopsis. What helevator? Yeah,
because the devil like goes down to Earth. I mean later,
(28:33):
there's anology. I've been working on the bible for the show,
and look, I get it. The game show network gets it.
Were on the same page. There's a tie in. Yes,
but I feel like I didn't read the email. So
we're kidding, We're we're We're at least kidding. Lash had
(28:54):
more than a few eccentricities, and this was very clear
to Michelle. He seemed to be a neat freak. He
definitely didn't want her to touch his stuff. As he
said earlier, he had a hard ban on people taking
his photograph. Leland's knew Michelle knew that he had credit cards,
(29:16):
but he always paid in cash. And in she buys
a three bedroom condo in Santa Monica. Lash enters the place.
He starts living there. He takes over one bedroom entirely.
He locks it and just like that, Remember that old
pirate myth was a blue Beard. I think he forbids
(29:37):
her from ever entering. He's got a lock in key system.
He's like, hey, we're cool as long as this room
just doesn't exist. Wow, And I never want to see
you in there. We're never going to talk about it.
And maybe she said what if I ask about it?
And then he probably had like one of those Dennis
Reynold smiles and he's like, I don't ask about it, Jesus.
(30:01):
I wonder if I wonder if he had, like, you know,
in eight seven, he probably had a hundred guns, you know,
like in one bedroom. You could probably put a hundred
guns in a bedroom. Yeah, do you need a gun rack?
You know, you just kind of like stand him up
in a corner, right one goes in and then you
(30:22):
just start pyramiding them out like hubcaps. Back up, guys.
I just I just hope that this terrible fan doesn't
go awry, that there's oh bad. Yeah, yeah, you could
do it. But to the point and she she has
no idea, she doesn't know what's in there. And there's
this excellent article by the Hollywood Reporter that we may
(30:43):
have mentioned in in Part one. Some of the best
reporting on this was Hollywood Reporter and Playboy, and according
to this story by Scott Johnson, which we highly recommend,
reading we now we know that Lash was telling multiple
versions of a story to multiple women, right, and there's
(31:07):
a bizarre rundown of the stuff he would tell Michelle
Leon's and tell his other girlfriends. He would say, he's
a member of anti terror team that he refers to
as his upper staff. So he had his own a
team basically, and Uh, they were brave and lethal and
most importantly, they were super loyal to Lash. If anyone
(31:29):
stood in his way, contradicted him, harmed him, his team
would come after them and kill them. This is like
a this is him trying to be kind of you know,
edge lord e. Right, if it's not true, I guess
we have to say, if it's not true, it's him
being edge lordy and manipulative. But it's also threatening because
he had a temper problem and he was physically abusive
(31:51):
to some of these women. Man Lions. Uh never came
into contact with any of these A team members. She
didn't speak with any of them on the phone. But again,
like it's that threat. I guess it occurred so often
in their relationship, this threat of these other people, that
it just made it feel very very real to Leon's
(32:14):
m hmm, Yeah, And you know, when you're acting with
limited information, you don't know like how how can you
find this out? You know, the internet at this point, right,
you have to do your best in person to suss
out what's happening. And again it's the incremental indoctrination that
is key here. He also says He also says that
(32:38):
he knows the psychic. Her name is Tara, and he
can't talk. He can't say much about her because he
had to teach her to go dark and live off
the grid for national security reasons. Yeah, this guy seems
to complicate the lives of everyone he encounters. Oh, dude,
you have no idea, because here's the thing. He's living
(33:00):
with lions in this condo she bought. He's got the
room that doth not exist, with all his guns and
I think probably all his guns station. And he has
somehow gotten leone's to pay for everything, right, like everything,
not just the condo and rent the food, the supplies
(33:22):
whatever those maybe for any interact or you know, for
going out to the park. She's getting whatever they need
for the picnic um entertainment, everything. I mean, this seems
like a grift of his though, right, Like I've imagined
it maybe even happen more time than we have on record,
because he literally, like I asked at the top of
the show, like, how the hell is this even possible?
(33:43):
But Lash continued to be supported for a time by Lions,
even after moving out and into this other condo with
Nebron Goren with her husband at the time, and then
somehow strong arming him out of the picture. Uh, seems
like a real you know, manipulative con artists. He can't
(34:05):
he can't use any of his own money. He would
get exposed. Mission. Yeah, they can track serial numbers on
this cash. We can use the cash sometimes, but only
only when we absolutely have to. So what do you
mean is he totally insane? I mean there's obviously real
information and real stuff to back up that something weird
(34:25):
is going on with this guy, But he sure seems
to have delusions of grandeur and obviously is is a
total grifter Uh and manipulator. I just it's it's mind boggling. Yes, yeah,
he was a taker, is you know? He was reciprocating
by spinning tales and helping making people think they were
part of something bigger, which is a brilliant way to
(34:47):
get people to be your thralls. So things aren't going
well at the abroad household. Uh. He is worried about
what might happen to his guns now that he's taken
over their house. He's put them in a really weird situation.
These people who own this house, by the way, are
having to go shower at their neighbor's place because he's
stuffed it with so much junk and restricted the areas
(35:10):
of their own house where they can actually live. He
because of the guns, he shut down the water in
their condo. That's that's the reason they had to go. Uh,
they had to go shower other places. He also needed
a special chef for his diet. The chef costs about
seventeen hundred and eighty five dollars a week. He did
(35:30):
not pay for that. Uh. She uh LANs also bought
uh two healing frequency machines that's twelve grand apiece. Uh,
then another undred dollars a year and storage fees for
like more than a decade. She estimates that she's shelled
out about one point eight million dollars. So this is
(35:53):
another pretty well to do woman that is being manipulated
by this guy. He becomes more and more extre dream
he's physically abusive. Gore and you know, we said they
divorced earlier was convinced that Lash was the real deal. However,
he said in he said Lash put a gun against
his head and demanded that Goren continued to give him
(36:16):
the cash he needed to carry out his missions and
says that he gave this guy something around two point
five million dollars. But yep, and then after they divorced,
Nebron took up with Lash, eventually becoming his fiancee without
the knowledge of Michelle Leon's who thought they were still dating.
(36:36):
So full circle back Uru Burros this depart one. Michelle
has finally had enough. She's been trying. She's very close
friends with Catherine, by the way, and she's been trying
to call her to see what's up with her boyfriend.
No one's picking up the phone. This radio silence is distressing. Eventually,
in a moment of desperation, she decides she's going to
(36:58):
break into that locked room and it's not what she expected.
That's right. It was essentially like an episode of that
super depressing reality show Hoarders. Um Lions began to sift
through just absolute piles of stuff um looking for some
(37:19):
clue as to what this dude was all about. But
she found evidence not of any kind of you know,
government work, um, but of other women, at least six
other women in addition to her and Nebron. So we're
(37:40):
talking things like love letters, photographs, an audio cassette that
one of his former lovers had made fromm assuming like
a mixtape. Um, and uh, five or six women whose
names Lions found in this stash, we're still alive. So
she began to contact them, um, and eventually reached out
to four. So these were not the only examples of
(38:03):
this grift that Lash pulled, um, because all of these
stories were identical to her own. Lash had swooped in
and completely hijacked their relationship using a variety of psychological
manipulation tactics. Um. He you know, got them to pay
for everything, cheated them out of their money, you know,
(38:25):
completely took advantage of their good will. Ben you mentioned
at the top of the show or one of the episodes,
how someone like Nebron Jameson Nebron Goren um could have
been a very easy mark for many reasons. And it
appears that he knew exactly the criteria what he was
looking for in such a mark, right, which does importantly
(38:46):
does not mean that he did not believe his own story.
He could have been having what we'll call a Merlin moment. Uh.
And he and the lash Dash was real. He did
have over to under grand in his house, so he
may have been a bit of a Romora, you know,
just attaching himself to the lives of these people and
(39:06):
intimidating them. Some of these women told Michelle they had
a very real fear that if they did not comply,
he would kill them or have them killed. How did
this all shake out, Well, we'll tell you. A legal
battle between Lashes, lovers and relatives ensued over the seized goods.
After his death, he left no will, that's a paper trail, right,
(39:28):
So his his only relatives were these estranged cousins. They
were set to inherit his fortune, which was you know,
they were mainly thinking in terms of the guns. They
were like, that's five million just for the guns. According
to their lawyer, the cousins planned to have the weapons
destroyed to send a message about guns in the US
(39:49):
instead of being sold. Uh and again, all the guns
are clean. Yeah, they wanted to um because they were
worried about that many that they were worried about those
guns getting out on the street. And you have the
wrong hands, got it? What are they doing? You start
a museum on the side of four hundred and it's
(40:11):
bigot and guns. God, I'm in, I am in. I
will take the elevator to big Foot and guns. Uh yeah,
I'm on board. So this this is a problem because
several of the women involved with Lash have their own
lawsuits Lebron and Lions and specific they're seeking compensation for
(40:32):
the millions of dollars they have spent supporting this guy
over the years. The corner eventually concludes the Lash died
at age sixty of natural causes due to a cardiovascular condition.
But the problem is his corpse was so decomposed by
two weeks of summer heat that it was tough to
conclude what was happening to him in his final years. Yes,
(40:56):
in certain cases, some diseases like cants or maybe a
l S can cause you to have psychotic breaks and hallucinations.
But the thing is, his story went on so long
and was seemingly so well thought out and calculated that
you can't really explain it right just by saying, Uh,
(41:16):
he had a medical condition that was messing with his cognition.
To your earlier pointment about having a criminal record, he
had none. He was squeaky clean. That in itself can
be suspicious because if you want good cover, then you
want to have some wartz, right, You want to have
some wrinkles. That makes it look more realistic, which is
(41:37):
why when you do a c g I image of
a person, you want to have a slight asymmetry, right,
because they look more like a person, It's true. Otherwise
you get that uncanny Valley effect, which I think you
could apply that same terms to, like a weirdly squeaky
clean record, Uh starts to feel like not a real
person or like it was you know, wiped in some way.
(41:58):
That's always a red flag. And you know mystery type
shows or procedural cop dramas when they look up a
person of interest and there's nothing about them, super sketchy yea.
And none of the agencies that exist have acknowledged any
sort of interaction with LASH or any work that last
I've ever done for any of them, So that's kind
(42:19):
of a dead end unless again they're keeping it under
wraps for one reason, or another which is possible. Which
is possible, but you would think that that if that
were the case, this wouldn't be in the news as
much as it was in Also side tip, if you
want to get off the grid, you don't want people
to know where you're going for a certain period of
time or any amount of time. Um one one good
(42:42):
thing to do is to have a friend take your
main phone and just drive it around with them wherever
they go or gone for the weekend of the week
or whatever. I can't officially tell you that it works.
Just plug it, have them plug it in in their car,
by the way, that's how you do it, like charger
in the car, leave it charged at all times in
their car to create the illusion of your normal goings
(43:04):
on and movements that you haven't left and you know
that you're like just still doing your thing. Again. We
can't officially tell you that it works, and it's crazy
how easily you can do it and make sure location
services are on and u significant places are turned onto anyway, theoretically, hypothetically,
So what was lash up to? Where did the money
(43:26):
come from? Was it all from his victims? In victims
they were was he a cod man? Was he aspiring
cult leader? Was he an alien? For now that appears
set to remain the stuff Jeffrey Allen Lash doesn't want
you to know. Real people's lives were affected and damaged
by his actions. But as as we've established, we we
(43:50):
don't have enough info to say whether he truly believed
what he was doing. But those questions remain unanswered. How
where did them may come from? What changed about his life?
This is a fascinating case, and we want to hear
what you think. Folks. Definitely also record conversations with yourself
and your friend and then have your friend to play
(44:11):
them back on the radio while you're driving around with
your phone plugged in. Oh sorry, anyway, Uh, perfect is
the enemy of good. Matt Perfect is the enemy of good. Okay,
all right, So you can reach us all over social media.
We are conspiracy Stuff on Twitter and Facebook. We are
Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. You can find our Facebook page.
(44:34):
Here's where it gets Crazy. That's our group where you
and all other conspiracy realists can hang out chat about
this episode, any other episode, any topic you want to.
If you want to join, all you have to do
is name one of us who is talking to you
during this episode or seth Shadow Johnson or any of
our other superproducers. Just name one of us or make
(44:56):
us laugh and you can get in. That's right. Also,
while you're at it, one up over to Apple Podcasts
and leave us a five star review. Five star review
would mean the world to us, and also helps people
discover the show and helps it inch up in those
Apple podcast rankings, which I believe we are sitting in
a nice solid one six or so out of like
all podcasts, which I think is pretty cool. Uh. And
(45:19):
and thank you, uh conspiracy realists for helping make that happen.
And if you're someone who feels the way about social
media that Jeffrey Allen Lash felt about photography, never fear.
You can contact us the way he used to contact
his lawyers. Just dial us on the phone. It doesn't
have to be once a day. You can call. It
doesn't have to be from a pay phone though that's
(45:40):
a that's required. Yeah, or a burner also accepted burner
So that number is one eight three three st d
w y t K three minutes. Those three minutes are yours.
Give yourself a cool nickname. Let us know if it's
okay to use your name and voice on air and
tell us what's on your mind. Hip us to some
topics you think your fellow conspiracy realists would enjoy. If
(46:03):
you say Ben, that's malarkey. Joe Biden doesn't own that word.
We can all use it if you. If you say Ben,
that's crazy. You yourself had talked at length about how
much you hate phones. Why would you try to convince
me to tell it's called you on a phone? Why
would you do this to either of us? That's a
great question. Not everybody loves phones. But there is one
(46:27):
way that you can always contact us, regardless of how
you feel about social media, how you feel about Jeffrey
Allen Lash, how you feel about phone calls. That's our
good old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at
i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you
(46:59):
to and O is a production of I heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt, my name is no. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
set the Shadow, Nicholas Johnson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. We're doing a relatively rare two
part episode on a story that has fascinated all of
(00:48):
us and hopefully you as well. It is the strange
story of one Jeffrey Allen lash. Please do listen to
part one. We've got a lot of We were able
to do a pretty good job, fellas, mixing in some
crazy and some facts. Uh, but there's enough crazy to
go around to be to be just brutally honest with you,
(01:12):
this story, this part two is going to make a
lot more sense if you checked out part one first.
So we're gonna wait and done through the magic of podcasting,
should we should We touch on a couple of the
important characters, just so everybody is like up to speed. Yes,
(01:33):
here are the facts. Jeffrey Allen Lash dies Uh. He
is sixty years old. His body is found in an
abandoned suv in his own neighborhood, which is a very
posh neighbor, very posh community in Los Angeles, and investigators
discover a web of weird events very shortly afterwards. Two
(01:56):
of the big players we've met are Katherine nebron Goren
and also her husband for a time, Dr Gore, And
we've alluded to a couple of other folks that we're
going to meet as well. Yeah, I just want to
touch on Harlan Braun as well. Be r a u
n that is the attorney representing Catherine lebron Gorn. Gotta
(02:18):
ask real quick up front, like what how how did
this gentleman come to live and cohabitate in the situation
with Catherine and her then husband and then managed to
kind of push them apart and sort of take over
the roost as it were. Yeah, yeah, pull a cuckoo
right uh and shout out you know. Unrelated, there's a
fantastic kind of underrated sci fi film called Vivarium, which
(02:43):
I have heard nothing but great things about it, and
I have not seen it. It's so good, you guys.
It's underrated for sure. So how did he how did
he become, you know, a social cuckoo? Uh he would
have an answer for that, Nolan. His answer would be
national security of course, verbatim quote from him. Uh so,
(03:04):
so he knows, he knows the old conversational tricks. At least.
That's that's our recap. Where we left off last, we
were asking ourselves where was the money coming from? How
come his stepmother Shirley Anderson, as well as his late
father did not know the source of his income. How
come nobody seemed to know what he was really up to?
(03:27):
And was there any truth to the bizarre cryptic little
hints he was dropping. I picked him dropping these kind
of out of the blue where they're not really necessary
and conversation like he's he's at that Italian restaurant they
always go to because there were regulars there. They drove
separate cars on license plates and they paid cash for everything.
(03:48):
I wonder if like there's a server who is a
familiar face to him and they say, okay, you know, um,
we are specials today, and he's like, I don't need
the specials. That's not on the CIA, does it like
what we we know that that's just older food that
wasn't sold last week, So we don't want your specials
(04:11):
the CIA that's signed with the CIA. Yeah, I think
that's official policy. But there's a recap. So without further ado,
let's dive right back in. Here's where it gets crazy.
He does have a little bit of a paper trail.
He does have a past because he's done. Um, he's
had some brushes with the law. And he literally told
(04:31):
his attorney that we're gonna tell you this. He literally
told his attorney, Yeah, sorry, I got weird. We're gonna
do this a little different way. That's literally what this
story is. I am become weird and will operate thus Lee.
Uh yeah. This attorney represented him in two thousand nine. Uh.
He called him out on said weirdness. He described his
(04:55):
client's behavior as very strange. Uh. Lash was charged with
misdemeanor posession of a concealed weapon after being stopped by
Culver City police, presumably for not having a license plate.
But we don't know this for a fact. I'm sure
we could find out, but still I'm surprised he dedodged
that for so long. Um and that's according to court documents. UM,
(05:16):
Lash had the ammunition and the firearm in his vehicle.
But because Lash had the ammo and weapons stored correctly
in his vehicle, UM, the charge was dropped. Yeah, but
that's not the weird stuff, guys. The weird stuff is that,
according to the attorney, Lash, after I guess contacting the
(05:38):
law offices, said oh, no, no, no, I'll contact you. Yeah,
you don't need any of my information, like, none of it.
Don't worry. You've got the documents of court documents. Uh,
you don't have to contact me at all. I'm not
going to give you any information. What I'm gonna do
is call you once a day and you're gonna tell
me what's going on with my case. That's it. Because
(06:00):
I'm c I A because I am deeply weird. Once
a day seems a bit much. But the guy was
nothing if not tenacious, right, just to be candid. It's
it's also a clear move or a first move for
manipulative personality right to a point oneself. Like there's a
(06:21):
lot of conflation of client versus authority. Right. These people
are domineering. They want to be the one who knows
the most or appears to they want to be the
one who has the most mystery and they want to
be the one who controls situations. That's a very lazy
psychological sketch up my part, having never met Lash. But
(06:43):
you're you're right. He says, look, I'm just gonna call you.
I've become strange. And they say, okay, well you know
you're paying me in cash, dope. And then there's a
third lawyer who enters the free here enters the conversation.
His name is Robert Renzer. He told the local outfit
kat l A that he had represented Lash for decades,
(07:07):
for almost twenty years, and it was usually in relation
to this guy's guns. And he said, look, he's just
a guy's really private, which I respect, and he's just
really into guns. And he added some interesting stuff here.
He said, you know, as far as I know, Jeffrey
really isn't out here firing guns. May have called him
(07:28):
Jerry AND's interviews. He says he's not really out here
using a bunch of these. In fact, he prides himself
on how well maintained his firearms are. So I would
I would say, as Renser, consider more of a collector.
And then We've got a quote where he does say okay.
A lot of people would call him odd because of
(07:49):
his overwhelming desire for privacy. Some people considered him a
little weird. Yeah. For me, it's like you could tell
he's speaking on someone who's past, but he is speaking
about it's still his client, you know, in his mind.
So he doesn't want to just come out and say
I think it was crazy. He flew over the Cuckoo's
(08:12):
last long ago. Well, I think about how you, whoever
you are, imagine keeping plus guns in very good order,
well maintained. That's um imagine that. Do you guys realize
how difficult it is, especially if they're ever fired, to
(08:34):
keep a gun really well maintained. It is not an
easy it's not an easy thing. It takes work. And
now you've got twelve hundred of them in your townhouse,
and where do you put them to keep them really
well maintained? Oh man, it's just there's so many questions.
(08:55):
It's you know, it's it's funny because I think for
a lot of people who are verse of firearms, it's
it's something you may not always think about, but you
gotta break the machine down and you got to clean it.
It's there. There are rules for good firearm maintenance that
a lot of people just don't do, you know what
I mean. They might they might buy a gun and
(09:16):
they never familiarize themselves with it. They just hide it somewhere.
Um and that could that can be dangerous, be very dangerous,
very quickly. But I always like to think of cars.
If you are if you ever read the manual for
a car, it's there's stuff that no one ever does.
Like you're supposed to walk and have a four point
safety check before you get into your car. That's the
(09:39):
last time you did that. What's the last time you
were like, Hey, hold on, I need to I need
to make sure the headlights are working and the tail
lights are good. I'm driving with a doughnut on my
back tire for about a month now on the highway.
I mean, look, it's I'm gonna get it taken care of. Okay.
It's just such a hass is the hazard of being
(10:00):
an adult. You have to do things that aren't fun
and spend money and wasted don't feel like achievements. Well
here's the thing, guys, I just had another tire pop.
So this is my second one. Is Atlanta, Atlanta the
roads or garbage? Okay, done with my my road conditions, Ran,
I would just say I think that I think that
(10:21):
maintenance thing, the four point check is a generational thing.
My grandfather close to every time I got into a
car with him when he was still alive, he would
check the oil. He would walk around the vehicle like
he would He would do that, especially if we were
going further than just up the street. And here's another one.
UH did an episode this years ago, the old question
(10:45):
of like when should you change your oil? Right? Is
it every X amount of miles? Is every x amount
of months? Theoretically you know what's best for your car
is if you change the oil every time you drive.
I'm just saying they're maintenance standards for any machine that
a lot of people do not care about. And when
it came to firearms, Lash was someone who did care
(11:07):
about this stuff. Thank you for bringing us back. We
brought it back. I know it was. That was a
parkour on our part, not really. It was fun. And
you made a great point about how crappy the roads
are here in Atlanta. They literally pay a guy to
just go put metal plates out, which is like in
and of itself almost more dangerous than the freaking pottle. Yeah,
(11:29):
did I ever tell you guys about the the hubcap
anomaly that was up the street from my place. I
was trying to figure out for the longest time. I
thought it was a weird performance art thing because there
was this like growing pyramid of hub caps on the
corner of the street next to me, or very close
to it. I was walking somewhere one day and then
(11:51):
I finally found the mystery. There was a small but
deep hole in the road and like a weird curved
thing or something. But I was walking by and a
hub cap flew off like a little you know, these
are newer cars. There's a little plastic e hub caps, right,
so so their frisbees almost this thing kind of like
(12:13):
what the bump, and it fell near this pyramid of
hub caps. So I think somebody was just happening along
and kind of gathering them up. But I should have
taken a picture. It was epic. They actually fixed the road, well,
they put a metal plate on there. I think they'll
get to fixing it later. This has nothing to do
with Jeffrey lash. I'm gonna put my money that they
(12:34):
all rolled, they all hit that one whatever that one
thing was, and they all rolled to that one place,
just because that's the nature of them. That would be
beautiful if if, if hub caps, like the majority of
people seek the company of their own, you know, the
inspiring it's a very Pixar hub cap we've just created. Hey, hey, guys,
guess what transition? Hey, what's this student spy? He sure
(12:59):
wanted people who think so. But what if you were
more than a spy? That more than a spy? What
does that even mean? More than meets the eye? What
if he were an alien? So remember how he said,
you're going to Transformer Dan, if you were a Transformer Matt,
(13:20):
I was thinking about this. You're you're Optimist prime extremism
is uh, something I can't forget now ever since our
conversation Optimist Prime extremism, No, I've already forgotten it. So
you look at it, You're like, I look at we're
talking about trucks faces, vehicles with faces. He said, No,
(13:42):
when I look at a truck, I wonder if it's
Optimist Prime or something like that. But anyway, this show
was sponsored by Transformers. I think I got is that
really really really cool? Really quickly. I don't see the
benefit of being able to turn into a truck. I
just don't see the tactical benefits. Being a row Bots
seems way cooler and more versatile. Turning into a truck
(14:03):
seems like a downgrade. Well, they had to do that
because otherwise the humans would find out this y, which
is that they live among us, and they all had
to have dealer plates. That was one of the tricks
of the Transformers there it is. So we don't know
if Transformers are a sponsor of today's podcast, but let's
pause and find out together. Nope. Well, the reason I
(14:35):
think we're laughing here is because how stupidly hilarious would
it be if there was like a Transformers movie that
we didn't know about, and that was just the ad
in somebody is going to listen to this episode and
there will be some kind of Transformers integration, and I'm
so excited for you. I'm glad you heard that. Yeah,
(14:56):
that one was for you specifically. So we left on
a bit of a cliffhanger, right, an alien? What are
you talking about? Remember how we said that Catherine never
on Goren left. She's skeedattled to Oregon to ditch the
heat after lashes death, and this was per his instructions,
as she has claimed, and we said she took an
(15:18):
employee along with her. This is one Dawn vad Bunker
Don Don Marie mat Bunker. I believe she briefly went
missing in Oregon after lashes death, And a lot of
what we know about Don's position comes from her mother,
Laura vad Bunker, who was very worried about her daughter.
(15:40):
In a brief bit of good news, Dawn vad Bunker
turned out to be fine. She was just off the
grid for a little while. Yeah. And both of these women,
at least it seems, according to statements, fully believed Jeffrey
Allen Lashes stories about being a spy are working for
a government agency of some sort and needing to protect
his privacy in some way. But that's not all they
(16:02):
believed about him. According to their stories, they believed he
was a human alien hybrid. Cool, what does that even
cons So that's sort of like a human alien hybrid.
Does that mean like the spawn of an alien and
the humans relations some sort of genetically engineered lab grown creature,
(16:26):
a combination of DNA right of of some sort part
of it was human part was not. And this is
all coming from Laura ad Bunker, the mother of Dawn,
the the young younger woman who was there uh in Oregon.
She she said that this was a genuine belief that
was held by her daughter. And apparently, according to the
(16:51):
stories that they were told that they believed, uh, Jeffrey
Allen lash was sent to the earth to protect it,
to protect humanity essentially, Yeah, in some nebulous way that
he could not explicitly detail, right, which is a key
part of these sorts of trying to be diplomatic explanations.
(17:13):
I'm getting flashbacks of the story that just broke the
week that we're recording this about all mother mm hmm,
about mother love. Yeah, we uh, I guess we should
address that we when so, we record those strange news
segments about a week before they air. Un that's just
(17:35):
the system that Noel Matt's and our our our team
has worked out. So when we recorded this, UM, we
did predict that it was an unsustainable situation. We knew
something would probably happen, something does often with these organizations,
but we did not know it would happen so soon. Um,
(17:58):
and you know, ohther or not you agree with somebody's
spiritual beliefs. The truth is no one knows the answer
or no one that knows. No one has been able
to convince the rest of the world they know the answer.
So you have to think of everyone as human beings
and an exercise empathy. So our thoughts are with these
(18:18):
people during this incredibly difficult time as well as the survivors.
What are we talking about. Well, just a few days
after we mentioned the existence of the Love has One cult,
news emerged that their leader, Matt, referring to as all
Mother Mother Love Amy Carlson, had passed away and been mummified. So, yes,
(18:43):
so would be very careful. I believe what you would like,
but never hesitate to reach out if you if you
feel like you are one of your family members is
being held by one of those organizations against your will.
As a very weird time to put in that p
s A. But I think, well, it's not that we
because yeah, I don't know, some of the women involved
(19:04):
in Jeffrey Allen Lash's life were doing things that may
seem bizarre to some of us. Yeah, yeah, because you know,
it's kind of like I never thought I'd say it
this way, this is not a ding on scientology. This
is not a ding on scientology. Just repeating that for
the lawyers, for our legal team. When you hear people
(19:28):
say stuff that sounds really outlandish and you know that
they are reasonable, intelligent people, it's easy to dismiss them
because they're dismissed those beliefs because we don't know how
they arrived at that. It's always an incremental, uh, sort
of education, right, Indoctrination is a better word. So if
you hear somebody say, here are the like when we
(19:49):
learned the inner workings of Scientology and the inner belief
system of that organization thanks to wiki leaks, we thought
it was crazy, right, We thought this was very outlandish.
But we also could tell that people don't learn this
all at once. They learn it in a way that
leverages what's called the sunk cost fallacy. So at the
(20:12):
time you start hearing this other stuff, you've already been
primed for it. When she talked about earlier, and everything
seems just like a little step further. It's never a
bridge too far, and that's how you end up like
Don vad Bunker who said, yess he sent to Earth
to protect us. He's part human. He's part alien. He
(20:34):
is also working for the government. Uh and yeah, I
was originally hired by Katherine Nebron too manage some of
the properties she owned in the area. But then I
finally met Lash. She didn't meet either Katherine or Jeffrey
for a long time, she was working remotely. But when
she did, she was taken in by a story. She
(20:56):
started following a diet. We mentioned specific diets earlier, and
while you were talking about your piano teacher in part one,
Dawn gives up smoking and she starts doing the Lash diet,
heavy on raw meat. Weird raw meat too, like raw bison.
Her mom is saying she's drinking all these gross juices.
(21:17):
She told her mother that she was doing this because
Lash was helping her turn into an alien hybrid herself. That's, yes,
an interesting notion of using your diet with very earthly
foods to turn into, you know, an extraterrestrial hybrid. Then
(21:37):
again sounds outlandish, but we have to realize, you know,
this is an intelligent person. There is a context. There's
like a a chain of indoctrination that led her to that.
And that's not all she said. She she gave us
a little more information about what lashes top secret projects
were at the moment. Yeah. She said that Lash was
(21:58):
assisting the government with these operations on the computer all
night like that. He would just stay up and do
whatever he was doing on his machine. Then he would
travel to different solar systems and planets through the mechanisms
of the computer, through the chips whatever is on there,
through the networks. He would somehow astrally or otherwise travel
(22:24):
throughout the galaxy. Well, I mean, good gig, if you
can get it right. Presumably one of his twelve cars,
you know, had some sort of interdimensional travel mods. I
love it. I would like to think that I would
very much. That was fifteen. It's probably a Saturn. It
(22:45):
was so all right. Going back to these attorneys, right,
the attorneys are very much like they definitely have a
horse in the race. They have an angle. They're representing clients,
but they're also trying to stick to the letter of
the law and the things that they can prove that
they can confirm. That's why it's interesting that several of
the attorneys connected to Jeffrey Allen Lash found the idea
(23:08):
of him being a spy laughable. Ha ha ha. L
m a O, they would say. But there's an interesting
problem there. None of the attorneys related to Lash in
any way have been able to confirm that they actually
knew what it was he did for a living. But
as we said, Harland Braun did not believe that Lash
(23:28):
was selling guns or drugs, but he was also baffled.
He noted that Lash quote could have been working for anyone.
It's hard to imagine, however, that it's a total figment
of his imagination because there's so much money involved. There's
almost five million dollars worth of guns that were taken
by the police. And then this led him to conclude
(23:50):
something that I'm sure has been on all of our
minds through Part one and up to now, led him
to conclude the following. The real problem is if he
was working for a government, an agency, or foreign they
would never corroborate who American or foreign agency, they wouldn't
corroborate it. That makes a lot of sense, right, if
(24:12):
he's so deep undercover for another government or another spy
agency that's outside of the US, why would anybody admit
that that's what he was doing, especially if he was
providing them with, you know, like high level intelligence somehow.
I don't know if he was an American agent. I
(24:33):
don't know, dude. I'm really wondering, like how often agents
are like deceased agents are mentioned or even if they're undercover.
I guess if they're ever mentioned by you know, or
acknowledged by an agency. Well, it depends, you know. Because
we talked about s O V and Vietnam, they had
explicit an explicit understanding that if things went sideways, they
(24:58):
didn't exist, you know. But that's that's a foreign agent
in Vietnam. This would be a US agent in the US,
operating domestically, except when he's in space um and running
what he claimed was a really big company. Towards towards
the end leading into the events of the of July,
(25:20):
will find that he was talking to another woman and
he was a little bit more oddly enough, a little
bit more specific, like his story was the same, but
he was clearly evolving it as we moved from victim
to victim, which is what I think is happening. Just
as a spoiler, Uh, that leads us to something else.
You know, there is money, The money is real. Somebody
(25:41):
about the guns. They didn't get paid in like space stories.
So what if the cash came from a more mundane source.
There maybe another conspiracy of foot. There are indications that
Lash was if nothing else seth Can we get some
can we get some smooth music, a little bit of
(26:01):
a Litharia the ladies man and hold that, hold that
sexy music for a quick word from our sponsor, and
then we'll be back with all the juicy details. Let
me get some of this Cavasier reference. You've been listening
(26:24):
to the quiet story kidding, this is still stuff they
don't want you to know. We are back from the break.
What are we talking about with Lash? Well, he had
no shortage of lovers Paramore's girlfriends uh. And this leads
some people, including your faithful correspondent, honestly, to speculate that
he was little more than a con artist. He told
(26:45):
one of his lovers, Michelle Leon's, that he had been
in a relationship with since before. He's hanging out with Katherine.
He told her that he was a former government agent,
top secret security clearance, and he said, you know, I've
got had a rap sheet pretty much over my time.
I've performed counter terrorism operations, I've rescued hostages, I've done
(27:07):
anti harassment missions and yeah, you know, I rescued a
couple of people from cults. What of it. Now I'm
on a mission to save the world because I'm an
alien human hybrid, an alien humanoid hybrid, superspace secret spot,
and I have become strange I and I have become
I am become strange. Yeah, I would say all of
(27:28):
these things add up to definitely becoming strange. I wonder
if it's one of those things where it's like, you know,
science science fiction, of course, is where my brain goes
with this kind of stuff. But like the idea of
maybe slowly metamorphosing that's not a word, morphing into an
alien human hybrid, Like maybe he started off purely human
and then through some sort of event, you know, like
(27:49):
a Hulk type event, perhaps he was um perhaps bombarded
with some kind of you know, alien raise, and then
he received he kind of like got that DNA that's
sort of like you know, grafted onto his DNA. Oh,
I got you, I got you. Okay, so uh, some
early secret version of Crisper was used to take thank you,
(28:12):
thank you for putting science words to my absolutely outlandish
fictional proposition. It's perfect. I think we've got I think
we're onto something between this and the Elevator. We are
killing it on spec scripts and synopsis. What helevator? Yeah,
because the devil like goes down to Earth. I mean later,
(28:33):
there's anology. I've been working on the bible for the show,
and look, I get it. The game show network gets it.
Were on the same page. There's a tie in. Yes,
but I feel like I didn't read the email. So
we're kidding, We're we're We're at least kidding. Lash had
(28:54):
more than a few eccentricities, and this was very clear
to Michelle. He seemed to be a neat freak. He
definitely didn't want her to touch his stuff. As he
said earlier, he had a hard ban on people taking
his photograph. Leland's knew Michelle knew that he had credit cards,
(29:16):
but he always paid in cash. And in she buys
a three bedroom condo in Santa Monica. Lash enters the place.
He starts living there. He takes over one bedroom entirely.
He locks it and just like that, Remember that old
pirate myth was a blue Beard. I think he forbids
(29:37):
her from ever entering. He's got a lock in key system.
He's like, hey, we're cool as long as this room
just doesn't exist. Wow, And I never want to see
you in there. We're never going to talk about it.
And maybe she said what if I ask about it?
And then he probably had like one of those Dennis
Reynold smiles and he's like, I don't ask about it, Jesus.
(30:01):
I wonder if I wonder if he had, like, you know,
in eight seven, he probably had a hundred guns, you know,
like in one bedroom. You could probably put a hundred
guns in a bedroom. Yeah, do you need a gun rack?
You know, you just kind of like stand him up
in a corner, right one goes in and then you
(30:22):
just start pyramiding them out like hubcaps. Back up, guys.
I just I just hope that this terrible fan doesn't
go awry, that there's oh bad. Yeah, yeah, you could
do it. But to the point and she she has
no idea, she doesn't know what's in there. And there's
this excellent article by the Hollywood Reporter that we may
(30:43):
have mentioned in in Part one. Some of the best
reporting on this was Hollywood Reporter and Playboy, and according
to this story by Scott Johnson, which we highly recommend,
reading we now we know that Lash was telling multiple
versions of a story to multiple women, right, and there's
(31:07):
a bizarre rundown of the stuff he would tell Michelle
Leon's and tell his other girlfriends. He would say, he's
a member of anti terror team that he refers to
as his upper staff. So he had his own a
team basically, and Uh, they were brave and lethal and
most importantly, they were super loyal to Lash. If anyone
(31:29):
stood in his way, contradicted him, harmed him, his team
would come after them and kill them. This is like
a this is him trying to be kind of you know,
edge lord e. Right, if it's not true, I guess
we have to say, if it's not true, it's him
being edge lordy and manipulative. But it's also threatening because
he had a temper problem and he was physically abusive
(31:51):
to some of these women. Man Lions. Uh never came
into contact with any of these A team members. She
didn't speak with any of them on the phone. But again,
like it's that threat. I guess it occurred so often
in their relationship, this threat of these other people, that
it just made it feel very very real to Leon's
(32:14):
m hmm, Yeah, And you know, when you're acting with
limited information, you don't know like how how can you
find this out? You know, the internet at this point, right,
you have to do your best in person to suss
out what's happening. And again it's the incremental indoctrination that
is key here. He also says He also says that
(32:38):
he knows the psychic. Her name is Tara, and he
can't talk. He can't say much about her because he
had to teach her to go dark and live off
the grid for national security reasons. Yeah, this guy seems
to complicate the lives of everyone he encounters. Oh, dude,
you have no idea, because here's the thing. He's living
(33:00):
with lions in this condo she bought. He's got the
room that doth not exist, with all his guns and
I think probably all his guns station. And he has
somehow gotten leone's to pay for everything, right, like everything,
not just the condo and rent the food, the supplies
(33:22):
whatever those maybe for any interact or you know, for
going out to the park. She's getting whatever they need
for the picnic um entertainment, everything. I mean, this seems
like a grift of his though, right, Like I've imagined
it maybe even happen more time than we have on record,
because he literally, like I asked at the top of
the show, like, how the hell is this even possible?
(33:43):
But Lash continued to be supported for a time by Lions,
even after moving out and into this other condo with
Nebron Goren with her husband at the time, and then
somehow strong arming him out of the picture. Uh, seems
like a real you know, manipulative con artists. He can't
(34:05):
he can't use any of his own money. He would
get exposed. Mission. Yeah, they can track serial numbers on
this cash. We can use the cash sometimes, but only
only when we absolutely have to. So what do you
mean is he totally insane? I mean there's obviously real
information and real stuff to back up that something weird
(34:25):
is going on with this guy, But he sure seems
to have delusions of grandeur and obviously is is a
total grifter Uh and manipulator. I just it's it's mind boggling. Yes, yeah,
he was a taker, is you know? He was reciprocating
by spinning tales and helping making people think they were
part of something bigger, which is a brilliant way to
(34:47):
get people to be your thralls. So things aren't going
well at the abroad household. Uh. He is worried about
what might happen to his guns now that he's taken
over their house. He's put them in a really weird situation.
These people who own this house, by the way, are
having to go shower at their neighbor's place because he's
stuffed it with so much junk and restricted the areas
(35:10):
of their own house where they can actually live. He
because of the guns, he shut down the water in
their condo. That's that's the reason they had to go. Uh,
they had to go shower other places. He also needed
a special chef for his diet. The chef costs about
seventeen hundred and eighty five dollars a week. He did
(35:30):
not pay for that. Uh. She uh LANs also bought
uh two healing frequency machines that's twelve grand apiece. Uh,
then another undred dollars a year and storage fees for
like more than a decade. She estimates that she's shelled
out about one point eight million dollars. So this is
(35:53):
another pretty well to do woman that is being manipulated
by this guy. He becomes more and more extre dream
he's physically abusive. Gore and you know, we said they
divorced earlier was convinced that Lash was the real deal. However,
he said in he said Lash put a gun against
his head and demanded that Goren continued to give him
(36:16):
the cash he needed to carry out his missions and
says that he gave this guy something around two point
five million dollars. But yep, and then after they divorced,
Nebron took up with Lash, eventually becoming his fiancee without
the knowledge of Michelle Leon's who thought they were still dating.
(36:36):
So full circle back Uru Burros this depart one. Michelle
has finally had enough. She's been trying. She's very close
friends with Catherine, by the way, and she's been trying
to call her to see what's up with her boyfriend.
No one's picking up the phone. This radio silence is distressing. Eventually,
in a moment of desperation, she decides she's going to
(36:58):
break into that locked room and it's not what she expected.
That's right. It was essentially like an episode of that
super depressing reality show Hoarders. Um Lions began to sift
through just absolute piles of stuff um looking for some
(37:19):
clue as to what this dude was all about. But
she found evidence not of any kind of you know,
government work, um, but of other women, at least six
other women in addition to her and Nebron. So we're
(37:40):
talking things like love letters, photographs, an audio cassette that
one of his former lovers had made fromm assuming like
a mixtape. Um, and uh, five or six women whose
names Lions found in this stash, we're still alive. So
she began to contact them, um, and eventually reached out
to four. So these were not the only examples of
(38:03):
this grift that Lash pulled, um, because all of these
stories were identical to her own. Lash had swooped in
and completely hijacked their relationship using a variety of psychological
manipulation tactics. Um. He you know, got them to pay
for everything, cheated them out of their money, you know,
(38:25):
completely took advantage of their good will. Ben you mentioned
at the top of the show or one of the episodes,
how someone like Nebron Jameson Nebron Goren um could have
been a very easy mark for many reasons. And it
appears that he knew exactly the criteria what he was
looking for in such a mark, right, which does importantly
(38:46):
does not mean that he did not believe his own story.
He could have been having what we'll call a Merlin moment. Uh.
And he and the lash Dash was real. He did
have over to under grand in his house, so he
may have been a bit of a Romora, you know,
just attaching himself to the lives of these people and
(39:06):
intimidating them. Some of these women told Michelle they had
a very real fear that if they did not comply,
he would kill them or have them killed. How did
this all shake out, Well, we'll tell you. A legal
battle between Lashes, lovers and relatives ensued over the seized goods.
After his death, he left no will, that's a paper trail, right,
(39:28):
So his his only relatives were these estranged cousins. They
were set to inherit his fortune, which was you know,
they were mainly thinking in terms of the guns. They
were like, that's five million just for the guns. According
to their lawyer, the cousins planned to have the weapons
destroyed to send a message about guns in the US
(39:49):
instead of being sold. Uh and again, all the guns
are clean. Yeah, they wanted to um because they were
worried about that many that they were worried about those
guns getting out on the street. And you have the
wrong hands, got it? What are they doing? You start
a museum on the side of four hundred and it's
(40:11):
bigot and guns. God, I'm in, I am in. I
will take the elevator to big Foot and guns. Uh yeah,
I'm on board. So this this is a problem because
several of the women involved with Lash have their own
lawsuits Lebron and Lions and specific they're seeking compensation for
(40:32):
the millions of dollars they have spent supporting this guy
over the years. The corner eventually concludes the Lash died
at age sixty of natural causes due to a cardiovascular condition.
But the problem is his corpse was so decomposed by
two weeks of summer heat that it was tough to
conclude what was happening to him in his final years. Yes,
(40:56):
in certain cases, some diseases like cants or maybe a
l S can cause you to have psychotic breaks and hallucinations.
But the thing is, his story went on so long
and was seemingly so well thought out and calculated that
you can't really explain it right just by saying, Uh,
(41:16):
he had a medical condition that was messing with his cognition.
To your earlier pointment about having a criminal record, he
had none. He was squeaky clean. That in itself can
be suspicious because if you want good cover, then you
want to have some wartz, right, You want to have
some wrinkles. That makes it look more realistic, which is
(41:37):
why when you do a c g I image of
a person, you want to have a slight asymmetry, right,
because they look more like a person, It's true. Otherwise
you get that uncanny Valley effect, which I think you
could apply that same terms to, like a weirdly squeaky
clean record, Uh starts to feel like not a real
person or like it was you know, wiped in some way.
(41:58):
That's always a red flag. And you know mystery type
shows or procedural cop dramas when they look up a
person of interest and there's nothing about them, super sketchy yea.
And none of the agencies that exist have acknowledged any
sort of interaction with LASH or any work that last
I've ever done for any of them, So that's kind
(42:19):
of a dead end unless again they're keeping it under
wraps for one reason, or another which is possible. Which
is possible, but you would think that that if that
were the case, this wouldn't be in the news as
much as it was in Also side tip, if you
want to get off the grid, you don't want people
to know where you're going for a certain period of
time or any amount of time. Um one one good
(42:42):
thing to do is to have a friend take your
main phone and just drive it around with them wherever
they go or gone for the weekend of the week
or whatever. I can't officially tell you that it works.
Just plug it, have them plug it in in their car,
by the way, that's how you do it, like charger
in the car, leave it charged at all times in
their car to create the illusion of your normal goings
(43:04):
on and movements that you haven't left and you know
that you're like just still doing your thing. Again. We
can't officially tell you that it works, and it's crazy
how easily you can do it and make sure location
services are on and u significant places are turned onto anyway, theoretically, hypothetically,
So what was lash up to? Where did the money
(43:26):
come from? Was it all from his victims? In victims
they were was he a cod man? Was he aspiring
cult leader? Was he an alien? For now that appears
set to remain the stuff Jeffrey Allen Lash doesn't want
you to know. Real people's lives were affected and damaged
by his actions. But as as we've established, we we
(43:50):
don't have enough info to say whether he truly believed
what he was doing. But those questions remain unanswered. How
where did them may come from? What changed about his life?
This is a fascinating case, and we want to hear
what you think. Folks. Definitely also record conversations with yourself
and your friend and then have your friend to play
(44:11):
them back on the radio while you're driving around with
your phone plugged in. Oh sorry, anyway, Uh, perfect is
the enemy of good. Matt Perfect is the enemy of good. Okay,
all right, So you can reach us all over social media.
We are conspiracy Stuff on Twitter and Facebook. We are
Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. You can find our Facebook page.
(44:34):
Here's where it gets Crazy. That's our group where you
and all other conspiracy realists can hang out chat about
this episode, any other episode, any topic you want to.
If you want to join, all you have to do
is name one of us who is talking to you
during this episode or seth Shadow Johnson or any of
our other superproducers. Just name one of us or make
(44:56):
us laugh and you can get in. That's right. Also,
while you're at it, one up over to Apple Podcasts
and leave us a five star review. Five star review
would mean the world to us, and also helps people
discover the show and helps it inch up in those
Apple podcast rankings, which I believe we are sitting in
a nice solid one six or so out of like
all podcasts, which I think is pretty cool. Uh. And
(45:19):
and thank you, uh conspiracy realists for helping make that happen.
And if you're someone who feels the way about social
media that Jeffrey Allen Lash felt about photography, never fear.
You can contact us the way he used to contact
his lawyers. Just dial us on the phone. It doesn't
have to be once a day. You can call. It
doesn't have to be from a pay phone though that's
(45:40):
a that's required. Yeah, or a burner also accepted burner
So that number is one eight three three st d
w y t K three minutes. Those three minutes are yours.
Give yourself a cool nickname. Let us know if it's
okay to use your name and voice on air and
tell us what's on your mind. Hip us to some
topics you think your fellow conspiracy realists would enjoy. If
(46:03):
you say Ben, that's malarkey. Joe Biden doesn't own that word.
We can all use it if you. If you say Ben,
that's crazy. You yourself had talked at length about how
much you hate phones. Why would you try to convince
me to tell it's called you on a phone? Why
would you do this to either of us? That's a
great question. Not everybody loves phones. But there is one
(46:27):
way that you can always contact us, regardless of how
you feel about social media, how you feel about Jeffrey
Allen Lash, how you feel about phone calls. That's our
good old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at
i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you
(46:59):
to and O is a production of I heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Show Links
RSSStoreAboutLive ShowsPopular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.